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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 16:46 | slef | http://www.jet2.com/News.aspx?id=65 "Jet2.com [...] calls for lazy frogs to get back to work!" |
| 16:46 | Jet2 - I can't believe it's an airline. | |
| 16:46 | owen | Charming |
| 16:47 | chris, you around? | |
| 22:51 | russ | cos the other channel is too busy |
| 22:51 | chris | now in koha? |
| 02:25 | hdl | hi pierrick |
| 02:26 | pierrick | hi hdl & paul |
| 02:40 | paul | plein de français ce matin encore... |
| 02:40 | osmoze ? | |
| 02:41 | est-ce que tu as eu le temps de tester l'install windows ? | |
| 02:41 | osmoze | bonjour |
| 02:41 | paul | bonjour d'abord, bonne remarque ! |
| 02:41 | osmoze | j avais commencer mais pas terminé...Tiens, tu me choppes au reveille, j ai rien prevu ce matin, j attaque :) |
| 02:42 | (en fait, j ai fais l install avec phpmyadmin et au final pb de perl :() | |
| 03:14 | paul | pierrick hésite beaucoup ce matin encore... |
| 03:14 | a t'il l'utilité d'un _ ou pas ? | |
| 03:14 | bonne question... | |
| 03:15 | pierrick | désolé, problemes de connexion internet chez INEO |
| 03:15 | paul | je sais je sais. Ca m'amuse juste ;-) |
| 03:16 | (et ton login apparait chez moi en vert pale, du coup le _ est difficile à voir. donc faut que je fasse attention si je veux te "bipper" | |
| 03:16 | pierrick | tu utilises quoi comme client IRC ? |
| 03:16 | parce que irssi ou Xchat font l'autocomplétion des nicks présent sur le chanel. | |
| 03:16 | s/chanel/channel/ | |
| 03:17 | paul | pierrick: ah, c'est vrai, KSirc aussi |
| 03:17 | mais j'y pense jamais ! | |
| 03:17 | pierrick | paul, tu as combien de stopwords dans ta base de dev HEAD? |
| 03:22 | paul | ca dépend de la base. |
| 03:22 | plusieurs. | |
| 03:22 | (dans la plupart des cas, j'ai ce qui est mis par défaut à l'install. | |
| 03:22 | ca doit faire une 50aine de mots | |
| 03:23 | pierrick | OK, je suis en train de reprendre la page de gestion des stopwords |
| 03:24 | en partant du principe que les stopwords sont courts et qu'on peut faire peut d'opération dessus. Tu me diras ce que tu en penses. (initialement c'était juste pour ajouter la barre de pagination) | |
| 03:24 | paul | OK. |
| 03:24 | quoi que : STOP | |
| 03:24 | ne perd pas de temps là dessus. Les mots vides seront inutiles dans Koha 3.0 probablement | |
| 03:24 | vu que la recherche srea gérée par zebra ! | |
| 03:24 | qui utilise d'autres mécanismes. | |
| 03:24 | quoi que finalement : | |
| 03:25 | les mots vides sont à mettre dans un fichier à part. Peut être que l'on génèrera ce fichier à partir de la table stopwords. | |
| 03:25 | bref, je ne suis pas trop sûr. | |
| 03:25 | mais ne passe pas 1 journée là dessus ;-) | |
| 03:28 | pierrick | non, pas un journée, je te rassure, de toute façon, je vais chez le fameux client dans une heure |
| 03:28 | paul | "chez le fameux client" ? |
| 03:29 | pierrick | un gros client d'INEO |
| 04:40 | osmoze | hdl> ? |
| 04:41 | paul> ? | |
| 04:42 | paul | ye |
| 04:42 | yep | |
| 04:42 | osmoze | non c edst bon paul merci :) |
| 04:43 | (enfin désolé ^^) | |
| 07:13 | hdl ? | |
| 07:17 | hdl | salut |
| 07:40 | kados | morning all |
| 07:40 | paul: do you have a quick second? | |
| 07:41 | paul: I'm importing some records and I'm afraid they are truncating | |
| 07:41 | paul: with bulkmarcimport | |
| 07:41 | I get the following error in the log several hundred times: | |
