IRC log for #koha, 2012-06-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:01	mtj	here's some more info about google's penguin update -> http://searchengineland.com/go[…]thm-update-122518
00:01		'Google Penguin Update Recovery Tips & Advice' -> http://searchengineland.com/pe[…]ips-advice-119650
00:03		http://searchengineland.com/pe[…]m-for-that-119698
00:04	bencahill	Wow, that site has a lot of deets.
00:06		They say the Penguin update was April 24th, though. I know I searched for 'koha' (I'll look back in my Google Web History in a sec) less than a week ago, and k-c.org was second (after liblime). :-/
00:08		melia left #koha
00:10	mtj	looks like the google f*ck-up hit kc.org on 4th june - 2 days ago...
00:10	bencahill	Yup, 8:04pm (Central time) Jun 1, I searched for 'koha' and went to koha-community.org from there. So it's within the last 4 days.
00:10		mtj: Ok, that makes sense.
00:11	* bencahill	searches a lot, according to Google's history. 25,175 total (and that's just since I've had this account!)
00:40		ago43 joined #koha
01:45		Oak joined #koha
01:59		mtompset joined #koha
02:00	mtompset	Hello #koha.
02:00		Anyone awake out there?
02:03	* mtompset	waits for the wiki.koha-community.org administrator types to resurface.
02:04	Oak	administrator types may pop up.
02:04		we wait.
02:06	mtompset	What bugs me is that I saw nengard online yesterday, but forgot to mention my registration issues.
02:06	Oak	you'll get another chance :)
02:06	mtompset	She's #3 on the list of potentially 6 people that might be able to help me.
02:06	Oak	you have a list?
02:06		kidding
02:07	mtompset	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ministration#wiki.koha-community.org
02:07	Oak	nengard and bengard were here yesterday, yes.
02:07	mtompset	I don't have a list. It's on the wiki. :P
02:08	Oak	:)
02:08	mtompset	By the way, Oak. I tried clicking the pretty tabs at the top of your page link you gave me yesterday.
02:08		They didn't work.
02:09	Oak	yes, i need text / content for those tabs.
02:09		will add them soon.
02:10	mtompset	Did you generate those pages by overriding some opac CSS page?
02:10	Oak	yup
02:11	* jcamins_away	wanders in.
02:11	Oak	hello jcamins_away :)
02:11		come in come in
02:11	mtompset	Greetings, jcamins_away.
02:13		So you just tweaked a setting in the system preferences somewhere, and added your own CSS?
02:13	Oak	yup
02:16	mtompset	what version are you running?
02:16	Oak	3.6.4
02:17	* Oak	is cleaning his hard disk -- deleting stuff
02:21	mtompset	I'm doing a fresh install of koha under Ubuntu 12.04
02:24		base install: 1.5 hours
02:25		apt-get update, upgrade: 20 minutes
02:25		getting same copy as what is running: 5 minutes
02:26		./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' > ~/installthese.sh
02:27		shoot ... should have | sort first
02:30		then a nice :%s/^/sudo apt-get -y install /g
02:36		roygbivovac joined #koha
02:41	mtompset	I figure that should take until mid-afternoon. :)
02:50	bencahill	mtompset: I'll be installing on 12.04 soon as well...I'll hang around to see what your outcome is :P
02:52	* bencahill	is going to bed now, will be back in a bunch of hours :P
02:52	mtompset	Sure... I've done it a couple times, but I'm trying to do it cleanly this time and document steps.
02:53		I am doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
02:53		But the NEXT test is to do an upgrade.
02:53	bencahill	Ah, cool.
02:53	mtompset	I'm hoping to transport from Ubuntu 10.04
02:54		to Ubuntu 12.04
02:54		and then from koha 3.6.3
02:54		to koha 3.8.1
02:54	bencahill	Oh, so not a fresh install?
02:54	mtompset	the Ubuntu 12.04 is frensh.
02:54		fresh
02:54	bencahill	Fresh install of koha...
02:54	mtompset	The koha 3.6.3 install on ubuntu 12.04 is fresh
02:55	bencahill	Oh, you mean just transfer the db and settings, not the actual install of koha?
02:55	mtompset	Install Ubuntu 12.04: check
02:55		Install empty koha 3.6.3: check
02:56		Import mysqldmp of koha 3.6.3 being used on ubuntu 10.04
02:56	* bencahill	is getting a box with an i3-2120 for new build
02:56	jcamins_away	bencahill: woohoo!
02:56	bencahill	heh
02:57	mtompset	sounds nice.
02:57	bencahill	jcamins_away: I figure that will be a massive upgrade from our current P4 2.4 :P
02:57	jcamins_away	bencahill: yeah, I think so.
02:57	bencahill	;)
02:57	mtompset	But why not an i7-2600k?
02:58	bencahill	I think we're planning on getting a dell costing $355...a 500GB HDD and just 2GB RAM...
02:58	mtompset	Is i3-2120 the third generation intel?
02:58	bencahill	mtompset: The intel pages said 2nd
02:59	jcamins_away	bencahill: if I were trying really hard to save money, I probably would've gone with a smaller HDD.
02:59		With 2GB RAM, you're not going to be able to run a whole lot on that machine.
02:59	bencahill	jcamins_away: Yeah, we're not paying extra for that...
02:59	jcamins_away	bencahill: can't you pay less for a 250?
02:59	bencahill	250?
02:59	wahanui	250 is, like, the number all of those wicked, naughty grant reviewers ask for
03:00	bencahill	Oh d'oh
03:00	jcamins_away	250GB.
03:00	bencahill	jcamins_away: Not really...we could pay $330 for a tiny computer, but we really don't want that.
03:00	jcamins_away	Right.
03:01	bencahill	jcamins_away: No, you can't drop it lower than it lets you...the one in question is an Inspiron 260, base model with upgraded CPU to i3-2120
03:01	jcamins_away	Well, never mind that idea.
03:01	bencahill	I spent the better part of a day figuring out what to buy and scouring eBay and such...
03:01	mtompset	Actually, if you are getting a server, why not go with the optiplex?
03:01	bencahill	mtompset: Budget is $300-400
03:01	jcamins_away	Ahh. The last time I actually bought a desktop, 80GB was standard.
03:02	bencahill	(oh, and 'tiny computer' = 10.4" tall o.0)
03:02	* jcamins_away	sells bookshelf-sized Koha appliances.
03:02	mtompset	That's a tiny budget for a server.
03:02	bencahill	jcamins_away: Yeah, most of our computers (including the current P4 server) have been given to us by friends and such.
03:02		mtompset: church...
03:03	mtompset	Ah... I understand.
03:03		roygbivovac joined #koha
03:03	bencahill	jcamins_away: In fact, the last time we bought a computer before our latest (AMD 5000+, 2GB DDR2, 160GB SATA, Radeon HD 3450) was probably about 10 years ago o_o
03:04		jcamins_away: Bookshelf-sized? Cool.
03:05	mtompset	Where are you located, bencahill?
03:05	bencahill	mtompset: Texas, USA
03:07	mtompset	Okay... just looking up what you are describing. :)
03:07		But I find that you need to look up at the right site location in order to find things. :)
03:07	bencahill	mtompset: Ah, I see
03:08	mtompset	I've done computer support for our organization, and I'd have to keep asking people: "Where did you buy this computer?"
03:08		Because it was a model sold in Hong Kong, but not the US.
03:08		Or the US, but not the Philippines.
03:08	jcamins_away	bencahill: http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-E-[…]1338952082&sr=1-1
03:09		^^ bookshelf-sized computer for the Koha appliance.
03:09	bencahill	jcamins_away: I see...I saw some of those in my searches a few days ago.
03:10	jcamins_away	bencahill: I didn't realize you worked for a church library... I thought you had an elementary school.
03:10	bencahill	hehe
03:10	mtompset	So what kind of inspiron are you thinking of bencahill?
03:11	bencahill	mtompset: 260 I think...
03:11		Also I think we were looking at the Vostro 620 MT
03:12		It was 349 a few days ago, but is now 399 :(
03:12		Nope, guessing it's Vostro 260 and Inspiron 620
03:12		(I knew they were switched, but couldn't remember which was which :P)
03:13	mtompset	laptop or desktop or all-in-1?
03:13	bencahill	mtompset: desktop
03:14	mtompset	vostro 260 mini tower... got it... okay.. looking at the specs now. :)
03:15		by the way... good choice on vostro over inspiron.
03:16	bencahill	mtompset: Why so? We're looking at the Inspiron because its $50 cheaper (and has a bigger HDD, but that doesn't really matter for us)
03:16		(actually $45)
03:16	mtompset	Well, here in the Philippines... heat and environment is a major kill factor.
03:17		vostro survives better. :)
03:17	bencahill	Ah.
03:17		brb
03:20	mtompset	@wunder EDI
03:21	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 10.9°C (4:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.53 in 1000 hPa (Steady).
03:21	mtompset	@wunder Toronto
03:21	huginn`	mtompset: Error: No such location could be found.
03:21	mtompset	@wunder YYZ
03:21	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Toronto Pearson, Ontario is 18.0°C (11:00 PM EDT on June 05, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
03:23	mtompset	Oh, and while I think of it, bencahill, Trend Micro is one of the worst Anti-Virus packages in the world!
03:25	jcamins_away	mtompset: fortunately Koha runs under Linux, and if you keep your security fixes up-to-date, Debian doesn't tend to get that many virii.
03:25	bencahill	mtompset: Hehe...I've never used it. We used to use AVG, then MSE for a while, and now Avast! (because its updates work through our proxy, unlike MSE)
03:25		jcamins_away++
03:26		(just for using virii :P)
03:26	* bencahill	is now on a slow Windows computer, RDP'ed into his linux box
03:27	jcamins_away	bencahill: RDP? Use SSH.
03:27	mtompset	Because he probably is used to the gui.
03:27	bencahill	jcamins_away: I normally would, but I wanted to use a web browser.
03:27		jcamins_away: 99% of time is SSH (putty)
03:28	* mtompset	likes putty. :)
03:28	bencahill	It's nice to have the possibility though.
03:28		mtompset: Nice and simple...I use putty portable (portableapps.com)
03:28	* jcamins_away	wanders off to get some sleep.
03:28	mtompset	why not web browse in the host?
03:28	bencahill	jcamins_away: cya, I will be soon as well ;)
03:28	mtompset	Have a good night, jcamins_away
03:28	bencahill	mtompset: Slow ;)
03:29		mtompset: Probably a years-old XP install on a P4 2.66 with 512MB ram
03:29		(years-old = painfully slow)
03:29	mtompset	you are telling me that web browsing in your VM is FASTER than browsing on the houst?!
03:29		^houst^host^
03:29	bencahill	mtompset: RDP..not VM, but yes.
03:30		(RDP is a remote access protocol)
03:30	mtompset	I'm aware. :)
03:30	bencahill	I don't know what you mean by host though...
03:30		I'm on danlap, viewing RDP on cahilllapa (linux). Web browsing is faster on cahilllapa than on danlap, so I'm doing it there.
03:30	mtompset	Are you running a VM?
03:30	bencahill	No.
03:31	mtompset	Ah, so your linux server is a separate machine.
03:31	bencahill	Yes. ;)
03:31		mtompset: It's the one I was on a few minutes ago (thus why I didn't disconnect)
03:31		tmux ftw!
03:33		It feels odd browsing the web so fast on this computer, like something is terribly wrong...in addition to the superior font rendering...
03:33	* mtompset	grins.
03:34	mtompset	28/88
03:34		= about 32% done the script I generated.
