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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:06 | kados | Tmr: hi there! |
| 12:07 | Tmr: welcome :-) | |
| 12:07 | shedges: you too :-) | |
| 12:07 | shedges: how's the new office? :-) | |
| 12:14 | Tmr | Hi everyone I am quite new to this IRC thing I hope I manage t'night |
| 12:15 | shedges | hey kados! |
| 12:15 | BUSY! | |
| 12:15 | (There's nothing like having a Board meeting 11 days after you start a new job.) | |
| 12:25 | kados | heh |
| 13:33 | welcome back tumer :-) | |
| 13:33 | tumer: did you see my other email (public one) sent to you over the weekend? | |
| 13:34 | tumer: I asked some additional questions and also asked about your timestamp export script | |
| 13:43 | tumer | kados: sorry I am trying to sort this mIRC thing |
| 13:43 | kados | no problem :-) |
| 13:43 | I'm _very_ happy to see you here :-) | |
| 13:44 | tumer | Well i am missing my Tango milonga for this and hope doing the right thing |
| 13:45 | kados | you have a Tango / Milonga class? |
| 13:46 | tumer: the mtg does not start until 20:00 ... what time is that for you? | |
| 13:46 | http://www.timeanddate.com/wor[…]ur=20&min=0&sec=0 | |
| 13:46 | what timezone are you in? | |
| 13:46 | tumer | I am taking Tango lessons |
| 13:46 | GMT +2 | |
| 13:46 | kados | great! I was never very good at Tango |
| 13:46 | I liked to Rumba :-) | |
| 13:47 | ouch, so it will be 10:00pm for you ... | |
| 13:48 | tumer | well I used to salsa but with age wine matures! |
| 13:48 | kados | hehe |
| 13:48 | good point | |
| 13:48 | I'm afraid I am turning to vinegar with regards to dancing :-) | |
| 13:49 | tumer | even quality vinegar is expensive:-) |
| 13:49 | kados | tumer: good news is you are in the same timezone as Frenchies |
| 13:49 | tumer | they are GMT+1 an hr early |
| 13:49 | kados | really? |
| 13:50 | tumer | I am in Cyprus |
| 13:51 | kados | tumer: greece? |
| 13:52 | tumer: no kidding ... /me studied classical languages (greek and latin) as an undergrad | |
| 13:52 | kaire! | |
| 13:52 | :-) | |
| 13:52 | even 'kados' is a greek word :-) | |
| 13:53 | Paris seems to be GMT + 2 right now | |
| 13:53 | http://www.timeanddate.com/wor[…]k/city.html?n=195 | |
| 13:53 | maybe due to daylight-savings? | |
| 13:54 | tumer | well not exactly a turkish cypriot! |
| 13:54 | kados: Yep I forgot about daylight. Then I'm GMT+3 | |
| 13:55 | kados | yikes, even worse, so the mtg is 11:00PM for you |
| 13:56 | tumer | kados how do you write these special messages in different colours? |
| 13:56 | kados | type: |
| 13:56 | /me does something | |
| 13:57 | it looks like: | |
| 13:57 | tumer | type:/ tumer goes for coffee |
| 13:57 | kados | no, just: |
| 13:58 | /tumer goes for coffee | |
| 13:58 | tumer | :/ tumer goes for coffee |
| 13:58 | kados | start with the / |
| 13:58 | tumer | :tumer goes for coffee |
| 13:58 | kados | heh |
| 13:58 | no : | |
| 13:58 | just /tumer goes for coffee | |
| 13:58 | well, actually | |
| 13:58 | /me goes for coffee | |
| 13:58 | not /tumer | |
| 13:59 | yay :-) | |
| 13:59 | tumer | great;-) |
| 14:08 | kados | In fact, I hope our friends from France make it tonght |
| 14:10 | tumer | kados: can you try 212.175.151.135:8000 with user=test pass=test2 whether you can connect? |
| 14:12 | kados | I'll try |
| 14:12 | it's timing out or else very very slow | |
| 14:12 | is there a firewall? | |
| 14:13 | tumer | our lines are very slow, I'll check firewall |
| 14:15 | changed firewall, pls try again | |
| 14:15 | kados | ok |
| 14:15 | working | |
| 14:16 | ok, I'm logged in | |
| 14:16 | nice 'barcode' search | |
| 14:16 | tumer | when I discuss things I thought it will be better if I can get people to see what I mean |
| 14:16 | kados | great! |
| 14:17 | I like the useZOOM syspref :-) | |
| 14:17 | we have discussed having one for rel_2_2 | |
| 14:17 | tumer | go to catalogue search |
| 14:17 | kados | excellent! |
| 14:17 | boolean | |
| 14:18 | very nice work Tumer | |
| 14:18 | chris: you around? | |
| 14:18 | tumer | exept that everthing is PQF |
| 14:18 | kados | ahh, not CQL, eh? |
| 14:19 | tumer | nop I'am waiting you chaps for that -easy to upgrade |
| 14:19 | kados | do you update Zebra with every checkout? |
| 14:19 | ie, holdingbranch/status? | |
| 14:19 | tumer | yes |
| 14:19 | kados | very nice |
| 14:19 | we definitely need to get you involved in 3.0 | |
| 14:19 | :-) | |
| 14:19 | we're very short handed | |
| 14:20 | so development has been quite slow | |
| 14:20 | tumer: did you see the echange about 'sort by relevance'? | |
| 14:20 | tumer: it may be better for you than sort by title ... | |
| 14:21 | tumer | we can use this sort of screen in KohaCon to prove ZEBRA vs Mysql cause its just radio button selection |
| 14:21 | kados | oooh ... great point! |
| 14:21 | tumer | I am working on sort by relevance |
| 14:22 | kados | you will find that CVS is quite easy to use |
| 14:22 | tumer | I have just managed to have LC indexing sorted out |
| 14:22 | kados | especially on Windows |
| 14:22 | I hear that TortoiseCVS is quite nice | |
| 14:22 | http://www.tortoisecvs.org/ | |
| 14:23 | tumer | I'll look into CVS thing |
| 14:23 | kados | tumer: you also need to sign up at savannah: |
| 14:23 | tumer | I've got universities in Turkey wanting to know more about KOHA coming to Cyprus to see us. |
| 14:23 | kados | excellent! |
| 14:24 | tumer: https://savannah.nongnu.org/account/register.php | |
| 14:24 | tumer | And even may be the NAtional Library of Turkey is interested. I'm taking the director to Paris |
| 14:24 | kados | wow, fantastic! |
| 14:25 | tumer | that will mean 1.5M records on KOHA |
| 14:25 | kados | right |
| 14:25 | tumer: are you an employee of a library or a contractor? | |
| 14:26 | tumer | I'll sign up on savannah |
| 14:26 | kados | great, let me know your username and I'll add you to the project |
| 14:27 | tumer | Yep I'm the director of university library, I do this just for fun! |
| 14:27 | kados | excellent :-) |
| 14:27 | I began as the sys admin for Nelsonville | |
| 14:28 | now I operate LibLime.com :-) | |
| 14:28 | and NPL is one of our clients :-) | |
| 14:28 | tumer | very nice designs at liblime:-) |
| 14:28 | kados | thx |
| 14:29 | tumer | I am very confused with this utf8 problems you are all having! |
| 14:32 | griffjon | I'm trying to implement Koha as a simple library check-in-check-out system for our office's resource books (~500 books, tapes, DVDs), but I'm finding Koha to be way more than I need, and a bit difficult to work with |
| 14:33 | is there a way to import book records without using MARC records? I have titles and will have ISBNs, but don't have/want/need full MARC information | |
| 14:33 | kados | griffjon: Koha can be customized to make it much simpler for your needs |
| 14:34 | griffjon: you should be able to turn MARC off in the systempreferences | |
| 14:34 | griffjon | I've already set it to not worry about branches, etc., but for record import, the only information I've found is to go through a marc system |
| 14:34 | kados | griffjon: that may work for you |
| 14:34 | griffjon | hmmmm |
| 14:34 | I'll look at that | |
| 14:34 | is there a database schema anywhere such that I could write an SQL query to move the data over? | |
