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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | thd | ftherese: The primary author would go in 700 |
| 00:00 | ftherese: The secondary author in 701 | |
| 00:00 | ftherese | all the secondary authors would go in 701 |
| 00:00 | and they would remain separate | |
| 00:00 | or would I join all the secondary authors, by using the "join" feature | |
| 00:02 | thd | ftherese: yes I failed to remember UNIMARC correctly |
| 00:02 | ftherese: MARC 21 is simpler on the treatment of author fields only. | |
| 00:02 | ftherese: The primary author would go in 700 | |
| 00:03 | ftherese: The secondary author in 702 | |
| 00:03 | ftherese | what about 701? |
| 00:04 | thd | ftherese: 701 is when you cannot establish a primary author |
| 00:04 | ftherese | ahh got it |
| 00:05 | thd | ftherese: As you said all tertiary, etc. authors would be added to repeated 702 fields |
| 00:05 | ftherese | ok |
| 00:05 | then would those fields be "joined" | |
| 00:05 | thd | ftherese: 7XX is for the official name. |
| 00:06 | ftherese: The joined representation transcribed from the book would go in 200 $c | |
| 00:07 | ftherese: 200 $c might have "by T S Eliot" exactly as the words appear in the book. | |
| 00:07 | ftherese | ah |
| 00:07 | what about collection | |
| 00:07 | I see 410 | |
| 00:07 | where does the number go? | |
| 00:09 | thd | ftherese: 410 $h is for the number of a series |
| 00:10 | ftherese | so... for a collection like |
| 00:10 | Sources Chretiennes | |
| 00:10 | with lots of numbers in the collection | |
| 00:11 | thd | ftherese: do you mean a regularly issued periodical or a series of books? |
| 00:11 | ftherese | series of books |
| 00:11 | thd | ftherese: 410 is for books |
| 00:11 | gmcharlt | thd: note change I made to agenda for tomorrow |
| 00:12 | hugo_ | Hello everyone |
| 00:12 | thd | gmcharlt: I suggested that you change the agenda |
| 00:12 | gmcharlt: I just copied the previous agenda and simplified it. | |
| 00:12 | gmcharlt | yep, I'm just telling you that I have in fact made a change |
| 00:13 | hugo_ | I wonder if I might ask some questions before beginning an install...? |
| 00:14 | I've spent quite some time learning that I don't know enough to get Koha to install on a Mac. Frustrating, and I'd like to keep trying... but I'm running up against a deadline. | |
| 00:14 | chris | mason: are you around? |
| 00:15 | hugo_: mason has been doing some installs on macs | |
| 00:15 | if you can catch him, he might be some help | |
| 00:15 | @seen mason | |
| 00:15 | munin | chris: mason was last seen in #koha 1 day, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <mason> fyi: use zebra, nozeb has old functionallity gaps, and no-one is working on fixing them |
| 00:15 | thd | ftherese: if you have many numbers for a book series then you might create a separate record for each with a 410 field to designate the series which they all have in common. |
| 00:16 | hugo_ | ah - but you see, with the deadline, I'm "giving up" and going to go with Debian |
| 00:16 | thought I'd love to get the Mac working later... | |
| 00:16 | chris | right, following the INSTALL.debian-lenny guide is probably your best bet then |
| 00:17 | hugo_ | that is my hope! |
| 00:17 | a client has donated an old dell (they bought a Mac), and I'd like to know if it's up to the job - | |
| 00:17 | thd | hugo_: OSX is not worth the effort unless you have a great amount of time. |
| 00:17 | hugo_ | it's a 3.2 GHz P4, with 1 GB RAM |
| 00:17 | my guess is that's plenty - am I right? | |
| 00:18 | chris | how big a library are you going to be running? |
| 00:18 | hugo_ | very small local library. One branch. |
| 00:18 | I'd guess a couple thousand books, tops | |
| 00:18 | maybe 500 patrons | |
| 00:18 | chris | yeah taht should be fine |
| 00:18 | hugo_ | cool, thanks |
| 00:21 | My second question is, do I simply go here: http://www.debian.org/distrib/ - or are there choices I need to make to get the right thing? | |
| 00:21 | thd | ftherese: In addition to 995 $b, Propriétaire, 'items.homebranch each item should have 995 $c dépositaire permanent, items.holdingbranch even if the branch codes are the same for both. |
| 00:23 | ftherese | so both 995$b and $c need to have the branch/library code in them? |
| 00:23 | thd | ftherese: One of the first tasks is to define the Library branches and branch codes which can be only one main library but an important step. |
| 00:23 | chris | hugo_: thats the right starting point, and go for stable (lenny) |
| 00:23 | thd | ftherese: yes |
| 00:23 | hugo_ | (Debian is new to me too - I use Mac OS X day to day |
| 00:24 | thd | ftherese: Home : Administration : Libraries and Groups is the path for defining libraries and their associated codes. |
| 00:25 | ftherese | right... I've done that once before |
| 00:25 | what about pages? | |
| 00:26 | thd | ftherese: 215 is for physical description such as number of pages or number of volumes in a set. |
| 00:30 | hugo_ | I'd like to get the install started tonight. I notice that the link here http://kohaindia.org/debian-lenny/ says to download the DVD's. If instead I follow this link http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and do the net install, am I starting off on the wrong foot? |
| 00:30 | chris | nope |
| 00:30 | thd | ftherese: The introduction to MARC cataloguing at http://libraries.idaho.gov/page/able is very easy but it is MARC 21 based. |
| 00:31 | chris | if you have a decent net connection, the net install is fine |
| 00:31 | thd | ftherese: You would need to find the UNIMARC equivalent. |
| 00:31 | hugo_ | Cool - thank you. |
| 00:33 | thd | ftherese: I have a bibliography for learning library cataloguing and classification at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]tion:bibliography |
| 00:33 | ftherese: Unfortunately, I have not included any UNIMARC material. | |
| 00:33 | ftherese | :( |
| 00:34 | not your fault | |
| 00:34 | thd | ftherese: I have poor access to UNIMARC material in the US except mostly for what is available electronically. |
| 00:35 | ftherese | no worries |
| 00:35 | you are being a big help | |
| 00:36 | mason | hugo_ , get a debian koha running 1st, then attempt your OSX install.. |
| 00:36 | thd | ftherese: I only know of the very complete UNIMARC texts. not the friendly tutorials |
| 00:36 | ftherese | ok our call number (cotation) system looks like this: |
| 00:37 | A - ## - AAA - ## -- * | |
| 00:37 | thd | ftherese: If you ask on the French Koha mailing list, I suspect that some people could direct you to a helpful guides for UNIMARC. |
| 00:37 | ftherese | I've got to split that up into the options they have |
| 00:37 | thd | ftherese: Why would you split it? |
| 00:38 | ftherese | it is already split up |
| 00:38 | I could just put them all as 852$j | |
| 00:38 | thd | ftherese: Then you merely need to combine it into a single string |
| 00:39 | hugo_ | yes - that my plan mason - I just want to get it running - see that I can do it. |
| 00:39 | thd | ftherese: 852 is not supported in Koha for items management. |
| 00:39 | mason | if you have problems with your debian install, everyone can help you, |
| 00:39 | hugo_ | mason: thank you. Downloading netinstall of Debian now |
| 00:39 | mason | then use your working debian install to help set up your OSX koha |
| 00:40 | thd | ftherese: one day in the future it will be but for now we have 995 for Koha UNIMARC holdings default and 952 for Koha MARC 21 holdings default. |
| 00:41 | mason | i got my OSX 10.4 running the latest dev version of koha3 only 2 weeks ago.. , it took *lots* of experimenting |
| 00:41 | thd | ftherese: Use 995 $k which is defined for items.itemcallnumber . |
| 00:43 | ftherese: You could populate 852 but unless you modify the Koha MARC bibliographic frameworks to use the field in the record editor, anything which you add to 852 will be lost upon editing the record with the internal Koha record editor.. | |
| 00:44 | hugo_ | mason: I was trying on 10.5 just about all summer |
| 00:44 | thd | ftherese: That is a very important point to know what is defined as appearing in the record editor including which subfields within a field |
| 00:46 | ftherese: You can change the behaviour but so that something will appear but if you do not you will loose the data stored in the subfield for any subfield which does not appear in the record editor. | |
| 00:47 | chris_n2 | mason++ |
| 00:47 | * chris_n2 | considers entering the Google Lunar X PRIZE |
| 00:47 | thd | ftherese: There are only a few hidden ID fields which are an exception to the risk of losing data if you do not set the frameworks properly. |
| 00:47 | chris_n2 | and writing the software in perl... :-S |
| 00:48 | thd | ftherese: The MARC 21 and English UNIMARC frameworks are already set up to preserve data which you ad for what is defined in those frameworks. |
| 00:49 | ftherese: The English UNIMARC framework is however not well tested to my knowledge and I only partially edited someone else's initial work on that framework. | |
| 00:50 | brendan | ha thanks chris_n2 |
| 00:50 | needed a moment of distraction and that is perfect | |
| 00:50 | chris_n2 | brendan: $30 million is very tempting... |
| 00:50 | brendan | yup |
| 00:51 | think I have an new company mission :) | |
| 00:51 | chris_n2 | hehe |
| 00:51 | brendan | build robot send to space -- sound good |
| 00:54 | thd | ftherese: There is a table for possible values for hidden in the popup help linked from the '?' help link in the upper right corner of the subfields editor in the bibliographic frameworks editor. |
| 00:59 | ftherese: Using the 'hidden' values for the bibliographic frameworks and other values for subfields, you can control how the record editor functions. | |
| 01:00 | ftherese | ok... I'll take a look at that... Right now I am writing a function to concatenate my call numbers |
| 01:00 | thd | brendan: Who is offering the $30 million? |
| 01:01 | brendan | thd: http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/ |
| 01:01 | thd | brendan: Oh yes, most participants are spending far more than that to compete. |
| 01:02 | brendan: The robot part confused me about which contest it was. | |
| 01:02 | chris_n2 | ok brendan... the registration is a mere $30K |
| 01:03 | after Jan 1, 2010, it jumps to $50K | |
| 01:03 | * chris_n2 | 's wallet is smoking :-) |
| 01:04 | brendan | more fun to watch :) |
| 01:04 | thd | brendan: There are much less expensive contests with large prizes |
| 01:04 | brendan: There are also much larger prizes. | |
| 01:05 | brendan | cool -- enjoyed looking at the site -- was never serious :) |
| 01:05 | thd | brendan: Solve the carbon sequestration problem and Richard Branson will give you a billion or some such sum. |
| 01:05 | chris_n2 | back to reality now :-P |
| 01:06 | brendan | yeah -- my wife is always interested in some of the "open questions" in mathematics |
| 01:07 | with the last one solved by a recloose in Russian, who never collected the prize | |
| 01:08 | * thd | is off to perform his civic duty |
| 01:08 | * chris_n2 | participates in the Mersenne prime search (http://mersenne.org) |
| 01:10 | thd is now known as thd-away | |
| 01:10 | chris_n2 | there's a cool $150K for the first prime with at least 10,000,000 digits |
| 01:10 | or at least a part thereof | |
| 01:23 | brendan | cya all in a bit #koha |
| 01:30 | chris_n2 | does this '__PACKAGE__->foo_class('Package::foo');' make foo class a part of the __PACKAGE__ class? |
| 01:33 | brendan left #koha | |
| 01:34 | hugo_ left #koha | |
| 01:38 | brendan joined #koha | |
| 01:44 | brendan | evening #koha |
| 02:06 | hugo left #koha | |
| 02:06 | gmcharlt left #koha | |
| 02:23 | Jo joined #koha | |
| 02:23 | brendan | hi Jo |
| 02:24 | Jo | hi Brendan |
| 02:24 | afternoon all | |
| 02:24 | Brendan: want to see an example of Koha drawing in results from Kete: http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.[…]q=maori+battalion | |
| 02:25 | brendan | cool |
| 02:25 | I was looking at your kete earlier | |
| 02:25 | enjoying the artwork of wendy | |
| 02:25 | Jo | it is nice |
| 02:25 | a real treasure | |
| 02:25 | brendan | really cool |
| 02:27 | I also have fun looking at your site -- I seem to learn something everytime (that means a good site in my mind) | |
| 02:28 | Jo | hehe |
| 02:28 | gmcharlt joined #koha | |
| 02:29 | Jo | i have been using kete as a consultation tool too - on visioning libraries of the future: http://kete.library.org.nz/sit[…]ary-services-2030 |
| 02:29 | brendan | cool - i will read about it |
| 02:30 | Jo | so using it to gather up research around the topic which i want to keep on hand and share, and discuss. the pest analysis is being carried out among a bunch of us - the wiki side of kete has not really been explored much by us yet. |
| 02:30 | * chris_n2 | greets gmcharlt |
| 02:31 | Jo | still working out how to maximise the power of kete |
| 03:20 | Amit joined #koha | |
| 03:21 | Amit | hi chris, brendan |
| 03:21 | good morning #koha | |
| 03:25 | chris_n2 | g'morning Amit... g'night #koha |
| 03:25 | brendan | hi Amit |
| 03:31 | Jo | hi amit |
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| 04:16 | SelfishMan | Is it just me or are people multiplying in ihere? |
| 04:32 | greenmang0 joined #koha | |
| 04:53 | Jo left #koha | |
| 05:14 | brendan | later all |
| 05:15 | @later tell brendan - you got some things to remember | |
| 05:15 | munin | brendan: The operation succeeded. |
| 05:15 | brendan | cya all later |
| 05:15 | brendan left #koha | |
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| 06:32 | nicomo | bonjour koha |
| 06:48 | Ropuch | Good morning |
| 06:49 | |Lupin| joined #koha | |
| 06:50 | |Lupin| | good day / eening all |
