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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 00:01 | aleisha_ joined #koha | |
| 00:04 | aleisha_ | hi all |
| 00:04 | kidclamp | hi aleisha_ |
| 00:04 | wizzyrea | hi aleisha |
| 00:04 | aleisha_ left #koha | |
| 00:04 | aleisha_ joined #koha | |
| 00:05 | aleisha_ | hows it going kidclamp |
| 00:05 | kidclamp | pretty good, how's about you? |
| 00:07 | irma joined #koha | |
| 00:08 | * dcook | waves to folk |
| 00:09 | JoshB joined #koha | |
| 00:10 | kholt joined #koha | |
| 00:12 | aleisha_ | good thanks! |
| 00:14 | papa joined #koha | |
| 00:18 | dcook | kidclamp: Looking at an old blog post I made about linked data... |
| 00:18 | And the two records I've linked to are already dead links :p | |
| 00:19 | The post is from November 2015, so I guess it's not super recent.. | |
| 00:19 | kidclamp | hah, that is a problem |
| 00:19 | I need to reply to your post(s) by the way | |
| 00:19 | dcook | I need to keep researching I think |
| 00:19 | kidclamp | heh, as do we all likely |
| 00:20 | two things quick 1- my big concern is just that we make it easy to switch backends | |
| 00:20 | 2 - we don't have to resolve our urls, it just seems way cooler to do so :-0) | |
| 00:20 | :-) | |
| 00:21 | dcook | hehe |
| 00:21 | Yeah, I want it easy to switch backends as well | |
| 00:21 | Although I figure until we know what we want to do with the backend... | |
| 00:21 | It might make it difficult to create an API for the backend | |
| 00:21 | I still find updates so... troubling | |
| 00:22 | Although maybe it's not so different from relational databases.. | |
| 00:22 | I find all the interconnections a bit mind boggling | |
| 00:22 | Like... sure a URI can replace an ID in a relational database | |
| 00:22 | But then what about all the triples that are linked from that URI.. | |
| 00:22 | There's no "Delete: Cascade" | |
| 00:23 | kidclamp | I was at code4lib and talked to the Boston Public Library guys who are doing a lot of work, they implemented everything via SQL - any type was table |
| 00:23 | dcook | Nor should there be I suppose... but :S |
| 00:23 | kidclamp | it is definitely difficult |
| 00:23 | dcook | any type? |
| 00:23 | What do you mean by "any type was table"? | |
| 00:23 | * kidclamp | gets very bad at words when thinking talking RDF |
| 00:24 | dcook | I suppose I'm OK with using a relational database for a triplestore... unless it introduces pecularities that make it impossible to move to a native triplestore |
| 00:24 | But I suppose if we use enough layers of abstraction, we shouldn't have to worry about that | |
| 00:24 | kidclamp: Have I shown you this link? http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc84 | |
| 00:24 | kidclamp | any node that was a 'type' I think I mean class? |
| 00:24 | dcook | It was suggested to me by.. |
| 00:25 | caboose joined #koha | |
| 00:25 | kidclamp | basically if they had a bunch of things, each type of thing was a table |
| 00:25 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 00:25 | dcook | This person: http://www.meanboyfriend.com/overdue_ideas/about/ |
| 00:25 | Hmm still not sure I follow | |
| 00:25 | Are you meaning like auth, bib, hold or a different type of "type"? | |
| 00:25 | kidclamp | RDF type/class |
| 00:25 | dcook | Or like "Work", "Instance", "Person" |
| 00:26 | kidclamp | that^ |
| 00:26 | dcook | Ah yeah I get you now |
| 00:26 | Yeah, that's another thing I've been thinking about | |
| 00:26 | Which makes it so much harder I think.. haha | |
| 00:29 | That's the thing I hate about RDF... it's so loose | |
| 00:29 | Although little bit of trivia... | |
| 00:29 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/[…]Metadata_Platform | |
| 00:29 | XMP sidecar files use RDF | |
| 00:29 | kidclamp | it feels like too much was done without enough thought on how it would actually work |
| 00:29 | dcook | So if you're using Lightroom or Darktable or whatever... you're using RDF O_O |
| 00:29 | kidclamp: I'm so in agreement there | |
| 00:30 | Or maybe libraries are misunderstanding it all | |
| 00:30 | Or I'm misunderstanding it all haha | |
| 00:30 | It doesn't seem like it's really meant to be interoperable per se... | |
| 00:31 | But that you can point to a thing and say "Yeah... that's the thing I'm talking about" | |
| 00:31 | Like that OCLC example.. | |
| 00:31 | You can say "Oh, I'm talking about http://dbpedia.org/resource/London" | |
| 00:31 | And we all know you're talking about London, England once we've followed the links | |
| 00:31 | But other than that... | |
| 00:31 | it still seems like you need to do some work locally | |
| 00:31 | And potentially hardcode a lot of things... or make complex mappings | |
| 00:32 | kidclamp | yeah, you need to index the terms you are linking too if you want to search at all |
| 00:32 | dcook | search/display... yeah |