| 14:36 | kados | hmmm ... kohadocs.org would be a good place to look |
| 14:36 | tumer | griffon:what format do you have the records now? |
| 14:36 | kados | but probably your best bet is writing a script based on MARC::Record |
| 14:37 | convert your data to minimal MARC data, then import using the bulkmarcimport.pl script | |
| 14:37 | that's what we do for our customers who don't need full MARC | |
| 14:39 | griffjon | they're just in an access db that a previous it guy put together |
| 14:39 | it has title, author, and I'm intending on adding ISBN using a barcode scanner I have | |
| 14:41 | tumer | well as far as I know there are simple programs around like MARCEdit that lets you convert a text file to MARC. Simply export you db as tab delimited text and convert them to marc |
| 14:43 | MarcEdit by Terry Reese is an example -freeware | |
| 14:44 | kados | yep, good idea |
| 14:50 | T-MINUS 15 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING | |
| 14:50 | AGENDA: http://tinyurl.com/prmcm | |
| 14:51 | tumer | kados: I registerd with savannah |
| 14:52 | kados | tumer: what's your username? |
| 14:52 | tumer | tgarip1957 |
| 14:53 | kados | tumer: your account hasn't appeared yet |
| 14:53 | hiya slef | |
| 14:53 | MEETING AGENDA: http://tinyurl.com/prmcm | |
| 14:53 | slef: feel free to add stuff to the agenda if you have anything to discuss | |
| 14:54 | tumer | kados:just did |
| 14:54 | kados | tumer: ok, you're added to the project :-) |
| 14:55 | tumer: now we just need to get you set up with a CVS client :-) | |
| 14:55 | tumer | thanks! |
| 14:55 | slef | if you've the command line cvs client, just download emacs and use the menus ;-) |
| 14:55 | kados | slef: tumer uses Windows |
| 14:55 | slef | kados: emacs runs on Windows |
| 14:56 | kados | ahh, good point |
| 14:56 | tumer | and never used CVS ! |
| 14:56 | kados | I haven't used windows for so long I forget what works and doesn't :-) |
| 14:56 | slef | not sure how well it does cvs, but emacs's cvs menus are quite friendly |
| 14:56 | kados | ho z0rglub |
| 14:58 | pierrick | good night #koha |
| 14:58 | tumer | gnight |
| 14:58 | slef | pierrick: not staying for the meeting? |
| 14:59 | pierrick | slef: it's 10PM for me :-) |
| 14:59 | slef: I didn't say "good bye" :-) | |
| 14:59 | tumer | and 11pm for me :-( |
| 14:59 | slef | pierrick: time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. |
| 15:00 | pierrick | slef: you don't have kids I suppose? time is everything |
| 15:00 | kados | pierrick: in english, 'good night' usually means 'good bye', and is not normally a greeting |
| 15:00 | pierrick: though strangely, you can say 'good evening' as a greeting :-) | |
| 15:00 | slef | pierrick: we usually say "good night" at end of day, going home, off to sleep |
| 15:01 | kados | pierrick: one instance where American and English agree :-) |
| 15:01 | and looks like no kiwis are here ... | |
| 15:01 | chris or russ around yet? | |
| 15:02 | slef | j'ai cru que la francais dit le meme chose, mais je sais pas |
| 15:02 | chris | i am |
| 15:02 | pierrick | kados & slef: I know :-) it was some kind of a joke, I won't do it again, sorry ;-) |
| 15:02 | kados | pierrick: do you know if paul will be here, or hdl? |
| 15:02 | slef | pierrick: defense de rigoler en seance! |
| 15:03 | hdl | hi there. |
| 15:03 | pierrick | I have absolutely no idea about hdl and paul |
| 15:03 | (and antoine) | |
| 15:03 | kados | right |
| 15:03 | pierrick | it seems hdl is here :-) |
| 15:03 | kados | hi hdl :-) |
| 15:03 | nice crowd today | |
| 15:03 | I think we should start early for the sake of our GMT+ folks | |
| 15:04 | hdl | hi |
| 15:04 | kados | meeting agenda is here: |
| 15:04 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes06apr03 | |
| 15:04 | so first up, a few announcements | |
| 15:04 | thd | I am here now |
| 15:04 | kados | pierrick will be our new QA Manager ... he has had approval from INEO as I understand it |
| 15:04 | pierrick: that's correct, right? | |
| 15:05 | pierrick | correct |
| 15:05 | I'll answer more officialy on koha-devel | |
| 15:05 | kados | second, I've asked Tumer to become the 'Release Assistant' since he has shown so much initiative in developing perl-zoom |
| 15:05 | tumer: can you show everyone your test site? | |
| 15:05 | pierrick | yeah :-) welcome Tumer |
| 15:06 | tumer | hi all. I dont even know a release assistant does |
| 15:06 | kados | hehe, it's a title we're inventing for you :-) |
| 15:07 | pierrick | helping kados I suppose |
| 15:07 | kados | it basically means help me :-) |
| 15:07 | tumer | yep. for the site go 212.175.151.135:8000 user:test pass:test2 superlibrarian privileges |
| 15:07 | thd | tumer: if you are the release assistant, then a release assistant does whatever it is that you do :) |
| 15:08 | kados | tumer's made some very impressive leaps forward in terms of zebra integration |
| 15:08 | tumer | well than I'm releasing myself of all evil! |
| 15:08 | kados | for instance, his installation updates zebra with each circulation of an item |
| 15:08 | he also provided us with the proper way to index zebra from the command line | |
| 15:09 | and still be able to use Koha with that index | |
| 15:09 | so ... welcome to Tumer | |
| 15:09 | now, who added 'Main web editing'? | |
| 15:10 | wait ... one more announcement | |
| 15:10 | we've a new wiki: | |
| 15:10 | slef | me, but isn't wiki first? |
| 15:10 | kados | http://wiki.koha.org |
| 15:10 | thd | and what does main web editing mean? |
| 15:10 | kados | the wiki is hosted in the US on one of liblime's sites |
| 15:11 | s/sites/servers/ | |
| 15:11 | we need to transfer data from the old wiki to the new one at some point | |
| 15:12 | so if there are any volunteers for that let me know | |
| 15:12 | I'll post a mail to koha-devel about it soon | |
| 15:12 | pierrick | I am |
| 15:12 | slef | Will it look like koha.org before it's activated? |
| 15:12 | kados | pierrick: you'll volunteer? |
| 15:12 | pierrick | kados: yes |
| 15:12 | kados | pierrick: great! thanks. |
| 15:12 | pierrick | do we need to import history or is current state enough? |
| 15:13 | kados | pierrick: current state is enough |
| 15:13 | thd | kados: and presumably it will be open password protected against spam. |
| 15:13 | kados | thd: nope, there's an internal spam tracker |
| 15:13 | thd: that filters by content | |
| 15:13 | slef | Is saas.nsw.edu.au OK with the change? |
| 15:13 | kados | thd: we'll try that for a while and if it doesn't work I can add user permissions |
| 15:13 | pierrick | on dokuwiki? |
| 15:14 | spam tracker on dokuwiki ? | |
| 15:14 | kados | pierrick: yes |
| 15:14 | chris | good point we should drop roger buck (who runs saas.nsw.edu.au) an email |
| 15:14 | kados | right |
| 15:14 | there was a thread about this a while ago | |
| 15:14 | slef | chris: particularly if there will be much data downloaded. |
| 15:14 | chris | yep |
| 15:15 | kados | ok slef, you're up ... three items right? |
| 15:15 | chris | he may even be able to provide a mysql dump |
| 15:15 | kados | ooh ... that'd be nice |
| 15:15 | chris | which might make it easier |
| 15:15 | kados | chris: can you get Roger's email to pierrick? |
| 15:15 | slef | kados: Will it look like koha.org before it's activated? |
