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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:03 | melia left #koha | |
| 00:28 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 00:42 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 02:01 | rangi | back |
| 02:23 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 02:31 | Soupermanito joined #koha | |
| 02:35 | eythian | http://i.imgur.com/SxsGK.gif <-- there's some terrible people out there |
| 02:35 | wizzyrea | o my |
| 02:36 | burning cars are scary imo | |
| 02:36 | eythian: i was looking at the sound cues patch today | |
| 02:36 | I didn't get through all of the triggers | |
| 02:36 | eythian | Yeah, I've sworn off driving them when they're on fire. |
| 02:36 | wizzyrea | but I'll look at it more tomorrow |
| 02:36 | eythian | OK. |
| 02:37 | Let me know if any are missing, it's hard to spot them all. | |
| 02:37 | wizzyrea | didn't want you to think no one was looking at it :) |
| 02:37 | eythian | :D |
| 02:38 | Danielle | It's truly something else to suddenly have flames above the fuel tank fill cap protruding through the bonnet ahead of you... |
| 02:42 | eythian | there's your problem: that's the radiator cap, not the fuel cap! :) |
| 02:42 | rangi | ohh Danielle said bonnet |
| 02:43 | wizzyrea | :) |
| 02:45 | help_koha joined #koha | |
| 02:45 | help_koha | hello! |
| 02:45 | wizzyrea | are you here to help us? |
| 02:45 | help_koha | goodday |
| 02:45 | wizzyrea | :) |
| 02:45 | help_koha | nope |
| 02:45 | I'm here to get help :) | |
| 02:46 | wizzyrea | ohhh |
| 02:46 | go ahead :) | |
| 02:46 | help_koha | I need support |
| 02:46 | Danielle | It was also one of these http://bit.ly/npA1PN (though the gasoline version of that model.) |
| 02:46 | wizzyrea | @quote get 145 |
| 02:46 | huginn | wizzyrea: Quote #145: "Don't ask to ask, just ask!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:37 PM, July 07, 2011) |
| 02:48 | help_koha | I can't search on my koha |
| 02:49 | wizzyrea | searching faq? |
| 02:49 | wahanui1 | hmmm... searching faq is at http://koha-community.org/docu[…]on/faq/searching/ |
| 02:52 | help_koha | thanks |
| 03:09 | bg | evening |
| 03:09 | heya wizzyrea | |
| 03:12 | eythian | bye wahanui1 |
| 03:12 | wahanui joined #koha | |
| 03:12 | eythian | hi wahanui |
| 03:12 | wahanui | bonjour, eythian |
| 03:17 | trea joined #koha | |
| 03:18 | wizzyrea | hwaddup bg |
| 03:18 | bg | yo |
| 03:18 | rangi | b dawg |
| 03:18 | bg | wassup rangi |
| 03:18 | trea | o/ |
| 03:19 | rangi | heya trea |
| 03:19 | bg: just working away, waiting for the USA vs Russia game tonight | |
| 03:19 | apparently Putins PA has flown in for the game | |
| 03:19 | eythian | it'll be M.A.D. |
| 03:19 | bg | hockey? |
| 03:20 | rangi | rugby |
| 03:20 | bg | (I'm kidding) |
| 03:20 | rangi | hehe |
| 03:20 | if putin was playing they would win for sure | |
| 03:20 | bg | use vs. russia - is wicked famous here for hockey |
| 03:20 | rangi | http://www.theatlantic.com/inf[…]ction-man/100147/ |
| 03:20 | yeah, that was the game the US one with the amateur team | |
| 03:20 | miracle on ice ? | |
| 03:23 | bg | yup |
| 03:23 | I just broke the laser pointer out and Aloo is chasing it around… he's on full alert | |
| 03:24 | rangi | heh |
| 03:24 | i love that dog | |
| 03:25 | i could go some ribs and some elk (it was elk we had eh) right about now | |
| 03:28 | bg | yeah elk |
| 03:28 | plus vension | |
| 03:29 | eythian | Where I used to live, venison was cheaper than beef. |
| 03:29 | I miss that. | |
| 03:33 | rangi | ohh got a library in eritrea now |
| 03:33 | Asmara Public Library | |
| 03:34 | eythian | https://market.android.com/det[…]y.statisticshacks <-- this O'Reilly ebook thing is starting to become a Problem for me. |
| 03:37 | rangi | too many things to buy? |
| 03:38 | eythian | Well, I keep going "oh, I need to know about /X/" and grabbing the book. |
| 03:38 | rangi | heh yep |
| 03:38 | drm free tho, so we could actually do a catalyst library of them i guess ;) | |
| 03:38 | we could even catalogue them | |
| 03:38 | someones bound to have written something to do that | |
| 03:39 | * wizzyrea | looks around for people who write tools to catalogue books |
| 03:39 | wizzyrea | nope. don't see any. Oh wait. |
| 03:39 | eythian | Yeah, it would be good to have an index of the epubs/pdfs somewhere. |
| 03:42 | https://market.android.com/det[…]isbn9781449395285 <-- ah, and the one I was looking for in particular | |
| 03:48 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 03:48 | rangi | hey kmkale |
| 03:48 | hows the arm? | |
| 03:48 | kmkale | huge cast till 26th. |
| 03:48 | rangi | ahh thats no fun |
| 03:48 | kmkale | so left fingers for now |
| 03:49 | then a normal cast for 4 more weeks if it has healed well :( | |
| 03:49 | juan_sieira_ joined #koha | |
| 03:49 | rangi | i hope it has healed well |
| 03:50 | kmkale | thanks |
| 03:50 | rangi | http://galencharlton.com/blog/[…]bracing-politics/ |
| 03:50 | good blog post from gmcharlt | |
| 03:51 | Irma | hi kmkale sorry to hear about your arm ... Guess what ... my cast is also coming off on the 26th (oh no now I read on and I see about the normal cast after the 26th :-() |
| 03:51 | kmkale | heh Irma. good luck :) |
| 03:53 | Irma | kmkale I was not adding 5 minutes to every 1 hour task at first, but a broken arm does slow us down ... |
| 03:54 | now I do and hurt myself far less because I can take the time to be more cautious | |
| 03:55 | kmkale | :) presently I am on post op meds. So I can hardly do much. Hopefully it will improve from tomorrow when I get off the heavy meds.. |
| 03:55 | Irma | kmhale You sure have our sympathy! yes ... |
| 03:56 | ciao for now :-) | |
| 03:57 | kmkale | Thanks Irma.. |
| 04:07 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 04:07 | Oak | kia ora #koha |
| 04:10 | rangi | hi Oak |
| 04:11 | Oak | how is rangi today :) |
| 04:22 | Irma joined #koha | |
| 04:27 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 04:30 | rangi | oh joy |
| 04:30 | wizzyrea | ? |
| 04:30 | rangi | https://yfrog.com/kg1h3thj |
| 04:30 | here comes another southerly front | |
| 04:30 | eythian | yikes, that does look bad |
| 04:30 | wizzyrea | ohh |
| 04:30 | yikes | |
| 04:31 | rangi | hail again i bet |
| 04:32 | and there it is | |
| 04:33 | wizzyrea | is hail common? |
| 04:33 | eythian | nope |
| 04:34 | rangi | i blame the russian rugby team |
| 04:42 | eythian | Oh, blue sky again |
| 04:42 | rangi | i blame the samoan rugby team for that |
| 04:43 | bg | heh |
| 04:43 | that was a bad one | |
| 04:44 | rangi | :) |
| 04:45 | wizzyrea | hmm, i wonder if the faq helped help_koha |
| 04:47 | rangi | its destined to be an eternal mystery |
| 04:53 | wizzyrea | @quote add rangi: it's destined to be an eternal mystery |
| 04:53 | huginn | wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #154 added. |
| 05:21 | rangi | right hometime |
| 05:30 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 05:36 | wizzyrea | this is pretty entertaining |
| 05:36 | http://doodle.no.de/ | |
| 05:40 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:42 | eythian | wizzyrea: may not be safe for work :) |
| 05:42 | speaking of, hi cait ;) | |
| 05:42 | wizzyrea | hmm |
| 05:42 | I suppose you're right | |
| 05:43 | cait | speaking of? |
| 05:43 | wizzyrea | though I got ones like "bacon and eggs in a pan" |
| 05:43 | cait | hi eythian and wizzyrea |
| 05:43 | wizzyrea | hi |
| 05:43 | wahanui | bonjour, wizzyrea |
| 05:43 | * wizzyrea | pats wahanui |
| 05:43 | wizzyrea | good night botfriend |
| 05:43 | good night realfriends | |
| 05:43 | eythian | wizzyrea: I got something a bit more suggestive, in large letters on my screen :) |
| 05:43 | wizzyrea | Ooo, yea that would be bad |
| 05:44 | REFRESH REFRESH | |
| 05:44 | must have known I have "tender" eyes | |
| 05:44 | * wizzyrea | busts up laughing |
| 05:44 | eythian | clearly :) |
| 05:45 | * cait | wonders if she is still sleeping |
| 05:45 | wahanui | i already had it that way, cait. |
| 05:45 | eythian | in other news, I now have man pages autogenerating from docbook as part of the build process. |
| 05:45 | hahah | |
| 05:45 | wizzyrea | hawt |
| 05:45 | I used schema.k-c.org today | |
| 05:45 | super awesome happy fun time! | |
| 05:46 | eythian | yeah, nifty eh |
| 05:46 | wizzyrea | way nifty |
| 05:46 | eythian | should link to it from the reports page. |
| 05:46 | wizzyrea | ooo |
| 05:46 | put a bug in to remind me | |
| 05:46 | if you have a min | |
| 05:46 | and I need to remember to put it on k-c.org too | |
| 05:46 | it's like nearly 1am here | |
| 05:47 | i'm in denial that I have to spend 6 hours in a car tomorrow | |
| 05:47 | eythian | OK |
| 05:47 | I have 16 or 17 or so in a plane coming up :/ | |
| 05:47 | cait | wizzyrea: go to bed! |
| 05:48 | wizzyrea | but but |
| 05:48 | rangi | brrrr |
| 05:48 | tis cold out there | |
| 05:48 | eythian | my computer says 14. It may be lying htough |
| 05:49 | rangi | I think it is |
| 05:49 | eythian | wizzyrea: made and allocated to you |
| 05:49 | wizzyrea | ty kindly |
| 05:49 | rangi | @wunder wellington nz |
| 05:49 | huginn | rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Rising). |
| 05:49 | eythian | metservice says 8, feels like 6. |
| 05:50 | rangi | yeah that sounds right |
| 05:50 | ok when ur moving cold waiting for the bus | |
| 05:51 | cait | wizzyrea: no buts - bed! :) |
| 05:51 | @wunder Konstanz | |
| 05:51 | huginn | cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 11.3°C (7:47 AM CEST on September 15, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1019.9 hPa (Rising). |
| 05:51 | cait | oh |
| 05:54 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 05:54 | rangi | hi laurence |
| 05:54 | laurence | hi rangi |
| 05:55 | cait | hi laurence |
| 06:09 | eythian | magnuse: you've got email |
| 06:09 | magnuse | yay |
| 06:09 | * magnuse | runs to the inbox |
| 06:09 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 06:10 | magnuse | eythian++ |
| 06:11 | i'll give your patch a spin in a moment | |
| 06:11 | eythian | cool |
| 06:11 | cait | :) |
| 06:12 | magnuse++ eythian++ | |
| 06:12 | magnuse | yay |
| 06:12 | and hi cait | |
| 06:12 | cait | hi :) |
| 06:12 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 4877] koha-* scripts have no manual pages <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4877> |
| 06:17 | kmkale_ joined #koha | |
| 06:20 | kmkale__ joined #koha | |
| 06:20 | kmkale___ joined #koha | |
| 06:27 | alex_a | hello |
| 06:28 | magnuse | bonjour |
| 06:29 | cait | hi alex_a |
| 06:42 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 06:42 | sophie_m left #koha | |
| 06:54 | Irma | Hi all |
| 06:54 | eythian | hi Irma |
| 06:54 | Irma | hi eythian |
| 06:55 | how r u? | |
| 06:55 | eythian | Not too bad. Busy as ever. |
| 06:56 | Irma | I get such vibes coming across the ditch ... But sounds like the business is paying off ;-) |
| 06:57 | Is KohaCon2011 possible for you? | |
| 06:57 | eythian | yeah, we're going to be flat out until the end of the year at least we expect. |
| 06:58 | Irma | correction: busyness not business |
| 06:58 | eythian | Yep, I'm going. Chris isn't. |
