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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:11 | dafydd left #koha | |
| 00:22 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 00:24 | sekjal left #koha | |
| 01:03 | eternalsw left #koha | |
| 01:28 | brendan_l joined #koha | |
| 01:28 | Brooke | howdy |
| 01:29 | chris | wb Brooke |
| 01:29 | Brooke | where's the move/rename tab on the wiki? |
| 01:30 | chris | along the top |
| 01:30 | next to history | |
| 01:30 | Brooke | :/ |
| 01:31 | chris | goes page discussion edit history move watch |
| 01:31 | Brooke | no tab for me! |
| 01:31 | chris | what page you looking at |
| 01:31 | and are you logged in? | |
| 01:31 | Brooke | hmm |
| 01:31 | apparently it depends on what I view | |
| 01:32 | chris | you cant move special pages |
| 01:32 | like categories etc | |
| 01:32 | Brooke | pffft |
| 01:32 | now I have to be careful | |
| 01:33 | chris | heh |
| 01:33 | Brooke | I'm used to cryptic, yet strangely forgiving drupal |
| 01:49 | chris | you gonna make a wiki page with what lori took the time to write an email about, instead of taking the time to make the page ? :-) |
| 01:50 | * chris | is snarky today |
| 01:50 | Brooke | don't make me tell you to get back in your cube and develop! *duck* |
| 01:51 | chris | im not allowed to |
| 01:51 | apparently i have to talk about talking about talking about rfc | |
| 01:51 | wizzyrea_ joined #koha | |
| 01:51 | chris | :) |
| 01:52 | Brooke | not sure it requires another page. I'll have to reread it when I'm more alert |
| 01:52 | I just think it requires better linking | |
| 01:52 | and some of it is on the site | |
| 01:52 | chris | yup |
| 01:52 | * Brooke | is concentrating on messing up the wiki THEN blowing up the site |
| 01:53 | chris | heh |
| 01:53 | wizzyrea_ | what are we blowing up? |
| 01:53 | Brooke | shhhhh |
| 01:53 | I are meeting in sekrut | |
| 01:53 | chris | im documenting how to document documenting documents about documenting |
| 01:53 | * wizzyrea_ | likes blowing things up |
| 01:53 | chris | because thats far more productive than just doing shit |
| 01:53 | Brooke | damn it |
| 01:54 | I think I caught a bad case of snark from Chris | |
| 01:54 | chris | whoops did i say that out loud |
| 01:54 | wizzyrea_ | lol |
| 01:54 | well if there is something you would like to do to the site, i'm happy to help >.> | |
| 01:54 | Brooke | division of labour means I can document about documenting documentation while you work on shtuff |
| 01:55 | there's no OR operator in there | |
| 01:55 | chris | heh |
| 01:55 | wizzyrea_ | oh... i see |
| 01:56 | * wizzyrea_ | catches up on the list |
| 01:56 | wizzyrea_ | that's good feedback actually, there should be a spot for RFC's on there, and I'll add a link. |
| 01:56 | even if only to the RFC category >.> | |
| 01:57 | Brooke | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4 |
| 01:58 | rach left #koha | |
| 01:59 | Brooke | on the sunny side, I compiled the word data into a preliminary tag cloud |
| 01:59 | so unless 80 bajillion people get back to me on thursday night | |
| 01:59 | it'll be done by Friday | |
| 02:00 | * Brooke | can feel a long range plan a comin' |
| 02:00 | chris | :-) |
| 02:02 | wizzyrea_ | http://koha-community.org/about/enhancing-koha/ |
| 02:02 | though it doesn't say why | |
| 02:07 | Brooke | 5 years seem like a logical time frame for planning? Or should I tighten that up given our breakneck release pace? (Though that would increase the number of chairs tossed my way at the suggestion of planning.) |
| 02:08 | wizzyrea_ | 5 years for the duration of the plan? |
| 02:08 | Brooke | hai |
| 02:08 | wizzyrea_ | english...failing... there's a word that i'm thinking of that isn't coming out of my brain |
| 02:08 | Brooke | (though I could have said 5 years to construct the plan, but that would be mean.) |
| 02:08 | chris | planning is fine, talking about planning im bored of |
| 02:08 | ie, just do it | |
| 02:09 | if ppl think its a good idea, they'll follow it, if not ... ah well, you tried :) | |
| 02:09 | wizzyrea_ | that depends on what the lofty goal is you're trying to achieve I think |
| 02:09 | * chris_n | thinks his 3 point RFC workflow outline sums it up |
| 02:09 | chris | yes |
| 02:09 | and add | |
| 02:09 | send patches early and often | |
| 02:09 | * jcamins_a | considers trying to comprehend the scrollback, then concludes it's hopeless. |
| 02:09 | jcamins_a is now known as jcamins | |
| 02:09 | Brooke | trying to comprehend me is hopeless |
| 02:10 | wizzyrea_ | relax, we understand joo |
| 02:10 | Brooke | however, like a well trained monkey with a typewriter, I can be lucid in certain formats. |
| 02:10 | wizzyrea_ | lol |
| 02:10 | chris | gmcharlt++ |
| 02:11 | Brooke | yeah he needs chocolate |
| 02:11 | wizzyrea_ | what is the lofty goal? |
| 02:11 | chris | http://galencharlton.com/blog/?p=69 |
| 02:11 | Brooke | but I've to find a chocolatier |
| 02:11 | reva joined #koha | |
| 02:11 | Brooke | hi reva |
| 02:14 | reva | hi good evening anyone awake. I have installed Koha 3.2 Live CD.It is running on Ubuntu 10.10; I am not able to connect to the internet. Localhost is fine. Any networking experts have solutions? Had similar issues running 3.0.6 through Live CD on Ubuntu10.04. Solved using static address in network configuration. |
| 02:14 | Hi Brook. Are you new here in Koha-community chat? | |
| 02:15 | jcamins | reva: this is not a Koha issue. |
| 02:15 | reva | Sorry, that was supposed to be Brooke. |
| 02:15 | jcamins | I would encourage you to try troubleshooting this on Ubuntu fora. |
| 02:15 | wizzyrea_ | i'm guessing you have the same problem that you had before |
| 02:15 | reva | Is there a chat channel for them you recommend, jcamins? |
| 02:15 | wizzyrea_ | and you need to assign a static |
| 02:16 | http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat | |
| 02:16 | their channels are all on freenode | |
| 02:16 | reva | The 3.2 Live CD had no problem when I tested it on VirtualBox; only when I installed it in the hard disk partition. wizzyrea. |
| 02:17 | Ok, I followed the solution I found and shared it with the Live CD developer for 3.0.6 running on Ubuntu 10.04. But that is not solving the issue with 10.10. | |
| 02:18 | wizzyrea_ | i'd take it up with the ubuntu folks |
| 02:18 | reva | ok, I will try the link wizzyrea. Thanks. |
| 02:21 | jcamins | reva: I just Googled "network troubleshooting ubuntu," and it brought up some results. |
| 02:21 | reva | The solution I followed before and did not succeed this time is the October 16 entry on this page: http://mizstik.com/projects/ko[…]-page-3/#comments. Was hoping may be there may be an Ubuntu expert here. Thanks for all the help. |
| 02:21 | Ok jcamins, I am all ears.:) | |
| 02:22 | jcamins | reva: I meant, you can try that search, and see if someo of the suggestions help. |
| 02:22 | chris | http://tinyurl.com/2bbo6qt |
| 02:22 | jcamins | chris++ |
| 02:24 | reva | oops lost you for a sec there. That was a cool link, it types in the searches by itself, what is that, chris? |
| 02:25 | chris | http://lmgtfy.com/ |
| 02:26 | reva | ok, thanks. I love it. I can send it to my counterpart when I have returned to the US. |
| 02:26 | The things they think of. | |
| 02:27 | chris | :) |
| 02:28 | reva | I am reading the results.Will be back tomorrow morning after trying. Thanks all for the helpful hints. |
| 02:30 | wizzyrea, I lost the link you gave for the chat channel when I went off chat for a bit there; could you give me the link again? Thanks in advance. | |
| 02:31 | Brooke | http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/chat |
| 02:31 | jcamins | If you Google "Ubuntu support," that'll get you to it also. |
| 02:37 | reva | ok jcamins.I am at home, and have limited bandwidth. So wanted to capitalize on the mibbit chat here to bookmark. |
| 02:40 | Topic for #koha is now Koha - www.koha-community.org. Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0. This channel is logged. Pastes at paste.koha-community.org RFC How-To he | |
| 02:40 | Topic for #koha is now Koha - www.koha-community.org. Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0. This channel is logged. RFC How-To here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/w | |
| 02:41 | Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0. This channel is logged. RFC How-To here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/w | |
| 02:41 | Brooke | ah spam! Baninate! ;) |
| 02:41 | Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting 10 November 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0. This channel is logged. RFC How-To here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:RFCs | |
| 02:41 | chris_n | and once more for good measure |
| 02:41 | :-) | |
| 02:41 | chris | heh |
| 02:41 | Brooke | k |
| 02:42 | * chris_n | is learning about char limits on irc topic lines |
| 02:42 | Brooke | I'm officially punchy |
| 02:42 | Brooke left #koha | |
| 02:43 | * chris_n | heads off to sleep too |
| 02:43 | chris_n | g'night |
| 02:44 | wizzyrea_ | later chris_n |
| 02:44 | chris | night |
| 02:50 | jcamins | Cool, I didn't know we had RFC documentation. |
| 03:00 | * jcamins | is going to get some sleep too |
| 03:00 | jcamins | Good night, #koha |
| 03:00 | jcamins is now known as jcamins_a | |
| 03:01 | brendan_l | night jcamins_a |
| 03:04 | reva left #koha | |
| 03:45 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 03:46 | Brooke left #koha | |
| 03:46 | richard left #koha | |
| 04:00 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 04:07 | hdl | hi |
| 04:07 | anyone there ? | |
| 04:17 | wasabi | heya hdl |
| 04:17 | whatsup? | |
| 04:40 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 04:41 | kmkale | HI ALL |
| 04:45 | hdl | hi wasabi nothing special. |
| 04:45 | wasabi: just good whatever. night evening, morning. | |
| 04:46 | hi kmkale | |
| 04:46 | kmkale | hi hdl |
| 04:47 | hdl | I am quite tired by jet lag... |
| 04:54 | will try to sleep a little more | |
| 04:59 | hdl left #koha | |
| 05:01 | ronald joined #koha | |
| 05:15 | wizzyrea_ left #koha | |
| 05:26 | ronald | can anyone point me to some tips on how i can move my koha 2.29 database from open suse to my new ubuntu server? |
| 05:30 | kmkale | ronald: standar mysql dump on suse and restore on ubuntu? |
| 05:40 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:41 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 05:41 | good morning #koha | |
| 05:41 | kmkale | morning cait |
| 05:41 | cait | hi kmkale |
| 05:41 | ronald left #koha | |
| 06:12 | chris | evening |
| 06:13 | cait | hi chris |
| 06:16 | kmkale | hi chris |
| 06:24 | cait | hm stupid me.. testing my patch with German templates... |
| 06:24 | can't work | |
| 06:24 | chris | heh |
| 06:25 | cait | rebasing my patch for bug 5003 :) |
| 06:25 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5003 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Can not search for organisation by name |
| 06:26 | cait | and now it works :) yay! |
| 06:36 | chris | yay! |
| 06:38 | cait | :) |
| 06:40 | chris | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]/biblibre_reports |
| 06:40 | is ready for some secondary testing if you get bored :) | |
| 06:40 | im doing some testing now | |
| 06:40 | cait | still have the notices thigns to test |
| 06:43 | munin | New commit(s) kohagit: bug 5372: identify empty field in authority record correctly <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]a5a32fd1ce354684a> |
| 06:59 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 07:17 | cait | bye #koha |
| 07:18 | cait left #koha | |
| 07:51 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 07:58 | paul_p | good morning everybody |
| 08:02 | chris | hi paul_p |
| 08:02 | ivanc joined #koha | |
| 08:02 | paul_p | evening chris |
| 08:11 | kf joined #koha | |
| 08:11 | kf | hi #koha |
| 08:13 | paul_p | kf, 'morning germany |
| 08:13 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 08:17 | kf | hi paul |
| 08:25 | magnus joined #koha | |
| 08:26 | kf | guten morgen magnus :) |
| 08:26 | magnus | god morgen, kf :-) |
| 08:28 | paul_p | hello magnus |
| 08:29 | magnus | bon jour paul_p |
| 08:29 | saorge_ joined #koha | |
| 08:29 | paul_p | tiens un belge. 'morning saorge_ ! |
| 08:29 | saorge left #koha | |
| 08:31 | ivanc | hi #koha |
| 08:31 | magnus | hiya ivanc |
| 08:42 | ivanc | hi magnus |
| 08:57 | munin | New commit(s) kohagit: bug 5380: remove copy-and-paste from authorities/detail.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]198d3827625384e70> |
| 09:02 | hdl | hi magnus |
| 09:02 | magnus | hi hdl |
| 09:05 | miguelxer joined #koha | |
| 09:07 | paul_p left #koha | |
| 09:09 | slef | oops... didn't think anyone would still be using our redirect |
| 09:09 | bbl | |
| 09:14 | hdl | hi miguelxer |
| 09:14 | how are you ? | |
| 09:14 | Hi slef | |
| 09:18 | kf | hi slef *waves* |
| 09:26 | Lee joined #koha | |
| 09:31 | Lee left #koha | |
| 09:38 | slef | hi hdl kf |
| 09:38 | * slef | off to present koha and kohacon10 |
| 09:38 | rereads nengard's blog posts | |
| 09:38 | kmkale left #koha | |
| 09:39 | kf | slef: my turn is on tuesday :) |
| 09:41 | kmkale joined #koha | |
| 09:43 | slef | kf: cool. any tips? |
| 09:44 | hrmph. now I'm back in the uk, the cell drops ssh connections when moving from 3g to 2g :-/ | |
| 09:45 | kf | slef: no, will show photos of the road trip probably |
| 09:45 | koha is not so interesting for most of them ;) | |
| 09:54 | miguelxer left #koha | |
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| 10:54 | thd-away` is now known as thd | |
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| 11:29 | kmkale left #koha | |
| 11:53 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 12:19 | thd | Good morning nengard |
| 12:19 | kf | hi thd :) |
| 12:19 | hi nengard :) | |
| 12:20 | thd | Hello kf |
| 12:21 | nengard | morning kf and thd |
| 12:24 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 12:41 | nengard left #koha | |
| 12:43 | Topic for #koha is now Next general meeting today at 19:00 UTC+0. This channel is logged. RFC How-To here: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:RFCs | |
| 12:48 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 12:52 | magnus | hi druthb |
| 12:52 | druthb | hi, magnus! |
| 12:54 | kf | hi druthb :) |
| 12:54 | druthb | hi, kf! :) |
| 12:57 | jcamins_a is now known as jcamins | |
| 12:57 | jcamins | Good morning, #koha |
| 13:01 | druthb | good morning, jcamins. :) |
| 13:01 | jcamins | druthb: do I recall correctly that jwagner said you got Koha running on a netbook? |
| 13:01 | druthb | That would be me, yes. |
| 13:01 | jcamins | How did it work? |
| 13:02 | druthb | I wouldn't call it running, precisely...walking, very slowly, perhaps. The netbook in question is an Asus EEE 900A, with (at that time) half-a-gig of RAM, and a 4 GB SSHD. Not a lot of elbow room. |
| 13:03 | It was running a very early release of Easy Peasy, which is Ubuntu on an extreme diet. | |
| 13:04 | jcamins | Heh. I think I probably won't be trying it, then. |
| 13:04 | druthb | The installation went normally for a Debian install-on-a-new-box, no trouble at all. |
| 13:05 | A more up-to-date netbook would have no particular trouble, I don't imagine, running any of the Debian-derived OSes for netbooks. I had to mount a 2 GB SD card to have enough disk space; those things are creepy-slow, which did not help. | |
| 13:12 | * jcamins | is thinking about how to test new Koha features during "downtime" on the train, etc. |
| 13:13 | jwagner left #koha | |
| 13:14 | jcamins | Apparently that's such a horrifying thought I scared away jwagner? |
| 13:15 | magnus | jcamins: shouldn't be too hard as long as you don't need "online resources", like doing a z39.50 search? |
| 13:15 | druthb | If you got a netbook with at least a gig, and more disk space, it should be fine, though it might be a little bit slow. The ones I'm seeing around right now with 160GB drives and 2GB of RAM would be fine. |
| 13:15 | jcamins | druthb: that's not a netbook! That's a laptop replacement! |
| 13:15 | druthb | (And Easy Peasy's latest release is a pleasure to use, too, and easy to install.) |
| 13:16 | There are plenty for about $250 bucks that have 1 GB RAM and the Atom N450 processor; that'd work, too. | |
| 13:18 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 13:18 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 13:18 | laurence left #koha | |
| 13:19 | druthb | my little Eee is dandy for checking email, surfing the web, Skype and such, but I wouldn't try to do any serious dev work on it. I'd like to buy me a much better lappy, just haven't yet. |
| 13:35 | owen joined #koha | |
| 13:43 | kf | thx gmcharlt |
| 13:44 | gmcharlt++ :) | |
| 13:47 | sekjal joined #koha | |
| 13:48 | owen | Hi sekjal, #koha, etc. |
| 13:48 | kf | hi owen |
| 13:48 | sekjal | morning, owen |
| 13:48 | and good morning, #koha | |
| 13:48 | jcamins | Hi owen, sekjal, and kf |
| 13:48 | * owen | doesn't know who "etc" entails exactly |
| 13:48 | sekjal | hi, jcamins! |
| 13:49 | sekjal is now known as etc | |
| 13:49 | etc is now known as sekjal | |
| 13:49 | kf | hi sekjal :) |
| 13:49 | sekjal | hi, kf! |
| 13:51 | crazy idea: a #koha internet radio station | |
| 13:52 | jcamins | sekjal: what would it play? |
| 13:52 | owen | Along with an RM and a QA we'd need a DJ |
| 13:53 | sekjal | good music... maybe some news every now and again |
| 13:53 | kf | chris_n: around? |
| 13:54 | magnus | sekjal: text2speach irc bot? |
| 13:54 | sekjal | magnus: Oh! text2music! |
| 13:54 | kf | reading the koha code? |
| 13:54 | sekjal | convert each character or series of characters into a note |
