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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:09 | thd is now known as thd-away | |
| 00:36 | rhcl | ping wizzyrea |
| 00:36 | rhcl left #koha | |
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| 01:18 | ricardo | Sleep time. Take care everyone! :) |
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| 01:30 | brendan joined #koha | |
| 01:34 | rhcl joined #koha | |
| 01:34 | rhcl is now known as rhcl_home | |
| 01:34 | rhcl_home | ping wizzyrea |
| 01:34 | @seen wizzyrea | |
| 01:34 | munin | rhcl_home: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> tomorrow :P |
| 01:38 | nengard left #koha | |
| 01:46 | rhcl_home | @seen kyle |
| 01:46 | munin | rhcl_home: kyle was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <kyle> A late thought, instead of having a version number battle, why not move to a date based versioning system like Ubuntu? Koha 9.12? |
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| 03:21 | brendan | @wunder 93117 |
| 03:21 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 10.9�C (7:19 PM PST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). |
| 03:32 | Amit joined #koha | |
| 03:32 | Amit | hi brendan, chris |
| 03:32 | brendan | Hi Amit |
| 03:34 | chris | @wunder wellington, nz |
| 03:34 | munin | chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling). |
| 03:35 | chris | gotcha brendan :) |
| 03:35 | brendan | blew me outta the water |
| 03:38 | liz-nekls | @wunder 66057 |
| 03:38 | munin | liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:38 | liz-nekls | @wunder 66047 |
| 03:38 | munin | liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -14.7�C (9:36 PM CST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -18.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.50 in 1032.7 hPa (Falling). |
| 03:39 | liz-nekls | typing fail |
| 03:39 | yesss | |
| 03:39 | brendan | wow that's too cold |
| 03:39 | liz-nekls | it's effing freezing here |
| 03:39 | chris | when it gets past -10, its just mental |
| 03:39 | liz-nekls | seriously, it's freeze your fat off cold |
| 03:39 | chris | @wunder scott base, antartica |
| 03:39 | munin | chris: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:39 | chris | @wunder macmurdo, antartica |
| 03:39 | munin | chris: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:39 | liz-nekls | @wunder scott base, antarctica |
| 03:40 | munin | liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:40 | chilts | @wunder antarctica |
| 03:40 | chris | @wunder mcmurdo sound, antartica |
| 03:40 | munin | chilts: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:40 | chris: The current temperature in McMurdo, Antarctica is -1.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling). | |
| 03:40 | liz-nekls | @wunder south pole, antarcctica |
| 03:40 | munin | liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 03:40 | chris | got it |
| 03:40 | chilts | nice :) |
| 03:40 | chris | you are colder than antartica |
| 03:40 | liz-nekls | ah there you go |
| 03:40 | oh jesus | |
| 03:40 | * liz-nekls | faints |
| 03:40 | chilts | lol |
| 03:40 | hope you're ok :) | |
| 03:40 | liz-nekls | lol yea |
| 03:41 | though I guess it's summer down there | |
| 03:41 | chilts | heh lol even more :) |
| 03:41 | summer started this morning I think, so yeah, you're just right :) | |
| 03:41 | been terrible | |
| 03:41 | on that note, time for me to brave windy Wellington | |
| 03:41 | * chilts | & |
| 03:42 | liz-nekls | "down there" meaning both NZ and antarctica |
| 03:42 | chris | is it hometime already? |
| 03:42 | feels like i just got here | |
| 03:50 | Amit | @wunder Bangalore india |
| 03:50 | munin | Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 18.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. |
| 03:50 | brendan | @wunder north pole, alaska |
| 03:50 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Speedway, North Pole, Alaska is -26.7�C (6:46 PM AKST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -67.0�C. Windchill: -27.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). |
| 03:51 | brendan | gotta beat liz-nekls |
| 03:51 | Amit | @wunder Dehradun, India |
| 03:51 | munin | Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 8.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Heavy Fog. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa. |
| 03:51 | brendan | sorry gotcha beat there |
| 03:51 | liz-nekls | oh snap |
| 03:51 | yea, it's winter in the arctic lol | |
| 03:51 | Amit | @wunder New Delhi |
| 03:51 | munin | Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 10.0�C (9:00 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising). |
| 04:15 | rhcl1 left #koha | |
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| 04:46 | liz-nekls | this is kind of a silly non-koha question |
| 04:47 | say I have a file, 9 lines, and I want to get 8 of those lines and append some more text in a bash script | |
| 04:47 | the appending I think I get but how to get the first 8 lines | |
| 05:05 | never mind mind! I got it :D | |
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| 05:42 | schuster | asking again - hope someone is here - what command to use to pull the 3.2 release for alpha testing. |
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| 06:53 | Ropuch | Morning #koha |
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| 06:59 | chris | moring europe |
| 07:00 | Ropuch | Morning chris |
| 07:02 | rhcl1 left #koha | |
| 07:02 | chris | i saw an email from you the other day ropuch, all talking about someone wanting to make a new library system? google translate did an ok job, I think you answered them well :-) |
| 07:06 | Ropuch | Oh |
| 07:06 | On polish forum? ;> | |
| 07:06 | chris | yes |
| 07:06 | my saved search found it | |
| 07:09 | Ropuch | I hoped that some of 'let's start yet another ils-wannabe piece of software' people will get interested in Koha (and lend me hand with translation), but thre's no response till now |
| 07:10 | chris | there is always the temptation for people want to start again |
| 07:10 | its usually how you spot a developer new to free software :-) | |
| 07:11 | the ones who have been around a while would much rather find an existing piece of software to work on :) | |
| 07:11 | we certainly would have built on an existing one if one existed when Koha started | |
| 07:13 | Ropuch | Well, fresh ideas are good, but most people are not aware that full featured, MARC compliant ILS is quite complex software |
| 07:13 | liz-nekls | lordy that's the understatement of the century lol |
| 07:14 | Ropuch | when I was speaking about koha on Open Solaris conf, I talked to some no-library relted IT guys |
| 07:14 | liz-nekls | "it's just a database, right?" |
| 07:14 | ^.^ | |
| 07:14 | Ropuch | "C'mmon, what is this all about, library software, 4 tables and here we go" |
| 07:15 | liz-nekls | how about 30 libraries with individual rules and 1k interlibrary loans a day? |
| 07:15 | all in one database | |
| 07:15 | silly guys. | |
| 07:15 | Ropuch | It's not me who you want to convince |
| 07:15 | :) | |
| 07:16 | chris | like i said at kohacon in texas |
| 07:17 | its just a database ... with insane rules | |
| 07:18 | its the business logic that makes it hard, not the db structure :-) | |
| 07:20 | its the exceptions to the exceptions of the exceptions | |
| 07:20 | and now i must go do the dishes :) | |
| 07:21 | Ropuch | I don't really know how are the things going in other countries, but in Poland being librarian is almost equal to some mental illnes: payments are the lowest, there's no respect associated with the job (librarian? laZy fat ass who could not get a normal job, just sitting here, drinking coffee all day) |
| 07:21 | Or "you neeed to graduate to be librarian? And what are you doijng during study - meomorizng location of the books?" | |
| 07:22 | liz-nekls | oh, yea, there's a conception in the states that all librarians do is sit in the library and read books |
| 07:24 | magnusenger | not too different from norway, then... |
| 07:27 | liz-nekls | it may be fairly universal :D |
