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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:00 | hdl | There, you see, we have at least two different ways. |
| 11:00 | kados | hehe |
| 11:00 | hdl | It is perlish TMTOWTDI |
| 11:00 | kados | well I would volunteer to find and change every syspref |
| 11:01 | but every library upgrading would need to set up sysprefs from scratch (not a huge job) | |
| 11:01 | owen | kados, couldn't you set up a process for translating the old syspref values into the new ones? |
| 11:01 | ...if they're direct analogues, that is. | |
| 11:02 | kados | yea, that's true |
| 11:02 | just a bit of sql actually | |
| 11:02 | update systempreferences set X=X where X=X; | |
| 11:05 | hpassini | hi ! I'll try to answer to your questions ! |
| 11:05 | kados | ? |
| 11:05 | hi hpassini | |
| 11:05 | ahh, you're san op? :-) | |
| 11:06 | did you change your nick? | |
| 11:06 | hpassini | yes i'am |
| 11:06 | no | |
| 11:06 | kados | ahh, ok, just ignore me then :-) |
| 11:07 | hpassini | about the professional borrowers |
| 11:07 | kados | yea? |
| 11:07 | hpassini | it's borrowers like teacher for example who can issues more items than another borrower |
| 11:08 | is it clear for you or not ? | |
| 11:08 | kados | yes |
| 11:08 | but we dont' have in the US | |
| 11:08 | so probably why I was confused in the first place :-) | |
| 11:09 | thanks | |
| 11:09 | rch | hi hpassini |
| 11:09 | kados | hpassini: but they seem to need to have a guarantee? |
| 11:09 | hpassini: why would that be? | |
| 11:09 | owen | kados, that's a feature that we've tried to implement for NPL in the past |
| 11:09 | kados | hehe |
| 11:09 | owen++ | |
| 11:09 | owen | Only instead of changing the limit on number of issues, we tried to alter the issuing period |
| 11:10 | kados | it didn't work? |
| 11:10 | hpassini | normaly only children need a guarantor |
| 11:10 | owen | It did, but it was something Stephen hard-coded in a previous version. |
| 11:10 | Probably didn't survive the last upgrade, I don't know. | |
| 11:10 | rch | yes, why is a professional borrower different than an adult borrower with different issuing rules? |
| 11:10 | hdl | He is different becaus he depends on an institution. |
| 11:11 | hpassini | beacause we need differents information and differents issuing rules |
| 11:12 | owen | Good point rch... I wonder if I'm misremembering what we tried to set up? |
| 11:13 | kados | what is the 'Structure' section ... is that supposed to be 'Institution'? |
| 11:14 | or is it a guarantor? | |
| 11:15 | hpassini | no it's not |
| 11:16 | kados | it seems to be guarantor since it has a 'relation' |
| 11:16 | and options are father|mother | |
| 11:18 | hpassini | you mean relation and not garantor |
| 11:18 | ok it's right | |
| 11:18 | rch | i think both guarantor and structure use relation from systemprefs. |
| 11:19 | hpassini | yes |
| 11:19 | kados | does structure mean 'place where professional person works'? |
| 11:20 | hpassini | yes |
| 11:20 | rch | so a professional is equivalent to a child borrower, but the guarantor does not need to be a member, |
| 11:20 | kados | ok, I'm gonna change it to 'Institution' in english |
| 11:22 | hpassini | ok |
| 11:23 | the departement is the familly of items for example 'items for children' 'litterature' ... | |
| 11:23 | rigth ? | |
| 11:24 | rch | btw, paul responded to that email. |
| 11:24 | kados | man, cvs is really messed up |
| 11:24 | anyone else having trouble with savannah? | |
| 11:25 | rch | the web cvs was inaccessible this morning |
| 11:25 | kados | cvs -z3 -d:ext:kadoscvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha |
| 11:25 | checks out a bunch of stuff then I get | |
| 11:25 | Terminated with fatal signal 7! | |
| 11:25 | about half way through | |
| 11:26 | hdl: are you able to check out a fresh copy from CVS? | |
| 11:27 | owen | Didn't someone try to kill James Bond with fatal signal 7? |
| 11:29 | kados | hehe |
| 11:30 | rch: are you able to check out anything from savannah? | |
| 11:30 | weird, it dies in the same place every time | |
