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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:25 | CGI016 | can anyone tell me what software is used to create the irc logs on the koha website? |
| 13:25 | (or for that matter: what do you yourself use to create irc logfiles?) | |
| 13:26 | gmcharlt | CGI016: it's a custom bot (newlogbot) + web interface - not actually released as OSS, IIRC |
| 13:26 | most bots can do logging | |
| 13:26 | munin, for example, is a supybot, and there are a couple modules for supybot to log to file or database | |
| 13:26 | munin | gmcharlt: I suck |
| 13:27 | gmcharlt | @dunno add I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready |
| 13:27 | munin | gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. Dunno #5 added. |
| 13:27 | CGI016 | ok, so that's the way to go. |
| 13:28 | i'll take a look at supybot, hope that's simple enough... ;) | |
| 13:30 | thanks. | |
| 14:38 | jwagner | nahuel, you broke up my string of consecutive bugzilla numbers :-) |
| 14:38 | nahuel | héhé |
| 14:39 | you had to be faster :) | |
| 14:40 | jwagner | Hey, it takes time to pull all these together! I'm at 32 and counting.... |
| 14:41 | gmcharlt, I _WAS_ going to apologize for making bugzilla send you all those emails, but if you're going to crack the whip, I won't! | |
| 14:41 | gmcharlt | :) |
| 14:41 | kf | jwagner: this fast add feature rings a bell ;) |
| 14:41 | nahuel | jwagner, w000w |
| 14:41 | gmcharlt | s'ok, I'm subscribed to koha-bugs anyway |
| 14:42 | jwagner | I left them all as new/unassigned -- is that how you want me to do them? Some of them have already had patches sent. |
| 14:43 | wizzyrea | jwagner: I usually just note that a patch has been sent in a comment |
| 14:43 | that's how most ppl do it | |
| 14:43 | nahuel | wizzyrea, the status "PATCH-SENT" too |
| 14:43 | gmcharlt | jwagner: since most (all?) of these are for completed work, they should be assigned to which ever PTFS person is in charge of the bug |
| 14:43 | wizzyrea | that too |
| 14:44 | gmcharlt | yes, that too pretty-please |
| 14:44 | wizzyrea | probably the status is enough |
| 14:44 | gmcharlt | note that NEW means that the bug is theoretically up for grabs for anybody to pick up and implement |
| 14:44 | jwagner | Well, we have a bunch of different people doing the development and the person submitting isn't always the person developing. I may just pick one person's name to use overall. |
| 14:44 | nahuel | jwagner, and you must attache the patch to the ticket :) |
| 14:44 | gmcharlt | ASSIGNED means that the assigne is (in theory anyway) implicitly promising to do something about it |
| 14:45 | attaching patches to tickets is desirable but (IMO) optional | |
| 14:45 | and in any event, you don't necessarily need to do it until you send the patches for a particular bug to koha-patches | |
| 14:46 | unless any of the patches in question you're not sure about and are specifrically asking for special community review before they are submitted | |
| 14:46 | nahuel | ok |
| 14:46 | jwagner | OK. I'm still overhauling my list (believe it or not, there are a bunch MORE not yet entered). I'll go back & update status where needed. |
| 14:47 | gmcharlt -- I think I remember you saying that a person's email had to be subscribed to patches listserv to be able to send a patch. Is that correct? We were looking at using a generic alias email address for submission. | |
| 14:47 | (rather than trying to use diff people's emails all over the place) | |
| 14:47 | gmcharlt | jwagner: correct |
| 14:47 | you can subscribe but set the alias address to not receive mail from the list | |
| 14:48 | jwagner | Well, shoot. Another great idea withers in the cold light of reality.... |
| 14:48 | gmcharlt | jwagner: umm, I don't think there's a problem |
| 14:48 | doing it the way you want | |
| 14:48 | jwagner | OK, if we can subscribe the address, that might work. |
| 14:49 | gmcharlt | what I do care about is that the patch author has the Real Name (tm) of the person who made that patch (the contractor who doesn't want to be identified being the exception) |
| 14:49 | jwagner | OK, we'll look at our submit process with that in mind. |
