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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:31 | kados | morning everyone |
| 11:32 | hope to be done before 2.2.6 is released | |
| 11:32 | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]mple/addbiblio.pl | |
| 11:32 | several new plugins I will commit soon for marc21 | |
| 11:32 | for fixed fields | |
| 12:06 | hdl | kados : login password ? |
| 12:06 | oops | |
| 12:06 | I saw. | |
| 12:06 | kados | circ / liblime :-) |
| 12:08 | 008 is not working 100% yet | |
| 12:08 | I'm still working on it | |
| 12:08 | same with 005 | |
| 12:08 | but nearly works correctly :-) | |
| 12:43 | paul_away: you around? | |
| 13:36 | owen | It's strange, I'm having the same login problem today reported by Don Robertson on the Koha list |
| 13:36 | I have to re-log-in every time I click a link | |
| 13:37 | kados | huh |
| 13:37 | owen | I cleared the cookies and logged in again, but same thing. And it was working fine yesterday |
| 13:37 | Not on .76 | |
| 13:37 | On 101, rel_2_2 | |
| 13:37 | But I didn't change anything on that machine yesterday | |
| 13:41 | kados | that might be my fault |
| 13:42 | I did some major upgrades on 101 yesterday | |
| 13:42 | in anticipation of the need to get head working on it | |
| 13:42 | (cause head only works with the latest zebra and yaz and MARC::Record, etc.) | |
| 13:48 | owen | So whatever's going on for me may not be the same issue as reported on the list |
| 13:59 | kados | hehe |
| 14:04 | hdl | paul is not at home. |
| 14:04 | kados : you use Data::Dumper. | |
| 14:04 | With a hashref, how does it work ? | |
| 14:05 | I trid Dumper($hashref) | |
| 14:05 | But seems not to work. | |
| 14:06 | kados | it should |
| 14:06 | use Data::Dumper; | |
| 14:06 | warn Dumper($hashref); | |
| 14:06 | hdl: like that ^^ | |
| 14:07 | hdl | I forgot warn :/ |
| 14:12 | owen | Is that possible right now? |
| 14:23 | thd | kados: Did you see my last to comments last night about numbering in fixed fields starting with 00 as the first position? |
| 14:24 | kados: keep that in mind or everything will be off by one | |
| 14:24 | hdsl: are you still there? | |
| 14:26 | hdl: are you still there? | |
| 14:26 | hdl | yes. |
| 14:27 | owen : should be, since there is a userenv branch variable. | |
| 14:28 | owen | hdl: would that need to be added to the template variables in each script? |
| 14:28 | hdl | owen: but it is always the same branch as his entry branch. |
| 14:28 | owen: Unfortunately, yes. | |
| 14:28 | owen | we have a problem here where for whatever reason workstations are getting set back to the 'default' branch without anyone realizing it. |
| 14:28 | thd | hdl: the basic point I tried to convey yesterday was that the different relationship of business and ordinary retail customers have with vendors allows the vendor to change the price of anything even the books and inform of the new price upon the customer opening the box |
| 14:29 | owen | so issues are getting marked with the wrong branch |
| 14:29 | hdl | owen: I wanted to make a contact admin link. |
| 14:29 | It requires to modify all scripts. | |
| 14:29 | owen | It would be nice to have the branch name in the header on every page so that it was clear at all times |
| 14:29 | I wonder if there's a better way to do that? Some kind of global variables? | |
| 14:31 | hdl | owen: maybe modifying issuescript would be ok. |
| 14:31 | owen | The circulation screen can show the branch, but that's the only page that does |
| 14:31 | hdl | But it would require to dig into it more deeply. |
| 14:32 | And to define what should be done. | |
| 14:32 | thd | hdl: Changing the price in the middle of the transaction would be harmful to the relationship between vendors and ordinary retail customers |
| 14:32 | owen | hdl: it's something to keep in mind for the future |
| 14:33 | hdl | It is also the sole script where branch are so precious. |
| 14:33 | thd | hdl: vendors will not change the price in that context and it may also be illegal then. |
| 14:35 | hdl: Another issue is that all material of the some presumed type will not necessarily have the same tax rate. | |
| 14:37 | hdl: VAT or sales tax can vary by what the item is and where it originates with some things being exempt. | |
| 14:38 | hdl: I think normal acquisitions may not allow such variance even if it were working completely. | |
| 14:41 | hdl: Vendors may also charge nothing for shipping of some things as a promotion. Even a particular item may have no price applied when purchased with something else as a promotion. | |
| 14:45 | hdl: The final issue I wanted to raise was that in the absence of individualised information per item or the absence of the time to record the individualised information carefully, it is useful to attribute some shipping price estimate to each item for accounting purposes. | |
| 14:47 | hdl: In the absence of information or time, dividing the total shipping charge for a box by the number of items in a box is better than not attributing a shipping charge to items at all. | |
| 14:51 | hdl: Even better would be dividing the pay for the time required of everyone who touches the order and receiving process by the number of items. Libraries often guess about that number when deciding a replacement fine. Libraries usually do not charge enough for replacement fines in that case. | |
| 15:02 | hdl | well bye. |
| 15:06 | owen | kados: did you say you were going to do a system pref for patron images? |
| 15:10 | kados | owen: yea ... lets |
| 15:11 | I'll put it on my list ... | |
| 15:11 | hopefully get to it today | |
| 15:12 | owen | We're collecting quite an array of preferences |
| 15:20 | kados | yea ... hopefully it won't affect performance |
| 15:20 | we're going to need to reorganize them | |
| 15:20 | at some point | |
| 15:40 | thd | kados: are you there? |
| 15:55 | kados | thd: hi |
| 15:55 | thd | kados: cure yourself if you can |
| 15:56 | kados: where doe the leader script obtain the possible values from? | |
| 15:57 | kados | thd: the template |
| 15:57 | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]mple/addbiblio.pl | |
| 15:57 | thd: the 005 function now works perfectly | |
| 15:58 | thd: (well, I don't calculate more than year,mon,day, but all the values are there ... tell me what you think | |
| 15:58 | thd | kados: Oh, I saw there were templates for the script but did not think that templates should be storing values. |
| 15:58 | kados | me either ... |
| 15:58 | really, we need some XML for that | |
| 15:59 | I've got really neat ideas for how to handle cataloging with XUL/XSLT/XML | |
| 15:59 | but gotta get something going for the next few months first :-) | |
| 15:59 | thd | kados: In fact they should not but if it works for now and you can demonstrate that for prospective customers then that is good. |
| 16:00 | kados: I had thought that there should be some way of automatically parsing data from LC regarding what goes where that might reduce maintenance. | |
| 16:01 | kados: I excel at reformatting documents for purposes that they were never intended | |
| 16:02 | kados | heh |
| 16:02 | thd: how do you like the 005? | |
| 16:02 | thd | kados: However, MARC changes so slowly I thought the advantage might be small. |
| 16:04 | kados: very nice | |
| 16:04 | kados | thd: the 008 has all the values listed |
| 16:04 | thd | kados: it should be trivial to add seconds |
| 16:04 | kados | thd: but it's truncating everything past number 32 |
| 16:04 | thd: it will be | |
| 16:05 | thd: but for now I'd like to get 008 working | |
| 16:08 | thd | kados: you should allow empty values for no attempt to code where the presence of the particular position is not mandatory in minimal level records. |
| 16:09 | kados: are you one position short because of a coding issue to compensate for numbering starting with 00? | |
| 16:09 | kados | it's possible ... I've been looking at this a LONG time now :-) |
