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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 01:22 | schnydszch joined #koha | |
| 06:36 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 06:39 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:37 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 08:01 | thibaud_g joined #koha | |
| 08:03 | lds joined #koha | |
| 08:11 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 08:22 | cait joined #koha | |
| 08:53 | Joubu | everybody using the ktd bin are seeing "Error response from daemon: No such container: koha_koha_1" and no complains? |
| 09:01 | cait | see where? |
| 09:02 | Joubu | git commit |
| 09:02 | from the pre-commit hoo | |
| 09:02 | hook | |
| 09:02 | cait | hm I didn't notice that |
| 09:03 | Joubu | make change to mainpage.pl, commit |
| 09:03 | you should see it | |
| 09:03 | if not it means the hook is not correctly setup | |
| 09:03 | that would be worse | |
| 09:05 | didg joined #koha | |
| 09:10 | thibaud_glt joined #koha | |
| 09:13 | krimsonkharne[m] | morning all |
| 09:16 | thibaud_g joined #koha | |
| 10:18 | * cait | waves |
| 10:18 | cait | Joubu: hm i thought it was working now, because it created a change to the contributors file |
| 10:18 | maybe something we could look into | |
| 10:19 | Joubu | it will try to connect to the container only if pl or pm is modified |
| 10:19 | cait | hm i pushed a ton of template and js changes |
| 10:19 | maybe that's why I didn't notice | |
| 11:35 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:08 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:08 | tcohen | hola #koha o/ |
| 12:10 | marcelr joined #koha | |
| 12:10 | marcelr | o/ |
| 12:37 | lds joined #koha | |
| 12:38 | AndrewAuld[m] joined #koha | |
| 12:39 | nugged | ö/ |
| 12:52 | cait | hello |
| 12:53 | REMINDER: Meeting in a few minutes! | |
| 12:53 | https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2023 | |
| 12:54 | aude_c[m] | Do you accept observers? :D |
| 12:57 | cait | of coure, everybody is welcome |
| 12:58 | although I don't think you are just an observer :) | |
| 12:58 | Jitsi is open | |
| 13:01 | #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 13 December 2023 | |
| 13:01 | huginn` | Meeting started Wed Dec 13 13:01:40 2023 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 13:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 13:01 | The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_13_december_2023' | |
| 13:01 | cait | #topic Introductions |
| 13:01 | nugged | (supervising observer :) ) |
| 13:01 | cait | #chair aude_c[m] |
| 13:01 | huginn` | Current chairs: aude_c[m] cait |
| 13:02 | cait | #chair tcohen |
| 13:02 | huginn` | Current chairs: aude_c[m] cait tcohen |
| 13:02 | cait | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_13_December_2023 Agenda |
| 13:03 | paulderscheid[m] | #info Paul Derscheid, LMSCloud Gmbh, Stuttgart, Germany |
| 13:03 | tcohen | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi |
| 13:03 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany |
| 13:03 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart |
| 13:03 | aude_c[m] | #info Aude Charillon, PTFS Europe, UK |
| 13:03 | nugged | #info Andrii Nugged, National Library of Finland, Helsinki, FI |
| 13:03 | marcelr | #info Marcel de Rooy |
| 13:03 | EmmiTakkinen[m] | #info Emmi Takkinen, Koha-Suomi Oy, Finland |
| 13:03 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe |
| 13:03 | aude_c[m] | #topic Announcements |
| 13:04 | #info 145 participants at the German Koha user meeting last week | |
| 13:05 | #topic Update from the Release manager (24.05) | |
| 13:06 | #info Katrin is "here and pushing things!" Still learning :) | |
| 13:07 | Annelisterman[m] | #info Anneli Österman, Koha-Suomi Oy, Finland |
| 13:07 | aude_c[m] | #info Issues with Jenkins: marcelr and others looking into it |
| 13:07 | #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers | |
| 13:07 | #info No one around! | |
| 13:07 | #topic Updates from the QA Team | |
| 13:08 | #info marcelr says there is a lot in the queue but work ongoing | |
| 13:08 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 13:09 | aude_c[m] | #topic Status of roadmap projects |
| 13:09 | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ki/Road_map_24.05 | |
| 13:10 | thd joined #koha | |
| 13:12 | aude_c[m] | #info Katrin asked for each proposal to have one project lead, 2 supporters (can't the same as the project lead!), a useful description and a linked bug. Please review to make sure your proposal has everything :) |
| 13:14 | nugged | "supporters" - from whom? ... and how gain such and can we still act for some days to fix that? |
| 13:16 | ashimema | 15449 for the C4 -> Koha Omnibus bug |