| 14:51 | paul_p | jwagner: i'm very happy to see all those coming patches. Congrats & kudos (and the fines part of koha lacked a lot of features, for sure !) |
| 14:52 | jwagner | paul_p, thanks. We still have a bunch in development, but with luck we'll be able to send patches for some of this (current bugzilla entry) crop soon. |
| 14:52 | paul_p | can I suggest you create the bugs asap, even if the patch is still under development. |
| 14:52 | that could be usefull to know what you're working on (and maybe do some suggestion) | |
| 14:52 | jwagner | If we can, we will, but some of them are interrelated and we have to finish solving one piece before we can submit the rest. |
| 14:53 | As far as creating the bug entries, I'm still reviewing the rest to see how well defined they are. Durned specs keep changing.... | |
| 14:54 | paul_p | jwagner: just submit the feature 1st |
| 14:54 | with community help, you may get some interesting ideas about how to do something. | |
| 14:54 | jwagner | OK, I'll work on them. |
| 14:57 | wizzyrea | yea, I'd agree with Paul, I'm sure some of the things you're working on have the same idea floating around in varying forms |
| 14:57 | paul_p | jwagner: of course, you would not have to deal with them, but you may get interesting ideas that needs no time, or even that will reduce time ! |
| 14:59 | jwagner | paul_p, I'm sure of it. I'm not doing much of the development myself (as I keep saying, I Are Not A Real Programmer), but the various developers do monitor all the lists & discussions. |
| 15:01 | wizzyrea | hmm... is there some reason why I couldn't get a shelf list of more than 10000 items? |
| 15:01 | this report seems to die at 10k items | |
| 15:02 | paul_p | wizzyrea: maybe a field size... |
| 15:03 | jwagner | wizzyrea, I reported a bug a while back -- the report download truncates at 10,000 no matter how much data is returned. Lemme see if I can find that bug report. |
| 15:03 | wizzyrea | OHH |
| 15:03 | jwagner++ for having the answer lol | |
| 15:03 | (I thought it was me) | |
| 15:04 | yes, that's a problem | |
| 15:04 | hum. So... how am I going to get my shelf list :P | |
| 15:05 | jwagner | I thought I created/added a bug on that 10,000 limit, but I can't find it. Someone else opened one that seems to be the same problem -- bug 3419 |
| 15:05 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3419 normal, P5, ---, gmcharltgmail.com, NEW, Downloaded saved reports do not contain all records |
| 15:06 | wizzyrea | yea, that's the one I am looking at |
| 15:07 | sigh | |
| 15:07 | work around? | |
| 15:07 | any ideas? | |
| 15:07 | jwagner | Damfino how to solve it, but I wish someone would figure it out. Those of us who are (a) SQL-challenged or (b) don't have system-level access can't get the data out. |
| 15:08 | Be my guest :-) | |
| 15:08 | But no one will know who you are now! | |
| 15:09 | damfino | *sigh* fine |
| 15:10 | wizzyrea | well, I think it has more to do with (B) in my case |
| 15:10 | b/c I wrote the report. :P | |
| 15:10 | ohhh kay. Well. | |
| 15:11 | the library has 42k items... suppose if I could figure out how to split it into 4 10k reports that would be a way around it | |
| 15:16 | paul_p | wizzyrea: bug found ! |
| 15:16 | C4/Reports/Guided.pm, line 398 | |
| 15:16 | $limit = 9999 unless $limit; | |
| 15:16 | if Koha don't propose a limit, then it's truncated at 9999 | |
| 15:16 | wizzyrea | DOH! |
| 15:16 | paul_p | and for DL, there is no limit provided |
| 15:16 | so defaulted to 9999 | |
| 15:17 | wizzyrea | Paul_p: you are the BEST. |
| 15:17 | hm. wonder what a good limit would be | |
| 15:18 | paul_p | wizzyrea: for DLing, there should be no limit |
| 15:18 | gmcharlt | agreed |
| 15:18 | wizzyrea | if that's technically possible (damfino, hah) then yea, there should be no limit |
| 15:22 | paul_p | wizzyrea: yep, that's technically possible, but your Apache server must have a high timeout, otherwise, you may get a "apache stopped the process blabla" |
| 15:23 | wizzyrea | i wonder if that's why they changed it in the first place |
| 15:24 | and "who would ever need a report of more than 10k items?" | |
| 15:24 | ./facedesk | |
