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All times shown according to UTC.
Time | Nick | Message |
---|---|---|
00:00 | wizzyrea | there has to be a joke in there somewhere |
00:01 | that shark got pwnt. | |
00:01 | rangi | yup |
00:30 | Brooke joined #koha | |
00:30 | Brooke | o/ |
00:30 | the sharks are plotting revenge though | |
00:30 | http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.co[…]tralia/?hpt=hp_c2 | |
00:31 | but does this mean that when fighting an orca, one SHOULD fight like an octopus? | |
00:34 | @later tell Oak Camille Claudel (1988) | |
00:34 | huginn | Brooke: The operation succeeded. |
00:55 | rangi | http://www.freesoftwaremagazin[…]orchestra_january |
00:55 | very cool | |
01:16 | melia left #koha | |
01:23 | si joined #koha | |
03:10 | bag | evening #koha |
03:22 | AmitG joined #koha | |
03:30 | AmitG | heya bga |
03:30 | heya bag | |
03:30 | bag | heya AmitG |
04:39 | cait joined #koha | |
04:41 | kmkale joined #koha | |
04:43 | cait | hi #koha |
04:43 | eythian | hi cait |
04:44 | cait | hi eythian :) |
05:11 | eek rain | |
05:11 | @wunder Konstanz | |
05:11 | huginn | cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 7.0°C (6:00 AM CET on January 04, 2012). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014 hPa (Falling). |
05:27 | hdl joined #koha | |
07:06 | magnuse | kia ora #koha! |
07:10 | cait | uh |
07:11 | magnuse | huh? |
07:11 | * cait | is missing OPACItemHolds |
07:14 | bag | try searching for it |
07:14 | ;) | |
07:14 | cait | ok |
07:14 | bag | hardy har har |
07:14 | cait | found it |
07:14 | or found the reason | |
07:14 | bag | noice |
07:15 | hey what up magnuse | |
07:15 | magnuse | yo bag |
07:15 | just checking in to work... | |
07:15 | cait | and hi bag, morning magnuse :) |
07:15 | bag | just checking out - with a nice mixed drink ;) |
07:15 | magnuse | yay |
07:16 | bag | ah I'll be here for awhile I've got to program some acquistions migrations scripts for a SD migration :( |
07:16 | magnuse | ooh, sounds like fun |
07:17 | bag | totally! |
07:17 | magnuse | especially if you just realized you have to do it before you can leave |
07:21 | bag | heh |
07:22 | alex_a | hello |
07:22 | alex_a joined #koha | |
07:22 | alex_a | hello |
07:23 | bag | hi there alex_a |
07:23 | mtj? | |
07:23 | wahanui | DeM KraZy NutZ!! |
07:23 | bag | love it ;) |
07:25 | cait | @seen mtj |
07:25 | huginn | cait: mtj was last seen in #koha 5 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <mtj> ooh, Devel::CoverReport looks to do the magic there |
07:28 | bag | @seen kados |
07:28 | huginn | bag: I have not seen kados. |
07:28 | bag | HA |
07:28 | ;) | |
07:29 | @seen brendan | |
07:29 | huginn | bag: brendan was last seen in #koha 1 year, 0 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 37 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <brendan> @wunder 93109 |
07:29 | bag | wow that's weird |
07:29 | I'm only off my 37 minutes and 13 seconds | |
07:30 | but last year at this time… I was in a way way different place. Long live Koha 3.4 :) - my most favorite verison of koha | |
07:37 | AmitG_ joined #koha | |
07:42 | cait left #koha | |
07:48 | reiveune joined #koha | |
07:49 | reiveune | hello |
07:49 | wahanui | salut, reiveune |
07:57 | julian_m joined #koha | |
07:57 | matts | hi |
08:00 | francharb joined #koha | |
08:01 | francharb | hello |
08:01 | wahanui | what's up, francharb |
08:03 | bag | hi francharb |
08:03 | paul_p joined #koha | |
08:03 | paul_p | good morning #koha |
08:03 | magnuse | bonjour france! |
08:04 | bag | heya paul_p |
08:05 | paul_p | hi bag. Very early (or late) for you isn't it ? |
08:05 | hello magnuse | |
08:05 | bag | it's late :) |
08:05 | paul_p | waiting for Iowa results or the IRC meeting ? |
08:06 | bag | heh - not the Iowa results |
08:06 | but I think they are in now | |
08:07 | paul_p | and the winner is ? (at 8AM here they said XX, by 34 votes, and at 8:30 they said romney by 8 votes) |
08:10 | asaurat joined #koha | |
08:15 | kf joined #koha | |
08:15 | kf | good morning #koha |
08:15 | asaurat | hi! |
08:16 | kf | hi asaurat :) |
08:19 | magnuse | looks like romney by 8 votes |
08:19 | kf | ? |
08:20 | magnuse | preparations for us elections... |
08:20 | kf | oh |
08:23 | paul_p | magnuse, not just preparation: the vote of Iowa for the republican candidate choose |
08:23 | kf | bonjour paul_p :) |
08:24 | paul_p | hello kf |
08:25 | AmitG | heya paul_p, kf |
08:25 | bag | night all |
08:26 | magnuse | good night bag |
08:26 | kf | good night bag |
08:26 | hi AmitG | |
08:39 | Guillaume1 joined #koha | |
09:22 | Brooke joined #koha | |
09:22 | Brooke | 0/ |
09:23 | magnuse | \o |
09:23 | kf | hi Brooke |
09:24 | Brooke | howdy |
09:24 | Galen won't let me create a circular dependency! He's so strict if he won't let me do that! | |
09:25 | magnuse | yeah, that's mean ;-) |
09:26 | Brooke | ;) |
09:26 | magnuse | meeting is in ~30 minutes? |
09:27 | Brooke | a yep |
09:27 | magnuse | good thing our designated driver is present and accounted for then! |
09:28 | Brooke | heh |
09:28 | I just agreed to be a bus driver | |
09:28 | never said I was sober :P | |
09:28 | in fact, the French *made* me chair after gin. | |
09:29 | magnuse | yay for the french! |
09:29 | Brooke | @later tell druthb http://www.xkcd.com/ |
09:29 | huginn | Brooke: The operation succeeded. |
09:35 | Brooke | death to C4 by lingering nomenclature poison |
09:39 | kf | hm |
09:39 | anyone an idea about the alert and notifys tables? are those used for anything? | |
09:48 | ColinC joined #koha | |
09:48 | thd joined #koha | |
09:50 | kmkale joined #koha | |
09:53 | julian_m joined #koha | |
09:54 | julian_m | hi #koha |
09:54 | Brooke | hi there |
09:55 | mbalmer joined #koha | |
09:55 | mbalmer | meeting started yet? |
09:55 | Brooke | nope |
09:55 | they'd throttle me if I started 5 min early | |
09:56 | * Brooke | has tried. ;) |
09:56 | mbalmer | ok, np then. I am here .. |
09:56 | jwagner joined #koha | |
09:56 | * Brooke | is jonesin for a new First Monday |
09:57 | slef | morning |
09:57 | kf | hi slef :) |
09:57 | paul_p | hello & good (early) morning USA ! |
09:57 | kf | happy new year :) |
09:57 | paul_p | happynew year slef |
09:57 | slef | happy new year everyone |
09:58 | mbalmer | hny to every1! |
09:58 | clrh | hello all :) |
09:58 | Brooke | it's never to early for mimosas, Paul ;) |
09:58 | asaurat | hello all and happy new year :) |
09:59 | thd | Brooke: Who is "jones" and what is "First Monday"? |
10:00 | Brooke | #startmeeting |
10:00 | huginn | Meeting started Wed Jan 4 10:00:01 2012 UTC. The chair is Brooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
10:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | |
10:00 | Brooke | #topic Introductions |
10:00 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions | |
10:00 | kf | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany |
10:00 | kmkale | #info Koustubha Kale Anant Corporation, India |
10:00 | magnuse | #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
10:00 | Brooke | Haere Mai welcome to the Koha Community Meeting feel free to introduce yourself with #info |
10:00 | paul_p | #info Paul Poulain, France, 3.8 Release Manager |
10:00 | jwagner | #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS |
10:00 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
10:00 | ColinC | #info Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe, UK |
10:00 | slef | #info MJ Ray, the http://software.coop's liaison to http://koha-community.org |
10:01 | mbalmer | #info Marc Balmer, micro systems, CH, NetBSD committer, X.Org committer, Basel, Switzerland |
10:01 | clrh | #info Claire, BibLibre, MArseille France |
10:01 | asaurat | #info Adrien Saurat, BibLibre, France |
10:01 | julian_m | #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, Marseille, France |
10:01 | Joubu joined #koha | |
10:02 | Joubu | #info Joubu Jonathan Druart. BibLibre FR |
10:02 | matts | #info Matthias Meusburger, BibLibre, Sélestat, France |
10:02 | Joubu | hello |
10:03 | davidnind joined #koha | |
10:03 | Brooke | neat someone stuck announcements on the agenda |
10:04 | paul_p | no one from NZ ? you're all sleeping already ? |
10:04 | Brooke | #topic Announcements |
10:04 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements | |
10:04 | Brooke | anyone? |
10:04 | slef | is KohaCon its own item? |
10:04 | paul_p | yes, i've one: it's sunny in Marseille ;-) |
10:04 | * slef | plays hunt the agenda |
10:05 | Brooke | yes it is slef |
10:05 | slef | paul_p: send the sun North, please! |
10:05 | paul_p | (and more sunny in March, so come here for the hackfest :D ) |
10:05 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]g,_4_January_2012 |
10:05 | slef | magnuse: ta. Just found it :) |
10:05 | Brooke | on a serious note, we didn't get the DML grant, but that's no surprise given how hostile their attachment thingy was |
10:05 | mbalmer | my own announcement would be support for PostgreSQL, but that is already a point on the agenda |
10:05 | slef | DML? |
10:05 | Brooke | and also that submission was over KohaCon |
10:05 | the achievement thing | |
10:05 | mebbe try next year, mebbe not | |
10:06 | yeah stop hoppin the agenda :P | |
10:06 | slef | Hrm, too much eggnog for me, clearly. |
10:06 | Brooke | #topic Roadmap to 3.4 |
10:06 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.4 | |
10:06 | Brooke | update on old stuff anyone? |
10:07 | paul_p | chris_n is not here, I suspect we won't have any update |
10:07 | kf | I think he published some dates to the mailing list |
10:08 | Brooke | k consult el mailing list |
10:08 | kf | [Koha-devel] 3.4.8 Release Timeline Update |
10:08 | Brooke | and I'm thinking that might affect the next point too but hey |
10:08 | #Topic Roadmap to 3.6 | |
10:08 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.6 | |
10:09 | kf | 26th december: string freeze on 8th, release on 14th january |
10:09 | for 3.4.8 | |
10:10 | Brooke | kk |
10:10 | #topic Roadmap to 3.8 | |
10:10 | Topic for #koha is now Roadmap to 3.8 | |
10:10 | slef | #info the Roadmap to 3.4 and Roadmap to 3.6 wiki pages need updating to reflect current release maintenance |
10:10 | Brooke | take it away Paul |
10:10 | paul_p | well, I've sent my monthly RM newsletter, where i've already written many things. |
10:11 | there is a lot of traffic. It seems the process of signing-QAing-pushing goes faster and faster, even if some patches stay stuck for a long period | |
10:11 | mostly that's those who are hard/long to test | |
10:11 | magnuse | #link http://lists.koha-community.or[…]ember/036711.html |
10:12 | paul_p | otherwise, i'm working on my sandbox testing mechanism those days. I've something that start to work |
10:12 | I may open something soon, for some volunteers who could be candidate to test | |
10:12 | * Brooke | will guinea pig for that. |
10:12 | kf | in general it would be great to see more different people signing off |
10:13 | some of the patches stuck in queue are hard to test without reading the code/looking at the code too | |
10:13 | paul_p | another topic: we plan to have BibLibre dev team dedicating half of his time to Koha (4 persons). |
10:13 | that will be dedicated to submitting our acquisition/serials/solR work to mainstream | |
10:13 | magnuse | yay! |
10:14 | clrh | (Joubu: julian_m matts and me) |
10:14 | slef | I'm still a bit confused about 3.6/3.8/master. |
10:14 | Brooke | how so? |
10:14 | slef | First of all, when should I tag a bug rel_3_8 and when master? |
10:14 | paul_p | slef, could you explain ? |
10:15 | thd | paul_p: What does the BibLibre development team do when not working on Koha? |
10:15 | slef | Brooke: I can't type that fast :) |
10:15 | paul_p | thd, BibLibre funded stuff ;-) |
10:15 | kf | does the koha work include sign-offs and testing? |
10:15 | paul_p | I answer to SLEF |
10:15 | thd | paul_p: Is that not funded for Koha in reality or eventuality? |
10:15 | paul_p | slef: if you declare a bug, please declare it against the version you get it (3.6) |
10:16 | Brooke | @quote add paul_p "I answer to SLEF" |
10:16 | huginn | Brooke: The operation succeeded. Quote #174 added. |
10:16 | slef | paul_p: I'll nearly always have confirmed it against master. |
10:16 | paul_p | slef: if it's an ENH, declare it against master. when the patch is submitted/pushed, I (as RM) will tag it to rel_3_8 or rel_3_6 |
10:16 | depending on if it's to be backported to 3.6 or will be in 3.8 | |
10:17 | SO : | |
10:17 | slef | paul_p: not usually an ENH |
10:17 | paul_p | slef, small ENH are pushed in rel_3_6 by chris_n if they apply and don't change the workflow/display |
10:17 | so: | |
10:17 | * rel_3_6 => the patch will be in 3.6 or is in 3.6 | |
10:18 | * master => the patch has not be merged, and we don't know in which version it will be merged | |
10:18 | * rel_3_8 => should be used only by me when pushing to say "it's for 3.8" | |
10:18 | slef | paul_p: so what in my example case? Bug (not ENH) reported to me against 3.6 which I confirm is still present is master, but I feel should be fixed in a 3.8 release? => master? |
10:19 | paul_p: in other words, mortals should not use the rel_3_8 version? | |
10:19 | paul_p | slef, "mortals" should not use rel_3_8 (but, breaking news, i'm mortal too ;-) ) |
10:19 | slef | paul_p: yeah but you've temporary super cow powers. |
10:19 | paul_p | in your example, you should use 3.6, and you can use master |
10:20 | (if you use master i'll update to rel_3_6 when pushing the patch) | |
10:20 | sound clear ? | |
10:20 | slef | why should use 3.6? In the example, the bug is still in master. |
10:20 | s/still/also | |
10:20 | paul_p | slef, yes, but the workflow is to submit bugs against the version where it's detected. |
10:21 | thd | paul_p: The better translation from the Greek is supposedly "liable to death". However, death should be illegal. Please let us have no fatal accidents. |
10:21 | Brooke | #info submit bugs against the version where you detect it |
10:22 | paul_p | #info if you detect a bug in 3.6, declare it rel_3_6. If you don't know, or if it's an ENHancement, use master |
10:22 | slef | paul_p: I've detected it in both, so I'd intuitively thought it should be reported against the latest applicable and then the fix will spread backwards. |
10:22 | kf | as paul_p mentioned the sign-off process - I would like to talk about that once paul_p is finished answering slef's question |
10:22 | slef | Anyway, that clears that one up even if it's counter-intuitive to me. Thanks. My other confusion is how do I tell which public-reported bugs are from 3.6 and which are from master? I think master now reports a 3.6 version number. |
10:22 | paul_p | #info rel_3_8 is used by the Release Manager when pushing a patch that will, then, be in 3.8 once it's released |
10:23 | slef | kf: oops, sorry! |
10:23 | kf | slef: no reason :) |
10:23 | paul_p | slef, yep, and that's a mistake (from me) i'll fix (vey) soon. We had a long (private) discussion about that with rangi & chris_n |
10:23 | slef | paul_p: ok, temporary problem. Cool. Thanks. |
10:23 | paul_p | I have to summarize everything and send a mail to koha-devel |
10:23 | mle joined #koha | |
10:24 | paul_p | kf, your question ? |
10:24 | kf | not a question |
10:24 | but I want to remind people to look at patches | |
10:24 | paul_p | thd, about your question = yes, our halftime include signof & testing, of course |
10:24 | kf | signing off can not only be done by a few people / bug wranglers |
10:24 | slef | #info Koha master/dev versions reporting 3.6.x version numbers is a temporary problem which will be fixed. Email to koha-devel soon. |
10:24 | kf | it's a task too big for a few people and very important |
10:25 | paul_p | kf++ |
10:25 | Brooke | #help as always, we need more people to help with signoffs, and kf promised to bake for you *notintendedasafactualstatement |
10:25 | kf | so please, if everyone here would sign off one bug a week, or look at it, coment, add information |
10:25 | paul_p | and we will submit in the next months a lot of changes to acquisition & serials, so we will need everybody help here ! |
