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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:03 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 00:11 | dcook joined #koha | |
| 00:20 | melia left #koha | |
| 00:39 | Irma left #koha | |
| 00:45 | libsysguy | what is the reason for the chanserv message on signin? |
| 00:46 | jcamins_away | What message? |
| 00:46 | wahanui | hmmm... message is a warning not an error. |
| 00:46 | libsysguy | i get a PM from chanserv every time i sign in |
| 00:46 | welcoming me to the koha board | |
| 00:47 | jcamins_away | Ah. No idea. |
| 00:48 | libsysguy | i just saw rangi get +o-ed by the same name |
| 00:48 | so i was just curious | |
| 01:00 | jcamins_away | This channel is managed by chanserv. |
| 01:01 | That keeps the channel from popping out of existence if everyone disconnects. | |
| 01:01 | I think. | |
| 01:01 | Guest3040 | libsysguy: ChanServ is part of OFTC's IRC Services (common on most IRC networks). It can be charged with a number of things, including the granting of channel operator status and the welcome message you received upon joining the channel. Someone with the proper credentials configured ChanServ to send that message, and to op rangi, etc. |
| 01:01 | oh dear. | |
| 01:01 | i seem to have lost my nick. | |
| 01:01 | jeff | that's NickServ's fault. ;-) |
| 01:02 | libsysguy | haha yeah i also get nickserv messages jeff |
| 01:02 | you have successfully authenticated :p | |
| 01:35 | tater joined #koha | |
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| 02:53 | alex_a1 joined #koha | |
| 02:59 | brylie joined #koha | |
| 03:14 | brylie joined #koha | |
| 03:23 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 03:23 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 03:23 | Greetings, dcook. | |
| 03:23 | Amit_Gupta joined #koha | |
| 03:26 | dcook | Hi ya mtompset :) |
| 03:26 | I'm just about to run off for lunch, but I hope your auth readings went well the other day | |
| 03:27 | mtompset | Still reading and reading. |
| 03:31 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 03:32 | mtompset | 3.4.8? I thought there was agreement to axe the 3.4? |
| 03:37 | brylie joined #koha | |
| 03:38 | mtompset | I just checked environment variables on our 3.6.3 system which is behind a proxy in firefox and IE, and my development VM in firefox and IE, and found that REMOTE_USER is not defined. |
| 03:38 | Is REMOTE_USER ever defined, and how? | |
| 03:41 | libsysguy1 joined #koha | |
| 03:44 | chris_n | off-topic a bit, but does anyone know of issues when using perl Socket in scripts run by apache? |
| 03:49 | mtompset | Sorry... no idea. |
| 03:51 | chris_n | it seems that a call to Socket via cgi consumes 99.9% of the quad-core cpu as well as 99.9% of available memory :-P |
| 03:52 | not nice.... | |
| 03:52 | mtompset | That makes no sense. |
| 03:53 | What are you running Socket for? | |
| 03:54 | chris_n | I've a script which acts as a client to connect to a port on a building automation system |
| 03:54 | I'm working on a web interface for the script | |
| 03:55 | mtompset | Make sure to sanitize your inputs. ;) |
| 03:55 | chris_n | right ;-) |
| 03:55 | mtompset | http://xkcd.com/327/ |
| 03:56 | * chris_n | briefly imagines librarians controling the HVAC systems in their libraries via koha |
| 03:56 | chris_n | lol |
| 03:57 | mtompset | Interesting thought, but a tad out of scope for Koha, don't you think? :) |
| 03:59 | chris_n | probably for all but the most exotic control freaks |
| 04:05 | mtompset | Shhhh! Their listening. ;) |
| 04:07 | Ah, I think I found the answer to my question about REMOTE_USER. | |
| 04:08 | http://www.cgi101.com/class/ch3/text.html | |
| 04:08 | Leads me to believe that REMOTE_USER is only defined if there was .htaccess authentication on the directory. | |
| 04:17 | Koha doesn't use .htaccess authentication at all anymore, does it?! | |
| 04:53 | cait joined #koha | |
| 04:54 | cait | hi #koha |
| 04:57 | mtompset | Greetings, cait. |
| 04:58 | I'm still tinkering with the labyrinth of doom, cait. | |
| 04:58 | Can I blame you? ;) | |
| 04:58 | cait | why me? :) |
| 04:59 | mtompset | Wasn't it you and rangi that sent me in? :P |
| 05:02 | Oh wait... this is the maze of doom that jcamins suggested I enter... never mind. This is Auth, not Search. | |
| 05:03 | dcook | I'm looking at Search now :P |
| 05:03 | Mind you, it's a local customization, so I can't get too grumpy.. | |
| 05:10 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 05:10 | * Oak | waves |
| 05:17 | mtompset | Greetings, Oak. |
| 05:17 | Long time, no chat. How are things over there? | |
| 05:18 | Oak | hello mtompset :) |
| 05:19 | things are okay here. i hope you are good. | |
| 05:19 | mtompset | As good as can be, I suppose. |
| 05:20 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 05:20 | dcook | hi Oak :) |
| 05:21 | * dcook | celebrates finding the solution to his problem. |
| 05:21 | mtompset | Congratulations, dcook. |
| 05:21 | dcook | Thanks :) |
| 05:22 | mtompset | It would be better if wasn't a localized problem, and then you could help the rest of us too. ;) |
| 05:22 | dcook | We have two very similar functions in two separate modules, and we weren't populating a variable in one of them, which caused a total (but very unnoticeable) failure |
| 05:22 | Hehe | |
| 05:22 | True! | |
| 05:22 | It might be one I spin back to the community, but it would require some adjustments | |
| 05:23 | Essentially, it puts a link in the search results. If there is just one link in the bib record, it replicates that. If there are multiple, it takes you into the record (and just acts like a pointer). | |
| 05:24 | On top of that, we've added an onclick event to prompt users to log in, if the link is for a database requiring authentication | |
| 05:25 | It looks like the idea is to use a single sign-on, although I don't think it's gotten that far yet.. | |
| 05:26 | Hmm, yeah...just a note that further authentication is needed. | |
| 05:26 | * dcook | shrugs |
| 05:26 | dcook | Probably not that useful |
| 05:27 | mtompset | And that is the maze I'm looking at right now, dcook... SSO, authentication, SAML 2.0 |
| 05:31 | dcook | Mmm, hence that earlier question about REMOTE_USER |
| 05:31 | I would love to know the answer to the whole auth situation | |
| 05:31 | Mind you, I'm sure everyone would :p | |
| 05:32 | What are you trying to do? | |
| 05:41 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 05:41 | mtompset | first, understand what is there. |
| 05:41 | second, figure out how to either: | |
| 05:42 | 1) rewrite the mess (which has been suggested to me several times) | |
| 05:42 | or | |
| 05:42 | 2) hack in SAML 2.0 authentication. | |
| 05:43 | I'm at checkauth in C4::Auth... | |
| 05:43 | I've thought that we don't use .htaccess authentication, and the first if might not be necessary any more. | |
| 05:44 | I'm working at understanding CGI::Session. | |
| 05:44 | Slowly but surely, I'll understand this code. | |
| 05:44 | once understood, then I'll be in a position to understand what to do with respect to SAML 2.0 authentication. | |
| 05:48 | dcook | Power to you! |
| 05:48 | The customization I just mentioned.. | |
| 05:49 | We also set a system preference based on the base URL of the link in the record, so when you click the link for a specific website, you can get a pop-up telling you a username and password that you've stored in your syspref | |
| 05:49 | Of course, this only works for storing 1 u/n and p/w, but it looks like how we're getting around actual remote authentication | |
| 05:50 | Not a terrible solution for small special libraries | |
| 05:50 | * mtompset | cringes, "Functional, but ugly if you want to scale." |
| 05:50 | dcook | No kidding, eh? |
| 05:51 | That's why you're working on Auth ;) | |
| 05:51 | mtompset | 'eh?' -- Why did you say 'eh?'? |
| 05:52 | Seems like others are as well, and I suspect they'll succeed before I do, but at least I'll understand the mess. | |
| 05:53 | dcook | Understanding is always good :) |
| 05:54 | mtompset | Understanding is necessary to make better changes. |
| 05:54 | dcook | Very true |
| 05:54 | wahanui | I know. That's why I said it. |
| 05:54 | dcook | That's my goal :) |
| 05:54 | As for "eh", I'm Canadian :p | |
| 05:55 | I'm pretty sure other people in the world say it as well, but it's a (semi-)stereotypical expression that we say from time to time. | |
| 05:56 | It doesn't really mean anything. And it's not a question. The ? mark just denotes rising intonation when we're speaking | |
| 05:56 | mtompset | Okay, you weren't saying as a Canadian jab... -- Greetings, fellow Canadian. :) |
| 05:57 | dcook | :o |
| 05:57 | mtompset | Which province? |
| 05:57 | (or territory) | |
| 05:57 | dcook | Good question |
| 05:58 | Born and raised in Saskatchewan, but most recently of Vancouver, BC | |
| 05:58 | (as if it were its own province :P) | |
| 05:58 | You? | |
| 05:58 | wahanui | You are welcome, I also tried the other - moving js out of translated paths |
| 05:58 | stuartyeates joined #koha | |
| 05:58 | mtompset | Ontario. |
| 05:58 | I studied out in Langley, BC. But somehow everyone does seem to equate Vancouver as B.C. | |
| 05:59 | dcook | It's hard not to sometimes. |
| 05:59 | Where in Ontario are you from? | |
| 05:59 | I've bounced all over Sk, myself | |
| 05:59 | mtompset | Doesn't everyone equate Toronto with Ontario? ;) |
| 06:00 | dcook | I was totally going to say Toronto, but I thought better of it :p |
| 06:01 | You're in the Philippines now though, right? What takes you there? | |
| 06:03 | mbalmer joined #koha | |
| 06:04 | mtompset | Well, Greater-Toronto-Area. No sense saying the Town's name. |
| 06:05 | My organization seconded me to SIL Asia Area whose headquarters are here. | |
| 06:05 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 06:05 | dcook | Fair enough |
| 06:05 | mtompset | I'm in the Philippines until November. |
| 06:06 | dcook | That's rather exciting |
| 06:06 | I originally came to Australia on a 6 month work term, but now it looks like I'll be working with Koha here for at least the next few years | |
| 06:08 | mtompset | Well, I had worked here before in my previous assignment. I met my wife here. So, it's like my second home now. :) |
| 06:08 | dcook | Sounds like a classic story |
| 06:09 | I met my partner a few months ago, and while I have to go back to Canada for a few months at the end of the year, Australia is certainly my second home as well now | |
| 06:12 | Amit_Gupta | heya dcook |
| 06:13 | mveron joined #koha | |
| 06:14 | mveron | Good morning #koha |
| 06:14 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 06:14 | mtompset | Greetings, Amit_Gupta and mveron. |
| 06:15 | mveron | Hi mtompset |
| 06:15 | dcook | hey Amit_Gupta |
| 06:15 | wahanui | Amit_Gupta is from Nucsoft Osslabs |
| 06:16 | dcook | Allo mveron |
| 06:16 | mveron | Hi dcook |
| 06:17 | Just submitted patch for bug 7628 - Looking for someone to sign off :-) | |
| 06:18 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7628 normal, P3, ---, veron, Needs Signoff , Required format is not enforced for Patron Categories |
| 06:19 | * dcook | will take a look |
| 06:19 | mveron | Thanks, dcook. |
| 06:20 | dcook | No worries. While I look at that, might you take a look at one of mine as well? |
| 06:22 | It's pretty simple, but I think Bug 8448 would be a good one to get out | |
| 06:22 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8448 major, P2, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Holds Awaiting Pickup : Cancelling a hold on a waiting item with multiple holds displays a blank screen instead of a warning prompt |
| 06:22 | mveron | dcook: OK, will do... |
| 06:22 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 06:23 | dcook | I'm just adding a test scenario comment |
| 06:23 | I haven't signed off before, so it might take me a bit, but I'm looking forward to it! | |
| 06:23 | * dcook | stops being a newb now |
| 06:23 | dcook | for now* |
| 06:24 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 06:25 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 06:25 | dcook | salut, alex_a |
| 06:26 | Amit_Gupta | heya alex_a |
| 06:43 | julian_m joined #koha | |
| 06:44 | julian_m | hello |
| 06:44 | wahanui | what's up, julian_m |
| 06:46 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 06:46 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:46 | wahanui | hi, reiveune |
| 06:47 | clrh | jcamins_away: I saw you message, I think you are talking about "rfc search engine" I will check it |
| 06:55 | dcook | Question...when using git bz to test a patch, is the warning "warning: 3 lines add whitespace errors. " significant? |
| 06:58 | logbot joined #koha | |
| 07:04 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 07:04 | gaetan_B | hello :) |
| 07:04 | dcook | mverson, it looks good, but git is telling me that you have some trailing whitespaces |
| 07:04 | mveron * | |
| 07:04 | hey gaetan_B | |
| 07:04 | wahanui | gaetan_B is working at Biblibre and did the nice new start page together with asaurat or a fan of icons |
| 07:04 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 07:05 | mveron | dcook: The white spaces were corrected automatically by git bz, as far as I know. The message is OK. |
| 07:05 | dcook | Sounds good to me. |
| 07:06 | eythian joined #koha | |
| 07:07 | mveron | dcook: Still testing on your bug. Will take a moment. |
| 07:08 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 07:09 | Amit_Gupta | heya paul_p |
| 07:09 | dcook | No worries, mveron |
| 07:10 | It looks like I screwed up my sign off... | |
| 07:20 | There we go, mveron. It's the first patch that I've signed off, so I've left a bit of a mess in trying to do it right. Sorry for all the comments and obsolete attachments. | |
| 07:23 | mveron | dcook: Great, thanks a lot! - You are faster then I was with my first SO. Only thing to do now is to switch status from Needs Sign-off to Signed off. |
| 07:24 | dcook | I believe that I have :) |
| 07:26 | paul_p | good morning #koha |
| 07:27 | dcook | morning, paul_p |
| 07:31 | paul_p | evening dcook |
| 07:39 | dcook | Time for me to call it a night! As much as I would like to work on Koha all night, I had best be home to pack up my flat! |
| 07:39 | Au revoir | |
| 08:04 | jenkins_koha | Starting build #98 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 08:12 | cait-m__ joined #koha | |
| 08:13 | cait-m__ | hi all |
| 08:15 | cait-m__ joined #koha | |
| 08:17 | slef | hi cait-m__ |
| 08:23 | eythian_ joined #koha | |
| 08:23 | reiveune1 joined #koha | |
| 08:23 | asaurat1 joined #koha | |
| 08:32 | julian_m joined #koha | |
| 08:34 | cait-m__ joined #koha | |
| 08:35 | * mtompset | grumbles, "It is so much easier to read and fix other people's code. Why can't I get this simple object inheritance working?!" |
| 08:35 | mtompset | Greetings, cait-m__ |
| 08:36 | Greetings, julian_m | |
| 08:36 | julian_m | hello mtompset |
| 08:39 | mtompset | have you written anything that does class inheritance in perl, julian_m? |
| 08:39 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 08:40 | rangi | ISA |
| 08:40 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 08:40 | eythian joined #koha | |
| 08:40 | mtompset | I did somthing like that. |
| 08:40 | our @ISA = qw(MyAuth); | |
| 08:41 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 08:41 | mtompset | where the file that has this is MyAuth/MyAuth1.pm and MyAuth.pm is being referred to. |
| 08:41 | I don't want to write a new() for Auth1, Auth2, etc. | |
| 08:41 | rangi | hmm not quiet |
| 08:41 | quite even | |
| 08:43 | mtompset | Suggestions, rangi? |
| 08:43 | rangi | use base qw(MyAuth)l |
| 08:43 | typo l = ; | |
| 08:43 | mtompset | okay... I'll try that. |
| 08:44 | rangi | if you are rewritting auth, id start in Koha |
| 08:44 | Koha::Auth | |
| 08:44 | Koha::Auth::Native | |
| 08:44 | Koha::Auth::Shibboleth | |
| 08:44 | etc | |
| 08:44 | mtompset | I'm playing with classes first, since I'm weak in them. |
| 08:45 | rangi | youve read the perl oop pages eh? |
| 08:45 | mtompset | Yes, but they sometimes leave more questions than help. |
| 08:45 | rangi | http://perldoc.perl.org/perlootut.html |
