← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:29 | Wizzyrea_ left #koha | |
| 00:51 | brendan left #koha | |
| 01:49 | chris_n2 | @make coffee |
| 01:49 | munin` | chris_n2: downloading the Perl source |
| 01:49 | chris_n2 | hrmmm |
| 01:54 | my $perfect_cup = $coffee->make(grind => 'Panama Las Flores de Volcan', pot => 'french press', steep_time => 5, additives=> [cream, sugar, whipping cream]); | |
| 01:55 | munin: take note | |
| 02:57 | brendan joined #koha | |
| 03:03 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 03:24 | schuster | Silence... Oh well nobody here or they are all deep in PERL code! |
| 03:30 | Amit joined #koha | |
| 03:30 | Amit | heya chris, brendan, richard |
| 03:30 | brendan | heya amit |
| 03:31 | Amit | brendan: coming long weekend |
| 03:32 | brendan | where are you going amit |
| 03:33 | chris_n2 | schuster: deep.... more like glub...glub... in it ;-) |
| 03:33 | hi Amit, brendan | |
| 03:34 | schuster left #koha | |
| 03:34 | brendan | hi chris_n2 |
| 03:34 | Amit | hi chris_n2 |
| 03:36 | brendan: right now not any planning three day off sat, sun, mon | |
| 03:36 | brendan | enjoy |
| 03:36 | get some good veggie indian food | |
| 03:37 | Amit | hmm |
| 03:38 | breandan: i like only rajma rice | |
| 04:16 | mib_db39i9 joined #koha | |
| 04:19 | mib_db39i9 left #koha | |
| 04:29 | chris_n2 | g'night |
| 04:29 | chris_n2 is now known as chris_n2-away | |
| 04:47 | richard left #koha | |
| 04:57 | brendan | good night all |
| 04:57 | brendan left #koha | |
| 04:59 | brendan joined #koha | |
| 05:24 | Wizzyrea_ joined #koha | |
| 05:25 | brendan left #koha | |
| 05:34 | Jo | good night all. |
| 05:34 | Jo left #koha | |
| 05:40 | anasha joined #koha | |
| 05:41 | magnusenger left #koha | |
| 05:44 | Wizzyrea_ left #koha | |
| 05:51 | snail joined #koha | |
| 06:03 | Ropuch | Morning |
| 06:13 | magnusenger joined #koha | |
| 06:27 | Amit | hi ropuch |
| 06:49 | kf joined #koha | |
| 06:50 | kf | chris: here? |
| 06:51 | nicomo joined #koha | |
| 06:56 | nicomo | hello everyone |
| 06:56 | Amit | heya nicomo, kf |
| 06:56 | nicomo | chris around? |
| 06:56 | Hi Amit | |
| 07:00 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 07:01 | hdl_laptop joined #koha | |
| 07:13 | js joined #koha | |
| 07:24 | Ropuch | Hm, I have trouble translating "mini-print". Can someone explain to me what is it? |
| 07:24 | |Lupin| joined #koha | |
| 07:24 | |Lupin| | hello |
| 07:25 | Ropuch | Hello |
| 07:25 | Is it just a "miniature graphic"? | |
| 07:26 | |Lupin|: do you know what is a "mini-print"? Small graphic or something else? | |
| 07:29 | |Lupin| | Ropuch: never heard about it before, sorry |
| 07:29 | Ropuch | I'm finishing opac translation and have some never-heard-of words ;> |
| 07:30 | nahuel joined #koha | |
| 07:30 | snail | Ropuch: you mean a thumbnail? |
| 07:31 | Ropuch: we need some context for the translation | |
| 07:34 | Ropuch | snail: i need context as well |
| 07:35 | It's 1009 entry in 3.00.02 opac .po file | |
| 07:36 | Nevermind, I've make my guess but marked it fuzzy | |
| 07:36 | s/make/made | |
| 07:37 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 07:39 | kf | Ropuch: context is a problem, but its much more difficult in staff with UNIMARC labels to translate |
| 07:40 | |Lupin| | guten tag kf |
| 07:40 | kf | guten morgen Lupin |
| 07:40 | Ropuch | kf: I won't argue, staff is next |
| 07:41 | ;> | |
| 07:41 | kf | I think I saw a patch to make xslt-files translatable in po-files - but cant find it right now |
| 07:42 | Ropuch: still fighting with a lot of typos and translation mistakes because of missing context, but I think its a process, getting slowly better with time after the initial translation | |
| 07:42 | paul_p | guten morgen germany. Good morning UK, Bonjour France ! |
| 07:42 | Ropuch | Hola! ;> |
| 07:43 | kf | bonjour paul |
| 07:43 | Ropuch | kf: main problem is the only other koha instalation i know of in Poland is a 2.2.x fork and don't use .po files |
| 07:43 | magnusenger | God morgen! |
| 07:45 | kf | chris seems to be asleep and I m working on my presentation on tuesday, someone here fit in koha history? |
| 07:46 | snail | kf: it's friday night here in .nz, all the people who know the history are drowning their sorrows |
| 07:47 | kf | huh. |
| 07:49 | js left #koha | |
| 07:51 | paul_p left #koha | |
| 07:56 | nahuel | hi all |
| 07:56 | Ropuch | hello, nahuel |
| 08:00 | js joined #koha | |
| 08:00 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 08:06 | kf | ok, question: we want to add a new index to index control-numbers in subfield $w which is used for linking between titles |
| 08:08 | we added our new index to bib1.att, record.abs and properties.ccl and it works with yaz but not in opac | |
| 08:08 | somebody an idea about this? or a hint where we can look? | |
| 08:08 | we use ICU indexing, if this is important | |
| 08:10 | hdl_laptop | kf you should launch zebra server with more verbose options so that in koha-zebradeamon logs, you can have the RPN query. |
| 08:11 | This would be the way I would do to diagnose the problem | |
| 08:11 | |Lupin| | kf: did you look whether there is a syspref that corresponds to your needs you have to activate ? |
| 08:12 | kf | Lupin: I think there are no configuration option for zebra indexing in the sysprefs |
| 08:12 | we tried adding the fields to the marc framework | |
| 08:12 | ah, something to add: the fields got indexed, because kw is working, but our name for the new index seems not to be known by koha | |
| 08:14 | hdl_laptop: thx for the suggestion, I will tell my colleague who is working on the problem to try this out | |
| 08:14 | laurence left #koha | |
| 08:14 | hdl_laptop | have you added that index to ccl.properties myindex 1=myindex ? |
| 08:16 | |Lupin| | kf: can't help -- overwhelmed, sorry |
| 08:16 | kf | hdl_laptop: give me a second, I will open the file |
| 08:21 | snail1 joined #koha | |
| 08:23 | kf | we hava indexname 1=1049 (z39.50 attribute for this index) |
| 08:28 | snail left #koha | |
| 08:34 | kf | ok, perhaps I found our mistake... thx hdl_laptop and |Lupin| |
| 08:34 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 08:39 | laurenc1 joined #koha | |
| 08:46 | laurence left #koha | |
| 08:47 | |Lupin| | nahuel: around ? |
| 08:47 | nahuel | Of course |
| 08:49 | |Lupin| | nahuel: hi :) |
| 08:50 | nahuel | hi |
| 08:50 | but it's cofee time | |
| 08:50 | |Lupin| | nahuel: I went through the code that parses the isbd syspref, yesterday, and find it a bit difficult to understand. Could you explain me a bit the way it works ? just intuitively ? |
| 08:50 | nahuel: np, take your coffee, we can discuss this afterwards | |
| 08:51 | nahuel | It's a bugged code :p Some user found this week a bug inside |
| 08:51 | But the big feature | |
| 08:51 | It parse line by line | |
| 08:51 | and replace [XXXcc] by the field XXX / subfield cc | |
| 08:51 | |Lupin| | right |
| 08:51 | nahuel | The more difficult to understand |
| 08:51 | |Lupin| | and each line has several fields separated by | ? |
| 08:52 | nahuel | Ouch, scuse it's isbd |
| 08:52 | :p | |
| 08:52 | I'm wrong | |
| 08:52 | this is for items summary | |
| 08:52 | well cofee time, and I'll explain you | |
| 08:52 | |Lupin| | nahuel: ok ! |
| 08:52 | nahuel: will be interested in the item summary thing, too | |
| 09:09 | nahuel | So |
| 09:09 | In french/private it's simpler | |
| 09:11 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 09:17 | anasha left #koha | |
| 09:28 | |Lupin| | yeah but less useful :) |
| 09:28 | maybe I shold write doc one day for that once I have understood it. | |
| 09:30 | chris | evening |
| 09:30 | kf: sorry i was having lunch, then drinks with some of the ex players from the nz rugby team, then more drinks | |
