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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 16:13 | rach | morning |
| 18:40 | morning | |
| 22:47 | indradg | rach, welcome back |
| 22:48 | rach | cheer |
| 22:48 | s | |
| 00:19 | rachel | :-) |
| 01:20 | hdl | hi |
| 02:54 | paul | coucou hdl |
| 03:11 | rach | bonjour paul |
| 03:12 | paul | hi rach. |
| 03:12 | not in bed yet ? | |
| 03:12 | rach | nope few hours to go yet |
| 03:12 | paul | (koha-fr is down and the provider is quiet since friday :-( ) |
| 03:12 | rach | we got our car broken into so i'm busy cancelling my visa etc, befrore heading to the police station |
| 03:12 | might be a long nite | |
| 03:13 | paul | bad news for you. |
| 03:13 | good luck. | |
| 03:14 | rach | thanks |
| 08:11 | kados | paul: welcome home ;-) |
| 08:11 | paul | hi joshua |
| 08:12 | (writing on the wiki for a "Koha for big libraries" DB modifs now) | |
| 08:12 | great ! | |
| 08:12 | kados | have you had a chance to think about a Koha consortium module? |
| 08:12 | cool | |
| 08:12 | paul | consortium module ? |
| 08:13 | (are you changes to HEAD in default templates ?) | |
| 08:13 | kados | for groups of libraries that want to share Koha but aren't in a system |
| 08:13 | paul | ok, I remember |
| 08:13 | no, I didn't yet. | |
| 08:13 | kados | paul: probably I can do changes in npl and default templates |
| 08:13 | I have had contact from three other 'consoftia' that are interested in Koha | |
| 08:13 | paul | that would be great (at least for default) |
| 08:14 | i'll try to give this some thoughts. | |
| 08:14 | kados | cool |
| 08:14 | paul | ask me again on next monday if i'm silent |
| 08:14 | kados | how was your trip home? |
| 08:14 | (are you over the jet lag? ;-)) | |
| 08:15 | paul | a good news (for hdl too...) : 2 new contracts confirmed : IPT (15 000 biblios, migration from another ILS) and Saint Germain sur Morin (new install) |
| 08:15 | my trip was not really nice... | |
| 08:15 | i could'nt be on aisle as in paris => detroit, so I could not really sleep | |
| 08:16 | 2nd, the girl in Columbus airport told me to get my luggage in Paris before taking the plane for marseille, for customs. | |
| 08:17 | except that in France, you have to stop to customs if you have something to declare. Otherwise, you just pass through. So the luggages pass also. | |
| 08:17 | I've waited 1hour for a luggage that was already in Marseille. | |
| 08:17 | so I missed the aircraft & had to wait 2 more hours for the next one. | |
| 08:17 | (and finally get my luggage in Marseille without trouble) | |
| 08:21 | kados | sounds like a real drag |
| 08:23 | paul: do you know if UNIMARC stores record copyright dates as c2004 instead of 2004? | |
| 08:24 | this seem to be the 'right' way to do it in MARC21 and it breaks searches | |
| 08:44 | paul | kados : iirc, copyright in UNIMARC can be writte with a letter or without. |
| 08:44 | (altough i haven't seen c2004 for instance) | |
| 08:44 | and you're right, i probably breaks searches... | |
| 08:45 | kados | i had an idea about marc_words btw |
| 08:45 | we have marc_words table but slightly different than your idea | |
| 08:45 | instead of an array of CSV itemnumbers we have a 'word id' | |
| 08:46 | and another table with: | |
| 08:46 | wordid, itemnumber, titlesort, authorsort, allsearchrestltsdata | |
| 08:46 | so for searches we only need to do two queries: | |
| 08:47 | one to get the 'wordid' | |
| 08:47 | and one to grab EVERYTHING else for display | |
| 08:47 | what do you think? | |
| 08:50 | paul | explain your idea here : |
| 08:50 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]=KohaRoadmap2.2.x | |
| 08:54 | kados | ok |
| 09:13 | paul: ok ... I explained it there ... but perhaps not well ... let me know what you think (or if you don't understand it) | |
| 09:18 | paul | joshua : i don't understand where you gain perfs with your idea. I probably don't understand it well. |
| 09:18 | (kados i mean. to beep you ;-) ) | |
| 09:41 | kados | ok |
| 09:41 | I probably didn't explain it well | |
