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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:09 | melia left #koha | |
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| 02:34 | kmkale | Namaskaar #koha |
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| 05:36 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:57 | cait | hi #koha |
| 08:15 | mbalmer joined #koha | |
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| 09:34 | mbalmer | 50% of sources checked, 16 mysqlisms so far... |
| 09:50 | it would already help if proper standard sql was being used instead of mysql idioms. | |
| 09:54 | cait | I think that is a good goal |
| 09:58 | mbalmer | step: change SQL so that it can run on both mysql and pgsql |
| 09:58 | wahanui | mbalmer: that doesn't look right |
| 09:59 | mbalmer | wahanui, I am now up to 30 such spots... |
| 09:59 | wahanui | ...but mbalmer is currently going each and every file to find MySQLisms, then I can think about how to make it Pg/MySQL "compliant"... |
| 10:03 | mbalmer | yes. |
| 10:04 | cait | hm |
| 10:04 | i hope someone has told you that wahanui is our bot | |
| 10:04 | :) | |
| 10:05 | hm if you are checking all sql currently... you could perhaps also check that placeholders are properly used everywhere? | |
| 10:07 | mbalmer | I will go trhough the SQL at least two times. First to make it compatible, second to make it right where it's not |
| 10:07 | cait | right? |
| 10:07 | mbalmer | no, I did not know wahanui was a bot, but at least he is friendly ;) |
| 10:07 | cait | most of the time |
| 10:08 | mbalmer | as for right: I found a few places where sth could be achieved with a more elegant sql statement |
| 10:08 | but it's a large codebase, it takes time to go through it. | |
| 10:16 | cait | yeah, it has grown a lot over the years |
| 10:19 | mbalmer | quite some of the mysqlisms can be rewritten using standard SQL, so that's low hanging fruit |
| 10:21 | I need to setup a wiki page with info on that. | |
| 10:24 | cait | I think that would be good |
| 10:25 | also help people to not make the same mistakes again | |
| 10:25 | ok, have to leave, will be back later today | |
| 10:41 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 11:32 | cait joined #koha | |
| 11:38 | cait | hey magnuse |
| 11:38 | waking up now? :) | |
| 12:44 | jcamins_away | Heh. magnuse understands sleeping in on weekends. :) |
| 12:44 | cait | apparently :) |
| 12:44 | hi jared :) | |
| 12:45 | jcamins_away | Good morning. |
| 12:49 | jcamins | Myshkin says hi. |
| 12:52 | * cait | waves back at Myshkin |
| 17:00 | julian_m joined #koha | |
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| 17:33 | indradg | server sizing for Koha? |
| 17:34 | koha hardware requirement? | |
| 17:34 | jcamins | indradg: not sure wahanui has anything about that. |
| 17:34 | memory for koha? | |
| 17:34 | indradg | jcamins, ah well :) |
| 17:35 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 17:35 | indradg | jcamins, kinda... i had proposed a config for a koha server... and now |
| 17:35 | its come back to haunt me | |
| 17:36 | francharb | hi |
| 17:36 | wahanui | bonjour, francharb |
| 17:36 | jcamins | indradg: are you trying to figure out how large a server you need, or were you just wondering what wahanui had to say? |
| 17:36 | Uh-oh. What did you suggest? | |
| 18:24 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 18:26 | druthb | o/ |
| 18:27 | jcamins | \o |
| 18:27 | cait | hi druthb :) |
| 18:28 | druthb | :D |
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| 19:04 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 19:06 | jcamins | Welcome back, indradg. |