| 09:31 | do you still have a history question? | |
| 09:31 | kf | yes |
| 09:31 | some of them | |
| 09:32 | chris | i will try to answer them ... but disclaimer, i have been drinking beer since 12pm |
| 09:32 | kf | I will keep this in mind :) |
| 09:33 | ok, I m working on a shoert slide about the history of koha for my presentation | |
| 09:33 | 1. date work on koha begin, so that I can mention the birthday (which is also the day our patches got accepted : ) | |
| 09:34 | I think I got this right from other presentations and koha history and your article "how hard can it be" | |
| 09:35 | i think marc support and zebra were great milestones for the project? | |
| 09:35 | chris | yep |
| 09:35 | kf | were they sponsored by libraries? |
| 09:35 | and was 3.0.0 the first release with zebra support? | |
| 09:35 | chris | yes marc was sponsored by nelsonville public library |
| 09:35 | yes, it was the first release | |
| 09:35 | kf | was zebra also sponsored? |
| 09:36 | chris | but crawford county had been running from the dev_week branch for a while |
| 09:36 | partially, by crawford county | |
| 09:36 | jan 5 2000 is another important | |
| 09:36 | thats the day koha was turned on | |
| 09:37 | kf | ok, I will add this |
| 09:37 | I also have 21.06.2000 which I think was day it was released as open source? | |
| 09:38 | chris | that was the day we announced it |
| 09:39 | kf | ok. perhaps just reformulate it then |
| 09:41 | something else that should always be mentioned in context of history or community? | |
| 09:42 | I wanted to say that these features were sponsored to show how it can work - you see a good product you want to use and sponsor missing features | |
| 09:43 | chris | yep |
| 09:43 | hmmm | |
| 09:44 | i cant think of any features that werent sponsored actually | |
| 09:44 | kf | ok, this was a difficult question |
| 09:44 | chris | ie everything in koha, came from a request from a library |
| 09:44 | kf | ok, good point |
| 09:44 | chris | sometimes people code it for free |
| 09:45 | but the ideas always come from users | |
| 09:46 | Ropuch | Hello, chris |
| 09:47 | kf | so I can state that zebra was partially sponsort by crawford county library? |
| 09:49 | Ropuch | I've finished translating polish opac with 7 fuzzy entries |
| 09:50 | snail1 | Ropuch: well done |
| 09:52 | chris | excellent |
| 09:53 | kf: yep | |
| 09:53 | kf | chris: thx! you are always a great help and the history.txt is really great and was sure a lot of work |
| 09:54 | chris | :) |
| 09:54 | kf | interesting to see the dates for biblibre and liblime too |
| 09:55 | and found friedrich zur hellen - a German I know | |
| 09:57 | chris | yep, paul has been around koha for a long time and a major reason liblime exists |
| 09:57 | somewhere along the way joshua forgot this | |
| 09:58 | snail1 | bye all. bedtime for me. |
| 09:58 | snail1 left #koha | |
| 09:58 | chris | paul did the MARC support, which allowed NPL (who joshua worked for) to run koha |
| 10:02 | kf | ah |
| 10:02 | history goes strange ways sometimes | |
| 10:02 | chris | yes |
| 10:09 | kf | last question: new acq in 3.2 - sponsored by Bibliothèque/Mediathèque San Ouest Provence ? |
| 10:09 | chris | i think so, biblibre could answer that |
| 10:11 | hdl_laptop | kf yes |
| 10:11 | kf | thx hdl_laptop |
| 10:11 | hdl_laptop | gmcharlt: ILSDI modules doesnot comes out when checking out master branch. |
| 10:12 | Is the branch merged ? | |
| 10:12 | gmcharlt | hdl_laptop: not yet - i'll do that |
| 10:13 | hdl_laptop | But I saw a merge done on the repo with biblibre-sopac |
| 10:13 | This is why I asked. | |
| 10:14 | paul_p | kf: Nelsonville sponsored support for MARC in 2.0, and I did the job. It appeared then that my 100% mySQL structure was not correct for large databases. Thus zebra in 3.0 (in 2.2, perfs started to decrease after 2 or 300 000 biblios) |
| 10:14 | 'morning gmcharlt | |
| 10:15 | gmcharlt | hi paul_p |
| 10:15 | paul_p | (very early wake up !) |
| 10:15 | chris | paul_p: i watched the captains run of the nz and australian teams today (they play in wellington tomorrow) |
| 10:15 | gmcharlt | not that early, only 6:15 here - I'm practically sleeping in |
| 10:15 | chris | and had lunch with former all blacks |
| 10:16 | gmcharlt | hdl_laptop: you may have see a merge of master into biblibre-sopac, part of keeping the biblibre-sopac branch up to date |
| 10:16 | kf | paul_p: thx :) |
| 10:18 | hdl_laptop | gmcharlt: Then When will all those branches be merged with one an other ? |
| 10:18 | gmcharlt | some over this weekend |
| 10:18 | also, do you have patches for 3.2 for me to pull from the coderun this week? | |
| 10:24 | kf | paul_p: was it MARC21 and UNIMARC from the beginning? (2.0) |
| 10:24 | paul_p | kf: yep. But biblios only in 2.0, and biblios+authorities in 2.2 |
| 10:24 | |Lupin| | lunch time |
| 10:36 | kf | paul_p, chris, hdl_laptop: thx for history lesson :) community slide is next ;) |
| 10:57 | lunch time | |
| 11:34 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 11:58 | Amit | hi galen, jwagner |
| 11:58 | gmcharlt | hi Amit |
| 11:59 | jdavidb joined #koha | |
| 11:59 | jwagner | Hi Amit and gmcharlt |
| 12:05 | |Lupin| | hi Jane |
| 12:06 | jwagner | Hi |Lupin| |
| 12:06 | |Lupin| | question for you all, pls |
| 12:07 | for our library I'd need to modify the add-item feature so that the user has the ability to enter file names (for files located on her disk) | |
| 12:07 | when the item is added, I'd need o insert code to upload these files to a file server | |
| 12:07 | and then only modify the MARC record if the files could be successfully loaded | |
| 12:08 | I'm wondering how to do that | |
| 12:08 | hdl_laptop | you would have to build a plugin for that. |
| 12:08 | would prompt for dl | |
| 12:08 | |Lupin| | (the file names do not need to be stored in the MARC record... |
| 12:08 | hdl_laptop | then dl |
| 12:08 | and return the filename in order to store that. | |
| 12:09 | Colin left #koha | |
| 12:09 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: hmm... the problem with this solution is hat I guess it would require some javascript (wold it?) so that I could not even test it by myself... |
| 12:09 | hdl_laptop | mmm yes |
| 12:10 | but plugins are js only | |
| 12:10 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: I assume that even with the plugin approach the feature wold imply modificatons in the code of Koha ? |
| 12:10 | hdl_laptop | No. |
| 12:11 | Just adding a new plugin | |
| 12:11 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: ok... |
| 12:11 | hdl_laptop: but I thought plugins are necessarily bound to one MARC field... is that true ? | |
| 12:11 | hdl_laptop | user choice on which MARC field to bind. |
| 12:12 | For instance unimarc_4xx.pl you can use on any 4xx subfield | |
| 12:12 | same for all. | |
| 12:12 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: the problem is that in a way this plugin is not bound to any specific MARC field |
| 12:12 | or perhaps to unimarc 995 | |
| 12:12 | hdl_laptop | No. |
| 12:13 | it is just the usage and the name which makes you think that. | |
| 12:13 | |Lupin| | ok |
| 12:13 | hdl_laptop | linking other subfield than 210c to unimarc_210c plugin would be nonesense (in terms of librarian experience) |
| 12:14 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: right... |
| 12:15 | hdl_laptop: but to which field would the plugin have to be link in the present case ? | |
| 12:15 | hdl_laptop | the subfield you want to store the filename into |
| 12:16 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: no I don't want to store the filename in a subfield... |