| 11:31 | owen | With my Windows CVS client I get "cvs update: warning: cannot open /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags read/write: Read-only file system |
| 11:31 | cvs [update aborted]: cannot read /sources/koha/CVSROOT/val-tags: Input/output error" | |
| 11:35 | kados | savannah-- |
| 11:35 | http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha | |
| 11:35 | interesting error: | |
| 11:36 | Failed to connect to database. Invalid Group: that group does nto exist :-) | |
| 11:36 | must be a bad day at gnu.org | |
| 11:36 | owen | Strange, I was on the site just over an hour ago and didn't see that error. |
| 11:36 | kados | looks like the whole site is borked |
| 11:36 | probably a prob with their database server | |
| 11:37 | owen | Speaking of borked, we need to talk about those help links in the OPAC. |
| 11:37 | hdl | :( |
| 11:37 | owen | They're leading to the Koha Wiki homepage, which isn't very helpful. |
| 11:37 | kados | yea |
| 11:37 | owen | http://wiki.koha.org/?id=en:opachelp# |
| 11:37 | rch | yes, those need to go away |
| 11:37 | kados | did you see that report from diane neal? |
| 11:38 | she mentioned that having help directly next to the items was the way to go | |
| 11:38 | inline help | |
| 11:38 | owen | Oh, the usability report? |
| 11:38 | kados | yea |
| 11:38 | hehe | |
| 11:39 | I also have a ton of feedback from her students sitting here | |
| 11:39 | from the first koha with class class | |
| 11:39 | they all did reports on their experiences | |
| 11:39 | might be useful to look it over and glean any usability tips from it as well | |
| 11:39 | I know everyone had trouble with serials and acquisitions | |
| 11:39 | and authorities too | |
| 11:39 | owen | Yeah, me too :) |
| 11:40 | kados | hehe |
| 11:40 | serials is getting there now | |
| 11:40 | with the new corp serials module out of NZ | |
| 11:40 | but acqui could still use some attention | |
| 11:40 | and our MARC editor is perhaps the weakest part of Koha currently | |
| 11:41 | owen | Off the subject, but what is the part of the MARC record that indicates whether the title is fiction or non-fiction? |
| 11:42 | kados | yea ... |
| 11:42 | owen | I'm curious about the first result of this search: http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]:e%20and%20fic:0) |
| 11:43 | I'm assuming it's a catalogging error | |
| 11:43 | kados | it's position 33 in the 008 |
| 11:43 | 0=non fiction, 1=fiction | |
| 11:44 | there is no position 33 in that 008 | |
| 11:44 | so I'm not sure why it's coming up ... | |
| 11:46 | maybe null==0 ? | |
| 11:47 | owen | So it is a catalogging error, but it's also an error that it appears in the search results? |
| 11:50 | kados | yea, it would seem so |
| 11:50 | I might be able to fix it by doing it as a number index | |
| 11:51 | rather than a string | |
| 11:51 | in fact, I bet that's the prob | |
| 11:51 | owen: I'll try that tonigth and report back | |
| 11:52 | owen | Thanks. I realize it's not a big thing. |
| 11:52 | kados | seems big to me :-) |
| 12:18 | owen | :) |
| 12:19 | kados | once I get it right I'm gonna do a blog post on it :-) |
| 12:23 | success! | |
| 12:24 | owen: try it out in the opac and if you're satisfied, close that bug :-) | |
| 12:25 | owen: by the way, in a demo I did yesterday, some catalogers were wondering why we had ON ORDER printed in records | |
| 12:26 | are the catalogers still putting in that text? | |
| 12:26 | owen | Yes, because there was no good way to indicate to the users that a title was on order |
| 12:27 | ...at the time, that is. Now we've got the status working for us. | |
| 12:27 | kados | ahh, ok |
| 12:35 | owen: now I've got a bug for you :-) | |
| 12:35 | owen: if you look at the NPL opac in IE there's a 'rendered but with errors' warning | |
| 12:36 | owen | Which page? |
| 12:36 | kados | all of them AFAIK |
| 12:37 | or at least all the search results pages | |
| 12:37 | owen | Which version of IE? |
| 12:38 | kados | weird |
| 12:38 | I can't reproduce it | |
| 12:38 | but I've seen it twice now | |
| 12:38 | and darrell from SMFPL reported it | |
| 12:38 | sorry :-) | |
| 12:39 | owen | Ah, SMFPL--yes |
