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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:24 | ivan joined #koha | |
| 00:26 | tgoat joined #koha | |
| 02:36 | ivan | Having some SIP trouble on Ubuntu 14.04. |
| 02:36 | wizzyrea | oh? |
| 02:37 | ivan | Whenever I invoke a command that causes the ils object within MsgType.pm to be referenced I get: Can't call method "blah" on an undefined value... |
| 02:38 | For instance if I am doing a patron info request I would get: "Can't call method "find_patron" on an undefined value" | |
| 02:39 | logbot joined #koha | |
| 02:40 | ivan | I am trying to figure out how that object get's instantiated to begin with. A little tricky as I am new to perl |
| 02:41 | eythian | it's probably that it's failing to instantiate for some reason, e.g. not having data it needs or something |
| 02:41 | instanting is generally something like Class::Name->new(...data..) | |
| 02:42 | ivan | Ah, that wasn't my guess. Heh. Here is a line I was looking at in 'handle_patron_status': my $ils = $server->{ils}; |
| 02:42 | The $ils var is what seems to be undefined | |
| 02:43 | eythian | it's looking in the $server hashref for 'ils' |
| 02:43 | so that means that $server->{ils} isn't being set up by whatever sets up $server | |
| 02:44 | ivan | Ah, I see. Any idea what files to check for server? |
| 02:44 | eythian | not of the top of my head, but you should be able to see where it comes from in the code. |
| 02:44 | ivan | Ok checking... |
| 03:00 | I think netserver builds the server within the main file in a process_request method | |
| 03:00 | sub process_request { | |
| 03:00 | my $self = shift; | |
| 03:01 | self is then passed to my failing function where it is renamed to server | |
| 03:01 | dcook | eythian: Just heard back from OSDC :) |
| 03:01 | eythian | good news? |
| 03:01 | wahanui | good news is it looks like it's running properly. |
| 03:01 | dcook | I guess, haha |
| 03:01 | Looks like I'll have to come up with something to say | |
| 03:02 | eythian | heh |
| 03:04 | wizzyrea | ivan: you may want to check that you have defined your server correctly in the config file. |
| 03:04 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 03:05 | ivan | Heh, yeah I am sure I have defined something wrong there. It just all looks right to me so I am trying to figure out what I missed. |
| 03:05 | * dcook | is glad that the website saved his proposal |
| 03:06 | eythian | dcook: it's your only copy, eh? |
| 03:07 | ivan | wizzyrea: I am guessing you are referring to the <server-params tag in the config? |
| 03:15 | Here is my config: https://dpaste.de/Kva7 | |
| 03:16 | eythian | does anything get logged? |
| 03:20 | ivan | Yep, this is from a patron info request. |
| 03:20 | Can't call method "find_patron" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/SIP/Sip/MsgType.pm line 935. | |
| 03:20 | This is from an item info request. "Can't call method "check_inst_id" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/SIP/Sip/MsgType.pm line 1099." | |
| 03:20 | eythian | hmm |
| 03:20 | is there anything before that? | |
| 03:21 | ivan | No but I can get you a trace by running it in debug. One moment. |
| 03:21 | wizzyrea | I've seen this before... I know I have... |
| 03:24 | this may sound daft, but you do have borrower categories and a borrower or two defined? | |
| 03:24 | and a branch created that matches your institution ID | |
| 03:26 | ivan | Here is the trace for the find_patron error |
| 03:26 | https://dpaste.de/drCn | |
| 03:27 | We have borrow categories and the institution is the same as the branch code | |
| 03:27 | *borrower | |
| 03:29 | dcook | eythian: I think the only web-based one. Think the draft is on another hard drive. |
| 03:29 | eythian | ah right |
| 03:30 | ivan | I wonder if ILS is something that is set on succesfull login and not in server setup |
| 03:45 | This may help. Here is my telnet session I am testing with (for patron info). | |
| 03:45 | telnet localhost 6000 | |
| 03:46 | 9300CNsomeuser|COsomepass|somelibrary| | |
| 03:46 | 940 <--- The response | |
| 03:47 | [No output in log at this point] | |
| 03:48 | 6300020060329 201700 AOsomelibrary|AAbad_barcode| | |
| 03:49 | I have noticed that the Koha wiki shows a 941 response and I am getting 940. | |
| 03:50 | Looking at the spec though I don't know if that matters or not. | |
| 03:50 | http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/m[…]HvTSevTSeSSSSSS-- | |
| 03:50 | Oh and yeah, after that last command is when I get the error in the logs | |
| 03:51 | rangi | 41 means successful terminal login. 940 or getting dropped means failure. |
| 03:51 | so the user is not succesfully logging in, probably because the ILS module is not being instatiated | |
| 03:52 | aleisha joined #koha | |
| 03:52 | rangi | whats in the sip.err or sip.log files? |
| 03:52 | also try doing a perl -c on the files in SIP/ILS | |
| 03:53 | aleisha: 12890 is a good one to start with | |
| 03:53 | ivan | Ah, yeah I see that in the spec now. Under 94<ok>, 0 meaning fail I guess |
| 03:54 | rangi | aleisha: then 12882 |
| 03:54 | rangi joined #koha | |
| 04:01 | ivan | rangi: The only thing in the logs is an output of the config (on startup) and then the error I posted earlier |
| 04:01 | rangi | id try doing those perl -c then |
| 04:01 | i suspect there is a syntax error, that is causing the files to not load | |
| 04:01 | ivan | doing that now |
| 04:06 | I am compiling these by going into each folder and typing perl -c *.pm | |
| 04:06 | Is that right? | |
| 04:07 | rangi | yep |
| 04:07 | ivan | Everything seems to be checking out |
| 04:07 | rangi | something is causing the modules not to load, it could be a syntax error, it could be the config file, etc |
| 04:08 | ivan | Hmm... I will keep poking around |
| 04:10 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 04:26 | dcook | Hmm, I wonder how far along marcelr's XSLT stuff is going... |
| 04:26 | Applying a XSLT to incoming records could be pretty cool.. | |
| 04:26 | That would actually do exactly what I need.. | |
| 04:28 | bug 6536 | |
| 04:28 | wahanui | somebody said bug 6536 was ready for takeoff |
| 04:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6536 new feature, P3, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Z3950 Search Enhancements: SRU targets and additional XSLT processing |
| 04:28 | dcook | Sweet as |
| 04:32 | carmenh joined #koha | |
| 04:33 | rangi | aleisha: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12729 |
| 04:33 | huginn | 04Bug 12729: normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Overdue items won't show as overdue in red in circulation |
| 04:33 | rangi | might be testable |
| 04:34 | BigRig_ joined #koha | |
| 04:41 | gmcharlt | @quote random |
| 04:41 | huginn | gmcharlt: Quote #272: "jcamins: THIS IS A SECURITY RISK -- no kidding. It's Windows." (added by wizzyrea at 02:18 AM, August 29, 2013) |
| 04:43 | dcook | @quote random |
| 04:43 | huginn | dcook: Quote #190: "<jcamins> Hehe. Guillotine: the revolutionary card game you win by getting a head <asaurat> lol <asaurat> I mean mdr" (added by slef at 03:46 PM, February 28, 2012) |
| 04:43 | dcook | hehe |
| 04:45 | carmenh joined #koha | |
| 04:51 | gmcharlt_ joined #koha | |
| 04:51 | magnuse joined #koha | |
| 04:52 | markvand1nborre joined #koha | |
| 04:53 | denials joined #koha | |
| 04:54 | pug joined #koha | |
| 04:55 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 04:55 | khall joined #koha | |
| 05:09 | ivan | rangi, eythian, wizzyrea: I found some more logs for it in syslog. I think something is wrong with my user.? |
| 05:09 | https://dpaste.de/AxRE | |
| 05:10 | rangi | does that user and pass and library exist in teh config |
| 05:10 | and does it exist in koha? | |
| 05:15 | ivan | Ughh... One of the staff at my library had deleted my API user. |
| 05:15 | * ivan | cries |
| 05:15 | rangi | that'd do it |
| 05:16 | ivan | Well login is working now, imagine that?! |
| 05:16 | rangi | i usually make them be something like |
| 05:16 | DO NOT DELETE ME | |
| 05:16 | sometimes they still do :) | |
| 05:16 | ivan | Yeah.. that's pretty close to the new name |
| 05:18 | Well I guess the only useful bit out of this for others is that if you get an error complaining about ils being undefined you are likely getting a 940 error. Which means you are not logging in, which (in Ubuntu) is logged in syslog not sip*.log. | |
| 05:20 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 05:24 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:30 | dcook | Well, this is interesting. Sort of. http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd887.html |
| 05:30 | @marc 887 | |
| 05:30 | huginn | dcook: Contains data from non-MARC records for which there are no corresponding MARC 21 fields. Used when converting non-MARC records into the MARC 21 format. (Repeatable) [a,2] |
| 05:31 | dcook | I suppose that's one way of keeping data that doesn't convert easily |
| 05:35 | eythian | ivan: the real solution will be to have SIP say something obvious, like "user xyz doesn't exist as specified in the config" |
| 05:36 | oh, interesting indeed | |
| 05:37 | ivan | eythian, oh yes that would have been blessed indeed. |
| 05:37 | eythian | if you want to turn your diagnosis time into good, make a patch :) |
| 05:38 | or even just report a bug describing anything. Maybe someone with free time who uses SIP will see it and fix it. | |
| 05:38 | * cait | waves |
| 05:38 | eythian | hi cait, go back to bed. |
| 05:38 | ivan | I will certainly consider it. At least a bug report. I failed on the wiki update with my last issue but maybe this time. |
| 05:38 | cait | wish i could .) |
| 05:43 | pug left #koha | |
| 05:52 | dcook | @later tell marcelr have time to answer a few questions about XSLTs and Z39.50? |
| 05:52 | huginn | dcook: The operation succeeded. |
| 05:54 | dcook | Ahh, figured it out... |
| 06:04 | ashimema | @later tell wizzyrea fraid not, we haven't got our overdrive problem sorted. Basically we want to be able to demo koha's support for it tomorrow, but can't get any reply from Overdrive regarding a demo account. |
| 06:04 | huginn | ashimema: The operation succeeded. |
| 06:04 | ashimema | morning all |
| 06:04 | eythian | hi ashimema |
| 06:04 | ashimema | Hey eythian, hows it hangin' |
| 06:05 | eythian | pretty good, yourself? |
| 06:05 | ashimema | Yeah, not bad.. |
| 06:05 | been battling with packages the last few hours.. | |
| 06:05 | collegue keep throwing 'best practice' questions at me.. problem is I haven't worked out th best practice yet ;) | |
| 06:06 | eythian | heh |
| 06:06 | ashimema | for instance.. adding per instance cronjobs.. (like background loading of patrons on a regular basis) |
| 06:06 | eythian | I planned a talk on best practices for a kohacon, but didn't end up going. Though I think rangi gave it in my stead. |
| 06:07 | * dcook | seems to recall rangi doing a best practice talk at kohacon13 |
| 06:07 | dcook | ashimema must not have taken notes :P |
| 06:07 | ashimema | Yeah.. his best practices talk was pretty good.. but it only touched the basics.. not going into further detail |
| 06:07 | dcook | true true |
| 06:07 | ashimema | I took notes.. i fact.. I stole a copy of the slides ;) |
| 06:07 | dcook | Background loading of patrons sounds interesting |
| 06:08 | ashimema | it's the 'extra bits' i'm now working on.. |
| 06:09 | Well, i've been working on a re-write of the staff client patron import tools to add a nice cli version (but that's not ready yet), so we're using the not especially nice script from liblime that khall recently refactored.. | |
| 06:09 | but it's the wrapper script that moves the files round and creates logs etc that I'm struggling to come up with a best practice for.. | |
| 06:09 | like.. where to put said script.. | |
| 06:10 | where to call said script.. (as crontab within koha-shell for instance.. or in cron.daily/koha-instance) | |
| 06:10 | any thoughts eythian? | |
| 06:10 | eythian | this is custom to your environment? |
| 06:10 | ashimema | it is for now.. |
| 06:11 | but I imagine it'll be usefull for community once I've narrowed it down a bit ;) | |
| 06:11 | eythian | hmm. So, you're writing something that'll look somewhere for a file each day, process it, and then do something with the file that it processed to get it out of the way? |
| 06:12 | and the config will be similar but slightly different for each one? | |
| 06:12 | *each instance | |
| 06:12 | ashimema | the wrapper script basically grabs the file via sftp, stuffs it somewhere for the import to run upon it, then after the import has run, it renames the file, keeps it for a week so you can go back to it if you need to... and after a week cleans up after itself. |
| 06:12 | yup.. exactly ;) | |
| 06:13 | dcook | Mmm, I know about you mean about best practices, ashimema |
| 06:13 | I keep thinking about reviving the oai harvester code, but not sure the best way to do it | |
| 06:13 | Whether to store the harvested records as temp files or in the db | |
| 06:13 | ashimema | there's not really any clear consensus on how to deal with the 'extra bits' using packages. |
| 06:13 | dcook | To insert them directly, to put them in import_records, or have another table.. |
| 06:13 | eythian | ashimema: OK, so the sftp thing will have to be custom configuration. |
| 06:14 | ashimema | actually.. I lied.. in this case.. the customer is sftping to the server in chroot/home/customername ;) |
| 06:14 | eythian | I'd do that by having a "pre-process" shell script in /etc/koha/sites/*/something.sh that fetches the file, puts it somewhere, and returns the filename with path. |
| 06:14 | oh, OK | |
| 06:14 | ashimema | but yeah.. I imagine the 'wrapper script' will always need to be slighlty custom |
| 06:15 | eythian | in that case I'd have /etc/koha/sites/*/borrower_import.conf that contains "filename=/chroot/home/.../file.csv", the processing script uses that, and then some standard rename to rename it or whatever. |
| 06:15 | ashimema | you'd go for /etc/koha/sites would you? I was thinking /var/lib/koha/instance/scripts |
| 06:15 | eythian | (or something along those lines) |
| 06:16 | I'd have a look to whatever the good practice for ifup/ifdown scripts is. | |
| 06:16 | I'm not 100% sure what that is. | |
| 06:17 | ashimema | oh.. hadn't thought to look at ifup/ifdown.. that's a good idea ;) |
| 06:18 | eythian | I tend to think of /var/ for be where the application can make day-to-day changes of its own data, but /etc/ where configuration specifically goes, even if that config is a small shell script. |