| 12:17 | hdl_laptop: the only think I'm planning to store in the MARC biblio is that there are files available in a given format, ant then the ISBD view would include a link on a separate page giving the details for a format... | |
| 12:17 | hdl_laptop: but perhaps it would make things easier to just store the filenames in the MARC subfields... | |
| 12:21 | Nate joined #koha | |
| 12:21 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: after having filled-in item data, the user does Ia submit, I presume. So my idea was to change the page where the user arrives when submitting, so that the page presents a form to enter files, and then when the files are successfully, redirect to the original page... |
| 12:22 | chris_n | g'morning #koha |
| 12:22 | |Lupin| | am I clear ? :) |
| 12:22 | paul_p | hi chris_n |
| 12:22 | Nate | good morning ladies and gents! |
| 12:22 | |Lupin| | hi Nate |
| 12:22 | hi chris_n | |
| 12:22 | Nate | hello hello |
| 12:23 | chris_n | hi Nate |
| 12:23 | Nate | hey chris_n |
| 12:23 | hdl_laptop | |Lupin|: workflow changes are hard to maintain with current infrastructure. |
| 12:24 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: ok. |
| 12:25 | * chris_n | thinks it is funny that he asked for an enhancement request he should have known was already there :-P |
| 12:25 | chris_n | must need a memory upgrade |
| 12:26 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: so you see no other way than plugin ? The situation looks rather complex to me not knowing js and not being able to test by myself in good conditions... |
| 12:27 | hdl_laptop: any advice ? | |
| 12:27 | (or others) | |
| 12:27 | chris_n | off to change the gpu fan in my laptop, bbiab |
| 12:27 | chris_n left #koha | |
| 12:28 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: perhaps I could replace the whole addbiblio script by my own ? |
| 12:29 | hdl_laptop | |Lupin|: this would be a HELL to maintain for you. |
| 12:29 | (or anyone else when you leave) | |
| 12:30 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: hmm this part is so specific... |
| 12:30 | hdl_laptop | Adding an uri link to an item or a subfield doesnot look so terribly specific |
| 12:31 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: it's not that part... it's the fact that the file has to be puloaded to the server where Koha is and then ransferred to another fileserver where it will stay permanently |
| 12:32 | Amit left #koha | |
| 12:33 | jwagner | framework question for folks -- I'm dealing with really crappy MARC data, nonexistant fixed fields, etc. I've had to turn off the "mandatory" settings for 005 and 008 until such time as they can do some cleanup. However, the 245a is still set as mandatory. The records do have a 245 subfield a, so why do I get an error when trying to save one? "Field 245 is mandatory, at least one of its subfields must be filled." I checked, and subfield a is the onl |
| 12:36 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 12:36 | jdavidb | Mornin', schuster. :) |
| 12:41 | paul_p | good morning USA ! |
| 12:42 | jdavidb | Good morning, paul! :) |
| 12:43 | schuster | Morning Paul - Just saw you on my computer as I'm digitizing the Database structures video from KohaCon. I hope to be able to go home tonight with several videos to upload to the internet archive. |
| 12:44 | Oh and Mornin' to ya buckaroo - jdavidb | |
| 12:45 | * jdavidb | is about ready to quit admitting he is a Texan, based on the news from down there--and the way it is viewed up here. |
| 12:47 | jwagner | Does that mean you're abandoning the Texas embassy? |
| 12:48 | jdavidb | It may be time. Maybe we oughta let TX secede. Give 'em a year or two, so that all the wierdos and nutjobs elsewhere in the country will move there, *then* chop it off. |
| 12:50 | jwagner | Only if we can send Virginia with it. I'm SO glad I finally got moved out of Virginia & don't have to deal with VA politics any more. Of course, we still get all the election commercials on TV, but at least I can now ignore them in good conscience. |
| 12:50 | jdavidb | I finally quit reading the paper online from the town I moved out of...every time I did, I just had to roll my eyes a lot at them...so I quit. |
| 12:51 | Hey, schuster: Got a question for you...offhand, do you know what percentage of PISD's high school teachers have masters or doctorate degrees? | |
| 12:51 | classroom teachers, mind, not out-of-class specialists. | |
| 12:53 | schuster | Not off hand, but I suspect a very high percentage as the district offers Masters in Education to classroom teachers - you get a passing grade the district pays. North Texas actually uses the Sockwell Center on weekends and evenings to provide the classes. |
| 12:54 | jdavidb | In Abilene, it was a low enough number that Lindsey had no such teachers. Here, four out of seven do, and everyone seems to think that's pretty normal. |
| 12:54 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 12:54 | schuster | Dr Otto the super - teachs Doctoral classes too but I don't believe there are many in those classes - 8=10. |
| 12:55 | jdavidb | The principal at Lindsey's school is an EdD. Nice guy, too, and the kids like him a lot. |
| 12:55 | schuster | jdavidb I think that shows when you are in a more metro area - higher paying jobs attract and require higher levels of degrees. Dallas ISD actually pays more for doctorals, I don't believe Plano does. |
| 12:55 | You might get an additional $500 - but the district wouldn't pay you to get it. | |
| 12:56 | That highly qualified business. | |
| 12:56 | jdavidb | *nod* The school funding is very, very different here, and counties==districts. Montgomery County MD is one district all by itself. |
| 12:56 | And unlike TX ISDs, there is a bit of tie-in between the county govt and the schools. | |
| 12:56 | schuster | and you were talking about WEST Texas... I had a great slam here, but decides not to use it. |
| 12:57 | That's why we are called ISD - independant... Plano actually cross' two counties, and 5 cities. | |
| 12:57 | jdavidb | Another things, and I *like* this: tax money doesn't pay for extracurriculars, very much at all. Travel for contests and such are paid-for a la carte, or through a foundation. The parents association operates a 501c3 foundation for those purposes. |
| 12:58 | Since our high school's foundation is particularly prosperous, they also have been known, in recent years, to chip in to send teachers to conferences and continuing-ed above and beyond what MCPS pays for. | |
| 13:00 | But you don't have a choir program that can't get music, while a football program has gold-plated gear. If students wanna do those activities, they help fund-raise, and take some ownership of the program. At the high school level, particularly, I think that's a great idea. | |
| 13:01 | (Slam West Texas all you want. I will admit that I came from a Congressional district that elected a "birther.") | |
| 13:07 | hdl_laptop | jwagner: I think this error was fixed bu nahuel on 3.0.x |
| 13:07 | owen joined #koha | |
| 13:07 | nahuel | hdl_laptop, which one ? |
| 13:07 | hdl_laptop | cataloguing |
| 13:07 | schuster | Plano ISD has a very large Educational Foundation for that as well - and here students pay to go places. They must have been RobinHood reapers where here in Plano we are the payers... $140 million 2 years ago. |
| 13:08 | OK back to work before I get into trouble! | |
| 13:08 | * jdavidb | chuckles. |
| 13:08 | hdl_laptop | when field marked mandatory, then mistakenly expects all the subfields to be filled |
| 13:13 | rhcl_out | North to Nebraska...Project Pioneer |
| 13:13 | jwagner | nahuel, hdl_laptop, the system is at 3.01.00.058 -- is the fix later than that? |
| 13:14 | hdl_laptop | I would have to dive into patches. |
| 13:14 | nahuel | jwagner, iirc it's later |
