← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:21 | kados | hdl: I'm here now |
| 11:21 | hdl | hi |
| 11:21 | kados | hdl: is paul here? |
| 11:21 | it seems no | |
| 11:22 | hdl: could you briefly explain the 'Link' feature in MARC subfields constraints? | |
| 11:22 | hdl: fun :-) | |
| 11:22 | hdl | QUERY : Title= "chaos" at /home/hdl/Koha/Code/savannah/koha-dev/koha//C4/SearchMarc.pm line 237., referer: http://localhost:8083/cgi-bin/[…].pl?type=intranet |
| 11:22 | [Thu Feb 23 15:21:16 2006] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Use of uninitialized value in subroutine entry at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7/i386-linux/ZOOM.pm line 280., referer: http://localhost:8083/cgi-bin/[…].pl?type=intranet | |
| 11:22 | [Thu Feb 23 15:21:16 2006] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Can't call method "option" on an undefined value at /home/hdl/Koha/Code/savannah/koha-dev/koha//C4/SearchMarc.pm line 242., referer: http://localhost:8083/cgi-bin/[…].pl?type=intranet | |
| 11:22 | ||
| 11:24 | kados : link feature seems to allow ppl to search for data like the one selected but I donot know more. | |
| 11:24 | kados | hdl: it is different than 'Search also' thohugh right? |
| 11:24 | hdl | When paul comes ack, he can explain |
| 11:24 | Yes. | |
| 11:25 | Search also will search in other fields. | |
| 11:25 | Link, will display a glass after author or subject for instance. | |
| 11:26 | On which you can click to browse other biblio on the same author/subject | |
| 11:26 | *kados : can you exmplain what I did wrong ? | |
| 11:27 | my tab is in /usr/local/share/idzebra/tab | |
| 11:27 | rebuild_zebra.pl doesnot seem to work : | |
| 11:28 | Error 10000 : Connect failed | |
| 11:28 | ZOOM error 10000 "Connect failed" (addinfo: "localhost:2100") from diag-set 'ZOOM' | |
| 11:29 | updatedatabase worked fine... apart from some : no mapping found for some characters. | |
| 11:30 | and DBD::mysql::db do failed: The used table type doesn't support FULLTEXT indexes at ./updatedatabase line 1029. for bibliosubtitle or bibliothesaurus | |
| 11:31 | kados | interesting |
| 11:31 | that DBD error is quite strange | |
| 11:32 | I don't think we're doing any FULLTEXT indesing | |
| 11:32 | indexing even | |
| 11:32 | hdl: how did you start zebra? | |
| 11:32 | hdl | zebrasrv @2100 |
| 11:32 | kados | you need to use: |
| 11:32 | zebrasrv localhost:2100/kohatest | |
| 11:32 | where kohatest is the db name in koha.conf | |
| 11:33 | hdl | I followed your notes ;) |
| 11:33 | kados | yea, they are a bit outdated :-) |
| 11:33 | I will write a new set very soon | |
| 11:39 | hdl | one need to launch a zebra server before rebuild_zebra.pl |
| 11:39 | Then run zebra index engine | |
| 11:39 | kados | correct |
| 11:39 | hdl | ? |
| 11:39 | kados | start zebra |
| 11:39 | using above command | |
| 11:39 | then run rebuild_zebra.pl | |
| 11:39 | thd: are you using latest cvs? | |
| 11:40 | hdl | I(hdl) am now |
| 11:40 | kados | oops .. I mean hdl :-) |
| 11:40 | hdl | :) |
| 11:40 | :D | |
| 11:40 | kados | heh |
| 11:40 | thd | kados: not since last night. |
| 11:40 | kados | thd: morning :-) |
| 11:40 | thd: http://www.loc.gov/marc/biblio[…]c/nlr/nlr00x.html | |
| 11:40 | hdl | morning thd |
| 11:40 | kados | thd: been thiking about that list and Koha's current frameworks |
| 11:40 | thd | good morning kados |
| 11:41 | kados | thd: it would require many many frameworks to handle all those requirements |
| 11:41 | hdl | kados : why rm -f biblios ? |
| 11:41 | kados | hdl: not anymore |
| 11:41 | hdl: those instructions are too old to use | |
| 11:42 | hdl: are you converting a 2.2.5 system to use zebra? | |
| 11:42 | hdl | 2.2.4 in fact |
| 11:43 | kados | same thing |
| 11:43 | so here's what to do: | |
| 11:43 | check out latest head cvs | |
| 11:43 | hdl | done |
| 11:43 | kados | edit koha.conf to include: |
| 11:44 | zebradb=localhost:2100/kohatest | |
| 11:44 | at the bottom | |
| 11:44 | go to cvs koha directory | |
| 11:44 | type: | |
| 11:44 | ln -s misc/zebra/unimarc zebra | |
| 11:44 | thd | kados: you would need about 25 frameworks. |