| 06:58 | Irma | Cool! Yes I know about Chris ... |
| 06:59 | have you had your immunisations done yet? I am going tomorrow ... Bob too | |
| 06:59 | eythian | I haven't yet, the ones I got for the Solomon Islands should be all I need, but I have an appointment for next week to get a booster and see if there's anything else I should have. |
| 07:00 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 07:01 | Irma | eythian it will be good to get it done! Just in case ... |
| 07:02 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 07:02 | Irma | Koha question ... hourly circulation/lending is that more likely to be available in koha v 4? |
| 07:02 | lending | |
| 07:02 | or before? | |
| 07:02 | * magnuse | admires the intrepid travellers |
| 07:02 | eythian | Yeah, it can't hurt (well...) Also, I think by then I will have had everything I need for everywhere, except Africa (which would need a yellow fever one, too) |
| 07:03 | Not sure, I haven't been following hourly loans. | |
| 07:03 | I guess there's a chance it'll get in to 3.6, I've seen work on it, but I don't know how far along it is. | |
| 07:03 | Irma | hi magnuse ;-) |
| 07:03 | magnuse | hiya Irma |
| 07:04 | bug 5549 | |
| 07:04 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5549 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, ian.walls, ASSIGNED , Hourly Loans |
| 07:04 | magnuse | current status is "Failed QA" |
| 07:06 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 07:06 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:06 | magnuse | bonjour reiveune |
| 07:07 | reiveune | :) Hi magnuse |
| 07:07 | julian_ joined #koha | |
| 07:07 | Irma | thanks eythian. NP. Most likely by the time this library has it's implementation in production it will be available .... there is much delay in their committing to Koha so far |
| 07:10 | thanks magnuse for bug # | |
| 07:11 | magnuse | np |
| 07:12 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 07:31 | Guillaume joined #koha | |
| 07:32 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 07:34 | magnuse | russia v.s. usa - that sounds kind of epic... |
| 07:44 | paul_p | hello world. Live from the annual "librarian in universities association" conference. BibLibre has a booth |
| 07:45 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 07:46 | magnuse | good luck with that, paul! |
| 07:59 | rangi | 10-3 to the usa magnuse |
| 08:01 | magnuse | but is it epic? ;-) |
| 08:02 | rangi | pretty good game so far |
| 08:02 | russia's first ever game in a world cup | |
| 08:02 | the russian deputy prime minister is here watching it | |
| 08:04 | magnuse | oh |
| 08:04 | is rugby a big game there? | |
| 08:04 | rangi | getting bigger all the time |
| 08:04 | but its the first time they have managed to qualify | |
| 08:06 | magnuse | ah |
| 08:06 | rangi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R[…]_rugby_union_team |
| 08:07 | magnuse | hm i think my preconceived notions about rugby and russians are sort of aligned with each other... |
| 08:07 | rangi | romania and georgia are also in the world cup |
| 08:08 | magnuse | yeah, i saw georgia on a list somewhere |
| 08:08 | kf joined #koha | |
| 08:08 | kf | hi #koha |
| 08:08 | rangi | hi kf |
| 08:08 | kf | hi rangi :) |
| 08:08 | magnuse | there is a norwegian librarian who is doing a library project in a georgia prison, and wants to use koha for it :-) |
| 08:08 | kf | one day away 120 mails + mailing lists... |
| 08:09 | rangi | ah cool |
| 08:09 | kf | magnuse: cool |
| 08:09 | magnuse | we managed to find some georgia libraries already using it |
| 08:09 | searching for "koha georgia" was npt the way to do it ;-) | |
| 08:10 | s/npt/not/ | |
| 08:12 | http://koha.iset.ge/ "Supported by BP, Government of Georgia, the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, OSI, Sida, and the World Bank" yay | |
| 08:13 | rangi | ohh very cool |
| 08:13 | magnuse | and this one looks cool: http://opac.kohamarc.sciencelib.ge/ |
| 08:15 | rangi | pretty old koha versions, but seem to be working fine for tme |
| 08:15 | them | |
| 08:16 | magnuse | yeah, "if it works, don't fix it" seems to be quite a common stance... |
| 08:16 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 08:16 | miguelxercode left #koha | |
| 08:17 | rangi | half time |
| 08:17 | magnuse | huh - i just built koha-common off current master, with the patches for bug 4877 |
| 08:17 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4877 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, NEW , koha-* scripts have no manual pages |
| 08:18 | rangi | yup? |
| 08:18 | magnuse | and when i do "sudo dpkg -i" on a fresh vm i get lots of... |
| 08:18 | e.g. koha-common needs tinymce2 but tinymce2 is not installed? | |
| 08:18 | rangi | hmm |
| 08:19 | eythian | magnuse: that's normal |
| 08:19 | rangi | yup, thats quite normal |
| 08:19 | eythian | it's because they're not installed |
| 08:19 | rangi | try doing an apt-get -f install now |
| 08:19 | eythian | what I do is do |
| 08:19 | that | |
| 08:19 | rangi | and it should pull in all the dependencies |
| 08:19 | magnuse | ah |
| 08:20 | rangi | because you aren't apt-getting it, but dpkg -i it, it doesnt get a chance to pull in the dependencies |
| 08:20 | eythian | (what I actually do is browse through the .deb itself usually to see what's in there) |
| 08:20 | magnuse | it's been a while since i did it from scratch... |
| 08:20 | eythian | (and sometimes kick it over to a staging server using repositories that we have here) |
| 08:21 | now it's time to go home, been helping with a minor Stuff emergency | |
| 08:21 | magnuse | yay |
| 08:22 | eythian | but, got two Koha things finished that I wanted to today, so that's all good :) |
| 08:22 | oh, should email someone first... | |
| 08:27 | http://blackandwtf.tumblr.com/[…]the-animal-rescue <-- home time now, but I'll leave you with this | |
| 08:27 | rangi | heh |
| 08:28 | magnuse | :-) |
| 08:28 | ooh, ice cold whisky dispenser | |
| 08:34 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 08:41 | juan_sieira_ joined #koha | |
| 08:42 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 08:46 | magnuse | what's the thing with libcgi-session-driver-memcached-perl again? the right version isn't in the debian repos yet or something? |
| 08:50 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 08:51 | Brooke | kia ora |
| 08:51 | rangi | thats right, but its at debian.koha-community.org |
| 08:52 | hi Brooke | |
| 08:52 | Brooke | howdy |
| 08:52 | wahanui | hello, Brooke |
| 08:52 | magnuse | yup, i just added it to http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ploy_the_packages |
| 08:52 | kia ora Brooke | |
| 09:07 | chris_n` joined #koha | |
| 09:16 | Oak | Hello Brooke |
| 09:16 | Brooke | Oak :D |
| 09:16 | Oak | :] good to see you as always |
| 09:16 | Brooke | the feeling is mutual |
| 09:16 | Oak | Guten Tag kf |
| 09:17 | magnuse | |
| 09:17 | everyone | |
| 09:17 | wahanui | everyone is doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver |
| 09:18 | Oak | oh Brooke. well, what can I say. |
| 09:19 | * Brooke | titters. |
| 09:20 | Oak | :) |
| 09:20 | magnuse | Oak |
| 09:29 | kf | hi Oak :) |
| 09:29 | hi Brooke | |
| 09:29 | Oak | :^) |
| 09:30 | Brooke | 0/ |
| 09:36 | magnuse | time to vote, folks! http://survey.web2learning.net[…]dex.php?sid=63529 |
| 09:38 | Oak | done :) |
| 09:39 | magnuse | yay! |
| 09:39 | Oak | me go now. dentist appointment... |
| 09:40 | kf | ouch |
| 09:40 | good luck | |
| 09:41 | magnuse: do we have a deadline for the vote? | |
| 09:41 | Oak | thanks |
| 09:42 | magnuse | kf: october 1st was decided in a meeting a while back |
| 09:43 | kf | ah ok |
| 09:43 | that's soon | |
| 09:44 | magnuse | 2 weeks and a couple of days? |
| 09:44 | kf | yep |
| 09:45 | magnuse | i'd say that is plenty |
| 09:45 | but it might be possible to extend it, i guess | |
| 09:46 | rangi | i think thats plenty |
| 09:46 | but we probably need to say that in a follow up email? | |
| 09:46 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 09:47 | kf | and what the survey is about |
| 09:49 | magnuse | looks like git.koha-community.org has a problem |
| 10:14 | hdl | hi |
| 10:14 | magnuse | bonjour hdl |
| 10:14 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 10:16 | Guillaume joined #koha | |
| 10:22 | magnuse | that's twitter in english and norwegian, facebook, google+, my company website and the norwegian koha email-list done... anything i forgot? |
| 10:22 | rangi | heh nope |
| 10:27 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 10:28 | magnuse | forgot the wiki... |
| 10:29 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 10:44 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 10:44 | miguelxercode left #koha | |
| 10:50 | kf | magnuse++ |
| 10:59 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 11:19 | sekjal joined #koha | |
| 11:35 | juan_sieira_ joined #koha | |
| 11:53 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 12:05 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 12:08 | hdl1 joined #koha | |
| 12:12 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 12:13 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 12:15 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 12:16 | jwagner | Morning, folks. Got a question from one of my libraries. They've bought an iPad2 for staff use in the stacks and are trying to find a browser for it that would work with Koha. I've never used or even seen an iPad -- any ideas? |
| 12:17 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 12:22 | magnuse | jwagner: does that mean the default browser (safari?) does not work? |
| 12:22 | oleonard | it certainly should |
| 12:22 | jwagner | magnuse, I don't know -- didn't get that far with them. |
| 12:22 | They said they couldn't find a version of Firefox for it | |
| 12:23 | oleonard | They just don't understand that Safari is a standards-compliant browser. it will work. |
| 12:23 | jwagner | OK, good news, thanks. I'll tell them. |
| 12:23 | * magnuse | breathes a sigh of relief... |
| 12:26 | * oleonard | can use the Koha staff client on his first-generation iPod Touch |
| 12:26 | oleonard | ...although I wouldn't want to do cataloging with it :| |
| 12:26 | magnuse | hehe |
| 12:27 | jwagner | Then it should be fine. I'm not sure what they're going to do with it in the stacks. Play games? :-) |
| 12:27 | Or maybe take inventory, etc. | |
| 12:27 | magnuse | could be that ;-) |
| 12:27 | oleonard | I take the holds queue report with me while I pull books from the shelf |
| 12:28 | magnuse | http://lib1point5.wordpress.co[…]ad-in-my-library/ |
| 12:28 | "Free range librarians" | |
| 12:36 | oleonard | git.koha-community.org down? |
| 12:38 | magnuse | looked like it earlier today |
| 12:39 | kmkale_ joined #koha | |
| 12:43 | kmkale__ joined #koha | |
| 12:48 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 12:53 | sekjal joined #koha | |
| 12:53 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 12:59 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:00 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 13:01 | * oleonard | grumbles |