03:35		Yep... estimating 4.5 hours.
03:35		And that's before trying to compile up koha.
03:35		I mean install.
03:36	bencahill	lol
03:37	mtompset	So are you more of a librarian type or a developer type, bencahill?
03:37	bencahill	mtompset: The latter...sort of...I'd just say I'm a power user.
03:38		I write bash scripts though. :P
03:38	mtompset	Okay... so my command line wasn't confusing to you?
03:38	bencahill	Like this one: https://github.com/bencahill/b[…]master/picrenamer
03:38		mtompset: Your command line?
03:39	mtompset	./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort > ~/installthese.sh
03:39	bencahill	mtompset: Ah, no, looked pretty normal.
03:39		mtompset: I didn't bother to look at the file to see what it did, though. :P
03:40	mtompset	Well, I did have to vi it.
03:40	bencahill	Yeah, I noticed that.
03:40	* bencahill	loves vim
03:40	mtompset	:%s/^/apt-get -y install /g
03:41	bencahill	mtompset: ofc, you could also do that with sed/perl
03:41	mtompset	I did it the way I'm familiar with.
03:41	bencahill	Yup...I would as well. ;)
03:42	mtompset	I suppose I could do a for loop
03:42	bencahill	?
03:42		Oh.
03:42	mtompset	for i in `...`; do sudo apt-get -y install $i; done
03:43	bencahill	while read -r pkg; do sudo apt-get -y install "$pkg"; done < <(./install_misc/ubuntu-pkg-check.sh | grep none | cut -f1 -d' ' | sort)
03:43		That's what I would've done, actually.
03:44	mtompset	mine's shorter. :P
03:44	bencahill	See this: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/001
03:44		mtompset: Yes, but will fail in some cases. See above ^^
03:45		It's best to learn things the correct way, and then you avoid bad things when they might bite you.
03:47	mtompset	Why did you $(<file.txt)?!
03:47	bencahill	mtompset: I didn't.
03:47	mtompset	`cat file.txt` is more legible
03:47	bencahill	Ouch...
03:47	mtompset	http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:47	bencahill	I didn't read lines with for... :-/ ...you did :-?
03:48	mtompset	No, you aren't understanding...
03:48		You are saying don't use for, and then proceed to use $(<file.txt) in your example
03:48	bencahill	No...where?
03:48	mtompset	http://mywiki.wooledge.org/DontReadLinesWithFor
03:49	bencahill	mtompset: Where am I doing $(<file.txt) ?
03:49	mtompset	It must be late, or I'm not being clear. :)
03:49		for i in $(<afile); do echo "$i"; done
03:49		from the URL I have said twice.
03:49	bencahill	mtompset: Isn't ubuntu-pkg-check.sh something you run to get the desired output?
03:50		mtompset: Thus, I'm running it...not reading it.
03:50	mtompset	Yes, but why not `...`?
03:50	bencahill	mtompset: With a for loop?
03:50	mtompset	Why the whole $(...) mess?
03:50		Yes.
03:50	bencahill	mtompset: Because of the links you and I linked to. :-/
03:50	mtompset	Yes, if you next `'s you'll have to escape and it gets ugly.
03:51		That doesn't explain it.
03:51		Okay... let's say file X has:
03:51		ef gh
03:51	bencahill	mtompset: There are many pitfalls to using for that the wiki explains.
03:51	mtompset	It doesn't explain why you used the sample for you used.
03:52	bencahill	mtompset: You mean for a command rather than a file? It's the same, just a different source of input.
03:52	mtompset	http://mibpaste.com/ea9gcW
03:52	bencahill	mtompset: And the 001 FAQ does...search for <( on it.
03:53		mtompset: PRECISELY! for failed.
03:53		mtompset: And you don't want to cat anyway!
03:53	mtompset	Oh, because you want the \s on the same line?
03:53	bencahill	Yes.
03:54		mtompset: while read -r line; do echo "$line"; done <test.txt
03:55	mtompset	okay... just a second.
03:55		Okay cool.
03:55	bencahill	mtompset: If you include quotes in yours as well (always a good thing), then it is two characters shorter...that's a very lousy excuse for using something that will fail.
03:55	mtompset	I now see what you are talking about.
03:55	bencahill	mtompset: Yeah, don't trust me...trust that wiki. It is awesome.
03:58		mtompset: I'd highly recommend reading the BashGuide on that website; it is quite short, but will correct many of the common misconceptions I'm guessing you have. :)
03:58	mtompset	Hmmm... looking into IFS
03:59		You can always change IFS to be a different delimiter (eg. \n), then for works. ;)
04:00		But then while becomes shorter. ;)
04:00	bencahill	mtompset: Nope, read the page you linked. It's still globbing, and doesn't get empty lines.
04:00		mtompset: Not everything is possible; do things the right way, and you'll be safe. :)
04:00		Oak joined #koha
04:01	bencahill	mtompset: Also, as that page talks about, bash is much more inefficient using for to read a file, because it has to read the entire file twice into memory, rather than one line at a time.
04:01	mtompset	which is why someone used $var = q{}
04:02		and some qa person asked by not ''?
04:02	bencahill	I don't know what that is...
04:02	mtompset	and there was a link to some Perl::Critic page.
04:02	bencahill	Oh, perl...
04:03	mtompset	It got me thinking that perhaps there should be a mass hunt for '' and "" in the entire koha system to bring it up to spec.
04:04	* bencahill	doesn't know the first thing about perl
04:04	mtompset	Okay, I must conceed that the while method is superior and less fraught with side effects.
04:05	bencahill	mtompset: heh, you wouldn't last long in freenode/#bash ;P
04:05	mtompset	I don't claim to be a #bash expert.
04:05	bencahill	;)
04:05	mtompset	I claim to write usable bash, not good bash. :P
04:06		thanks for the education.
04:06	bencahill	No, I just mean that they don't explain things to you in long ways like I did; they whip you into shape quickly :P
04:06		mtompset: np :)
04:06	mtompset	that's because #koha folks are friendlier.
04:07	bencahill	This is true.
04:07	mtompset	I'm just so familiar with 'for', I hadn't got to using 'while'. :)
04:08		Anyways.. lunch for me, and bedtime for you. :)
04:08		Have a good night, bencahill.
04:08	bencahill	#koha and freenode/#darktable are two IRC channels I'd describe as friendly...although koha is a bit more organized :P
04:08		mtompset: re: while...that's perfectly understandable
04:08		mtompset: Good lunch to you as well. ;)
04:08	* mtompset	laughs, "organized?!"
04:08	bencahill	cya
04:08		lol
04:10		LBA joined #koha
04:21	mtompset	@wunder EDI
04:21	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.0°C (5:20 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
04:21	Oak	@wunder islamabad
04:21	huginn`	Oak: The current temperature in Islamabad, Pakistan is 30.0°C (9:00 AM PKT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
04:21	Oak	good night bencahill
04:22	mtompset	That sounds much more pleasant than:
04:22		@wunder MNL
04:22	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Manila, Philippines is 32.0°C (12:00 PM PHT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling).
04:25	mtompset	You're not a perl geek, are you, Oak?
04:25	Oak	nope.
04:25		but i want to become one. so i can help Koha :)
04:26		but you are right?
04:26		perl geek i mean
04:26	mtompset	Sucky... I just ran a mass grep, and was wondering what the difference between "use blah::blah;" and "use blah::blah qw();" is.
04:27	chilts	use Something::Something qw(this that); # imports this and that to your namespace
04:27	mtompset	I'm a perl geek novice. :)
04:27	chilts	if qw() is empty, it'll _not_ import anything
04:27	mtompset	then what is the point of the use statement then?
04:27	chilts	(assuming the module exports something by default, which it shouldn't)
04:28		the use statement brings the module in and if it doesn't import anything, you can still call Something::Something::this
04:28		and Something::Something::that
04:28		so either you import it with qw(this) or call it using Something::Something::this
04:28	mtompset	but you can't this and that directly, unless it was qw(this that)?
04:28	chilts	same thing
04:28		correct
04:28		some people like importing things into their own namespace, others don't - your judgement
04:29	mtompset	Shouldn't this be something that is more consistent in Koha?
04:29	chilts	can't comment on that I'm afraid, don't know the source enough - but I know enough Perl to answer your previous question :)
04:30	Oak	chilts++
04:30	mtompset	http://mibpaste.com/KGxOOR
04:30		There is also a use YAML::Syck;
04:31		Does qw(f1 f2) reduce the amount of memory used?
04:31	Oak	mtompset, you can also use this if you like: http://paste.koha-community.org/
04:31		okay you guys discuss stuff, me go work on fixing my laptop.
04:31	mtompset	I learned about paste.koha last night, but I just want quick and dirty.
04:32		So in terms of memory use, does Use blah::blah; use more memory than use blah::blah qw (f1 f2);?
04:38	chilts	I don't think it would make much difference and I personally wouldn't worry about it
04:39		better to worry about how the code looks and feels than a few bytes of memory
04:39		in fact, if anything the qw(f1 f2) would probably use more, but honestly, don't worry about it
04:44	mtompset	Hmm...
04:44		is there a constant library?
04:44		use constant;
04:49		zioha joined #koha
04:49		zioha_away joined #koha
05:09	mtompset	So, are any #kohacon12 folks really idling here?
05:12		@wunder EDI
05:12	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.1°C (6:12 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
05:17	jenkins_koha	Starting build #40 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: FIXED)
05:22	mtompset	hello, jenkins_koha
05:27		cait joined #koha
05:46		paul_p joined #koha
05:59	mtompset	@wunder EDI
05:59	huginn`	mtompset: The current temperature in Edinburgh, United Kingdom is 11.4°C (6:59 AM BST on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Steady).
06:06	cait	quite grey outside this morning
06:06		no sun waking me up
06:07	jenkins_koha	Project Koha_3.8.x build #40: SUCCESS in 50 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.8.x/40/
06:07		* colin.campbell: Bug 3638 Self Check Should Capture Hold Items
06:07		* colin.campbell: Bug 3638 : Captured Holds may need to generate a transfer
06:07	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3638 normal, P2, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , Status of hold not changed when item checked in via SIP2 Interface
06:07	jenkins_koha	Starting build #41 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
06:11	mtompset	good morning, Cait.
06:12		I suppose you aren't any of:     Galen Charlton     Thomas Dukleth     Nicole Engard     Chris Cormack     Paul Poulain     Magnus Enger
06:13		I was hoping one of them might be able to get me wiki access. :)
06:13	rangi	maybe, what's your username?
06:13	mtompset	mtompset
06:13	wahanui	you are doing this with 3.6.3, which is NOT current.
06:13		hdl joined #koha
06:13	mtompset	wahanui forget mtompset
06:13	wahanui	mtompset: I forgot mtompset
06:15	rangi	nope i cant, you need nengard, thd, or gmcharlt for that
06:16	mtompset	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ministration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:16		Says your six names.
06:16		nengard is not listed in the top list of two.
06:17		So, I guess it's thd or gmcharlt
06:17		unless the documentation is out of date. ;)
06:17	rangi	http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Users&group=sysop
06:18		you need a bureaucrat, not just an adminstrator, i can block, delete pages etc, i cant elevate privileges, only a bureaucrat can do that
06:18	mtompset	Ah... so the documentation needs tweaking.
06:19		http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ministration#wiki.koha-community.org
06:19		The above link should have Nicole's name as person three in the first list.
06:19	rangi	no
06:19		thats shell access
06:19	mtompset	perhaps even adding a see also link to the page you pointed me at would be useful.