| 11:45 | hdl | now done |
| 11:45 | kados | cd zebra |
| 11:45 | hdl | ok |
| 11:45 | kados | zebraidx update biblios |
| 11:45 | you may need to 'mkdir lock' first ... it will warn you | |
| 11:46 | that command tells zebra: OK ... this is a valid zebra database ... set up the basics for me | |
| 11:46 | when update happens successfully (hopefully you have no records in biblios, I forgot to mention) | |
| 11:46 | then type: | |
| 11:46 | zebrasrv localhost:2100/kohatest | |
| 11:46 | it will start zebra | |
| 11:47 | NOW ... you are ready to attempt to rebuild_zebra.pl | |
| 11:47 | let me know when you get that far | |
| 11:47 | hdl | zebraidx update biblios : what does it do ? |
| 11:47 | kados | hdl: that command tells zebra: OK ... this is a valid zebra database |
| 11:47 | ... set up the basics for me | |
| 11:47 | you could also say: | |
| 11:47 | zebraidx init | |
| 11:47 | same thing | |
| 11:47 | hdl | I did so. |
| 11:48 | kados | wait ... it's not the same |
| 11:48 | I believe you must use zebraidx update biblios | |
| 11:48 | do you have a biblios directory? | |
| 11:48 | it should be a blank directory | |
| 11:48 | in the same location as zebra.cfg | |
| 11:48 | hdl | But it answered : |
| 11:48 | 14:24:36-23/02 zebraidx(22194) [log] zebra_start zebra.cfg 1.3.32 | |
| 11:48 | 14:24:36-23/02 zebraidx(22194) [warn] open lock/norm..LCK [No such file or directory] | |
| 11:48 | 14:24:36-23/02 zebraidx(22194) [warn] open lock/shadow..LCK [No such file or directory] | |
| 11:48 | 14:24:36-23/02 zebraidx(22194) [log][app2] zebra_stop | |
| 11:48 | ||
| 11:48 | kados | mkdir lock |
| 11:49 | (see above comments :-)) | |
| 11:49 | hdl | I hadnot at that time. |
| 11:49 | Now, I did. | |
| 11:49 | But I launched zebrasrv | |
| 11:50 | and rebuild_zebra | |
| 11:50 | (Logs are impressive !!!) | |
| 11:50 | kados | bbiab |
| 11:59 | hdl: ok ... | |
| 11:59 | hdl: so now you are ready to attempt to run rebuild_zebra.pl | |
| 11:59 | make sure you export KOHA_CONF | |
| 12:00 | run it and see what happens | |
| 12:00 | cool! | |
| 12:00 | and it's showing up in the log? | |
| 12:00 | hdl | Quite long... |
| 12:00 | kados | yea, it's slow |
| 12:00 | in part because it creates a new connection for each update | |
| 12:00 | this week I plan to fix that | |
| 12:00 | and do speed tests | |
| 12:03 | thd: so ... getting back to the frameworks | |
| 12:04 | thd | yes kados |
| 12:04 | kados | it seems like we need two for each materials designation |
| 12:04 | one for original cataloging | |
| 12:04 | and one for editing existing records | |
| 12:04 | at least with the current scheme ... right? | |
| 12:05 | thd | kados: I do not understand the reason for that |
| 12:05 | kados | thd: because take koha.liblime.com for example |
| 12:06 | thd: if you try to edit an existing record, it will replace many of the fields with new values | |
| 12:06 | thd: and I'm not sure I have control over when a plugin works and when it doesn't | |
| 12:07 | thd | kados: We need a minimal level and a national level. The national level is merely to prove that national level will work on the Koha record editor. |
| 12:07 | kados | right ... we still need subfield repeatability and reordering though |
| 12:08 | but I don't think we can have a single framework for the whole national level | |
| 12:08 | I could be wrong though | |
| 12:08 | thd | kados: The plugins should test for empty values and only overwrite what is empty. |
| 12:08 | kados | thd: yes I agree, but I'm not sure they can do this currently |
| 12:08 | thd: it works already for some fields, like 'date' | |
| 12:08 | thd | kados: about 25 frameworks |
| 12:08 | kados | thd: is that going to confuse catalogers? |
| 12:10 | thd | kados: It should be one framework that can be transmuted by changing control field values but that is a long term goal. |
| 12:11 | kados: Which fields have the problem to which you are referring for new and existing records. | |
| 12:11 | ? | |
| 12:11 | kados | thd: all fields |
| 12:11 | wait i might be wrong here | |
| 12:12 | I guess it's just 003 | |