| 12:39 | I saw this the other day, kados | |
| 12:39 | kados | ahh, yea? |
| 12:39 | owen | Let me re-check. |
| 12:39 | kados | maybe it's just on their site? |
| 12:40 | prepareopaclogin is undefined | |
| 12:40 | just got that debug message | |
| 12:40 | maybe that's it | |
| 12:40 | owen | Yes, they've got NPL's custom javascript in their system preferences. |
| 12:40 | kados | rch: you there? |
| 12:43 | owen | Looks like they removed one chunk of the custom javascript but not all of it. They should take it all out. |
| 12:54 | kados | lunch time |
| 12:54 | bbl | |
| 15:00 | savannah-- | |
| 15:05 | rch | kados: any word from savannah? |
| 15:05 | kados | their only help channel is the website |
| 15:05 | that I know of | |
| 15:09 | rch | is Shelf.pm an abandoned OO rewrite of virt. shelves? or is BookShelves.pm a non-OO rewrite of Shelf? |
| 15:10 | kados | no idea |
| 17:22 | I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have 40 billable hours per week out of all three of you :-) | |
| 17:23 | but that's probably not realistic :-) | |
| 23:06 | kaavik | are there any pages on the web, that talk about computing power estimates? |
| 23:06 | chris | sorry? |
| 23:06 | im not sure i understand what you mean | |
| 23:06 | kaavik | IOW, someone is trying to suggest to a local school |
| 23:07 | about putting some kind of electronic circulation system in place | |
| 23:07 | and I want to know, "how big a computer" is needed | |
| 23:07 | assuming they went with koha ... | |
| 23:08 | I mean, if they make an old P60 boot, and it's their only circ terminal | |
| 23:08 | kados | hi kaavik |
| 23:08 | kaavik | ...will that cut it? |
| 23:08 | kados | you can run koha on anything |
| 23:08 | I've got it running on a linux pda :-) | |
| 23:08 | the big question is how many records you have | |
| 23:09 | kaavik | hmm |
| 23:09 | kados | if you run version 2.2.8 and you have more than say, 100K records, you should consider better hardware |
| 23:09 | kaavik | and, I assume, how many terminals are active at once ... |
| 23:09 | kados | how many terminals do you plan on having active? |
| 23:09 | more than say 15 or so? | |
| 23:09 | kaavik | I don't know, being as I don't even know which school they're talking about |
| 23:10 | kados | right |
| 23:10 | kaavik | I work for the 'big library' |
| 23:10 | in the computer dept | |
| 23:10 | ...some patron just asked about "free circ. software' | |
| 23:10 | ...at another branch ;-P | |
| 23:10 | us, we're using Sirsi / Dynix | |
| 23:10 | 'cuz we're rich, I guess ... | |
| 23:11 | but, 10-15 terminals, is you think the point at which they need to look at rack mounted servers to power it? | |
| 23:12 | kados | most of the medium sized libraries running koha (with 10-15 terminals) run on very modest hardware |
| 23:12 | say an entry level dell server with 2 gig of ram or something | |
| 23:13 | kaavik | not bad |
| 23:13 | now, we have about 400 terminals all told | |
| 23:13 | most of which are catalog only | |
| 23:14 | kados | right |
| 23:14 | kaavik | Dell server though -- that's promising |
| 23:14 | I'll pass it along | |
| 23:14 | chris | Koha isnt cheaper its better :-) |
| 23:14 | kados | yea |
| 23:14 | kaavik: liblime.com/demos | |
| 23:14 | kaavik | as a linux geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly |
| 23:15 | kados | kaavik: check out the link for 'Koha ZOOM Opac' |
| 23:15 | chris | its the problem FLOSS runs up against |
| 23:15 | kados | the searching in Koha is among the best in ILSes today |
| 23:15 | chris | which as a linux geek im sure you are aware of |
| 23:15 | kaavik | chris: yeah. :-| |
| 23:19 | chris | i think someone got koha going on a playstation once |
| 23:19 | why, i dont know | |
| 23:19 | :) | |
| 23:19 | kaavik | ROTFL |
| 23:20 | I have a PS2, and have considered getting a linux disc for it ... | |
| 23:20 | chris | yeah i never use my ps2 anymore |
| 23:20 | kaavik | that would greatly amuse me, to check tools out using a PS2 |
| 23:20 | chris | hehe |
| 23:20 | kaavik | katamari damacy |
| 23:20 | chris | ah yeah, everyone loves katamari |