| 13:16 | emlam joined #koha | |
| 13:17 | ashimema | nugged, basically it means go out there and promote your bug.. get some backing for it... i.e. prevent the drop and run scenario and people working on things on their own and getting upset when no movement then happens |
| 13:17 | nugged | yeh, I put myself to ILL supporters then |
| 13:18 | though looking for some people to join Bug 20447 / Holding records / supporters ( Annelisterman[m] do we need that for KohaSuomi too? ) | |
| 13:18 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 13:18 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=20447 new feature, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, Needs Signoff , Add support for MARC holdings records |
| 13:18 | nugged | ashimema thanks |
| 13:19 | emlam | #info Emily Lamancusa, MCPL |
| 13:25 | ashimema | Bug 35092 - [OMNIBUS] Remaining background job/worker issues |
| 13:25 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35092 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Remaining background job/worker issues |
| 13:40 | Annelisterman[m] | nugged: We do not use holding records in public libraries but I will talk about the bug in our meetings to find out if there is anything we can do to support the work. |
| 13:43 | aude_c[m] | #info All proposals reviewed; see the wiki page. If you proposed something, check if anything is missing. |
| 13:43 | #info You can still add proposals, update proposals or add yourself as a supporter for proposals until 31 December. | |
| 13:44 | nugged | Annelisterman[m] 👍 |
| 13:44 | aude_c[m] | #info There are a lot of proposals (too many?) Project leads involved in several proposals are encouraged to make a priority list for themselves |
| 13:44 | #topic KohaCon24 update | |
| 13:45 | caroline: around? | |
| 13:45 | Joubu | https://sondagebiblio.org/index.php/828663 |
| 13:45 | cait | #link https://inlibro.com/en/kohacon2024/ |
| 13:45 | paulderscheid[m] | https://2024.kohacon.org/ |
| 13:46 | cait | #link https://2024.kohacon.org/ real website |
| 13:47 | aude_c[m] | #info Sign up at the website to receive the latest news |
| 13:47 | Joubu | 34478 - waiting for help |
| 13:47 | cait | #topic Actions from previous meetings |
| 13:48 | aude_c[m] | #info CSRF fixes: Joubu waiting for help on Bug 34478! |
| 13:48 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=34478 is not accessible. |
| 13:49 | aude_c[m] | #info perldoc.koha-community.org update needed: no move yet; moved to the roadmap |
| 13:49 | nugged | Joubu: do we have "pagination for items" in that list? |
| 13:50 | * nugged | went to search |
| 13:50 | aude_c[m] | #info Move from Gitea to Forgejo: to be moved to the roadmap |
| 13:50 | cait | aude_c++ |
| 13:52 | slef joined #koha | |
| 13:54 | aude_c[m] | #info thd not keen on Discourse, would recommend HyperKitty instead. To be added to roadmap? |
| 13:55 | #info renaming master branch to main: done | |
| 13:55 | #info Translation server migration: done | |
| 13:57 | #topic General development discussion | |
| 13:58 | #info Draft style guide: postponed to next meeting for lack of time | |
| 13:59 | #info Propose new rules for future Release Maintainers : also postponed | |
| 14:00 | #info Katrin asking for thoughts on Bug 35302 | |
| 14:00 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35302 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Koha depends on mpm_itk which prevents HTTP/2 |
| 14:03 | ashimema | #info Jonathan is looking for further support for bug 33568 - lots of testing already happened, we need a final push to get it over the line |
| 14:03 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=33568 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, In Discussion , Use the REST API to display items on the biblio detail view |
| 14:04 | aude_c[m] | #info Discussion on how to be better informed of security bugs if not part of the security group |
| 14:04 | cait | aude_c++ |
| 14:09 | aude_c[m] | #info Bug 33568 added to roadmap as well (time critical) |
| 14:09 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=33568 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, In Discussion , Use the REST API to display items on the biblio detail view |
| 14:10 | cait | #topic Set date of next meeting |
| 14:10 | #info Next meeting: 3 January 2024, 13 UTC | |
| 14:10 | #endmeeting | |
| 14:10 | huginn` | Meeting ended Wed Dec 13 14:10:55 2023 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 14:10 | Minutes: https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-12-13-13.01.html | |
| 14:10 | Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]3-12-13-13.01.txt | |
| 14:10 | Log: https://meetings.koha-communit[…]13-13.01.log.html | |
| 14:12 | Joubu | turning off my grumpiness now :D |