10:25 | kf | we could move much faster |
10:26 | Brooke | I should hope a working sandbox will speed this up cait :) |
10:26 | paul_p | I really hope too ! |
10:26 | kf | I am not sure it will |
10:26 | I think people here could work without sandboxes easily | |
10:26 | the problem is making time for it and doing it | |
10:26 | Brooke | some of it |
10:26 | wahanui | some of it is foolish pride |
10:26 | paul_p | #info Paul is working on sandbox system and should have something in the next weeks. That will help librarians testing patches |
10:27 | mle | #info Matthew Edmondson, software.coop/Project Manager (apologies for latenesss) |
10:27 | paul_p | kf, yes and no : the problem is also having a git setup with at least a few git skills |
10:27 | Brooke | but if it moved into pick up work at a Library, folks that don't usually code could contribute to the effort :) |
10:27 | clrh | sandboxes should help, everything that automate things helps but right, we need time and people ;) |
10:27 | paul_p | I really want to have more *librarians* involved |
10:27 | Brooke | paul_p++ |
10:27 | kf | paul_p: I think it's not up to librarians to do all of the job |
10:27 | Brooke | (not that Cait is not a Librarian) |
10:27 | kf | developers have to do it too |
10:28 | paul_p | and I mean true librarians, those that will never learn "git bz apply 1234" |
10:28 | thd | paul_p++ more librarians |
10:28 | kf | I mean we have to split time |
10:28 | between writing new features (which is always more fun) and looking at the code of others | |
10:28 | mbalmer | #info we are setting up a group with two librarians, one content guy and one tech guy |
10:28 | kf | it's give and take |
10:28 | paul_p | kf, agreed |
10:28 | Brooke | I think it's important not to feel overwhelmed and rushed as a dev |
10:28 | paul_p | well, we will see how the sandbox works & is welcomed by volunteers ! |
10:28 | thd | paul_p: True librarians should also learn git, even if that would not be necessary for all. |
10:29 | paul_p | s/welcomed/use/ |
10:29 | thd, in France, if librarian were 1st all learning english, I would be *very* happy. | |
10:29 | Brooke | ha! |
10:29 | paul_p | thinking they could learn git ... no... |
10:29 | mbalmer | mince ;) |
10:29 | asaurat | we should all switch to latin |
10:29 | paul_p | mbalmer, you speak french ? |
10:30 | Brooke | asaurat++ |
10:30 | kf | paul_p: I think we shouldn't start the discussison again about what librarians can or not can do ;) |
10:30 | slef | bah, you francophobe paul_p ;) |
10:30 | mbalmer | mais oui |
10:30 | paul_p | kf++ |
10:30 | any more question about 3.8 ? | |
10:30 | * magnuse | has been working on a script to help make testing/signing off easier - improvements welcome https://github.com/MagnusEnger/kohatesting |
10:30 | thd | paul_p: I try learning a little French to meet them a little way. :) |
10:31 | slef | eh bon, nous choisons français comme langue official koha-community? |
10:31 | asaurat | :D |
10:31 | paul_p | je suis d'accord ! |
10:31 | * slef | pardonpetas |
10:31 | kf | oh |
10:31 | Brooke | no! |
10:31 | kf | and as we talked about testing |
10:31 | GBSD is on friday! | |
10:31 | Brooke | Lingua Latina :P |
10:31 | mbalmer | what is GBSD? |
10:31 | wahanui | rumour has it GBSD is Global Bug Squashing Day |
10:31 | Brooke | anyhow |
10:31 | moving on to the nerd fight | |
10:31 | kf | so if anyone has problems with testing or questions - I will be around and can answer questions (to my best knowledge) |
10:31 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]bug_squashing_day |
10:31 | slef | wahanui++ for a useful contribution for a change |
10:31 | mbalmer | ah, not another BSD... |
10:31 | paul_p | kf, yep, GSBDing on all BibLibre friday agenda |
10:32 | Brooke | #topic Running Koha on PostgreSQL |
10:32 | Topic for #koha is now Running Koha on PostgreSQL | |
10:32 | mbalmer | I have two goals which would like to be goals of the community: |
10:32 | 1 Let Koha users run Koha on PostgreSQL | |
10:33 | 2 Help developers write proper SQL code that runs on both MySQL and PostgreSQL | |
10:33 | 1 will be achieved through 2 | |
10:33 | thd | mbalmer++ |
10:33 | Brooke | step 3 profit? |
10:33 | dpavlin | mbalmer++ |
10:33 | mbalmer | I think a shim layer is needed that produces some of the SQL code. |
10:33 | thd | Step 2 is the difficult part. |
10:34 | mbalmer | I did a code "audit" and identified already many problematic spots. Some of the SQL code is just - excuse me - horrid ;) But easy to fix. |
10:34 | paul_p | mbalmer, would you be able to write a wiki page with incompatibilities ? |
10:34 | like ` iirc | |
10:34 | mbalmer | I already started that page. |
10:34 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/PostgreSQL |
10:34 | thd | mbalmer: "shim"? |
10:35 | mbalmer | and I already started to write the abstraction layer. |
10:35 | shim as in as small as possible and as little overhead as possible. | |
10:35 | clrh | mbalmer: great, could you share it? |
10:35 | slef | there must be other pages out there already. We are not the first project to move from mysql to multiple sqlds |
10:35 | magnuse | isn't there some pre-existing code that can be used? |
10:35 | mbalmer | no. |
10:35 | clrh | because we begin to really think about this work |
10:35 | ColinC | yes we dont want to reinvent |
10:36 | mbalmer | and it is not needed. it easy, if you understand the database stuff right.. |
10:36 | paul_p | mbalmer, about the abstraction be carefull, it may conflict with general code rewriting (remove C4 !) |
10:36 | mbalmer | of course I can share. |
10:36 | clrh | try to think of better code layers and splitting stuffs |
10:36 | mbalmer | I have a pgsql git branch locally, btw. |
10:36 | big question NR 1: Is PostgreSQL a goal? | |
10:36 | Brooke | can you #info your git branch if it's amenable? |
10:36 | mbalmer | If yes, then I can write up some best practices etc. documents |
10:37 | Brooke | I think interoperability is always a goal |
10:37 | slef | Brooke: mbalmer: or #link? |
10:37 | Brooke | but I could be very wrong. |
10:37 | paul_p | mbalmer, I don't think so, our goal should be to be database agnostic |
10:37 | mbalmer | Brooke, what do you mean? putting it online? |
10:37 | Brooke | putting it here if possible so folks that are curious can poke at it |
10:37 | slef | mbalmer: yes, I think it should be, as a step towards full DB Independence |
10:37 | mbalmer | paul_p, yes support PostgreSQL as one possibility, of course. |
10:38 | paul_p | ok, we agree then. And in this case, it's something that must be included in the general process rewrite/refactoring |
10:38 | mbalmer | but that means that people should stop committing stuff that is MySQL only… At least when a neutral form is easy to accomplish |
10:38 | paul_p | so not a goal in itself, just a consequence of a "refactoring for more performance/stability/portability" |
10:39 | mbalmer | that is why started a page with SQL idioms, MySQL form, PostgreSQL form, neutral form. |
10:39 | Brooke | mm hmm |
10:39 | paul_p | mbalmer, it's something for QA, if you can write guidelines, then that would be a good start ! |
10:39 | mbalmer | A neutral form is not always possible, that is way that SQL layer is needed. |
10:39 | paul_p | mbalmer, you could even write a test, like complaining if you detect CURDATE() somewhere ! |
10:39 | s/test/unit test/ | |
10:39 | magnuse | unit_tests++ |
10:40 | thd | mbalmer: There is certainly some code which is not reducible to standard SQL. |
10:40 | mbalmer | so you all agree that supporting PostgreSQL, in addition to MySQL, is a viable goal? |
10:40 | thd, exactly. | |
10:40 | paul_p | mbalmer, yep |
10:41 | mbalmer | but I think a way can be found to make such code work on MySQL _AND_ PostgreSQL by dynamically producing the SQL code in an optimal form for the respective database. |
10:41 | clrh | at BibLibre, we have a hook "pre-cpommit" we use to filter bad practice before git commit, it helps |
10:41 | thd | mbalmer: One very radical idea is to not use SQL at all for some problems which are not reducible to standard SQL. |
10:41 | clrh | and we should have a list of good practices of what touse and what avoid |
10:41 | paul_p | mbalmer, joubu is sitted just on my right, so you've already 2 members of the QA team that are OK to check SQL if they have directions to do so ! |
10:41 | magnuse | clrh++ |
10:42 | thd | mbalmer++ dynamically generated code |
10:42 | clrh | what to use |
10:42 | mbalmer | I can start such a document. I have very long experience in the database area. And I still think the Koha database is not too complex. |
10:42 | Brooke | the goal is not to support Eurasia or Eastasia |
10:42 | the goal is to support all options possible | |
10:42 | ColinC | Surely the good practice is to factor out the sql to a db layer |
10:42 | clrh | so mbalmer if you can share your best practices, it would be great |
10:42 | ColinC: we agree too | |
10:42 | mbalmer | Brooke, I agree totally. |
10:42 | paul_p | Other information: this afternoon, joubu & i have a meeting to list all inconsistencies in the database. We will write a wiki page. |
10:42 | Brooke | kk just putting that out there |
10:43 | thd | Brooke: the goal is to support Oceania. ;) |
10:43 | paul_p | inconsistencies or strange things in DB (from a design point of view) |
10:43 | mbalmer | If we can factor out the mysqlisms, and psqlisms, we can do the same for virtually *ANY* database |
10:43 | Brooke | if you're gonna bother with compatibility might as well bother as much as poss |
10:43 | clrh | clean layers, no circular dependencies, etc. but it is next subject ;) |
10:43 | Brooke | thd: I have ate the taro and kumara ;P |
10:43 | it's not the *next* subject, but it's coming | |
10:43 | mbalmer | ok. I am fine with the outcome. Thanks! |
10:43 | Brooke | #topic KohaCon2012 |
10:43 | Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2012 | |
10:44 | kf | paul_p++ was writing database documentation today and I think some tables are no longer used |
10:44 | mbalmer | how many people do usually attend a KohaCon? |
10:44 | slef | OK. I think mle will scream if I'm wrong, but we're going to release the dates now. |
10:44 | * slef | looks it up to make sure |
10:44 | magnuse | ooh! |
10:44 | paul_p | Brooke, can I say most of us (BibLibre) don't understand half of your sentences ? |
10:45 | I have ate the taro and kumara => ?? | |
10:45 | Brooke | paul_p that's true of everywhere |
10:45 | slef said support oceania | |
10:45 | I ate well when there, bro | |
10:45 | slef | #info Conference Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June |
10:46 | mbalmer | where? |
10:46 | Brooke | hooray for dates |
10:46 | paul_p | slef++ |
10:46 | hooray for dates ! | |
10:46 | slef | #info That's in central Edinburgh |
10:46 | kf | slef++ mle++ |
10:46 | mbalmer | oh, cool! |
10:46 | slef | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ategory:KohaCon12 |
10:46 | magnuse | slef++ mle++ |
10:47 | kf | slef: will you send a mail to the list too? |
10:48 | jwagner | slef, when will you be asking for presenters? |
10:48 | mle | : ) |
10:48 | slef | #info the wiki will be updated RSN (please help), the list emailed this week, some sort of sponsorship drive started this month and registrations taken |
10:48 | mbalmer | slef, I could to a DB releated talk, about how to, what to, what not to, and so on. |
10:48 | slef | jwagner: after we've contacted the volunteers |
10:49 | paul_p | slef, do you plan to organize a trip like in NZ ? |
10:49 | slef | We will give preference to things that appear on the Wishlist (and haven't been added by their presenter ;-) ) |
10:50 | paul_p: I intend to, but at this point it is only an intention. We will prioritise organising the conference. | |
10:50 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ist_for_KohaCon12 |
10:50 | paul_p | slef, of course, but the trip Auckland=> Wellington was so great that I would be very happy to do London=>Edinburg as well ! |
10:51 | mbalmer | norther scotland whisky trails ;) |
10:51 | asaurat | a fishing session on Loch Ness |
10:51 | slef | paul_p: ah, I was meaning the Friday off. I'd like to do a road trip too, if there is interest. |
10:52 | paul_p | slef, you can consider there is an interest from BibLibre (for a roadtrip) |
10:53 | (+ for the friday off trip, of course) | |
10:53 | slef | paul_p: could someone from BL add a sign-up/interest list to the wiki, please? Just who to contact and how many seats? |
10:54 | Brooke | #help now that we have dates and junk start adding things to the wiki |
10:54 | mle | inital fishing enquiries suggest its expensive near edinburgh |
10:54 | asaurat | I fish with my bare hands |
10:55 | Brooke | asaurat++ |
10:55 | asaurat | but well, a road trip is fine too ;) |
10:55 | slef | #action add initial interest/sign-up lists for conference, hackfest, road trip and Friday social to the wiki Category:KohaCon12 |
10:55 | ColinC | guggling in Scotland |
10:55 | thd | slef: What are your plans to fish for defeating the expense problem? |
10:55 | slef | mle: any answer to thd? |
10:56 | thd: I'm leaving that to mle because he's in that city and I'm not. | |
10:56 | AmitG | heya slef |
10:57 | * mle | googles guggling : ) |
10:57 | slef | Any other questions, or tips, or whatever? |
10:58 | mle | thd: we have some ideas, but notheing to announce as yet. : ) |
10:58 | thd | mle: the overall expense of the venue is a most important question. |
10:58 | mle: The lower the cost the greater the attendance. | |
10:58 | Brooke | are we exhausted on Conference yet? |
10:59 | mle | thd the expense of the venue is very very affordable |
10:59 | slef | OK, hearing nothing more... |
10:59 | #info we look forward to welcoming you in Scotland's capital during the UN International Year of Co-operatives! | |
10:59 | Brooke | #topic Discuss the move from C4 to Koha namespace |
10:59 | Topic for #koha is now Discuss the move from C4 to Koha namespace | |
10:59 | mle | thd: ++ |
10:59 | thd | mle: Perhaps I was not taking your reference to 'fishing' literally enough. |
10:59 | Brooke | galen up yet? |
11:00 | clrh | as I said, we try to thing about koha design and layers |
11:00 | slef | thd: yeah, some (jcamins?) suggested actual fishing for fish as an activity on the Friday. |
11:00 | paul_p | s/thing/think/ |
11:01 | was it me that added this topic ? I think so. | |
11:01 | thd | What is in a layer? |
11:01 | or What layers are there / should there be? | |
11:02 | Brooke | looks like Chris N |
11:02 | clrh | a layer in app is parts of code that answer to some goals |
11:02 | paul_p | We spoke a lot of code rewritting, and we (BibLibre) agree it's needed. I think most of us agree on how it should be done (separate business logic/ database for example) |
11:02 | clrh | thd we talk before about "data layer" |
11:02 | paul_p | what we need now, I think, is a POC ! |
11:02 | clrh | but there is to "front layer" and surely somthing between |
11:03 | kf | paul_p: I think thre are some POC |
11:03 | patches already using a new Koha:: namespace | |
11:03 | paul_p | kf = where ? |
11:03 | kf that's not a POC ! | |
11:03 | a POC is a more general plan on where we want to go | |
11:03 | kf | Ithought it was code showing how something works |
11:03 | sekjal joined #koha | |
11:04 | magnuse | bug 7359 |
11:04 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7359 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Begin migration to a new "Koha" namespace from the old "C4" namespace |
11:04 | clrh | kf we talk about application design, we cant just drop some code lines |
11:04 | paul_p | kf, yes it is. |
11:04 | kf | paul_p: plans are different things |
11:04 | slef | POC is Proof Of Concept |
11:04 | wahanui | i already had it that way, slef. |
11:04 | paul_p | kf, i'm not clear |
11:05 | we must have general directions about where we want to go, then a POC, then patches. | |
11:05 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]amespace_QA_Rules |
11:05 | paul_p | I think most of the general directions are in our minds, but written nowhere. |
11:05 | magnuse, that's a good start, right | |