| 13:01 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:02 | hdl | hi oleonard |
| 13:02 | oleonard | Hi hdl |
| 13:02 | hdl | :D |
| 13:03 | sekjal | morning, everyone! |
| 13:04 | magnuse | kia ora sekjal |
| 13:06 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:09 | sekjal | just so everyone's aware, I'm rebooting git.koha-community.org, since it's stopped responding. hopefully won't take much longer to come back up |
| 13:10 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:11 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:14 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:15 | * kf | crosses fingers |
| 13:15 | kf | and hi sekjal |
| 13:16 | sekjal | back up |
| 13:16 | (hi kf) | |
| 13:18 | kf | yay :) |
| 13:18 | Danielle | o/ |
| 13:19 | kf | hi Danielle |
| 13:19 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
| 13:19 | kf | morning libsysguy |
| 13:20 | atz__ joined #koha | |
| 13:20 | kf | hi atz_ |
| 13:20 | libsysguy | morning kf |
| 13:21 | @later tell rangi not cool man...not cool | |
| 13:21 | huginn | libsysguy: The operation succeeded. |
| 13:21 | magnuse | what did rangi do now? |
| 13:21 | kf | causing earthquakes it seems |
| 13:21 | magnuse | ouch? |
| 13:22 | kf | ah no, that was someone else |
| 13:25 | libsysguy | he was sending me messages about vomit |
| 13:25 | typical rangi | |
| 13:25 | kf | ? |
| 13:25 | magnuse | not sure i want to know the rest of it... ;-) |
| 13:26 | libsysguy | I have a super weak stomach when it comes to blood and puke |
| 13:26 | so he spammed me with puke comments | |
| 13:26 | haha | |
| 13:27 | kf | yeah, sounds like rangi |
| 13:27 | libsysguy | heh |
| 13:27 | yeah it does | |
| 13:27 | kf | and still... we like him |
| 13:28 | libsysguy | because he pushes our packages |
| 13:28 | we really shouldn't take that last comment out of context | |
| 13:28 | heh | |
| 13:29 | kf | nah, not only because of pushing our patches |
| 13:30 | libsysguy | because of his excellent selection of soundcloud music? |
| 13:30 | jk I have love for rangi too | |
| 13:30 | kf | see, there is one reason |
| 13:30 | kmkale_ joined #koha | |
| 13:30 | kf | jk? |
| 13:31 | Danielle | heh |
| 13:31 | libsysguy | jk = just kidding |
| 13:32 | what is collin's username? | |
| 13:32 | colin** | |
| 13:32 | kf | @seen Colin |
| 13:32 | huginn | kf: Colin was last seen in #koha 36 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Colin> Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe Ltd |
| 13:32 | libsysguy | wow... |
| 13:32 | Colin++ for my hourly patch | |
| 13:32 | kf | @seen ColinC |
| 13:32 | huginn | kf: ColinC was last seen in #koha 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 7 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <ColinC> +1 |
| 13:33 | kf | oh |
| 13:33 | was he abelt o fix your problemß | |
| 13:33 | libsysguy | it looks like it...and he used my suggestion so that basically makes me happy |
| 13:34 | I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid | |
| 13:34 | Guillaume joined #koha | |
| 13:34 | kf | lol |
| 13:35 | @quote add libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid | |
| 13:35 | huginn | kf: The operation succeeded. Quote #155 added. |
| 13:35 | kf | and a nice number you got! |
| 13:35 | @quote show 155 | |
| 13:35 | huginn | kf: downloading the Perl source |
| 13:35 | kf | @quote 155 |
| 13:35 | huginn | kf: I suck |
| 13:35 | kf | grrr |
| 13:35 | magnuse | @quote get 155 |
| 13:35 | huginn | magnuse: Quote #155: "libsysguy: I always hate touching somebody else's code that they are currently working on...its like asking someone if you can hold their kid" (added by kf at 01:35 PM, September 15, 2011) |
| 13:35 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 13:35 | kf | get |
| 13:35 | ... time to go home | |
| 13:35 | libsysguy | haha later kf |
| 13:36 | kf | yep for the meeting :) |
| 13:36 | bye! | |
| 13:36 | kf left #koha | |
| 13:37 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 13:38 | Oak | hello #koha |
| 13:38 | Danielle | Hi Oak |
| 13:38 | magnuse | Oak |
| 13:39 | Oak | oh hello Danielle :) |
| 13:39 | magnuse | |
| 13:40 | Danielle, where are you from? | |
| 13:40 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 13:41 | maximep joined #koha | |
| 13:42 | trea joined #koha | |
| 13:51 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6872] Can't set default SMS messaging options when defining a patron category <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6872> |
| 13:53 | Danielle | Oak: North Carolina, USA. |
| 13:53 | Oak: If it helps matters, I used to use "agentdani" here." | |
| 13:53 | Oak | aah |
| 13:53 | yes, it helped. | |
| 13:54 | Agent Dani is what I'm familiar with | |
| 13:54 | Danielle | :D |
| 13:54 | rhcl_away | hey oak, what's up? |
| 13:55 | Oak | nothing much rhcl_away :) |
| 13:55 | electricity will probably go out in 2 minutes... | |
| 13:55 | it's 6:59 pm here... so nothing much. listening to music. | |
| 13:56 | what about you rhcl_away ? | |
| 14:02 | cait joined #koha | |
| 14:02 | rhcl_away | same old stuff here |
| 14:03 | rhcl | oh, he's gone |
| 14:04 | cait | hi rhcl, hi koha |
| 14:14 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 14:15 | rhcl | hi hi cait |
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| 14:32 | cait joined #koha | |
| 14:36 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6842] Branch transfer limits broken <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6842> |
| 14:37 | cait | oh good |
| 14:38 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 14:53 | gmcharlt | verify, a miracle has occurred - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/s[…]bug.cgi?id=454532 |
| 14:53 | huginn | 04Bug 454532: was not found. |
| 14:54 | gmcharlt | *verily |
| 14:55 | libsysguy | ok so we've been having this issue with hourly loans and fines since the fines script runs in the cron |
| 14:55 | it is rather bothersom when you have to tell a patron that they have to wait 30 minutes to pay their overdue fine | |
| 14:55 | * wizzyrea | doesn't understand the context of gmcharlt's chorus of angels |
| 14:56 | libsysguy | so I'm wondering if anyone is opposed to adding a call to see if overdues and fines when an item is turned in |
| 14:56 | wizzyrea | libsysguy: true |
| 14:56 | or a separate cron for hourly loans | |
| 14:56 | libsysguy | even then there is still a delay |
| 14:56 | this would make it instant | |
| 14:56 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: the upshot is that it fixes a rather longstanding bug in Firefox (and xulrunner) that could play hash with trying to print on old receipt printers |
| 14:57 | wizzyrea | AHA |
| 14:57 | libsysguy | and reduce load on the system by reducing the amount of calls to fines |
| 14:57 | * wizzyrea | doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion |
| 14:57 | rhcl | gmcharlt: does the OS matter (bug sez XP)? |
| 14:58 | libsysguy | hmm sekjal you around with an opinion |
| 14:58 | gmcharlt | rhcl: I suspect it applies to any recent windows |
| 14:58 | oleonard | libsysguy: That seems like an awfully open-ended question. |
| 14:58 | libsysguy | oh God...what have I done |
| 14:59 | sekjal | libsysguy: there has been some call for doing a fines calculation on-demand, instead of just on cron |
| 14:59 | rhcl | I really want to become the world expert on printing from linux/koha to receipt printers. We've been unsuccessful so far, and I need to take a look at the issue. |
| 14:59 | libsysguy | sekjal will have syslock when he starts typing with all his opinions :p |
| 14:59 | sekjal I think there will be more of a call when we push hourly | |
| 14:59 | sekjal | agreed |
| 15:00 | so it can either be event driven (checkin, etc) or scheduled (on cron) | |
| 15:00 | libsysguy | so do you think it should be a separate bug or included in hourly. Also I think it should be both |
| 15:00 | wizzyrea | I, for one, would have to *know* that it wasn't going to make checkin excessively slow |
| 15:00 | libsysguy | just a nightly cron |
| 15:01 | sekjal | cron is kind of limited, since you have to schedule it, and there is at least 1 min max wait-time |
| 15:01 | and running it every minute could produce a lot of excess load on the system | |
| 15:01 | libsysguy | well it would be the time to do an overdue lookup on that item then the time to run calcfine |
| 15:01 | i can run 300+ overdues in under 15 s | |
| 15:01 | sekjal exactly | |
| 15:01 | maximep joined #koha | |
| 15:01 | libsysguy | that is why I have it set to 30 mins currently |
| 15:02 | but that is making the librarians mad | |
| 15:02 | and are sharpening their pitchforks | |
| 15:02 | sekjal | what system events would we want to trigger on? |
| 15:02 | checkin is a good candidate | |
| 15:02 | patron details page load? | |
| 15:03 | libsysguy | I think checkin is a must |
| 15:03 | wizzyrea | patron fines page load |
| 15:03 | not details | |
| 15:03 | (imo) | |
| 15:03 | libsysguy | how about anywhere the overdues check gets called? |
| 15:03 | that makes logical sense (imo) | |
| 15:04 | wizzyrea | it makes sense to me to do it anywhere you could do something with a fine |
| 15:04 | so, fines tab, really. | |
| 15:04 | sekjal | ideally, I'd like it to be up to date every time you check, no matter what vector you come in from |
| 15:04 | libsysguy | ^^ |
| 15:04 | wizzyrea | the details page only shows the total due |
| 15:05 | on it's fines tab | |
| 15:05 | I'd just as soon get rid of that tab, as the fines tab on the side shows the detail view | |
| 15:05 | libsysguy | I also agree with that |
| 15:05 | sekjal | put it behind an AJAX-y widget |
| 15:06 | * sekjal | <3's his vaporware AJAX widgets |
| 15:07 | wizzyrea | http://screencast.com/t/izGTBVF1a |
| 15:08 | sekjal | that tab is pretty useless |
| 15:08 | wizzyrea | *nod* idk why anybody would use it, honestly |
| 15:08 | the others are fie | |
| 15:09 | fine* | |
| 15:09 | oleonard | Instant gratification? |
| 15:09 | cait | to see te total quickly |
| 15:09 | I think it's ok where it is | |
| 15:09 | we have it in the patron account too (and sometimes I hide the fines tab there because it's so confusng and untranslated) | |
| 15:09 | libsysguy | but the total is below all the charges |
| 15:10 | wizzyrea | and it slows down the load of that page |
| 15:10 | cait | libsysguy: I think the important thing is that the fine does not show up on return - but in the moment it occurs |
| 15:10 | wizzyrea | and we have a whole beautiful tab |
| 15:10 | devoted to fines | |
| 15:10 | cait | libsysguy: if this can not be done reasonable with a cron we need another solution |
| 15:11 | libsysguy | then I think we need another solution |
| 15:11 | cait | wizzyrea: another reason: because when you print that page |
| 15:11 | wizzyrea: you can give the patron a lot of the information that is saved about him in the system | |
| 15:11 | libsysguy | because with hourly it will be almost impossible to catch the fine when it occurs |
| 15:11 | cait | and that is something we need to be able to do |
| 15:11 | * wizzyrea | wonders if the print page is actually dependent on what is shown on this page |