| 14:12 | cait | do that before teh meeting next time heh |
| 14:12 | nah, you made your point, it's good - we need to be on the same page | |
| 14:13 | tcohen | Joubu we should compile a list of outstanding issues, on the Wiki, so people don't feel overwhelmed about the bug size |
| 14:13 | I'm reading the bug now FYI, and I still feel we need that list in a more easy to track place | |
| 14:14 | doesn't need to be you who does it, though | |
| 14:14 | caroline | sorry, I just came in :/ |
| 14:14 | tcohen | you're volunteered for rewriting Koha in Go already |
| 14:14 | caroline | lol, expect downtimes and a lot of bugs |
| 14:15 | for some reason, not all meetings appear in my thunderbird calendar (but some do, so it's very weird) | |
| 14:21 | lds_ joined #koha | |
| 14:22 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: Are you still here? |
| 14:25 | paulderscheid[m] | Yes |
| 14:28 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: Will you consider upgrading to Mailman 3 and using Hyperkitty as forum software? |
| 14:30 | paulderscheid[m] | Definitely |
| 14:31 | As there's already a bug, I'll document the evaluation there. | |
| 14:31 | thd | I know that the biggest attraction [for an experimenter] of starting with Discourse is that everyone would need to resubscribe. There is no mechanism for taking the legacy with us. |
| 14:32 | Joubu | we can |
| 14:32 | passwords are in plaintext... | |
| 14:33 | paulderscheid[m] | It would be awesome if you could add your findings to the bug thd. Then we always have it as a reference point. |
| 14:34 | thd | Hyperkitty is definitely second class forum software at least in comparison to how it appears in comparison to Discourse. However, Hyperkitty is fine and the mailing list component is not an afterthought. |
| 14:36 | I investigated Discourse fairly deeply several months ago when it was raised on the mailing list but I did not keep track of all the bug reports which I had examined closely. | |
| 14:38 | paulderscheid[m] | If you ever got around to collecting your thoughts on the bug, it would be very much appreciated. |
| 14:42 | Joubu | cait: I run the meeting script |
| 14:42 | thd | I can copy what I wrote about the issue to the Koha mailing list. |
| 14:42 | paulderscheid[m] | That would be great. |
| 14:46 | thd | Fixing DMARC support so that we have time to investigate fully is trivial. It would take only a few minutes to change three lines for the general mailing list. I have provided complete instructions to rachel. |
| 14:49 | marcelr | Joubu: could you look at bug 35507 now ? |
| 14:49 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35507 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Fix handling plugins in unit tests causing random failures on Jenkins |
| 14:50 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: Gmail seems likely to give a free pass to DMARC with only the DK |
| 14:50 | .. with only the DKIM signatures of the original author messages. | |
| 14:51 | paulderscheid[m] | Noted |
| 14:56 | thd | The biggest thing which is missing for DMARC at Katipo is the DMARC line in DNS. Toggling two Mailman configuration settings accessible via the web interface is a little easier. For all I know, there is a web interface controlling the DNS settings for Katipo but rachel may not know how that is controlled. |
| 15:03 | Sysadmins at BibLibre seem to not have time to fix their broken DKIM from the mail server which is likely only a trivial configuration issue. However, even with no DKIM signitures even from an original author Gmail has been giving messages a free pass simply for having SPF and DMARC in my testing when I turned off DKIM. | |
| 15:03 | Joubu | marcelr: KitchenSinkPlugin.kpz is not longer needed then |
| 15:05 | marcelr | i restore this stiuff elsewhere |
| 15:05 | report opened | |
| 15:06 | Joubu | bug 35548 |
| 15:06 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35548 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, chris, NEW , Move KitchenSink test on its own and control table creation |
| 15:06 | thd | Joubu, I forgot to mention it at the meeting but we should turn on DMARC support for the other mailing lists aside from koha-devel at lists.koha-community.org before February. |
| 15:08 | Joubu | ok, unless we are moving away from mailman before February |
| 15:10 | thd | I assume that it will take time to investigate Discourse, Flarum, and Hyperkitty. |
| 15:32 | cait | Joubu++ thx! |
| 15:39 | it's great to see us updating our infrastructure software - it's good for the project, even if a bit painful in the beginnings | |
| 15:41 | aude_c++ # thanks so much for taking the minutes | |
| 15:48 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 15:49 | tcohen | Bye all, BBL |