| 15:25 | jwagner | Maybe add a warning somewhere & a way to override the limit? |
| 15:26 | wizzyrea | well... even with an override the apache thing is still kind of problematic |
| 15:26 | because if that's not set right, then it won't work anyway | |
| 15:27 | is there a place where "settings for optimal usefulness" is defined? | |
| 15:27 | in the documentation? | |
| 15:27 | (server settings) | |
| 15:28 | is = are. Sigh. | |
| 15:28 | jwagner | How about a different approach? If a report will produce a large number of results, add an option to get the output emailed to a specified address, rather than displayed/downloaded? |
| 17:31 | Question for folks on Item Circulation Alerts -- http://koha.org/documentation/[…]irculation-alerts | |
| 17:31 | This appears to just be controlling email notifications for various events. Howe does it relate to patron messaging settings? | |
| 17:41 | wizzyrea | 1s reading |
| 17:41 | this may be our enhancement... | |
| 17:41 | jwagner | The item circ alerts? |
| 17:42 | wizzyrea | the handling of setting defaults by patron type |
| 17:58 | jwagner what question did you have (specifically)? | |
| 17:58 | jwagner | Just wanted to know what it did & if it needs to be set up. Does the messaging setting(s) in the patron account override this? |
| 17:58 | wizzyrea | yes, it does |
| 17:59 | this just sets the defaults for the patron types | |
| 17:59 | example: you have a patron type of Mytown -> adult | |
| 17:59 | you want Mytown -> adult to always get hold notifications, you want all *new* Mytown -> adult patrons to have this setting by default | |
| 17:59 | when you add patrons | |
| 18:00 | jwagner | We're doing that through the messaging settings in patron categories. |
| 18:00 | wizzyrea | this really just sets the default settings when adding new patrons |
| 18:00 | hm, then I guess I'm not sure what it's for exactly | |
| 18:00 | sorry >.< | |
| 18:00 | jwagner | So this would allow finer control than the settings in patron categories? Residents for library X could have this setting, while Residents for library Y could have that? |
| 18:01 | wizzyrea | right |
| 18:25 | zico | hi |
| 18:25 | i hv been trying to establish two koha servers in one machine | |
| 18:25 | so.. what i did.. is.. | |
| 18:25 | i copied two files... from /usr/share/koha & named it /usr/share/koha1 | |
| 18:26 | nd.. from /etc/koha & named /etc/koha1 | |
| 18:26 | i created two users.. root & koha1 | |
| 18:26 | & also two database koha & koha1 | |
| 18:26 | root has priviledge for koha & koha1 has all priviledge in koha1 database | |
| 18:26 | i changed the koha-conf.xml for koha1 ... server | |
| 18:27 | changed the database name from "koha" to "koha1" in there | |
| 18:27 | & also changed the "user" and "password" as... "koha1" & "1234" | |
| 18:28 | nd.. i can access this two servers.. with two different ports... say for first one... 192.168.1.254:80 & for second one... 192.168.1.254:89 | |
| 18:28 | but.. the PROBLEM IS... ONLY "ROOT" CAN LOG INTO THESE TWO SERVERS... BUT... "KOHA1" CANNOT LOGIN THERE | |
| 18:28 | CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP ME?? I NEED YOUR HELP BADLY | |
| 18:38 | wizzyrea | wait, root can log into both? |
| 18:38 | zico: root can log into both? | |
| 18:40 | zico | yes..root can log into both |
| 18:41 | zico: yes...root can log into both | |
| 18:41 | wizzyrea | so, that would indicate to me that both koha installs are pointing to the same config file. |
| 18:41 | zico | but.. i changed from koha-conf.xml |
| 18:41 | :( | |
| 18:43 | wizzyrea | you edited both koha-conf.xml for koha1 to indicate the koha1 credentials? |
| 18:43 | gmcharlt | zico: in the Apache config, is the SetEnv KOHA_CONF ... line different for each set of virtual hosts? |
| 18:44 | wizzyrea | nm, I guess you said that you did. gmcharlt probably has it |
| 18:49 | zico | gmcharlt: SetEnv KOHA_CONF?? i cannot get it |
| 18:51 | gmcharlt | check in the Apache configuration file you set up for the virtual host(s) |
| 18:51 | zico | yep |
| 18:51 | it is there | |
| 18:51 | SetEnv koha3_CONF "/etc/koha3/koha3-conf.xml" | |
| 18:52 | in /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha3 | |