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| 07:49 | |Lupin| | chris_n: ahi |
| 07:49 | oops | |
| 07:49 | chris: around ? | |
| 07:54 | hdl_laptop | hi |
| 07:54 | |Lupin|: | |
| 07:59 | audun joined #koha | |
| 08:01 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: ? |
| 08:01 | hdl_laptop | was just to say hi |
| 08:03 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: ok, sorry |
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| 08:10 | kf | good morning all |
| 08:14 | |Lupin| | guten morgen kf |
| 08:16 | ftherese | morning :) |
| 08:19 | thd-away is now known as thd | |
| 08:22 | |Lupin| | hi ftherese |
| 08:26 | thd | ftherese: I had forgotten that the recent UNIMARC documentation linked from BNF has no helpful explanation nor examples. |
| 08:26 | ftherese | that's ok |
| 08:27 | thd | ftherese: You should check the old UNIMARC concise bibliographic manual, http://archive.ifla.org/VI/3/p1996-1/sec-uni.htm |
| 08:27 | ftherese | I am now dealing with another problem... I think that the MarcEdit must have limit as to how many lines it can handle per file that it must translate |
| 08:27 | thd | ftherese: 225 and not 410 is the primary series field in UNIMARC. |
| 08:28 | ftherese | It seems that the logic there is to use the lower number whenever possible |
| 08:29 | thd | ftherese: I had never thought about that but you may have found a good rule |
| 08:30 | ftherese: 410 is for the authority controlled name of a series if the form transcribed from the work being catalogued does not use the standard series name. | |
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| 08:34 | thd | ftherese: Actually, the notes seem to indicate to use both 225 and 410 in all cases except when there is no standardised name for the for the series established. |
| 08:35 | francharb left #koha | |
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| 08:42 | paul_p | @tell owen about: sometimes misses the ability in 2.x to search a specific MARC field...but wouldn't give up Zebra to get it back |
| 08:42 | munin | paul_p: Error: I haven't seen owen, I'll let you do the telling. |
| 08:51 | ftherese left #koha | |
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| 09:36 | amadan | Need help, installed koha but the search engine seems not to bring up any items stored in oha |
| 09:36 | koha not oha | |
| 09:37 | kf | amadan: have you installed koha with zebra? |
| 09:37 | amadan | does anyone know where i can get training on koha either online on face to face? |
| 09:37 | yes i have | |
| 09:38 | i installed koha with zebra | |
| 09:38 | kf | amadan: you probably need to index your data and zebrasrv must be running |
| 09:38 | amadan | any pointers to that? |
| 09:39 | kf | which os are u using? |
| 09:39 | amadan | I mean how do i do that? |
| 09:39 | fedora 10 | |
| 09:40 | kf | I have only done it on my test laptop and I am not using cronjobs there... perhaps someone else can help out? |
| 09:41 | amadan | u can share your experience |
| 09:41 | perhaps might help | |
| 09:42 | kf | I think it was explained in one of the installation manuals for ubuntu. hm. |
| 09:43 | amadan | u hv the link |
| 09:43 | kf | you must reindex your records with a cronjob every x minutes - rebuild_zebra.pl and zebrasrv must be running |
| 09:45 | perhaps this will help: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]uide_ubuntu_hardy | |
| 09:45 | amadan | thks man |
| 09:50 | nicomo | http://pepys.biblibre.com/dol_[…]soc.php?socid=116 |
| 09:50 | sorry, wrong channel | |
| 09:51 | hdl_laptop | chris around ? |
| 09:53 | amadan | no worries |
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| 10:31 | Jpr | hey all, I have a question on Zebra character sets in Koha: |
| 10:33 | in the /etc/koha/zebradb there are various .chr files (zebra character set files), and I'm not sure which one applies to searches in Koha: | |
| 10:34 | is it word-phrase-utf.chr that is in /etc/koha/zebradb/etc or one of the sort-string-utf.chr in ...zebradb/lang_defs/... | |
| 10:34 | ? | |
| 10:39 | Jpr left #koha | |
| 10:45 | hdl_laptop | sort applies to sorting |
| 10:46 | and word to query and indexing | |
| 10:54 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop or fredericd: for a field not to be indexed by zebra, is it enough to comment it in records.abs, or is there something else to take care of ? |
| 10:55 | hdl_laptop | it is enough. |
| 10:55 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: ok, thanks |
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| 11:20 | |Lupin| | isn't there a news system somewhere in Koha ? |
| 11:20 | so that librarians can post news to the OPAC... ? | |
| 11:24 | hdl_laptop | |Lupin|: yes there is. |
| 11:24 | It is in Tools | |
| 11:30 | thd | kf: are you there? |
| 11:32 | kf | thd: reading your mail right now |
| 11:35 | thd: I just wondered if the bug is still there, I did some testing for z39.50 with marc21 from our union catalog today, I got a field called LOK, which was (of course) not defined in the framework, but got saved in xml in import_records | |
| 11:35 | thd | kf: yes that was my question for you |
| 11:35 | kf: how had you been importing data? | |
| 11:36 | kf | thd: I basically finished German translation for bd yesterday, but I set many markers, becaue I have no translation for all those obsolete fields |
| 11:36 | thd | :) |
| 11:36 | audun | So I've managed to import 5000 marc records from an msaccess db. Trouble is, none of them contain embeded items. Is there some way to do a bulk item creation? |
| 11:36 | thd | Real libraries still have records with the obsolete fields |
| 11:37 | kf | thd: I think we used all of them, first bulk, but also staged because we migrated bibliographic information from union catalog and item information from ms access (creating very basic records, overlayed by union catalog records later) |
| 11:37 | thd: yes, but I think I will leave them untranslated | |
| 11:37 | thd | audun: start again and add your items |
| 11:38 | audun: add your items to the bibliographic record set before importing | |
| 11:38 | audun: there is no effective feature that you imagine | |
| 11:38 | kf | audun: thd is right, this should be the easiest way |
| 11:39 | thd | kf: so you first started with bulkmarcimport.pl ? |
| 11:39 | kf | thd: I think we need to add all $0 and all $w, and some new fields? |
| 11:39 | thd | kf: and bulkauthimport.pl ? |
| 11:40 | audun | thd: So I have to manually add items to each record? woah |
| 11:40 | kf | thd: yes, and we will use staged marc import now and bulkauthimport to update data weekly from union catalog, nightly once we have an automated solution |
| 11:41 | thd | kf: I think that if you use the internal Koha record editor to edit your records, you will still loose data for undefined subfields. |
| 11:41 | kf: The command line scripts are safe for importing. | |
| 11:42 | kf: Using the internal record editor is the big risk. | |
| 11:42 | kf | thd: I will be on vacation for the next 2 days, but I think we should test if the bug is still there |
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| 11:42 | kf | thd: anyway the marc21 frameworks should be updated, but I was not sure how to start with it |
| 11:42 | thd | kf: the Z39.50 client changed 3 years ago so I had forgotten that the issue is probably fixed for Z39.50. |
| 11:43 | kf: there is an SQL file or a set of them but I have already done most of the work. | |
| 11:43 | CGI043 left #koha | |
| 11:44 | thd | kf: I need to check the items fields for some changes so that the default framework would not necessarily break things. |
| 11:44 | kf | there are some fields not documented in marc21 I think but used by dnb and union catalogs |
| 11:44 | 689 | |
| 11:44 | schlagwortketten (subject chains? ) | |
| 11:44 | thd | kf: Oh yes |
| 11:45 | kf: We should make a list of those. | |
| 11:45 | kf: Everyone should have them available in all languages for anything major. | |
| 11:46 | kf: I have special fields used by OCLC and RLIN (now part of OCLC) included in the frameworks. | |
| 11:46 | kf | thd: ok, I just wondered if its ok to include them |
| 11:47 | thd | kf: Definitely. |
| 11:47 | kf | thd: I will ask my colleague about a list, she is the real export and was involved in "mab2 unification" |
| 11:47 | thd | kf: It would be good to have a list of sources of documentation for major uses which are not part of the official standard. |
| 11:48 | kf | thd: im just the one to teach koha - because koha is the first ILS that will use marc21 in our consortia |
| 11:48 | 689 is on dnb web site I think, but probably only in german | |
| 11:49 | audun | thd: How would I go about adding those items? |
| 11:49 | thd | kf: Well we should include a link to the website in a note for the frameworks. |
| 11:49 | audun: Sorry, what format are your items in currently? | |
| 11:51 | kf | thd: I think this is no problem. how to proceed? I can do some testing with staged import / z39.50 next week and find out about 689 and similar fields. |
| 11:51 | thd | audun: From what automation system are you migrating? |
| 11:51 | audun | Migrating from an ms access database |
| 11:52 | kf | thd: what was your source for the work you did on mab2 unification? |
| 11:52 | audun | using marcedit |
| 11:52 | thd | kf: I think that Z39.50 is safe now and I merely forgot about the fact. |
| 11:52 | kf | audun: marc21? you need to add 952 fields, its repeatable, one for each item |
| 11:53 | thd | kf: The web based import from a file and the internal record editor are the risks. |
| 11:53 | audun: What is your previous ILS? | |
| 11:54 | audun | kf: Hmm..I have. must have done something wrong. I have mapped the acquisition number from the source db to 952$p |
| 11:54 | kf | thd: I can test that, but need to finish some other things today, so I can tell you next week |
| 11:55 | audun: you need a little more, item type, home and holding branch, according to your configuration in Koha | |
| 11:56 | audun | kf: right..so i -do- have to add it manually then |
| 11:56 | thd | audun: 952 $p is for barcode by default. |
| 11:56 | kf | audun: I think you can use marcedit, when you already have fields for accession number |
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| 11:58 | thd | kf: my source for MAB2 unification was merely the Library of Congress update to MARC 21. |
| 11:58 | kf | audun: did you use bulkimport or staged import? you can reimport your data with staged import, if you have a good matchkey, just adding the items and leave the records as they are |
| 11:58 | audun | Used staged import |
| 11:58 | thd | kf: Library of Congress is the official maintenance agency for MARC 21. |
| 12:03 | kf | hm lunch time now - colleagues are waiting. will be back in about half an hour. |
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| 12:08 | thd | kf: http://www.loc.gov/cds/PDFdown[…]s/marc/index.html |
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| 12:11 | thd | audun: whether you can reimport without purging your records in Koha or not, you would still not to create items fields within the bibliographic record for each item. |
| 12:11 | audun: Are you using MARC 21? | |
| 12:12 | audun: Are you using NORMARC or BSMARC? | |
| 12:12 | audun | marc21 |
| 12:13 | thd | audun: So if MARC 21 then create items with repeated 952 fields in the bibliographic records for each item in the bibliographic record. |
| 12:14 | audun | hmm..thanks. I'll give it a try |
| 12:15 | thd | audun: Match your data to the values for 952 described in http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]ework_DEFAULT.sql |
| 12:16 | audun: Be certain to populate 952 $a and $b with a code for the library or branch. | |
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| 12:21 | audun | well, as that data does not exist yet, I suppose I have to add it to the source db before using marcedit |
| 12:30 | thd: or is there some clever way to avoid having to do that? | |
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| 12:38 | |Lupin| | hdl_laptop: re:news: thanks |
| 12:38 | hi Jane | |
| 12:38 | jwagner | Good morning |Lupin| |
| 12:39 | audun | nevermind, thd. Found it :) |
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| 12:56 | jdavidb | hello, #koha |
| 13:00 | |Lupin| | hi jdavidb |
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| 13:17 | chris_n | g'morning #koha |
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| 13:39 | chris_n | your up early brendan |
| 13:39 | hi owen | |
| 13:39 | brendan | morning |
| 13:39 | just got woken up by some weird noises outside | |
| 13:39 | can't fall back to sleep -- so I'm starting the day :) | |
| 13:39 | chris_n | ouch |
| 13:39 | brendan | how you doing chris_n |
| 13:40 | chris_n | great after I got the first cup of coffee down :-) |
| 13:40 | brendan | ah... good reminder |
| 13:40 | * chris_n | lets his dog run interference on outside noises |
| 13:40 | * brendan | off to go make some coffee |
| 13:41 | * chris_n | hands brendan some fresh grind |
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| 13:50 | amadan | where can i download koha staff client |
| 13:51 | * owen__ | appears to be multiplying |
| 13:52 | Colin | There is no separate staff client. Koha is a web based application and you use a browser to access it |
| 13:52 | Nate joined #koha | |
| 13:53 | amadan | How does a user access it then? |
| 13:53 | Colin | The staff client is set up on a separte virtual host. By deault port 8080 |
| 13:54 | Nate | good morning #koha! |
| 13:55 | amadan | Do i have to do another setup for the staff client or it install automatically after the initial install |
| 13:56 | sorry i'm a newbie | |
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| 14:00 | owen joined #koha | |
| 14:02 | amadan | Does anyone know where i can get training on koha administratio and installation? |