| 16:09 | I should probably get some breakfast ... brb | |
| 16:10 | thd | kados: breakfast helps thinking :) |
| 16:13 | owen: kados has a cold, keep a safe distance | |
| 16:14 | kados | yay ... as I was pouring my cereal I figured it out |
| 16:14 | hehe | |
| 16:14 | owen | And we live in the same county! |
| 16:14 | kados | owen: are you sure I still _have_ a face? :-) |
| 16:15 | thd | kados: I usually solve these problems in the shower |
| 16:15 | kados | thd: wohoo! |
| 16:15 | I think it's working perfectly now | |
| 16:16 | thd: can you double check for me? | |
| 16:16 | thd | kados: If I could get the thinking benefit from taking a shower 24 hours I would :) |
| 16:16 | kados | hehe |
| 16:16 | yea in the shower and right as I'm falling asleep I have my best ideas :-) | |
| 16:16 | owen | They make special water-resistant writing boards for shower-thinking people, I think |
| 16:18 | kados | heh |
| 16:18 | thd | kados: the popup seems not to open now |
| 16:18 | kados | thd: it might already be open |
| 16:18 | thd: I also have found I need to go to another page ... then go back to Add MARC | |
| 16:18 | otherwise the javascript gets cached | |
| 16:19 | thd | kados: already opened. I will close that window and try again. |
| 16:22 | kados | thd: did it work? |
| 16:23 | thd | kadpos: yes, you need some good default values and some empty value possibilities. |
| 16:23 | kados | thd: what should be the default values and which don't have empties and should? |
| 16:23 | thd | kados: also some parts like language code need the language code list. |
| 16:23 | kados | thd: that's way too long |
| 16:24 | thd: to be practical | |
| 16:24 | thd: but I agree ... in the next cataloger for sure | |
| 16:24 | we can scrape it off the LOC site | |
| 16:24 | put it into XML | |
| 16:24 | style it with XSLT | |
| 16:24 | and display it in our nice XUL UI :-) | |
| 16:25 | thd | kados: a click here for more codes button could solve length after the most common languages. |
| 16:25 | kados | thd: how about a link to the site that maintains them? |
| 16:25 | thd | kados: That is what the weak record editors do. |
| 16:26 | kados: the weak ones would be the best of all the others. | |
| 16:27 | kados | is that a yes? :-) |
| 16:27 | thd: I'm also guessing 003 shouldn't be an authorized value | |
| 16:27 | thd | kados: the one that LC uses to do original cataloguing verifies against a value list after code entry but that is only for fast typists who know all the codes anyway. |
| 16:27 | kados | thd: in the case of incoming MARC records |
| 16:29 | thd: link added | |
| 16:29 | thd | kados: Linking to get your codes here is last generation technology and that is where the best of the record editors is now. |
| 16:30 | kados: Koha is better than that. | |
| 16:31 | kados | thd: but not this version :-) |
| 16:31 | thd | kados: provide at least a small value list of the major languages with large publishing industries and a default set to the OPAC language code default. |
| 16:32 | kados: pick the ten or twenty major languages for publishing. | |
| 16:33 | kados: I will be happy to add it for you. | |
| 16:34 | kados: 003 should be the institutional code from the official list of institutional codes. | |
| 16:35 | kados: Anyone can get a code from LC but not everyone actually has an official one. | |
| 16:35 | kados | thd: I have a code :-) |
| 16:35 | thd: are you saying it's not official? | |
| 16:36 | thd | kados: It is official if you are in the US and obtained your code from LC. |
| 16:36 | kados | thd: I did |
| 16:36 | thd | kados: Then you have a valid code. |
| 16:36 | kados | thd: it's OhAtLVL |
| 16:37 | LibLime Virtual Library (Athens, OH) | |
| 16:37 | thd | kados: This same code is supposed to be used in holdings of course. |
| 16:37 | kados | I still don't know if our plugins can span multiple tags/subfields |
| 16:37 | ie, put a value in one and it updates the other one | |
| 16:38 | thd: I also don't know how to set up linking | |
| 16:38 | thd | kados: Do you get a new code if you move, or is your virtual library always in Athens even if you move? |
| 16:38 | kados | i think you get a new code |
| 16:40 | thd | kados: paul is able to fill likely publisher name from ISBN but I do not know if that was the context of your earlier point. |
| 16:41 | kados | thd: if we could obtain a csv list of Control Number Identifiers, we could put them in the authoroized values field |
| 16:41 | thd | kados: what linking are you referencing in your question about setting up linking? |
| 16:41 | kados | thd: well ... any linking really ... I have yet to see an instance of it in any real data |
| 16:42 | thd: so I guess I'm curious to know how it works and whether we can do it in Koha | |
| 16:42 | thd | kados: You were complaining about the language list being too large :) |
| 16:42 | kados | but perhaps that's a question for another day |
| 16:42 | thd: yea, I retract my recent statment | |
| 16:42 | thd: we'll have to wait till the new cataloger for that feature | |
| 16:43 | thd: should we work on 007 and 006? | |
| 16:43 | thd: or is 008 not sufficiently done? | |
| 16:43 | thd | kados: 006 is almost identical to 008 |
| 16:43 | kados | goody :-) |
| 16:44 | thd | kados: 006 is required if and only if there is additional material to be catalogued that is part of the primary material being catalogued. |
| 16:45 | kados: 007 is the most fun though. | |
| 16:45 | kados | ok ... I should be able to whip up 006 in a few minutes |
| 16:45 | thd | kados: A good plugin would make filling it fun so that it would actually be used. |
| 16:48 | kados: 245 $h can also be filled in most cases from the values in the leader as modified by 008, 006, and 007. | |
| 16:49 | kados | thd: check out how I did 245$h and tell me if you like it |
| 16:51 | thd | kados: is that the AACR2 list? |
| 16:52 | kados | I got it from oclc |
| 16:55 | thd | kados: some institutions will find that list under-inclusive and many institutions use special material designation that is more closely associated with 007. |
| 16:57 | kados: for example many institutions actually have a practise of using 245 $h to designate DVD as opposed to VHS or Betamax instead of mere videorecording etc. | |
| 17:00 | kados: The OCLC usage is the official practise of the antiquated AACR2 general material designation that they may require for their own records to ensure least specialised practise conformity in their cataloguing records. | |
| 17:05 | kados: some institutions consider 300 $b to be too much of a free form text field so they expand the 245 $h list beyond the general material designation recognised by AACR2. | |
| 17:06 | kados: AACR2, despite minor updates, is 30 years old and is undergoing a major rewrite. | |
| 17:07 | kados: No one was satisfied so the committee working on the rewrite scrapped their proposals last year and started over again :) | |
| 17:08 | kados: rule simplification is one major goal. | |
| 17:10 | kados: AACR rewrite could drive some major changes for MARC but there is a chicken and egg problem, as well as the legacy records and systems problem. | |
| 17:12 | kados: unfortunately, the radicals who understand well how evil MARC can be do not sit on that committee. | |
| 17:23 | kados | thd: 006 is listed as 'repeatable' does that mean the tag or the subfield? |
| 17:23 | thd | kados: 008 needs a blank option for positions that are optional at minimal level cataloguing such as BOOKS 008/31 for index present. Some cataloguers are in too much of hurry to bother to encode that position or others when the standard does not require it to be encoded. |
| 17:24 | kados: '@' subfields are not real subfields and therefore only the field itself can be repeatable. | |
| 17:26 | kados: '@' subfields are a hack for Koha to get around an issue where MARC was attempting to conserve every byte on mid-sixties computer systems. | |