| 13:55 | and represent each speaker with a different instrument, Peter and the Wolf-style | |
| 13:55 | jcamins | Nifty! |
| 13:55 | chris_n | hi kf |
| 13:56 | kf | hi chris_N |
| 13:56 | N = n | |
| 13:56 | magnus | hehe, i guess it shouldn't be too hard - but making it sound like anything other than noise? ;-) |
| 13:56 | bigbrovar joined #koha | |
| 13:56 | kf | about fines in notices: you tested with master and it didn't work, right? |
| 13:56 | bigbrovar left #koha | |
| 13:56 | kf | and your patch didn't work? so just test it again with master? |
| 13:56 | chris_n | yes |
| 13:56 | sekjal | magnus: we'd just have to learn to write musically |
| 13:56 | chris_n | kf: correct |
| 13:57 | please | |
| 13:57 | kf | oki |
| 13:57 | I am working on it right now :) sorry that it took so long | |
| 13:57 | * sekjal | is only 4 sips into is first cup of coffee, and may be a little sleep-silly |
| 14:04 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 14:04 | Brooke | yo |
| 14:05 | sekjal | morning, Brooke |
| 14:05 | kf | chris_n: testing it with my older version first, then updating to master and testing again |
| 14:06 | magnus | yo Brooke |
| 14:06 | Brooke | :) |
| 14:07 | druthb | hi, Brooke. :) |
| 14:09 | * Brooke | is caterwauling to showtunes |
| 14:10 | * druthb | tries to picture Brooke "caterwauling", and fails the roll. |
| 14:11 | Brooke | catastrophic: you're a flaming wreck now :P |
| 14:43 | * wizzyrea | just read the backlog...wow |
| 14:43 | wizzyrea | chris has a koha hacking playlist on grooveshark |
| 14:43 | sekjal | wizzyrea: nice! this album is almost finished, so I'll try to tune in next |
| 14:44 | braedon|h | wizzyrea: link? |
| 14:44 | wizzyrea | I will have to find it, one sec |
| 14:45 | * braedon|h | has spent the last 2 hours listening to random mashups, rather than sleeping |
| 14:45 | * owen | is a mashup fan |
| 14:46 | wizzyrea | http://listen.grooveshark.com/[…]a+Hacking/8190140 |
| 14:46 | does this work? | |
| 14:47 | braedon|h | i belive so, thanks |
| 14:47 | wizzyrea | woot |
| 14:47 | Brooke | hai |
| 14:47 | wizzyrea | note: not MY koha hacking playlist, it's Chris's |
| 14:47 | braedon|h | ooo, but it has minuit :( |
| 14:48 | (my least favorite NZ band) | |
| 14:50 | * Brooke | should have nicked Ema's CD when she had the chance... |
| 14:50 | braedon|h | my eternal dilemma with playlists and albums - skip a song i hate, or endure to preserve the experience in its entirety |
| 14:50 | Brooke | pfft |
| 14:50 | one two skip a few | |
| 14:51 | life's too short bro | |
| 14:51 | wizzyrea | sekjal, magnus, and chris_n: we kind of use bugzilla for what you're proposing using mediawiki for, and there's a page that lists everything listed as enhancement, and what the status is: http://koha-community.org/about/enhancing-koha/ |
| 14:51 | again, it hinges on people actually using it | |
| 14:51 | Brooke | true, but it would allow the bugzilla phoebic to avoid bugzilla |
| 14:51 | wizzyrea | the prior contention was that the bugzilla phobic need to get over it. |
| 14:52 | * chris_n | imagines a bugzilla plug-in for wikimedia |
| 14:52 | wizzyrea | there's no reason you couldn't embed the rss feed for those searches into the wiki. |
| 14:53 | sekjal | well, it would be a good exercise in Template Toolkit to write a new interface to Bugzilla that's more librarian-friendly for searching/adding/editing enhancement requests |
| 14:54 | magnus | i think one question is: should the meat of an RFC be on bugzilla or in mediawiki? |
| 14:54 | wizzyrea | I think it should be on the wiki, with an entry in bugzilla pointing to it |
| 14:54 | * chris_n | thinks that is the question |
| 14:54 | wizzyrea | why do just one? |
| 14:54 | chris_n | but keeping the two in sync appears to be an issue |
| 14:54 | sekjal | neither system is quite right, but the wiki is closer |
| 14:54 | I vote Wave-in-a-Box! | |
| 14:55 | magnus | and the wiki allows for collaborative editing... |
| 14:55 | braedon|h | Brooke: a good playlist is so much more than the sum of its parts! |
| 14:55 | chris_n | magnus: could such a setup as you are proposing be made to post to bugzilla automagically? |
| 14:55 | magnus | chris_n: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/[…]:Bugzilla_Reports (if you didn't see it already) |
| 14:55 | kf | ok, I have fines but no entries in message_queue... hmpf! |
| 14:55 | magnus | chris_n: dunno |
| 14:55 | * chris_n | passes kf more fudge |
| 14:56 | kf | chris_n: when you said it didn't work for you - did it still create the messages or was that broken too? |
| 14:56 | thx :) | |
| 14:56 | chris_n | "Provide reports easy for non-techies to read." |
| 14:57 | kf: it generates messages, but includes $0.00 for all fines regardless of their true value | |
| 14:57 | Brooke | I think the bar is access. If you don't give a snot about your users, post solely to bugzilla. If you do, duplicate information in friendly formats, then funnel to a developer preferred locale. |
| 14:58 | chris_n | well it sounds like the plugin magnus references would work to update the wiki from bugzilla |
| 14:58 | so if the RFC was entered as a bug it could then automatically show in the wiki | |
| 14:59 | magnus | chris_n: yep, but wouldn't create a page in the wiki |
| 14:59 | kf | chris_n: Ithink it's my configuration... something is still missing |
| 14:59 | will figure it out | |
| 14:59 | chris_n | but then there are those who have acrophobia or some other bug-phobia which biases them against bugzilla |
| 14:59 | kf: tnx for the help | |
| 15:00 | arachnophobia, rather | |
| 15:01 | wizzyrea | I would create a bug with the right status, and the exact same title as your RFC on the wiki, then link it to your fulltext on the wiki. |
| 15:02 | kf | chris_n: I offered to help - now I have to live with it ;) |
| 15:02 | wizzyrea | which is supposedly what we're supposed to be doing now. |
| 15:02 | * wizzyrea | remembers this discussion from kohacon 2 years ago |
| 15:03 | kf | chris_n: know I now what it wrong - my dates |
| 15:04 | * chris_n | read magnus' suggestion as an improvement to the layout and clarity of the wiki part of an RFC post |
| 15:04 | chris_n | not so much as a rework of the in-place procedure |
| 15:04 | Brooke | *nod* |
| 15:04 | If I could do one thing to this community | |
| 15:04 | wizzyrea | definitely the template could be improved. |
| 15:05 | Brooke | I'd change the default in people's heads from OR to AND |
| 15:05 | * kf | is a bit scared of having Brooke messing with her head |
| 15:05 | hides | |
| 15:05 | chris_n | Brooke: the problem is, low-level logic circuits are usually hard-wired |
| 15:05 | * Brooke | can't take this good smelling box anymore. |
| 15:05 | magnus | chris_n: well put - i'm not really in favor of moving thing from bugzilla or replicating information - just making the wiki "better" |
| 15:06 | Brooke | I must know what's inside!!!1 |
| 15:06 | braedon|h | you can take our lives, but you can never take our boolean preference! |
| 15:06 | magnus | s/thing/things/ |
| 15:08 | wizzyrea | I know for a fact that the RFC template was literally a 5 minute job. |
| 15:08 | so certainly it could be made better. | |
| 15:08 | chris_n | the real "challenge" here is getting folks to actually *use* whatever system... and for starters they have to take time to find and read the existing docs |
| 15:08 | Brooke | bollocks. it was bowling pins, but the box smelt like chocolate and coffee. |
| 15:08 | it's getting better chris | |
| 15:09 | at least I think it is | |
| 15:09 | wizzyrea | That is what I feel this page is for http://koha-community.org/about/enhancing-koha/ |
| 15:09 | linking to all of the existing documentation | |
| 15:09 | please, if you want to add something, do. | |
| 15:11 | Brooke | is there an automated way of deduplicating like RFCs? |
| 15:14 | kf | hmpf |
| 15:14 | what was the perl package on ubuntu to fix Can't locate Business/ISBN.pm | |
| 15:14 | ? | |
| 15:14 | magnus | libbusiness-isbn-perl ? |
| 15:15 | kf | thx |
| 15:15 | thd | Brooke: the default in my head has always been AND. |
| 15:17 | magnus | anyway, i think a form would be friendlier then the plain ol' template for adding RFCs to the wiki - and the template already duplicates info that should be in bugzilla... |
| 15:17 | Brooke | *nod* |
| 15:18 | chris_n | magnus: i wonder if the form could be setup to post relevant info to an associated bug in BZ upon posting to the wiki? |
| 15:18 | that might add a level of abstraction for the fearful, yet ensure the process was still followed | |
| 15:19 | magnus | chris_n: that sounds like a lot of work - you'd need to keep the info synced too - better to keep it in one place, methinks |
| 15:20 | Brooke | magnus- is there an automated way to sync the information? |
| 15:20 | * chris_n | doesn't think we can get away from enh bugs for RFC's |
| 15:20 | magnus | Brooke: not that I know of, but it should be possible to pull the info into the wiki |
| 15:21 | wizzyrea | question: why does it matter, if all that is in the wiki RFC is the narrative of the feature? |
| 15:21 | * Brooke | thinks that the user stands a better chance of seeing their enhancement through the more effort one puts into the process, but admits that "improper" procedure is better than no flow of information. |
| 15:21 | wizzyrea | why not keep the nuts and bolts of it in bz |
| 15:21 | Brooke | it matters from a usability standpoint |
| 15:22 | and arguably from a long term quality standpoint, as well | |
| 15:24 | wizzyrea | when I say nuts and bolts, I mean things that bz already asks for |
| 15:25 | expected date. version. All that needs to be in the bug is the link to the wiki | |
| 15:25 | sponsored status | |
| 15:26 | short description, link to fulltext. | |
| 15:26 | tcohen left #koha | |
| 15:30 | brendan | morning |
| 15:31 | sekjal | morning, brendan |
| 15:31 | cfouts joined #koha | |
| 15:31 | brendan | morning sekjal |
| 15:31 | sekjal | and g'morning, cfouts |
| 15:31 | cfouts | good day |
| 15:32 | chris_n | heya cfouts |
| 15:32 | brendan | heya cgouts |
| 15:32 | heh | |
| 15:32 | cfouts that is | |
| 15:32 | cfouts | better than what some have called me ;) |
| 15:34 | Brooke | which is prolly way better than what most call me ;) |
| 15:34 | kf | we are talking a lot about how to make a rfc the right way - but still not talking about the existing ones |
| 15:34 | cfouts | meeting today is at 11am Pacific, yes? |
| 15:34 | kf | I think that's the problem where we started? |
| 15:34 | and I feel guilty too, because I have not commented on the rfc's - asked questions | |
| 15:35 | perhaps we don't have so much discussion, because we don't have many questions, or because the proposed features seem ok to us | |
| 15:35 | I am not sure | |
| 15:35 | magnus | kf: that's what i'm thinking too - tacit agreement... |
| 15:36 | sekjal | kf: I know that I feel a little awkward commenting if I have nothing useful to add, and often the RFCs are pretty good as laid out |
| 15:36 | kf | yep |
| 15:36 | that's my problem too | |
| 15:36 | perhaps we just need a section: supporting as laid out... | |
| 15:36 | where you can add a ++ ;) | |
| 15:37 | chris_n | well, even a simple "I concur" would be a step |
| 15:37 | Brooke | yep check box for sounds cool to me |
| 15:37 | sekjal | this is another usecase for a community voting system |
| 15:37 | kf | don't make it too complicated |
| 15:37 | chris_n | need I mention that BZ has a voting system |
| 15:37 | kf | but I have to go and get some rest now before the meeting - d... cold |
| 15:37 | what is BZ? | |
| 15:37 | chris_n | bugzilla |
| 15:38 | sorry | |
| 15:38 | Brooke | thought it was disabled |
| 15:38 | * magnus | gotta make dinner - see y'all for the meeting! |
| 15:38 | magnus is now known as magnus_a | |
| 15:45 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 15:47 | * Brooke | salutes nengard with respect. |
| 15:50 | nengard | howdy Brooke and all #koha |
| 15:50 | chris_n | Brooke: nope |
| 15:50 | it works afaik | |
| 15:56 | druthb left #koha | |
| 15:56 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 15:57 | Brooke | bonjour, flying frenchman! |
| 15:58 | kf | hi hdl |
| 15:58 | and time to leave - goodbye all | |
| 15:58 | alex_a left #koha | |
| 15:59 | Brooke | cheers cait |
| 16:04 | kf left #koha | |
| 16:10 | owen is now known as owen-away | |
| 16:11 | sekjal | wizzyrea: around? |
| 16:11 | wizzyrea | yep |
| 16:12 | sup? | |
| 16:12 | i closed all my tabs. I feel a bit naked. | |
| 16:12 | sekjal | the bywater demo is now running 3.2; website still says 3.01.00.143 |
| 16:13 | wizzyrea | k I'll fix i |
| 16:13 | t | |
| 16:13 | sekjal | thanks! |
| 16:13 | I can get you an exact version number if that'd be helpful | |
| 16:13 | wizzyrea | no, I like 3.2 |
| 16:13 | :) | |
| 16:13 | sekjal | k |
| 16:13 | Brooke | yeah, some ratbag pestered Bywater to upgrade, and they did in like 10 seconds. |
| 16:13 | dafydd joined #koha | |
| 16:14 | sekjal | I'm thinking of switching the demo over to run off the debian packages |
| 16:14 | Brooke | Noswaith dda |
| 16:14 | wizzyrea | done |
| 16:14 | up 2 u really | |
| 16:14 | sekjal | thanks, wizzyrea! |
| 16:15 | the primary draw is that the debian packages make restoring much easier | |
| 16:15 | I've got a bit of a hack in place right now | |
| 16:15 | wizzyrea | might take a minute to show for you since you're not logged in (it's cached) |
| 16:15 | sekjal | k |
| 16:16 | hdl | hi Brooke and all |
| 16:16 | sekjal | hi, hdl |
| 16:23 | chris_n | hey hdl |
| 16:28 | hdl: if we used submodules, then we would basically be maintaining separate repos for each submodule? | |
| 16:29 | or does git take care of all of that in a transparent fashion? | |
| 16:38 | ivanc left #koha | |
| 16:38 | Brooke left #koha | |
| 16:38 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 16:39 | slef | sekjal: I'm going to do the same with our demo soon. |
| 16:40 | wizzyrea | slef: please add it to the wiki at http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ha_Demo_Databases so I can pull it into the website |
| 16:40 | stephane_ left #koha | |
| 16:42 | slef | wizzyrea: ok |
| 16:42 | wizzyrea | ty kindly |
| 16:42 | sekjal | slef: right on! |
| 16:43 | does anyone know of a UNIMARC demo out there? I'm only seeing MARC21 on the wiki | |
| 16:43 | slef | if it works, I'll start using them on client libs next week or two |
| 16:44 | sekjal: biblibre? | |
| 16:44 | wizzyrea | I don't see a demo on their site anywhere |
| 16:45 | sekjal | slef: that would be my first thought, yes, but it's not on the wiki page |
| 16:45 | slef | sure they uised to have one... not on http://www.koha-fr.org/ ? |
| 16:45 | bah, I'm going to be in a notspot for 5mins during today's meeting | |
| 16:46 | wizzyrea | there's one listed there ya |
| 16:46 | slef | unavoidable :-/ |
| 16:46 | wizzyrea | 3.00.05.001 |
| 16:46 | slef | anyone tell if it's unimarc? |
| 16:47 | jcamins | Oh, right, meeting in an hour? |
| 16:47 | wizzyrea | but I will add it — yup, unimarc |
| 16:47 | sekjal | very misleading news headling in the Koha Planet section of www.koha-fr.org |
| 16:47 | slef | should we add a "request upgrade" page to "Tools"? |
| 16:47 | jcamins: 2 I think | |
| 16:48 | sekjal: wassat? I have slow web, on trains | |
| 16:48 | sekjal | PTFS Code Integrated Into Mainline Koha |
| 16:48 | slef | oof |
| 16:49 | sekjal | the article is about the wiki page for tracking the integration efforts of Harley into Koha |
| 16:49 | slef | I got asked about that today. Whether all harley code would be in 3.4. I fudged as I'm not sure. |
| 16:50 | sekjal | no one knows for certain (expect perhaps chris), but hopefully we can get all the gems integrated by April 22 |
| 16:51 | slef | this train sounds ill, like it can't get enough power to accelerate |
| 16:52 | wizzyrea | sekjal: biblibre's demo of 3.0.5 is now on the list |
| 16:52 | sekjal | wizzyrea: great! |
| 16:52 | slef | sekjal: I tried to print one of your interrelation graphs. decided against showing it to users because it's too scary. |
| 16:52 | sekjal | slef: next one should be smaller |
| 16:53 | going to remove all the nodes that aren't linked to, or don't link out | |
| 16:53 | cait joined #koha | |
| 16:53 | cait | hi #koha |
| 16:53 | sekjal | hi, cait! |
| 16:53 | slef | all change! bbi 20 |
| 16:53 | Brooke | howdy |
| 16:53 | cait | hi sekjal :) |
| 17:00 | jwagner | meeting is in not quite two hours from now, yes? |
| 17:01 | sekjal | I have it as 3pm Eastern... but I'm willing to accept my clock got messed up with all the travel and daylight savings |
| 17:01 | Brooke | http://www.worldtimeserver.com[…]_time_in_UTC.aspx |
| 17:01 | jwagner | The converter on the wiki page said 2:00 ET |
| 17:01 | sekjal | I stand corrected |
| 17:01 | thd | jamins: I think that the general Koha IRC meeting is in an hour and 45 minutes. |
| 17:02 | jwagner | Good -- I have another meeting before then, wanted to make sure I wasn't doubled up. |
| 17:02 | jwagner is now known as jwag_mtg | |
| 17:03 | Brooke | poor kiwis |
| 17:03 | poked from sound sleep for IRCery | |
| 17:03 | thd | jcamins: see above [spelt correctly this time] |
| 17:04 | Johnindy_ left #koha | |
| 17:07 | hdl | chris_n: if we used submodules, then we would basically be maintaining separate repos for each submodule? : yes. |
| 17:08 | chris_n: Does git take care of all that in a transparent fashion ? | |
| 17:08 | Provided that you use git submodule synhc or update... well... quite. | |
| 17:08 | sekjal: koha-fr demo | |
| 17:08 | but quite old | |
| 17:09 | slef: univ_lyon3.biblibre.com is unimarc | |
| 17:10 | slef | hdl: ta. Sekjal wanted one. |
| 17:10 | hdl | sorry was back reading |
| 17:26 | * jcamins | curses Ariel |
