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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:02 | davi left #koha | |
| 01:02 | larsw | Koha declares a dependency on HTTP::OAI, but http://search.cpan.org/~timbro[…]2/lib/HTTP/OAI.pm says it is a stub module |
| 01:02 | does Koha really need HTTP::OAI? | |
| 01:03 | ah, the module is not empty, after all, so I assume it will be needed | |
| 01:04 | chris | yeah it lets you allow your OPAC to be harvested |
| 01:05 | larsw | I need some sensible description for the Debian package -- dh-make-perl just extracts the manpage's "this is a stub", which is not good |
| 01:05 | chris | righto, 2 secs |
| 01:13 | larsw: try perldoc opac/oai.pl | |
| 01:13 | thats how we are using it at least | |
| 01:14 | larsw | http://paste.debian.net/67605/ is what I came up on my own |
| 01:14 | chris | seems fine to me |
| 01:14 | larsw | the perldoc command does not seem to give me any output |
| 01:14 | ok, then I'll keep that, thanks :) | |
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| 02:53 | abdullatef | Hi there |
| 02:53 | I'm Abdullatef from Malaysia | |
| 02:54 | yesterday i ask a question on searching | |
| 02:54 | we have install koha on debian | |
| 02:54 | but unfortunately the search is not working | |
| 02:55 | hdl_laptop ask me to check the zebra in install.debian | |
| 02:56 | we have checked it and the zebra is already installed | |
| 02:56 | but the search is still not working | |
| 02:57 | please help us | |
| 03:44 | Amit joined #koha | |
| 03:44 | Amit | hi all |
| 03:44 | good morning #koha | |
| 04:17 | Jo | woo hoo: Local Iwi are happy to co-host Koha conference attendees for a powhiri and evening meal out at the marae :) |
| 04:17 | after the mayoral reception ... Levin really is turning it on! | |
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| 04:26 | abdullatef | hi |
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| 07:12 | magnus | g'day #koha - and thus endeth the easter holiday in norway... |
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| 07:39 | chris | evening |
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| 07:42 | magnus is now known as magnus_away | |
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| 07:57 | kf | good morning #koha :) |
| 07:59 | Ropuch | Good morning #koha ;> |
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| 08:57 | Amit | heya Ropuch |
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| 10:05 | Nouman | hi all |
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| 10:52 | gmcharlt | good morning |
| 10:57 | chris | hi gmcharlt |
| 10:57 | gmcharlt | back and energized from a mini-vacation |
| 10:59 | chris | excellent, and well deserved |
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| 11:58 | kf | gmcharlt: around? |
| 11:58 | gmcharlt | hi kf |
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| 11:59 | kf | hi :) |
| 12:01 | gmcharlt: I have marc21 samples from our union catalog ready for you | |
| 12:01 | gmcharlt | kf: thanks |
| 12:02 | kf | its about 5 mb - is email ok? |
| 12:02 | which address? | |
| 12:02 | gmcharlt | yep - gmcharltgmail.com |
| 12:03 | kf | ok |
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| 12:11 | kf | ok, sent |
| 12:12 | Amit | heya kf, gmcharlt |
| 12:13 | gmcharlt | hi Amit |
| 12:13 | kf: got it, thanks | |
| 12:14 | Amit left #koha | |
| 12:14 | kf | gmcharlt: ah, we normally do some changes before importing them into koha |
| 12:15 | nicomo joined #koha | |
| 12:15 | kf | gmcharlt: we move authority numbers from our union catalog to $9 (withoug last number and (DE-576) and we use another utf-8 normalization |
| 12:17 | collum joined #koha | |
| 12:17 | kf | gmcharlt: just let me know if you want me to convert the data for koha - my colleague wrote a python program for this task |
| 12:17 | gmcharlt | kf: thanks - could you send me a copy of that python script? |
| 12:18 | braedon|home joined #koha | |
| 12:18 | kf | have to ask my colleague |
| 12:21 | gmcharlt: I will write him an email and ask for the script | |
| 12:24 | chris_n | morning |
| 12:25 | kf | morning chris_n |
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| 12:47 | owen | Hello quiet peoples of #koha |
| 12:47 | jdavidb | hi, owen. :) |
| 12:48 | jwagner | When they're quiet, they're plotting things..... |
| 12:48 | owen | Great things I hope |
| 12:48 | kf | jwagner: you know us ;) |
| 12:48 | jwagner | heh, heh |
| 12:49 | owen, you have small kids -- you know what it means when they're suspiciously quiet :-) | |
| 12:49 | owen | Yeah. Murder cover-up. |
| 12:50 | * jwagner | makes mental note to be exceptionally noisy from now on. |
| 12:50 | * jdavidb | has a little list....none of them will ever be missed... |
| 12:55 | * jwagner | starts singing Julia Ecklar's "Black Widows In the Privy" |
| 12:58 | jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting | |
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| 13:21 | hilongo | gooood morning #Koha :) |
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| 13:29 | jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner | |
| 13:35 | owen | Anyone up for a git question? "fatal: unable to chdir or not a git archive" |
| 13:35 | jdavidb | Context? |
| 13:35 | owen | Trying to git clone a remote repo. |
| 13:36 | "The remote end hung up unexpectedly" | |
| 13:36 | jdavidb | if the directory you're trying to clone to already exists, that's bad. clone to a name that does not exist; also make sure the logged in user has write privs where you are intending to put it. On the far end, make sure the clone url is correct; |