| 12:12 | we should use a different plugin for that anyway | |
| 12:12 | thd | kados: your plugin for 008 seemed to accept the values that were already there. |
| 12:12 | kados | thd: yep, it does |
| 12:12 | thd: are there no indicators shown on the current editor? | |
| 12:13 | thd | kados: 003 does not need to change in bibliographic records but continually repopulating it would cause no problem. |
| 12:14 | kados: the indicator positions are there, at least the last time I looked. | |
| 12:14 | kados | http://www.loc.gov/marc/biblio[…]c/nlr/nlr6xx.html |
| 12:15 | why does the minimal level not include the 600s? | |
| 12:16 | thd | kados: Indicators are troublesome because they do not yet have a link for plugin management in the framework. Only manual entry and value lists are provided. |
| 12:16 | kados: one value list for two indicators is a problem. | |
| 12:17 | kados: I also hope that the blank indicators for control fields using the '@' subfield hack are being discarded. | |
| 12:19 | kados: what was the last link meant to show? That subject headings are optional at the minimal level? | |
| 12:19 | kados | thd: yea |
| 12:19 | thd: how is that possible? | |
| 12:20 | thd: does Koha conform to the minimal level now? | |
| 12:20 | thd: well, I mean koha.liblime.com of course | |
| 12:21 | thd | kados: That is not a US practise but it does go on in some countries where the library science tradition is about correctly identifying the edition but not subject guided access. |
| 12:22 | kados: Subject guided access needs an expensively maintained thesaurus to work well. | |
| 12:23 | kados: Actually the subject thesaurus is an invention of the last century. | |
| 12:24 | kados: The oldest items at LC have no subject headings only classification by the LC Classification System. | |
| 12:27 | kados: LCC dates from the beginning of the last century but LCSH are closer to mid-century. | |
| 12:29 | paul_away | hdl ? |
| 12:29 | thd | kados: The disparity of library science practise causes problems for the IFLA where both rich county and poor country practise must be accommodated. |
| 12:30 | paul: did you wee my question from much earlier this morning? | |
| 12:31 | paul | nope. I had dozens of "connection lost" because of a connection failure. |
| 12:32 | thd | paul hdl: Do you plan for framework specified subfield repeatability to be useful in the record editor for 2.2.6? |
| 12:35 | paul: Is that prose too turgid for understanding? | |
| 12:36 | kados | paul: I have beeen playing with subfield reordering |
| 12:36 | paul: I think I have devised a better scheme that prevents ordering outside of a tag | |
| 12:36 | paul: my demo has it currently turned off because I have a web demo to a client later this afternon and it's not quite stable | |
| 12:37 | paul: but I"ll show you what I have later (or tomorrow most likely) | |
| 12:38 | thd | paul: I know you had expected to have subfield reordering working for 2.2.6, however, I am asking about adding additional repeated subfields. |
| 12:39 | kados: did you see my comments about your approach to subfield ordering late last night? | |
| 12:40 | kados | thd: no |
| 12:40 | thd | kados: I had been disconnected and then reposted them. |
| 12:42 | kados | thd: didnt see them |
| 12:43 | thd | 23/02/06 20:04:09+-5<thd:#koha>kados: In addition to +- signs for subfield repeatability there should be an add more subfields link that brings up a pop-up to add a group of repeatable subfields selected from a checkbox according to a sequence specified in a framework parameter. |
| 12:43 | 23/02/06 20:04:30+-5<thd:#koha>kados: Subfield order changing should allow the insertion of any subfield before an already completed subfield. I am uncertain that the example you showed for order changing was heading in that direction for already completed subfields. | |
| 12:43 | 23/02/06 20:04:49+-5<thd:#koha>kados: actually a pop-up insertion form accessible from a link before and after every subfield is probably easier than moving arrows around. Moving arrows is how it is commonly done in user interfaces but not necessarily the most efficient. | |