| 17:27 | jcamins | Why does every document on Ariel always have to be resized to 8.5"x11"? (I know it's not a Koha question, but there's actually a chance that someone here might know) |
| 17:29 | Does Gitorious allow you to set up repositories so that multiple people can push to the individual repository? | |
| 17:29 | Brooke | so it can print on standard paper? |
| 17:29 | hdl left #koha | |
| 17:30 | jcamins | Brooke: but documents from ILLiad print properly, and without the ridiculous amount of whitespace around the edges that make printing 2-up impossible. |
| 17:31 | Brooke | fine then my hunch that it's just to annoy you was correct :P |
| 17:31 | jcamins | Heh. I guess so. |
| 17:32 | Brooke | OMG mah ivory hearts |
| 17:32 | I was looking all over for those | |
| 17:32 | wizzyrea | ? |
| 17:32 | Brooke | clearly the solution was to look for mah needlenose nylon plyers |
| 17:33 | slef | jcamins; I think both chris and I push to the koha repo there. |
| 17:33 | chris | yep |
| 17:33 | btw, 8am is right when im gonna be on the bus | |
| 17:34 | so while i will be at the meeting on irc on my phone | |
| 17:34 | it might be a bit hard to chair it | |
| 17:34 | jcamins | slef: Cool, thanks. |
| 17:34 | chris | any volunteers? |
| 17:34 | slef | chris on a bus. Me on a train. Anyone going for other transport? |
| 17:34 | chris | heh |
| 17:35 | sekjal | jcamins: don't know about Gitorious, but I'm pretty sure Gitolite does (and that's why git.koha-community.org uses) |
| 17:35 | slef | jcamins? |
| 17:36 | wizzyrea | gitolite… best name ever. |
| 17:36 | slef | wizzyrea! |
| 17:36 | wizzyrea | slef! |
| 17:37 | slef | chair? |
| 17:37 | * wizzyrea | wonders if she can channel gmcharlt |
| 17:37 | wizzyrea | let me go look at the agenda |
| 17:37 | sec | |
| 17:39 | slef | ta |
| 17:39 | bbi60 | |
| 17:40 | wizzyrea | yea, sure I'll do my best |
| 17:40 | you may not ask again tho >.> | |
| 17:43 | cait | you will have to very strict with us |
| 17:43 | a lot of items on the agenda | |
| 17:44 | Johnindy joined #koha | |
| 17:45 | wizzyrea | true |
| 17:45 | afk, but back in plenty of time for the meeting | |
| 17:47 | sekjal is now known as sekjal_a | |
| 17:48 | chris | ok, gotta go feed kids, do rubbbish, etc before my bus |
| 17:50 | collum joined #koha | |
| 17:57 | gmcharlt | meeting is in 45 minutes, right? |
| 17:57 | if so, I'll be available to chair | |
| 17:57 | Brooke | hail to the chief |
| 17:57 | cait | gmcharlt: thank you for signing-off on my patch |
| 17:57 | wizzyrea | woot galen |
| 17:58 | cait | :) |
| 18:01 | nengard | 45 min? really? I thought it was later - cool I can be there for some of it |
| 18:06 | gmcharlt | worldtimeserver.com says that it's currently 18:22 UTC+0 |
| 18:06 | so I think it is at 14:00 EST | |
| 18:06 | nengard | thanks |
| 18:06 | gmcharlt | unless the switch from daylight savings has thrown me off |
| 18:06 | nengard | stupid saylight savings time |
| 18:06 | or daylight | |
| 18:09 | wizzyrea | cait: did you see those patches from Amit (and/or jcamins) |
| 18:10 | cait | about analytics? from Amit then |
| 18:10 | wizzyrea | ya |
| 18:10 | cait | ya |
| 18:10 | had no time looking at them :( and not sure what will happen with my work on the topic | |
| 18:10 | it's on a public repo now, but I should have commented on the rfc earlier | |
| 18:11 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 18:11 | wizzyrea | ah I was wondering if you had looked at them yet, I know you and jcamins are both interested in that |
| 18:11 | jcamins | They address two different issues. |
| 18:11 | wizzyrea | k |
| 18:12 | jcamins | Well, some of the same issues. |
| 18:12 | But I think cait's changes will still be needed. | |
| 18:12 | Looking at it more is on my to-do list. | |
| 18:12 | cait | yeah on mine two |
| 18:12 | too | |
| 18:12 | wizzyrea | cool, that's really the only reason I brought it up |
| 18:12 | cait | it's a time problem :( |
| 18:12 | jcamins | This is one of the difficulties of having differing priorities at home and at the ANS. |
| 18:13 | francharb left #koha | |
| 18:13 | cait | and I have another presentation next week to prepare for |
| 18:13 | it's been all a bit crazy in the last months | |
| 18:14 | hope it will get better... but probably not | |
| 18:14 | chris | i can help you guys to merge, yours plus amits, if you think they are both needed thats certainly possible |
| 18:15 | * Brooke | cheers Chris |
| 18:16 | wizzyrea | infinite_time++ |
| 18:16 | chris | chris_phone_being_notcharged-- |
| 18:16 | wizzyrea | oof |
| 18:16 | Brooke | teh ohnoes |
| 18:16 | chris | hopefully it gets enough charge before the bus |
| 18:16 | but if i go silent thats why | |
| 18:18 | cait and anyone else interested | |
| 18:18 | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]nalytical_records | |
| 18:18 | cait | yep, saw the branch |
| 18:19 | chris | i will push the new patch that just came through today to there as well |
| 18:19 | cait | do you think it would help to push my work to a branch as well? |
| 18:19 | chris | yes please |
| 18:19 | if you can give me a branch to pull from | |
| 18:19 | cait | ok, pull request? |
| 18:19 | gmcharlt | chris: what would it take to get hudsonbot running again? |
| 18:19 | chris | yup |
| 18:19 | cait | my latest work is up on the repo |
| 18:19 | chris | cool |
| 18:20 | cait | you helped me updating it during kohacon :) |
| 18:20 | chris | i can merge it in |
| 18:20 | cait | ah, but perhaps I should rebase first? |
| 18:20 | chris | wouldnt hurt |
| 18:20 | cait | ok |
| 18:20 | will try to do that today or tomorrow morning | |
| 18:20 | chris | gmcharlt: me figuring out why it stopped |
| 18:21 | ill make a branch with yours and osslabs work merged (and 2 sep branches) | |
| 18:21 | then ppl can test them both, or just one or the other | |
| 18:21 | cait | cool :) |
| 18:21 | chris | ideally the both one will work, and we can merge that into master |
| 18:21 | cait | I have some sample records to test with too |
| 18:21 | chris | excellent |
| 18:21 | cait | where can we store them? |
| 18:21 | chris | gmcharlt: so time :) |
| 18:22 | cait: the wiki? | |
| 18:22 | cait | ok |
| 18:22 | I will have to clean them a little bit, I think 2 authorities crept in | |
| 18:22 | anitsirk joined #koha | |
| 18:22 | cait | hi kristina |
| 18:22 | *waves* | |
| 18:22 | wizzyrea | hey kristina |
| 18:23 | miguelxer joined #koha | |
| 18:23 | anitsirk | hello cait and wizzyrea |
| 18:23 | how are you? | |
| 18:23 | wizzyrea | good :) |
| 18:23 | and you? | |
| 18:23 | anitsirk | as well. it's been a very sunny and warm week again in wgtn |
| 18:24 | wizzyrea | woohoo! (dang I miss wgtn) |
| 18:24 | owen-away is now known as owen | |
| 18:25 | Lee joined #koha | |
| 18:25 | anitsirk | we miss you here, too. |
| 18:27 | nengard | Lee!! :) |
| 18:27 | wizzyrea | hey lee :) |
| 18:27 | Lee | Nicole! |
| 18:27 | nengard | :) |
| 18:27 | Lee | I have pics for you |
| 18:27 | cait | hi lee :) |
| 18:27 | Lee | you too Liz |
| 18:27 | nengard | pics?? :) |
| 18:27 | ooo | |
| 18:27 | Lee | yup |
| 18:28 | * cait | wants pics too |
| 18:28 | Lee | Just got to picasa will send links to you |
| 18:28 | nengard | hehe |
| 18:28 | picassa? I found you on flickr? why not flickr? | |
| 18:28 | cait | do you have the video of pual and hdl doing the haka? |
| 18:28 | hudsonbot joined #koha | |
| 18:28 | Lee | BTW Nic talked with Stef and we think Butte in March is a great idea |
| 18:28 | nengard | k |
| 18:29 | and i talked to doc and he put me on new drugs - so no surgery between now and january at the very least | |
| 18:29 | maybe longer if the drugs work | |
| 18:29 | Lee | Sooo if you have he week free I will let you know the rest after board meeting next wed. |
| 18:29 | hudsonbot left #koha | |
| 18:29 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 18:29 | Lee | I hope the drugs works...(selfish motives) |
| 18:29 | nengard | i have you pencilled in - so go ahead and tell the board |
| 18:30 | i'll schedule surgery around it if drugs don't work :) | |
| 18:30 | Lee | ex-cell-ent! |
| 18:30 | hudsonbot joined #koha | |
| 18:30 | wizzyrea | hi hudson! |
| 18:30 | Lee | you can bring your book... |
| 18:31 | nengard | only if I ever get it |
| 18:31 | Barrc joined #koha | |
| 18:31 | magnus_a is now known as magnus | |
| 18:31 | anitsirk | hi magnus |
| 18:31 | Lee | liz the pic i took at Jo's library of you is cute... it will be in the albums for Flickr...okay? |
| 18:32 | jwag_mtg is now known as jwagner | |
| 18:32 | chris | !hudson status |
| 18:32 | hudsonbot | status of all projects: |
| 18:32 | Koha_3.0.x: last build: 2 (10 days ago): FAILURE: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]job/Koha_3.0.x/2/ | |
| 18:32 | Koha_3.2.x: last build: 25 (3 hr 48 min ago): SUCCESS: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/25/ | |
| 18:32 | Koha_Master: last build: 135 (9 hr 32 min ago): SUCCESS: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]/Koha_Master/135/ | |
| 18:32 | chris | there we go |
| 18:32 | anitsirk | hi chris and jwagner |
| 18:32 | chris: are you upstairs? | |
| 18:32 | chris | no |
| 18:32 | im about to catch my bus | |
| 18:32 | gmcharlt | chris++ |
| 18:33 | chris | and hopefully irc from there if the phone doesnt cut out |
| 18:33 | hopefully can get past the 3.4 roadmap, and then ill be at work for the rest :) | |
| 18:33 | Barrc | anyone have a quick easy way to remove itemless bibs? |
| 18:34 | anitsirk | chris: hehe. penny was on the train during the mahara irc meeting last night - went off and continued typing on her laptop while walking. |
| 18:34 | indradg | hi all |
| 18:36 | nengard | gonna grab me some soup for lunch and then back here for the meeting |
| 18:36 | dpk joined #koha | |
| 18:36 | Lee | making a cup of 'white tea" LOL |
| 18:37 | Barrc left #koha | |
| 18:38 | Lee | hey Cait ;-) |
| 18:38 | anitsirk | sorry for being slow in putting videos online. i just started on walter's again as it took ages. i upload them in order. rosalie and lee are online (lee was easy as nengard had already uploaded lee's video). |
| 18:38 | Brooke | aye |
| 18:38 | I've linked em to the wiki | |
| 18:38 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 18:39 | robin-hom joined #koha | |
| 18:39 | robin-hom is now known as robinHome | |
| 18:39 | BobB | Good morning good people. |
| 18:39 | Lee | thanks |
| 18:39 | Brooke | kia ora |
| 18:39 | slef | brr |
| 18:40 | anitsirk | hi bob and robin |
| 18:40 | robinHome | hi hi |
| 18:40 | slef | @wunder bristol uk |
| 18:40 | munin | slef: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:40 | slef | @wunder bristol |
| 18:40 | munin | slef: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:40 | Lee | MJ hey! |
| 18:40 | dpk | dpkefdss.org |
| 18:40 | clrh joined #koha | |
| 18:40 | slef | @wunder bristol, united kingdom |
| 18:40 | munin | slef: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:40 | nengard | WOO HOO!! My book has finally arrived!! It flew through JFL no wonder it took so long :) |
| 18:41 | slef | bah |
| 18:41 | BobB | @wunder Sydney |
| 18:41 | munin | BobB: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:41 | magnus | hi anitsirk! |
| 18:41 | slef | @wunder bristol, bristol |
| 18:41 | munin | slef: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:41 | irma joined #koha | |
| 18:41 | BobB | Oh well. Day break in the harbour city |
| 18:41 | gmcharlt | @wunder bristol, united kingdom |
| 18:41 | munin | gmcharlt: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:41 | slef | @wunder bristol airport |
| 18:41 | munin | slef: The current temperature in Bristol Airport, United Kingdom is 2.0�C (6:50 PM GMT on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:41 | cait | @wunder Konstanz |
| 18:41 | anitsirk | sunny in wellington (again) |
| 18:41 | munin | cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 7.6�C (7:58 PM CET on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.55 in 1000.6 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:41 | * Brooke | comforts Bob |
| 18:41 | gmcharlt | @wunder bristol, england |
| 18:41 | munin | gmcharlt: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 18:41 | brendan | @wunder 93117 |
| 18:42 | irma | g'day all |
| 18:42 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 17.9�C (10:58 AM PST on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Steady). Wind Advisory in effect from 3 PM this afternoon to 3 am PST Thursday... |
| 18:42 | cait | hi irma |
| 18:42 | anitsirk | good morning irma |
| 18:42 | Lee | hey Bob B I loved my 3 days in Sydney |
| 18:42 | indradg | @wunder kolkata |
| 18:42 | munin | indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 23.0�C (12:20 AM IST on November 11, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:42 | slef | it doesn't know the city |
| 18:42 | hey Lee | |
| 18:42 | jwagner_ joined #koha | |
| 18:42 | Lee | hi Irma |
| 18:42 | BobB | 23 C is cool in kolkata |
| 18:43 | magnus | @wunder bodo, norway |
| 18:43 | munin | magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -2.0�C (7:50 PM CET on November 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -8.0�C. Pressure: 29.47 in 998 hPa (Falling). |
| 18:43 | clrh | Hello everybody |
| 18:43 | gmcharlt | it is now 19:00 UTC+0 |
| 18:43 | indradg | BobB, you are right |
| 18:43 | thd | slef: are you here? |
| 18:43 | gmcharlt | I am calling the meeting to order |
| 18:43 | slef | eta on this train keeps slipping |
| 18:43 | pauln joined #koha | |
| 18:43 | gmcharlt | the page for the meeting is http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_10_November_2010 |
| 18:44 | before we start with the agenda proper, let's take a couple minutes for introductions | |
| 18:44 | Lee | Weather for Butte, MT - 27°F | °C Current: Cloudy Wind: N at 0 mph Humidity: 62% |
| 18:44 | * gmcharlt | = Galen Charlton, Equinox |
| 18:44 | * owen | = Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library |
| 18:44 | thd | gmcharlt: check my update yesterday to the agenda |
| 18:44 | wizzyrea | < Liz Rea, Northeast Kansas Library System |
| 18:44 | jwagner_ | Jane Wagner, Liblime/PTFS |
| 18:44 | brendan | brendan = Brendan Gallagher ByWater Solutions |
| 18:44 | * sekjal_a | : Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:44 | * jcamins | = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services |
| 18:44 | * nengard | Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions / Documentation Manager |
| 18:44 | sekjal_a is now known as sekjal | |
| 18:44 | irma | Irma from CALYX Sydney |
| 18:44 | BobB | Bob Birchall, Calyx |
| 18:44 | cfouts | Clay Fouts, PTFS |
| 18:44 | * chris | is chris cormack, catalyst, rm 3.4 |
| 18:44 | magnus | Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
| 18:44 | * cait | = Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 18:44 | Colin | Colin Campbell PTFS Europe Ltd |
| 18:44 | anitsirk | = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT |
| 18:44 | Lee | Lee Phillips-Butte Public library Montana |
| 18:44 | * slef | = MJ Ray |
| 18:44 | thd | Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 18:45 | pauln | Paul Nielsen, Hauraki District Libraries |
| 18:45 | robinHome | <-- Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT |
| 18:45 | * clrh | Claire Hernandez I'mnew at Biblibre, France |
| 18:45 | indradg | indradg = Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India |
| 18:45 | * slef | = MJ Ray, software.coop |
| 18:45 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 18:45 | * dpk | Doug Kingston, English Folk Dance and Song Society, London, UK <dpkefdss.org> |
| 18:45 | * Elwell | = Andrew Elwell, Lurker :-) |
| 18:46 | gmcharlt | ok, thanks - newcomers feel free to introduce yourselves as you enter |
| 18:46 | * hdl | Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre release Maitainer 3.0 |
| 18:46 | chris | Crap at 5% already |
| 18:46 | gmcharlt | the first agenda item is Update on Roadmap to 3.2 |
| 18:47 | chris_n: as the 3.2 release maintainer, it's all yours | |
| 18:47 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 18:47 | LBA joined #koha | |
| 18:47 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 18:47 | * owen | didn't see chris_n check in |
| 18:47 | Brooke | jransom says sorry she's late via twitter |
| 18:48 | gmcharlt | chris_n: about? |
| 18:48 | chris | @seen chris_n |
| 18:48 | munin | chris: chris_n was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 19 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <chris_n> or does git take care of all of that in a transparent fashion? |
| 18:48 | davi joined #koha | |
| 18:48 | fredericd | Frédéric Demians, Tamil |
| 18:48 | gmcharlt | if not, I'll relay one thing that chris_n has stated, which is that he intends to release 3.2.1 on 22 November 2010 |
| 18:48 | cait | he told me he was going to lunch earlier |
| 18:48 | chris | Yay |
| 18:48 | gmcharlt | we can go back to that agenda item if need be |
| 18:48 | cait | perhaps he is not back yet |
| 18:49 | gmcharlt | so on to the next, which is Update on 3.0 |
| 18:49 | hdl: the floor is yours | |
| 18:49 | hdl | still to be released. |
| 18:49 | paul_p | Paul Poulain, BibLibre, good morning|evening|afternoon|night|whatever everybody ! |
| 18:49 | LBA | Lori Ayre, Galecia Group. |
| 18:49 | Lee | :-) Paul |
| 18:49 | gmcharlt | hdl: do you have an ETA? |
| 18:49 | hdl | i realised that some new features BibLibre wrote was mistakenly introduced in 3.0.x repository |
| 18:50 | I have to remove them. | |
| 18:50 | next week | |
| 18:50 | gmcharlt | hdl: thanks for the update |
| 18:50 | marlened joined #koha | |
| 18:50 | gmcharlt | any questions regarding 3.0.x/3.0.7 ? |
| 18:50 | going once... | |
| 18:50 | wizzyrea | Thanks to HDL for his continued good work on 3.0.x |
