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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
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| 06:18 | cait joined #koha | |
| 09:52 | * magnuse | waves silently |
| 09:53 | * cait | waves back quietly |
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| 14:34 | tcohen | morning |
| 14:35 | cait | morning tcohen |
| 14:44 | tcohen | how is your weekend cait? |
| 14:49 | cait | busy :) |
| 14:49 | travelling tomorrow and still lots to do | |
| 14:49 | and yours? | |
| 14:49 | wahanui | i heard yours was better actually |
| 14:53 | WNickC | Hi all |
| 14:53 | cait, can I ask a question about bug 10391 | |
| 14:53 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10391 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , specify due date remaining even if not selected |
| 14:59 | cait | sure? |
| 14:59 | WNickC | Just wondering if the clear button should clear date when 'remember for session' is checked |
| 15:00 | currently you have to clear and then checkout a book to keep the date from reappearing | |
| 15:00 | I didn't know if that was bug or feature | |
| 15:06 | cait | hm |
| 15:06 | and clear and unchecking the checkbox won't do it? | |
| 15:09 | WNickC | it will clear on the current screen, but if I load a new patron the date and box are filled again and I have to press clear and then checkout |
| 15:10 | so instead of setting it, using it for all patrons I need, then pressing clear | |
| 15:10 | I have to set it, use it for all patrons needed, load th enext patron, clear, and checkout a book | |
| 15:16 | cait | i am not sure |
| 15:16 | i think it might not directly be a bug, but it sounds like an ergonomic issue | |
| 15:23 | WNickC | okay, I will add a comment to the bug, it's not a huge issue for us, but it didn't feel quite like expected behaviour |
| 15:23 | thanks | |
| 16:07 | markvandenborre | what port does the user interface (not the admin interface) for koha normally listen on? |
| 16:08 | (I'm using the deb packages as provided at koha-community.org | |
| 16:08 | ) | |
| 16:14 | I want to browse the catalog | |
| 16:14 | I can see from zebra reindexing that there are a pile of records | |
| 16:14 | but I get no search results at all | |
| 16:14 | cait | the opac normally is on 80 |
| 16:16 | markvandenborre | maybe it got confused because there is a web server already running there... |
| 16:16 | cait | you need to deactivate the default site |
| 16:17 | markvandenborre | yup, will do |
| 16:17 | btw, still trying to get catalog search to work | |
| 16:17 | http://pastie.org/9162629 looks suspicious to me | |
| 16:17 | it looks as if it is trying to index multiple times after an error the first time | |
| 16:18 | and that that is the reason search is not working | |
| 16:18 | any hints on debugging this on a lower level? | |
| 16:22 | cait: thx, the user interface works perfectly now | |
| 16:22 | well, except that I can't see anything in the catalog, and no search | |
| 16:29 | cait | it looks like you have a bad record |
| 16:29 | are you using unimarc or marc21? | |
| 16:35 | markvandenborre? | |
| 16:35 | wahanui | well, markvandenborre is looking into a library system for a music academy |
| 16:37 | markvandenborre | cait: unimarc |
| 16:37 | and this one is strange too | |
| 16:37 | http://pastie.org/9162730 | |
| 16:38 | cait | that feature is no really been maintained |
| 16:38 | markvandenborre | I seem to create a table of records to be browsed |
| 16:38 | cait | or hasn't been in a longer while |
| 16:38 | i ma not sure how it works | |
| 16:38 | it's an extra feature | |
| 16:38 | markvandenborre | I want to see something in my catalog, quite desperately so even |
| 16:38 | I can search it perfectly fine using the | |
| 16:39 | cataloging search in the administrative interface | |
| 16:39 | but not at all using the normal searc | |
| 16:39 | h | |
| 16:39 | (also as an administrative user) | |