06:20	rangi	thats quite different
06:20	mtompset	Ah....
06:20	rangi	ie, those 2 can ssh into the box
06:20		gmcharlt: about?
06:20	mtompset	but bureaucrats will use the same web UI that you are trying to use?
06:20	* mtj	waves to chris o
06:21	mtj	(ive been tramping in sth-island for last week :) )
06:21	* mtompset	has yet to see gmcharlt to be active here.
06:21	rangi	heya mtj
06:22	mtompset	well, thanks for the attempt, Chris.
06:23		I think I saw thd once in the last couple days.
06:29		sophie_m joined #koha
06:30	rangi	hi sophie_m
06:30		ready for day 2?
06:30	sophie_m	hi rangi
06:31		almost, I haven't got breakfast yet
06:31	mtompset	Hello, sophie_m. :)
06:31	sophie_m	hi mtompset (what is your real name ?)
06:32	mtompset	Mark Tompsett
06:32	sophie_m	ok :-)
06:32	mtompset	yes, my user id is chopped.
06:32		intentionally a reference to when userids could only be 8 characters. :)
06:32		hdl joined #koha
06:32	mtompset	I'm not at #kohacon12. :(
06:33	sophie_m	where are you from mtompset ?
06:34	mtompset	I'm a Canadian in the Philippines.
06:34		Yourself?
06:34	sophie_m	france
06:35	mtompset	Oh right... I remember now... I had to move two test files while installing Koha.
06:36	paul_p	sophie_m = si tu veux venir petit-déjeuner, tu es la bienvenue ;-)
06:36	mtompset	mv Koha_template_plugin_KohaDates.t db_dependent/
06:37		reiveune joined #koha
06:37	mtompset	mv Reports.t db_dependent/
06:37	reiveune	hello
06:37	wahanui	bonjour, reiveune
06:37	sophie_m	j'arrive paul_p ;-)
06:37	rangi	what version mtompset ?
06:37	mtompset	3.6.3
06:37		I don't know if it is still in 3.6.5
06:37	rangi	ahh i think fixed already
06:38	* paul_p	think too
06:38	mtompset	I think it was fixed in 3.6.4
06:38	rangi	yep
06:38		i checked, fixed in master, 3.8.x and 3.6.x branches
06:40	mtompset	I'm installing 3.6.3, so transposing data, etc. will be much easier... the goal is OS version update. :)
06:40		koha version update is the NEXT step.
06:42	mtj	bbiab
06:44		cait left #koha
06:53	mtompset	A bit is obviously more than 10 minutes. ;)
06:55		mbalmer joined #koha
06:56	jenkins_koha	Project Koha_3.8.x build #41: SUCCESS in 48 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.8.x/41/
06:56		* oleonard: Bug 8161 - Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56		* colin.campbell: Bug 8176 [SIGNED-OFF] Assign an intial value to $sqlwhere
06:56	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8161 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , Cataloging home page should be accessible to users with permission to edit catalog or edit items
06:56		04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8176 normal, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Stable , $sqlwhere is undefined in C4::Serials in GetSubscriptions
06:57	mtompset	Sweet! That's my bug. :)
06:59		gaetan_B joined #koha
06:59	gaetan_B	hello :)
06:59	mtompset	Hello, gaetan_B.
07:00		Are you at @kohacon12, gaetan_B?
07:01		^@^#^
07:02	gaetan_B	mtompset: am not ;)
07:02	mtompset	Neither am I.
07:03		What country are you in currently? Seeing as it is 3AM EST, so I'm guessing not North or South America. :)
07:11		julian_m joined #koha
07:31		stuartyeates joined #koha
07:32	slef	stuartyeates: why aren't you here? could do with more star turns ;)
07:32		the ones who are here are good... but some are pulling out :/
07:33		biab, walking to teviot
07:34	mtompset	pulling out?
07:35		thd-away`: are you really away?
07:37	bag	evening
07:38	mtompset	afternoon. ;)
07:39		-- that's why I stick with 'good day'. As a 24 hour period, day is always correct. ;)
07:43		jransom joined #koha
07:44	jransom	Liz :)
07:44		Millie loves her shoelaces - thank you so much or sending them
07:46	mtompset	Hello, jransom.
07:49	bag	hey jransom
07:50	jransom	heya all
07:57	mtompset	It would seem that the mibbit irc client doesn't notify when someone connects.
07:57		unless bag = Liz.
07:59	jransom	nope - thats Brendan Gallagher from Bywater
08:01	mtompset	Well, if someone sees nengard, gmcharlt, or thd_away`, please let me know.
08:01		oops... thd-away`
08:02		I'm hoping to get wiki access to contribute documentation.
08:03		rangi said I need a bureaucrat level person to do it. :(
08:03		http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Users&group=sysop
08:06	matts	hi !
08:07	mtompset	Hello, matts.
08:08		nengard joined #koha
08:09	clrh	hello
08:10	mtompset	Hello, clrh
08:10		I find it funny that the message says if it doesn't redirect you in 5 seconds...
08:11		but the redirect command is 10 seconds.
08:11		sophie_m joined #koha
08:14		talljoy joined #koha
08:16		alex_a joined #koha
08:16	alex_a	bonjour
08:16	wahanui	what's up, alex_a
08:17	mtompset	hello, alex_a
08:18	alex_a	hello mtompset
08:18	mtompset	okay, here goes my rusty french... comme ca va? (sorry, don't know how to type a cedilla)
08:20	clrh	mtompset: très bien et toi :)
08:20	mtompset	comme si comme ca... So so... :)
08:20	clrh	:)
08:20	alex_a	mtompset: good :)
08:21		mtompset: ca va très bien merci !
08:21		paul_p joined #koha
08:21	mtompset	Are you at #kohacon12?
08:24	alex_a	mtompset: yep
08:24		mtompset: and you ?
08:24		asaurat joined #koha
08:25		francharb joined #koha
08:25	mtompset	Nope.
08:25		:(
08:27	francharb	good morning #koha
08:30		Viktor joined #koha
08:34	mtompset	greetings, francharb.
08:34	jransom	Francois - how are you?
08:35	francharb	hey jransom I'm good! you?
08:35		hi mtompset
08:36		drojf joined #koha
08:37	mtompset	@tell later mtompset hello
08:37	huginn`	mtompset: Error: I haven't seen later, I'll let you do the telling.
08:37	mtompset	@tell mtompset hello later
08:38	francharb	@later tell mtompset hi!
08:38	huginn`	francharb: The operation succeeded.
08:38	francharb	;)
08:38	matts	mtompset,, it's @later tell :)
08:40	mtompset	Ah... thanks...
08:40	francharb	time to listen to the first presentation!
08:41	mtompset	@later tell nengard I was wondering if you, or someone else might be able to help get me registered with the wiki. My userid is mtompset, as I am using here on the channel. Thank you in advance! :)
08:41	huginn`	mtompset: The operation succeeded.
08:41	nengard	mtompset unfortunatly I can't help - I know that emails aren't going out but I'm on the one who manages the wiki ....
08:42	mtompset	Oh? But you have bureaucrat access, supposedly.
08:42		Is this really a thd or gmcharlt problem?
08:44	nengard	I have rights to delete pages, but nothing related to users - so it's something for someone with access to the admin section of the wiki - whatever controls the sending of confirmation emails
08:44		I think it's gmcharlt
08:45	mtompset	But you are listed as a bureaucrat... don't you have such access?
08:46		So this is a SSH access issue.
08:46	slef	eek why is my laptop messin up?
08:46	mbalmer	off to kohacon12, cul
08:47	slef	can you not auth accounts?
08:48		only gmc and thd?
08:49		bbl
08:53	francharb	cul?
08:54		oh, see you later I guess...
08:54		back to the presentation
08:54		I need to focus
08:54	mtompset	Focus. :)
08:55		eythian joined #koha
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09:02	rangi	hey david
09:03	david	morning
09:07		irmaB joined #koha
09:15		kylemhall joined #koha
09:27	mtompset	DOH! Belated hello, david.
09:33		cait joined #koha
09:33	* cait	waves
09:43	dpavlin	Did anybody saw problems with extended partron attributes lately?
09:44		members/memberentry.pl?op=add seems to list ALL values available in database as opposed to providing empty form to enter value.
09:44	rangi	hmm in master?
09:45	dpavlin	yap
09:45		and on our production which was updated before comming here :-(
09:45		but, it's one of changes from last two weeks because our last update worked ok.
09:45		talljoy joined #koha
09:45	rangi	i hadnt noticed but will try to look
09:45		hm you run master not 3.8.x ?
09:46	dpavlin	yap. I'm testing plack on our librarians ;-)
09:46	rangi	ahh fair enough :)
09:46		git bisect will help you find it
09:46	dpavlin	but it's not plack related since it doesn't work in cgi mode anyway.
09:46	rangi	yep
09:47		dpavlin: have you used bisect before?
09:48	dpavlin	once or twice before, but I will find my way around it ;-)
09:48	cait	it's fun :)
09:49	rangi	http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ug.cgi?id=7975#c2
09:49	huginn`	04Bug 7975: blocker, P1 - high, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, can't use patron import
09:49	rangi	a bit of a tutorial
09:52		mrenvoize joined #koha
09:53	cait	hi mrenvoize :)
09:54	dpavlin	Bug 5742 is to blame, commmit a6c6946dfc89b523988fc9478a94040d81d287a8 -- it changes C4/Members/Attributes.pm in such way that it hungles WHERE without borrower number.
09:54	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , batch edit patrons
09:54	dpavlin	I must admin, I read through the code instead of using git bisect, but revert does help ;-)
09:55		s/admin/admit/
09:55	cait	dpavlin: ouch
09:56	rangi	phew not in 3.8.x
09:57	mrenvoize	Hi cait, and all..
09:57	rangi	hi mrenvoize :)
09:59	mtompset	Well, if anyone sees gmcharlt or thd, could you ask them about wiki access for me? :)
09:59		I am taking off.
09:59	rangi	will do
10:00	mtompset	Oh, and I think I'd like to chat more with you dpavlin regarding your PHP patchwork for SAML 2.0 authentication later.
10:00		Viktor joined #koha
10:00	mtompset	Bye, #koha folks.
10:04		Oak joined #koha
10:05	Oak	Ahoy me hearties in a land far far away
10:09		davidnind joined #koha
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10:34		david joined #koha
10:45	david	i have 60 Perl pre-requisites missing when installing Koha for the first time.  Is that norma? :)
10:45	rangi	are you using the packages? and yep thats about right
10:46	cait	hi Oak :)
10:46	rangi	david: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
10:46		that's how i install
10:46	david	rangi: installing from git files with 'sudo perl Makefile.PL'
10:47		right, this'll be the first perl based environment i've put on this laptop so maybe not so surprising :)
10:47	rangi	ah yep, that works too, the nice thing with the koha-common package is it will pull in all the dependencies for you
10:47	david	right, i'll try that then
10:48	rangi	then you can do the perl Makefile.PL and you should be all good
10:49	medmondson	: )
10:49	eythian	soon there will be a package that lets you just pull in the perl deps
10:49	rangi	yep
10:51	medmondson	can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I am on hold about to pay customs charges for the bags. : )  groovy hold muzak. tumdee dum.
10:52		talljoy joined #koha
10:54	medmondson	pls? :)
10:55	nengard	slef around?
10:56		or anyone - what time is the singer tonight? and is it in this room?
10:57	medmondson	singer is 7.00 for 7.30
10:57	cait	I don't know - perhaps slef can say something about it between sessions?