| 18:51 | gmcharlt | indeed |
| 18:51 | going twice ... on to the next agenda item | |
| 18:51 | Update on 3.4, which has two sub-items | |
| 18:51 | moving first to the general update | |
| 18:51 | chris: floor is yours | |
| 18:51 | chris | Ok id paste but it takes too long to find it on the phone |
| 18:52 | Look for roadmap to 3.4 on the wiki | |
| 18:52 | Thems the rules | |
| 18:52 | gmcharlt | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4 |
| 18:52 | nengard | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ki/Roadmap_to_3.4 |
| 18:52 | oops | |
| 18:52 | chris | Follow them and we might hit 6 months |
| 18:52 | :) | |
| 18:52 | slef | how can we track status of rfcs? |
| 18:53 | gmcharlt | I'll summarize some points from that release plan since chris doesn't have easy copy-and-paste |
| 18:53 | chris | I will update any rfcs I have merged code for |
| 18:53 | The rest is up to you guys to sort out | |
| 18:53 | gmcharlt | 1. all patches should have at least one signoff before it hits RM (except for trival patches); preferably two, one from QA manager and one from someones |
| 18:53 | 2. a patches should refer to a bug number | |
| 18:54 | 3. branches will be merged into master after testing | |
| 18:54 | nengard | would it be helpful if people who put up RFCs include a bug/enhancement for it so that that can be the number associated with them both (rfc and patch) ? |
| 18:54 | wizzyrea | and he's also logging his work at http://koha-releasemanagement.branchable.com/ |
| 18:54 | gmcharlt | 4. chris will make exceptions if he feels are needed |
| 18:54 | chris | Yes |
| 18:54 | tajoli joined #koha | |
| 18:54 | slef | ok, so that leaves in-discussion, needs work, help, not for 3.4 and what else? |
| 18:54 | paul_p | slef: good question. |
| 18:54 | hdl | nengard: maybe cross reference could be good |
| 18:54 | chris | Rule 2 makes tracking rfc possible |
| 18:55 | nengard | awesome |
| 18:55 | chris | And rule 2 I won't make many exceptions for |
| 18:55 | thd | slef: you can subscribe an email address to specific pages in the wiki and specific bugs in bugzilla for updates. |
| 18:55 | nengard | so - if you write and rfc report a bug/enhancement and put a link to that on your rfc for the rest of us to help with tracking :) |
| 18:55 | LBA | nengard: ++ |
| 18:55 | gmcharlt | nengard: yes, RFCs should have a corresopnding bug (or bugs, a big RFC could consist of several discrete features) |
| 18:55 | wizzyrea | goes both ways: put a link in your bug to your RFC as well |
| 18:55 | paul_p | chris, foundations like lucene have a roadmap displaying "will be" "maybe", "could be" in the next release on the roadmap. Do you think it could be a good thing ? |
| 18:55 | slef | thd: can you sub to/watch a category? |
| 18:55 | chris | Every patch its bug and every bug its patch |
| 18:56 | paul_p | (or is it eclipse foundation ?) |
| 18:56 | chris | Or else ! |
| 18:56 | cait | Ilove ranganathan |
| 18:56 | hdl | nengard: namely including link to wiki RFC in bug file description... and link to bug in RFC. |
| 18:56 | nengard | :) |
| 18:56 | thd | slef: I am not certain about categories. |
| 18:56 | LBA | thank you gmcharlt! one of my q's answered: multple bug numbers per RFC |
| 18:56 | Brooke | save the time of the developers |
| 18:56 | the code is a living organism | |
| 18:56 | cait | Brooke++ |
| 18:56 | chris | For my rule its all maybe |
| 18:57 | Until I see the code | |
| 18:57 | nengard | chris++ |
| 18:57 | LBA | librarian humor :-D |
| 18:57 | chris | Patch early patch often |
| 18:57 | cait | chris++ |
| 18:57 | chris | I'm not saying yes to anything based on an rfc |
| 18:57 | I might say no tho | |
| 18:57 | :) | |
| 18:57 | hdl | chris : multiple patch can refer to one bug |
| 18:57 | chris | But the proof is in the pudding |
| 18:58 | gmcharlt | hdl: that's not a problem |
| 18:58 | hdl | should all of them have the same bug attached ? |
| 18:58 | paul_p | (the proof is in the pudding ???) |
| 18:58 | hdl | Some patch will fix other bugs. |
| 18:58 | chris | hdl: yes |
| 18:58 | nengard | paul_p it means that if it's good code he'll put it in |
| 18:58 | chris | List them all |
| 18:58 | nengard | once he sees the proof that it's good stuff |
| 18:58 | hdl | So there should be branch for the bug. |
| 18:58 | thd | paul_p: There must be an equivalent expression in French. |
| 18:59 | hdl | maybe a link to the branch exposed could help.... |
| 18:59 | LBA | Chris, might you say yes to the concept at RFC stage? |
| 18:59 | paul_p | (gotcha, thx) |
| 18:59 | gmcharlt | nengard: and proof is easier to come by if we collectively commit to reviewing, testing, and signoff on each other's patches |
| 18:59 | chris | I make branches for every bug yes |
| 18:59 | slef | thd: something to do with souffles IIRC |
| 18:59 | chris | LBA: no |
| 18:59 | cait | I think the more information the better |
| 18:59 | hdl | Should we add that as a remark ? |
| 18:59 | nengard | gmcharlt++ |
| 18:59 | chris | I might say not for this release |
| 18:59 | But ill never promise something for a release | |
| 18:59 | hdl | or use a naming convetion ? |
| 19:00 | chris | From an rfc |
| 19:00 | thd | promises, promises :) |
| 19:00 | paul_p | chris: jumping in my ml-thread question: how will you decide if a feature is something good or not for Koha ? (independantly from being well coded) |
| 19:00 | chris | It all is in the maybe stage |
| 19:00 | wizzyrea | [bug xxxx, xxxx] [Signed Off] Commit message |
| 19:00 | signed off where appropriate | |
| 19:00 | paul_p | I know I'm annoying you when asking this question, but it's still unclear to me! |
| 19:00 | wizzyrea | of course |
| 19:00 | LBA | what's the best I can hope for (as a client contracting with a developer) in terms of what kind of responses my developer might get to his or her RFP? |
| 19:00 | chris | Ill ask people |
| 19:01 | cait | no regression |
| 19:01 | chris | Like I'm doing with analytical stuff |
| 19:01 | paul_p | chris, you'll ask ppl before of after it's submitted ? |
| 19:01 | slef | LBA: yippee, please do? |
| 19:01 | paul_p | if after => pain for the guy who did the job |
| 19:01 | chris | Not my worry |
| 19:02 | paul_p | if before => that's exactly what I want to "implement" in our workflow ! |
| 19:02 | chris | I'm rm not god |
| 19:02 | paul_p | chris : ??? |
| 19:02 | thd | Like committing, ask early and ask often |
| 19:02 | cait | before will not ensure good code |
| 19:02 | paul_p | ok, got it |
| 19:02 | chris | Others should comment on it before it exists |
| 19:02 | slef | so no ageed-in-principle for 3.4? |
| 19:02 | chris | I care once it exists |
| 19:03 | I will certainly say things sound like a good idea | |
| 19:03 | jwagner_ | chris, I have a problem with that workflow -- if we have customers who have contracted for that work, we have to do it and submit it. |
| 19:03 | paul_p | I still feel something is missing in our workflow... |
| 19:03 | * wasabi | waves |
| 19:03 | nengard | as a community we can agree in principle with the idea or suggest tweaks/changes - but i see what chris is saying - he job is to evaluate coda |
| 19:03 | jwagner_ | They would like some assurance that it will be included in a future release. |
| 19:03 | wasabi | morning |
| 19:03 | nengard | and to make sure features aren't scrapped |
| 19:03 | with the new code | |
| 19:03 | (and other stuff i'm sure) | |
| 19:03 | Brooke | (harmony is hard to dictate) |
| 19:04 | chris | nengard yes |
| 19:04 | jwagner: they won't ever get that from me | |
| 19:04 | slef | yay, a train! |
| 19:04 | chris | Until I see the code |
| 19:04 | paul_p | chris, that's 2 differents things ! |
| 19:04 | chris | What if it has sql injections? |
| 19:04 | hdl | but even then... you could say no |
| 19:05 | slef | it's up to the devs to make it good enough for inclusion |
| 19:05 | jwagner_ | chris, two different problems -- the concept and the actual code |
| 19:05 | wizzyrea | fix and resubmit? |
| 19:05 | paul_p | checking if it's technically OK => we all agree. |
| 19:05 | jwagner_ | The concept could be accepted, but the code might need work. |
| 19:05 | chris | Yes |
| 19:05 | nengard | i don't think that the RM should get the only say in what concept is accepted |
| 19:05 | thd | paul_p: What is two different things? |
| 19:05 | nengard | that's a community decision |
| 19:05 | LBA | jwagner++ |
| 19:05 | chris | I don't accept concepts I accept code |
| 19:06 | nengard | chris++ |
| 19:06 | thd | :) |
| 19:06 | jransom joined #koha | |
| 19:06 | LBA | that's what I'm trying to understand...where do concepts get accepted? |
| 19:06 | slef | build consensus around the rfc |
| 19:06 | hdl | how Who ? |
| 19:06 | When ? | |
| 19:06 | nengard | you put up the rfc, the community comments and if the comments are positive the concept is accepted - but if you code it like crap chris gets to throw it out |
| 19:06 | paul_p | slef, OK. So how do we build consensus ? |
| 19:06 | chris | Ok way off topic |
| 19:06 | magnus | nengard++ |
| 19:06 | LBA | what if the community doesn't comment? |
| 19:06 | slef | paul_p: ask me after. |
| 19:07 | chris | So is there anything more about 3.4? |
| 19:07 | slef | LBA: then ask again. |
| 19:07 | brendan | no comments should = go with it - let's see what it looks like |
| 19:07 | nengard | slef++ |
| 19:07 | paul_p | chris: not off topic ! |
| 19:07 | jwagner_ | The customers sponsoring the work are defining the specifications and ultimately the direction of the application (not just our customers, all customers of all vendors). |
| 19:07 | paul_p | what about our RFC for moving to solR for example ? |
| 19:07 | hdl | jwagner_++ |
| 19:07 | chris | This is its own agenda iten |
| 19:07 | For later | |
| 19:07 | slef | I've never had no comment to an RFC, as far as I can recall. |
| 19:08 | jwagner_ | chris, my comment is for later, or the SOLR one? |
| 19:08 | tajoli | That is difficult to say Yes/No on Solr |
| 19:08 | slef | chris: are you ok passing fixed-in-3.4 bugs to 3.2? |
| 19:08 | cait | brendan++ |
| 19:08 | chris | Yes |
| 19:08 | tajoli | I have users that can't use it |
| 19:08 | gmcharlt | there are items later in the agenda that can cover some of this ground |
| 19:08 | slef | tajoli++ |
| 19:08 | gmcharlt | moving onwards |
| 19:08 | paul_p | brendan, that's impossible to "let's see" for large devs ! |
| 19:08 | gmcharlt | sub-item: BibLibre branches submitted to QA (roadmap & what's still expected from BibLibre. feedback from librarians) |
| 19:08 | LBA | cait and brendan....I don't think that's how it works in practice |
| 19:09 | jwagner_ | Sorry, not clear on the responses. What about SOLR? |
| 19:09 | gmcharlt | chris: hdl: paul_p: anything specific to say about that? |
| 19:09 | slef | LBA: oh. What's you most recent experience? |
| 19:09 | tajoli | But Zebra with ICU has many problems |
| 19:09 | sekjal | It would certainly make developers lives easier if there was some kind of criteria we could code towards that would make our developments strong candidates for inclusion |
| 19:09 | hdl | much work has been done |
| 19:10 | for rebasing all the branches. | |
| 19:10 | chris | Send code early and oftwn |
| 19:10 | hdl | our code was always public |
| 19:10 | LBA | slef, basing this belief on what others have said on the list. |
| 19:10 | nengard | this is all under the next agenda item - we're still on roadmap to 3.4 |
| 19:10 | chris | And gmcharlt has done testing on the reports |
| 19:10 | chris_n | back; sorry, got called away |
| 19:10 | hdl | and thanks for that |
| 19:10 | gmcharlt++ | |
| 19:10 | chris | Ok this doesn't work on the phone |
| 19:11 | I can't type fast enough | |
| 19:11 | Bbl | |
| 19:11 | slef | LBA: I'll cover that later. |
| 19:11 | hdl | And rebasing is quite dangerous. |
| 19:11 | paul_p | should we suspend the meeting until chris is fully with us ? |
| 19:11 | slef | chris: I should have given you lessons! |
| 19:11 | hdl | So it could be quite a heavy task to rebase on a day to base those branches. |
| 19:11 | gmcharlt | paul_p: we should - this is a discussion that cannot properly take place without chris |
| 19:11 | hdl | (due to the hard work we are all contributing on 3.2) |
| 19:12 | paul_p | gmcharlt, yep, that's my opinion too |
| 19:12 | nengard | should we go back to chris_n for his update on 3.2? |
| 19:12 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 19:12 | chris_n: please go ahead (I already mentioned the Nov 22nd date for 3.2.1) | |
| 19:12 | trea joined #koha | |
| 19:12 | chris_n | ok, I'm pushing patches as fast as they show up in HEAD at present |
| 19:13 | sekjal | chris_n++ (for that) |
| 19:13 | chris_n | that's the procedure I plan to follow for the foreseeable future |
| 19:13 | cait | chris_n++ |
| 19:13 | gmcharlt | cool |
| 19:13 | paul_p | about this question: i think cherry picking patches from master to stable is one of the pains hdl had with 3.0 RMaint. |
| 19:13 | hdl | chris_n what is your plan when HEAD will diverge from 3.2 ? |
| 19:13 | chris_n | I plan to release ever 30 days unless there are no patches to push |
| 19:13 | paul_p | because there are too much patches on master, and new features & all that stuff |
| 19:13 | chris_n | so Nov 22, Dec 22, etc |
| 19:14 | paul_p | so I think it would be better to have patches on stable cherry picked to master |
| 19:14 | chris_n | hdl: I plan to cross that bridge when I come to it :) |
| 19:14 | * nengard | apologizes but she has to go teach a webinar now - will read the logs later |
| 19:14 | gmcharlt | paul_p: 3.2.x does not need to be all things to all users; with chris' time-based release for 3.4, focuses on bugfixes for 3.2.x is fine |
| 19:14 | paul_p | gmcharlt, ??? |
| 19:14 | slef | chris_n++ |
| 19:14 | magnus left #koha | |
| 19:15 | chris_n | if something turns up uniquely 3.2.x, we will deal with that |
| 19:15 | hdl | Don't you want to think about a plan beforehand ? |
| 19:15 | magnus joined #koha | |
| 19:15 | gmcharlt | paul_p: another way of stating - if a particular patch is too difficult to cherry-pick into 3.2.x, it is likely too much of a new feature to stick into 3.2.x with 3.4 coming in spring 2011 |
| 19:15 | jwagner_ | hdl++ |
| 19:15 | nengard left #koha | |
| 19:15 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:16 | chris_n | hdl: it seems rather clear that when that happens, we will push the patch to a testing branch and then merge it to the 3.2.x branch |
| 19:16 | slef | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:16 | thd | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:16 | paul_p | gmcharlt, how I see it : when there will be X00 patches in master, that will be a BIG deal for chris_n to deal with them. hdl had this problem for 3.0.x |
| 19:17 | do you (all) know if project like Debian on linux does like this ? I thought they had patches for stable & patches for "master", and they were differents | |
| 19:17 | Brooke | early submission means shouldn't be X00 patches at a given moment, no? |
| 19:17 | thd | paul_p: Do you mean too many to examine? |
| 19:17 | gmcharlt | paul_p: chris_n can pick and choose; there is no obligation to backport everything from HED to 3.2.x |
| 19:17 | hdl | I would propose that bugfixes on 3.2 would be submit by companies on both branches when they diverge. |
| 19:17 | richard joined #koha | |
| 19:17 | paul_p | gmcharlt, what is the problem with having patches for 3.2.x and cherry picking them to head ? |
| 19:17 | slef | paul_p: depends what for. security has its own patches for stable. |
| 19:17 | jwagner_ | Brooke, submission can depend on client approval, so there might very well be many at once. |
| 19:18 | hdl | And chris_n would be able to ask for someone for signoff |
| 19:18 | chris_n | paul_p: once things diverge to that point, the submitter will be responsible to ensure that the patch merges |
| 19:18 | thd | hdl: We actually did that at one time in general. |
| 19:18 | chris_n | before submitting for 3.2.x |
| 19:18 | * Brooke | is having trouble understanding why clients are easier to talk to than Release Managers |
| 19:18 | chris_n | but that is really always the case |
| 19:18 | chris | there should never ever ever ever ever bet x00 patches at once again |
| 19:19 | * chris | is back at his computer |
| 19:19 | hdl | ( Brooke becaus managers will be managers ;à) ) |
| 19:19 | jwagner_ | chris_n, can you clarify the process? Patches for 3.2.x also go into the line for 3.4? |
| 19:19 | thd | paul_p: You were release maintainer when patches were being submitted to the current branch in addition to HEAD/master. |
| 19:19 | chris | so now i can get asked 50 questions at once nd have a chance to respond |
| 19:19 | * jwagner_ | is getting confused |
| 19:19 | chris | jwagner_: patches should be submitted on master |
| 19:19 | if a bug exists in 3.2.x it exists in master | |
| 19:20 | slef | I doubt clients would want to break community development. |
| 19:20 | paul_p | thd, we used CVS when I was RMaint, that's much different (and we had not so many contributors as we have today) |
| 19:20 | chris | and then pulled back to 3.2.x |
| 19:20 | gmcharlt | moving on - if people have a problem with chris_n's proposed management of 3.2.x, let's take it to the mailing lists |
| 19:20 | we have a bunch of other big topics on the agenda | |
| 19:20 | next item | |
| 19:20 | Restarting the Koha copyright license upgrade ballot process for Koha 3.4 previously postponed from the Koha Copyright License Upgrade Ballot IRC Meeting - 13 July 2010. | |
| 19:20 | paul_p | gmcharlt, (I don't have a problem, I just want to understand) |
| 19:21 | chris_n | paul_p: I'll make a post to the list later |
| 19:21 | gmcharlt | thd: I assume you add this one, so the floor is yours |