| 14:03 | chris_n | amadan: there are quite a few companies which provide services such as training, etc. for Koha |
| 14:05 | amadan | anyone in mind? I'll really prefer if it was online |
| 14:08 | chris_n | check out http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support (fwiw, I would not base any aspect of my decision on the order of the list) |
| 14:08 | owen__ left #koha | |
| 14:09 | amadan | kool thks man |
| 14:11 | kf | amadan: and the list is not complete |
| 14:12 | collum joined #koha | |
| 14:12 | amadan | well, i live in Ghana trying to install koha for my uni |
| 14:13 | its installed but i have some hitches | |
| 14:13 | hdl_laptop | amadan: some ppl installed Koha in Mali |
| 14:13 | brendan left #koha | |
| 14:13 | amadan | really? |
| 14:13 | any links | |
| 14:13 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 14:16 | hdl_laptop | No. But I know the person who did it. |
| 14:16 | I could put you in contact with them... | |
| 14:16 | (I trained him in English, so he should be able to give some hints ;) ) | |
| 14:17 | amadan | gr8 stuff will be grateful so much |
| 14:17 | gr8 stuff man | |
| 14:18 | chris_n | amadan: are you near Accra? |
| 14:18 | amadan | am in Accra |
| 14:18 | been here b4 | |
| 14:19 | * chris_n | has a friend about an hour or so out of Accra |
| 14:19 | amadan | i c |
| 14:20 | chris_n | I hope to visit sometime |
| 14:20 | Amit left #koha | |
| 14:20 | amadan | ur welcome anytime |
| 14:22 | hdl, how about the link | |
| 14:26 | with Mali | |
| 14:29 | O:-) | |
| 14:32 | or alternatively you can redo the training with me;-) | |
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| 14:37 | hdl_laptop | amadan: see private message |
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| 14:46 | * chris_n | wonders if brendan found the coffee pot |
| 14:46 | brendan | I made two espresso shots |
| 14:46 | * brendan | is flying while typing |
| 14:46 | chris_n | hehe |
| 14:46 | espresso++ | |
| 14:47 | brendan | espresso++ |
| 14:47 | chris_n | @karma expresso |
| 14:47 | munin | chris_n: expresso has neutral karma. |
| 14:47 | chris_n | wow |
| 14:47 | opps | |
| 14:47 | @karma espresso | |
| 14:47 | munin | chris_n: Karma for "espresso" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2. |
| 14:47 | brendan | :) |
| 14:47 | Nate joined #koha | |
| 14:47 | chris_n | hi Nate |
| 14:47 | brendan | wb Nater |
| 14:48 | Nate | hi everyone |
| 14:48 | chris_n | ok, back to patroncard stuff |
| 14:48 | jwagner | Question about indexing and matching rules -- I keep coming back to this every so often, but haven't found a good solution yet. If the ISBN or whatever field isn't exactly identical, a MARC import doesn't find the match. For example, ISBNs of 9780515147001 (pbk.) and 9780515147001 ; (note pbk and extra semicolon respectively). Isn't there any way to structure the indexes or the rules to make these match? |
| 14:48 | hdl joined #koha | |
| 14:48 | jwagner | I tried some tweaking of the 020 index, but haven't been successful yet. |
| 14:54 | chris_n | jwagner: perhaps the zebra syntax has something similar to sql 'like' rather than '='? |
| 14:55 | jwagner | I'm looking at the ImportBatch.pm file, which is where the matching seems to take place, with that possibility in mind, but so far I haven't deciphered the code enough to see if that's possible. |
| 14:55 | * chris_n | takes a quick look |
| 14:55 | jwagner | I'm looking at the GetImportRecordMatches function, I think. |
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| 14:57 | hdl | chris_n it has : you can use rtrn and ltrn for that. |
| 14:57 | chris_n | at that point it appears that the matching is done |
| 14:57 | tnx hdl | |
| 14:58 | jwagner | There are a couple of lines back in tools/manage-marc-import.pl that might be the point -- $new_matcher_id eq $current_matcher_id |
| 14:58 | chris_n | jwagner: is this an import operation? |
| 14:59 | jwagner | Yes -- frequent cases where a MARC import doesn't match an existing record, and the ISBNs aren't absolutely identical (i.e., extra characters in the ISBN). |
| 14:59 | chris_n | ahh |
| 15:00 | jwagner | I've poked at this at intervals for months, & never found a good solution. But there has to be a way to do it properly (she said optimistically). |
| 15:01 | amadan left #koha | |
| 15:04 | schuster | jwagner - are you running 3.2? |
| 15:04 | plano ISD sponsored some work on ISBN matching/loading that gmcharlt put together... | |
| 15:05 | jwagner | schuster, different systems at different levels of 3.01.00.0xx |
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| 15:05 | schuster | He had some type of algorithm that stripped "extra" characters when matching but left the characters on the MARC existing and incoming. |
| 15:05 | jwagner | That sounds like what I need. |
| 15:05 | schuster | I don't know if the ISBN matching rules were part of the "patch" release or the 3.2 release. |
| 15:05 | chris_n | a regex in the proper place would work |
| 15:05 | schuster | We have not had issues since we did this development. |
| 15:06 | jwagner | chris_n, a regex such as stripping out everything that's not numeric? |
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| 15:07 | chris_n | jwanger: right |
| 15:08 | jwagner | schuster, do you know if that feature is backported for 3.01, or only in 3.2? |
| 15:08 | schuster | Sorry you need to check with gmcharlt |
| 15:09 | jwagner | OK, thanks. gmcharlt, you online? |
| 15:11 | chris_n | jwanger: BatchFindBibDuplicates may be your function |
| 15:12 | jwagner | chris_n, that looks like the right place. |
| 15:13 | chris_n | then get_matches in Matcher.pm |
| 15:13 | line 654 | |
| 15:15 | perhaps in the first foreach loop | |
| 15:15 | it appears to build the query that determines matches | |
| 15:16 | it may be in that query that the filter could be adjusted (but I'm not sure at all as this is code I'm not familiar with) | |
| 15:17 | it calls SimpleSearch which i seem to recall might be a bit hackish | |
| 15:17 | anyhow, gmcharlt would know | |
| 15:18 | gmcharlt | jwagner: the patches are out there and will be in 3.2 |
| 15:18 | the basic approach is to normalize the ISBN into both the ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 forms, then store them in a subfield in the 942 for indexing | |
| 15:18 | jwagner | gmcharlt, thanks -- is there an ID number/date for the patch file? |
| 15:19 | gmcharlt | I'll have to look it up - doing other stuff atm |
| 15:19 | jwagner | Not a problem -- whenever you get a chance. Thanks much! |
| 15:20 | chris_n | jwagner: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]351bc26e49bff7a9c |
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| 15:20 | chris_n | wow... fixed over two years ago |
| 15:21 | gmcharlt | that only does part of it |
| 15:21 | |Lupin| | pls I need some help to add a title to a list |
| 15:21 | my librarian tells me that when she's on a record and uses the add to list button | |
| 15:22 | it proposes her to create a new list and there seems to be no option to add to an existing list | |
| 15:22 | amadan joined #koha | |
| 15:22 | |Lupin| | I tried with lynx and couln't figure out what to do to add to an existing list... can someone please help ? |
| 15:23 | chris_n | bug 1499 |
| 15:23 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1499 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt gmail.com, RESOLVED FIXED, add bilbio fails during dupe check if ISBN (020$a) has parentheses |
| 15:23 | wizzyrea | |Lupin| hmm... let me go look |
| 15:24 | |Lupin| | wizzyrea: thanks ! |
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| 15:24 | owen | Hi Melanie |
| 15:25 | |Lupin| | hello Melanie |
| 15:29 | rhcl | where is Southiana? Even Google can't google it. |
| 15:29 | wizzyrea | sorry |lupin| I am always getting off track |
| 15:29 | hi melanie | |
| 15:29 | I'm going to look right now | |
| 15:29 | owen | rhcl: I wondered the same thing |
| 15:29 | Melanie | Hi Owen. |
| 15:30 | |Lupin| | wizzyrea: np ! I'm too happy that you accept to look to raise any complaint ! |
| 15:30 | wizzyrea | |Lupin| there is a dropdown at the top that says "select existing list" |
| 15:31 | when you get in that pop-up window | |
| 15:32 | I can send a screenshot for your librarian if you like | |
| 15:32 | it may not work if say, she doesn't have permissions to do lists? | |
| 15:33 | |Lupin| | wizzyrea: I think she has... |
| 15:34 | wizzyrea | odd, it appears to be possible on my install, to add an item to an existing list |
| 15:36 | rhcl | OK, looks like Southiana may be India - Mainpur |
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| 15:39 | owen | |Lupin|: I was able to successfully add items to a list in lynx |
| 15:40 | wizzyrea | I was too :/ |
| 15:40 | er | |
| 15:41 | not in lynx, but saw the dropdown | |
| 15:42 | ftherese | I am importing records for the first time into koha from a marc file... one of the options was "check for embedded item record data?" how do I get more information on this? |
| 15:42 | like on how it works | |
| 15:46 | wizzyrea | the manual might have something about it, nengard isn't here, let me go see if i can find the section in the manual |
| 15:47 | http://koha.org/documentation/[…]ecords-for-import | |
| 15:48 | doesn't say a lot, but my guess is that it looks for 952 fields | |
| 15:48 | ftherese | so if I have a database full of book ID numbers |
| 15:49 | wizzyrea | like, barcodes? |
| 15:49 | ftherese | right |
| 15:49 | barcode number | |
| 15:49 | and the barcode number itself refers to an individual book | |
| 15:50 | and it has another number that refers to its information card (in another database) | |
| 15:50 | wizzyrea | wow |
| 15:50 | yea | |
| 15:50 | ftherese | so I need to connect the items (based on their barcode number) |
| 15:50 | to their information card | |
| 15:51 | which is their "info card #" | |
| 15:51 | I have nearly imported all the information cards | |
| 15:51 | wizzyrea | if I'm understanding correctly, you could use marcedit to map the bib to the item, but that would be a feat of data compilation that I probably wouldn't have much luck helping you with |
| 15:52 | :( | |
| 15:54 | ftherese | ok... so if I used MarcEdit, and assigned some tag 8xx$a to all the "info card #" |
| 15:54 | then how would I connect the barcode numbers to their respective info card #? | |
| 15:55 | * wizzyrea | is like a fish gasping for water while trapped on the beach |
| 15:55 | wizzyrea | no clue, sorry |
| 15:57 | ftherese | could I just import a second marc file for the items? |
| 16:13 | thd: are you around? | |
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| 16:15 | |Lupin| | Anyone knows how to pass login and password to a Koha scipt while running it from the command-line, please ? |
| 16:21 | jwagner | |Lupin|, which script & for what reason? |
| 16:22 | slef | |Lupin|: I think you get into managing the CGISESSID cookie. Probably easier to script running it through the webserver. |
| 16:22 | |Lupin| | jwagner: the problem is that when our librarian tries to add something to a virtual shelf, the existing ones are not proposed |
| 16:23 | jwagner: however, she is the owner of the shelves, she has _all_ the permissions set, including super librarian | |
| 16:24 | slef: I don't know how to debug a script that has been ran by apache... is that possible ? If it is I'm gonna be very interested ! | |
| 16:25 | schuster | ftherese - embedded information on the marc is in the 952 tag |
| 16:25 | ftherese | I am using unimarc |
| 16:25 | sorry | |
| 16:26 | schuster | doesn't matter on items. You would need a match point to load the items into the database from your MARC records already in Koha. |
| 16:26 | slef | |Lupin|: debug info is in the koha-error_log if the ErrorLog and koha debug preferences are right, but you can't easily run it through the perl debugger, if that's what you mean. |
| 16:27 | schuster | Is the information card # on the MARC someplace? |
| 16:27 | ftherese | I want my match point to be a number that I can put into the marc |
| 16:28 | |Lupin| | slef: it's what I meant, yes |
| 16:28 | slef: but I may have found something weird... | |
| 16:28 | at lien 119 of virtualshelves/addbybiblionumber.pl | |
| 16:29 | there is a variable which is re-declared | |
| 16:29 | slef | |Lupin|: you can login and then give the CGISESSID cookie extracted from your browser on the command-line but I forget exactly how. |
| 16:29 | ftherese | I already have an ID number that corresponds between the item information and the items themselves |
| 16:29 | slef | I'd have to look it up and I'm busy, sorry :-/ |
| 16:29 | |Lupin| | and I'm wondering whether this line doesn't distroy the prevous content of the variable... |
| 16:29 | ftherese | I just need to know what field I can put that number in |
| 16:30 | |Lupin| | ftherese: which number do you try to store in a unimarc field ? |
| 16:30 | ftherese | it is a key |
| 16:30 | an index number | |
| 16:31 | that has no importance or significance other than it is what the items and their information card have in common | |
| 16:31 | and it is how I can link the two | |
| 16:32 | for example | |
| 16:32 | I know that the book registered with 65537 has BibID=1000293845 | |
| 16:33 | and if I look up the BibID on my information database I know the title, author, cotation, etc. | |
| 16:33 | since we have multiple copies of the same book | |
| 16:34 | this actually does help... but I am trying to leave this system behind as well, so it is important only for the sake of transition | |
| 16:35 | |Lupin| | ftherese: are you talking about itemnumber field in Koha ? |
| 16:35 | ftherese | I am not sure... I am brand new to the process |
| 16:35 | item number refers to information or to concrete objects? | |