| 17:29 | kados: Otherwise the '@' subfield hack ought to have been part of the original MARC specification to preserve the record hierarchy when more verbose formats like XML had not been invented. | |
| 17:36 | kados | thd: OK ... 006 should be done |
| 17:36 | thd: I'll add a blank to 008/31 | |
| 17:36 | thd: actually ... no blank is specified in the standard | |
| 17:36 | thd: you sure that's ok ? | |
| 17:38 | thd | kados: blank is not specified but filling it is optional and that is certainly not the only one. |
| 17:39 | kados | ok |
| 17:39 | thd | kados: everyone should fill it but not everyone will. |
| 17:39 | kados | thd: can you recommend defaults to me? |
| 17:39 | for 008 and 006 | |
| 17:40 | thd: here are the current 008 defaults: | |
| 17:40 | " s xxu g eng " | |
| 17:41 | here are the current 006 defaults: | |
| 17:41 | "a " | |
| 17:41 | thd: should every value have a 'blank' option? | |
| 17:43 | thd | kados: only positions which are optional for the cataloguing level should have a blank option where one is not explicitly provided in the form of no attempt to catalogue. |
| 17:45 | kados: only the full documentation lists mandatory and optional elements of the record. | |
| 17:47 | kados: There is obviously an inconsistency between the explicit provision of a no attempt to code value and another position having no such value yet being optional. | |
| 17:48 | kados | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]mple/addbiblio.pl |
| 17:48 | thd | kados: Design by many hands over time has led to inconsistancies. |
| 17:48 | kados | thd: I changed the '...' to [values] |
| 17:48 | thd: tell me what you think | |
| 17:49 | thd: should we work on 007? | |
| 17:49 | thd: I'm not sure what to do about the defaults for 008 and 006 ... | |
| 17:50 | thd | kados: 007 is the most fun. |
| 17:50 | kados: especially cartographic material | |
| 17:51 | kados: and works of art. | |
| 17:51 | kados | heh |
| 17:51 | I'm reading through it now | |
| 17:52 | thd | kados: museums do not even have anything as sophisticated as MARC to use and record exchange between museums is very poor because they have no standard. |
| 17:53 | kados: They should just adopt MARC and pressure enhancements and for a change to XML. | |
| 17:53 | kados | thd: what's the values in 007 for 'book' ? |
| 17:54 | thd: text? | |
| 17:54 | thd | yes |
| 17:55 | kados | so all I need to do is : |
| 17:55 | 00 and 01 | |
| 17:55 | :-) | |
| 17:55 | for today :-) | |
| 17:58 | thd | kados: 007 is too easy for books |
| 17:58 | kados: 008 defaults | |
| 18:00 | kados 08/00-05 is supposed to be generated only once. | |
| 18:00 | kados | right |
| 18:00 | that makes sense | |
| 18:00 | I'll have to ask paul whether our plugins can do that | |
| 18:00 | thd | kados: not regenerated every time someone edits 008 or the record as a whole. |
| 18:00 | kados | yep |
| 18:01 | thd | kados: It would be much easier if the frameworks allowed for dividing fixed fields into discrete functional parts. |
| 18:02 | kados: Each subpart could have its own subpart plugin. | |
| 18:05 | kados: 008/06 should probably be 's' although 't' runs a close second. | |
| 18:08 | kados: however 008/06 is optional for minimal level records so it so defaulting to blank should be considered which greatly eases the next few positions. | |
| 18:09 | kados | thd: ok ... 007 done for 'BOOK' |
| 18:10 | thd: in your opinion, should we have a separate framework for each materials designation? | |
| 18:10 | thd | kados:so make 008/06,07-10,11-14 all blank by default for minimal level records. |
| 18:11 | kados | ok |
| 18:11 | thd | kados: yes there should be a separate framework for each. |
| 18:11 | kados | we need hotkeys too |
| 18:12 | thd | kados: however, ideally in the long term you would change some important value in a control field and the whole framework would change with all the data. |
| 18:13 | kados: The frameworks are not that flexible yet but that should be the longterm goal. | |
| 18:14 | kados | thd: ok ... 06, 7-10,11-14 have defaults set to blank |
| 18:14 | in 008 | |
| 18:15 | thd | kados: so if you discovered that your book was actually a serial or whatever everything would change by changing a value in the leader. |
| 18:15 | kados | right now you'd have to select a new framework and start over i think |
| 18:16 | thd | kados: similarly upgrade your framework by changing from minimal to nations level cataloguing by changing that in the leader etc. |
| 18:16 | kados: yes, now it requires separate frameworks. | |
| 18:17 | kados: there should be an easy way to submit the old values to a new framework if there is a need for the cataloguer to change frameworks. | |
| 18:18 | kados: This would be something less than the ultimate goal but a workaround for that basic need. | |
| 18:20 | kados: Of course if there is no workaround, the incentive to achieve the ultimate goal will be greater :) | |
| 18:20 | back to 008 | |
| 18:26 | kados:A mistake earlier, make 008/06,07-10,11-14 all '|' for no attempt to code by default for minimal level records. | |
| 18:28 | kados: If there is a no attempt to code option provided then there should not be a blank option unless blank happens to be the code used for no attempt to code. | |
| 18:30 | kados | thd: sorry ... I don't quite understand |
| 18:30 | thd: that happend on koha.liblime.com? | |
| 18:32 | Jo | Can one of you Katipo guys please give me the url for the koha test site .... so I can bookmark it! I know the login name and password but can't find the link .... |
| 18:32 | thd | kados: 008/15-17 has xxu and that is good for the US but you should have the top 20 counties for Koha use at least in a selection list. |
| 18:33 | russ | Jo you there? |
| 18:33 | Jo | yep |
| 18:34 | thd | kados: you understood that for dates in 008 '|' means no attempt to code. |
| 18:35 | kados: no attempt to code is an explicit option provided in the standard and acceptable for minimal level records. | |
| 18:35 | kados | thd: got hour,min,sec working for 005 |
| 18:35 | :-) | |
| 18:35 | thd: is it | or !? | |
| 18:36 | thd | kados: the piping symbol |
| 18:36 | kados | http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib0438.htm |
| 18:36 | you mean 008/07-10 ? | |
| 18:36 | or other dates? | |
| 18:37 | thd | kados: that is a different case where blank might be the official option for no attempt to code often designated as # in documentation for clarity. |
| 18:37 | kados | I don't quite understand what you're telling me to do |
| 18:39 | thd | kados: 008/07-14 even uses fill characters with dates but make all of 008/06-14 filled with '|' in each position. |
| 18:40 | s/position/position by default/ | |
| 18:42 | kados | thd: on koha.liblime.com? |
| 18:42 | thd: or somewhere else? | |
| 18:42 | thd: are you telling me to make koha.liblime.com do that? | |
| 18:42 | thd: or are you complaining that it is? :-) | |
| 18:44 | thd | kados: I have not looked I am merely describing what should be a minimal level record default for MARC 21 wherever. |
| 18:45 | kados: previously I had said blank for 008/06-14 but that was mistaken. Each of those positions should be the piping symbol instead of blanks. | |
| 18:47 | kados: that is different from a case where blank designated by # in the documentation has been explicitly provided for the same purpose. | |
| 18:49 | kados: that is also different from the case of index present in BOOKS 008/31 where the documentation allows no coding for minimal level records but does not explicitly provide a no attempt to code designation symbol. | |
| 18:50 | kados | thd: where are you getting this information? |
| 18:50 | thd | kados: the designation symbol must necessarily be blank when not explicitly provided for no attempt to code if no attempt to code is allowed. |
| 18:52 | kdos: The complete MARC manual has this optional and mandatory; national and minimal information. | |