| 19:21 | paul_p | (and still not convinced, but I'll live with it, no problem) |
| 19:21 | thd | During KohaCon I added content to the wiki to restart the license upgrade ballot process after KohaCon |
| 19:21 | chris_n | paul_p: then we can have all of the discussion necessary :) |
| 19:22 | thd | I actually made some improvements to the wiki to make the information easier to find. |
| 19:23 | The content is all linked from http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]copyright_license | |
| 19:23 | slef | ok, I'll look by weekend |
| 19:23 | thd | Most importantly I summarised the special ballot IRC meeting. |
| 19:24 | davi | looking |
| 19:24 | thd | I am sorry that my broken computer, and infection which will not leave me created a delay. |
| 19:24 | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ng_-_13_July_2010 | |
| 19:24 | wizzyrea | thd: I am sorry that you had those problems at all :( |
| 19:24 | marlened left #koha | |
| 19:24 | gmcharlt | regarding the ballot |
| 19:25 | I propose that we put out a call to review the material that thd and others have put together | |
| 19:25 | davi | I will add content to the http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]oha_AGPL_3_option one, as promised when I have time |
| 19:25 | gmcharlt | and dedicate a portion of the next general IRC meeting to decide the logics of if, when, and how to hold the vote |
| 19:25 | davi | if somebody came first I will just review and improve it if possible |
| 19:25 | jwagner_ | To clarify, the page shows three licenses. There were others being considered, as I recall (LGPL and Apache) -- should they be added to this page? |
| 19:25 | thd | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:26 | Brooke left #koha | |
| 19:26 | gmcharlt | jwagner_: I don't recall LGPL and Apache being discussed, but if you want to advocate for them, I think that would be in bounds; I do suggest doing so before the meeting next month |
| 19:26 | thd | I would have done more in advance but I have been researching Z39.50 options. |
| 19:26 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 19:27 | jwagner_ | OK, we will add those and some others for consideration. |
| 19:27 | thd | ... and catching up on KohaCon |
| 19:27 | davi | jwagner, I think only options were: 1) as now, 2) GPLv+ 3) AGPLv3+ |
| 19:27 | robinHome | LGPL would be a wierd one for a web app. |
| 19:27 | davi | s/GPLv+/GPLv3+/ |
| 19:27 | LGPL -- | |
| 19:28 | slef | robinHome: would it gain *anything* at all? |
| 19:28 | thd | jwagner: we can discuss anything but neither LGPL nor Apache are permissible upgrades from GPL 2, invoked with the or later version option |
| 19:28 | gmcharlt | ok, I think we've exhausted this one (discussion of licenses can go on wiki and list) |
| 19:28 | robinHome | slef: I don't think it would. It would effectively be GPLv2, but with unused bits added. |
| 19:28 | gmcharlt | moving onward, four items left |
| 19:29 | I'm going to pick the easiest one first to start: | |
| 19:29 | jqueryui adoption instead of YUI | |
| 19:29 | slef | sounds ok to me... implications? |
| 19:29 | gmcharlt | this is a proposal from paul_p (?) to replace use of YUI with jQuery/UI |
| 19:29 | paul_p | not sure it's the easiest one, but it will be the less hard-discuted one ;-) |
| 19:29 | slef | can it be done at tt-switchover time? |
| 19:30 | paul_p | gmcharlt, yep, I suggested that. But have no specific plan. Just wondering |
| 19:30 | I feel it's a good idea. | |
| 19:30 | gmcharlt | from my point of view, does have advantages, primarily because it would simplify things |
| 19:30 | wizzyrea | owen, do you have a feeling about abandoning YUI |
| 19:30 | gmcharlt | and I think jQuery/UI is up to the task |
| 19:30 | robinHome | Yeah, I'm quite fond of the idea. |
| 19:30 | paul_p | BibLibre devs complains about having 2 differents toolkits |
| 19:30 | owen | I'm for abandoning YUI for everything bug the CSS grids layout |
| 19:30 | jwagner_ | I think jquery is the better path for the future |
| 19:30 | paul_p | owen, bug ? or but ? |
| 19:31 | gmcharlt | ok, so how about this: it is an open question whether a complete switchover could be done in 3.4 |
| 19:31 | owen | everything but the CSS grids layout |
| 19:31 | gmcharlt | so I suggest that we introduce jQuery/UI |
| 19:31 | and pick a particular widget to replace first | |
| 19:31 | paul_p | owen, why ? isn't there a css grid with jqueryui ? |
| 19:31 | robinHome | One thing (I think) worth looking at at the same time is making Koha work with current jquery. It's stuck on an old version at the moment. |
| 19:31 | owen | paul_p: No, because jQuery is all JavaScript, not CSS |
| 19:32 | I agree with gmcharlt on replacing particular widgets first | |
| 19:32 | gmcharlt | owen: any suggestions, off-hand, about what to try first? |
| 19:32 | hdl | could also be done with some performance improvements of javascript( putting javascript at teh end of pages for instanceà |
| 19:33 | owen | Well, we actually need to merge some non-UI jquery things to jUI as well, so I thought we'd start with tabs |
| 19:33 | gmcharlt | hdl: good idea, but also a different matter - orthogonal to jQuery/UI replacing YUI |
| 19:33 | owen | The jUI autocomplete widget is out of beta, so that might be something to start with |
| 19:33 | I think we might put off doing buttons/menus until the jUI menu widget comes out of beta | |
| 19:33 | hdl | (yes... But should this be done on the same branch ?) |
| 19:33 | gmcharlt | owen: autocomplete sounds perfect to start - only a few places use it |
| 19:34 | OK, moving on | |
| 19:34 | RFCs agreement workflow (discussion about the workflow for RFCs to be accepted/validated) | |
| 19:35 | chris | oh look theres that thing i said was on the agenda for later |
| 19:35 | paul_p | back to previous discussion ;-) |
| 19:36 | according to me there are 2 differents things : | |
| 19:36 | - is a code properly written => RM role, we all agree | |
| 19:36 | (I mean technically OK) | |
| 19:37 | - is the feature something we want into Koha => we must decide before it's written if yes or no | |
| 19:37 | because it's silly to invest a lot of time if the feature is not accepted at the end. Everybody will have pain with that | |
| 19:37 | Brooke | consensus before a write = less risk of a drop |
| 19:37 | jwagner_ | paul_p++ |
| 19:37 | Brooke | just do it is nice but you're gambling on inclusion |
| 19:38 | paul_p | Brooke, ok, but what/who/when do we make a consensus ? |
| 19:38 | LBA | paul_p++ |
| 19:38 | Brooke | here now or on the listserv |
| 19:38 | provided no response on rfc | |
| 19:38 | chris | deciding on a rfc |
| 19:38 | slef | rfc author usually leads consensus-building |
| 19:38 | but any supporter could | |
| 19:38 | chris | still will not result in the feature being guaranteed acceptance in a release |
| 19:39 | paul_p | but until now, rfc resulted in only few responses |
| 19:39 | chris | i dont know how i can say this any other way |
| 19:39 | YOU CANT HAVE GUARANTEES | |
| 19:39 | slef | paul_p: speak for your own rfcs! |
| 19:39 | paul_p | chris, I fully agree with that (guaranted acceptance in a release) |
| 19:39 | cait | so what guarantees do you expect? |
| 19:40 | paul_p | but we (community) should be able to say "yes it's a good feature" or "no, it's not a good feature". |
| 19:40 | slef | we can say that |
| 19:40 | paul_p | s/it's/it will/ |
| 19:40 | cait | I think if someone has a problem with an rfc he will speak up - I really like the proposed things for acq and serials |
| 19:40 | chris_n | well developed and promoted RFCs are a must; however, people participation is a must also |
| 19:40 | LBA | I don't think anyone expects a guarantee of inclusion in next release but a tentative yes or no is important |
| 19:40 | jwagner_ | Sponsors should be able to say if it's a good feature |
| 19:40 | thd | paul_p: There is a space between a guarantee and silence |
| 19:41 | rafael joined #koha | |
| 19:41 | LBA | yes thd, does silence mean "good idea!" or "yikes, no way" or "I'm too busy" |
| 19:41 | thd | cait++ |
| 19:41 | owen | jwagner_: Sponsors don't always have the project's best interests in mind |
| 19:41 | wizzyrea | What about a RFC roundup at the end of every release, to see what could possibly, given a delivery date of X before the next release, go in |
| 19:41 | chris_n | jwagner_: yes, but they are effectively members of the community as well and so are one voice of many |
| 19:41 | hdl | jwagner_: not only sponsors... But users. |
| 19:41 | LBA | wizzyrea++ |
| 19:41 | * chris_n | thinks people should comment on RFCs even if only to say "nice idea" |
| 19:41 | Brooke | so |
| 19:41 | uh | |
| 19:41 | jwagner_ | owen, developers may not either. |
| 19:41 | paul_p | owen, exactly !!! so = what is the project's best interest ? who decides what it is ? |
| 19:41 | chris | i think people should talk about rfc |
| 19:41 | thd | LBA: Silence is abstaining at least |
| 19:42 | * Brooke | gets out the bottle of gasoline |
| 19:42 | chris | not talk about taling about rfc |
| 19:42 | Brooke | where's the line between local customisation and a fork? |
| 19:42 | jwagner_ | paul_p -- ditto -- there has to be some way to decide as a group what's in the best interest |
| 19:42 | hdl | wizzyrea: to lave only once a release. |
| 19:42 | s/lave/late/ | |
| 19:42 | thd | LBA: However, there is a duty of developers and sponsors to promote discussion. |
| 19:42 | slef | LBA: you can't tell what non-response means except it wasn't enough to get a response. |
| 19:42 | rach joined #koha | |
| 19:42 | tajoli | I think that RFC only about "feature" you can say: I whant you opinion (on dev e general list) and if there aren't disagree, the answer is "the next version" |
| 19:42 | hdl | (too seldom in fact) |
| 19:43 | wizzyrea | well a dedicated week or month where RFC's that could concievably be delivered in time for the next release are discussed |
| 19:43 | tajoli | But for core change (like solr), we need a vote |
| 19:43 | wizzyrea | they can come out any time within the cycle |
| 19:43 | paul_p | tajoli, "in the next version" => not necessary. |
| 19:43 | hdl | slef: but it seems that it is quite often the case. |
| 19:43 | Brooke | hmmm |
| 19:43 | LBA | tajoli...really? |
| 19:43 | Brooke | sounds a bit like free code day |
| 19:43 | slef | hdl: not for me. |
| 19:43 | dpk | I think forms like this could be used to review RFCs that lack feedback. |
| 19:43 | hdl | how many RFC have you posted ? |
| 19:43 | gmcharlt | note that there are technical mechanisms to solve at least a couple of the social problems |
| 19:44 | the syspref mechanism being the obvious example | |
| 19:44 | hdl | how many response ? |
| 19:44 | slef | hdl: only 3 in 3.4 category so far I think. |
| 19:44 | hdl | gmcharlt: can you detail ? |
| 19:44 | sekjal | since there is no guarantee that any RFC will be part of any release, perhaps the RFC section of the wiki should be decoupled from any release number |
| 19:44 | gmcharlt | hdl: well, consider Zebra vs. NoZebra |
| 19:45 | two search engines, both (more or less) supported | |
| 19:45 | chris_n | what about using bugzilla's vote feature to help clarify community consensus on any given RFC? |
| 19:45 | cfouts | sekjal++ |
| 19:45 | slef | hdl: at least 1 so far to each. more promo/discussiomn needed, but it's up to me to get it. I'm not going to suggest others have some duty to care about our ideas. |
| 19:45 | paul_p | sekjal, that's what I did with RFC last week, but can probably still be improved |
| 19:45 | gmcharlt | hence some disagreement can be dealt with by accommodate paralel implementations of the same functionality |
| 19:45 | thd | tajoli: Core: changes can often be written to require less of a core change instead of either/or alternative. |
| 19:45 | slef | chris_n: using bugzilla's voting could be good. |
| 19:45 | hdl | sekjal: should contain a release number when planned. |
| 19:45 | tajoli | No, for me consenus is mandatory only on core change (like Solr) |
| 19:45 | chris_n | how hard is it to read and vote, folks? |
| 19:46 | slef | hdl: no, should be added to a release category. |
| 19:46 | paul_p | tajoli++ (consensus on core changes) |
| 19:46 | slef | chris_n: can we vote by mail? ;) |
| 19:46 | hdl | gmcharlt: this example is quite good. |
| 19:46 | thd | gmchalt++ |
| 19:46 | Brooke | thd ++ |
| 19:46 | chris_n | slef: anyway you like as long as it shows up in bugzilla ;-) |
| 19:46 | hdl | Since in the end it was proved that Nozebra could not provide users with the same features. |
| 19:46 | gmcharlt | and some things can be handled with well designed architecture |
| 19:47 | hdl | So NoZebra became unsupported. |
| 19:47 | paul_p | ...silently... |
| 19:47 | cfouts | which is fine |
| 19:47 | chris_n | ^^ what he said |
| 19:47 | gmcharlt | but ultimately ... that was fine |
| 19:47 | paul_p | that is a pain for users : no one has announced "NoZebra is no more supported", and it's not fair for users |
| 19:47 | slef | actually, if someone ported a list like bug 1234 5678 5692 then it would be easy to put that into bz's search box and step through and vote. |
| 19:47 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1234 enhancement, P2, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, Parameter: Bar Code # Prefix for book / patron searching |
| 19:47 | chris_n | only if the documentation is kept up |
| 19:47 | gmcharlt | if somebody really wanted to maintain NoZebra (or a pure-perl search engine, more generally), they could do so |
| 19:48 | slef | munin: shut it ratbag! |
| 19:48 | Brooke | we can scream bloody murder though Paul |
| 19:48 | munin | slef: Error: "shut" is not a valid command. |
| 19:48 | Brooke | like on say loosing RDA like features. |
| 19:48 | and in a worst case, we can hire someone to put em back | |
| 19:48 | * Brooke | believes in Zen programmes |
| 19:48 | slef | erm, this deserted station doesn't seem the safest place |
| 19:49 | gmcharlt | ok, in the interest of time ... moving on |
| 19:49 | next item is git management (branches) | |
| 19:49 | slef | someone is making odd noises... I'm going to move... biab |
| 19:49 | LBA | gmcharlt, is that it? I'm not clear on any consensus. can you summarize? |
| 19:49 | jransom | notes that the term'ratbag' appears to fallen into common usage .... :) |
| 19:49 | gmcharlt | not sure what this one is about; if its' about branches in the public repo, chris has laid out hte scheme he intends to use |
| 19:50 | thd | Brooke: Zen programmes? |
| 19:50 | gmcharlt | LBA: consensus? no, I don't think we've achieved it, but I am also pretty sure that that we could debate this for hours and not get there |
| 19:50 | cait | yep |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | which is why it is handy that there are multiple forums available to us, including the mailing lists |
| 19:51 | chris | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]=koha.git;a=heads you can see the branches in action here |
| 19:51 | http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]ranches_to_merge/ | |
| 19:51 | paul_p | gmcharlt, you're probably right. and it's too bad = means we decide nothing :\ |
| 19:51 | chris | and see what i am working on here |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | paul_p: perhaps not, but I think we have achieved a better understanding of the issues |
| 19:52 | chris | and what i did |
| 19:52 | http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]shed_10_November/ | |
| 19:52 | etc | |
| 19:52 | thd | paul_p: It will take time |
| 19:52 | chris | new/enh for new features |
| 19:52 | new/ for bugfixes | |
| 19:52 | cait | I think we can start doing things - like having bugs for rfc's - asking for feedback etc. |
| 19:52 | paul_p | gmcharlt, & thd ok |
| 19:52 | thd | paul_p: I am confident that we will sort the issue. |
| 19:52 | chris | new/awaiting_qa/ for ones that need qa then will move to one or the other |
| 19:52 | gmcharlt | and ultimately ... it's better to discuss and/or promote the actual RFCs than have a discussion about having those discussions that goes on without any clear end |
| 19:53 | chris | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:53 | paul_p | thd, I would like to be optimistic like you're ;-) |
| 19:53 | LBA | gmcharlt :-* |
| 19:53 | wizzyrea | gmcharlt++ |
| 19:53 | chris_n | paul_p: are there enh reqs in bugzilla for biblibre's latest RFCs? |
| 19:53 | paul_p | chris_n, yep |
| 19:53 | chris_n | cool |
| 19:53 | hdl | chris what about new/tested/bug/// new/tested/enh/... |
| 19:53 | chris | they are tested |
| 19:54 | if they dont have /awaiting_qa/ | |
| 19:54 | at least enough testing to be considered for master | |
| 19:54 | paul_p | chris_n, i've written a wiki template, that is very handful |
| 19:54 | for example : http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ports_serials_RFC | |
| 19:54 | cfouts | what is the purpose of distinguishing between bug and enhancement? |
| 19:54 | hdl | chris ok cool |
| 19:54 | chris | cfouts: it helps chris_n a lot |
| 19:55 | cfouts | gotcha |
| 19:55 | hdl | chris++ |
| 19:55 | chris | its easy to cherry-pick from those branches |
| 19:55 | hdl | helping chris_n++ |
| 19:55 | he could rebase --onto master... | |
| 19:55 | chris | yup |
| 19:55 | * hdl | loves branch management |
| 19:55 | chris | or he could merge new/bug_3421 |
| 19:55 | jransom | (gotta go folks - thanks all - bye) |
| 19:55 | * chris_n | too |
| 19:56 | chris | etc |
| 19:56 | gmcharlt | k, anything more to say about the branch structure? |
| 19:56 | chris | i gots a picture |
| 19:56 | jransom left #koha | |
| 19:56 | hdl | merging could make features get into stable |
| 19:56 | chris | http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz[…]-worth-of-merges/ |