| 15:11 | libsysguy | you will always have to be watching |
| 15:12 | cait | the tabs print differently |
| 15:12 | hm | |
| 15:12 | wizzyrea: perhaps you are right | |
| 15:12 | about removing it | |
| 15:13 | but I always kind of liked it | |
| 15:14 | melia joined #koha | |
| 15:15 | wizzyrea | it doesn't have any functionality that I can discern, besides showing the total? |
| 15:15 | sekjal | I think for hourly, we'll either need to run fines on a minutely cron, or else have a daemon |
| 15:15 | cait | *giggles* |
| 15:16 | wizzyrea | cait we're talking about print -> print page, righ |
| 15:16 | right? | |
| 15:17 | libsysguy | why can't we just run the overdue function when we do a checkin? |
| 15:17 | cait | we were |
| 15:17 | wizzyrea | ok then yea |
| 15:17 | that comes from a diff template | |
| 15:17 | cait | libsysguy: because you will still want to calculate and report on fines before that |
| 15:17 | libsysguy | right |
| 15:17 | so run a nightly cron | |
| 15:17 | wizzyrea | well a compromise would be |
| 15:17 | libsysguy | just like you would now |
| 15:18 | wizzyrea | if the loan is hourly, compute the fine now |
| 15:18 | cait | or that deamon thing |
| 15:18 | wizzyrea | if not |
| 15:18 | don't | |
| 15:18 | cait | sounds fun too |
| 15:18 | i was just reading about daemons - that's why I was giggling | |
| 15:18 | wizzyrea | but i'm not sure there's a way to differentiate a type of loan |
| 15:18 | * cait | is reading 'city of glass' |
| 15:18 | wizzyrea | oo |
| 15:19 | cait | horizon did that |
| 15:19 | calculated the hourly loans on return | |
| 15:19 | but people never knew what was waiting for them in the library | |
| 15:19 | libsysguy | so did symphony |
| 15:19 | cait I don't understand | |
| 15:19 | cait | and you could not send out notices for the fines with the amounts in them |
| 15:20 | and it was all kind of trouble | |
| 15:20 | waiting = fines waiting | |
| 15:20 | unpleasant surprises | |
| 15:20 | sekjal | our circulation rules are configured so that fines accrue on a schedule |
| 15:20 | possibly because of history | |
| 15:20 | but also, that makes sense | |
| 15:20 | cait | answering questions like: why can i see that fine but not the other on my borrower account and so on |
| 15:20 | oh | |
| 15:20 | sekjal | every X minutes, charge Y fee |
| 15:21 | since hourly loans is really minutely-loans, we need a minutely cron to preserve what we're doing | |
| 15:21 | wizzyrea | http://screencast.com/t/SPQT626KqBg for cait |
| 15:21 | is what print page looks like | |
| 15:22 | cait | from fines? |
| 15:22 | tag? | |
| 15:22 | tab? | |
| 15:22 | wizzyrea | nope, from the patron detail page |
| 15:22 | cait | ah |
| 15:22 | looks nice | |
| 15:22 | wizzyrea | well, from all tabs |
| 15:22 | it calls a totally separate template | |
| 15:22 | cait | but that's checkouts, right? |
| 15:22 | not fines, address, holds and all that | |
| 15:22 | oh, I see | |
| 15:22 | does that make sense? | |
| 15:23 | why not use a print css? | |
| 15:23 | libsysguy | sekjal do we really charge based on that |
| 15:23 | I thought it was every X minutes check for new fines | |
| 15:23 | -> apply them | |
| 15:23 | miguelxercode left #koha | |
| 15:23 | wizzyrea | all good questions, not sure I have answers |
| 15:23 | sekjal | libsysguy: yes, true |
| 15:24 | wizzyrea | but, what I mean is |
| 15:24 | the tab on the patron detail | |
| 15:24 | shows less detail than the print page | |
| 15:24 | so the printing argument, I don't think it holds | |
| 15:24 | libsysguy | so I guess I'm a little confused as to what you are proposing we do with the daemon |
| 15:25 | cait | wizzyrea: ok :) |
| 15:25 | libsysguy: immediate fining! | |
| 15:25 | wizzyrea | not trying to be a jerk or anything |
| 15:25 | :) | |
| 15:26 | libsysguy | but wouldn't doing a system call do the same thing? |
| 15:27 | * wizzyrea | imagines steam coming out of libsysguy's ears |
| 15:27 | wizzyrea | :) |
| 15:27 | libsysguy | basically |
| 15:27 | sekjal | I'm looking at all as triggers and actions |
| 15:27 | libsysguy | its been a rough morning |
| 15:27 | * wizzyrea | gives libsysguy a hot cup of tea and a cookie |
| 15:28 | * libsysguy | accepts wizzyrea's tokens |
| 15:28 | wizzyrea | and permission to wield the double bird and spin |
| 15:28 | sekjal | if we only triggered on checkin or overdues or the loading of the patrons' fine page, then any other vector for approaching the question "what fines does this patron have AS OF RIGHT NOW?" wouldn't be accurate |
| 15:28 | it would be on us to think of every single place where that question could be asked, and include the logic to update the fines before asking | |
| 15:29 | libsysguy | oh...well I was thinking that we would still be running the cron and those checkin operations |
| 15:29 | sekjal | a more thorough method would be to do this on a cron every minute, or with a daemon |
| 15:29 | * libsysguy | is a daemon newb :'( |
| 15:29 | reiveune | bye |
| 15:29 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 15:29 | wizzyrea | seriously has anyone ever heard him say anything but bye? |
| 15:29 | sekjal | I imagine the daemon option is not going to be very viable |
| 15:29 | libsysguy | not I |
| 15:30 | sekjal | for systems with many, many overdues, keeping track of all those patrons in the daemon's memory would be... expensive |
| 15:30 | wizzyrea | ^^ |
| 15:30 | libsysguy | I think setting the cron to run every minute is also very expensive |
| 15:30 | sekjal | yes |
| 15:30 | unless it's a VERY efficient cron | |
| 15:30 | wizzyrea | could hourly have it's own minute - running cron? |
| 15:30 | sekjal | s/cron/script/ |
| 15:31 | wizzyrea | something that only looks at short-term loans |
| 15:32 | libsysguy | so the issue I see with minutely cron is that when a patron checks in and they are overdue there is still a possible 60s window for not fines being charged |
| 15:32 | sekjal | yes |
| 15:32 | but that may be unavoidable | |
| 15:32 | and how much is a patron charged per second? | |
| 15:33 | libsysguy | if they are overdue by a second its a 50 cent fine then its based on whatever interval |
| 15:33 | sekjal | is it really worth it to be that draconian? |
| 15:33 | libsysguy | but I think the real issue that I have is a patron would have to stand at the circ desk for an additional (possible) minute to pay thier fine |
| 15:34 | to the librarians I work with...yes | |
| 15:34 | wizzyrea | this is a people issue |
| 15:34 | not a technology problem | |
| 15:34 | libsysguy | ^^ |
| 15:34 | wizzyrea | if they know that people are x minutes overdue |
| 15:34 | or they are 30s late with their return | |
| 15:34 | they know they'r going to get a 50c fine | |
| 15:34 | why not take the money | |
| 15:34 | and apply it once the fine appears | |
| 15:34 | libsysguy | sorry...I don't mean to sound so animated about this |
| 15:34 | wizzyrea | all good :) |
| 15:35 | libsysguy | I brought that up |
| 15:35 | but then they have to remember | |
| 15:35 | wizzyrea | for a single minute :) |
| 15:35 | libsysguy | and when the line is long that could turn into 15 |
| 15:35 | wizzyrea | and in most cases lest |
| 15:35 | less | |
| 15:35 | sekjal | libsysguy: perhaps explaining to them how many hours it's going to take to fix this, and the hourly cost of development, and weigh that in terms of how much extra money they'll wind up bringing in with fines |
| 15:35 | wizzyrea | ^^ |
| 15:36 | sekjal | I mean, 50 cents per second is a pretty good hourly rate |
| 15:36 | * magnuse | buts in to remind everyone to vote for KohaCon12 location http://survey.web2learning.net[…]dex.php?sid=63529 |
| 15:36 | libsysguy | but what I am proposing is no change to the current cron system and one extra call in the checkin function |
| 15:36 | wizzyrea | well, 50 cents for the first second overdue |
| 15:36 | * magnuse | buts out agin |
| 15:36 | wizzyrea | then 50 cents per minute, right? |
| 15:37 | basically, the fine is applied at the beginning of every minute, instead of the end | |
| 15:38 | sekjal | libsysguy: so, keep the minutely cron, and also have a manual update call when the patron page loans? so those last-minute fines are guaranteed to show up? |
| 15:38 | * oleonard | wonders if all the people who voted in the KohaCon11 survey will be voting this time |
| 15:38 | libsysguy | right |
| 15:39 | (I think) | |
| 15:39 | wizzyrea | the patron page or the fines tab? |
| 15:39 | libsysguy | the patrons page only |
| 15:39 | wizzyrea | I think fines tab, because you have to go there to pay fines anyway |
| 15:39 | libsysguy | details |
| 15:39 | wizzyrea | if they're trying to pay the fine they just got |
| 15:39 | libsysguy | or...acutally just on check in |
| 15:39 | wizzyrea | that's the only place to do it |
| 15:39 | sekjal | what about checkout? |
| 15:39 | libsysguy | why not just update when the barcode is scanned in |
| 15:40 | sekjal | what if that extra 50 cents just put them over the maximum limit, and they're now blocked? |
| 15:40 | libsysguy | what about checkout? |
| 15:41 | so they have an item that seconds before they checkout another item goes overdue | |
| 15:41 | and a fine gets assessed | |
| 15:41 | * wizzyrea | wonders idly how other ils's dealt with the problem |
| 15:41 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 15:41 | wizzyrea | gmcharlt does evergreen do hourly loans yet? |
| 15:42 | * libsysguy | was doing that same thing wizzyrea |
| 15:42 | wizzyrea | i'll give it a minute then ask in #evergreen ;) |
| 15:42 | cait | and total on the details page... |
| 15:43 | wizzyrea | ok wait a sec |
| 15:43 | sorry I had a thought and then someone walked in | |
| 15:43 | >.< | |
| 15:44 | so now it's gone. | |
| 15:44 | bleh | |
| 15:44 | libsysguy | x_x |
| 15:48 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: yep (actually, it has for a long time) |
| 15:48 | wizzyrea | gmcharlt, do you have a minute to enlighten us as to how it works? |
| 15:48 | with minutely fines | |
| 15:50 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: basically, fines are calculated one of two ways -- via a cron job (for generating estimated fines) and upon checkin |
| 15:51 | wizzyrea | there you have it :) |
| 15:51 | gmcharlt | at the point of checkout, a loan in Evergreen records it's fining interval, which can be expressed as any valid interval |
| 15:51 | libsysguy | that is exactly what I was proposing I thought |
| 15:52 | gmcharlt | and that gets used when calculating the number of fine billings to add |
| 15:52 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 15:52 | Oak | hello #koha |
| 15:53 | wizzyrea | and that process is the same for every item? |
| 15:53 | Oak | Evening cait |
| 15:53 | libsysguy | btw sekjal...of you are interested in just how crazy the people I work with are just ask druthb lol |
| 15:53 | wizzyrea | not just hourlies, but regular checkins too |
| 15:53 | libsysguy: I only have the requirement that it doesn't inordinately slow down checkin. | |
| 15:54 | the rest, idc about as much. | |
| 15:54 | sekjal | wizzyrea: it would add whatever processing time it takes to run the fines update subroutine |