| 08:47 | mtompset | That still doesn't work. |
| 08:47 | Tell's me I haven't defined new. | |
| 08:48 | Let's see... where's a pastebin when you want one. | |
| 08:48 | paste? | |
| 08:48 | wahanui | paste is found at http://paste.koha-community.org |
| 08:48 | pastebot | "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "MyAuth1.pm attempt" (16 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/36 |
| 08:49 | rangi | you dont want that @ISA if you are using base |
| 08:49 | mtompset | Ah. |
| 08:50 | okay... cutting and checking. | |
| 08:50 | rangi | and without seeing MyAuth i cant tell if that will work |
| 08:50 | mtompset | Still says it can't find new. |
| 08:50 | Okay... | |
| 08:50 | next paste... | |
| 08:50 | rangi | take a look in C4/Cache.pm |
| 08:50 | an C4/Cache/Memcached.pm | |
| 08:50 | eythian | I'm wondering if we're going to do this OO thing properly, we should decide on a framework for it. Perl |
| 08:51 | ... | |
| 08:51 | Perl | |
| 08:51 | gah | |
| 08:51 | Perl's default OO is a bit funky. | |
| 08:51 | rangi | i use Class::Accessor |
| 08:51 | mtompset | Yes, but I should know it. |
| 08:52 | pastebot | "mtompset" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "MyAuth.pm "parent"" (41 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/37 |
| 08:54 | julian_m joined #koha | |
| 08:57 | hemant joined #koha | |
| 08:57 | hemant | hi |
| 08:57 | wahanui | hola, hemant |
| 08:58 | hemant | i m a new user of koha can u help me |
| 08:58 | u there? | |
| 08:58 | wahanui | hmmm... there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code |
| 08:59 | hemant | i want add books |
| 08:59 | then how? | |
| 09:00 | ?? | |
| 09:00 | rangi | manual? |
| 09:00 | wahanui | well, manual is at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation |
| 09:01 | rangi | what version of koha hemant ? |
| 09:02 | hemant | 3.06.05.000 |
| 09:04 | hi | |
| 09:06 | u there? | |
| 09:06 | wahanui | it has been said that there is no spoon. or something like the second with holes like the first... or a patch from jared soemwhere removing some of the nozebra code |
| 09:06 | rangi | http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/ |
| 09:06 | wahanui | i think http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/ is the whole manual |
| 09:07 | hemant | thx |
| 09:08 | jenkins_koha | Project Koha_3.8.x build #98: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.8.x/98/ |
| 09:08 | * oleonard: Fix for Bug 6855 - List bullet showing in wrong place on error message | |
| 09:08 | * oleonard: Bug 8398 - Missing image file in staff global css | |
| 09:08 | * jcamins: Bug 8386: Error in duplicate detection message for authorities | |
| 09:08 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6855 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , bullet point showing in wrong place on error message |
| 09:08 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8398 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Missing image file in staff global css | |
| 09:08 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8386 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Error in duplicate detection message for authorities | |
| 09:11 | Amit_Gupta | heya hemant |
| 09:11 | hemant | yes amit |
| 09:12 | from india amit? | |
| 09:12 | Amit_Gupta | yes |
| 09:12 | hemant | from where? |
| 09:12 | Amit_Gupta | Bangalore and you |
| 09:12 | ? | |
| 09:12 | hemant | Delhi |
| 09:12 | Amit_Gupta | which library |
| 09:13 | mtompset_ joined #koha | |
| 09:13 | hemant | i Do"t know under stand ing this systems |
| 09:14 | can u help me? | |
| 09:14 | amit | |
| 09:15 | Amit_Gupta | r u from which library |
| 09:15 | hemant | centerville |
| 09:19 | * eythian | is not convinced that's correct. |
| 09:29 | * mtompset | waves bye for now. |
| 09:35 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 09:39 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 09:39 | mtompset | @wunder EDI |
| 09:39 | huginn | mtompset: The current temperature in Mid Kinleith, Currie, United Kingdom is 11.7°C (10:39 AM BST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady). |
| 09:40 | mtompset | Is the meeting over or elsewhere? |
| 09:43 | Amit_Gupta | @wunder Bangalore |
| 09:43 | huginn | Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 23.0°C (11:30 AM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. |
| 09:43 | Amit_Gupta | @wunder New Delhi |
| 09:43 | huginn | Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 40.0°C (2:30 PM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 33%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Falling). |
| 09:43 | Amit_Gupta | @wunder Dehradun |
| 09:43 | huginn | Amit_Gupta: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 32.0°C (11:30 AM IST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.41 in 996 hPa. |
| 09:44 | drojf | mtompset: Current UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Mittwoch, 18. Juli 2012, 09:42:21. so i guess it's in 20 minutes |
| 09:44 | thanks for reminding me :D | |
| 09:44 | mtompset | Can I get my karma back? :P |
| 09:44 | drojf | mtompset++ # best meeting reminder ever |
| 09:45 | mtompset | is there a meeting agenda somewhere? |
| 09:45 | drojf | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing,_18_July_2012 |
| 09:46 | mtompset | ++drojf |
| 09:46 | thanks. | |
| 09:49 | Amit_Gupta | hi |
| 09:49 | wahanui | hi, Amit_Gupta |
| 09:50 | stuartyeates left #koha | |
| 09:52 | eythian | lunchtime is a terrible time for a meeting |
| 09:52 | drojf | it's always lunchtime somewhere |
| 09:52 | cjh | heh |
| 09:55 | mtompset | ++drojf++ work? ;) |
| 09:58 | Yes, it's always lunchtime somewhere. And if we move fast enough, we could have lunch forever! ;) | |
| 09:59 | thd | However, 6 AM is a fine time for a meeting. |
| 09:59 | Amit_Gupta | 3:30 pm here in india |
| 09:59 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 09:59 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 09:59 | Amit_Gupta | heya jwagner |
| 09:59 | Brooke | o/ |
| 09:59 | Amit_Gupta | heya brooke |
| 09:59 | drojf | hi Brooke |
| 10:00 | jwagner | Good morning or whatever time of day it is... |
| 10:00 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 10:00 | Brooke | #startmeeting |
| 10:00 | wahanui | if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me |
| 10:00 | huginn | Meeting started Wed Jul 18 10:00:30 2012 UTC. The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 10:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | |
| 10:00 | slef | mmm lunch... not for 2h and I've no food with me :/ |
| 10:00 | Brooke | #introductions |
| 10:00 | Topic for #koha is now introductions | |
| 10:01 | slef | Brooke: not #topic? |
| 10:01 | Brooke | #topic introductions |
| 10:01 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 10:01 | Topic for #koha is now introductions | |
| 10:01 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries |
| 10:01 | jwagner | #info Jane Wagner LibLime/PTFS |
| 10:01 | Brooke | slef: half the time I get to do both ;) |
| 10:01 | drojf | #info Mirko Tietgen, Language centre @ HU Berlin, Germany |
| 10:01 | slef | #info MJ Ray, software.coop, mobile in England :/ |
| 10:01 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogne, New York City |
| 10:02 | davidnind | #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand |
| 10:02 | mtompset | #info Mark Tompsett, SIL Asia Area, based in Philippines |
| 10:02 | dpavlin | #info Dobrica Pavlinusic, Croatia |
| 10:02 | eythian | #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT |
| 10:03 | paul_p | #info paul_p Marseille, BibLibre, France, current Koha RM |
| 10:03 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 10:03 | paul_p | good (early) morning USA ! |
| 10:03 | thd | s/Agogne/Agogme/ |
| 10:03 | slef | (standing in line at the bank) |
| 10:04 | Amit_Gupta | #info Amit gupta Nucsoft |
| 10:05 | Brooke | #topic Announcements |
| 10:05 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements | |
| 10:06 | thd | ALA would like to announce that MARC was murdered at their executive meeting. |
| 10:06 | oleonard | Agenda: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_July_2012#Agenda |
| 10:06 | thd | MARC's ghost is recovering ;0 |
| 10:06 | Brooke | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing,_18_July_2012 |
| 10:06 | speaking of that sort of thing... | |
| 10:07 | #topic Roadmap for 3.4 | |
| 10:07 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.4 | |
| 10:07 | Brooke | Are we killing this? |
| 10:07 | mtompset | I thought that was the consensus from what I read of last meetings logs. |
| 10:07 | slef | who's rm? polled the list? |
| 10:08 | oleonard | Did we even have a quorum last time? |
| 10:08 | Brooke | don't believe it has one |
| 10:08 | #help someone poll the list about end of life for 3.4 | |
| 10:08 | thd | Brooke, it is never necessary to formally kill a branch. Branches like standards die their own quiet death eventually. |
| 10:08 | eythian | I kinda thought that 3.4 would have dies when 3.8 came out. |
| 10:08 | Brooke | we don't have a formal quorum Owen, so it's a bit hard to count if we've got one. |
| 10:08 | slef | (sorry, slow web here) |
| 10:09 | eythian | thd: I think it's good too kill them, just to announce that people should be moving now. |
| 10:09 | slef | if anyone wants to fund 3.4 rm nd someone will workl on it, let them, else call it orphaned? |
| 10:09 | paul_p | I think Koha 3.4 is de-facto orphaned |
| 10:09 | oleonard | It should at least be known that there will be no more releases unless someone takes charge of it |
| 10:10 | Brooke | I'm pretty sure someone sent that out to listserv months back, lemme see if I can dig it up |
| 10:10 | thd | Exactly, orphans are merely orphaned. There is no need to try to kill them. |
| 10:10 | eythian | I'm of the opinion it'd be best to declare an end-of-life for things like that. |
| 10:10 | slef | paul_p: make it official, encourage more upgrades |
| 10:10 | eythian | thd: there is, or people don't know they're orphaned |
| 10:10 | paul_p | slef agreed |
| 10:11 | thd | We should announce an orphan but not a killing. |
| 10:11 | Killing is unnecessary. | |
| 10:11 | ... and mean. | |
| 10:11 | oleonard | If no one has done it by then I'll send a message to the list in 3hrs. We can have the discussion there |
| 10:11 | eythian | Too many people are still using old versions as it is. |
| 10:12 | Brooke | think this is exhausted |
| 10:12 | slef | see |
| 10:12 | Brooke | #topic Roadmap to 3.6 |
| 10:12 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.6 | |
| 10:13 | slef | #link http://www.debian.org/wnpp for debian Orphan and RFA examples |
| 10:13 | thd | Announce that the orphans are exhausted. |
| 10:13 | paul_p | slef = page not found :\ |
| 10:13 | oleonard | A few beatings usually eke out a little more effort from exhausted orphans |
| 10:13 | thd | :) |
| 10:14 | Brooke | #info there will be no more porridge for 3.4 |
| 10:14 | anyone have anything on 3.6 | |
| 10:14 | slef | paul_p: drat. |
| 10:14 | eythian | There's now a debian repo tracking 3.4 |
| 10:15 | err | |
| 10:15 | 3.6 | |
| 10:15 | paul_p | eythian = debian repo ? which url ? |
| 10:15 | Brooke | Sweet As, bro. :) |
| 10:15 | slef | #link http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp for debian Orphan and RFA examples |
| 10:15 | eythian | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze <-- the usual place |
| 10:16 | Which means we have packages for oldstable (3.6) squeeze (3.8) and squeeze-dev (master) | |
| 10:16 | I know those names don't make sense. | |
| 10:16 | slef | docs > sense |
| 10:17 | Brooke | any other noteworthy 3.6 news? |
| 10:18 | mtompset | There was a string freeze announced recently for 3.6.7 coming out shortly. |
| 10:19 | paul_p | dashboard says 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.6.7 |
| 10:19 | Brooke | #info There's a Debian repo tracking |
| 10:19 | paul_p | and 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.6.7 |
| 10:19 | Brooke | #info and 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.6.7 |
| 10:19 | #info 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.6.7 | |
| 10:19 | #info http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze for the repo link | |
| 10:20 | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze | |
| 10:20 | sorry, want to get all of that in the minutes, so I've to be a bit spammy :) | |
| 10:20 | julian_m joined #koha | |
| 10:21 | paul_p | Brooke = I think it's better for readers of minutes to have it, so it's not spammy imo |
| 10:21 | joann joined #koha | |
| 10:21 | Brooke | anything else on 3.6 or are we movin' on? |
| 10:22 | paul_p | move on ! |
| 10:22 | mtompset | Only jcamins would have more. |
| 10:22 | Brooke | crawlin' out of the stone age then... |
| 10:22 | #topic Roadmap for 3.8 | |
| 10:22 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.8 | |
| 10:24 | davidnind | 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.8.3 |
| 10:24 | 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.8.3 | |
| 10:25 | slef | can someone repaste that with #info please? |
| 10:25 | Brooke | #info 2012-07-15 - String freeze for 3.8.3 |
| 10:25 | you're someone too slef :P | |
| 10:25 | #info 2012-07-22 - Release date for 3.8.3 | |
| 10:25 | slef | yeah bopy paste while walking from post office to bakery not good |
| 10:25 | drojf | lol |
| 10:25 | slef | even typing not good |
| 10:26 | and I've one of the kohacon signs tied to my back ;) | |
| 10:26 | JanetGreig joined #koha | |
| 10:27 | Brooke | rangi have anything to add? |
| 10:27 | paul_p | rangi sleeping it seems ;-) |
| 10:28 | Brooke | lies, he never sleeps, and I've reams of IRC logs to show it |
| 10:28 | he, like Galen, is prolly a bot... | |
| 10:28 | slef | left bakery - sorry if you wanted anything |
| 10:28 | mtompset | I don't believe he did an intro, so probably not likely to add anything. :) |
| 10:29 | thd | mtompset++ |
| 10:29 | Brooke | #topic Roadmap for 3.10 |
| 10:29 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap for 3.10 | |
| 10:29 | * slef | pokes you |
| 10:29 | Brooke | take it away paul |
| 10:29 | paul_p | yep, i'm here -and not a bot- ;-) |
| 10:29 | mtompset | thank you, thd. |
| 10:30 | * oleonard | thanks paul_p for being here |
| 10:30 | * mtompset | scowls at slef. ;) |
| 10:30 | paul_p | You've seen in my previous monthly RM newsletter that a very important patch has been pushed, to start the move to solr. |
| 10:30 | it causes jenkins to be unstable atm, but that's a not a "big" unstability, and there are some patches underway to fix it. | |
| 10:30 | slef | move to, or move to add support for? |
| 10:31 | oleonard | the latter |
| 10:31 | slef | phew |
| 10:31 | paul_p | for now, my main concern is bug 8251 that we haven't killed yet, and is a big problem for all libraries using fines in days |
| 10:31 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8251 critical, P1 - high, ---, koha, Passed QA , Patrons are systematically debarred at checkin |
| 10:31 | Brooke | which would be like heaps of libraries :( |
| 10:32 | paul_p | this bug is mostly caused by the switch to hourly loan, and changes in date comparisons. |
| 10:32 | for now, 4 patches have been submitted to fix the problem, but it still not fixed. I plan to work this afternoon on this one. | |
| 10:32 | (and it's a 3.8 problem, because 3.8 has the bug !) | |
| 10:33 | slef | paul_p++ and should that be a blocker for 3.10? |
| 10:33 | paul_p | I've started a thread on koha-devel about release process, a lot of discussion here, I think i'll continue the discussion soon. |
| 10:33 | Brooke | #help help Paul with bug 8251 - libraries that record fines in days really need you! |
| 10:33 | * mtompset | notes that is a reason why we're only upgrading to 3.6.7 next. |
| 10:33 | paul_p | slef = I strongly hope it will be before 3.10 !!! |
| 10:35 | The pile of ENH waiting for a signoff is very large, and I wouldn't like to see all of them being signed-off & passing QA & pushed too close from the release. | |
| 10:35 | Brooke | paul I have stuff for this under its proper topic. Don't let me forget :) |