| 15:15 | kados | slef: that's a good question |
| 15:15 | chris | umm |
| 15:15 | kados | slef: i wasn't intending to change the tempalte |
| 15:15 | chris | ill have to look on the devel list and find it |
| 15:16 | slef | kados: how css'able is it? Might be able to control it from www.koha.org/includes/css/ |
| 15:16 | kados | slef: I haven't checked, but if you want to work on that I'd be happy to upload any new css files |
| 15:16 | slef | kados: can you ask what people would prefer, in your announcement email? |
| 15:17 | kados | slef: prefer as far as look and feel? |
| 15:17 | slef | kados: yes, whether it's easier to use as dokuwiki-look, or would be better looking like koha.org |
| 15:17 | pierrick | slef: I know many Dokuwiki installation very "customized" so I suppose CSS is used to manage look&feel |
| 15:18 | slef | or whether it matters at all to anyone :) |
| 15:18 | pierrick | I customized my Dokuwiki a little, it was easy |
| 15:18 | kados | chris: roger at hrothgar.co.uk is that it? |
| 15:18 | chris | no |
| 15:18 | slef | kados: no! |
| 15:18 | chris | he is australian :) |
| 15:18 | rogsaas.nsw.edu.au |
|
| 15:18 | kados | ahh |
| 15:18 | ok, cool, thanks | |
| 15:19 | slef | ok, I'm out of questions on wiki for now. |
| 15:19 | pierrick | I'll ask him a dump :-) |
| 15:19 | kados | slef: I'll ask that question in my email |
| 15:19 | slef: so over to you | |
| 15:19 | thd | I think it matters for giving a good impression of Koha to those who have not investigated enough to look past mere appearance |
| 15:20 | kados | Main Web Editing |
| 15:20 | slef | Main web editing - I have editor access to www.koha.org now. I don't know if I'm the first European, so if you want to discuss updates in English daytime, I'm here. |
| 15:20 | kados | one thing to change: |
| 15:20 | Koha at Sourceforge | |
| 15:20 | on the front page | |
| 15:20 | slef | Also, if you have suggestions to improve accessibility, let me know (spotted another one today) |
| 15:20 | kados | should be Koha at Savannah |
| 15:20 | slef | kados: OK, I'll get that. New URL? |
| 15:21 | kados | https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha |
| 15:21 | pierrick | slef: are you joking ? |
| 15:21 | kados | I think I have editor access but I've long forgotten the url/user/pass :-) |
| 15:21 | slef | pierrick: not right now. Why? |
| 15:22 | kados | ok, moving along ... New blogs plan? |
| 15:22 | chris | ahh that sneaked on when russ did the koha conf bit |
| 15:22 | (sourceforge) | |
| 15:22 | kados | however, I'm planning on putting together a new blog shortly that will just be about libraries and open source |
| 15:22 | slef | There will be an upgrade to owu.towers.org.uk "soon" which will make the koha blogs look like the main site |
| 15:23 | kados | and will be hosted on liblime.com |
| 15:23 | pierrick | slef: I thought every Koha members knew Savannah Koha page :-/ |
| 15:23 | kados | excellent |
| 15:23 | slef | Does anyone know where blogs.koha.org is pointing? |
| 15:23 | chris | nowhere? |
| 15:23 | slef | pierrick: there are two or three pages for each savannah project. I'd rather link to the RM's preferred one! |
| 15:23 | chris | i look after the dns |
| 15:23 | where would you like it pointed slef? | |
| 15:24 | slef | chris: should the link be on www.koha.org? |
| 15:24 | kados | yea, as 'Blogs', definitely |
| 15:24 | chris | to the blog aggregator? ... yeah i reckon so |
| 15:24 | slef | I don't mind, but it seemed odd for it to have a link. |
| 15:24 | I'll just change the href URL, if that's OK. | |
| 15:24 | chris | thats fine |
| 15:25 | slef | pierrick: http://koha.nongnu.org/ is a bit empty, though :-D |
| 15:25 | kados | yea, someone wanna spruce that up? |
| 15:25 | you can check out the web repo | |
| 15:25 | in fact, that could be a mirror of the koha.org site | |
| 15:25 | slef | kados: can we revisit one meeting when russ is here to tell us how to mirror? |
| 15:26 | kados | sure |
| 15:26 | slef | ok, I'm done, if there are no more www or blogs questions/requests. |
| 15:26 | kados | slef: all set on the blogs plan? |
| 15:26 | pierrick: wanna talk about the Extension Manager? | |
| 15:26 | chris | id probably just set up an rsync cron job to do the mirroring slef but we can cover that when russ is around |
| 15:26 | pierrick | kados: right |
| 15:27 | I've proposed kados to help him preparing a Koha extension manager | |
| 15:27 | the extension manager would be an online application where users would share their extensions | |
| 15:28 | an extension can be a new template, a translation, an additional tool | |
| 15:28 | kados | we also need some way to 'install' and 'uninstall' extensions I bet |
| 15:28 | it would really be cool to have an extensions framework like Mambo or Wordpress | |
| 15:28 | pierrick | each extension would have a README explaining how to install and uninstall I suppose |
| 15:28 | slef | like http://modules.apache.org/ ? |
| 15:29 | pierrick | slef: yeah, more like http://phpwebgallery.net/ext in fact ;-) |
| 15:29 | kados | I'm guessing more like http://mamboxchange.com/ |
| 15:30 | pierrick | kados: a plugin manager is a complicated task, very complicated |
| 15:30 | thd | pierrick: what would distinguish extensions from base code? |
| 15:30 | russ | hi everyone |
| 15:30 | pierrick | hi russ |
| 15:30 | thd | hello russ |
| 15:30 | chris | i think we dont want to reach to far to start |
| 15:30 | kados | pierrick: agreed,, but it would also help us narrow down a definition of the core functionality of an 'ILS' |
| 15:30 | hey russ | |
| 15:30 | pierrick | thd: for example a template is clearly an extension. Only 2 templates in standard : PROG and default |
| 15:30 | slef | hi russ |
| 15:31 | chris | if there was a place for people to upload their extensions and others to download .. and we left the installation/uninstallation documentation up to the extension writers |
| 15:31 | much like user contribs to oscommerce say | |
| 15:31 | then thats a great first step | |
| 15:31 | pierrick | thd: plugin or MODs are other kind of extensions. They are features not officialy added |
| 15:32 | chris: I agree | |
| 15:32 | chris | if we try to aim on building a plugin handler, in a years time we still wont have an extensions site :-) |
| 15:32 | kados | chris: good point |
| 15:32 | pierrick | chris: that's what I do elsewhere and it works well |
| 15:32 | kados | we've already got a lot on our plate with 3.0 |
| 15:32 | chris | yep |
| 15:32 | thd | pierrick: what are MODs? |
| 15:32 | kados | so maybe just a simple way to upload / download / document |
| 15:32 | thd: modifications | |
| 15:32 | pierrick | thd: code modifications |
| 15:32 | chris | yeah, thats what pierrick was planning i think |
| 15:33 | pierrick | kados: PEM is the PhpWebGallery Extension Manager, it is GPL software :-) |
| 15:33 | kados | ok, sorry to have overstepped the scope, I've got visions you know :-) |
| 15:33 | chris | and then we can build a fancy plugin handler if/when time permits or someone |
| 15:33 | thd | MODs are mods. :) |
| 15:33 | chris | has the desire |
| 15:33 | slef | as someone whose work includes installing oscommerce contributions, I'd like to say FCOL NOOOooo...! |
| 15:33 | tumer | do we expect these extensions to pour in? who else but us writing code? |