| 16:40 | and I cannot even browse the catalog in any way it seems | |
| 16:40 | cait | hm the cataoguing search is something different |
| 16:40 | how did you create your records? | |
| 16:40 | markvandenborre | staged marc import |
| 16:40 | wahanui | staged marc import is a good one to check |
| 16:40 | cait | ok |
| 16:40 | did you complete the upload and the second step | |
| 16:40 | ? | |
| 16:40 | markvandenborre | I think so, yesx |
| 16:41 | cait | when you go to tools - manage staged import |
| 16:41 | what status does your import batch show there? | |
| 16:41 | markvandenborre | imported, 2702 records |
| 16:41 | (for the latest batch) | |
| 16:41 | cait | ok, imported is ok |
| 16:42 | how did you install koha? | |
| 16:42 | markvandenborre | debian squeeze packages on debian wheezy |
| 16:42 | (there were no wheezy packages available yet) | |
| 16:44 | maybe I made some fundamental thinko | |
| 16:45 | about the rather idiosyncratic way (no offense at all!!!) library systems might be layered | |
| 16:45 | jcamins | markvandenborre: it sounds like you still have MARC21 records in your UNIMARC database. |
| 16:45 | View one of the records from the Staged MARC Records screen, and paste the MARC into paste.koha-community.org | |
| 16:46 | markvandenborre | jcamins: you make me realise that the problem _might_ be |
| 16:47 | that I couldn't properly delete all "dirty" records from the unimarc database | |
| 16:47 | jcamins | How many records should you have? |
| 16:47 | markvandenborre | I have 2 copies of the same dataset |
| 16:47 | one polluted one | |
| 16:47 | and a cleanly unimarc one | |
| 16:48 | is there a way to drop all of them and reimport? | |
| 16:49 | jcamins | Yeah, there's a faq on that somewhere. |
| 16:49 | faq? | |
| 16:49 | wahanui | faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/ |
| 16:49 | jcamins | Wait, no, appendix to the manual. |
| 16:49 | Oh, wait, yeah, FAQ. | |
| 16:49 | Under Installing/Upgrading. | |
| 16:51 | Okay, better go grocery shopping before my phone call. | |
| 16:51 | Good luck. | |
| 16:52 | markvandenborre | hm, something is wrong with that faq it seems, but thx anyway! |
| 16:52 | (a lot) | |
| 16:52 | jcamins | Use DELETE FROM, not TRUNCATE. |
| 16:52 | * cait | nods |
| 16:52 | jcamins | You have a newer version of MySQL. |
| 16:53 | DELETE FROM is slower, but works on all versions of MySQL/MariaDB. | |
| 16:53 | markvandenborre | it mentions foreign key constraints |
| 16:53 | jcamins | Anyway, I have two hours to go grocery shopping and get back on weekend trains, so good luck. |
| 16:53 | markvandenborre | ah, thx |
| 16:54 | good luck! | |
| 16:54 | if you're on uk trains, you will need it! | |
| 16:58 | * markvandenborre | is reading up about authority versus bibliographic records |
| 17:02 | markvandenborre | if I understand this correctly, the authority record is a "parent" kind of record |
| 17:02 | cait | hm not really |
| 17:02 | markvandenborre | with the bibliographic record describing more a kind of a "copy" of a book? |
| 17:02 | cait | well.. normally if we talk about children/parents i woudl tink of sth else |
| 17:03 | authority records are used to control terms | |
| 17:03 | markvandenborre | ok, but since we are talking one physical library with only one copy of any book in it ever |
| 17:03 | cait | like person |
| 17:03 | s | |
| 17:03 | you can create a authority record for ... a person | |
| 17:03 | markvandenborre | wikipedia about this? |
| 17:03 | cait | and then it can include all different name variations |
| 17:03 | like pseudonyms | |
| 17:04 | and that can be used to make seraching for a person more useful | |
| 17:04 | authorities are optional | |
| 17:04 | bilbiographic records and items is probably what you think about | |
| 17:04 | markvandenborre | ok, so I need this to bibliographic records |
| 17:05 | cait | the bibliographic record is the general description, the item is what your library has... with its specifics |