| 10:35 | paul_p | that's the problem the thread still don't address |
| 10:36 | saying 2 months before the release "I won't push any ENH" mean that the freeze will occur in august, 22, which is "tomorrow" | |
| 10:36 | I don't want to do that. | |
| 10:37 | OTOH, ppl seem not to be happy with the idea of saying .0 is a announced as beta | |
| 10:37 | is there a 3rd option ? which one ? | |
| 10:37 | that's my biggest point for 3.10 for now. | |
| 10:38 | Brooke | #info problem with release cycle |
| 10:38 | paul_p | another one = I had not a lot of feedback on my POC for thread "http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]oha_Namespace_RFC, moving ahead" |
| 10:38 | mtompset | So when is 3.10 tentatively coming out? |
| 10:39 | paul_p | mtompset = that's my personal debate atm ! |
| 10:39 | either keep oct 22, say there will be a 2 months freeze for large enh, meaning everything must be in before aug, 22 | |
| 10:40 | or keep oct 22 as .0 release, but clearly announce it will be a beta | |
| 10:40 | or a 3rd option I don't see atm | |
| 10:40 | (4th option = change nothing, but I think it's not a good option !) | |
| 10:41 | slef | paul_p: why 2mo freeze? could we shorten if lots pledge to test+fix a lot? |
| 10:41 | paul_p: and can we be braver at reverting buggy enh? | |
| 10:41 | paul_p | slef = it has been proven for 3.4 and 3.8 that it does not work well |
| 10:41 | mtompset | pledges don't mean anything. Don't count the chickens before they hatch. |
| 10:41 | eythian_ joined #koha | |
| 10:41 | paul_p | slef = it's hard to revert ENH, because they usually have DB updates |
| 10:41 | Brooke | we could do a 9 or 12 month release cycle #justsayin |
| 10:41 | rangi | worked for 3.6 though |
| 10:42 | longer cycle just shifts the problem | |
| 10:42 | paul_p | hey, rangi is not sleeping ;-) |
| 10:42 | I agree it just shifts the problem. | |
| 10:42 | slef | paul_p: leave db update hope to reintro in x.1 or x.2, but revert code? |
| 10:42 | mtompset | that isn't always possible, slef. |
| 10:42 | thd | slef++ |
| 10:43 | paul_p | slef ... maybe ... i'll think a little bit more of this option... not sure |
| 10:43 | rangi | it is more often than not |
| 10:43 | slef | mtompset: no, not always |
| 10:43 | mtompset: but 90% I suspect | |
| 10:43 | thd | mtompset: When is it not possible to revert code? |
| 10:43 | paul_p | agreed with slef |
| 10:43 | Brooke | shifting the problems to the next release just shifts the problem. |
| 10:43 | davidnind | First option seems sensible to meet six month release cycle, and provide a stable release.. |
| 10:43 | slef | mtompset: this is release engineering not utopia |
| 10:43 | mtompset | timestamp vs. date (db change) |
| 10:43 | slef | thd: when someone built on it |
| 10:44 | rangi | ppl running from dev .. not from releases will be the only ones affected by db updates anyway |
| 10:45 | thd | slef: We need more independence between features to avoid building on untested code. |
| 10:45 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 10:45 | rangi | 3.6.0 had one month feature freeze |
| 10:45 | davidnind | Better to have fewer enhancements and a stable release, rather than a buggy release (for reputation as a great product, if nothing else) |
| 10:45 | rangi | davidnind++ |
| 10:46 | Brooke | I agree david |
| 10:46 | thd | davidmind++ |
| 10:46 | mtompset | Quite true. |
| 10:46 | Brooke | also, Librarians are patient people. I can't say this enough |
| 10:46 | rangi | lol |
| 10:46 | they are not | |
| 10:46 | they are like every other client | |
| 10:46 | Brooke | perhaps some of the enhancements should be chunked smaller than they are |
| 10:46 | oleonard | davidnind++ |
| 10:47 | slef | anyway, more list discussion? |
| 10:47 | RAINING HARD HERE NOW | |
| 10:47 | rangi | ive had huge media megacorps more patient than tiny libraries |
| 10:47 | thd | However, if enhancements run independently of other code for a period of time, then it would be easy to exclude them if they are discovered to actually be buggy even after passing QA. |
| 10:47 | paul_p | other option/idea = branch 3.10 earlier (in august), to let enhancements being pushed in master, while stabilizing the 3.10 . atm, during freeze, ENH continues to be submitted, but are not pushed anymore, which tend to have ENH pushed later (not sure i'm very clear ...) |
| 10:48 | rangi | you'd have to run that by the RM for 3.12 .. since once 3.10 is branched, master is hers/his |
| 10:48 | slef | sorry all, I must get indsooers... pls postpone kohacon12 for me? bbi10 |
| 10:49 | paul_p | rangi = right. I'll rise the idea on the mailing list |
| 10:49 | rangi | you could always push them to experimental or something, after the feature freeze |
| 10:49 | jcamins | #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services |
| 10:49 | mtompset | Do things ever come out of experimental? |
| 10:50 | rangi | i think given the currently instability of master |
| 10:50 | freezing sooner and bugfixing is the best plan | |
| 10:51 | eythian_ | Branch an -rc? |
| 10:51 | oleonard | It doesn't make sense to seek to push more enhancements just for the sake of making the release "more different" |
| 10:51 | thd | oleonard++ |
| 10:51 | mtompset | I agree, oleonard |
| 10:51 | dpavlin | Q: would things like Bug 8418 would go in while in bugfix freeze? |
| 10:51 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8418 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Koha::Calendar is_holiday ignores all user data |
| 10:52 | rangi | dpavlin: we are talkign feature freeze |
| 10:52 | paul_p | dpavlin = "critical" means it's not an ENH |
| 10:52 | dpavlin | ack |
| 10:52 | rangi | there is never a bugfix freeze |
| 10:52 | only feature and string | |
| 10:52 | and string is soft | |
| 10:53 | critical bug fixes that change strings usually get pushed anyway | |
| 10:53 | thd | Making the release "more different" is only what should be done for releases which are not based on a calendar schedule. We are doing calendar schedule releases. |
| 10:53 | Brooke | thd that's the problem |
| 10:53 | jcamins | But if the fix can be done without changing strings, that's to be prefered after string freeze. |
| 10:53 | rangi | no its the solution |
| 10:53 | Brooke | there's no logical rotation between enhancement and bugfixing versions |
| 10:54 | we try it all at once in 6 months and that's madness. | |
| 10:54 | rangi | to the problem of doing not calendar releases and 3.5 year releases |
| 10:54 | mtompset | Actually, 6 months is a good length of time, because this means there are two bursts of fixes as releases are coming out. |
| 10:54 | rangi | i disagree its madness, i think there are areas of improvement |
| 10:54 | paul_p | I don't want to switch back to feature releases ! the 6 months seems a good periodicity. We must stick with it ! |
| 10:55 | rangi | paul_p++ |
| 10:55 | slef | back |
| 10:55 | oleonard | Agreed, and that means sticking to an early feature freeze |
| 10:55 | mtompset | but does the feature freeze need to be 2 months? is 1 month enough? |
| 10:55 | oleonard | The enhancements can wait, but the bug fixes can't |
| 10:56 | paul_p | and I think that the early Feature Freeze goes with branching stable soon ! |
| 10:56 | s/soon/early/ | |
| 10:56 | oleonard | mtompset: That has not been the case historically |
| 10:56 | Brooke | we could rotate. we could have 6 months for bugfixing |
| 10:56 | and 9 or 12 for enhancements | |
| 10:56 | rangi | eeewww |
| 10:56 | paul_p | mtompset = anyway, i'll be in holiday from aug 4th to 26th, so the FF won't be on aug 22, because it would mean Aug 4th, that's too early ! |
| 10:57 | thd | I think that the six month releases allow incremental improvement and encourage much more care in commits to not break things for major changes. |
| 10:57 | Brooke | I think the sticking to the deadline bit is way more important than picking an insane deadline and fitting services to it |
| 10:57 | oleonard | Brooke, I don't think this is the time or place to propose changes to the release cycle |
| 10:57 | paul_p | maybe switch from april/oct releases to may/nov, and have feature freeze sept 22 ? |
| 10:57 | Brooke | when is Owen? I bring it up, and I'm nearly always patronised. |
| 10:58 | oleonard | It should be discussed as part of the process of choosing a new RM |
| 10:58 | paul_p | oleonard right |
| 10:58 | jcamins | What is the benefit of May/November? |
| 10:58 | oleonard | ...not within the current release cycle |
| 10:58 | paul_p | jcamins = not feature freeze during summer holidays |
| 10:58 | jcamins | paul_p: ah. |
| 10:58 | Got it. | |
| 10:58 | mtompset | And this 6 month cycle, is it in stone, or flexible by a given amount of time? |
| 10:59 | rangi | hmm i would have thought holidays is perfect freeze time :) |
| 10:59 | thd | I have overcome my past objection to calendar releases with the commitment to continued bug fixes after release. |
| 10:59 | paul_p | mtompset = I would say nothing is in stone, but i'm strongly against changing it again ! |
| 10:59 | rangi | and course thats only the northern summer :) |
| 11:00 | paul_p | rangi right. when are the southern summer holidays ? |
| 11:00 | rangi | december |
| 11:00 | january | |
| 11:00 | march | |
| 11:00 | whenever :) | |
| 11:00 | eythian_ | Whichever day summer falls on that year |
| 11:00 | Brooke | hang on, Kiwis come *off* holiday? |
| 11:00 | paul_p | are you implying it's always summer in NZ ? ;-) ( not what eythian_ is saying :D ) |
| 11:00 | davidnind | We get summer? Yeh! |
| 11:01 | thd | Some projects work poorly with calendar releases. Koha seems OK thus far. Some GNU/Linux distributions using calendar releases cannot be trusted to actually work in my experience. |
| 11:01 | eythian_ | Calendar releases also makes planning possible which is good. |
| 11:01 | rangi | thd: koha is a zillion times more stable now (even with the 3.8 bugs) than it was ever before |
| 11:02 | 3.0.0 was a night mare | |
| 11:02 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 11:02 | rangi | and it took 3 years |
| 11:02 | thd | rangi: I am making that point of concurrence. |
| 11:02 | Brooke | note that I've never proposed 3 years, and that was from constantly moving goalposts instead of honestly assessing things |
| 11:03 | I think it's just as bad to introduce a buggy as version just to hit 6 months | |
| 11:03 | mtompset | So it seems we all want stability. |
| 11:03 | rangi | yep, so longer feature freeze it is |
| 11:03 | oleonard | Yes |
| 11:03 | thd | I had previously, objected based on projects which are so large that they can never have a feature freeze early enough to fix all bugs which should be blockers. |
| 11:04 | paul_p | Brooke = when 3.8 was released, everything had been tested and it was supposed to be OK. Except there was some side effect the QA process has not detected. |
| 11:04 | rangi | thd: thats what happens with longer cycles |
| 11:04 | mtompset | Actually, has anyone actually developed a test plan for every module in Koha? |
| 11:04 | rangi | the more you cram in, the more likely it is to break |
| 11:04 | paul_p | mtompset = I know bywater is working on that atm. |
| 11:04 | rangi | mtompset: we have 57% subroutine coverage |
| 11:05 | paul_p | mtompset = and the problem is that there are so many options/sysprefs ! |
| 11:05 | rangi | the most useful thing anyone can do for koha |
| 11:05 | is write more tests | |
| 11:05 | it trumps features | |
| 11:05 | jcamins | And we can do functionality regression tests, too! |
| 11:05 | rangi | yep |
| 11:05 | jcamins | #link wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Interface_testing_with_WWW::Mechanize |
| 11:05 | rangi | the problem is no one wants to pay anyone to do that |
| 11:06 | they want to pay for new features | |
| 11:06 | jcamins | Brooke: will that link work? |
| 11:06 | * mtompset | was thinking the same thing, jacmins. |
| 11:06 | paul_p | for example, I just failed QA bug 6874, look at comment 32 to see why ! that's something I just discovered by chance ! |
| 11:06 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Failed QA , File upload in MARC |
| 11:06 | jcamins | I didn't include the http:// |
| 11:06 | thd | We need a road maintenance tax. |
| 11:06 | paul_p | rangi ++ for the problem of no one want to pay for that... |
| 11:06 | slef | rangi: someone gave a talk about that at kohacon... |
| 11:06 | Brooke | dunno, so I'll redo |
| 11:06 | rangi | :) |
| 11:06 | Brooke | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]th_WWW::Mechanize |
| 11:07 | rangi | the tests catch more and more stuff, and with http::recorder and mechanize we can test js too |
| 11:07 | Brooke | so if that's happened in perpetuity |
| 11:07 | can we work in a bugtesting fee to new features? | |
| 11:07 | paul_p | discussing of this for 40mn now. Maybe we can close the discussion, I'll do a summary on koha-devel, and continue trying to find the best solution ? |
| 11:07 | Brooke | something has to address that gap. |
| 11:08 | paul this is important | |
| 11:08 | which is why I've let it go for 40 minutes | |
| 11:08 | rangi | paul_p: i think the feature freeze is all we can do for this release, too late in the cycle to do anything else |
| 11:08 | paul_p | Brooke = of course it's important ! (and I started it ;-) ) but we could discuss for hours ! |
| 11:08 | * mtompset | nods. |
| 11:08 | Brooke | but it's not too late for next go |
| 11:10 | rangi | thats up to the people who write their proposals to be the next RM |
| 11:10 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 11:10 | rangi | if we are going to elect someone to the thankless task that it is, we should try to let them decide how they want to run it |
| 11:11 | and like if paul_p has, they ask for advice, we give it, but ultimately it's their release | |
| 11:11 | joann | nodding here |
| 11:11 | mtompset | If we've agreed that there is a 2 month feature freeze and no freezes in summer, then wouldn't some time in November be the tentative release date for 3.10? |
| 11:12 | rangi | mtompset: we havent agreed anything |
| 11:12 | nengard | Okay - the results are in |
| 11:12 | paul_p | I think i'll discuss of this also with jcamins (unless there's another crazy that want to be RM ;-) ) |
| 11:12 | rangi | the current release date is october 22, but paul_p can shift that as is his perogative |
| 11:12 | mtompset | but the 2 month feature freeze is a side effect of the desire for stability. |
| 11:12 | joann | drum roll; |
| 11:12 | nengard | I'm about to share the survey results |
| 11:12 | but the winner is Reno, NV | |
| 11:12 | jcamins | paul_p: my fingers are crossed. :P |
| 11:13 | rangi | jcamins: not me :) |
| 11:13 | nengard | Unless someone thinks my math is wrong - which is why I'll share |
| 11:13 | paul_p | jcamins = which is really a bad thing to type on a keyboard ;-) |
| 11:13 | thd | please share |
| 11:13 | jcamins | paul_p: I know... thank goodness for tab complete! |
| 11:13 | slef | ok well if kohacon13 won't wait, I won't either. kohacon12 update 2/3rds of bills in, still + or - £200, too soon to tell. vids delayed by my move (no dsl hinders uploading), doing as time permits but it's hard |
| 11:13 | paul_p | nengard = you jump in the middle of the monthly meeting, and KohaCon13 is the next point ;-) |
| 11:14 | rangi | or we could put it on the agenda and le the meeting continue |
| 11:14 | Brooke | hang on |
| 11:14 | nengard | oops |
| 11:14 | sorry all | |
| 11:14 | Brooke | lemme at least get the right topic up XD |
| 11:14 | slef | now I must go to mdeal with an unexpected problem. bye. |
| 11:14 | Brooke | #topic KohaCon 12 |
| 11:14 | Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 12 | |
| 11:14 | thd | It was on the agenda when I looked. |
| 11:14 | Brooke | It was also awesome, from what I heard ;) |
| 11:15 | thd | However, hugininn had not changed the topic yet. |
| 11:15 | Brooke | I wish slef had stuck around to qualify that billing bit |
| 11:16 | mtompset | I think he mentioned the other day that one of the places you stay hadn't sent the bill yet. |
| 11:16 | * jcamins | will rephrase: two-thirds of the bills have been received, and based on what they're expecting for the last couple bills (from the University of Edinburgh), they're expecting a shortfall of ~200GPB. |