| 18:54 | kados: An expensive looseleaf binder subscription service; a subscription service that used to be on CD ROM, Catalogers Desktop; now an online subscription service; or wait for it ... | |
| 18:57 | kados: your taxes paid for it, as a product of your government it is in the public domain in the US by law, although LC has copyright; therefore; | |
| 18:58 | kados: TLC has it repackaged for you at no charge with some occasional circulars about code interpretation and usage advice missing. | |
| 18:59 | kados: http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/CRS0000.htm | |
| 19:00 | kados: you knew all that already, but there is a lot of content there. | |
| 19:01 | kados: The equivalent detail for UNIMARC, when it exists, requires paying money. | |
| 19:03 | kados: The problem with ISO and IFLA funding is not the creature of any one government and therefore must go begging for money and charging for even standards publications. | |
| 19:04 | kados: ISO standards are very expensive :( | |
| 19:06 | s/not the creature/that ISO and IFLA are not the creatures/ | |
| 19:07 | kados: back to 008 | |
| 19:15 | kados: 008/18-21 should be '|' in each position for no attempt to code as it is optional for minimal level records. There should be a separate selection list with the same content unless you can think of a better way to group them. | |
| 19:17 | s/separate selection list/separate selection list for each of those positions/ | |
| 19:19 | kados: 008/22 again '|' for no attempt to code as optional at the minimal level. | |
| 19:21 | kados: 008/23 is optional at the minimal record level but blank for none of the above is a safe default for most cases. | |
| 19:26 | kados: I was wrong about the value filling if encoded for 008/18-21. The default should be '|' in each position for no attempt to code as it is optional for minimal level records. | |
| 19:27 | kados | thd: could you break that down into an actual string for me? |
| 19:27 | for 008, 006, etc. | |
| 19:27 | I'm too tired to interperate it atm | |
| 19:28 | thd | kados: When values are actually chosen for 008/18-21 the have to be sorted in alphabetical order. |
| 19:29 | kados: I will proceed to a string. | |
| 19:29 | kados | thx |
| 19:31 | thd | kados: take your great grandmother's spicy soup remedy. It may not cure you but it will help :) |
| 19:33 | kados: sleep is also good :) | |
| 19:34 | kados | heh |
| 19:34 | thd | owen: are you still there? |
| 19:34 | owen | yes |
| 19:36 | thd | which template controls marc_subfields_structure.pl if it is not auth_subfields_structure.tmpl? |
| 19:37 | owen | parameters/marc_subfields_structure.tmpl |
| 19:38 | thd | owen: is that the same in the default templates? |
| 19:39 | owen | It's controlled by the script, so yes: get_template_and_user({template_name => "parameters/marc_subfields_structure.tmpl" |
| 19:41 | kados | owen: btw: I've been meaning to mention |
| 19:41 | owen: you can create a 'NPL' sys pref | |
| 19:41 | owen: JUST on the NPL box | |
| 19:41 | owen: then enclose all those NPL-specific tags (or exclude) based on that pref | |
| 19:42 | so long as you enclose with the requisite <TMPL_IF clauses | |
| 19:42 | it won't affect any off the other systems using the template | |
| 19:42 | thd | owen: thank you. They shared so much I thought they must be the same and did not check further. I have fixed a small bug now. |
| 19:44 | own: small bug had been confusing me producing extra data entry mistakes when I would forget what it should read. All is fine now and I will commit it. | |
| 19:56 | owen | kados: it's probably not worth the effort. I should probably just cut that stuff out and rely on my own record-keeping to keep track of changes. |
| 19:57 | We've already accomodated many of the old hacks. | |
| 20:13 | thd | kados: I see what was prompting your question about '|' usage for no attempt to code. |
| 20:13 | kados | :-) |
| 20:15 | thd | kados: That value is absent from the the old complete MARC reference at TLC but it is present in the up to date concise documentation at http://www.loc.gov/marc/biblio[…]hic/ecbd008s.html . |
| 20:18 | kados | thd: I think this paragraph: |
| 20:18 | The data elements are positionally-defined. Character positions that are not defined contain a blank (#). All defined character positions must contain a defined code; for some field 008 positions, this may be the fill character (|). The fill character may be used (in certain character positions) when a cataloging organization makes no attempt to code the character position. The fill character is not allowed in field 008 positions 00-05 (Date entered on file). Its use | |
| 20:19 | means that my 008 is invalid :-) | |
| 20:19 | because I dont' change the meaning of position 23/29 depending on the 008 config | |
| 20:25 | thd | kados: It seems that some of my suggested defaults may be off by that paragraph you quoted. At least my suggestions are partly disparaged usage. |
| 20:26 | kados: I should read the introduction to documentation more often. | |
| 20:28 | kados | we need a more dynamic selection box |
| 20:28 | thd | kados: We would need a mechanism for changing frameworks with the same data in order to change a framework when editing as opposed to creating an original record. |
| 20:29 | kados: JavaScript can give you an endlessly dynamic selection box. | |
| 20:31 | kados | yep |
| 20:31 | don't have the time to program that now though :-) | |
| 20:31 | or the energy :/ | |
| 20:32 | hopefully this will be enough to satisfy the elementary school catalogers I'm meeting with tomorrow :-) | |
| 20:34 | thd | kados: yet the issue they are referring to with regard to 008/23 or 29 is already taken care of by the framework. |
| 20:36 | kados | thd: btw: don't know if you get the journal 'American Libraries', but LibLime is mentioned in a article in the Feb issue |
| 20:36 | pg 43 | |
| 20:36 | thd | kados: they simply mean that 008/23 is used for form of item for books while 008/29 is used for form of item for maps and neither is used for computer files. |
| 20:38 | kados: my subscription lapsed long ago when I found no justification for my ALA membership fee. | |
| 20:43 | kados: computer files have type of item in 008/26 but that is not necessarily form of item. I bothered myself a great degree by that inconsistency a year and a half ago when I was putting all this into Zope. | |
| 20:52 | kados: I guess that is the logical equivalent for computer files but except for byte conservation there should be much more consistency between the coding of different material types. | |
| 21:11 | kados: your spiffy new default for BOOKS 008 minimal level records for cataloguing done in the US is as follows. # means blank. | |
| 21:11 | kados: ######t########xxu|||||#||||#00|#0#eng#d | |
| 21:13 | kados: Of course, 08/00-05 need filling with the correct originating value. | |
| 21:15 | kados: It should not be difficult to capture what is already there in the field for 008/00-05. | |
| 21:20 | kados: never mind for merely 008/00-05. Editing should use all values already present and not reset them to a new default. | |
| 21:35 | kados: the equivalent for BOOKS 006 would be a|||||#||||#00|#0# | |
| 21:41 | kados: sorry small mistake for no double checking. It seemed wrong intuitively. | |
| 21:42 | kados: BOOKS 008 ######t########xxu|||||r||||#00|#0#eng#d | |
| 21:44 | kados: similarly BOOKS 007 a|||||r||||#00|#0# | |
| 21:45 | s/007/006/ | |
| 21:46 | kados: explicitly similarly BOOKS 006 a|||||r||||#00|#0# | |
| 21:47 | kados: similarly BOOKS 007 ta | |
| 22:55 | kados | thd: those # should be spaces right? |
| 22:55 | thd | kados: yes spaces |
| 22:56 | kados | ok ... I'm gonna add those defaults now |
| 22:56 | thd | kados: although 008/00-05 should have a date. |
| 22:56 | kados | thd: and it should keep the original, yes, I know |
| 22:56 | thd: that should be pretty easy | |
| 23:05 | thd: i'm guessing that default values shouldn't be an option ... they should just be the defaults if nothing is selected, right? | |