| 09:42 | so right no we do many queries to populate the various opac variable for search results display | |
| 09:42 | for title | |
| 09:42 | subtitle | |
| 09:42 | branch status | |
| 09:42 | etc. | |
| 09:42 | probably about 12 - 14 queries for each item displayed | |
| 09:42 | with my idea we only have two queries 'total' | |
| 09:43 | one grabs the 'wordid' | |
| 09:43 | and one grabs all the rest of the information from a seperate table indexed by 'wordid' | |
| 09:45 | so this second table has columns: 'wordid' 'bibid' 'title' 'subtitle' 'itemtype' 'copyrightdate' 'other item info' 'call number, etc' 'copies' 'availability' | |
| 09:45 | it could also have 'sortby' columns | |
| 09:45 | though this may be redundent ... | |
| 09:46 | maybe we have 'title' and 'titledisplay' where 'title' is title ~= s/the, a, an, etc.//; | |
| 09:47 | and 'titledisplay' is the one we display on the search results page | |
| 09:47 | paul: does this make more sense? (I hope) | |
| 09:48 | paul | yes but no. |
| 09:48 | you solve the problem of showing results, but not the problem of selecting what are results | |
| 09:49 | kados | well ... let me explain that better |
| 09:49 | paul | thus, your suggestion may be useful for the 2nd part of a search. |
| 09:49 | kados | so we do an initial query: |
| 09:49 | select 'wordid' from marc-words where word = 'somthing%' | |
| 09:49 | this is really fast ... only one row | |
| 09:49 | or maybe two or three max | |
| 09:50 | (we should pull out tagsubfield too) | |
| 09:50 | then ... | |
| 09:50 | select 'all the display stuff' from marc_words_index where wordid = 'wordid'; | |
| 09:51 | maybe if we designed it well enough we could even do everything in a single query using join | |
| 09:51 | paul: does that make more sense? | |
| 09:51 | paul | yes but no. |
| 09:52 | kados | :-) |
| 09:52 | paul | how do you manage a search on 2 words. |
| 09:52 | kados | so ... |
| 09:52 | paul | the 1st being used 10 000 times, the 2nd 15 000 |
| 09:52 | kados | right |
| 09:52 | paul | (with 10 results for both) |
| 09:52 | kados | you merge where they match if it's an AND search |
| 09:55 | select 'wordid', 'tagsubfield' from marc_words where word='something1%' and word='something2%' | |
| 09:55 | this would only pull out the results from both right? | |
| 09:55 | and we still only have two queries | |
| 09:56 | (sorting could be done here too) | |
| 09:56 | paul | (on phone) |
| 09:56 | kados | k |
| 10:02 | paul | hi owen |
| 10:02 | owen | Hi paul. |
| 10:02 | Have you gotten caught up after your trip? | |
| 10:05 | kados | hey owen |
| 10:05 | paul | kados i'm back. |
| 10:05 | kados | cool |
| 10:05 | what video chat program do you use? | |
| 10:05 | paul | your request would not work, because word can't be something1 AND something2 |
| 10:06 | gnomemeeting | |
| 10:06 | kados | ok |
| 10:06 | ahh you're right ... | |
| 10:06 | paul | with your structure you need to do what we already do : a join on marc_words as m1 and marc_words as m2 |
| 10:07 | kados | yep |
| 10:07 | hmmm... | |
| 10:07 | paul | that requires reading of both 10 000 and 15 000 lines |
| 10:09 | kados | paul can you chat on AIM? |
| 10:09 | paul | what tool should I use on my mandrake ? |
| 10:09 | kados | not sure ... I"m on OSX today ;-) |
| 10:09 | paul | kopete should be the tool. |
| 10:09 | kados | maybe gaim? |
| 10:10 | my aim screen name is joshferraromac.com |
|
| 10:11 | I'm in a coffee house so there is some ambiant noise ... but I'd like to try this out ;-) | |
| 10:13 | if enough of us get webcams we could have Koha video conferences ;-) | |
| 10:13 | that would be swell ;-) | |
| 10:17 | paul | mmm... how to create an accound on aim ? |
| 10:18 | kados | not sure ... maybe aim.com? |
| 10:20 | paul: here's the registration page: | |
| 10:20 | https://my.screenname.aol.com/[…]2ZIsTVJYAAA%3D%3D | |
| 10:20 | or something like that ;-) | |
| 10:21 | owen | Nice that they keep it simple. |
| 10:25 | paul | mmm... can't find how to speak with microphone on gaim. |
| 10:25 | (& no time to dig more) | |