| 19:56 | LBA | bug=responsibility of Release Maintainer? and enh=responsibility of Release Manager for next release (potentially)? |
| 19:56 | chris | hdl: yep he would have to be careful, cherry pick or rebase --onto |
| 19:57 | LBA: bugs have to be fixed for both release streams | |
| 19:57 | fixed for master, then ported back to 3.2.x is how we are doing it | |
| 19:57 | gmcharlt | hdl: with the QA process coming into place, and with hudson, HEAD will also be *more* stable |
| 19:57 | hdl | chris what ar those fortunes ? |
| 19:57 | LBA | okay, thanks for clarification. |
| 19:57 | slef | bbl |
| 19:57 | hdl | A bird in the hand makes it awfully hard to blow your nose. |
| 19:57 | chris | hdl: just random things to make list of patches more interesting |
| 19:58 | i did some haiku too | |
| 19:58 | http://koha-releasemanagement.[…]ushed_4_November/ | |
| 19:58 | gmcharlt | ok, now that chris is doing haiku, definitely time to move on in the agenda ;) |
| 19:58 | hdl | gmcharlt: + all the new tests.... to be written. |
| 19:58 | gmcharlt | the next non-routine item: |
| 19:59 | hdl: the beauty is that tests can be added incremental - write a new feature, write tests for it | |
| 19:59 | write a bugfix, write a regression test for it | |
| 19:59 | so the agenda item: | |
| 19:59 | proposal to form a Technical Committee + request this discussion be postponed due to short notice at a time when many Kohacon10 participants were travelling | |
| 19:59 | chris | yes, tests will win you lots of karma |
| 19:59 | gmcharlt | so we have an agenda item relating to a current discussion on the mailing lists |
| 19:59 | * chris_n | groans at the thought of trying to gain a consensus on two such items in one meeting |
| 20:00 | gmcharlt | and a request to postpone (presumably until the next general meeting) |
| 20:00 | thd | chris_n :) |
| 20:00 | gmcharlt | so ... getting the procedural bit out the way, I call a vote to postpone to the December meeting |
| 20:00 | * gmcharlt | abstains |
| 20:00 | LBA | ++ |
| 20:00 | hdl | -- |
| 20:00 | jwagner_ | -- |
| 20:00 | cfouts | -- |
| 20:00 | paul_p | -- |
| 20:01 | chris | ++ |
| 20:01 | thd | -- Discussion, if it is not deciding does no harm. |
| 20:01 | tajoli | -- |
| 20:01 | owen | ++ |
| 20:01 | hdl | ! (I want to explain my position) |
| 20:02 | cait | ++ |
| 20:02 | * jcamins | abstains - won't be able to stay for the discussion today, probably |
| 20:02 | * Brooke | is as silent as the average RFC respondant. |
| 20:02 | magnus | ++ |
| 20:02 | BobB | BobB abstains |
| 20:02 | davi | Is a Technical Committee actually needed? |
| 20:02 | * wizzyrea | abstains — I have time both now and later |
| 20:02 | Colin | abstains |
| 20:02 | davi | Is not voting at each decision enough? |
| 20:03 | paul_p | davi, that's what we have to discuss ;-) |
| 20:03 | davi | voting at each decision ++ |
| 20:03 | ack paul_p | |
| 20:03 | Technical Committee -- | |
| 20:03 | hdl | davi: when should decision be taken... and who should decide ? |
| 20:04 | Lee | abstains |
| 20:04 | gmcharlt | ok, I'm calling the vote - preponderance of people who have voted is to *not* postpone the discussion item |
| 20:04 | davi | Anyway people can delegate his vote if they want, and that would lend to a more valanced Technical Committee in a natural way on demand |
| 20:04 | voting at each decision ++ | |
| 20:04 | with vote delegation | |
| 20:04 | thd | gmcharlt: I like to move a question of not deciding the issue now. |
| 20:04 | davi | optional |
| 20:05 | paul_p | agreed not to decide now. just want to discuss of this. |
| 20:05 | gmcharlt | ok, there is a motion to not decide the issue now |
| 20:05 | davi | hdl, All the interested would show opinion in the decision taking process, as now |
| 20:05 | * chris_n | seconds |
| 20:05 | LBA | ++ not to decide anything today |
| 20:05 | thd | ++ |
| 20:06 | * dpk | ++ not decide now |
| 20:06 | magnus | ++ |
| 20:06 | davi | ++ not decide now |
| 20:06 | francharb left #koha | |
| 20:06 | Colin | ++ |
| 20:06 | paul_p | I have expressed my opinion widely on koha ML, I won't repeat. but if you want, I can ;-) |
| 20:06 | sekjal | ++ for not deciding |
| 20:06 | gmcharlt | ok, the direction of the vote is clear enough |
| 20:07 | hdl | ++ for not deciding but discuss. |
| 20:07 | tajoli | ++ |
| 20:07 | hdl | there is a reall need for clarity... |
| 20:07 | jwagner_ | We've had a lot of topics on the agenda today and been unable/unwilling to make decisions on many of them. I think that's a good reason in favor of having some kind of technical committee -- some group with responsibility to guide the future of the project. |
| 20:07 | * gmcharlt | submits that the technical committee already exists, and is to be found on koha-devel |
| 20:08 | Brooke | ++ galen |
| 20:08 | hdl | Both from users, libraries, and from developers as to making a successfull collaboration |
| 20:08 | thd | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:08 | magnus | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:08 | chris | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:08 | jwagner_ | gmcharlt, that is not any kind of structured decision-making forum |
| 20:08 | LBA | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:08 | hdl | gmcharlt-- |
| 20:08 | tajoli | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:08 | davi | jwagner, Technical Committee can fail at taking decision too, in the same way, and even worse; take the worn ones some time. |
| 20:08 | chris_n | jwagner_: how will a technical committee with no way to enforce its decisions help that problem? |
| 20:08 | owen | I think maybe what we really need is a more formal voting process to bring to questions which a technical committee might otherwise address |
| 20:08 | paul_p | gmcharlt, disagreeing |
| 20:08 | hdl | No decision is taken via email |
| 20:08 | LBA | I think was is missing is not a Technical Committee but some clarity about protocol...thus my incessant nagging |
| 20:08 | Brooke | if you're looking for vertical structure in an open source project, you will be disappointed routinely. |
| 20:08 | jwagner_ | It's a great mechanism for floating ideas and discussing possibilities. |
| 20:09 | hdl | Nothing clear |
| 20:09 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:09 | hdl | and some design options has to be coped with on a longer term. |
| 20:09 | cait | late... but I got distracted |
| 20:09 | thd | We could create a mechanism such as voting on bugs to have greater clarity. |
| 20:10 | wizzyrea | we have had that for a while |
| 20:10 | Lee | galen are libraries represented on the devel committee? |
| 20:10 | thd | However, when it comes to running verified code votes count for very little. |
| 20:10 | jwagner_ | I think there needs to be some one/group that takes responsibility to look beyond the current release and identify areas that need improvement, that need attention, and that people are willing to sponsor -- not for the next release but for the one, two, three releases after that. |
| 20:10 | paul_p | wizzyrea, maybe, but until now, it has been quite un-efficient :\ |
| 20:10 | Brooke | I agree on formalisation of protocol. That's the ratbag consultant contingent's responsibility |
| 20:10 | hdl | Brooke: vertical structure... maybe not... But collaboration. and work together.... I did hope so |
| 20:10 | wizzyrea | the real problem is convincing people to actually vote |
| 20:10 | gmcharlt | Lee: anybody who cares to express an opinion is represented |
| 20:11 | davi | owen, "more formal voting process", allowing to vote via any communication email, IRC, and so on, as the indivitual identity is verified |
| 20:11 | so who only read email will vote too | |
| 20:11 | paul_p | wizzyrea++ (convincing to vote) |
| 20:11 | jwagner_ | Right now, what's happening is that any vendor with development contracts is working independently with little coordination. |
| 20:11 | cfouts | I don't care what it's called, but Koha needs to have a vision of what's happening beyond the next release. |
| 20:11 | davi | or who only attend meetings can vote too |
| 20:11 | chris_n | wizzyrea++ |
| 20:11 | tajoli | jwagner++ |
| 20:11 | paul_p | jwagner_, any vendor, or any library employed ppl |
| 20:12 | jwagner_ | paul_p, correct |
| 20:12 | paul_p | (not sure my last sentence was correct english ;-) ) |
| 20:12 | owen | A technical committee can't enforce their "vision" because it all depends on who funds the development |
| 20:12 | cfouts | people who are looking at architectural issues and working to build consensus about how to contribute in the present with an eye toward the future |
| 20:12 | jwagner_ | owen, yes, but a group could steer and encourage development |
| 20:12 | chris_n | so what does such a committee benefit over what we have now? |
| 20:12 | LBA | vision beyond next release still doesn't get a developer what they might need for their client (but I'm okay with that in the spirit of staying flexible as new needs/technology arise). |
| 20:12 | cfouts | chris_n: attention |
| 20:12 | thd | cfouts: What about our existing forums is deficient for developing that vision? |
| 20:12 | owen | jwagner_: steer? Encourage, I suppose. |
| 20:12 | cfouts | they're too diffuse |
| 20:12 | chris_n | cfouts: post to the list and then bump, bump, bump |
| 20:12 | paul_p | owen, that's where I disagree : if I have a contract signed and a technical committee says "no", then i can go back to my customer & negociate/find a good solution |
| 20:13 | wizzyrea | for one: lots and lots of cooks. |
| 20:13 | cfouts | there's a wiki and mailing lists and irc and bugzilla and whatever. |
| 20:13 | owen | paul_p: What I mean is that a technical committee can't imagine a new feature and then expect someone to develop it |
| 20:13 | LBA | I think it isn't a problem with the venues for getting feedback and planning ahead, the problem is that there needs to be a guarantee of some kind of response. |
| 20:13 | paul_p | owen, agreed (I may have misunderstood you) |
| 20:14 | jwagner_ | owen, I think that would be part of a committee's job, actually |
| 20:14 | tajoli | No, but it does a valutation |
| 20:14 | davi | cfouts, count votes on all that medias |
| 20:14 | thd | wizzyrea: many cooks make a nice feast for everyone |
| 20:14 | Brooke | erm, I think it's more a problem of Taylorism v. Organic governance |
| 20:14 | dpk | Other projects have annual meetings (like KohaCon) these kind of strategy issues are dealt with face to face |
| 20:14 | wizzyrea | too many cooks spoil the soup :P |
| 20:14 | cfouts | davi: I don't have infinite time to look at all those venues |
| 20:14 | owen | jwagner_: How? You would have a committee instruct PTFS on what they should develop next? |
| 20:14 | davi | cfouts, formalise it |
| 20:14 | paul_p | but when a sponsored (major) dev arrive, a tech committee or something like that could be handy to help with our relations with the library. |
| 20:14 | Brooke | cfouts: each user his venue |
| 20:14 | chris_n | cfouts: that is why people need to start using wiki+BZ and vote |
| 20:14 | cfouts | davi: that's what we're talking about |
| 20:15 | hdl | owen: there are structural work that needs to be done. |
| 20:15 | paul_p | dpk++ |
| 20:15 | jwagner_ | We would certainly encourage our customers who are interested in sponsoring development to look at a committee's recommendations. |
| 20:15 | The customers decide what gets developed, not PTFS | |
| 20:15 | hdl | That could improve the work for everyone |
| 20:15 | chris_n | this is a basic people problem and no amount of committee-ing it will fix it |
| 20:15 | thd | wizzyrea: I know the adage but the adage applied to free software is that free software is bad |
| 20:15 | hdl | this should not be the task or the will of one company. |
| 20:15 | davi | chris_n, ++ |
| 20:15 | chris_n | jwagner_: encourage them to look at the RFC's on wiki |
| 20:15 | paul_p | chris_n, disagreeing partially |
| 20:16 | I don't want to add bureaucracy, I want to add reliability | |
| 20:16 | sekjal | fundamental problem: no one in the community can make anyone else do anything (except customers directing their vendors). we're all free to do as we please. hopefully, most of us choose to cooperate as best we can |
| 20:16 | chris_n | paul_p: and with no enforcement mechanism, how do these propositions help? |
| 20:16 | davi | paul_p, ++ |
| 20:16 | jwagner_ | sekjal, that's the problem -- HOW do we best cooperate? |
| 20:16 | Brooke | sekjal that's a feature, not a bug |
| 20:16 | paul_p | jwagner_++ |
| 20:16 | wizzyrea | that's not the point really (or certainly not what I meant). |
| 20:16 | chris_n | paul_p: we cannot *make* people do what we may think they should |
| 20:17 | davi | votes to the power |
| 20:17 | slef | back, reading |
| 20:17 | cfouts | who is proposing to make anyone do anything, here? |
| 20:17 | paul_p | chris_n, whan the linux kernel decide to add a new platform, there is someone that decides this strategic decision isn't it ? |
| 20:17 | tajoli | I think that to cooperate at best we need to do evaluation on what is Koha |
| 20:17 | gmcharlt | paul_p: nope |
| 20:17 | chris_n | so unless the "committee" has the authority to say " we do this", it is little better than another voice in the crowd |
| 20:17 | thd | paul_p: Reliability as such may not be available but you could have much additional confidence which is less than reliability. |
| 20:17 | chris | paul_p: no there isnt |
| 20:17 | gmcharlt | paul_p: what happens is that somebody starts hacking together support for a new platform |
| 20:17 | gets it working | |
| 20:18 | and submits it up the chain | |
| 20:18 | tajoli | Is softeware for library with few reasoures or not ? |
| 20:18 | chris | and if it flies, it flies |
| 20:18 | hdl | chris_n: we could work on building little workgroups and build concensus |
| 20:18 | gmcharlt | obviously it's in their intrest to communicate well during the process |
| 20:18 | hdl | in that group |
| 20:18 | davi | hdl ++ |
| 20:18 | hdl | for the purpose of the group. |
| 20:18 | And then... step by step enlarge. | |
| 20:18 | thd | hdl++ |
| 20:18 | chris_n | communication is one of the core problems here as well |
| 20:18 | hdl | But there are structural needs. |
| 20:18 | davi | hdl++ |
| 20:18 | paul_p | chris_n, agreed |
| 20:19 | wizzyrea | certainly if someone said "hey, i have an idea and I want a few folks to help me work it out" would people volunteer? |
| 20:19 | davi | nobody is forced to volunter |
| 20:19 | cfouts | example: the transition to using an ORM is a platform change that no one entity is going to do or pay for |
| 20:19 | jwagner_ | wizzyrea, I think yes, if there was a defined process for doing so |
| 20:19 | tajoli | sometime yes, often no |
| 20:19 | chris_n | but again, we can only encourage communication, not enforce it |
| 20:19 | jwagner_ | But right now there are a _lot_ of defined ways, and people get confused |
| 20:19 | thd | hdl: I think the problem is the degree of formalism. |
| 20:19 | Brooke | chris_n go look at Brook's law. This is growing pains. |
| 20:19 | paul_p | cfouts++ |
| 20:19 | cfouts | it's something that needs a long-term vision, backed by research, and a plan developed as to how it could be implemented |
| 20:20 | hdl | cfouts: but everyone agrees it is needed. |
| 20:20 | chris | i dont |
| 20:20 | jwagner_ | cfouts++ |
| 20:20 | hdl | + db structure redesing |
| 20:20 | (or at least work) | |
| 20:20 | paul_p | chris, can you explain more ? |
| 20:20 | davi | cfouts, no, just do it, and improve it |
| 20:20 | Brooke | so speaking of long range vision, I've 23ish responses to my 3 word summaries of Koha >.> <.< |
| 20:20 | hdl | davi HUGE work. |
| 20:21 | davi | well, or do it or do not talk about it |
| 20:21 | cfouts | davi, I don't think you realize the scale of this |
| 20:21 | dpk | Sounds like a two-year plan for Koha development should be a major goal of the next KohaCon - with people prepping ahead of time. |
| 20:21 | thd | hdl: We could go further than what we do at present without going so far we have a model which is not a free software model |
| 20:21 | paul_p | chris, (we know you disagree with this idea. But i prefer hard discussion to seeing you staying silent) |
| 20:21 | davi | talking and not doing does not help as much |
| 20:21 | jwagner_ | dpk, I don't think this can wait another year. There's too much in the pipeline now. |
| 20:21 | thd | cfouts++ |
| 20:22 | wizzyrea | so, as a reference point, how was the switch to zebra decided? |
| 20:22 | paul_p | cfouts++ |
| 20:22 | * chris_n | has seen little discussion on the mailing list concerning either ORM or db restructuring |
| 20:22 | paul_p | wizzyrea, joshua proposed it, with some (few) benchmarks comparing with lucene, and it has been decided. |
| 20:22 | chris | no it wasnt decided then |
| 20:22 | chris_n | if it is so important, why are is it not being promoted in available forums? |
| 20:22 | cfouts | which is why koha-devel does not strike me as an effective forum for that kind of planning |
| 20:22 | chris | we did a lot more testing |
| 20:23 | and tumer did a lot of testing | |
| 20:23 | jwagner_ | I've seen discussion on the mailing list about database restructuring. |
| 20:23 | chris | and it still wasnt totally decided until the hackfest |
| 20:23 | dpk | jwagner_, fair enough. |
| 20:23 | paul_p | (yep, wanted to add we worked on this during the 1st KohaCon) |
| 20:23 | chris_n | jwager_: examples? |
| 20:24 | jwagner_ | chris_n, examples of what? listserv discussion? Can't give you specifics right now, but I definitely remember a lot of traffic recently about MySQL, Postgres, etc. |
| 20:24 | chris | thats database abstraction, thats a whole different thing |
| 20:24 | to restructuring | |