11:06 | thd | paul_p: I had thought that there was a list. Separating business logic from X always seems much more difficult in practise than in mere contemplation. |
11:06 | sekjal | #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, QAM foe 3.8 (sorry I'm late, alarmclock malfunction) |
11:06 | paul_p | thd, we had 2 meetings (at BibLibre) about that. Joubu even has written a 1st POC that could be shared soon |
11:06 | kf | paul_p: I think if we take too much time planning, we will not get anywhere - there are already patches implementing something that has been talked about a while ago - why not look at those? |
11:06 | paul_p | hello sekjal |
11:07 | kf | if there is disagreement about how things are done there it can be improved, can be used to test the new plan |
11:07 | paul_p | kf, the patch attached to 7359 contains nothing |
11:07 | just + './Koha' => 'PERL_MODULE_DIR', | |
11:07 | kf | there are others |
11:08 | I think hourly loans | |
11:08 | is one of them | |
11:08 | paul_p | kf, patch number ? |
11:08 | kf | jared did something too for local cover images |
11:08 | magnuse | 7359 was meant as an official starting point and center of discussion for starting moving things into Koha:: namespace, i think |
11:09 | clrh | kf 5549? |
11:09 | kf | agreed, so perhaps we can link the other bugs to that |
11:09 | magnuse | jcamins chenged his patch so it does not use Koha:: after all |
11:09 | thd | There is a fundamental problem that business logic creeps in or seems especially difficult to abstract just as many things for which we use the database cannot be abstracted to standard SQL alone. |
11:09 | kf | yes, because there was disagreement about it |
11:09 | but perhaps we should encourage people working on new features to start using Koha:: | |
11:09 | clrh | I think we just don't want to copy C4 into Koha but improve thinks |
11:09 | magnuse | kf: yup, or rather that it had not been officially discussed/decided |
11:10 | paul_p | I repeat : we had 2 meetings (at BibLibre) about this refactoring. Joubu even has written a 1st POC that could be shared soon |
11:10 | clrh | kf yep, I did'nt see it (for links) |
11:10 | magnuse | clrh++ |
11:10 | Brooke | so then |
11:10 | paul_p | it's *much* more than hourly loan example. |
11:10 | Brooke | if we're looking for official action |
11:10 | mbalmer | clrh, maybe the move from C4 to Koha could be used to fix a few SQL things as well |
11:10 | Brooke | do we vote now or do we vote later? |
11:10 | paul_p | Brooke, later ! |
11:10 | clrh | mbalmer: of course |
11:10 | kf | bug 7387, bug 7284, bug 929 |
11:10 | Waylon joined #koha | |
11:10 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7387 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , Add Template::Toolkit plugin to allow caching of includes |
11:10 | Brooke | galen's guidelines made sense even to me |
11:10 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7284 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Authority matching algorithm improvements |
11:10 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ow_bug.cgi?id=929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , See details of a budget | |
11:10 | Waylon | hello all! |
11:10 | ColinC | without seeing the code we have nothing to go on |
11:10 | kf | hm bug 7248 (typo sorry) |
11:10 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7248 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Caching for services |
11:10 | paul_p | Brooke, yes, but they're not enough |
11:11 | ColinC++ | |
11:11 | Brooke | surely that's enough for a start. |
11:11 | Waylon | Ah.. a meeting currently in session? |
11:11 | Brooke | yep |
11:11 | Waylon | k. ill wait... watch. and might learn something. |
11:11 | clrh | it is not just "putting a pm on a new namespace"... |
11:11 | paul_p | Brooke, enough for investigating more. But WHAT do we put in this new namespace ! |
11:12 | if we want to split business & data logic, for example, we need to define their namespace as well ! | |
11:12 | clrh | it is not just "putting a pm on a new namespace", and I think it should contains data layer problematics too - we need a little bit of time to think about id |
11:12 | it | |
11:13 | Brooke | can you guys add your reservations to the bug then? Because I'm not seeing those from here. |
11:13 | kf | clrh: that's not like it was done I think |
11:13 | mbalmer | I will pbly use two modules/namesspaces, SQL and DB, should they be within Koha or outside? Maybe SQL, which is Koha agnostic, outside? |
11:13 | sekjal | idea for Koha:: namespace: two layers of .pm, Data access and Transactional. Only Data access layer talks to DB, and Transactions talk to Data access layer |
11:14 | magnuse | loose_consensus_and_running_code++ |
11:14 | if we spend too much time discussing what to do we might never get around to doing anything... | |
11:14 | kf | yes |
11:14 | Brooke | magnus++ |
11:14 | bigbrovar joined #koha | |
11:14 | paul_p | sekjal, agreed ! and that's where/why we need a more detailled proposition ! |
11:14 | thd | clrh: The difficulty of abstraction is partly that what is returned by the data layer can improperly define the business logic. I had written a meta-bug report about this problem. |
11:14 | kf | magnuse++ |
11:15 | Waylon | hmm... so isolating db specific code, so one can develop db access for other databases without too much hassle eh? |
11:15 | kf | I think we could take existing work as a start |
11:15 | people can make suggestions looking at this code - signingoff/qaing it | |
11:15 | clrh | thd what number please? |
11:15 | Brooke | http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7248 |
11:15 | huginn | 04Bug 7248: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Caching for services |
11:16 | thd | clrh: checking ... |
11:16 | mbalmer | I suggest a SQL module which produces "optimal" SQL for a specific DB for operations that can not be expressed in standard SQL. Should that be in Koha or outside? I am for outside. |
11:16 | sekjal | writing/migrating the Data Access layer should involve, I think, looking at some of the data structures we currently have in our DB, and what we can do to change/improve them |
11:16 | like primary keys for reserves, etc | |
11:17 | thd | clrh: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3092 |
11:17 | huginn | 04Bug 3092: normal, P1 - high, ---, frederic, NEW , Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug |
11:17 | ColinC | there was some discussion of using a standard orm module earlier |
11:17 | mbalmer | I think using SQL is not a mistake. |
11:17 | clrh | The idea is not to write things from scratch but having best practice to refactor code little by little in a new workspace I think |
11:18 | mbalmer | clrh++ |
11:18 | magnuse | clrh: agreed |
11:18 | kf | clrh: agreed |
11:18 | sekjal | clrh: much more practical that way |
11:18 | clrh | so we will continue how work |
11:18 | s/how/our | |
11:18 | mbalmer | I will add my two modules, they can later be moved into Koha namespace, if it makes sense. |
11:18 | clrh | to give you asap some concrete things to talk about |
11:18 | magnuse | this is starting to sound like the topic for a separate meeting? |
11:19 | thd | clrh++ the proposed remedy I have at the end of that meta-bug is fixing the problem tiny piece by piece in an isolated manner so that nothing breaks. |
11:19 | clrh | magnuse: I think yes |
11:19 | ColinC | I would see most of the current big C4 modules as candidate for refactoring into the new name space and code slowly migrating to them |
11:19 | clrh | thd: did you find the reference? |
11:19 | o I didnt see it! | |
11:19 | thx | |
11:19 | Brooke | that and not everything need take place in a meeting |
11:19 | paul_p | Brooke++ |
11:19 | clrh | agreed Brooke :) |
11:20 | Brooke | did we secretly move on to Coding Guidelines while talking about C4? |
11:20 | #topic Coding Guidelines | |
11:20 | Topic for #koha is now Coding Guidelines | |
11:20 | magnuse | Brooke: don't think so ;-) |
11:21 | thd | clrh: However, paul_p wrote about rewriting code which is an opportunity to avoid having features which function as poorly before rewriting as after. |
11:21 | mbalmer | - Try to avoid SQL code that works only on a particular database. |
11:21 | - Refactor existing SQL code to work on any database ;) | |
11:21 | that would be two guidelines. | |
11:21 | plus: | |
11:22 | - if in doubt, ask. | |
11:22 | paul_p left #koha | |
11:22 | paul_p joined #koha | |
11:23 | thd | Refactoring and rewriting are not the same. rangi has stated this many times but had given up reminding and may be asleep now. |
11:23 | alex_a joined #koha | |
11:23 | Brooke | fool! Rangi never sleeps :P |
11:23 | mbalmer | thd, I agree. I meant rather rewrite or adapt, btw |
11:23 | Brooke | you guys aren't talkative so |
11:24 | #topic GBSD | |
11:24 | Topic for #koha is now GBSD | |
11:24 | Brooke | hey there's one coming up |
11:24 | mbalmer | there's bugs? |
11:24 | Brooke | it's Friday, or possibly Saturday depending on where you are |
11:24 | but you can always cheat and pretend you live someplace else. :D | |
11:25 | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]bug_squashing_day | |
11:25 | magnuse | nah, it's friday, in whatever timezone you happen to be in |
11:25 | Brooke | Friday? |
11:25 | wahanui | Friday is It's Friday, Friday Gotta get down on Friday |
11:26 | Brooke | #topic Actions from Last Meeting |
11:26 | Topic for #koha is now Actions from Last Meeting | |
11:27 | thd | Brooke: one injection about the hastily left issue of coding practise? |
11:27 | Brooke | the only stuff I see looks to be KohaCon 2013 |
11:27 | any new stuff there? | |
11:27 | thd: do you have a specific link to summat for something I've already moved past? | |
11:27 | is it really, really pressing? | |
11:27 | magnuse | i think maybe kf had things to say about coding guidelines too? |
11:28 | thd | Brooke: We had in the past suggested being clear in commits about ... |
11:28 | magnuse | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Coding_Guidelines |
11:28 | mbalmer | coding guidelines topic still open? |
11:28 | Brooke | #topic Coding Guidelines *again* |
11:28 | Topic for #koha is now Coding Guidelines *again* | |
11:28 | thd | fixing Perl coding style. |
11:28 | Brooke | if we keep skipping back to stuff, these meetings are gonna get even longer. #justsayin. |
11:28 | slef | did the "how to run tests" get updated? I'm elsewhere in the wiki |
11:28 | mbalmer | I'd love of lines would not be longer than 80 characters and indents be tabs with 8 character width. |
11:29 | kf | sorry, phone call |
11:29 | mbalmer | s/of/if/ |
11:29 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
11:29 | thd | We should also be clear in commits between refactoring and rewriting where rewriting has altered functionality. |
11:30 | magnuse | we already decided on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Perltidy |
11:30 | mbalmer | a bit like http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man[…]fault&format=html |
11:30 | asaurat | must a patch correct only what the bug title implies, or should we add other enhancements when possi |
11:30 | paul_p | mbalmer, we already have decided to use 4 spaces. |
11:30 | mbalmer | ok. |
11:30 | thd | The test for refactoring is that the same bugs are implemented in a different manner. |
11:31 | ColinC | bugs/behaviour |
11:31 | thd | Rewriting changes bugs fixes and/or adds new ones. |
11:31 | Brooke | this is failing my mental tests for does it belong in a meeting, btw |
11:31 | I think I have to do those up | |
11:31 | and vote on em at some point | |
11:32 | thd | Brooke: right |
11:32 | magnuse | i think the question now was how much perltidy'ing should we be doing? |
11:32 | sophie_m left #koha | |
11:32 | magnuse | if we fix some bug, should we perltidy just the one line we touched, a block, a whole function? |
11:32 | thd | magnuse: There was an unanswered question which paul_p posed about when to tidy? |
11:32 | Brooke | magnuse I think the old consensus was new stuff pretty darn tidy, old stuff we'd get to eventually. |
11:33 | thd | paul_p are you still here? |
11:33 | paul_p | thd, yep. |
11:33 | magnuse | so if a patch is tidying lines that were not otherwise changed, should it be failed qa? |
11:33 | ColinC | If you tidy more than is chamged it gets hardr to see what the change was in the history |
11:33 | paul_p | the problem is git blame. |
11:33 | magnuse | yup |
11:34 | clrh | something is to dig about "git blame -w" |
11:34 | thd | paul_p: Do you remember that you had wanted to discuss when to tidy during KohaCon 2011 dev week? |
11:34 | ColinC | but use taste i.e. a line before or after may get tidied to make the indent obvious |
11:34 | asaurat | yep, of course |
11:34 | mbalmer | why not tidying a file before fixing a bug? aka fix bugs in previously tidyied files? |
11:35 | magnuse | "-w Ignore whitespace when comparing the parent's version and the child's to find where the lines came from." cool! |
11:35 | paul_p | mbalmer, not in the same patch as the fix iteself ! |
11:35 | mbalmer | so these tidy ups get separate commits |
11:35 | paul_p | (otherwise, QAing is almost impossible, you get 1000 lines changed !) |
11:35 | yep, in separate commits. | |
11:35 | * kf | reads back now |
11:35 | mbalmer | paul_p, that is what I meant. one patch to tidy up, no function changes, a separate one for the actual fix |
11:36 | ColinC | you lose history if you tidy the file but it may be a good way to work on it just dont commit the whole tidied file |
11:36 | magnuse | there's also git diff to think about |
11:36 | paul_p | but a perltidy will result in git blame being wrong. |
11:36 | Brooke | do we care if the code is nicer? |
11:36 | paul_p | I think we must choose our poison ! |
11:36 | mbalmer | ColinC, why loose history? the tyding up becomes part of the history, or do I miss sth? |
11:37 | jwagner | Brooke, I think we definitely do care -- we frequently need to see when a particular change came in and who did it |
11:37 | mbalmer | Brooke, nicer code is easier to maintain, and means less errors |
11:37 | paul_p | either decide to perltidy everything, and loose history, or keep history and stop complaining about tidy |
11:37 | ColinC | yes we do care because it becomes harder to see what introduced some behaviour |
11:37 | thd | Brooke: It is not merely about having prettier code. Readability and consistency helps avoid bugs. |
11:37 | paul_p | I don't see another option ! |
11:37 | slef | mbalmer: maybe not lose history, but it can obscure it. |
11:37 | mbalmer | I don't understand why do we loos the history? |
11:37 | it's just an additional commit, right? | |
11:37 | paul_p | is our goal to keep history clear (you're right slef) or have something more readable ? |
11:38 | Brooke | but that's not what was decided |
11:38 | and I don't see a reason to deviate from new code meeting new standards | |
11:38 | kf | mbalmer: it will not be clear who wrote the line |
11:38 | paul_p | mbalmer, right. but git blame will say the perltidy author is to blame for almost everything |
11:38 | sekjal | if we keep our tidy commits and our functionality commits distinct |
11:38 | kf | mbalmer: only who last changed it |
11:38 | Brooke | and old code would eventually phase itself out |
11:38 | ColinC | paul_p in practice to compromise between the two |
11:38 | paul_p | ColinC, how ? |
11:38 | sekjal | and the commit message is "Tidying code" or the like |
11:38 | mbalmer | paul_p, a now I see the issue. |
11:38 | sekjal | we can easily skip over that patch in a git log, and look for the next functionality-based patch, when checking history |
11:38 | paul_p | I think so. |
11:39 | slef | ok, does anyone remember if git blame can drill down into history, or shall I test now? |
11:39 | kf | I think one suggestion was tidying the parts where your bug fix is |
11:39 | perhaps we could say - tidy the whole code block in that case? | |
11:39 | paul_p | does it mean we would/should/could go for a big perltidy one day ? |
11:39 | kf | not sure that's practical |