| 15:54 | wizzyrea | I do think that the fines tab on the patron detail is pointless |
| 15:54 | sekjal | so, as long as that's as efficient as possible.... |
| 15:55 | wizzyrea | checkouts and holds make sense to me :) |
| 15:55 | but not the fines tab | |
| 15:55 | but that's kind of a separate issue | |
| 15:55 | thanks gmcharlt | |
| 15:55 | very enlightening | |
| 15:55 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 15:56 | libsysguy | so basically don't add more than a second to checkin...got it :) |
| 15:56 | wizzyrea | yes, exactly. |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: sekjal: one thing about calculating fines on checkin -- that *is* something that's been the target of various performance tweaks over the years to avoid too much of a performance penalty when checking in an item that has been long overdue |
| 15:57 | wizzyrea | which is why I was wondering if a check to see if the fine *needed* to be calculated now (in the case of a per-minute loan, for example) might be faster than calculating for everything |
| 15:58 | that crosses the scanner gun | |
| 15:59 | cait | perhaps it could be an option? |
| 15:59 | if we are going to keep the cron and other libraries are not so crazy about fines? | |
| 16:00 | fine calculation on checkin I mean | |
| 16:00 | sekjal | cait++ |
| 16:00 | francharb left #koha | |
| 16:00 | wizzyrea | yea that's a good idea |
| 16:01 | and with that, I bid you adieu - i'm off to talk to librarians about online security | |
| 16:01 | cait | :) |
| 16:01 | hf | |
| 16:01 | gmcharlt | cait: and possibly a session option - if you're checking in a bunch of items from the bookdrop, you don't necessarily need the fines to be calculated instantly |
| 16:01 | libsysguy | or you could do it on itemtype |
| 16:01 | cait | gmcharlt: makes sense! |
| 16:01 | gmcharlt | whereas if a patron is standing in front of you wondering if they're going to ahve to take out a second mortgage, enable on the spot calculation |
| 16:01 | cait | hehe |
| 16:02 | gmcharlt | of course, however it gets done, it does all need to be finsihed up before fine notices are sent out that day |
| 16:02 | cait | hm, but will the checkin fine not be harder to him then? |
| 16:02 | because it will catch even a second more lateness? | |
| 16:03 | gmcharlt | cait: the calculation would have to be based on the checkin timestamp, even if the calculation itself occurs later |
| 16:03 | cait | hm |
| 16:03 | libsysguy | ^^ |
| 16:03 | cait | i woul dthink |
| 16:03 | and think this is like it worked for us | |
| 16:03 | gmcharlt | of course, somebody who drops an hourly loan into the book drop ... perhaps deserves what they get charged ;) |
| 16:03 | cait | that checked in items should not get fines |
| 16:03 | never | |
| 16:03 | JoeLib001 joined #koha | |
| 16:04 | cait | so if someone checks the book on before the cronjob does its round - he is ok with the fine that was on the book on checkin |
| 16:07 | JoeLib001 | Hi, I am looking for information on Migrating Data for Serials Titles from an Excel file to Koha. Is there a tutorial or even a pointer in the right direction? I have Koha installed correctly and I am able to add bib records and attach subscriptions to those. |
| 16:10 | Is there a good explanation of what should go in each MySQL Table and Field? | |
| 16:11 | cait | I think for serials not yet |
| 16:11 | I woul dadd some subscriptions into koha and try to figure out from there | |
| 16:11 | schema.koha-community.org | |
| 16:11 | will show you the tables, but not all tables have been commented yet | |
| 16:14 | JoeLib001 | Thanks for the pointer. :-) I will poke my head in the hole and hope it's not for a guillotine. hehe. :-) |
| 16:15 | laurence left #koha | |
| 16:31 | kmkale | hi cait gmcharlt |
| 16:33 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 16:34 | cait | hi kmkale |
| 16:34 | gmcharlt | hi kmkale |
| 16:35 | kmkale | hi paul_p |
| 17:02 | libsysguy | what function(s) controls checkin/checkout |
| 17:02 | sekjal | checkin: AddReturn() |
| 17:03 | checkout: AddIssue() | |
| 17:04 | libsysguy | sekjal++ |
| 17:06 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 17:12 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 17:12 | Brooke | kia ora |
| 17:12 | irctc626 joined #koha | |
| 17:17 | aogle joined #koha | |
| 17:17 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5549] Hourly Loans <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5549> |
| 17:39 | Webuser208 joined #koha | |
| 17:42 | Brooke | marthakanter++ |
| 17:43 | miguel joined #koha | |
| 17:54 | juan_sieira_ joined #koha | |
| 17:59 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 17:59 | miguelxercode left #koha | |
| 18:01 | cait | here |
| 18:02 | slef | cait: there? |
| 18:02 | wahanui | somebody said there was no spoon. |
| 18:02 | sekjal | and this is why we keep you around, wahanui |
| 18:02 | wahanui | ...but this is something we have to talk about... |
| 18:03 | oleonard-away | wahanui has turned into a chat bot |
| 18:03 | wahanui | oleonard-away: excuse me? |
| 18:03 | cait | slef: hi slef |
| 18:03 | Brooke | wahanui forget this |
| 18:03 | wahanui | Brooke: I forgot this |
| 18:03 | cait | only showing libsysguy I am here :P |
| 18:03 | chris_n` joined #koha | |
| 18:04 | slef | wahanui: rangi? |
| 18:04 | wahanui | I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! or at work |
| 18:04 | Brooke | forget rangi |
| 18:04 | wahanui | Brooke: I forgot rangi |
| 18:04 | cait | no Brooke... |
| 18:04 | slef | who is supposedly running this meeting |
| 18:05 | cait | rangi is I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! |
| 18:05 | rangi? | |
| 18:05 | wahanui | somebody said rangi was I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! |
| 18:05 | cait | hm |
| 18:05 | slef | Brooke is the lobotomy-mistress |
| 18:05 | cait | forget rangi |
| 18:05 | wahanui | cait: I forgot rangi |
| 18:05 | cait | Brooke: you broke the joke |
| 18:05 | rangi <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! | |
| 18:05 | slef | wahanui: rangi is <reply> I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! |
| 18:05 | wahanui | OK, slef. |
| 18:05 | Brooke | I also broke the interwebs, so watch it ;) |
| 18:05 | cait | rangi? |
| 18:05 | wahanui | I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! |
| 18:05 | cait | phew |
| 18:05 | we saved the world | |
| 18:05 | slef | cait is our saviour |
| 18:05 | cait | slef: I thought libsysguy |
| 18:06 | slef | who? |
| 18:06 | ah, wahanui is too smart | |
| 18:06 | miguel joined #koha | |
| 18:06 | cait | wondering where he is |
| 18:06 | Brooke | natec? |
| 18:06 | wahanui | I LIKE SPACE! |
| 18:06 | cait | hm sekjal? |
| 18:06 | wahanui | hmmm... sekjal is someone's favorite propeller-head. |
| 18:07 | sekjal | I'm here |
| 18:07 | sans propeller | |
| 18:07 | slef | I mean, http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Notifications_RFC sort of fits into a general need to overhaul and generalise notifications doesn't it? Multiple notice types, multiple send methods, consistent TT templating |
| 18:07 | cait | yeah |
| 18:07 | Brooke | slef get to the meeting later ;) |
| 18:07 | cait | but that's not bad |
| 18:07 | slef | dare I mention hooks or triggers again? I don't think I've tried that for a few years |
| 18:08 | cait | dreaming up what we want it to do |
| 18:08 | Brooke | mention away |
| 18:08 | cait | now we have to find a way to get it done |
| 18:08 | * Brooke | agrees with cait. |
| 18:08 | cait | in the database? |
| 18:08 | we talked about actions and triggers | |
| 18:08 | but more flexible than the notice triggers are now | |
| 18:08 | slef | nah, in the modules (in the koha sense, not the perl sense) |
| 18:08 | cait | some notices wired to actions, like checkout, checkin etc. |
| 18:08 | Brooke | http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 |
| 18:09 | cait | slef: only wanted to make sure :) |
| 18:09 | slef | oh wait I'm being dense |
| 18:09 | Brooke | I'm chronically dense. At least your condition is acute. |
| 18:10 | slef | awww, I'm a cute? |
| 18:10 | Brooke | nope. That'd get me in trouble with the little missus. |
| 18:10 | slef | the OO way is probably to replace the C4 class with something that extends it and adds the extra actions you want |
| 18:10 | as well as a call back to the C4 class | |
| 18:11 | the bit I forget is how to make your extended class get called instead of the C4 base one | |
| 18:11 | the other way to do it is with hooks, like wordpress | |
| 18:11 | cait | now you confused me |
| 18:12 | you should talk to ian like that :) | |
| 18:12 | * sekjal | isn't good with OO Perl yet |
| 18:12 | slef | http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API#Hooks.2C_Actions_and_Filters |
| 18:12 | cait: I confuse myself. Why should you escape? | |
| 18:12 | sekjal | but Wordpress's hooks and filters are pretty great. I'd like to see more of that |
| 18:13 | cait | slef: good reasoning |
| 18:13 | slef | sekjal: they're awful PHP kludges trying to make up for a braindead implementation environment. Python does this so much better. Aha! That's how we do it! |
| 18:13 | sekjal | migrate Koha to Python? |
| 18:13 | slef | nah, but same method will work |
| 18:14 | in python we do things like this | |
| 18:14 | * slef | rummages |
| 18:14 | cait | uhoh |
| 18:14 | slef | http://packages.python.org/dja[…]/setup.html#setup |
| 18:14 | libsysguy | hey guys |
| 18:15 | slef | so we have TEMPLATE_CONTEXT_PROCESSORS that say what modules do the templating |
| 18:15 | Brooke | hi dude |
| 18:15 | libsysguy | sorry I had someone in my office |
| 18:15 | slef | libsysguy: fnarr |
| 18:15 | Brooke | use the trap door, I keep tellin' ye. |
| 18:15 | slef | oh I used to have a good trick |
| 18:15 | cait | keep the headset on |
| 18:15 | slef | screen facing the door, Moire screensaver kicking in after 2mins |
| 18:15 | cait | and pretend you are on the phone? |
| 18:16 | slef | few people can stand psychadelia over the shoulder of the person they're trying to talk to |
| 18:16 | which let me interrupt and move the conversation to its conclusion | |
| 18:16 | so libsysguy are you OK with the meetingbot? | |
| 18:17 | libsysguy | meetingbot? |
| 18:17 | yeah sure i guess | |
| 18:17 | cait | the bot we use to log irc meetings |
| 18:17 | libsysguy | oh yeah thats coo |
| 18:18 | Brooke | http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot |
| 18:18 | * cait | volunteers slef to chair |
| 18:18 | slef | wahanui: meetingbot? |
| 18:18 | wahanui | wish i knew, slef |
| 18:18 | slef | wahanui: meetbot instructions? |
| 18:18 | wahanui | i don't know, slef |
| 18:18 | Brooke | so easy a caveman like me can use it. |
| 18:18 | slef | wahanui: meetbot? |
| 18:18 | wahanui | wish i knew, slef |
| 18:18 | * slef | kills wahanui |
| 18:18 | Brooke | wahanui meetbot is http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot |
| 18:18 | wahanui | OK, Brooke. |
| 18:18 | cait | oh no, you don't |
| 18:18 | libsysguy | bad slef |
| 18:18 | cait | he is still small |
| 18:18 | be nice | |
| 18:19 | slef | wahanui: meetbot is also http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.[…]ha-td3264811.html |
