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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:01 | kados | morning owen |
| 17:48 | chris | monring |
| 17:48 | morning even | |
| 17:48 | owen | Hi chris |
| 17:49 | shedges | moonring to you! |
| 17:50 | chris | heh |
| 17:50 | did you even play a game called | |
| 17:50 | 'the lords of midnight' ? | |
| 17:50 | shedges | ?? nope |
| 17:50 | chris | i had it on my old zx spectrum when i was 12 or so. |
| 17:51 | there was a moon ring in that :) | |
| 17:51 | shedges | maybe the typo was subconscious? |
| 17:51 | owen | Wow, logbot spoke! |
| 17:52 | chris | ?? speak |
| 17:52 | i wonder what it knows the definitions of | |
| 17:53 | shedges | ?? logbot |
| 17:53 | (doesn't even know it's own name) | |
| 17:54 | chris | :) |
| 18:14 | is kados about ? | |
| 18:28 | kados | chris: yep |
| 18:28 | chris: howdy :-) | |
| 18:29 | chris | heya |
| 18:29 | kados | just the man I need to speak to :-) |
| 18:29 | chris | do you remember your mailman admin password for savanah ? cos i dont, i was wonderign if you could find that google groups subscription and kill it |
| 18:29 | kados | (basically, they don't work in 2.2.5 :-) |
| 18:29 | yep, I'll take care of it | |
| 18:32 | chris: horowhena uses fines right? | |
| 18:32 | chris: did you have to tweak fines2.pl before it would work for them? | |
| 18:32 | chris | hmm dont remember doing |
| 18:32 | that | |
| 18:33 | kados | fines don't seem to be working for two of our clients |
| 18:33 | chris | whats it doing wrong? |
| 18:33 | just 2? | |
| 18:33 | kados | well ... I dont' think it's doing anything :-) |
| 18:33 | honestly, I'm at a loss for how to troubleshoot it | |
| 18:34 | I've got a cron job in | |
| 18:34 | /etc/cron.daily/wlpl.daily | |
| 18:34 | looks like this: | |
| 18:34 | #!/bin/sh | |
| 18:34 | export PERL5LIB=/home/kohatest/cvsrepos/2.2.x/koha | |
| 18:34 | export KOHA_CONF=/home/kohatest/etc/koha.conf | |
| 18:34 | /home/kohatest/cron/fines2.pl | |
| 18:35 | EXITVALUE=$? | |
| 18:35 | if [ $EXITVALUE != 0 ]; then | |
| 18:35 | echo "Problem with setting fines" | |
| 18:35 | fi | |
| 18:35 | exit 0 | |
| 18:35 | chris | ahh is the fines stuff set up in issuingrules.pl ? |
| 18:35 | kados | it's got proper permissions and fines2 has proper permissions |
| 18:35 | yea, i think so | |
| 18:35 | chris | have you run it by hand? |
| 18:36 | kados | yea, it seems to do _something_ |
| 18:36 | but I think it only does stuff with longoverdu items | |
| 18:36 | ie, lost stuff | |
| 18:36 | it doesn't increment fines as you'd expect | |
| 18:36 | so I have a user account, I check out a book, a week later I check, and no fines on that user | |
| 18:37 | even though that user should increment fines after 3 days | |
| 18:37 | chris | have you tried |
| 18:37 | my $DEBUG=1; | |
| 18:37 | then running it by hand | |
| 18:37 | kados | nope |
| 18:38 | chris | id do that, and it will tell you if its finding overdues |
| 18:38 | and if its finding overdues, but the fines arent being placed | |
| 18:38 | then its because | |
| 18:38 | if ($amount > 0){ | |
| 18:39 | $amount isnt getting set .. which means CalcFine isnt working | |
| 18:40 | which is in C4::Circulation::Fines; | |
| 18:40 | and usually it doesnt work, because the rules arent set up | |
| 18:40 | kados | hmmm |
| 18:40 | chris | altho there are other reasons |
| 18:40 | hmm that looks likes it found overdues | |
| 18:41 | and is wanting to place changes | |
| 18:41 | charges even | |
| 18:41 | of 10 cents | |
| 18:41 | kados | that sounds about right |
| 18:42 | but see the '891' found | |
| 18:42 | chris | yeah thats right |
| 18:42 | kados | aren't 891 listed there? |
| 18:42 | why only a few dozen? | |
| 18:42 | chris | its only the ones that fall on todays cycle |