| 19:07 | indradg | jcamins, sorry was on phone... these were libs with typically 25k in collections each with about 500 - 1200 members, so i had placed a Intel Core 2 Duo E7600, 3.06 GHz with 2gigs of RAM as the server |
| 19:07 | jcamins, thanks :) | |
| 19:07 | jcamins | indradg: I would've thought that would be plenty. |
| 19:08 | * druthb | concurs; that actually sounds like overkill, to me. |
| 19:08 | jcamins | I guess I would've thought wrong? |
| 19:08 | druthb: well, with that many patrons for such a small library, I can see some pretty heavy circ usage. | |
| 19:09 | druthb | Even if all of the members came in twice a day, you're still not looking at 10K transactions a day, jcamins. |
| 19:09 | indradg | druthb, jcamins i had to factor another thing.. these are govt libs... and they wont be able to upgrade in next 4 years... so yeah overbuilt the boxes a bit |
| 19:09 | jcamins | druthb: true. |
| 19:10 | indradg | the server would additionally function as their web proxy with content filter and dhcp server for their 3 node LANs |
| 19:10 | druthb | yeah, sounds like, and that's good. Should provide plenty of growth room, too, unless you put a teeny tiny hard drive on em |
| 19:10 | indradg | plus offer web-dav shared folders |
| 19:11 | the servers went with 320 GB SATA HDD | |
| 19:11 | druthb | for the Koha part, that should be puh-lenty. |
| 19:11 | indradg | the boxes are essentially PC systems |
| 19:11 | druthb | so what ended up being the choke-point? |
| 19:12 | jcamins | druthb: I saw 5000-12000 members. |
| 19:12 | Just realized I added a zero. | |
| 19:12 | druthb | ;-) |
| 19:13 | indradg | we did the rollout at 170 libraries... and now there is a new govt and want to know if there are any "koha documentation" as far as h/w sizing estimates are concerned |
| 19:13 | jcamins | indradg: 170 libraries? Wow! |
| 19:13 | druthb | ah-hah. so, not a technological sticking point, but a *political* one. |
| 19:13 | indradg | i believe zebra can consume upto 500 MB ? jcamins druthb ? |
| 19:13 | druthb, yep... precisely | |
| 19:13 | jcamins | In terms of RAM? |
| 19:14 | I've never seen Zebra hit the default maxmem limit. | |
| 19:14 | And I think that's a lot lower. | |
| 19:14 | druthb | I've been meaning to do some math to correlate memory/disk vs koha size (transaction load, bib and borrower counts), but have not gotten that done. |
| 19:14 | indradg | jcamins, yeah... i vaguely remember seeing something that zebra can take up to 500 MB or so |
| 19:14 | * druthb | has a great long list of libraries to help provide data. |
| 19:14 | jcamins | indradg: you're off by a zero. |
| 19:15 | rangi | never seen it get about about 30meg |
| 19:15 | jcamins | *50* MB. |
| 19:15 | indradg | rangi, jcamins thankee! |
| 19:15 | jcamins | Apparently my inability to read is contagious. ;) |
| 19:15 | indradg: in terms of disk space, though, Zebra can take a fairly large amount. | |
| 19:16 | * druthb | squees and waves to rangi |
| 19:16 | rangi | heya druthb :) |
| 19:16 | jcamins | rangi: how large is the largest Zebra DB you've worked with? |
| 19:16 | rangi | 10 gig |
| 19:16 | that was 3 million bibs | |
| 19:16 | jcamins | rangi: is that the space taken up by indexes, or the space taken up by the raw MARC data? |
| 19:17 | rangi | indexes |
| 19:17 | raw marc is well less than that | |
| 19:17 | indradg | i find this on the m/l archives... but dunno if he is talking about the system in general or zebra in particular - http://lists.koha-community.or[…]March/032032.html |
| 19:18 | jcamins | Huh. I think the disk space requirements for Zebra indexes must not scale linearly. |
| 19:18 | indradg: he's talking about total RAM. | |
| 19:18 | indradg | hmm..k |
| 19:18 | jcamins | I'd agree with that. |
| 19:18 | rangi | yeah i dont see that |