| 16:36 | BibID is the reference to an abstract piece of information | |
| 16:36 | in MY old database | |
| 16:37 | |Lupin| | ftherese: item number : yo have one by physical book. So if for instance for one given book you have sevral copies of it, each copy will have its own itemnumber which is stored in 995$9 in Unimarc |
| 16:37 | ftherese: yes, yes | |
| 16:38 | ftherese: and I think to refer to a copy of a book, for loans and so on, it's the itemnumber which is used. | |
| 16:39 | ftherese | ok... that is helpful... now how do I take a database full of item numbers |
| 16:39 | whose only connection to their information is a number | |
| 16:39 | that is also found in the abstract information database | |
| 16:40 | |Lupin| | ftherese: I think you have to proceed in several steps |
| 16:40 | ftherese | ok |
| 16:41 | |Lupin| | ftherese: your concern is that you want to migrate the loan historiy from your old system in Koha, right ? |
| 16:41 | ftherese | no |
| 16:41 | no loan history | |
| 16:41 | |Lupin| | ok |
| 16:41 | ftherese | my concern is... I don't want to have to relabel all my books |
| 16:41 | |Lupin| | ftherese: so what exactly is it that you want to migrate ? |
| 16:41 | ftherese | which already have an item number on them |
| 16:42 | but that item number is not directly present in the main database | |
| 16:42 | |Lupin| | ftherese: aaaaah... |
| 16:42 | ftherese | I need to connect the items to the main database |
| 16:42 | |Lupin| | ftherese: is this number a kind of barcode ? |
| 16:42 | ftherese | basically yes |
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| 16:43 | |Lupin| | ftherese: ell so you could first import your MARC records and during the record you would keep track of the mapping between your old numbers (those who identify records) and those assigned by Koha |
| 16:44 | ftherese: and then once it's done you could write a script that goes over your aold db and Koha's db and adds your numbers as barcodes ? | |
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| 16:46 | ftherese | ok... that's fine |
| 16:46 | so what could I use as a 8xx$x for my old identity record number? | |
| 16:46 | numbers. | |
| 16:48 | |Lupin| | ftherese: that I don' know, I'm really not a MARC specialist |
| 16:48 | ftherese: perhaps use something in the 9xx block ? | |
| 16:50 | kf | bye #koha |
| 16:50 | kf left #koha | |
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| 16:51 | Jpr | hey, I'm curious if anyone knows whether it is possible to do a search through 'opac-authorities-home.pl' in the address bar of a browser, the way it is for opac-search.pl |
| 16:52 | ftherese | now if I map my old BibID number to, say 955$z, could I then make a separate marc file with all my barcode numbers and also put a reference to 955$z with the old BibID? |
| 16:52 | Jpr | where you follow opac-search.pl with a question mark and then various search terms (like you can see in the address bar after doing a normal or advanced search) |
| 16:52 | ftherese | then import that seperately |
| 16:53 | would it cause the items to correspond to the information contained in the catalogue? | |
| 16:54 | owen | Jpr: does the result of your normal authorities search not result in a URL like that? |
| 16:54 | Jpr | exactly |
| 16:54 | * owen | rarely works with authorities |
| 16:54 | Jpr | it remains simply 'cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl' |
| 16:54 | owen | Jpr: Do you have a publicly-accessible OPAC to demonstrate? |
| 16:54 | Jpr | no, it's in-house only |
| 16:55 | I also have to admit that we haven't updated from 3.0.1, and this could be something that's been corrected in one of the more recent releases | |
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| 16:58 | |Lupin| | ftherese: I'm not sure but I'd say you really have to script and to add the info progressively to the marc records tat have been previously imported |
| 16:59 | ftherese: I have to go now, can't help more, sorry | |
| 16:59 | owen | Jpr: It looks like the authorities search form changed from "method=POST" to "method=GET" on 2009-04-18 |
| 16:59 | ftherese | that's ok... thanks Lupin |
| 16:59 | |Lupin| | np, sorry I couldn'thelp more ftherese |
| 16:59 | till soon all, bye | |
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| 17:00 | Jpr | owen: that is to say...? |
| 17:00 | owen | Jpr: I would think that would mean you'd have the fix. Maybe I've got my version numbers mixed up. |
| 17:01 | If you're self-hosted and have access to the Koha files you could modify the template | |
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| 17:01 | wizzyrea | hmm, this is interesting |
| 17:01 | Jpr | ack, I don't think we've got it, as we haven't updated since installation at the beginning of January |
| 17:01 | wizzyrea | I just got a question based on this statement: Since Koha treats circ status information in a non-Z standard way (they put it in a separate field apart from the call number, rather than in a subfield in the same field), the only time we can route requests around Koha libraries is when the item is checked out and has a due date. Any other statuses, such as Lost, Missing, On Order, etc. don't get transferred. |
| 17:02 | is that true, is koha really not z-standard compliant? | |
| 17:03 | Jpr | owen: in short, what you're saying is that I could more or less apply that patch to my own cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl in order to then be able to interact with opac-authorities-home in the aforementioned manner? (out of breath) |
| 17:03 | owen | Yes, I believe so. You'd be modifying opac-authorities-home.tmpl. That's the template, not the script. |
| 17:04 | Jpr: You'd change line 12 from "<form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="post">" | |
| 17:04 | ...to: <form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="get"> | |
| 17:04 | sekjal | wizzyrea: I was not aware of this, but it makes sense. the 'tatus' of an item is kept in many different fields |
| 17:04 | s/'tatus'/'status'/ | |
| 17:05 | Jpr | owen: thank you very, very much |
| 17:05 | sekjal | it seems to me it would make sense to just have a single "status" field which points to a user-configurable table |
| 17:06 | we could then create what statuses we want, on a per library basis, and apply logic to them to give them meaning (i.e. LOST items cannot be checked out and do not show up in search, ORDERED items can have holds placed on them, etc.) | |
| 17:07 | Colin left #koha | |
| 17:07 | sekjal | it'd be easy enough to ship Koha with some pre-created statuses, then let the library add/modify/delete as they like |
| 17:08 | wizzyrea | sekjal, I like that idea |
| 17:09 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 17:09 | wizzyrea | how difficult of a job, do you think, that would be |
| 17:09 | sekjal | there are current 6 separate subfields in 952 for status information |
| 17:09 | wizzyrea | ew |
| 17:09 | sekjal | wizzyrea: it would probably be a pretty big deal to change |
| 17:10 | no only would the logic attached to each of those 6 statuses need to be routed through the new configurable table, but we'd have to build the update script to convert libraries running the current setup to this new setup | |
| 17:10 | jdavidb | We've got a recent (still in testing) enhancement that does some additional status work; I don't think it does anything much in 952 fields, though. |
| 17:12 | sekjal | this ties into a conversation yesterday about moving certain kinds of info out of the 952, and keeping it just in the database |
| 17:13 | there are 5 acquisitions-related subfields in 952, as well as 5 circulation-related ones | |
| 17:13 | Colin | the database can handle much of this data better than in a marc subfield |
| 17:13 | sekjal | having them in the MARC means they can get indexed by Zebra, but is that really a benefit worth the time/cost of large MARC records |
| 17:13 | I cite bug 2453 again | |
| 17:13 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2453 critical, P3, ---, gmcharltgmail.com, NEW, (very) large biblio/item handling |
| 17:15 | wizzyrea | hm, interesting |
| 17:16 | sekjal | perhaps this and other major revisions to the Koha infrastructure are best saved for Koha 4.0 |
| 17:16 | wizzyrea | :/ yea, maybe |
| 17:16 | sekjal | I've got some ideas for how to make Koha more consortia/electronic resources friendly, but they involve lots of gut-level changes |
| 17:16 | wizzyrea | NEKLS might have some money to put towards that |
| 17:16 | owen | sekjal: If items can't be indexed by Zebra, how do you search by branch, availability, etc.? |
| 17:17 | sekjal | owen: we'd definitely need some 952 item data in the MARC records that are fed to Zebra, but maybe by reducing it to just the key elements, we can minimize the impact of the bug. |
| 17:17 | wizzyrea | well, koha really does need a single place for STATUS |
| 17:18 | branch etc probably should be left in the 952 | |
| 17:18 | sekjal | also, I think there has been talk of pulling the circ-related info out of MARC to speed up circulation |
| 17:18 | jdavidb | Keyword: *single*. Storing things multiple places is asking for gobs of trouble. (read: Item type, which is in *four* places.) |
| 17:19 | hugo joined #koha | |
| 17:19 | owen | jdavidb: And one of those places is the back of my car, and you know it's a mess back there. |
| 17:19 | sekjal | I'd say branch, item type, collection code, call number, and enumeration/vol/copy info is good to keep in the 952 |
| 17:19 | jdavidb | lol owen |
| 17:19 | sekjal | things we'd want to facet on |
| 17:19 | hugo | Hello... |
| 17:20 | sekjal | hi, hugo |
| 17:20 | hugo | I'm doing my first install of Koha on Debian (after many failed attempts on OS X) |
| 17:20 | and am stuck with a few questions. | |
| 17:21 | I'm following the INSTALL.debian-lenny instructions and reading instructions at http://blog.triumphovermadness[…]-debianlenny.html too | |
| 17:22 | I got a few messages about YAML not being installed... that was the first thing that didn't seem quite right. But I kept on going... | |
| 17:22 | but got lots of errors when I ran 'make test' | |
| 17:23 | Jpr left #koha | |
| 17:23 | hugo | There were more "yaml' not installed errors... but I've rebooted, and am running make test again to see what I get - ah, just failed again.... |
| 17:24 | the first error says "Failed test 'use C4::Circulation;' | |
| 17:25 | followed by can't locate YAML.pl in @INC | |
| 17:25 | I would use CPAN to install YAML, but the install doc says "only use CPAN for Perl dependencies which are NOT, etc. etc." | |
| 17:26 | so not sure if that would be wise (using CPAN) | |
| 17:26 | any help very much appreciated :) | |
| 17:28 | wizzyrea | oh hugo, you turned on the lights and all they all scattered :) |
| 17:28 | hugo | lol |
| 17:28 | well, I've been trying this all summer (on the OS X machine) so a little delay now is not awful. | |
| 17:29 | And I'm sure I'm much closer that before to getting this working for our little library. | |
| 17:29 | wizzyrea | is this a test or are you planning on using this particular install for production? |
| 17:30 | hugo | well, I guess it's a test - mainly because I've been given this newer (newish) dell box to run it on, and all I had was a PATA drive, while the machine really takes SATA drives. So I've rigged it to work with the PATA drive just so I can see that I can make it work. Once that's done, I'll go find a SATA drive and do it again. |
| 17:31 | make sense? | |
| 17:33 | Colin | hugo: use cpan (although there should be an apt package on debian for it) |
| 17:34 | hugo | I thought there was an apt package - I tried: apt-get install YAML |
| 17:35 | but failed | |
| 17:37 | Colin | try libyaml-perl as the package name |
| 17:39 | paul_p left #koha | |
| 17:40 | wizzyrea | colin++ that's what I was looking for to suggest |
| 17:40 | hugo | and should I do this with sudo? Or the regular use is OK? |
| 17:41 | ok, since I'm living on the edge here, I used sudo, your suggestion worked, I'm running make test again | |
| 17:41 | and walking down the drive to get the mail. thanks for the suggestons, I'll see what I've got when I return | |
| 17:42 | slef | so will hugo's computer have caught fire on return? |
| 17:42 | * slef | flits through, tidying up RFID some more |
| 17:44 | chris_n | howdy slef |
| 17:45 | slef | hihi |
| 17:45 | * chris_n | is ripping out and rewriting the rewrite of labels to implement patroncards atm |
| 17:46 | slef | rather you than me |
| 17:46 | chris_n | code litters the desktop |
| 17:47 | ftherese | ok... I am stuck again |
| 17:48 | chris_n | I actually finished up the core code for card generation (C and M)last week and am now working it into the interface (V) |
| 17:48 | ftherese | I got the whole catalog uploaded into koha |
| 17:48 | slef | chris_n: code always litters my desktop |
| 17:48 | ftherese | but now I need to know how to get my barcode information in there |
| 17:49 | hugo | no fire on my return... |
| 17:49 | sekjal | ftherese: so you've loaded in all the bibliographic records, and now need the item records to be attached? Am I understanding correctly? |
| 17:49 | amadan left #koha | |
| 17:50 | hugo | many fewer errors, but still some - |
| 17:50 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 17:51 | ftherese | yes |
| 17:51 | thati s correct sekjal | |
| 17:51 | I know there is a 995$9 | |
| 17:51 | Unimarc | |
| 17:51 | pianohacker | good morning |
| 17:52 | sekjal | did you use the Stage MARC Records for Import tool in the Tools area, or bulkmarcimport.pl? |
| 17:52 | hugo | Failed test '5 of 3 pieces produced' at t/Labels_split_ddcn.t line 30 etc. |
| 17:52 | ftherese | stage marc records |
| 17:53 | My problem is conceptual... I don't see how to relate my items with the Catalog | |