| 06:18 | rc.d-esque | |
| 06:18 | "for be"... | |
| 06:18 | "for being" | |
| 06:20 | ashimema | cheers |
| 06:20 | that certainly helps | |
| 06:21 | eythian | really, the email enabled/disabled flag should be in /etc/koha/sites/*/ rather than in /var/koha/... |
| 06:21 | ashimema | I hadn't noticed that before.. but yeah.. |
| 06:21 | I agree.. | |
| 06:22 | eythian | I just can't be bothered writing the migration code to fix it :) |
| 06:22 | ashimema | We also add custom xslt sheets allot.. |
| 06:22 | for this I've gone the route of adding a /www/opac/en/xslt dir within /var/lib/koha/instance | |
| 06:22 | then added a 'custom' alias to the instance vhost | |
| 06:23 | does that make sense to you? | |
| 06:23 | haha.. | |
| 06:23 | we should also probably stick most of the koha runtime code in opt instead of usr ;) | |
| 06:24 | should we not ;) | |
| 06:24 | eythian | all our sites have a publicly accessible /var/www/files/site, we've started putting XSLT in there. |
| 06:25 | it's part of our plan to allow end-user-modifiable XSLT. | |
| 06:25 | ashimema | seems sensible enough |
| 06:25 | likewise | |
| 06:25 | eythian | it's also where their theming and such goes. |
| 06:25 | if we got it into upstream koha, /var would be the right place. | |
| 06:25 | ashimema | probably /var/www/files is probably the more sensible place |
| 06:25 | eythian | /usr is fine for the code. |
| 06:26 | ashimema | do you run into any issues with https and custom xslt's? |
| 06:26 | eythian | I don't think so |
| 06:26 | ashimema | rather.. how do you use the xslt's in /var/www/files? |
| 06:28 | eythian | I think they're just referenced by file path. I'm not totally sure, wizzyrea is doing that bit. |
| 06:28 | ashimema | k |
| 06:28 | * dcook | likes this idea of end-user modificable XSLT |
| 06:28 | ashimema | oh.. random question.. |
| 06:28 | wahanui | i think random question.. is there anywhere in koha that uses editable datatables? |
| 06:29 | ashimema | you guys donw have an Overdrive account for demo purposes do you? |
| 06:29 | eythian | nope |
| 06:29 | ashimema | k |
| 06:29 | eythian | we should get one |
| 06:31 | alright, time for me to go. Later all. | |
| 06:34 | dcook | laterz eythian |
| 06:35 | Thanks for the OSDC advice | |
| 06:35 | cait | bye eythian and dcook |
| 06:37 | dcook | leaving, cait? |
| 06:37 | cait | ah i misread |
| 06:37 | but yeah :) leaving to go to work in a few moments | |
| 06:37 | dcook | Well, I'll be around for a little bit |
| 06:38 | Might actually leave work on time to take care of some errands though ;) | |
| 06:38 | cait | :) |
| 06:38 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 06:38 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:38 | cait | hi reiveune |
| 06:39 | * magnuse | waves |
| 06:39 | reiveune | bonjour cait magnuse |
| 06:40 | cait left #koha | |
| 06:41 | pug joined #koha | |
| 06:43 | magnuse | bonjour reiveune |
| 06:44 | oops, now i scared cait away... | |
| 06:46 | dcook | heya reiveune, magnuse |
| 06:46 | reiveune | \o_ dcook |
| 06:48 | pug left #koha | |
| 06:50 | ashimema | breakfast time me thinks. |
| 06:52 | dcook | Mmm, I could go for breakfast |
| 06:53 | * magnuse | just finished breakfast, with homemade plum jam |
| 06:54 | * ashimema | jealous |
| 06:55 | just has ceral | |
| 06:55 | ashimema | s/ceral/cereal |
| 06:56 | * dcook | had chocolate cookies for breakfast |
| 06:57 | dcook | double chocolate actually |
| 06:57 | ... | |
| 06:57 | Trying to get my silliness out of the way before I have a kid and just look like a hypocrite? :p | |
| 06:57 | ashimema | haha.. |
| 06:58 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 07:00 | magnuse | dcook: good plan :-) |
| 07:00 | edveal left #koha | |
| 07:04 | cait joined #koha | |
| 07:05 | dcook | Hmm, didn't quite leave on time |
| 07:05 | wb cait | |
| 07:05 | cait | heh |
| 07:05 | dcook | hehe. Thanks, magnuse. |
| 07:05 | cait | dcook: go home! |
| 07:05 | dcook | Nah, need to go to the vet, I think. |
| 07:06 | ashimema | you got to work quick cait |
| 07:08 | cait | only a short walk |
| 07:09 | ashimema | ack.. I'm grappling with a poorly designed database schema again.. |
| 07:09 | my head hurts. | |
| 07:13 | dcook | always fun times, ashimema |
| 07:14 | ashimema | I've decided I really hate this guys programming.. |
| 07:15 | any idea how I can walk down an 'Adjacency List' in mysql to get all nodes from any arbitrary node given that the heirachy can be any arbitrary depth. | |
| 07:15 | in php | |
| 07:15 | or sql | |
| 07:15 | * ashimema | hates php |
| 07:15 | cait | ? |
| 07:15 | i don't even understand what you are trying to do | |
| 07:16 | ashimema | one table contains elements.. each element has an ID and a Parent column.. the Parent column contains the ID of the Parent in the Heirachy. |
| 07:16 | so you only have child to parent relationships.. | |
| 07:17 | magnuse | that sounds like fun! |
| 07:17 | ashimema | I need to walk from the top of the heirachy down to get all possible children, grandchildren and grand grand children to an abitrary level of any said parent. |
| 07:17 | dcook | Wow... |
| 07:17 | ashimema | understand now cait? |
| 07:17 | yeah.. It's a properly nasty problem.. | |
| 07:18 | that will lead to all sorts of sql pain.. both in writing the sql and in executing it :'( | |
| 07:18 | cait | .. there there? |
| 07:18 | dcook | hehe |
| 07:18 | cait | could you do... a select... and when it returns results... do another on the ids found... and repeat that until no results come back? |
| 07:18 | dcook | I don't even know if you could do that with SQL... |
| 07:19 | cait | yeah i think you probably need some programming |
| 07:19 | dcook | Actually, I guess you could do it with SQL |
| 07:20 | ashimema | if you can work out how many level you need to traverse first.. then you can left join on self level number of times.. |
| 07:20 | but I don't tihnk there's any way to tell how many levels without already executing a massive loop.. | |
| 07:20 | dcook | yeah, I forgot about the multiple levels.. |
| 07:20 | ashimema | so I think your right.. I need to loop |
| 07:20 | best go did out my php manual.. | |
| 07:20 | I hate php | |
| 07:21 | dcook | It's not the best |
| 07:21 | ashimema | I can see i'm going to end up with loops inside of loops to an arbitrary depth.. that scares me |
| 07:21 | dcook | Hmm |
| 07:22 | Couldn't you do a select on all elements without a parent | |
| 07:22 | Then iterate downward from there? | |
| 07:22 | ashimema | maybe I should just arbitrarily cap the number of downward hops a user can make. |
| 07:22 | dcook | Do they ever see the full hierarchy? |
| 07:23 | ashimema | They do.. thouhg I can't find the code for that anywhere either |
| 07:24 | dcook | foreach element without a parent - find the elements with this element as its parent, foreach of these elements - find the element with this element as its parent, foreach of these elements... |
| 07:24 | I suppose you could accidentally wind up in an infinite loop | |
| 07:24 | ashimema | yup |
| 07:24 | dcook | If there are no elements without a parent |
| 07:24 | Or yeah... if elements cross reference each other as parents | |
| 07:25 | Another reason why hierarchies suck | |
| 07:25 | Handy in some cases of course, but dang | |
| 07:25 | Ok, dcook, leave work | |
| 07:26 | ashimema | have a nice evening dcook |
| 07:27 | magnuse | have fun dcook |
| 07:31 | cait | bye dcook |
| 07:37 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 07:46 | dcook | cheers :) |
| 07:54 | atheia joined #koha | |
| 07:54 | magnuse | hiya atheia |
| 07:56 | * cait | waves at atheia |
| 08:12 | Joubu | hi #koha |
| 08:14 | cait | hi Joubu |
| 08:16 | magnuse | bonjour Joubu |
| 08:16 | @wunder boo | |
| 08:16 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 14.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on September 09, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:16 | magnuse | @wunder marseille |
| 08:16 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 24.2°C (10:11 AM CEST on September 09, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa (Rising). |
| 08:20 | cait | Joubu: I did a bit of QA yesterday and was looking at the major bugs in the list - do you think 12669 could be QA'd with the explanation from Rolando? |
| 08:22 | Joubu | cait: I would like to get another qa pov for this one |
| 08:22 | cait | makes sense |
| 08:23 | it's a bit confusing | |
| 08:23 | atheia | oh — belated hello, magnuse, cait. |
| 08:24 | Thanks for your comments on the previous issue patch cait++. I will hopefully get some time soon to finish off those changes. | |
| 08:24 | Joubu | cait: I'm not sure it's the right way to fix the issue. And the issue is not fixed everywhere (but could be a first step) |
| 08:24 | atheia | (prbly not dbic stuff though) |
| 08:26 | cait | Joubu: maybe there exists a best practice or something? I cannot say i fully understand it, although I looked at the page linked |
| 08:31 | Joubu | cait: yes, I need more time to know exactly how to fix that. But it's worth someone else has a look. |
| 08:32 | cait | maybe if there is time left at today's meeting you coudl mention it? |
| 08:32 | I won't make it :( | |
| 08:44 | ztajoli joined #koha | |
| 08:51 | magnuse | hiya ztajoli |
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| 09:58 | gerundio | hi, good morning |
| 09:59 | any idea on what's the expected time between bug sign off and QA testing? | |
| 10:03 | cait | there is no rule there really |
| 10:03 | it depends on a lot of factors | |
| 10:03 | a easy bug fix will make it faster than a big rewrite | |
| 10:04 | also something lots of people are interested inmight go faster a feature that not many people are aware how to use | |
| 10:11 | Joubu | gerundio: What bugs are you waiting for? |
| 10:12 | gerundio | http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12669 |
| 10:12 | huginn | 04Bug 12669: major, P5 - low, ---, rolando.isidoro, Signed Off , "Template process failed: undef error - Invalid local time for date in time zone" |
| 10:12 | gerundio | its a minor bug with a trivial patch |
| 10:13 | that might explain it | |
| 10:13 | Joubu | gerundio: Katrin and me told about this patch this morning. |
| 10:13 | I would like to get another QA pov, I am not sure the patch you submited is the best way to fix the issue. | |
| 10:15 | gerundio: it could worth to provide unit tests too. | |
| 10:18 | gerundio | Joubu, have you discussed any alternative solutions? |
| 10:19 | Joubu | no |
| 10:39 | gerundio | have you given any thought about my reply to the solution you proposed? |
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| 10:57 | Joubu | gerundio: I agree with your answer, my solution is not the right one. |
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| 12:25 | mveron | Hi #koha |
| 12:26 | oleonard | Hi mveron and everyone |
| 12:27 | mveron | Hi oleonard and everyone :-) |
| 12:27 | * cait | waves |
| 12:27 | * mveron | would like to have a comment of native and non-nativespekers on Bug 12882 (Wording) |
| 12:27 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12882 trivial, P5 - low, ---, veron, Signed Off , Translations: Resolve ambiguity for word "checked" in Z39.50 server administration |
| 12:28 | mveron | Hi cait :-) |
| 12:28 | speakers | |
| 12:30 | cait | oleonard: we are looking in your direction... well I am :) |
| 12:30 | * magnuse | looks at oleonard too |
| 12:31 | * oleonard | investigates |
| 12:32 | oleonard | We could ask druthb but she only speaks Texan now. |
| 12:33 | druthb | Whut y'all need, now? |
| 12:34 | oleonard | I think "Searched by default" is good for the label on the add/edit form. I'm not sure about the table column header. |
| 12:38 | I could also see using "Active" as the table header and "Active (searched by default)" in the add/edit form | |
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| 12:39 | cait | oleonard: not sure about active - might appear in other context.... wonderng if there can be different translations, although i can't think of one right now |
| 12:39 | maybe selected? we use that for the checkboxes in tables | |
| 12:39 | select all / unselect | |
| 12:42 | and while we are talking... could we differentiate term too? we ran into this a few days ago - term (like a search term) and term (like a time span in course reserves) - it's pretty confusing | |
| 12:42 | oleonard | I'll ask the same question as I asked yesterday about another ambiguity bug: Isn't it necessary to change only one of the two instances? Can't we resolve this by changing the suggestions template and leaving the Z39.50 one alone? |
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| 12:43 | tcohen | morning |
| 12:43 | cait | oleonard: checked is one of the database status for suggestions, not sure if it wuld be confusing to change it |
| 12:43 | morning tcohen | |
| 12:43 | tcohen | hi |
| 12:44 | cait | oleonard: and it appears in a lot of places |
| 12:44 | mveron | oleonard: I had a look at the suggestions, it is much more complicated to change it there. Authorized values involved. |
| 12:44 | oleonard | I'm also inclined to change the suggestions terminology because "checked" is not very clear in English. |
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| 12:44 | gerundio | cait, oleonard: enabled? |
| 12:45 | oleonard | Enabled is good, for Z39.50 admin. |
| 12:45 | cait | i wonder if people will think it's to turn on/off the search option totally |
| 12:45 | mveron | cait: agree... |
| 12:45 | wahanui | i heard agree was not the best approach |
| 12:45 | cait | so it doesn't appear at all on the form |
| 12:46 | oleonard | I don't even know what the suggestions "checked" status is for. |
| 12:46 | cait | oleonard: i always train it as 'use it as you want, it has no feature i know of linked to it' |
| 12:46 | all the other status have a meaning in the workflow or generate an email, but checked not i think | |
| 12:46 | nengard | I know what it's for!! |
| 12:47 | cait | :) |
| 12:47 | nengard | big libraries have multiple people in the acq department. So first someone 'checks' the suggestion and edits it to make it right (isbn, title, author) and then passes is to the official decider and then that person marks it accepted or rejected |
| 12:48 | oleonard | The Decider! |
| 12:48 | "verified" would work well in that context. | |
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| 12:48 | * mveron | agrees again... |
| 12:48 | mveron | wahanui? |
| 12:48 | wahanui | mveron? |
| 12:49 | mveron | Agree... |