| 11:16 | mtompset | stayed at... |
| 11:16 | Right. | |
| 11:17 | Donations still welcome. ;) | |
| 11:17 | jcamins | Exactly. |
| 11:17 | GBP | |
| 11:18 | Brooke | #help please donate to cover the last of KohaCon expenses. Just need 200ish quid |
| 11:18 | #topic KohaCon 2013 | |
| 11:18 | Topic for #koha is now KohaCon 2013 | |
| 11:18 | laurence left #koha | |
| 11:19 | rangi | Brooke: its + or - 200 |
| 11:19 | so they may not | |
| 11:20 | they need the final bill to come in, then he will let us know | |
| 11:21 | mtompset | he said bills, not revenues. ;) |
| 11:22 | rangi | yes |
| 11:22 | they have money, it may cover it and have 200 left over, or they may have a shortfall | |
| 11:22 | its too soon to know | |
| 11:22 | nengard | Votes for KohaCon 13 (which I think I can post now) have been put on the wiki: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon2013 |
| 11:23 | * oleonard | must leave for work |
| 11:23 | rangi | those tally with my count |
| 11:24 | joann | night all |
| 11:24 | eythian | later joann |
| 11:25 | rangi | night joann |
| 11:25 | thd | The desert seems extraordinarily popular. |
| 11:26 | rangi | it had a huge flurry, nigeria was leading until about 4 days out |
| 11:26 | but as long as those 297 ppl who voted for reno in first place turn up, all good | |
| 11:27 | * thd | was busy raising money for FSF and failed to vote before the polls closed. |
| 11:27 | nengard | rangi, there are a lot of librarians in CA and NV that I think voted so they'll be there |
| 11:28 | Brooke | #info Congratulations Reno |
| 11:28 | * thd | is from California originally and has spent much time in Reno. |
| 11:29 | nengard | can I email the lists with this info? |
| 11:29 | I have the email ready to go | |
| 11:29 | mtompset | It's been announced, why not? |
| 11:29 | paul_p | nengard = I don't see why it should be delayed ;-) |
| 11:29 | drojf | that is gonne be one large kohacon |
| 11:29 | nengard | Okey dokey :) |
| 11:29 | Brooke | that'd be awesome |
| 11:29 | nengard++ | |
| 11:30 | nengard | I'll post to the website as well |
| 11:30 | and the last one in the US was pretty darn big too | |
| 11:31 | paul_p | drojf = why do you way it will be large ? |
| 11:31 | eythian | I assume we have to shoot a man just to watch him die, eh? |
| 11:31 | rangi | paul_p: so many votes, surely people only voted for something in first place if they intend to go .. 297 first place for reno |
| 11:31 | paul_p | (for KohaCon11, 600+ ppl voted for Mumbai. there were not 600 ppl attending, from far ;-) ) |
| 11:32 | Brooke | yes eythian ;) |
| 11:33 | drojf1 joined #koha | |
| 11:33 | rangi | paul_p: exactly, so we dont want that again |
| 11:33 | mtompset | That's why I decided not to vote, because it is very unlikely that I will be going. |
| 11:33 | Brooke | I think there will be tonnes of Yanks on budgets that don't let them travel outside the US that will come |
| 11:33 | plus a heap of Canadians :) | |
| 11:34 | * Brooke | crosses her fingers for Mexico, too. |
| 11:34 | * mtompset | cheers for his home country of Canada. :) |
| 11:35 | Brooke | so let's do the bug signing off bit |
| 11:35 | #topic Old Business - Bug Signoff | |
| 11:35 | Topic for #koha is now Old Business - Bug Signoff | |
| 11:35 | Brooke | so |
| 11:35 | I went to wikimania | |
| 11:35 | which was super cool and super cheap | |
| 11:35 | (trust me this is related) | |
| 11:35 | and the Wikihow folks | |
| 11:35 | had this dashboard | |
| 11:35 | that was totally intuitive | |
| 11:35 | and I remember magnus and chris doing some visualisation work | |
| 11:36 | and how successful just the red, yellow, and orange bits were | |
| 11:36 | so I think that if we cross breed the bug list | |
| 11:36 | with the wiki dashboard | |
| 11:36 | it will be the coolest thing evar | |
| 11:37 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
| 11:37 | mtompset | Sounds like a feature request. Is there a feature freeze in effect. ;) |
| 11:37 | rangi | http://dashboard.koha-community.org/ |
| 11:37 | you can clone it and send patches | |
| 11:38 | Brooke | they have weather mapped theirs |
| 11:38 | so that there are picture sections | |
| 11:38 | and for say article writing, there are a billion waiting, so it's a thunderstorm | |
| 11:39 | * mtompset | smirks, "clone it and send patches. Sounds like enter a maze of doom." |
| 11:39 | Brooke | it's very clever for getting a really quick visual |
| 11:39 | jcamins | mtompset: actually, it's really simple. |
| 11:40 | mtompset | It's what rangi said to me regarding bug 5515. |
| 11:40 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5515 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Leading 'and' in search never returns a result |
| 11:40 | jcamins | mtompset: okay, that one's a little scarier. |
| 11:40 | mtompset | Thankfully, I doubt it is like C4::Search. |
| 11:41 | thd | Brooke: Does this WikiMedia bug dashboard have a proper name? |
| 11:41 | rangi | you're mad if you are tyring to fix C4::Search |
| 11:41 | Brooke | thd I suspect it might live behind a small wall |
| 11:41 | I will try and fish it up and post or link a pic someplace | |
| 11:41 | rangi | you should be working in Koha::SearchEngine::* |
| 11:41 | Brooke | but I wanted to mention it cause I saw it and immediately thought "Koha!!!" |
| 11:41 | paul_p | @quote add rangi you're mad if you are tyring to fix C4::Search |
| 11:41 | huginn | paul_p: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 11:42 | mtompset | And you had a typo, paul_p. |
| 11:42 | paul_p | hey, I thought I was registred ! |
| 11:42 | @quote 211 | |
| 11:42 | huginn | paul_p: I've exhausted my database of quotes |
| 11:42 | rangi | prolly need to identify |
| 11:42 | paul_p | nevermind. |
| 11:42 | rangi | @quote search identify |
| 11:42 | huginn | rangi: 1 found: #73: "<chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick..." |
| 11:42 | rangi | @quote get 73 |
| 11:43 | huginn | rangi: Quote #73: "<chris_n> owen: try /msg munin identify nick password" (added by owen at 12:38 PM, April 29, 2010) |
| 11:43 | rangi | s/munin/huginn/ |
| 11:43 | Brooke | so the next thing on here is marking bugs that can be tested in the sandboxes |
| 11:43 | I know there was just a sandbox improvement | |
| 11:45 | I don't see how a keyword would hurt | |
| 11:45 | does anyone else? | |
| 11:45 | if we authorise it, people should use it, yeah? | |
| 11:46 | rangi | should != will |
| 11:46 | Brooke | nope. it's usually better the other way round |
| 11:46 | authorised entries derived from the crowd | |
| 11:46 | but no matter | |
| 11:47 | any objections to keywords for bugzilla? | |
| 11:47 | paul_p | not from me ;-) |
| 11:47 | jcamins | None from me. |
| 11:47 | mtompset | No, but how will people know the keyword(s)? |
| 11:47 | davidnind | not from me |
| 11:48 | drojf1 | you can see the keywords, somewhere. i know that there is only "regression" in it, so i must have found it somehow |
| 11:48 | Brooke | how about just using sandboxtest? |
| 11:48 | thd | Brooke: what do you mean in terms of the specific application of keywords? |
| 11:48 | Brooke | look at the agenda |
| 11:49 | I'll quote it | |
| 11:49 | jcamins | thd: adding a keyword so that people can find bugs that can be tested in the sandbox. |
| 11:49 | Brooke | Use a keyword in Bugzilla to mark bugs/patches that can be tested with the sandboxes |
| 11:49 | mtompset | Okay, next uninformed question... what sandboxes? |
| 11:49 | Brooke | so I'm thinking if we used sandboxtest that could differentiate stuff that can be tested and not get it mucked up with bugs with sandboxen or general tests, but am I right? |
| 11:50 | sandboxen are things that let me test stuff without having to do a whole heap of git schtuff | |
| 11:50 | eythian | mtompset: look through your email from today |
| 11:50 | Brooke | should say folks where I said me XD |
| 11:50 | mtompset | okay... |
| 11:51 | davidnind | http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes |
| 11:51 | thd | jcamins: I what way do keywords differ from the existing categories for bugs in bugzilla? |
| 11:51 | * rangi | wanders off to sleep |
| 11:51 | Brooke | night |
| 11:51 | jcamins | thd: they cut across categories. |
| 11:51 | This is not for bugs in the sandbox implementation, it's for bugs that can be tested in sandboxes. | |
| 11:52 | thd | I am all in favour of more metadata for bibliographic materials and bugs. |
| 11:53 | mtompset | davidnind++ |
| 11:54 | Why wouldn't all bugs be tested in the sandboxes? | |
| 11:54 | jcamins | So, sandboxtest sounds good to me. What's next? |
| 11:54 | mtompset: the sandboxes can't handle all types of modifications. | |
| 11:54 | drojf1 | mtompset: it does not work for all |
| 11:54 | mtompset | Ah, okay. |
| 11:55 | Brooke | Put the names of testers/signoffers in the release notes (more status) |
| 11:55 | by the way, thanks for everyone's patience | |
| 11:55 | this feels long because it is: we essentially skived off with no meeting last time. | |
| 11:55 | * libsysguy | will have to catch up in the logs |
| 11:55 | Brooke | I think this one is cool as long as someone *wants* acknowledgement |
| 11:56 | mtompset | Isn't this related to jcamins suggestion of Sponsored-by? |
| 11:56 | paul_p | mtompset = sandboxes can't handle update database very well atm, and don't handle any zebra configuration change |
| 11:56 | thd | 2 UTC is a problematic time for much of the current distribution of participants in Koha. |
| 11:56 | jcamins | Anyone who doesn't want acknowledgement can easily be removed from the release notes. |
| 11:56 | mtompset: yes. It's all of a piece. :) | |
| 11:56 | eythian | thd: that's why things rotate |
| 11:57 | paul_p | if someone want to improve them, he's welcomed, of course ;-) |
| 11:57 | Brooke | it's plum for Kiwis |
| 11:57 | thd | Even much of NZ was absent from the last meeting. |
| 11:57 | davidnind | but not always ... midnight now |
| 11:57 | eythian | yeah, it's not a good time for kiwis |
| 11:58 | but next time may be better | |
| 11:58 | Brooke | is 2 UTC bad for you all, too, then? |
| 11:58 | drojf1 | 13 June 2012 at 18:00 UTC+0 |
| 11:59 | it was not at 2 | |
| 11:59 | the next one would be | |
| 11:59 | so, next alibi :P | |
| 11:59 | Brooke | someone said 2, so that's what I was talking about XD |
| 11:59 | anyway | |
| 11:59 | thd | Brooke, we should return to the topic for now but I once tried to show that much of 2 UTC lands in the largely unpopulated ocean. |
| 12:00 | Brooke | yes I think this is sort of related to the jcamins patch |
| 12:00 | jcamins | The idea is to make sure that the people and institutions who contribute to Koha are acknowledged. |
| 12:01 | cait-m__ joined #koha | |
| 12:01 | davidnind | for NZ 2 UTC = 2pm, depends whether you have to work or not;-) |
| 12:01 | eythian | well, I work on koha, so...;) |
| 12:01 | jcamins | Doesn't sound like there's much discussion on that. Anyone who doesn't want their name in the release notes can easily ask for it to be removed. |
| 12:02 | Brooke | ^ |
| 12:02 | moving on | |
| 12:02 | Put the monthly signoff stats from Chris C. on koha-community.org (more status) | |
| 12:02 | thd | Acknowledgement++ |
| 12:02 | Brooke | same thing would apply, methinks |
| 12:02 | yes folks? | |
| 12:02 | wahanui | folks are prone to overstay hackfest so I wouldn't worry too much about that given a friendly open wifi connection |
| 12:03 | * Brooke | once again considers the tyrannical tenet of no objection as a sign of assent... |
| 12:04 | * mtompset | apologizes, "Replying to work email at 8pm at night." |
| 12:04 | Brooke | this one is my fav cause I put it there, but I expect folks will hate it |
| 12:04 | Offer prizes/bounties for signing off - either on individual bugs or for doing the most signoffs in a given time frame (Mechanical Turk?) | |
| 12:04 | I will offer Diablo or WoW gold if there's a dev that actually wants any of either :) | |
| 12:04 | jcamins | Yes. |
| 12:04 | +1 | |
| 12:04 | mtompset | I like the idea, but where will the prizes come from? |
| 12:04 | jcamins | It can't just be for signing off. |
| 12:05 | It has to be for testing. | |
| 12:05 | thd | Aside from virtual gold, what prizes or bounties might anyone be prepared to offer? |
| 12:05 | Brooke | so do we conflate those, or do we separate and honour both? |
| 12:05 | mtompset | Can you sign off without testing, jcamins? |
| 12:06 | eythian | you_can_ |
| 12:06 | Brooke | one would _hope_ not |
| 12:06 | eythian | but you shouldn't |
| 12:06 | thd | Would offering prizes actually lead to the wrong motivation and poor quality control? |
| 12:06 | paul_p | thd that's a risk, you're right |
| 12:06 | mtompset | Actually.... |
| 12:06 | that gives me an idea. | |
| 12:07 | * libsysguy | prefers bribes of testing other devs |
| 12:07 | mtompset | We were talking about testing and www::mechanize earlier, right? |
| 12:07 | What if as proof of the testing, they include a mechanize script? | |
| 12:07 | drojf1 | how is that supposed to work? a price per bug? where do all the prizes come from? what if i am poor and cannot set a fancy prize for testing my patch? |
| 12:07 | paul_p | mtompset = you can't expect that from a librarian using sandbox... |
| 12:08 | Brooke | but you could get bonus points :) |
| 12:08 | mtompset | an apache log file of their testing page requests? |
| 12:08 | jcamins | drojf1: chocolate? |
| 12:08 | wahanui | reiveune ate them all |
| 12:09 | reiveune | lol |
| 12:09 | eythian | mtompset: now you're just adding difficulty so you can have proof |
| 12:09 | jcamins | Yeah, I don't think making it more difficult to test is the way to go. |
| 12:10 | mtompset | then how to deal with thd's valid concern of potentially poorer quality control? |
| 12:10 | jcamins | My point was, you can't say "here's a batch of fudge for whoever signs off on this patch," you have to say "here's a batch of fudge for whoever offers useful testing and feedback on this patch." |
| 12:10 | eythian | Even recognition of things like: most signoffs, most QA actions, most patches in the release might be a place to start |
| 12:10 | jcamins | Exactly. |
| 12:10 | Brooke | where it's wanted |
| 12:11 | I just think we are up against a wall with testing, because I would wager that it's not fun for most people. | |
| 12:11 | mtompset | like that bug which is haunting paul_p with the impending release of 3.10 looming in his mind. :) |
| 12:11 | Brooke | I don't think it's a Koha specific problem |
| 12:12 | * mtompset | nods in agreement. |
| 12:12 | Brooke | and I think if it bumps about in me head long enough, I might actually try and research (or more likely accidentally stumble on) what might work from elsewhere |
| 12:12 | thd | drojfi: Poor developers may still be developing features which many parties want including relatively wealthy libraries. |
| 12:13 | eythian | thd: or they might be developing something for a school in Africa... |
| 12:14 | Brooke | I like the idea of a foundation, even if the origin of the idea was disliked |
| 12:15 | eythian | I think it's overkill for a situation like this. I'd suggest start small, with a byline in release notes or just an email to the lists, and then build on that if there's reception to it. |
| 12:15 | thd | eythian: I suspect that if the feature is well considered, a feature useful for schools in Africa will be useful for schools everywhere. |
| 12:15 | eythian++ start small | |
| 12:15 | Brooke | moving on to |
| 12:15 | Organize bug hunts: try to shake out all bugs in module x, and document tests on the wiki and look at the bugs for that module so we could clean up bugzilla and get some serious testing done + get some written test plans that we could try to automate later on | |
| 12:16 | thd | However, lack of testing is a big and not a small problem. |
| 12:16 | mtompset | How about bug hunt through bugzilla? |
| 12:16 | There are lots of things needing sign off, or just sitting there. | |
| 12:17 | Brooke | hate to be a downer here, but how much testing can we actually do with the number of manhours we've got? |
| 12:17 | jcamins | Not a lot more than we are already doing. |
| 12:17 | thd | Brooke: We need to entice librarians to participate. |