10:58	medmondson	it is in the same room
10:58	cait	thx medmondson
10:58	medmondson	singer details: Norrie 'Tago' MacIver
10:58		if you want to google him.
11:00	rangi	i think this discussion needs to adjourn to lunchtime
11:02	medmondson	ACk
11:02		singer is 7.30 for 8.00
11:05		please can someone in Teviot tell Lee that I have located bags.  : )
11:06	rangi	i would but im about 8 rows away from her
11:06		i will at the break
11:06	medmondson	ty rangi
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11:56		samuel joined #koha
11:56	schuster	anyone with apache knowledge here? I'm having some trouble with virtual hosts
11:56	samuel	hi everybody
11:57	jcamins_away	schuster: I have a little bit of Apache knowledge.
11:57		mtompset joined #koha
11:58		mtompset joined #koha
11:59	schuster	I'm looking at koha-httpd.conf - when I restart apache I am getting NameVirtualHost *:80 has no VirtualHosts
12:00		When I look at the configuration file I can't tell what I have done wrong.  The server is up and running, but not all of my virtual hosts are accessible yet.
12:00	* mtompset	looks around. "Is anyone else here?"
12:01	* medmondson	waves
12:01	samuel	anyone with ldap knowledge? I'm also having troubles, certainly of mapping, because i've the following error "Unknown column 'flags"
12:01	mtompset	Sorry, I know nothing of LDAP.
12:03	jcamins	schuster: probably the hosts are listening on ipaddress:80
12:04	schuster	jcamins - sorry that means nothing to me.???  so what should I look at?
12:06	mtompset	How are you planning on setting up your koha? the default way with staff client at 8080 and opac at 80?
12:06	schuster	yes
12:07	hdl	schuster: check that your vhost declaration
12:07		has  :
12:07		*:80
12:07	mtompset	just a second... I just did a "fresh" install on ubuntu 12.04... let me look.
12:07	hdl	And not xxx.xxx.Xxx:80
12:07	jcamins	schuster: if you open up the koha-httpd.conf, check that it says <VirtualHost *:80>
12:07	hdl	or any.
12:07	jcamins	Exactly what hdl said.
12:08	schuster	That is working when I do the standard, but I want to add another virtual host for the opac, with a special configuration and it won't take that.
12:08	mtompset	Are any other websites running of this same machine?
12:08	schuster	yes that is set on koha-httpd.conf
12:08		no other websites just koha.
12:08	hdl	samuel: paste your koha-conf (only the part for ldap mapping)  on paste.koha-community.org
12:08	mtompset	Oh, so you want another opac on let's say 1234?
12:09	schuster	catalog.pisd.edu - koha-staff.pisd.edu:8080 - urls work.
12:09	mtompset	that's not the default configuration.
12:09	hdl	schuster: would you mind pasting your koha-httpd.conf ?
12:09	schuster	I'm trying to do 001.catalog.pisd.edu - and it will open basically koha but with a different css
12:09	mtompset	those are different site names.
12:09	schuster	Yep just a minute
12:09	jcamins	schuster: okay, I see.
12:09	hdl	not on irc.
12:10	jcamins	You're going to copy the entire <VirtualHost> stanza for the OPAC.
12:10	hdl	But paste.koha-community;org
12:10		druthb joined #koha
12:10	druthb	o/
12:10	jcamins	\o
12:11	pastebot	"schuster" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "part one of koha-httpd.conf" (189 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/431
12:11	schuster	hey druthb... and all thanks again for helping me out.
12:11	drojf	jwagner: slef asks if you could try phoning in please?
12:12	jwagner	drojf, now? I thought it wasn't for another hour
12:12	drojf	to test things
12:12	druthb	you're welcome, schuster. :)
12:12	drojf	its lunch break
12:12	jwagner	OK, give me a few minutes
12:12	samuel	hdl: ok, i'll do it :-)
12:12	mtompset	anyone here know a nice what to check between, %hash = undef, %hash = (), and %hash('a'=>'q');?
12:12		^what^way^
12:12	hdl	schuster: I would have only NameVirtualHost *
12:12	jcamins	schuster: if you copy from <VirtualHost *:80> to the end of that part, then adjust the ServerName to "001.catalog.pisd.edu", try that.
12:13	hdl	And not NameVirtualHost *:port
12:13		%hash=()
12:13		our undef %hash
12:14		%has('a'=>'q') : no way
12:14		mtompset: http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~abatk[…]/perl/howto/hash/
12:15	jwagner	drojf, calling now
12:15		oleonard joined #koha
12:15	jcamins	Well, that was a pretty incoherent sentence.
12:15		schuster: but the suggestion still stands.
12:16	druthb	mtompset:  The second one can be found with "if (scalar keys %hash == 0) { "
12:17	pastebot	"samuel" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "connection ldap" (33 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/432
12:17	schuster	jcamins - what do you mean by end of that part?  Take out the whole virtualhost?
12:18	jcamins	schuster: I meant, copy <VirtualHost *:80>...</VirtualHost> so that you have a third virtualhost identical to that first one.
12:19		julian_m joined #koha
12:20	oleonard	Hi #koha
12:27		JesseM joined #koha
12:30	mtompset	scalar keys %hash == 0 is also true for %hash = undef;
12:33	druthb	hm..  In the past, I've never cared about the difference.  I darn-near always initialize them as %hash = () on purpose.
12:34	mtompset	Well, okay... here's the reason I am asking.
12:34		if (! defined (%hash) ) {...}
12:35		deprecated
12:35		proper translation?
12:35		I'm assuming it requires knowing the difference between empty keys and undef.
12:37		Sorry, it doesn't really have to do with koha, but I figured perhaps some perl geeks might be intrigued by the question.
12:37		ago43 joined #koha
12:42	hdl	samuel: pm
12:43		kylemhall joined #koha
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13:08	slef	aha we are on
13:09		NateC joined #koha
13:11		libsysguy joined #koha
13:13	slef	hello everybody...
13:13		sekjal joined #koha
13:15	rangi	http://untappd.com/user/ranginui <-- tracking my beer drinking
13:15		LBA joined #koha
13:15	cait	hi slef
13:15	slef	all ok back there?
13:16	rangi	yup
13:16	sekjal	rangi:  nice!
13:17	slef	got to stop drinking coffee now...
13:17		first question
13:17	wahanui	"What are you trying to do?"  "What is the goal?" or "What problem are you experiencing?"
13:20	rangi	im currently drinking an irn bru
13:20		im pretty sure there is the same amount of sugar as there is fluid in it
13:20	slef	anything that bright orange cannot be good
13:20	rangi	heh
13:20		thats a good rule
13:20	slef	sticky too
13:21	medmondson	irn bru++
13:21	cait	slef: i told him, he likes it
13:21	slef	one of their truck got stuck in Somerset
13:21		bbc will have pics but Iam text only here
13:22		he medmondson ... can you call S if you have not spoken with her?
13:22		hi
13:23	medmondson	slef I called S just before she went into the delicery depot
13:23	slef	riiight... so she has your number
13:23		cool I think
13:23	medmondson	rangi I like your beer tracking page.
13:23		slef depends on when i was meant to call her
13:24	rangi	its an android app, like foursquare, but for beer
13:24	medmondson	its great
13:24	slef	she calledme for your number at 2
13:24	medmondson	Deuchars++
13:24	* medmondson	rings S
13:24	slef	rangi I have beer for you...
13:24		not with me today
13:24	rangi	i have wine for you .. also not with me :)
13:25	slef	saturday maybe
13:26		am yellow carding nengard meanly
13:27	rangi	saturday sounds like a good idea
13:28	NateC	Hi Everyone! I hope the conference is going well!
13:28	medmondson	rangi.  I just moved near here: http://www.corneliusbeers.com/  its by far the best in Edinburgh and is the most impressive rare/weird alcohol retailer that I have ever found
13:28	rangi	ohhh
13:28	medmondson	oh yes
13:28	rangi	is it near the uni?
13:28	medmondson	last night I was drinking kriek
13:28		not really
13:29		25/30 minutes walk. short bus
13:29	slef	final tips from nengard
13:29	rangi	NateC: yeah it's going well
13:29		ahh bus, good idea
13:29	medmondson	rangi: http://www.brewdog.com/ these guys rock.
13:30	NateC	I thought you might like to hear a recent quote from one of our newly switched library partners (Ex Voyager Library)
13:30	rangi	maybe we can do a craft beer night one of the evenings
13:30	NateC	I wanted to add this to our press release for them but decided to go with a less colorful one
13:30	* rangi	waits
13:30	NateC	"Working with our old ILS was like licking the anus of a dead squirrel that’s laying bloated in the sunshine in the middle of the road on a hot summer day.  And there was also a negative side.  Koha is a wonderful improvement."
13:31	rangi	hehe
13:31	medmondson	: >
13:31	rangi	thats a shiny endorsement of voyager :)
13:31	cait	ouch
13:32	NateC	heh
13:32	medmondson	very special
13:33		newsflash #####
13:34		conference bags have been located and are not in conference-organisers possesion
13:34		woop woop
13:34		ack
13:34		conference bags have been located and are noW in conference-organisers possesion EVEN
13:34	sekjal	NateC: awesome.  flat out
13:34	NateC	:)
13:34	talljoy	conference bags full of awesome bling?
13:34	NateC	I thought so too
13:34	rangi	w00t!
13:35	medmondson	talljoy: wot bags themselves are not enough, sigh. ; )
13:35	* talljoy	will settle for sparkly or just plain shiny
13:39	drojf	that cornelisbeers.com shop looks quite nice
13:39		corneliusbeers.com even
13:44	mtompset	I blink, and there's conversation!
13:46		mveron joined #koha
13:49	cait	hi mveron :)
13:49		wizzyrea joined #koha
13:49	rangi	hi wizzyrea
13:50	wizzyrea	heya
13:50	cait	hi wizzyrea :)
13:50		my surprise arrived!!!
13:50	wizzyrea	:D
13:50		yep!
13:50	cait	I was really worried by now!
13:50	druthb	wizzzzeeeeeee!
13:50	* druthb	offers hugs.
13:50	cait	I hear the coconut chocolate has melted :(that one was especially for you
13:51	wizzyrea	aww, that's ok :) it's hot here.
13:51	* druthb	will be brining goodies from Germany to NEKLS this morning, once we all get stirring around.
13:51	* jcamins	tries to think of an additional pro to the "traditional" workflow for analytics, so that the slide will be balanced.
13:51		libcoop joined #koha
13:51	slef	ok we are running
13:51	cait	jcamins: :) thx!
13:51	* wizzyrea	will go try to find one just like it at au marché
13:51	rangi	hi libcoop
13:51		francharb joined #koha
13:51	cait	au marche?
13:51	libcoop	hi
13:51	wahanui	bonjour, libcoop
13:51	wizzyrea	our little european market here
13:52	cait	oh :)
13:52	wizzyrea	they sell all kinds of things :)
13:52	cait	hard to find something that is not already sold in US!
13:52		didn't know for example you had haribo (although i should have guessed that)
13:52	bencahill	It's active in here this morning! Is the conference still in action?
13:52	rangi	yep, day 2 today
13:52	wizzyrea	well, it's ever so much more special when it actually comes from the place it was made :D
13:52	bencahill	cool
13:52	slef	oi
13:53	* bencahill	is going to go run now (2 miles) :)
13:53	wizzyrea	slef: I haven't had a chance to look at your link yet
13:53	rangi	oi?