11:39 | Brooke | do we have anything to discuss that we didn't already agree upon two months ago? |
11:39 | mbalmer | is git blam so holy? I mean the history is still there... |
11:39 | magnuse | what's a block of code? |
11:39 | Brooke | is there anything new here? |
11:39 | paul_p | kf, you're right ! having a part tidied and a part not tidied is a nightmare very soon ! |
11:39 | kf | Brooke: the problem is, that it's not clear now - so people don't know what to do, we should clarify |
11:40 | thd | Brooke: This issue was left unresolved two months ago. |
11:40 | paul_p | s/is/will be/ |
11:40 | thd | Brooke: Tidy was resolved but not the issue about the rate of use. |
11:40 | kf | paul_p: didn't mean the whole file - not sure |
11:40 | mbalmer | I am all for clean, consisten code. |
11:40 | ColinC | if there was to be a big tidy choose your moment i.e. as part of the 3.8 release |
11:40 | Brooke | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]g,_5_October_2011 |
11:40 | mbalmer | consistent, even. |
11:40 | paul_p | mbalmer, everybody is for that ;-) |
11:40 | sekjal | git blame is handy, but it's just one tool in our debugging arsenal |
11:40 | kf | ColinC: that might be reasonable |
11:40 | similar to the template toolkit switch | |
11:40 | magnuse | +1 |
11:41 | paul_p | I agree for git blame is one tool ! |
11:41 | mbalmer | paul_p, hard to believe, because Perl code will never be nice ;) (scnr) |
11:41 | paul_p | ColinC++ |
11:41 | kf | if we do a global thing, we can check out the branch, but we should decide about it |
11:41 | paul_p | mbalmer is a troller !!! |
11:41 | slef | mbalmer: how do you find the history of a line otherwise? |
11:42 | paul_p | I like ColinC idea of a big perltidy for 3.8 |
11:42 | mbalmer | well at least I went through the pain of learning the language the last weeks, paul_p ;) |
11:42 | slef | mbalmer: reading all diffs for a file is not fun IMO. |
11:42 | mbalmer | slef, I agree. But you would have to do that, then |
11:42 | afaict. | |
11:43 | maybe git blame is to blame for not being able to go back further in the history of a file | |
11:43 | thd | Brooke: Clarifying: we voted to use Perl standard for tidy but deferred how to approach the issue of when to tidy code which is not being modified otherwise. |
11:43 | slef | paul_p: yes, a perltidy Day would make things a bit easier (if git blame on master is uninformative, run git blame on pre-perltidy-day tag). |
11:43 | paul_p | the more I think of it the more I like the idea of a bit perltidy in 3.8 ! |
11:44 | slef | mbalmer: I'm sure they'd welcome patches to git-blame. |
11:44 | Brooke | 12:09:26 <kf> I hve no strong opinion about the coding thing - make it consistent and choose one, change code not at once but bit by bit perhaps |
11:44 | 12:09:37 <paul_p_> kf++ | |
11:44 | clrh | I agree paul_p |
11:44 | Brooke | 12:09:43 <wizzyrea> kf++ |
11:44 | 12:09:47 <ColinC> kf+ | |
11:44 | 12:09:51 <slef> mtj: git format-patch -o .. 'HEAD^' | |
11:44 | 12:09:57 <wizzyrea> (and publish it somewhere) | |
11:44 | 12:09:58 <thd> kf++ | |
11:44 | I really bloody hate talking things over that are minutia twice. | |
11:44 | sekjal | putting it off until the end of this release cycle would make coding 3.8 easier |
11:44 | paul_p | sekjal, ??? |
11:45 | why is it easier ? | |
11:45 | magnuse | Brooke: it's not minutia imho, it's a question of what patches to fail qa... |
11:45 | thd | Brooke: Bit by bit had seemed to be the previous consensus but paul_p had raised problems with that approach on the mailing list. |
11:45 | Brooke | fine |
11:45 | we vote | |
11:45 | clrh | magnuse: rebase + perltidy does not seems really big ;) |
11:45 | paul_p | OK, i'll send a mail to koha-devel with this proposition. |
11:45 | Brooke | instead of talking about voting |
11:45 | clrh | ok Brooke |
11:45 | paul_p | OK for voting Brooke ! |
11:46 | Brooke | so the proposal is we handle things as we code ensuring that they're in line with perl tidy and other suggestions with the coding guidelines |
11:46 | +1 for little by little. | |
11:46 | ColinC | +1 |
11:46 | kf | clrh: will give conflicts perhaps? patches in the list now changing same files and so on? not sure |
11:46 | paul_p | -1 (i'm for big perltidy day) |
11:46 | mbalmer | there is one technical problem, however: |
11:46 | clrh | -1 (i'm for big perltidy day) |
11:46 | magnuse | +1 for bit by bit |
11:46 | mveron joined #koha | |
11:47 | kf | +1 for little by littel - will not hurt anything now |
11:47 | sekjal | paul_p: lets us differ the issue, focus on functionality for the next few months, then we can run scripts to do mass clean up after |
11:47 | mbalmer | some of the better editors cut whitespace off the line endings, and that leads to whitespace patches when you edit a file. |
11:47 | sekjal | maybe not any easier |
11:47 | thd | -1 big perltidy day timed with release cycle if possible |
11:47 | sekjal | seemed that way to my pre-coffee brain |
11:47 | * sekjal | drinks a cup now |
11:47 | paul_p | sekjal, that's also an option. |
11:47 | kf | little by little for me means = fix things where you fix your bug |
11:47 | not the whole file, the lines you are working on | |
11:48 | magnuse | kf++ |
11:48 | Brooke | I agree with that kf |
11:48 | paul_p | kf, NO NO NO ! |
11:48 | ColinC | kf++ |
11:48 | mbalmer | what if the editor clears up whitespace? |
11:48 | paul_p | that will be unreadable quickly ! |
11:48 | slef | git log --pretty=oneline -S'string to search for' # may help with seeing behind a perltidy |
11:48 | mbalmer | paul_p++ |
11:48 | kf | paul_p: I think for most things it will work quite ok - we already have it all mixed up |
11:48 | thd | My position for a big tidy day is not against using tidy when you modify a file as a separately labelled patch. |
11:48 | clrh | there is two little by little kf be carefull |
11:48 | kf | can't get more unreadable, only moving into one direction now instead of a lto of directions |
11:49 | Brooke | finish actual voting |
11:49 | :P | |
11:49 | mbalmer | err, so my editor question remains unanswered? |
11:49 | Joubu | -1 |
11:49 | julian_m | -1 |
11:49 | matts | -1 too |
11:50 | kf | perhaps I am misunderstood... I wanted to say write new things using perltidy, fix old when you work on that code, but not outside of the scope of your bug - like fixing the whole file? |
11:50 | because for now that will not hurt and we can still do a global day later with a release if that's agreed on | |
11:50 | paul_p | kf, i'm against this idea too ;-) |
11:50 | mbalmer | what can you do if your editor does clean up whitespace when saving the file? |
11:50 | thd | mbalmer: What do you mean by 'editor'? Who or what is the 'editor'? |
11:50 | mbalmer | text editor. |
11:50 | kf | mbalmer: deactivate it |
11:50 | Brooke | so it looks like little by little now fails. |
11:51 | mbalmer | kf, for sure not. |
11:51 | paul_p | kf, if you add a loop outside of existing code, you'll get a foreach that is perltidied & indented, and inside the loop, you may have a different indentation. unreadable quickly ! |
11:51 | Brooke | come up with an alternative and propose it, Paul. |
11:51 | thd | Brooke: We need to clarify the issue. |
11:51 | mbalmer | I am not only working on Koha, and otherwise whitespace at line endings is very much frowned upon |
11:51 | paul_p | Brooke, big perltidy day on 3.8 release |
11:51 | sekjal | git blame and git diff have "ignore whitespace" flags |
11:51 | kf | I think in that case perhaps have a follow up doing the perltidy for that part? |
11:51 | sekjal | so if it's just whitespace, we're fine |
11:51 | mbalmer | sekjal, ok, that settles it, thanks. |
11:52 | paul_p | sekjal, yep, but perltidy is also a matter of where to put {} and not only whitepsaces |
11:52 | sekjal | ah |
11:52 | mbalmer | it's only WS at line ends, *NOT* perltidy or so. text structure gets not changed. |
11:52 | thd | Brooke: Did we just vote never to use tidy for old files until tidy day or when modifying otherwise and a big tidy day? |
11:52 | Brooke | vote: Big perltidyday on 3.8 release |
11:52 | paul_p | +1 (already said ;-) ) |
11:52 | mbalmer | +1 |
11:52 | Brooke | #info Voting on perltidy |
11:52 | clrh | +1 |
11:52 | thd | +1 |
11:52 | Joubu | =1 |
11:52 | +1 | |
11:53 | Waylon | +1 |
11:53 | Brooke | NO EQUALS! RAWR |
11:53 | julian_m | +1 |
11:53 | sekjal | 0 |
11:53 | kf | 0 |
11:53 | jwagner | 0 |
11:54 | ColinC | 0 RM's prerogative tho |
11:54 | paul_p | 1PM here, my stomash is asking for some food ;-) |
11:54 | slef | 0 |
11:54 | thd | paul_p: Did we just vote never to use tidy for old files until big tidy day or when otherwise modifying a file and also a big tidy day? |
11:54 | sekjal | we need to clearly lay out the pros and cons for this change |
11:54 | incremental vs. all-at-once | |
11:55 | mbalmer | paul_p, same TZ here, same problem, too ;) |
11:55 | thd | sekjal: I agree that the vote was a little hasty |
11:55 | kf | perhaps something to think about for the global change: you can't compare files between different versions then and patches will not apply backwards |
11:55 | paul_p | yes, but many of us are hungry ;-) |
11:55 | sekjal | if perltidy is going to give us more than just whitespace changes on single lines |
11:55 | davidnind left #koha | |
11:55 | sekjal | then we're not going to be able to use a lot of our git tools effectively anymore |
11:56 | git diff and git blame, for one | |
11:56 | Brooke | thd we voted to have a big perltidy day on 3.8 release |
11:56 | kf | yes |
11:56 | but perhaps we need to think more about it | |
11:56 | to see all pro and cons | |
11:56 | that have not been brought up here | |
11:56 | sekjal | would the tidy be backported to 3.6.x? |
11:56 | thd | sekjal: Brooke was anxious to vote on something rather than rediscuss the old topic :) |
11:56 | sekjal++ | |
11:56 | kf | sekjal: I think it does more, breaking lines differently |
11:57 | sekjal | my understanding of perltidy is insufficient for me to make an informed choice |
11:57 | kf | same here |
11:57 | paul_p | OK, let's say = i send a mail to koha-devel to say "we propose the option of a big perltidy day, let's argue the cons of this idea if there are" |
11:57 | asaurat | same for me, never used it |
11:57 | mbalmer | so maybe we should revert that vote? and give us a bit more time? |
11:57 | thd | kf: Would applying tidy to the old release solve the problem for patching old versions? |
11:58 | mbalmer | paul_p, sane idea. |
11:58 | kf | thd: not sure - but I think we should find out before doing something drastic |
11:58 | jwagner | paul_p, +1 |
11:58 | Brooke | why is this in meeting and not on devel? |
11:59 | kf | ok |
11:59 | so for now | |
11:59 | ColinC | kf: but the patches in the in queue will be made against old formatted code |
11:59 | jwagner | Because meetings are the place where we're supposed to discuss things of concern to the project? |
11:59 | sekjal | Brooke: heated discussions are more fun in realtime? |
11:59 | thd | Brooke: It was on the koha-devel list, however, we have gone rather quickly here. |
11:59 | sekjal++ :) | |
11:59 | Brooke | jwagner: this is relevant in general, not in minutia. |
11:59 | mbalmer | I have to leave now, next meeting, grr, so cul. and whatever you still vote here: I am all for it! ttyl! |
12:00 | Brooke | there's no reason to hash minutia at a meeting v over the listserv. |
12:00 | thd | Brooke: The issue had been raised on koha-devel and then forgotten over the course of KohaCon. |
12:00 | paul_p | Brooke, maybe we should go forward ? i'm not sure we will find a consensus. This is a trolling topic... |
12:00 | mbalmer left #koha | |
12:00 | Brooke | I would say |
12:01 | thd | paul_p: Did we just vote never to use tidy for old files until big tidy day or when otherwise modifying a file and also a big tidy day? |
12:01 | Brooke | keep hashing it out over devel |
12:01 | until you have something that you can vote a simple yes or no to | |
12:01 | even if it's a little yes or no | |
12:01 | as in 4 spaces or 8 | |
12:01 | and THEN bring that to the meeting | |
12:01 | else | |
12:01 | we have 20 people talking about 20 different pet to dos | |
12:01 | and we have another glorious 2 hour meeting. | |
12:01 | paul_p | thd, I don't see how we can practically use a small bit by small bit. |
12:01 | thd | Brooke: 4 spaces or 8 is resolved unless someone really wants to raise the issue again. |
12:01 | Brooke | with no actual progress |
12:02 | thd it was an example of an actionable item. | |
12:02 | paul_p | thd, no, NOONE want to raise the issue. |
12:02 | ColinC | thd: please no |
12:02 | paul_p | or i'll kick him ! |
12:02 | * paul_p | get his gun... |
12:02 | thd | paul_p: yes no one of course :) |
12:02 | kmkale joined #koha | |
12:02 | paul_p | ;-) |
12:02 | kf | paul_p: now you scareme |
12:03 | sekjal | if anyone was going to be pulling iron, I thought it would be one of the Yanks |
12:03 | thd | paul_p: So we just voted to only tidy new files until big tidy day? |
12:03 | Brooke | paul, you need to get your sabre or foil, and then we can settle this like men. :P |
12:03 | paul_p | thd, I would say yes. |
12:03 | kf | seems so |
12:03 | Brooke | we didn't but I will pretend that we did :P |
12:04 | kf | ok for me |
12:04 | and big day still to be decided | |
12:04 | Brooke | thought big day was timed with the 3.8 release, but we'll leave that to paul and later. |
12:04 | paul_p | Brooke, agreed. |
12:04 | Brooke | so |
12:04 | thd | paul_p: Ok, so we can continue to discuss the issue of applying tidied patches to the possibly untidied current release on the mailing list. |
12:05 | Brooke | #topic Actions from December |
12:05 | Topic for #koha is now Actions from December | |
12:05 | Brooke | once again the only thing I see there is KohaCon 2013 |
12:05 | any new stuff on that? | |
12:06 | slef | did the "how to run tests" get updated? I'm elsewhere in the wiki |
12:06 | nothing new from me on KohaCon 2013. All replies were on-list. | |
12:07 | Brooke | #topic Miscellaneous |
12:07 | Topic for #koha is now Miscellaneous | |
12:07 | Brooke | I wanted to give a shout out for the Koha Academy project |
12:08 | we're attempting to get a proper distance education framework in place | |
12:08 | so if you're good at constructing a syllabus or other such things | |
12:08 | please contact kmkale | |
12:08 | slef | #link http://lists.katipo.co.nz/publ[…]ember/031479.html |
12:08 | sekjal | I've got an announcement that the Koha community may find relevant |
12:08 | Brooke | just like if you volunteered to teach different stuff at the last KohaCon, we will prolly be conning you into volunteering :) |
12:08 | slef | actually not sure all replies were on-list. I'll find them and put them to a page. |
12:09 | Brooke | go for it sekjal :) |
12:09 | and thanks slef. | |
12:09 | sekjal | at the end of this month, I'll be leaving ByWater Solutions to work at the library at the University of Massachusetts |
12:10 | I will continue to be part of the Koha community | |
12:10 | but, as UMass is not a Koha institution, Koha will no longer be my primary workday focus | |
12:11 | I intend to finish out my term as QAM, should the community approve | |
12:11 | thd | sekjal: Is UMass considering working on Koha at any future point? |
12:11 | jwagner | sekjal, good luck with the new job! |
12:11 | thd | s/working on/using/ |
12:11 | paul_p | sad news. (side effect: you'll miss the European hackfest) |
12:11 | sekjal | thd: they're part of a 5 college consortium, so it will take a lot of effort to move them, but I will apply what pressure I can |
12:11 | slef | sekjal: sorry to hear that, yes please and good luck with the new work |
12:12 | kf | good like sekjal |
12:12 | hm good luck... | |
12:12 | paul_p | about the QAM role, my position is: if you can promize /think you'll be able to spend something like 8 hours a week on QA things, then go for it. Otherwise, we should ask for another volunteer |
12:14 | sekjal | I think that, yes, I will be able to dedicate about that much personal time to the job |
12:14 | slef | next item? |
12:14 | Brooke | UMass is a great place to work, so look forward to it :) |
12:14 | kf | sekjal++ |