| 18:43 | kados | ahh |
| 18:43 | so that makes sense | |
| 18:43 | but ... it's not updating them right? | |
| 18:43 | or it's only updating some of them | |
| 18:43 | chris | doesnt look like it |
| 18:43 | hmm yeah where is the insert line | |
| 18:43 | kados | are the categories hard-coded in there ... could that be why? |
| 18:43 | chris | 2 secs |
| 18:44 | ah no .. its UpdateFine | |
| 18:44 | id suspect that | |
| 18:45 | id take a look at that, and put some prints in there | |
| 18:45 | and see why its not doing the update | |
| 18:45 | i think there are a bunch of prints you can uncomment | |
| 18:45 | kados | i as in there, already uncommented the prints |
| 18:45 | was even | |
| 18:45 | the 'not in account' one is printed | |
| 18:46 | chris | hmm right |
| 18:46 | so its a new fine | |
| 18:47 | so it looks like the sth2->execute isnt working for some reason | |
| 18:47 | could put a || die $sth2->err_str; | |
| 18:47 | on the end of that line | |
| 18:47 | and run it again and see if it dies, and tells you why | |
| 18:48 | kados | k |
| 18:49 | chris: ok ... now it's a slightly different message ... didn't die though | |
| 18:49 | output in the same place as before | |
| 18:49 | chris | does it say updating? |
| 18:49 | sweet | |
| 18:49 | that looks exactly right | |
| 18:49 | kados | huh |
| 18:50 | chris | ie there is .10 already on .. it doenst need updating |
| 18:50 | kados | if so, why isn't my account reflecting charges? |
| 18:50 | after two weeks of having an item out | |
| 18:50 | chris | are you in that list? |
| 18:50 | check one of the accounts of the ppl that is in that list | |
| 18:51 | kados | yea, looks right |
| 18:51 | chris | then id checked issuingrules.pl for the itemtype and your member type |
| 18:51 | kados | so maybe my cron job's not running? |
| 18:51 | yea, checked that a dozen times | |
| 18:51 | chris | right |
| 18:51 | id suspect the cron job then | |
| 18:51 | can you set it up to email you when it runs? | |
| 18:52 | if it emailed you this output (take out the die statement first :-)) | |
| 18:52 | then it would help spot what is going wrong | |
| 18:52 | kados | right |
| 18:52 | chris | ie fines2.pl | mailx -s Fines joshualiblime.com |
| 18:53 | something like that anyway | |
| 18:53 | kados | right |
| 18:54 | chris | so check that that works from the commandline .. then set it up for the cron job to do it |
| 18:54 | and if you dont get mail .. the cron job isnt running | |
| 18:54 | kados | right |
| 18:54 | so the | means 'and' ? | |
| 18:54 | chris | pipe |
| 18:54 | kados | ahh |
| 18:54 | chris | to a process |
| 18:54 | kados | right |
| 18:54 | duh :-) | |
| 18:54 | chris | > = pipe to a file |
| 18:55 | so my cron job looks a little like this | |
| 18:57 | 50 17 * * * perl -I /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/ /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/misc/fines2.pl | mailx -s "fines" chriskatipo.co.nz |
|
| 18:57 | in the crontab | |
| 18:58 | (something like that anyway) | |
| 18:59 | kados | right |
| 18:59 | thanks! | |
| 19:01 | chris | np |
| 19:04 | kados | chris: so tomorrow's the first day of full-time Koha work, eh? |
| 19:04 | excited? :-) | |
| 19:05 | I know I am :-) | |
| 19:07 | chris | ahh, first there is work for someone else .. setting me up a test machine and getting head running so i can start debugging |
| 19:07 | which will give me time to try and clear some stuff off my timesheet | |
| 19:09 | kados | if that would help |
| 19:09 | chris | i think we will run up a xen instance .. ill get nice ping times to it |
| 19:12 | thd | kados chris: Is Koha now being tied more closely to MySQL specifically? |
| 19:12 | kados | thd: yep, with db constraints we're probably tied to mysql 4.1 |
| 19:13 | thd: not sure if postgres supports the same constraints as mysql 4.1 | |