| 13:36 | a typo there will cause that problem. | |
| 13:37 | (in the case of GitHub repos, the suffix .git is *always* needed) | |
| 13:38 | owen | I wonder if git would have a problem following a symbolic link? |
| 13:38 | jdavidb | It might. |
| 13:38 | owen | git clone ssh://example.com/public_html/my_repo.git |
| 13:38 | "public_html" is a symbolic link | |
| 13:39 | jdavidb | try the absolute directory spec? |
| 13:41 | owen | Counting objects! |
| 13:41 | jdavidb | :) |
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| 14:24 | jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting | |
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| 14:37 | hilongo is now known as hilongo_away | |
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| 14:42 | jess | i'm sorry that i wanna aske some question about Koha |
| 14:43 | can i develop my own cataloging sheme instead of MARC which koha defaulted? | |
| 14:44 | owen | jess: You could create your own framework |
| 14:44 | It would be very tedious to do, but it's possible | |
| 14:44 | wizzyrea | you never have to apologize for asking questions here. :) |
| 14:44 | and good morning. | |
| 14:45 | kf | good morning wizzyrea :) |
| 14:45 | jess | good morning to you all~~^^ |
| 14:45 | is it mean that i have to delete the default framework and create a new one? | |
| 14:46 | owen | It might be easier to create a new framework by cloning the default one. Then you could delete what you don't need and add anything that's missing |
| 14:49 | jess | actually i'm doing my university assignment, and we are trying to develop a small size library about paint...... |
| 14:49 | the metadata scheme we developed is totally different from MARC | |
| 14:51 | wizzyrea | ohh. |
| 14:52 | jess | thus we are now puzzling whether there is open source ILS which can allow us to develop our own sheme....>.< |
| 14:52 | owen | How would your own scheme differ from a MARC one? |
| 14:55 | jess | for example, we would have the manufacturer's name, the function of the paint (e.g. interior emulsion, external emulsion etc.), the application of the paint (e.g. wood, wall, metal etc.), and the colour of the paint etc. |
| 14:56 | all of them are totally different from MARC, coz they are not print material....>< | |
| 14:56 | owen | To have a system which would allow you to create your own schemes from scratch would involve quite a bit of abstraction |
| 14:57 | sekjal | you could encode that information in MARC format. You'd just need to define your own meaning to the various fields and subfields, which is done throught the MARC frameworks |
| 14:57 | owen | You're talking about defining your own data structure, setting up a system for indexing and querying that structure, and setting up a system for outputting that data |
| 14:57 | sekjal | so, as opposed to MARC21 and UNIMARC, you'd have PAINTMARC |
| 14:58 | hdl_laptop | mmm... would result in many problems for indexing and sharing biblios |
| 14:59 | sekjal | yes, the indexing would need to be rewritten, as well |
| 14:59 | and the bibs would not be standard in anyway | |
| 15:00 | jess | mm.....we know.......we have already write our own tagging system... |
| 15:00 | owen | jess: Part of the reason an open source ILS works is that it uses standards which are shared by libraries around the world |
| 15:00 | Many many hours of work have gone into making the system work within those standards. | |
| 15:01 | jess | mm....so.....it seems that i can't use koha to finish my assignment.... |
| 15:01 | owen | What exactly is the assignment? |
| 15:01 | jess | the course call Metadata |
| 15:02 | we have to develop a metadata scheme for a topic and develop a database which can allow user to retrieve the information | |
| 15:03 | the easiest one is just use MS access, but we want to have the OPAC for value added..... | |
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| 15:04 | wizzyrea | I don't think any of the foss ILS's would explicitly allow that :/ |
| 15:04 | as owen said, they all follow the standards | |
| 15:04 | jess | mm.....thus....it seems that is impossible.... |
| 15:05 | owen | jess: Is programming part of your assignment? |
| 15:05 | sekjal | Perhaps a CMS like Drupal or Joomla? |
| 15:06 | wizzyrea | yea, i think there are wordpress plugins that let you do catalog-type stuff |
| 15:06 | which is really I think what you're looking for | |
| 15:06 | like, store-type catalogs | |
| 15:06 | not library type catalogs | |
| 15:06 | 1s, let me look | |
| 15:07 | jess | yes...u're right, it isn't exactly a library catalog, we just need the function to searching.. |
| 15:08 | it's just because we dont want to write the SQL lanuage, it's very troublesome | |
| 15:08 | sekjal | I'd recommend a CMS, then. Wordpress is pretty great, and I think it may be faster to configure than Drupal or Joomla. |
| 15:08 | wizzyrea | I would look into e commerce solutions |
| 15:08 | they will probably do what you need | |
| 15:09 | http://wordpress.org/extend/pl[…]ns/wp-e-commerce/ | |
| 15:09 | as an example | |
| 15:09 | jess | thank you very much~~~u all help me a lot~~~^^ |
| 15:11 | wizzyrea | :) even when we can't help, we still try ;) |
| 15:11 | jess | thanks a lot~~u all are so kind~~ |
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| 15:52 | chris_n | are we there yet? |
| 15:54 | paul_p | hello chris_n & wizzyrea & owen & everybody |
| 15:56 | chris_n | howdy paul_p |
| 15:56 | is it friday yet? | |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | hi paul_p |
| 15:57 | chris_n: it's Friday ... nowhere, I'm afraid | |