| 18:19 | wahanui | okay, slef. |
| 18:19 | Brooke | I dun wanna be nice, he resembles his namesake XD |
| 18:19 | * sekjal | wishes he could share his dry erase board live with everyone |
| 18:19 | slef | hrm, not sure I should chair... can't promise I won't go to dinner |
| 18:19 | Brooke | twitpic! |
| 18:19 | libsysguy | that would be cool |
| 18:19 | cait | there are programs for that, you know |
| 18:19 | slef | sekjal: http://whiteboard.debian.net/ |
| 18:20 | Brooke | slef: no pictahs |
| 18:20 | libsysguy | we use lync here with whiteoard sharing |
| 18:20 | works pretty well | |
| 18:21 | sekjal | we've got several pieces identified from last meeting |
| 18:21 | slef | pretty sure it doesn't ;-) |
| 18:21 | sekjal | and I think a diagram would be the best way to show the relationships between them |
| 18:21 | slef | ok, shall I start as chair and drop cait or Brooke in it if I leave? |
| 18:21 | libsysguy | cool with me |
| 18:21 | slef | Do we have an agenda, time limits or something like? |
| 18:21 | cait | me too |
| 18:21 | not yet | |
| 18:22 | slef | #startmeeting |
| 18:22 | huginn | Meeting started Thu Sep 15 18:22:02 2011 UTC. The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 18:22 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | |
| 18:22 | cait | last time we created the document |
| 18:22 | altogether | |
| 18:22 | slef | #chair cait Brooke |
| 18:22 | huginn | Current chairs: Brooke cait slef |
| 18:22 | cait | not sure we can make that work agai nfor us |
| 18:22 | slef | ok, is that what's on the wiki? |
| 18:22 | cait | probably need more of a chat this time - but we could still use the tool |
| 18:22 | sekjal | #info last meeting's document found at: http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 |
| 18:22 | slef | #topic Introductions |
| 18:22 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions | |
| 18:23 | slef | please introduce yourself with #info if you want to be recorded |
| 18:23 | sekjal | #info Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions, Koha 3.6 QA Manager |
| 18:23 | libsysguy | #info Elliott Davis, University of Texas at Tyler, Developer |
| 18:23 | cait | hm |
| 18:23 | slef | #info MJ Ray, software.coop, delaying dinner because this stuff's important, you know? |
| 18:23 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer |
| 18:24 | slef | ok, late entrants can intro themselves later |
| 18:24 | #topic What we want to cover this meeting | |
| 18:24 | Topic for #koha is now What we want to cover this meeting | |
| 18:24 | slef | so sekjal has pasted a link to something |
| 18:25 | it's not loading for me... I'm just going to kick browser permissions to try to see it... | |
| 18:25 | libsysguy | right the link to the collaboration document |
| 18:25 | Brooke | #link http://typewith.me/3gYf6ozqf4 |
| 18:25 | cait | I thought it was on the wiki too, but can't find it right now |
| 18:25 | libsysguy | it was there |
| 18:25 | Brooke | the wiki was revolting |
| 18:26 | libsysguy | but the other day I checked and it was gone |
| 18:26 | Brooke | it kept handling things like i was editing a template |
| 18:26 | so chris moved stuff | |
| 18:26 | slef | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]Notifications_RFC |
| 18:26 | Brooke | but really, someone should fix the forkin wiki |
| 18:26 | slef | is what I saw |
| 18:26 | cait | that's the document that was started from the mailing list thread |
| 18:26 | the typewithme is from our first meeting | |
| 18:27 | slef | Brooke: I think I'm compelled to say about all mediawiki problems: I told you so. ;-) |
| 18:27 | Brooke | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]aging_rewrite_RFC |
| 18:27 | libsysguy | so in this meeting we are supposed to start planning the steps right? |
| 18:27 | slef | that seems like a good idea |
| 18:27 | sekjal | I'm looking at data structure first |
| 18:28 | libsysguy | did you say you had that on a whiteboard sekjal? |
| 18:28 | sekjal | I'm drawing it on the one on my wall behind my desk |
| 18:28 | libsysguy | haha you need one of those smartboards |
| 18:28 | cait | hm |
| 18:28 | sekjal | yes |
| 18:28 | cait | make us a phoot? |
| 18:28 | photo... | |
| 18:28 | slef | http://imgur.com/ or similar? |
| 18:28 | libsysguy | because I am having trouble seeing the one on your desk |
| 18:29 | cait | I know what you mean,might need new glasses |
| 18:29 | ;) | |
| 18:29 | libsysguy | or we could huddle in G+ and watch sekjal on his webcam |
| 18:29 | sekjal | I could turn on my webcam, but... then you'd see the rest of my horrible office |
| 18:29 | slef | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]aging_rewrite_RFC |
| 18:29 | * cait | chants webcam webcam.. |
| 18:29 | * libsysguy | joins cait's chat....webcam webcam... |
| 18:30 | slef | there I've showed you mine, now you show me yours |
| 18:30 | magnus_away: we can seeeeee you | |
| 18:31 | So which came first? The Notifications RFC, then the Messaging_rewrite_RFC? | |
| 18:31 | libsysguy | yes |
| 18:31 | cait | correct |
| 18:31 | i think the second should have most points from the first | |
| 18:32 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 18:32 | Brooke | I was gonna link them, and initially both were on the same page, but like I said, stuff got moved. |
| 18:33 | sekjal | okay, so we've got some key pieces of the puzzle to link together |
| 18:33 | slef | #topic Planning the steps to implement this |
| 18:33 | Topic for #koha is now Planning the steps to implement this | |
| 18:34 | sekjal | we've got the various kinds of messages we want to send (overdue, due, hold placed, claim, etc etc) |
| 18:34 | and we want to be able to have different templates for those messages depending on several factors | |
| 18:35 | {itemtype, branchcode,patroncategory} | |
| 18:35 | messages can also be delivered in several ways: print, email, SMS, RSS, etc | |
| 18:35 | each deliver method can support 1 or more message formats | |
| 18:36 | cait | to make it more complicated we might want to fall back from one to the other |
| 18:36 | Brooke | cait++ |
| 18:36 | sekjal | the formats so far are HTML, plaintext, RSS/XML, and short-message |
| 18:36 | cait | no mobile numbe > send email > no email > create print |
| 18:36 | Brooke | rank by patron preference, perhaps? |
| 18:37 | sekjal | we could save ourselves some complexity, and fuse message format with delivery method |
| 18:37 | cait | hm |
| 18:37 | sekjal | since RSS is always RSS/XML |
| 18:37 | SMS is always shortmessage | |
| 18:37 | cait | what about email? should be plan or html |
| 18:38 | sekjal | ^^ |
| 18:38 | same with print | |
| 18:38 | though I'd lean more on HTML for print | |
| 18:38 | cait | def |
| 18:38 | Brooke | hmmm |
| 18:38 | it'd have to print nicely | |
| 18:38 | cait | but email makes sense in plain and html (although I always prefere plain) |
| 18:39 | print should have options to add corporate design | |
| 18:39 | logos, footer, header | |
| 18:39 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 18:39 | cait | so html is a good way to go for that |
| 18:39 | sekjal | do we think this is something people would want to decide on globally? |
| 18:39 | Brooke | no |
| 18:39 | sekjal | like, system preference level? |
| 18:39 | Brooke | I think this is a pizza topping |
| 18:39 | cait | decide about? |
| 18:39 | sekjal | all emails are plain, or all emails are HTML, per install? |
| 18:39 | cait | hm |
| 18:39 | Brooke | no |
| 18:39 | not even that | |
| 18:39 | for my overdue notices | |
| 18:39 | I'd want plain | |
| 18:39 | for my flash fundraising stuff, might want html. | |
| 18:40 | cait | Brooke: really not so sure about that |
| 18:40 | Brooke | although |
| 18:40 | cait | couldn't we make it an option in the notice templates? |
| 18:40 | Brooke | if we default to plain |
| 18:40 | I can always be sneaky | |
| 18:40 | and just link stuff. | |
| 18:40 | slef | I think that's fine for an option, but it's plain at the mo, isn't it? |
| 18:40 | cait | like give it a subject, give it an email address to be sent from and check html or not? |
| 18:40 | libsysguy | from a design perspective whats the difference between html and plain |
| 18:41 | Brooke | for a test, we've to ensure that the email address in reply to is the right one in parameters. |
| 18:41 | danmc joined #koha | |
| 18:41 | sekjal | libsysguy: WYSIWYG editor |
| 18:41 | slef | Would someone go through http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]aging_rewrite_RFC and bold which ones already exist? I'm happy to take a first crack, but I'll probably miss some. |
| 18:42 | cait | slef: I had marked soem of them with a * |
| 18:42 | libsysguy | why not enable the wysiwyg editor by default...if its plain text just render it as such? |
| 18:42 | maybe im just being naive about it | |
| 18:42 | Brooke | the new ones are * on the initial document |
| 18:42 | cait | libsysguy: you can't do bold and such tihngs in plain, might get confusing |
| 18:42 | slef | libsysguy: people screw up and use only colour or styling to indicate things. |
| 18:42 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 18:42 | cait | yep |
| 18:42 | hi Oak | |
| 18:42 | but why not have a flag on the notice to indicate? | |
| 18:42 | the format? | |
| 18:43 | slef | libsysguy: which they shouldn't, because that's bad for accessibility too (red-green colour-blind for example) |
| 18:43 | Oak | hello cait |
| 18:43 | hello #koha | |
| 18:43 | libsysguy | gotcha |
| 18:43 | slef | cait / Brooke: so are * the new ones or the current ones? |
| 18:43 | cait | see my note below ;) |
| 18:43 | Brooke | line 50 says new |
| 18:43 | sekjal | if we're including a flag or an option, we're losing any benefits of merging format and delivery method |
| 18:43 | unless | |
| 18:43 | cait | new |
| 18:43 | sekjal | we have two email delivery methods: plain, and HTML |
| 18:43 | Oak | loud hello to Brooke |
| 18:43 | slef | hi Oak. Welcome to the meeting. #info if you want to be noted in the minutes. |
| 18:43 | * Brooke | hugs Oak. |
| 18:43 | Oak | oops |
| 18:44 | it's a meeting. will shut up now | |
| 18:44 | cait | sekjal: hm, is this so bad? |
| 18:44 | slef | it's a chaos |
| 18:44 | cait | having html and plain mail? |
| 18:44 | slef | Brooke: ok, I see that line now. That wasn't clear to me on first reading. |
| 18:45 | sekjal | so, when in the notices editor creating a new notice: |
| 18:45 | you'd have the options for format: "email-plain, email-HTML, print (HTML), SMS, RSS" | |
| 18:45 | choice of format would inform the editor on any restrictions/tools to include | |
| 18:46 | Brooke | *nod* and theoretically call the printer on the carpet. |
| 18:47 | slef | So am I right in thinking the later sections don't have *s? |
| 18:47 | OK with everyone if I take a run through those? | |
| 18:47 | cait | slef: correct |
| 18:48 | Brooke | please do, and double check the wiki I know I edited some out accidentally. |
| 18:48 | cait | we didn't get far tidying it up |
| 18:48 | I will mark them now for oyu | |
| 18:48 | sekjal | okay: so message templates would have major characteristics: itemtype, branchcode, patron category, format |
