IRC log for #koha, 2023-12-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:22 schnydszch joined #koha
06:36 reiveune joined #koha
06:39 reiveune hello
07:37 fridolin joined #koha
08:01 thibaud_g joined #koha
08:03 lds joined #koha
08:11 fridolin left #koha
08:22 cait joined #koha
08:53 Joubu everybody using the ktd bin are seeing "Error response from daemon: No such container: koha_koha_1" and no complains?
09:01 cait see where?
09:02 Joubu git commit
09:02 from the pre-commit hoo
09:02 hook
09:02 cait hm I didn't notice that
09:03 Joubu make change to mainpage.pl, commit
09:03 you should see it
09:03 if not it means the hook is not correctly setup
09:03 that would be worse
09:05 didg joined #koha
09:10 thibaud_glt joined #koha
09:13 krimsonkharne[m] morning all
09:16 thibaud_g joined #koha
10:18 * cait waves
10:18 cait Joubu: hm i thought it was working now, because it created a change to the contributors file
10:18 maybe something we could look into
10:19 Joubu it will try to connect to the container only if pl or pm is modified
10:19 cait hm i pushed a ton of template and js changes
10:19 maybe that's why I didn't notice
11:35 tcohen joined #koha
12:08 tcohen joined #koha
12:08 tcohen hola #koha o/
12:10 marcelr joined #koha
12:10 marcelr o/
12:37 lds joined #koha
12:38 AndrewAuld[m] joined #koha
12:39 nugged ö/
12:52 cait hello
12:53 REMINDER: Meeting in a few minutes!
12:53 https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2023
12:54 aude_c[m] Do you accept observers? :D
12:57 cait of coure, everybody is welcome
12:58 although I don't think you are just an observer :)
12:58 Jitsi is open
13:01 #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 13 December 2023
13:01 huginn` Meeting started Wed Dec 13 13:01:40 2023 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:01 The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_13_december_2023'
13:01 cait #topic Introductions
13:01 nugged (supervising observer :) )
13:01 cait #chair aude_c[m]
13:01 huginn` Current chairs: aude_c[m] cait
13:02 cait #chair tcohen
13:02 huginn` Current chairs: aude_c[m] cait tcohen
13:02 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2023 Agenda
13:03 paulderscheid[m] #info Paul Derscheid, LMSCloud Gmbh, Stuttgart, Germany
13:03 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi
13:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
13:03 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart
13:03 aude_c[m] #info Aude Charillon, PTFS Europe, UK
13:03 nugged #info Andrii Nugged, National Library of Finland, Helsinki, FI
13:03 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy
13:03 EmmiTakkinen[m] #info Emmi Takkinen, Koha-Suomi Oy, Finland
13:03 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
13:03 aude_c[m] #topic Announcements
13:04 #info 145 participants at the German Koha user meeting last week
13:05 #topic Update from the Release manager (24.05)
13:06 #info Katrin is "here and pushing things!" Still learning :)
13:07 Annelisterman[m] #info Anneli Österman, Koha-Suomi Oy, Finland
13:07 aude_c[m] #info Issues with Jenkins: marcelr and others looking into it
13:07 #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
13:07 #info No one around!
13:07 #topic Updates from the QA Team
13:08 #info marcelr says there is a lot in the queue but work ongoing
13:08 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:09 aude_c[m] #topic Status of roadmap projects
13:09 #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ki/Road_map_24.05
13:10 thd joined #koha
13:12 aude_c[m] #info Katrin asked for each proposal to have one project lead, 2 supporters (can't the same as the project lead!), a useful description and a linked bug. Please review to make sure your proposal has everything :)
13:14 nugged "supporters" - from whom? ... and how gain such and can we still act for some days to fix that?
13:16 ashimema 15449 for the C4 -> Koha Omnibus bug
13:16 emlam joined #koha
13:17 ashimema nugged, basically it means go out there and promote your bug.. get some backing for it... i.e. prevent the drop and run scenario and people working on things on their own and getting upset when no movement then happens
13:17 nugged yeh, I put myself to ILL supporters then
13:18 though looking for some people to join Bug 20447 / Holding records / supporters ( Annelisterman[m] do we need that for KohaSuomi too? )
13:18 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
13:18 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=20447 new feature, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, Needs Signoff , Add support for MARC holdings records
13:18 nugged ashimema thanks
13:19 emlam #info Emily Lamancusa, MCPL
13:25 ashimema Bug 35092 - [OMNIBUS] Remaining background job/worker issues
13:25 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35092 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Remaining background job/worker issues
13:40 Annelisterman[m] nugged: We do not use holding records in public libraries but I will talk about the bug in our meetings to find out if there is anything we can do to support the work.