| 15:33 | chris | quite a few people tumer |
| 15:34 | pierrick | tumer: I think first of templates, not code |
| 15:34 | slef | tumer: need to make them easy to install, easy to develop, easy to understand, well-documented, promoted, and so on. |
| 15:34 | chris | slef: i see that as the extension writers problem |
| 15:34 | pierrick | in PEM, each extension has several revision, and each each revision of an extension is compatible with a/some Koha releases |
| 15:35 | you can filter extensions compatible with you Koha 3.0.1 installation | |
| 15:35 | kados | pierrick: so you're suggesting we actually use PEM? |
| 15:35 | pierrick | kados: of course |
| 15:35 | kados | pierrick: got a url? |
| 15:35 | tumer | who checks that a script extension does not really mess up customers installation |
| 15:35 | slef | chris: having rankings and details of what's inside (patch files, and so on) would be a big big help. Almost no contribution author ever writes "here you go, but my work is crap". |
| 15:35 | russ: speedy. | |
| 15:36 | pierrick | the project page or a demo ? |
| 15:36 | chris | slef: true, we could let users rank them |
| 15:36 | thd | tumer: the QA manager would be pierrick |
| 15:36 | pierrick | https://gna.org/projects/pem/ |
| 15:37 | tumer | thd: so pierrick checks every extension? |
| 15:37 | slef | chris: helping them with how to write good patches or mod scripts is probably essential too. |
| 15:37 | pierrick | PEM requires improvement, I'm working on it |
| 15:37 | chris | slef: yep they will require feedback |
| 15:37 | pierrick | tumer: extensions are not official |
| 15:38 | kados | pierrick: this is your project? :-) |
| 15:38 | slef | chris: I'm thinking more of an extension framework a bit more than shove-it-in-a-zip |
| 15:38 | pierrick | tumer: extensions are shared among users, we can't check every extension |
| 15:38 | kados | hold on guys, pierrick is in fact the project admin for PEM |
| 15:38 | chris | and that might be our end goal |
| 15:38 | tumer | pierrick: extensions on official site messing up installations could be damaging |
| 15:38 | thd | tumer: it should be easy to check until there are a nontrivial number of extensions and then I agree it would be a problem for checking |
| 15:39 | slef | pierrick: is its manual GPL? |
| 15:39 | pierrick | kados: a virtual friend wrote it for PhpWebGallery and we are working together to improve it and to make it generic |
| 15:39 | chris | but id like to at least get somewhere people can put up their templates, and firefox extensions for now |
| 15:39 | kados | chris: kohazilla.org :-) |
| 15:39 | slef | tumer: should we have http://extensions.unofficial.koha.org/ ? |
| 15:39 | tumer | something like that |
| 15:39 | pierrick | slef: what do you mean "manual GPL" ? PEM is under GPL. |
| 15:40 | chris | a nice disclaimer would be good too |
| 15:40 | slef | pierrick: someone told me gna.org required you to use the adware FDL for manuals. |
| 15:40 | kados | pierrick: here's my take |
| 15:41 | pierrick: we're very short-handed right now | |
| 15:41 | pierrick: 3.0 development is going at a snails pace | |
| 15:41 | pierrick: so if you have time to spend integrating a PEM framework into Koha, by all means do | |
| 15:41 | pierrick | slef: PEM is not a manual, it's an application (and I don't really understand what you mean with "adware FDL") |
| 15:41 | thd | slef: FDL will be revised to correct that problem after GPL V3 |
| 15:42 | slef | chris: "Warning: We don't approve it. If it breaks then you get to keep both pieces." |
| 15:42 | kados | pierrick: but I can tell you right now, I won't be able to spend any time on it other than seeing how ti works |
| 15:42 | chris | yes slef |
| 15:42 | kados | pierrick: unless I'm misreading what your suggestion is |
| 15:42 | pierrick | kados: what do you mean "PEM framework integration into Koha" ? I had a mind a "PEM installation on koha.org" |
| 15:42 | slef | pierrick: does it have no manuals? |
| 15:43 | kados | pierrick: I see ... |
| 15:43 | pierrick: I missunderstood what PEM is | |
| 15:43 | pierrick | slef: no manual for now |
| 15:43 | kados | pierrick: in that case, go for it |
| 15:43 | thd | pierrick: I will explain the GNU Free Documentation License to you later |
| 15:43 | pierrick | PEM is an online application, quite a simple one in fact, but I didn't find anything like it |
| 15:43 | slef | thd: and LPI will release xamnet, Ubuntu will release Rosetta, and CC will release a version that is usable for free software, later. Vapourware. Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. |
| 15:44 | kados | pierrick: great, in that case, go for it |
| 15:44 | we should move on because tumer must be getting tired :-) | |
| 15:44 | pierrick | kados: OK |
| 15:44 | kados | so Perl-ZOOM plugin |
| 15:45 | I just lost power | |
| 15:45 | chris | ok |
| 15:45 | kados | so if my internet goes away, that's why |
| 15:45 | tumer | so did i |
| 15:45 | kados | (running off the UPS now) |
| 15:46 | chris | basically i think between what tumer and joshua and I have done |
| 15:46 | thd | slef it is true that even GPL V3 was vapourware for 4 years but it is promised to ship on time unlike Microsoft stuff next year |
| 15:46 | chris | we are about there, i just need to see tumer's code |
| 15:46 | slef | thd: later. |
| 15:46 | chris | and then it will be merging/tidying and packagin |
| 15:46 | g | |
| 15:48 | tumer | I have no CQL running all PQF waiting for you chaps. but I had to have it working very quickly. i'll send all the code to chris |
| 15:48 | chris | fantastic |
| 15:49 | kados | s00t |
| 15:49 | w00t even :-) | |
| 15:49 | slef | What's PQF? ;-) |
| 15:49 | tumer | waiting for me? |
| 15:50 | kados | tumer: sure |
| 15:50 | tumer | PQf or RPN whatever you wanna call it. |
| 15:51 | slef | Reverse Polish Notation, I know |
| 15:51 | tumer | Chris the code will be with you tomorrow its on the server that I cannot reach at the momemnt |
| 15:51 | kados | excellent, thanks tumer! |
| 15:51 | chris | no problemo |
| 15:51 | i have a bunch of marc data to fight with today anyway | |
| 15:51 | kados | final item is UNICODE status for head |
| 15:52 | which I added | |
| 15:52 | I haven't had a chance to test pierrick's method yet | |
| 15:52 | and in fact, pierrick, could we talk tomorrow about that? | |
| 15:52 | pierrick | kados: sure |
| 15:52 | kados | ok ... great |
| 15:52 | tumer | I wanna suggest some changes to zoom connectins and so on who do I do that? |
| 15:52 | kados | tumer: koha-devel |
| 15:52 | thd | slef: I believe RPN is used at a low level below CQL. |
| 15:52 | chris | thats right |
| 15:53 | kados | tumer: or right now you can suggest them |
| 15:53 | tumer: while we're all here | |
| 15:53 | tumer | RPN is very fast but not friendly |
| 15:53 | I dont like anonymous acces with rw privileges | |
| 15:53 | have two connections | |
| 15:53 | chris | yeah that needs to be fixed |
| 15:53 | kados | tumer: easy to fix |
| 15:54 | tumer: there's a passwdc: option | |
| 15:54 | tumer | have a password protected connection for updating |
| 15:54 | kados | ahh, cool |
| 15:54 | tumer | I already have that on mine |
| 15:54 | kados | so you've already done that :-) |
| 15:54 | chris | cool |
| 15:54 | tumer | yep |