| 17:05 | call number, barcode, opac notes... whatever | |
| 17:05 | one bibliographic record can have n items | |
| 17:06 | markvandenborre | ok, so now we're here: http://pastie.org/9162801 |
| 17:06 | 2702 records seem to have been imported fine | |
| 17:06 | well, staged for import | |
| 17:07 | cait | now you need to import them |
| 17:07 | into the catalog | |
| 17:08 | markvandenborre | did that, http://pastie.org/9162809 |
| 17:08 | now I guess I have to explicitly make zebra index the thing | |
| 17:09 | cait | no ou shouldn't have to |
| 17:09 | it should happen sometime in the next 5 minutes | |
| 17:09 | if your koha is set up correctly | |
| 17:10 | markvandenborre | I did it explicitly, to get some feedback without going into /var/log |
| 17:10 | http://pastie.org/9162817 | |
| 17:10 | is what I got | |
| 17:10 | something seems to be wrong somewhere there... | |
| 17:11 | cait | yeah that does look like a problem with your records :( |
| 17:11 | i am no unimarc expert | |
| 17:11 | you might want to come back during the week | |
| 17:12 | markvandenborre | ok, so the best thing to do would probably use marc21? |
| 17:12 | almost everyone here seems to be using that... | |
| 17:13 | could that be useful? | |
| 17:14 | I seem to be using a rather exotic setup compared to other people in this channel, and this is only a virtual machine that should be a piece of cake to rebuild | |
| 17:15 | and get working | |
| 17:16 | cait | i am not sure why you picked unimarc in the first place |
| 17:16 | best is to use what the libraries in your area are using | |
| 17:18 | markvandenborre | that's why I picked unimarc in the first place |
| 17:18 | research seems to suggest that most of continental Europe uses that | |
| 17:18 | but it's really for such a small local library | |
| 17:19 | cait | hm that's not true |
| 17:19 | germany for example never used unimarc and switched to marc21 | |
| 17:19 | markvandenborre | Flanders, Belgium |
| 17:19 | cait | france and spain use unimarc i think, not sur eabout other countries |
| 17:19 | markvandenborre | Dutch speaking northern 55% of Belgium |
| 17:21 | cait | hm not sure about there |
| 17:21 | markvandenborre | just looked it up |
| 17:21 | marc21 | |
| 17:22 | http://www.bibnet.be/portaal/B[…]-Vlacc/Open_Vlacc (in Dutch) | |
| 17:22 | cait | but you will have to redo your records |
| 17:22 | becauase the fields are all different | |
| 17:22 | markvandenborre | redoing the mappings you mean, indeed |
| 17:23 | there's only six or seven fields, so that's manageable | |
| 17:23 | cait | and you need to recreate your instance for marc21 i think |
| 17:23 | it would be easiest | |
| 17:23 | markvandenborre | ah, right, I could keep the virtual machine and the koha installation |
| 17:24 | and just throw out the instance and create a new one you mean | |
| 17:24 | cait | yeah and make sure it's configured to marc21 |
| 17:25 | markvandenborre | cool, should save me some time |
| 17:29 | JesseM joined #koha | |
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| 17:46 | agatha joined #koha | |
| 18:09 | WNickC | so, some faqs mention git send-email, but git is not understanding that command, I assume I am missing something obvious |
| 18:19 | Oh, maybe i shoudl install git-email | |
| 18:19 | smh | |
| 18:20 | * markvandenborre | is looking for a marc21 code where I could put the instrument(s) for a piece of sheet music |
| 18:20 | markvandenborre | unimarc has something like that, but it seems marc21 has not |
| 18:20 | cait | WNickC: yep - you'd need to install it separately |
| 18:20 | but sending hte email is no longer strictly required | |
| 18:20 | markvandenborre | unless I am missing something here |
| 18:20 | cait | if you attach your patches to the bug that's ok |
| 18:20 | gmcharlt | markvandenborre: the 382 |
| 18:21 | * cait | waves at gmcharlt |
| 18:21 | gmcharlt | markvandenborre: http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd382.html |