12:14 | sekjal | thankfully, I'm not alone on the QA team this term, so I won't act as a bottleneck for everything |
12:14 | paul_p | so i'm OK with this idea |
12:14 | thd | sekjal++ |
12:14 | Brooke | hang on lemme post some stuff I said in whisper to main |
12:15 | Brooke: yeah I need to really crystalise what I have in mind for things | |
12:15 | [07:10am] Brooke: the meetings traditionally were the place to vote | |
12:15 | [07:10am] Brooke: however, we've done things like KohaCon outside the meeting | |
12:15 | [07:10am] Brooke: so | |
12:15 | [07:10am] Brooke: we need to figure out what the ultimate forum is | |
12:15 | [07:11am] Brooke: and we also need to streamline how topics are mentioned | |
12:15 | [07:11am] Brooke: I'm guessing folks would prefer an hour a meeting | |
12:15 | [07:11am] Brooke: to like 2 and a half. | |
12:15 | [07:11am] Brooke: it's possible if we do more work in small groups or hash things out over the list or irc much better | |
12:15 | [07:11am] Brooke: and then bring something that can have a yes or no vote to the meeting | |
12:15 | [07:12am] Brooke: or be put into a survey and sent to the list | |
12:15 | [07:12am] Brooke: it seems to me that things that are overarching and affect the spirit of the project | |
12:15 | [07:12am] Brooke: are always going to lend themselves to IRC | |
12:15 | [07:12am] Brooke: where smallish things make sense for a ballot. | |
12:15 | slef | I would suggest timed agenda items again. |
12:15 | paul_p | timed++ |
12:16 | (clrh always uses timebox !) | |
12:16 | slef | If the chair doesn't mind having permission to break our legs^Wdiscussions to keep to time? |
12:16 | Brooke | it depends |
12:16 | chairing is delightfully dynamic | |
12:16 | paul_p | i'm for it ! |
12:17 | Brooke | I tend to impose a time limit if I think summat is gonna be controversial AND beaten to death.. |
12:17 | paul_p | ++ |
12:17 | Brooke | I'll keep thinking on things |
12:17 | slef | traditionally (hah, that old trick!), anyone in a meeting can call for the vote to be held or to move on to the next item... but times on the agenda reduces the surprise for people who don't know such things. |
12:17 | thd | I think that things should take as long as they take but encouragement should be given to having good discussions outside the monthly meeting in our various fora. |
12:18 | paul_p | agreed (and TZ things improve this need) |
12:19 | thd | I think that social pressure such as are we taking too long here is a better solution than strict timing. |
12:19 | slef | thd: sure. Get a room/workgroup/submeeting is also a valid request, usually combined with a vote or budge. |
12:19 | I think that social pressure is insufficient here. You can't see people fidget on IRC. | |
12:20 | thd | We could time an are we taking too long here prompt with the possibility that the answer is no. |
12:20 | Brooke | meh |
12:20 | anyway | |
12:20 | #topic Time and Date of next meeting | |
12:20 | Topic for #koha is now Time and Date of next meeting | |
12:20 | Brooke | Feb 1 or Feb 8? |
12:21 | slef | 8 Feb? |
12:21 | Brooke | fine with me |
12:21 | * slef | opens the bidding |
12:21 | Brooke | any heavy objections to Feb 8? |
12:21 | thd | +1 |
12:21 | +1 8th Feb. | |
12:22 | asaurat | no objection |
12:22 | ColinC | either ok |
12:22 | slef | Is it 0200 UTC? |
12:22 | paul_p | OK for me |
12:22 | Brooke | 2 utc yes |
12:22 | paul_p | 3AM for me... wonderfull meeting time ;-) |
12:22 | Brooke | 10 > 2 > 18 is the cycle. |
12:23 | paul: guess what time it is in NZ right now :P | |
12:23 | slef | 1 hour meeting aim? |
12:23 | Brooke | not nec |
12:23 | but I'm gonna say think about what you want to say given the agenda before hand | |
12:24 | and if it's not on the agenda, stick it there. | |
12:24 | so vote | |
12:24 | 8 February 2 UTC | |
12:24 | slef | +1 |
12:24 | jwagner | +1 |
12:24 | ColinC | +1 |
12:26 | paul_p | +1 |
12:26 | thd | =1 |
12:26 | +1 | |
12:27 | sekjal | +! |
12:28 | Brooke | #info next meeting is 8 Feb 0200 UTC |
12:28 | #endmeeting | |
12:28 | Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.6.2 & 3.4.7 & 3.2.11 are now available ; Next General IRC Meeting 4 January 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0 | http://www.koha-community.org | http://paste.koha-community.org | |
12:28 | huginn | Meeting ended Wed Jan 4 12:28:28 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
12:28 | Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]-01-04-10.00.html | |
12:28 | Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]2-01-04-10.00.txt | |
12:28 | Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]04-10.00.log.html | |
12:29 | Waylon | okay.. meeting done? i can ask a completely irrelevant question? |
12:31 | slef | go for it |
12:31 | wahanui: KohaCon12? | |
12:31 | wahanui | i haven't a clue, slef |
12:31 | slef | wahanui: KohaCon12 is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ategory:KohaCon12 |
12:31 | wahanui | OK, slef. |
12:32 | Waylon | okay. new system administrator for mandumah.com... has proposed Amazon cloud computing. How does it work? |
12:32 | slef | and I just updated that with sign-up lists for those who want to express interest pre-registration |
12:32 | Waylon: nobody knows but search wiki or kohacon10 papers for how to get Koha running on it. | |
12:32 | (it was presented at kohacon10 hackfest I know) | |
12:33 | Waylon | sounds like a headache.. |
12:33 | slef | benefits are scalability AIUI |
12:33 | and possibly resilience but Amazon don't have an unblemished record on that | |
12:34 | Waylon | cause right now, we have two replicaiton paths. one going from office to servers.. the other, going between the servers., not including the office. |
12:34 | slef | and I doubt Koha is written to take advantage of all Amazon's resilience features |
12:34 | but I could be wrong. I have strange feelings towards Amazon so I don't think I'm using Koha there at all. | |
12:36 | thd | Amazon should be regarded with extreme mistrust for non-technical reasons. |
12:36 | Waylon | please explain, thd. |
12:37 | ColinC | And look at their technical stuff I found I knew less after I read it |
12:37 | thd | Amazon has a very bad habit of re-interpreting or changing there terms of use for many of there services which may disallow what had been common use in the past. |
12:37 | Waylon | we are a digital library archive, a db of 3 gb.. and storage requirements of something like 100 gb or more for pdf files. |
12:39 | thd | Waylon: The problem to which I am referring is mostly a problem for obtaining bibliographic data from Amazon but what Amazon has most recently named Amazon Web Services should be regarded with suspicion. |
12:40 | Waylon | please continue. |
12:41 | thd | Waylon: Relying exclusively upon non-free software or non-free data sources is a hazard which leaves a vulnerability to any service discontinuity. |
12:43 | Waylon: If you are wholly dependent upon one company for something critical, you are merely waiting for a big problem if there is a sudden change of policy, service, or price from that company. | |
12:44 | Waylon | modifying koha to work with amazon instances, then suddenly, they cannot be run on them... would be difficult to retool back to normal OS, your saying? |
12:45 | thd | Waylon: However, I have looked for free software systems offering the same level of service as Amazon Web Services and not found a comparable level of flexibility and control for significant dynamically changing use. |
12:46 | mveron left #koha | |
12:46 | thd | Waylon: Using anything is fine as long as you can change to something else relatively easily if necessary. |
12:47 | * Waylon | nods. "Would of thought the two vm's on two bare metal boxes would of been sufficient. but the sysadmin sounds like hes tooling up for massive expansion. |
12:47 | thd | Waylon: The example of Wikileaks brief use of Amazon Web Services should be instructive even if that may be a somewhat special case. |
12:50 | nengard joined #koha | |
12:51 | Brooke | hey nicole :) |
12:51 | thd | Waylon: My understanding is that the pricing of Amazon only works favourably in comparison to simpler and less dynamically changeable alternatives when the use of the service has large unpredictable variable use patterns. |
12:51 | s/Amazon/AWS/ | |
12:54 | Waylon: The issue about when AWS is occasionally presented on various web forums with real numbers for various scenarios in which AWS often loses. | |
12:55 | s/when/when to use/ | |
12:56 | Waylon | i guess the first step to understanding all this, is understanding what the sysadmin actually means. |
12:57 | nengard | OMG it's freezying here!!! |
12:57 | @wunder 19030 | |
12:57 | huginn | nengard: The current temperature in Highland Park, Levittown, Pennsylvania is -9.9°C (7:53 AM EST on January 04, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: -18.0°C. Windchill: -15.0°C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Rising). |
12:57 | nengard | :( |
12:57 | hiya Brooke | |
12:57 | thd | Waylon: Your sysadmin may have more things in mind than merely library automation systems. |
12:57 | nengard | and al |
12:57 | and all! | |
12:58 | Waylon | there isn't any info on amazon, on the koha wiki |
12:58 | thd | Waylon: The overall use may favour AWS for some price or convenience factor. |
13:00 | Waylon: Koha can be configured to use Amazon for cover images and reviews in the display of bibliographic records. | |
13:02 | jcamins | Was there any conclusion about the Koha namespace? |
13:02 | * jcamins | skimmed the minutes, and didn't see any consensus. |
13:02 | thd | Waylon: In my extreme overwork on non-Koha stuff I have neglected code which I have been given to use Amazon as part of an automation in cataloguing. |
13:03 | tcohen joined #koha | |
13:03 | thd | jcamins: What sort of consensus would you like? |
13:03 | jcamins | (P.S. sorry about missing the meeting... I completely forgot, thanks to buying an apartment:) |
13:03 | * Waylon | nods. |
13:03 | jcamins | thd: are we changing to the Koha namespace? |
13:03 | nengard | Do we have a date for kohacon12 yet? |
13:03 | jcamins | Or are we going to just talk about it for another five years and pollute C4 further? |
13:03 | Waylon | well.. we know that koha can work on EC2's... so sayith liblime... but how that works.. no idea. |
13:03 | jcamins | Waylon: Koha works great on EC2. |
13:04 | Waylon | how? |
13:04 | * jcamins | runs Koha on EC2. |
13:04 | Waylon | hwo does the seperate instances communicate? |
13:04 | thd | jcamins: The consensus was that there is disagreement over the approach taken in an old patch for abstraction and BibLibre are preparing a proof of concept. |
13:04 | jcamins | Waylon: the same way they would with any other divided system. |
13:04 | thd: ah. Thanks. | |
13:05 | thd | jcamins: Discussion on the mailing list. |
13:05 | jcamins | thd: Thanks. |
13:06 | thd | jcamins: The important result from the meeting is to encourage more discussion on the mailing list and at all hours on IRC to allow meetings to be run more quickly with as many participants as we have now. |
13:06 | nengard: Yes we have dates. | |
13:06 | nengard | good! what are they? |
13:07 | * thd | checks some logs |
13:07 | Brooke | KohaCon2012? |
13:07 | info Conference Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June | |
13:07 | wahanui is so much more useless than zoia. | |
13:07 | Waylon | mysql replication relies on a max number of nodes due to insert interval and offset. how does that work with EC2? |
13:07 | tcohen | hi #koha |
13:08 | nengard | thanks Brooke |
13:08 | Brooke | wahanui: KohaCon2012? |
13:08 | wahanui | brooke: i don't know |
13:08 | Brooke | useless. |
13:08 | wahanui: KohaCon2012 is Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June | |
13:08 | wahanui | OK, Brooke. |
13:08 | Brooke | KohaCon2012? |
13:08 | wahanui | rumour has it KohaCon2012 is Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June |
13:09 | jcamins | Waylon: oh, I haven't been running anything large enough to have more than a master/slave setup with MySQL. |
13:09 | Waylon: I don't believe LLEK does anything more complex, either. | |
13:09 | Waylon | so, youve only had two nodes, in circular replication? |
13:10 | jcamins | No, one read-write master, one read-only slave. |
13:10 | Waylon: I work with small, highly-specialized collections. | |
13:10 | thd | jcamins: What is the purpose of the read only slave? |
13:11 | Waylon | hmm? so how does a slave instance modify the database? |
13:11 | jcamins | Waylon: it doesn't modify the database. |
13:11 | thd: hot backup. | |
13:11 | Waylon | hot backup? How come you don't use innodb and singletransaction dump instead? |
13:12 | ooooo | |
13:12 | sorry | |
13:12 | hot meaning running. | |
13:12 | failsafe. | |
13:12 | thd | jcamins: I hope that you also do proper cold backups and not merely replication. |
13:12 | Waylon | why run this setup in EC2? |
13:13 | jcamins | thd: of course. |
13:13 | Waylon: it's easier to scale up/down. | |
13:14 | kf | jcamins: can I perhaps bribe you into looking at 5369? |
13:14 | jcamins | bug 5369 |
13:14 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5369 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, ASSIGNED , se queries with paranthesis fail |
13:14 | tcohen | anyone from biblibre available? |
13:14 | kf | I think I did it the way I did after consulting with you |
13:14 | but I don't remember the reasoning | |
13:14 | :( | |
13:14 | jcamins | Is that the one you meant? |
13:14 | Waylon | jcamins, scale up? |
13:15 | jcamins | Waylon: yeah, I can add more clients/servers easily. |
13:15 | Waylon | how is this different from Xen XCP? |
13:16 | jcamins | Waylon: it probably isn't, but I am using EC-2. |
13:16 | :P | |
13:16 | Waylon: don't forget that we don't all have data centers. | |
13:16 | And between EC-2 and Rackspace, EC-2 works a lot better. | |
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13:19 | thd | jcamins: One difference is that Xen is a portable free software solution, which Amazon is not. |
13:19 | jcamins | thd: yes, but does Xen come with servers? |
13:19 | That are as affordable as Amazon's? | |
13:19 | NateC joined #koha | |
13:20 | jcamins | (see exhibit A, some of us don't have our own data centers) |
13:20 | thd | jcamins: Price advantage for EC2 is highly use case dependent. |
13:21 | * Waylon | 's work uses two bare metal servers inside softlayer. |
13:21 | Waylon | then VM's within that. |
13:21 | jcamins | If I had a data center, I'd do that too. |
13:23 | Waylon | Amazon Relational Database Service .. means a db server outside of the EC2 instances? |
13:24 | thd | jcamins: I also do not have my own data centre, however, I have reasonable virtual hosting without the degree of quick scalability provided by EC2. |
13:24 | jcamins | Waylon: don't use it. It performs poorly. |
13:24 | thd: I'm satisfied with my current arrangement. | |
13:25 | Waylon | is there a way to automatically increase the number of servers inside a circular mysql circle? |
13:25 | jcamins | Waylon: not to my knowledge. |
13:25 | Waylon | ... s/circle/replication |
13:25 | thd | jcamins: I am merely scared every time I read an Amazon terms of service agreement. |
13:25 | Waylon | right.. so its all text editing or global sets. |
13:28 | thd | jcamins: My concern about Amazon is many instances of behaving in a manner hostile to the interests of their customers mostly outside the scope of EC2. |
13:29 | jcamins | paul_p: around? |
13:31 | paul_p: if you happen to see this message, which branch should I look at for the latest solr code? | |
13:31 | * jcamins | has to get ready to head into the city. On-site today. |
13:36 | paul_p | jcamins_away, i'm here ! |
13:36 | jcamins_away, look at dev/solr | |
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13:43 | tcohen | rangi: if one was to invalidate something in memcached (something big as a preferences hash) |
13:43 | is it better to flush_all (O(1)) or to just delete the key | |
13:43 | ? | |
13:43 | kf | jcamins++ thx for commenting |
13:47 | tcohen | any good soul around? to signoff on bug 6193 so I can safely work on top of that? |