| 15:54 | kados | more code for us to steal :-) |
| 15:54 | yea, maybe you should be the release manager, I'll be the assiatant :-) | |
| 15:54 | tumer | I'll commit them if I learn this CVS |
| 15:55 | kados | excellent! |
| 15:55 | tumer | also have backup system |
| 15:55 | chris | tumer: do you drink alcohol? |
| 15:55 | if so, i figure we owe you a few beers at the koha conference :) | |
| 15:55 | tumer | More than youy know |
| 15:55 | kados | hehe |
| 15:55 | yea, beers are on me too :-) | |
| 15:56 | tumer garip rocks ! :-) | |
| 15:56 | ok, I've got another meeting to go | |
| 15:56 | pierrick | tumer: if you have problems with CVS, you can ask me on #koha |
| 15:56 | kados | slef: no kidding, it's crazy in france right now :-) |
| 15:56 | chris | still strikes on slef? |
| 15:56 | slef | Mayday<fx:mumbles /> |
| 15:56 | kados | so meeting's closed :-) |
| 15:56 | tumer | Should I come to Paris or Marseilles? |
| 15:57 | chris | slef, russ and I will be transiting heathrow on the 30th .. can u fit i a suitcase? |
| 15:57 | slef | chris: Mayday tends to be a pretty popular strike time, what with Labour day then too |
| 15:57 | chris | marseilles would be the most useful i think tumer |
| 15:57 | slef | chris: I try to avoid flying and dumping CO2 in the atmosphere, when there are usually cool trains to use. |
| 15:58 | chris | fair enough |
| 15:58 | pierrick | tomorrow is another big strikes day but I think the movement is "decreasing" |
| 15:58 | slef | I def can't make Marseilles, as I booked a trip the following weekend, like 3 days before I read about kohacon. |
| 15:59 | chris | paris will be good too |
| 15:59 | hdl | agress. |
| 15:59 | slef | pierrick: wait a few days and Sarkozy will say something stupid to start it again |
| 15:59 | chris | but Marseilles is where we will be concentrating on the development side |
| 15:59 | if that helps you decide tumer? | |
| 15:59 | hdl | thanks for all the information everybody. |
| 16:00 | Time to go to bed. | |
| 16:00 | slef | give me an AV or SIP or even IRC feed! ;-) |
| 16:00 | chris | yeah, well sort something out :) |
| 16:00 | pierrick | slef: Sarkozy does not say things stupid, it's Chirac and Villepin job :-) Sarkozy plays with media and barely make mistakes |
| 16:00 | chris | we'll |
| 16:01 | ohh french politics .. this meeting could go on for hours :-) | |
| 16:01 | slef | pierrick: so all those suburb youths a few months ago shouting his name while throwing firebombs wasn't Sarkozy's fault? ;-) |
| 16:01 | chris: I think the meeting was closed up there ^^ wasn't it? | |
| 16:01 | <kados> so meeting's closed :-) | |
| 16:01 | chris | yep, i was joking |
| 16:01 | slef | had me worried |
| 16:01 | chris | ok, thanks from me as well, i better go get some coffee and start work |
| 16:01 | pierrick | slef: well you're right, I had forgotten what he had said a few month ago :-) |
| 16:02 | tumer | I am also a bit pushed as I want to bring the National library director with me. It may have to be Paris |
| 16:02 | chris | ahhh |
| 16:02 | that would be best for the director | |
| 16:02 | we can have a meeting after the conference on one of the nights | |
| 16:02 | and talk development issues | |
| 16:03 | i know there are great cafe's in paris :-) | |
| 16:03 | tumer | chris:yep, and beers! |
| 16:03 | chris | :) |
| 16:03 | thd | tumer do you mean the director of BNF? |
| 16:03 | chris | i doubt it thd |
| 16:03 | tumer | Director of National Library of Turkey |
| 16:04 | They are about to be converted to KOHa | |
| 16:04 | chris | rock on |
| 16:04 | thats awesome | |
| 16:04 | thd | tumer: I had not yet discovered where you were |
| 16:04 | russ | woo that is good news |
| 16:05 | tumer | with some development money. turkish translations the lot:) |
| 16:05 | chris | great |
| 16:06 | thd | tumer:will they be converting wholly to Koha or just in part? |
| 16:06 | tumer | Thats why I have to get the system ready for 1.5M records soon |
| 16:06 | From Aleph to KOHA everything | |
| 16:07 | On the line 2 universities converting from Millenium to KOHA | |
| 16:07 | thd | tumer: I guess that answers my question if the total size is 1.5 million records. |
| 16:07 | tumer | Thats the first amount of records they are giving us |
| 16:08 | thd | tumer: what is the total size of the collection for the Turkish national library |
| 16:08 | ? | |
| 16:09 | tumer | About 2.5million but they said they will put other archive on it up to 4M |
| 16:11 | thd | tumer: what distinguishes the content of the 1.5 M from 2.5 M and then 4 M? |
| 16:11 | tumer | 1.5M books 1M manuscripts rest maps and photos |
| 16:12 | thd | tumer: do they use LC classification for the whole collection? |
| 16:13 | tumer | Dewey |
| 16:13 | We use LC | |
| 16:13 | By sept we'll have 300K records on ours | |
| 16:14 | thd | tumer: who is we? |
| 16:14 | tumer | Near East University Library-Cyprus |
| 16:15 | I have to go. G'night and bon nuit! | |
| 16:15 | thd | good night tumer |
| 18:19 | rach | wow - that's pretty cool |
| 18:20 | I wonder if we could do a release about the turky national library? | |
| 03:08 | hdl | hello ToinS and paul |
| 03:08 | ToinS | hello ! |
| 03:08 | paul | hello aussi |
| 03:08 | très mauvaise nuit qui explique mon absence d'hier soir : bébé jérémie a fait des siennes... | |
| 03:08 | (et madame n'était pas là !) | |
| 03:09 | j'ai lu les logs du meeting. | |
| 03:09 | pas mal de choses. j'espère qu'on pourra embarquer Tümer... | |
| 03:09 | il me semble être un bonne recrue ! | |
| 03:09 | chris | evening |
| 03:09 | paul | hi chris. |
| 03:10 | you can tell russ that registrations for KohaCon grow quite rapidly. | |
| 03:10 | chris | excellent |
| 03:10 | paul | an announcement has been done on the largest mailing list (biblio-fr). |
| 03:10 | chris | i heard today that Irma is considering coming as well |
| 03:10 | paul | great. |
| 03:11 | (for which meeting ?) | |
| 03:12 | chris | the Paris one |
| 03:12 | Un café, s'il vous plaît | |
| 03:12 | paul | you've never been in France chris ? |
| 03:13 | chris | yep ive been to Paris before |
| 03:13 | for 1 week, in 1999 | |
| 03:13 | paul | so you already know how smiling "garcons de café" are... |
| 03:13 | in Marseille, ppl are smiling much much more. | |
| 03:14 | chris | :) |
| 03:14 | this is a useful phrase | |
| 03:14 | Pardon, mais je ne parle pas français | |
| 03:15 | i found that if I tried to order in French, people were nice | |
| 03:15 | i think they appreciate you are trying | |
| 03:18 | paul | everyone is right ;-) |
| 03:18 | chris | :) |
| 03:21 | did you see Tumer say that the Director of the National Library of Turkey is coming? | |
| 03:22 | paul | yep. Although I did not realize it was sure |
| 03:24 | chris | some very interesting news from him at the meeting |
| 03:25 | maybe we can do some press releases about it from the conference | |
| 04:40 | paul | pierrick : |
| 04:40 | http://bureau.paulpoulain.com/cvslog/ | |
| 04:40 | est un lien qui pourrait t'intéresser. | |
| 04:41 | plg est 25°, en forte progression. On surveille son activité, mais il pourrait rentrer rapidement dans le top 10 des développeurs... | |
| 04:54 | pierrick | paul, erreur 404 |
| 04:55 | paul | et ca : |
| 04:55 | http://bureau.paulpoulain.com/[…]builder_koha.html | |