| 12:43 | 23/02/06 20:10:15+-5<thd:#koha>kados: If you do use arrows for moving any completed subfield content should also move. | |
| 12:43 | 23/02/06 20:13:37+-5<thd:#koha>kados: The issue is not only about creating content from a completely empty record but adding additional in the midst of an already existing record. in the midst of an already existing set of subfields. | |
| 12:44 | kados | thd: the last design I worked up moved the content as well as the designator, etc. |
| 12:45 | thd | s/additional/additional subfields/ |
| 12:46 | kados: That is fine then as long as we can get more new repeatable subfields in there somehow. | |
| 12:46 | kados | thd: explain why we need a pop-up |
| 12:46 | thd: because sometimes you would want: | |
| 12:46 | $a | |
| 12:46 | $x | |
| 12:46 | $a | |
| 12:46 | $b | |
| 12:46 | ? | |
| 12:47 | not always a duplicate of the same one? | |
| 12:47 | thd | kados: It is not a need but just what I thought might be more efficient. |
| 12:49 | kados: you have the basic concept right about why I thought a pop-up might be good or an insert more link but not limited to inserting another copy of the single adjacent subfield. | |
| 12:50 | kados: you often want supplementary groups of subfields that work together in a particular order. | |
| 12:51 | kados: look at the multiple publishers 260 and the formatted table of contents 505 examples in bug 997. | |
| 12:53 | kados: especially the 505 example would be rather tedious to create one repeated subfield at a time and then moving it into the correct relative position. | |
| 12:58 | kados: The most efficient way to create the 505 example would be to populate the field with many author title pairs ordered by a framework ordering default for that field and then cut and paste text from an OCR scan of the table of contents. | |
| 13:01 | kados: you should create anything that is easy enough to create valid records. A more efficient scheme can always be added later. | |
| 13:02 | kados | thd: paul just showed me how to update information from one field to another using a plugin |
| 13:03 | thd | kados: just try and avoid blinders about how every friendly user interface reorders elements in a list. |
| 13:03 | kados | thd: lets pospone the repeatability problem and figure out which fields/valus should be auto-set based on other fields |
| 13:04 | thd | paul: I have been urging kados and owen to look at that and authorities handling since many months ago but they had no time then ;) |
| 13:05 | paul: It is certainly the single best feature of Koha. | |
| 13:06 | paul: It is something that every system should have yet without almost a single exception none do. | |
| 13:07 | kados | my opinion is that it's a nice feature, but realistically, for us libraries, Koha's editor isn't up to par yet |
| 13:07 | using an external editor is still a good idea | |
| 13:07 | if you want to ensure good data in your db | |
| 13:07 | now ... hopefully, with 2.2.6 or soon after, that will change | |
| 13:08 | but right now, i think Koha's editor is 'entry-level' | |
| 13:08 | thd | paul: If we could get element repeatability and ordering fixed in the record editor working well then Koha would be a generation ahead of other record editors. |
| 13:08 | kados | thd: don't other editors do this already? |
| 13:08 | thd | kados: no others do not to the extent that I have investigated. |
| 13:10 | kados: the best that I have seen have context sensitive pop-up help files for the field that you are on. | |
| 13:10 | kados | TLC's editor is pretty nice |
| 13:10 | and I'm pretty sure it handles subfield repeatability | |
| 13:11 | thd | kados: I just described the TLC editor but it is mostly a free text editor. |
| 13:11 | kados | yep |
| 13:12 | thd | kados: I told them what they ought to do but they had not even thought of that. |
| 13:12 | kados | thd: OK ... just read 997's 505 paragraph |
| 13:13 | thd: of course, your criticism of that record isn't quite on, since Koha would preserve subfield order in that case | |
| 13:13 | thd: even if not displaying it as expected | |