| 12:49 | wahanui | agree is not the best approach |
| 12:49 | mveron | :-) |
| 12:50 | cait | verified sounds nice |
| 12:50 | mveron | Preselect for z39.50 admin? |
| 12:50 | * druthb | blames cait |
| 12:50 | cait | oh preselect is also nice |
| 12:50 | what why me? | |
| 12:50 | tcohen | cait: i'll probably miss part 2 |
| 12:51 | * druthb | hugs cait, since she took the blame. |
| 12:51 | cait | part 2 is really really late here, but i can try |
| 12:51 | i will see who is there and make someone chair maybe :) | |
| 12:52 | magnuse | oops, cait has found the secret spell that turns people into chairs! |
| 12:52 | cait | hmpf |
| 12:52 | you will be the first! :) | |
| 12:53 | * magnuse | will miss every meeting on the current schedule - it's either kiddotime or sleeptime |
| 12:53 | magnuse | oh noes |
| 12:53 | cait | oh |
| 12:53 | druthb | magnuse would be a great big chair, tall and big like the Iron Throne, but more comfy. |
| 12:55 | * druthb | would be that strange overstuffed love seat with a bizarre floral print, that no one sits on because it's got lumpy stuffing, and is obscenely uncomfortable. |
| 12:55 | magnuse | :-) |
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| 12:58 | * magnuse | waves at talljoy and NateC, before wandering off |
| 12:58 | NateC | hiya magnuse! |
| 13:00 | talljoy | hiya magnuse |
| 13:00 | cait | druthb: what about me? |
| 13:00 | druthb | Hm. |
| 13:01 | * druthb | thinks |
| 13:01 | oleonard | Regarding the potential difficulty of replacing "checked" in suggestions: Any place where we are displaying the value "checked" directly from the database should be replaced for i18n purposes anyway. |
| 13:01 | druthb | A nice comfy wingback, the best place in the house to snuggle up and read a book. |
| 13:02 | oleonard | ...and it doesn't look to me at first glance like we are doing that in the staff client template anyway |
| 13:03 | nengard: Any opinion on the idea of replacing "Checked" with "Verified" in suggestions management? | |
| 13:03 | nengard | that's fine with me |
| 13:04 | ashimema | remind me.. what time is the meeting again? |
| 13:05 | oleonard | Just under two hours from now isn't it? |
| 13:05 | ashimema | cool. |
| 13:05 | i didn't miss it then ;) | |
| 13:05 | cait | druthb: :) |
| 13:06 | oleonard | Oh sorry, yes you missed it ashimema we agreed on using 5 tabs for indentation from now on. |
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| 13:07 | cait | oleonard: i thought it was tab space tab space tab? |
| 13:08 | oleonard | cait: That's only on odd-numbered days |
| 13:08 | cait | aaaah right. |
| 13:09 | mveron | On even days we indentation is prohibited... |
| 13:09 | * mveron | does not like to go to the dentist |
| 13:10 | cait | mveron: crossing fingers... i don't like it either |
| 13:10 | mveron | :-) |
| 13:11 | cait | tcohen: can you answer a few questions about facetting maybe? |
| 13:11 | tcohen | i can |
| 13:12 | have 4 spare minutes | |
| 13:12 | (meeting) | |
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| 13:12 | cait | oh |
| 13:12 | ok, i will try to be fast | |
| 13:12 | i think we show the more link after x facets | |
| 13:12 | for some of the facets | |
| 13:12 | tcohen | yes |
| 13:13 | cait | it seems they appear alphabetically? |
| 13:13 | so not sorted by number of occurences... should have seen that the first time i looked at it | |
| 13:13 | is that something that is going to change with the new facets? or just something we can think about later? | |
| 13:14 | i think with a bigger result set being looked at, the list could get quite long and the first alphabetic rsults might not be so helpful | |
| 13:14 | tcohen | i'd say that should be an enh, after the patch is pushed |
| 13:14 | the code that does the sorting, i havent touched it yet | |
| 13:14 | cait | ok, so alphabetically, up to 5, then the more link |
| 13:14 | cool | |
| 13:14 | i had a library asking how it worked now and didn'T want to tell them somethig wrong :) | |
| 13:14 | tcohen | i've just changed the code that feeds the data structure |
| 13:14 | (which I have preserved to make it easier to transition) | |
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| 13:15 | cait | hey! how was your exam drojf? |
| 13:16 | mveron | hi drojf :-) |
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| 13:54 | huginn | New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12587: (qa followup) report name consistency <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]db15a066c8ef48f9d> / Bug 12587 - Improve output of filter information on patrons with the most checkouts... <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]be5d63d3337b8ddd8> / Bug 12849 - fix URLs in sent lists <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/ |
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| 14:00 | francharb | Hello all! |
| 14:00 | tcohen | hi francharb |
| 14:16 | cait | bye all |
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| 14:26 | * mveron | has to head away |
| 14:26 | mveron | bye #koha |
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| 15:01 | ztajoli | hi |
| 15:01 | Joubu | new critical bug in the qa queue, see bug 12891 |
| 15:01 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12891 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , NewOrder does not return ordernumber |
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| 15:02 | reiveune | bye |
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| 15:02 | ztajoli | dev meeting ? |
| 15:03 | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_9_September_2014 | |
| 15:03 | tcohen | ztajoli: yes |
| 15:03 | will grab a coffee and will be back in a couple minutes | |
| 15:07 | #startmeeting Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1 | |
| 15:07 | huginn | Meeting started Tue Sep 9 15:07:58 2014 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:07 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 15:07 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 15:07 | huginn | The meeting name has been set to 'koha_developer_irc_meeting__9_september_2014___part_1' |
| 15:08 | tcohen | #topic Introductions |
| 15:08 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 15:08 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 15:08 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries |
| 15:08 | tcohen | please introduce yourselves using #info name |
| 15:08 | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba | |
| 15:08 | clrh | #info Claire Hernandez, developments manager at BibLibre |
| 15:08 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 15:09 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre |
| 15:10 | tcohen | ok, moving on |
| 15:10 | #topic RM 3.18 comments | |
| 15:10 | Topic for #koha is now RM 3.18 comments (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 15:10 | tcohen | #info facet retrieval from Zebra is complete, feedback is needed |
| 15:11 | Joubu | good job tcohen :) |
| 15:11 | ztajoli | #info Zeno Tajoli, Cineca (Italy)ù |
| 15:12 | thd | tcohen: what is the bug number for that |
| 15:12 | ? | |
| 15:12 | tcohen | thd, was looking for it |
| 15:12 | khall | #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions |
| 15:12 | Joubu | bug 11232 |
| 15:12 | wahanui | i heard bug 11232 was relevant in the medium term, as one of the side effects of using Zebra to calculate facets will be to make library facets both more correct as well as easier to tweak |
| 15:12 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Retrieve facets from Zebra |
| 15:12 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe |
| 15:12 | tcohen | #info facets from zebra is needs sign off, bug 11232 |
| 15:13 | i have added a new syntax for facets specification | |
| 15:13 | nengard | #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions |
| 15:13 | tcohen | https://github.com/tomascohen/[…]62e561a8631f103f2 |
| 15:13 | ^^^^^ there you can see the syntax | |
| 15:13 | ashimema | fantastic work there tcohen |
| 15:14 | tcohen | ashimema: we need to first see how it develops |
| 15:14 | then drink some beers | |
| 15:14 | :-P | |
| 15:14 | ok, next | |
| 15:14 | ashimema | deffo |
| 15:14 | thd | tcohen: Is this still bound to subfield a? |
| 15:15 | tcohen | thd: no |
| 15:15 | thd | ah no |
| 15:15 | Joubu | tcohen: it's worth some beers, definitely ;) |
| 15:15 | thd | yes I just saw the good part of the code |
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| 15:15 | tcohen | thd: https://github.com/tomascohen/[…]1ec44daada0a85595 |
| 15:15 | thd | Great tcohen++ |
| 15:15 | tcohen | UNIMARC is better as an example |
| 15:15 | barton | #info Barton Chittenden, ByWater Solutions, Louisville, KY, USA |
| 15:16 | atheia | #info Alex Sassmannshausen, PTFS Europe, UK |
| 15:16 | tcohen | people that tested it already proposed future enhancements |
| 15:16 | ok, next topic | |
| 15:16 | wahanui | next topic is a tricky one... |
| 15:17 | tcohen | we didn't know how to call it |
| 15:17 | ashimema | Certainly there are enhancements to come.. but this is certainly an awesome start! |
| 15:17 | tcohen | but here we go |
| 15:17 | #topic General technical discussion | |
| 15:17 | Topic for #koha is now General technical discussion (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 15:17 | tcohen | This discussion might as well take place on the list |
| 15:17 | #subtopic To mock or not to mock...? | |
| 15:17 | heh | |
| 15:18 | ashimema | that is the question... |
| 15:18 | Joubu | discussion already started on trello: https://trello.com/c/vsrkdpvv/[…]t-is-the-question |
| 15:18 | * ashimema | couldn't resist |
| 15:19 | tcohen | as i wrote on trello, I think unit tests should be fully mocked |
| 15:19 | and integration tests should be written for using the DB | |
| 15:19 | ashimema | What are people thoughts generally.. I'm with tcohen and beleive if possible we should mock.. using db is as a last resort in my mind. |
| 15:19 | tcohen | the problem is we don't have infinite time to do it |
| 15:20 | Joubu | It's not a problem not to mock. I think the main problem is to be data agnostic, isn't it? |
| 15:20 | tcohen | yes |
| 15:20 | ashimema | I suppose they're two questions then.. |
| 15:21 | ztajoli | I have the same opinion of tcohen. |
| 15:21 | ashimema | data agnostic is fine.. so long as you have a sql server running to push randomised data to.. |
| 15:21 | thd | You cannot always have a good test which is really data agnostic. |
| 15:21 | ztajoli | data agnostic is good goal |
| 15:22 | atheia | Definitely being data agnostic would be good. The tests that I wrote using mock were a little painful, but I'm not sure how else I would have tested. |
| 15:22 | ashimema | do we ever need to test without a sql server on the system at all? |
| 15:22 | atheia | So I'd rather go with mock than not to mock for unit tests :-) |
| 15:22 | thd | Testing some behaviour requires data which will elicit the behaviour. |
| 15:22 | ztajoli | all data to test inside the test |
| 15:22 | ashimema | (that's a question for the package builders out there.. currently I know packages build without running ANY db_dependant tests.. the question is why?) |
| 15:22 | ztajoli | clearly you need an sql working |
| 15:22 | jcamins | ashimema: because when building a package there's no database available. |
| 15:23 | tcohen | ashimema: during packages build, we run non db-dependent tests |
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| 15:24 | ashimema | so.. in the packages case.. it needs to be completely mocked.. not just data agnostic if we want it to get tested.. |
| 15:24 | that's my point of question | |
| 15:24 | thd | Is this question concerning building or patch testing? |
| 15:24 | tcohen | the thing is using the DB might prevent us from detecting side effects |
| 15:24 | our tests should be organized in a way they could be run randomly | |
| 15:24 | and mocked | |
| 15:25 | ztajoli | I think that our standard db_dependant test could be: 1)insert data in sql server 2)test 3)drop data |
| 15:25 | tcohen | and probably leave db-dependent tests to jenkins or smth like that |
| 15:25 | ashimema | In which case.. do we need a TestBuilder like module that mocks instead of pushing random data to the database? |
| 15:25 | thd | tcohen: What side effects would you have in a Db which would be missed there but caught by mocking? |
| 15:26 | tcohen | thd: a test might be writing data that is making the next test to pass, just because the data is there |
| 15:26 | * ashimema | is playing devils advocate.. |
| 15:27 | thd | tcohen: Refreshing would be required then but that would add to the overhead. |
| 15:27 | Joubu | Maybe the question is "what is the next step?", not "what could be the ideal situation?" |
| 15:27 | thd | s/Refreshing/Dropping and starting again/ |
| 15:27 | tcohen | ashimema: algorithmically mocking a package's API is harder than checking foreign key constrains, i guess |
| 15:27 | ashimema | Joubu++ |
| 15:28 | Joubu | Yohann proposed a way to generate random data, to be data agnostic, (see TestBuilder). |
| 15:28 | ashimema | So.. I'm happy to say that db_dependant have their place.. |
| 15:28 | thd | tcohen: Is this question concerning building or patch testing? |
| 15:28 | Joubu | Who has already took a look?? |
| 15:28 | clrh | me ;) |
| 15:29 | tcohen | thd: patch testing |
| 15:29 | ashimema | so we agree that instead of 'To mock or not to Mock' the question is 'Should be be data agnostic' and the answer to that is obviosly yes. |
| 15:29 | bag | morning (sorry to be late |
| 15:29 | #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater | |
| 15:29 | Joubu | ashimema: so, the next question: "how?" :) |
| 15:29 | tcohen | hi bag |
| 15:29 | bag | heya tcohen |
| 15:29 | ashimema | and we come round to TestBuilder.. |
| 15:30 | thd | ashimema: What do you do with random data which does not trigger the behaviour against which the past needs to be tested? |
| 15:30 | s/past/patch/ | |
| 15:31 | tcohen | thd: TestBuilder is supposed to (for example) create a branch (taking care of all needs to be set for that) and then you use the created branch |
| 15:31 | ashimema | It's not random data so much, as adding foreign keys for you. |
| 15:32 | We have a bunch of tests that will fail if run against a database other than the one that resides on the jenkins server.. I think that wrong personally. | |
| 15:33 | They fail due to the test assuming stuff about the data already in said database.. like default category codes for example.. | |
| 15:33 | Joubu | I think we should give TestBuilder a try. We can remove it later if we find a better solution. |