13:53	cait	wizzyrea: hope it's all yummy and you enjoy it :)
13:53	francharb	oï
13:53	rangi	oishi
13:53		i know
13:53	bencahill	oiboiy
13:53	cait	means delicious in japanese?
13:54	asaurat	cait: yeaaah oishiii
13:54	rangi	yep
13:54	cait	oishii dese ne!
13:54		desu
13:54	slef	wizzyrea: I managed to post a new atta... wait no another topic...
13:54	rangi	su mi ma sen
13:54	slef	ignore me
13:54	jcamins	slef: I'm going to be recording my talk today, and uploading it so you can play it tomorrow.
13:54	cait	doumo arigatou gozaimasu?
13:54	wizzyrea	Google was also hitting websites for aggressive anchor text for keywords in backlinks even before Penguin. Post-Penguin, anchor text diversity becomes more critical. < this is what our problem is, I think.
13:55	francharb	slef : does "oi" really mean "hey you"?
13:55	sekjal	meeting time (about Ex Libris' Aleph... must control my disdain)
13:55	francharb	or something like that.
13:55	slef	jcamins: cool. do you want to phone in fo q and a or linphoneor what?
13:55	rangi	komban wa, kore wa chris desu
13:55		SJeffery joined #koha
13:55	francharb	that's what I heard
13:55	bencahill	@wunder 75654
13:55	huginn`	bencahill: The current temperature in RAWS HENDERSON TX US, Minden, Texas is 23.9°C (8:06 AM CDT on June 06, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Falling).
13:55	wizzyrea	1 million+ identical backlinks from a single site = bad.
13:55	cait	rangi: douzu yorushiko
13:56	rangi	my fave is still iceu creamu
13:56	cait	hm actually that looks wrong
13:56		hea pin
13:56		or
13:56		kurisumasu
13:56		sophie_m joined #koha
13:56	slef	francharb: oi is more what do you mean by that
13:56	jcamins	slef: I'd prefer linphone. I'll be at NEKLS during the Q & A, so we'll need to test from there.
13:56	cait	so wh did we start talking japanese?
13:57	slef	is edi not as special as nz?
13:57	jcamins	And, of course, if it doesn't work I can just phone in.
13:57	slef	;(
13:57	rangi	slef: ?
13:58	slef	jcamins: ok we have changedlaptop but = will install linphone and co tonight
13:58	mtompset	Wow, lots of people... just not one of the two people I want here. ;)
13:58	bencahill	heh
13:58		mtompset: Good evening ;)
13:59	mtompset	Hello again, bencahill.
13:59	slef	can someone come get mic2 for questions please?
14:00		ok I go kick mjkaye
14:02		any feedback for jwagner?
14:03		any questions?
14:03		may be as easy here
14:04	mtompset	Seeing as I am not at #kohacon12, no questions. :P
14:04	slef	hehe
14:05		http://ptfs.webex.com/ if you want to watch slides
14:05		but we fell back to phone for sound
14:06		maximep joined #koha
14:09		samuel left #koha
14:09	mtompset	Meeting number?
14:09		JesseM left #koha
14:10	francharb	jwagner, don't have any question for now but your presentation was very interesting!
14:10		thank you
14:10		;)
14:10	jwagner	francharb, thanks -- how was the audio?
14:10	francharb	will your slides available
14:10		on the wiki
14:10	wahanui	i guess on the wiki is more information about the packages
14:10	francharb	jwagner, the sound was ok
14:10		:)
14:11	jwagner	The slides are online now at http://www.koha.org/library/re[…]DoWhenTheySay.pdf -- slef needed access. I assume they'll also go on the wiki for the conference
14:11	francharb	great!
14:11		thank you
14:12	jwagner	I'm going to reboot to get my normal setup back -- will be back online in a couple of minutes
14:12		mgeist joined #koha
14:12		JesseM joined #koha
14:13	SJeffery	Wow, that is a great presentation. I have a meeting with all of our staff on Monday and I will make use of that.
14:13	mtompset	DOH! I can't join, because the meeting is over. :(
14:14	slef	and we mosee pdf link now mtompset
14:14		blurgh
14:14		I am juggling again
14:15	mtompset	Nice PDF presentation!
14:17		jwagner joined #koha
14:18	slef	wb jwagner
14:19	jwagner	thanks -- I shut down a lot of my normal desktop stuff so I wouldn't get interrupted -- needed to reboot to get it all back :-)
14:20	mtompset	I have to bite my tongue when I think of users having a capital silent L. ;)
14:21	slef	mtompset: you do cust support?
14:21	mtompset	not all the time, thankfully. :)
14:21		much less now, which is good. I can focus on my strengths. :)
14:26		mib_wbjkre joined #koha
14:32	bencahill	I ran 2 miles in 18:36 :( ...gotta work on that...
14:32	mle_afk	rangi:  best ale pub http://www.list.co.uk/place/102899-the-cloisters/
14:32	mtompset	18:36... that's better than my 20 minutes.
14:32		Of course, I doubt I could do it in 20 minutes now.
14:34	bencahill	mtompset: How old are you? I'm 18, and going to Basic Training (although not military) in 7 weeks. To get PT Excellence, I need to be faster than 12:54
14:34	rangi	mle_afk: ooh thanks
14:36	mtompset	I'm over double your age. ;)
14:36	bencahill	mtompset: Right, that's what I figured. ;)
14:37	* mtompset	jabs the young one for disrspecting his elders. ;)
14:37	bencahill	:(
14:37	* talljoy	hands poking stick to mtompset.  lol
14:37	* mtompset	laughs, "It's okay."
14:37	bencahill	mtompset: I was just saying that I can expect myself to run faster since I'm younger. :P ;)
14:38	mtompset	bencahill and I were talking bash earlier. We have an understanding. ;)
14:38	bencahill	hhe
14:38		*hehe
14:38	mtompset	On second thought...
14:38	bencahill	My brother once ran an 11:18... o_O
14:38	* mtompset	uses the poking stick excessively on bencahill.
14:38	bencahill	lol
14:38		hey!
14:39	* bencahill	pulls out his gaffer's tape and tapes the stick to the wall
14:39	mtompset	Has anyone seen gmcharlt or thd-away`
14:40		I just emailed off that PDF link to my colleagues on this koha project I'm involved with.
14:40	bencahill	slef: How's the video/storage working out?
14:48	mtompset	Well, I think I'll call it a day.
14:49		Have a good day, bencahill.
14:50	* mle_afk	waves to mtompset
14:50	mtompset	Bye, mle_afk.
14:55		alex_a joined #koha
15:00	jcamins	cait++
15:01	chris_n	jcamins: out delivering fudge?
15:02	mgeist	jcamins had fudge and didnt bring any to nekls yesterday?  Im hurt.
15:02		druthb joined #koha
15:02	jcamins	chris_n: no, we're enjoying cait's chocolate.
15:02	chris_n	cool
15:02	jcamins	:)
15:02	* chris_n	is learning perl xs foo
15:02	jcamins	chris_n: why are you learning XS?
15:03	chris_n	I need to cook up a module to interface some perl scripts with the usps imb c libs
15:03	jcamins	Ah.
15:03	chris_n	imb == intelligent mail barcode
15:04		although the intelligent part is in question
15:04	jcamins	Heh.
15:08		mtompset joined #koha
15:08	mtompset	okay, okay... a weirdness got my attention before getting to bed.
15:08		use lib '/home/chris/git/koha.git';
15:09		in the misc/translator/update.pl program.
15:11	jcamins	mtompset: don't use update.pl.
15:11		It's deprecated.
15:11		Use translate.
15:12	mtompset	I'm not using it... I was just looking for perl use statements, to make sure the package lists were up to date.
15:12	gaetan_B	bye !
15:12	jcamins	mtompset: okay, good.
15:13		mtompset: definitely a bug, though. I'd report it.
15:13		Eventually the script will be removed, I think.
15:13	mtompset	when was it deprecated?
15:14	jcamins	mtompset: not sure, exactly. A while ago.
15:16	mtompset	translate has 2010 in the (c)
15:20	gmcharlt	@quote random
15:20	huginn`	gmcharlt: Quote #197: "<chris_n> half-baked things are asking for trouble" (added by slef at 04:10 PM, April 05, 2012)
15:20		wizzyrea_mib joined #koha
15:20	mle_afk	@help
15:20	huginn`	mle_afk: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
15:20	mle_afk	@help commands
15:20	huginn`	mle_afk: Error: There is no command "commands".
15:20	mle_afk	@help command
15:20	huginn`	mle_afk: (command <network> <command> [<arg> ...]) -- Gives the bot <command> (with its associated <arg>s) on <network>.
15:20	mle_afk	: p
15:21	wizzyrea_mib	mle what are you wanting to do?
15:21	mle_afk	play with the bot
15:21		zioha joined #koha
15:21	mtompset	Ah! I see gmcharlt. :)
15:22		I've been hoping to see you, gmcharlt, so I could confirm my email address which I registered with the Wiki.
15:23		jcamins, what category do you think this deprecated misc/translator/update.pl should be under?
15:23		component, I should say.
15:24	jcamins	mtompset: I think there's translation/i13n?
15:24		shari joined #koha
15:24	shari	hello!
15:24	wizzyrea_mib	heya :)
15:24	* jcamins	welcomes Shari to the #koha IRC channel.
15:24	cait	hi shari :)
15:24	* cait	waves too
15:24	shari	hi! thanks for the box of goodies!
15:24	cait	hope you like it!
15:25	shari	I'm looking forward to digging in.
15:25	cait	so glad the package finally arrived
15:25		I got worried it wouldn't make it in time
15:25	shari	Well, it's a bit early for chocolates, but very soon I'll be indulging, I'm sure.
15:25	mtompset	Hmm... maybe command-line utilities? it says mainly in misc/
15:25	shari	I'll be back to editing, and that makes one hunger for sweets.
15:25		It arrived at the same time we did.
15:25		:-)
15:25	cait	perfect timing then even :)
15:26		so druthb got no chance to eat them all up *hide*
15:26	wizzyrea_mib	rental charges on itemtypes - makes sense but OY hard to find
15:26	shari	lol
15:26		she wouldn't do that!
15:27	cait	chocolate ....
15:27	wizzyrea_mib	nomnomnomnomnom
15:27	cait	:D
15:27	jcamins	mtompset: there's no section for internationalization?
15:27	cait	rangi was refusing the sweets I offered to him... so glad you know what is good
15:28		;)
15:28	shari	I've been well trained with Jared's fudge. I respect the goodies.
15:28	cait	:)
15:28	slef	I'm behind (some of) you!
15:29		</panto>
15:29	mle_office	no your not
15:29		(or oh no youre not)
15:30		I am heading back to Teviot now.
15:30	slef	sorry... I'll go stand outside
15:31	mtompset	There is... but is this really an internationalization problem? or is this a misc utility that needs to be deleted?
15:31		I went with the latter.
15:31		Hopefully it will get noticed.
15:33	* mtompset	is sad...
15:33	mtompset	Still no wiki access.
15:34	cait	mtompset: I am sory, we will try to work something out
15:34	mtompset	I was wondering if someone who does have access could tell me what groups they belong to.
15:34		Because I am part of users and autoconfirmed users.
15:35	cait	yes, I think it's a permission problem
15:35	slef	mtompset: try to update a translation and see if it no longer works?
15:35	cait	but we have to find someone who has permission to give permissions...
15:35		I think
15:35	mtompset	gmcharlt was here briefly.