13:43 aude_c[m] #info All proposals reviewed; see the wiki page. If you proposed something, check if anything is missing.
13:43 #info You can still add proposals, update proposals or add yourself as a supporter for proposals until 31 December.
13:44 nugged Annelisterman[m] 👍
13:44 aude_c[m] #info There are a lot of proposals (too many?) Project leads involved in several proposals are encouraged to make a priority list for themselves
13:44 #topic KohaCon24 update
13:45 caroline: around?
13:45 Joubu https://sondagebiblio.org/index.php/828663
13:45 cait #link https://inlibro.com/en/kohacon2024/
13:45 paulderscheid[m] https://2024.kohacon.org/
13:46 cait #link https://2024.kohacon.org/ real website
13:47 aude_c[m] #info Sign up at the website to receive the latest news
13:47 Joubu 34478 - waiting for help
13:47 cait #topic Actions from previous meetings
13:48 aude_c[m] #info CSRF fixes: Joubu waiting for help on Bug 34478!
13:48 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=34478 is not accessible.
13:49 aude_c[m] #info perldoc.koha-community.org update needed: no move yet; moved to the roadmap
13:49 nugged Joubu: do we have "pagination for items" in that list?
13:50 * nugged went to search
13:50 aude_c[m] #info Move from Gitea to Forgejo: to be moved to the roadmap
13:50 cait aude_c++
13:52 slef joined #koha
13:54 aude_c[m] #info thd not keen on Discourse, would recommend HyperKitty instead. To be added to roadmap?
13:55 #info renaming master branch to main: done
13:55 #info Translation server migration: done
13:57 #topic General development discussion
13:58 #info Draft style guide: postponed to next meeting for lack of time
13:59 #info Propose new rules for future Release Maintainers : also postponed
14:00 #info Katrin asking for thoughts on Bug 35302
14:00 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35302 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Koha depends on mpm_itk which prevents HTTP/2
14:03 ashimema #info Jonathan is looking for further support for bug 33568 - lots of testing already happened, we need a final push to get it over the line
14:03 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=33568 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, In Discussion , Use the REST API to display items on the biblio detail view
14:04 aude_c[m] #info Discussion on how to be better informed of security bugs if not part of the security group
14:04 cait aude_c++
14:09 aude_c[m] #info Bug 33568 added to roadmap as well (time critical)
14:09 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=33568 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, In Discussion , Use the REST API to display items on the biblio detail view
14:10 cait #topic Set date of next meeting
14:10 #info Next meeting: 3 January 2024, 13 UTC
14:10 #endmeeting
14:10 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Dec 13 14:10:55 2023 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:10 Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-12-13-13.01.html
14:10 Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]3-12-13-13.01.txt
14:10 Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]13-13.01.log.html
14:12 Joubu turning off my grumpiness now :D
14:12 cait do that before teh meeting next time heh
14:12 nah, you made your point, it's good - we need to be on the same page
14:13 tcohen Joubu we should compile a list of outstanding issues, on the Wiki, so people don't feel overwhelmed about the bug size
14:13 I'm reading the bug now FYI, and I still feel we need that list in a more easy to track place
14:14 doesn't need to be you who does it, though
14:14 caroline sorry, I just came in :/
14:14 tcohen you're volunteered for rewriting Koha in Go already
14:14 caroline lol, expect downtimes and a lot of bugs
14:15 for some reason, not all meetings appear in my thunderbird calendar (but some do, so it's very weird)
14:21 lds_ joined #koha
14:22 thd paulderscheid[m]: Are you still here?
14:25 paulderscheid[m] Yes
14:28 thd paulderscheid[m]:  Will you consider upgrading to Mailman 3 and using Hyperkitty as forum software?
14:30 paulderscheid[m] Definitely
14:31 As there's already a bug, I'll document the evaluation there.
14:31 thd I know that the biggest attraction [for an experimenter] of starting with Discourse is that everyone would need to resubscribe.  There is no mechanism for taking the legacy with us.
14:32 Joubu we can
14:32 passwords are in plaintext...
14:33 paulderscheid[m] It would be awesome if you could add your findings to the bug thd. Then we always have it as a reference point.
14:34 thd Hyperkitty is definitely second class forum software at least in comparison to how it appears in comparison to Discourse.  However, Hyperkitty is fine and the mailing list component is not an afterthought.
14:36 I investigated Discourse fairly deeply several months ago when it was raised on the mailing list but I did not keep track of all the bug reports which I had examined closely.
14:38 paulderscheid[m] If you ever got around to collecting your thoughts on the bug, it would be very much appreciated.
14:42 Joubu cait: I run the meeting script
14:42 thd I can copy what I wrote about the issue to the Koha mailing list.
14:42 paulderscheid[m] That would be great.