| 07:27 | Ropuch | What a relief ;> |
| 07:29 | liz-nekls: we're supposed to have exams on drinking coffe and saying "Shh, quiet" techniques | |
| 07:30 | liz-nekls | ooh, I aced shushing |
| 07:30 | j/k lol | |
| 07:30 | Ropuch | hehe |
| 07:30 | liz-nekls | I have a killer "mom look" |
| 07:30 | the "if you do that again you'll never have cookies again" look | |
| 07:31 | Ropuch | Damn |
| 07:31 | * Ropuch | pass the master shushing bel to liz-nekls |
| 07:32 | liz-nekls | confession: I don't have a library degree -- mostly because I didn't/don't feel they would teach me what I want to know. At least not the schools near me. |
| 07:33 | * liz-nekls | conjures her best Gandalf and shouts "SILENCE!" |
| 07:33 | Ropuch | Well, I don't regret becoming librarian, but honestly our librarianship and information scienece studies focus too much on history |
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| 07:35 | Ropuch | I remeber having an argue in last month with some "Big Librarian Fishes" about using IM and microbloging in libraries |
| 07:37 | liz-nekls | oh man, you might be interested in this: http://www.23thingskansas.org |
| 07:37 | Ropuch | Instead of making and twitter account and just tweet, they would rather make a "From incunabule to tweeter" conference ;> |
| 07:37 | liz-nekls | training for librarians re: social technologies |
| 07:40 | Ropuch | I've ordered "Social software in libraries" - will post a rewiev whet it comes |
| 07:40 | liz-nekls | I think NEKLS owns that book... |
| 07:41 | Ropuch | Problem is: in smaller libraries there's often people without proper education (resources and will) to make library a place where people like to be, in university libraries there is "they come to us anyway" thinking |
| 07:42 | liz-nekls | yea, we struggle with that here as well |
| 07:43 | but we have really awesome librarians in our state, i think. For the most part they really "get" that the library in a small town is really a gathering place for the community | |
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| 08:39 | CGI308 | hello, anyone? |
| 08:43 | i have a query, i install a fresyh koha server then i want to transfer the old database of our previous koha, what file im going to copy from the old koha server? im using the koha for windows | |
| 08:43 | Ropuch | You need to dump your database into file |
| 08:45 | CGI308 | how? technically im a moron with this thing |
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| 08:46 | paul_p | chris: about ? |
| 08:48 | Ropuch | CGI308: hym, it would be easier if you had Koha installed on linux, if it's windows I can only guess |
| 08:48 | Ypu should have some mysql database installed on your win box | |
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| 09:06 | slef | is there a meeting about now, or am I confused? |
| 09:07 | Colin | 19:00 Chris has sent out a correction email |
| 09:07 | slef | not opened that mailbox yet |
| 09:07 | thanks | |
| 09:07 | Colin | I got here before I did too |
| 09:08 | slef | I was delayed by pouring coffee over a neighbouring office |
| 09:09 | oh well, I'll go do other stuff for a while :-) | |
| 09:15 | Kivutar | why is C4 named C4? |
| 09:20 | magnusenger | something about HLTs old system being called C2, so someone thought naming the new system C4 would make it twice as good, i think? i may be remembering this wrong... |
| 09:22 | ah, here it is: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]_config_and_so_on | |
| 09:23 | hm, the bit about translations further down on that page seems somewhat out of date... | |
| 09:26 | * magnusenger | added a link to http://translate.koha.org/ - better than nothing... |
| 09:34 | chris | back now |
| 09:35 | paul_p | hi chris. did you see marc roberson has a new position ? |
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| 09:36 | chris | Kivutar: magnusenger is mostly right, C4 was a working name, C4 being twice as good ... or it will explode (c4 being the name of a explosive) |
| 09:36 | paul_p: yes i did | |
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| 09:42 | Kivutar | :) |
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| 12:56 | nengard | morning all |
| 12:56 | jdavidb | Hi, nengard! :) |
| 12:57 | nengard | trying to decide where to start :) |
| 12:58 | jwagner | A cup of caffiene might be a good place.... |
| 12:58 | * jwagner | heads off to get tea |
| 13:05 | paul_p | morning nengard & jwagner & jdavidb |
| 13:05 | jwagner | Bonjour paul_p |
| 13:05 | jdavidb | morning, paul_p! :)\ |
| 13:05 | paul_p | jdavidb (& others) : did you see that Marc Roberson has left LL ? |
| 13:06 | jdavidb | I did see that, Paul. |
| 13:06 | gmcharlt | good morning |
| 13:06 | not many left | |
| 13:06 | paul_p | good morning gmcharlt |
| 13:06 | gmcharlt: ??? | |
| 13:07 | gmcharlt | at LL, I mean |
| 13:07 | nengard | Congrats to Marc!! |
| 13:08 | paul_p | jdavidb: true. not that good for their customers, for sure. |
| 13:09 | slef | we also have no employees, but we're a partnership, so that's OK |
| 13:10 | nengard | :) |
| 13:11 | ColinC joined #koha | |
| 13:15 | nengard | if you're on LinkedIn - I added KohaCon as an event you can mark your interest in: http://events.linkedin.com/Koh[…]n-2010/pub/195161 |
| 13:17 | Colin left #koha | |
| 13:40 | jwagner | @wunder 20817 |
| 13:40 | munin | jwagner: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is -3.2�C (8:38 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013.1 hPa (Steady). |
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| 14:01 | schuster | wizzyrea you here? |
| 14:03 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 14:12 | paul_p | happy new year schuster ! |
| 14:13 | schuster | Thanks same to you! It's started off with me finally getting an old laptop running debian lenny last night about 11:30 pm Finally! agh. |
| 14:18 | owen | @wunder 45701 |
| 14:18 | munin | owen: The current temperature in Athens, Ohio is -8.0�C (8:54 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady). |
| 14:19 | paul_p | Colin: thanks for your cleaning patches ! |
| 14:21 | nengard | cleaning is a great way to start the new year |
| 14:28 | Colin | There's plenty of cleaning to do |
| 14:44 | brendan | @wunder 93117 |
| 14:44 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 5.5�C (6:38 AM PST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018.2 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:47 | owen | Nice. I wish our windchill was higher than the air temperature! |
| 14:59 | liz-nekls | @wunder 66047 |
| 14:59 | munin | liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -13.1�C (8:57 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -13.0�C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032.1 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:59 | liz-nekls | how can it be colder here than ohio?! |
| 14:59 | that's just not right | |
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| 15:01 | owen | liz-nekls: Sorry to break it to you, but at least compared to this part of Ohio Kansas weather is almost always worse. |
| 15:01 | liz-nekls | *sob* |
| 15:01 | jdavidb | @wunder 20852 |
| 15:01 | munin | jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -1.6�C (9:53 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003.3 hPa (Steady). |
| 15:02 | jdavidb | Balmy here, by comparison. |
| 15:02 | owen | liz-nekls: Witness the first snow I experienced here after I moved here in high school: There was an inch or less on the ground and I dutifully trudged to the bus stop only to be told school had been canceled. |
| 15:02 | jdavidb | jwagner wondered out loud why I wasn't wearing a heavier coat this morning. The answer: because we are not in Kansas. |
| 15:03 | liz-nekls | owen: hahahaha |
| 15:03 | we've got like 8 inches on the ground, it's the most I can remember in a loooong time | |
| 15:03 | it's not DC snowpocalypse, but it's enough | |
| 15:04 | owen | 8 inches would be a snowpocalypse around here |
| 15:05 | jdavidb | 8 inches is the Magic Number here, too. (That's the height above ground of the electrified third rail on the Metro. 8" triggers the shutdown of all aboveground segments, which would strand me at home, pretty-much. |