| 13:15 | jwagner | I think so -- I just unchecked the mandatory setting on the 245 field, but left the subfield a as mandatory, & it then let me save the same record. Thanks. At least I wasn't totally losing my mind :-) |
| 13:18 | nahuel | :p |
| 13:21 | kf | somebody knows what a 'Textbook management type module?' does? |
| 13:21 | schuster: still here? :) | |
| 13:25 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 13:26 | * chris_n | 's laptop breaths easier now |
| 13:27 | schuster | Yes... |
| 13:28 | When a student registers for classes - they would be issued the books for those classes that they are taking. | |
| 13:28 | By law public schools are required to provide textbooks for students - in CA they actually have to PROVE that a student has said books for said classes. | |
| 13:29 | There are lots of things that go into it - some items that are "assigned out" are consumable workbooks so you don't want to barcode them, but you need to issue them. | |
| 13:30 | Teacher editions where there are 7 parts but it is pretty hard to barcode manipulative math pieces. | |
| 13:30 | Just a whole lot that I don't get the whole picture. I did see that LibLime was working on "barcodeless" checkout. | |
| 13:35 | kf | ah |
| 13:35 | schuster: thx for the explanation! | |
| 13:35 | chris_n | schuster: I think the textbook enh is an excellent idea |
| 13:36 | our academy uses some text books which are out of print and it would be nice to track them that way | |
| 13:41 | jdavidb | The hairiest part, maybe, is the consumable-item bit. Need to keep a record (for the whole academic year, presumably) that we gave Joe Math Teacher the workbook for his class, but at the end of the year, keep a record that we did it, and not the item record itself. |
| 13:46 | chris_n | maybe similar to discarding a book |
| 13:46 | jdavidb | Possibly. Could use item types to differentiate them, then automate the process somehow. |
| 13:47 | It would be like discarding a copy; unless the textbook changed for the subsequent year, you'd wanna keep the bib. | |
| 13:49 | Aside from the thorny problem of "The MARC record can't hold all those items," then, maybe it wouldn't be too hard. A couple of mass-manipulation scripts, and some specialized report. | |
| 14:00 | Colin left #koha | |
| 14:01 | schuster | Not to mention some MASS adding of barcodes - 50 at the same time sequential - specified duedates for item types - anything with this item type would be due Oct 15th end of 6 weeks, anything with item type TX2 would be due Dec 18th anything with itemtype TXA would be due May 18 2010 etc... |
| 14:01 | Hmmm I see a use for that last part now - off to the bug database. | |
| 14:10 | owen | A very serious bug has come to light here at NPL, I wonder if anyone else is experiencing it too |
| 14:10 | When we check in items, the "holding branch" information is not being updated | |
| 14:11 | So an item checked in at the Nelsonville branch shows that its current location is the Athens branch | |
| 14:11 | That means our holds queue reports are incorrect, and no one knows where to look for something they find in the catalog | |
| 14:11 | jdavidb | That's a nasty behavior, owen... |
| 14:11 | owen | Yup |
| 14:12 | schuster | Yep we saw that too - related to when you check in a lost item it wouldn't update the status to available as well. |
| 14:12 | runs to check and see if we got a patch to fix both of those issues. | |
| 14:12 | owen | schuster: I was aware of that issue, but I thought that was limited to status changes |
| 14:14 | schuster | still have this issue even with the patch for lost. |
| 14:15 | owen | schuster: can you clarify? |
| 14:16 | schuster | no matter what you check in - it doesn't put it in transit it leaves it there at the location that was set. I think this bug was introduced to the .32 release. |
| 14:16 | 3.1.00032 that is. | |
| 14:17 | Before when we checked in a lost item it wouldn't update the status from Lost to Available. I fussed because we were using lost status 2 for items from the processing center so that when they checked them in at the school they would go available. | |
| 14:17 | owen | Sheesh, that means we've been living with this bug since June? I can't believe no one here has noticed until now :( |
| 14:18 | schuster | I believe LL did a patch to fix that for us, but I didn't pursue the location change issue at that time. |
| 14:18 | owen | It's going to take a long time (or a system-wide inventory) to sort this out...assuming the bug can be fixed. |
| 14:18 | schuster | We went from .18 to .32 in August and that is when I noticed it. |
| 14:18 | owen | Our last update (according to LibLime's update messages) was in June, and we're at .32 as well. |
| 14:18 | schuster | System wide inventory - yes, but you need some type of report of the scanned items that they are at the wrong location. |
| 14:19 | Inventory is on my wish list for enhancement development. | |
| 14:19 | LOTS of inventory development. | |
| 14:19 | But I had other pressing items that I needed first. | |
| 14:20 | Sorry to deliver the bad new, just didn't have a chance to log it as a bug yet. | |
| 14:20 | owen | Yeah, for the imaginary future when sponsoring something will actually get it added to your system. |
| 14:20 | schuster | not going there right now...;) |
| 14:20 | Wizzyrea_ joined #koha | |
| 14:20 | owen | Hey, at least it'll be added to MY system! :D |
| 14:20 | Wizzyrea_ | hi peps |
| 14:20 | schuster | smacks owen virtually through the terminal... |
| 14:20 | * owen | deserved that |
| 14:20 | jdavidb | Hi, Wizzyrea_ |
| 14:21 | schuster | peps - or peeps |
| 14:21 | Wizzyrea_ | peppy peeps |
| 14:21 | peps | |
| 14:21 | ;) | |
| 14:21 | owen | Wizzyrea_: I'm curious whether you're affected by the bug schuster and I have just been chatting about |
| 14:21 | schuster | Wizzyrea may not be aware of owens last comments... Do we need to send you some marshmellows? |
| 14:21 | gmcharlt | just so long as it's not Pepys |
| 14:21 | digging him up would be gross | |
| 14:21 | Wizzyrea_ | umm |
| 14:21 | which bug? | |
| 14:21 | schuster | no matter what you check in - it doesn't put it in transit it leaves it there at the location that was set. I think this bug was introduced to the .32 release. |
| 14:22 | Wizzyrea_ | i believe we WERE affected by that |
| 14:22 | but... | |
| 14:22 | owen | So check in a Branch A item at Branch B, and it still says it's being held at Branch A. |
| 14:22 | Wizzyrea_ | I think maybe atz fixed it before he left? |
| 14:22 | or maybe ryan? | |
| 14:22 | but it may only be on our system | |
| 14:22 | :( | |
| 14:23 | schuster | Ah yes the "only on our system patch"... |
| 14:23 | Wonders how to get that as well... After making the stink about the Lost patch for 2 weeks. | |
| 14:23 | Wizzyrea_ | well... perhaps a reminder on the "focus on support" is in order |
| 14:23 | schuster | Wizzyrea - would you verify you have it working correctly as the "lost" patch didn't fix it. |
| 14:23 | Wizzyrea_ | </snark> |
| 14:24 | schuster | I heard that all the way down here. |
| 14:24 | Wizzyrea_ | lemme check, but that's one we'd hear about right away if it were broken, I don't think it si |
| 14:24 | is* | |
| 14:25 | * Wizzyrea_ | is looking back through her email... |
| 14:25 | schuster | On a side note - regarding software Foundations - did people read Vicki's post? - Software Freedom Conservancy's [3] offer to serve? |
| 14:26 | Wizzyrea_ | bug 3288 or bug 3270 |
| 14:26 | munin` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3288 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt gmail.com, NEW, Transit prompt not immediately triggered after hold is canceled |