| 00:32 | Then keeping that up-to-date... | |
| 00:32 | I think the keeping it up-to-date thing is what I struggle with most | |
| 00:33 | kidclamp | caching and regular crawling seems to be the only theory |
| 00:33 | dcook | Yeah, I'd like to see some real life examples of it though |
| 00:33 | Especially since for updates, you need to delete your existing cache | |
| 00:33 | Although I guess caches are supposed to be throwaway.. | |
| 00:34 | I feel like if I could just find one good production example... I'd have more confidence in the whole thing | |
| 00:34 | I wouldn't really want to repeat the Zebra debacle | |
| 00:35 | I mean... Zebra works but I don't think they quite knew how it worked at the start | |
| 00:36 | kidclamp | I think the more it is implemented the more different things will be done though |
| 00:37 | dcook | Linked Data? |
| 00:37 | Seems like | |
| 00:37 | kidclamp | like ElasticSearch, we are using it for searching - that is the least of the things people use it for now |
| 00:37 | dcook | Yeah? |
| 00:37 | wahanui | hmmm... Yeah is there a good way to fix that to get the new one running? |
| 00:37 | dcook | I admit I haven't kept up with ES too much |
| 00:37 | I mostly see ads for it in conjunction with other modules though yeah | |
| 00:39 | kidclamp | lots of statistics and logging stuff |
| 00:40 | dcook | Mmm I'd seen the logging thing. Is that with Kibana? |
| 00:40 | I met someone from ElasticSearch a couple years ago and meant to stay in touch but just been too busy :/ | |
| 00:40 | kidclamp | I like the 'percolation' feature - using a search of existing documents to classify a new document |
| 00:40 | yeah, es | |
| 00:40 | wahanui | i heard yeah, es was back working. Refactoring it to work with authorities at the moment |
| 00:40 | kidclamp | es + kibana is most common, because it works out of the box with no config basically |
| 00:40 | you don't have to build a search enginge :-) | |
| 00:41 | dcook | :D |
| 00:41 | I do wonder sometimes though how sophisticated these searches are though | |
| 00:41 | Mind you, there's the whole "full text indexing" is all you need | |
| 00:41 | I haven't looked at Kibana though so I'm just rambling | |
| 00:42 | What was I thinking of.. | |
| 00:42 | Too many browser tabs | |
| 00:42 | I'm looking at this at the moment: http://stanbol.apache.org/overview.html | |
| 00:42 | But I don't think it's what I'm really looking for.. | |
| 00:43 | Too bad the word semantic can be used in too many different ways :p | |
| 00:44 | kidclamp | interesting looking though |
| 00:45 | dcook | I feel a bit like LIBRIS might not be using RDF "correctly"... |
| 00:45 | And that is adding to my confusion.. | |
| 00:46 | http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc81 | |
| 00:47 | wizzyrea | forget yeah |
| 00:47 | wahanui | wizzyrea: I forgot yeah |
| 00:48 | dcook | "Multiple Named Graphs can be represented together in the form of a graph set." that looks useful.. |
| 00:51 | Wonder if I hadn't read this before or just forgot about it since November 2015.. | |
| 00:53 | So in this example... let's say we have an authority record about "Dave Smith" | |
| 00:54 | It's time to refresh the data, so we start crawling the links... and we save the results to their own named graphs | |
| 00:54 | Makes sense to me... I don't know how else you'd reasonably manage them.. | |
| 00:55 | Although it still seems like you could wind up with a lot of useless data over time | |
| 00:55 | I suppose you could have a cleanup job... | |
| 00:56 | Checking every graph if it's referred to by another graph within the triplestore... | |
| 00:56 | Because let's say that Dave moves away to the US from the UK. No longer lives near Birmingham. | |
| 00:56 | We have this cached Birmingham graph | |
| 00:57 | Even if we were manually updating the record on Dave... I don't think it would make sense to check at deletion time if anyone else is referring to that graph... as that would be a heavy processing job.. | |
| 00:58 | kidclamp | need the RDF equivalent of 404 page - We deleted that info as it was old and moldy |
| 00:58 | please stop linking here | |
| 00:59 | dcook | Yeah I think about that as well |
| 00:59 | I mean.. | |
| 00:59 | If you're crawling and you get a 404... what do you do? | |
| 00:59 | Maybe it's a case of a web app error and it will come back | |
| 00:59 | Or maybe it's gone for good | |
| 00:59 | I like the idea of linked data, but... | |
| 01:00 | Not sure how practical it is :/ | |
| 01:02 | kidclamp | don't tell talljoy, sometimes i like the idea of marc records supplemented by linked data - use the work links to aggregate, but keep our march there as the base for searching etc |
| 01:02 | shhhhhh | |
| 01:02 | dcook | hehe |
| 01:03 | Arguably none of this is relevant for my work of course... | |
| 01:04 | If I recall correctly, I'm supposed to just get the RDF in to the triplestore | |