| 15:05 | magnusenger | @wunder bodo, norway |
| 15:05 | munin | magnusenger: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -10.0�C (3:20 PM CET on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -19.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). |
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| 15:06 | owen | there you go liz-nekls, you're colder than Norway! |
| 15:06 | liz-nekls | Ooh, do I win a bad weather prize? |
| 15:06 | ok, now i really must get up and get the wee one ready for playtime and get into work. | |
| 15:07 | owen | The bad weather prize is a bronze statuette in the shape of that dirty ice that builds up in back of your tire when you drive in the snow. |
| 15:07 | jdavidb | Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. |
| 15:07 | magnusenger | hehe - but we've got windchill of -19 |
| 15:08 | owen | magnusenger: True. You'll have to share the prize, like a Nobel prize for bad weather. |
| 15:08 | magnusenger | cool! (pun intended...) |
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| 15:27 | moodaepo | @wunder 56001 |
| 15:27 | munin | moodaepo: The current temperature in MSU Physics Dept, Mankato, Minnesota is -24.4�C (9:25 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -29.0�C. Windchill: -24.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Steady). |
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| 15:45 | nengard | site set up for koha newsletter - now i just need some articles to include :) |
| 15:45 | they can be as short as 2 lines - if you have something to share with the koha world, please email me :) | |
| 15:46 | Colin joined #koha | |
| 16:02 | hdl_laptop | @seen pianohacker |
| 16:02 | munin | hdl_laptop: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <pianohacker> Off to work on college applications, have a great evening, everybody |
| 16:04 | rhcl joined #koha | |
| 16:04 | rhcl | ping wizyrea |
| 16:04 | oops wizzyrea | |
| 16:09 | @seen jdavidb | |
| 16:09 | munin | rhcl: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 1 minute, and 21 seconds ago: <jdavidb> Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. |
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| 16:20 | owen | Hey liz-nekls, rhcl was lookin' for you |
| 16:20 | rhcl | liz liz, are you there? |
| 16:22 | liz-nekls | I saw your message rhcl, i'll have to think about it |
| 16:22 | * liz-nekls | is in a meetiing :( |
| 16:23 | rhcl | rog |
| 16:32 | nengard | thanks to all who have emailed me so far - we're at 6 items in the newsletter!! woo hoo!! |
| 16:33 | ColinC joined #koha | |
| 16:34 | nengard | i think I'm going to set the publication date to the 15th of each month |
| 16:39 | Colin left #koha | |
| 16:43 | paul_p | nengard++ |
| 16:44 | brendan | agreed paul_p |
| 16:44 | nengard++ | |
| 16:50 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 16:51 | jdavidb | rhcl: pong? |
| 16:53 | rhcl | jdavidb: just a sec |
| 16:57 | jdavidb | okies. |
| 16:58 | nengard | Colin - re: bug 3945 -- are you saying that it works for you? |
| 17:00 | Colin | nengard: Works for me and on customer sites |
| 17:00 | nengard | strange - it's always been an issue for me - and i've installed new dbs - like this one |
| 17:01 | anyone have the issue i mentioned in 3945? | |
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| 17:01 | Colin | if you select the blank line which supplier is retrieved? |
| 17:02 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 17:09 | nengard | Colin - nada - nothing - zilch :) |
| 17:10 | is it possible that I see that row because I have subscriptions without suppliers? something that should be allowed - the page warns you that you won't be able to claim if you don't enter a vendor - so those subscriptions shouldn't show at all on that page | |
| 17:13 | Colin | Possible.. leave it with me and I'll try and duplicate it (and maybe even fix it!!) |
| 17:15 | jdavidb | colin++ |
| 17:19 | rhcl is now known as rhcl_brb | |
| 17:23 | nengard | colin++ :) |
| 17:24 | Colin | nengard: Stage one done.. I now display claims where there's no one to claim to |
| 17:24 | nengard | ahhh :) |
| 17:24 | i love hearing i'm not crazy :) | |
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| 17:47 | rhcl_brb is now known as rhcl | |
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| 18:07 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 18:11 | * chris | is gonna try to catch an early bus |
| 18:12 | chris | i may be a little late to the meeting |
| 18:12 | but will try to get to the office before 8am | |
| 18:28 | kyle joined #koha | |
| 18:30 | * chris_n | may be a few minutes late to the meeting |
| 18:38 | thd-away is now known as thd | |
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| 18:44 | jransom | Morning all. |
| 18:45 | Can someplease point me to the agenda for the meeting | |
| 18:45 | owen-away is now known as owen | |
| 18:45 | thd | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes10jan05 |
| 18:47 | jransom: meetings have their own namespace so that you can go to en:events:meetings:irc_meetings and find them all | |
| 18:48 | jransom | t. I had a poke around but couldn't find them (must still be in holiday mode :) |
| 18:48 | thd | jransom: any higher point in the hierarchy such as en:events should have links to what is below |
| 18:50 | jransom: The simple way may be to find the general link from the main page by searching for meetings within the page at http://wiki.koha.org | |
| 18:50 | jransom | Thd: I have the first draft of rules for Koha foundation here. is it posssible to load them onto this wiki or stick them somewhere else, like the Trust's Kete? |
| 18:50 | collum joined #koha | |
| 18:51 | nengard | jransom it should be a new page on the wiki - and/or on the kete |
| 18:51 | just so long as we can find a link to it | |
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| 18:54 | thd | jransom: a caution from recent experience of nengard. Uploading documents can go wrong where a PDF is not written correctly and then will not open directly in the web browser for many users. Trying again and making a new link to the successful attempt will fix the issue. |
| 18:55 | ... the original name for the upload apparently cannot be overwritten without the assistance of the site administrator. | |
| 18:55 | hdl_laptop | hi jransom |
| 18:55 | jransom | alrighty. I have put it on our Kete: http://kete.library.org.nz/doc[…]e_Rules_Jan10.pdf |
| 18:57 | nengard | jransom can you add that link to the meeting page |
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| 18:58 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 19:00 | thd | That wording 'intellectual property' gives rise to consternation from Richard Stallman where such 'property' is of a sufficiently different kind that he thinks the common word property is misapplied in referring to it collectively. |
| 19:00 | chris | back |
| 19:00 | jransom | done |
| 19:00 | chris | yeah, i hate the term IP too |
| 19:01 | i think calling thigns what they are, trademarks, copyright etc is much more honest | |
| 19:02 | * jdavidb | feeds thd's last back through his English language parser again. |
| 19:02 | jransom | thd: this is absolutely the first cut and I havn't read it thoroughly yet either. Welcome all comments and dicussion. I would prefer them on the Kete site as either added comments or in the body of the wiki article. |
| 19:02 | I would appreciate lots of brains and unput to this :) | |
| 19:03 | chris | :) |
| 19:03 | thd | jransom: just making idle comment about what might actually be the best term to use by legal conventions. |
| 19:03 | nengard | who's running this meeting? :) |
| 19:04 | jransom | nominates Nicole |
| 19:04 | * jdavidb | nominates nengard. |
| 19:04 | thd | Is it not you nengard? |
| 19:04 | nengard | LOL |
| 19:04 | okay so - i call this meeting to order | |
| 19:04 | chris | yep, first one to ask, runs the meeting, its the rule |
| 19:04 | jdavidb | That's three. you're drafted. |
| 19:04 | slef | heh, first person to ask |
| 19:04 | nengard | and we should all start with introductions |