| 14:26 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3270 major, P5, ---, gmcharltgmail.com, NEW, Cancelling a hold request after transfer initiated orphans item |
|
| 14:26 | schuster | schuster needs to get to other things or it will be 4 pm and non of the videos will get posted over the weekend from KohaCon09 |
| 14:27 | jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting | |
| 14:27 | Wizzyrea_ | either of those schuster/ |
| 14:27 | ? | |
| 14:27 | chris_n | schuster: I saw that |
| 14:27 | looks like another interesting alternative | |
| 14:27 | schuster | But wizzyrea - those deal specifically with holds - these are general - checkin branch A doesn't put it in transit back to branch B where it is the home location. |
| 14:28 | Wizzyrea_ | i'm wondering if it's the same behavior though, just not in context of holds |
| 14:28 | let me look more | |
| 14:28 | schuster | Do you have a book in your office you can checkin that belongs to another location? |
| 14:28 | fastest way to tell. :0 | |
| 14:29 | Wizzyrea_ | ok I just checked, we have this problem right now |
| 14:29 | yes, we are affected | |
| 14:30 | magnusenger left #koha | |
| 14:30 | Wizzyrea_ | bug 3536 |
| 14:30 | munin` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3536 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharltgmail.com, NEW, Checked In item requiring transfer does not consistently trigger transfer prompt |
| 14:31 | schuster | Sees Wizzyrea running down the hallway screaming... |
| 14:32 | Wizzyrea_ | lol |
| 14:32 | schuster | owen already did it. |
| 14:32 | Wizzyrea_ | HA |
| 14:32 | nah, i'm philosophical about it | |
| 14:32 | lots of people looking, it'll get fixed soon. | |
| 14:32 | oh wait | |
| 14:32 | * Wizzyrea_ | runs down the hallway screaming |
| 14:33 | schuster | Thanks needed to confirm the screaming. |
| 14:33 | owen | Don't worry Wizzyrea_, the 3.4 update will be just around the corner, and you'll get your fix then. |
| 14:34 | schuster | Oh and I'll get my development! |
| 14:34 | Sorry couldn't resist. | |
| 14:34 | Wizzyrea_ | and there will be ponieartys at everybody's birthday p |
| 14:34 | birthday party* | |
| 14:34 | ponies at everybody's birthday party | |
| 14:34 | sheesh | |
| 14:35 | schuster | You got the ponies? |
| 14:35 | Wizzyrea_ | nah, our vendor has the ponies, remember? |
| 14:35 | gmcharlt | anybody got the source code to the ponies? |
| 14:35 | Wizzyrea_ | git pull pony |
| 14:35 | wow, that was funny on multiple levels | |
| 14:36 | * Wizzyrea_ | snickers in the corner |
| 14:37 | Wizzyrea_ | sorry gmcharlt, it looks like that's proprietary |
| 14:37 | proprietary ponies | |
| 14:37 | now I've heard everything | |
| 14:38 | gmcharlt | sadly, with DNA patents, that could literally be the case |
| 14:39 | Wizzyrea_ | frowny |
| 14:39 | ponies are meant to be free! | |
| 14:42 | owen | kf around? |
| 14:46 | chris_n | hehe |
| 14:47 | kf | kf: phone |
| 14:48 | * |Lupin| | thinks kf meant |
| 14:48 | |Lupin| | owen: phone |
| 14:49 | schuster | I interpreted that as KF was on the phone.. |
| 14:50 | owen | yeah, I don't think kf was telling kf that kf is on the phone. |
| 14:50 | kf | owen: lupin is right, on the phone, will ping you after that? |
| 14:50 | owen | Yup :) |
| 14:50 | Certainly. Affirmative. | |
| 14:50 | Wizzyrea_ | you just made him type all that out. *sigh* |
| 14:50 | owen | Her. |
| 14:51 | Wizzyrea_ | her |
| 14:51 | sorry | |
| 14:51 | owen | Geeze Wizzyrea_, always with the sexism. |
| 14:51 | Just because you're a big manly programmer-dude. | |
| 14:51 | * Wizzyrea_ | tries to think of something witty to say without denigrating herself... nope, not possible |
| 14:51 | Wizzyrea_ | oh ya |
| 14:51 | with my nice girly name | |
| 14:51 | owen | :) |
| 14:51 | Wizzyrea_ | I have an identity crisis |
| 14:53 | owen | http://www.mediabistro.com/gal[…]_136125.asp?c=rss |
| 14:53 | If that's true, it means our default link to BookFinder.com conflicts with Amazon's terms of use. | |
| 14:54 | SelfishMan left #koha | |
| 14:57 | chris_n | amazon-- # for coercion |
| 14:57 | owen | (e) You will not, without our express prior written approval requested via this link , use any Product Advertising Content on or in connection with any site or application designed or intended for use with a mobile phone or other handheld device. |
| 14:57 | Does that mean we can't design a mobile version of the OPAC which includes Amazon covers? | |
| 14:58 | Wizzyrea_ | owen I believe that is what they say |
| 14:58 | mean | |
| 14:59 | of course that's what they say... I believe that is the intent. My brain is not quite yet engaged | |
| 15:00 | owen | "(q) If you display Product Advertising Content consisting of text on your application, you will include the following disclaimer in plain view to end-users of your application: "CERTAIN CONTENT THAT APPEARS [IN THIS APPLICATION or ON THIS SITE, as applicable] COMES FROM AMAZON SERVICES LLC. THIS CONTENT IS PROVIDED ‘AS IS’ AND IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE OR REMOVAL AT ANY TIME." |
| 15:00 | We're not doing that either... | |
| 15:02 | collum joined #koha | |
| 15:06 | Wizzyrea_ | ok we had a harebrained idea |
| 15:08 | we are thinking about the system preferences... it would be cool if the sysprefs were tagged (potentially multiply tagged) with what kind of library would use it | |
| 15:08 | so something like what schuster proposed, static item type due dates | |
| 15:08 | gmcharlt | Wizzyrea_: indeed |
| 15:08 | Wizzyrea_ | would be tagged academic |
| 15:08 | gmcharlt | there's a lot of metadata we could apply to sysprefs |
| 15:08 | including whether syspref is used in staff, OPAC, or both | |
| 15:09 | Wizzyrea_ | yes |
| 15:09 | so you could concieveably search prefs based on these (potentially user defined?) tags | |
| 15:10 | "I only want to see preferences for the Intranet that have to do with CSS | |
| 15:10 | tag intranet, css | |
| 15:11 | <list> | |
| 15:11 | squee! | |
| 15:13 | SelfishMan joined #koha | |
| 15:13 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 15:15 | Wizzyrea_ | ph, hi |
| 15:17 | collum | gmcharlt: I have tweaked compact.xsl so that showmarc.pl?viewas=card displays xhtml instead of html |
| 15:17 | my question is bug 2651 | |
| 15:17 | munin` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2651 major, P3, ---, jmfliblime.com, NEW, showmarc tries (and fails) to use a non-existant OPAC css file from the STAFF side |
| 15:17 | collum | the nonexistent css file |
| 15:18 | should I remove the link in compact.xsl (being lazy) or should I create a placeholder css file? | |
| 15:18 | owen | collum: The display looks as expected? If so then I say remove the link |
| 15:18 | gmcharlt | I agree with owen |
| 15:19 | collum | Will do. I'll take the easy approach. |
| 15:25 | jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner | |
| 15:28 | pianohacker | Hi, liz |
| 15:32 | |Lupin| | hey Jesse |
| 15:32 | pianohacker | Hi, |Lupin| |
| 15:35 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 15:39 | paul_p left #koha | |
| 15:41 | kf | owen: sorry, very long phone call - discussing my slided for tuesday |
| 15:41 | chris_n | hi pianohacker |
| 15:42 | pianohacker | Hi, chris_n |
| 15:42 | chris_n | Wizzyrea_: we could catalog sysprefs using marc and then have zebra index them... ;-) |
| 15:43 | owen | kf, nothing that important, I was just reading through the IRC log and saw you were asking about Koha history |
| 15:43 | kf | owen: yes, for my presentation |
| 15:43 | pianohacker | Oh, but handcoding search engines in Perl is so much fun |
| 15:43 | kf | owen: something you want to add? .) |
| 15:43 | :) | |
| 15:44 | owen | Particularly the history of the addition of zebra to Koha. I don't think you can point to any one sponsor for that. So many people donated their time on that project |