| 07:41 | no mapping found at position 8 in Price : ~\ 36.00; Inv.# CSI102254; Date 30/11/98; Supplier : CroftHouse, Surrey, UK; Recd 11/12/98; Contents : 1. Bringing your technology to market; 2. So do you really have something of value? 3. The first steps towards commercialisation of your technology; 4. The difficult problem of valuation of intellectual property; 5. Developing your ideas; 6. The licensing option; 7. Forming your own company; 8. Financing the busines | |
| 07:45 | paul | hi kados. |
| 07:45 | "no mapping found at position 8". | |
| 07:45 | I never saw this before. | |
| 07:45 | could it be a MARC::charset problem ? | |
| 07:45 | ("mapping" is sometihng MARC::charset does) | |
| 07:46 | (thus my idea) | |
| 07:49 | kados | yep, could be |
| 07:49 | just wondering if you had seen it before | |
| 07:49 | paul | so, the answer is no ;-) |
| 07:49 | kados | :-) |
| 07:50 | paul | was it iso2790 ? |
| 07:51 | kados | yes |
| 07:51 | and claims to be MARC-8 | |
| 07:51 | encoded | |
| 07:52 | the record imported fine | |
| 07:52 | but the data in 856 was discarded by bulkmarcimport | |
| 07:52 | http://wipoopac.liblime.com/cg[…]tail.pl?bib=24436 | |
| 07:52 | 856 contained: | |
| 07:52 | 856 _aPrice : <9C> 36.00; Inv.# CSI102254; Date 30/11/98; Supplier : C | |
| 07:52 | roftHouse, Surrey, UK; Recd 11/12/98; Contents : 1. Bringing your technology t | |
| 07:52 | o market; 2. So do you really have something of value? 3. The first steps toward | |
| 07:52 | s commercialisation of your technology; 4. The difficult problem of valuation of | |
| 07:52 | intellectual property; 5. Developing your ideas; 6. The licensing option; 7. Fo | |
| 07:52 | rming your own company; 8. Financing the business start up; 9. Making your techn | |
| 07:53 | ology a commercial success; | |
| 07:53 | which I can view fine in dumpmarc.pl | |
| 07:54 | paul | you write a specific css for every customer ? |
| 07:56 | (/me happy to see that it's wipo ;-) ) | |
| 07:56 | kados | yes, most customers have custom css for at least color, some for layout as well |
| 07:56 | paul | they want it, or you propose ? |
| 07:57 | kados | it's a required item |
| 07:57 | paul | (because if I don't propose, they don't ask !) |
| 07:57 | kados | if they complain, we drop it :-) |
| 07:57 | because we have found everyone wants their Koha tweaked in some way | |
| 07:57 | and we can't afford to do it for free :-) | |
| 07:59 | paul | how many do you charge for this feature ? |
| 08:16 | kados | paul: quick questions when you're off phone |
| 08:16 | paul: what do you think about a syspref for 'encoding' | |
| 08:17 | paul: that allows the librarian to specify the encoding scheme to be used in intranet and opac templates? | |
| 08:40 | paul: also, we must discuss encoding probs when you are available | |
| 08:40 | paul: in rel22 and head | |
| 08:40 | paul: well, rel24 now :-) | |
| 08:41 | paul: it took me about 5 minutes to add a TemplateEncoding variable to Auth.pm, and the templates ... I will add it to CVS and to default templates if you ask me too | |
| 08:42 | paul: i think utf-8 catalogs will appreciate it | |
| 08:42 | paul: as they won't need to edit the template directly | |
| 08:42 | paul | IPT thanks a LOT the guy who wrote CloneTag & CloneSubfield !!! |
| 08:42 | kados | great! :-) |
| 08:43 | do they like 'subfield reordering' too? | |
| 08:45 | paul | yep |
| 08:45 | (still on phone) | |
| 09:27 | kados : i'm back | |
| 09:27 | explain what you're speaking of with Encoding ;-) | |
| 09:31 | kados | encoding: |
| 09:31 | right now, in 2.4, utf-8 is default | |
| 09:31 | in templates | |
| 09:31 | but it's a real problem if a library has some other encoding | |