| 19:04 | Nicole C. Engard, ByWater | |
| 19:04 | slef | MJ Ray, member of software.coop |
| 19:04 | francharb left #koha | |
| 19:04 | jdavidb | J. David Bavousett, PTFS |
| 19:04 | jwagner | Jane Wagner, PTFS |
| 19:04 | owen | Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library |
| 19:04 | jransom | Joann Ransom. HLT, NZ. |
| 19:04 | brendan | Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions |
| 19:05 | chris | Chris Cormack, Catalyst, NZ |
| 19:05 | Colin | Colin Campbell PTFS Europe |
| 19:05 | thd | Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 19:05 | rhcl | Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO |
| 19:05 | sekjal | Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries |
| 19:05 | collum | Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, KY |
| 19:05 | chilts | Andrew Chilton, Catalyst IT, NZ |
| 19:06 | kyle | Kyle Hall, Crawford County Federated Library System, Meadville, PA |
| 19:06 | wizzyrea | Liz Rea NEKLS |
| 19:06 | nengard | today's agenda can be found online at: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes10jan05 |
| 19:06 | who will be taking notes? | |
| 19:06 | Nate | Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions |
| 19:06 | hdl_laptop | Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre |
| 19:06 | liz-nekls left #koha | |
| 19:06 | magnusenger | Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
| 19:07 | GeorgeSue joined #koha | |
| 19:07 | schuster | David Schuster - Plano ISD |
| 19:07 | nengard | volunteers to take notes? |
| 19:07 | chris | its being logged, so its more a volunteer to write it up from the logs |
| 19:08 | slef | I noticed the last meeting was not noted - maybe it's a good idea not to compile short notes until some dust has settled. |
| 19:08 | nengard | okey dokey - then our first agenda item |
| 19:08 | chris | yeah i think write up the minutes from the log after the meeting might be best |
| 19:08 | nengard | Report on forming HLT Koha foundation committee. (First draft of rules: http://kete.library.org.nz/sit[…]committee-of-hlt) |
| 19:09 | jransom | Bob has kindly helped us by writing a starting point for the rules of the koha subcommittee of hlt. |
| 19:09 | It is a starting point only. | |
| 19:09 | nengard | where should we send suggestions/edits to? |
| 19:10 | jransom | I would like to take the HLT Trustees a starting point at the end of january |
| 19:10 | I think on the Kete either as a comment or else in the body of the entry. its a wiki | |
| 19:10 | slef | What do the yellow bits mean? To be decided? |
| 19:11 | jransom | unknown |
| 19:11 | the whole thing is to bedecided | |
| 19:11 | Ropuch | Heloo everybody |
| 19:11 | jransom | there are gaps too |
| 19:11 | GeorgeSue | Happy New Year everyone: |
| 19:11 | thd | slef: Is there any reason not to have notes for the benefit of those who would not take the time to read the log? |
| 19:12 | slef | Kete requires registration which is a pain and does HLT want a load of one-comment koha people registering? Can we gather comments on the wiki or a thread? |
| 19:12 | nengard | jransom, can you give us a link to the kete page? I only have a link to the PDF which I cannot comment on or edit |
| 19:12 | jransom | Hey George ( Horowhenua Library Trust trustee) |
| 19:12 | http://kete.library.org.nz/sit[…]bcommittee-of-hlt | |
| 19:12 | sorry folks | |
| 19:12 | chris_n | Chris Nighswonger, FBC |
| 19:12 | jransom | would it better to take commenst on the koha wiki instead |
| 19:12 | slef | thd: alerting the press and certain others who aren't taking time to participate. That may or may not matter, depending on what is reported to this meeting. |
| 19:12 | jransom | rather than take it offsite |
| 19:13 | slef | let me see if I can convert the PDF to a wiki page |
| 19:13 | * Ropuch | Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE |
| 19:13 | slef | yes, that works OK-ish. I'll convert that to a page immediately after this meeting |
| 19:13 | if that's OK with HLT? | |
| 19:14 | thd | slef: I partly meant to encourage involvement by more interested parties at future meetings. |
| 19:14 | jransom | absolutely |
| 19:14 | chris | slef: i think that thats a great idea |
| 19:14 | slef | ok, I've landed myself more work :-/ ;-) |
| 19:14 | thd | :) |
| 19:14 | nengard | should we note what edits we've made? I know that the history keeps track of that - but it may not be easy to see what everyone added/changed/suggested using the history |
| 19:15 | slef | thd: yes, I appreciate the arguments for noting. |
| 19:15 | chris_n | nengard: good idea |
| 19:15 | slef | thd: it's unusual that we have reasons not to note, so I mention it. |
| 19:15 | nengard: it should not matter who wrote what. | |
| 19:15 | chris_n | slef: unless someone would like clarification on a point |
| 19:15 | nengard | well i like knowing who to contact for clarification |
| 19:15 | slef | but this is an argument which has been circulating around the co-op for months, so ho hum. |
| 19:15 | nengard | chris_n reading my mind |
| 19:15 | chris_n | :-) |
| 19:16 | slef | either the clarification can be provided by anyone or the point should be struck |
| 19:16 | just write FIXME next to it and leave it a while | |
| 19:16 | jransom | timeframes: I would like to get this doc on the next agenda, so he 2nd to last Thursday in Jan |
| 19:16 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 19:16 | jransom | however we don't have to make that deadline. |
| 19:17 | nengard | so basically we all need to carve out some time to submit comments/edits/etc in the next couple weeks |
| 19:17 | chris | thats the next HLT meeting jransom ? |
| 19:17 | jransom | There is no panic or rush here but steady progress would be good. |
| 19:17 | yes | |
| 19:17 | chris | seems like a good point to aim for |
| 19:17 | chris_n | steady progress++ |
| 19:17 | nengard | jransom if something gets held up can you submit a draft at that meeting? |
| 19:17 | masonj | hi everyone |
| 19:17 | thd | Someone could attach his clear name or initials if they think that they may need to explain further about a comment in the wiki. |
| 19:17 | nengard | thd works for me |
| 19:18 | masonj | Mason James, KohaAloha NZ |
| 19:18 | thd | s/they/his/g |
| 19:18 | jransom | I could but we do try to get all papers out with the agenda so trustees have time to read and digest before the meeting; makes for better quality deciionmaking :) |
| 19:18 | nengard | jransom - makes sense! |
| 19:19 | GeorgeSue | We eill need a short minutes for each meeting for the records. |
| 19:19 | nengard | okay - so can we all agree to try to take some time to make edits/additions? |
| 19:19 | slef | +1 |
| 19:19 | chris | yep |
| 19:19 | thd | ++ |
| 19:19 | jransom | yes |
| 19:19 | schuster | + |
| 19:19 | chris_n | +1 |
| 19:19 | GeorgeSue | yes |
| 19:19 | chris | id also like to propose a motion of thanks to bob birchall at calyx for the initial draft |
| 19:19 | nengard | awesome - so we'll try to finish the Weds before the meeting - does that work? |
| 19:19 | chris_n | seconded |
| 19:19 | nengard | what date is that? |
| 19:20 | schuster | draft motion for Bob!+ |
| 19:20 | nengard | bob++ |
| 19:20 | jransom | bob++ |
| 19:20 | (i don't have a calender handy) | |
| 19:20 | slef | BobCalyx++ |
| 19:20 | chris_n | Jan 21 ?? |
| 19:20 | slef | thu 21 jan? |
| 19:20 | hdl_laptop | +1 |
| 19:21 | nengard | So Weds the 20th - is that enough time? and remember we're talking the 20th in NZ time |
| 19:21 | chris | thats the 19th for most of youse fullas |
| 19:21 | jransom | yep. Thats good. |
| 19:21 | chris_n | looks fine to me |
| 19:21 | slef | ok to me |
| 19:21 | nengard | okay - so next item on the agenda |
| 19:21 | Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. | |
| 19:21 | is Vikki here? | |
| 19:22 | jransom | no. |
| 19:22 | schuster | No but I am in her place kind of. |
| 19:22 | David Schuster | |
| 19:22 | jransom | I have apologies and a statement from her |
| 19:22 | from Vicki: I've had conversion with Joshua Ferraro at LibLime and there will be opportunity for continued discussion and negotiation. I ask for a postponement to allow negotiations to continue." | |