| 18:21 | hi cait | |
| 18:22 | markvandenborre | thx gmcharlt |
| 18:25 | here's another special one that is hard to look for | |
| 18:26 | the library had its own utterly inconsistent and inconsistently applied numbering system for sheet music | |
| 18:26 | where should I dump that info? | |
| 18:26 | I guess into some kind of note in the 500 range, but maybe there's better options? | |
| 18:26 | WNickC | if I submit a ptach should I also take the bug? |
| 18:27 | markvandenborre | (I already need to dump some other things there) |
| 18:27 | cait | WNickC: if you fix it yep assign it to yourself |
| 18:28 | * markvandenborre | is looking, but nog finding anything useful immediately, especially as he needs to abuse "general notes" for something else |
| 18:29 | WNickC | done, terrifying, now I'll go read mor ewiki so I ask less silly questions |
| 18:35 | * markvandenborre | is looking at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd521.html and happy to have found 521 2 a |
| 18:35 | markvandenborre | any idea how to feed that to csvtomarc.pl? |
| 18:35 | 521_2_a? | |
| 18:35 | or just 521_a? | |
| 18:38 | ok, that was a stupid question of mine, sorry | |
| 18:38 | I'll just experiment | |
| 18:41 | jcamins | I'm not sure csvtomarc does indicators. |
| 18:44 | markvandenborre | it seems it doesn't, no harm done |
| 18:45 | I've been looking really hard now for a place to dump our inconsistent existing (sometimes non-existing) per-book code | |
| 18:45 | any suggestions about that? | |
| 18:45 | jcamins | You might consider item. |
| 18:45 | *an item | |
| 18:45 | Or a 001. | |
| 18:45 | * markvandenborre | looks at 001 (item would further complicate things it seems) |
| 18:46 | jcamins | Or a 090. |
| 18:46 | markvandenborre | err, 0xx only starts with 010? |
| 18:46 | jcamins | Or 084. |
| 18:46 | Right, because 001 is 00x. | |
| 18:47 | Yes, there is a reason, no you don't want to know it. | |
| 18:47 | markvandenborre | :-) |
| 18:48 | 090n seems the most free form I can imagine | |
| 18:48 | thx for the hint | |
| 18:54 | * markvandenborre | hapy |
| 18:54 | markvandenborre | happy even |
| 18:54 | things are working as they should | |
| 18:54 | thank you all! | |
| 18:57 | especially to cait, jcamins, talljoy and gmcharlt (hope I'm not forgetting anyone) | |
| 18:57 | this will really make a difference for a cash strapped small music academy | |
| 19:01 | a rather off topic question: | |
| 19:01 | does anyone know if imslp.org has a marc21 metadata set? | |
| 19:02 | it would be _so_ incredibly cool if we could integrate that into the school library | |
| 19:07 | * markvandenborre | is so stupid... feeding himself feature requests... |
| 19:19 | cait | I'd recommend one step after the other ;) |
| 19:21 | markvandenborre | :-) |
| 19:22 | in any case, I'm really happy about this step | |
| 19:22 | and my colleagues will be too | |
| 19:22 | if you think what they have to suffer now... | |
| 19:23 | 4 different iTunes versions without any central metadata management | |
| 19:23 | pdf documents stored on a file server that has been dying since 2010 | |
| 19:23 | on many machines the file server authentication is taking over a minute for some reason | |
| 19:24 | that and more... | |
| 19:24 | and in a bit over a week, they get a new server, with a working sheet music repository that they can reliably search | |
| 19:31 | cait | :) |
| 19:37 | @wunder cologne | |
| 19:37 | huginn | cait: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 19:37 | cait | @wunder Köln |
| 19:37 | huginn | cait: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 19:37 | cait | hm |
| 19:37 | @wunder Köln, Germany | |
| 19:37 | huginn | cait: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 19:42 | markvandenborre | @wunder Koeln, Deutschland |
| 19:42 | huginn | markvandenborre: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 19:42 | markvandenborre | cait: pity, no cigar |