15:35		I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:35	druthb	shari:  cait:  Yes, she would eat them all up.  Yes, she would.  :P
15:36	cait	mtompset: not usre, I haven't seen him - perhaps an autoated reconnect?
15:36	slef	@later tell gmcharlt mtompset would like to talk to you
15:36	huginn`	slef: The operation succeeded.
15:36	slef	@seen gmcharlt
15:36	huginn`	slef: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 16 minutes and 25 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> @quote random
15:36	druthb	why do you think I put them at the other end of the table?  At least now, I have go *get up* and go get munchies.
15:36	shari	@drruthb: Pixel will protect my share.
15:36	huginn`	shari: downloading the Perl source
15:37	mtompset	@seen mtompset
15:37	huginn`	mtompset: mtompset was last seen in #koha 1 minute and 23 seconds ago: <mtompset> I missed him by 8 minutes.
15:37	mtompset	Well, my timezone is telling me it is bed time.
15:38		Enough installation work for one day.
15:38		0 to installed in 1 day... another day to harden, reconfigure, and import data.
15:39		Good day to you, #koha folk. :)
15:39	wizzyrea_mib	later :)
15:40	mtompset	Be back in 10. ;)
15:48	clrh	bug 6874
15:48	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:49	jcamins	clrh: I've tried it several times, and I just can't get it to work.
15:50	clrh	erf
15:50		I see your comments
15:51		the patches are a litle bit old, did you tested the last rebased patch?
15:51	jcamins	clrh: yes I did.
15:51		Exact same problems.
15:51		mtompset joined #koha
15:52	mtompset	brainwave! his email address was on some bug reports I submitted. :)
15:52	clrh	:/
15:53	mtompset	:/? Did I miss some context?
15:53	jcamins	clrh: yeah, discussing bug 6874.
15:53	mtompset	bug 6874
15:53		where's the bot?
15:54	cait	hm
15:54	jcamins	mtompset: he's sulking because we just said bug 6874 so many times.
15:54	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
15:54	cait	wahanui botsnack luxemburgerli
15:54	wahanui	:)
15:56	mtompset	*smirk* the template extensions aren't bad... someone didn't go reading the code for the substitution in C4::Templates. :)
15:56	* mtompset	made the same initial mistake too.
15:56		alex_a left #koha
15:58		cait left #koha
15:58	mtompset	That is one ugly bug description.
15:58		have fun discussing it.
16:00		sophie_m left #koha
16:01		Ccorrales joined #koha
16:02		asaurat left #koha
16:07		melia joined #koha
16:11	wizzyrea_mib	i'm working poor jcamins hard today
16:12		JesseM joined #koha
16:23	SJeffery	lol so am I
16:25	* jcamins	works frantically.
16:37	paul_p	everybody at the pub, except me who is trying to test but 7818 to push it...
16:37		(and except zeno, that is sitted near me)
16:38		in 2 hours, we will have a scottish singer
16:38	jcamins	Bug 7818
16:38	wahanui	Bug 7818 is waiting for my QA. Should be pretty painless, as it works a charm.
16:38	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7818 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Passed QA , support DOM mode for Zebra indexing of bibliographic records
16:38	jcamins	Ah.
16:38		paul_p++
16:42	paul_p	OK, I could make it work. The thing now is to make it reproductible :D (and write how I made)
16:42		Just for fun, I got many zebra errors, the funniest one being :
16:42		18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:42		(to say everything : Entity: line 84: parser error : Extra content at the end of the document
16:42		<record
16:42		^
16:42		18:23:08-06/06 zebraidx(11130) [warn] extract error: generic
16:42		)
16:43		seems it happens when your records are somehow invalid
16:43		(in biblioitems page)
16:43		worked well with grs1
16:46	jcamins	paul_p: GRS-1 just failed to handle those records, I think.
16:46		(and any records after it)
16:46	paul_p	jcamins not sure that's it. dom indexing work without -x flag, fail with -x. it's not related to my invalid record as I thought
16:48	* druthb	blames jcamins
16:48	jcamins	paul_p: in that case, you don't have an invalid record, just an invalid marcxml blob.
16:49		paul_p: how did you do that?
16:49		:)
16:55	wizzyrea_mib	jcamins++
16:56		popularity is officially fixed - someone QA it!
16:56		bug 6557
16:56	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
16:56	jcamins	sekjal: funness awaits!
17:00	SJeffery	Does anyone have any thoughts on removing the 505/520 from the either the main display or the description tab of the opac so that it only displays once?
17:03	wizzyrea_mib	oh hey, mgeist was here :)
17:03	* wizzyrea_mib	waves to her fellow kansan
17:03	mgeist	Still here.  It set me away.  I guess because im not talking?
17:04	SJeffery	No wave for me?
17:04	jcamins	SJeffery: yeah, I've thought about that... a lot, actually.
17:06		I think the conclusion I reached was that probably we need to remove the fields from the Descriptions tab.
17:06		Unfortunately, that's non-trivial.
17:07	wizzyrea_mib	... i didn't know you were a fellow kansan :P
17:08		did I?
17:08		sometime's I'm like a goldfish -- ooh, a bubbler! ooh, a bubbler!
17:09	druthb	hi, mgeist!
17:09	* druthb	waves at SJeffery
17:09	SJeffery	jcamins: IMO it needs to be done. We would probably do that in combination of bug 6617, which should make a big difference.
17:09	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6617 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , table of contents not printing right if entered right
17:10	SJeffery	(I spent 5 years in KS and sitll think of it has home)
17:10	wizzyrea_mib	ohhhhhh
17:10	* wizzyrea_mib	has lived here for... a long time.
17:11	SJeffery	In fact, I was out there last October...I love the Linda Hall library
17:11		There is one we need to recruit to Koha!
17:11	wizzyrea_mib	ah yea good pt
17:11	jcamins	SJeffery: we really need the ability to hide any arbitrary 5xx fields from the Description tab.
17:11		Oh, the Linda Hall science library is in KS? I thought it was in Chicago.
17:11	* jcamins	knows the director of special collections.
17:12	SJeffery	no, Kansas City (I cant remember which side of the border it is on)
17:12	jcamins	Hm. MO, apparently.
17:12	SJeffery	Ideally showing/hiding fields in the opac/serps would be a set of simple configuration changes.
17:13	* mgeist	grew up in KS, moved to DC for about 10 years, then moved back to KS
17:14	wizzyrea_mib	i think it's technically in MO
17:14	SJeffery	*checks the LHL job openings* dangit!
17:14	jcamins	SJeffery: agreed. Unfortunately, it's a bit non-trivial to do it.
17:14		(to make it like that)
17:15	SJeffery	k. Well fwiw we will be taking care of 6617 one way or another.
17:16	jcamins	SJeffery: don't misunderstand me... I know *how* to do it. This isn't a mystery. It's just big enough a project that it will require some serious work.
17:16	wizzyrea_mib	plus, $$
17:17	jcamins	wizzyrea_mib: well, yeah, that's what 'serious work' means.
17:17	wizzyrea_mib	:) I'm just being *explicit*
17:17	SJeffery	Yeah. Since it involves such a fundamental change it is probably something we would want to pull in other libraries for
17:17	wizzyrea_mib	if someone did a quote, you could like, kickstarter it or something.
17:17	jcamins	wizzyrea_mib: good idea!
17:18	SJeffery	I just don't want us to end up being the only ones funding every major change:D
17:18	wizzyrea_mib	who is "us"
17:18	* wizzyrea_mib	is forgetful, remember
17:18	wizzyrea_mib	lotta strands in old duder's head.
17:19	SJeffery	The corporate library that I work for:D
17:19	* wizzyrea_mib	notes SJeffery's skillful skirting of the question
17:20	SJeffery	Nah, I just don't like the name showing up in search results, and since the chan is logged...
17:20	wizzyrea_mib	ah.
17:20	jcamins	Lunch time!
17:23	mgeist	Ooh good idea
17:24	bencahill	Yeah, me too.
17:24	SJeffery	All these east coast people!
17:24		trea joined #koha
17:24	bencahill_lunch	SJeffery: Texas!
17:24	paul_p	lunch time ? what a strange idea ? it's dinner time !!!
17:27	mgeist_lunch	Its okay, you can have eggos for either meal.
17:28	* bencahill_lunch	is cooking some hotdogs on an electric skillet
17:29		druthb1 joined #koha
17:32	bencahill_lunch	I haven't done this before; let's hope I don't burn them...
17:41		zioha joined #koha
17:41		druthb joined #koha
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18:05		sophie_m joined #koha
18:25		mbalmer joined #koha
18:25	mbalmer	anybody speaks gaelic and can translate?
18:30		YoungPublicLibrarian joined #koha
18:32	YoungPublicLibrarian	Hello everyone, I am in need of assistance with writing a Fines and Fees report for my library. I need help writing some code into it that will designate the patron's homebranch or allow us to select the homebranch at the beginning of the report.
18:38		Anyone, any advice?
18:39	sekjal	YoungPublicLibrarian:  have you used the Runtime Parameters in SQL reports?
18:40		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjz_o3-SRQU
18:50	YoungPublicLibrarian	Thank you sekjal! That was perfect!
18:50	sekjal	YoungPublicLibrarian:  glad to help :)
18:51		there are lots of other Koha videos, too, most of them produced by our documentation manager Nicole Engard (nengard)
18:51		she takes requests
18:52		wizzyrea_mib joined #koha
18:52	YoungPublicLibrarian	Yes, I've watched quite a few of them. I just didn't realize Runteime Parameters in SQL was what I was looking for... :/
18:52	sekjal	ah
18:52		yes, it's not the most intuitive name for the function, I'll give you that
18:59	mgeist	Gotta boot to my XP partition, so I will be back later.
19:03	sekjal	random idea:  what if, instead of storing the binary MARC record in biblioitems.marc, we stored the MARC::Record object?
19:04	jcamins	sekjal: intriguing.
19:04	sekjal	then we could get that data structure without having to invoke MARC::Record every time to serialize and deserialize from the binary or xml
19:05	jcamins	sekjal: I like this idea.
19:06	sekjal	we'd still have to pass MARCXML for indexing
19:07		well, at least for XML-based indexers
19:08		but doing that every X seconds is less intense that reading/writing it for every single biblio-modifying transaction
19:08	jcamins	We still have to deserialize the XML into a MARC::Record for indexing.
19:10	sekjal	... yeah, I think this might be a good thing.  store the data in the format it's most often used
19:10		save on processing
19:10	jcamins	At no point is MARCXML used directly.
19:10		Nor the binary MARC.
19:11	sekjal	hmmm, how susceptible to corruption would the stored MARC::Record object be/
19:11	jcamins	sekjal: not very.
19:12		Serialize it with Data::Dumper.
19:13	sekjal	... I'm liking this.  let's us abstract the data structure from the presentation a little bit more
19:13	jcamins	sekjal: at least, no worse than with MARCXML.
19:13	sekjal	jcamins: so long as it's not relatively worse, it's all okay by me
19:13	jcamins	I'm not sure that using a MARC::Record object abstracts significantly, but it does seem like an improvement anyway.
19:15	sekjal	would save on processing, and we could access the object directly with SQL, instead of having to use GetMarcBiblio or the like
19:17	jcamins	We'd also need the marcxml for reporting.
19:19	sekjal	hmm, yes, folks are depending on that as a workaround to get non-mapped MARC fields
19:21	magnuse	MARC must die!
19:23		wizzyrea_mibbit left #koha
19:23	* druthb	waves to magnuse.
19:25	* magnuse	waves to druthb
19:25	jcamins	magnuse: congratulations!