| 18:49 | oh, and type | |
| 18:49 | libsysguy | yes ^^ |
| 18:49 | cait | hm |
| 18:49 | i was thinking | |
| 18:49 | have the rules apart | |
| 18:50 | from the templates | |
| 18:50 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 18:50 | cait | so you can reuse a template |
| 18:50 | for different combinatons | |
| 18:50 | sekjal | good point |
| 18:50 | cait | like have one overdue to sent to all borrowers, but different overdues for professors and students |
| 18:51 | libsysguy | so like the circ rules |
| 18:51 | cait | keep template characteristics specific to the text |
| 18:51 | libsysguy: similar, yes, but perhaps with a nicer gui :) | |
| 18:51 | sekjal | so just format and type |
| 18:51 | makes sense | |
| 18:51 | Brooke | nicer guis++ |
| 18:51 | sekjal | use rules elsewhere |
| 18:51 | libsysguy | aww I wanted all text everyhing :'( |
| 18:52 | cait | sekjal: perhaps even a code for the hardcoded things? like module now |
| 18:52 | oh | |
| 18:52 | libsysguy | jk |
| 18:52 | cait | if we put how something is triggered into the rules |
| 18:52 | how do we indicate which placeholders can be used in a template? | |
| 18:52 | sekjal | that would be a function of "type" |
| 18:53 | slef | OK, I've tried to update http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_8_September_2011 and put *s on new types and formats. Did I get it right? |
| 18:53 | sekjal | all Overdues would have access to the same variables |
| 18:53 | cait | slef: we could use the typewithme and put that on the wiki later? |
| 18:54 | Brooke | it's on the thinger |
| 18:54 | cait | slef: sms is possible already |
| 18:54 | slef | cait: oh yeah. I thought I deleted that |
| 18:54 | cait: :( typewithme eats my battery. | |
| 18:54 | cait | ok |
| 18:54 | slef | cait: you remove or shall I? |
| 18:54 | cait | can you? |
| 18:54 | slef | removing |
| 18:55 | cait | thx |
| 18:55 | slef | done |
| 18:55 | cait | ok |
| 18:55 | so type format | |
| 18:55 | sekjal | so, right now, when creating a new message, you specific what Module it's in |
| 18:55 | cait | where format also indicates the delivery type |
| 18:55 | hm | |
| 18:55 | sekjal | and that gives you access to various tables |
| 18:55 | what about | |
| 18:56 | instead | |
| 18:56 | you specify an SQL query to per message type to get you the variables you want? | |
| 18:57 | and that SQL lived in a Report | |
| 18:57 | * Brooke | pukes. |
| 18:57 | Brooke | that's okay for advanced users |
| 18:57 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 18:57 | Brooke | but is incredibly hostile for other types, if I'm grokin' ye |
| 18:57 | slef | sekjal: how would the SQL query work? Wouldn't that need its own placeholders, which would vary by which module it's in, or at least which type of object it's working on? |
| 18:58 | sekjal | Brooke: we'd include default reports that include all the tokens we include now |
| 18:58 | cait | some kind of primary key , yes |
| 18:58 | Brooke | default features++ |
| 18:58 | cait | sekjal: I kind of like the idea to make it more flexible |
| 18:59 | for example fines | |
| 18:59 | i could make it sum things | |
| 18:59 | sekjal | slef: the template would be called with whatever key parameters make sense in it's context |
| 18:59 | cait | using sql functions,not dpeenidng on the system to do it the way I want it too |
| 18:59 | to | |
| 18:59 | but it would need a way to make clear which pk is to be used... | |
| 18:59 | slef | I think this is another enhancement for later? |
| 19:00 | cait | pehaps a phase 2 thing yes... |
| 19:00 | but still something I would really love to see | |
| 19:00 | Brooke | a lot of this is enhancement and phased |
| 19:00 | I think it's important to honour what we want while we move on the stuff y'all need NAO | |
| 19:00 | slef | sekjal: do you think this would still work if we move to DBIx or whatever it's called? |
| 19:00 | cait | ok |
| 19:00 | so we have a desired structure for templates now | |
| 19:00 | sekjal | slef: I don't know |
| 19:00 | cait | that will kill a lot of the tables in there right now |
| 19:01 | because koha has already very complicated structures in place for delivery types and messaging | |
| 19:01 | slef | oh yeah, it's worth mentioning... just I've 1001 questions on it which probably don't need asking just now |
| 19:01 | So what are the phases? Is that written anywhere yet? | |
| 19:01 | cait | no |
| 19:01 | not yet | |
| 19:01 | I think talking about structures is first | |
| 19:02 | and then making small sets to be developed as patches? | |
| 19:02 | and be aware of what we want it to do late to not make it hard to enhance | |
| 19:02 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 19:03 | slef | sure |
| 19:03 | sekjal | I doubt we'll come out of this meeting with a complete roadmap, but a few steps closer is acceptable to me |
| 19:03 | is it acceptable to say | |
| 19:03 | that | |
| 19:03 | * cait | nods |
| 19:03 | slef | We've also a structure for how we get what to put into the templates. So any other structures we need? |
| 19:03 | sekjal | each message type should pull in a specific set of usable variables? |
| 19:05 | cait | yes |
| 19:05 | and consistent this time plz | |
| 19:05 | from the beginning | |
| 19:05 | sekjal | phrase another way: does it make sense to have message type and 'module' as separate things? |
| 19:05 | cait | hm |
| 19:05 | perhaps not | |
| 19:05 | as long as message type is not unique | |
| 19:05 | slef | Why not? |
| 19:05 | cait | why not unique? |
| 19:06 | slef | why no sense? |
| 19:06 | cait | oh |
| 19:06 | perhaps not necessary | |
| 19:06 | sekjal | can an overdue notice be anything but a Circulation module notice? |
| 19:06 | cait | but might make it easier to organize |
| 19:06 | or prone to false inputs | |
| 19:06 | slef | sekjal: it could be an email scheduled, or a screen notice triggered on checkout and checkin, couldn't it? |
| 19:07 | sekjal | slef: I mean, in the Notices editor, there is a dropdown to select Module |
| 19:07 | and that's what determines what tokens/variables/database fields you can put into the template | |
| 19:07 | cait | but type would already indicate the module |
| 19:07 | and choose the fields | |
| 19:08 | slef | I thought type was delivery type? |
| 19:08 | Brooke | do we want a preview box someplace so we can see what all will be pulled? |
| 19:08 | slef | let's keep the jargon straight please people! ;-) |
| 19:08 | sekjal | sorry, slef |
| 19:08 | message templates | |
| 19:09 | have message types (overdue, checkin, predue, holds place, etc) | |
| 19:09 | * slef | has gin now (it's 8pm here), so may be more easily confused than usual. |
| 19:09 | cait | Brooke: you can't preview without giving it a borrower or something - I think it's not really necessary |
| 19:09 | sekjal | and formats (email-plain, email-HTML, print, SMS, etc) |
| 19:10 | slef | sekjal: those seem to be called messages in the new RFC. |
| 19:10 | sekjal | yeah, that's how we originally labeled them last meeting |
| 19:11 | message type informs the available database fields for the message template | |
| 19:11 | every overdue notice will have access to the same fields | |
| 19:11 | slef | please stop using type or I'll get confused again... so the question is: can the same message appear in multiple modules? |
| 19:11 | sekjal | I'm proposing getting rid of modules |
| 19:12 | cait | slef: for the messages we have spoken about - I think no |
| 19:12 | slef | By the looks of the design, I think it makes sense to relegate them to headings in the messages list. |
| 19:12 | cait | so voting to go for the simpler version now |
| 19:12 | no modules | |
| 19:12 | * slef | just checks the current source |
| 19:13 | cait | sekjal: the table will also need subject and perhaps description |
| 19:13 | sekjal | cait: yes |
| 19:13 | cait | and a pk |
| 19:13 | of course | |
| 19:13 | or? | |
| 19:13 | sekjal | those are free text and 3NF design bits, respectively |
| 19:13 | very necessary | |
| 19:13 | cait | ok |
| 19:13 | so we have that mapped out now | |
| 19:14 | now, we will have things where triggers are hardcoded | |
| 19:14 | like for holds | |
| 19:14 | but we need other things with more options | |
| 19:14 | like overdues | |
| 19:14 | or predues | |
| 19:14 | sekjal | right, we've got two kinds of message triggers |
| 19:14 | cait | can we get that into 1 additional table? or do we need another structure? |
| 19:14 | sekjal | event-based (checkin, checkout, hold placed, hold confirmed, etc) |
| 19:14 | and scheduled | |
| 19:15 | cait | overdues - event or scheduled? |
| 19:15 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 19:15 | cait | the event is book gets overdue - but it's more a time based thing probably |
| 19:15 | Brooke | both |
| 19:15 | which is tricky | |
| 19:15 | sekjal | scheduled at this point |
| 19:15 | cait | ok |
| 19:15 | Brooke | should be pre overdue triggers notice |
| 19:15 | actual overdue triggers a notice | |
| 19:15 | end of month accounting might nag yet again. | |
| 19:16 | sekjal | the trigger is "our cronjob ran to see what's overdue, and here're the messages" |
| 19:16 | Brooke | then > collection over X $ |
| 19:16 | slef | could scheduled be just events (queuerun,hourly,dayhour,nighthour,...)? |
| 19:16 | sekjal | slef: yes |
| 19:17 | we'd just need some thing to cause those events (cron, daemon, etc) | |
| 19:17 | libsysguy | sorry guys for going silent |
| 19:17 | i had to take care of something | |
| 19:17 | sekjal | this is much like the fines discussion earlier today, actually |
| 19:17 | much like it | |
| 19:18 | libsysguy | uh oh |
| 19:18 | slef | I think book dueness events are just strange events, triggered by another event (a search triggered by the queuerun or daily event which looks for books going that much due) |
| 19:18 | libsysguy | looks like i came back just in time |
| 19:18 | slef | sekjal: heh. A fine is a type of message. |
| 19:18 | * slef | runs |
| 19:18 | sekjal | slef: well.... yeah |
| 19:18 | in a way | |
| 19:19 | cait | ok |
| 19:19 | only wanted to get that sorted in :) | |
| 19:19 | I think this is good so far | |
| 19:19 | sekjal: do you have a structure in mind for the triggers? | |
| 19:19 | the scheduled triggers (I should clarify this) | |
| 19:20 | sekjal | well, scheduled or event based should probably both call the same subroutine to populate the message template with real data |
| 19:20 | that means a) choosing the right template, based on our rules | |
| 19:20 | b) passing the appropriate primary keys for the contextually-correct objects | |
| 19:21 | Brooke | is there summat clever y'all can do to prevent someone from being sent a message too often within a certain timeframe? Like an array that checks v chron or summat? |
| 19:21 | sekjal | c) adding the completed notice to the message_queue |
| 19:21 | slef | event_id int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.template_id |
| 19:21 | I'm sure that's a security disaster waiting to happen. | |
| 19:23 | at very least, function would need whitelisting | |
| 19:23 | sekjal | right now, steps a), b) and possibly c) are done each time a message event happens |
| 19:23 | rangi | morning |