| 15:44 | It was an interesting case of, "This really needs to be done to help Koha, so everyone should help." | |
| 15:44 | Wizzyrea_ | >.< you could use the existing tagging engine |
| 15:44 | owen | At least that was my impression. |
| 15:45 | I'm not trying to take credit away from anyone, but to point out that it came about in an interesting way | |
| 15:46 | laurenc1 left #koha | |
| 15:47 | kf | owen: thx, will change to many libraries then :) |
| 15:47 | just wanted to add sponsorship to tell people that libraries have influence | |
| 15:48 | need to talk to my boss now, crazy day here today | |
| 15:49 | nahuel left #koha | |
| 15:54 | Nate left #koha | |
| 16:02 | stephaniechase joined #koha | |
| 16:06 | stephaniechase left #koha | |
| 16:17 | owen | stephaniechase, come back! |
| 16:21 | Ropuch | When I'm sending a patch, should I include it in mail body or attach it/ |
| 16:24 | owen | Ropuch: If you're not using git, then I think attaching it is good |
| 16:25 | Ropuch | Well, I'm using git and try to follow http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]lopment:git_usage |
| 16:25 | but I don't have smptp configured | |
| 16:26 | js left #koha | |
| 16:26 | Ropuch | s/smptp/smtp |
| 16:26 | owen | Yeah, so if git send-email won't work then I think attach it. |
| 16:26 | Ropuch | Ok, I'll try |
| 16:31 | Should include bug no in commit msg/ | |
| 16:31 | owen | Yes |
| 16:31 | pianohacker | Ropuch: Yes |
| 16:49 | nicomo left #koha | |
| 17:07 | kf | time to go home - bye #koha! |
| 17:08 | kf left #koha | |
| 17:12 | Wizzyrea_ left #koha | |
| 17:20 | Colin left #koha | |
| 17:45 | |Lupin| left #koha | |
| 18:06 | cait joined #koha | |
| 18:13 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 18:13 | indradg left #koha | |
| 18:17 | schuster | Off to visit with the executive director... |
| 18:32 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 18:36 | chris | morning |
| 18:36 | owen | Hi chris |
| 18:36 | pianohacker | Good morning |
| 18:36 | brb | |
| 18:36 | pianohacker left #koha | |
| 18:38 | owen | items.onloan gets updated with, what--the check-out date, on check-out? |
| 18:38 | jwagner | Morning, chris |
| 18:39 | snail joined #koha | |
| 18:42 | owen | Is anyone working on a temporary records feature? |
| 18:44 | chris | owen: onloan gets the date_due |
| 18:44 | owen | Thanks chris |
| 18:45 | chris | what are temporary records used for? |
| 18:45 | jwagner | owen, in what sense of temporary? We have a "fast adds" feature for things that don't have records, but they're meant to be fleshed out properly later. |
| 18:45 | The fast add is just so someone can create a skeleton record to check it out. | |
| 18:46 | owen | Our previous system had a temp record feature where you could add a minimal record on the fly at checkout, then the record would disappear on check-in. |
| 18:46 | jwagner | Maybe similar to Unicorn's ephemeral one? I never worked with that so I don't remember specifics. |
| 18:47 | owen | My preference would be to be able to create a temp record via the cataloging interface so that one could put a hold on it |
| 18:47 | ...but then when the last item got checked in the bib would self-destruct | |
| 18:48 | jwagner | Like a new framework with limited fields, for example? I've been working on a couple of those for one site, e.g. an ILL record. Only the bare minimum of fields and everything on one tab. They don't self-destruct, though. |
| 18:48 | owen | Exactly, an ILL record. That's the very thing I want to self-destruct. |
| 18:49 | My staff doesn't seem to be capable of deleting them after the items are returned. | |
| 18:49 | jwagner | Would be a nifty feature. Maybe a special itype of EPHEMERAL or something, and everything with that itype auto-deletes both the item & title at checkin. |
| 18:49 | owen | So of course I'm looking for a technological problem for a staff issue. |
| 18:49 | problem->solution | |
| 18:49 | jwagner | Creating the stripped down workform was a bear, but I did use a lot of authorized values to pre-fill fields & limit entries. |
| 18:50 | Wizzyrea_ joined #koha | |
| 18:51 | chris | owen: do you want it to delete straight away, or would it be ok to prompt on check-in ? |
| 18:52 | owen | I guess you'd probably have to do the prompt, just in case you checked in by mistake or something. |
| 18:53 | I'm not sure how you'd handle statistics for that kind of transaction... | |
| 18:53 | jwagner | Our fast add feature adds a staff note in bright red letters saying something like "route to cataloging" & that shows when the item is checked in. Maybe adapt that idea & make it say "ILL item -- delete from catalog" or something? |
| 18:53 | owen | You wouldn't be able to track down itype/ccode for all those items that disappeared. |
| 18:54 | jwagner | What kind of barcode do you use for ILLs? Maybe a ILLnnnnn barcode, & run stats for all those that match ILL*? Don't know if the barcode lives on in the stats logs. I think it does, after the item is deleted, doesn't it? |
| 18:56 | chris | lemme check |
| 18:56 | * owen | doesn't think so |
| 18:56 | jwagner | Or probably safer to use an item type that's only limited to this purpose, then have checkin look for anything with that itype. |
| 18:57 | chris | nope |
| 18:57 | we store itemnumber, not barcode in the statistics table | |
| 18:57 | jwagner | So no stats possible. Oh well. |
| 18:58 | Wizzyrea_ | ooh, jwagner, don't tell a librarian "no stats possible, oh well" |
| 18:58 | because that might incite them to violence | |
| 18:58 | at least it would in our system | |
| 18:58 | :) | |
| 18:59 | jwagner | I've known a few of those librarians myself. Time to duck! |
| 19:00 | chris | well it is if you store the deleted item in the deleted_items table |
| 19:00 | then you can join to that via itemnumber | |
| 19:00 | an still get your stats | |
| 19:00 | owen | True |
| 19:01 | Koha needs better means for regular staff to access info about deleted stuff in general. | |
| 19:01 | It'd be useful to be able to scan a deleted barcode and request info about the deleted record. | |
| 19:03 | chris | we used to have that, it was called catalogue maintenance |
| 19:03 | you could undelete too | |
| 19:03 | it'll come back, HLT are sponsoring it | |
| 19:04 | owen | that's good news |
| 19:04 | That feature got lost so long ago I never really saw it working. | |
| 19:04 | chris | yeah |
| 19:05 | that blog post from karen schneider is a good read | |
| 19:05 | http://freerangelibrarian.com/[…]ource-leadership/ | |
| 19:05 | jwagner | Will it be something that you have to specially ask to search? It annoys me now that if you're under Cataloging, the search automatically includes all the reservoir items. |
| 19:06 | chris | its a special search, not by default |
| 19:06 | probably will live under tools | |
| 19:06 | maybe | |
| 19:06 | owen | chris: This whole "Libraries are getting the stick when if comes to future Koha direction" really is a red herring |
| 19:07 | jdavidb | chris: Thanks for the link...that is a good read. |
| 19:08 | pianohackr|work joined #koha | |
| 19:09 | chris | yeah, it is indeed owen |
| 19:09 | hm i thought i had some screen shots of hte old catalogue maintenance here http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…].php?g2_itemId=12 | |
| 19:09 | but nope | |
| 19:12 | owen: maybe its true for libraries who chose not to participate .... | |
| 19:13 | owen | ...in which case they're grabbing that stick all on their own. |
| 19:14 | jdavidb | I was *soooo* tempted to join Twitter just over that, so I could reply, "the poll is about the foundation, not about the software, knucklehead!" But I resisted, and meditated instead. |
| 19:15 | chris | owen: agree entirely |