19:25	magnuse	jcamins: thanks!
19:29		roybivovac joined #koha
19:30	sekjal	magnuse:  yes, congratulations indeed!
19:30	magnuse	sekjal: thanks! ;-)
19:31	druthb	congrats, magnuse!  jcamins just showed me the picture.
19:31	magnuse	druthb: thanks!
19:31	jcamins	sekjal: adding a follow-up for 6557.
19:32	sekjal	awww!
19:33	magnuse	;-)
19:34	jcamins	sekjal: passing in $record, $frameworkcode, and $totalissues (costing logical routine separation) for a performance gain seems to be going the wrong way in terms of code cleanup.
19:34		It means we're duplicating code everywhere that we want to update the totalissues.
19:35		That said, if you feel strongly, I don't care enough about code organization/duplication to argue any more than that. ;)
19:35	trea	manguse that's a handsome fellow!
19:36	magnuse	thanks trea ;-)
19:36	sekjal	jcamins:  looking at 6557 was what prompted me to think of finding some kind of faster way to store and share the MARC
19:36	jcamins	sekjal: agreed that it'd be nice to have a faster way.
19:36	sekjal	efficiency is really important for anything circ related
19:36	jcamins	But computers will keep on getting faster.
19:36	magnuse	fastest of all: get rid of it! ;-)
19:37		(nah, guess i don't really mean that, for now...)
19:37	jcamins	That's why I recommend against enabling instant popularity update.
19:37		The expensive thing is always going to be writing the MARC record.
19:42	mtj	morning #koha
19:43	wizzyrea_mib	fwiw, I don't think that instant popularity calculation is even worth it - I don't see the point of updating that stuff more than once a day - unless you have an extremely, extremely small or particularly active catalog, the popularity of items isn't probably going to change all that much.
19:44	* druthb	chucks handfuls of Skittles at mtj.
19:44	wizzyrea_mib	and certainly, imo, knowing what is popular today vs. what was popular 5 minutes ago... I don't see the point
19:45	* magnuse	doesn't know the backstory, but thinks what wizzyrea_mib says sounds reasonable
19:46	sekjal	jcamins: you mention in the bug report that with DOM, the addition of item circ info could be handled at indexing time
19:46		is that right?
19:46	jcamins	sekjal: yes, that's a follow-up bug.
19:46		Somewhere.
19:47		sekjal: but I want to get this in first, because it might change the way the DOM indexing bit needs to be handled.
19:47		Bug 8115.
19:47	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8115 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , DOM indexing configuration should compute totalissues from items.issues
19:48	sekjal	I would think that the total number of holds should also factor into a material's "popularity"
19:48		but that's complicating the algorithm
19:48		out of scope
19:48	jcamins	sekjal: yes, and "totalissues" is specifically about the number of times a bib had an item circulated.
19:49		libsysguy left #koha
19:49	jcamins	sekjal: there are sneaky ways to do better, though.
19:49	* jcamins	is a sneaky kind of guy.
19:49	wizzyrea_mib	yea, out of scope, definitely should be an improvement though
19:50	mtj	wizzyrea: hiya - did you get my /msg before?
19:51	wizzyrea_mib	uh... just got it
19:51		ok answered you
19:53	mtj	woah, anyone seen the cat-copter yet?
19:54	sekjal	mtj:  yes, last night
19:54	mtj	http://motherboard.vice.com/20[…]l-flying-death--2
19:56	sekjal	jcamins:  your patch for 6557 really is awesome
19:57		well documented, clean in it's implementation (nearly surgical)
19:57	magnuse	bug 6557
19:57	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6557 normal, P3, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , biblioitems.totalissues unused
19:57	sekjal	and what you're saying about code atomicity and cleanliness is very valid
19:58		coming up with a more efficient means of getting biblio data may just be a project of it's own
20:01	wizzyrea_mib	pop u larity :)
20:08		eythian_ joined #koha
20:08	chris_n	mtj: don't you have work to do? ;-)
20:10	bencahill_lunch	magnuse: I haven't been on in a while, but congrats! :)
20:10		kathryn joined #koha
20:15	jcamins	sekjal: I'm glad you like it.
20:15		:)
20:15		shari joined #koha
20:16	* jcamins	is just about to sign off on a patch by shari. :)
20:16	shari	yay!
20:17		patches!
20:17	wahanui	patches are on the bug
20:21	trea	confusing?
20:21	wahanui	confusing is "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
20:21		trea left #koha
20:22		eythian joined #koha
20:23	kathryn	hi everyone especially rangi and eythian :)
20:24	* kathryn	sits by herself and eats the chocolates on eythian's desk
20:25	magnuse	bencahill: thanks!
20:26	mtj	kathryn, i bet he has more stashed in his top-draw
20:26	kathryn	mtj: good tip!
20:27		and hi mtj!
20:27	mtj	hi hi yourself :)
20:36	magnuse	shari++
20:37	shari	thanks for the karma!
20:39	magnuse	shari: keep the patches coming and there will be more :-)
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20:42	atmanning	I am frustrated with koha after bringing in MARC records nothing is showing up in my catalog - what is wrong?  Using 3.8 that came with the live DVD iso
20:43	jcamins	faq?
20:43	wahanui	faq is found at http://koha-community.org/documentation/faq/
20:43	atmanning	I can't even seem to be able to manually update my catalog - do I have to run this zebra script every time?  it takes about 1/2 hour!
20:43	jcamins	atmanning: take a look at the FAQ I just linked to.
20:43		Where did you get a LiveDVD, BTW?
20:44	shari	I'll be working on more patches later, I think.
20:44		Brain needs a rest now. I'm new at this.
20:45		Perhaps this summer will be a koha bootcamp for me.
20:45		I do have an in-house tutor.
20:45	magnuse	yay!
20:45		koha_bootcamp++
20:45		shari: and you have #koha, full of wonderful people
20:45	wizzyrea_mib	^^
20:46	shari	Indeed!
20:46	wizzyrea_mib	magnuse - the fam home yet?
20:46	magnuse	wizzyrea_mib: nope, things take a little time
20:46		perhaps on friday?
20:46	wizzyrea_mib	*nod* i know how that goes :)
20:46	magnuse	:-)
20:46	atmanning	I found the koha 3.8 live DVD found on sourceforge: sourceforge.net/projects/koha​livedvd-mk/?source=directory
20:48		I had that faq and did run that script (before manually attempting to change the item count on one book and changed location after adding authorized values for LOC) - this is all very confusing grrr...
20:48	jcamins	Huh.
20:48		I have absolutely no idea who that is.
20:49	atmanning	the faq referred to the script misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r -v     which I have run a few times
20:50	sekjal	atmanning:  are there any error lines output by the script?
20:50	atmanning	I just jumped in trying to get help with a new Koha install - looking for help from wise people here..
20:50	wizzyrea_mib	a good plan :)
20:50		though I've not ever looked at that dvd before.
20:50	jcamins	atmanning: unfortunately, none of us have ever heard of this livecd, so chances are good we won't be able to help much.
20:51	atmanning	you want me to paste the output here?  it's 1/2 a screen of messages... no apparent errors
20:51	wizzyrea_mib	you can use paste.koha-community.org
20:51	jcamins	atmanning: use paste.koha-community.org
20:51	wizzyrea_mib	:)
20:52	sekjal	atmanning:  yes, the 1/2 screen of messages are the first place to look: will give us some clues as to what's working and what (if anything) is not
20:53	atmanning	I'm happy to use something else if I well get better performance long term..    I first tried an install of community version on Ubuntu 12.04 - tons of missing dependencies when running  perl Makefile.PL, backed down to Ubuntu 10.04 - same problems, so I gave up and tried the live DVD 3.2 - big MARC import bug-  now 3.8 live DVD - MARC imports worked ...
20:53	jcamins	atmanning: you should always read through the installation instructions.
20:53		They tell you how to install the dependencies.
20:54		YoungPublicLibrarian joined #koha
20:54	atmanning	did that - I'm now an expert at cpan, but it couldn't resolve them all
20:54	* druthb	waves at YoungPublicLibrarian.
20:54	jcamins	atmanning: you wouldn't have needed CPAN.
20:54	YoungPublicLibrarian	Hello druthb!
20:54	jcamins	atmanning: pretty much everything is packaged.
20:55		koha on ubuntu?
20:55		ubuntu?
20:55	magnuse	is there a preferred way to delete things in the staff client? js-confirmation dialog v.s. an extra html confirmation page v.s. just delete once "delete" is clicked?
20:55	jcamins	Koha on Ubuntu is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ki/Koha_on_Ubuntu
20:56	wizzyrea_mib	it's not uniform, magnuse
20:56		afaik
20:56	atmanning	hmm.... the install instructions said cpan for missing dependencies...   I'm happy to try something better supported...  there seem to be several versions floating around.  What is the recommended platform?   CentOS?
20:56	wizzyrea_mib	most people use debian.
20:56	jcamins	Debian!
20:57		Or Ubuntu.
20:57	druthb	magnuse: you could create a button that says, "delete all these", that actually truncates the table, not just the ones showing on the screen.  that's a good idea.  Suuuuure.
20:57	wizzyrea_mib	http://koha-community.org/download-koha/
20:57	jcamins	CentOS is only recommended if you feel that your anticipated lifespan is too long.
20:57	wizzyrea_mib	@quote get 123
20:57	huginn`	wizzyrea_mib: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
20:57	wizzyrea_mib	no, uh....
20:57		@quote get 23
20:57	huginn`	wizzyrea_mib: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
20:58	druthb	@quote search bacon
20:58	huginn`	druthb: 2 found: #16: "< wizzyrea> i mean, the point of american bacon..." and #17: "<wizzyrea> holy flaming bacon batman!"
20:58	atmanning	I thought Ubuntu *is* Debian variation - am I wrong?
20:58	YoungPublicLibrarian	Okay, I have a report question if someone has time...
20:58	jcamins	atmanning: no, you are correct. :)
20:58	sekjal	atmanning: you are correct
20:58	wizzyrea_mib	it is a debian variant, but not debian :)
20:58	druthb	"Debian variation" != "Debian."
20:58	wizzyrea_mib	YoungPublicLibrarian: go
20:58	sekjal	there is enough divergence in what's in Ubuntu that it can sometimes create surprising 'gotchas'
20:58	wizzyrea_mib	^^ this
20:59	jcamins	I wanted to clarify that Ubuntu was close enough for Debian for Koha work.
20:59		Though I only use Debian anymore.
20:59	sekjal	I'm running Koha on Ubuntu right now (as I type)
20:59	* wizzyrea_mib	runs it on ubuntu too
20:59	* magnuse	too
21:00	magnuse	(not in production, though)
21:00	jcamins	I have one production server running Ubuntu 10.04.
21:00	wizzyrea_mib	I run one server on ubuntu, simply because I needed it right away and the OS was already installed :)
21:00	jcamins	Soon to switch to Debian, 'cause I got angry with 12.04, and don't believe in second chances.
21:00	wizzyrea_mib	harsh!
21:00	atmanning	Is there a general consensus on the best platform for a fresh install?   I wanted to use Ubuntu 12.04 and Koha 3.8
21:01	wizzyrea_mib	most people use debian, and it's got the fewest real gotchas.
21:01		debian squeeze.
21:01	atmanning	I thought the live DVD thing was a great deal but I'm not so sure anymore....
21:01	druthb	Debian Squeeze.  3.6.x or 3.8.x, dealers' choice.