| 17:53 | My old library database used a number to link the two | |
| 17:54 | an ID number if you will | |
| 17:54 | sekjal | you can embed the item data in the MARC records that you import. It's the 952 field in MARC21 (and I think in UNIMARC as well, but I'm not sure) |
| 17:54 | chris_n | hi pianohacker |
| 17:54 | ftherese | that's what I need to do |
| 17:54 | but I don't know how | |
| 17:54 | I am using MarcEdit | |
| 17:55 | and I managed to map my previous database through an excel sheet to the marc | |
| 17:56 | chris_n | hugo: what version of koha? |
| 17:56 | ftherese | but I can't create a table on an excel sheet... or at least I don't know how... |
| 17:56 | hugo | chris_n:3.00.03 |
| 17:57 | sorry - 3.00.04 | |
| 17:57 | chris_n | hugo: which call number failed? |
| 17:58 | slef | 3.00.04_final? |
| 17:58 | sekjal | ftherese: I think I see your problem. You have a variable number of items per biblio record, so mapping them from Excel columns isn't really going to work |
| 17:59 | hugo | I'm a newbie with this stuff - how would I see which call failed? |
| 17:59 | sekjal | ftherese: one option would be to have a line in the spreadsheet for each item, rather than just each biblio. |
| 17:59 | ftherese | oh man... |
| 17:59 | lights go on in the room... | |
| 17:59 | thank you sekjal | |
| 18:00 | I was just conceptualizing it wrong | |
| 18:00 | sekjal | ftherese: then, on Staging for Import, you'd select your matching rule, and the options to skip adding the biblio if you match, but to still add the item |
| 18:00 | hugo | looking at the output from the make test, the errors start where it says... |
| 18:00 | ftherese | start with the concrete and work your way to the abstract |
| 18:00 | I was going the opposite way | |
| 18:00 | chris_n | hugo: it's not a show stopper for you installation, but it would be helpful to file a bug along with a cut and paste of the output from the test at bugs.koha.org |
| 18:01 | schuster left #koha | |
| 18:01 | hugo | oh - OK - I assumed it was all me and not a bug at all. |
| 18:01 | ftherese | perfect sekjal! |
| 18:01 | chris_n | it most likely means that the lccn splitting algorithm breaks on that particular call number |
| 18:02 | sekjal | ftherese: you just have to be sure to have a solid matching rule. do you have unique identifiers for each biblio that get mapped to MARC fields? |
| 18:02 | chris_n | which means it will break for others of the same type (exact same) |
| 18:02 | and so needs to be fixed | |
| 18:03 | hugo | the last line of the make test reads, "make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255 |
| 18:03 | ftherese | sekjal: no, but I can |
| 18:03 | hugo | should I just keep going and go on to make install? |
| 18:04 | chris_n | yup, but please consider filing a bug |
| 18:04 | ftherese | sekjal: I mean, there is a unique identifier for each biblio, but I dont' know where to map it in MARC |
| 18:04 | hugo | Oh - I see, maybe this is what you were asking - it says the failed tests in t/Label were 62 64 66 and 68 |
| 18:04 | I will, for sure. Thanks - and I'll run the install now | |
| 18:05 | sekjal | ftherese: I've had difficulty mapping my own unique identifier into the Koha biblionumber field. You'd probably need to pick a field of your own (for example, 942$9 would probably work) |
| 18:07 | ftherese | perfect... that's what I needed to know |
| 18:07 | @sekjal thank you! | |
| 18:07 | munin | ftherese: Error: "sekjal" is not a valid command. |
| 18:07 | ftherese | :sekjal thank you |
| 18:08 | sekjal | ftherese: good luck! |
| 18:10 | * sekjal | wonders what kind of command he'd be, if he were valid |
| 18:11 | wizzyrea | probably a helpful one ;) |
| 18:11 | sekjal | aww, thanks, wizzyrea. I aspire |
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| 18:20 | pianohacker | munin: (pianohacker [question]) -- attempt to answer question, verbosely, or provide existential angst if no question is given. |
| 18:20 | munin | pianohacker: Error: "question" is not a valid command. |
| 18:21 | jdavidb | munin: what? |
| 18:21 | munin | jdavidb: Error: "what?" is not a valid command. |
| 18:21 | jdavidb | hehe. |
| 18:22 | sekjal | munin: aardvark |
| 18:22 | munin | sekjal: Error: "aardvark" is not a valid command. |
| 18:22 | sekjal | I find that hard to believe |
| 18:22 | pianohacker | munin: command |
| 18:22 | munin | pianohacker: Error: "command" is not a valid command. |
| 18:26 | Colin | munin: useproprietrysoftware |
| 18:26 | munin | Colin: Error: "useproprietrysoftware" is not a valid command. |
| 18:27 | ftherese | I'd like to add a google books interface on koha using javascript... is that possible? |
| 18:27 | everything seems to be in perl | |
| 18:27 | brendan | @wunder 93117 |
| 18:27 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.1�C (10:22 AM PST on November 04, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016.5 hPa (Steady). |
| 18:27 | slef | ftherese: everything is possible, but some things are difficult or expensive. |
| 18:28 | Ropuch | Evenening #koha |
| 18:28 | sekjal | ftherese: short answer, yes. you can overlay arbitrary Javascript on your OPAC from the system preferences |
| 18:28 | slef | ftherese: there's javascript in the koha-tmpl folder |
| 18:28 | ftherese | ahhhh great! |
| 18:28 | slef | sekjal's way is probably simpler if you can |
| 18:29 | sekjal | ftherese: longer answer: I have no idea how to actually make it work. I imagine some trial and error |
| 18:29 | but at least the mechanics are in place | |
| 18:29 | ftherese | that way... you can do an ajax to google on your book's isbn and get an inline fulltext serchable if it is available |
| 18:29 | greenmang0 left #koha | |
| 18:30 | ftherese | I already did some java scripting and ajax stuff with Google Books, so I know the api pretty well |
| 18:31 | sekjal | ftherese: most excellent! there is a new system preference in 3.1 for searching other sources. It can parse in the title, author or ISBN |
| 18:31 | hugo left #koha | |
| 18:32 | sekjal | it replaces the old hardcoded links to WorldCat, Google Scholar and Bookfinder.com |
| 18:33 | ftherese | have you checked out Google books yet? |
| 18:33 | sekjal | ftherese: I've looked at it some, but not in depth. I do so little with actual content these days... |
| 18:33 | ftherese | the best part is you could keep the user on kola and integrate a viewer/fulltext search |
| 18:33 | sorry koha | |
| 18:35 | sekjal | sounds like it would be a great additional feature to be able to offer in Koha. perhaps set it up so it can display in a different tab in the details page... (next to Holdings, Title Notes or Subscriptions) |
| 18:36 | ftherese | it would be really easy to set up... just a few lines of javascript and some ajax calls |
| 18:36 | sekjal | easy is good |
| 18:37 | brendan | http://catalog.my.pacifica.edu[…]biblionumber=4331 |
| 18:37 | is one version that I hacked together quickly | |
| 18:37 | but it doesn't match that often | |
| 18:38 | and I haven't worked on it in little bit -- so it displays on every result | |
| 18:38 | even if the ISBN can't be found in google -- so it's not correct yet | |
| 18:41 | sekjal | brendan: impressive. sounds like its pretty much there, except for some minor cleanup |
| 18:42 | ftherese | here is one that I threw together real quick, I am not good at html... but this one only returns results that have some sort of preview: |
| 18:42 | http://sites.google.com/site/bibliothequeproject/ | |
| 18:43 | pianohacker | just to confirm, irc meeting in 18 min, right? |
| 18:43 | ftherese | if you click on one of the books it returns, you get an inline viewer right on the page |
| 18:43 | wizzyrea | bah, I have to go to another meeting in 18mins |
| 18:44 | sekjal | ftherese: nice! |
| 18:44 | hugo joined #koha | |
| 18:44 | sekjal | pianohacker: oh, right. I failed to factor in DST when I made the appointment in my calendar |
| 18:45 | hugo left #koha | |
| 18:47 | wizzyrea | oh that's cute ftherese |
| 18:47 | ricardo joined #koha | |
| 18:48 | ricardo | Hi everyone! :) |
| 18:48 | sekjal | hi, ricardo |
| 18:48 | wizzyrea | cute in a good way |
| 18:48 | ftherese | cute is the right word... just a sample of how Google Books can be integrated into any site @wizzyrea |
| 18:49 | Ropuch | I will sure look into it, my boss likes the google books ;> |
| 18:50 | sekjal | ftherese++ |
| 18:53 | rhcl is now known as rhcl_away | |
| 18:55 | hugo joined #koha | |
| 18:56 | cait joined #koha | |
| 18:57 | cait | hi #koha |
| 18:57 | slef | hi cait |
| 18:57 | jdavidb | Hi cait! :) |
| 18:58 | chris_n | hi cait |
| 18:58 | davi | hi |
| 18:58 | cait | :) |
| 18:59 | pianohacker | hi everyone |
| 18:59 | wizzyrea | afk, hopefully back soon |
| 19:00 | hugo left #koha | |
| 19:00 | gmcharlt | good afternoon |
| 19:00 | good evening | |
| 19:00 | good morning | |
| 19:00 | and good night | |
| 19:00 | rafael joined #koha | |
| 19:00 | chris_n | lol |
| 19:01 | gmcharlt | welcome to the November 4 meeting of the Koha project |
| 19:01 | one sec | |
| 19:02 | let's start with roll cal | |
| 19:02 | * gmcharlt | - Galen Charlton, Equinox, RM |
| 19:02 | Ropuch | Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE, Poland |
| 19:02 | chris_n | Chris Nighswonger, FBC |
| 19:02 | cait | Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 19:02 | magnusenger | Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
| 19:02 | davi | Davi Diaz, worker for software.coop |
| 19:02 | Colin | Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe |
| 19:02 | slef | MJ Ray, member of software.coop |
| 19:03 | brendan | Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions |
| 19:03 | jdavidb | J. David Bavousett, PTFS |
| 19:03 | rafael | Rafael Antonio, Portugal |
| 19:03 | sekjal | Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries |
| 19:03 | collum | Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, Kentucky |
| 19:03 | ricardo | Ricardo Dias Marques, Portugal |
| 19:03 | CGI695 joined #koha | |
| 19:04 | gmcharlt | ok, cool |
| 19:04 | the page for this meeting is | |
| 19:04 | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes09nov04 | |
| 19:04 | and the agenda is | |
| 19:05 | 1. | |
| 19:05 | Update on Roadmap to 3.2. | |
| 19:05 | 2. | |
| 19:05 | Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap. | |
| 19:05 | 3. | |
| 19:05 | Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting 7 October 2009. | |
| 19:05 | 4. | |
| 19:05 | Agree times of next meetings. | |
| 19:05 | before we can started, can I impose on slef or somebody else to be notetaker? | |
| 19:05 | Nate | nate curulla bywater solutions |
| 19:06 | pianohacker | Jesse Weaver, John C. Fremont Library District |
| 19:06 | dbirmingham joined #koha | |
| 19:06 | sekjal | gmcharlt: I can take notes, if slef passes |
| 19:06 | gmcharlt | sekjal: thanks, please go ahead |
| 19:06 | slef | I pass to sekjal due to network instability. |
| 19:06 | SelfishMan | Blaine Fleming, Livingston-Park County Public Library (mostly) |
| 19:07 | dbirmingham | David Birmingham, PTFS |
| 19:07 | slef | (6pm-8pm most nights at the moment :-/ ) |
| 19:07 | thd | Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 19:08 | Melanie | Melanie Hedgespeth, Salina, KS Salina Public Library |
| 19:08 | gmcharlt | so regarding 3.2, I've now gotten confirmation from paul_p and hdl_laptop that they've fixed the DB update issues in their new_acq branch |
| 19:08 | that was the main (non-bug) blocker, so I'll pull that in and put out the alpha in the next day or two | |
| 19:08 | (hey, it's going to be 48-hour long November 4th :/ ) | |
| 19:09 | chris_n | heh |
| 19:09 | gmcharlt | after which the release will be in bugfix mode running up to the RC1 which I hope to get out 3-4 weeks after the alpha |
| 19:09 | davi | 4 weeks from alpha to release is too short? |
| 19:10 | gmcharlt | alpha to release *candidate* - I'm not expecting that the translations would be done that quickly |
| 19:10 | pianohacker | davi: 4 weeks from alpha to release candidate is what I think gmcharlt had in mind |
| 19:10 | thd | davi: RC1 is still not a release |
| 19:10 | davi | ack |
| 19:11 | thd | I will try to have some neglected MARC 21 framework updates in that period including a German translation from kf |
| 19:11 | ricardo | gmcharlt: I agree with davi. But I guess that's not a big issue: weren't deadlines created to be skipped? ;-) |
| 19:12 | gmcharlt | regarding 3.0.x, I didn't see hdl_laptop introduce himself, so in case he's not here, he has released 3.0.4 |
| 19:12 | ricardo | hdl++ |
| 19:13 | gmcharlt | indeed, hdl++ |
| 19:14 | so jumping onwards | |
| 19:14 | items from last meeting | |
| 19:14 | the wiki relicensing ballot is still open as far as I can tell - slef, do you have an update on that? | |
| 19:15 | tajoli joined #koha | |
| 19:15 | slef | not much |
| 19:15 | thd | I have an update if slef does not. |
| 19:15 | slef | thd and myself need to sweep through the yet to votes |
| 19:15 | thd: go ahead | |
| 19:16 | thd | I have contacted some people who had not voted. |
| 19:16 | Some have now voted, a couple of others who I can identify I still need to contact. | |
| 19:16 | I will also contact some again. | |
| 19:17 | The vote is quite close to half of the electorate. | |
| 19:17 | Some people may never respond or really be found. | |
| 19:17 | davi | Is it boring vote again and again? Should we keep or allow updating current votes, allowing to just add new people votes? |
| 19:17 | slef | I also want to analyse what proportion of pages they represent. I suspect having kados||liblime approval would cover lots of them. |
| 19:17 | chris | apologies for being late |
| 19:18 | gmcharlt | I'm pretty sure that at least three of the accounts are spam accounts, back when the wiki was World of Warcraft gold-trading central |