| 04:55 | ? | |
| 04:55 | pierrick | paul, ce stats sont basées sur le nombre de commit, or j'ai l'habitude de faire plutôt peu de commits, mais gros, donc je risque d'être mal classé, mais je m'en remettrai :-) |
| 04:56 | toujours pas | |
| 04:56 | paul | c'est clair que acli commitait 5x par jour. |
| 04:56 | ce qui explique son classement ! | |
| 04:56 | alors que proportionnellement, il a fait peu de choses (mais très précieuses) | |
| 04:56 | (les outils d'internationalisation principalement) | |
| 04:56 | pierrick | là par exemple, je vais faire un gros commit |
| 04:57 | paul | does someone know how to have a smaller or larger cursor with CSS ? |
| 04:57 | kados uses se-resize in MARC editor, but it's tricky to select what you want to resize | |
| 04:57 | (as the cursor is large, and the link small) | |
| 04:58 | http://i8.bureau.paulpoulain.c[…]mple/addbiblio.pl | |
| 04:58 | (login test/test) | |
| 04:58 | (the small abz just below 020 for example) | |
| 05:00 | pierrick | my cursor is different over abz |
| 05:00 | some kind of reversed arrow | |
| 05:00 | paul | it's the se-resize |
| 05:00 | (south-east resize) | |
| 05:00 | pierrick | OK, is that Javascript ? |
| 05:01 | paul | yep. |
| 05:01 | (javascript is mandatory in librarian interface) | |
| 05:01 | pierrick | I'm not Javascript expert at all, newbie in reality |
| 05:01 | paul | my problem is not a js one I think, but a css one. |
| 05:02 | pierrick | paul, I'm not sure you can modify cursor appearance with CSS |
| 05:08 | huge commit done :-) | |
| 05:08 | slef | http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/ui.html#cursor-props |
| 05:08 | pierrick | I'm going to send a mail on koha-devel to explain what pagination_bar function is and how it simplifies tempaltes |
| 05:09 | slef, interesting | |
| 05:12 | paul | writing : |
| 05:12 | + $pagination_bar.= | |
| 05:12 | + "\n".' ' | |
| 05:12 | + .'<a href="' | |
| 05:12 | + .$url.$previous | |
| 05:12 | + .'" rel="prev">' | |
| 05:12 | + .'<' | |
| 05:12 | + .'</a>' | |
| 05:12 | + ; | |
| 05:13 | for sure you'll become the 1st commiter in term of lines soon ;-) | |
| 05:13 | (just a joke, i'm OK with this syntax, it's easy to read) | |
| 05:14 | slef | < is the only link text? Hope the font's large! |
| 05:15 | pierrick | paul, my lines will never exceed 8 chars, but you're right on this example, I cut very early |
| 05:15 | paul | 8 chars ? |
| 05:15 | quite small :-D | |
| 05:15 | pierrick | slef, I had to find a non language dependent string |
| 05:16 | s{8(?:[^\d])}{80} | |
| 07:24 | hdl | bonjour pierrick_ :D |
| 07:28 | pierrick_ | salut hdl |
| 08:34 | paul | hi shedges. |
| 08:35 | (did I read correctly : you have a new job ?) | |
| 08:35 | yesterday : [19:15:59] <shedges> (There's nothing like having a Board meeting 11 days after you start a new job.) | |
| 08:37 | shedges | yep. Executive Director of OPLIN, Ohio Public Library Information Network: www.oplin.org |
| 08:38 | paul | position added to director of NPL ? or you have left NPL ? |
| 08:38 | shedges | I've left NPL. |
| 08:38 | paul | www.oplin.org is down. |
| 08:38 | the new director is known ? | |
| 08:39 | shedges | I have to drive about 100 KM each day to get to this new job. |
| 08:39 | Yes, new director is the former assistant director | |
| 08:39 | paul | bad. You plan to move ? |
| 08:39 | shedges | no, I don't plan to move. |
| 08:39 | paul | who was ... ? |
| 08:39 | shedges | (The roads are good, it's an easy drive) |
| 08:39 | paul | (did we meet him last year ?) |
| 08:39 | shedges | Assistant Director --> Director Lauren Miller (her) |
| 08:40 | No, she says we didn't let her meet you folks!! | |
| 08:40 | paul | as director, she now can decide it'si mportant to come to France in May ;-) |
| 08:41 | shedges | right! |
| 08:41 | http://www.oplin.org/ working fine here | |
| 08:42 | paul | "no anwser from the server" in France |
| 08:43 | kados | working here as well |
| 08:43 | morning guys | |
| 08:43 | paul | hi kados. |
| 08:43 | commiting some improvements to MARC editors in the next minutes. | |
| 08:43 | kados | paul: great! |
| 08:44 | paul | ( the + on a field works as on a subfield : without server call, only javascript. Was very easy once + on a subfield has been written ;-) ) |
| 08:44 | kados | paul: i got a start at re-writing the opencataloger spec |
| 08:44 | paul: wow, great news! | |
| 08:44 | http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.p[…]catalogingproject | |
| 08:44 | paul | ToinS is learning XUL & xmlHTTPrequest. |
| 08:44 | kados | great! |
| 08:44 | paul | seems to learn quite fast |
| 08:44 | kados | good news |
| 08:45 | paul | (& I won't say he don't, as he is reading the channel ;-) ) |
| 08:45 | kados | hehe |
| 08:45 | hi ToinS | |
| 08:45 | paul | we spoke a little of our yesterday meeting. |
| 08:46 | kados | shedges: you might find the 'unapi' specification : http://unapi.info |
| 08:46 | shedges: it was created by techno-librarians | |
| 08:46 | paul: yes? | |
| 08:46 | paul | It seems to me that the client side should be unique, whatever we want to edit |
| 08:46 | we will have 2 or maybe 3 webservices that will be different depending on sources | |
| 08:47 | (koha, Pines, something elst) | |
| 08:47 | ToinS | hi kados |
| 08:47 | paul | and destination (koha, pines, a ftp server where you put iso2709 biblios...) |
| 08:48 | a question : do we want to be able to edit something that is not MARCXML ? | |
| 08:49 | (like dublin core) | |
| 08:50 | kados | yes |
| 08:50 | paul | if yes, then we need to build an abstraction layer. |
| 08:50 | kados | well, i think that's what miker had in mind |
| 08:50 | paul | something like an XSL to transform the input format in something generic for us. |
| 08:50 | that's what I thought too. | |
| 08:50 | kados | http://open-ils.org/~miker/opencat.png |
| 08:50 | yes, XSLT might work well for that | |
| 08:51 | paul | the question being : can such a stylesheet be written ? |
| 08:52 | kados | I think one probably already exists |
| 08:52 | pines uses xslt for some things I think | |
| 08:52 | paul | http://www.loc.gov/marc/marc2dc.html |
| 08:52 | http://www.loc.gov/marc/dccross.html | |
| 08:53 | kados | and also, the previous class's code uses a marc xslt stylesheet (probably the ones you link to above) |
| 08:53 | paul | pines uses DC internally ? |
| 08:53 | kados | no |
| 08:53 | they use MODS | |
| 08:53 | kind of | |
| 08:53 | actually, they create their own 'meta records' | |
| 08:54 | http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/ | |
| 08:54 | you'll have to ask miker for the particulars | |
| 09:04 | paul | kados : addbiblio.tmpl commited. |
| 09:04 | look for cloneTag | |
| 09:04 | (default templates) | |
| 09:18 | slef | whoops, left myself idle here |
| 09:19 | sorry all | |
| 09:25 | kados | paul: I'll check |
| 09:25 | paul: I have something to add as well | |
| 09:25 | paul: in the NPL template, there is a new feature for 'auto-renew' a member | |
| 09:25 | paul: it needs to be adjusted to set the date to the one specified in sysprefs | |
| 09:26 | paul: also, note that the AdvancedMarcEditor syspref breaks the marc editor (at least it did for me) and I haven't h ad a chance to fix it yet | |