| 01:04 | But... I need to know how we're doing that a bit if I'm going to do that | |
| 01:04 | So with Stockholm University Library, they're using OAI-PMH to get RDF records from LIBRIS | |
| 01:04 | LIBRIS being the national library's union catalogue | |
| 01:05 | Makes sense to me. Catalogue centrally is more efficient than duplicating effort across a country. | |
| 01:05 | But it provides some problems.. | |
| 01:05 | I've been thinking about saving those triples under a named graph with the name coming from Koha | |
| 01:05 | But since Thursday I've been thinking... | |
| 01:06 | I should use the URI from LIBRIS | |
| 01:06 | and then in Koha... just have something like owl:sameAs | |
| 01:06 | or koha:derivedFrom | |
| 01:06 | Something like that | |
| 01:06 | Maybe... koha:oai-pmh | |
| 01:06 | So that we don't recrawl it... | |
| 01:06 | Since my OAI-PMH harvester is pushing up-to-date records into the triplestore | |
| 01:07 | We don't need a crawl to fetch them | |
| 01:07 | Of course, I think this is a bit where old world and new world clash... shouldn't need OAI-PMH in theory | |
| 01:07 | Not for updates | |
| 01:07 | * dcook | shrugs |
| 01:07 | dcook | Complicated |
| 01:07 | wahanui | somebody said Complicated was far too mild a term to describe Search.pm. |
| 01:07 | dcook | Ouais, wahanui, ouais |
| 01:08 | Mmm, or... instead of koha:derivedFrom or whatever | |
| 01:08 | I use OAI-PMH to save the LIBRIS record to a named graph | |
| 01:08 | Then... create linkages automatically with a separate Koha named graph | |
| 01:08 | Named graph for a Koha bib that is | |
| 01:09 | Those linkages using predicates that are pre-agreed upon | |
| 01:09 | Because the question becomes... what vocabulary/vocabularies do we use in Koha? | |
| 01:10 | That kind of comes upa t http://linkeddatabook.com/editions/1.0/#htoc84 | |
| 01:10 | "In order to understand as much Web data as possible, Linked Data applications translate terms from different vocabularies into a single target schema." | |
| 01:10 | I think we can see that with OCLC | |
| 01:11 | While it points to http://dbpedia.org/resource/London, it uses the "schema" schema | |
| 01:11 | Instead of the schemas preferred by dbpedia | |
| 01:11 | I assume they're mapped somewhere in OCLC's back-end | |
| 01:11 | And that makes sense | |
| 01:11 | Without those mappings... I think it would be impossible.. | |
| 01:12 | Folk like Oslo Public Library and LIBRIS use their own schemas... | |
| 01:12 | Whether Koha comes up with its own schema or uses an existing standard.. | |
| 01:12 | kidclamp: And I think that's vitally important in terms of indexing the data | |
| 01:12 | wizzyrea | https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 01:12 | dcook | wizzyrea: I think that's my favourite xkcd of all time |
| 01:12 | That and the one about encryption | |
| 01:13 | https://xkcd.com/538/ | |
| 01:13 | That's the one | |
| 01:13 | Bloody hell.. | |
| 01:13 | Spanner came to mind before wrench | |
| 01:13 | I'm being assimilated... | |
| 01:13 | kidclamp | yeah, I am up in the air about choosing a schema |
| 01:14 | dcook | To be honest, I think it's somethign that should've happened a long time ago |
| 01:14 | MARC is a great interchange format, but I think its limitations... | |
| 01:14 | Well they've hindered us I think | |
| 01:15 | kidclamp | I think as long as we have a way to index any specific scheam we can get away with being fleixible, it just means a ton of mapping work - chossing one schema and running with that doesn't preclude supporting others, it just means we focus the work in one place |
| 01:15 | dcook | That's a good point |
| 01:15 | Not hard-coding things++ | |
| 01:16 | kidclamp | agnosticism++ |
| 01:18 | dcook | I suppose that will have to be in the SPARQL.. |
| 01:18 | I really dislike how you can't really make parameterized SPARQL queries | |
| 01:19 | But I suppose subjects and predicates should all be in URI format | |
| 01:19 | So that should make data validation a bit easier | |
| 01:19 | I keep thinking this is going to be so inefficient.. | |
| 01:20 | Actually, I think we'd still need a single target schema | |
| 01:20 | Well one way or another.. | |
| 01:21 | In theory, Zebra could actually be used too. | |
| 01:21 | Since it can handle any XML-based format | |
| 01:23 | Vocabulary mapping... and that's how we get LIBRIS into a format Koha knows.. | |
| 01:24 | But check this out: https://libris.kb.se/data/oaip[…]dataPrefix=rdfxml | |
| 01:24 | At the top level we have kbv:Record | |
| 01:25 | Then sdo:mainEntity then bf2:Instance then bf2:title then bf2:InstanceTitle then bf2:mainTitle | |
| 01:25 | Just to get the title | |
| 01:25 | I guess that would look something like... kbv:Record/sdo:mainEntity/bf2:instance/bf2:title/bf2:InstanceTitle/bf2:mainTitle in xpath.. | |
| 01:30 | kidclamp | so simple |
| 01:30 | dcook | hehe |