14:46 thd Fixing DMARC support so that we have time to investigate fully is trivial.  It would take only a few minutes to change three lines for the general mailing list.  I have provided complete instructions to rachel.
14:49 marcelr Joubu: could you look at bug 35507 now ?
14:49 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35507 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Fix handling plugins in unit tests causing random failures on Jenkins
14:50 thd paulderscheid[m]:  Gmail seems likely to give a free pass to DMARC with only the DK
14:50 .. with only the DKIM signatures of the original author messages.
14:51 paulderscheid[m] Noted
14:56 thd The biggest thing which is missing for DMARC at Katipo is the DMARC line in DNS.  Toggling two Mailman configuration settings accessible via the web interface is a little easier.  For all I know, there is a web interface controlling the DNS settings for Katipo but rachel may not know how that is controlled.
15:03 Sysadmins at BibLibre seem to not have time to fix their broken DKIM from the mail server which is likely only a trivial configuration issue.  However, even with no DKIM signitures even from an original author Gmail has been giving messages a free pass simply for having SPF and DMARC in my testing when I turned off DKIM.
15:03 Joubu marcelr: KitchenSinkPlugin.kpz is not longer needed then
15:05 marcelr i restore this stiuff elsewhere
15:05 report opened
15:06 Joubu bug 35548
15:06 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35548 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chris, NEW , Move KitchenSink test on its own and control table creation
15:06 thd Joubu, I forgot to mention it at the meeting but we should turn on DMARC support for the other mailing lists aside from koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org before February.
15:08 Joubu ok, unless we are moving away from mailman before February
15:10 thd I assume that it will take time to investigate Discourse, Flarum, and Hyperkitty.
15:32 cait Joubu++ thx!
15:39 it's great to see us updating our infrastructure software - it's good for the project, even if a bit painful in the beginnings
15:41 aude_c++ # thanks so much for taking the minutes
15:48 tcohen joined #koha
15:49 tcohen Bye all, BBL
16:00 bag joined #koha
16:12 cait paulderscheid[m]: still around?
16:35 reiveune bye
16:35 reiveune left #koha
17:03 Dyrcona joined #koha
17:04 ashimema interesting
17:57 thd paulderscheid[m]: I was misled to believe that the basic functionality of date queries was absent from Discourse by some related bug report which may have been marked won't fix.  As I found the bug before finding the advanced search interface I falsely concluded that there was only the simple search box.  The bug must have been related to searching by time period between two dates or something otherwise relating to date queries.
18:05 paulderscheid[m]:  My strong objection to Discourse based on the mistaken absence of a basic fundamental feature is gone.  I only now have significant concerns about Discourse not being a community project and the likelihood that sufficient email support which some people need will be dropped in future for simple business reasons.
18:07 fridolin joined #koha
18:08 cait left #koha
18:13 ashimema Discourse is GNU General Public License Version 2.0
18:13 Open source
18:15 And whilst there's not the Koha community level of contributors.. there are till around 50
18:15 Sorry.. 100
18:15 thd Yes, but it is the product of a single company, not a widely distributed community.  Some features ( or perhaps some plugins with useful features) are not available for self-hosted instances.
18:19 One primary company controlling development and distribution despite many outside contributors is not as advantageous as a larger community which understandably usually takes longer if it is not prevented by some improper advantage such as contributor license agreements.
18:22 The thing I really found off-putting was some negative indication in some bugs marked won't fix which might have been worded in a more community friendly manner.
18:23 However, in general, I find that marking bugs won't fix is harsh when not accompanied by some apology for not knowing a good way to start or explaining a lack of funding for the work involved etc.
18:29 There is actually a remedy for time period after some date and before some other date but it is only via a plugin exposing the whole database to SQL queries which necessarily cannot be available to any but carefully vetted users.    However, if time period is where I found the bug report I was misled and missed the feature because advanced search was hidden in the hidden menu after invoking search.
18:33 I do not have enough practice revealing user interfaces hidden by a hierarchy skeuomorphic icons.
18:47 paulderscheid[m] Hi thd, your concerns regarding Discourse are taken into account. We'll make a pro/con list for all solutions. I'm not very fond of Flarum to be honest. They don't have an official docker image and I really don't want to maintain a php project on bare metal. So the current targets of evaluation are basically Hyperkitty and Discourse.
18:49 thd paulderscheid[m]:  My concerns about Discourse have greatly diminished since the basic feature I thought was missing with some problem for making it work was merely a mistake I made over some related bug report.
18:49 paulderscheid[m] Yes, I read back.
18:51 thd paulderscheid[m]: I tried to use Google to find the search by date bug marked won't fix and instead I found forum reports about where to find the feature :)
18:52 paulderscheid[m] Wonderful :)
18:53 thd paulderscheid[m]: Flarum, being perhaps a younger project has a worse FOSS vs proprietary balance for another key feature.