| 16:00 | bag joined #koha | |
| 16:12 | cait | paulderscheid[m]: still around? |
| 16:35 | reiveune | bye |
| 16:35 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 17:03 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 17:04 | ashimema | interesting |
| 17:57 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: I was misled to believe that the basic functionality of date queries was absent from Discourse by some related bug report which may have been marked won't fix. As I found the bug before finding the advanced search interface I falsely concluded that there was only the simple search box. The bug must have been related to searching by time period between two dates or something otherwise relating to date queries. |
| 18:05 | paulderscheid[m]: My strong objection to Discourse based on the mistaken absence of a basic fundamental feature is gone. I only now have significant concerns about Discourse not being a community project and the likelihood that sufficient email support which some people need will be dropped in future for simple business reasons. | |
| 18:07 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 18:08 | cait left #koha | |
| 18:13 | ashimema | Discourse is GNU General Public License Version 2.0 |
| 18:13 | Open source | |
| 18:15 | And whilst there's not the Koha community level of contributors.. there are till around 50 | |
| 18:15 | Sorry.. 100 | |
| 18:15 | thd | Yes, but it is the product of a single company, not a widely distributed community. Some features ( or perhaps some plugins with useful features) are not available for self-hosted instances. |
| 18:19 | One primary company controlling development and distribution despite many outside contributors is not as advantageous as a larger community which understandably usually takes longer if it is not prevented by some improper advantage such as contributor license agreements. | |
| 18:22 | The thing I really found off-putting was some negative indication in some bugs marked won't fix which might have been worded in a more community friendly manner. | |
| 18:23 | However, in general, I find that marking bugs won't fix is harsh when not accompanied by some apology for not knowing a good way to start or explaining a lack of funding for the work involved etc. | |
| 18:29 | There is actually a remedy for time period after some date and before some other date but it is only via a plugin exposing the whole database to SQL queries which necessarily cannot be available to any but carefully vetted users. However, if time period is where I found the bug report I was misled and missed the feature because advanced search was hidden in the hidden menu after invoking search. | |
| 18:33 | I do not have enough practice revealing user interfaces hidden by a hierarchy skeuomorphic icons. | |
| 18:47 | paulderscheid[m] | Hi thd, your concerns regarding Discourse are taken into account. We'll make a pro/con list for all solutions. I'm not very fond of Flarum to be honest. They don't have an official docker image and I really don't want to maintain a php project on bare metal. So the current targets of evaluation are basically Hyperkitty and Discourse. |
| 18:49 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: My concerns about Discourse have greatly diminished since the basic feature I thought was missing with some problem for making it work was merely a mistake I made over some related bug report. |
| 18:49 | paulderscheid[m] | Yes, I read back. |
| 18:51 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: I tried to use Google to find the search by date bug marked won't fix and instead I found forum reports about where to find the feature :) |
| 18:52 | paulderscheid[m] | Wonderful :) |
| 18:53 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: Flarum, being perhaps a younger project has a worse FOSS vs proprietary balance for another key feature. |
| 18:53 | paulderscheid[m] | That's good to know. |
| 18:54 | cait joined #koha | |
| 19:03 | thd | paulderscheid[m]: At least for the general mailing list, there are probably many people who agreed with some strongly worded messages about not wanting to loose ability to avoid checking yet another website for mailing list content. For Flarum, reply from email is a feature being newly developed which may be proprietary, only available to hosting customers, and currently relies upon a proprietary mail service. I will link to the discussion of |
| 19:03 | that bug which has some insights into the complications of development and the business case for why discourse is liable to loose sufficient email support in future. | |
| 19:03 | davewood | I needed to auto-supply and auto-increment the control-number (MARC21 field 001) so I built https://github.com/HKS3/Koha-V[…]AutoControlNumber ... i could polish it a bit and make it available for everyone if there is demand. |