| 19:13 | or oracle ... | |
| 19:13 | or SQL Server :-) | |
| 19:14 | though I couldn't say for sure | |
| 19:14 | hi j0se | |
| 19:14 | j0se: welcome to #koha | |
| 19:16 | thd | kados: Why are the constraints strictly necessary? |
| 19:16 | j0se | hi kados, thanks, hope eveyone is alright |
| 19:16 | kados | thd: bbiab |
| 19:17 | j0se: yep, all doing well here ... busy as usual, but a good busy :-) | |
| 19:45 | thd: so ... constraints | |
| 19:45 | the main advantage to db constraints is they don't limit the security of the db to the mercy of the perl scripts | |
| 19:46 | in other words, we get to define some features of the business logic of the ILS in the db itself | |
| 19:46 | so the scripts can't do anything funny that we didn't realize they were doing | |
| 19:48 | owen | Something MySQL apologists used to say should be handled by the scripts anyway, you sloppy programmers! ;) |
| 19:48 | kados | hehe |
| 19:48 | thd | kados: :) |
| 19:49 | kados: certainly those things could still be handled in Perl based constraints. | |
| 19:49 | kados | thd: most major ILSes boast about their constraints ... and I"ve had clients ask whether Koha had them |
| 19:49 | thd: so I'm very happy now that we do :-) | |
| 19:50 | in fact, it was one of the major points that INEO made when they visited Athens | |
| 19:50 | of course, it's debatable how necessary they are, but having them will be a great selling point | |
| 19:50 | thd | kados: Postgres and Oracle had always had constraints the question is are they compatible. |
| 19:51 | kados | and I think I was wrong before when I said that we were tied to mysql |
| 19:51 | what I meant was that mysql users will be tied to version 4.1 | |
| 19:51 | I'd be very surprised if the Mysql constraints paul has done aren't compatible with posgres, oracle and SQL Server | |
| 19:52 | and I doubt it'd be hard to fix any incompatibilities were they to be | |
| 19:52 | thd | kados: many important customers will never trust MySQL however many constraints you add within MySQL. |
| 19:52 | kados | (and anyone running postgres or oracle is likely to know how to do this) |
| 19:52 | well, good news is that when we switch to innodb we can claim we're running an Oracle db :-) | |
| 19:53 | since Oracle now owns innodb :-) | |
| 19:53 | I'm really looking forward to writing the marketing materials for Koha 3.0 :-) | |
| 19:54 | thd | kados: I have been trying to figure out the new Debian multi-version PostresSQL model which broke my Postgres in etch. |
| 20:13 | kados:: would it not make more sense to plan the DB dependent things to be compatible Postgres? | |
| 20:13 | kados | thd: do you know of any Koha users running postgres? |
| 20:14 | thd | kados: no but even 2.X would break some things. |
| 20:15 | kados | my point is, dont' expect us to test compatibility with postgres when noone's using it :-) |
| 20:15 | thd | or some things would be broken in Postgres for the current version. |
| 20:15 | kados | if someone wants to use postgres, they can test and fix compatibility probs |
| 20:15 | this is open source :-) | |
| 20:16 | thd | kados: I would be happy to try my local mail system was running in Postgres :) |
| 20:17 | kados: I know there are some MySQL dependent instructions. What did your Oracle customer do about those in 2.X? | |
| 20:19 | kados | there is a library somewhere using Koha on oracle |
| 20:19 | I don't remember who | |
| 20:19 | thd | kados: Katipo's customer? |
| 20:20 | russ | nope not us |
| 20:25 | thd | kados: I had proposed a multi-DB design to test against some DB flavour parameter and then run the correct code for the particularities of whatever flavour was installed in cases of unavoidable syntax incompatibility. |
| 20:26 | kados: chris and paul had been very pleased with the idea at the time. | |