| 15:57 | * chris_n | puts his head down and sobs into his keyboard |
| 15:57 | sekjal | I've heard of this restaurant that advertises to the contrary... |
| 15:57 | paul_p | chris_n, why are you asking about friday ? expecting for a week-end already ? |
| 15:58 | sekjal | perhaps they have some kind of time dilator |
| 15:58 | kf | it feels like monday... |
| 15:58 | * paul_p | send chris_n a wave of spring sun from Marseille |
| 15:58 | chris_n | paul_p: sometimes time moves verrrrry slooowww |
| 15:59 | paul_p | chris_n, lucky man. For me, it's always too fast... |
| 15:59 | * chris_n | will take all of the spring he can get |
| 16:00 | wizzyrea | chris_n: hey, at least it's the day before the day before the day before friday |
| 16:00 | paul_p | wizzyrea++ |
| 16:00 | lol :D | |
| 16:00 | chris_n | paul_p: it all depends on prospective.... going to vacation takes forever... coming back is very fast ;) |
| 16:00 | wizzyrea: :) | |
| 16:01 | wizzyrea | I was going to say we are at the apex of distance from friday, but I think actually we're over that hump |
| 16:02 | indradg left #koha | |
| 16:02 | wizzyrea | that being the point in the week at which you are equidistant from the last friday and your next one |
| 16:02 | equi-temporally-distant, I should say | |
| 16:02 | am I being obtuse enough? | |
| 16:02 | you are distracted now, nonetheless | |
| 16:02 | ;) | |
| 16:02 | paul_p | wizzyrea, and this is really depending on your TZ ! |
| 16:02 | wizzyrea | paul_p: too true! |
| 16:03 | chris_n: you're only 2 days from friday if you're in NZ :P | |
| 16:03 | hilongo | So ... from now on... its all way down to next Friday .. :) |
| 16:04 | we'll have to relax... and slide | |
| 16:04 | wizzyrea | hilongo: yes, the sled of time is sliding ever nearer to friday. I say throw up your hands and scream all the way ;) |
| 16:04 | chris_n | lol |
| 16:06 | wizzyrea | oh good he's laughing now instead of sobbing |
| 16:06 | * wizzyrea | wins |
| 16:06 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea++ |
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| 16:12 | * chris_n | heads off in search of food |
| 16:15 | braedon|home1 left #koha | |
| 16:15 | paul_p | chris_n, if you want to see some images of Marseille beaches, head here : http://www.marseille.fr/sitevd[…]=plages&page_id=1 |
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| 16:23 | kf | ok, more koha tomorrow - bye all :) |
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| 17:07 | indradg | chris, ping |
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| 17:18 | DRUlm | Yes, it *is* 80 degress and like summer here - but I am replacing the firewall :) |
| 17:18 | Glad to have the work mind you! | |
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| 17:42 | chris_n | @wunder 28334 |
| 17:42 | munin | chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 31.7�C (1:43 PM EDT on April 06, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 8%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1002.9 hPa (Falling). |
| 17:45 | fredericd | Does anyone has any issue with the way biblio data entry form handles mandatory fields and hidden subfields? |
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| 17:49 | thd | fredericd: what issue are you having? |
| 17:49 | Sharon joined #koha | |
| 17:49 | fredericd | thd: hello, how are you? |
| 17:49 | hidden subfields are not hidden | |
| 17:50 | All subfields of a mandatory fiels are visible, even if they are supposed to be hidden | |
| 17:50 | DRUlm | Mandatory fields. Hmmm. Well, you need to setup the normal fields you use and then allow other ones that you might need as hidden. |
| 17:50 | Really? I have not found that, what version? | |
| 17:51 | fredericd | head version |
| 17:51 | thd | fredericd: would you have hidden mandatory subfields auto-filled? |
| 17:51 | fredericd | thd: I don't understand... |
| 17:52 | thd | fredericd: is the hidden subfield intended to be mandatory? |
| 17:52 | fredericd | no |
| 17:53 | jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting | |
| 17:54 | thd | The rules about hidden and mandatory are very blunt and not allow subtle conditions. |
| 17:55 | fredericd: Record editing needs a complete rewrite. | |
| 17:55 | DRUlm | Seems that way to a point |
| 17:55 | Or a simple raw editor included as an option | |
| 17:55 | would solve many problems | |
| 17:55 | fredericd | I agree. In the meantime... |
| 17:56 | thd | RRUlm: PTFS has released a currently non-free raw editor. |
| 17:56 | fredericd | thd: It's not an editor. |
| 17:57 | thd | fredericd: It could be used as an editor. |
| 17:57 | DRUlm | No I just mean built into koha |
| 17:58 | thd | DRUlm: Lack of being built into Koha is part of the reason the programmer had given for not releasing the code last year. |
| 17:58 | owen | thd: Can you elaborate? |
| 17:59 | DRUlm | Not really thinking about politics, just thinking about the software |
| 17:59 | slef | evening |
| 17:59 | thd | fredericd: I will come back to your problem quickly |
| 18:00 | owen: John Yokley tried to persuade the programmer Rashid to release the code last spring. | |
| 18:00 | DRUlm | Well, I agree, release the code! |
| 18:01 | thd | owen: John Yokley told me that he would not order him to release the code. |
| 18:01 | slef | date -d @1267556400 is not Tuesday, 6 April 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 (spotted on http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes10apr06 ) |
| 18:01 | thd | DRUlm: You have to persuade Rashid personally. |
| 18:02 | DRUlm | I do? |
| 18:02 | thd | Asking PTFS is not the best approach in this case. |