| 12:17 | mtompset | And that's where sandboxes come in. |
| 12:17 | thd | ... or even library users. |
| 12:18 | mtompset | I may end up going to the main office in the near future to see if I can get the library person there to participate in sandbox testing. :) |
| 12:18 | thd | There is no shortage of library patrons, some of them must be motivated to improve the library. |
| 12:19 | Brooke | their local library, perhaps |
| 12:19 | it's a tougher sell getting them to look at koha | |
| 12:19 | in especial with no central body to donate to | |
| 12:20 | almost done | |
| 12:20 | More ideas? Do other project have systems that work? (Achievement system for Developers OR better use of an existing tool like Ohloh or Chorewars for status and karma?) | |
| 12:21 | wikihow has a quick thumbs up thing for edits that other people find useful | |
| 12:21 | eythian | launchpad has karma points |
| 12:21 | Brooke | I think chorewars was uber effective for a while, and might still be so :) |
| 12:21 | eythian | though, we'd probably have to patch them into bugzilla if we wanted them, that would be a notable amount of work |
| 12:22 | thd | I worry much about prizes giving wrong motivation but libraries could easily donate greater circulation periods or other privileges. |
| 12:22 | Brooke | fine forgiveness might be an attractive thing |
| 12:22 | drojf1 | thd: do you really expect patrons to learn the library system of the library they are using? |
| 12:22 | Brooke | a tiny percent do and will |
| 12:22 | eythian | thd: I'm sure we've all built in "if (username eq "robin") { $fines = 0.00; } ;) |
| 12:23 | jcamins | eythian: heh. |
| 12:23 | cait-m__ | heh |
| 12:24 | Brooke | moving on, and this one is key |
| 12:24 | Is the wiki login working for new folks now? | |
| 12:24 | thd | drojf1: Obviously, patrons should not be expected to evaluate all features properly, no one is best at all features. However, patrons may be good candidates for testing many features. |
| 12:25 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 12:26 | thd | I never noticed it not working, but I had not been giving attention. |
| 12:26 | oleonard | Whoa, long meeting |
| 12:26 | Brooke | #help please ensure that the wiki login is working for new accounts |
| 12:26 | thd | oleonard: Cumulated issues from lack of participation in the previous meeting. |
| 12:26 | mtompset | quite long. |
| 12:27 | oleonard | previous meeting_s_ |
| 12:27 | drojf1 | long enough for me to bake a bread. it's done now :D |
| 12:27 | mtompset | and reply to a work email, and make note of that chorewars site. |
| 12:28 | Brooke++ | |
| 12:28 | Brooke | moving on |
| 12:28 | Move to Gerrit to streamline and optimize workflow? | |
| 12:28 | is the Chris it was referring to asleep now, or is it other Chris, and if it is, is he here? | |
| 12:29 | jcamins | rangi. |
| 12:29 | Brooke | sleeping it is |
| 12:30 | mtompset | We did push a lot to this meeting. I think a couple things could get pushed to the next. ;) |
| 12:30 | Brooke | any other actions from last meeting? |
| 12:30 | we're almost done | |
| 12:30 | thd | gerrit++ mahara? |
| 12:31 | Brooke | Miscellaneous |
| 12:31 | anyone? | |
| 12:32 | mtompset | Nothing from me. |
| 12:32 | Brooke | right! |
| 12:32 | #topic time and date of next meeting | |
| 12:32 | Topic for #koha is now time and date of next meeting | |
| 12:32 | Brooke | I bollocksed this up last time |
| 12:32 | shari joined #koha | |
| 12:33 | Brooke | so I'd appreciate oleonard helping this time |
| 12:33 | so I don't do it again | |
| 12:33 | mtompset | Since we were noting that a lot of Kiwis were asleep, I suggest a Kiwi friendly time be chosen. |
| 12:33 | Brooke | I'm equally knackered, so I think it's equally likely |
| 12:33 | jcamins | We have a regular location. |
| 12:33 | *rotation | |
| 12:33 | jwagner | The rotation would have the next meeting at 2:00 UTC -- last two were 10:00 and 18:00 |
| 12:33 | jcamins | I vote we follow that, so 2:00 UTC. |
| 12:33 | Brooke | which is friendly for kiwis, yes? |
| 12:34 | cause its everyone's turn eventually | |
| 12:34 | mtompset | I think that puts it around supper for them. |
| 12:34 | Brooke | that's before tea |
| 12:34 | smack midafternoon | |
| 12:34 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:34 | oleonard | Terrible for Europe though |
| 12:34 | mtompset | So, if that is the rotation, seems good to me. |
| 12:35 | oleonard | 4AM? |
| 12:35 | Brooke | it's always shite for someone |
| 12:35 | mtompset | Well, what day will the next meeting be? |
| 12:35 | Because paul_p may or may not have an update on 3.10 | |
| 12:35 | eythian | I think that's about 4pm NZ time or so |
| 12:35 | davidnind | rotation is good, 2 UTC = 2pm in NZ |
| 12:35 | eythian | 2 then |
| 12:35 | I never remember which way it goes :) | |
| 12:35 | jwagner | We got away from the first Wednesday of the month. Since paul_p is out all of August, maybe skip to early Sept? |
| 12:36 | thd | jwagner: The danger would then be an extra long meeting next time. |
| 12:36 | Brooke | not only that |
| 12:36 | thd | Koha should never have a holiday. |
| 12:36 | paul_p | thd = isn't this one extra long already ? :D |
| 12:36 | Brooke | but string freeze is coming up soonish, yes? |
| 12:37 | cait-m__ | will paul be there at 4 am? |
| 12:37 | Brooke | doubt it |
| 12:37 | thd | paul_p: Yes, but partly for the reason which jwagner cited. |
| 12:38 | mtompset | perhaps keep it to august, because the next rotation may be europe friendlier? |
| 12:38 | oleonard | 4AM and during your vacation eh paul_p? |
| 12:38 | cait-m__ | so can be aug |
| 12:38 | paul_p | oleonard lol ! |
| 12:39 | Brooke | 1 August is still vaguely august |
| 12:39 | mtompset | That's too close. |
| 12:39 | oleonard | 1 August is in two weeks |
| 12:39 | Brooke | yep |
| 12:39 | thd | Exactly, whether during the summer leaving period or not, 2 UTC would be a difficulty for paul. |
| 12:40 | paul_p | thd = well, in fact it's less difficult during holidays = I can go back to bed hereafter ;-) |
| 12:40 | oleonard | I suggest 15 August |
| 12:40 | thd | :) |
| 12:40 | paul_p | the main question being = will I have internet where I go in fact ! |
| 12:40 | (still not sure) | |
| 12:40 | mtompset | If we do August 8, it would be easier to bump back to first wednesday of month. |
| 12:41 | thd | mtompset++ |
| 12:42 | mtompset | Let's see 2 UTC is... |
| 12:42 | Brooke | 8 August 2 Utc |
| 12:42 | plus 1 please | |
| 12:42 | wahanui | 1 |
| 12:42 | thd | +1 |
| 12:42 | jwagner | +1 |
| 12:42 | jcamins | +1 |
| 12:42 | libsysguy | +1 |
| 12:42 | davidnind | +1 |
| 12:43 | eythian | wahanui: you don't even have a timezone |
| 12:43 | wahanui | eythian: sorry... |
| 12:43 | * paul_p | don't vote |
| 12:43 | * eythian | probably won't be able to make that time this time around, but that's OK. |
| 12:43 | mtompset | +1 |
| 12:44 | cait-m__ | 0 |
| 12:44 | * mtompset | is still trying to figure out the time difference to Manila. |
| 12:44 | Brooke | #agreed next meeting is 8 August 2 UTC |
| 12:44 | #endmeeting | |
| 12:44 | Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.2, 3.6.6 and 3.4.8 Now Available | Koha Community Website - http://www.koha-community.org/ | General IRC meeting, 18 July 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0 | |
| 12:44 | huginn | Meeting ended Wed Jul 18 12:44:18 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 12:44 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-18-10.00.html | |
| 12:44 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]2-07-18-10.00.txt | |
| 12:44 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]18-10.00.log.html | |
| 12:44 | jwagner | mtompset see a tool like http://www.timeanddate.com/wor[…]ck/converter.html |
| 12:45 | LBA joined #koha | |
| 12:45 | mtompset | Thanks, jwagner |
| 12:46 | I was there, but the UI is confusing. I didn't see the UTC option unless I dropped done. | |
| 12:46 | dropped down. | |
| 12:46 | * thd | has mostly stayed up and now must be turned off. |
| 12:48 | davidnind | http://www.timeanddate.com/wor[…]l?iso=20120808T02 |
| 12:48 | oleonard | mtompset: You can also search "8 August 02:00 UTC" on WolframAlpha. At least for me it correctly guesses my time zone |
| 12:49 | mtompset | WolframAlpha? |
| 12:49 | wahanui | WolframAlpha is telling me 8 hours, is that right? |
| 12:49 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 12:49 | oleonard | http://www.wolframalpha.com |
| 12:50 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 12:50 | schuster | how can I see if a particular cpan module is installed? |
| 12:50 | debian system | |
| 12:51 | jcamins | schuster: use packages. |
| 12:51 | Barring that, perl -e "use Module; print 'Hi';" | |
| 12:52 | schuster | I want to specifically see if Business::ISBN is installed. |
| 12:52 | jcamins | perl -e "use Business::ISBN; print 'Hi';" |
| 12:52 | oleonard | Or check the Perl modules tab on Koha's about page |
| 12:53 | mtompset | If you are using debian, DO NOT attempt to install from scratch. USE THE PACKAGES! |
| 12:53 | oleonard | ...which is a christmas tree of red squares for me |
| 12:53 | eythian | sounds like a lesson learnt there ;) |
| 12:53 | mtompset | I actually tried, and encountered a messy headache, so I gave up. |
| 12:54 | Since we are using Ubuntu anyways, and I just wanted to see if my instructions would work for debian too. | |
| 12:54 | eythian | schuster: I'd do: "sudo apt-get install libbusiness-isbn-perl" which will either install it, or won't if it's already there. Regardless, you'll know that it's installed when this is complete. |
| 12:55 | mtompset | oleonard++ |
| 12:55 | That wolframalpha site is cool. | |
| 12:57 | schuster | Koha says it is there, but I wanted to verify. I was trying to get the ISBN 10/13 working on my community box that I have on my test box and not sure why it isn't picking it up. |
| 12:57 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 12:57 | schuster | I have I think what are the 2 patches to make it work, but after reindexing it still doesn't do it. |
| 13:00 | mtompset | oh... did you restart the koha-zebra-daemon? |
| 13:00 | eythian | it's rare to need to that |
| 13:00 | only if you change zebra config | |
| 13:01 | mtompset | everytime I do a full reindex, I need to restart it. |
| 13:01 | davidnind left #koha | |
| 13:01 | eythian | you shouldn't have to |
| 13:01 | mtompset | The file handles go stale or something for me. |
| 13:01 | eythian | weird |
| 13:01 | mtompset | yes, weird. |
| 13:02 | I turn off apache, do a full reindex, restart the daemon, and start apache. | |
| 13:02 | It avoids the memory problems we were having, and it works. | |
| 13:02 | eythian | I just reindex and it's immediately happy |
| 13:02 | mtompset | how much memory do you have? |
| 13:03 | eythian | depends. 2-4GB typically |
| 13:03 | @wunder marseille | |
| 13:03 | huginn | eythian: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 33.0°C (2:30 PM CEST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). |
| 13:03 | mtompset | we have 512MB. :) |
| 13:03 | eythian | maybe your apache maxchilds is too high |
| 13:03 | although 512 is on the low side | |
| 13:04 | especially if you're running mysql in that too | |
| 13:04 | mtompset | what's the conf file to check? |
| 13:04 | We're getting it bumped up. | |
| 13:04 | oleonard | @wunder 45701 |
| 13:04 | huginn | oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 24.4°C (8:30 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 7 PM EDT this evening... |
| 13:05 | eythian | /etc/apache2/apache.conf or something like that |
| 13:05 | oleonard | Whoa, check out that humidity |
| 13:05 | mtompset | @wunder MNL |
| 13:05 | huginn | mtompset: The current temperature in Ninoy Aquino Inter-National Airport, Philippines is 26.0°C (8:00 PM PHT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 25.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1009 hPa (Rising). |
| 13:05 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 13:05 | mtompset | Welcome to the tropics. ;) |
| 13:06 | How do I know which module, eythian? | |
| 13:07 | eythian | it's whichever module you're running, probably mpm-itk |
| 13:07 | which I think is the same as mpm-prefork | |
| 13:07 | mtompset | How do I know which module I am running? |
| 13:08 | eythian | see which apache module you have installed |
| 13:08 | you can only have one | |
| 13:08 | mtompset | How do I see which apache module I have installed? |
| 13:08 | eythian | wholly cow |
| 13:09 | you can just do this: | |
| 13:09 | apt-cache policy apache2-mpm* | |
| 13:09 | I didn't know that, that's neat | |
| 13:09 | * eythian | remember that trick |
| 13:09 | mtompset | I came up with aptitude search apache | grep ^i |
| 13:10 | eythian | that'd also work :) |
| 13:10 | jcamins_away | @wunder 11375 |
| 13:10 | huginn | jcamins_away: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 30.0°C (8:42 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Rising). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening... |
| 13:10 | eythian | jcamins_away: that seems pleasantly cool :) |
| 13:11 | mtompset | StartServers 5 |
| 13:11 | MinSpareServers 5 | |
| 13:11 | MaxSpareServers 10 | |
| 13:11 | MaxClients 150 | |
| 13:11 | MaxRequestsPerChild 0 | |
| 13:11 | Which is too high? | |
| 13:11 | eythian | maxclients, you can't server 150 connections |
| 13:11 | not in 512 | |
| 13:12 | mtompset | True... that would probably eat our memory completely up. |
| 13:12 | dpavlin | Why is MaxRequestsPerChild 0 ? |
| 13:12 | eythian | I assume that means "no limit" |
| 13:12 | but I don't really know | |
| 13:12 | mtompset | It's a default value. |
| 13:13 | oleonard | No package for Template::Plugin::HtmlToText ? |
| 13:13 | eythian | oleonard: it's in the koha repo |
| 13:13 | * mtompset | smirks. |
| 13:13 | eythian | but it's not depended on by default (my fault) |
| 13:13 | mtompset | I think I grabbed that from jcamins. |
| 13:14 | * oleonard | is running of of git, not Koha packages |
| 13:14 | mtompset | It's not a required module. |
| 13:14 | eythian | oh right |
| 13:14 | dpavlin | eythian: MaxRequestsPerChild 0 == no limit, but I prefer number there just to be sure that something isn't leeking memory :-) |
| 13:14 | eythian | it's worth adding the koha repo then anyway, you get some extra packages |
| 13:14 | dpavlin: yeah | |
| 13:14 | dpavlin: though CGI perl shouldn't leak :) | |
| 13:15 | mtompset | Apache does leak. |
| 13:15 | * oleonard | also doesn't find Data::Pagination or Data::Paginator |
| 13:15 | dpavlin | eythian: true. plack is influencing my judgement :-) |
| 13:15 | mtompset | I've watched ours leak about 1MB per koha page request. |
| 13:15 | eythian | goodness |
| 13:16 | mtompset | what number would you suggest, dpavlin? |
| 13:17 | Of course, the leak goes away, so it is more of poor garbage collection than a leak. | |
| 13:21 | nengard | looking for something easy to sign off on?? want to get on the scoreboard? :) bug 6716 |
| 13:21 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6716 enhancement, P3, ---, nengard, Needs Signoff , Database Documentation |
| 13:26 | mtompset | Noooooooo.... not more reading. |
| 13:27 | * mtompset | grins. |
| 13:30 | decides working towards shutdown is a good idea. | |
| 13:30 | waves. | |
| 13:30 | mtompset | Bye, #koha. |
| 14:07 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 14:07 | drojf left #koha | |
| 14:08 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 14:14 | schuster | is there an LCCN number index? |
| 14:16 | found it control-number | |
| 14:24 | jcamins_away | oleonard: Data::Pagination and Data::Paginator won't install on Squeeze. |
| 14:25 | At least, that is what I found. | |
| 14:25 | The good news is, it doesn't matter. | |
| 14:25 | oleonard | So... what does that mean? |
| 14:26 | * jcamins_away | gets grouchy and frustrated every time he tries to install master? :P |
| 14:27 | paul_p | jcamins_away = and bug 8467 won't please you... |
| 14:27 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8467 normal, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Error during installation spool directory |
| 14:27 | jcamins_away | paul_p: no, that was a silly mistake on my part. |