| 20:24 | chris_n | ahh... db agnosticism is not what I call restructuring, sorry |
| 20:24 | chris | but yeah we are getting off topic |
| 20:24 | chris_n | <snap> |
| 20:25 | chris | i think meetings like this, we a more defined agenda |
| 20:25 | hdl | ??? |
| 20:25 | chris | are a good place to discuss things like ORM |
| 20:25 | with discussion summarised to the wiki and koha-devel | |
| 20:25 | jwagner_ | I suggest a special meeting with this as the main/sole agenda item |
| 20:26 | chris | i suggest we just have meetings on technical decisions |
| 20:26 | cait | chris++ |
| 20:26 | paul_p | chris++ |
| 20:26 | chris | instead of a meeting about having meetings on techincal decisions |
| 20:26 | chris_n | chris++ |
| 20:26 | Colin | chris++ |
| 20:26 | wizzyrea | interested parties can attend, and there's your committee |
| 20:26 | Brooke | <3 chris |
| 20:26 | hdl | chris++ |
| 20:26 | cait | chris+100 |
| 20:26 | chris_n | ie. a meeting to discuss ORM, etc |
| 20:26 | chris | BAM |
| 20:26 | soleve | |
| 20:26 | solved | |
| 20:26 | lets all go have a drink now | |
| 20:26 | slef | wizzyrea: no, no committees. |
| 20:26 | Brooke | right |
| 20:26 | cfouts | not sure how that's any different than what is proposed |
| 20:26 | * Brooke | heads straight for the pub. |
| 20:27 | thd | chris++ |
| 20:27 | magnus | chris++ |
| 20:27 | jwagner_ | Question: who decides we need to have a meeting on ORM, etc.? And does background work to provide info? |
| 20:27 | hdl | chris as soon as there is open space for discussion and collaboration fine... |
| 20:27 | cait | the person proposing it |
| 20:27 | chris_n | jwager_: anyone can propose it and schedule a time I think |
| 20:27 | slef | ...who decides who decides we need to have a meeting about a meeting... |
| 20:27 | chris | jwagner_: any one can call a meeting |
| 20:27 | trea | consensus decides |
| 20:27 | chris | if no one turns up |
| 20:28 | well, theres your answer | |
| 20:28 | slef | Why is this being complicated? |
| 20:28 | thd | jwagmer_: Those with an interest do the work. |
| 20:28 | chris | so its up to the organiser to promote their meeting/topic |
| 20:28 | thd | oops jwagner |
| 20:28 | hdl | slef: because it seems that whenever a proposition is done, ppl are suspicious. |
| 20:29 | chris_n | so why doesn't someone who feels the urgency of a move to ORM do a writeup to the list and propose a meeting time? |
| 20:29 | same for DB restructuring | |
| 20:29 | etc, etc, etc | |
| 20:29 | hdl | solr |
| 20:29 | dpk | It sounds like there is a real need for some more long term planning, but finding the right venue is going to be the challenge. |
| 20:29 | chris_n | ^^ |
| 20:29 | cait | so propose a meeting time |
| 20:29 | Brooke | dpk: just do eet. Join us ratbag consultants. |
| 20:29 | slef | hdl: no, not suspicion, solr looks like a bad idea to me at the moment. |
| 20:29 | cait | I think we should talk about long term things at the irc meetings too - and have proposals etc. on the wiki - what is stopping us from that? |
| 20:30 | chris_n | exactly |
| 20:30 | cfouts | I think what's potentially missing is the same thing that people are complaining about being missing from the RFC process: no comment. |
| 20:30 | cait | why invent something new? |
| 20:30 | Brooke | naught |
| 20:30 | sekjal | hdl: I'd like to discuss solr and learn more about what it may mean for us. I'd happily attend a meeting |
| 20:30 | chris | cait++ |
| 20:30 | thd | cfouts has raised an important issue of not having the workload and costs fall too heavily on any one support company for major issues which benefit everyone but are not the core problems of any sponsor in particular. |
| 20:30 | jwagner_ | solr is definitely a good idea that needs discussion soon |
| 20:30 | hdl | you donot have enoug problem with zebra. |
| 20:30 | Brooke | I'm sticking stuff on the listserv for comment |
| 20:30 | and folks are responding | |
| 20:30 | paul_p | hdl++ |
| 20:30 | chris_n | nothing stops anyone from putting "long term" items on the agenda |
| 20:30 | paul_p | zebra-- |
| 20:30 | zebra-- | |
| 20:30 | zebra-- | |
| 20:30 | zebra-- | |
| 20:30 | zebra-- | |
| 20:30 | zebra-- | |
| 20:30 | Brooke | then I'm sticking the responses on the wiki |
| 20:30 | chris_n | poor zebra ;) |
| 20:30 | chris | regression_in_the_name_of_progress-- |
| 20:30 | chris_n | @karma zebra |
| 20:30 | munin | chris_n: Karma for "zebra" has been increased 3 times and decreased 9 times for a total karma of -6. |
| 20:30 | slef | zebra++ |
| 20:30 | paul_p | really tired to have problems with diacritics. lucky english-natives ! |
| 20:30 | you can't imagine our pains... | |
| 20:31 | really | |
| 20:31 | chris | i can |
| 20:31 | we speak maori here | |
| 20:31 | and have macrons | |
| 20:31 | hdl | sekjal: we shall do some in the near future. |
| 20:31 | paul_p | chris, and you have a koha/zebra/maori ? congrats ! |
| 20:31 | slef | Huh, I've a catalogue with non-latin items, not reporting problems, but it's not that big and I think they transliterated everything for the old systems. |
| 20:31 | paul_p | just for everybody information : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macron |
| 20:31 | chris_n | paul_p: I'd like to see biblibre do a writeup to the list and propose a meeting to discuss solr |
| 20:32 | chris | id happily see c4::search and c4::search::zebra and c4::search::solr and c4::search::nutch |
| 20:32 | hdl | sekjal: expect a meeting on that and a post on kohadeve... |
| 20:32 | chris_n | lets see if we can make the present venues work |
| 20:32 | sekjal | hdl: great! |
| 20:32 | hdl | Data::SearchEngine is there. |
| 20:32 | thd | Zebra together with Solr/Lucene until no regression. |
| 20:32 | cait | it seems to work with hebrew too - no complaints so far |
| 20:32 | chris | thd++ |
| 20:32 | gmcharlt | ok, dragging back to the agenda |
| 20:32 | slef | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:32 | cait | although I really liked what I saw in biblibre's poc - I think it should be discussed |
| 20:32 | gmcharlt | we have a nascent proposal for a technical discussion meeting, most likely on the topic of Solr |
| 20:32 | paul_p | except we will loose many great things solr has (but that's another discussion, I agree) |
| 20:33 | gmcharlt | and others who want to call such meetings are free to do so |
| 20:33 | specifics regarding timing should be discussed on the mailing lists | |
| 20:33 | slef | I've been seeing a thread about solr gone away on vufind list, but I've not read the posts yet. |
| 20:33 | gmcharlt | any action items from http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]g,_6_October_2010 to discuss? |
| 20:34 | hearing none | |
| 20:34 | Brooke | I move to recess |
| 20:34 | gmcharlt | on to setting the date and time for the next genearl meeting |
| 20:34 | * gmcharlt | tosses out 8 November 2010 |
| 20:34 | Brooke | December? |
| 20:34 | chris_n | +1 |
| 20:35 | for Nov | |
| 20:35 | Brooke | else I'd need a time machine. |
| 20:35 | gmcharlt | rather, 8 December 2010, as I haven't completed my time machine either |
| 20:35 | wizzyrea | +1 for december |
| 20:35 | chris_n | opps |
| 20:35 | chris | yeah |
| 20:35 | chris_n | hehe |
| 20:35 | slef | looks good to me, assuming December |
| 20:35 | I had a time machine. | |
| 20:35 | I broke it next year. | |
| 20:35 | thd | +1 8 December |
| 20:35 | gmcharlt | slef++ |
| 20:35 | * chris_n | goes back to work on C4::TimeMachine |
| 20:35 | owen | 8 December +1 |
| 20:35 | dpk | LGTM |
| 20:36 | sekjal | 08 Dec 2010 ++ |
| 20:36 | Colin | ++ |
| 20:36 | paul_p | works for me too |
| 20:36 | tajoli | 8 Dec -- |
| 20:36 | Lee | +1 |
| 20:36 | paul_p | (would prefer dev 1st, though) |
| 20:36 | (would prefer dec 1st, though) | |
| 20:36 | cait | ++ |
| 20:36 | magnus | +1 |
| 20:36 | jwagner_ | Either the 1st or 8th is fine |
| 20:36 | gmcharlt | ok, majority is for 8 December |
| 20:37 | anbody care to propose the time of day? | |
| 20:37 | slef | I thought 1st Dec was some important date, but it's not marked in my calendar :-/ |
| 20:37 | chris | paul_p: this is for the general meeting |
| 20:37 | Brooke | I say inconvenience the yanks, since we inconvenienced the kiwis |
| 20:37 | chris | you should call one for solr sooner if you want |
| 20:37 | paul_p | chris, yep, I had understood. and that's what we will do, definetly ! |
| 20:38 | sekjal | rotate time 8 hours one direction or another? |
| 20:38 | gmcharlt | ok, how about 10:00 UTC+0 ? |
| 20:38 | dpk | Yeah! |
| 20:38 | thd | what date gmcharlt? |
| 20:38 | chris_n | +1 |
| 20:39 | gmcharlt | thd: 8 December |
| 20:39 | thd | +1 |
| 20:39 | jcamins is now known as jcamins_a | |
| 20:39 | cait | +1 |
| 20:39 | sekjal | +1 |
| 20:39 | paul_p | yikes ! |
| 20:39 | means 11PM for us ! | |
| 20:39 | slef | Brooke: when are you going to do something with those 3-worders? |
| 20:40 | Brooke | they will be compiled by Friday |
| 20:40 | then the underpants gnoams will work on it | |
| 20:40 | gmcharlt | paul_p: no, I'm pretty sure that means 11:00 a.m. for you |
| 20:40 | chris_n | paul_p: ? |
| 20:40 | Brooke | and I should have summat general by Friday next |
| 20:40 | paul_p | oups, right, sorry |
| 20:40 | so, really perfect for europe (but not for kiwis) | |
| 20:40 | chris | 11pm for us |
| 20:40 | Brooke | a preliminary cloud is on the wiki in limbo, but I didn't want to link it until it's finalised on friday |
| 20:40 | BobB left #koha | |
| 20:40 | chris | thats better than the morning |
| 20:41 | paul_p | chris, are you OK with this timing ? |
| 20:41 | slef | Brooke: cool. |
| 20:41 | chris | yes |
| 20:41 | gmcharlt | ok, the next meeting is set for 10:00 UTC+0 on Wednesday, 8 December 2010 |
| 20:41 | jwagner_ | Yeah, we get the early morning time slot this time :-( |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | no frowns. |
| 20:41 | cait | what about 10pm for kiwi and europe? too late too early for us? |
| 20:41 | jwagner_ | cait, I know |
| 20:41 | * chris_n | will get to drink extra coffee :-) |
| 20:41 | gmcharlt | cait: that cuts out the Indians |
| 20:41 | cait | ah |
| 20:41 | * paul_p | has suggested to move NZ to atlantic ocean, but seems even UN can't do that |
| 20:41 | thd | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:42 | Brooke | paul ++ |
| 20:42 | clearly they belong in the Carribean. | |
| 20:42 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 20:42 | * jwagner_ | suggests moving all of us to NZ instead :-) |
| 20:42 | cait | us = usa |
| 20:42 | Lee | :) |
| 20:42 | * gmcharlt | declares the meeting adjourned |
| 20:42 | jwagner_ | no us = everyone! |
| 20:42 | Elwell | if only they'd anchor NZ somewhere closer to europe :-) |
| 20:42 | thd | cait: South Asian participation is important. |
| 20:42 | Colin left #koha | |
| 20:42 | cait | yeah, I know I was unclear with my question |
| 20:43 | dpk left #koha | |
| 20:43 | * chris_n | will start looking for lists posts and meeting times for the aforementioned devel items |
| 20:43 | cait | thd: yep, valid point - it was just a question |
| 20:43 | time zones confuse me | |
| 20:43 | pauln left #koha | |
| 20:43 | cait | :) |
| 20:43 | jwagner_ | especially with jet lag |
| 20:43 | slef | me too, when I'm sliding through 13 of them :-/ |
| 20:43 | Lee left #koha | |
| 20:43 | sekjal | meeting will be 2-5am for most of the continental USA |
| 20:43 | earlier for Alaska and Hawaii | |
| 20:44 | hdl | jwagner overcrowding NZ. |
| 20:44 | anitsirk left #koha | |
| 20:44 | Brooke | toughen up! |
| 20:44 | hdl | hehe |
| 20:44 | tajoli | bye |
| 20:44 | thd | If 2AM, stay up late. :) |
| 20:44 | tajoli left #koha | |
| 20:44 | * sekjal | has plenty of coffee on supply |
| 20:44 | collum left #koha | |
| 20:45 | jwagner_ left #koha | |
| 20:45 | paul_p | ok, bye everybody, and see you tomorrow or later. Oups, not tomorrow, because it's closed in France ;-) |
| 20:45 | slef | another strike? |
| 20:45 | BobB left #koha | |
| 20:45 | paul_p | slef, holiday |
| 20:45 | (end of WW1) | |
| 20:45 | slef | ah, a legal strike |
| 20:45 | paul_p | lol |
| 20:45 | slef | we get 2 minutes for that |
| 20:45 | owen | Veterans Day in the US |
| 20:46 | rafael left #koha | |
| 20:46 | thd | hdl: Would you give some details of ICU bugs? |
| 20:47 | hdl | no left truncation |
| 20:47 | no completenes | |
| 20:47 | Elwell | paul_p: are the autoroutes traditionally busy with people making it a long weekend (faire le pont) |
| 20:47 | hdl | no zebra facets. |
| 20:47 | Do you need more ? | |
| 20:47 | thd | hdl: What triggers them? |
| 20:47 | clrh | Bye bye too, see you soon and thanks for the meeting. |
| 20:47 | paul_p | Elwell, on nov 11th, no. It's more on nov,1st |
| 20:47 | hdl | icu usage. |
| 20:48 | (well for facets... it is even the cas with charmap) | |
| 20:48 | thd | hdl: All ICU usage? |
| 20:48 | clrh left #koha | |
| 20:48 | hdl | at least my icu_chain.xml |
| 20:48 | Brooke | right no more Koha stuff today. |
| 20:48 | cheers lads./ | |
| 20:48 | Brooke left #koha | |
| 20:49 | hdl | but the problem is that support for icu.xml in zebra is rather.... poor |
| 20:49 | to say the less | |
| 20:49 | thd | hdl: I had presumed that the issue was for some set of characters within ICU. |
| 20:49 | hdl | No... All of them |
| 20:49 | for instance | |
| 20:49 | *stoire brings nothing | |
| 20:50 | paul_p | thd, my main complaint against zebra/icu is that it dies without saying anything worth when there is an invalid utf8 char or diacritic in the biblio |
| 20:50 | hdl | and if you search for complete subfield... you will do a search on word. |
| 20:51 | chris | im sure there are bugs in zebra |
| 20:51 | slef | paul_p: koha also dies with a confused error when there is invalid utf8 in a biblio, at least in 3.0 in some situations. :-/ |
| 20:51 | hdl | a... position in field is also deprecated. |
| 20:51 | paul_p | thd, for Aix-Marseille universities, 700k biblios, we had 14 that were invalid, and needed more than 3 days just to reindex : because Koha can display them, so they seemed OK |
| 20:51 | chris | i just dont think solr is a drop in replacement, until it can do sru/sw and z3950 etc |
| 20:51 | hdl | slef: because of MARC::File::XML |
| 20:51 | thd | hdl: For Z39.50/SRU server purposes as opposed to local indexing do you not have confidence that Index Data would find a fix with an appropriate inducement? |
| 20:52 | slef | hdl: sometimes. |
| 20:52 | test joined #koha | |
| 20:52 | hdl | appropriate inducement ??? |
| 20:52 | are you kidding ? | |
| 20:53 | test left #koha | |
| 20:53 | hdl | have you ever aksed for a quote ? |
| 20:53 | thd | hdl: Yes, in fact. |
| 20:54 | chris | right, if its the solr zebra battle, im outta here, ill participate in the meeting when its called but its now 10am and i have to do some work |
| 20:54 | hdl | Do you want to invest money in a dying sofrware ? |
| 20:54 | slef | zebra is dying??? |
| 20:54 | Have indexdata announced end-of-life? | |
| 20:54 | hdl | zebra3 will be based on solr |
| 20:54 | thd | hdl: I think that part of the problem is having one company pay for a shared benefit. |
| 20:54 | paul_p | chris++ and i've to do some sleep ;-) |
| 20:54 | magnus | good night, #koha |
| 20:54 | hdl | thd: not only. |
| 20:55 | magnus left #koha | |
| 20:55 | hdl | We considered paying seriously. |
| 20:55 | thd | hdl: Index Data is not yet committed to upgrading Zebra for Solr/Lucene. |
| 20:55 | hdl | But the fee and contract seemed quite high. |
| 20:55 | thd | hdl: Zebra has been neglected certainly. |
| 20:56 | hdl | for each bug |
| 20:56 | thd | hdl: That maybe which is why costs should be distributed. |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | http://www.indexdata.com/blog/[…]ar2-and-masterkey |
| 20:57 | thd | hdl: I am not advocating holding on to very buggy software at all costs. |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | hmm |
| 20:57 | paul_p | + there are other issues that we can/should consider as bugs : like having config files so complex & hard to change. |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | 9/17, so pretty recent |
| 20:57 | hdl | and hardcoded |
| 20:57 | owen left #koha | |
| 20:57 | thd | wizzyrea: Zebra is absent from their public commitments. |
| 20:57 | hdl | wizzyrea: yes. |
| 20:57 | paul_p | what we are doing with solr is having all indexes defined by the librarians, in Koha itself ! |
| 20:57 | thd | hdl: What is hardcoded? |
| 20:58 | chris | paul_p: no one is saying solr is bad |
| 20:58 | hdl | zebra configuration |
| 20:58 | chris | BUT DONT REGRESS US! |
| 20:58 | im quite yelly today | |
| 20:58 | paul_p | ;-) |
| 20:58 | * wizzyrea | pats chris |
| 20:58 | thd | paul_p: I have not said how great that is on the mailing list yet. |
| 20:58 | chris | but i feel like things are very simple but people are commited to making them hard |
| 20:58 | hdl | you told you would go to work... |
| 20:58 | paul_p | we fully agree with z3950 issue |
| 20:58 | chris | new featurs = good |
| 20:58 | regressions = bad | |
| 20:58 | thd | paul_p: Empowering ordinary users is great. |
| 20:59 | chris | new feature + regressions = still bad |
| 20:59 | hdl | new features + bug fixes + regression ? |
| 20:59 | paul_p | ok, definetly = I go to bed & chris, go to work ;-) (& hdl go to bed too I suggest. thd, you do what you want ;-) ) |
| 20:59 | chris | still bad |
| 20:59 | hdl | facets are broken. |
| 21:00 | thd | paul_p, hdl : I have been researching JZKit thoroughly. |
| 21:00 | hdl | indexing is really.... kind of broken too. |
| 21:00 | paul_p | hdl: stop & head to your bed. we will organize another meeting on IRC for that. and I think we will agree. That's not what I fear the most ! |
| 21:00 | chris | i still think the dual path is the way to go, and we deprecate zebra when solr provides everything it does and more |