| 01:30 | And surely there must be non-XML based mappings.. | |
| 01:32 | http://data.linkedmdb.org/page/film/2014 | |
| 01:32 | I've seen this with LIBRIS... a mix of their own schema and established schemas | |
| 01:34 | Then on dbpedia: http://dbpedia.org/page/The_Shining_%28film%29 | |
| 01:34 | Thte title is dbp:name | |
| 01:34 | On linkedmdb they use dc:title | |
| 01:34 | Let's say we were cataloguing The Shining in Koha.. | |
| 01:35 | You'd maybe use owl:sameAS for linkedmdb and dbpedia.. | |
| 01:35 | Maybe too a library database like LIBRIS, Library of Congress, National Library of Australia, etc | |
| 01:35 | But then you might want to use your local schema that you could index easily.. | |
| 01:36 | Now that I think about it... aren't we already using microdata... | |
| 01:36 | kidclamp | supposedly at least :-) |
| 01:36 | but I am off for the night | |
| 01:37 | dcook | I don't even know where you live so I can't hassle you :p |
| 01:37 | night in any case :) | |
| 01:37 | kidclamp | I wish our time zones coincided when I was less tired :-) |
| 01:37 | Vermont, North East USA | |
| 01:37 | UTC -5? | |
| 01:37 | dcook | 9:37pm, eh? Yeah I guess that's fair |
| 01:37 | That's my ideal bedtime :p | |
| 01:37 | kidclamp | it's my beertime |
| 01:37 | then bedtime | |
| 01:38 | dcook | Yeah I wish our time zones coincided more too |
| 01:38 | You have kids? | |
| 01:38 | kidclamp | one |
| 01:38 | but he is the best one | |
| 01:38 | :D | |
| 01:38 | dcook | Oh man, I misread beertime as bedtime |
| 01:38 | hehe | |
| 01:38 | That's what I always say too | |
| 01:38 | Anyway, I won't keep you. Enjoy :) | |
| 01:38 | I might send out another email... a much shorter one | |
| 01:38 | kidclamp | go for it, I will talk with Joy and argue and respond :-) |
| 01:38 | night | |
| 01:39 | dcook | hehe |
| 01:42 | Hmm... maybe using the schema.org schema would be a good place to start | |
| 01:46 | rangi | we have schema.org support in koha already |
| 01:46 | dcook | rangi: Yeah, that's what I mean |
| 01:46 | rangi | and it is extensible |
| 01:46 | dcook | Well, in terms of microdata at least |
| 01:46 | rangi | yep |
| 01:46 | dcook | So that's really good |
| 01:47 | We could use that in a triplestore as well | |
| 01:47 | rangi | https://bib.schema.org/ |
| 01:47 | we should use more of what is available here | |
| 01:47 | * dcook | gives a thumbs up |
| 01:49 | dcook | So yeah... we already have embedded RDF statements using HTML+Microdata... |
| 01:49 | We could have those RDF statements in a triplestore... | |
| 01:49 | rangi | yep a good starting point |
| 01:50 | dcook | Yeah, I think they all use literals for the moment but that's OK |
| 01:50 | As you say, good starting point | |
| 01:50 | rangi | have you seen this? |
| 01:50 | http://linter.structured-data.[…]dl%253A%2520fiish | |
| 01:50 | dcook | Nope |
| 01:51 | That's pretty coool | |
| 01:52 | I wonder if there's a nicer way to do subjects than schema:keywords.. | |
| 01:53 | rangi | probably |
| 01:53 | dcook | I wish I could see what OCLC is doing behind the scenes.. as I like some of their examples |
| 01:53 | http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/973430700 | |
| 01:55 | rangi | right |
| 01:56 | dcook | Looking at theirs... I feel like <http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/973430700> is probably in a named graph |
| 01:56 | As are the "related entities" | |
| 01:56 | And they've just aggregated them here on the page.. | |
| 01:56 | Although they do it in the downloads too | |
| 01:56 | Seemingly with SPARQL's DESCRIBE, although I haven't played with that in terms of named graphs yet | |
| 01:58 | Probably wouldn't be that hard.. | |
| 01:58 | rangi: The thing I find interesting with that example is the <http://dbpedia.org/resource/London> entry | |
| 01:58 | schema:name is something that OCLC must have generated | |
| 01:59 | As that triple doesn't exist in dbpedia | |
| 01:59 | I reckon when they crawled the dbpedia URI... they must have run it through a mapper and only saved it with the mapped/filtered triples.. | |
| 01:59 | Although I suppose they could've constructed the entity for display purposes here too.. | |
| 02:00 | Now if you were to import this record from OCLC... | |
| 02:00 | Well that's where my mind bends a bit.. | |
| 02:01 | You've ordered "Good Omens" as you got a purchase request for it | |
| 02:01 | You subscribe to Worldcat | |
| 02:01 | You need a local record in your LMS so that your library patrons can find it | |
| 02:02 | Do you just do a owl:sameAs? | |
| 02:02 | Maybe you fill out some basic details for your indexer? | |
| 02:03 | Using owl:sameAs or some alternative... perhaps you could define some rules to crawl that entity... | |
| 02:03 | And show that somewhere on your web page.. | |
| 02:03 | But that doesn't necessarily make sense.. | |
| 02:06 | rangi | yep |