| 15:33 | ashimema | So.. the point of testbuilder from my understanding is so you can put some specifics in your database to check against (and test builder will take care to add all random foreign keys for you).. |
| 15:33 | so it's not about randomising everything.. | |
| 15:34 | it's just about ensuring you meet all foreign key constraints when attempting to add fake data for testing.. | |
| 15:34 | is that all correct Joubu? | |
| 15:34 | Joubu | s/fake/random |
| 15:34 | yes | |
| 15:35 | example: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ment.cgi?id=30090 | |
| 15:35 | ashimema | not s/fake/random in that last case.. you should still be able to add some specific data to a specific field.. so you can test for fringe case that are only caught with such data.. |
| 15:35 | Joubu | +my $order1 = $builder->build({ + source => 'Aqorder', + value => { + datecancellationprinted => undef, + }, + only_fk => 1, +}); +C4::Acquisition::NewOrder($order1); |
| 15:35 | oops | |
| 15:35 | no need to create biblio, budget, etc. | |
| 15:35 | ashimema | exactly.. |
| 15:35 | Joubu | they are created automatically with random data |
| 15:36 | ashimema | anyone else care to chip back in? |
| 15:36 | Long term.. i'de prefer we added the functionality to the cpan module mentioned as an alternative in the bug.. | |
| 15:36 | clrh | what does mean chip back in ashimema ? |
| 15:37 | ashimema | but I tihnk for speeds sake we're probably best pushing TestBuilder as is? |
| 15:37 | clrh.. any other comments outside Joubu and My ramblings (conversation) | |
| 15:37 | clrh | (ok thanks) |
| 15:37 | ztajoli | as is in debian stable better |
| 15:38 | Joubu | ashimema: not sure, because we will certainly introduce some Koha specific stuff (the db structure is sometime not good, fk cannot be follow to create data). |
| 15:38 | ztajoli | attention on use modules from CPAN, only if mandatry for same feature/fix |
| 15:38 | ashimema | either way.. can we agree on TestBuilder being pushed or not? |
| 15:38 | it's bascially passed qa now.. I just felt this discussion was needed | |
| 15:39 | Joubu | great, moving on? |
| 15:40 | ztajoli | In my opinion yes |
| 15:40 | ashimema | tcohen? |
| 15:40 | wahanui | tcohen is, like, obsessed with automated testing :) |
| 15:40 | tcohen | sorry, i was called by te boss |
| 15:40 | i'm not sure about the approach to unit testing | |
| 15:41 | i don't think we are doing unit testing either | |
| 15:41 | but I see TestBuilder as a shortcut to something "closer" to unit testing | |
| 15:41 | ashimema | we're certainly mixing unit tests with integration tests.. |
| 15:41 | Joubu | tcohen: some tests are unit tests, others are integration tests |
| 15:41 | tcohen | and also have some integration tests |
| 15:41 | at the same time | |
| 15:42 | so, in the short term, I'd agree we can have *better* tests using testBuilder | |
| 15:42 | my only concern is technical debt | |
| 15:42 | Joubu | I don't think so |
| 15:42 | but easily to write, so more unit tests :) | |
| 15:42 | ashimema | we aught to more clearly define when you should write a 'db_dependant unit test', a 'db_independant unit test', a 'integration test' |
| 15:43 | My last questions regarding testbuilder can go on off meeting.. (there are to do with that dbic followup) | |
| 15:43 | tcohen | i think it was gmcharlt_that said we could separate context-dependent vs. non-context-dependent |
| 15:44 | ashimema | mocking context is actually pretty straight forward.. |
| 15:44 | tcohen | ashimema: mocking is pretty straightforward |
| 15:44 | :-D | |
| 15:44 | ashimema | and in fact.. there's a lib for it too t/lib/Mocks |
| 15:44 | Joubu | quite empty... |
| 15:44 | tcohen | i think we could push TestBuilder, butI'm confident I'll continue to write mocked tests |
| 15:45 | barton | if you have a db_dependant test that passes, and a db_independant that doesn't, that could be useful information... |
| 15:45 | ashimema | indeed.. |
| 15:45 | tcohen | barton: we need both, I agree |
| 15:45 | ashimema | but that measn writing both ;) |
| 15:45 | tcohen | yeah |
| 15:45 | that's what i was saying about infinite time | |
| 15:46 | ashimema | see.. I would like TestBuilder at some point to morph into a 'got db, test agianst it, not got db.. mock it' module |
| 15:46 | barton | yeah, that's where I was going with that. |
| 15:46 | ashimema | anywho.. lets either move on or vote ;) |
| 15:46 | barton | +1 |
| 15:46 | laurence left #koha | |
| 15:47 | tcohen | ashimema: i moved Testbuilder specific discussion to next meeting yesterday |
| 15:47 | ashimema | I missed that.. sos |
| 15:47 | tcohen | not sure how to deal with that |
| 15:47 | ashimema | next topic then :) |
| 15:47 | tcohen | i pretended that we discussed the basis for the decision today |
| 15:48 | and also hear the folks from part 2 | |
| 15:48 | ok, moving on for now | |
| 15:49 | #info we are voting the inclusion of TestBuilder next meeting | |
| 15:49 | ok | |
| 15:49 | #subtopic bugs that need feedback | |
| 15:49 | - Bug 10273 GST/VAT/Tax rewrite - Needs more feedback! | |
| 15:49 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10273 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Unit tests should not be dependent on the Jenkins database |
| 15:49 | tcohen | :/ |
| 15:50 | Joubu | tcohen: Can I explain a liittle or you just list them? |
| 15:50 | tcohen | please, explain |
| 15:50 | Joubu | ok, so the entry point is the wiki page (http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]/GST_Rewrite_RFC). |
| 15:50 | I started to submit some patches last week (and today), I would like to get feedback on patches I already submitted. | |
| 15:51 | tgoat joined #koha | |
| 15:51 | Joubu | I propose to explode the Acquisition module into small module under the Koha namespace. I will add missing unit tests and use DBIC when possible. |
| 15:51 | tgoatley joined #koha | |
| 15:51 | Joubu | I really think this plumbing part is inevitable for the future of the Acquisition module and to add a correct vat management. |
| 15:51 | That's why I am a little bit stuck, I cannot continue to develop other parts if the method I used is not validated by the developer team. | |
| 15:52 | How I see the next steps: I will try to provide as many small changes as I can without any behavior changes. | |
| 15:52 | When the code will be refactored, it will be easy to change the way prices are calculated. | |
| 15:52 | I still plan to add the column configuration stuff to the acquisition tables (invoices, basket, etc.). But this will be one of the last steps. | |
| 15:53 | Some wording should be decide too. How the DB columns should be named? What about the rrp term? Is there a better appropriated term? | |
| 15:53 | need native speakers here | |
| 15:53 | thd | Joubu: Do you know if the code supports tax rates which are more granular than the smallest unit of the currency? |
| 15:53 | tcohen | i think refactoring that code is a valuable task, we need to support Joubu's effort |
| 15:53 | oleonard | Native speakers who understand acquisitions :P |
| 15:53 | ashimema | agreed.. refactoring is certainly super sensible. |
| 15:54 | so far so good Joubu.. | |
| 15:54 | Joubu | I am trying to add as many UT as I can |
| 15:54 | But I cannot continue without getting a consensus on the patches I already submited. | |
| 15:54 | thd | Refactoring may be essential to resolving the problem that every free software accounting program does rounding incorrectly from an accounting perspective. |
| 15:54 | tcohen | can u add links to those small-step patches/bugs? |
| 15:55 | ashimema | whats the bug number again? |
| 15:55 | what he said | |
| 15:55 | Joubu | thd: you can give feedback on the RFC if you want. Some of these questions have already been discuted |
| 15:55 | ashimema: the entry point is the wiki page :) | |
| 15:56 | then bug 12825 | |
| 15:56 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12825 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , GST / VAT rewrite |
| 15:56 | Joubu | then bug 12826 |
| 15:56 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12826 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , GST / VAT rewrite - plumbing |
| 15:56 | ztajoli | As Cineca we have many attention on ACQ. We are starting to test the present patch as are on 'Need Sign off' status |
| 15:56 | tgoat left #koha | |
| 15:56 | tcohen | #link GST rewrite http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/GST_Rewrite_RFC |
| 15:56 | thd | Joubu: I know that the issue has been raised in the RFC. |
| 15:56 | tcohen | #info feedback is needed urgently |
| 15:57 | thd | Joubu: The same issues have been raised with free software accounting software without resolving the issue. |
| 15:57 | ztajoli | for us the refactory line on Joubu is OK. |
| 15:58 | Joubu | thd: You can share on the wiki page what is a correct rounding management, if you like. |
| 15:58 | tcohen | can everyone interested give Joubu feedback on the RFC? |
| 15:58 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 15:58 | ztajoli | For name of DB coloums we prefer the "long_name" policy |
| 15:59 | tcohen | ztajoli: we will be discussing that on the next topics |
| 15:59 | thd | Joubu: That is the problem that correct might even vary by the accountancy rules in a particular jurisdiction and defies programmer centric rules about significant figures etc. |
| 16:01 | tcohen | thd, Joubu: please include those aspects of the problem on the RFC |
| 16:01 | Joubu | I am not aware of these rules. |
| 16:01 | thd: yes, please | |
| 16:01 | ashimema | Joubu.. I'll take a look at those bugs.. but I'm currently working through qa on the UTF8 bug and QA on an emails bug.. they're tkaing allot of me qa time at the minute. |
| 16:01 | tcohen | heh |
| 16:02 | thd | tcohen: I will try to add appropriate comment and link to some discussions of the issue in free software accountancy programs. |
| 16:02 | tcohen | thanks thd |
| 16:02 | moving on then | |
| 16:02 | another one that needs feedback Bug 12830 | |
| 16:02 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12830 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Patch doesn't apply , Move the order-related code into its own module |
| 16:03 | Joubu | 12830 and 12896 (submited today). A (new) try with Class:Accessor and DbIC |
| 16:03 | I would like to base the code on these 2 new modules for the rest of the rewrite. | |
| 16:04 | khall: maybe? :) | |
| 16:04 | tcohen | #info Jonathan needs feedback on bugs 12830 and 12896. Specifically his approach to Class::Accessor and DBIc |
| 16:05 | ashimema | worth poking rangi too for Class::Accessor advice ;) |
| 16:05 | tcohen | he will (hopefully) be on part 2 |
| 16:06 | we need to move ahead | |
| 16:06 | #topic Additions to Coding Guidelines | |
| 16:06 | Topic for #koha is now Additions to Coding Guidelines (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 16:07 | tcohen | there is a proposal from dcook to amend the coding guidelines |
| 16:07 | Joubu | https://trello.com/c/8d7pELLj/[…]s-koha-preference |
| 16:07 | tcohen | so TT plugins are used for fetching preferences instead of passing them from .pl |
| 16:07 | can everyone view that link? | |
| 16:08 | Joubu | tcohen: yes I think so, the board is public |
| 16:08 | pastebot | "tcohen" at 172.16.248.212 pasted "Proposed text fro Koha.Preference usage on TT" (3 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/197 |
| 16:09 | khall | yep and agreed |
| 16:09 | ashimema | agree |
| 16:09 | tcohen | ok, objections? |
| 16:10 | Koha.Preference usage mandatory then | |
| 16:10 | ? | |
| 16:10 | atheia | out of curiosity, what is the reason for not passing in the variable in pl |
| 16:10 | ? | |
| 16:10 | thd | When is HTML 7 coming :) ? |
| 16:10 | atheia | is it purely conciseness? |
| 16:10 | ashimema | atheia.. basically yes ;) |
| 16:10 | atheia | OK. I think I'm fine either way then :-) |
| 16:11 | tcohen | #agreed (subject to votes from part 2) https://trello.com/c/8d7pELLj/[…]s-koha-preference will be added to Coding guidelines |
| 16:12 | next one: should we use DBIC on .pl scripts? | |
| 16:13 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 16:13 | tcohen | opinions? |
| 16:13 | wahanui | opinions are slightly divded :) |
| 16:13 | Joubu | I think this has already been discussed :) |
| 16:13 | And nobody agrees | |
| 16:14 | tcohen | meaning? there is no agreement on either? |
| 16:14 | Joubu | I think DBIC should only be used in pm script. For the maintainability, for UT and for reusability |
| 16:14 | tcohen: in pm script... In pm module | |
| 16:14 | ashimema | I kinda agree with Joubu.. I feel the need for database lookups in pl scripts highlights a flaw in the .pm |
| 16:14 | khall | Joubu: I would disagree. I think we should move in the long run to reducing the number of modules and moving logic into DBIC |
| 16:15 | Joubu | the logic should be tested :) |
| 16:15 | khall | agreed, it can still be unit tested |
| 16:15 | ashimema | but we currently only demand unit tests on modules.. not scripts.. |
| 16:16 | the line between what belongs in a module and what belongs in a script becomes rather fuzzy if we allow this? | |
| 16:16 | tcohen | business logic should be removed from the .pl scripts |
| 16:16 | khall | that would still apply, the code would only move to Koha/Schema/Result and Koha/Schema/ResultSet |
| 16:16 | tcohen: agreed, the logic should not be in pl scripts | |
| 16:17 | tcohen | ok, should we vote? |
| 16:17 | ashimema | so assuming we went to allowing dbic in scripts.. would we impose limits upon what it can be used for? |
| 16:17 | tcohen | or do we all agree (at least) that no db call should be done on the .pl scripts? (it includes DBIC) |
| 16:17 | ah, we don't yet agree heh | |
| 16:17 | khall | using DBIC in pl scripts should be equivilent to using pm subs in pl scripts |
| 16:17 | Joubu | tcohen: not really fair to vote. :) |
| 16:18 | ashimema | khall.. where do you see the line being drawn? |
| 16:18 | khall | tcohen: I think there is a line to walk here. I think using find and simple searches should be allowable in pl files |
| 16:18 | otherwise we are just jumping through hoops that don't need to be there | |
| 16:18 | Joubu | khall: why it's equivalent? If you call create something in the pl script, you want to test it |
| 16:19 | tcohen | khall: I think CRUD operations are ok |
| 16:19 | Joubu | khall: simple example: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12891 |
| 16:19 | critical bug found yesterday | |
| 16:19 | We have to have an unit test for this regression | |