| 19:16 | last night when chatting with kf, i was struggling to find a feature that wasnt developed in direct response to a libraries wishes, zebra was probably the most indirect one, but even that came out of a desire for better search by librarians | |
| 19:16 | nicomo joined #koha | |
| 19:17 | cait | :) |
| 19:17 | owen | Zebra is a good example of a feature that couldn't have been directly requested by librarians because they wouldn't have known what to ask for. |
| 19:18 | chris | *nod*, better searching was asked for though |
| 19:18 | jdavidb | Howdy, nicomo. Thanks for your note on facebook; I replied just now. |
| 19:20 | Wizzyrea_ | well they knew to ask for "better search" |
| 19:20 | who better to leave those decisions to than developers? | |
| 19:20 | accomplishing the goal and setting the goal are two different activities | |
| 19:22 | chris | i think we should have formed a committee to form a subcommittee then seek carnegie funding, write specs for 3 years........... |
| 19:23 | * Wizzyrea_ | starts to cry |
| 19:25 | chris | there's no crying on fridays :) |
| 19:26 | Wizzyrea_ | saturday for you! |
| 19:26 | chris | yep |
| 19:26 | getting bunk beds delivered today | |
| 19:26 | Wizzyrea_ | seeing that description of committees and subcommittees makes me feel like a giant weight or a shadow is hovering over me |
| 19:28 | * jdavidb | nominates Wizzyrea_ to the Committee on Committees. (I was appalled when I found out that the Southern Baptist Convention has such a construct.) |
| 19:29 | Wizzyrea_ | nooooo |
| 19:31 | jdavidb | Maybe we need one for the Foundation! |
| 19:32 | owen | That's where we'll put troublemakers |
| 19:34 | * jdavidb | nominates Ben Ide as Chair for Life. Wizzy will be the parliamentarian, with the job of spy-to-the-people-who-do-the-real-work. |
| 19:40 | * chris_n | thinks that there is a certain element of independence that contributes directly to the survival of successful FOSS like Koha; committees and librarian overseership, etc. would probably pour water on that fire imho |
| 19:44 | Wizzyrea_ | ok, stick with me here: one of the reasons librarians like open source is that we are "in control" of how things can work |
| 19:44 | chris_n | micromanagement-- |
| 19:44 | Wizzyrea_ | i.e. the software can conform to the workflow instead of the other way around |
| 19:44 | chris | too_much_governance-- |
| 19:45 | Wizzyrea_ | I think there is the *percecption* of certain folks that just because another library does it a different way, that's not "listening to librarians" |
| 19:45 | when in fact | |
| 19:45 | it's exactly how it should be... for the commissioning library | |
| 19:45 | chris | yep |
| 19:45 | chris_n | in Beekeeping it is often said: 5 beekeepers = 10 opinions |
| 19:45 | bbiab | |
| 19:45 | owen | Wizzyrea_: Good point |
| 19:46 | nicomo | well, I'm going to micromanage my week-end starting just now |
| 19:46 | see you all on monday at the latest | |
| 19:46 | :-) | |
| 19:46 | owen | And if that's the case, we've got a serious communication problem going on because no one is actually *saying* that |
| 19:46 | chris | hehe have a good weekend |
| 19:46 | nicomo left #koha | |
| 19:46 | Wizzyrea_ | ...well I suppose I should say it |
| 19:46 | owen | Wizzyrea_: That's not what I mean |
| 19:47 | I mean, the people who think that Koha isn't librarian-driven aren't explaining that they think so because things don't work the way they think it should | |
| 19:47 | Wizzyrea_ | AHH |
| 19:47 | I misunderstood sorry | |
| 19:48 | snail | I don't suppose anyone has experience cataloguing multi-format electronic full-text resources? |
| 19:48 | * chris | runs |
| 19:48 | Wizzyrea_ | wowie there's the question of the day |
| 19:48 | owen | I had a painful conversation once with a librarian from another system who dripped with contempt for Koha because it didn't work the way she thought it should. |
| 19:48 | * cait | is right behind chris |
| 19:49 | snail | i'm trying to translate "don't put 'click here' in the 710 field" into cataloguer-speak and clearly failing |
| 19:49 | Wizzyrea_ | I think it's the promise of open source that ultimately we can have it work pretty close to the way librarians want it to in most institutions |
| 19:50 | but i'm an optimist | |
| 19:50 | jdavidb left #koha | |
| 19:50 | Wizzyrea_ | (and if it doesn't work how you think it should, hire someone to help you make it so) |
| 19:51 | that said, no system is a fit for every library | |
| 19:52 | jwagner left #koha | |
| 19:54 | pianohackr|work | Based on my reading of some of the opinions coming out, I'm more than a bit afraid some will think a "librarian-led foundation" will mean "we can order the development of this feature and it will happen" |
| 19:55 | owen | Right, or, "if enough of us vote for this feature someone will do it for us for free" |
| 19:55 | pianohackr|work | owen: Exactly |
| 19:55 | snail | pianohackr|work: there are always some who are looking for a free ride |
| 19:55 | pianohackr|work | I think software based on the needs of its users is excellent, don't get me wrong |
| 19:57 | chris | i thnk a lot of the time people get "what it should do" and "how it should do it" mixed up |
| 19:57 | cait | good night #koha |
| 19:57 | pianohackr|work | Good night |
| 19:57 | chris | night cait |
| 19:58 | cait | night chris |
| 19:58 | cait left #koha | |
| 19:58 | chris | and focus not on what the goal is, but rather on the way the system they were used to before tried to get to that goal |
| 19:58 | pianohackr|work | Horizon users seem especially bad about that |
| 19:59 | Some sort of stockholm's syndrome | |
| 19:59 | chris | its not confined to libraries either |
| 19:59 | hmm this is my 15th year doing software development | |
| 19:59 | its a rare client how can explain what they want to achieve | |
| 20:00 | how=who | |
| 20:00 | that vital 'why' bit | |
| 20:01 | pianohackr|work | Yeah. About 99% percent of the time, when a librarian at my library asks for a given feature, I have to ask "why do you want this" |
| 20:01 | chris | *nod* |
| 20:01 | pianohackr|work | usually means less work for me and a better feature for them (when I do it right) |
| 20:01 | Wizzyrea_ | do you get answers? |
| 20:01 | chris | usually |
| 20:01 | it takes a while tho | |
| 20:01 | and pianohackr|work is right, a much better feature results | |
| 20:02 | cos you actually attempt to solve the problem | |
| 20:02 | Wizzyrea_ | a similar and parallel question is "what are you trying to do" |
| 20:02 | chris | yep |
| 20:02 | Wizzyrea_ | because maybe their workflow is the problem, not the software |
| 20:02 | chris | exacterly |
| 20:02 | Wizzyrea_ | the people, not the tech |
| 20:02 | pianohackr|work | Yup. Sometimes the best solutions involve not a single line of code change |
| 20:03 | Wizzyrea_ | I get into that argument a lot >.> |
| 20:03 | pianohackr|work | Or just a config change |
| 20:03 | chris | id hate koha to copy crappy workflows, cos thats what people are used to |
| 20:03 | Wizzyrea_ | YES. OMG. |
| 20:03 | Sirsi did X, and it sucked... can we make it work that way? | |
| 20:03 | chris | hehe |
| 20:03 | Wizzyrea_ | ./cry |
| 20:03 | pianohackr|work | Wizzyrea_: Gah, no kidding. Some of the processes the people here went through with Horizon... |
| 20:04 | At least I'm good friends with the cataloger, who is an awesome dude. I've heard horror stories about catalogers | |
| 20:04 | Wizzyrea_ | i'm usually like... erm... you know that you can skip 10 steps if you just do it Y way, right? |
| 20:04 | pianohackr|work | Wizzyrea_: And people don't always react well to that |
| 20:04 | Wizzyrea_ | and they're like... wha? |
| 20:04 | pianohackr|work | You gotta be veeeery polite |
| 20:04 | Wizzyrea_ | hehe yea |