| 02:06 | you should really talk with teh Oslo people | |
| 02:06 | * dcook | agrees |
| 02:06 | rangi | as they have a fully rdf based catalogue working |
| 02:07 | only ones in the world afaik | |
| 02:07 | dcook | I think LIBRIS might be too, but I'm not 100% sure yet |
| 02:07 | Not sure if they're still demoing or not | |
| 02:07 | Need to talk to them too | |
| 02:07 | rangi | i think its still marc, that they render as rdf on the fly |
| 02:07 | dcook | Mmm, I don't think so |
| 02:07 | I took a look a bit at their github | |
| 02:07 | Or maybe it used to be.. | |
| 02:08 | I think now they have an editor (Catalinker) | |
| 02:08 | And that saves to both the triplestore and Koha's marc database | |
| 02:08 | rangi | ah cool |
| 02:08 | dcook | Didn't have enough time to totally go through it all |
| 02:08 | rangi | (i meant libris not oslo) |
| 02:08 | dcook | Do you know if that's all done by Petter or if they have others? |
| 02:08 | rangi | lots and lots of others |
| 02:08 | dcook | Yeah, the LIBRIS records are intense... and I'm not sure if they're 100% correct.. |
| 02:08 | Not enough experience to know for sure though | |
| 02:08 | rangi | rurik is the main project/manager tech lead |
| 02:09 | dcook | Rurik Greenall? |
| 02:09 | rangi | yup |
| 02:09 | dcook | I figure if I can chat to them... they might be able to clarify everything |
| 02:09 | rangi | https://twitter.com/brinxmat |
| 02:10 | dcook | I mean... they're really the perfect people to talk to since they're interfacing with Koha too |
| 02:10 | rangi | drop him a tweet |
| 02:10 | * dcook | thumbs up |
| 02:10 | rangi | he was at Kohacon16 and gave a good talk at the hackfest |
| 02:10 | dcook | What was the talk about? |
| 02:11 | Oh wait hackfest... those wouldn't be recorded | |
| 02:12 | caboose joined #koha | |
| 02:13 | dcook | tweet sent |
| 02:13 | I think I can wrap my head around almost everything except copy cataloguing with RDF | |
| 02:15 | rangi | heh, im not @rangi im @ranginui (just fyi) |
| 02:15 | dcook | Ah balls |
| 02:15 | I was going to double-check! | |
| 02:16 | ibeardslee | check twice, tweet once |
| 02:16 | dcook | hehe |
| 02:16 | I haven't tweeted in too long... can't even find my own tweet now.. | |
| 02:17 | Surely it show up under my tweets.. | |
| 02:17 | rangi | https://twitter.com/minusdavid[…]54155774943154176 |
| 02:17 | dcook | Cheers |
| 02:18 | Don't know why it's not showing up in my UI | |
| 02:18 | Ahh, because I don't understand conventions I guess.. | |
| 02:19 | Tweets & replies rather than just Tweets... I guess because I @ed someone? | |
| 02:19 | rangi | ah yeah |
| 02:20 | dcook | Hmmm https://bibflow.library.ucdavi[…]/copy-cataloging/ |
| 02:21 | Gotta love super low res images.. | |
| 02:21 | I'm too young to be squinting.. | |
| 02:22 | Interesting... it seems that they do download the OCLC graph.. | |
| 02:23 | But maybe just into the cataloguer | |
| 02:23 | That seems... | |
| 02:24 | I'm intrigued by a RDF->MARC conversion as well. | |
| 02:25 | As I don't see a lot of data out there about that, yet that seems to be what UCDavis and Oslo both do.. | |
| 02:26 | Interesting... and they're using BIBFRAME... of some kind | |
| 02:27 | I do wonder a bit about using some other tools for handling RDF records... and hooking them more loosely into Koha.. | |
| 02:27 | Not that that is even anywhere near my problem atm.. | |
| 02:30 | Actually, that all looks proposed... | |
| 02:34 | https://news.minitex.umn.edu/n[…]d-data-cataloging | |
| 02:35 | And this year the National Library of Finland is opening up its national bibliography as linked data it seems.. | |
| 02:42 | So if you did download from http://www.worldcat.org/title/[…]ns/oclc/973430700 | |
| 02:43 | You'd. | |
| 02:43 | Would you stick them all in one named graph or break them up.. | |
| 02:43 | If you broke them up, your schema:name would go into that named graph... | |
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| 05:14 | * magnuse | waves |
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| 05:19 | * dcook | waves |
| 05:19 | dcook | Hey magnuse, chatting to @brinxmat on Twitter about LD atm |
| 05:20 | Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes at all | |
| 05:20 | I think it relates to how I import/store the data though | |
| 05:25 | At the moment, I'm thinking we download the records via OAI-PMH then... run them through a filter which creates triples that Koha can understand. Although we could also use SPARQL CONSTRUCT although that would in theory involve more hardcoding... | |
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| 06:13 | magnuse | dcook: sorry, was busy in another window |
| 06:13 | brinxmat probably has good advice | |
| 06:15 | mveron joined #koha | |
| 06:16 | mveron | Good morning / daytime #koha |
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| 06:26 | josef_moravec | morning #koha |