| 16:19 | thd | tcohen: You might exercise your authority as RM during your term, however, further discussion towards some consensus would be helpful. |
| 16:20 | huginn | 04Bug 12891: critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , NewOrder does not return ordernumber |
| 16:20 | tcohen | thd: :-D |
| 16:20 | khall | I don't think that is a good and applicable example Joubu |
| 16:21 | Joubu | khall: ok last link is not relevant :) |
| 16:21 | yes, read too fast, sorry | |
| 16:21 | tcohen | can we discuss this on the list? so we have broader opinions and maybe reach some consensus? |
| 16:21 | Joubu | khall: how to you defined "simple" searches? |
| 16:22 | khall | anything where the search criteria isn't determined at run-time |
| 16:23 | Joubu | khall: if you need the same result somewhere else, you will have to c/c your code |
| 16:23 | khall | anything complicated we can have as a canned method for the resultset |
| 16:23 | Joubu | tcohen: ok for a discussion on the list |
| 16:23 | ztajoli | also for me ok for a discussion on the list |
| 16:24 | khall | we really aren't taking advantage of the power of dbic at the moment |
| 16:24 | tcohen | khall: we will soon :-D |
| 16:24 | khall | we don't need a sub in a perl module, we can have a method in the ResultSet, which would be unit testable |
| 16:24 | tcohen | khall: can you post an email to the list with your POV |
| 16:24 | khall | module subs should only be needed when evaluation across tables is required |
| 16:24 | tcohen: sure! | |
| 16:25 | tcohen | including how to properly test our ResultSet classes? |
| 16:26 | #action Kyle will start a discussion on the koha-dev list on taking advantage of DBIc in our code base. We will discuss where to use DBIc, and how to properly test our ResultSet classes | |
| 16:26 | ashimema | and a coding guideline for it ;) |
| 16:26 | tcohen | of course :-d |
| 16:27 | #cochair ashimema | |
| 16:28 | need to run, ashimema will continue to chair | |
| 16:28 | #chair ashimema | |
| 16:28 | huginn | Current chairs: ashimema tcohen |
| 16:28 | ashimema | ok.. so moving on. |
| 16:28 | tcohen | bbl, thanks everyone |
| 16:29 | barton | next topic? |
| 16:29 | wahanui | next topic is a tricky one... |
| 16:29 | ashimema | #topic Naming of database columns |
| 16:29 | Topic for #koha is now Naming of database columns (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 16:29 | ashimema | sorry, had to catch up in the agenda |
| 16:30 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 16:30 | ashimema | khall.. I think this one was one of your suggestions. |
| 16:30 | Joubu | It's a request from khall |
| 16:30 | khall | yep |
| 16:30 | ashimema | did you do some wording for a new guidline? |
| 16:31 | khall | tables should be named as plurals with each word separated by underscores |
| 16:31 | we should follow standard dbic naming conventions | |
| 16:31 | ashimema | or, whilst you come up with some wording.. can we agree to column_name as convenstions? |
| 16:31 | khall | I'll try to locate a document that specifies them, if there is one |
| 16:32 | ashimema | #info column_names made up of multiple words should be joined with underscore to maintain dbic standards |
| 16:33 | I'm happy to go with that.. does everyone agree? | |
| 16:33 | khall | and should be plural |
| 16:33 | barton | +1 |
| 16:33 | ashimema | makes sense to go forward being dbic compliant |
| 16:33 | +1 | |
| 16:33 | atheia | +1 |
| 16:33 | ztajoli | aslo for me makes sense to go forward being dbic compliant |
| 16:33 | +1 | |
| 16:34 | khall | koha_widgets rather than koha_widget |
| 16:34 | Joubu | not sure about the plural form. |
| 16:34 | But +1 to follow DBIC conventions | |
| 16:34 | ashimema | plural form is a dbic convention too is it not? |
| 16:34 | oleonard | +1 |
| 16:34 | ashimema | either way.. I think the dbic convenstions are sensible and it would be nice to tie it down to them.. |
| 16:35 | khall you ok to add a rule to the guidlines? | |
| 16:35 | Joubu | an url could be useful |
| 16:35 | khall | yes |
| 16:36 | I think the rule should just be 'follow dbic conventions' and list the important parts ( underscores, plurality, etc ) | |
| 16:37 | that would include the primary key being 'id' and any foreign keys being the table name, rather than the primary key name | |
| 16:37 | ashimema | #agreed To add a rule to the coding guidelines that mimicks that of the dbic conventions for column_names pending this evening meeting |
| 16:37 | #info exact wording of guidline to be decided (after looking up dbic specifics) | |
| 16:37 | we ok to move on? | |
| 16:38 | * ashimema | wonders if he's started talking to himself? |
| 16:39 | thd | yes |
| 16:39 | ashimema | #topic Requirements for CLI scripts |
| 16:39 | Topic for #koha is now Requirements for CLI scripts (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 16:40 | Joubu | I can c/c the note I put on the trello: |
| 16:40 | ashimema | First:Are we happy with Joubu's suggestions? |
| 16:40 | yes please :) | |
| 16:40 | Joubu | I thought some guidelines existed for Koha scripts, but actually they don't (or I don't find them, I did not search for a lot). |
| 16:40 | I propose misc/cronjobs/delete_patrons.pl as an example of the best pratices (I don't tell that because I am the author...). | |
| 16:40 | It uses: - Pod::Usage | |
| 16:40 | - GetOpt::Long | |
| 16:40 | - the -c parameter to confirm the changes | |
| 16:40 | - call pod2usage if something wrong with the parameters | |
| 16:40 | - add the POD at the end of the file | |
| 16:41 | thd | I am not certain about forcing -c as the confirmation parameter. |
| 16:41 | ashimema | most seems sensible to me (and is how I've been writing recent scripts too). |
| 16:41 | I also wonder about the -c.. | |
| 16:41 | do 'all' scripts need a confirmation? | |
| 16:41 | khall | I agree in general, but these rules will mean I probably will not continue development of my cli patron importer. |
| 16:42 | ashimema | and if they do.. should they all have a 'dry run' mode |
| 16:42 | Joubu | ashimema: not all, but gmcharlt_ asked that when he was RM |
| 16:42 | thd | I can see the advantage of consistency but adopting some script existing in the world may be a problem. |
| 16:42 | ashimema | are you doing much on the patron importer khall? |
| 16:43 | I felt your bringing the liblime patch up to date was more of a stop gap, whilst a proper refactoring of the imports stuff was done.. (i.e splitting out import into a module) | |
| 16:43 | khall | it's good to go. I would like to just have the tools patron importer work from the command line, which is what my first addition of the patch did |
| 16:43 | thd | I favour requiring a confirmation switch if running the script without parameters otherwise might do something bad or unexpected. |
| 16:43 | khall | I was told this is frowned upon, so I made it cli only |
| 16:43 | ashimema | (it doesn't work with patron attrbiutes btw; ;) ) |
| 16:44 | khall | but now it has alot of duplicate code |
| 16:44 | oleonard | Are there objections to requiring that new cli scripts must have a confirmation parameter? |
| 16:44 | khall | splitting everything out to a module is the best way to go, I can totally agree. |
| 16:45 | barton | do we have any scripts that don't alter data? |
| 16:45 | ztajoli | for me +1 on must have a confirmation parameter |
| 16:45 | thd | All the scripts which I write merely display usage information if run without parameters. |
| 16:46 | khall | question: what will the standard behavior for not passing -c be? |
| 16:46 | atheia | What would happen if no -c parameter is passed? |
| 16:46 | indeed :-) | |
| 16:46 | khall | dry run if possbile? |
| 16:46 | Joubu | khall: yes |
| 16:46 | khall | just a warning if lazy? ; ) |
| 16:46 | Joubu | khall: I set the verbose flag when -c is not given |
| 16:46 | thd | I like even requiring a parameter for test mode. |
| 16:46 | oleonard | I would expect the script to show help information if the -c was not passed |
| 16:47 | ztajoli | also I would expect the script to show help information if the -c was not passed |
| 16:47 | ashimema | so we agree to needing some guidlines.. |
| 16:47 | but can't agree yet on the -c | |
| 16:47 | atheia | but surely if you invoke a script you expect it to do something - why else would you invoke it? |
| 16:47 | thd | If default displays usage information you do not need to read the source code to determine the help parameter. |
| 16:47 | khall | agreed, we should require -c, display help if no -c, and have -t for dry runs |
| 16:47 | atheia | So I think there should be a tangible benefit in forcing the user to pass -c |
| 16:47 | like running in dry-run makes sense | |
| 16:48 | But just showing help does not… | |
| 16:48 | If you see what I'm saying? | |
| 16:48 | ashimema | hmm.. |
| 16:48 | barton | I'm with atheia... |
| 16:48 | khall | atheia: I think the tangible benefit is getting the help and not altering the db by accident |
| 16:48 | Joubu | atheia: yes, I agree |
| 16:48 | thd | I object to requiring confirmation parameter to be -c. |
| 16:49 | khall | thd: why? |
| 16:49 | atheia | OK, so just running this through: |
| 16:50 | ashimema | go on |
| 16:50 | thd | It may be a good default but a strong requirement may complicate adapting and maintaining some existing script from outside Koha to Koha. |
| 16:50 | atheia | If we require -c to do something to the db we're saying it's a fail-safe against accidental use. |
| 16:51 | Joubu | thd: are you asking for scripts you are going to submit on bugzilla? |
| 16:51 | oleonard | thd: Do you have an example? |
| 16:51 | atheia | So we are targetting this at someone who normally does not use cli commands, and who would simply expect information when running a command, rather than behaviour? |
| 16:51 | thd | Many scripts in the world use -c for other purposes. FSF recommends -c for displaying copyright information. |
| 16:52 | oleonard | thd: So all you object to is the letter choice? |
| 16:52 | thd | Yes |
| 16:52 | khall | how about —confirm |
| 16:52 | thd | I perfectly agree with requiring some confirmation |
| 16:52 | Joubu | thd: it's like that for a lot of Koha scripts... |
| 16:52 | * oleonard | doesn't really care about the letter, just the behavior |
| 16:53 | ashimema | I see.. |
| 16:53 | barton | I'm not so hot on the behavior -- it feels distinctly un-unixy. |
| 16:53 | ashimema | so we're now agreeing to a --confirm.. |
| 16:53 | Joubu | atheia: yes |
| 16:53 | ashimema | but not yet to it's action |
| 16:53 | thd | Joubu: I merely identify a potential problem for bringing some new script into Koha adapted from another community. |
| 16:53 | ashimema | i.e if missing.. dry run.. or if missing.. help |
| 16:53 | khall | I do agree with barton's point |
| 16:54 | barton | I would expect a dry-run without action. |
| 16:54 | ashimema | I'm thinking without confirm it should dry run preferably.. |
| 16:54 | indradg | +1 for dry run |
| 16:54 | khall | is there any precedent for this behavior with other unix utils? |
| 16:54 | barton | ... if '--confirm' (or perhaps --commit) were missing. |
| 16:54 | ashimema | but I don' think allo of our current scripts do dry runs at all ;) |
| 16:54 | Joubu | ashimema: actually if the output is explicit, we don't care... |
| 16:55 | thd | Does GetOpt::Long prevent a short form from doing something. It had not in my past testing. |
| 16:56 | atheia | I would like the behaviour to be dryrun but I think requiring it for cli scripts would be pretty difficult, just in terms of providing a 'dryrun mode' for existing and even new scripts. |
| 16:56 | Generally one might require confirmation for dangerous behaviour so there is some precedent in unixy tools. | |
| 16:56 | thd | I favour requiring a parameter even for dry runs. |
| 16:56 | ashimema | how about.. if possible to dry run.. then without confirm we get dry run.. if not possible to dry run.. we return help |
| 16:56 | khall | are we just saying that we can't trust sysadmin's to use Koha's scripts correctly with this idea? |
| 16:56 | thd | Dry runs of some possible scripts could thrash your system. |
| 16:57 | atheia | But what we're saying here is that scripts are always dangerous, and that we don't trust the user by default. |
| 16:57 | ashimema | very true.. hadn't thought of that case thd |
| 16:57 | i'm sort of edging toward.. no confirm always give help test.. and a dry run requires a -t (but not nessarily a --confirm)? | |
| 16:57 | thd | All of the scripts which I write do nothing but display usage information when invoked without parameters. |
| 16:58 | ashimema | I also agree to that thd. |
| 16:58 | oleonard | atheia: You can also think of it as making scripts user-friendly, since the user doesn't have to be afraid to try running them |
| 16:58 | khall | ashimema: dry run should definitely not require confirm. |
| 16:58 | they should be mutually exclusive | |
| 16:58 | ashimema | agreed khall |
| 16:58 | atheia | What dry-run would trash a system? that's a crazy dry-run? or am I naive here? |
| 16:58 | khall | heavy db reading |
| 16:58 | ashimema | heavy db reading |
| 16:59 | jinx | |
| 16:59 | khall | lol |
| 16:59 | atheia | ah interesting :)- |
| 16:59 | :-) | |
| 16:59 | makes sense. | |
| 16:59 | barton | atheia: I think that was thrash, not trash |
| 16:59 | thd | khall: What about a script which reads your entire database and manipulates it without writing anything as thrashing dry run behaviour? |
| 16:59 | Joubu | so we need to confirm the dry-run? |
| 16:59 | (;)) | |
| 16:59 | ashimema | ok.. can i go for an agreed on.. we need guidlines for it.. and we agree on --confirm for all scripts.. and lack therof displays help |
| 17:00 | atheia | fine by me. |
| 17:00 | ztajoli | also for me |
| 17:00 | khall | not sure we've reached consensus, but I can accept —confirm and —test with the default being the help |
| 17:00 | Joubu | yep |
| 17:00 | ashimema | #agreed To add requirement for new CLI scripts to guidlines |
| 17:01 | barton | I'm with khall. |
| 17:01 | thd | When I tried to write --something parameters in the past using GetOpt::Long I found that -s would have the same function. |
| 17:01 | atheia | +1 for khall's statement. |
| 17:01 | khall | —test shouldn't be mandatory, as some scripts can't do dry runs |
| 17:01 | ashimema | #info Pod::Usage, GetOpt::Long, pod2usage, POD at end of file and --confirm (where lack of display help test) |
| 17:01 | khall | thd: it can be done |
| 17:02 | ashimema | is that info comprehensive enough without blocking too much? |
| 17:02 | atheia | barton: indeed, subtle difference between thrash and drash :-) |