| 14:28 | However, there's already a signed off patch. | |
| 14:28 | & QAed, really. | |
| 14:28 | On bug 8268. | |
| 14:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8268 critical, P2, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Koha should offer way to backup entire db |
| 14:28 | jcamins_away | Waiting for you to push it. |
| 14:28 | :) | |
| 14:29 | At least, that seems to be the same problem. | |
| 14:30 | (your error message was in French and mine was in English, so they might be different;) | |
| 14:32 | paul_p: I tested package installation and not normal installation. | |
| 14:35 | * jcamins_away | heads back home, having spent an hour traveling into the city only to learn that his client is out of town. |
| 14:39 | schuster | nengard about? |
| 14:39 | nengard | yes |
| 14:40 | schuster | I was looking at the matching rules in the documentation and you reference LOC but for the tag you put 001 rather than 010? |
| 14:40 | drojf | hey, i was promised kohacon 2014 in croatia :P |
| 14:40 | nengard | hehe |
| 14:40 | schuster what link? | |
| 14:41 | and I didn't write the matching rules part :) but I'll gladly edit it | |
| 14:41 | schuster | I don't know if the LOC even works actually for a matching rule. That's why I was looking at it I was trying to make it work. |
| 14:41 | nengard | heh |
| 14:42 | we do have a matching rule that we use at bywater for 001 | |
| 14:42 | pastebot | "schuster" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "link to matching rules for LOC" (1 line) at http://paste.koha-community.org/38 |
| 14:42 | nengard | this one http://manual.koha-community.o[…]cordmatchingrules |
| 14:43 | schuster | but that is mainly like OCLC numbers do you have any clients that match on LCCN? |
| 14:43 | yes that one. | |
| 14:43 | nengard | not that i know of, but usually druthb or talljoy do the matching rules |
| 14:43 | during migrations so they'd know better | |
| 14:44 | if you don't use OCLC though the 001 is the LOC number | |
| 14:44 | SJeffery joined #koha | |
| 14:45 | schuster | HUH? the 001 is whatever system number the record might come with. The record I'm playing with is from Follett. |
| 14:47 | nengard | right sorry ? ignore me |
| 14:47 | brain not working this week | |
| 14:48 | jwagner | The MARC standard for LCCN number is the 010 field, and that is indexed by default as LC-card-number,Identifier-standard |
| 14:48 | schuster | Very odd - when I loaded it though with 001 it did match based on the 010. |
| 14:48 | 001 as the tag match point. | |
| 15:02 | nengard | um |
| 15:02 | this is why i did not write the matchpoints part of the manual | |
| 15:02 | cause they confuse the heck out of me | |
| 15:02 | sorry ?. | |
| 15:03 | wizzyrea | anyone have opinions on this? http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720 |
| 15:03 | huginn | 04Bug 2720: enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Fines that debar automatically, should undebar automatically when paid. |
| 15:03 | wizzyrea | on how he's suggesting this work? |
| 15:09 | cait-m__ joined #koha | |
| 15:10 | cait-m__ | hi all |
| 15:15 | wizzyrea | hi cait |
| 15:19 | reiveune | bye |
| 15:19 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 15:20 | cait-m__ | hi wizzyrea |
| 15:20 | oleonard | Why do you ask wizzyrea? It makes logical sense, but I wonder about the performance issue of adding another query in each pla?ce we display patron information |
| 15:21 | wizzyrea | I ask because this is something that NEKLS wants to see happen |
| 15:21 | but I don't have a read on "the best way to do it" | |
| 15:24 | cait-m__ | hmm? |
| 15:25 | oleonard | cait-m__: Bug 2720 |
| 15:25 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Fines that debar automatically, should undebar automatically when paid. |
| 15:28 | cait-m__ | ah thx :) |
| 15:41 | jcamins | ARGH! |
| 15:41 | Don't use 001 for matching. | |
| 15:41 | Really. | |
| 15:41 | I know I am alone in this, but I feel it is a bad idea. | |
| 15:41 | Oh, jwagner agrees with me. :) | |
| 15:42 | schuster: use 010$a and LC-card-number. | |
| 15:42 | jwagner | jcamins, not always :-) If you have a catalog with only one type of control number in 001 (like OCLC), you can use it. |
| 15:42 | But I prefer combined matching rules, checking maybe 001, 035, 010, etc. | |
| 15:43 | jcamins | jwagner: if you are trying to overlay records from the same source, yeah, sure, use 001. |
| 15:43 | But don't confuse that situation with "001 has a standard number." | |
| 15:43 | jwagner | Yes. It depends on how clean the catalog is. If you're merging data from multiple sources, you can't really rely on it |
| 15:44 | jcamins | schuster: ^^ exactly what I was trying to communicate. |
| 15:49 | @wunder 11375 | |
| 15:49 | huginn | jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 35.0°C (11:12 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 22.0°C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1010 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening... |
| 15:49 | oleonard | @wunder 45701 |
| 15:49 | huginn | oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is 30.6°C (11:20 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1015 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 7 PM EDT this evening... |
| 15:49 | jwagner | @wunder 20740 |
| 15:49 | huginn | jwagner: The current temperature in Hollywood, College Park, Maryland is 35.8°C (11:49 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening... |
| 15:50 | jcamins | It feels a lot hotter than that. |
| 15:50 | asaurat left #koha | |
| 15:55 | nengard | @wunder 19030 |
| 15:55 | huginn | nengard: The current temperature in Highland Park, Levittown, Pennsylvania is 37.7°C (11:55 AM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady). Excessive heat warning in effect until 6 am EDT Thursday... |
| 15:55 | nengard | weather man said it would feel like 105 degrees with the humidity here |
| 15:55 | oleonard | Whatever happened to Biblibre's enhancement to add editing to the circulation rules interface? |
| 16:03 | melia joined #koha | |
| 16:08 | wizzyrea | it got stuck with lack of testing |
| 16:08 | or it was lumped in with other changes that would have required basically live testing | |
| 16:09 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 16:09 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 16:10 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
| 16:10 | mtompset | I just wanted to cheer about getting my first class and subclass objects working. :) |
| 16:10 | jcamins | mtompset: class and subclass objects? |
| 16:10 | What are you working on? | |
| 16:10 | mtompset | playing with Perl OO. |
| 16:11 | so that I can eventually clean up Auth. :) | |
| 16:11 | jcamins | Whoah! |
| 16:11 | mtompset++ | |
| 16:11 | mtompset | because I've been asked to get SAML 2.0 working for Koha. |
| 16:12 | And frankly... | |
| 16:12 | Auth is ugly. | |
| 16:12 | It needs to be prettier. | |
| 16:12 | jcamins | mtompset: you put that so diplomatically. |
| 16:12 | mtompset | imagine there is a silent capital F on ugly. :) |
| 16:13 | oleonard | I sure don't mind someone calling part of Koha ugly when it is prefaced by saying they're working on fixing it :) |
| 16:13 | mtompset | have you seen ANY Koha implementation that actually used .htaccess? |
| 16:14 | because that's the only case I can figure that REMOTE_USER gets defined. | |
| 16:15 | for authentication, that is. | |
| 16:15 | That whole first IF part makes NO sense otherwise. | |
| 16:15 | in checkauth. | |
| 16:16 | SJeffery | mtompset: Wouldn't .htaccess be used for IP athentication setups? |
| 16:16 | jcamins | Is REMOTE_USER set with SSL? |
| 16:17 | mtompset | hmm.... I didn't try https://192.168.69.37:8080/ |
| 16:17 | I only did the http version. | |
| 16:17 | jcamins | Well, you have to configure SSL. |
| 16:17 | mtompset | That's what a development install is for. ;) |
| 16:18 | jcamins | But I have a suspicion that REMOTE_USER might be set by Apache if you configure it to use SSL certificates. |
| 16:18 | mtompset | I believe it is set when the browser is instructed to prompt for a username/password by an .htaccess file. |
| 16:18 | jcamins | SSL certificates also include username. |
| 16:19 | mtompset | Thanks for the extra test case... I'll try it later today... after I wake up. :) |
| 16:20 | jcamins | eythian would know. |
| 16:20 | mtompset | Hope I and paul haven't hijacked the EOL 3.4 thread you created, oleonard. :) |
| 16:20 | paul_p | jcamins eythian just left |
| 16:20 | jcamins | I know. |
| 16:21 | oleonard | mtompset: Did you vote? :P |
| 16:22 | mtompset | You said you wanted a discussion before voting. :P |
| 16:22 | Paul pointed out that EOL is EOL regardless of what we call it, and from a Developer perspective that is very true. | |
| 16:23 | However, I think the terms "Orphaned" and "Killed" are better suited from the user perspective. | |
| 16:23 | jcamins | mtompset: we've been telling people to upgrade from 3.4 for a while. |
| 16:24 | oleonard | jcamins: Then reply and vote for "killed" :) |
| 16:25 | mtompset | Yes, but you haven't been telling them, "If you don't upgrade now, I won't support you any more." |
| 16:25 | Have you? | |
| 16:25 | jcamins | Sort of. |
| 16:26 | The vast majority of support questions are "why doesn't X work?" and the answer is often "X works in 3.6.x and 3.8.x, so you need to upgrade if you want it to work for you, too." | |
| 16:26 | mtompset | That's not quite a "I won't support you" problem. |
| 16:26 | That's a "The solution is upgrading" | |
| 16:27 | jcamins | Hmmm... |
| 16:27 | I'm not sure I see a distinction. | |
| 16:27 | oleonard | Sounds like "I won't support you unless you upgrade" to me |
| 16:27 | jcamins | I will help people using 3.2 if their questions are about things that are the same between 3.2 and a recent version. |
| 16:28 | But I don't remember how 3.2 worked, so if they aren't seeing the same things I am, all I can say is "sorry, you'd have more luck getting support if you used a supported version." | |
| 16:28 | mtompset | That's more of an "orphan" than a kill. |
| 16:29 | A "kill" would see the same bug in master as 3.2, and still say, "You should upgrade." | |
| 16:29 | jcamins | Well, I'd say that, because they're never going to get the fix in 3.2. |
| 16:29 | Even if I fix it in master immediately. | |
| 16:30 | mtompset | But that's because you didn't fix it in 3.2 |
| 16:30 | It's still EOL. | |
| 16:30 | mib_2pnt4n joined #koha | |
| 16:30 | mib_2pnt4n | good day everyone |
| 16:30 | jcamins | Hello. |
| 16:31 | mib_2pnt4n | i could use a quick pointer on a user problem |
| 16:31 | mtompset | change the user? ;) |
| 16:31 | wahanui | mtompset: that doesn't look right |
| 16:31 | jcamins | mtompset: exactly, so if they want me to fix it, they have to upgrade. |
| 16:31 | wahanui joined #koha | |
| 16:31 | mib_2pnt4n | i am running 3.8 |
| 16:31 | jcamins | Yay! |
| 16:31 | * jcamins | knows about 3.8. :) |
| 16:31 | jcamins | Some. |
| 16:31 | ;) | |
| 16:31 | mib_2pnt4n | i have cataloged a book in OCLC connexion |
| 16:31 | mtompset | Thank you for running a current version. :) |
| 16:32 | mib_2pnt4n | downloaded the marc record |
| 16:32 | and imported it into koha | |
| 16:32 | all went great | |
| 16:32 | but the book is not showing up in the catalog | |
| 16:32 | it also says "No physical items for this record" | |
| 16:32 | mtompset | indexing! :) |
| 16:32 | jcamins | You need to have your Zebra reindexer running. |
| 16:32 | If you installed it from the tarball, you'll need to make sure rebuild_zebra is being run in your crontab. | |
| 16:33 | If you installed it using the packages, you probably just need to wait a few minutes. | |
| 16:33 | mib_2pnt4n | actually we are working Bywater Solutions |
| 16:33 | so i didn't isntall it | |
| 16:33 | jcamins | Oh, in that case you'll need to have ByWater fix up your crontab. |
| 16:33 | oleonard | Sounds like a question for their support staff mib_2pnt4n |
| 16:33 | mib_2pnt4n | ok |
| 16:33 | jcamins | Yup. |
| 16:33 | They have a ticketing system. | |
| 16:33 | oleonard | That's what you're paying them for ;) |
| 16:33 | mib_2pnt4n | yeah |
| 16:34 | i submitted a ticket | |
| 16:34 | bag | :) |
| 16:34 | mib_2pnt4n | i just wanted to see if there was a quick fix that I was missing |
| 16:34 | jcamins | Probably not, no. |
| 16:34 | mib_2pnt4n | ok cool |
| 16:34 | thank you for your help | |
| 16:36 | trea joined #koha | |
| 16:42 | jcamins | Gotta love paul_p's encouraging comment about my RM candidacy. |
| 16:42 | :) | |
| 16:42 | hankbank joined #koha | |
| 16:54 | jcamins | oleonard: have I successfully made you more confused? |
| 16:55 | oleonard | I think I get it |
| 16:55 | mbalmer joined #koha | |
| 16:55 | jcamins | Hm. |
| 16:56 | Well, next time I'll try harder to make it more confusing. | |
| 16:56 | :P | |
| 16:56 | oleonard | I still wonder about the best way to encourage people to work on bugfixes instead of submitting more features |
| 16:56 | jcamins | Ah, that I don't know. |
| 16:56 | But not pushing enhancements probably is not. | |
| 16:56 | Though that was my first thought as well. | |
| 16:56 | mbalmer | ola |
| 16:57 | SJeffery joined #koha | |
| 16:57 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 17:10 | martian523 joined #koha | |
| 17:11 | martian523 | hi, i'm wondering if there's a way to connect to worldcat as one of the Z39.5 targets? |
| 17:12 | oleonard | martian523: I think WorldCat wants you to pay for those records |
| 17:12 | SJeffery | martian523: Yes, as long as you have the necessary login from OCLC. |
| 17:13 | ^ Yes, you have to pay for them. | |
| 17:13 | martian523 | but using the worldcat web is free |
| 17:13 | that's so funny | |
| 17:14 | jcamins | martian523: worldcat.org is a faint shadow of WorldCat. |
| 17:14 | SJeffery | Just wait until you see the prices they charge. |
| 17:15 | * jcamins | has to talk to Skyriver at some point. They're supposed to be more affordable. |
| 17:15 | martian523 | no luck for me then, since i don't think our library have the budget for this |
| 17:15 | jcamins | Though they don't pay for records you upload, I don't think. |
| 17:16 | oleonard | Funny how that works. |
| 17:16 | SJeffery | jcamins: Their cost was not low enough for us to justify switching (keeping in mind that their dataquality is a notch lower). |
| 17:17 | Martian523: You can still get almost all the records you will need from libraries with open Z39.50 servers. | |
| 17:20 | martian523 | well, yeah, but it's more convenient to just use one db and get all |
| 17:20 | do you know anything about eiNetwork? | |
| 17:29 | CharlottevL joined #koha | |
| 17:31 | oleonard | Hi CharlottevL |
| 17:31 | CharlottevL | hello.. It's awkward, but i need again your help... :( |
| 17:32 | oleonard | I mean ahoj |
| 17:32 | CharlottevL | ahoj :) |
| 17:32 | nice to hear czech language... | |
| 17:33 | * oleonard | doesn't know much, but wishes he knew more |
| 17:33 | build http://www.czechprimer.org | |
| 17:34 | * tcohen | needs to know how to detect problems in jenkins interface |
| 17:34 | jcamins | tcohen: what do you mean? |
| 17:34 | CharlottevL | that's beautiful... :) i didn't know this page... |
| 17:34 | drojf | pozor vlak |
| 17:35 | CharlottevL | yes, that's very useful :D |
| 17:35 | drojf | pozor is one of my favourite words :) |
| 17:35 | tcohen | jcamins: if an email says master is unstable on jenkins |
| 17:35 | where do I search for the problems? | |
| 17:35 | CharlottevL | in czech republic, you can't live without this word ... |
| 17:36 | jcamins | tcohen: view the latest job, and then click "Test results." |
| 17:36 | CharlottevL | so my problem for today.. :( when I search something in opac, there is "availability: copies avalable for loan..:", but if I click on recort to place hold, there is error "no avalable items" :( maybe something with zebra, but don't know, what... |
| 17:36 | tcohen | jcamins: found it, thanks |
| 17:37 | jcamins | CharlottevL: you need to add circulation rules. |
| 17:37 | jwagner | CharlottevL, do you have a circ rule allowing your login to borrow that item? |
| 17:37 | CharlottevL | yes, i have... |