| 19:23 | nengard | which kind of brings us to #3 Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. |
| 19:23 | GeorgeSue | Sorry away form 18 to 2nd Feb, My apologies,, may not have coverage |
| 19:23 | thd | We should be sure to have the NZ time translated to be clear. |
| 19:23 | jransom | The 16th Jan has been requested as a postponement date |
| 19:23 | David: anthing to add? | |
| 19:23 | thd | Which negotiations are unresolved? |
| 19:24 | nengard | those to get the koha domain and trademarks transferred to HLT |
| 19:24 | schuster | No you are right on. FYI that is also the American Library Association Conference. |
| 19:24 | thd | or are we referring to LibLime still? |
| 19:24 | jransom | as Nicole said. |
| 19:25 | jdavidb | vicki++ , for having those conversations with Josh. |
| 19:25 | chris | i think if negotiations are still continuing, it is in our best interest to let them continue a bit more |
| 19:25 | nengard | okay - so does anyone want to say anything about postponing until ALA Midwinter - aka 16th of Jan |
| 19:25 | jransom | (stunned silence) |
| 19:25 | wizzyrea | I am for it |
| 19:25 | chris_n | I agree w/chris |
| 19:25 | jransom | me to |
| 19:25 | owen | +1 |
| 19:25 | thd | there is an issue in parallel |
| 19:25 | Nate | +1 |
| 19:25 | masonj | +1 |
| 19:25 | Ropuch | +1 |
| 19:25 | thd | ++ |
| 19:25 | slef | I do not support it, but will not oppose. |
| 19:25 | sekjal | +1 |
| 19:25 | GeorgeSue | me too |
| 19:26 | nengard | I'm with slef - i'll go with the majority |
| 19:26 | thd | I would like to introduce the parallel issue |
| 19:26 | nengard | k |
| 19:26 | schuster | + |
| 19:26 | nengard | thd what issue? |
| 19:26 | * chris_n | thinks it best to let LL slam the door |
| 19:26 | jransom | renaming, rebranding and relaunch with 3.2 |
| 19:26 | thd | As part of my communication with the Software Freedom Law Center ... |
| 19:27 | in the context of relicensing the wiki content the US trademark came up | |
| 19:27 | they are interested in researching the possibility of having the US trademark nullified | |
| 19:27 | jransom | :) |
| 19:28 | chris_n | nice |
| 19:28 | nengard | thd and what would that entail? |
| 19:28 | schuster | Interesting... |
| 19:28 | rhcl | ? details? we're all ears |
| 19:28 | GeorgeSue | What does that mean |
| 19:28 | thd | they also mentioned a possibility that control of the domain might be challenged independently of trademark control |
| 19:28 | slef | What does that mean? Would that leave it open to future registration, or make Koha a generic term? |
| 19:28 | * chris | hopes for the latter |
| 19:28 | chris | cos thats how it is in NZ already |
| 19:29 | thd | I wanted community approval and participation to help them with their research |
| 19:29 | jransom | Oh I'll vote a big yes |
| 19:29 | nengard | thd - what does that require from us? how do we help exactly? |
| 19:29 | * chris_n | too |
| 19:29 | nengard | i am by the way on board as well - just want to be clear on where we go next |
| 19:29 | chris_n | it can certainly provide greater leverage on all fronts |
| 19:29 | jdavidb | I would support that. It won't hurt a thing to find out the how-and-what-it-means. |
| 19:29 | thd | Well they have no background really and I did not want to act unilaterally |
| 19:30 | the only background they have is my brief verbal explanation | |
| 19:30 | nengard | thd I have some background research that I did already after the last meeting and can send that to you or to them |
| 19:30 | jransom | would love to see the word Koha treated internationally as it is in NZ |
| 19:30 | (would protect kete as well..) | |
| 19:30 | thd | I have a contact person there with whom I consulted about the wiki |
| 19:31 | slef | thd: I'd be happy for you to continue exploring this, but would like that you to "the community" in some way before acting on it. |
| 19:31 | schuster | I would also suggest that maybe their questions be written and posted on listservs/wiki so many people could respond to them with contact information? |
| 19:31 | thd | They would also of course need any information which anyone could find that might be thought of as legal grounds |
| 19:31 | chris | id agree with that |
| 19:32 | jransom | I think Brendan raised an issue once about this |
| 19:32 | thd | exactly slef, I have been very cautious because I certainly do not want to even be perceived as acting unilaterally |
| 19:32 | remember though we are only speaking about researching the possibility | |
| 19:32 | chris_n | thd: I have an email which outlines several pertinent points which could be forwarded |
| 19:33 | nengard | my suggestion on this issue is that we research between now and the new deadline - the 16th - and if negotiations go well then we can stop research - and if not we can see what is needed to move forward |
| 19:33 | how's that work for you all? | |
| 19:33 | thd | I also think that the issue is too important to leave to one set of lawyers and we should seek alternate advice via EFF for example |
| 19:34 | chris_n | EFF? |
| 19:34 | thd | Electronic Frontier Foundation |
| 19:34 | hdl_laptop | nengard++ |
| 19:34 | thd | they also have lawyers who volunteer time to free software projects |
| 19:34 | schuster | Too many lawyers creates too much confusion and who is right.??? |
| 19:35 | Nate | nicole, i agree with you, but think we should try to have as many ducks in a row as possible before the 16th |
| 19:35 | slef | The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an international non-profit advocacy and legal organization based in the United States with the stated purpose of being dedicated to preserving the right to freedom of speech, such as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in the context of today's digital age (see also digital rights)... http://a.vu/w:Electronic_Frontier_Foundation |
| 19:35 | thd | big projects like Debian SPI consult several sets of lawyers do they not slef? |
| 19:35 | slef | only one per issue, generally, I think |
| 19:35 | chris_n | imho, we should work all possible fronts at the same time to provide maximum pressure |
| 19:35 | thd | ok I stand corrected |
| 19:36 | SFLC seems enthusiastic and has a legal director who is a patent and trademarks expert | |
| 19:36 | slef | SPI has two sets of lawyers but I think they ask whoever is more available |
| 19:36 | nengard | might I jump in and remind you all about law librarians :) they too can help :) |
| 19:37 | thd | We need all the help that we can get on this issue |
| 19:37 | chris_n | thd++ |
| 19:37 | thd | Even if the trademark might not be actively used against the community at this moment there is always the uncertainty of the future |
| 19:37 | schuster | thd - we have some possible positive action with the group you are currently working with so I think it would be good to exhaust that before turning elsewhere, and not to move to far until we know what the outcome of the Jan 16th deadline is. |
| 19:38 | nengard | schuster research is always worthwhile |
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| 19:38 | richard joined #koha | |
| 19:38 | richard | hi |
| 19:38 | thd | I agree that I am corrected schuster |
| 19:38 | schuster | nengard - agreed - in all maters! |
| 19:38 | sekjal | having_more_information++ |
| 19:38 | nengard | we should know what our rights are - and I think we should see what these people have to say |
| 19:38 | jransom | protetcting the futre ++ |
| 19:39 | nengard | we can make it clear that we're in negotiations |
| 19:39 | schuster | future ++ |
| 19:39 | thd | I have very convenient access even directly to this lawyer although SFLC has been busy recently with busybox lawsuits but I do not want to be the exclusive contact person |
| 19:40 | nengard | okay - so where are we on this issue? research done in the open while negotiations continue until the 16th of Jan |
| 19:40 | chris_n | I propose that we authorize thd to continue communications with SFLC on behalf of the koha community |
| 19:40 | thd | being situated in NYC where SFLC is gives me an advantage |
| 19:40 | chris | doing_stuff_in_the_open++ |
| 19:40 | chris_n: +1 | |