| 13:14 | thd | kados: the preservation and display issues for 997 have been mostly corrected thanks to paul. |
| 13:14 | kados | thd: i think some judicious use of javascript could really make the process of editing a record much easier |
| 13:15 | thd: 'mostly' ? | |
| 13:16 | thd | kados: The detail view and the ISBD view have problems with repeated subfields outside of 6XX which has been fixed. |
| 13:17 | kados | thd: there are no preservation issues to my knowledge |
| 13:17 | thd: we should do a test | |
| 13:17 | thd | kados: Also creating original record content and editing existing content are still issues. |
| 13:17 | kados | thd: import a record using bulkmarcimport |
| 13:17 | thd: then export again and do a 'diff' on it | |
| 13:18 | thd: (use of an external cataloging client solves that problem) | |
| 13:18 | thd: (until we fix the framework) | |
| 13:19 | thd | kados: I attached a comment to 997 long ago qualifying the original statement which had been underinformed. |
| 13:19 | kados | yep |
| 13:20 | thd | kados: one record is not a sufficient test. Many varied and troublesome records might be. |
| 13:21 | kados | right |
| 13:22 | thd | kados: I need to write the sole remaining LC CDS technical services employee back to obtain a set of bibliographic test files. |
| 13:22 | kados | thd: can we get a case scenerio for auto-updating a fixed field from another field's value? |
| 13:23 | thd: ie, an example of when this should happen and how? | |
| 13:23 | thd | kados: you had two from yesterday. |
| 13:24 | kados | I dont' remember them ... |
| 13:24 | thd | kados: illustrations and content elements for books to use in 008. |
| 13:26 | kados: illustrations would be coded in 300 | |
| 13:27 | s/coded/abbreviated/ | |
| 13:28 | kados | right |
| 13:29 | thd | kados: 300 $b |
| 13:32 | kados so you regular expression search of 300 $b would be looking for ~=/ill[.a-z]/ and many other things. | |
| 13:35 | s/ill\[\.a-z\]/ill[.u]/ | |
| 13:36 | kados | right |
| 13:36 | thd | kados: also ~=/col[.o]/ for variations of colour etc. |
| 13:37 | kados: ill. and col. are the standard AACR2 abbreviations | |
| 13:38 | kados: although you may not want to miss the typos :) | |
| 13:41 | kados | is there a comprehensive list of possible values for 300$b? |
| 13:42 | I can't find one ... would that be in AARC? | |
| 13:43 | thd | kados: it is rule 2.5C1-2.5C2. |
| 13:43 | kados | is AACR3 out yet? |
| 13:43 | ahh ... coming in 2007 | |
| 13:45 | thd | kados: when you were becoming very fatigued yesterday I explained that AACR3 is a complete rewrite where the committee threw out the first draft and had to start over because of too many objections. |
| 13:46 | kados | heh |
| 13:47 | thd | kados: Whatever the virtues and vices of AACR3, it will not cure the legacy records. |
| 13:55 | kados: common 300 $b usage may not always be sufficient for good completion of BOOKS 008/18-21 but it can succeed most of the time. | |
| 13:56 | kados | thd: found a complete list: |
| 13:56 | http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib0379.htm | |
| 13:56 | thd: this will be quite easy to do | |
| 13:56 | thd: though I think I'll need to rest a bit first | |
| 13:56 | thd: still feeling pretty sick | |
| 13:57 | thd | kados: 008 was a relatively recent addition to USMARC in the grand scheme of MARC time and initially had to use record parsing of textual data to apply it to old records retrospectively. |
| 13:59 | kados: try to avoid exacerbating your condition when work is too much fun. | |
| 13:59 | :) | |
| 14:19 | kados | thd: I found and fixed the problem with | btw |
| 14:19 | thd: can you construct a default leader value string? | |
| 14:19 | thd: I'll reintroduce | into the plugins as the default value where applicable | |
| 14:21 | thd | kados: I gave you default values for minimal level books records yesterday. Do you want them again? |
| 14:22 | kados: the existing leader string default is already what I had suggested to paul. | |
| 14:25 | kados: he made a leader plugin for MARC 21 using the default I suggested because the leader is almost identical between MARC 21 and UNIMARC so the extra MARC 21 plugin was a trivial amount of extra work. | |