| 19:43 | cait | @wunder Konstanz |
| 19:43 | huginn | cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.4°C (9:40 PM CEST on May 10, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). |
| 19:43 | cait | silly bot :) |
| 19:43 | * markvandenborre | grins |
| 19:43 | markvandenborre | I am looking for info on cover images now |
| 19:43 | I (will) have a pile of digital documents in 856u | |
| 19:44 | and for most sheet music, no ISMN yet | |
| 19:44 | cait | i think most cover services work only with isbn :( but maybe you are lucky |
| 19:44 | * markvandenborre | is naively hoping that there is a way for koha to pull the first page from that |
| 19:45 | markvandenborre | 856u pdf -> first page as cover image |
| 19:45 | cait | ah no |
| 19:45 | markvandenborre | rendered as png in browser |
| 19:45 | cait | koha won't do that |
| 19:45 | you'd have to create that yourself as a local cover image | |
| 19:45 | markvandenborre | ok |
| 19:45 | cait | koha will only show a link to it |
| 19:46 | markvandenborre | unless it can be pulled from an ISMN/ISBN service like librarything/amazon/...? |
| 19:46 | (the cover image) | |
| 19:46 | cait | yeah currently, oyu can also upload local cover images |
| 19:46 | but koha can't do magic from the urls :) | |
| 19:46 | markvandenborre | ok |
| 19:47 | can the local cover image also be a url? | |
| 19:47 | * markvandenborre | is looking at cover image docs |
| 19:47 | markvandenborre | for cover image docs |
| 19:48 | cait | look at the system prferences for catalog enrichment |
| 19:48 | I think there is a way t omake an image link in 856 display the image | |
| 19:48 | and maybe a sys ref search for 856 | |
| 19:50 | markvandenborre | cait: won't work, we really need the pdf to be 856u... |
| 19:50 | cait | 856 is repeatable |
| 19:51 | you can have multiple links in every record | |
| 19:52 | markvandenborre | ah, cool |
| 19:54 | I'm thinking about it should be trivial to write a small apache rule | |
| 19:54 | that makes a request for the pdf and generates a cover image on the fly | |
| 19:55 | lib.academy.blah/musicbook.pdf would grab the pdf | |
| 19:56 | and lib.academy.blah/musicbook.pdf.png (or something similar) would pull the first page from the pdf, turn it into a png and feed it back to the browser | |
| 19:58 | now I need to look at the interface for editors | |
| 20:03 | right now, I have a very limited subset of marc21 in use: code (090_n), titel (245_a), componist (100_a), instrument(382_a), graad (521_2_a), type (500_a) | |
| 20:05 | now we do want to add basic extra metadata of course, especially ISMN/ISBN | |
| 20:05 | but that's about it | |
| 20:05 | (apart from 856u for pdf and cover images) | |
| 20:05 | is there a way to dumb down the interface for adding content as much as possible? | |
| 20:07 | cait | yes |
| 20:08 | marc frameworks | |
| 20:08 | wahanui | marc frameworks is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/MARC_frameworks |
| 20:08 | cait | youcan hide all fields youdon't want to use |
| 20:09 | markvandenborre | cool, thx |
| 20:34 | cait: I see in my notes from the last time I tackled that | |
| 20:34 | something about a column "hidden" in the ods export | |
| 20:35 | cait | yes |
| 20:35 | markvandenborre | where some magic values are possible |
| 20:35 | cait | well kind of yes |
| 20:35 | markvandenborre | it seems there is a -6, -1, 0, 5 or 7 |
| 20:35 | cait | what I'd do is set a field to the value you want and then look up which number that is in the ods |
| 20:35 | markvandenborre | and -5 was - according to my notes- idden |
| 20:35 | cait | that sounds about right |
| 20:35 | markvandenborre | hidden |
| 20:36 | in order not to have to fiddle with it all, I think I'll copy paste it all to hidden | |
| 20:36 | and unhide a few | |
| 20:36 | the ones that i need | |
| 20:36 | and see where that gets me | |
| 20:37 | instead of manually redoing every single of 3961 fields | |
| 20:37 | that would not be my definition of fun... | |