| 20:26 | kados | thd: did you write the proposal to koha-devel? |
| 20:27 | chris | im happy with that idea .. just dont expect me to write the code :-) |
| 20:28 | thd | kados: No but I assumed that everyone thought it better to not tie things to a particular DB and that would have made it into the Koha programming guidelines on koha.docs.org by now. |
| 20:28 | chris | there are tradeoffs |
| 20:29 | if i have to do something that is fully ansi compliant, but slower, ill do it the faster way, for time critical things like circulation | |
| 20:29 | thd | chris: do you have a customer now using normal acquisitions with 2.X? |
| 20:29 | chris | but that doesnt stop someone else adding the code to do it another way |
| 20:29 | yes | |
| 20:30 | kados | chris++ |
| 20:30 | thd | chris: Is that code fully committed to CVS now and working in 2.5? |
| 20:30 | chris | no |
| 20:31 | because its totally nz dependent | |
| 20:31 | as part of my work on 3.0 ill generalise it and commit it | |
| 20:31 | thd | chris: why or in what way is it NZ dependent? |
| 20:32 | russ | there is a bunch of stuff |
| 20:32 | chris | why because time was short and we needed fix all the stuff that got broken going from 1.2 to 2.0 as fast as possible |
| 20:33 | it converts currency to nz dollars for a start, which isnt much use if you arent in nz | |
| 20:33 | if there were 38 hours in a day, id have fixed that, and committed it | |
| 20:34 | thd | chris russ kados: excessive haste makes for ungeneralised, read it may work but you cannot fix it or improve it, coding :) |
| 20:35 | chris | yep, in an ideal world clients wouldnt want there fixes now, but would have time to allow us to do generalised fixes |
| 20:35 | unfortunately its not the reality at all, so we do the best we can, and try to fix it when we get a chance | |
| 20:36 | thd | chris: there are 38 hours in some of my days but I then have to sleep for two days straight to recover or be useless the rest of the week. |
| 20:36 | chris | :) |
| 20:37 | russ | thd: we have to do the best we can given our client constraints |
| 20:38 | thd | chris: I have been useless for most of the past month and a half over contesting a fine arising out of using the wrong type of ticket for $1.25 subway fare in Newark, New Jersey. |
| 20:40 | chris: I could have paid a $75 fine by mail but it would have meant pleading guilty to an offence that I was not guilty of so instead of a day in court I got a week in gaol for contempt and all my time lost to chasing lawyers down in case they had prosecuted me for contempt. | |
| 20:41 | chris: stay out of court in high crime areas and you will have much more time to work on Koha. | |
| 20:43 | chris: If you are in court for any reason never make even a truthful comment about the judge that might get back to him. | |
| 20:43 | chris | both good points |
| 20:45 | thd | chris: I learnt the most painful way possible. It would have never happened in any real court though and never in New York where I live and know the all the public transport fare schemes. |
| 20:52 | chris kados: Most of the SQL code I have written has been for Postgres including the part that causes problems in Postgres 8.X. I am certainly willing to try to make a proposal on Koha -devel about at least having placeholder code for 3.0 so the routine can fit and just maybe we might try to avoid something that simply could not be replicated properly in Postgres or Oracle. | |
| 20:56 | chris kados: Do you have any immediate thoughts about problems of adding placeholder code to allow for DB flavoured routines. It could default to MySQL if no DB flavour parameter.is set. | |
| 20:56 | kados | I don't |
| 20:57 | isn't that what dbi is for? | |