| 14:33 | kados | thd: the default leader plugin makes no use of | |
| 14:34 | thd: the default value is: | |
| 14:34 | " nam 7a 4500" | |
| 17:13 | thd: BWS Johnson just wrote: | |
| 17:13 | The 650 x problem is a big deal....Now, if there is away to make the subject subheadings play nice with their bigger brothers, let | |
| 17:13 | me know | |
| 17:14 | chris | is that what i fixed the other day? |
| 17:15 | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]Cdetail.pl?bib=29 | |
| 17:15 | that bit? | |
| 17:15 | kados | dunno |
| 17:16 | didn't that just put the '650' back in? | |
| 17:16 | chris | could be |
| 17:16 | kados | or did it affect ordering too |
| 17:16 | chris | probably not |
| 17:16 | couple of nice emails from stephen and brooke though | |
| 17:17 | nice way to wake up | |
| 17:23 | thd | kados: what is meant by the 650 X problem? Is that the economical MARC view that you made the preference with a standard value to avoid? Therefore the same problem to which chris is referring? |
| 17:25 | kados: What you had created the preference for was presentation only where the underlying data is valid. | |
| 17:26 | kados: Do you want my SQL dump of marc_subfield_structure so far? | |
| 17:28 | kados: I am having to add most of the fields in the MARC 21 specification. Most of the fields were in fact missing from the default framework. | |
| 17:30 | kados: I still have much more to do. I will need to actually rest soon. :) | |
| 18:02 | kados | thd: did you just try to call? |
| 18:11 | thd | kados: It was not I. |
| 18:12 | chris | not me either |
| 18:12 | :) | |
| 18:32 | kados | hehe |
| 00:02 | woo ... back online | |
| 00:02 | chris | yeah we think bad ram |
| 00:42 | thd | kados: I have thought that filling every unused field and subfield in unmanaged fields and subfields will preserve all obsolete and local use data that people might have. However, I am uncertain if that may introduce a noticeable performance drag on the framework. |
| 00:44 | kados: This would be to protect against data loss when adding items or otherwise editing records. | |
| 00:50 | kados | thd: yep |
| 00:51 | thd: it becomes quite a large form element | |
| 00:52 | thd | kados: I do not understand your last sentence. |
| 06:15 | hdl | hello |
| 06:28 | osmoze | bonjour hdl :) |
| 06:29 | hdl | bonjour osmoze. |
| 06:29 | paul | hello les frenchies |
| 06:30 | osmoze | :) |
| 07:01 | hdl | Someone using mediatypetable around ? chris kados ??? |
| 07:02 | paul ? | |
| 07:02 | paul | nope |
| 07:03 | osmoze | paul, il y a combien d inscrit sur la liste fr maintenant ? |
| 07:03 | paul | 123. Ca stagne un petit peu |
| 07:04 | (on voit quelques désabonnements, et quelques abonnements, qui s'équilibrent) | |
| 07:04 | osmoze | la derniere annonce sur la liste etait de 60, donc c est toujours ca :) |
| 07:04 | paul | 181 sur la liste annonce. |
| 07:04 | osmoze | et sur la devel, tu peux le savoir ? |
| 07:05 | paul | tu retardes, il me semble que j'ai récemment souhaité la bienvenue sur la liste à la personne qui a écrit juste après être inscrit et qui étit la 120° |
| 07:05 | osmoze | roh, aurais je loupé un mail ^^ |
| 07:05 | paul | non (c'est joshua l'admin). quelques dizaines |
| 07:05 | osmoze | ok merci :) |
| 07:06 | paul | dans la liste koha anglaises, il y a plusieurs centaines d'abonnés. |
| 07:06 | genre 500 | |
| 07:06 | osmoze | ca fait pas enorme si c est la liste internationale :( |
| 07:07 | en comparaison | |
| 07:08 | paul | (pas sûr du chiffre) |
| 07:08 | cela dit, ce n'est pas anormal. Nous nous adressons à une niche très spécifique. | |
| 07:09 | et nous n'aurons jamais 50 000 abonnés ! | |
| 07:09 | (et puis je vais être mauvaise langue : contrairement à d'autres, nous n'annoncons que des chiffres vérifiables et minimums) | |
| 07:10 | (pas comme certains autres SIGB libres qui annoncent des milliers d'installation) | |
| 07:14 | osmoze | cad ? |
| 07:14 | du style pmb ? | |
| 07:15 | paul | c'est pas moi qui l'ai dit ! |
← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index