| 18:02 | slef | I think it should be date -d @1270580400 - anyone agree? |
| 18:02 | owen | This Rashid is not an employee of PTFS? |
| 18:03 | gmcharlt | slef: yep, looks that way |
| 18:03 | i.e., community handover meeting is 56 minutes from now | |
| 18:03 | thd | owen: he is, I met him during the SLA conference |
| 18:04 | owen: I think that he is quite friendly but personally too much of a perfectionist too be very willing to release his code | |
| 18:04 | DRUlm | gmcharlt, what will go down at this meeting, voting? |
| 18:04 | owen | As an employee of PTFS doesn't PTFS hold the copyright to his work? |
| 18:04 | thd | owen: That is not the point |
| 18:05 | gmcharlt | DRUlm: not much, I suspect - I'm not aware of any issues to vote on |
| 18:05 | thd | owen: PTFS could have released the code a year ago |
| 18:05 | owen: The impression which I took is that PTFS has respect for the preference of programmers | |
| 18:06 | gmcharlt | DRUlm: main issue as Jo mentioned in her post earlier today is no progress on domains and trademark xfrs since last meeting |
| 18:06 | DRUlm | Thanks, been up since 5am, starting to fade |
| 18:06 | thd | owen: I sent a message to PTFS for Rashid giving good arguments for releasing the code last summer |
| 18:07 | gmcharlt | DRUlm: there may be discussion of Kaitiaki, but I don't know if anybody has anything specific to say regarding that position |
| 18:07 | thd | I am told that the message was passed on to Rashid |
| 18:08 | * owen | wonders what other restrictions PTFS programmers are allowed to place on how their work is used |
| 18:10 | thd | owen: think of it the other way round |
| 18:11 | owen: think of PTFS deferring to some extent to the choices of their employees | |
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| 18:12 | thd | owen: individual choices, such that if individuals are well motivated towards free software then that would be great |
| 18:12 | owen: I actually had a quite favourable impression of PTFS over this | |
| 18:12 | slef | In my experience, such setups don't work in favour of worker or software freedom, but I don't know what goes on in this particular case. |
| 18:13 | thd | owen: the impression I had was that PTFS respected the views of their programmers |
| 18:13 | DRUlm | Cool |
| 18:13 | owen | I worry that PTFS could be using that as an out |
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| 18:13 | thd | slef: the problem here is persuading one individual to give up clinging too tightly to his own standard of perfection |
| 18:14 | slef: I have the same problem, so I am sympathetic | |
| 18:14 | owen | Here's a way to think of it the other way round: what if a programmer was being paid to create software for a client and insisted that it be released as open source? |
| 18:15 | thd | owen: They might be now with the acquisition of LibLime but there position had been very different a year ago. |
| 18:15 | owen: exactly | |
| 18:15 | owen: That is a good way of looking at it. | |
| 18:15 | chris | i vote jdavidb insists LLEK is open source now |
| 18:16 | lets see how that goes | |
| 18:16 | slef | bbl (DST caught me out, again) |
| 18:16 | thd | owen: Persuade the programmers individually and we will all be in a better situation. |
| 18:16 | DRUlm | Ha |
| 18:17 | There are good reasons to do so | |
| 18:17 | thd | chris: I think that the only problem is that programmer choice would not be decisive if a contract or policy prevents code release. |
| 18:17 | chris | exactly |
| 18:17 | so its convient in this case | |
| 18:17 | i call BS | |
| 18:17 | and shenanigans | |
| 18:18 | thd | chris: I think that this case about the record editor is different. |
| 18:18 | gmcharlt | thd: the record editor is a sideline (or side show?) in any event |
| 18:18 | slef | there is another possible problem: instruct the programmers that they must oppose, but tell the world that licensing is responsibility of the programmers. Not that I'm saying it happened here, but I've seen that sort of thing. |
| 18:19 | Combined with NDAs, it's a whole bundle of subterfuge. | |
| 18:19 | DRUlm | gmch: agreed |
| 18:19 | chris | gmcharlt++ |
| 18:19 | slef | now really bbl |
| 18:19 | DRUlm | we'll or just business. it is what it is |
| 18:20 | thd | gmcharlt: I think that it may be less of a sideshow than would be evident |
| 18:21 | gmcharlt | one of the beauties and flaws of a command-and-control company is that although an owner can and ought to accept input from the staff, ultimately the owner can just say that something has to get done already; conversely, the owner is always thereby responsible for the actions of the company |
| 18:22 | chris | yup, the freeware release had ptfs/liblime's name all over it, not rashid |
| 18:23 | thd | chris: I note that Rashid's name is prominent in the press release |
| 18:23 | owen | It's a sign of how far we've come that the term "freeware" struck me as quaint |
| 18:24 | chris | Liblime, a division of PTFS, has released its MARC Utilities – Metadata Converter, for the manipulation and editing of MARC records in batch mode. |
| 18:24 | thd | chris: I would suggest that we start a conversation with Rashid personally in very positive terms. |
| 18:24 | chris: his name is not in the title of course | |
| 18:24 | chris | Liblime released the MARC Utilities editor in the hopes that this library freeware tool will make MARC data conversion easier for library staff and ILS database administrators. Liblime invites all users to let us know if you have any comments or suggestions on enhancing or adding more functionality to MARC Utilities. |