| 18:54 | gmcharlt | and is different in your /etc/koha/1/koha1-conf.xml ? |
| 18:59 | zico | in /etc/koha/1/koha1-conf.xml ... i hv changed each & every "koha" with "koha1" |
| 18:59 | plus.. i hv changed the name of database... from "koha" to "koha1" | |
| 18:59 | pianohacker | zico: Are both of your Koha virtual hosts set up in /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha3 ? |
| 18:59 | zico | nd.. also changed the user from "root" to "koha1" |
| 19:00 | yes... my both virtual hosts r set up in /etc/apache2/sites-available/ | |
| 19:00 | pianohacker | zico: Okay. In the virtualhost blocks for each of them, there should be a line that starts with SetEnv KOHA_CONF |
| 19:01 | It has to be that exact name; anything else will confuse Koha | |
| 19:08 | zico | SetEnv koha_CONF "/etc/koha3/koha-conf.xml" this is there in every virtual block |
| 19:11 | chris | it needs to be different in each one |
| 19:12 | zico | different in each & every "koha" word? |
| 19:12 | chris | no |
| 19:12 | zico | i hv changed each & every "koha" with "koha3" in /etc/koha3/koha-conf.xml file |
| 19:13 | chris | zico |
| 19:13 | got to http://pastebin.com | |
| 19:14 | zico | do u need my koha-conf.xml file? |
| 19:14 | chris | no |
| 19:14 | we need your koha-httpd.conf file | |
| 19:15 | i want to see all your virtualhosts :) | |
| 19:18 | zico | ok |
| 19:20 | this is it | |
| 19:20 | http://pastebin.com/m69913f29 | |
| 19:21 | chris | SetEnv koha3_CONF "/etc/koha33/koha3-conf.xml" |
| 19:21 | thta line is wrong | |
| 19:21 | it needs to eb SetEnv KOHA_CONF | |
| 19:22 | zico | ok..lemme check |
| 19:22 | :P | |
| 19:30 | it bring me this error: | |
| 19:30 | when i go 4 reloading the apache2 server.... | |
| 19:30 | damn!! | |
| 19:30 | debian:/etc/apache2/sites-available# /etc/init.d/apache2 restart Restarting web server: apache2apache2: apr_sockaddr_info_get() failed for debian apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerName apache2: apr_sockaddr_info_get() failed for debian apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name, using 127.0.0.1 for ServerName failed! | |
| 19:30 | apache2 says... "failed"!!! :( | |
| 19:37 | wizzyrea | ok, for one... is it koha3 or koha1 that your 2nd koha install lives in? |
| 19:38 | b/c your config file has a lot of koha3 in it, but no koha1. | |
| 19:39 | i'm wondering if that's where you've gone wrong | |
| 19:39 | zico | itz koha3 |
| 19:39 | :) | |
| 19:39 | no.. actually.. my koha1 is different | |
| 19:39 | actually.. this is my new koha.. & itz "koha3" | |
| 19:40 | wizzyrea | Hmm. |
| 19:40 | i copied two files... from /usr/share/koha & named it /usr/share/koha1 | |
| 19:40 | [1:26p] zico: | |
| 19:40 | nd.. from /etc/koha & named /etc/koha1 | |
| 19:41 | [1:26p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | i created two users.. root & koha1 | |
| 19:41 | [1:26p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | & also two database koha & koha1 | |
| 19:41 | [1:26p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | root has priviledge for koha & koha1 has all priviledge in koha1 database | |
| 19:41 | [1:26p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | i changed the koha-conf.xml for koha1 ... server | |
| 19:41 | [1:27p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | changed the database name from "koha" to "koha1" in there | |
| 19:41 | [1:27p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | & also changed the "user" and "password" as... "koha1" & "1234" | |
| 19:41 | [1:28p] zico: | |
| 19:41 | nd.. i can access this two servers.. with two different ports... say for first one... 192.168.1.254:80 & for second one... 192.168.1.254:89 | |
| 19:41 | this would seem to indicate otherwise. | |
| 19:41 | zico | yes... actually... i just wanna let u know tht... i am going 2 use another named than "koha" |
| 19:41 | :) | |
| 20:49 | chris | back |
| 20:56 | wizzyrea | ok, question |
| 20:56 | is there ANY status for an item that will prevent it being checked in? | |
| 20:56 | that would trigger a message similar to "this item cannot be checked in | |