| 09:31 | they must edit all template headers to change the value | |
| 09:31 | utf-8 => 8859-1, etc. | |
| 09:32 | so why not just have a template syspref called 'TemplateEncoding' | |
| 09:32 | then, in templates, put: | |
| 09:32 | <!-- TMPL_IF NAME="TemplateEncoding" --> | |
| 09:32 | <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='TemplateEncoding' -->" /> | |
| 09:32 | <!-- TMPL_ELSE --> | |
| 09:32 | <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> | |
| 09:32 | <!-- /TMPL_IF --> | |
| 09:32 | in fact, I've already done this | |
| 09:33 | and it works perfectly | |
| 09:33 | if you want I will commit to 2.4 immediately | |
| 09:33 | it only takes about 5 mintes to add the template code | |
| 09:33 | for default | |
| 09:33 | paul: ? | |
| 09:33 | paul | (on phone again !) |
| 09:33 | kados | hehe |
| 09:38 | paul | back |
| 09:38 | utf8 is NOT the default for me in 2.4 | |
| 09:38 | (I mean, at least in default templates) | |
| 09:38 | I've seen that you have it in npl, but it's not in default or css | |
| 09:38 | but ok for this patch. | |
| 09:39 | kados | ok, thanks |
| 09:39 | paul | but defaulting it to iso8859-1 ! |
| 09:39 | kados | absolutely |
| 09:39 | paul | as it's what existing libraries have. |
| 09:39 | kados | another problem |
| 09:39 | I've got | |
| 09:39 | well, wait | |
| 09:39 | we still have some problems in 2.4 related to encoding | |
| 09:39 | for instance, with the marc editor | |
| 09:40 | but before we discuss that | |
| 09:40 | observe this record: | |
| 09:40 | http://wipoopac.liblime.com/cg[…]tail.pl?bib=17996 | |
| 09:40 | in 245 $a (title) | |
| 09:40 | paul | a suggestion (for wipoopac) : the footer would be better with 2 links I think : 1 for koha.org & 1 for liblime.com |
| 09:40 | kados | ahh, good idea |
| 09:41 | in 245 $a (title), there are several special characters | |
| 09:41 | but I believe they are ruined on import | |
| 09:41 | or else 8859 is not the proper encoding to display them | |
| 09:41 | (as wipo is set to 8859) | |
| 09:41 | paul | mmm... I bet it's char_decode that is wrong on this specific german char. |
| 09:42 | it should be über or Über | |
| 09:42 | kados | is char_decode for MARC-8 data? |
| 09:42 | in fact, there are many characters | |
| 09:42 | that are incorrect | |
| 09:42 | paul | yep. |
| 09:42 | kados | I'm not even sure how to begin troubleshooting |
| 09:42 | paul | this char_decode causes a lot of problems. |
| 09:43 | you could try to play with Encode module ! | |
| 09:43 | I think it's the best way to do it. | |
| 09:43 | kados | one idea I had was to encode the entire collection as utf-8 |
| 09:43 | on import | |
| 09:43 | this would solve problem #2 | |
| 09:44 | which you will want to know about | |
| 09:44 | as it relates to the new MARC editor | |
| 09:44 | the character encoding of the new MARC editor is utf-8 by default | |
| 09:45 | it may attempt to convert any other char encoding to utf-8 when editing a record | |
| 09:45 | and then save the record as utf-8 | |
| 09:45 | paul | you mean even for default templates ? |
| 09:45 | kados | it's in the MARChtml2xml routine in Biblio.pm |
| 09:46 | so yes, even for default I'm afraid | |
| 09:46 | I posted a warning in cvs notes when committing this code | |
| 09:46 | but didn't hear anything :-) | |
| 09:47 | the problem is that xml must be in utf-8 | |
| 09:47 | perhaps the solution is to re-encode in the original encoding after using xml | |
| 09:47 | slef++ | |
| 09:48 | slef: we're drowning in encoding problems | |
| 09:48 | slef | kados: I thought all flour in the US was drugged already? |