| 23:06 | thd: esp the | ? | |
| 23:07 | thd | kados: the '|' should be selectable in the selection list. |
| 23:08 | kados: wherever they are applicable. | |
| 23:08 | kados | ok |
| 23:08 | thd | kados: I removed the deprecated ones. |
| 23:09 | kados | cool |
| 23:10 | thd | kados: The default intranet templates are currently the only ones supporting moving the relative positions of subfields within the editor. |
| 23:12 | kados | thd: really? I didn't know such a feature existed |
| 23:12 | I'll have to check it out | |
| 23:12 | thd | kados: Arranging subfield order when adding new records or modifying existing records is necessary to create some types of valid records. |
| 23:12 | kados | right |
| 23:13 | thd | kados: In CVS little arrows move subfield order up the list within the field. |
| 23:14 | kados: paul has stated that motion will be bidirectional by 2.26 release. | |
| 23:14 | chris | one more . thd :) |
| 23:14 | 2.2.6 | |
| 23:14 | its only the 6th 2.2 release :) | |
| 23:15 | thd | kados: unidirectional is still sufficient for creating valid records if you click a little more |
| 23:17 | chris | i think ive got it so it actually does something now :) |
| 23:17 | thd | chris: yes, 2.2.6. It is good that it will finally be possible to create valid MARC records by the sixth 2.2 release. |
| 23:20 | kados | thd: ok ... check my 006 field |
| 23:22 | thd | kados: It has a repeatable "@' control subfield. Only the field itself should be repeatable. |
| 23:23 | kados | ok |
| 23:23 | thd: doesn't look like repeatable subfield to me | |
| 23:23 | thd | kados: looks good. |
| 23:24 | kados | I see ... it says (R) |
| 23:24 | thd | kados: you are right it was the verbose name. |
| 23:25 | kados | thd: for position 22 in 008, a space is listed as Unknown or not specified |
| 23:25 | thd | kados: my frameworks have control filed or fixed position control field as the names for '@' subfields. |
| 23:26 | kados | thd: can you confirm that it should be instead a | ? |
| 23:26 | or in addition to? | |
| 23:26 | thd: ahh ... that's probably a better name | |
| 23:27 | thd: which is which? | |
| 23:30 | thd | kados: the introduction to the concise manual for 008 states which is more explicit. The designation should be 'No attempt to code' for '|' you have it as 'unknown' where I have noticed. |
| 23:31 | kados: there is a difference between unknown and no attempt to code. | |
| 23:32 | kados: I think that difference is absent in historical usage for some earlier version of the standard. | |
| 23:33 | kados | thd: ok ... check my 008 now |
| 23:33 | thd: I guess the question is, for original cataloging, is there anything wrong with this framework (for Book Monograph)? | |
| 23:33 | can we generate a truly valid MARC record? | |
| 23:34 | (asside from MARC holdings) | |
| 23:37 | thd | kados: 008/22 is missing the '|' for no attempt to code. Only the ambiguous unknown or no attempt to code is present. |
| 23:37 | s/ambiguous/# ambiguous/ | |
| 23:38 | s/# ambiguous/ambiguous #/ | |
| 23:39 | kados | thd: see my question above |
| 23:39 | 'not specified' sounds like 'the cataloger didn't bother to look' | |
| 23:39 | to me | |
| 23:39 | unless you have a more recent reference | |
| 23:41 | thd | kados: '|' no attempt to code is better and should be an option. Unknown can mean that it was not possible to determine satisfactorily from the material. |
| 23:41 | kados | ok |
| 23:42 | thd | kados: so unknown can mean that the cataloguer did bother but was unsuccessful |
| 23:43 | kados: no attempt to code informs means clearly that the cataloguer did not have enough time or maybe had no direct access to the material. | |
| 23:43 | kados | thd: ok ... done |
| 23:46 | thd | kados: you have an exclamation mark instead of a piping symbol as an option in 008/23 |
| 23:47 | s/instead of/in addition to/ | |
| 23:48 | kados: how are you planning to derive 008/24-27? | |
| 23:50 | kados | thd: they should be able to be derived from other parts of the MARC record |
| 23:50 | I won't tackle that problem until i can get the plugins doing that | |
| 23:50 | (ie getting stuff from other parts of the record) | |
| 23:51 | thd | kados: yes, no need to code things twice. |
| 23:52 | kados: I mean no need for the cataloguer to encode things twice or even three times for some cases. | |
| 23:55 | kados | right |
| 23:57 | teknotus1 | How can I tell if the z3950 deamon started correctly? |
| 23:57 | thd | kados: I like it. I like it a lot. |
| 23:58 | kados | thd: cool |
| 23:58 | teknotus1: well for one thing, you should be able to find stuff using the Z3950 client :-) | |
| 23:58 | teknotus1: also: | |
| 23:58 | ps aux |grep z3950 | |
| 23:58 | thd | kados: we can now create valid records provide MARC::Record is managing the record size part of the leader. |
| 23:58 | kados | that will at least tell you if it's running |
| 23:58 | thd: yep | |
| 23:59 | thd: I'm fairly certain that it does | |
| 00:00 | teknotus1 | kados I tried that |
| 00:00 | Nothing | |
| 00:00 | What user should it run as | |
| 00:00 | thd | kados: Karen Coyle had told me that she we not the most well informed about record editors but she only knew of one new one from Spain or in Spanish that had selection options for coded data fields. |
| 00:01 | teknotus1: Sorry, I have neglected you. | |
| 00:01 | teknotus1 | Do I use deamon-launch, or deamon-shell? |
| 00:02 | thd | teknotus1: It will run as your Apache user. www-data by default on a Debian system. |
| 00:03 | teknotus1: one of those calls the other and kados remembers correctly. | |
| 00:03 | teknotus1 | But if I am manually launching to test it out do I start it as root? |
| 00:04 | thd | teknotus1: start it as root and then it will su to the proper user. |
| 00:05 | kados | thd: cool! |
| 00:05 | thd: I assume that's a good thing | |
| 00:06 | thd | kados: It was a generation ahead of other MARC record editors but lacked what you have been working on for the MARC 21 side. |
| 00:07 | kados: The frameworks do need amplification for things that are now awkward. | |
| 00:08 | kados | thd: of course, I'm viewing this as a proof-of-concept for a client that wanted anal-retentive MARC compliance in the editor |
| 00:08 | thd: I think before I spend too much more time on it I'll need to find one of those | |
| 00:08 | thd: so they can sponsor the complete set of frameworks | |
| 00:09 | thd | kados: It would certainly be time consuming to do it right. |
| 00:10 | kados: However, the record editor could be disintegrated from Koha and used as a Trojan horse into other systems. | |
| 00:13 | kados: paul had written to koha-devel about that with an API long ago and I applauded the support it had for one part of the old email message I will send you after my default framework is complete. | |
| 00:14 | teknotus1 | Q : select distinct m1.bibid from biblio,biblioitems,marc_biblio,marc_subfield_table as m1 where bib |
| 00:14 | lio.biblionumber=marc_biblio.biblionumber and biblio.biblionumber=biblioitems.biblionumber and m1.bi | |
| 00:15 | bid=marc_biblio.bibid and (m1.subfieldvalue like '0596000278%' and concat(m1.tag,m1.subfieldcode) in | |
| 00:15 | ('020a')) order by biblio.title ASC at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/C4/SearchMarc.pm line 288. | |
| 00:15 | That was in the error log just after trying to do a search | |
| 00:16 | thd | teknotus1: what was in the Z39.50 popup? |
| 00:17 | teknotus1 | Search results nothing found |
| 00:17 | The only place I found to do a search is from adding a new book. | |
| 00:17 | Still ?? requests to go | |
| 00:19 | It doesn't even seem like an error message. It looks like an SQL query. | |
| 00:20 | Oh I have debian packages for the three perl modules that aren't in debian that koha needs if anybody wants them. | |
| 00:21 | I'm using koha-2.2.5 | |
| 00:21 | thd | teknotus1: someone will want them and the build scripts |