| 20:57 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: are you seeking to have that happen? |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | Well, it's one of several ways to skin a cat |
| 20:57 | er | |
| 20:57 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: in a indy branches setup, it can be done, but that's the only circumstance IIRC |
| 20:58 | wizzyrea | Interesting. I'm thinking about fines and withdrawn items (you may have talked to mickey about this stuff). |
| 20:59 | scenario: library has an item that is long overdue (60 days) they want to fine the tardy patron and consider the book gone. If the item should come back, they do not want the fine lifted from the patron's account. They do not want to check the item in. | |
| 21:00 | the problems as the system currently is: 1. deleting the item outright accomplishes the "this item cannot be checked in" problem, but removes the fine description. Bad. | |
| 21:00 | 2. changing the item to withdrawn allows the item to be checked in, and removes the fine. Wrong. | |
| 21:01 | (even though it doesn't unset the withdrawn status) | |
| 21:01 | so my thought was: create a withdrawn status that cannot be checked in (probably a big project) or | |
| 21:02 | make the fines table look for the item in *both* the existing items and the deleted items table (no links if deleted, of course, and pruning of that table would obviously affect that reporting) | |
| 21:03 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: of the options, I think it would be easier to handle it on the fines accounting end rather than preventing the checkout |
| 21:03 | wizzyrea | That was what I thought as well |
| 21:04 | i mean, that's technically just a display | |
| 21:04 | I also didn't know if the forthcoming fines fixes would address that | |
| 21:20 | ok, i'm going to be a pest/nub: I'm looking at the deleted biblio/items tables in the structure documentation. displaying the title of a deleted item isn't an easy thing, is it? | |
| 21:30 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: wouldn't say that - two step process; check to see if bib still exists, if so, grab title from biblio.title |
| 21:30 | if bib is deleted, grab it from deletedbiblio.title | |
| 22:24 | chris | well its all out in the open now |
| 22:24 | pianohacker | chris: ? |
| 22:24 | chris | email to the koha list |
| 22:25 | titled Support for Koha | |
| 22:25 | pianohacker | Ah, right |
| 22:27 | chris | im gonna need more coffee i can tell |
| 22:30 | brendan | heya pianohacker |
| 22:30 | pianohacker | Hi, brendan |
| 22:30 | brendan | just saying hi -- not much more to add |
| 22:30 | pianohacker | Heh |
| 22:30 | gmcharlt | hi brendan |
| 22:30 | brendan | heya gmcharlt |
| 22:30 | how's atlanta | |
| 22:31 | gmcharlt | not there yet - going up next week |
| 22:31 | brendan | ok |
| 22:31 | I'll be there towards the end of this month | |
| 22:31 | hopefully you break them all in for me :) | |
| 22:47 | pianohacker | gmcharlt: Confirmed that I have a 3.0 textual MARC record editor |
| 22:48 | It does validate records by sending them to the server for parsing | |
| 22:48 | gmcharlt | pianohacker: I suggest throwing it out there as a branch, even if there are still glitches |
| 22:48 | pianohacker | k |
| 23:05 | chris | branches are good |
| 23:05 | specially public branches | |
| 23:06 | pianohacker | Now that I've finally gotten a github up, that should be fairly easy |
| 23:06 | chris | *nod* |
| 23:09 | has anyone here integrated biblios with koha? i know it can be done in theory has anyone done it in practice? | |
| 23:09 | pianohacker | Yes, actually. It required some code hacking, but I was able to do it |
| 23:09 | (it's been a while) | |
| 23:11 | chris | cool |
| 23:11 | days work? 2 days work, 2 weeks work? | |
| 23:11 | brendan | did it awhile ago, waiting for the next release. |
| 23:11 | chris | :) |
| 23:11 | brendan | I think it's still on .9 |
| 23:11 | pianohacker | I was able to do it in 4-8 hours |
| 23:11 | chris | fab, ill go 6-12 then :) |
| 23:12 | pianohacker | Note that item editing was not integrated (you'd have to add from biblios, then find in the catalogue, then add items from Koha) |
| 23:12 | chris | righto |