| 18:24 | it doesnt say "persuade our employee for us since we can't" | |
| 18:25 | it says contact liblime | |
| 18:25 | thd | chris: it would never say that |
| 18:25 | chris | well it should, if thats the truth of the matter |
| 18:25 | nengard | :) |
| 18:25 | thd | chris: I am giving information which I know from a year ago |
| 18:26 | chris | right, im sayng its not relevant |
| 18:26 | ptfs/liblime released it, ptfs/liblme own the decision not to release it as free software | |
| 18:26 | thd | chris: I think that it is relevant to how PTFS sometimes works as a company. |
| 18:27 | chris | its how they told you they work |
| 18:27 | thd | chris: I agree that they own the decision |
| 18:27 | chris: I am not trying to defend PTFS here | |
| 18:27 | chris | i dont know if thats true or not, all we can do is look at the results and the actions or inactions of them |
| 18:27 | so far | |
| 18:27 | no action on koha.org | |
| 18:27 | and releasing freeware | |
| 18:27 | thats what the current tally is | |
| 18:28 | thd | chris: the question is what is the best way to effect a change towards the change we want. |
| 18:28 | chris | thd: im actually past caring |
| 18:28 | thd | chris: My information is that the best way is to persuade the individuals |
| 18:29 | chris | i vote we just ignore the whole sideshow and when/if ptfs decide they want to interact with the project we'll still be here |
| 18:30 | theres bugs to fix, and releases to be made, lets worry about that | |
| 18:30 | nengard | chris++ |
| 18:30 | owen | I note also that no one got any on-list response from the person who posted the announcement to the Koha list |
| 18:30 | nengard | heading to the city to do a presentation now ... kind of wish i didn't have to go |
| 18:31 | talk to you all later | |
| 18:31 | chris | cya later |
| 18:31 | nengard left #koha | |
| 18:31 | thd | chris: If I had taken the ignore them until they are ready approach, then they would not have been participating in the community the way they had last year. |
| 18:32 | chris | well that's your call, so far emails from jo and i have been ignored, im not going to waste my time, there are many more things id rather use it on |
| 18:33 | thd | chris: I would not expect big changes because understand that they are overwhelmed. |
| 18:34 | chris | i call BS on that too |
| 18:34 | you dont wake up and buy a company | |
| 18:34 | thd | chris: They do not have enough people to meet the demands of LibLime customers yet. |
| 18:34 | chris | its not like they had it sprung on them |
| 18:35 | and that stops a 2 line dns change? | |
| 18:35 | DRUlm | nengard, Arlington - yeah, west DC is better. |
| 18:36 | Oh wait, C.I.L. has not started yet, next week | |
| 18:36 | thd | chris: I suspect that they are not likely to make such a change without considering it for a few months after addressing other issues first. |
| 18:37 | chris | probably so, hence lets just not worry about it, and do stuff that is actually useful |
| 18:37 | DRUlm | I think if they open the code up, it will take 2-3 months to do so, however, the longer the wait, the more differences, sooner would make more sense from an open source standpoint |
| 18:37 | chris | DRUlm: it would take about 30 mins |
| 18:37 | to make a public repo | |
| 18:37 | DRUlm | Also, has there been a TarBall produced for LLEK yet, is there not supposed to be a release at least occasionally? |
| 18:37 | chris | its already all licenses under the GPL, it has to be |
| 18:38 | DRUlm | Yes, this is true. |
| 18:38 | chris | the truth is there is no desire, not that its hard |
| 18:38 | DRUlm | Decision making in business can be 90% of the overhead and tech 10% - depends how a company runs. |
| 18:38 | thd | chris: If we are willing to accept for the moment what they may be willing to do shortly I think that we can have real progress even if we do not get what we would like. |
| 18:38 | chris: I think that you are right. | |
| 18:39 | chris | thd: im unconvinced we need them, they need the community, not the other way round |
| 18:39 | thd | chris: Yet there is still much to be gained short of what we would like. |
| 18:39 | chris: I also agree | |
| 18:39 | DRUlm | It could take them years if a company has some large wing of decision makers. Who knows. |
| 18:39 | thd | chris: I am willing to take what me be available. |
| 18:40 | chris | and there is only wilful ignorance available as an excuse at this point |
| 18:40 | thd | DRUlm: They are not that big. |
| 18:40 | chris | since many many overtures have been made |
| 18:40 | DRUlm | Oh, well. I guess there are decisions being made. |
| 18:41 | So has there been a LLEK tarball yet? | |
| 18:41 | chris | so i say, lets just move on, and they'll do what they do, there are so many other things we could/should be talkng about instead |
| 18:41 | DRUlm: you are joking right? :) | |
| 18:41 | DRUlm | Isn't it based on the orginal Koha open source code? How can it not be released? |
| 18:42 | thd | chris: They announced at ALA midwinter that they would not be making any changes affecting the LLEK business model for at least three months after acquisition. |
| 18:42 | chris | it is all licensed under the same license, but they are not distributing it |
| 18:42 | sekjal | LLEK is hosted-only, which gets around the GPL's requirement to release |
| 18:42 | chris | they are only providing it as software as a service |