| 06:31 | dcook | magnuse: No worry. I have about a million different things happening at once anyway :) |
| 06:31 | 4-5 always seems the busiest time of day! | |
| 06:31 | magnuse: Unfortunately, I don't think he'll be able to help too much, but it'll be good to get some more details | |
| 06:32 | They dont' used named graphs though which was interesting | |
| 06:32 | Although maybe that's partially because they don't do any real linking | |
| 06:32 | At least to outside entities | |
| 06:32 | And they don't import RDF at all :/ | |
| 06:36 | ashimema joined #koha | |
| 06:41 | magnuse | dcook: yeah, bit of a different use case, i guess |
| 06:45 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 06:46 | dcook | Yeah maybe |
| 06:46 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 06:46 | wahanui | hello, alex_a |
| 06:50 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 06:51 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:51 | wahanui | salut, reiveune |
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| 07:01 | oha | o/ |
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| 07:14 | dcook | oha... that name is familiar |
| 07:16 | oha | dcook: eheh, is it because (k)oha? :) |
| 07:17 | dcook | I don't think so... I'm sure I've seen your full name somewhere :p |
| 07:18 | oha | dcook: oh! not sure. i've used oha for more than 20 years now. |
| 07:20 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 07:20 | gaetan_B | hello |
| 07:20 | wahanui | privet, gaetan_B |
| 07:28 | oha | speaking of oha vs koha, i usually add a "oha" comment when i change something so i can easily find it again. but with so many (k)oha strings this hasn't been working so well lately :) |
| 07:30 | dcook | hehe |
| 07:30 | Anyway, I better head out | |
| 07:30 | Good luck Eurofolk | |
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| 07:56 | fridolin | hie there |
| 07:57 | happy Easter Egg :) | |
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| 08:11 | magnus_breakfast | \o/ |
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| 08:27 | magnuse | kia ora cait |
| 08:28 | cait | hi magnuse |
| 08:28 | wahanui | kamelåså |
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| 09:18 | eythian | hi |
| 09:18 | wahanui | niihau, eythian |
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| 10:28 | magnuse | ashimema: do you think it would make sense to try and get ILL as it stands now into 17.05? i should probably ask atheia... |
| 10:34 | Feature Slush for 17.05 is May 5 2017 | |
| 10:34 | @later tell atheia do you think it would make sense to try and get ILL as it stands now into 17.05? | |
| 10:34 | huginn` | magnuse: The operation succeeded. |
| 10:52 | josef_moravec left #koha | |
| 10:55 | ashimema | I'd love to see it in :) |
| 10:55 | we use it in production allot | |
| 11:23 | * cait | waves |
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| 11:45 | magnuse | ashimema: ah, if you use it in production that should be an "argument" for getting it in |
| 11:45 | i have started to look at adapting my existing NNCIPP code, so I might be able to do a signoff pretty soon | |
| 11:47 | ashimema | :) |
| 11:47 | atheia will be super happy :) | |
| 11:49 | oha | we will be too! |
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| 11:57 | toins | hi all |
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| 12:01 | marcelr | hi #koha |
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| 12:03 | * oleonard | waves |
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| 12:21 | * mveron | waves |
| 12:21 | * cait | waves :) |
| 12:21 | mveron | oleonard: Bug 7550 - what do you think about? |
| 12:21 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7550 normal, P5 - low, ---, veron, Needs Signoff , Self checkout: limit display of patron image to logged-in patron |
| 12:22 | oleonard | I will take a look |
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| 13:18 | oleonard | mveron++ |
| 13:19 | mveron | :-) |
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| 13:22 | cait | mveron++ :) |
| 13:25 | oleonard | cait++ |
| 13:26 | * cait | didn't do much this release |
| 13:27 | oleonard | More than me :P |
| 13:28 | cait | revamping another website? :) |
| 13:29 | oleonard | Not a big project, just a lot of small ones |
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| 14:07 | marcelr | Joubu: hi; any chance to have another look at the qa changes on the upload reports 17669/18300 ? |
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| 14:17 | Mauricio_BR | Hello friends. Please help me with something. I am trying to locate in the database a table wich store the words searched in OPAC as anonymous user (no login in OPAC). Do you know where can I find it? |
| 14:19 | oleonard | Mauricio_BR: Where do you see it? |
| 14:20 | Mauricio_BR | i am looking for it in the tables of the database |