| 23:13 | pianohacker | (Gah, the directory naming is britrotting my brain) Heh. I was not very familiar with Koha 3.0 at that time, so you might be able to do it faster |
| 23:13 | brendan | betcha chris cormack would help you out too. |
| 23:14 | chris | ? |
| 23:14 | brendan | whoops |
| 23:14 | I meant the other chris | |
| 23:14 | pianohacker | :) |
| 23:14 | chris | :) |
| 23:14 | yep true good point | |
| 23:15 | brendan | too many chris-c's involved in koha |
| 23:15 | chris | heh |
| 23:33 | and so it begins | |
| 00:06 | pianohacker | brb bike ride |
| 00:51 | richard | hi |
| 00:52 | pianohacker | Hi, richard |
| 00:52 | richard | hi pianohacker |
| 00:53 | pianohacker | richard: I don't think I've ever asked. What do you do for Katipo? |
| 00:54 | richard | the job is called 'business development manager' - so it's sort of a managerial job |
| 00:54 | pianohacker | Get to do much coding? |
| 00:54 | richard | nah. i've forgotten everything from "sam's teach yourself perl in 21 days" |
| 00:55 | the main sort of coding i did was bunging html into chris's perl | |
| 00:55 | pianohacker | You're probably a bit saner for it |
| 01:33 | Wizzyrea_ | ...wow |
| 01:41 | chris | wow indeed |
| 02:05 | ahh redbull, how i love you | |
| 03:03 | Wizzyrea_ | jdavidb, hi |
| 03:03 | jdavidb | Wizzyrea_: Hiya! :D |
| 03:16 | pianohacker | Hi, David, Liz |
| 03:17 | Wizzyrea_ | jesse, you're up late |
| 03:17 | jdavidb | Hey there, jesse! |
| 03:17 | pianohacker | Hallo |
| 03:18 | I am up late. Trying to finish an invoice | |
| 03:18 | Wizzyrea_ | oooh |
| 03:18 | i'm watching excrement hitting impellers. | |
| 03:18 | pianohacker | mailing list? |
| 03:18 | Wizzyrea_ | heh yea |
| 03:19 | pianohacker | Ever so polite |
| 03:19 | Wizzyrea_ | lol, this channel's logged >.> |
| 03:19 | I have to be nice | |
| 03:20 | jdavidb | You're nice all the time, Liz. |
| 03:20 | Wizzyrea_ | clearly you have not seen me at my salty best |
| 03:21 | Amit | hi brendan, chris |
| 03:21 | good morning #koha | |
| 03:21 | hi jdavidb | |
| 03:21 | Wizzyrea_ | heya amit |
| 03:22 | pianohacker | Hi, Amit |
| 03:22 | Amit | heya Wizzyrea_, pianohacker |
| 03:22 | jdavidb | Hi, Amit! :) |
| 03:25 | brendan | heya Amit |
| 03:25 | and all others :) | |
| 03:25 | heya there wizzyrea_ jdavidb | |
| 03:25 | Wizzyrea_ | yo :) |
| 03:25 | jdavidb | howdy, brendan! |
| 03:30 | Wizzyrea_ | hi jo |
| 03:30 | jdavidb | Hello, Jo. :) |
| 03:30 | brendan | heya Jo |
| 03:35 | Amit | heya Jo |
| 03:42 | pianohacker | Good night (man it's much too late to be staring at the screen) |
| 03:50 | jdavidb | Yayez! My indexing run finished up, so I'm done for the night. Back up again in five hours, to head for work. To bed! |
| 04:36 | Jo | Hiya all |
| 04:36 | (sorry - I'm terrible - I login then go and do something else without looking at whats happening :) | |
| 06:47 | kf | good morning #koha |
| 06:58 | nicomo | morning kf |
| 07:00 | kf | good morning nicomo |
| 07:08 | chris | morning europe |
| 07:16 | kf | hi chris |
| 07:26 | indradg__ | chris, ping |
| 07:28 | chris | heya indradg__ |
| 07:28 | bbiab | |
| 07:28 | putting kids to be | |
| 07:28 | d | |
| 07:29 | indradg__ | chris, aah sure :) |
| 07:49 | chris | back |
| 07:51 | indradg__: you wanted me? | |
| 07:52 | kf | interesting read on mailing lists today |
| 08:01 | paul_p | kf: what are you speaking about ? "Support for Koha" ? |
| 08:01 | hello chris & kf & others | |
| 08:01 | kf | yes |
| 08:01 | and good morning paul | |
| 08:01 | paul_p | what's your opinion/feeling ? |
| 08:01 | chris | hi paul and kf |
| 08:02 | paul_p | thanks. Summer weather in Marseille. |
| 08:02 | kf | I have a bad feeling when LibLime customers create kind of their own community outside of the koha community |
| 08:02 | paul_p | kf: that's exactly it ! |
| 08:02 | kf | and when code is not given back or given back at a later point in time - koha develops so fast, will it be possible to integrate it into Koha then? |
| 08:03 | paul_p | I would just change and say "LibLime and some of their customers ..." |
| 08:03 | kf++ | |
| 08:03 | you're fully right | |
| 08:04 | I can leave with it, but i'm tired of josh speaking of the 60% of the contributed code. Because it's wrong | |