| 09:48 | owen | slef: that's why we're all so happy over here |
| 09:48 | kados | slef: I eat organic flour |
| 09:48 | slef: no drugs :-) | |
| 09:48 | slef | kados: you sure? Even some of our organic flour is drugged already. |
| 09:49 | kados | slef: if you want to bail us out of our encoding probs, please do |
| 09:49 | owen | Paul, I have a question for you about C4::Context->userenv->{branch} |
| 09:49 | paul | owen : ask hdl, he wrote userenv. |
| 09:50 | owen | Okay, for whomever: Is there a simple way to pull the branch name at the same time, rather than just the branch code? |
| 09:50 | kados | isn't it just 'branchname'? |
| 09:51 | if not, should be fairly painless to add it to userenv | |
| 09:51 | hdl | owen yes. |
| 09:52 | I read. | |
| 09:52 | I do it and commit. | |
| 09:53 | owen | Thanks, that's going to be a REALLY BIG help for our librarians |
| 09:54 | shedges | ...and I won't be there to get any credit for the improvement :-( |
| 09:55 | owen | No, but we'll put up a commemorative plaque for hdl ;) |
| 09:57 | shedges | in French? |
| 09:59 | kados | heh |
| 10:06 | paul | kados : you're right, we have a major problem in MARC editor on default !!! |
| 10:07 | (I did not saw it on add, just on modif !) | |
| 10:07 | hdl | commited in 2.2 branch |
| 10:07 | kados | right |
| 10:07 | paul: check addbiblio.pl for an 'encode' line | |
| 10:08 | paul: if there, try removing it | |
| 10:08 | paul: and see if modif works | |
| 10:08 | paul | there is one, but it's commented |
| 10:08 | kados | ok |
| 10:08 | paul | (just below "sub create_input") |
| 10:08 | kados | right |
| 10:08 | so I'm quite puzzled about how to proceed | |
| 10:09 | I can reintroduce char_encode, or I can try to build a better method | |
| 10:09 | slef: could use some of your input on this as well | |
| 10:11 | paul: so we could : | |
| 10:11 | 1. check encoding of all records going into editor | |
| 10:12 | 2. preserve encoding before running MARChtml2xml | |
| 10:12 | 3. convert back to old encoding after MARChtml2xml | |
| 10:12 | because MARChtml2xml (which replaces the very buggy MARChtml2marc) requires utf-8 | |
| 10:13 | I dont' think any xml parsers recognize marc-8 or some of the other strange encodings in library records | |
| 10:14 | paul: do you have any ideas? | |
| 10:14 | paul | ... thinking... |
| 10:15 | hdl : about your previous commit : left join is faster than where. | |
| 10:16 | so you had better do a left join to get branchname, as it will be called on every page ! | |
| 10:16 | owen | also: |
| 10:16 | Global symbol "$branchname" requires explicit package name at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Auth.pm line 409. | |
| 10:16 | Global symbol "$branchname" requires explicit package name at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Auth.pm line 414. | |
| 10:16 | Global symbol "$branchname" requires explicit package name at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Auth.pm line 418. | |
| 10:16 | Global symbol "$branchname" requires explicit package name at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Auth.pm line 429. | |
| 10:17 | paul | hdl : you just loose your commemorative plaque ! |
| 10:17 | kados | hehe |
| 10:17 | paul | kados : 1/2/3 : do you mean we will have to do 1 AND 2 AND 3 everytime ? |
| 10:17 | slef | kados: I guess we start with utf-8 in the xml bit and then try to expand it outwards to cover all koha internals. |
| 10:17 | hdl | hey I'm not dead yet ! |
| 10:18 | slef | by the way folks, msg me if I seem to be away and I'll see it later |