| 19:18 | slef | chris: did you forget to blow on the pie? |
| 19:18 | chris | heh |
| 19:18 | thd | :) |
| 19:18 | chris | naw, tried to get to work before 8, didnt think id make it, so put my apologies on the wiki already |
| 19:18 | ricardo | If anyone is wondering what's this "wiki relicensing thing", we're talking about this - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing |
| 19:18 | chris | ill take them back off, doesnt look like i missed too much |
| 19:18 | pianohacker | thd, slef: do you have a set quorum before you consider the issue closed? |
| 19:18 | * owen | is late too |
| 19:19 | slef | davi: I don't see much point in closing the vote. |
| 19:19 | gmcharlt | I'm pretty sure that we've established that a plurarilty of the editors are OK with the relicensing |
| 19:19 | the main issue at this point would be if one of those who hasn't voted yet decides to come back and want to keep their content non-GPL | |
| 19:19 | chris_n | don't we really just need a simple majority? |
| 19:19 | davi | slef, I would agree that voting where not closed allowing new ones at any time, or modification of votes already issued |
| 19:20 | slef | pianohacker: no. I suspect we'll keep this going until next meeting at least. |
| 19:20 | gmcharlt | chris_n: I think we have a basis for now stating that *new* content on the wiki will be GPL |
| 19:20 | and putting up appropriate notes on the interface | |
| 19:20 | thd | gmcharlt: the election rules called for a majority. |
| 19:20 | slef | the escape routes are trying to track which pages have "clean" licenses, but I think the recent namespace restructuring may complicate that. |
| 19:21 | chris_n: a majority of authors or of content? | |
| 19:21 | gmcharlt | but we cannot, ultimately, just relicense existing content w/o the consent of the copyright holder |
| 19:21 | thd | gmcharlt: I think that we do not quite have a majority. |
| 19:21 | slef | another escape route is to email all of the "Yet to vote" list with the decision and give them chance to object |
| 19:21 | thd | gmcharlt: We could under the joint authorship theory of the construction of the wiki. |
| 19:21 | slef | those on the Yet to vote and email bouncing, I'm not sure what to do with their contributions |
| 19:22 | gmcharlt | thd: we do have a majority of voters |
| 19:22 | slef | presumably someone else at katipo could speak for one of them as their employer - maybe one or two others are similar |
| 19:22 | chris_n | perhaps future licensing should have a "contact-ability" clause in it? |
| 19:22 | thd | gmcharlt: yes we have no objection from any voters |
| 19:23 | gmcharlt | obviously, one of the biggest holdouts is kados, and frankly that's the main direction I would expect any challenge to come from |
| 19:23 | ricardo | gmcharlt: *nod* |
| 19:24 | thd | I think that if anyone would object we would need to attach a special notice to their content with the CC-BY-NC license. |
| 19:24 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 19:24 | * mason | waves... |
| 19:24 | slef | I'm not comfortable with the joint authorship theory, so I would prefer to track things touched by the "yet to vote" list. |
| 19:24 | gmcharlt | and perhaps make it incumbent on them to clearly identify the portions of the content that should remain under CC-BY-NC |
| 19:24 | slef | mason? |
| 19:25 | thd | legally we could relicense under joint authorship with merely support from significant copyright holders but we should not morally |
| 19:25 | slef | thd: is it safe even without one significant copyright holder? |
| 19:26 | s/safe even/worth trying/ | |
| 19:26 | mason | hi slef |
| 19:26 | thd | slef: We should seek legal advice if we are asking about safe |
| 19:26 | gmcharlt | here's what I propose we do: |
| 19:26 | 1. keep the voting period open until the next general meeting | |
| 19:26 | thd | slef: We should probably just pose the question to SFLC in any case. |
| 19:27 | gmcharlt | 2. after that meeting, plan to update wiki to specify that all new content will fall under the GPL - |
| 19:27 | slef | thd: any idea of the relative response rates of SFLC and FTF? |
| 19:27 | ricardo | thd: SLFC = Software Freedom Law Center - http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ Right? |
| 19:27 | gmcharlt | 3. if necessary, tag any content that's still udner CC-BY-NC |
| 19:27 | wizzyrea | Liz Rea, NEKLS |
| 19:27 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Sounds good to me... |
| 19:27 | gmcharlt | and mark it for replacement - given need to document 3.2, I think we'll have reason to do that anyway |
| 19:27 | slef | FTF = Freedom Task Force http://fsfe.org/projects/ftf/ |
| 19:27 | thd | slef: They are both probably slow unless you are being sued. |
| 19:27 | ricardo | wizzyrea: I think you got some *huge* network lag ;-) |
| 19:28 | wizzyrea | hehe |
| 19:28 | sorry I had another meeting >.< | |
| 19:28 | thd | slef: Which is why we should ask now. SFLC has more experience with this particular issue. |
| 19:28 | chris_n | gmcharlt: +1 |
| 19:28 | gmcharlt | I would like to see if we can get this issue closed, at least for new content, by shortly after the December meeting |
| 19:28 | slef | gmcharlt: +1 |
| 19:29 | chris left #koha | |
| 19:29 | chilts left #koha | |
| 19:29 | ricardo | Oops... There goes Chris |
| 19:29 | slef | 4. thd to ask SFLC opinion on joint authorship theory? |
| 19:29 | owen | Don't panic! |
| 19:29 | chris_n | owen: lol |
| 19:29 | slef: +1 | |
| 19:29 | gmcharlt | slef, thd: +1 |
| 19:29 | thd | gmcharlt: you may have shortened a step |
| 19:30 | pianohacker | owen: we have 38 more steps before we have to worry about panicking |
| 19:30 | thd | gmcharlt: We should be able to relicense at least some old content. |
| 19:30 | pianohacker | +1 on relicensing plan, be nice to get this over with |
| 19:30 | thd | gmcharlt: I know that many pages have never been edited. |
| 19:30 | gmcharlt | thd: true any content clearly originating from one of the "yes" voters can be marked as GPL after the voting closed |
| 19:31 | thd | s/edited/edited by other than the original author/ |
| 19:32 | chris_n | will licensing under GPL clear up the possibility of this sort of question in the future? |
| 19:32 | thd | chris_n: Which sort of question? |
| 19:32 | * chris_n | can imagine many people editing and then disappearing over time |
| 19:32 | ricardo | chris_n: *nod* |
| 19:32 | chris_n | thd: having to seek out each editor every time there is a copyright question |
| 19:32 | slef | chris_n: only as long as we keep track of the licensing status. |
| 19:32 | gmcharlt | chris_n: yes - an implicit part of this would be added a statement to the wiki (on the account creation page, among other places), that any content aded to the wiki should be GPL unless the contributor *explicitly* licenses it otherwise |
| 19:33 | davi | Will us relicense to "GPL version 3" or "GPL version 3 or later" to avoid have to run again with this troubles when "GPL version 4 be out"? |
| 19:33 | gmcharlt | I don't know if we've ever decided this, but we could decide to make it stronger and *require* that new content be GPL |
| 19:34 | slef | davi: I think the proposal is for the same terms as Koha. Check the wording. |
| 19:34 | davi | ack |
| 19:34 | thd | chris_n, davi: The or later clause provides flexibility without needing a similar vote. |
| 19:34 | davi | good |
| 19:34 | gmcharlt | regarding GPL 2 => GPL 3 or later, yes, we would have to go through this exercise again if we decided to do that, but practically speaking, unless somebody discovers a major flaw with "GPL 2 or later", I don't think it would be necessary |
| 19:34 | thd | Wikipedia had an easier time because they had an or later clause. |
| 19:34 | slef | it seems unlikely that any fatal GPL-2 bug will harm wiki text IMO |
| 19:35 | * chris_n | thinks that both Koha and the wiki and the documentation should be sync'd in licensing |
| 19:35 | chris_n | if that is possible |
| 19:35 | slef | chris_n: yes |
| 19:35 | davi | slef, It would be improvable, but this would be a good time to avoid such risk |
| 19:35 | gmcharlt | "changing the wiki page license to the GPL version 2 or later terms used by the main Koha download" |
| 19:35 | davi | chris_n++ |
| 19:36 | gmcharlt | so what the yes voters have assented to is "GPL 2 or later" |
| 19:36 | thd | slef: the only issue would be quoting GPL 3 code in the wiki and that content can always be marked appropriately and is covered by the or later clause. |
| 19:36 | jamesrf left #koha | |
| 19:36 | ricardo | gmcharlt: OK |
| 19:36 | slef | thd: yes, so we'd still need to track terms. |
| 19:36 | davi | Being "GPL 2 or later" it is very easy publish a copy as "GPLv3 or later" |
| 19:37 | just change the license and go. | |
| 19:37 | ricardo | I have a newbie question (sorry): I thought that works under the GPL are / could be copyrighted (although allowing the right for modifications to others, of course). If this is so, who is the copyright holder, in this case? |
| 19:37 | gmcharlt | ricardo: ye olde bunch o' people |
| 19:37 | ricardo | gmcharlt: OK, thanks |
| 19:38 | davi | thd, GPL v2 is incompatible with GPL v3 |
| 19:38 | * chris_n | wonders about the young ones in the bunch ;-) |
| 19:38 | thd | davi: yes |
| 19:38 | davi: However, any special section marked GPL 3 or later could be kept as such. | |
| 19:39 | gmcharlt | chris_n: the bunch is olde, relatively speaking - I'm making no assertions about any of the members of same ;) |
| 19:39 | * jdavidb | is olde. |
| 19:39 | thd | davi: we do not have quoting much code in the wiki in any case. |
| 19:39 | * pianohacker | hands gmcharlt his cane |
| 19:39 | richard joined #koha | |
| 19:39 | richard | hi |
| 19:39 | davi | thd, It is not a problem as all the wiki could be moved from "GPL v2 or later" to "GPL v3 or later" just changing the notice. It is legal. |
| 19:39 | * wizzyrea | calls pianohacker a whippersnapper |
| 19:39 | * gmcharlt | tells pianohacker to get off his lawn |
| 19:40 | thd | davi: That is an advantage, not a problem. |
| 19:40 | davi | ack |
| 19:40 | I know | |
| 19:40 | ricardo | Ah! Here's my homonym. Hi richard! :) |
| 19:40 | pianohacker | bah |
| 19:40 | thd | davi: That would make this task, much easier if we collectively decided that would be helpful. |
| 19:40 | davi | ack |
| 19:41 | gmcharlt | doesn't "GPL2 or later" mean that the recipient has the option to redistribute per GPL2? I don't see how that can turn into GPL3 or later w/o a relicensing vote |
| 19:41 | slef | davi: legal, but slightly dishonest because the original content is also available under GPL-2. |
| 19:41 | dishonest is a bit too strong | |
| 19:41 | davi | slef, the original is "GPL v2 or later" not just "GPL v2" |
| 19:41 | slef | Have I mentioned recently how much I dislike copyright law? |
| 19:41 | davi | so, no dishonest IMHO |
| 19:42 | gmcharlt | ok, anyway, I think we have discussed this enough for now - hopefully we get to finalize at least some of this next month |
| 19:42 | thd | gmcharlt: I think that we could although any old copies in the internet archive would still be GPL 2 or later. |
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| 19:42 | chris_n | we probably have a similar issue with the code itself given the various copyright holders of the various pieces |
| 19:42 | davi | slef, copyright law being extended in a lot of countries is what has allowed the grow of the Free Software community IMHO |
| 19:42 | chrisc joined #koha | |
| 19:43 | ricardo | chris_n: *nod* |
| 19:43 | sekjal | are we going to decide to allow other new content to be published in the wiki with other licensing if explicitly requested? |
| 19:43 | chrisc | well that was annoying |
| 19:43 | chris_n | wb chrisc |
| 19:43 | chris joined #koha | |
| 19:43 | chris_n | and chris |
| 19:43 | gmcharlt | clones? |
| 19:43 | pianohacker | looks like it |
| 19:43 | chrisc | yeah, network went down, and came back up |
| 19:43 | chris_n | we're multiplying rapidly |
| 19:43 | chrisc left #koha | |
| 19:43 | chris left #koha | |
| 19:44 | thd | We should briefly address sekjal's question. |
| 19:44 | ricardo | sekjal: I don't think so (just my opinion). Did you have any particular license / case in mind? |
| 19:44 | slef | sekjal: I think we should, but it should not be usual. |
| 19:44 | chris joined #koha | |
| 19:44 | sekjal | ricardo: no, nothing in mind. I just have it noted as an unresolved question |
| 19:44 | gmcharlt | I think the main case would be republishing content that's under another license that allows distribution |
| 19:44 | ricardo | chris: stay put, will ya? ;-) |
| 19:44 | nengard | did the meeting start? I thought it was in 15 min ... |
| 19:44 | thd | sekjal: we should discourage incompatible license notices appearing in the wiki |
| 19:44 | chris_n | perhaps "on approval of the community or its reps"? |
| 19:44 | chris | ill try |
| 19:44 | gmcharlt | but I agree that it should be an unusual thing |
| 19:45 | wizzyrea | nengard: daylight savings :( |
| 19:45 | thd | sekjal: that would defeat the purpose of the wiki. |
| 19:45 | nengard | oh - well had car trouble and just got hom |
| 19:45 | home | |
| 19:46 | slef | chris_n: or just that it may be replaced with something under more friendly terms if possible. |
| 19:46 | sekjal | I agree that all the content on the wiki should be fully redistributable. Do we want to make that a condition for publishing to the wiki, or just the default (with exceptions available upon request)? |
| 19:46 | gmcharlt | regarding other action items, the main one left from last meeting was BZ default assignees |
| 19:46 | sekjal | this could be decided at a later meeting, if appropriate |
| 19:46 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Huh? |