| 19:40 | nengard | chris_n +1 |
| 19:40 | chris +1 | |
| 19:41 | thd | I would like to coordinate things with at least one other person for what might be necessary |
| 19:41 | Ropuch | chris_n +1 |
| 19:41 | jransom | thd: if you need anything from HLT just ask |
| 19:41 | hdl_laptop | chris_n++ chris++ |
| 19:41 | sekjal | chris_n +1 |
| 19:41 | rhcl | +1 |
| 19:41 | thd | However, I think that information could be passed openly on the mailing list unless there is some fear about some particular bit of information |
| 19:41 | schuster | thd - it would make sense for HLT to be in the loop on these discussions.. |
| 19:41 | jransom | thd: Chris C? |
| 19:42 | chris | dear god no |
| 19:42 | jransom | lol |
| 19:42 | chris | im juggling 5 million balls at the moment already |
| 19:42 | masonj | chris_n +1 |
| 19:42 | thd | nothing should be pursued without consulting HLT |
| 19:42 | jransom | but youknow stuff from early days og koha |
| 19:42 | chris | im happy to help out with historical stuff if needed |
| 19:43 | chris_n | thd: did you have anyone in mind? |
| 19:43 | schuster | As HLT is going to be the holder - it wouldn't hurt for someone jransom or GeorgeSue? to be involved to understand what the US Lawyers are saying. |
| 19:43 | thd | Each of us may have some information about historical stuff which we might have heard or discover in the public record of the mailing list etc. if we would look. |
| 19:43 | chris | but cant offer much more time than that |
| 19:43 | jransom | Schuster: nods |
| 19:44 | thd | schuster: I intend for HLT to be consulted on every step and I think that most communication can be forwarded to the mailing list |
| 19:44 | jransom | sounds excellent - mailing list for evrything wherever possible |
| 19:45 | chris | yes, i agree |
| 19:45 | chris_n | +1 |
| 19:45 | schuster | thd - I thought you were asking for another individual to be involved with your direct discussions. |
| 19:45 | nengard | +1 |
| 19:45 | hdl_laptop | +1 |
| 19:45 | masonj | +1 |
| 19:46 | chris | thd often thinks aloud, it's a process i appreciate |
| 19:46 | jransom | It should probably be from hLT since we are the parent org fr koha community |
| 19:46 | chris_n | jransom +1 |
| 19:46 | jransom | but it may not be the most useful 2nd person. |
| 19:46 | thd | We need to find anything we think might help such as statements that LibLime intended to hold assets in question for the community until a community organisation was ready etc. |
| 19:46 | GeorgeSue | HLT will help |
| 19:47 | chris_n | thd: I went through some of that a while back |
| 19:47 | schuster | If items are found where are we posting/linking/sending for future reference? |
| 19:47 | chris_n | it may be in an email or the channel log |
| 19:47 | GeorgeSue | Hlt will help where possible |
| 19:47 | thd | well GeorgeSue could be a contact person at HLT. |
| 19:47 | brendan left #koha | |
| 19:47 | brendan joined #koha | |
| 19:48 | schuster | GeorgeSue ++ if willing |
| 19:49 | thd | I would actually like a contact person at BibLibre because in addition to anyone else becuase their co-operation could be essential for any actual challenge on at least one possible point. |
| 19:49 | nengard | okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' |
| 19:49 | GeorgeSue | I think Jo should be the the contact person as I will be out of coverage |
| 19:49 | hdl_laptop | thd: you can count on me. |
| 19:49 | jransom | me too |
| 19:49 | thd | thanks hdl_laptop and jransom |
| 19:50 | nengard | great so hdl_laptop and jransom will work with thd in communicating with the lawyer and we will all share research and info on the mailing list |
| 19:50 | jransom | yes |
| 19:50 | schuster | nengard - I don't know about skipping - getting things in place physically is a good idea as well or at least an outline of a plan. |
| 19:50 | nengard | okay - so then the next agenda item is: Next issues if negotiations have concluded. |
| 19:51 | chris | well, cant really answer that |
| 19:51 | jransom | well concluded negotiations can be of 2 sorts: we have the stuff or we don't |
| 19:51 | nengard | that's what i thought :) |
| 19:51 | chris | cos negotiations might conclude in 12 different ways |
| 19:51 | or 23 | |
| 19:51 | or 431 | |
| 19:51 | nengard | hehe |
| 19:51 | chris_n | lol |
| 19:51 | nengard | okay so i repeat okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' |
| 19:52 | jransom | We are still posiitioning us incase we have to relaunch aye... |
| 19:52 | nengard | which brings us to the final agenda item of coming up with a next meeting |
| 19:52 | jransom | like grabbing wiki and bugzilla copies? |
| 19:52 | thd | One of the next issues is if the answer from LibLime is complete silence do we put up openkoha.org or some such which is where researching the trademark may become immediately important not that the presence of the trademark should stop us |
| 19:52 | chris | i think if silence is the result |
| 19:52 | we need to break the silence | |
| 19:52 | and by we, i mean libraries | |
| 19:52 | slef | openkoha is still a awful name |
| 19:53 | chris_n | libraries-break-silence++ |
| 19:53 | nengard | libraries-break-silence++++ |
| 19:53 | * chris_n | thinks they should in any case |
| 19:53 | chris | as you all know by now, im sick of being attacked when i point out things |
| 19:53 | nengard | but then again i said that already openly and was shot down by libraries |
| 19:53 | jransom | We must be seen to be actively taking positive steps to reclaim Koha for the community. I like open koha :) |
| 19:53 | thd | slef: It is not my favourite either but please win favour for a beter one |
| 19:53 | slef | thd: let's cross that bridge if we need to. |
| 19:53 | chris | and im not prepared to do it anymore |
| 19:53 | nengard | :( |
| 19:53 | masonj | i like 'openkoha' too |
| 19:53 | chris | if the libraries are not willing to back us up |
| 19:54 | thd | not prepared to do what chris? |
| 19:54 | nengard | argue for librarians |
| 19:54 | he wants them to stand up for themselves | |
| 19:54 | slef | well, one of our libraries has asked me to report what happens here |
| 19:54 | chris | what she said |
| 19:54 | jransom | I think a Liblime client problem has become a Koha community problem. |
| 19:55 | nengard | are we getting off topic - should we come up with a next meeting and then close this meeting? |
| 19:55 | chris | i think perhaps so |
| 19:55 | jransom | and LL need to be honest about problems and take steps to resolve them. |
| 19:55 | schuster | LibLime clients are trying to be legally correct in dealing with our vendor. Working in the background until Jan 16th. |
| 19:55 | nengard | okay - so do we do the first Tues of Feb at this time |
| 19:55 | schuster | Yes please. |
| 19:55 | * chris | just had to put that out there, it was making me deeply unhappy and ive resolved not to let it anymore |
| 19:55 | chris_n | feb 2+ |
| 19:56 | + | |
| 19:56 | schuster | chris ++ |
| 19:56 | jdavidb | chris++ #for all sorts of reasons. |
| 19:56 | nengard | okay so the next meeting is Tuesday, 2 February 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 |
| 19:56 | GeorgeSue | My apology |
| 19:56 | nengard | I hearby close this meeting - let the ranting begin |
| 19:56 | or continue or whatever :) | |
| 19:56 | jransom | ok. Thanks Nicole. |
| 19:56 | thanks everyone. | |
| 19:56 | thd | I think that jransom raises an important point that, if I interpret correctly, it is unrealistic to expect customers to overtly risk damaging their relationship with a company while they have an ongoing contract with the company. |
| 19:56 | chris | thanks nengard |
| 19:56 | hdl_laptop | thanks nengard |
| 19:56 | nengard | no prob all :) |
| 19:57 | schuster | But... Deadlines are Jan 16th and 20th so we'll sit on things until Feb 2nd - ?? |
| 19:57 | jdavidb | Good job, nengard. nice and quick. |
| 19:57 | Ropuch | :) |
| 19:57 | jransom | good point |
| 19:57 | chris | schuster: we can always call a special meeting if somethign happens such that one is needed |
| 19:57 | nengard | schuster - the info after the 16th can be shared on list and then what chris said |