| 17:02 | khall | please add examples with the rules when possible to help new developers |
| 17:02 | indradg | +1 khall |
| 17:02 | ashimema | anyone facny havig a punt at wording that for the guidlines and adding it? |
| 17:02 | khall | what about —test ? are we not making a decision on that? |
| 17:02 | thd | khall: I may have solved it the past but you will show me if I do not see that in my old code ;) |
| 17:02 | ashimema | I don't think --test should be mandatory.. |
| 17:03 | khall | we can just say it's a strong recommendation and best practice |
| 17:03 | ashimema | ok by me.. |
| 17:03 | but.. shall we move onto the next topic ;) | |
| 17:03 | khall | agreed. |
| 17:03 | atheia | agreed. |
| 17:03 | thd | Recommended with the explanation of please avoid thrashing the user's system by surprise. |
| 17:04 | ashimema | #topic Wording of bug 10860 |
| 17:04 | Topic for #koha is now Wording of bug 10860 (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 17:04 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10860 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , In-House Use |
| 17:04 | Joubu | ashimema: could you explain for me please? :) |
| 17:04 | ashimema | did anyone come up with any alternatives ti 'In house use' |
| 17:04 | So.. | |
| 17:04 | khall | how about "on-site only" |
| 17:05 | ashimema | The feature is for statistical tracking basically.. |
| 17:05 | haha.. funnily enough. that's what I ended up suggesting. | |
| 17:05 | barton | I'm still not clear what this feature does. |
| 17:06 | Joubu | Why "inhouse use" is for anonymous use only? |
| 17:06 | ashimema | We've already go statistical users for tracking when an item has been 'used' withn the library (i.e left out on a desk at the end of the day).. |
| 17:06 | khall | I'm assuming it gives the ability to track the use of an item that can't be removed from the library |
| 17:06 | ashimema | Joubu's feature adds the ability to track specifc uses by patrons for say a monitored material that's not alloud to leave the library.. |
| 17:07 | jcamins | +1 for on-site use |
| 17:07 | ashimema | that's about ti right, joubu |
| 17:07 | khall | this connects the use of the item to a patron, correct? |
| 17:07 | thd | khall: I think the issue I had with long parameters was forcing the same behaviour for shell scripts between bash MSDOS and Perl for parameters. |
| 17:07 | khall | thd: I could see that happening. However, Koha no longer functions on Windows, so it should be a non-issue. |
| 17:07 | atheia | yeah, from what I understand on-site is better |
| 17:07 | jcamins | This is a very common scenario in rare book libraries. |
| 17:07 | atheia | +1 on-site |
| 17:07 | ashimema | We've got normal lending (off site), we've got statistical lending (were the librarian performs a check in to signify an anonymous has of I item on site) and finally there monitored reference only use (on site, but not anonymous). |
| 17:08 | Joubu | ok thanks everybody :) |
| 17:08 | jcamins | I'd vote for "in-house" except we're already using that for statistical purposes. |
| 17:08 | nengard | local use? |
| 17:08 | that's another way people refer to it | |
| 17:08 | ashimema | hehe.. jcamins don't stir ! ;) |
| 17:09 | jcamins | ashimema: sorry! |
| 17:09 | khall | my vote goes to 'on-site' |
| 17:09 | ashimema | I felt 'local use' wasn't descriptive enough for some reason.. can't rmember why though |
| 17:09 | you happy with 'on-site' Joubu? | |
| 17:09 | if so.. we'll move on :) | |
| 17:09 | Joubu | I am happy with what you want :) |
| 17:09 | I just don't want to do this massive change twice | |
| 17:09 | khall | %s/In-House/On-Site/g |
| 17:10 | ashimema | #info Agreed that 'on-site' was a better wording than 'in-house' |
| 17:10 | :) | |
| 17:10 | Joubu | khall: yes, more or less :) |
| 17:10 | ashimema | next topic |
| 17:10 | wahanui | next topic is a tricky one... |
| 17:11 | ashimema | #topic Big Stuff we're working on?! |
| 17:11 | Topic for #koha is now Big Stuff we're working on?! (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 17:11 | ashimema | any more for any more? |
| 17:11 | Joubu | hea is coming (see hea.koha-community.org) |
| 17:12 | ashimema | #info hea.koha-community.org is coming :) |
| 17:12 | khall | Accounts Rewrite. It's been pretty much bullet proofed. I expect qa issues will involve internationalization |
| 17:12 | ashimema | ooh.. that link didn't work for me last night.. |
| 17:12 | it works today. | |
| 17:12 | Joubu | (Bug I don't find guinea pigs to test it) |
| 17:12 | but | |
| 17:12 | khall | neat! |
| 17:12 | ashimema | #info account rewrite is getting there.. wohoo |
| 17:12 | atheia | hea is looking nice! |
| 17:13 | chrisrohde joined #koha | |
| 17:13 | ashimema | I'm about to add it to our customer repository Joubu.. then i just need to talk customers into turning it on ;) |
| 17:13 | Joubu | see bug 11926 |
| 17:13 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11926 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Render community koha statistic usages |
| 17:13 | ashimema | #info hea is bug 11926 |
| 17:14 | Joubu | you can upload your data (test installation only!, the data will be deleted) |
| 17:14 | ashimema | :) |
| 17:14 | any mroe for any more? | |
| 17:14 | ztajoli | UTF-8 QA ? |
| 17:15 | ashimema | ztajoli, i'm still working on it.. |
| 17:15 | it's a biggen ;) | |
| 17:15 | chrisrohde left #koha | |
| 17:15 | Joubu | ashimema: it could be good not to squash the patches. I think we need to keep the history, if something wrong happened |
| 17:16 | ashimema | deffo. |
| 17:16 | shame tcohen has gone.. | |
| 17:16 | * Joubu | does not know why he told that |
| 17:16 | ashimema | he was working on tests for it was he not? |
| 17:16 | Joubu | I don't know, I hope :) |
| 17:17 | ashimema | #info bug 11944 is working it's way through QA |
| 17:17 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11944 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Cleanup Koha UTF-8 |
| 17:17 | Joubu | ashimema: no new stuff (except vat rewrite:)) from BibLibre planned |
| 17:17 | ashimema | this actually moves us on nicely to |
| 17:17 | #topic Actions from last meeting | |
| 17:17 | Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 17:18 | ashimema | #info ashimema added a note to the wiki to encourage use of columns stuff for datatables |
| 17:18 | #info ashimema has started qa for UTF8 bug.. minimal comments left already | |
| 17:19 | #info Waiting to hear from gmcharlt, tcohen regarding utf8 tests | |
| 17:19 | that's all the actions in the minutes.. | |
| 17:19 | any more for any more? | |
| 17:20 | #topic Next Meeting? | |
| 17:20 | Topic for #koha is now Next Meeting? (Meeting topic: Koha Developer IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 - part 1) | |
| 17:21 | ashimema | Worth keeping the momentum and having another same time next week.. or should we have a bigger gap.. |
| 17:21 | Joubu | next tuesday? (maybe a little bit shorter :)) |
| 17:21 | ashimema | hopefully these meets will get shorter soon. |
| 17:21 | what he said.. | |
| 17:21 | atheia | next tuesday is fine with me. |
| 17:21 | ztajoli | Ok for me |
| 17:21 | ashimema | done |
| 17:22 | #agreed Same time next week.. assuming that's ok with the guys this evening | |
| 17:22 | Joubu | It would be great to have some discussion on the trello board, before the meeting |
| 17:22 | ashimema | #agreed meeting needs to be kept shorter |
| 17:22 | Joubu | in order no to debate from the beginning. |
| 17:22 | ashimema | yeah.. I agree. we should make more sue of trello and use the meeting to bascially vote and assign tasks. |
| 17:22 | Joubu | (trello or alternative) |
| 17:23 | ashimema | #info more chat on the trello board before the meeting.. try to limit the meeting to agreements and assignments of work. |
| 17:23 | thd | Joubu why does the trello board complain about my web browser? |
| 17:23 | ashimema | #endmeeting |
| 17:23 | Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.16.3 is available! Next general meeting was 13 and 14 August 2014 at 22:00 and 15:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha http://koha-community.org. Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for pastes. | |
| 17:23 | huginn | Meeting ended Tue Sep 9 17:23:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 17:23 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-09-09-15.07.html | |
| 17:23 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-09-09-15.07.txt | |
| 17:23 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]09-15.07.log.html | |
| 17:23 | Joubu | thd: hum, I don't know |
| 17:23 | ztajoli left #koha | |
| 17:23 | ashimema | a bit rushed at the end there.. but I could sense we were loosing everyone ;) |
| 17:24 | Joubu | are you using w3m or links? :) |
| 17:24 | oleonard | thd: What is your web browser? |
| 17:24 | barton | Joubu++ |
| 17:24 | thd | Joubu: I prefer lynx ;) |
| 17:24 | barton | old school! |
| 17:25 | lynx on an amiga was my primary web browser through most of the 90s. | |
| 17:25 | ashimema | dinner time.. |
| 17:25 | thd | Joubu: Actually, I was using chromium just now when I saw the complaint. |
| 17:26 | Joubu | thd: what's the version? |
| 17:26 | wahanui | the version is always noted in a comment on top |
| 17:26 | Joubu | thd: but if it works, don't care :) |
| 17:26 | thd | It may work despite the warning that it would not. |
| 17:27 | Joubu | I am starving too! Have a good day/night everyone |
| 17:28 | oleonard | Chromium doesn't complain to me. |
| 17:28 | thd | Joubu: Unnecessary use of JavaScript grrr. |
| 17:32 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 17:35 | thd | oleonard: It may be the version on the old system from which I have not yet migrated my IRC infrastructure. |
| 17:35 | laurence left #koha | |
| 17:37 | thd | oleonard: However, the source code of Trello is not available for the possibility of fix the problem. |
| 17:37 | s/fix/fixing/ | |
| 17:38 | oleonard | Is that something you were likely to do? |
| 17:38 | thd | oleonard: no ;) |
| 17:39 | oleonard: If I thought that it would be the greatest collaboration system ever then yes. | |
| 17:46 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 17:46 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 17:46 | tgoat joined #koha | |
| 17:53 | thd | oleonard: A better answer would be if I thought it might be relatively easy to fix even if was actually not easy. |
| 17:55 | indradg | mtompset: hiya |
| 17:55 | mtompset | Greetings, indradg. :) |
| 17:56 | Greetings, thd. | |
| 17:56 | thd | oleonard: However, most of my time is often already taken by things which might have been relatively easy but actually are found not to be. |
| 17:56 | mtompset | Any one here familiar with LibCat? |
| 17:56 | thd | hello mtompset. |
| 17:59 | mtompset: Yes, very familiar. | |
| 17:59 | mtompset | thd: Any idea on how to export from LibCat to Koha? |
| 17:59 | thd | mtompset: Some of it would be in Koha already if I had more time. |
| 18:00 | mtompset: I worked with the author to obtain the source code with a proper license attached. | |
| 18:00 | mtompset | Can you point me at a URL or something? I'm new to what LibCat supposedly even is. |
| 18:01 | thd | http://www.libcat.org |
| 18:03 | mtompset: LibCat is an automated cataloguing aid which creates some basic MARC 21 information from some common information sources. | |
| 18:05 | mtompset | So, I wonder what my colleagues in Africa are using and calling LibCat. |
| 18:05 | thd | mtompset: The biggest difficulty with the implementation is that some organisation's use may not conform to the terms of service for the APIs which it uses. |
| 18:05 | wnickc joined #koha | |
| 18:05 | mtompset | How does one install it? |
| 18:06 | thd | mtompset: The source code is in Chopac, http://chopac.org . |
| 18:10 | mtompset | Mmmm.... no, that's just an interface. |
| 18:13 | tgoat joined #koha | |
| 18:13 | tgoat | hey look .. Im back! |
| 18:17 | dani left #koha | |
| 18:18 | thd | mtompset: I can make a copy of the source code for you. |
| 18:18 | mtompset | how big is it? |
| 18:19 | thd | mtompset: Very small. If I had any time it would be in Koha but the issue had been a license upgrade for the project. |
| 18:20 | mtompset | Ah, well, I don't need to integrate it. I just need to understand it, so I can get data out of it. :) |
| 18:24 | thd | mtompset: That is easy enough. I think the code needs modification to conform to its own license as given to me. |
| 18:24 | mtompset: The author did not use any actual license for the users of Chopac which are few. | |
| 18:26 | mtompset | So could you email it to me then? |
| 18:26 | thd | mtompset: There is an Apache 2 License code from Amazon as part of it. |
| 18:27 | mtompset | Mixed licenses are a pain. Even Koha has a bit of this problem with some of the pieces it integrates. :) |
| 18:27 | thd | Consequently, a GPL compatible license could not be GPL 2 which Koha was using at the time. |
| 18:29 | mtompset: The license as I received it is AGPL 3 which would require modification to link to the source of your modified version if you run it for someone else over the network. | |
| 18:30 | mtompset | I won't be running for anyone else... I'll be running it to figure out how it works, and then get the data out of it, and then delete it. :) |
| 18:59 | cait joined #koha | |
| 19:20 | ivan joined #koha | |
| 19:35 | thd | mtompset: I have sent the code archive now. |
| 19:35 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 19:36 | mtompset | Thanks. looking now. |
| 19:42 | BigRig joined #koha | |
| 19:43 | paul_p | tcohen are you around ? |
| 19:43 | tcohen | hi paul |
| 19:44 | BigRig joined #koha | |
| 19:46 | bag | heya paul_p |
| 19:46 | cya soon in argentina :) | |
| 19:49 | cait | :) |
| 19:50 | nengard left #koha | |
| 19:52 | magnuse | bag: HI |
| 19:52 | paul_p | bag I can't believe it's in less than 1 month now... |
| 19:52 | bag | magnuse: HI THERE |
| 19:52 | wahanui | niihau, bag |
| 19:52 | cait | i am super excited :) |
| 19:53 | bag | me too :D |
| 19:53 | cait | super super super excited heh |
| 19:53 | tcohen | we are really excited here too |
| 19:53 | * magnuse | sighs |
| 19:53 | bag | ASADO!!! |
| 19:54 | cait | lol |
| 19:54 | bag | well amongst other cool things too :) |
| 19:54 | cait | koha people! |
| 19:54 | bag | but I've been dreaming of an asado for years now |
| 19:54 | ever since I learned of what it is | |
| 19:54 | cait | lol |
| 19:55 | i am sure tcohen won't let you go before you had one | |
| 19:55 | bag | oh cait we are having one! I'm going to sponsor one for everyone :D |