| 10:25 | kados | np ;-) |
| 10:25 | maybe tomorrow | |
| 10:25 | paul | (maybe we will delay a few days until you have gnome meeting) |
| 10:26 | kados | ok |
| 10:30 | shaun | hi |
| 10:30 | kados | hi there shaun |
| 10:30 | owen | Hi shaun |
| 10:31 | shaun | I have done some fixes in circulation - url and un/pw combination are still http://koha.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/ and kohaadmin/hexthouse |
| 10:32 | It appears that the branch and printer were broken in returns - I have fixed this. | |
| 10:32 | are Paul or Rach on at the moment? | |
| 10:32 | paul | I am here |
| 10:32 | owen | What do you mean about branch and printer being broken? |
| 10:32 | paul | (on phone, but here) |
| 10:33 | shaun | hang on a moment, I'm digging out the log... |
| 10:36 | <b>Branch:</b> <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="branchname" -->, | |
| 10:36 | <b>Printer:</b> <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="printername" --> | |
| 10:36 | were supposed to read: | |
| 10:36 | <b>Branch:</b> <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="genbrname" -->, | |
| 10:36 | <b>Printer:</b> <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="genprname" --> | |
| 10:36 | ...thus, in the released version of 2.2.2, the branch and printer were not displayed on returns | |
| 10:41 | owen | You're right, it isn't showing up is it? (We don't show that in our template, so I never noticed it) |
| 10:44 | Of course selectbranchprinter.pl still has the wrong permissions... >:( | |
| 10:47 | shaun | Also: I have moved the branch and printer items into a .bloc25, underneath all the other content, set up the focusOnFirst() script on all of the circulation pages, and made some <h2>s into <h3>s, as well as moving it all to xhtml 1.0 strict... |
| 10:47 | Is that my fault, or Koha behaviour? | |
| 10:48 | owen | The wrong permissions? There's a bug in the install (?) that sets the wrong permissions for that script. |
| 10:48 | rach won't be in for another 3 or 4 hours | |
| 10:49 | ...by the way | |
| 10:50 | Have you gotten any biblio data into your database yet? | |
| 10:51 | shaun | ok (evening starts at 4 for me ;) ) |
| 10:51 | no - i have just come across some sample data (importing now, hopefully) | |
| 10:52 | owen | It'd be nice if you could sort IRC users by time zone :) |
| 10:52 | shaun | yes... |
| 10:53 | umm... how do I import this data into mysql on the command line? (sampledata-1.2.gz) | |
| 10:54 | kados | actually that data isn't really going to work |
| 10:54 | it's for Koha version 1.2 | |
| 10:55 | shaun | ah... is there any other data I can get hold of? |
| 10:56 | kados | maybe ... give me a sec |
| 10:56 | shaun | thanks |
| 10:56 | kados | ok ... here's some sample borrowers data: |
| 10:57 | http://liblime.com/borrowers | |
| 10:57 | shaun | we're alright for borrower data - it's book data that I can't get hold of |
| 10:57 | kados | k... just a sec |
| 10:58 | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]ha/export/marc.pl | |
| 10:58 | start with biblio 3000 | |
| 10:58 | end with biblio 4000 | |
| 10:58 | it'll come out as 'marc.pl' | |
| 10:59 | shaun | 0 bytes... |
| 10:59 | kados | you can import it with bulkmarcimport in misc/migration_tools |
| 10:59 | ok ... try just exporting everything ;-) | |
| 10:59 | leave both field blank | |
| 11:00 | shaun | thats better (big, big file...) |
| 11:00 | 2.1 mb - importing now... | |
| 11:00 | kados | right |
| 11:01 | so it actually does export items contrary to the message ;-) | |
| 11:04 | shaun | "you can import it with bulkmarcimport in misc/migration_tools" -- how? |
| 11:04 | owen | shaun, have you seen this site before? http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ |
| 11:04 | It tells me that the koha logo is probably some variant of Linotype Centennial | |
| 11:05 | (not one I have) | |
| 11:05 | shaun | thanks - *finds font* |
| 11:10 | paul | shaun, just a question : did you explain your interest to Koha somewhere ? Not to judge if we should help you, just to know ;-) |