| 18:43 | DRUlm | While the code is running remote on their servers, legally, parts of the code (like the HTML and JAvascript) run locally at a library, so I am not sure if the licence still applies since ALL the code is not running remote, much of it (and in this case, *any*) is running off their servers on the web-browser clients, so one would think by the licence even as it stands, it needs to be released |
| 18:43 | thd | chris: I think that we do not need PTFS or LibLime but we would be better off with some cooperation from them that they would be willing to provide. |
| 18:44 | DRUlm | Hosted, yes, but *much* of the code runs un-hosted on the browsers |
| 18:44 | chris | DRUlm: better lawyers than I have tried that line ... it doesnt work hence the AGPL |
| 18:44 | DRUlm | Nutty. |
| 18:44 | chris | thd: when they decide that, we'll be right here |
| 18:45 | DRUlm | Well, good luck. |
| 18:45 | thd | chris: I know of some specific small things which I suspect that they would be willing to discuss now. |
| 18:47 | fredericd: sorry for neglecting your question. (I have not been communicating much with others recently.) | |
| 18:48 | fredericd: the way in which the mandatory flag functions for the record editor is problematical. | |
| 18:48 | chris | thd: so far all Jo and I have received is silence ... so feel free to continue yourself, but I'm not going to waste my time |
| 18:49 | DRUlm left #koha | |
| 18:51 | thd | chris: I have had the experience answering the telephone in a retail shop after some significant publicity where I had not time to do anything but answer the telephone for a few days. |
| 18:52 | chris | thd: its not a new thing, its months |
| 18:52 | like i say, im not going to tell you what to do, but im not expending energy on it | |
| 18:52 | thd | chris: It is officially and actually a new thing despite months of planning. |
| 18:53 | chris | no, the emails being ignored isnt new |
| 18:54 | thd | chris: I have an advantage of proximity but I will not ask them anything directly on behalf of the community because I do not want to be treated in a formal way. |
| 18:55 | chris: Perhaps they need both a formal and informal approach. | |
| 18:55 | chris | thd: i feel sure they know what the community wants |
| 18:56 | they just need to decide what they want | |
| 18:56 | in the meantime, lets fix some bugs instead | |
| 18:56 | thd | chris: We both know that they are not prepared to consider what the community wants most at this time. |
| 18:57 | chris | the domain name? |
| 18:57 | yeah ive heard as much | |
| 18:57 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 18:57 | chris | evening Colin |
| 18:57 | thd | chris: I think that being too insistent about the domain at this time is only likely to obtain silence. |
| 18:58 | Colin | hi all |
| 18:58 | chris | thd: hence why i say, lets not bother |
| 18:58 | since thats all we actually want | |
| 18:59 | thd | chris: The answer to that question may ultimately be no, but there are real advantages short of that. |
| 18:59 | gmcharlt | greetings folks - it's 19:00 UTC+0, time for the community handover IRC meeting |
| 18:59 | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes10apr06 | |
| 18:59 | wizzyrea | you know, all I really want from ptfs is coopetition in the community. |
| 19:00 | I want them to behave like any other koha support company | |
| 19:00 | like *every* other koha support company. | |
| 19:00 | (that I know of) | |
| 19:00 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea++ |
| 19:00 | chris | Jo sends her apologies |
| 19:00 | thd | wizzyrea++ |
| 19:01 | gmcharlt | let's do roll call |
| 19:01 | * gmcharlt | = Galen Charlton, ESI |
| 19:01 | chris | Chris Cormack, Catalyst |
| 19:01 | Colin | Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe |
| 19:01 | * wizzyrea | = Liz Rea, NEKLS |
| 19:01 | thd | Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 19:01 | owen | Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library |
| 19:01 | Sharon | Sharon Moreland, NEKLS |
| 19:01 | slef | MJ Ray, member of software.coop |
| 19:02 | sekjal | Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions |
| 19:04 | brendan left #koha | |
| 19:04 | gmcharlt | so agenda is |
| 19:04 | - Welcomes and introductions. | |
| 19:04 | - Report on Subcommittee | |
| 19:04 | - Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. | |
| 19:04 | - Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. | |
| 19:04 | - Next issues if negotiations have concluded. | |
| 19:04 | - Agree time of next meeting. | |
| 19:05 | chris | i can take the first one |
| 19:05 | * Ropuch | = Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE |
| 19:05 | chris | the subcommittee decided not to meet yet, as there is no pressing business |
| 19:09 | gmcharlt | and Jo answered the second point, I believe - no change re status of negotiations |
| 19:09 | chris | which pretty much is the same answer for the 2nd point too |
| 19:09 | yup :) | |
| 19:10 | Nouman left #koha | |
| 19:10 | chris_n | <= Chris Nighswonger, FBC |
| 19:10 | gmcharlt | so on to suggestions for unresolved negotiations - as chris says, we're here |
| 19:10 | collum | Garry Collum, KCPL |
| 19:10 | gmcharlt | if/when PTFS is ready to to discuss koha.org openly |
| 19:11 | chris | openly++ |
| 19:11 | back_room_deals-- | |
| 19:13 | owen | Given the impasse we're at now, is there a point in holding regular handover meetings? |
| 19:14 | thd | are there not other parties and is there not other business? |
| 19:14 | gmcharlt | owen: possibly not, except as a vehicle for dealings of the Koha Committee of the HLT |
| 19:15 | wizzyrea | oh, one thing I would like to talk about very briefly: I am planning on changing how the support company news is displayed on k-c.org |