| 19:55 | * magnuse | just found REESE'S Peanut Butter Cups in a local store - will have to do some comfort eating... |
| 19:55 | bag | woot |
| 19:55 | ah magnuse | |
| 19:55 | magnuse++ | |
| 19:55 | cait | they are sooo good |
| 19:56 | i found ben and jerry's with peanut butter cups in a store recently | |
| 19:56 | heavenly | |
| 19:56 | magnuse | yeah, finding them so close to home is a mixed blessing... |
| 19:56 | cait | bag: clever:) |
| 19:56 | tcohen | we won't be having *one* asado |
| 19:56 | that's impossible | |
| 19:56 | bag | tcohen++ |
| 19:56 | let's have one everyday!!! | |
| 19:56 | heh | |
| 19:57 | tcohen | you need to try this at least once http://www.betos.com.ar/?lang=en |
| 19:57 | cait | bag: in our apartment description it says something about bbq on the balcony i think |
| 19:57 | rangi | morning |
| 19:57 | cait | morning rangi |
| 19:57 | we are being excited about argentina and asados :) | |
| 19:57 | magnuse | kia ora rangi |
| 19:58 | rangi | :) |
| 19:58 | bag | cool I'll cook you all some food one night if there is a bbq on the balcony |
| 19:58 | magnuse | not /me ;-) |
| 19:58 | paul_p | kia ora rangi |
| 19:58 | bag | HA figures rangi would show up now |
| 19:58 | talking about asado's and such | |
| 19:58 | rangi++ | |
| 19:58 | cait | bag: yah, we were talking about food :P |
| 19:59 | bag | oh yeah tcohen I'm going to try that place |
| 19:59 | tcohen | there aren't 'lomitos' like that in buenos aires or any other place |
| 20:00 | so, must-try | |
| 20:00 | bye! | |
| 20:00 | bye paul_p | |
| 20:00 | paul_p | bye |
| 20:01 | cait | lomito? |
| 20:02 | paul_p | cait seems that = http://www.saveur.com/article/[…]s/Lomito-Completo |
| 20:03 | I have to go. On international RFP to end before sleeping... | |
| 20:03 | magnuse | have fun paul_p |
| 20:04 | paul_p | magnuse (keep fingers crossed, cheese come be in this RFP ;-) ) |
| 20:04 | s/come/could/ | |
| 20:04 | cait | oh missed the link the first time |
| 20:04 | thx | |
| 20:05 | * magnuse | crosses fingers |
| 20:05 | cait | cheese in an rfp? |
| 20:05 | ok this lomito looks delicious | |
| 20:06 | paul_p | cait (it was a private message: the 1st contact for this RFP came from magnus, and I promized french cheese if we win) |
| 20:06 | * magnuse | crosses fingers some more |
| 20:06 | cait | aah good luck then :) |
| 20:07 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 20:11 | indradg__ joined #koha | |
| 20:28 | bag | I love cheese day - can't wait for next years :D |
| 20:28 | cait | :) |
| 20:29 | this is really a food channel | |
| 20:29 | we should split off another for the dev talk | |
| 20:29 | * magnuse | must make it to marseille, at least |
| 20:29 | bag | magnuse yes please |
| 20:30 | magnuse | cheese! |
| 20:30 | wahanui | well, cheese is delicious, but cait just had butter. |
| 20:30 | magnuse | lol |
| 20:30 | cait | rofl |
| 20:30 | magnuse | yes, butter is nice too |
| 20:30 | bag | cheese is better! |
| 20:31 | magnuse | for eating with my hands, i would prefer cheese, yes |
| 20:31 | * magnuse | consider bringing some norwegian cheese next year |
| 20:32 | magnuse | maybe some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunost (which is strictly speaking not a cheese) |
| 20:33 | "In January 2013, the Bratli Tunnel at Tysfjord was damaged when a lorry load of caramelised brunost caught fire. The high concentration of fat and sugar in the cheese caused it to burn fiercely at sufficiently high temperatures that the fire was still burning five days later." | |
| 20:33 | cait | wow |
| 20:34 | pianohacker | magnuse: that sounds fantastic. is the hard version like a hard dulce de leche? |
| 20:34 | magnuse | i don't think i know dulce de leche |
| 20:35 | there are lots of different varieties. my local store probably has at least 10 types | |
| 20:35 | pianohacker | oh yum |
| 20:36 | jcamins | magnuse: you Norwegians have a lot of dairy-related disasters, don't you? The butter crisis, the brunost fire... |
| 20:37 | magnuse | lol, i guess we do :-) |
| 20:37 | "If boiled for a shorter time, the soft, spreadable version called prim in Norwegian (or messmör in Swedish and mysingur in Icelandic), similar to dulce de leche, is produced." | |
| 20:38 | my local store probably has 5 kinds of "prim" too | |
| 20:38 | pianohacker | so it mostly just tastes milky and caramelized and sweet? |
| 20:39 | magnuse | and then there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomme_%28food%29, which i think of as sort of related to brunost and prim, probably about 5 varieties of that too |
| 20:39 | pianohacker: prim does, and some brunost. | |
| 20:40 | but as the wikipedia article says, brunost can also be used as a name for a cheese that is made with the same methods, but from goats milk | |
| 20:40 | some of them can be really um, dunno what to call it... astringent? | |
| 20:41 | cait | cheese is complicated stuff |
| 20:41 | magnuse | it is! |
| 20:42 | mtompset | Why do people call it cutting the cheese when they fart? |
| 20:43 | And that demonstrates cheese is a source of weirdness too. ;) | |
| 20:45 | magnuse | weird and wonderful! |
| 20:45 | * magnuse | wanders off to dream of cheese |
| 21:12 | mtompset | Have a great day, #koha. Thanks for the email thd-away. |
| 21:12 | Bye, pianohacker magnuse jcamins cait. :) | |
| 21:16 | ashimema | g'night #koha |
| 21:19 | cait | good night ashimema :) |
| 21:19 | still reading logs from first meeting :) | |
| 21:20 | wizzyrea | man I always miss the good conversations |
| 21:20 | ashimema | it was a long one cait |
| 21:20 | cait | wizzyrea: cheese? ;) |
| 21:20 | wizzyrea | yeah. |
| 21:20 | ashimema: ohh, that stinks. | |
| 21:21 | cait | ashimema: long agenda :) |
| 21:21 | wizzyrea | not cheese. :P |
| 21:21 | cheese is good | |
| 21:21 | http://www.whitestonecheese.com/ < awesome cheese. | |
| 21:22 | also: smoked butter. | |
| 21:23 | ashimema | it certianly was a long agenda.. |
| 21:23 | wonder if they'll talk much in the second meeting.. looking at the logs for the last few seems they're always quieter then ;) | |
| 21:23 | cait | i might fall asleep in the midst of it |
| 21:24 | someone around willing to chair a meeting in 30 mins? :) | |
| 21:24 | ashimema | made a fair few decisions though.. obviosly pending any objections later. |
| 21:24 | lol.. I'm heading to bed miss.. | |
| 21:24 | so not I ;) | |
| 21:24 | cait | thought so |
| 21:24 | sleep well :) | |
| 21:48 | JasonBurds joined #koha | |
| 21:53 | JasonBurds | Does anyone know a good way of scheduling bibs with items export to mrc files? |
| 21:54 | cait | hm |
| 21:55 | i am not sure, but did you check if there is a command line tool for doing tha tin koha? | |
| 21:55 | then you could use cron maybe | |
| 21:55 | JasonBurds | I haven't check yet |
| 21:55 | I am manually running it from the tools menu atm | |
| 21:56 | bag | there are some cronjobs iirc |
| 21:56 | JasonBurds | we have a vendor that wants weekly dumps so I wanted to automate it |
| 21:57 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 21:57 | bag | I know we've gone this before |
| 21:58 | rangi | theres a bug |
| 22:00 | cait | hm ok |
| 22:00 | anyone around for the meeting? | |
| 22:01 | bag | I'm here, JasonBurds is here, rangi and cait |
| 22:01 | that works no? | |
| 22:01 | I think tcohen just joined us | |
| 22:01 | cait | ah |
| 22:01 | tcohen | hi |
| 22:01 | wahanui | privet, tcohen |
| 22:01 | cait | tcohen: are you around and can chair? |
| 22:01 | tcohen | i cannot, unfortunately |
| 22:01 | i can pay some attention | |
| 22:02 | cait | it's really late here oto, that's the problem |
| 22:02 | we got midnight now | |
| 22:03 | tcohen | #startmeeting Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2) |
| 22:03 | huginn | Meeting started Tue Sep 9 22:03:04 2014 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 22:03 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 22:03 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:03 | huginn | The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting__9_september_2014__part_2_' |
| 22:03 | tcohen | #topic Introductions |
| 22:03 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 22:03 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:03 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer |
| 22:03 | tcohen | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba |
| 22:03 | wizzyrea | #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT |
| 22:03 | bag | #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater |
| 22:04 | JasonBurds | #info Jason Burds I.T. Supervisor Carnegie-Stout Public Library |
| 22:04 | tcohen | which bug rangi? |
| 22:05 | #topic RM 3.18 comments | |
| 22:05 | Topic for #koha is now RM 3.18 comments (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:05 | tcohen | as i mentioned earlier, my work on facets is pretty complete |
| 22:05 | cait | tcohen++ |
| 22:05 | tcohen | that is to say I'll try to focus on UTF-8 regression tests |
| 22:05 | wizzyrea | \o/ |
| 22:06 | tcohen | #info facets from zebra is needs sign off, bug 11232 |
| 22:06 | wahanui | i already had it that way, tcohen. |
| 22:06 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11232 new feature, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Retrieve facets from Zebra |
| 22:06 | tcohen | thanks to jcamins and indexdata for their support |
| 22:06 | cait | tcohen: just a quick question - it#s dom only now? |
| 22:07 | tcohen | good question: yes |
| 22:07 | cait | which is ok, just for testing |
| 22:07 | tcohen | i focused on XSLT's and defining almost-good syntax for the XML file |
| 22:07 | to define facets | |
| 22:08 | https://github.com/tomascohen/[…]1ec44daada0a85595 | |
| 22:08 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 22:09 | bag | NateC? |
| 22:09 | wahanui | I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE |
| 22:09 | bag | heh my favorite - (sorry to interrupt the meeting) |
| 22:09 | tcohen | heh |
| 22:09 | moving on? | |
| 22:09 | bag | yup |
| 22:09 | tcohen | #topic General technical discussion |
| 22:09 | Topic for #koha is now General technical discussion (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:09 | cait | yep |
| 22:09 | tcohen | #subtopic To mock or not to mock...? |
| 22:10 | there's been a discussion on the subject | |
| 22:10 | https://trello.com/c/vsrkdpvv/[…]t-is-the-question | |
| 22:12 | on part 1, it was discussed in a broader way | |
| 22:12 | trying to speak about the whole testing stuff we've collected on the project | |
| 22:12 | the pros and cons | |
| 22:13 | my position was that ideally we should have complete unit tests for out methods, with all their dependencies mocked, to prevent side effects upon testing | |
| 22:13 | *and* also have a means to have proper integration tests | |
| 22:14 | TestBuilder appears as a way to write more tests in an easier way | |
| 22:14 | they are more like integration tests | |
| 22:14 | and there was some agreement they shouldn't have side effects, create its own semi-randomized data | |
| 22:15 | I proposed they should be able to run randomly (no side effect between unit tests) | |
| 22:15 | opinions? | |
| 22:15 | wahanui | opinions are slightly divded :) |
| 22:16 | cait | I am a little worried about people forgetting what actualyl happens in the background with a tool like testbuilder |
| 22:17 | it#s also another tool to learn - would it be mandatory? | |
| 22:18 | tcohen | the main idea is that if your test needs a patron, you create it with testbuilder |
| 22:18 | no need to create all stuff needed to create a patron before creating it | |
| 22:18 | cait | why not create it with koha's methods? |
| 22:18 | hm | |
| 22:18 | tcohen | because if you cannot depend on DB's content (ideally) |
| 22:19 | you need to create the patron category, the branches, etc | |
| 22:19 | rangi | i think everyone knows that im against the idea |
| 22:19 | tcohen | certaintly |
| 22:20 | rangi | its 1/ another tool for people to learn 2/ something that needs its own tests 3/ something we have to maintain 4/ makes people not understand how the db actually works |
| 22:20 | cait | i tend to agree |
| 22:20 | rangi | but as long as its not mandatory |
| 22:21 | then i can ignore it | |
| 22:21 | tcohen | I personally prefer to mock |
| 22:21 | cbrannon joined #koha | |
| 22:21 | tcohen | it is methodologically cleaner |
| 22:22 | and it is simpler to write tests | |
| 22:22 | rangi | and something that other perl developers would have seen before |
| 22:22 | * gmcharlt_ | feels much the same way as rangi; I don't think it that's hard to more directly create required rows in dependent tables |
| 22:22 | tcohen | my experience with Test::MockObject is positive |
| 22:22 | hi gmcharlt | |
| 22:22 | cait | i'd like if there was a tutorial or something for beginners with mock |
| 22:23 | tcohen | we can spend some time on that during hackfest cait |
| 22:23 | cait | maybe hackfest? |
| 22:23 | :) | |
| 22:23 | tcohen | maybe *someone* can run a tutorial |
| 22:24 | cait | but I think by adding more 'koha ways' of doing things, we might make things harder in the end |
| 22:25 | tcohen | do you guys agree each test should build its own data? |
| 22:25 | cait | yes, i think it would be nice to get the tests to be able to run on any database |
| 22:25 | without needing special data or leaving traces | |
| 22:25 | if i got the question correctly | |
| 22:25 | tcohen | and also, should we spend time writing mocked tests or complete multiple-pieces integrated tests? |
| 22:26 | cait | not sure about the terms/differences, sorry |
| 22:26 | * tcohen | tends to be non-idiomatic |
| 22:28 | tcohen | i'm trying to read questions raised on part 1, so we have more opinions |
| 22:29 | has anyone read the TestBuilder code yet? | |
| 22:30 | cait | not closely |
| 22:31 | tcohen | ok, moving on then |
| 22:32 | will skip some items, and put them on the "bgs" topic | |
| 22:32 | #topic Additions to Coding Guidelines | |
| 22:32 | Topic for #koha is now Additions to Coding Guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:33 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 22:33 | tcohen | there is a proposal from dcook to add the use of Koha.Preference on TT instead of passing syspref values from .pl scripts |
| 22:33 | #link coding guidelines foe using Koha.Preference https://trello.com/c/8d7pELLj/[…]s-koha-preference | |
| 22:33 | tgoat joined #koha | |
| 22:34 | cait | ok for me for new code |
| 22:34 | tcohen | part 1 agreed to add that to the coding guidelines, it is for new code |