18:53 paulderscheid[m] That's good to know.
18:54 cait joined #koha
19:03 thd paulderscheid[m]: At least for the general mailing list, there are probably many people who agreed with some strongly worded messages about not wanting to loose ability to avoid checking yet another website for mailing list content.  For Flarum, reply from email is a feature being newly developed which may be proprietary, only available to hosting customers, and currently relies upon a proprietary mail service.  I will link to the discussion of
19:03 that bug which has some insights into the complications of development and the business case for why discourse is liable to loose sufficient email support in future.
19:03 davewood I needed to auto-supply and auto-increment the control-number (MARC21 field 001) so I built https://github.com/HKS3/Koha-V[…]AutoControlNumber ... i could polish it a bit and make it available for everyone if there is demand.
19:06 thd davewood: Koha should set off an alarm, not that it does, if the user would create a conflicting 001 control number.
19:12 davewood thd: im not following ... are you saying thats a feature you would recommend to add?
19:13 currently you can add a new biblio with a duplicate control-number ... I checked a couple hours ago.
19:13 thd davewood:  Your feature should already be present if it is not.  The system should fail if there are conflicting control numbers.  However, Koha has always managed the database ID which matters differently from control numbers.
19:14 davewood i still dont get it. we have a customer that wants automatic control-numbers. something that doesnt exist (let me know if im wrong).
19:15 thd davewood:  The Library of Congress had found some conflicting use of the same LCCN in multiple records which caused systems to fail.
19:18 davewood: You must be right.  The underlying system should do that but it uses a different means of identifying the record ID which started with some combination of bibliographic records standards mistake and programming design error when MARC support was added to Koha.
19:19 davewood:  If standards had been supported, conflicting 001 control numbers would have caused some failure as it does in some other systems.
19:21 tcohen joined #koha
19:21 thd davewood:  So yes, your feature to increment 001 numbers is important.
19:24 tcohen joined #koha
20:01 ashimema 001 didn't actually have to be unique
20:01 It's 001 + ...
20:02 Grr, cheese my memory
20:02 But yeah, it's the combination of two fields
20:02 Either way, your plugin looks cool
20:04 001 + 003 I believe
20:07 cait correct
20:08 we do have a way to make the biblionumber 001 in Koha now - and you can set the MarcOrgCode for your installation or each branch differently (003)
20:09 the biblionumber is asystem preference and also works on importing afaik
20:10 davewood:  check  autoControlNumber systme preference, it might be a 22.11 feature, not completely sure
20:11 and using the biblionumber will guarantee pretty well it's unique in your database
20:12 davewood not being able to link directly to a system preference is annoying
20:12 :)
20:14 ashimema Erm..
20:14 davewood autoControlNumber looks promising.
20:14 ashimema You can link to a pref
20:15 Do you mean in docs or Koha itself
20:15 Either way, there's anchors for linking if memory serves
20:15 davewood /cgi-bin/koha/admin/preferences.pl?op​=search&searchfield=autoControlNumber
20:16 ashimema++
20:16 ashimema 😃
20:16 Glad to be off service
20:16 Hehe
20:18 davidnind thd: someone I know in New Zealand, Dave Lane, has documented all the software they use for the organisation he works for - all FLOSS. His latest update: https://tech.oeru.org/updating[…]ces-february-2023
20:20 thd: he loves talking about this stuff, feel free to contact him about Discourse (advantages/disadvantages etc.) - mention you are from the Koha Community (he knows about Koha), active on Mastodon @lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
20:25 wizzyrea joined #koha
20:33 ashimema I follow Dave
20:50 tcohen joined #koha
21:03 davewood hmm .. valuebuilders are called twice everytime i request /cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/ad​dbiblio.pl?frameworkcode=TST ... naturally NEXTVAL on the sequence is called twice aswell. and I get gaps in the sequence.
21:04 tcohen joined #koha
21:11 cait davewood: I tihnk that was fixed recently
21:11 I remember wildau was on the bug, sec
21:12 davewood Koha 23.05 is our current version for this installation
21:12 cait bug 35012
21:12 huginn` 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35012 normal, P5 - low, ---, bibliothek, Pushed to oldstable , Framework item plugins fire twice on Acquisition item blocks
21:12 cait maybe it was only fixed in one spot...
21:12 23.05.06?
21:16 davewood Version: 23.05.06-1
21:17 wait ... `apt list --upgradable` => koha-common/oldstable 23.05.06-1 all [aktualisierbar von: 23.05.05-1]
21:36 uff ... upgraded and ran into this error -> https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]tabase_row_format
21:36 im calling it a night for today.

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