| 19:18 | jcamins | rangi: you don't think so? |
| 19:19 | rangi: I wouldn't want to run a production system with <512MB of RAM at this point. | |
| 19:19 | rangi | i thought you were talking zebra |
| 19:19 | but no | |
| 19:19 | druthb | that's way conservative. I've got a DB with 300K+ bibs that doesn't take up more than 7 or 8 GB for the mysql data. |
| 19:19 | rangi | 512 ram is ridiculous |
| 19:19 | zebra would be fine with that much | |
| 19:19 | apache and mysql no | |
| 19:20 | jcamins | Ah. |
| 19:20 | Yeah, agreed. | |
| 19:20 | With both points. | |
| 19:21 | rangi | apache is the ram hog |
| 19:21 | jcamins | indradg: one point about the disk use for Zebra indexes: rangi is talking about the disk used by a fully-indexed database. If you're going to want the option of reindexing without totally taking down the system, you need to double the disk space requirement. |
| 19:21 | rangi | if you dont set up your max connections and threads |
| 19:22 | yeah but double 10 is still small | |
| 19:22 | indradg | i get tat |
| 19:22 | that* | |
| 19:22 | jcamins | rangi: true. |
| 19:22 | rangi: unless you're on Rackspace. | |
| 19:22 | rangi | yeah |
| 19:22 | cloud sux | |
| 19:23 | jcamins | EC2 is nice, but Rackspace... |
| 19:23 | * jcamins | shudders |
| 19:23 | rangi | nice until it goes down for 12 hours |
| 19:23 | its only nice if you have dr | |
| 19:23 | cait | dr? |
| 19:24 | rangi | disaster recovery |
| 19:24 | jcamins | Disaster recovery. |
| 19:24 | rangi | ask scls about that |
| 19:24 | indradg | so do we have any docs on the wiki about tentative h/w sizing guidelines? i tried to search... didn't find any |
| 19:25 | rangi | nope |
| 19:25 | jcamins | indradg: I don't think so. |
| 19:25 | * jcamins | encourages you to write one. :) |
| 19:25 | rangi | because to do so, is usually not that useful |
| 19:25 | its usually a how long is a piece of string | |
| 19:25 | question | |
| 19:26 | * druthb | notes that RFPs are usually chock-full of such useless questions. |
| 19:26 | jcamins | rangi: unless some bureaucrat wants to check off a box saying that the document exists, in which case it doesn't matter, it just needs to be there for box checking. |
| 19:27 | rangi | problem is, someone will take it seriously :) |
| 19:27 | * jcamins | suggests a document staying "Hardware should be no less than is required, but no more than is necessary." |
| 19:27 | rangi | there ya go |
| 19:27 | jcamins | s/staying/saying/ |
| 19:27 | indradg | well... for myself I do not need that doc... but these govt types are picking my brains... |
| 19:28 | rangi | yup, write one, and put it on the wiki and refer to that :-) |
| 19:28 | * druthb | suggests a wiki template tag that puts in "This document exists solely so that bureaucrats can check off boxes. don't take this seriously in the real world, ever." |
| 19:28 | rangi | :-) |
| 19:28 | indradg | druthb, ++ |
| 19:28 | rangi | maybe slightly diplomatically worded |
| 19:29 | 'This exists purely to satisfy RFP type requirements, please do your own research' | |
| 19:29 | type thing | |
| 19:29 | druthb | A tag at the bottom, maybe, that says, "if you're taking this seriously, you must not actually do this for a living?" |
| 19:29 | rangi | heh |
| 19:34 | * jcamins | added 300 words worth of footnotes. |
| 19:36 | jcamins | Yikes. |
| 19:37 | cait | sounds very academic :) |
| 19:42 | jcamins | cait: I guess I need to rewrite the rest of it so the rest is as academic-sounding. :) |
| 20:17 | bag | @wunder 93109 |
| 20:17 | huginn` | bag: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 16.0°C (12:17 PM PST on December 17, 2011). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Falling). |
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