| 10:18 | paul | I will really become mad with utf8 & Perl ! |
| 10:18 | kados | paul: me too! |
| 10:19 | paul: and with xml parsers for not supporting other encodings | |
| 10:19 | paul: and for MARC::Record and MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset :-) | |
| 10:19 | paul: we have several cases: | |
| 10:19 | 1. record coming from Z3950 | |
| 10:19 | 2. record coming from resevoir | |
| 10:20 | 3. record coming from Koha (imported with bulkimport) | |
| 10:20 | 4. record coming from KOha (previously edited/added in Koha) | |
| 10:20 | paul | for Instance, I just want to solve : editing a record coming from Koha ! |
| 10:20 | kados | right |
| 10:21 | so everything is edited as 8859 with your clients? | |
| 10:21 | since your templates are 8859? | |
| 10:21 | paul | yep |
| 10:21 | kados | so what if a record is not 8859, does it currently display incorrectly when editing? |
| 10:21 | (in 2.2.5) | |
| 10:22 | (if the record is outside of ascii range?) | |
| 10:26 | I read that as well, it scares me :-) | |
| 10:26 | paul | scares ? |
| 10:27 | kados | I am scared to guess the encoding :-) |
| 10:27 | as it would be hard to confirm it was correct with 50K records | |
| 10:28 | paul | what do you did for NPL ? |
| 10:28 | kados | for encoding? |
| 10:28 | paul | as they have some biblios with diacritics iirc. |
| 10:29 | are they in UTF8 ? | |
| 10:29 | kados | no, they still use 8859 |
| 10:29 | paul | so the new MARC editor don't work for them ? |
| 10:29 | kados | but I suspect it's a problem Koha has had for some time |
| 10:29 | no, I must fix this problem | |
| 10:30 | but in fact, Koha already was broken for them with regards to encodings | |
| 10:30 | I suspect that MARC-8 was never supported in Koha | |
| 10:30 | because it probably does not exist in UNICODE :-) | |
| 10:31 | so if we assume we only must deal with two encodings in 2.4 | |
| 10:32 | our solution could be quite simple | |
| 10:32 | check TemplateEncoding var | |
| 10:32 | if 8859-1 | |
| 10:33 | paul | (ok, let's say we have only 2 encodings, that's OK for me !) |
| 10:33 | kados | convert to utf-8 in MARChtml2xml at the beginning |
| 10:33 | then, after MARChtml2xml, convert back to 8859-1 | |
| 10:33 | so the user will never know it was in utf-8 | |
| 10:33 | paul | but... when I reach addbiblio, I immediatly get a problem. html2xml has not be called ! |
| 10:33 | Biblio.pm just call MARCgetbiblio, that is xml independant, right ? | |
| 10:34 | kados | is that because you are editing one you already edited? |
| 10:34 | paul | yep |
| 10:34 | kados | if you edit or add one with addbiblio, it is utf-8 |
| 10:34 | MARCgetbiblio is xml independant | |
| 10:34 | only MARChtml2xml uses XML | |
| 10:35 | paul | ??? I don't understand, sorry |
| 10:35 | kados | ok ... here's the history |
| 10:35 | MARChtml2marc was very buggy | |
| 10:35 | it lost data for instance | |
| 10:35 | and was very difficult to read | |
| 10:36 | so i wrote a new method that was easier to read | |
| 10:36 | it converts the html form submission into MARCxml | |
| 10:36 | paul | (let me know when the history if finished) |
| 10:36 | kados | hehe |
| 10:36 | finished | |
| 10:37 | paul | so, go to |
| 10:37 | http://i8.bureau.paulpoulain.c[…]kcode=Default&op= | |
| 10:37 | (test/test should work) | |
| 10:37 | kados | ok, I'm there |
| 10:37 | paul | 020 tag : |
| 10:37 | should be Numéro | |
| 10:37 | 200$a should be | |
| 10:38 | L'autorité | |
| 10:38 | so : | |
| 10:38 | kados | ahh ... this is not in the _data_ but in the descriptions! |