| 00:26 | teknotus1: grab the latest search.pl for rel_2_2 from CVS http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org[…]1.3.2.6&root=koha | |
| 00:33 | teknotus1 | Where do I put it. I see multiple search.pl's |
| 00:34 | An opac one, and an intranet one | |
| 00:37 | thd | teknotus1: Replace the file in /usr/local/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/z3950/search.pl or wherever you put z3950/search.pl . Be cerain to preserve teh proper permissions from the old search.pl file. |
| 00:38 | teknotus1: proper permissions should be read and execute for the Apache user. | |
| 00:43 | teknotus1 | It seems to have the same permissions |
| 00:44 | I don't get a popup any more. | |
| 00:46 | thd | teknotus1: Is the popup open in another window? |
| 00:46 | teknotus1 | Oh Ok |
| 00:46 | I guess it was loading in the old window that was burried | |
| 00:48 | DBD::mysql::st execute failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL serv | |
| 00:48 | er version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Breeding.pm line 167. | |
| 00:50 | There are a few fetch without execute errors. | |
| 00:54 | thd | teknotus1: Does your MARC Check pass OK? |
| 00:54 | teknotus1 | yep |
| 01:00 | thd | teknotus1: You should now have the promised message from me in your gmail box. |
| 01:05 | teknotus1 | I don't understand the environment variables that it says it needs in the email |
| 01:09 | PERL5LIB="/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules" KOHA_CONF="/etc/koha.conf" ../intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-launch.sh | |
| 01:09 | I just launched it like that | |
| 01:10 | thd | teknotus1: That looks right but were the variables both set and exported? |
| 01:11 | teknotus: What shell is root running? | |
| 01:13 | teknotus1 | bash |
| 01:14 | I just killed the deamon, made sure the environment was set, and restarted it to no effect | |
| 01:16 | thd | teknotus: What do you have from env | grep PERL5LIB and env | grep KOHA_CONF when executed by root? |
| 01:18 | kados: Do you mean Stephen or Steven? | |
| 01:18 | teknotus1 | freekbox3:/usr/local/koha/log# env | grep PERL5LIB |
| 01:18 | PERL5LIB=/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules | |
| 01:18 | freekbox3:/usr/local/koha/log# env | grep KOHA_CONF | |
| 01:18 | KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha.conf | |
| 01:20 | Is there something I could edit into the search so that logs more stuff, and makes it easier to track down what is broken? | |
| 01:20 | kados | thd: Steven |
| 01:20 | thd | tektotus1: is the Z39.50 daemon options file set correctly? |
| 01:20 | kados | thd: have you read his reply to me? |
| 01:20 | chris | did he do an off list reply? |
| 01:20 | kados | chris: dont' think so |
| 01:21 | chris | ahh that might be why i havent seen it |
| 01:21 | teknotus1 | thd: it exactly matches the one in the email |
| 01:21 | kados | shoot ... he did |
| 01:21 | damn it | |
| 01:21 | chris | he did that too me too |
| 01:22 | teknotus1 | thd: also it seems to be right. |
| 01:23 | chris | lol you used my quote |
| 01:24 | kados | yea :-) |
| 01:24 | hope it makes sense | |
| 01:26 | thd | teknotus1: what are the permissions you have for z3950-daemon-options? |
| 01:26 | chris | i think thats a great reply |
| 01:26 | kados | chris: do you know of a way I can resend a message in mutt without 'forwarding' it or 'replying'? |
| 01:26 | chris: I have sent messages stored in Mail/sent | |
| 01:27 | chris | bounce |
| 01:27 | b for bounce | |
| 01:27 | teknotus1 | rwxr-xr-x 1 www-data www-data 174 2006-02-22 18:46 intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-options |
| 01:28 | kados | thx |
| 01:30 | thd | teknotus1: kados: what does the z39.50 daemon appear as in ps? |
| 01:31 | kados: what does the z39.50 daemon appear as in ps? | |
| 01:31 | kados | thd: |
| 01:31 | root 15511 0.0 0.2 4328 1076 pts/2 S 09:12 0:00 su -s /bin/sh -c /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-shell.sh - apacheapache 15512 0.1 1.8 16072 9188 pts/2 S 09:12 0:43 /usr/bin/perl /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/logapache 16357 0.0 0.0 0 0 pts/2 Z 10:40 0:00 [processz3950que] <defunct>apache | |
| 01:31 | teknotus1 | www-data 4229 0.0 3.4 13668 8828 pts/2 S 20:12 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log |
| 01:34 | kados | russ: re: sleep ... I go in spurts ... sometimes I sleep way too much, sometimes hardly at all |
| 01:34 | thd | teknotus1: try ps aux | grep z3950 |
| 01:36 | teknotus1 | www-data 4229 0.0 3.4 13668 8828 pts/2 S 20:12 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon |
| 01:37 | /processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log | |
| 01:37 | Is it also supposed to have that z3950-deamon-shell.sh in there? | |
| 01:38 | kados | well ... that's how you start it :-) |
| 01:38 | teknotus1 | I ran deamon-launch |
| 01:42 | I think I'm about ready to give up for the night. | |
| 01:43 | Thanks for all the help. | |
| 01:45 | thd | kados: paul mentioned a disremembered problem with MARC record export in Koha. He seemed to 'know' that it was there despite my inability to notice it on a superficial record examination. |
| 01:46 | kados: paul could not remember the exact nature of the problem but he should know because he wrote the code. | |
| 01:46 | kados: there is a caution in the templates about MARC record export. | |
| 01:47 | kados: He invited me to open a bug report but I never did open a bug report for a bug that I could not identify. | |
| 01:48 | kados: Clearly if the problem is real t will need to be addressed for migration to Koha 3.x. | |
| 01:53 | kados | thd: I don't think it's a problem |
| 01:53 | thd: I've exported stuff from Koha and it looks fine | |
| 01:55 | thd | kados: so did I but paul still seemed to think that there was a hidden problem that he knew but could not remember well enough to specify when I asked him about the warning. |
| 01:56 | kados | there may be a sync problem with exporting the correct status information |
| 01:56 | I'm sure if there is a problem Steven will find it :-) | |
| 01:57 | hmmm, for one thing, it doesn't seem to be prompting for a file download | |
| 01:58 | i seem to remember something about specifying a filetype to alert the browser | |
| 01:58 | thd | kados: yes, well there are still very many problems until you have the complete and accurate framework that I am going back to now |
| 01:58 | kados | chris: do you know what to do about that? |
| 01:58 | thd: not for storage | |
| 01:58 | thd: only for original cataloging | |
| 01:58 | thd: not for export either | |
| 01:58 | thd: our problems with MARC in 2.2 are creating the MARC and using the MARC | |
| 01:59 | thd: ie, using all the semantic info encoded in it | |
| 01:59 | thd: rather than just a few basic 1-1 mappings | |
| 02:00 | thd | kados: editing an existing MARC record with an incomplete framework is a problem as well as adding items with an incomplete framework. |
| 02:00 | kados | thd: right |
| 02:01 | thd: that's easily addressed with the proper combo of plugins and field definitions | |
| 02:01 | thd | kados: you should fix the long broken function that fills the the item call number using the system preference that you had asked about. |
| 02:02 | kados | thd: which one is that? |
| 02:02 | thd: expand on it a bit ... | |
| 02:03 | thd | kados: It should be more intelligent so as to fill the item call number using both the classification and cutter subfields. |
| 02:04 | kados: the one where the preference description mistakenly identifies UNIMARC exclusively. | |
| 02:04 | kados | hmmm |
| 02:04 | thd | kados: It has been broken since at least Koha 2.2.3. |
| 02:05 | kados: I do not know when it was working. | |
| 02:06 | kados: oops maybe I am confused about what is broken sorry. | |
| 02:07 | kados: That works but does need the cutter number as well. | |