| 19:46 | gmcharlt | and at this point we may as well roll it into discussino of 3.4 roles |
| 19:46 | BZ = Bugzilla | |
| 19:47 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Ah, OK. |
| 19:47 | gmcharlt | which I propose to make an agenda item for next meeting |
| 19:47 | thd | sekjal: we should certainly allow more permissive licensing of sections on request. |
| 19:47 | gmcharlt | December 2nd is the first Wednesday of December |
| 19:47 | and I propose 10:00 UTC+0 as the time, since we've had two general meetings in a row at 19:00 UTC+0 | |
| 19:47 | any objectiosn? | |
| 19:47 | thd | sekjal: However, I doubt the issue of alternative licenses will arise. |
| 19:47 | chris_n | +1 |
| 19:47 | wizzyrea | so where are we with bugzilla default assignees? |
| 19:48 | ricardo | thd: My only question with that would be what would be a more permissive licensing -public domain, others? (Is my double use of "would be" here correct? I think it is...) |
| 19:48 | davi | sekjal, We should care too about all that licenses being compatibles, or just allow only one. so it would be easier use such material to write a book, manual or similar |
| 19:48 | thd | sekjal: It would mostly be for quoting content of others. |
| 19:49 | ricardo | davi: *nod* |
| 19:49 | thd | ricardo: FSF has a list for software licenses and compatibility. |
| 19:49 | gmcharlt | the other issue is the foundation, but I don't think there's all that much to say about it since it's been only a week since the last foundation-forming meeting |
| 19:49 | sekjal | so the rule would be all new content is defaulted to GPLv2, with more permissive licenses available on request |
| 19:49 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Yeah, I had to skip that meeting unfortunately. Will read the transcript, when I get around to it |
| 19:49 | davi | "GPL v2 or later" |
| 19:49 | ? | |
| 19:50 | gmcharlt | as a reminder, the next foundation forming meeting is currently scheduled at 19:00 UTC+0 on 3 December 2009 |
| 19:50 | davi | yes, http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing |
| 19:50 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Darn, I guess I'll probably also miss that one, then. Oh well... |
| 19:50 | nengard | no one answered wizzyrea about bugzilla |
| 19:50 | was that a point already covered? | |
| 19:51 | davi | Association -or- Foundation?, or is going to Foundation already decided? |
| 19:51 | thd | sekjal: More permissive would be an option of a contributor. Not the other way around. |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | mostly that I think we should defer it and discuss next meeting when we start talking about 3.4 roles |
| 19:51 | wizzyrea | ah, ok |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | of course, anybody who wants to volunteer to wrangle bugs for a particuar module should feel free to do so at any time |
| 19:51 | wizzyrea | I missed that part sorry gmcharlt |
| 19:51 | nengard | thanks gmcharlt |
| 19:52 | sekjal | thd: okay, I think I'm clear. If my notes on the wiki are inaccurate, let me know afterwards and I'll correct |
| 19:52 | pianohacker | gmcharlt: I've volunteered as a generic bug wrangler; fdemians came up with idea, still trying to get idea of precise meaning |
| 19:52 | thd | We do have an open question on the next foundation forming meeting |
| 19:53 | chris_n | thd: the time? |
| 19:53 | thd | yes time. |
| 19:53 | ricardo | thd: Who's "we"? |
| 19:53 | davi | Was the Association options rejected? |
| 19:53 | thd | Anyone who wants to know when it will be. |
| 19:53 | davi: Which association option? | |
| 19:53 | chris | davi: not outright, but for the immediate future yes |
| 19:53 | slef | davi: no, not yet. slopply language on some. |
| 19:54 | chris_n | 19:00 UTC was set on the condition that there were no objections |
| 19:54 | davi | ack |
| 19:54 | slef | davi: first move is to HLT, a trust. |
| 19:54 | davi | ok ok |
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| 19:54 | jdavidb joined #koha | |
| 19:55 | gmcharlt | I'd say that if we don't hear objections in the next week or so, we'll run with 19:00 UTC+0 for the foundation meeting |
| 19:55 | rafael | for me is ok |
| 19:55 | chris_n | +1 |
| 19:55 | thd | davi: The exact form is undecided. Imprecise language as slef said. |
| 19:55 | sekjal | so, a cutoff date of, say Nov 15th for objections? |
| 19:55 | tajoli | +1 |
| 19:55 | nicomo left #koha | |
| 19:55 | davi | ack thd |
| 19:55 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Fine, by me... I won't be able to attend it, but I don't think that it should be changed because of me |
| 19:56 | gmcharlt | sekjal: +1 |
| 19:56 | chris_n | +1 |
| 19:56 | Colin | ditto to ricardo's comment |
| 19:56 | ricardo | sekjal: Sure (+1) |
| 19:56 | Colin: :) | |
| 19:56 | thd | pianohacker++ |
| 19:57 | fdemains++ | |
| 19:57 | * chris_n | tries to imagine pianohacker in boots and chaps |
| 19:57 | ricardo | Question: are we still going to talk about Koha 3.0.x roadmap in this meeting? Or can't we do it because hdl is silent now? |
| 19:58 | gmcharlt | ricardo: yes, it would depend on hdl unless chris has something to say about 3.0.x |
| 19:58 | ricardo | (*nod* pianohacker++ fdemians++) |
| 19:58 | slef | well, does anyone know where the current 3.0.x roadmap is? |
| 19:58 | chris | i can speak a little to that, there will be a 3.0.5 release in the near future i have to tidy up some translation issues |
| 19:58 | slef: its only bugfixes from now | |
| 19:58 | there were some missing submit buttons not translated, which 3.0.5 will fix | |
| 19:59 | tajoli | 3.0.5 will have also bugfixes ? |
| 19:59 | hugo joined #koha | |
| 19:59 | davi | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]opment:roadmap3.0 ? |
| 19:59 | ricardo | chris: Any "freeze dates" for 3.0.5 already? |
| 19:59 | chris | not yet |
| 19:59 | pianohacker | chris_n: it'll mostly consist of pestering people about bugs that are lacking info; I'm an expert at pestering |
| 19:59 | tajoli | missing submit buttons not translated is a bug for me |
| 19:59 | chris | when i update the templates ill call a string freeze |
| 19:59 | ricardo | chris: OK, thanks for the info |
| 19:59 | chris | tajoli: yes that is the main fix for 3.0.5 |
| 19:59 | tajoli | OK |
| 20:00 | ricardo | tajoli: It is, but I believe hdl is submitting patches for correcting that bug |
| 20:00 | chris | yep, fixed now |
| 20:00 | tajoli | corret, I see the dix |
| 20:00 | chris | i just have to update the .po |
| 20:00 | and then you guys have to translate, and then we are ready | |
| 20:00 | tajoli | dix/fix |
| 20:00 | chris | i suspect 3.0.5 will be the last 3.0.x release |
| 20:00 | nengard | i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to. |
| 20:01 | ricardo | chris: Like I said, I'll probably have to send you an updated Portuguese PO (during this or next week). Will this hurt your plans? |
| 20:01 | gmcharlt | nengard: hold that thought a second, please |
| 20:01 | nengard | np |
| 20:01 | chris | nope that is fine ricardo |
| 20:01 | ricardo | chris: OK, thanks |
| 20:01 | gmcharlt | OK, I think we've covered everything for this meeting |
| 20:01 | dbirmingham left #koha | |
| 20:02 | ricardo | Question: wouldn't Koha 3.2 development benefit for waiting for some tests & fixes for 3.0.x? |
| 20:02 | chris | nope |
| 20:02 | gmcharlt | thanks to all for participating, and we'll meet again on 2 December |
| 20:02 | ricardo | chris: how so? |
| 20:02 | rafael | bye |
| 20:02 | Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next foundation forming meeting is scheduled at 19:00 UTC+0 on 3 December 2009 | |
| 20:02 | davi | same hours? |
| 20:02 | rafael left #koha | |
| 20:02 | gmcharlt | davi: I think we'll be going with 10:00 UTC+0 on the 2nd |
| 20:03 | davi | ack |
| 20:03 | ricardo | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:03 | thd | slef: you should update the wiki relicensing ballot to state closing by 2 December. |
| 20:03 | nengard | sorry all, thought the meeting was over guess I missed the part where we started discussing stuff again - anyway - I have a question now that I think the meeting is over :) |
| 20:03 | i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to. | |
| 20:03 | chris | ricardo: the bugs in 3.0.x are specific to it, any 3.2 ones are fixed in master |
| 20:03 | and ported back to 3.0.x (not the other way) | |
| 20:03 | chris_n | tnx gmcharlt |
| 20:04 | chris | ricardo: hdl and spent a few nights porting about 300+ patches from master to 3.0.x before 3.0.4 |
| 20:04 | danielg joined #koha | |
| 20:04 | ricardo | chris: Well, that depends on who is doing the tests and where the tests are :) |
| 20:04 | hugo left #koha | |
| 20:04 | danielg | daniel grobani here, first IRC experience ever |
| 20:04 | ricardo | s/where the tests/where the tests *and* bugs |
| 20:04 | thd | slef: Having people believe that they can still vote with the current shortly after 12 September text is a problem. |
| 20:04 | ricardo | danielg: Welcome then :) |
| 20:04 | chris | ricardo: yep if you find any bugs that exist in master, you should patch against master |
| 20:04 | and note if they also apply in 3.0.x | |
| 20:05 | hiya danielg :) | |
| 20:05 | ricardo | chris: Even if I *don't* have a master setup (code + database) but I do have a 3.0.x setup? |
| 20:05 | chris | nengard: i have no idea about your question |
| 20:06 | ricardo: then you could submit it, and say, "this might apply on master also, but i havent tested" | |
| 20:06 | CGI695 left #koha | |
| 20:06 | nengard | thanks chris - good to know i'm not alone |
| 20:06 | off to play with it a bit | |
| 20:06 | chris | we dont have states or zips so its never been an issue for me :) |
| 20:06 | sekjal | hey, danielg! |
| 20:06 | pianohacker | chris: just cities? |
| 20:06 | chris | yep |
| 20:06 | owen | nengard: In the past Koha stored everything as "Athens, OH," city+state in the same field. |
| 20:07 | pianohacker | interesting. hi, danielg |
| 20:07 | chris | we do have postcodes, no one uses them though |
| 20:07 | owen | I thought that someone recently added a state field to the table? |
| 20:07 | nengard | owen and chris - and all - basically the cities, towns is not 100% useful |
| 20:07 | ricardo | chris: Right, agreed. I'm just wondering if we shouldn't let people test Koha 3.0.x more intensely before moving development efforts to 3.2... but I won't make a fuss about this |
| 20:07 | danielg | hi to all saying hi to me! |
| 20:07 | nengard | we need ot make it clear that the city field if for city, state |
| 20:07 | chris_n | nengard++ |
| 20:07 | cait | owen: country not state |
| 20:07 | chris | ricardo: development on 3.2 has been going on for a year now ;) |
| 20:07 | owen | nengard: it works if you populate it with the right data! |
| 20:08 | chris | ricardo: you are supposed to test it before a stable release not after :-) |
| 20:08 | * pianohacker | threatens 3.0 with overgrown, beastly sysprefs editor |
| 20:08 | nengard | grr - okay i'm off to edit the template for the cities/towns page so that it's clear what to add in the form |
| 20:08 | chris | ie 3.0.x was tested before the 3.0.0 release |
| 20:08 | thd | chris: does NZ have automated mail handling? |
| 20:08 | chris | thd: yep |
| 20:08 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 20:08 | chris | but it also has only 4 million people |
| 20:08 | chris_n | hi schuster |
| 20:08 | chris | its not hard to find someone |
| 20:09 | schuster | David Schuster - Plano ISD |
| 20:09 | thd | chris: Do you have barcodes printed at the base of envelopes when they arrive? |
| 20:09 | schuster | Howdy! |
| 20:09 | danielg | hi schuster |
| 20:09 | chris | schuster: you missed it .. daylight savings caught you out |
| 20:09 | thd: some, not most | |
| 20:09 | ricardo | chris: Agreed... But it's hard for me to test 3.0.x branch as it is (to find bugs before they reach 3.0.5 and such). I won't be able to do the testing for both branches, but I guess (and hope!) that other people can do that |
| 20:09 | schuster | phoey guess I'll read the log. |
| 20:10 | danielg | same here |
| 20:10 | chris | thd: i could send a letter, Aunty Dawn, Brunswick Road, Wanganui |
| 20:10 | it would get there | |
| 20:10 | magnusenger | chris: heh, that sounds a bit like norway ;-) |
| 20:10 | chris | thd: we also have deregulated mail service |
| 20:11 | chris_n | deregulation++ |
| 20:11 | opps | |
| 20:11 | chris | most people still use NZ post for domestic mail |
| 20:11 | thd | chris: US Postal Service uses OCR to read envelopes which can interpret CAPTCHA images perfectly. |
| 20:11 | chris | but i use 'Petes Parcels' a lot |
| 20:11 | chris_n | thd: is it tesseract based? |
| 20:12 | ricardo | chris: Which reminds me (forgot to talk about this during the meeting, damn...) - should we have some "Beta" and/or "RC" stage for 3.0.5, before 3.0.5 final (to see if we can attract people that would test it, but don't have / aren't accostumed to git / git snapshots)? |
| 20:12 | chris | cos frankly, the name is awesome |
| 20:12 | * pianohacker | thinks we should add all 4 US timezones plus nzst to meeting notices (maybe just the us, it only seems to be us that get caught out) |
| 20:12 | nengard | bugs reported and one assigned to me - now to remember how to connect via FTP to my local virtual machine ... |
| 20:12 | wizzyrea | lol chris |
| 20:12 | chris | ricardo: nope its a bugfix for a stable release |
| 20:12 | danielg | bye-bye |
| 20:12 | chris | otoh for 3.2 we will have alphas and betas |
| 20:12 | pianohacker | bye, danielg, see you at next meeting |
| 20:12 | thd | chris_n: I have no idea about the basis of the software but their are postal system hackers who test its limits. |
| 20:12 | slef | pianohacker: I added date -d @123123123 to some notices, but that seems to have stopped |