13:47 | Brooke | kf++ |
13:47 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6193 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , Use memcached cache koha-conf.xml configuration variables |
13:47 | Brooke | I'm afraid my soul is beyond redemption, Sir. |
13:49 | kf | tcohen: rangi is probably asleep almost 3 am in nz |
13:55 | tcohen | oops |
13:57 | Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.6.2 & 3.4.7 & 3.2.11 are now available ; Next General IRC Meeting 8 February at 2:00 UTC+0 | http://www.koha-community.org | http://paste.koha-community.org | |
13:57 | oleonard | Correct? |
13:57 | kf | hi oleonard :) |
13:58 | * oleonard | is finishing reading the meeting log |
13:58 | is sorry he wasn't there to vote against sekjal changing jobs | |
13:59 | talljoy joined #koha | |
13:59 | kf | engard: still around? :) |
13:59 | hm nengard | |
14:00 | slef | KohaCon12? |
14:00 | wahanui | KohaCon12 is, like, http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ategory:KohaCon12 |
14:00 | nengard | hi |
14:00 | wahanui | hello, nengard |
14:00 | nengard | whatcha need? |
14:00 | oleonard | KohaCon2012? |
14:00 | wahanui | KohaCon2012 is Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June |
14:00 | kf | needing nothing |
14:00 | slef | oleonard: that's not its name :-/ |
14:00 | oleonard | slef: Wasn't me! :P |
14:00 | slef | wahanui: forget KohaCon2012 |
14:00 | wahanui | slef: I forgot kohacon2012 |
14:01 | slef | wahanui: KohaCon12 is also Conference Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June |
14:01 | wahanui | okay, slef. |
14:01 | slef | KohaCon12? |
14:01 | wahanui | KohaCon12 is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ategory:KohaCon12 or Conference Tue 5 June 2012 to Thu 7th, Hackfest Sat 9th June-Mon 11th June |
14:04 | * mtj | waves from nz :) |
14:04 | mtj | 3am here :p |
14:04 | Brooke | kohacon2012 |
14:04 | kohacon2012? | |
14:04 | now it's dumb again. | |
14:04 | Waylon | Kohacon2012? |
14:04 | Brooke | information 2 places > information 1 place. |
14:05 | slef | kohacon2012 is a typo for kohacon12 |
14:05 | oleonard | Can wahanui do "see also?" |
14:05 | Brooke | it's an alternate title |
14:05 | cross references make for cross readers. | |
14:05 | JesseM joined #koha | |
14:05 | slef | I feel it's a mistake. |
14:06 | Brooke | tell me if you feel that way in a hundred years :P |
14:06 | mtj | sorry i missed the meeting all, will have a read of the logs now.... |
14:06 | slef | Brooke: then it can add 2100 one year ;-) |
14:06 | Waylon | heres hoping we'll be here in 100 years. |
14:06 | Brooke | amazed you're still up mtj |
14:07 | slef | consistency with kohacon10 is better than futureproofing IMO |
14:07 | Brooke | if you're going to harp on consistency, it used to just be kohacon :P |
14:07 | slef | also I think others were using KohaCon12 before me |
14:08 | Brooke | there are instances of both in documentation |
14:08 | so | |
14:08 | no reason to get all bent out of shape. | |
14:09 | slef | I'm not. I was just quietly deprecating the lesser-used one. |
14:09 | * slef | shrugs |
14:09 | mtj | Brooke: i was asleep... but now im up and perky |
14:23 | trea joined #koha | |
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14:27 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
14:27 | libsysguy | morning #Koha |
14:28 | sekjal | morning, libsysguy |
14:28 | libsysguy | had two realizations today...cait and kf are the same person and I haven't seen druthb in forever |
14:28 | morning sekjal | |
14:32 | nengard | libsysguy we keep druthb super busy :) |
14:34 | wizzyrea joined #koha | |
14:35 | * wizzyrea | waves |
14:37 | sekjal | morning, wizzyrea |
14:37 | kf | libsysguy: I thought I told you that |
14:40 | libsysguy: seriously, you didn't know? | |
14:45 | ago43 joined #koha | |
14:46 | maximep joined #koha | |
14:46 | wizzyrea | alright, bbiab |
14:57 | libsysguy | yeah seriously kf |
14:57 | i was all like 0_0 | |
14:57 | kf | I am sorry |
14:57 | I was quite sure you did know | |
14:57 | libsysguy | hehe its cool |
14:58 | and nengard why do you have to lock up druthb | |
14:58 | kf | like really really sure I told you sometime... heh |
14:58 | libsysguy | you probably did |
14:58 | and i am just dense | |
14:58 | nengard | i'm not locking her up!! |
14:58 | she's locking herself up so she can focus :) | |
14:59 | kf | libsysguy: that wasnot what I meant! |
14:59 | libsysguy | hehe nengard |
14:59 | kf I know :p | |
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15:15 | magnuse | http://boston.cbslocal.com/201[…]-from-5-year-old/ |
15:15 | wizzyrea | heh |
15:15 | magnuse | maybe koha should have a "send the police to this patron" button? |
15:17 | libsysguy | ^^ |
15:17 | magnuse | integrated with the police's api, of course |
15:17 | wizzyrea | a report would do |
15:17 | magnuse | or a cronjob? |
15:17 | libsysguy | cronjob for sure |
15:21 | NateC left #koha | |
15:22 | NateC joined #koha | |
15:23 | NateC joined #koha | |
15:24 | jcamins | paul_p: thanks. |
15:25 | nengard | facebook friends help me pick: http://www.facebook.com/nengar[…]s/246280375440935 |
15:25 | jcamins | kf: well, I tried to clarify. |
15:28 | What is Matthias Meusburger's nick? | |
15:28 | magnuse | matts, i think? |
15:28 | jcamins | matts++ # bug 7400 *ROCKS*!!!!!!!! |
15:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7400 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Add auto-completion on auth_finder |
15:28 | matts | ^^ |
15:29 | Nice :) | |
15:29 | nengard | I love it! |
15:29 | magnuse | sounds really useful! |
15:29 | * jcamins | will test it and sign off when he can. |
15:29 | jcamins | But matts deserved some karma up front, too. |
15:30 | matts | thanx jcamins :) |
15:30 | hopefully the testing part will be smooth | |
15:31 | maximep | curious about why using yui instead of jquery ? |
15:32 | matts | there already was yui autocompletion in koha |
15:32 | maximep | ah ok, didn't know what it used |
15:33 | matts | I don't exactly remember where, right now... But it was there :) |
15:33 | jcamins | maximep: I think oleonard is working on a way to change it over to jQuery but it isn't done yet. |
15:33 | * oleonard | is |
15:33 | matts | that could be nice... |
15:34 | oleonard | Bug 5481 |
15:34 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5481 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Replace YUI JS libraries with Jquery UI |
15:34 | oleonard | STILL waiting for the jQueryUI menu widget to come out of alpha. |
15:35 | maximep | I wish jqueryui would care more about accessibility ;/ |
15:35 | kf | oleonard: perhaps we should give up on that? :( |
15:35 | nengard | there is a bug for this: when you click the invoice number on the acq search results it always says 'no items received' even though you have already received items |
15:35 | oleonard | kf: Maybe so |
15:35 | wizzyrea | or - what's keeping it alpha? |
15:36 | kf | maximep: :( are you working with a cutomer where this is a problem? |
15:36 | wizzyrea | maybe we should help them out (if that's even possible) |
15:36 | oleonard | maximep: In what way? |
15:36 | kf | because I have a library with a blind staff member... and I am interested to know about known problems |
15:36 | or we have a new library... where this will be important | |
15:36 | I got a report that the pull down menus are a problem, like edit on staff detail | |
15:37 | wizzyrea | those menus are a problem for selenium testing too, iirc |
15:39 | (though that particular problem isn't a huge one for day-to-day_ | |
15:39 | ) | |
15:40 | * wizzyrea | pokes anyone for a sign off on 7388 patch 1 |
15:40 | jcamins | bug 7388 |
15:40 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7388 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, wizzyrea, ASSIGNED , rounded corners for side menus in staff client |
15:40 | wizzyrea | it's teensy |
15:40 | * jcamins | pokes back. |
15:40 | jcamins | Bother. This isn't in Uzbek. |
15:42 | * wizzyrea | also pokes regarding bug 7157 |
15:42 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7157 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, wizzyrea, ASSIGNED , Improve the j2a.pl cronjob |
15:42 | wizzyrea | you can't tell me people aren't clamoring for that. |
15:42 | slef | remind me what j2a is |
15:42 | wizzyrea | kid -> adult patron category transitions |
15:43 | juvenile 2 adult, technically | |
15:43 | I didn't name it :P | |
15:43 | * oleonard | is waiting for a good scientist -> hulk patron category transition script |
15:43 | * wizzyrea | laughs |
15:44 | wizzyrea | @quote add *oleonard is waiting for a good scientist -> hulk patron category transition script |
15:44 | huginn | wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #175 added. |
15:44 | jcamins | Good news! This is in Bukharan! |
15:44 | wizzyrea | what in heavens name are you working on |
15:44 | maximep | kf: we have an accessibility expert working here and it will soon become one of our priorities |
15:44 | jcamins | Bad news: there's no language code for Bukharan. |
15:45 | maximep | but it will probably be opac only |
15:45 | jcamins | wizzyrea: cataloging. |
15:45 | kf | maximep: that's good news! |
15:45 | wizzyrea | woot maximep that's great :) |
15:47 | kf | maximep: it's a start :) |
15:48 | wizzyrea | maximep++ it's a good place to do work on koha |
15:53 | sekjal | anyone in a UNIMARC library able to test bug 3216? |
15:53 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3216 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, frederic, NEW , UNIMARC author facets |
15:53 | sekjal | getting the first patch committed will open the door to bug 4255 |
15:53 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4255 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Add item type to facet list |
15:54 | jcamins | kf: could you address marcelr's latest comment? |
15:55 | kf | I will try to do so tonight |
15:55 | jcamins | Thanks. :) |
15:56 | kf | team work :) |
15:57 | oleonard | the discussion of Bug 4274 versus Bug 3651 would be improved by some concrete descriptions of the security implications |
15:57 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4274 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Cart now requires login before emailing contents |
15:57 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3651 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Require patron login to send shelves and baskets | |
15:58 | maximep | kf: but wait, do you really know a blind library staff member ? That seems so weird to me for some reason :S |
15:59 | wizzyrea | oleonard: can the facility be used to spam people? |
15:59 | (that would be my main concern) | |
15:59 | probably what we need | |
15:59 | oleonard | That is the assertion made in the original bug report |
15:59 | wizzyrea | is something that detects more than x number of list sends in y timeframe |
16:00 | and disallows them for z duration | |
16:00 | (for logged out users) | |
16:00 | (logged in users can send as many as they want) | |
16:00 | NateC joined #koha | |
16:02 | wizzyrea | I think logged out users should be able to send, but they should be limited somehow, is what I'm getting at. |
16:02 | 10 lists in 15 minutes? | |
16:02 | a bot would easily surpass that, a human might have trouble. | |
16:03 | sekjal | any numbers should be syspref (or config file) controllable, instead of hardcoded |
16:03 | wizzyrea | right but you've gotta pick the defaults :) |
16:04 | reiveune | bye |
16:04 | reiveune left #koha | |
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16:12 | * tcohen | has made his first use of git-bz attach :-D |
16:12 | wizzyrea | tcohen++ don't you adore it |
16:12 | there are few things that make life as much better as git-bz | |
16:12 | tcohen | wizzyrea: this is heaven |
16:13 | kf | tcohen+ |
16:13 | tcohen++ | |
16:13 | * oleonard | still hesitates to use git-bz attach, not sure why |
16:13 | jcamins | oleonard: it's wonderful! |
16:13 | wizzyrea | oh my it is SO great. |
16:13 | the only thing I've found that it doesn't work well for | |
16:13 | is binary attachments | |
16:13 | * tcohen | only needs learning how to change bug dependencies |
16:14 | kf | maximep: I don't think it's weird - I think it's awesome :) |
16:14 | wizzyrea | maximep: what kind of disabilities are you trying to accommodate for? |
16:14 | * wizzyrea | is just curious |
16:14 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6000] Performance enhancements for C4::Context and C4::Languages <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6000> |
16:14 | kf | tcohen: have you seen that you can obsolte patches in one step with attaching a new? |
16:14 | tcohen | nope |
16:14 | wizzyrea | ^^ this has changed my life |
16:14 | tcohen | THAT would be heaven |
16:14 | kf | hehe |
16:14 | you have to be a bit fast | |
16:14 | wizzyrea | I don't even care that you have to be fast |
16:14 | kf | but it's doable |
16:15 | git bz attach -e <bugnumber> HEAD | |
16:15 | then | |
16:15 | uncomment the attachement line | |
16:15 | wizzyrea | uncomment Obsoletes |
16:15 | kf | yep |
16:15 | you only have to be a bit fast | |
16:15 | wizzyrea | for all the patches you want to obsolete |
16:15 | kf | or it will time out |
16:15 | wizzyrea | 20 seconds I think it is |
16:15 | kf | but it works very well |
16:16 | wizzyrea | if only you could change the patch status there too, it would be like, angels singing and throwing little pickles |
16:16 | jcamins | Pickles? |
16:16 | wizzyrea | have you never seen real genius? |
16:16 | jcamins | ope. |
16:16 | *Nope | |
16:17 | wizzyrea | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNgAiGQ_IM |
16:18 | asaurat left #koha | |
16:18 | kf | wizzyrea: I think you can do some things with git bz edit |
16:18 | but it's quite limited | |
16:18 | wizzyrea | yea |
16:18 | I think patch status is a special conditional field for us or something | |
16:18 | kf | yep |
16:19 | custom field or something like that | |
16:19 | * jcamins | gazes with perplexity. |
16:19 | jcamins | What a weird book this is. |
16:19 | kf | hm? |
16:19 | jcamins | I can find no record of the book, the author, the translator, the original Russian edition, or *anything else*. |
16:20 | kf | oh |
16:21 | it's a print with only 1 book? | |
16:21 | jcamins | The edition supposedly had 2,000 copies, but apparently only one is known to have survived, and the author and translator are remarkably poorly-known. |
16:23 | kf | ok |
16:23 | end of year acq question | |
16:23 | has someone sql scripts moving the old orders to the new budgets/funds? | |
16:24 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
16:26 | maximep | wizzyrea: pretty much all disabilities |
16:27 | wizzyrea | so, motor disabilities, auditory disabilities, and visual disabilities? |
16:27 | maximep | yes |
16:28 | that means everything from color contrast, make it work at 200% font size, make it keyboard accessible | |
16:28 | stuff like that | |
16:29 | and of course make it work for screen readers | |
16:29 | kf | :) |
16:29 | we have reports that it works quite ok with lynx | |
16:29 | maximep: koha has a blind developer too :) |Lupin| | |
16:31 | maximep | cool |
16:36 | wizzyrea | sooo, version numbering |
16:36 | it's quite confusing to have a master number at 3.06.03.01 | |
16:36 | just sayin. | |
16:36 | * kf | agrees |
16:37 | * jcamins | too |
16:37 | wizzyrea | i had to go back and verify that I was using the right branch - it wastes my time |
16:48 | libsysguy left #koha | |
16:48 | jcamins | Speaking of branches, I pruned my git branches yesterday. |
16:49 | I was delighted to find that I could delete about fifty branches because they'd been pushed. | |
16:49 | wizzyrea | :D |
16:50 | jcamins | It really highlights how many features and bug fixes get into Koha. |
16:50 | wizzyrea | ya |
16:50 | is great :) | |
16:50 | nengard | jcamins is there a way to batch delete branches? |
16:51 | oleonard | I was delighted to find today that almost all of my patch-sent git branches are either signed off or passed-QA |
16:51 | wizzyrea | it' bc you're awesome. |