21:01	wizzyrea_mib	you know, personally, I'd go for 3.6
21:01	YoungPublicLibrarian	I want to use the generic report for "Fines w/ Patron & Item Info" from the "SQL Reports Library - Koha Wiki", but I want to have it ask to select a branch before running the report.
21:01	wizzyrea_mib	but that's just me
21:01		aha
21:01		YoungPublicLibrarian: ez
21:02		one min.
21:02	YoungPublicLibrarian	I tried to use the Runtime video as a guide, but it came back with an error when I ran it...
21:02	atmanning	not debian 6.0.5 (latest stable)?
21:03	jcamins	atmanning: Debian 6.0.5 = Squeeze.
21:03	magnuse	atmanning: on debian you can install with packages: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
21:03	pastebot	"wizzyrea" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "for YoungPublicLibrarian" (16 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/433
21:03	magnuse	atmanning: "sudo apt-get install koha-common" - that will install all the dependencies
21:04	jcamins	atmanning: yes, that's the best way to do it.
21:04	atmanning	Downloading squeeze now....  Will be testing in virtualbox...
21:05	YoungPublicLibrarian	Okay, so now if I want the borrowers address there as well I can just add things like b.address, b.city, b.state, b.zip...etc? Is that right?
21:05	jcamins	The 3.6 packages are still on an underpowered server of mine, though.
21:05	wizzyrea_mib	yep
21:05	YoungPublicLibrarian	Awesome! Thanks Wizzyrea_mib! You've been an awesome help!
21:06	sekjal	atmanning:  are you looking for an installation to test using, or did you want to be edit/add to the code?
21:08	atmanning	I am testing whether this will work to port our library from Winnebago - hoping to import 135K marc records after successful install
21:10	wizzyrea_mib	YoungPublicLibrarian: did it work?
21:11	sekjal	atmanning:  sounds like the packages will work very well for you
21:13	druthb	atmanning: You'll probably need to rearrange the item data fields some; MARCEdit can do that, or write a little perl script.
21:14	atmanning	this last install (3.8 on Ubuntu 10.04) imported with no modification of export from Winnebago, but then I have problems with items showing up in searches
21:15	druthb	the 952 formatting is a little tetchy.  if stuff isn't in just the right place, then the items won't get imported.
21:15	YoungPublicLibrarian	Wizzrea_mib: It did not. It gives me this error - <h1>Software error:</h1>           <pre>Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /home/koha/kohaclone/reports/guided_reports.pl line 618.  </pre>             <p>             For help  please send mail to the webmaster (<a href="mailto:staffbywatersolutions.com">staffbywatersolutions.com</a>)  gi
21:16		*Wizzyrea_mib (sorry, apparently can't type...)
21:17	wizzyrea_mib	<<Pick your branch|branches>> is what's in the documentation
21:18		so the problem may be that you have a space at the beginning of the report
21:18		that was for you YoungPublicLibrarian
21:20	YoungPublicLibrarian	Okay, so you think I have a rogue space somewhere?
21:21	shari	@karma
21:21	huginn`	shari: Highest karma: "rangi" (583), "oleonard" (507), and "wizzyrea" (342).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-109), "failed" (-83), and "-" (-50).
21:21	shari	@karma shari
21:21	huginn`	shari: Karma for "shari" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4.
21:21	wizzyrea_mib	I think you have a rogue space before the report sql
21:21	druthb	shari++
21:21	wizzyrea_mib	and/or, you just need to take out the line breaks in the report
21:21	jcamins	@karma jcamins
21:21	huginn`	jcamins: Karma for "jcamins" has been increased 318 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 317.
21:22	wizzyrea_mib	@karma wizzyrea
21:22	huginn`	wizzyrea_mib: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 342 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 342.
21:22	jcamins	@karma jcamins_away
21:22	huginn`	jcamins: Karma for "jcamins_away" has been increased 14 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 14.
21:22	druthb	@most increased
21:22	huginn`	druthb: "rangi": 588, "oleonard": 512, "wizzyrea": 342, "jcamins": 318, "gmcharlt": 311, "chris_n": 300, "cait": 291, "sekjal": 237, "paul_p": 226, "nengard": 216, "kf": 186, "magnuse": 166, "slef": 153, "druthb": 145, "eythian": 97, "fredericd": 71, "hdl": 68, "biblibre": 64, "hdl_laptop": 60, "jwagner": 54, "marcelr": 52, "kmkale": 46, "thd": 46, "atz": 44, and "pianohacker": 39
21:24	wizzyrea_mib	YoungPublicLibrarian: any luck?
21:25	YoungPublicLibrarian	Yes and no. I can't get the silly thing to run, but someone else in the consortium took it and tweaked it a bit and now it runs fine. So thanks for the help and I think we got it now!
21:25	sekjal	alrighty, time for me to jet off for the night.  cheers, #koha!
21:25	wizzyrea_mib	woot :)
21:25		later sekjal
21:26	YoungPublicLibrarian	Yes, thank you Wizzyrea! You have been a great help!
21:27	magnuse	wizzyrea++
21:28	jcamins	There we go. Another followup attached to bug 7936.
21:28	huginn`	04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7936 major, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Signed Off , general ticket for 3.8 help file updates
21:29	druthb	jcamins++
21:29		shari++
21:31	magnuse	wow, time to catch some sleep
21:31		have fun, #koha!
21:32	* jcamins	records his presentation.
21:32	* druthb	makes funny faces at jcamins_presenting
21:35	mtj	interesting -> http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how[…]he-penguin-update
21:35		... looks like kc.org is in a similar situ to wpmu.org
21:38		thanks $god we can now use our google-anal data to help solve the problem, at least
21:39		wajasu joined #koha
21:39	wizzyrea_mib	yep, that was the example that I found that seemed most like ours
21:40		LBA joined #koha
21:40	jcamins_presenting	Oh my.
21:40	wizzyrea_mib	I took off the SEO plugin that did a lot of keywords
21:41	jcamins_presenting	I _do_ say "aboot."
21:41	wizzyrea_mib	it *may* help?
21:41	jcamins_presenting	I have the weirdest accent.
21:41	wizzyrea_mib	if the link text doesn't contain a keyword it may help, I mean.
21:41	* jcamins_presenting	apologizes in advance to the non-native English speakers in Edinburgh.
21:42	wizzyrea_mib	it's ALL about relevancy now
21:42	* jcamins_presenting	can't watch himself.
21:42	wizzyrea_mib	that's common :)
21:43	jcamins_presenting	However, the first part recorded fine.
21:43	wizzyrea_mib	another option would be to give the syspref several different options of what to use as link back
21:43		so that it seems relevant
21:45	mtj	looking like the short version is... footer links to $your_domain is a no-no ?
21:46		thats my hunch...?
21:46	wajasu	i've got my shell script that can create a debiansqueeze+mysql+apache2+koha-common  (it creates a kvm image file via libvirt/virsh in 5min with debian network install.iso and the image in my /dev/shm  /tmp directory.  upon boot its ready on port 80/8080) .
21:46	wizzyrea_mib	yes, and I think if we got MDAH to turn theirs off
21:46		and bsz\
21:46		that would be pretty huge.
21:47	bag	mtj http://jezebel.com/5916095/tee[…]delicious-oatmeal
21:47	jcamins_presenting	wajasu: oh, did you did the livedvd?
21:47	mtj	wajasu:  congrats...
21:47	wajasu	now, i am working on adding git based dev environment for patches.
21:47	bag	mtj make sure you have your sound on when you watch that
21:47	wizzyrea_mib	someone was in earlier having trouble with indexing
21:47	bag	;)
21:48		wizzyrea_mib: what's m i b ?
21:48	druthb	m-i-b-bit, bag.
21:48	mtj	bag:  not now please!  i'm building my radio-controlled cat-helicopter...
21:49		bag:  short for mibbit..
21:49	bag	heh that's why I thought of you mtj
21:49		I was totally thinking it was Men In Black…
21:49	wizzyrea_mib	because I'm using a <spew> windows computer
21:49	* wizzyrea_mib	was in a wow guild once called the "merciless iry brigade"
21:49	wizzyrea_mib	or the MIB
21:49	bag	like wizzyrea_mib is all spy like
21:49	druthb	oi!  Careful with the spew, wizzyrea...I'm in the line of fire.
21:50	* wizzyrea_mib	does not spew on druthb
21:50	wajasu	jcamins_presenting: no livedvd.   just a script that i wrote that pulls abd builds from deb repos, and with a debian preseed file that does all the koha needed cusomizations.
21:50	jcamins_presenting	wajasu: oh, okay.
21:50		wajasu: you should share that. :)
21:51	wizzyrea_mib	^^ this
21:51	wajasu	yes.  i'll put it in pastebin, when i get the next part done.  git patch support.
21:51	jcamins_presenting	:)
21:51	wajasu	then later  in the wiki if folks want it.
21:51	wizzyrea_mib	oh, or, you could ask for push permission to contribs
21:51		that might be cool
21:53	wajasu	i saw that contribs. and i'll do that.  (one shell script to run).  its runs under my archlinux just fine.  (it assumes one has configured a bridge to the internet right now, and dhcp assigns an ip address, but that can be added later.
21:55		does anyone know how big a git clone is in megabytes.  I need to know off hand for my kvm image size build.
22:00		YoungPublicLibrarian joined #koha
22:00	YoungPublicLibrarian	Okay, I was wrong...the report I thought was perfect was missing a few things...So, Wizzyrea, still willing to help?
22:00		edveal left #koha
22:01	wajasu	it will be nice for trying out difference distributions, or perl versions, etc.  i can't wait to try to run  koha unit tests.
22:02	shari	goodbye, all!
22:16		sophie_m joined #koha
22:18		maximep left #koha
22:18	wajasu	ok git clone just over 1GB
22:37	slef	hi
22:37	wahanui	what's up, slef
22:37	slef	the sky
22:38		wahanui: the sky
22:38	wahanui	the sky is, like, the limit
22:42		drojf joined #koha
22:42	slef	hi drojf
22:42	drojf	hey slef
22:42		hope you all had a nice musical evening
22:43		i have a presentation now for tomorrow ;)
22:43	slef	where were youuuuu?
22:43	drojf	had to finish my slides, took way longer than i thought :/
22:50	jcamins_away	slef: are you still here?
22:50	drojf	slef: is there some place now where we collect all presentations?
22:51	jcamins_away	slef: I'm having some transcoding issues, but I think I've got it licked.
22:51		What format do you prefer the presentations in?
22:52		(MPG, OGG, etc.)
22:53	drojf	jcamins_away: video or audio?
22:53	jcamins_away	drojf: both.
22:54	drojf	from a free software point of view i would say ogg theora/ vorbis, but that is just me.
22:56	jcamins_away	Maybe... one ogg theora/vorbis option, and one mpg/mp3 option?
22:59	slef	jcamins_away: yep, am still here, but switching windows slowly
22:59	jcamins_away	slef: mpg/ogg/what would you like?
22:59	slef	I think we have mplayer if I have the same laptop as this afternoon so whatever you think
22:59	jcamins_away	Okay, thanks.
22:59	slef	display is as described on email
22:59	jcamins_away	Yep. :)
23:00	slef	bit me this morning
23:00		my own laptop does not seem to like that display
23:00	jcamins_away	I'm sending a 640x480 video. The PIP said "just go and die."
23:01		Aaaand, that didn't work.
23:03	* jcamins_away	kills his terminal by mistake.
23:24		sophie_m left #koha
23:26	drojf	better get some sleep. good night
23:33		papa joined #koha
23:42		cait-m_ joined #koha
23:56		cait joined #koha

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