| 14:21 | i have the 16.05 ver. of Koha | |
| 14:21 | oleonard | Why are you looking for it? |
| 14:21 | Mauricio_BR | because i am working with datamining... |
| 14:21 | kidclamp | I don't think search history is sotred unless the user is logged in |
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| 14:22 | oleonard | Oh I misunderstood what you were asking |
| 14:22 | Thought you were asking about a text string | |
| 14:22 | Mauricio_BR | oh, sorry |
| 14:22 | my english is not good as you can see... haha | |
| 14:23 | oleonard | Better than my... Every other language which exists. |
| 14:23 | Mauricio_BR | XD |
| 14:24 | oleonard | Mauricio_BR: Have you looked at the 'search_history' table? I think kidclamp is right: I only see entries for logged-in users. |
| 14:24 | Mauricio_BR | yes |
| 14:25 | but in this table every record has a user field | |
| 14:25 | eythian | isn't there a special user it becomes if it's anonymous that's configured by a syspref? |
| 14:25 | Mauricio_BR | so it is bound to a user |
| 14:26 | there is the user with id 0 but it seems to be the admin | |
| 14:26 | oleonard | The AnonymousPatron pref says "(for anonymous suggestions and reading history)" |
| 14:28 | kidclamp | in the code it seems non-logged in history is stored for session, but not in db |
| 14:29 | we only save in the table if we have a logged in user | |
| 14:29 | Mauricio_BR | http://translate.koha-communit[…]l#AnonSuggestions |
| 14:30 | eythian | ah, suggestions not history. I misremembered. |
| 14:32 | Mauricio_BR | yes |
| 14:32 | is only for suggestions and/or reading history items. | |
| 14:33 | ok, thanks guys for the information. | |
| 14:33 | oleonard | Are searches logged by zebra? |
| 14:34 | kidclamp | could be a development though, seems possible in existing code to support saving as anonymous patron - but would want tied to syspref |
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| 14:40 | cait | i think it#s in a cookie before you log in? |
| 14:40 | the search history | |
| 14:40 | you could use a tool like piwik to get the searches | |
| 14:40 | from the urls | |
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| 14:50 | Mauricio_BR | Thank you Cait oleonard kidclamp ;) |
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| 15:11 | barton | good morning #koha! |
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| 16:39 | reiveune | bye |
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| 16:59 | oleonard | I'm surprised Koha doesn't have OpenSearch for the OPAC |
| 17:00 | I'm surprised I haven't wished Koha had OpenSearch for the OPAC enough yet to submit a patch. | |
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| 17:43 | magnuse | oleonard: i thought koha had opensearch? |
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| 17:44 | magnuse | is it something else that is used to show results from kete in koha and vise versa? |
| 17:44 | oleonard | It can provide OpenSearch results, if I recall correctly, but it doesn't enable auto-discovery of search to browsers |
| 17:44 | magnuse | ah |
| 17:44 | oleonard | So you can't add the OPAC as a search engine in Firefox |
| 17:44 | (easily) | |
| 17:44 | magnuse | gotcha! |
| 17:45 | patches are welcome ;-) | |
| 17:45 | oleonard | I hope to do so |
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| 17:56 | * magnuse | will try to squeeze in a signoff |
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| 19:52 | CrispyBran | https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=18450 |
| 19:52 | huginn` | 04Bug 18450: major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Renew in header bypasses hold block and renewal limits |
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| 20:00 | Joubu | I'd like a English native speaker to take a look at bug 18432 |
| 20:00 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=18432 trivial, P5 - low, ---, ephetteplace, Signed Off , Most code comments assume male gender |
| 20:00 | Joubu | to me it does not make sense to make these changes as it is only in code comments |
| 20:02 | CrispyBran | Joubu: really? Someone is going to waste programmer time with this? |
| 20:02 | Joubu | can be replaced by she or whateber |
| 20:02 | whatever | |
| 20:02 | but "he or she" just make things heavy to read IMO | |
| 20:02 | wahanui | and ever, amen. |
| 20:02 | * Joubu | trolls and goes out |
| 20:05 | * CrispyBran | thinks all references to librarians should be in animal or vegetable form. |
| 20:05 | * cait | waves |
| 20:06 | cait | CrispyBran: can you demonstrate this in a sentence? :) |
| 20:06 | CrispyBran | 'When a carrot manages the suggestion, it can set the status to "REJECTED" or "ACCEPTED".' |
| 20:06 | * cait | has to admit a 'he' in a comment doesn't stop me |
| 20:06 | cait | hm stop her |
| 20:06 | ? | |
| 20:06 | lol | |