| 19:23 | Brooke | morena |
| 19:23 | cait | morning rangi |
| 19:23 | Brooke | Kei te pehea koe? |
| 19:24 | sekjal | how could we pass the right keys to an arbitrary notice.... hmmmm...... |
| 19:24 | slef | rangi: where's my microUSB cable hiding? |
| 19:24 | rangi | in the couch? |
| 19:24 | cait | check under the bad? |
| 19:24 | bed | |
| 19:24 | ... sorry | |
| 19:25 | sekjal: I am not sure I can follow all that | |
| 19:25 | libsysguy | slef refridgerator |
| 19:25 | cait | let me reread |
| 19:25 | hm | |
| 19:25 | sounds ok to me so far | |
| 19:25 | not sure about slefs security concerns though | |
| 19:26 | slef | I found a different one in the cupboard. All is well |
| 19:26 | sekjal: by having the event say what function fuels it. See above. Maybe add a column for report_id if you want to use the reports table? | |
| 19:27 | sekjal | slef: ah, I'm seeing it, now |
| 19:27 | took a second | |
| 19:28 | slef | sekjal: yeah, clarity is not my strong point right now. |
| 19:28 | cait | ah |
| 19:29 | slef | Brooke: if the outgoing messages are being logged in koha, a sending action could check the log to make sure it isn't sending too often. |
| 19:29 | Brooke | excellent :) |
| 19:29 | * Brooke | can't help but picture teh angry Patrons. |
| 19:29 | * slef | can and is laughing. Is that wrong? |
| 19:29 | sekjal | well, choosing which message template to retrieve doesn't involve passing keys |
| 19:30 | need itemtype/patroncategory/branchcode (maybe) | |
| 19:30 | cait | hmm |
| 19:30 | sekjal | and message type, of course |
| 19:30 | and message format, taken from patron preferences | |
| 19:30 | cait | but that also would make a lot of repeated entries |
| 19:30 | when setting up things i mean | |
| 19:30 | slef | sekjal: I'm seeing function as an arbitrary something like C4::Notification::SendOverdueToPatron |
| 19:31 | rangi: c'mon, are you horrified yet? | |
| 19:31 | cait | he is hiding |
| 19:31 | but perhaps that's ok | |
| 19:32 | I think we have to rethink the way message preferences work | |
| 19:32 | for patrons | |
| 19:32 | * rangi | is happy this is SEP |
| 19:32 | cait | SEP? |
| 19:32 | wahanui | SEP is probably similar daylight to March. |
| 19:32 | rangi | someone elses problem |
| 19:32 | Brooke | wahanui forget SEP |
| 19:32 | wahanui | Brooke: I forgot sep |
| 19:32 | cait | are we that bad? |
| 19:33 | rangi | Hehe nope but its not 3.6 so im low on caring :) |
| 19:33 | slef | rangi: what's the right way to extend core actions? My brian isn't working just now. |
| 19:33 | Or brain even. | |
| 19:34 | cait | what we are talking abou tnow will kill existing structures |
| 19:34 | * sekjal | just needs to be exorbitantly wealthy, so he can fly everyone interested in working on this to the same location, and provide whiteboards, snacks/beer and comfy sofas |
| 19:34 | libsysguy | ^^ |
| 19:34 | cait | the messaging tables are quite a bit complicated, but could be extended I guess |
| 19:34 | rangi | id start again |
| 19:34 | Brooke | sekjal++ |
| 19:34 | rangi | in the Koha:: namespace |
| 19:35 | sekjal | oh, and remember: |
| 19:35 | rangi | then cutover when done |
| 19:35 | sekjal | whatever database structure changes we wind up making, we have to be able to port over everyone's existing notices into the new structures |
| 19:35 | seamlessly | |
| 19:35 | libsysguy | oh yes...i keep forgetting that |
| 19:36 | sekjal | no regressions allowed |
| 19:36 | libsysguy | and there frequency structure |
| 19:36 | rangi | yep port and equally important clean up what is now deprecated |
| 19:37 | slef | sekjal: can you fix my health too please? |
| 19:37 | ok, sorry folks, I resign the chair | |
| 19:37 | not that I've been doing much for the last few minutes ;) | |
| 19:38 | cait | bye slef |
| 19:38 | perhaps we need to close the meeting soon | |
| 19:38 | libsysguy | bye slef...thanks |
| 19:38 | cait | can someone put down our structures? |
| 19:38 | Brooke | he's not leaving, he's passing the gavel, yes? |
| 19:38 | cait | to have something to start with next time? |
| 19:38 | and perhaps meet again in one week or 2? | |
| 19:38 | slef | I'm not sure when I'm leaving but it will be soon and sudden |
| 19:38 | cait | I am not feeling too well myself tonight - might be getting a cold |
| 19:39 | libsysguy | Well i basically missed the meeting so I have no objections to whatever |
| 19:40 | sekjal | #idea instead of functions in the database table, why not functions directly in the event itself? |
| 19:40 | slef | because then how do you replace events? |
| 19:40 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 19:41 | sekjal | when an item is checked in, the CHECKIN event occurs, and SendCheckinNotice($itemnumber) is called |
| 19:41 | slef | #idea something like eventid int, event varchar(16), function text, template_id int references templates.templateid, report_id references reports.reportid |
| 19:42 | yeah but what SendCheckinNotice? C4::SendCheckinNotice or LocalLibrary::SendCheckinNotice? | |
| 19:42 | sorry, C4::Circulation::SendCheckinNotice | |
| 19:42 | sekjal | slef: right, sorry, Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice |
| 19:42 | cait | the one defined in our table weith borrowercategory library and itemtype? |
| 19:43 | slef | sekjal: so what would I do to get LocalLibrary::Notices::SendCheckinNotice run instead? |
| 19:43 | sekjal | slef: why would you want to? |
| 19:44 | slef | sekjal: because Koha::Notices::SendCheckinNotice doesn't check the message log before deciding whether to send a notice. |
| 19:44 | (for example) | |
| 19:45 | sekjal | then write a patch to fix it so it does... (optionally controlled by a syspref) |
| 19:45 | sorry, I think my head is getting all fuzzy | |
| 19:45 | having a hard time grasping ideas | |
| 19:45 | slef | patching core is no fun... we have a chance to avoid it here :) |
| 19:46 | rangi | oh noes |
| 19:46 | sekjal | I think I see |
| 19:46 | plugin support | |
| 19:46 | rangi | slef is pitching drupal |
| 19:46 | * rangi | runs screaming |
| 19:46 | slef | rangi: I'm hoping to do better. |
| 19:46 | oleonard | slef would never pitch something written in PHP |
| 19:46 | slef | rangi: replace function calls, not just have function calls that defer to other function calls |
| 19:46 | rangi | couldn't do worse :) |
| 19:46 | slef | oh I could |
| 19:47 | and probably have | |
| 19:47 | father forgive me | |
| 19:47 | Brooke | you are forgiven, my son. |
| 19:47 | slef | oleonard: danger money, yeah! |
| 19:47 | * cait | can't follow |
| 19:48 | sekjal | I'm all for making Koha pluggable, but I think that's outside the scope of this particular project |
| 19:48 | rangi | im pretty sure the catalyst drupal team (all 10 of them) just sit around swearing about plugins |
| 19:48 | slef | the co-op does too. We almost have no drupal sites left now. |
| 19:48 | ttyl - remember to endmeeting, someone | |
| 19:49 | sekjal | bye, slef |
| 19:49 | * libsysguy | libsysguys site is based on drupal :'( |
| 19:49 | cait | oh |
| 19:49 | he is using that smiley again | |
| 19:49 | * cait | glares |
| 19:49 | libsysguy | i mean :-D |
| 19:49 | cait | ok |
| 19:50 | so perhaps we should end meeting and start with trigger talk/modules next time? | |
| 19:50 | sekjal | cait: agreed |
| 19:50 | I'm fried | |
| 19:50 | rangi | catalyst has a lot, im just glad I dont have to maintain them |
| 19:50 | Brooke | #endmeeting |
| 19:50 | Topic for #koha is now 3.4.4 is now available; Next General IRC Meeting 5 October 2011 at 10:00 UTC | |
| 19:50 | huginn | Meeting ended Thu Sep 15 19:50:35 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 19:50 | Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]-09-15-18.22.html | |
| 19:50 | Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]1-09-15-18.22.txt | |
| 19:50 | Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-[…]15-18.22.log.html | |
| 19:50 | rangi | and next time I wont derail the discussion Hehe |
| 19:51 | sekjal | and I've still have some fun intellectual problems to solve involving undoing patron imports |
| 19:51 | Brooke | it is unpossible to derail an open source conversation. They are not on track by default. ;) |
| 19:51 | oleonard | rangi: Does Catalyst still start new sites on Drupal or do they have a new preferred system? |
| 19:51 | cait | we forgot time of nextmeeting |
| 19:51 | rangi | still start new sites on drupal, for certain types of sites anyway |
| 19:51 | miguel joined #koha | |
| 19:51 | cait | next week might not be good |
| 19:51 | with feature freeze pending | |
| 19:52 | perhaps in 2 weeks? | |
| 19:52 | rangi | at least its not plone, is the consensus :) |
| 19:52 | libsysguy | im ok with that |
| 19:52 | oleonard | Amen to that rangi |
| 19:52 | * oleonard | is glad he didn't take Josh's advice on that one |
| 19:53 | rangi | heh |
| 19:59 | * oleonard | splits |
| 20:00 | cait left #koha | |
| 20:00 | cait joined #koha | |
| 20:27 | rangi | http://drupal.biblibre.com/en/[…]nsible-enterprise |
| 20:27 | biblibre++ | |
| 20:40 | Brooke | mmm good on them. biblibre++ |
| 20:44 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 20:45 | rangi | hdl++ |
| 20:45 | Brooke | hdl++ |
| 20:46 | hdl | rangi: why ? |
| 20:46 | hi | |
| 20:46 | wahanui | bonjour, hdl |
| 20:46 | rangi | http://t.co/PjaknIRB |
| 20:50 | hdl | oh... thanks. |
| 20:50 | biblibre++ then | |
| 20:50 | rangi | yep did that already ;) |
| 20:54 | Brooke | hardball! |
| 20:55 | hdl | thanks anyway |
| 21:04 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 21:31 | juan_sieira_ joined #koha | |
| 21:43 | miguel joined #koha | |
| 21:45 | miguelxercode joined #koha | |
| 21:57 | maximep left #koha | |
| 22:40 | libsysguy left #koha | |
| 22:48 | cait | biblibre++ |
| 22:48 | wizzyrea | cait! |
| 22:48 | it's so late for you! | |
| 22:48 | rangi | i thought u was travelling wizzyrea ? |
| 22:48 | wizzyrea | i am at my destination |
| 22:48 | :) | |
| 22:48 | cait | book |
| 22:48 | wizzyrea | arrived about an hour ago |
| 22:48 | rangi | ahh |
| 22:48 | is it all secure? | |
| 22:48 | cait | one word, explains everything |
| 22:48 | rangi | :) |
| 22:49 | wizzyrea | afaict |
| 22:49 | rangi | :) |
| 22:50 | cait | wizzyrea: where are you that rangi asks if it's secure? |
| 22:51 | wizzyrea | that's classified maam. |
| 22:51 | teasing, it's southwest kansas library system tech day | |
| 22:51 | well the day before swkls tech day | |
| 22:51 | 5.5 hour drive from lawrence | |
| 22:52 | rangi | shes talking about security |
| 22:52 | wizzyrea | and that |
| 22:54 | cait | oh |
| 22:54 | :) | |
| 22:54 | you will do great | |
| 22:55 | wizzyrea | i've give this one several times before |
| 23:08 | cait | so it will be morethan great :) |
| 23:08 | rangi | that was fast |
| 23:08 | wizzyrea | i'll do my best to make you all proud ;) |
| 23:10 | cait | aw :) |
| 23:16 | cait left #koha | |
| 23:16 | wizzyrea | bbl |
| 23:16 | rangi | cya |
| 23:31 | huginn | New commit(s) kohagit: bug_6318: Always give predefined fields drop downs on label layout edit <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]fe890009d8a231772> |
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