| 17:37 | jwagner | If you're not allowed to borrow it, you can't place a hold either |
| 17:37 | jcamins | I will let someone else tell you exactly what circ rules are needed, because I have forgotten. |
| 17:38 | oleonard | You need at least one rule for all patrons/all item types |
| 17:38 | jwagner | identify the patron category and the item type in question. THen look for a circ rule covering that combination. If there isn't one, check the default rules |
| 17:39 | What happens if you try to check out that item to that user? | |
| 17:39 | CharlottevL | it works without problem. |
| 17:39 | adnc joined #koha | |
| 17:40 | CharlottevL | maybe an other hitn. If I search in catalog in staff client, there is in column "location" - no item (but if i click on the record, there is an item with bar code ) |
| 17:40 | jwagner | Can you place a hold on that item for that user in staff mode? |
| 17:43 | CharlottevL | it works only if i click on the record, if i click in the search-result list, there is error !One or more selected items cannot be placed on hold" |
| 17:44 | "little czech primer", thats wonderfull site) | |
| 17:47 | jwagner | That sounds like a circ rule problem, but do you have other items on the title, and are any of them non-circulating items (like reference)? |
| 17:48 | CharlottevL | no, everything is circ-items... |
| 17:49 | jcamins | Do you have a rule for DEFAULT-DEFAULT-DEFAULT? |
| 17:49 | jwagner | and does the applicable circ rule have a count in the Holds Allowed column? |
| 17:51 | CharlottevL | OPACItemHolds -allowed |
| 17:51 | do you mean this? | |
| 17:52 | jwagner | No, in your circ rules |
| 17:52 | Home › Administration › Circulation and fine rules | |
| 17:54 | CharlottevL | holds policy - everything allowed |
| 17:54 | cait joined #koha | |
| 17:55 | jwagner | Above that on the page -- the table with headings for Patron category, Item type, etc. |
| 17:55 | tcohen | jcamins, tests that aren't ok don tell anything about the error |
| 17:55 | jwagner | Do you have a rule covering that specific combination of patron category and item type, or a default rule that would apply |
| 17:55 | tcohen | is that fixable? |
| 17:56 | jcamins | tcohen: they do somewhere, but I always have a lot of trouble figuring out where. |
| 17:56 | tcohen: I generally just run it manually. | |
| 17:56 | tcohen | right |
| 17:56 | CharlottevL | i let there default rules, nothing changed yet... |
| 17:57 | jwagner | Set up a rule covering that combination, and allowing holds, then try it again. |
| 17:57 | tcohen | who's maintaining the packages.ubuntu file? |
| 17:58 | =~ swap | |
| 17:58 | * cait | waves |
| 17:58 | jwagner | hi cait |
| 17:58 | cait | hi jcamins |
| 17:59 | hi jwagner | |
| 17:59 | autocomplete | |
| 17:59 | wahanui | autocomplete is probably biting me |
| 17:59 | tcohen | i have an issue in a amd64 PVM (Ubuntu 12.04) using dselect --set-selections |
| 17:59 | as it pulls i386 dependencies | |
| 18:01 | CharlottevL | jwagner - no change :( (i'm really newbie in koha... but if it would be only circ-rule problem, why I have "no items" in column "location" ?) |
| 18:01 | jwagner | on staff search results? possibly the index hasn't caught up? |
| 18:02 | CharlottevL | yes, on staff search results.. :( |
| 18:03 | (i don't understand, what do you mean with "index" ) | |
| 18:05 | jwagner | are you running the zebra update cron job? |
| 18:06 | somebody who knows, what's the link to the indexing setup instructions? | |
| 18:06 | CharlottevL | zebra update cron job - running... |
| 18:07 | cait1 joined #koha | |
| 18:10 | jcamins | Install.debian? |
| 18:10 | wahanui | Install.debian is at git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=INSTALL.debian |
| 18:10 | jcamins | ^^ |
| 18:11 | Woohoo! | |
| 18:12 | I have changed the record export process efficiency from O(n) to O(4n)! | |
| 18:12 | Possibly going in the wrong direction, there. | |
| 18:13 | * jcamins | waves to cait1. |
| 18:14 | trea left #koha | |
| 18:15 | cait1 | hi jcamins :) |
| 18:19 | CharlottevL | :( |
| 18:20 | oleonard | still no luck with holds CharlottevL ? |
| 18:22 | CharlottevL | I thing, problem aren't holds, problem is, that in staff search, there is "no items" in location column :( |
| 18:23 | jwagner | Are you sure the item records have valid codes in them, for branch, item type, etc.? |
| 18:27 | CharlottevL | yes, item type, location, home location, shelving location, everything is filled.. |
| 18:29 | logbot joined #koha | |
| 18:32 | jwagner | That still strikes me as some kind of an indexing problem and I'm not sure it's related to the holds problem. I have to leave in a few minutes, though. Probably other people have some ideas... |
| 18:36 | sekjal joined #koha | |
| 18:37 | sekjal | hi, #koha |
| 18:37 | tcohen | hi sekjal |
| 18:37 | jcamins | Hi sekjal. |
| 18:38 | sekjal | hi tcohen, jcamins |
| 18:38 | jcamins | tcohen++ |
| 18:39 | tcohen | jcamins? |
| 18:39 | wahanui | jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins |
| 18:40 | tcohen | hehe |
| 18:40 | jcamins | tcohen: your volunteering to fix up the Ubuntu installation docs. |
| 18:41 | tcohen | oh, i'll do it, just need to clarify on the ubuntu version support thing |
| 18:41 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 18:42 | jcamins | Yes, and that wins you karma. :) |
| 18:44 | tcohen | well, i'll start tomorrow, when I get some feedback |
| 18:44 | now gotta leave! | |
| 18:44 | bye #koha | |
| 18:45 | sekjal | bye, tcohen! |
| 18:46 | jcamins | sekjal: have you gotten UMass to switch to Koha yet? ;) |
| 18:47 | sekjal | jcamins: not yet |
| 18:47 | problem is, we're in a consortium, so we have 4 other colleges to convince | |
| 18:47 | but I have taken my first crash course in JQuery Mobile! | |
| 18:48 | jcamins | Woohoo! |
| 18:49 | sekjal | creating a tablet-based headcount tool a la NCSU's Suma (but based off our CMS and Piwik) |
| 18:53 | jcamins | Have I commented recently on the silliness of using "Cookery" as a subject heading... ever? |
| 18:53 | Has anyone ever used that term? | |
| 18:53 | Oh, drat. | |
| 18:53 | I forgot to remove a warn. | |
| 18:56 | oleonard | jcamins: It's the canonical example of bad subject headings. So yes, everyone, often. |
| 18:56 | jcamins | lol |
| 18:56 | I meant "anyone who wasn't a cataloger." | |
| 18:57 | A slightly perplexing heading: "St. Louis, Betty Wedman-". | |
| 19:04 | SJeffery joined #koha | |
| 19:10 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 19:12 | schuster | So when looking at the OPAC and XSLTBloc how does the .tt know to display the Detail or the Results XSLT format? |
| 19:12 | jcamins | schuster: it's passed in. |
| 19:13 | schuster | From where? the pl or? |
| 19:13 | * Oak | waves goodbye |
| 19:20 | * wizzyrea | recalls nengard going on about cookery a while back |
| 19:21 | jcamins | oleonard: if you wanted to make a configuration page that involved checking lots of buttons and putting things in order, what would you use to create that page? |
| 19:23 | oleonard: this is good for putting things in order, but I'm not sure you'd approve of it for enabling lots of plugins: http://jqueryui.com/demos/draggable/#sortable | |
| 19:24 | oleonard | I've got no problem with adding that |
| 19:24 | jcamins | I mean, the configuration page in question would be for enabling plugins. |
| 19:24 | Suggestion plugins, for example: spelling, from authorities, from VIAF, from... | |
| 19:24 | etc. | |
| 19:25 | They need to be put in the proper order (where "proper" = the order the library wants), but they also have to be enabled or disabled. | |
| 19:31 | wizzyrea | jcamins have you looked much at how wordpress does plugins? |
| 19:32 | jcamins | wizzyrea: I think plugins are just enabled or disabled with Wordpress, aren't they? |
| 19:33 | oleonard | jcamins: I could see you emulating the jqueryui example you posted, with checkboxes in each of the sortable divs, or a layout where you move each sortable item from the "disabled" box to the "enabled" box |
| 19:33 | jcamins | Also, to clarify, when I say "plugin" I don't mean user-accessible plugins a la bug 7804. |
| 19:33 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7804 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, In Discussion , Add Koha Plugin System |
| 19:33 | jcamins | oleonard: ah, good call. I like the checkbox idea. |
| 19:33 | I knew you would have a solution. :) | |
| 19:35 | oleonard | Of course I'm best at nick-picking others' designs, so I'll wait until you release yours and then mess with it ;) |
| 19:35 | jcamins | lol |
| 19:35 | Fair enough. | |
| 19:38 | * oleonard | grumbles that he had a nice working JS-based solution for Bug 4354, but that was before hour loans and hard due dates |
| 19:38 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4354 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, REOPENED , Cannot edit existing issuing rules |
| 19:38 | wizzyrea | what other state is there, jcamins? |
| 19:39 | besides "on" or "off" | |
| 19:39 | oh | |
| 19:39 | rangi | Morning |
| 19:40 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
| 19:40 | wizzyrea | never mind I was thinking of user accessible ones |
| 19:40 | morning rangi | |
| 19:42 | jcamins | Morning. |
| 19:42 | wahanui | i guess morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast. |
| 19:45 | oleonard | Wow, I just noticed admin/smart-rules.pl is chock full of SQL. Is that kosher? |
| 19:45 | rangi | It's not halal |
| 19:46 | Yeah. Now. We should fix it | |
| 19:47 | Oh man I missed Schuster | |
| 19:47 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 19:49 | rangi | I already have my abstract written in my head |
| 19:49 | The shower strikes again | |
| 19:50 | jcamins | What are you and schuster presenting on? |
| 19:50 | oleonard | Presenting? |
| 19:51 | jcamins | Abstract? |
| 19:51 | Huh? | |
| 19:51 | * jcamins | is confused, and wanted to make sure everyone else was, too. |
| 19:51 | jcamins | Wow. |
| 19:51 | Module::Pluggable is *awesome*. | |
| 19:51 | rangi | Kohacon13 |
| 19:51 | wahanui | Kohacon13 is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]osals_for_hosting |
| 19:52 | rangi | It is |
| 19:52 | jcamins | Ah. |
| 19:52 | So, what are you and Schuster presenting on? | |
| 19:52 | rangi | I want to use it for Koha::Auth |
| 19:52 | jcamins | Yes! |
| 19:52 | Do it! | |
| 19:52 | It will make your life better. | |
| 19:52 | rangi | Oh hmm I hadn't factored in Schuster |
| 19:52 | Hmm | |
| 19:53 | jcamins | Huh? |
| 19:53 | * drojf | does not understand a word |
| 19:53 | * wizzyrea | either |
| 19:53 | gets the popcorn | |
| 19:53 | wizzyrea | it's gonna be like watching Donnie Darko. |
| 19:53 | drojf | yeah popcorn, let's sit quietly in the corner and eat and let the grown ups talk |
| 19:53 | * wizzyrea | nods |
| 19:53 | rangi | Schuster and abstract totally unrelated |
| 19:54 | Apart from he organised kohacon09 | |
| 19:54 | Which jogged my brain | |
| 19:55 | But maybe by next year his new library will be on koha | |
| 19:55 | * wizzyrea | marvels at the way the human mind works |
| 19:55 | jcamins | Ohhh. |
| 19:55 | SJeffery | ^^ That is working? |
| 19:56 | jcamins | Hey, now. |
| 19:56 | Popcorn is a vital part of any work day. | |
| 19:56 | wizzyrea | especially when things get weird. |
| 19:57 | rangi | I will also answer questions only from ppl who beat me in a hand of blackjack |
| 19:57 | drojf | to brighten up the discussion a little, has anyone of you experience with small solar panels? |
| 19:58 | rangi | Not me |
| 19:58 | jcamins | drojf: a little, why? |
| 19:58 | And, how small? | |
| 19:58 | drojf | small enough to power a raspberry pi? |
| 19:58 | * wizzyrea | has those solar lights by her sidewalk, if that counts |
| 19:58 | wizzyrea | oh drojf, I saw a thing the other day on how to repurpose those cheap solar cells… let me see if I can find it |
| 20:00 | rangi | Coffee time |
| 20:00 | drojf | i'm not really sure what my question is about it. a genral "how does it work/ what do i need" i guess. i looked at ebay a little, you can either get just a panel and some cables, or you can get a whole charge controller thingy |
| 20:00 | rangi | Brian |
| 20:00 | wizzyrea | http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/s[…]ps-tech-projects/ |
| 20:00 | rangi | Doh |
| 20:00 | Bbiab | |
| 20:00 | Swype is balls | |
| 20:01 | wizzyrea | keke |
| 20:01 | ^^ that link was for you drojf | |
| 20:01 | drojf | that looks cool, thanks wizzyrea |
| 20:01 | wizzyrea | you made me do a tmmto |
| 20:01 | ;) | |
| 20:01 | (that makes me think of) | |
| 20:02 | if you can run a raspberry pi off of AAA batteries, I think you could use those lamps to charge them | |
| 20:02 | dk how stable the current is tho | |
| 20:03 | or use the panels in several lamps | |
| 20:03 | jcamins | wizzyrea: not very. You need to filter it and you need some sort of battery for when the sun isn't up. |
| 20:03 | * jcamins | was picturing 1m^3 solar panels when you said "small" |
| 20:04 | wizzyrea | right, those lights basically work on the principle that the battery runs the light, and the solar cell charges the battery |
| 20:04 | and they have a photodetector that turns off the light during the day | |
| 20:04 | so battery only charges when it's light out | |
| 20:04 | nengard left #koha | |
| 20:04 | wizzyrea | hehe no i meant 5cm^2 |
| 20:04 | ;) | |
| 20:05 | jcamins | I mean, I thought drojf meant 1m^2 |
| 20:05 | Not cubed, squared. | |
| 20:05 | drojf | heh i think that would be too much already |
| 20:06 | the battery problem lead me to the controller thing. like this maybe http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-3A[…]sh=item5ae2c5d6b1 | |
| 20:06 | jcamins | So incredibly awesome. Module::Pluggable is a wonderful thing. |
| 20:06 | Or you could build your own. Is fun! | |
| 20:06 | * oleonard | suggests that after a few dates jcamins ask Module::Pluggable to go steady |
| 20:07 | drojf | lol |
| 20:07 | jcamins | lol |
| 20:07 | I meant building your own controller is fun. | |
| 20:07 | drojf | jcamins: "fun"? i have npo idea how to do that, but that thing in the picture looks like more than i can do myself |
| 20:08 | * wizzyrea | smells the perl-omones that Module::Pluggable is giving off, decides it's probably best to leave them alone |
| 20:08 | wizzyrea | where them = jcamins and Mod::Pluggable |
| 20:08 | drojf which picture? | |
| 20:08 | jcamins | oleonard: wizzyrea: laugh if you will, but you're going to feel differently when "did you mean?" can be extended without doing any real work at all. |
| 20:09 | wizzyrea | oh I am glad you are having a love affair with it |
| 20:09 | jcamins | drojf: http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/scc3/ |
| 20:09 | drojf | wizzyrea: the ebay link i sent a minute ago or so |
| 20:09 | jcamins | Though we had a simpler one. |
| 20:09 | wizzyrea | ohhh |
| 20:09 | my parents had a solar water heater when i was a kid | |
| 20:09 | we NEVER ran out of hot water. Ever. | |
| 20:10 | plus it was a great place to play under in the summer :P | |
| 20:10 | under the solar panels | |
| 20:10 | drojf | wow, the internet knows everything. thanks jcamins |
| 20:11 | jcamins | drojf: http://www.trevorshp.com/creat[…]/solarcharger.htm |
| 20:11 | oleonard | Isn't the never-running-out a factor of the size of the water tank rather than the solar aspect wizzyrea ? |
| 20:11 | wizzyrea | yes and no - we wouldn't have had the huge tanks except that we had a solar system |
| 20:12 | but technically you are right | |
| 20:12 | oleonard | I get it |
| 20:13 | drojf | jcamins: excellent. thanks |
| 20:14 | wizzyrea | but you *can* scavenge the panels from those little lights :) |
| 20:14 | jcamins | drojf: the problem will be maintaining the current when switching between solar and battery. |
| 20:14 | rangi | back |
| 20:14 | wizzyrea | they are like, 2 bucks here, cheaper now since they are on sale because of midsummer |
| 20:15 | jcamins | We didn't care so much because it was just the radio and starter. |
| 20:20 | drojf | ok that looks cool. so basically a panel, controller and battery and that's it. i won't get bored once the wifi access point is stable on the pi ;) |