| 20:07 | when a notice with the code ACCEPTED is set up, a message will be sent from the kitten to the patron. | |
| 20:07 | ? | |
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| 20:08 | cait | hm this vegetable needs to do laundry, brb |
| 20:09 | CrispyBran | :) |
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| 20:17 | CrispyBran | I am not sure how reference to a particular gender as an EXAMPLE proves to be problematic. If a programmer has issue with this, there are deeper issues that should be addressed, rather than taking offense at an example. |
| 20:19 | If we changed the language to female, I seriously doubt we'd lose any of the male programmers. Anyway, that's all the energy I can contribute to this topic. Moving on to problematic code. | |
| 20:47 | rangi | just use they |
| 20:48 | problem solved | |
| 20:48 | there is no reason to ever need to use gendered language in an example | |
| 20:52 | http://timesofindia.indiatimes[…]show/55395836.cms | |
| 20:52 | it is actually important | |
| 20:53 | in fact, im gonna put my time where my mouth is and do a follow up doing that | |
| 20:56 | cait | if we want to change it permanently, maybe we should also have a coding guideline |
| 20:56 | so people are more aware? | |
| 20:56 | i think some of the he/she/they problem is non native speakers not being aware of the neutral forms and how to use them | |
| 20:57 | i didn't know until not so long ago | |
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| 20:59 | rangi | yeah, māori has no gendered pronouns so it is easy |
| 20:59 | and in english, they can be singular or plural, so easy to always use that | |
| 21:00 | if we get the base neutral, individual communities can decide how to deal with the translations | |
| 21:01 | Joubu | the patch is only about comments, so no translation needed |
| 21:01 | apparently the problem does not appear on the interface | |
| 21:01 | rangi | cool, ill update it now(ish) |
| 21:07 | Joubu: thanks for the work on the onboarding tool | |
| 21:07 | and its good to see hea2 live too | |
| 21:08 | cait | Joubu++ |
| 21:08 | rangi | If the user logged in is the SCO user and they try to go out the SCO module, log the user out removing the CGISESSID cookie |
| 21:08 | i think that is less clunky than he or she eh? | |
| 21:09 | ill also fix the english | |
| 21:09 | to out of the SCO :-) | |
| 21:11 | Joubu | yep, apparently hea will not be backported this month, but should be next month :) |
| 21:11 | cait | i'd like to get the translators on it too - but will try to push it eraly |
| 21:12 | have to figure out the schema changes too i think | |
| 21:13 | Joubu | cait: do not worry with the schema changes, now we have check to avoid failures on upgrade |
| 21:13 | a simple c/p of the DB rev from master should be enough | |
| 21:13 | cait | just something i haven't done so far :) |
| 21:13 | oh? | |
| 21:13 | so i don't need to regenerate? | |
| 21:14 | alexbuckley | Yes thank you for the work on the onboarding tool Joubu |
| 21:14 | Joubu | ha dbic schema you meant, yes you will have |
| 21:14 | thx for the quick signoff alexbuckley :) | |
| 21:15 | alexbuckley | No worries :) |
| 21:15 | Joubu | just hope you did not signoff because you gave up! |
| 21:16 | have to run, see you tomorrow :) | |
| 21:16 | alexbuckley | Nope I did like your changes, better to see fewer screens by having the additional info about how to create things on the same page as the forms for example |
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| 21:23 | wizzyrea | confetti! |
| 21:23 | wahanui | confetti is, like, http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum[…]1qh8hleo1_400.gif |
| 21:23 | wizzyrea | more confetti! |
| 21:23 | wahanui | o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' |
| 21:24 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 21:25 | rangi | hi talljoy |
| 21:25 | talljoy | hiya rangi! |
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| 23:09 | CrispyBran | Joubu: when you create a patch and someone says it doesn't apply, what do I need to do on my end? |
| 23:09 | wizzyrea | rebase it, probably |
| 23:10 | (but it depends on the error message) | |
| 23:12 | CrispyBran | do I just to a git pull on the master, test my patch again and then obsolete and attach again? |
| 23:12 | wizzyrea | that might do it |
| 23:12 | you could also check out a clean master, and cherry pick your patch over | |
| 23:12 | if it works, yay | |
| 23:13 | reattach | |
| 23:13 | if not, find out why, and fix that. | |
| 23:13 | the approach really depends on how it's not applying | |
| 23:13 | fixing a "insufficient blobs" is way different from say, a merge conflict | |
| 23:14 | either way you'll know when you go to bz apply the patch on current master. | |
| 23:14 | so that's where to start. | |
| 23:22 | CrispyBran | Thanks for the info. |
| 23:22 | Have a good one. | |
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