16:51 | jcamins | nengard: not that I know of. I just did branch -D (all the branches I wanted to delete) |
16:51 | * oleonard | will have to work to make more work for QA |
16:51 | wizzyrea | oleonard++ |
16:51 | nengard | k |
16:51 | jcamins | nengard: I was checking each bug to confirm that it was really pushed. |
16:52 | nengard | yeah |
16:52 | makes sense | |
16:52 | sekjal | got some code for bug 7401.... one minor problem |
16:52 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7401 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ian.walls, NEW , Shelving Location facet instead of Branch facet when only 1 branch configured |
16:53 | oleonard | I think you can git branch -d branch1 branch2 |
16:53 | sekjal | search results have no idea what side (OPAC or staff) they're being compiled for |
16:55 | paul_p | oleonard, the next step is to signoff bugs from others then, if you don't know what to do ;-) |
16:55 | oleonard, & jcamins & wizzyrea & others = have you seen sekjal today announcement ? | |
16:55 | * wizzyrea | did |
16:55 | jcamins | paul_p: I have indeed. |
16:58 | sekjal | I'll be finishing out my term as QAM, if the community allows. I have no indention of leaving Koha; I'll just be changing/scaling back my hours |
16:59 | oleonard | Oh sure, that's what they all say. And we never saw jcamins again! |
16:59 | jcamins | oleonard: no, but you saw jcamins' fudge which makes up for it, no? :P |
17:00 | oleonard | :) |
17:01 | nengard | ha! |
17:03 | sekjal | I'm looking forward to getting my home Koha install up and running |
17:04 | and customized to do some of the crazy things private libraries may want to do | |
17:04 | jcamins | sekjal: you mean like uploading images? |
17:04 | !! | |
17:04 | That reminds me of something on my to-do list! | |
17:04 | sekjal | jcamins: yes, that's pretty neat |
17:04 | jcamins | Can anyone guess what? |
17:04 | sekjal | I also want to be able to do more kinds of biblio-to-biblio relationships |
17:05 | * jcamins | watches sekjal bug himself about QAing bug 1633, and crosses that item off his to-do list. |
17:05 | nengard | jcamins whatever happened to the easy cataloging interface you were working on |
17:05 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1633 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, kmkale, ASSIGNED , Add ability to take book cover images from local img db |
17:05 | jcamins | nengard: it got larger. |
17:05 | nengard | heh |
17:05 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6968] Show items expired before today in check expiration of serials page <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6968> |
17:05 | jcamins | nengard: and moved out of Koha-proper, actually. |
17:06 | Once it's fully functional, I look forward to adding it back to Koha proper. | |
17:06 | nengard | k |
17:07 | maximep | finally had time to fix my patch for 6968... 1 month later :/ |
17:08 | wizzyrea | bug 6968 |
17:08 | jcamins | maximep: there are patches that have taken longer. |
17:08 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6968 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, colin.campbell, NEW , Show items expired before today in check expiration of serials page |
17:10 | jcamins | sekjal++ # arbitrary bibliographic relationships would be awesome. |
17:10 | Also awesome: supporting MODS. | |
17:11 | Also also awesome: replacing C4::XSLT with a T::T plugin. | |
17:11 | wizzyrea | maximep: not to be a bother, but may we have a test plan for 6968? |
17:12 | for those of us who don't use serials everyday it's not really clear how to test it | |
17:12 | sekjal | it'll probably be easier for me to convert metadata into MARC than to do arbitrary metadata format support, but I'd like to go there, too |
17:12 | wizzyrea | at least it's not clear to me |
17:12 | jcamins | sekjal: I know, but I thought I'd water the seed. ;) |
17:13 | maximep | well I don't know more than you about serials, so not really sure I can provide a test plan |
17:13 | sekjal | I'll need to automate record creation based on some odd data sources (like MusicBrainz) |
17:13 | slef | jcamins: sounds euphemistic |
17:14 | wizzyrea | ... ok then. |
17:14 | maximep | already had the data to test it :/ |
17:15 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6885] Superlibrarian users can't delete items from another library when IndependantBranches <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6885> |
17:15 | kf | bug 6968 |
17:15 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6968 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, colin.campbell, NEW , Show items expired before today in check expiration of serials page |
17:16 | kf | I wonder |
17:16 | why not justmake it a date range? | |
17:17 | expired between x and x? | |
17:17 | why is today important? coudl be preselected to search like that | |
17:20 | maximep | not sure a range would work |
17:20 | the client just wanted to see everything expired | |
17:31 | kf left #koha | |
17:49 | wizzyrea | hey what are the new FAQ's? |
17:49 | Package usage | |
17:53 | slef | bbl |
17:53 | jcamins | wizzyrea: Why? |
17:53 | * jcamins | asks that a lot. |
17:53 | jcamins | Frequently, even. |
17:54 | wizzyrea | why not? |
17:54 | jcamins | "Can Koha run under Windows?" |
17:54 | gmcharlt | yes, it's called VirtualBox |
17:54 | ;) | |
17:54 | jcamins | wizzyrea: I don't know. |
17:55 | Third base. | |
17:55 | oleonard | "Can I train my cat to wear shoes?" |
17:55 | wizzyrea | for koha, silly |
17:57 | cait joined #koha | |
17:57 | rangi | izban12 |
17:57 | heh | |
17:59 | lucky i dont use that for anything important | |
17:59 | jcamins | Heh. |
18:09 | rangi: good morning. | |
18:09 | rangi | morning :) |
18:11 | cait | morning rangi :) |
18:11 | jcamins | Chester the cat says hi. |
18:11 | s/cat/cloud of fur/ | |
18:11 | rangi | sup peeps |
18:12 | wizzyrea | not a lot :) |
18:12 | is a testing day | |
18:15 | cait | oh Chester? |
18:15 | wahanui | hmmm... Chester is no where near there, ye littlle... |
18:15 | cait | where is Myshkin? |
18:15 | wahanui | well, Myshkin is more than articulate enough without me performing his interior monologue. |
18:15 | wizzyrea | wahanui++ |
18:16 | jcamins | lol |
18:16 | That was remarkably appropriate. | |
18:16 | Chester is my client's cat. | |
18:16 | s/cat/cloud of fur/ | |
18:16 | He's blue. I had never known cats came in blue before. | |
18:16 | rangi | ok, gotta go catch my bus, back from the bus |
18:19 | cait | a blue cat? |
18:20 | are you feeling wlel jared? | |
18:20 | jcamins | cait: no, seriously. Apparently British short hair cats can come in blue. |
18:22 | cait | proove? |
18:22 | jcamins | I'm sure he'll just look gray in a photo, but I'll try. |
18:23 | Guillaume1 left #koha | |
18:23 | jwagner | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F[…]ish_blue_hugo.jpg |
18:24 | skushner joined #koha | |
18:25 | Soupermanito joined #koha | |
18:25 | jcamins | cait: http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net[…]7_136499197_n.jpg |
18:28 | cait | aaw |
18:28 | cute | |
18:28 | and he might be blue | |
18:28 | you can do a lot of things with gimp... | |
18:28 | jcamins | lol |
18:29 | sophie_m left #koha | |
18:32 | rangi | back |
18:32 | cait | wb rangi |
18:32 | rangi | thanks |
18:32 | jcamins | Welcome back. |
18:36 | sekjal | anyone familiar with Koha's SVC support? |
18:36 | looking at the new_bib function makes me... nervous | |
18:37 | jcamins | sekjal: not I, but I heard dpavlin was doing stuff with it. |
18:37 | sekjal | the add_bib subroutine explicitly deletes all incoming item record fields.... no comment as to why |
18:37 | cait | there is a page on the wiki |
18:38 | with documentation about it | |
18:38 | jcamins | sekjal: actually, I can explain that. |
18:38 | sekjal | cait: reading that, now |
18:38 | rangi | sekjal it was done to work with biblios |
18:38 | jcamins | sekjal: rangi already did, never mind. :) |
18:38 | rangi | so had a specific use case |
18:39 | cait | so you can't add items using it? |
18:39 | at all? | |
18:39 | rangi | which may or may not be useful |
18:39 | cait | oh |
18:39 | rangi | biblios.org |
18:39 | cait | I had hoped we could use it to create ill records and items |
18:39 | ILL | |
18:39 | rangi | not biblio records |
18:39 | you might be able to | |
18:39 | jcamins | cait: you could modify it. |
18:40 | cait | eew. |
18:40 | heh | |
18:40 | guess I will get there at some point | |
18:40 | rangi | biblios is dead along with google gears |
18:40 | gmcharlt | sekjal: the reasoning was to avoid having new_bib actually create items |
18:40 | so it's a little biblios-specific in that sense | |
18:41 | jcamins | sekjal: the biblios code is on github. |
18:41 | gmcharlt | in context, letting it accept any old 952 and try to create item records from it ... was not needed |
18:41 | but even if you think about Koha itself | |
18:41 | cait | would it be hard to add it as an option? |
18:41 | gmcharlt | I'd rather that one have to do a PUT /bibs/new_item |
18:41 | to create an item record | |
18:42 | sekjal | I ask because there is an existing implementation of an OCLC Connexion Gateway for Koha which makes use of the SVC interface |
18:42 | gmcharlt | rather than have it be a side effect of adding a new bib |
18:42 | rangi | however chrisdothall and I have some patches to use the svc/ space for other things (json from reports) so fixing/documenting the other files in there would be great |
18:42 | jcamins | sekjal: https://github.com/ccatalfo/biblios_old |
18:43 | rangi | sekjal: thanks for the qa on bug 929 ill look at that last patch after meetings today |
18:43 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ow_bug.cgi?id=929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , See details of a budget |
18:43 | rangi | not sure why I didn't apply |
18:43 | I = it | |
18:43 | sekjal | I applied it on top of the other 4 |
18:43 | should it have gone straight onto master? | |
18:43 | rangi | hmm nope |
18:44 | like that should have worked | |
18:44 | sekjal | something about lacking the necessary blobs and hashes |
18:44 | rangi | hmm |
18:44 | ah well should be able to fix it :) | |
18:44 | plugins/filters are cool :) | |
18:46 | jcamins | Plugins/filters++ |
18:46 | rangi | I did another one, for memcaching rendered template includes |
18:47 | but that depends on Koha::Cache | |
18:47 | jcamins | bug 929 |
18:47 | cait | tt is very cool |
18:47 | I love it | |
18:49 | rangi | filters are easy to write |
18:50 | sekjal | idea: new svc function: stage_bib |
18:50 | which doesn't filter items, and puts the biblio in the reservoir first, with a set of matching rules | |
18:51 | rangi | that sounds plausible |
18:53 | sekjal | would need to post not only the record, but also the matching rule, and perhaps something to indicate the behaviours |
18:55 | rangi | maybe as xml/yaml/sgml/m5/lisp/prolog |
18:55 | (the first 2 maybe) | |
18:55 | cait | lol |
18:55 | jcamins | prolog++ |
18:55 | rangi | so the biblio, with some conf |
18:55 | jcamins | In prolog. |
18:55 | rangi | rather than a bunch of param |
18:56 | jcamins | Which would not be in prolog. |
18:56 | rangi | heh |
18:56 | I haven't written prolog since 1992 | |
18:57 | jcamins | rangi: looks like this is your lucky year! |
18:57 | rangi | not even ow |
18:58 | (nz slang ill find you pronounciation when at my desk) | |
18:58 | speaking of which | |
18:58 | my stop bbiab | |
18:59 | gmcharlt | sekjal: not that there's any real requirement to stick to strict RESTful semantics |
18:59 | but how about | |
18:59 | PUT /svc/reservoir (to stage a but) | |
18:59 | or | |
18:59 | PUT /svc/import_batch | |
19:00 | PUT /svc/import_batch/new_bib | |
19:00 | cait | gmcharlt: happy new year :) |
19:00 | jcamins | gmcharlt: happy new year! |
19:01 | gmcharlt: BTW, C4::UploadedFile is really nicely done. | |
19:01 | gmcharlt | cait: jcamins: and a happy new your to you |
19:01 | er, new year | |
19:01 | sekjal | gmcharlt: fine by me... though, I need to confirm if staging is the desired behaviour, or if people just want the record to add/overwrite automatically |
19:01 | gmcharlt | sekjal: if it's the latter, then there are a couple options I suggest |
19:02 | first being writing a web service to identify patches | |
19:02 | *matches | |
19:02 | e.g, POST a bib, get its matches | |
19:02 | then update the bib | |
19:02 | secondly, to extend the noun-y semantics to include matchpoints other than the bib ID | |
19:03 | e.g., POST /bib/isbn/123456789000x | |
19:05 | rangi | back |
19:08 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
19:29 | edveal joined #koha | |
19:30 | rangi | ohh the last 929 one is katrin's ahh maybe i messed it up when i signed off |
19:30 | * rangi | checks |
19:32 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7271] Revert getitems default sort to homebranch instead of holding branch <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7271> |
19:32 | rangi | hmm jcamins got 5 mins? |
19:32 | http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ug.cgi?id=929#c17 | |
19:32 | huginn | 04Bug 929: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , See details of a budget |
19:33 | rangi | can you check im not doing something odd? |
19:33 | jcamins | rangi: the question is whether the last one applies on top of master + the previous patches? |
19:34 | rangi | yep |
19:34 | checkout master | |
19:34 | apply all 5 | |
19:34 | is what i did | |
19:34 | jcamins | Checking now. |
19:35 | rangi | thank you |
19:35 | * rangi | loves these bugs, nz + germany + connecticut + ny so far |
19:36 | cait | :) |
19:37 | rangi | and now the TT filter is passed QA |
19:37 | edveal | As I am wondering what the best way is to hide link within the staff site, specifically the "Most Circulated Items" report link. |
19:37 | rangi | i can fix bug 7402 with it! |
19:37 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7402 normal, P3, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , invoice not showing received titles |
19:37 | jcamins | No problems here. |
19:37 | rangi | edveal: hide from everyone? |
19:37 | jcamins: cool thanks | |
19:37 | jcamins | There should be five patches, right? |
19:37 | rangi | yup |
19:38 | edveal | I can clarify but as I understand it yes from everyone. |
19:38 | rangi | css |
19:38 | cait | you can use some jquery to do that - or css |
19:38 | ^^ what rangi says | |
19:38 | edveal | Thanks. |
19:39 | rangi | you may have to edit the template to put it in a span or a div with an id |
19:39 | to make it easier to do | |
19:39 | but thats a good change anyway | |
19:39 | ids on everything i say | |
19:39 | edveal | Don't want to mess with the template if I can avoid it. |
19:39 | rangi | no, that change should go upstream |
19:39 | wizzyrea | edveal: you can probably select on text in the href |
19:39 | oleonard | $("a[href='/cgi-bin/koha/reports/cat_issues_top.pl']").parent().remove(); |
19:39 | wizzyrea | or that |
19:40 | jcamins | edveal: just send in a patch. I'm sure it'd get signed off quickly. |
19:40 | oleonard | edveal: Have you seen the jQuery library on the wiki? |
19:40 | * rangi | still wants ids on everything :) |
19:40 | * jcamins | thinks CSS would be better. |
19:41 | rangi | faster anyway |
19:41 | edveal | Yes, I have seen the library but thought I would bounce it off this group before hunting around in there. |
19:41 | oleonard | jcamins: CSS would work if you had an id |
19:41 | * rangi | points up there ^^ |
19:41 | rangi | :) |
19:41 | jcamins | oleonard: yes, I'm saying edveal should add an id and and use CSS. |
19:41 | Better. | |
19:42 | * oleonard | would sign off on that |
19:42 | * rangi | too |
19:42 | cait | me too |
19:42 | rangi | twice in fact |
19:42 | and with sugar on top | |
19:42 | wizzyrea | can change it to the ID after tho ;) |
19:42 | make ppls happy now + make us happy too! | |
19:50 | slef | bleargh... http://boingboing.net/2012/01/[…]ont-like-the.html PayPal: if you don't like the violin you bought, smash it and we'll give you your money back |
19:51 | jcamins | slef: charming, isn't it? |