| 21:01 | hdl | And z3950 searching is not open on standard configuraiton |
| 21:01 | thd | paul_p: What do you fear the most? |
| 21:01 | gmcharlt | agreed - non-ICU zebra, although more tedious to config, is not subject to the same sorts of problems that you are running into |
| 21:01 | thd | hdl: Not open? |
| 21:02 | paul_p | thd, forgetting to look at my saviour. But that's not related to Koha ;-) |
| 21:02 | hdl | it is in socket |
| 21:02 | wizzyrea | I think he means available |
| 21:02 | or not | |
| 21:02 | hdl | not on tcp |
| 21:03 | thd | hdl: Is that not standard for Z39.50 servers in some manner? |
| 21:03 | * hdl | don't know |
| 21:03 | hdl | thd: have you been playing with JZKit ? |
| 21:04 | thd | hdl: I have learnt more from studying the JZKit source code than from answers from Knowledge Integration. |
| 21:04 | hdl: I do not know how to set it up because there is no documentation. | |
| 21:04 | hdl: Creating documentation will cost money. | |
| 21:05 | hdl: There is also some work to be done on the code perhaps. | |
| 21:06 | hdl: I am still waiting for further response from Knowledge Integration. | |
| 21:06 | jwagner left #koha | |
| 21:06 | hdl | We did set one instance running |
| 21:06 | thd | hdl: Initially when using the Knowledge Integration web form to ask about documentation I had no response. |
| 21:07 | hdl: Where? | |
| 21:07 | hdl | solr.biblibre.com iirc. But maybe it was actually on a local machine. |
| 21:08 | I saw that. | |
| 21:08 | thd | hdl: Did you note the dependency on CQL-Java from Index Data? |
| 21:09 | hdl | I have not dived into the code actually. |
| 21:09 | But it would look quite a sensible dependency... | |
| 21:09 | thd | hdl: It is all one circular path in the small world of free software library code. |
| 21:09 | hdl | And I think that Indexdata will maintain that. |
| 21:10 | (better than zebra hopefully) | |
| 21:10 | thd | hdl: It is newer. |
| 21:11 | Index Data recommend JZKit for Java, however, JZKit is missing many features for good Z39.50/SRU. | |
| 21:11 | hdl | namely ? |
| 21:11 | robinHome left #koha | |
| 21:11 | thd | I have not had a direct answer about some questions yet from Knowledge Integration. |
| 21:12 | munin | New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]5139f844870234ccc> |
| 21:12 | thd | hdl: I should not discuss prematurely which is why I have not written more completely on the list but I will state what I have not yet found. |
| 21:14 | hdl: I have not yet identified support for @or @not or any non Bib-1 non-use attributes such as phrase searching which is a type 2 attribute. | |
| 21:15 | hudsonbot | Starting build 136 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 21:15 | hdl | looking forward to your hints. |
| 21:16 | chris_n | !hudson botsnack cookie |
| 21:16 | hudsonbot | chris_n: yummy! I really like that cookie |
| 21:16 | thd | hdl: My greatest hope is that Index Data would work together with Knowledge Integration to develop a solution but that would probably cost too much. |
| 21:16 | wizzyrea | !hudson botsnack cheetos |
| 21:16 | hudsonbot | wizzyrea: you're so kind to me! I just love cheetos! |
| 21:16 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 21:18 | cait | !hudsonbog botsnack carrots |
| 21:18 | hudsonbot | cait did you mean me? Unknown command 'bog' |
| 21:18 | Use !hudsonhelp to get help! | |
| 21:18 | cait | oh |
| 21:18 | thd | hdl: We also have Simple Server but that requires much work. |
| 21:18 | cait | !hudsonbot botsnack carrots |
| 21:18 | hudsonbot | cait did you mean me? Unknown command 'bot' |
| 21:18 | Use !hudsonhelp to get help! | |
| 21:18 | wizzyrea | cait: there you go being all healthy |
| 21:18 | !hudson botsnack carrots | |
| 21:18 | hudsonbot | wizzyrea: thanks a lot! om nom nom. I really like that carrots |
| 21:18 | cait | yeah - but know I have to eat them myself |
| 21:19 | ah, you saved me :) | |
| 21:19 | * thd | needs to visit the doctor again :( |
| 21:20 | wizzyrea | thd: hope you feel better soon |
| 21:20 | wizzyrea left #koha | |
| 21:20 | thd | good evening hdl and paul_p |
| 21:20 | good evening wizzyrea | |
| 21:20 | hdl | have a nice day |
| 21:20 | wizzyrea joined #koha | |
| 21:20 | hdl | feel better. |
| 21:21 | thd | hdl: I have been feeling better and then whatever it is comes back ;( |
| 21:21 | cait | yes, get better |
| 21:21 | thd | good evening #koha |
| 21:21 | hdl | thd: bad. |
| 21:22 | thd is now known as thd-away | |
| 21:22 | wizzyrea | jcamins_a: "assiduously" i like it. |
| 21:24 | Elwell | Q - which plugin does munin use to announce commits? |
| 21:26 | gmcharlt | Elwell: the RSS plugin |
| 21:29 | Elwell | ah OK figures. |
| 21:29 | gmcharlt | trying to do something? |
| 21:30 | Elwell | possibly - thinking about hacking my own bot to add some twitter pulling (there's an abandoned supybot plugin and a standalone twitter bot) but using RSS may save me a pile of pain as I already use RSS to pull in planet updates |
| 21:33 | hudsonbot | Project Koha_Master build #136: SUCCESS in 18 min: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]/Koha_Master/136/ |
| 21:33 | Katrin Fischer: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name | |
| 21:33 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5003 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Can not search for organisation by name |
| 21:48 | * cait | hums happily |
| 21:53 | chris | heh |
| 21:56 | * robin | suspects poor grounding. |
| 21:57 | wizzyrea | lol robin |
| 21:59 | chris | hdl: still around? the first mail from savitra |
| 21:59 | Ability to link to items belong to host records from a analytical record | |
| 21:59 | im going to reject for bad copyright | |
| 21:59 | well hopefully colin will for me | |
| 22:00 | hudsonbot | Starting build 137 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 22:00 | chris | but im pretty sure you didnt write it |
| 22:00 | +# Copyright 2009 BibLibre | |
| 22:00 | hdl left #koha | |
| 22:01 | robin | that looks like a no :) |
| 22:01 | chris | :) |
| 22:02 | munin | New commit(s) kohagit: Fix bug on opac-detail.pl with switch statement <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]19556d927d875cf97> |
| 22:04 | cait | hm, that's something we wanted to talk about, when do we change copyright statements and how do we do it - I think my changes were too small until now, but still curious about it |
| 22:05 | * chris_n | counts 5 occurances of perl's switch still in the code |
| 22:05 | chris | i think there is a patch in the wild from colin |
| 22:05 | chris_n | rather grep does |
| 22:05 | chris | im going to find and apply |
| 22:05 | robin | cait: my thinking is that anything beyond a trivial change, you should add yourself to the copyright. |
| 22:05 | * chris_n | wonders why it has not been a problem before now |
| 22:06 | chris | i agree with robin |
| 22:06 | chris_n: it is most certainly deprecated and we shouldnt be using it | |
| 22:06 | chris_n | oh, I agree |
| 22:06 | cait | so, what is a trivial change? |
| 22:06 | wizzyrea | so something like that entire rewrite I did of the install.debian |
| 22:06 | I should be on that | |
| 22:06 | chris | yes wizzyrea |
| 22:06 | chris_n | I'm just wondering about the problematic nature of it |
| 22:06 | chris | cait: spacing |
| 22:06 | * chris_n | runs perl 10 |
| 22:06 | cait | hm |
| 22:07 | take my last 2 patches as example - should I have changed something for those? | |
| 22:07 | robin | cait: yeah, or a typo fix or something I'd consider trivial |
| 22:07 | cait | I think the second is really too small, perhaps the first? but touching a lot of files |
| 22:07 | with very small changes | |
| 22:07 | chris | it is changing functionality |
| 22:07 | robin | there's no hard boundry, but I think as soon as you change behaviour, that's non-trivial |
| 22:07 | wizzyrea | myself or my institution? |
| 22:07 | chris | id put parts copyright you |
| 22:07 | wizzyrea: i dunno know your rules | |
| 22:08 | robin | wizzyrea: it depends on many things |
| 22:08 | wizzyrea | k |
| 22:08 | chris | thats between you and your organisation i suspect |
| 22:08 | robin | wizzyrea: work for hire, for example/ |
| 22:08 | wizzyrea | depends on many things I understand. ;) |
| 22:08 | robin | and that also varies by jurisdiction. |
| 22:08 | wizzyrea | I suspect since it was done on their time, NEKLS should take the copyright, |
| 22:08 | which is fine by me | |
| 22:08 | robin | yeah, that's a reasonable approach. |
| 22:09 | I think it says in my contract that by default things are copyright catalyst. | |
| 22:09 | wizzyrea | not sure I have such a statement in the conditions of my employment |
| 22:09 | cait | I think nobody has thought about putting something in my contract |
| 22:09 | wizzyrea | but, it's a courtesy nonetheless |
| 22:10 | robin | so I put that as the copyright, and usually note somewhere that it was me that wrote it, more to help enquiries from people. |
| 22:10 | wizzyrea: yeah, in that case it depends on what the law sets as the default for where you are. My conjecture would be that in the US it's copyright your employer by default, in the EU possibly not. | |
| 22:10 | wizzyrea | yea, that seems right something like parts copyright 2010 Northeast Kansas Library System (Liz Rea) |
| 22:11 | chris | yeah |
| 22:12 | cait | uh, will have to ask someone at work |
| 22:12 | chris | that would be just fine |
| 22:13 | nengard left #koha | |
| 22:15 | hudsonbot | Starting build 26 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 22:19 | Project Koha_Master build #137: SUCCESS in 19 min: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]/Koha_Master/137/ | |
| 22:19 | Frédéric Demians: Fix bug on opac-detail.pl with switch statement | |
| 22:20 | Starting build 138 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS) | |
| 22:20 | chris | heh |
| 22:20 | hudson is getting a workout | |
| 22:22 | munin | New commit(s) kohagit: Merge remote branch 'kc/master' into new/bug_5105 <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]2c34e78200d05af61> / Bug 5105 - Remove use of depreciated Switch module <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]2a9f8206a206027a3> |
| 22:23 | cait | time to sleep |
| 22:23 | good night all! | |
| 22:23 | robin | bye! |
| 22:23 | chris | night cait |
| 22:24 | cait left #koha | |
| 22:36 | hudsonbot | Project Koha_3.2.x build #26: SUCCESS in 21 min: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/26/ |
| 22:36 | * Katrin Fischer: Bug 5003: Can not search for organisation by name | |
| 22:36 | * Frédéric Demians: Fix bug on opac-detail.pl with switch statement | |
| 22:40 | Project Koha_Master build #138: SUCCESS in 20 min: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]/Koha_Master/138/ | |
| 22:40 | Colin Campbell: Bug 5105 - Remove use of depreciated Switch module | |
| 22:41 | cfouts | chris: you mentioned during the meeting you'd had a change of preference for using an ORM, is that correct? |
| 22:42 | chris | no i never was for a full ORM implementation |
| 22:43 | but i might be persuaded on that, but certainly not before we are running under a persistent environment | |
| 22:44 | cfouts | oh, interesting. I had misunderstood you previously, then,. |
| 22:44 | chris | im for removing our dependence on mysql |
| 22:44 | cfouts | I see |
| 22:44 | chris | an ORM is one way of doing that |
| 22:44 | but at this point, it would do more harm than good | |
| 22:44 | cfouts | the latest in that camp is adding further motivation |
| 22:44 | chris | I do like DBIx::Class::Schema though |
| 22:44 | a lot | |
| 22:45 | cfouts | what about it? |
| 22:45 | chris | and want to move to that, rather than a .sql file and updatedatabase.pl |
| 22:45 | its database agnostic | |
| 22:45 | using it, i made a schema from a running koha on mysql | |
| 22:45 | and deployed it on postgres | |
| 22:45 | and it just worked | |
| 22:46 | course it barfed when i tried loading in the sysprefs (because we have some mysqlisms in there) but those are easily fixed | |
| 22:46 | trea left #koha | |
| 22:46 | chris | http://search.cpan.org/~frew/D[…]hema/Versioned.pm |
| 22:46 | is what i really like | |
| 22:47 | i *think* we can use it to get rid of the number clashing we face doing database versioning now | |
| 22:47 | or at least make it less likely | |
| 22:47 | cfouts | that's a hard problem. |
| 22:48 | reducing the number of version increments would help | |
| 22:48 | I've heard about the dbic versioning capacity but haven't looked into it | |
| 22:48 | I'm concerned about its speed | |
| 22:48 | chris_n | +1 # reducing/easing db versioning |
| 22:48 | cfouts | dbic, not the versioning |
| 22:49 | chris | like i say, im not convinced on a total ORM |
| 22:49 | but we can still use the schema part without using dbic anywhere else | |
| 22:49 | and i do like that about it a lot | |
| 22:49 | cfouts | can you explain that? |
| 22:50 | chris | you can just create and deploy schemas |
| 22:50 | and not have to use anything else | |
| 22:50 | cfouts | oh, I see. |
| 22:51 | chris | it doesnt lock you into using dbic for your db access everywhere like say something like tangram does |
| 22:52 | sometimes the ORM does daft things, so its nice to be able to choose where to use it | |
| 22:52 | thd-away is now known as thd | |
| 22:53 | thd | slef: are you back? |
| 22:53 | chris | its midnight, so i doubt it |
| 22:54 | or at least 11pm | |
| 22:54 | :) | |
| 22:54 | cfouts | the two I've looked at enable the user to do direct SQL without much issue, so that doesn't seem to be much of a problem |
| 22:55 | thd | he had stated that he might be back at a time which would be half an hour ago. |
| 22:55 | cfouts | the speed issue is difficult, though. I don't think we can deprecate running Koha as a CGI. |
| 22:55 | chris | yeah |
| 22:55 | the speed issue is why we dont use ORM on any of our big sites here | |
| 22:55 | (not koha sites) | |
| 22:55 | but things like stuff.co.nz etc | |
| 22:56 | not that i ever expect a koha site to get a fraction of the traffic .. itd be nice if libraries got that popular :-) | |
| 22:57 | cfouts | wily-nily database updates need to be reigned in somehow, though |
| 22:57 | chris | yup |
| 22:57 | robin | is 952$x considered repeatable? |
| 22:57 | chris | pass |
| 22:58 | robin | hmm. It maps to a DB field, so perhaps not. |
| 22:58 | sekjal | robin: no, not repeatable |
| 22:58 | according to the MARC framework | |
| 22:59 | robin | oh, I didn't think of looking there. Ta. |
| 22:59 | cfouts | interesting that using DBIC only for schema management would not conflict with using Rose::DB or another ORM for runtime. |
| 22:59 | chris | *nod* |
| 22:59 | im proposing only getting hte schema part going for 3.4 | |
| 23:00 | hudsonbot | Starting build 27 for job Koha_3.2.x (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 23:00 | chris | with the idea it wont stop anything else, and will at least move us quite a bit closer to not being chained to one db engine |
| 23:01 | * chris_n | would love to see some other's do testing over MariaDB |
| 23:01 | chris_n | that one is very much within grasp |
| 23:02 | chris | drizzle is pretty neat too |
| 23:02 | cfouts | I'm potentially going to be doing testing against PerconaDB |
| 23:02 | chris_n | one of my dev install is running over maria with about 30k records in it |
| 23:03 | chris | im assuing percona is gpl |
| 23:03 | but their website doesnt say | |
| 23:03 | cfouts | not sure |
| 23:03 | it has enhanced instrumentation | |
| 23:05 | chris | i hate sites that dont put up license info in a easy place |
| 23:05 | i shouldnt have to download the tarball to find out :) | |
| 23:05 | All Percona software is available for download and unlimited usage at no charge, released for free under open source licenses. Percona does not adhere to any "dual licensing" or "community vs. enterprise" software pricing strategies. There is only one version of all Percona software, and that version is always free. | |
| 23:06 | so im guessing still gpl :) | |
| 23:06 | sounds like they have learnt well from the lessons of mysql :) | |
| 23:07 | * chris | is now curious and its lunchtime so ill eyeball the source |
| 23:07 | chris_n | maria uses XtraDB as well |
| 23:07 | cfouts | in that vein, they recently issued an elaboration: http://www.mysqlperformanceblo[…]s-to-mysql-users/ |
| 23:08 | chris_n | it sure sounds like there is some very low hanging fruit here to be had in multi-db support |
| 23:09 | chris | yeah |
| 23:10 | percona seems cool | |
| 23:10 | as does drizzle | |
| 23:10 | and maria | |
| 23:10 | drizzle isnt a drop in replacement of course | |
| 23:10 | chris_n | nice writeup |
| 23:10 | chris | http://drizzle.org/Home.html |
| 23:11 | chris_n | cfouts: if percona is as drop-in as maria, you can leave your db's in place |
| 23:11 | cfouts | that's what I'm hoping. |
| 23:11 | * chris_n | did and maria cranked right up without a hitch |
| 23:11 | chris_n | very nice imho |
| 23:11 | cfouts | though we're still using predominantly mysql 5.0 |
| 23:11 | chris | gpl2 |
| 23:12 | according to their source | |
| 23:12 | chris_n | that fits nicely into the picture |
| 23:12 | bbl | |
| 23:18 | hudsonbot | Project Koha_3.2.x build #27: SUCCESS in 18 min: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]ob/Koha_3.2.x/27/ |
| 23:18 | Chris Cormack: Merge remote branch 'kc/master' into new/bug_5105 | |
| 23:18 | chris | sekjal: responded to your email |
| 23:19 | and added 2 more rules | |
| 23:20 | sekjal | great, chris, thanks! |
| 23:25 | irma left #koha | |
| 23:41 | cfouts left #koha | |
| 23:49 | dafydd left #koha |
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