| 11:10 | shaun | Well, I think Ben sent an email to Owen about it |
| 11:11 | paul | & owen kept it for himslef ;-) |
| 11:12 | owen | Ben sent an email to the Koha-Devel list "New Interface & Other Work" on Tuesday April 12 |
| 11:12 | And I responded on list. | |
| 11:13 | shaun | I am the founder of a Linux distro that will be used in primary and secondary schools in the UK - based on RHEL, with lots of things that schools find useful, e.g. vnc based remote control, pre-designed intranet and remote management, and I am including lots of OSS that RHEL does not come with, e.g. DansGuardian for filtering - the obvious choice for the library system was Koha, but we thought the interface had a lot of room for improvement, and |
| 11:13 | so I am here now ;) | |
| 11:13 | paul | ok, I hadn't read this mail yet. |
| 11:13 | owen | shaun, sounds like you might want to approach the koha interface from the point of view specifically of the school library |
| 11:14 | Maybe there are ways to tailor your templates to that user? | |
| 11:15 | paul | ok, shaun, you can do whatever you want on HEAD branch of CVS. We will se later if your temlpates have to become the default one. |
| 11:15 | send bugfixes on HEAD too, with an explicite title for your CVS commit. | |
| 11:15 | i'll take care of them for 2.2 where applicable | |
| 11:15 | shaun | yes - as well as contributing the templates we make, I will be editing them to make it more friendly for school libraries (I am also unsure about how to achieve it, but I have been talking with the head librarian a lot about it) |
| 11:15 | paul | (as 2.2 Release Maintainer) |
| 11:16 | kados | shaun: keep me posted on your ideas |
| 11:16 | I'd like to know what the special needs of a school library are | |
| 11:17 | shaun | Would it be better for our templates to be implemented as default from 2.3/2.4 (not sure if you use the even=stable, odd=unstable) - to maintain continuity and backward-compatibility if nothing else, even though the changes have nothing to do with the back end in mysql/perl |
| 11:18 | *looses question mark: ? | |
| 11:18 | paul | (about odd/even : you're right) |
| 11:18 | owen | don't worry about what's going to be default and what won't...just get them done and we'll have a discussion together with the rest of the developers |
| 11:18 | shaun | ok |
| 11:18 | paul | anyway, you're right. |
| 11:19 | and i'm wondering if we should not have 2 different templates schemes : one for public libraries | |
| 11:19 | and one for academic ones. | |
| 11:19 | shaun | I have seen some things where a theme is chosen by a symlink to the theme's codename - e.g. |
| 11:19 | paul | my customers have very differents needs usually depending on public/academic. |
| 11:20 | shaun | /usr/local/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/default is actually a symlink to, say /usr/local/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/npl or .../koha, (if koha will be the name of the default template when it is adopted), or .../school |
| 11:21 | paul | mmm... didn't you saw Koha >> parameters >> systempreferences >> opactheme |
| 11:21 | shaun | ...makes for easy configuration at install time, but the librarian cannot change the theme from windows/ie - our librarian wouldn't take well to telnet ;) |
| 11:22 | I was talking about the intranet, not opac | |
| 11:23 | paul | 'template' systempref is your friend then ;-) |
| 11:24 | shaun | oops - didn't see that... |
| 11:25 | Ben | hihi |
| 11:26 | kados | hi Ben |
| 11:26 | shaun | where are the templates registered (eg `mkdir test` in /intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl does not update the list of themes - it is still default and npl) |
| 11:26 | hi ben | |
| 11:26 | owen | kados, I'm sure there are things a school library needs that a public one doesn't, and vice-versa |
| 11:27 | I'm sure borrower management is much different if you're dealing with school years and limited year-spans | |
| 11:27 | shaun | (ben and I were thinking about opening times - somebody must not be fined when the library is not open, i.e. on weekends) |