| 23:20 | kaavik | I bought a PS2 just so I could play it |
| 23:21 | well, too, I just bought mine a month ago | |
| 23:21 | haven't been into the console wars since I gave up my original NES | |
| 23:21 | chris | http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz[…]l-katamari-lovers |
| 23:22 | kaavik | Na Naa, Na na na na na na naaaa .... |
| 23:24 | OK you guys, many thanks | |
| 23:24 | chris | np |
| 23:24 | kaavik | I need to get back to work :-| |
| 06:09 | js | hi #koha |
| 09:27 | kados | hdl: are you there? |
| 09:27 | hdl: savannah is still down for me | |
| 09:27 | :( | |
| 09:53 | owen | kados, you around? |
| 09:54 | hdl | kados : yes |
| 10:02 | kados | hey guys |
| 10:02 | owen: what's up? | |
| 10:02 | owen | I noticed your Liblime OPAC demo has the same javascript error as SMFPL |
| 10:02 | kados | hehe |
| 10:02 | thanks for noticing :-) | |
| 10:02 | rch: ! | |
| 10:02 | owen | ...and I notice you nicked NPL's featured search idea ;) |
| 10:03 | kados | hehe, yea :- |
| 10:03 | your front page still owns though :-) | |
| 10:03 | hdl: so what are we gonna do about CVS? | |
| 10:04 | hdl: is paul available briefly? | |
| 10:04 | hdl: I'm concerned that whoever runs savannah hasn't even bothered to put up a splash page saying 'we know we're down, and we're working on it' | |
| 10:05 | I wonder if we shoould host at google | |
| 10:06 | hi paul | |
| 10:06 | paul | hi kados |
| 10:06 | kados | thanks for coming |
| 10:06 | savannah has been down for two days | |
| 10:06 | with no splash page even saying why | |
| 10:07 | hehe | |
| 10:07 | sorry | |
| 10:07 | google has subversion: http://code.google.com/hosting/ | |
| 10:09 | paul: any thoughts? | |
| 10:11 | paul | yep, even if no definitive opinion. |
| 10:11 | - we need a better tool | |
| 10:11 | - we need a tool that can attract developpers, or at least, not frighten them | |
| 10:12 | - we need to choose wisely & "definetly" | |
| 10:12 | OpenCataloger uses SVN, it's quite fun | |
| 10:12 | & has some nice graphic tools under linux. | |
| 10:12 | rch | svn++ |
| 10:12 | kados | yea, liblime uses svn internally, and we love it |
| 10:12 | paul | hdl just tells me that chris is testing GIT |
| 10:12 | kados | yes, chris and I discussed this yesterday |
| 10:13 | and we agreed that git is cool | |
| 10:13 | but probably too hard for most koha developers | |
| 10:13 | paul | I have no opinion about a distributed or not distributed tool. |
| 10:13 | kados | to understand 'distributed' version control |
| 10:13 | and it might prevent user contribution | |
| 10:13 | paul | so, let's stay with a standard one. |
| 10:13 | hdl | To my mind using a distributed version control would be useful. |
| 10:13 | paul | that's a definitive exclusion for me. |
| 10:14 | hdl | User contribution is not so frequent with CVS widely spread. |
| 10:14 | paul | yes hdl, but I strongly think we need more "more devs" than a distributed tool. |
| 10:15 | kados | hdl: but if we move to git we will probably get no contribs :-) |
| 10:15 | hdl | ppl coming on the project or ppl we would "coach" would learn CVS or any version control system. |
| 10:15 | kados | what chris and I discussed |
| 10:16 | is better use of branching in svn | |
| 10:16 | and then when a branch is stable, merge it into the main trunk | |
| 10:16 | anyway, can we arrive at a concensus about svn? | |
| 10:17 | hdl: do you hate svn? :-) | |
| 10:17 | hdl | Nope. I didnot test. |
| 10:17 | paul | hdl : very easy to use with kdesvn |
| 10:17 | it's as easy as cervesia for CVS | |
| 10:18 | hdl | But I currently have problems with versions that I tweaked for clients and that I want to upgrade. |
| 10:18 | kados | hdl: what kind of probs? |
| 10:19 | paul | 1 thing ++ for svn is the possibility to import CVS with most of the history afaik |
| 10:19 | kados | yea |
| 10:19 | but we don't have a CVS repo anymore :-) | |
| 10:19 | hdl | I have to re do all the diffs. |
| 10:20 | There are svn forge though. | |
| 10:20 | paul | kados : why choose ggl for svn hosting ? |
| 10:20 | hdl | gna! |
| 10:20 | paul | why not gna.org (like for opencataloger) |
| 10:20 | hdl | https://gna.org/ |