| 09:27 | paul: and I thought it was going to be Koha 2.2.6, not Koha 2.4 ... | |
| 09:27 | paul: I will have stephen change my documentation on kohadocs.org | |
| 09:27 | paul | look at my commit, it seems to work for me (advMARCeditor) |
| 09:27 | kados | shedges: did you catch that? :-) |
| 09:27 | paul: I will check it out | |
| 09:27 | paul | mmm... I thought we all agree to call it 2.4.0 |
| 09:28 | kados | sure, fine with me |
| 09:28 | paul | & it seems a good idea to me. |
| 09:28 | kados | yep |
| 09:28 | so 2.2 is no longer maintained then? | |
| 09:28 | paul | right. I consider 2.4.0 as 2.2.x improvement. |
| 09:28 | kados | ok, good |
| 09:28 | paul | (no change in the DB) |
| 09:28 | kados | right |
| 09:29 | paul | + easier to explain to customers that it's an important upgrade, with many new things. |
| 09:29 | kados | yep |
| 09:29 | paul | (I will have a bunch of questions to ask to most of them "did you see XXX. I think you'll be interested, do you want me to explain deeper the feature & set it up ?" |
| 09:32 | kados | right |
| 09:49 | slef | what tag is 2.4? savannah's webcvs doesn't work for me |
| 09:52 | paul | 2.4.0 is still rel_2_2 |
| 09:52 | I'll create a rel_2_4 after the release. | |
| 09:53 | slef | thanks |
| 09:56 | "The installer is *wrong* on languages available" -- why not mention that to me, instead of putting an "up yours" in the release notes? | |
| 09:56 | then I can fix it before release | |
| 09:56 | grmbl | |
| 09:59 | "Everything is previous versions" -- that means what? | |
| 10:00 | paul | on which line ? |
| 10:00 | found | |
| 10:00 | everything is compatible with previous versions | |
| 10:01 | 2 words missing :-( | |
| 10:02 | kados | paul: i'll edit the release notes this afternoon |
| 10:02 | paul: it's on my list for today :-) | |
| 10:02 | paul | kados : note that slef does it too. |
| 10:03 | kados | ahh, in that case ... |
| 10:03 | slef: are you reading through/editing all of the release notes? | |
| 10:03 | slef: or just certain sections? | |
| 10:03 | slef: I'll leave it to you if you're already working on it | |
| 10:03 | hey owen | |
| 10:04 | owen | Hi |
| 10:04 | slef | kados: I'm going through it all, checking for language, not content |
| 10:05 | kados | slef: excellent |
| 10:05 | slef | apart from where I can't understand the language as a result! ;-) |
| 10:05 | kados | slef: I'll leave that to you then :-) |
| 10:05 | slef | currently 51% done |
| 10:05 | paul | hi owen. |
| 10:06 | slef | paul: neither English has spaces before ! and ? on end of sentences. I know that's hard, as I do the wrong thing in French again and again and again. |
| 10:06 | paul | thanks. I knew the rule for :, but not for ? or ! |
| 10:06 | is there something that has a space before ? | |
| 10:07 | is there something that has a space before? | |
| 10:07 | ;-) | |
| 10:07 | slef | I think : can be done either way, depending on situation, but not ?! |
| 10:08 | I'm editing content: changing amazon bit "it's not legal" to "it may not be legal" and similar in line 101. I think claims of legality need more research and references than we want to put in the release notes. | |
| 10:09 | paul | right. good suggestion. |
| 10:10 | kados | ahhh |
| 10:10 | hang on | |
| 10:11 | I emailed amazon.com several months back | |
| 10:11 | it's 100% legal | |
| 10:11 | you can referece their terms of use | |
| 10:11 | paul | in France, librarians tells me it's not legal without explicit permission from each editor. |
| 10:12 | kados | maybe we're talking about two different sides of 'legal' |
| 10:12 | paul | seems to be really a problem : nobody tried, so nobody really knows, but everybody has an opinion ! |
| 10:12 | (in France I mean) | |
| 10:12 | kados | is it legal for amazon to offer content to libraries? yes! |
| 10:12 | is it legal for libraries to use the content, in france we don't know | |
| 10:13 | paul | is it legal in france to show the cover page : NO. |
| 10:13 | kados | ahh ... a separate issue altogether |
| 10:13 | slef | kados: France has author's rights laws, a bit different to copyright law. So, I'd be cautious about this whole area :) |
| 10:13 | kados | does amazon.fr show the cover page? |
| 10:13 | I see they do | |
| 10:13 | paul | in france, you can show the cover pages, but only if you ask for permission to the editor. |
| 10:14 | (each editor I mean) | |
| 10:14 | slef | kados: do they have agreements with the producers and/or willing to test it in court? possibly. |
| 10:14 | Contador wins! | |
| 10:14 | kados | :-) |
| 10:14 | paul | I think a bookseller will never have problems with cover pages, as they ... sell the book ! |
| 10:14 | kados | right |
| 10:15 | paul | but libraries don't sell books. And a few years ago, editors wanted a fee from libraries each time the book was issued |
| 10:15 | kados | ok, but please don't frame it in a way that will scare folks away from usnig it :-) |
| 10:15 | paul | (something like 1F, 0,15€) |
| 10:15 | kados | wow, that's crazy |
| 10:15 | paul | french government said "it's a cultur problem, not a seller one. so => no" |
| 10:16 | but editors are still hidden in the dark, waiting for their prey... | |
| 10:16 | slef | submarines :-( |
| 10:16 | paul | for example, libraries can issue DVD & VHS, but they have to pay a specific fee. |
| 10:17 | slef | checkin |
| 10:18 | hrm, 1. Sanchez 2. Contador... guess that | |
| 10:18 | 's the stage. I don't speak Euskal | |
| 10:18 | Euskara even | |
| 10:18 | Basque :) | |
| 10:19 | must annoy them that English uses the French name. | |
| 10:24 | kados: argh! don't top-post whole-quote, please! | |
| 10:24 | pierrick | migration to Dokuwiki is well advanced, but there are still some syntax really hard to migrate |
| 10:25 | slef | pierrick: does/can Dokuwiki use http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TextFormattingRules ? |
| 10:25 | kados | slef: argh! don't tell me not to do that, please! some people like top-posting |
| 10:27 | pierrick | slef, Dokuwiki is not compatible with the rules you gave me. You show me rules of the current wiki |
| 10:37 | slef | kados: some people like suiciding. Doesn't mean I must like it. |
| 10:37 | kados | slef: what a comparison |
| 10:37 | slef | pierrick: so Dokuwiki can't use wiki text? |
| 10:37 | kados | slef: that extra 200 bytes really makes a difference ;-) |
| 10:38 | pierrick | paul, slef does not like top-posting |
| 10:38 | paul | what is top-posting ? |
| 10:38 | pierrick | I don't either |
| 10:38 | answering before the question | |
| 10:38 | slef | paul: when the email says something like: |
| 10:39 | paul | ah, ok |
| 10:39 | pierrick | (is the logical reading order) |
| 10:39 | slef | A. Because he went there. |
| 10:39 | > Q. Why did the chicken cross the road? | |
| 10:39 | paul | answering before the question |
| 10:39 | I hate it too ;-) | |
| 10:39 | slef | I scroll to end of quote and wonder why someone sent a message that only quoted. |
| 10:40 | pierrick | slef, you have to accept it. It's impossible to make everybody use logical rules |
| 10:40 | paul | I also hate 250 lines quoted for just 1 line "OK, thanks" at the end ! |
| 10:40 | slef | paul: that's called AOLing |
| 10:40 | kados | hehe |
| 10:40 | pierrick | the most important is to avoid mixing top posting and bottom posting |