| 22:34 | cait | i think rewriting old code will only introduce bugs |
| 22:34 | pianohacker | I like the guideline for new code, yes |
| 22:34 | tcohen | if anyone has the time to do it, we'll see what happens |
| 22:35 | it could be done as training on the hackfest, dunno | |
| 22:35 | should we vote? | |
| 22:36 | cait | +1 |
| 22:36 | tcohen | +1 |
| 22:36 | pianohacker | +1 |
| 22:36 | gmcharlt | +1 |
| 22:37 | rangi | +1 |
| 22:37 | tcohen | #agreed adding Koha.Preference use to coding guidelines |
| 22:38 | #topic should we use DBIC on .pl scripts? | |
| 22:38 | Topic for #koha is now should we use DBIC on .pl scripts? (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:38 | tcohen | during part 1 we decided to move the discussion to the list |
| 22:38 | and khall was forced to volunteer to post an email to the dev list on the subject | |
| 22:39 | the key point being that sooner than later we should start using DBIc more extensively | |
| 22:40 | and using DBIC ResultSet for crud operations is not different from using our own crafted packages | |
| 22:41 | rangi | havent really thought about it enough to know if i like it or not |
| 22:41 | tcohen | anyone wants to write his/her opinion on the subject here? |
| 22:41 | eythian | I don't think I like it. |
| 22:41 | our modules should present a data-storage-independent API | |
| 22:41 | depending on a database at the .pl level doesn't mesh with that. | |
| 22:42 | rangi | im leaning that way, but dont have enough thoughts to write up an email yet |
| 22:42 | tcohen | my opinion is, in principle, that using dbic is similar to using dbi at the .pl level, and i tend not to agree |
| 22:43 | eythian | yep |
| 22:43 | tcohen | khall thought he had a point on what we could be doing with dbic that we dont |
| 22:43 | rangi | i think we shouldnt do either yeah, no dbi and dbic at the pl |
| 22:43 | tcohen | so he offered to post that on the list |
| 22:43 | rangi | cool |
| 22:44 | tcohen | ok, we are all encouraged to post our opinions once that email is posted |
| 22:44 | don't leave khall aloooone | |
| 22:44 | cait | :) |
| 22:44 | tcohen | #topic Naming of database columns |
| 22:44 | Topic for #koha is now Naming of database columns (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 22:45 | tcohen | in line with the preivous one (not a coincidence) khall proposed that we adopt |
| 22:45 | a naming cenvention for table/column names | |
| 22:45 | * eythian | feels that horse may have bolted :) |
| 22:46 | tcohen | essentialy, that we follow standard dbic naming convention |
| 22:46 | eythian: meaning? | |
| 22:47 | eythian | naming is already a bit of a mishmash |
| 22:47 | tcohen | eythian: stop making me use google translate |
| 22:47 | eythian | (that's not really a reason to not start having a standard though.) |
| 22:47 | tcohen | :-P |
| 22:48 | part one voted to add to the coding guidelines | |
| 22:48 | "To add a rule to the coding guidelines that mimicks that of the dbic conventions for column_names pending this evening meeting" | |
| 22:49 | any objections | |
| 22:49 | ? | |
| 22:49 | eythian | so the dbic convention is to use underscore_style? |
| 22:49 | tcohen | yes |
| 22:51 | cait | and plurals on table names i think |
| 22:52 | tcohen | OO style |
| 22:52 | and 'id' for primary key | |
| 22:53 | * tcohen | is reading the logs |
| 22:53 | tcohen | khall will propose the wording |
| 22:53 | maybe we should just vote/agree on following DBIC conventions and next meeting vote the wording | |
| 22:54 | cait | not sure what it implies, it does sound ok so far |
| 22:55 | tcohen | as eythian said, that horse has already bolted |
| 22:55 | no harm on having *any* naming convention | |
| 22:55 | cait | tcohen: now you want to make me use google translate? |
| 22:56 | gmcharlt | well, one question is whether anybody cares to make a committment to revise the schema to match |
| 22:56 | if not, then I think it would need to be very clear that any such convention applies only to new tables and columns | |
| 22:56 | cait | hm good point |
| 22:58 | bag | I could agree with new tables and columns |
| 22:58 | cait | i am not sure about the gain |
| 22:58 | bag | either way - it's still a pain in the a.. and you really have to have an idea of what you are looking for |
| 22:58 | eythian | I wonder if we can make dbic pretend like existing things have the properly styled names, to make renaming the actual existing tables/columns easier in the future. |
| 22:58 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 22:58 | cait | just changing to meet guidelines is difficult, we tend to introduce bugs, even with careful rewrites all the time |
| 22:59 | rangi | yeah, new ones seems ok, changing old ones seems like a way to make a mess |
| 22:59 | tcohen | gmcharlt: people like Yohann worked on moving from DBI to using DBIc, maybe we should encourage people doing that, to revisit the current table/column names |
| 23:00 | eythian: i like your idea, maybe we could ask khall to do some research on that | |
| 23:00 | (as part of the thread) | |
| 23:01 | cait | sorry much too late here, need to go |
| 23:01 | good night | |
| 23:01 | wahanui | If you feel like someone is looking through wahanui's window, it's OK, it's just me. |
| 23:01 | cait left #koha | |
| 23:01 | tcohen | night |
| 23:01 | gmcharlt | eythian: yeah, I think such aliasing would be doable |
| 23:01 | * bag | sent a note to khall |
| 23:02 | tcohen | can we say we agree new tables/columns should follow DBIc naming convention, and it should be written in the coding guidelines? |
| 23:03 | bag | 0 - no vote |
| 23:04 | tcohen | gmcharlt, eythian, rangi? |
| 23:04 | pianohacker? | |
| 23:04 | wahanui | I HATE XML |
| 23:04 | tcohen | heh |
| 23:04 | bag | HA |
| 23:04 | eythian | I think so, yeah |
| 23:04 | rangi | hmm yeah no opinion yet |
| 23:04 | 0 for me | |
| 23:04 | gmcharlt | I LOVE XML (... followed by cavets) |
| 23:04 | 0 for me | |
| 23:05 | bag | I vote 0 cause I'd like some research first |
| 23:05 | eythian | I also don't have a strong opinion on it :) |
| 23:05 | pianohacker | no opinion on the changing existing tables, but I am in favor of new ones following guidelines |
| 23:07 | tcohen | ok we agree we could have a coding guideline, and some research is needed to figure how a migration path would develop |
| 23:07 | ? | |
| 23:08 | bag | sure +1 |
| 23:08 | pianohacker | +1 |
| 23:08 | tcohen | #info there is a partial agreement on having coding guidelines that match DBIc ones, concerns raise about how to migrate existing tables/column names and research is needed |
| 23:09 | #topic Requirements for CLI scripts | |
| 23:09 | Topic for #koha is now Requirements for CLI scripts (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 23:09 | tcohen | Jonathan proposed some coding guidelines for CLI scripts |
| 23:09 | he proposes: | |
| 23:09 | - Pod::Usage | |
| 23:09 | - GetOpt::Long | |
| 23:09 | - call pod2usage if something wrong with the parameters | |
| 23:10 | - add the POD at the end of the file | |
| 23:10 | - the -c parameter to confirm the changes | |
| 23:10 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 23:11 | tcohen | JOubu mentioned gmcharlt asked CLI scripts to have a dry run mode too when he was MR |
| 23:11 | RM | |
| 23:11 | pianohacker | all of these are close enough to a de facto standard that I think enshrining them is an excellent idea |
| 23:11 | rangi | the only one |
| 23:11 | is -c | |
| 23:11 | thats pretty much universally used for config | |
| 23:11 | in the posix world | |
| 23:11 | tcohen | you're right |
| 23:12 | rangi | i think that might get confusing |
| 23:12 | gmcharlt | --run ? |
| 23:12 | pianohacker | rangi: isn't there a strong trend to use -f for that outside of coreutils? |
| 23:12 | eythian | why not --dryrun |
| 23:12 | dcook joined #koha | |
| 23:12 | eythian | or something like that |
| 23:12 | i.e. reversing the sense so that you're putting it into a test mode. | |
| 23:13 | pianohacker | eythian: a lot of the scripts where this might apply can be massive data shotguns if fat-fingered or used without understanding, I vote for keeping dry-run as the default |
| 23:14 | eythian | if you use it without understanding, you've got bigger problems anyway. |
| 23:14 | pianohacker | true, but it makes for angrier mailing list posts ;) |
| 23:14 | gmcharlt | an alternative might be adopting --dryrun, but also ensuring that just running the script without any parameters doesn't do anything except show the help |
| 23:14 | rangi | yeah |
| 23:14 | eythian | however, if it's dry run by default, it needs to make it _really_clear_, as there are some scripts that don't and it's very confusing. |
| 23:15 | gmcharlt | at least for the ones that would be destructive if (passively) misused |
| 23:15 | rangi | i like the do nothing without at least one param option |
| 23:15 | eythian | the linkbibstoauthorities is one offender, its output is actually different when it's in dryrun mode. |
| 23:15 | (in a way that you can't tell if it was going to do the right hting or not.) | |
| 23:15 | pianohacker | I like do-nothing-with-no-params regardless of dryrun being default or not |
| 23:16 | eythian | yeah |
| 23:16 | gmcharlt | at least in this case, there are a small enough number of such scripts that we can reasonably expect to ahve the tuits to bend them all to our will, whichever convention we decide on |
| 23:16 | eythian | almost everything has options anyway |
| 23:18 | pianohacker | I think we all agree on everything but dryrun; should we vote on the guidelines besides that portion? |
| 23:19 | tcohen | guys, need to leave, can anyone chair? |
| 23:19 | gmcharlt | I'll grab it |
| 23:19 | tcohen | thanks |
| 23:19 | #chair gmcharlt | |
| 23:19 | huginn | Current chairs: gmcharlt tcohen |
| 23:19 | gmcharlt | ok, I'll take up pianohacker's suggest |
| 23:20 | #startvote Shall we adopt the pod* & Getopt::Long sections of the propose CLI script guidelines? Yes, No, Abstain | |
| 23:20 | huginn | Begin voting on: Shall we adopt the pod* & Getopt::Long sections of the propose CLI script guidelines? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain. |
| 23:20 | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | |
| 23:20 | gmcharlt | #vote yes |
| 23:20 | pianohacker | #vote yes |
| 23:20 | tcohen | #vote yes |
| 23:21 | eythian | #vote yes |
| 23:21 | rangi | #vote yes |
| 23:21 | gmcharlt | kk |
| 23:21 | #endvote | |
| 23:21 | huginn | Voted on "Shall we adopt the pod* & Getopt::Long sections of the propose CLI script guidelines?" Results are |
| 23:21 | Yes (5): rangi, gmcharlt, tcohen, pianohacker, eythian | |
| 23:22 | gmcharlt | who wants to start a thread on koha-devel about --dryrun? eythian? |
| 23:22 | eythian | sure |
| 23:22 | gmcharlt | #action eythian will start a discussion on koha-devel about --dryrun behavior for CLI scripts |
| 23:23 | #topic Call for feedback | |
| 23:23 | Topic for #koha is now Call for feedback (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 23:24 | gmcharlt | #info Joubu is requesting feedback on bug 10860, which adds a "reading room"/"in house use" feature |
| 23:24 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10860 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , In-House Use |
| 23:27 | * gmcharlt | has now left some feedback |
| 23:27 | gmcharlt | any other comments on this before we move on? |
| 23:27 | eythian | it needed a better explanation, it wasn't until I got to dcook's comment that I figured it out. |
| 23:29 | rangi | ah yeah, i have nothing else to add |
| 23:29 | gmcharlt | in that case, perhaps it might be as easy as changing a few variable, column, and syspref names |
| 23:30 | moving on | |
| 23:30 | #topic Big stuff we are working on | |
| 23:30 | Topic for #koha is now Big stuff we are working on (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 23:30 | dcook | I heard my name |
| 23:30 | * dcook | perks up |
| 23:30 | gmcharlt | OK, watcha all doing? |
| 23:31 | rangi | ncip stuff is in uat testing with masscat, in the meantime its being refactored by dyrcona |
| 23:31 | but its always going to be a separate project, not merged with koha (like the SIP was) so it doesnt end up like the sip did | |
| 23:33 | gmcharlt | anything else? |
| 23:33 | also | |
| 23:33 | #info Feedback still being sought on the VAT/GST rewrite | |
| 23:34 | pianohacker | Rancor patches coming soon, with new macro languages, bugfixes and optional chrome running boards |
| 23:34 | * pianohacker | has to head out. Bye all! |
| 23:34 | dcook | I don't think I'm up to anything with Koha at the moment. Non-Koha projects and local stuff at the moment. |
| 23:35 | Actually, bbiab | |
| 23:35 | eythian | Elasticsearch is mosying along. I really ought to break out the bits I've had to build to support it, like Koha::Biblio and such. |
| 23:35 | they can go upstream separately. | |
| 23:35 | gmcharlt | great |
| 23:37 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 23:37 | gmcharlt | #topic Action items from previous meeting |
| 23:37 | Topic for #koha is now Action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 23:38 | gmcharlt | #info ashimema added a note to the wiki to encourage use of columns stuff for datatables |
| 23:38 | #info ashimema has started qa for UTF8 bug.. minimal comments left already | |
| 23:38 | #info gmcharlt and tcohen set deadline of 9/19 forwriting some unit tests for the utf8 bug | |
| 23:39 | #topic Next meeting | |
| 23:39 | Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 9 September 2014 (part 2)) | |
| 23:39 | gmcharlt | the first meeting has agreed on holding the next meeting the same time next week |
| 23:39 | any objections? | |
| 23:40 | rangi | none from me |
| 23:41 | gmcharlt | ok |
| 23:41 | #agreed We'll meet same time next week | |
| 23:41 | and... that's a wrap | |
| 23:41 | #endmeeting | |
| 23:41 | Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.16.3 is available! Next general meeting was 13 and 14 August 2014 at 22:00 and 15:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha http://koha-community.org. Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for pastes. | |
| 23:41 | huginn | Meeting ended Tue Sep 9 23:41:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 23:41 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-09-09-22.03.html | |
| 23:41 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-09-09-22.03.txt | |
| 23:41 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]09-22.03.log.html | |
| 23:41 | gmcharlt | thanks, everybody! |
| 23:58 | rocio left #koha |
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