| 02:08 | kados: autogeneration of barcode numbers is broken. I guess no one actually uses barcode autogeneration to fill the item field automatically. | |
| 02:09 | kados: yes that could function similarly to item call number filling. | |
| 02:11 | kados | thd: yikes |
| 02:11 | thd: I think the | is splitting things up into separate subfields | |
| 02:11 | thd: bad news | |
| 02:12 | thd | kados: so automatic call number filling is missing the provision to create a number from 082 $a as well as $b if using DDC. Currently only 082 $a would be filled automatically. |
| 02:12 | kados: oops :-) | |
| 02:13 | kados | I hope I can find a quick workaround for that |
| 02:13 | otherwise steven's gonna have a field day :-) | |
| 02:13 | thd | kados: Quoting needed somewhere. |
| 02:14 | Quoting needed many somewheres most likely. | |
| 02:15 | kados: a quick fix would be to change all the piping symbols to blanks for now. | |
| 02:16 | kados: there is plenty for Steven to find in the bibliographic framework if he looks. | |
| 02:17 | kados | yea |
| 02:17 | thd | kados: I will send you what I have completed tomorrow morning. |
| 02:18 | kados: have you committed the plugins. | |
| 02:18 | ? | |
| 02:20 | kados | thd: no |
| 02:20 | thd: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]etail.pl?bib=9508 | |
| 02:20 | thd: why are the 008's displaying so strangely | |
| 02:23 | thd | kados: would you not think that was the effect of the piping symbol? |
| 02:24 | kados | thd: I think I remember it happening before |
| 02:25 | thd | kados: The piping symbol is also used as a subfield separator when adding repeated subfields to the original Koha record columns. |
| 02:25 | kados | yea, so we need to fix that asap |
| 02:25 | certainly before 2.2.6 | |
| 02:25 | should be easy, bet paul could do it in like 2 secs | |
| 02:25 | thd | kados: paul knows where the code is actually located. |
| 02:27 | kados: Editing your own program is easy. Deciphering someone else's insufficiently commented code can take time. | |
| 02:29 | kados: I do know where some of that code is. I had to understand how repeated subfields were being stored for a fix that no longer works because the bug has been moved to a different location. | |
| 02:30 | kados | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]tail.pl?bib=23710 |
| 02:30 | thd: look for flaws in that test record | |
| 02:31 | thd | kados: paul does have a big comment in some recent changes to Biblio.pm about strange subfield display ordering problems that he was having trouble squashing so he wrote a very dirty workaround. |
| 02:35 | kados: you should look at how that record is stored in the MARC tables to see if it was ever stored correctly. | |
| 02:36 | kados | thd: it looks right to me |
| 02:36 | thd | kados: you need to distinguish between mere display problems and problems that go deeper. |
| 02:36 | kados | thd: why would I need to look in the tables? |
| 02:36 | thd: sure ... but i don't see any display problems with that test | |
| 02:36 | thd: do you? | |
| 02:36 | thd | kdaos: to see how the record is actually stored. |
| 02:39 | kados: No, I have no display problems with the record itself. I only have minor display problems for the functions on the far right that distracted me from seeing that the record looks fine. | |
| 02:40 | kados | thd: yea |
| 02:40 | thd | kados: had you changed the piping symbols to blanks for that record? |
| 02:40 | kados | thd: did I hear correctly that the default template now allows reording subfields? |
| 02:40 | thd: well ... read you anyway :-) | |
| 02:40 | thd: I wonder what it would take to get the NPL one to do that | |
| 02:41 | thd: and I wonder what it would be used for | |
| 02:42 | thd: that's strictly on the addbiblio.pl page right? | |
| 02:42 | thd | kados: the record editor otherwise only allows filling subfields in alphabetic order. |
| 02:43 | kados: many fields can require non-alphabetic order if the material being catalogued needs it. | |
| 02:43 | kados | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]mple/addbiblio.pl |
| 02:44 | thd: I don't think that's quite ready for production | |
| 02:44 | thd: it seems to be swapping subfield order randomly | |
| 02:44 | thd: let me know if it works as you expect it to | |
| 02:45 | thd | kados: maybe it is not ready I did not look closely but did see that something happened. |
| 02:47 | kados: see examples in related bug 997 for why it is needed. Field reordering is also needed but that is of lesser importance. | |
| 02:47 | kados | thd: it should restrain movement to within a single tag right? |
| 02:48 | thd | kados: maybe the arrows are too powerful :) |
| 02:48 | kados | thd: is this still true: |
| 02:48 | " the item to be catalogued | |
| 02:48 | differs from the Koha default subfield order. Even when the correct subfield | |
| 02:48 | order is imported from an external record, the Koha MARC framework has no means | |
| 02:48 | to preserve the order of subfields in data storage when the order differs from | |
| 02:48 | the Koha default order." | |
| 02:52 | thd | kados: Bug 997 has been largely fixed. |
| 02:53 | kados: There are corollary bugs relating to the record editor. | |
| 02:54 | kados: Actually the editor does not allow the creation of additional repeated subfields in the record editor, even experimentally. | |
| 02:56 | kados: Subfield repeatability is ignored in the record editor even when present in the framework but I think paul plans to include it for 2.2.6. | |
| 03:01 | kados: bug 997 record storage issues were always false when bulkmarcimport.pl was used and items were added externally as the comment I added to the bug indicates. | |
| 03:04 | kados | thd: so I can't currently create multiple repeated subfields in a single tag? |
| 03:05 | thd: what's an example of a field that should have repeatable subfields? | |
| 03:05 | thd | kados: no but you can designate repeatability in the framework for the record editor to use when that is fixed. |
| 03:06 | kados: most of them but not all material needs the repeatability when cataloguing. | |
| 03:08 | kados | thd: I'm guessing that's more important that being able to reorder subfields |
| 03:08 | thd | kados: the examples I gave in bug 997 generally have both need subfield repeatability and non-alphabetic ordering to catalogue. |
| 03:10 | kados: It is hard to say which is more important since they both often function together. | |
| 03:10 | kados | right |
| 03:12 | thd | kados: I think that paul plans to have both working for 2.2.6. If the frameworks are there to take advantage of them all will be well in the land :) |
| 03:14 | kados: Originally, he had not planned them until 3.0 but he has at least one customer that needed that bug fix sooner. | |
| 03:28 | kados | thd: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]mple/addbiblio.pl |
| 03:28 | thd: got the subfield ordering to work better | |
| 03:28 | thd: (only in the '1' tab for now) | |
| 03:29 | thd: give it a shot and tell me what you think | |
| 03:33 | it won't allow you to cross the tag boundry | |
| 03:33 | not actually functional yet either | |
| 03:33 | just moves the values around | |
| 03:34 | should be fairly trivial to move elements around around it though | |
| 03:34 | thd | kados: I had originally noticed the arrows and that something changed when pressing on them in the default template, however, one thing that I had not noticed at the time was that the labels, etc. do not change. |
| 03:34 | kados | thd: yet :-) |
| 03:36 | thd | kados: yes, I also imagined subfield + - signs that were not there. |
| 03:37 | were not there yet :-) | |
| 03:41 | kados | right :-) |
| 03:46 | thd: ok ... labels now switching too | |
| 03:47 | thd: had to play with them a bit though | |
| 03:47 | thd: might not be ideal | |
| 03:47 | thd: but I figure we can style it later | |
| 03:47 | also it's still not functional, meaning they still retain their original values on submit | |