| 20:20 | wizzyrea | drojf: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r[…]e/~3/DWzQVAHdZyk/ |
| 20:20 | you saw this no doubt? | |
| 20:21 | drojf | yes, but i have not tried it yet |
| 20:21 | * oleonard | wonders if it will stop raining buckets in the next 10 minutes or if he should make a run for it |
| 20:22 | jcamins | oleonard: I was wondering that too, actually. |
| 20:22 | * wizzyrea | is jealous |
| 20:22 | wizzyrea | you have wet stuff falling from the sky? what's that like |
| 20:23 | oleonard | Quite novel actually |
| 20:24 | Hey me, remember when you saw that umbrella in the hall and told yourself you ought to toss that into your car? | |
| 20:25 | Aaaaand, it's gone. | |
| 20:25 | rangi | heh |
| 20:27 | oleonard | See ya later everybody |
| 20:34 | wizzyrea | @wunder lawrence ks |
| 20:34 | huginn | wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 40.4°C (3:34 PM CDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Falling). Heat advisory in effect until 7 PM CDT Sunday... |
| 20:34 | wizzyrea | oh look at that. |
| 20:34 | jcamins | @wunder 11375 |
| 20:34 | huginn | jcamins: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Jackson Heights NY US, Corona, New York is 30.6°C (4:02 PM EDT on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising). Heat advisory in effect until 6 PM EDT this evening... |
| 20:35 | drojf | @wunder berlin, germany |
| 20:35 | wizzyrea | awful. |
| 20:35 | huginn | drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 18.9°C (10:12 PM CEST on July 18, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Falling). |
| 20:35 | jcamins | Is it really still that hot? |
| 20:35 | No. | |
| 20:35 | wizzyrea | heh, 40.4, now that is hot. |
| 20:35 | jcamins | It also didn't warn that there's a flood advisory. |
| 20:40 | rangi | @wunder nzwn |
| 20:40 | huginn | rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (8:00 AM NZST on July 19, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Steady). |
| 20:42 | drojf | you should mix your weathers a little, then you'll get what we have here ;) |
| 20:47 | sekjal | night, #koha! |
| 20:51 | trea joined #koha | |
| 21:03 | wizzyrea | @later tell jcamins http://laughingsquid.com/wp-co[…]yc-storm-2012.jpg holy moly, this was your storm from today |
| 21:03 | huginn | wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. |
| 21:03 | jcamins | o.O |
| 21:04 | wizzyrea | oh i thought you were gone >.> |
| 21:05 | jcamins | Nope. |
| 21:05 | Writing tests. | |
| 21:08 | rangi | jcamins++ |
| 21:11 | jcamins | my @installed_filters = map { "Koha::Filters::MARC::$_" } grep { /\.pm$/ && -f "$filterdir/$_" } readdir($dh); |
| 21:11 | I would like to do that in a non-horrifying ways. | |
| 21:11 | Any suggestions? | |
| 21:12 | Alas, I'm too early for papa, I think. | |
| 21:12 | Also, I need to remove the ".pm" from that string. | |
| 21:13 | libsysguy | jcamins wth is that man |
| 21:14 | jcamins | I combined the grep and the map. |
| 21:14 | So... how do I remove the .pm$? | |
| 21:14 | rangi | yeah its only 7am in brisbane |
| 21:15 | he'll be here in an hour or 2 | |
| 21:15 | jcamins | It worked! |
| 21:15 | rangi | how cool is this |
| 21:15 | jcamins | :D |
| 21:15 | rangi | "I am keen to do unit |
| 21:15 | testing for Koha with Chris if that can be arranged and also work in any | |
| 21:15 | other projects that are available." | |
| 21:15 | jcamins | Who gets the karma? |
| 21:15 | rangi | yay for high school kids who want to write tests! |
| 21:16 | 2 of the catalyst academy kids want to continue working | |
| 21:16 | jcamins | (very cool... karma-deserving cool, in fact) |
| 21:16 | rangi | well karma for ibeardslee and anitsirk for running the academy too |
| 21:16 | wahanui | ibeardslee and anitsirk for running the academy too has neutral karma |
| 21:16 | rangi | heh |
| 21:17 | jcamins | ibeardslee++ |
| 21:17 | anitsirk++ | |
| 21:18 | This is so cool! | |
| 21:18 | I did a search on "Holiday cookery" and got the results for "Holiday cooking"! | |
| 21:18 | :D | |
| 21:19 | rangi | nice! |
| 21:19 | see instead? | |
| 21:19 | or see also? | |
| 21:19 | jcamins | See instead. |
| 21:20 | Okay, I now have two arrays and want to confirm that they have the same contents. | |
| 21:21 | Excuse me... I want to confirm that all the items in one are in the other. | |
| 21:22 | Ah, got it. | |
| 21:22 | ibeardslee | rangi: which ones? |
| 21:22 | wahanui | which ones are those? |
| 21:24 | ibeardslee | shush you |
| 21:25 | rangi | bart and jorgia |
| 21:25 | one uni, one high school now | |
| 21:25 | jcamins | bart++ |
| 21:25 | jorgia++ | |
| 21:27 | ibeardslee | oh good stuff |
| 21:28 | cait joined #koha | |
| 21:29 | rangi | hey cait |
| 21:29 | cait | hi rangi |
| 21:31 | jcamins | How do you initialize an empty array? |
| 21:31 | rangi | () |
| 21:31 | my @array=() or [] if its a ref | |
| 21:31 | at least thats what my not caffeinated enough brain is saying | |
| 21:33 | jcamins | Yeah, that worked. |
| 21:36 | cait | that's what modern perl says too |
| 21:36 | use an empty list | |
| 21:40 | jcamins | Wait a minute! I don't need the DB at all to test this all the way! |
| 21:40 | Wait... | |
| 21:40 | Do I? | |
| 21:40 | Can you force garbage collection in Perl? | |
| 21:40 | cait | I have no idea what you are talking about |
| 21:40 | but I have stable internet - finally | |
| 21:40 | * cait | is happy now |
| 21:42 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 21:45 | rangi | yep |
| 21:45 | you make a DESTROY sub | |
| 21:46 | http://perldoc.perl.org/perlobj.html#Destructors | |
| 21:46 | jcamins | rangi: I have the DESTROY sub. |
| 21:46 | rangi | i want to write |
| 21:46 | jcamins | What I want to do is call it in a unit test. |
| 21:46 | TEST ALL THE THINGS!!!! | |
| 21:46 | rangi | Acme::Dalek |
| 21:46 | jcamins | :) |
| 21:46 | lol | |
| 21:47 | rangi | which changes destroy to EXTERMINATE_EXTERMINATE |
| 21:47 | can you go $self->DESTROY | |
| 21:47 | ? | |
| 21:48 | jcamins | Hm. |
| 21:48 | Oh, I know. | |
| 21:48 | I can use eval {} | |
| 21:48 | cait | oh no, no self destruction please! |
| 21:48 | jcamins | If it goes out of scope, it'll save any errors in $somethingorother. |
| 21:50 | Woohoo! | |
| 21:50 | Successfully tested the entire file. | |
| 21:50 | rangi: how do I get a coverage thingy to confirm that I didn't miss anything? | |
| 21:52 | rangi | prove_cover |
| 21:52 | http://search.cpan.org/~natana[…]3/bin/prove_cover | |
| 21:52 | prove_cover mytest | |
| 21:53 | jcamins | A tricky one... not in Debian? |
| 21:54 | Oh, libdevel-cover-perl | |
| 21:54 | rangi | yep |
| 21:54 | jcamins | Or not. |
| 21:55 | cait | jcamins: what are you doing? |
| 21:55 | rangi | im 99% sure i didnt cpan it on |
| 21:56 | jcamins | cait: testing all the things!!!! |
| 21:57 | Doesn't seem to be available anywhere. | |
| 21:59 | cait | testing all the tings sounds brilliant |
| 21:59 | oh | |
| 21:59 | rangi | jcamins: you can just use cover |
| 21:59 | if you dont want to run the tests at the same time | |
| 21:59 | just want coverage | |
| 22:00 | https://metacpan.org/module/Devel::Cover | |
| 22:00 | cait | did anyone know that when you hit enter while you are in the vendor number field in subscriptions you get a perl error? |
| 22:00 | why do I only find such things when doing presentatoins? | |
| 22:01 | jcamins | Ah, cool. |
| 22:01 | Thanks. | |
| 22:03 | pastebot | "jcamins" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "ok 1 - use Koha::RecordProcess" (38 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/39 |
| 22:03 | jcamins | Need to figure out what it's not testing in Record::Processor. |
| 22:04 | edveal left #koha | |
| 22:11 | jcamins | How do I get a count of items in a list that match a particular regex? |
| 22:11 | * jcamins | tries grep |
| 22:12 | libsysguy | rangi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpS7nCweYZI |
| 22:12 | its been awhile since I shared | |
| 22:13 | every time I squash a bug I want my computer to play 'fatality' | |
| 22:13 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 22:13 | rangi | heh |
| 22:13 | heya tcohen | |
| 22:13 | tcohen | hi rangi |
| 22:13 | jcamins | Okay, that's enough testing for one module. :) |
| 22:13 | tcohen | how r u doing' |
| 22:13 | rangi | bad luck on not winning the bid .. now next year im gonna have to agonise over nigeria or argentina again! :) |
| 22:14 | tcohen | hahaha |
| 22:14 | jcamins | How do I remove a file from a commit? |
| 22:14 | tcohen | i'm planning a fund raise so I can fly to nevada! |
| 22:15 | rangi | git reset file git commit --amend |
| 22:15 | jcamins | Thanks. |
| 22:15 | tcohen | backing up the file first? |
| 22:16 | rangi | well it will still be there, you can stash it if you want |
| 22:16 | jcamins | There we go. |
| 22:16 | Perfect. | |
| 22:17 | tcohen | ALTER TABLE issues DROP FOREIGN KEY `issues_ibfk_2 |
| 22:17 | gives me | |
| 22:18 | DBD::mysql::db do failed: Error on rename of './koha_ues/issues' to './koha_ues/#sql2-325-2d' (errno: 152) | |
| 22:18 | rangi | tcohen: i hope you can make it :) i will buy you dinner |
| 22:18 | ahh it makes a temp table while it does the alter table | |
| 22:19 | tcohen | updatedatabase.pl line 4425 |
| 22:19 | is it a bug or is it a faulty configuration in mysql server? | |
| 22:23 | martian523 joined #koha | |
| 22:24 | martian523 | hi, back again |
| 22:24 | is there a way to batch delete patrons on koha 3.8? | |
| 22:24 | rangi | libsysguy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?[…]6QnQ&feature=plcp |
| 22:25 | martian523: not in 3.8 no | |
| 22:25 | libsysguy | haha every time i see this i lol hard |
| 22:25 | rangi | yep :) |
| 22:25 | martian523 | so i have to delete one by one? |
| 22:26 | rangi | yes, you can do it in the db, but that wont check if they have items on issue or hold etc |
| 22:26 | martian523 | sigh! |
| 22:26 | libsysguy | rangi I thought there were fk restraints for that? |
| 22:26 | rangi | there is code for batch modifications and deletes of patrons in testing at the moment |
| 22:27 | libsysguy: no, there are cascade on deletes | |
| 22:27 | libsysguy | ahhh |
| 22:27 | rangi | for some anyway |
| 22:27 | martian523 | thanks for the help though |
| 22:27 | tcohen | you might first anonumize patrons |
| 22:27 | libsysguy | is there a bug no for that batch mod rangi? |
| 22:28 | rangi | martian523: you could look at bug 5742 |
| 22:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , batch edit patrons |
| 22:28 | rangi | its in master now, so should be in 3.10.0 |
| 22:28 | libsysguy | ok cool |
| 22:29 | cait | hm but think you can't batch delete |
| 22:29 | only edit | |
| 22:29 | tcohen | ALTER TABLE issues DROP FOREIGN KEY `issues_ibfk_2`; |
| 22:29 | Query OK, 847 rows affected (0.26 sec) | |
| 22:29 | Records: 847 Duplicates: 0 Warnings: 0 | |
| 22:29 | that's weird | |
| 22:29 | rangi | tcohen: disk space? |
| 22:29 | tcohen | running that query from updatedatabase.pl raised the error |
| 22:30 | 37% usage | |
| 22:30 | 4.6GB free | |
| 22:30 | rangi | same user in both cases? |
| 22:30 | tcohen | root in both cases |
| 22:30 | rangi | no idea |
| 22:30 | tcohen | koha-upgrade-schema |
| 22:31 | at least I'm the only one with this problem | |
| 22:31 | rangi | hmm that will run as the user |
| 22:31 | tcohen | :-D |
| 22:31 | rangi | not root |
| 22:31 | tcohen | oh |
| 22:31 | rangi | unless the user in your koha-conf.xml is root |
| 22:32 | tcohen | no its not |
| 22:32 | rangi | the nice thing with it is, it su to the user |
| 22:32 | and runs the ugprade as that user using that instances conf | |
| 22:32 | (you can have multiple koha running easily with the packages) | |
| 22:33 | tcohen | yes, i've been using them for testing purposes |
| 22:33 | but when I received this old 3.1.X DB | |
| 22:33 | for upgrading... with all tables using MyISAM | |
| 22:33 | ... | |
| 22:34 | jcamins | eythian just dealt with an upgrade like that. |
| 22:34 | tcohen | got this weird problems when s/MyISAM/InnoDB/ I guess |
| 22:34 | rangi | ahhhh |
| 22:34 | yeah you want to fix them, you dont want MyISAM | |
| 22:35 | no foreign keys with that | |
| 22:35 | tcohen | is it ok if I replace in the dump? |
| 22:35 | rangi | in theory yes |
| 22:35 | tcohen | Engine=MyISAM for... ok |
| 22:35 | rangi | in practice back up :) |
| 22:35 | i think it should work fine | |
| 22:38 | * jcamins | goes to eat dinner. |
| 23:39 | papa joined #koha | |
| 23:41 | jcamins_away | rangi: want to see graphically just how bad C4 is? |
| 23:41 | http://paste.koha-community.org/40 | |
| 23:42 | Judit joined #koha | |
| 23:42 | Judit | good morning |
| 23:42 | jcamins_away | That from "use C4::Heading" and "use C4::AuthoritesMarc" |
| 23:43 | Actually, that's all from AuthoritiesMarc. | |
| 23:43 | Wait, actually, I'm using Devel::Cover wrong. | |
| 23:44 | Hm. No I'm not. | |
| 23:46 | rangi | jcamins_away: its all in jenkins and has been for years |
| 23:46 | http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ter/HTML_Report/? | |
| 23:47 | the good news is it was 38% sub coverage and is now 53.1 | |
| 23:47 | the trend is in the right direction | |
| 23:47 | jcamins_away | Oh, I know. |
| 23:47 | That was from *one test*. | |
| 23:47 | On one file. | |
| 23:47 | Which used C4::AuthoritiesMarc. | |
| 23:48 | mtj | hay, i just discovered something nice about perlcritic too.... |
| 23:48 | rangi | yep, too many uses |
| 23:48 | jcamins_away | And nothing else. |
| 23:48 | rangi | hence, Koha:: |
| 23:48 | which if it has no other goal, breaking that chain should be the only one | |
| 23:48 | actually its the only thing I care about for Koha:: | |
| 23:48 | stop the dependency chains | |
| 23:48 | the rest is all gravy | |
| 23:49 | jcamins_away | I actually already moved all the required functionality to Koha::, but since it was one function call, I wondered what it'd look like if I shimmed in GetAuthority. |
| 23:49 | (hint: it looks outrageous) | |
| 23:49 | mtj | perlcritic (with a default config) gives some false violations for ./koha.git dir |
| 23:51 | i tweaked a .perlcritic file, and its down from 671, too 551 violations :) | |
| 23:51 | $ cat .perlcriticrc | |
| 23:51 | [TestingAndDebugging::RequireUseStrict] | |
| 23:51 | equivalent_modules = Modern::Perl | |
| 23:51 | . | |
| 23:52 | rangi | that should already be in there mtj |
| 23:52 | look at t/perlcriticrc | |
| 23:53 | which is what the 00-testcritc.t test uses | |
| 23:53 | mtj | bah, so it is :p |
| 23:53 | rangi | my $rcfile = File::Spec->catfile( 't', 'perlcriticrc' ); |
| 23:54 | overtime we can make it more strict, when we get all the nasty category 5 errors gone :) | |
| 23:54 | id like to run it stricter on Koha:: already | |
| 23:54 | jcamins_away | fix_marc21_auth_type_location |
| 23:54 | rangi | no point introducing mess |
| 23:54 | also, maybe make a rule | |
| 23:54 | no module in Koha | |
| 23:54 | without a test | |
| 23:54 | arent you glad im not RM anymore :) | |
| 23:55 | jcamins_away | Horrible, horrible, horrible. |
| 23:55 | I can't imagine what that was for. | |
| 23:55 | There's POD. | |
| 23:55 | jcamins | And I read it. |
| 23:55 | And it didn't help. | |
| 23:56 | Oh wise rangi, I seek your advice. | |
| 23:56 | mtj | haay chris, have you spotted the perlcritic::progressive module? |
| 23:57 | rangi | not that i recall |
| 23:57 | about jcamins ? | |
| 23:57 | mtj | we could run a pc::prog test on a stricter level... |
| 23:58 | rangi | mtj: i think for the Koha:: space thats a good idea |
| 23:58 | and the .pl files of course | |
| 23:58 | jcamins | rangi: oh, sorry, got distracted. |
| 23:58 | rangi | C4/ is a lost cause |
| 23:58 | jcamins | Right. |
| 23:58 | mtj | progressive means it ignores the *current* violations, but will bitch about new ones, only |
| 23:58 | jcamins | So, fix_marc21_auth_type_location. |
| 23:58 | Where should it go in Koha::? | |
| 23:58 | rangi | ahhh then that for C4/ |
| 23:58 | and all violations for Koha | |
| 23:59 | jcamins | I'm creating Koha::Authority |
| 23:59 | rangi | what does it even do |
| 23:59 | remember ive spent my life trying not to learn about MARC | |
| 23:59 | that and HTML | |
| 23:59 | jcamins | Oh, I don't understand what it does. |
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