| 11:27 | Ben | owen, I concur - ODFE will require something which shows form/year |
| 11:27 | kados | yea ... we've thought about that too |
| 11:27 | owen | Right...that's consistent with all libraries, but school libraries will have to deal with more closings, so it's more important |
| 11:27 | paul | shaun : the good news : opening times is already developped |
| 11:27 | owen | Ben, exactly. |
| 11:28 | ...and the bad news... | |
| 11:28 | Ben | ODFE being Our Dear Friend Eunice |
| 11:28 | paul | the bad news : we can't get the code from the guy who wrote it (in Argentina) |
| 11:28 | kados | :-) |
| 11:28 | Ben | yes, but the argentinians won't give it to us |
| 11:28 | owen | :( |
| 11:28 | paul | why ben ? |
| 11:28 | kados | paul: do you have emiliano's email address? I'll write him an e-mail requesting it |
| 11:28 | Ben | I don't know; you were the one who told me |
| 11:28 | paul | shaun : you must also create a /en directory in you mkdir. |
| 11:29 | owen | I think I mentioned it on Saturday, Ben |
| 11:29 | Ben | whoever |
| 11:29 | :) | |
| 11:29 | shaun | take a look at our implementation - we used the year the student joined the school - e.g. 01 for me, which is called "Year 10" |
| 11:29 | paul | Ben/ shaun : emiliano, from Argentina sended me a word file with what they did |
| 11:29 | drop your mail address here if you want it. | |
| 11:30 | shaun | shaunshaunevans.co.uk - thanks |
| 11:30 | Ben | paul, genial! goodgerstergmail.com |
| 11:30 | owen | The borrowers table will have to be expanded to include more school-related data |
| 11:30 | paul | those features are already in Argentina |
| 11:30 | (owen, do you want the paper too ?) | |
| 11:30 | (or do you already have it ?) | |
| 11:31 | owen | Please send it again. I'm not sure. |
| 11:31 | Thanks | |
| 11:31 | Ben | unfortunately, perl is not my best subject, but I do know what works visually/ergonomically |
| 11:31 | etc | |
| 11:31 | shaun | http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/a[…]633/win-t1/91068/ - definitely, type in koha |
| 11:31 | paul | (540kb mail sent) |
| 11:32 | Ben | shaun, the K is mismatched |
| 11:32 | shaun | *router flashes wildly* - i love running my own mail server |
| 11:32 | kados | hehe |
| 11:32 | shaun | ben: how? |
| 11:32 | see http://www.koha.org/images/home-logo.gif | |
| 11:33 | Ben | shaun, we are suffering from 5 years worth of development.. |
| 11:33 | shaun | ??? |
| 11:33 | Ben | the logo in the background image of the intranet homepage of version 1 is in bodomi mt, honest.. |
| 11:33 | paul | kados : about emiliano. |
| 11:33 | the last mail I recieved (march, 12) said : | |
| 11:33 | my question : Could you please tell us what are your plans at the moment ? do you still expect to be able to commit your modifs toofficial CVS ? do you have a date ? | |
| 11:34 | The answer : | |
| 11:34 | No, unfortunately, no. At 20th April week we have an official presentation at National Ministry Of Education for national universities libraries. After that meeting and upon librarians oppinion, perhaps they will request to every university funding for implement and adopt the software into their libraries. In this meeting I will insist over the importance in contributing to the original development project, as the way for ensuring the maintanance | |
| 11:34 | and growing of the software. In every case our development team will exist for more 6 months (I hope) and one boy will be dedicated to local Koha's requirements for the Physic Library at UNLP (In background perhaps he could contribute) and the other will be dedicated to digital resources discoveries and making some kind of meta searching for Physics resources. This is the second instance of this project. | |
| 11:34 | so, maybe it's worth 2-3 days delaying bugging him ;-) | |
| 11:34 | Ben | :) |
| 11:34 | kados | right |
| 11:34 | owen | Good point paul |
| 11:35 | paul | thanks. |
| 11:39 | Being impertinent is not a problem. If you don't forget that WE are Koha, and YOU are the newbie (so you don't know our 5 years history) ;-) | |