| 10:40 | paul | lol ! |
| 10:40 | pierrick | (in the same mail) |
| 10:40 | slef | pierrick: aye, but kados usually emails prettily, so seemed worth a 1-line IRC shriek |
| 10:41 | kados | slef: :-) |
| 10:41 | slef | http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html#quoting if anyone hasn't seen it before |
| 10:41 | pierrick | (slef, I already read your site) |
| 10:41 | kados | slef: I top-posted due to time constraints today ... and only time constraints :-) |
| 10:41 | slef: but now I've spent more time talking about top-posting than if I had just not top-posted | |
| 10:42 | slef | ah, reciprocality wins again! |
| 10:42 | kados | heh |
| 10:42 | pierrick | slef, Dokuwiki supporta another wiki syntax, and it works good. I've personnaly never seen two wiki systems using the same syntax, do you? |
| 10:42 | slef | s/ality/ity/ |
| 10:43 | pierrick: TextFormattingRules, markdown and there's another one whose name forget | |
| 10:43 | pierrick: one-off syntaxes annoy the hell out of me, as I can't remember N similar-but-different ones | |
| 10:44 | "You are in a maze of twisty wiki-like markups, all different. Exits are DIE, DIE, DIE." | |
| 10:44 | pierrick | slef, I understand, my blog system and my wiki system don't use the same wiki syntax, I always forget the one goes where |
| 10:45 | anyway... dokuwiki is 95% ready | |
| 10:45 | slef | pierrick: OK if I open a low-priority bug for this? |
| 10:45 | pierrick | slef, what are you talking about ?? |
| 10:45 | a bug where ? | |
| 10:45 | slef | pierrick: a bug on bugs.koha.org saying "wiki.koha.org should use a more common syntax" |
| 10:46 | pierrick | what would be the purpose? this bug will never be corrected? Why not concentrating on real problems ? |
| 10:47 | owen, did you see the pagination_bar I commited today ? | |
| 10:47 | slef | pierrick: to remind me and to suggest to any casual newcomer; it might be fixed, unless you'll refuse to apply any fix; I think wiki being painful to edit is a problem. |
| 10:47 | pierrick | I have to write a mail explaning |
| 10:48 | slef, Koha is not a wiki system. We won't rewrite a wiki system to make it compliant with an unexisting "common wiki formatting rules" | |
| 10:49 | I don't know why Dokuwiki was chosen (maybe because it's the best GPL wiki system at the moment) | |
| 10:50 | paul | reading my release notes, I think they are complete, but not very sexy |
| 10:50 | I think something should be added at the beginning | |
| 10:50 | owen | pierrick, I saw the CVS log message about pagination_bar, and I like the sound of it even though I don't know what it is :) |
| 10:50 | slef | pierrick: koha is using a wiki; you can't stop other developers working on things (but you can be an obstruction); and I mentioned more common wiki syntaxes already. |
| 10:51 | paul | like "libraries said suggested some improvements. As usual, the Koha team listen carefully and we added features that rocks to your preffered ILS" |
| 10:51 | i'll add something like that in french release notes at least ! | |
| 10:51 | slef | paul: I guess the opening needs to cover Who What Where When How and Why. |
| 10:51 | paul | I let native english write something better |
| 10:53 | pierrick | slef, excuse me if you understood my saying as aggressive, I don't understand the point you make about formatting rules :-/ that's all |
| 10:53 | s{excuse me}{sorry} | |
| 10:54 | kados | slef: koha.org->VewCVS link is wrong, should be: https://savannah.nongnu.org/cvs/?group=koha |
| 10:54 | pierrick | do I continue working on Dokuwiki migration or do we stay with "more common formatting rules" of the existing wiki? |
| 10:55 | slef | pierrick: the point is having a one-off syntax makes the wiki harder for users to edit than it could be. |
| 10:55 | pierrick | slef, this syntax exists? |
| 10:56 | slef | Dokuwiki has plugins for Markdown and Textile at http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wik[…]ns#markup_schemes |
| 10:57 | pierrick | concerning Dokuwiki migration, I have difficulties with the existing links syntax. There are many ways to make a link, some are not easy to match :-/ |
| 10:57 | slef | could one of those be installed on wiki.koha.org ? |
| 10:58 | kados | slef: tell me which ones you eant |
| 10:58 | slef | I don't know bbcode, but I understand that's fairly common too |
| 10:58 | kados | want even |
| 10:58 | slef | pierrick: do either of those look easier/harder to migrate? |
| 10:59 | pierrick | slef, I suppose I don't need to migrate syntax if Markdown syntax is supported. |
| 10:59 | kados | k, I'll install that plugin |
| 10:59 | two secs | |
| 11:01 | slef | might be usemod from the looks of it |
| 11:01 | no, it says php | |
| 11:01 | hrmph | |
| 11:03 | kados | pierrick: markdown installed |
| 11:03 | wait | |
| 11:03 | one more step | |
| 11:03 | pierrick | kados, I'm going to install it too to check |
| 11:08 | kados | pierrick: ok, it's installed on wiki.koha.org |
| 11:08 | pierrick: let me know if it doesn't work | |
| 11:14 | pierrick | kados, markdown doesn't seem to work :-/ I don't know if it's because the plugin doesn't work or because the syntax is not Markdown |
| 11:14 | kados | pierrick: I think you have to enclose it in <markdown></markdown> tags |
| 11:16 | pierrick | kados, :-) I did |
| 11:17 | (I always read the documentation before trying something) | |
| 11:18 | shedges | kados: just reading back -- I'll change 2.2.6 to 2.4 in your docs. |
| 11:19 | kados | shedges: thanks! |
| 11:19 | pierrick: strange ... | |
| 11:20 | pierrick: I don't even know what 'markup' is :-) | |
| 11:20 | pierrick: does it work on your local install of dokuwiki? | |
| 11:20 | pierrick | markdown plugin seems to work because page rendering is different with and without <markdown> |
| 11:21 | my migration to Dokuwiki syntax works 95% | |
| 11:21 | kados | where, wiki.koha.org? or you local install? |
| 11:21 | pierrick: it's up to you how you want to do it | |
| 11:21 | pierrick | just a problem with some LinksLikeThat |
| 11:21 | kados | pierrick: enable CamelCase in dokuwiki conf |
| 11:21 | pierrick | slef will open 24 bugs on Bugzilla... |
| 11:22 | kados | pierrick: that should make migration 100% :-) |
| 11:22 | pierrick: when is our first BSM (btw) | |
| 11:23 | pierrick: if paul will release 2.4 on the 18th, maybe we could hold at least one BSM before that (hopefully two) | |
| 11:24 | paul | kados/pierrick : next week hdl & me will mostly be away |
| 11:24 | pierrick | kados, camelcase is fine :-) |
| 11:25 | kados | paul: ahh, ok |
| 11:25 | paul: so no bug squashing then :-) | |
| 11:27 | pierrick | kados, do you want to receive a dokuwiki.tar.gz ? |
| 11:32 | kados | pierrick: sure |
| 11:34 | pierrick: email it to me and I will put it on wiki.koha.org right away | |
| 11:34 | paul | reading you tomorrow folks |
| 11:36 | kados | night paul_away |
| 11:36 | pierrick | too big file for mail |
| 11:37 | http://le-gall.net/pierrick/te[…]006-03-09.tar.bz2 | |
| 11:38 | I'm not sure it's the last mysql dump of the wiki. But I can rerun the script I wrote on the last mysql dump if needed | |
| 11:42 | read you tomorrow, I really have to send a mail to koha-devel explaining how pagination_bar works... |
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