| 19:15 | I would like to change it from a "post on our site" to an aggregate of all of your individual news feeds | |
| 19:15 | 1. less work for you and me and 2. more fair | |
| 19:15 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: +1 |
| 19:16 | thd | wizzyrea: What would be aggregated and in what manner? |
| 19:16 | wizzyrea | RSS feeds of press releases, through yahoo pipes. |
| 19:17 | thd | wizzyrea: Use them if they work for you but yahoo pipes are non-free. |
| 19:17 | wizzyrea | thd: noted. |
| 19:18 | slef | wizzyrea: feedwordpress worksforme |
| 19:19 | thd | wizzyrea: multiple companies would aggregate feeds together or each company would aggregate its feed separately? |
| 19:19 | gmcharlt | I would a imagine that each company would provide a relevant RSS feed or feeds to be included in the aggregator at wizzyrea's discretion? |
| 19:19 | chris | wizzyrea: works for me |
| 19:20 | wizzyrea | I think the latter, I'm depending on the companies to provide the news |
| 19:20 | I"m just collecting it | |
| 19:20 | and outputting it on our site | |
| 19:20 | slef left #koha | |
| 19:20 | chris | i like that much better than them being posts there |
| 19:20 | slef joined #koha | |
| 19:20 | * slef | glares at ERC |
| 19:20 | thd | wizzyrea: thanks, I was merely confused about how the difference would actually appear |
| 19:21 | wizzyrea | Aha :) |
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| 19:21 | wizzyrea | well, tell you what, if you give me a lil time here, I will have an example and you can *see* what I"m talking about :) |
| 19:21 | thd | slef: ERC |
| 19:22 | slef: ERC? | |
| 19:22 | slef | thd: the IRC client I use. |
| 19:22 | wizzyrea | the reason I want to change it is that we currently really only have one support company posting things |
| 19:22 | I know the others have had releases | |
| 19:22 | but they are not posting them on k-c.org | |
| 19:22 | (laziness, poutiness, you name it) | |
| 19:23 | (busy-ness) | |
| 19:23 | (more likely the 3rd) | |
| 19:23 | thd | wizzyrea: I am all for anything that gives even the appearance of more fairness |
| 19:23 | wizzyrea | they *are* posting them on their own sites though |
| 19:23 | and rather than copy/paste, this seems like a fairer solution | |
| 19:24 | slef | Basically, every hour we spend reposting news releases is an hour not spent on developing cool features for our users or supporting k-c. I already have things I want to add to k-c when I get comfortable with it. |
| 19:24 | wizzyrea | oh, and I am still working on the directory |
| 19:24 | looking for solutions there | |
| 19:24 | slef | That's one of them :) |
| 19:24 | wizzyrea | slef++ |
| 19:24 | :) | |
| 19:24 | chris | yeah, aggregate rss feeds seems like a much better plan |
| 19:25 | wizzyrea | alright, I shall make it so then. |
| 19:25 | chris | i mean thats what its for, syndication :) |
| 19:25 | wizzyrea | ty for your time |
| 19:25 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea++ |
| 19:25 | sekjal | thank you, wizzyrea! |
| 19:26 | slef | wizzyrea: Thanks for your work. I'm horribly intermittent today, but I should talk to you about what we can do most helpfully. |
| 19:26 | chris | re the meeting, i think we should leave the next one unscheduled, and call one if/when we need it |
| 19:26 | wizzyrea | whenever you're ready slef ;) |
| 19:26 | chris | the general meeting can catch pretty much everythng we want to discuss |
| 19:27 | slef | maybe just add a quick report on the subcommittee to the generals? |
| 19:27 | chris | that'd work |
| 19:28 | thd | are there not other parties aside from PTFS/LibLime who may have yet to be asked about community related assets? |
| 19:28 | wizzyrea | oh, which also means: if you have a news feed URL, send it to me, please. PM's/Email/carrier pigeon, all work. |
| 19:29 | I'm going out looking for them but if I miss you, send me the urls, please. | |
| 19:31 | slef | thd: I don't remember our current situation. Let me look it up. |
| 19:31 | * chris_n | goes out to dispatch a covey of pigeons |
| 19:33 | slef | We asked if HLT would offer FOSS-friendly trademark terms which would allow us to enter some sort of agreement and we are waiting for reply since 10 February. |
| 19:33 | bbi10ish | |
| 19:35 | chris | slef: its pretty much impossible to trademark koha in nz |
| 19:35 | thd | As I understand the issue which slef may be raising, using a mark in business without evident permission is a criminal offence in the UK. |
| 19:35 | chris | but for the EU one, im sure the subcomittee could deal with that |
| 19:35 | thd | chris: slef is not concerned about what would happen to him in NZ :) |
| 19:36 | chris | slef: want to send me an email with what it would entail and ill raise it |
| 19:38 | afaik we are still waiting on bureaucrats for the transfer, once its done im sure terms that are foss friendly can be worked out | |
| 19:40 | slef | back |
| 19:40 | chris: will do. | |
| 19:40 | thd: it should be similar in most WIPO nations, as I understand it. | |
| 19:41 | chris | acta will fix all that |
| 19:41 | WIPO is being relegated | |
| 19:41 | * chris | be's pessimistic |
| 19:42 | thd | slef: I think that trademarks are still only a civil matter in the US. |
| 19:42 | slef | thd: however, software.coop hold pre-existing rights which I understand should protect us, and also invalidate the CTM registration attempt (aka the EU one) if we don't agree to it. |
| 19:43 | chris: *sigh* when I'm done with the Digital Economy (destruction) Bill, I'll take a look at ACTA :-( | |
| 19:43 | chris | thd: acta will fix that too |
| 19:44 | jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner | |
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| 19:45 | chris | slef: next round of acta negotiations are here |
| 19:46 | nz are pushing for openness .. but we are small fry | |
| 19:46 | i suspect we will just be bullied, like anyone not the US or EU | |
| 19:46 | slef | oh well, parliament.uk is being dissolved soon, so maybe I can raise it in the campaigns |
| 19:47 | owen | Is the meeting still on or can I ask a Koha question? |
| 19:47 | chris | ah yeah, saw that on the news, may 4th election? |
| 19:47 | owen: i think ts finished | |
| 19:47 | owen | Anyone know about where items.cn_sort comes from? I've got a couple of variations on the kind of data there |
| 19:47 | * chris | has 10 mins before the bus |
| 19:47 | chris | ahhh |
| 19:47 | yeah i did know that | |
| 19:48 | owen | Example one: 204_420000000000000_JA Example two: 205.677 My |
| 19:48 | chris | its supposed to be a sortable version of the callnumber |
| 19:48 | but yeah, its broken | |
| 19:48 | i did a patch for someone at waldo, it got thrown in the bin i think | |
| 19:48 | ill find it | |
| 19:49 | owen | Is Koha generating that long version of the call number? |
| 19:49 | chris | yes |
| 19:49 | slef | chris: I thought 6th May but I've not seen the news today. Been busy working. |
| 19:49 | chris | owen: it pads it to make it sortable |
| 19:49 | Colin | yes 6th of may |
| 19:49 | chris | Colin: shows how much attention i was paying, i got distracted by the puppets in the background :) |
| 19:49 | owen | chris: My initial assumption was that the shorter format call numbers were older data before the sortable version was developed |
| 19:49 | chris | owen: could well be |
| 19:50 | slef | how well are patches getting into koha mainline at the moment? I think I have ones on gitorious koha smallbugs branch waiting. |
| 19:50 | chris | but i do know that the sort routine doesn't fully work |
| 19:50 | owen | chris: The routine for generating the sortable version? |
| 19:50 | chris | slef: gmcharlt is still the release manager for master, so send koha-patcheslists.koha.org a request to pull |
| 19:51 | (or if its 3.0.x its still hdl .. same thing applies) | |
| 19:51 | owen: yes, at least i think thats what i am remembering | |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | slef: working on clearing out backlog - there will be pushes tomorrow |
| 19:52 | chris | owen: if you send me an email (i use my inbox as my todo list) ill look into it on my lunch |
| 19:52 | slef | smallbugs is for 3.0.x |
| 19:52 | chris | slef: hdl_laptop is your man then |
| 19:52 | slef | I've sent pull requests. |
| 19:53 | will resend | |
| 19:53 | chris | cool |
| 19:53 | ok bus time | |
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| 19:54 | wizzyrea | http://koha-community.org/cate[…]s/press-releases/ |
| 19:55 | these are the first 3 I have added. | |
| 19:55 | sekjal | thanks, wizzyrea. looks good to me. |
| 19:55 | slef | now in kitchen... no web here... will look in 70mins or so |
| 19:57 | ok, bye all | |
| 19:57 | wizzyrea | ty for the feedpress suggestion |
| 19:57 | just what I needed | |
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| 20:14 | owen | Bye all |
| 20:14 | owen left #koha | |
| 20:15 | cait | good night #koha |
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| 20:31 | richard | hi |
| 20:31 | Jo | hiya |
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| 20:43 | chris | back |
| 20:49 | Jo | hita Chris. |
| 20:49 | hiya | |
| 20:49 | just read the logs of the meeting. | |
| 20:49 | gmcharlt | hi Jo |
| 20:49 | Jo | Hi Galen |
| 20:49 | sorry about that folks. | |
| 20:50 | the boys got invited to stay on a dairty farm for a week and its been a blind panic arranging gumboots and raincoats and booking buses etc .. anyway they are now safely off on their first unaccompanied bus trip to the middle of nowhere | |
| 20:51 | and I'm a nervous wreck .... just breathing. Anyone who kidnapped my boys wouldn't keep them for long :) | |
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| 20:52 | wizzyrea | hehe |
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| 22:08 | * jdavidb | notes chris's nomination of 18:15 server time, and declines; he prefers to be still working, over abrupt unemployment. |
| 22:16 | rhcl2 | does anybody understand this? http://www.publicip.net/open_source.php |
| 22:17 | I must be too tired, but whatever (s)he's trying to say confustes me | |
| 22:19 | chris | jdavidb: :-) |
| 22:19 | larsw | "open source programmers don't do it for the money, we do it to express ourselves" -- that's delusional |
| 22:19 | chris | jdavidb: it was tongue in cheek :-) |
| 22:19 | jdavidb | :) |
| 22:20 | rhcl2 | Public IP's software is mostly open source. It's been built using 100% open source (commercial licensing has been purchased for some of the source code to avoid re-releasing modified code as specified in the GPL). |
| 22:20 | The ideal of open source drives Public IP. | |
| 22:20 | so which is it? | |
| 22:21 | I should have put quotes around the above | |
| 22:21 | rhcl2 is now known as rhcl_away | |
| 22:22 | chris | i think they are going for the ideal of open source, not free software maybe :) |
| 22:37 | chris_n | wow... http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ear[…]es/us2010utc5.php |
| 22:37 | chris | ack |
| 22:37 | * chris | goes to check stuff.co.nz |
| 22:38 | chris | i always have an urge to check the traffic graphs whenever any news breaks |
| 22:38 | chris_n | yeah, the pipes fill up quick |
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