| 08:04 | chris | paul_p: at least its not 97% anymore |
| 08:04 | paul_p | katipo created 100% of koha 1, I created 80% of koha 2, and LL created 60% of koha 3 |
| 08:05 | chris | which is what it was in the minutes :) |
| 08:06 | kf | and I think their funding model (I didnt understand it all of it) sounds like what you have with proprietary vendors |
| 08:06 | paul_p | kf: you should answer publicly on koha ML |
| 08:06 | the more answers this mail will result in, the better result we will have ! | |
| 08:07 | chris | paul_p: in the good news front, has mason shown you this yet http://library.kapiticoast.govt.nz/ ? |
| 08:07 | kf | so you get a separate koha version which perhaps will make it difficult to leave LL and pay not for your development and dont know what you exactly will get for your money? |
| 08:08 | paul_p | mason++ |
| 08:08 | (chris: nope I didn't saw that) | |
| 08:09 | kf: the "main" problem is that it's LL that owns koha.org. So they can kick everybody out of the game if they want (but they won't do it, they'll just let things going nowhere) | |
| 08:11 | kf | thats bad, but I think the community can do something about it - and perhaps start a new web site if its necessary |
| 08:11 | we discussed translating the manual - but I think we will do something with the online help and I will try to contribute this templates back | |
| 08:12 | paul_p | kf: right. But that would be very "expensive" in terms of notoriouty |
| 08:12 | kf | notoriouty? |
| 08:12 | chris | notoriety |
| 08:12 | paul_p | mmm... sorry (wanted to speak of notorious) |
| 08:12 | yep, sorry | |
| 08:13 | chris | kf: you understand that word? reputation |
| 08:13 | is similair | |
| 08:13 | kf | now I do, tried to look it up |
| 08:15 | you think people might still end up looking at koha.org | |
| 08:15 | paul_p | kf: dunno, but maybe. And anyway, that will be a pain. |
| 08:16 | kf | I still hope a new web site will not be necessary |
| 08:16 | paul_p | I can add that LL also own git, so they can do what they want with proposed patches. The only thing that they don't manage are the mailing lists (we -BibLibre- do), even if they have the DNS entry, of course. |
| 08:17 | kf | perhaps it would be a good idea to involve the liblime customers into the discussion to know what they think about it |
| 08:17 | chris | paul_p: thats not really true |
| 08:18 | they only own git.koha.org | |
| 08:18 | thats the beauty with git, there are 100's of repo's | |
| 08:19 | kf | you can get all the data out of it, can you? |
| 08:19 | chris | yep |
| 08:19 | paul_p | chris: yep, but he has the "final cut" for patches on git.koha.org |
| 08:19 | chris | galen does |
| 08:20 | paul_p | that's why, if LL don't want to accept a patch, then, we are stuck |
| 08:20 | chris | no, its not LL, its galen |
| 08:20 | unless LL want to try to kick out the release manager | |
| 08:20 | indradg__ | chris, and totally subvert the community process |
| 08:21 | chris | galen had his first day at his new job today |
| 08:21 | and still committed to git.koha.org .. so until that changes, its business as usual | |
| 08:22 | but in theory yes, they could lock galen out | |
| 08:22 | but locking out the community elected release manager would be utter madness | |
| 08:25 | magnusenger | to me it sounds like LL wants to have it's own RM for it's own version of Koha? |
| 08:27 | chris | well, the thing to remember is LL have only been around since 2005 |
| 08:27 | and have had RM for 3.0 and 3.2 (until recently) | |
| 08:28 | so unlike biblibre and katipo etc they havent had to deal with RM's outside their control | |
| 08:28 | so are perhaps scared | |
| 08:29 | but it is the reality of working in the FOSS world, you cant be in control all the time | |
| 08:29 | kf | and scared of their competitors? |
| 08:30 | chris | *nod* |
| 08:33 | magnusenger | to re-phrase paul_p: "if [the RM] don't want to accept a patch, then, we are stuck" |
| 08:34 | chris | yep, true of every FOSS project |
| 08:35 | altho with git, you are way less stuck than you were with cvs | |
| 08:35 | magnusenger | so there can always be situations where a company develops something for a customer, but the dev is rejected by the RM |