| 19:57 | Nate | thd: isn't that a bit backwards |
| 19:58 | chris | Nate++ |
| 19:58 | masonj | nate++ lol |
| 19:58 | nengard | Nate++ |
| 19:58 | thd | Nate: Is what backwards? |
| 19:58 | Nate | I thought the customer made their vendor fear for damaging a relationship |
| 19:58 | chris_n | if expressing dissatisfaction with QOS puts relations at a risk, then the relationship was already sour |
| 19:58 | sekjal | Nate++ |
| 19:58 | thd | Nate++ |
| 19:58 | yes | |
| 19:59 | at least as it should be Nate | |
| 19:59 | schuster | OK thanks for the meeting Nicole - Feb 2nd! Looking forward to good news between now and then. Have a great day everyone off to another meeting! This one F2F! |
| 19:59 | chris_n | and "being legally correct" does not exclude the right to express dissatisfaction imho |
| 19:59 | Nate | Well, it is with some companies :) |
| 19:59 | nengard | chris_n i think you're required to express disatisfaction - otherwise how does the company know they need to fix something? |
| 20:00 | and how do others know what to expect from the company? | |
| 20:00 | chris_n | nengard: exactly ;-) |
| 20:00 | Nate | AMEN! |
| 20:00 | thd | for the immediate record my contact person at SFLC |
| 20:00 | Aaron Williamson | |
| 20:00 | slef | LMSes are mission-critical, so librarians seem to be a bit scared of upsetting them. |
| 20:00 | thd | Counsel |
| 20:00 | Software Freedom Law Center | |
| 20:00 | 1995 Broadway, 17th Fl. | |
| 20:00 | New York, NY 10023 | |
| 20:00 | (212) 461-1911 direct | |
| 20:00 | (212) 580-0898 fax | |
| 20:00 | www.softwarefreedom.org | |
| 20:00 | nengard | slef - but the thing with Koha is - if you upset the vendor you still get to use/keep the software |
| 20:00 | slef | Given the postponement, I don't think there's any harm in noting this meeting. |
| 20:01 | nengard: not LLEK... | |
| 20:01 | nengard | but the libraries who are upset don't want LLEK - they have Koha and want to keep Koha |
| 20:01 | and they're not speaking up | |
| 20:01 | thd | at least he has been the contact person about the wiki and volunteered to research the trademark issue |
| 20:01 | masonj | thd: thanks for your effort with SFLC, too |
| 20:01 | slef | yeah, that's a bit odd |
| 20:01 | nengard | they're sending me emails out of the public eye and nagging chris to do something |
| 20:01 | slef | thd: where in the namespace should the draft rules go? |
| 20:02 | en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules ? | |
| 20:04 | nengard: write a really good canned reply saying you'd love to help, but you cannot be the lone gunmen any more. | |
| 20:04 | The Lone Gunmen are a trio of fictional characters, Richard "Ringo" Langly, Melvin Frohike and John Fitzgerald Byers, who had recurring roles on The X-Files and also starred in a short-lived spin-off, also called The Lone Gunmen. The name was derived from the lone gunman theory of the John F. Kennedy assassination. http://a.vu/w:The_Lone_Gunmen | |
| 20:04 | nengard | I wrote it publically :) don't want to be a hypocrite and ask others to be public when I wouldn't :) |
| 20:05 | slef | sure, I saw that - be ready to email the link out lots too ;-) |
| 20:05 | I think I commented... quite often, you can post to blogs which I can't/won't because they discriminate against users with disabilities | |
| 20:06 | posting at the namespace location I said | |
| 20:08 | thd | slef: I am not the arbitrator of namespace rules :) |
| 20:08 | slef: just create one if you do not find one suitable | |
| 20:08 | However I can help | |
| 20:09 | I spent all of a weekend putting some things in namespaces when I could not find discussions about the foundation in one place | |
| 20:09 | they were not in fact linked in the wiki only in email messages | |
| 20:09 | slef | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]isation:hlt:rules posted |
| 20:10 | tirabo left #koha | |
| 20:10 | thd | I was so exhausted by my effort from that weekend that I neglected to note what I had done for the mailing list. |
| 20:11 | The real problem was that I had trouble initially using the correct syntax for namespaces | |
| 20:11 | slef | yeah, it's quite unlike any other wiki I've seen |
| 20:11 | thd | I kept getting pages when trying to create namespaces |
| 20:12 | Hence, my effort to describe how to do it so that it actually works | |
| 20:12 | slef | damn... when I was editing the rules for wiki markup, I remember seeing something and thinking "that looks odd" but now I can't remember what ;-) |
| 20:14 | thd | I was merely reconstituting something from KohaCon 2006 DevWeek which was apparently lost when peirrick left the community in consequence of INNEO leaving |
| 20:16 | slef | fond it in section 6 |
| 20:16 | found, even | |
| 20:16 | and another in section 5 | |
| 20:17 | chris_n | what TZ is the wiki in? |
| 20:17 | magnusenger left #koha | |
| 20:18 | slef | probably Ohio USA |
| 20:18 | no, -0800 AFAICT | |
| 20:19 | chris | its on ec2 somewhere i think |
| 20:19 | slef | It's at Spry Hosting, Seattle |
| 20:19 | chris | ahh that'd be right |
| 20:20 | slef | you know more than my traceroute ;-) |
| 20:20 | chris | :) |
| 20:20 | slef | Does it lock more nicely if you edit sections not the whole thing? |
| 20:21 | I'll come back and play again after dinner, probably | |
| 20:21 | chris | sweet thanks for doing that slef |
| 20:21 | thd | slef: yes, sections are good for avoiding locking conflicts |
| 20:21 | chris | i wonder thd do you want to email the list about the SFLC ? |
| 20:21 | slef | fbcit has it locked I think |
| 20:23 | thd | chris: I could do that immediately but I was wondering if I should wait for some answer from SFLC about they type of information which they would find helpful in case I might miss something in my first announcement which will get the most attention |
| 20:23 | chris | not sure, i think it might be good for the community to know that legal advice is being sought |
| 20:24 | thd | I agree completely |
| 20:24 | I just do not want to miss the participation of someone who would ignore everything after the first post | |
| 20:25 | chris_n | slef: unlocked now... sorry |
| 20:26 | thd | I will try to obtain an immediate answer about what might be helpful and then post what I can think of with a stay tuned message. |
| 20:26 | chris_n | slef: did you see my post about the patron card tool? |
| 20:28 | Colin left #koha | |
| 20:32 | wizzyrea | EC2 is either in US Eastern or US Pacific |
| 20:33 | (I learned that this week, aren't you glad) | |
| 20:34 | * chris_n | feels very enlightened on learning that bit of knowledge ;-) |
| 20:35 | chris | :) |
| 20:35 | wizzyrea: you should do a blog post about mpm-tik | |
| 20:35 | it would be useful for koha too | |
| 20:36 | specially for anyone running more than one koha instance on the same machine | |
| 20:36 | that way you can tighten the privileges on koha-conf.xml right up | |
| 20:36 | wizzyrea | ooh |
| 20:36 | * wizzyrea | puts that on her to do list |
| 20:36 | owen | mpm-tik? |
| 20:37 | wizzyrea | seriously, mpm-tik = WIN |
| 20:37 | chris | apache2-mpm-tik ... ill let wizzyrea explain :) |
| 20:37 | nengard | k time for me to log off - i'll probably be back - as you all know i can't stay away :) hehe |
| 20:37 | nengard left #koha | |
| 20:37 | wizzyrea | ooh, I don't really have time to explain right now owen, but ask me later, okies? |
| 20:38 | * owen | will |
| 20:40 | collum | cool! http://mpm-itk.sesse.net/ |
| 20:43 | wizzyrea | collum: I KNO!!! |
| 20:44 | it's so great. | |
| 20:44 | so. So. Great. | |
| 20:44 | The-tele joined #koha | |
| 20:45 | jdavidb left #koha | |
| 20:46 | davi | slef, I was late in the meeting because I did not know about it. Reading the log now. |
| 20:53 | joetho joined #koha | |
| 20:53 | jwagner left #koha | |
| 21:10 | schuster left #koha | |
| 21:12 | chris_n | bbl |
| 21:12 | GeorgeSue left #koha | |
| 21:12 | sekjal left #koha | |
| 21:13 | joetho left #koha | |
| 21:13 | jransom left #koha | |
| 21:14 | collum | @wunder 41017 |
| 21:14 | munin | collum: The current temperature in Taylor Mill, Taylor Mill, Kentucky is -6.1�C (4:10 PM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 28.84 in 976.5 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Watch in effect from Thursday morning through Thursday evening... |