| 11:39 | Ben | you do all realise that the argentinians are cutting it very thin with the GPL |
| 11:39 | ? | |
| 11:39 | paul | Not at all. |
| 11:39 | kados | mmm ... not really |
| 11:39 | shaun | they don't have to release it under GPL |
| 11:39 | paul | GPL says : you must give your customer the code & freedom to redistribute it. |
| 11:39 | but ... | |
| 11:40 | they have NO customers ! | |
| 11:40 | it's only for their internal use ! | |
| 11:40 | kados | right |
| 11:40 | Ben | fine |
| 11:40 | paul | the GPL don't say "give back your code". Even if it's highly most efficient for everybody ! |
| 11:40 | shaun | also - if this is a module, the module is not subject to the terms of the GPL unless it includes code from Koha, or another GPL project |
| 11:40 | Ben | yes, fine; no need to rub it in |
| 11:41 | brb, dinner | |
| 11:41 | owen | Ben, they're not rubbing it in, they're /explaining/ |
| 11:41 | It's how we all learn. | |
| 11:41 | shaun | (sorry ben, but the way you think my plan to build a linux distro based on the RHEL source was piracy was most entertaining to me) |
| 11:42 | paul | (Ben : don't forget i'm not native english. Sometimes my words have not the same meaning in french & in english. And don't forget i sometimes don't understand english perfectly too) |
| 11:43 | (for example : not sure to understand "rubbing", even if I think) | |
| 11:45 | shaun | document: ooh, nice - where have the screenshots been taken from, and is this in English yet? |
| 11:45 | kados | paul: 'rubbing it in' is an idiom ... when I hear it it reminds me of a school yard fights where the bully 'rubs' something into the bullied's face ;-) |
| 11:46 | owen | shaun, that's one of the problems--none of it is in english |
| 11:46 | Not even the script and template variables | |
| 11:46 | paul | in fact, that's the main problem !!! |
| 11:46 | shaun | what language is it in? |
| 11:46 | kados | spanish I think |
| 11:46 | paul | otherwise, they could contribute the code easily |
| 11:47 | right kados. es_AR (argentina english) | |
| 11:47 | & it's hardcoded it seems (i mean : not a translation from english) | |
| 11:47 | kados | es is espanole right? |
| 11:47 | shaun | *fails to see logic* |
| 11:47 | paul | yep |
| 11:48 | shaun : maybe someone not knowing enough how to be efficient with OSS | |
| 11:48 | maybe a developper that is not fluent enough in english | |
| 11:48 | (or think he is not) | |
| 11:48 | the question is just : how to solve the problem & get the code now ! | |
| 11:50 | shaun | do you think they will gpl it? |
| 11:50 | paul | that's not a problem of gpl'ing it. |
| 11:50 | that's a problem of integrating it properly in official CVS. | |
| 11:50 | if we request a tar.gz from their code, they'll send it for sure. | |
| 11:50 | but it would be unuseable ! | |
| 11:51 | shaun | because it's in spanish (argentina)? |
| 11:51 | paul | not only |
| 11:51 | because we would not know all what they did | |
| 11:52 | & reverse engineering would be a pain | |
| 11:52 | shaun | oh right, I understand now |
| 11:52 | paul | (unless YOU volunteer :-D :-D ) |
| 11:52 | shaun | oh, no... |
| 11:52 | paul | ;-) |
| 11:52 | owen | We're sorely lacking in spanish-speaking programmers |
| 11:53 | paul | owen : Ineo has one they said some weeks later |
| 11:53 | shaun | I really have to learn perl properly - I am a php person really | I know a little spanish, and I know somebody (non-programmer) who knows a lot more |
| 11:53 | owen | I would really take a spanish- and Perl-speaking expert to do reverse engineering |
| 11:54 | paul | shaun : good learning. I was in your situation 3 years ago (good PHP poor perl) |
| 11:54 | owen : & a guy that know what is an ILS & librarian daily work ! | |
| 11:54 | shaun | lol - "I speak English, Spanish, PHP and Perl" |
| 11:54 | paul | lol |
| 11:54 | don't forget : and MARC21 (or UNIMARC) | |
| 11:55 | shaun | ...brighter than the average bear, then... |
| 11:57 | gtg now - will rach be back by 8:00 GMT? |
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