19:51 | slef | I'm looking at how we take money for kohacon-related things again. I think we may end up with paypal involved, at least until we hit a threshhold. I wish we didn't, but alternatives suck too. |
19:52 | jcamins | slef: yeah, I've been persuaded that PayPal is not the way to go for receiving electronic payments. |
19:52 | slef: my solution was to refuse electronic payments, something that unfortunately is not an option in your case. | |
19:54 | slef | jcamins: I think when we hit our sponsorship target, I will accept bank transfers too, but not before else our sponsorship-collecting fees will be higher (I HATE ALL FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE OF STUFF LIKE THIS) |
19:55 | I wish more UK credit unions and building societies offered business accounts. | |
19:55 | jcamins | As far as I know, credit unions in the US don't offer business accounts. |
19:56 | * oleonard | had never heard the term "building society" before |
19:56 | rangi | really? |
19:56 | we have those here too | |
19:57 | oleonard | Ah, Wikipedia says the US version is a Savings and Loan. |
19:57 | * jcamins | doesn't know what a savings and loan is. |
19:57 | schuster | Those all dissappeared in the 80's didn't they? |
19:58 | * jcamins | has always wondered. |
19:58 | oleonard | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S[…]tion#Decline_of_S.26Ls |
20:02 | kathryn joined #koha | |
20:04 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7402] invoice not showing received titles <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7402> |
20:07 | rangi | i love TT filters |
20:07 | * jcamins | too |
20:08 | rangi | http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]=7041&action=diff <-- made of win |
20:08 | jcamins | Especially ones that unpollute C4 by eliminating C4::XSLT. |
20:08 | Nice! | |
20:08 | cait | TT++ |
20:09 | rangi++ for making the switch happen, and chrisdothall++ of course | |
20:09 | jcamins | TT filters? |
20:09 | wizzyrea | oh snaps |
20:09 | jcamins | TT filters are a brilliant idea, and everyone should be using them wherever possible and appropriate. |
20:09 | TT filters? | |
20:09 | wahanui | TT filters are a brilliant idea, and everyone should be using them wherever possible and appropriate. |
20:09 | cait | heh :) |
20:09 | chris_n joined #koha | |
20:10 | * wizzyrea | sees what you did there |
20:12 | oleonard | Hmmm.. System preference to edit SIP2 responses for errors like expired patron, debarred, etc? |
20:12 | rangi | ? |
20:13 | oleonard | Overdrive shows the error message it gets from Koha if the patron's account is expired: PATRON EXPIRED. Not very friendly. |
20:13 | jcamins | cait: if you question that this cat is blue, you should see my formerly-black trousers. |
20:13 | kathryn joined #koha | |
20:13 | cait | jcamins: lol |
20:14 | oleonard: perhaps better have a separate interface for it - but would like it | |
20:14 | chris_n joined #koha | |
20:16 | gmcharlt | oleonard: FUD of the day -- Koha is making patrons expire! |
20:17 | but to answer your comment seriously, yeah, an interface to edit SIP2 messages would be nice; there are some similar requests floating out there for Evergreen | |
20:17 | sekjal | oleonard: standard messages could be added to either the Constants.pm, or a Messages.pm, |
20:18 | then have them look up sysprefs. if they exist, use, else fall back to defaults | |
20:18 | oleonard | The SIP2 messages are the only way for us to communicate to the patron why they couldn't log in, since the rest of the Overdrive system is closed to us |
20:18 | sekjal | and wouldn't it be nice to change/remove that "Greetings from Koha." message? |
20:18 | gmcharlt | sekjal: one quibble - Constants.pm / Messages.pm wouldn't be (inherently) translateable |
20:19 | sekjal | true |
20:19 | but it's not now... and at least the syspref values could be edited to match local languages | |
20:20 | gmcharlt | but a strings file that belonged to SIPServer itself, on the other hand... |
20:20 | eh, if we had hooks to customize strings, may as well make them fully translateable from the get-go | |
20:22 | wizzyrea | ^^ |
20:22 | * rangi | heads off to the reserve bank |
20:22 | rangi | bbiab |
20:22 | wizzyrea | gl with them |
20:23 | rangi | setting up single sign on |
20:23 | so all good | |
20:23 | * rangi | is gone |
20:23 | cait | about the messages |
20:23 | translatability would be a plus | |
20:23 | I think the vendors we worked with use their software | |
20:24 | to translate what they get from koha into something that makes more sense | |
20:24 | some things don't give nice feedback though and were a bit of a problem | |
20:28 | oleonard | Speaking of which, Bug 7396 needs signoff but I'm not sure how one tests |
20:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7396 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, NEW , Debarred message not displayed over SIP2 |
20:29 | sekjal | testing SIP2 is always a huge pain |
20:30 | slef | jcamins: I think the theory of building societies used to be that the community put all its money in a pot, built a few houses with less reliance on the bankers, then as the first wave repaid, newer borrowers could build their homes. Cooperation in action! |
20:30 | gmcharlt | sekjal: one thign that would help testing the bug would be identifying whether the relevant message is the patron information request, the checkout message, or both |
20:30 | oleonard: testing SIP2 can be done from telnet | |
20:31 | typical approach is to copy and paste lines and examine the responses | |
20:31 | I can feed you a couple in a momenty | |
20:31 | jcamins | slef: sounds like a good idea to me. |
20:35 | slef | jcamins: trouble here was in the 1980s/90s that a majority of savers and borrowers of about a dozen societies were convinced that all this member control was a problematic overhead and they sold out to banks and other capitalists. |
20:36 | jcamins: none of the demutualised dozen survives as an independent institution any more and very few survive even as a shopfront brand, although one may soon be bought by the UK's largest co-op. | |
20:37 | jcamins: also, the largest failed UK bank, Northern Rock, was one of them. | |
20:37 | aaaany way ;) | |
20:37 | * jcamins | would've thought the Bank of Scotland would be the largest failed bank. |
20:38 | slef | didn't actually fail |
20:38 | wizzyrea | I'm trying to test the receipts dev on bug 7001 - and I see this: http://screencast.com/t/1Uc1a6FPFbt |
20:38 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7001 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , User Configurable Slips |
20:38 | wizzyrea | I suspect I'm doing something wrong. |
20:38 | slef | got into trouble, sold a chunk to gov.uk |
20:38 | but still technically a working bank | |
20:39 | I think NR was completely taken by UK Financial Asset Management = gov.uk's proxy | |
20:45 | wizzyrea | is that a mysql version thing? |
20:46 | seneca joined #koha | |
20:46 | jcamins | Yikes! I've never seen anything like that. |
20:46 | And with that thought, I'm going home. | |
20:46 | Good night, #koha. | |
20:46 | Wish us luck. | |
20:46 | wizzyrea | ha later |
20:46 | gl | |
20:46 | seneca | Anyone know what Perl module supplies Locale/Currency/Format.pm? |
20:46 | jcamins | Thanks. |
20:46 | Locale::Currency? | |
20:46 | seneca | (Oh yeah, Happy New Year, everyone!) |
20:47 | is it that easy? ;) | |
20:47 | jcamins_away | seneca: think so. |
20:47 | wizzyrea | or package |
20:47 | liblocale-currency-format-perl | |
20:47 | jcamins_away | ^^ better. |
20:47 | * wizzyrea | had to look it up |
20:47 | wizzyrea | i typed in "debian package locale currency format" (no quotes) |
20:48 | seneca | I did the same thing, but that package isn't being found by apt... |
20:48 | slef | nooo |
20:48 | seneca | trying the cpan module |
20:48 | slef | use the file search on http://packages.debian.org ? |
20:48 | sekjal | anyone use the Transfers and Transfers to Receive pages in Circ? |
20:49 | slef | sekjal: surely someone must else they wouldn't have been written?</useless> |
20:49 | seneca | I think that "apt-cache search" searches the descriptions from packages.debian.org |
20:49 | sekjal | slef: could be vestigial |
20:50 | oleonard | sekjal: I seem to recall libraries using them to move items between "virtual" branches |
20:50 | slef | seneca: no, it's only the locally-cached listings and only for the currently-installed distributions |
20:50 | oleonard | (branches used as shelving locations I think) |
20:50 | slef | s/installed/configured |
20:50 | sekjal | I think there is a problem with using branch transfers and automatic item return |
20:51 | if you transfer a material from it's homebranch A to branch B, then try to check it in, if HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is set to 'homebranch', it immediately asks you to return it | |
20:51 | instead of clearing the transfer and "accepting" the material | |
20:51 | slef | My apt-cache finds this package: liblocale-currency-format-perl - Perl functions for formatting monetary values |
20:51 | sekjal | so checkin must not be the right action to "accept" a transfer |
20:51 | slef | seneca: are you on squeeze? |
20:51 | sekjal | I think that, odd as it seems, "cancel transfer" is the right action |
20:52 | wizzyrea | I think you're right |
20:52 | seneca | lenny still |
20:52 | slef | seneca: lenny end of life next month, you know? |
20:52 | seneca | I know... |
20:53 | wizzyrea | sekjal we use those pages |
20:53 | slef | seneca: upgrade, or backport that package for an easier upgrade later |
20:53 | seneca: apt-get source --build liblocale-currency-format-perl # if all else is configured | |
20:54 | sekjal | wizzyrea: how to you 'receive' a transfer that was initiated from the branch transfers page? |
20:54 | wizzyrea | afaik you just check it in, and it says "not checked out" |
20:54 | slef | seneca: (a deb-src line for squeeze, dpkg-dev installed and probably other stuff I forget) |
20:54 | sekjal | wizzyrea: do you have automatic item return on? |
20:54 | wizzyrea | yes, I believe so, let me double check |
20:55 | slef | hehe... not what I thought: http://www.evergreencoop.com/ |
20:55 | cait left #koha | |
20:55 | wizzyrea | yes, we do |
20:55 | sekjal | and set to return to homebranch? |
20:55 | wizzyrea | yep |
20:56 | sekjal | ugh |
20:56 | I don't know | |
20:57 | I think there is some data funkiness complicating my test case | |
20:57 | wizzyrea | what is this in response to? |
20:57 | the 1st question | |
20:57 | the first question? | |
20:57 | wahanui | the first question is "What are you trying to do?" |
20:57 | sekjal | a partner library is having some difficulties getting stuff moved between their branches and bookmobile |
20:58 | wizzyrea | hmm |
20:59 | this is my interpretation of what you told me you were doing: http://screencast.com/t/q3NxANVX8S | |
20:59 | or what you were trying to do | |
21:00 | without the mistake of course ;) | |
21:00 | * oleonard | goes to watch the video of wizzyrea's interpretive dance |
21:00 | wizzyrea | which reminds me of "how you dance to dubstep" |
21:00 | 1. wait for the drop | |
21:00 | 2. convulse wildly | |
21:02 | sekjal | wizzyrea: that is exactly it |
21:03 | only, I'm getting a "transfer to HOMEBRANCH" message instead of "not checked out" | |
21:03 | wizzyrea | hmm |
21:03 | so is there a hypothetical library C in there somewhere? | |
21:03 | sekjal | possibly |
21:03 | or, it could be that the item is already at branch B | |
21:03 | wizzyrea | like, the item is at library A, *should be* at library B, but is really at library C? |
21:03 | * wizzyrea | can create that too |
21:04 | wizzyrea | I happen to know that misroutes can cause all sorts of funky |
21:04 | especially after a couple of checkind | |
21:04 | checkins | |
21:04 | double misroutes usually make transfers go away | |
21:04 | and the items get stuck wherever they are | |
21:05 | sekjal | we seriously need to revisit our logic behind item transfers... |
21:05 | unfortunately, it's wicked complex, and every library will want a slightly different workflow | |
21:06 | wizzyrea | true |
21:06 | but, at the same time | |
21:06 | I think there are more similarities than subtle differences. | |
21:10 | and we have the building blocks for almost all of it | |
21:11 | sekjal | there are so many variables to track: who owns the book? where is it now? where is supposed to be, and why? |
21:11 | wizzyrea | right, branchtransfers could generate a whole lot more metadata |
21:11 | I was just discussing today | |
21:11 | adding a "check status" function to the transfers page | |
21:11 | sekjal | homebranch and holdingbranch answer the first two questions |
21:12 | if we used branch transfers to answer the third, we may be all set | |
21:12 | pastebot | "gmcharlt" at 65.15.86.218 pasted "for oleonard: how to test SIP" (31 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/185 |
21:12 | wizzyrea | gmcharlt++ |
21:12 | gmcharlt | (and yes, sekjal's patch works0 |
21:13 | oleonard | gmcharlt++ |
21:13 | * gmcharlt | muses how well the debarred message would play with the patrons of a law library |
21:14 | wizzyrea | also, fines messages go in that "messages" field as well |
21:14 | amount owed, or something | |
21:15 | * oleonard | will have to test tomorrow... quitting time |
21:23 | wizzyrea | bye - (that's what I get for not paying attention) |
21:29 | nengard left #koha | |
21:31 | rangi | back |
21:31 | man i should go to meetings more often, you guys fix everything when im not here | |
21:31 | wizzyrea | lulz |
21:48 | kathryn joined #koha | |
21:50 | rangi | gmcharlt: im gonna steal your how to test SIP instructions and put them on the wiki |
21:50 | gmcharlt++ | |
21:50 | gmcharlt | thief! |
21:50 | ;) | |
21:50 | rangi | heh |
21:50 | gmcharlt | rangi++ |
21:52 | wizzyrea | yes rangi++ |
21:52 | Also, I was trying to think of new FAQ's | |
21:58 | sekjal | night, #koha |
21:59 | rangi | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]sting_with_Telnet |
21:59 | wizzyrea | woooooot |
22:03 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
22:06 | wizzyrea1 joined #koha | |
22:07 | slef | whatever us or code4lib do with registrations, we still beat the London Olympics - another goof announced today |
22:08 | rangi | heh |
22:09 | slef | http://m.itn.co.uk/36283_120104olympics04.html |
22:23 | wizzyrea | oh who added the bit to the wiki re: the 3M emulator! |
22:23 | rangi | not me |
22:23 | wizzyrea | that's awesoem. |
22:23 | so great I can't spell. | |
22:23 | rangi | heh |
22:23 | wizzyrea | dpavlin++ |
22:24 | history ftw. | |
22:25 | Brooke joined #koha | |
22:26 | Brooke | o/ |
22:26 | wizzyrea | heya |
22:32 | libsysguy left #koha | |
22:35 | slef | surely it should be 3Mulator? |
22:47 | edveal left #koha | |
22:51 | mle | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ack-and-white.jpg anyone got the vector art here? |
22:51 | wizzyrea | I don't |
22:51 | mle | :p |
22:52 | maximep left #koha | |
22:54 | rangi | mle: ill ask our designers |
22:54 | they used something to create this | |
22:55 | http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/st[…]scoverer/koha.png | |
22:55 | wizzyrea | oh I rather like that lil logo better |
22:56 | is fancy | |
22:56 | slef | hrm shouldn't we have the source code for the logo in git? ;) |
22:56 | wizzyrea | Yes, we should |
22:57 | if we can find it | |
22:57 | slef | what do you mean it's not been catalogued? |
22:58 | wizzyrea | i have never seen a vector art copy of it |
22:58 | slef | so if it's not in the acq pile, it didn't exist? |
23:09 | mle | rangi: that is a pretty logo. |
23:11 | rangi | you are welcome to it, if you want to change the 0 to a 2 :) |
23:13 | * mle | gets the Tippex |
23:13 | rangi | hehe |
23:14 | ^H2 | |
23:14 | wizzyrea | i actually really like the intricacy of that logo |
23:14 | really really | |
23:14 | I think we should adopt it | |
23:14 | omg my clone | |
23:14 | rangi | lisa did it |
23:23 | mle joined #koha | |
23:28 | mle joined #koha | |
23:39 | chris_n` joined #koha |
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