| 21:00 | thd | kados: Yes except if you are building structures hat are MySQL specific or calling with MySQL syntax then there are problems that could be avoided while the code is being written by even merely providing a place for alternate code. |
| 21:01 | kados: DBI is also often if not necessarily set to use the flavour it has been set to call. | |
| 21:03 | kados | thd: if I may be so bold, I think your time is better spent handling problems we're facing right now, than problems we might face if someone were to want to use postgres |
| 21:03 | thd: :-) | |
| 21:04 | thd | kados: A significant issue that would certainly cause problems for Postgres 8.X as opposed to earlier versions is the use schemas. The schemas need to be referenced properly otherwise no SQL code will work in Postgres 8.X. |
| 21:06 | kados: Agreed, my proposal is merely about writing the place-holding structure for alternate code into the routines now while the code is being written rather than doing twice as much work to add it later. | |
| 21:07 | kados chris: does that make sense? | |
| 21:07 | kados | thd: it won't hurt to write a message to koha-devel |
| 21:08 | thd: if writing the place-holding structure is trivial maybe chris or paul will allow for it while they're in there | |
| 21:08 | thd: but don't be too dissapointed if it doesn't get done :-) | |
| 21:09 | thd | kados: Exactly, I will write a proposal on koha-devel late tonight. |
| 21:10 | kados: I am sometimes disappointed but never discouraged :) | |
| 21:11 | kados | :-) |
| 22:39 | hey rach | |
| 22:39 | how's the little guy? | |
| 22:39 | (what's his name?) | |
| 22:50 | rach | benjamin ockleston blake |
| 22:51 | ben - and he is sleeping in his pram at the moment, putting on weight well, generally growing and seems pretty happy | |
| 22:52 | kados | nice |
| 22:52 | rach | there are some new pics - http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album162 |
| 22:52 | http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album162/img_0268 | |
| 22:52 | is pretty cute | |
| 22:52 | kados | heh |
| 22:53 | damn cute :-) | |
| 22:55 | rach | we got lucky, he is generally thought to be a good looking baby :-) |
| 22:58 | kados | heh |
| 23:00 | wow ... si ... you shaved your head! | |
| 23:05 | rach | welli t is the internet I guess :-) |
| 23:05 | yep si shaved his head a while back now, no more pony tail for him | |
| 02:56 | kados | pre-pre launch announcement for Labs.LibLime.Com: |
| 02:56 | http://labs.liblime.com/ | |
| 02:56 | have a look, one and all :-) | |
| 03:10 | thd-away | kados: are you in bed yet? |
| 03:12 | thd | chris: are you still there? |
| 03:14 | kados | thd: not quite yet |
| 03:15 | thd | kados: opencatalog did not work for me should it have? |
| 03:16 | kados | sorry that links not valid just yet |
| 03:16 | and the teamipg codes not working yet | |
| 03:17 | pre-pre release :-) | |
| 03:17 | thd | kados: I even had an error for team 42 |
| 03:17 | kados | really>? for team42? |
| 03:17 | thd | kados: yes XML error |
| 03:18 | kados | for what search? |
| 03:18 | thd | kados: yes |
| 03:19 | kados: is there a needed syntax? | |
| 03:19 | kados: I tried objective knowledge as a title search | |
| 03:20 | kados | ahh ... maybe the keyword searching is broken |
| 03:20 | thd | kados: that is book by Karl Popper |
| 03:20 | kados | I'll have a look in the morning |
| 03:20 | thd | kados: Is there a good title to search or what is the search running against? |
| 03:20 | kados | g'nite Koha :-) |
| 03:21 | thd | good night Kados |
| 03:24 | chris: are you still awake? | |
| 04:59 | osmoze | bonjour |
| 05:37 | thd | good morning osmoze |
| 05:38 | paul | hello everybody |
| 05:38 | thd | good morning paul |
| 05:48 | happy hunting paul | |
| 08:27 | paul | hello hdl |
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