| 20:45 | hm, that doesn't seem to hide everything... | |
| 20:52 | cait | where are you looking? |
| 20:52 | and I think you need to hide the field and the subfields | |
| 21:05 | markvandenborre | I found my way through it |
| 21:06 | I set the tab to -1 (ignore) for the unneeded ones, and to 0 for the relevant ones | |
| 21:06 | and I set "hidden" to -5 for the unneeded ones and to 0 for the relevant ones | |
| 21:07 | that did the trick | |
| 21:08 | do you know if it will hurt anything if I change the description string for theses specific marc21 fields in my custom framework? | |
| 21:08 | I'd like to change them to something more descriptive for our context, and to Dutch | |
| 21:12 | cait | no, that should not be a problem |
| 21:31 | markvandenborre | is there a way to change the default framework that people adding or modifying records use? |
| 21:31 | or should I just copy my framework changes into the default framework and hope for the best? | |
| 21:57 | hm, I try to add a new record to my catalog, but marc21 field 100a is locked for some reason | |
| 21:57 | all the others work no problem | |
| 21:57 | so I can't add the composer's name to the record | |
| 21:57 | cait | that's because you are supposed to create an authority record for it |
| 21:57 | using the plugin at the end of the field | |
| 21:58 | you can deactivate that, check the manual - if you want to keep it more simple, but authorities can be a nice tihng | |
| 21:58 | markvandenborre | I figured out more or less that part, but our secretary is really really humble in the way she can interact with computers |
| 21:59 | and I don't want to add any layer of complexity there | |
| 21:59 | or I will end up cleaning up the mess | |
| 21:59 | after her | |
| 21:59 | cait | you can work without authorities - might create more mess tho with typos and the like :) |
| 22:01 | markvandenborre | I will rely on my colleagues (users!) to iron those out |
| 22:01 | the comments function (it doesn't seem to be working, but I'll get to that later) | |
| 22:01 | cait | for example there might be all kind of different spellings for tschaikowsky (and not sure that is a valid one) |
| 22:01 | markvandenborre | seems to be really nice for that |
| 22:02 | cait | an authority record helps to improve search in those areas |
| 22:02 | markvandenborre | doesn't zebra do a kind of fuzzy search already? |
| 22:02 | cait | yeah |
| 22:02 | it does :) | |
| 22:02 | but it doesn't catch them all i think | |
| 22:03 | markvandenborre | obviously |
| 22:03 | jcamins | But it won't help if you use a spelling that isn't within one or two letters. |
| 22:03 | So Tschaikovsky and Chaikovskii definitely won't be found. | |
| 22:03 | And, actually, the fuzzy search has other issues. | |
| 22:07 | markvandenborre | I do see the added value of that approach in many contexts, but not here... |
| 22:13 | I seem to find BiblioAddsAuthorities and AutoCreateAuthorities in the prefs | |
| 22:13 | cait | markvandenborre: it's a setting int he bilbiographic framework |
| 22:13 | faq? | |
| 22:13 | wahanui | faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/ |
| 22:13 | cait | i think there is an entry on how to do it in the faq |
| 22:19 | markvandenborre | just changed the right setting, thx |
| 22:19 | BiblioAddsAuthorities it was | |
| 22:19 | cait | hm that won't deactivate it tho |
| 22:19 | that will add automatically i think | |
| 22:20 | markvandenborre | no, that would need autocreateauthorities to be on |
| 22:21 | as far as I understand the manual | |
| 22:21 | cait | ahhm |
| 22:21 | ok :) | |
| 22:21 | markvandenborre | BiblioAddsAuthorities allow |
| 22:21 | AutoCreateAuthorities disallow | |
| 22:21 | and there should be none of that kind of pollution | |
| 22:24 | thx all, and good night | |
| 22:25 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 22:50 | cait left #koha |
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