| 10:21 | kados | paul: because in a year, I dn't want to have to say 'gna is slow ... or broken ... what will we do?' |
| 10:21 | with google we know it will be fast, and maintained well | |
| 10:21 | paul | good point. ggle can be considered as "stable" I bet. |
| 10:22 | so why not a private hosting ? | |
| 10:22 | (on koha.org or koha-fr.org ?) | |
| 10:22 | kados | my thinking is: |
| 10:22 | - we are software developers, not sys admins :-) | |
| 10:22 | - google has real sysadmins to manage their savannah hosting platform | |
| 10:23 | hdl | s/savannah/subversion |
| 10:23 | kados | hehe, yea |
| 10:23 | sorry | |
| 10:23 | hdl | :D |
| 10:23 | paul | ok, sounds good reasons. |
| 10:23 | owen | kados, have you Googled for feedback about Google's code hosting? |
| 10:24 | kados | owen: no, but I've used it for a few projects |
| 10:24 | paul | can I let you continue this speak & go back to dish cleaning ? |
| 10:24 | hdl | could we host and sync backups ? |
| 10:24 | kados | owen: like the google worldmap |
| 10:24 | owen: I mean koha worldmap | |
| 10:24 | paul | (i can read & answer 1 or 2 questions in 20mn I think) |
| 10:24 | kados | paul: ok, thanks |
| 10:24 | hdl | thx paul |
| 10:24 | kados | hdl: yep, we could have backups |
| 10:24 | owen | Yeah, if paul gets in trouble for not doing the dishes his wife might not let him come play with us! |
| 10:25 | kados | hehe |
| 10:25 | http://www.infoq.com/news/Revi[…]on-Google-Hosting | |
| 10:25 | looks like a balanced review | |
| 10:25 | owen | "While Google provides Subversion hosting, it doesn’t look like there’s currently a way to import the contents of an existing repository into it." |
| 10:25 | http://endoframe.com/log/?p=23 | |
| 10:26 | kados | yea, we'd have to start over with our history |
| 10:26 | personally, I don't think that matters much | |
| 10:26 | at this point | |
| 10:26 | I can't anticipate we'll need to roll back | |
| 10:29 | I know chris would probably disagree with me there :-) | |
| 10:29 | he likes repo histories | |
| 10:30 | hehe | |
| 10:31 | ok, well where to go from here? | |
| 10:31 | paul, jmf, rch, chris agree that svn is OK | |
| 10:31 | hdl too? | |
| 10:32 | so I suppose we should also check with the koha-dev community :-) | |
| 10:32 | I'll write an email | |
| 10:32 | hdl: ok with google too? | |
| 10:32 | or do you need more info? | |
| 10:33 | hdl | what you told was quite sensible. |
| 10:33 | But I regret to fall back into american hands :D | |
| 10:33 | kados | hehe |
| 10:34 | hdl | we could initiate the stuff for google then officlize when koha-devel community agrees. Couldn't we ? |
| 10:34 | kados | I'm gonna write a email to alert that a decision will be made today |
| 10:35 | if someone wants to give an opinion they can | |
| 10:40 | paul | reading the little history... |
| 10:40 | PaulShannon | The download page at savannah looks like it is down. Anyone confirm? |
| 10:40 | paul | OK to be counted in the "pro svn" team. |
| 10:41 | kados | PaulShannon: yea, email about that forthcoming to koha-devel |
| 10:41 | paul | my only question is about ggl licence of the code. do they guarantee ggl code is JUST a code repo. |
| 10:41 | and ggl in this matter is just a forge. | |
| 10:41 | PaulShannon | Is there a mirror somewhere? |
| 10:41 | paul | I may sound paranoiac, but I just want to be sure. |
| 10:41 | ok, guys, I leave again ;-) | |
| 10:43 | kados | paul_away: i will address that question in my email after a bit of research |
| 10:43 | PaulShannon: you looking to check out from CVS or download 2.2.8? | |
| 10:44 | PaulShannon | 2.2.8. Haven't looked at it at all yet. |
| 10:44 | kados | hdl: do you have a 'backup' of 2.2.8 we can throw up on koha.org? |
| 10:46 | hdl | I didnot download the tarball. |
| 10:46 | But I have rel_2_2_7 | |
| 10:47 | a pity TG will have to recommit his stuff | |
| 10:54 | PaulShannon | Is someone putting 2.2.7 up on koha.org, or can I get a copy? |
| 10:56 | kados | PaulShannon: we'll get you a copy of 2.2.8 asap |
| 10:56 | PaulShannon: I gotta finish this email to koha-devel first |
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