| 19:06 | thd | davewood: Koha should set off an alarm, not that it does, if the user would create a conflicting 001 control number. |
| 19:12 | davewood | thd: im not following ... are you saying thats a feature you would recommend to add? |
| 19:13 | currently you can add a new biblio with a duplicate control-number ... I checked a couple hours ago. | |
| 19:13 | thd | davewood: Your feature should already be present if it is not. The system should fail if there are conflicting control numbers. However, Koha has always managed the database ID which matters differently from control numbers. |
| 19:14 | davewood | i still dont get it. we have a customer that wants automatic control-numbers. something that doesnt exist (let me know if im wrong). |
| 19:15 | thd | davewood: The Library of Congress had found some conflicting use of the same LCCN in multiple records which caused systems to fail. |
| 19:18 | davewood: You must be right. The underlying system should do that but it uses a different means of identifying the record ID which started with some combination of bibliographic records standards mistake and programming design error when MARC support was added to Koha. | |
| 19:19 | davewood: If standards had been supported, conflicting 001 control numbers would have caused some failure as it does in some other systems. | |
| 19:21 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 19:21 | thd | davewood: So yes, your feature to increment 001 numbers is important. |
| 19:24 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 20:01 | ashimema | 001 didn't actually have to be unique |
| 20:01 | It's 001 + ... | |
| 20:02 | Grr, cheese my memory | |
| 20:02 | But yeah, it's the combination of two fields | |
| 20:02 | Either way, your plugin looks cool | |
| 20:04 | 001 + 003 I believe | |
| 20:07 | cait | correct |
| 20:08 | we do have a way to make the biblionumber 001 in Koha now - and you can set the MarcOrgCode for your installation or each branch differently (003) | |
| 20:09 | the biblionumber is asystem preference and also works on importing afaik | |
| 20:10 | davewood: check autoControlNumber systme preference, it might be a 22.11 feature, not completely sure | |
| 20:11 | and using the biblionumber will guarantee pretty well it's unique in your database | |
| 20:12 | davewood | not being able to link directly to a system preference is annoying |
| 20:12 | :) | |
| 20:14 | ashimema | Erm.. |
| 20:14 | davewood | autoControlNumber looks promising. |
| 20:14 | ashimema | You can link to a pref |
| 20:15 | Do you mean in docs or Koha itself | |
| 20:15 | Either way, there's anchors for linking if memory serves | |
| 20:15 | davewood | /cgi-bin/koha/admin/preferences.pl?op=search&searchfield=autoControlNumber |
| 20:16 | ashimema++ | |
| 20:16 | ashimema | 😃 |
| 20:16 | Glad to be off service | |
| 20:16 | Hehe | |
| 20:18 | davidnind | thd: someone I know in New Zealand, Dave Lane, has documented all the software they use for the organisation he works for - all FLOSS. His latest update: https://tech.oeru.org/updating[…]ces-february-2023 |
| 20:20 | thd: he loves talking about this stuff, feel free to contact him about Discourse (advantages/disadvantages etc.) - mention you are from the Koha Community (he knows about Koha), active on Mastodon @lightweightmastodon.nzoss.nz |
|
| 20:25 | wizzyrea joined #koha | |
| 20:33 | ashimema | I follow Dave |
| 20:50 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 21:03 | davewood | hmm .. valuebuilders are called twice everytime i request /cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbiblio.pl?frameworkcode=TST ... naturally NEXTVAL on the sequence is called twice aswell. and I get gaps in the sequence. |
| 21:04 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 21:11 | cait | davewood: I tihnk that was fixed recently |
| 21:11 | I remember wildau was on the bug, sec | |
| 21:12 | davewood | Koha 23.05 is our current version for this installation |
| 21:12 | cait | bug 35012 |
| 21:12 | huginn` | 04Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=35012 normal, P5 - low, ---, bibliothek, Pushed to oldstable , Framework item plugins fire twice on Acquisition item blocks |
| 21:12 | cait | maybe it was only fixed in one spot... |
| 21:12 | 23.05.06? | |
| 21:16 | davewood | Version: 23.05.06-1 |
| 21:17 | wait ... `apt list --upgradable` => koha-common/oldstable 23.05.06-1 all [aktualisierbar von: 23.05.05-1] | |
| 21:36 | uff ... upgraded and ran into this error -> https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]tabase_row_format | |
| 21:36 | im calling it a night for today. |
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