| 08:35 | chris | yep, altho it happens quite rarely |
| 08:35 | usually it is not rejected outright, but the implementation of it may be, until its fixed | |
| 08:36 | nicomo | magnusenger: you're quite right |
| 08:36 | hence the need for better communication between vendors and generally among developpers | |
| 08:37 | prior to any developement taking place | |
| 08:37 | chris | this is why im happy to see all the enhancements being logged by jwagner on bugs.koha.org |
| 08:37 | nicomo | taking about the features, etc |
| 08:37 | yes, that's exactly what we should aim for | |
| 08:37 | magnusenger: if you discussed your intended dev beforehand with the community | |
| 08:38 | you'll get feedback and avoid having it rejected afterwards | |
| 08:38 | chris | *nod* |
| 08:38 | and often you will get "oh i started on that, here take a look" | |
| 08:38 | or, "have you thought about doing x when you do y there?" | |
| 08:40 | nicomo | but we've not been good at this in the last couple of years |
| 08:40 | still we have to | |
| 08:41 | chris | yes, we need to improve this |
| 08:48 | i think that more public WIP branches would help too | |
| 09:11 | nahuel | hiall |
| 09:12 | chris | hiya nahuel :) |
| 09:26 | kf | hi nahuel |
| 09:27 | nahuel | :) |
| 09:36 | Amit | hi nahuel |
| 09:39 | gmcharlt | hi folks |
| 09:40 | kf | hi gmcharlt |
| 09:41 | chris | good grief, its the man who never sleeps :) |
| 09:41 | gmcharlt | look in a mirror, dude |
| 09:42 | ;) | |
| 09:42 | chris | hehe |
| 09:42 | touche | |
| 09:42 | nicomo | touché |
| 09:43 | I love when a language uses a word from another | |
| 09:43 | chris | like rendezvous |
| 09:43 | nicomo | when the French say "rugbyman" for "rugby player" ;-) |
| 09:43 | chris | or vice versa |
| 09:44 | nicomo | nope |
| 09:44 | vice versa is latin | |
| 09:44 | but vis a vis | |
| 09:45 | my favorite is "coup de grace" | |
| 09:45 | because it's so hard to pronounce in English | |
| 09:47 | gmcharlt | "koop de gracie" ;) |
| 09:49 | nicomo | ËkuË?dÉ ËÉ¡rÉË?s in English whereas kudÉÉ¡Ê?as in French |
| 09:49 | the Ê? is difficult | |
| 09:56 | paul_p | gmcharlt: the "p" is silent in "coup de grace" |
| 09:57 | chris | paul_p: i think he was making a joke :) |
| 09:57 | the hardest word i know is the swiss german word for cupboard | |
| 09:58 | Chuchichäschtli | |
| 09:59 | kf | German word for squirrel is Eichhörnchen |
| 09:59 | try that :) | |
| 09:59 | chris | i like bat |
| 09:59 | kf | bat? |
| 09:59 | Fledermaus? | |
| 10:00 | chris | yep |
| 10:00 | sounds so cool | |
| 10:00 | sounds like flying mouse | |
| 10:00 | easy to remember | |
| 10:00 | :) | |
| 10:01 | gmcharlt | :) |
| 10:05 | indradg__ | don't need to look so far... me (on indian-style british english) and my wife (on american english) can't even agree on the pronunciation of "schedule" =P |
| 10:06 | chris | heh |
| 10:06 | skedule | |
| 10:06 | shedule | |
| 10:07 | indradg__ | hhe |
| 10:08 | gmcharlt | and then there's people like me, Americans who watched so much British TV at an impressionable age that there's no telling *what* accent we have ;) |
| 10:08 | chris | hehe |
| 10:09 | its true | |
| 10:10 | kf | not sure if I want to know how my English accent would get described |
| 10:13 | magnusenger | am I right in thinking that the general meeting will start in about 23 hours and 50 minutes? Still a bit confused by the time zones... |
| 10:13 | chris | thats the time i have too magnusenger |
| 10:13 | kf | ask wolfram alpha :) |
| 10:14 | magnusenger | kf: hadnt thought about that! :-) |
| 10:14 | thanks! | |
| 10:14 | kf | it shows the hours to midnight |
| 10:18 | chris | hi schuster |
| 10:20 | gmcharlt | you scared him off ;) |
| 10:20 | chris | hehe |
| 11:31 | kf | hi jwagner |
| 11:31 | jwagner | Hi kf |
| 11:33 | chris | hi jwagner |
| 11:35 | jwagner | Morning Chris |
| 11:37 | chris | thanks heaps for filing those enhancement bugs, very useful |
| 11:37 | jwagner | There's more to come -- haven't had a chance to finish the list. |
| 11:38 | chris | awesome |
| 11:55 | jwagner | G'night chris |
| 11:58 | kf | good nicht chris |
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