| 20:05 | since we've been on koha though, this mentality of rote workflow has gotten a little more flexible | |
| 20:06 | since it's always improving | |
| 20:06 | chris_n | improving is the key with workflow |
| 20:06 | chris | yeah |
| 20:07 | i am still a big fan of incremental improvements | |
| 20:07 | vs wholesale changes | |
| 20:07 | pianohackr|work | Wizzyrea_: I've noticed that too. Knowing that things _can_ change often makes people happy even if it takes me forever to get to them |
| 20:07 | chris_n | *nod* |
| 20:07 | pianohackr|work | chris: yes, those are usually easier for the user to adapt to and you to support |
| 20:08 | Wizzyrea_ | we emphasize that change (usually) = improvement, and there are things that are weird, and sometimes they are perks, and sometimes they are quirks |
| 20:08 | chris_n | and open non-presupposed communication is key to improvement |
| 20:09 | Wizzyrea_ | (this discussion is partially why I like products with plugin frameworks) |
| 20:09 | chris | yep |
| 20:09 | Wizzyrea_ | don't like it? get a different one. But don't migrate out of your product, that's just dumb |
| 20:09 | chris | heh, i like thd's post to the list |
| 20:10 | Wizzyrea_ | yep. very... clever. |
| 20:10 | pie | just going back to "What are you trying to do?", that question helps with an XY Problem : http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem |
| 20:10 | fredericd left #koha | |
| 20:10 | pie | they're funny :) |
| 20:10 | (and good morning all) :) | |
| 20:11 | chris_n | thd++ |
| 20:14 | Wizzyrea_ | pie++ for a friday laugh |
| 20:14 | pianohackr|work | Where's the talk of "committees and subcommittees" that was mentioned earlier? |
| 20:14 | pie: I've lost good chunks of my sanity to XY problems ;( | |
| 20:15 | owen | We're just imagining how bad it might get if librarians were in charge of all Koha development to the exclusion of developers |
| 20:15 | chris | hey pie :) |
| 20:15 | pie | yeah, it's amazing how you realise how many times you've seen it, but not recognised it as such |
| 20:15 | hi Wizzyrea_, pianohackr|work and chris :) | |
| 20:15 | pianohackr|work | Hi pie |
| 20:16 | Wizzyrea_ | owen: <shudder> |
| 20:16 | that seems an extreme in the other direction that really makes me feel icky. | |
| 20:17 | what would be super best | |
| 20:17 | chris_n | hi pie |
| 20:17 | Wizzyrea_ | would be tech capable librarians who interface with the staff talking/hashing things out with developers. |
| 20:17 | chris_n | lol pie that's a good one |
| 20:18 | Wizzyrea_ | that way you (might) reduce the amount of nonsense |
| 20:18 | (that's kind of how I see my role, among other things) | |
| 20:18 | owen | Wizzyrea_: right, and I don't think it's uncommon |
| 20:18 | chris_n | ahhh.... librarian abstraction code |
| 20:18 | * owen | considers himself to be in that position as well |
| 20:19 | chris_n | or is it a developer API? |
| 20:19 | owen | That's why it's ridiculous to say that Koha development is only driven by developers. It ignores those of us who are librarian *and* developer |
| 20:19 | pianohackr|work | owen: Right, it's a continuum |
| 20:20 | Wizzyrea_ | yes, to me that just indicates (amusingly) that you are jealous of the people who can make your desires reality, because you yourself can't do it |
| 20:20 | you = the people who want librarian driven development | |
| 20:20 | it's like, cripes. | |
| 20:21 | never mind. I'm making myself tired. | |
| 20:21 | * Wizzyrea_ | has never been much for FUD |
| 20:22 | * chris_n | thinks the channel topic should be updated to reflect the next important date in Koha's life |
| 20:22 | pianohackr|work | Next dev meeting? |
| 20:22 | chris_n | heh |
| 20:22 | pianohackr|work | chris_n: the channel's unlocked; you can change it if you want to (I believe) |
| 20:22 | chris_n | I was thinking more of the due date for foundation, etc., whatever, voe |
| 20:22 | pianohackr|work | Right, there's that |
| 20:23 | chris_n | vote even |
| 20:23 | where is munin @spellcheck? | |
| 20:23 | chris | yep anyone can change the topic |
| 20:24 | chris_n | is there actually a second meeting scheduled for 2 weeks out? |
| 20:25 | or is nengard just to setup the final poll at the 2 week mark? | |
| 20:25 | or... | |
| 20:27 | Wizzyrea_ | two more tweets to tweet 666 |
| 20:27 | chris | yeah im not sure, i think nicole sets up poll, then 2 weeks after that meet again? |
| 20:28 | chris_n | wiki says "Further research candidate organizations to answer open questions (due in 2 weeks)" |
| 20:28 | then poll | |
| 20:28 | chris | ahh |
| 20:28 | chris_n | should we throw http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org/ into the mix? |
| 20:29 | chris | yes |
| 20:29 | owen left #koha | |
| 20:29 | chris_n | I sort of like what I've read of them so far |
| 20:29 | quote: "....the Conservancy does not intervene in the project's development other than to provide administrative assistance. " | |
| 20:30 | chris | yep |
| 20:31 | chris_n | it appears very hands-off |
| 20:31 | chris | my fear is that people are imagining the foundation to be very hands on |
| 20:31 | micro managery like you said | |
| 20:31 | chris_n | I think governance is going to be the sticky issue; finding the right balance may be challenging |
| 20:31 | chris | i like the idea of HLT or SPI or the conservancy |
| 20:32 | which play a more custodial role | |
| 20:32 | lookng after community property | |
| 20:32 | chris_n | HLT still has tops with me simply because I believe that they will always have the best interest of koha in mind... since it is their offspring so-to-speak |
| 20:32 | chris | ditto |
| 20:33 | chris_n | but the conservancy comes a close second |
| 20:33 | chris | yep |
| 20:34 | i thnk people imagining the foundation deciding what goes in a release | |
| 20:34 | are imagining even | |
| 20:37 | chris_n | adding the patroncard feature back is quickly turning into a major chunk of code :-P |
| 20:38 | if it was turning quickly rather than quickly turning I'd be happier | |
| 20:38 | chris | hehe |
| 20:41 | * chris_n | reads the list of ils compatibility for a brodart library label and notices they have overlooked Koha |
| 20:41 | chris_n | such presumption |
| 20:45 | time for pizza | |
| 20:46 | chris | :) |
| 21:05 | pianohackr|work | When what determines that is what is submitted before the feature freeze |
| 21:05 | Hrmph, replied to something half an hour old | |
| 21:05 | nvm | |
| 21:08 | chris | hehe |
| 21:10 | chris_n2-away left #koha | |
| 21:14 | chris_n2-away joined #koha | |
| 21:27 | collum left #koha | |
| 21:30 | rhcl_out is now known as rhcl | |
| 21:30 | rhcl | back from Nebraska - Project Pioneer |
| 21:57 | rhcl left #koha | |
| 22:03 | chris_n2-away is now known as chris_n2 | |
| 22:04 | Topic for #koha is now Happy 10th birthday #koha, koha foundation polling begins 23 September 2009 http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ep15#action_items | |
| 22:14 | chris_n2-away joined #koha | |
| 22:14 | chris_n2-away is now known as chris_n^2 | |
| 22:15 | chris_n^2 | too many chris's :-P |
| 22:16 | pianohackr|work | \lim_{chris_n \to \infty} = ? |
| 22:16 | chris_n2 left #koha | |
| 22:20 | chris_n^2 | hehe |
| 22:38 | Topic for #koha is now Happy 10th birthday #koha, koha foundation polling begins 29 September 2009 http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ep15#action_items | |
| 22:38 | * chris_n^2 | goes back to math class |
| 22:39 | chris_n^2 | interesting: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ offers legal services to FOSS projects "pro bono" |
| 22:46 | chris_n^2 is now known as chris_n2-away | |
| 23:12 | pianohackr|work | Good night, #koha |
| 23:13 | pianohackr|work left #koha |
← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