| 10:38 | paul | diacritics are gone for TAG labels as well as datas ! |
| 10:38 | If you add a new biblio, you'll get empty data, of cours, but VALID labels ! | |
| 10:39 | who transformed descriptions ??? | |
| 10:39 | kados | not me |
| 10:39 | hmmm ... | |
| 10:39 | was char_encode used to dynamically transform descriptions in the editor? | |
| 10:40 | in previous version of Koha? | |
| 10:40 | paul | hint : on the previous link, force "encoding utf8" in firefox |
| 10:40 | you'll get correct labels & wrong (very strange !) datas | |
| 10:41 | kados | are you sure you did not convert mysql to have utf-8 in the tables on this test box? |
| 10:41 | paul | yep. |
| 10:41 | (& it works perfectly when you look at a biblio or create a new one) | |
| 10:42 | kados | wow, that is strange |
| 10:42 | but labels are stored in the same place, right? | |
| 10:42 | each record does not have it's own copy of a label | |
| 10:42 | osmoze | bye all |
| 10:43 | hdl | owen recommited. |
| 10:43 | paul | and get : |
| 10:43 | [Wed Apr 05 17:43:17 2006] [error] [client 213.41.184.186] not well-formed (invalid token) at line 11, column 19, byte 480 at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6/i386-linux/XML/Parser.pm line 187, referer: http://i8.bureau.paulpoulain.c[…]mple/addbiblio.pl | |
| 10:44 | :-((( | |
| 10:46 | which one(s) ? | |
| 10:46 | kados | and not have a marc editor incapable of producing valid marc |
| 10:46 | paul | html2marc or html2xml ? |
| 10:46 | kados | the encoding probs are easier to fix IMO |
| 10:47 | esp if we agree to only deal with two encodings | |
| 10:47 | paul | 1st question then : |
| 10:47 | why has the previous page wrong labels ? | |
| 10:47 | that's really strange ! | |
| 10:47 | kados | I'm checking |
| 10:47 | agreed, quite strange | |
| 10:48 | the page must be build differently for edits than for new records | |
| 10:51 | paul | something strange is probably done on line 527+/- |
| 10:51 | OK, you were wrong ;-) | |
| 10:52 | line 423, if we are in a mod = read biblio from MARCgetbibio | |
| 10:52 | and line 527/532 => read it again, but FROM XML ! | |
| 10:52 | just comment line 532, and everything is better ! | |
| 10:53 | (although i'm not sure there is no side effect !) | |
| 10:54 | kados | ahh |
| 10:54 | paul | internal server error when saving ! |
| 10:55 | not well-formed (invalid token) at line 15, column 34, byte 635... | |
| 10:55 | kados | in fact, I find addbiblio quite confusing |
| 10:56 | paul: I'll install unimarc koha and troubleshoot this | |
| 10:59 | paul | kados : did you tried to search /pancakes on team42 interface ? |
| 10:59 | really LOL ! | |
| 10:59 | kados | paul: :-) |
| 10:59 | paul: did ToinS discover that? :-) | |
| 10:59 | paul | yes |
| 10:59 | ToinS | yes ! |
| 11:00 | kados | it's quite funny :-) |
| 11:00 | It think there are some others as well | |
| 11:00 | paul | yep. it's the kind of goodies we could add to Koha (like pictures of the core team) |
| 11:00 | kados | yea :-) |
| 11:01 | paul | OK, 6PM, I hope i'll have a fix for this problem in koha-cvs tomorrow morning ;-) |
| 11:01 | otherwise, i'll investigate too. | |
| 11:01 | kados | ok, I"ll do my best |
| 11:01 | paul | don't forget to mail me if you find something interesting even if you don't catch the solution |
| 11:01 | kados | ok |
| 11:01 | ToinS | Bye all ... |
| 11:01 | paul | do youwant a complete french DB ? |
| 11:02 | kados | paul: yes please :-) |
| 11:16 | hdl | owen : have you tried my fix. |
| 11:16 | ? | |
| 11:16 | owen | Yes, it works great. Thank you! |
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