| 04:04 | thd | kados: In addition to +- signs for subfield repeatability there should be an add more subfields link that brings up a pop-up to add a group of repeatable subfields selected from a checkbox according to a sequence specified in a framework parameter. |
| 04:04 | kados: Subfield order changing should allow the insertion of any subfield before an already completed subfield. I am uncertain that the example you showed for order changing was heading in that direction for already completed subfields. | |
| 04:04 | kados: actually a pop-up insertion form accessible from a link before and after every subfield is probably easier than moving arrows around. Moving arrows is how it is commonly done in user interfaces but not necessarily the most efficient. | |
| 04:10 | kados: If you do use arrows for moving any completed subfield content should also move. | |
| 04:13 | kados: The issue is not only about creating content from a completely empty record but adding additional in the midst of an already existing record. in the midst of an already existing set of subfields. | |
| 05:43 | hdl | hi |
| 05:43 | chris | hi hdl |
| 05:43 | paul | hello world |
| 05:43 | kados | hi paul |
| 05:43 | chris | and paul |
| 05:43 | hdl | hi chris. |
| 05:43 | kados | paul: just committed a fix that stops | from splitting fixed fields |
| 05:43 | paul | wow, nobody in bed ! |
| 05:44 | mason | me too! |
| 05:44 | chris | heh its a party |
| 05:44 | kados | yea, maybe we should have a meeting |
| 05:44 | :-) | |
| 05:44 | hdl | chris: did you see my request for some more information about parcel reception ? |
| 05:44 | chris | ahh yes |
| 05:44 | mason | me too! |
| 05:44 | chris | i meatn to answer sorry |
| 05:44 | mason | me too! |
| 05:44 | chris | p&p = post and packaging |
| 05:45 | paul | mason : U2 : nice music for a party :-D |
| 05:45 | hdl | is P&P so much different from freight ? |
| 05:45 | mason | im on my 2nd beer... |
| 05:45 | i wouldnt think so? | |
| 05:45 | chris | no, i think p&p is no longer required |
| 05:45 | p&p == freight | |
| 05:46 | hdl | OK. |
| 05:46 | chris | HLT like the freight to be split up over the order |
| 05:46 | so if you have 10 items, and the freight is 10 francs | |
| 05:46 | its 1 franc per item | |
| 05:46 | so that is used for the replacement cost | |
| 05:47 | does that help? | |
| 05:47 | hdl | Yes. |
| 05:47 | paul | chris : nobody here uses franc anymore : we use Euro since 3 years now ;-) |
| 05:47 | chris | oh of course :) |
| 05:47 | i meant ummm | |
| 05:47 | swiss francs :) | |
| 05:47 | paul | lol |
| 05:47 | (there are still "pacific francs" if I don't mind) | |
| 05:48 | chris | oh in new calendonia? |
| 05:48 | and tahiti? | |
| 05:48 | paul | yes. |
| 05:49 | chris | 2.5 hours to new caledonia from new zealand |
| 05:49 | (they are advertising holidays there on tv at the moment) | |
| 05:49 | maybe i should go to practice french before i visit france again :) | |
| 05:50 | si | chris: did it help last time? |
| 05:50 | the practice, I mean | |
| 05:51 | chris | a little, i could order a coffee and croissant .. so i could eat breakfast :) |
| 05:52 | si | and lunch, and dinner |
| 05:52 | what's the french for croissant, then? | |
| 05:52 | :-) | |
| 05:52 | chris | :-) |
| 05:52 | paul | si : it's croissant |
| 05:52 | chris | i only visited paris for 1 week, most people spoke english better than me :-) |
| 05:53 | mason | cwah-sont |
| 05:53 | si | paul: yup, all our best words are pinched from french |
| 05:55 | pox | |
| 05:55 | chris | whoops |
| 06:00 | mason | ok, ive got to head out kids |
| 06:00 | chris | night mason |
| 06:02 | si | excellent, that's that fixed |
| 06:03 | mason | chris: ive made a bit of progess with the item/ordernum bug |
| 06:03 | http://koha.hlt.katipo.co.nz/c[…]42605&catview=yes | |
| 06:03 | the links arnt worksing , and i havent sorted thru what fields arnt needed | |
| 06:04 | chris | good start |
| 06:04 | ill look more properly tomorrow when my brain isnt so tired :) | |
| 06:05 | mason | i might have a crack later tonite while its fresh in my memory |
| 06:57 | thd | paul hdl: Do you plan for framework specified subfield repeatability to be useful in the record editor for 2.2.6? |
| 08:50 | Paras | room need some help |
| 08:51 | i have installed koha ... and whe i tried to run.. http://192.168.2.19/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl cannot be executes and throws Internal server error | |
| 08:52 | error log of opac is | |
| 08:52 | install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so' | |
| 08:53 | help plz | |
| 09:49 | hdl | Paras |
| 09:49 | around ? | |
| 09:49 | Paras: Seems either you don't use mysql or you didn't install DBD::mysql | |
| 09:50 | Paras: pls tell us more about your OS and installation | |
| 10:23 | Paras | hdl, DBD::mysql is there |
| 10:23 | hdl, it's FC3 | |
| 10:25 | hdl | /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/ |
| 10:25 | have you been there ? | |
| 10:25 | is there mysql.so | |
| 10:25 | ? | |
| 10:25 | Paras | hdl, it has mysql.bs mysql.so |
| 10:26 | hdl | is mysql-devel installed ? |
| 10:26 | Paras | hdl, no |
| 10:26 | hdl, do i need it? | |
| 10:26 | hdl | or mysql server ... (I can't remember) |
| 10:26 | Paras | hdl, mysql-server is there |
| 10:27 | hdl, while installtion mysql datbases and tables for koha is successully created | |
| 10:28 | hdl | yes, but this is a Perl DBD::mysql error. |
| 10:28 | Paras | yes seems so.. |
| 10:28 | hdl | It does not recognize your server. |
| 10:28 | Paras | [Thu Feb 23 17:23:26 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Premature end of script headers: opac-main.pl |
| 10:28 | [Thu Feb 23 17:23:45 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] (13)Permission denied: exec of '/usr/local/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac-main.pl' failed | |
| 10:28 | that is the opac error log | |
| 10:29 | hdl | chmod -R uog+x /usr/local/koha/opac/ |
| 10:29 | Paras | hdl, ok.. |
| 10:29 | hdl | (should be a permission error. |
| 10:30 | Paras | done.. same problem |
| 10:31 | apache runs as apache.apache and the permissions seems ok to me | |
| 10:31 | hdl | Koha file owner must be in apache permission and files with x permiddion. |
| 10:31 | cd /usr/local/koha/opac/ | |
| 10:31 | is this wher you installed koha ? | |
| 10:31 | Paras | hdl, yes |
| 10:32 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 apache apache 1727 Feb 23 17:02 opac-main.pl | |
| 10:32 | permissions seems ok | |
| 10:35 | this is koha-error log | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so' for module DBD::mysql: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: failed to map segment from shared object: Permission denied at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 230. | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] at (eval 5) line 3 | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Compilation failed in require at (eval 5) line 3. | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Perhaps a required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] at /var/www/html/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Context.pm line 411 | |
| 10:35 | [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Premature end of script headers: mainpage.pl | |
| 10:35 | hdl, so what do u think.. DBD::mysql not working? | |
| 10:36 | hdl | there seems to be two problems : |
| 10:36 | Paras | hdl, ok |
| 10:36 | hdl | First execute permission. |
| 10:36 | then DBD::Mysql. | |
| 10:37 | Paras | hdl, ok |
| 10:37 | hdl | I would try and reinstall DBD::Mysql. |
| 10:37 | Paras | hdl, me too.. will do it :) |
| 10:40 | hdl, it seems ok with DBD::mysql | |
| 10:40 | permission problem is still there | |
| 10:42 | i have change /usr/local/koha to 777 with -R | |
| 10:42 | same problem |
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