| 21:15 | collum | snow |
| 21:20 | davi | openkoha is a bad name |
| 21:20 | very bad I would say. | |
| 21:21 | wizzyrea | @wunder 66047 |
| 21:21 | munin | wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -6.3�C (3:19 PM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Falling). |
| 21:21 | hdl_laptop left #koha | |
| 21:22 | davi | At the right time I will propose a better name |
| 21:22 | 'open' is a very bad prefix. | |
| 21:24 | collum left #koha | |
| 21:27 | rhcl | Is OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? |
| 21:28 | pianohacker | It is a bit generic, but others have used it |
| 21:32 | owen left #koha | |
| 21:32 | rhcl | Well, I certainly think it's possible to argue that we have too many Open* somethings now, but OpenKoha might indicate clearly that there is a "closed" Koha and an "open" Koha in the same sense that there is a closed Office and an Open Office. |
| 21:32 | * chilts | like Open Koha ... it's implicit of it's meaning |
| 21:32 | chilts | because of prior art |
| 21:34 | hdl_laptop joined #koha | |
| 21:34 | Ropuch | I like Open Koha too |
| 21:34 | rhcl | It might be a poor second choice, since Koha should be truly free and open as it was originally designed to be, but the only other name I like is Koala, and nobody besides me seems to like that. |
| 21:35 | Ropuch | There's Koala Player |
| 21:35 | chris | i think i have to renounce my nz citizenship if we change the name to an australian animal |
| 21:35 | rhcl | Well, there's lots of Koala bears too, but Koala ILS has a certain charm. |
| 21:35 | Ropuch | chris: ;-) |
| 21:36 | richard | aw mate, they are so cuddly :) |
| 21:36 | Ropuch | rhcl: I thinkd we should preserve "Koha" part of name |
| 21:36 | davi | rhcl, Completed the log reading |
| 21:36 | rhcl | Let's see Koala Koha? |
| 21:36 | Ropuch | Karmic Koala Koha? |
| 21:36 | ;> | |
| 21:36 | davi | OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? There are better names |
| 21:37 | What about LibreLib ? | |
| 21:37 | rhcl | Hey, how about "Lemon Koha" since there is a "Lime Koha"? |
| 21:37 | davi | OpenSource is weak |
| 21:37 | Ropuch | It's like mix of LibLime & BibLibre |
| 21:38 | davi | Free Software add the user freedom value |
| 21:38 | and LibreLib does not sound bad | |
| 21:38 | pianohacker | A bit awkward to pronounce |
| 21:38 | rhcl | Just so :) |
| 21:38 | davi | I will propose LibreLib in the next meeting |
| 21:38 | LibreLib | |
| 21:39 | rhcl | Note that many people would take to writing LibreLib as "LL" |
| 21:39 | pianohacker | Also, I am extremely confident that I would hear it said "LeeberLib" |
| 21:39 | Ropuch | davi: removing Koha from name is giving up 10 years of history and recognition |
| 21:39 | davi | That can be even a good thing |
| 21:39 | chris | yeah i will strongly resist removing koha from the name |
| 21:39 | davi | You are right Ropuch |
| 21:39 | pianohacker | Koha has, among other things, very obvious pronunciation in a lot of languages |
| 21:39 | davi | What about LibreKoha |
| 21:40 | chris | as a maori, im not having some american company removing a maori word from my usage |
| 21:40 | davi | LibreLib Koha |
| 21:40 | chilts | Open Koha is way easier |
| 21:40 | davi | LibreLib (Koha) |
| 21:40 | Ropuch | pianohacker: it sounds exactly like (he|she) loves in polish |
| 21:40 | davi | LibreLib Koha |
| 21:41 | LibreLib (Koha) | |
| 21:41 | LibreLib Koha | |
| 21:41 | Ropuch | Trying to make some asci art? ;> |
| 21:41 | davi | I do not know. I am confused |
| 21:42 | lee8buttemib_bp joined #koha | |
| 21:42 | CGI466 joined #koha | |
| 21:42 | CGI466 left #koha | |
| 21:42 | rafael joined #koha | |
| 21:43 | davi | What about |
| 21:44 | LibKoha | |
| 21:44 | ? | |
| 21:44 | or | |
| 21:44 | Lib Koha | |
| 21:44 | or | |
| 21:44 | Koha Lib | |
| 21:44 | rhcl | Tuatara? |
| 21:44 | pianohacker | not bad. In any case, I have to head off, see y'all |
| 21:44 | pianohacker left #koha | |
| 21:46 | rafael left #koha | |
| 21:49 | lee8buttemib_bp | I know I missed the IRC meeting can I get the link to the archives chat from someone? |
| 21:52 | davi | I can send you it. |
| 21:52 | Can you let me know your email in private? | |
| 21:52 | lee8buttemib_bp | thanks lee8phillips2gmail.com |
| 21:53 | davi | processing ... |
| 21:58 | Sent | |
| 21:58 | chris | http://stats.workbuffer.org/ir[…]10-01-05#i_368182 |
| 21:58 | davi | Who you work for lee8buttemib_bp ? |
| 21:58 | lee8buttemib_bp | many thanks |
| 21:59 | chris | its all publicly logged |
| 21:59 | lee8buttemib_bp | Butte Public Library |
| 21:59 | davi | ack |
| 21:59 | lee8buttemib_bp | hi Chris |
| 21:59 | long time no chat | |
| 22:00 | thd | hdl_laptop: I just had a conversation with the lawyer from SFLC who indicates that a message on the mailing list about researching the trademark / domain issue would be likely to be construed as antagonistic and harmful to the possibility of an easy painless resolution of the issue. |
| 22:02 | jransom joined #koha | |
| 22:02 | thd | If anyone thinks that it would be a mistake to take that legal advice against an announcement about legal research at this point on the mailing list please let me know. |
| 22:03 | chris | ill defer to the lawyers on that |
| 22:03 | thd | jransom: do you see my two messages above? |
| 22:03 | chris | course, this is all publicly logged anyway |
| 22:03 | thd | chris: I explained that to the lawyer. |
| 22:03 | Nate | goodnight #Koha |
| 22:03 | Nate left #koha | |
| 22:04 | thd | chris: There is an issue of degree of forwardness and the interpretation of hostility despite the best possible research only explanation. |
| 22:04 | chris | fair enough |
| 22:05 | thd | jransom: are you there? |
| 22:05 | tirabo joined #koha | |
| 22:07 | jransom left #koha | |
| 22:10 | slef | chris_n: not yet (post about patron card tool) |
| 22:18 | thd: I have no problem with not posting this yet. The reasons seem similar to why I thought we might not want to compile notes of the meeting yet. | |
| 22:19 | thd | slef: yes I had imagined that had been your reasoning about the notes but it was not perfectly clear to me. |
| 22:20 | slef | well, that and not tipping them off cheaply |
| 22:20 | chris | anything you guys dont want in the public log |
| 22:20 | prefix with [off] | |
| 22:20 | otherwise it all ends up there | |
| 22:21 | just fyi | |
| 22:21 | slef | in line with http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writi[…]adows#Information |
| 22:21 | thd | chris does off allow everyone logged in to see it but avoid logging? |
| 22:21 | chris_n2 | yes |
| 22:21 | chris | yes |
| 22:22 | slef | chris: I didn't realise that. Something earlier today makes more sense now. |
| 22:22 | chris_n2 | thd: see http://stats.workbuffer.org/ir[…]10-01-05#i_368756 |
| 22:22 | slef | I'm not particularly bothered to hide the TM questions, but I don't see any reason to actively publicise them just now. |
| 22:22 | chris_n2 | where my comment with [off] does not appear |
| 22:22 | slef | biab |
| 22:24 | thd | |off| chris_n2: I think that we should be as public as we reasonably can and I would only favour using off for a meeting if there would be a direct and immediate threat to the community where we could not respond properly in the open |
| 22:24 | slef | thd: square brackets [] not bars || |
| 22:37 | chris | off is more use when doing things like email addresses |
| 22:37 | or phone numbers | |
| 22:37 | that you dont want in the log | |
| 22:37 | imho | |
| 22:43 | brendan | I feel like I'm reading the movie airplane |
| 22:43 | chris_n2 | lol |
| 22:43 | brendan | [over] |
| 22:45 | chris | hehe |
| 22:49 | slef | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes10feb02 created |
| 22:50 | chris | thanks slef |
| 22:50 | slef | I'll read back the logs later and see if the agenda should change, but please beat me to it. |
| 23:30 | lee8buttemib_bp left #koha | |
| 23:42 | bebbi left #koha | |
| 23:57 | rhcl left #koha |
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