| 20:13 | danielg left #koha | |
| 20:13 | chris | ricardo: your questions are about 1.5 years to late for 3.0.x :-) |
| 20:13 | pianohacker | slef: that command _is_ very useful, but is somewhat limited to those with access to a linux command line |
| 20:14 | slef | pianohacker: everyone has access to one of those. There were also "world time" links in some announcements. |
| 20:14 | ricardo | chris: *nod* It's just that more people are starting to adopt / want to adopt Koha here in Portugal, and I would feel more safe if we could get the "bugfix releases" more tested, that's all |
| 20:14 | ftherese | ok... always trying to find better ways to use the unimarc classification... koha Field author 200$f should I be using that one? |
| 20:14 | chris_n | thd: tesseract is the engine google uses (old HP code iirc) |
| 20:14 | thd: supposed to be some of the best and its FOSS | |
| 20:15 | ricardo | ftherese: Yes, for the author mentions, as they appear in the book cover (that's my understanding, at least) |
| 20:15 | pianohacker | slef: Well, all of the developers, yes. :) I'll just follow up the meeting notices with a quick run-through of times in the US myself |
| 20:15 | thd | chris_n: Oh yes, I had experimented with that slightly. |
| 20:15 | ftherese | chris_n wow! They use tesseract?! I compiled that fo use with linux a few years ago |
| 20:15 | chris_n | http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/ |
| 20:15 | ftherese | it does work well |
| 20:15 | thd | chris_n: I wonder how it does with CAPTCHA. |
| 20:15 | ftherese | plus it is open |
| 20:15 | slef | pianohacker: why are people in the US less competent at telling the time? |
| 20:15 | chris_n | thd: not sure |
| 20:15 | * pianohacker | shrugs |
| 20:16 | chris_n | slef: lol |
| 20:16 | ftherese | what about the other authors? |
| 20:16 | pianohacker | slef: you are a lot closer to gmt than we are |
| 20:16 | slef | I mean, most countries are in only one timezone. |
| 20:16 | ftherese | or do they all get 200$f? |
| 20:16 | ricardo | ftherese: Nope... You should get only one entry in 200$f I think |
| 20:16 | pianohacker | I think it's mainly DST that screwed people up this time, but... |
| 20:17 | slef | pianohacker: so? We have to decode US times more than you get to decode UTC. |
| 20:17 | ftherese | so where do the other ones go? |
| 20:17 | magnusenger left #koha | |
| 20:17 | ftherese | I don't see any koha fields for them? |
| 20:17 | tajoli | In unimarc 200$f and 200 $g are for all aut |
| 20:17 | chris_n | ftherese, thd: I run tesseract integrated with xsane and they work great together |
| 20:17 | tajoli | authors/editors |
| 20:17 | ricardo | ftherese: http://www.unimarc.info/bibliographic/2.3/en/200 |
| 20:17 | slef | pianohacker: we get the additional fun of "which EST is that?" sometimes. |
| 20:17 | pianohacker | slef: well, exactly |
| 20:18 | chris_n | slef: I think some European countries do DST as well |
| 20:18 | tajoli | BUT as are written in frontpage |
| 20:18 | slef | pianohacker: European Summer Time, Eastern Standard Time (US) and Eastern Standard Time (AU) |
| 20:18 | ricardo | chris_n: Sure. Portugal does DST (as do some other countries). |
| 20:18 | slef | chris_n: I think most of us do at the moment. |
| 20:18 | chris | no one cares about AU |
| 20:18 | ricardo | chris: LOL! |
| 20:18 | chris_n | heh |
| 20:18 | thd | ftherese: The statement of responsibility in UNIMARC $200 is only for transcribed authorship statements |
| 20:18 | slef | chris: say that when they're awake |
| 20:18 | chris | slef: they are probably out practicing bowling underarm |
| 20:19 | :-) | |
| 20:19 | pianohacker | slef: reminds me of the "world" series |
| 20:19 | slef | chris: did you see, their rugby team have resorted to playing English club teams? |
| 20:19 | chris | slef: will probably still lose :) |
| 20:19 | ftherese | christ_n: I didn't use it with a scanner, I converted old book scans in pdf format to pdm (I think it was ) and It usually did work pretty well, even with french text |
| 20:19 | slef | chris: hopefully one match :) |
| 20:19 | pianohacker | us_centric_naming++ |
| 20:19 | slef | pianohacker: and conversely, rumours are that the NFL is going to get a European team. |
| 20:20 | pianohacker | Hahaha, there's actually people outside the US that care about american football? |
| 20:21 | that's sad | |
| 20:21 | davi | Australians? |
| 20:22 | chris | pianohacker: wellington has 2 teams |
| 20:22 | ftherese | thd: I am looking at the koha to Marc links in the administration section, and I see no other author input blancs other than the 200$f. Why is that? |
| 20:22 | chris | nzers will play any sport tho |
| 20:22 | pianohacker | hell, you play cricket |
| 20:22 | thd | ftherese: That is a mistaken help message left from Koha 1.9 |
| 20:23 | slef | I saw Aussie rules football on tv yesterday. The channel name was something completely unrelated, though, like "Real Estate TV" |
| 20:23 | thd | ftherese: 200 1#$aThree adventures of Asterix$iAsterix in Switzerland$ftext by Goscinny$gdrawings by Uderzo$gtranslated by Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge. |
| 20:23 | pianohacker | brb foodz |
| 20:24 | ftherese | ahhh |
| 20:25 | thd | ftherese: 200 $f is for the first statement of responsibility 200 $g is for additional statements of resposibility |
| 20:25 | ftherese | lol @ 7-- Intellectual Responsibility Block |
| 20:26 | thd | ftherese: 7XX is for the official name. |
| 20:26 | ftherese | I hope people know they become intellectually responsible for something when they write it!!! |
| 20:26 | ricardo | ftherese: LOL! |
| 20:26 | ftherese: 7XX is for linking names to "Authorities" | |
| 20:31 | ftherese | Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book... I take it... I am looking for just a marc number that works for 1. "the main dude who wrote the book, and who should get the most credit." and then 2. etc. "other dudes who also kinda helped out or something" |
| 20:32 | ricardo | ftherese: "Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book" - agreed. They are also used for "Subjects" as well, for example |
| 20:32 | ftherese | I think I want 200$f and 200$g |
| 20:33 | tajoli left #koha | |
| 20:33 | hdl | ... anyaone there ? |
| 20:34 | chris : I forgot the meeting. | |
| 20:34 | ricardo | ftherese: Yes... You do want those (200$f and 200$g)... but you may also want 7XX (if you want to use "Authorities" for people's names, in order to find that Joseph Ratzinger and Pope Benedict XVI are the one and same person) |
| 20:34 | hdl: LOL! Happens to the best :) | |
| 20:35 | ftherese | ok... thanks ricardo |
| 20:35 | ricardo | ftherese: You're welcome :) |
| 20:35 | wizzyrea | hdl: we missed you :) |
| 20:36 | hdl | I missed you all. |
| 20:36 | ricardo | ftherese: Using other words -> A record will (almost) always have 200$f filled in. Besides that, it *may* also have some 7XX fields filled in, if you're using Authorities |
| 20:36 | hdl | really awfully sorry. |
| 20:36 | wizzyrea | ok, we just had a grant funding board almost deny our grant because they say someone *cough formerly the only us vendor cough* said that community koha wasn't SIP compliant |
| 20:37 | owen | "almost deny" ? |
| 20:37 | wizzyrea | yes, we convinced them to take a second look |
| 20:37 | because it's working right now | |
| 20:37 | not sure what they're smoking | |
| 20:37 | rhcl_away | Did you leave any money for us? |
| 20:37 | rhcl_away is now known as rhcl | |
| 20:37 | wizzyrea | well, are you coming into NExpress? |
| 20:37 | ricardo | wizzyrea: And they accepted it after that -or- are they still evaluating it? |
| 20:37 | wizzyrea | ;) |
| 20:38 | still evaluating | |
| 20:38 | owen | Is said vendor saying this in reference to LEK? |
| 20:38 | rhcl | Is that an invitation? |
| 20:38 | ricardo | wizzyrea: OK, thanks |
| 20:38 | wizzyrea | they consulted a certain vendor's website, yes |
| 20:38 | Colin | wizzyrea: any SIP issues feel free to punt them in my direction |
| 20:38 | wizzyrea | you know, the notorious table of features |
| 20:38 | colin: I will remember you said that :) | |
| 20:38 | * jdavidb | thinks of a paraphrase of Mark Twain: There are lies, damn lies, and... |
| 20:39 | wizzyrea | rhcl: well, actually... you'd have to talk to my boss about that (lol) |
| 20:40 | not sure how the money would work out but we like having biggish libraries in our consortium | |
| 20:40 | owen | "Enhanced SIP2" ? |
| 20:40 | rhcl | BTW, we had an excellent visit in Atchison. |
| 20:40 | wizzyrea | yea, you know, that NEKLS paid for and is mostly in the project already |
| 20:41 | * chris | boggles !!!! |
| 20:41 | nengard | wizzyrea once again sorry you're dealing such stuff :( |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | rhcl: oh good |
| 20:41 | chris | thats stooping even low than usual |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | nengard: nothing to be done about it really. I think we set them straight |
| 20:41 | so you may see a post to the koha list re: sip2 compliance | |
| 20:41 | from one of their representatives | |
| 20:42 | nengard | okey dokey |
| 20:42 | * slef | boggles at the completely unrelated http://www.bikeradar.com/road/[…]ers-on-bike-23846 |
| 20:42 | wizzyrea | I mentioned that I wouldn't personally take any claims from that certain vendor very seriously. |
| 20:42 | slef: the headline alone | |
| 20:43 | priceless: "The mayor, who was cycling past, stopped and chased the girls down the street, calling them 'oiks'. " | |
| 20:43 | chris | wizzyrea: maybe drop atz a note |
| 20:43 | wizzyrea | yea, I was thinking about that actually |
| 20:44 | sekjal | that bloody comparison chart.... very misleading. Is it even true if "Koha Community" = 3.0.2? |
| 20:44 | * pianohacker | finds it very odd that 3.0.x is being pushed as community |
| 20:44 | slef | is there an independent SIP test-suite? |
| 20:44 | pianohacker | when so many koha users are running off git |
| 20:45 | wizzyrea | pianohacker: they say lots of things |
| 20:45 | owen | LibLime now sees the open-source version of Koha purely in "official release" terms |
| 20:45 | pianohacker | especially given that LEK is developed off HEAD |
| 20:45 | wizzyrea | I know. they say lots of misleading things. |
| 20:45 | chris | basically we need control of www.koha.org back |
| 20:45 | owen | pianohacker: Yes, but then they rewrote every line of code to eliminate every bug. |
| 20:46 | pianohacker | of course! |
| 20:46 | wizzyrea | sorry I didn't mean to stir that up |
| 20:46 | :( | |
| 20:46 | sekjal | what the heck is "Patron loading"? |
| 20:46 | * owen | had better quit before he gets too worked up ;) |
| 20:46 | ColinC joined #koha | |
| 20:46 | chris | im glad you brought it up |
| 20:46 | pianohacker | wizzyrea: we're self-stirring |
| 20:46 | owen | See y'all tomorrow |
| 20:47 | pianohacker | bye, owen |
| 20:47 | wizzyrea | I just felt the need to share my irritation about almost being denied a grant over misleading marketing |
| 20:47 | chris_n | bye owen |
| 20:47 | chris | its important we know that this kind of thing is happening |
| 20:47 | owen left #koha | |
| 20:47 | * sekjal | stops, breathes, dials it back down |
| 20:47 | * chris_n | agrees |
| 20:47 | wizzyrea | not to mention that somewhere, someone is saying koha isn't sip2 compliant, which is laughably false |
| 20:48 | chris | sekjal: its in main koha |
| 20:48 | chris_n | we are effectively suffering damages due to misrepresentation |
| 20:48 | chris | yes |
| 20:48 | jdavidb left #koha | |
| 20:48 | ColinC | by coincidence I've just posted a bug in sip2 fix coming |
| 20:49 | sekjal | that's what this whole fork issue is really all about; who gets to control what people know to be "Koha" |
| 20:49 | chris | heh |
| 20:49 | sekjal | codebases fork; its part of life, and a fundamental part of our version control system |
| 20:49 | chris | sekjal: yes, its less a fork, more an attempted hostile takeover |
| 20:49 | ricardo | chris: *nod* |
| 20:49 | chris_n | fork vs FORK maybe |
| 20:49 | * brendan | *sigh* |
| 20:49 | Melanie left #koha | |
| 20:50 | pianohacker | and then there's "offline circulation", but that's been there for a while |
| 20:50 | wizzyrea | oh drat |
| 20:50 | melanie was here | |
| 20:50 | sekjal | but all the spin, misreprentation, and outright lies... that's why I get so worked up over this |
| 20:50 | wizzyrea | she has been having nuts problems with her sip2 and magnetic media wiping |
| 20:50 | davi | What will be the steps we will follow to take over koha.org? |
| 20:50 | wizzyrea | colin: I didnt realize sip2 was partially your baby too |
| 20:51 | * sekjal | stops again, breathes again, ratchets it back more forcefully |
| 20:51 | chris | hehe |
| 20:51 | pianohacker | davi: the official jargon is "restore ownership of koha.org to the community" |
| 20:51 | davi | good |
| 20:51 | slef | chris_n: FORK or FEK? |
| 20:52 | ColinC | I know the protocol well. I'm gathering & posting some patches for oops in it |
| 20:52 | wizzyrea | I think HLT is pursuing private talks with the asset owner. |
| 20:52 | chris | ColinC++ |
| 20:52 | pianohacker | fek sounds like a canadian curse word |
| 20:52 | chris_n | slef:lol |
| 20:52 | chris | wizzyrea: ah well, it's probably best she knows |
| 20:52 | thd | ftherese: are you there? |
| 20:52 | chris_n | ColinC++ |
| 20:53 | Colin left #koha | |
| 20:54 | slef | I'm happy ColinC is working on SIP. Some of the docs contradict each other, some machines seem not to follow them anyway and hardware suppliers are not very responsive. |
| 20:54 | wizzyrea | slef: oi, no kidding |
| 20:54 | slef | I've already two unresponsive supplier developments with RFID and EDI. Share and enjoy. |
| 20:54 | ColinC | Some of the documents have been lost in corporate offices too |
| 20:54 | wizzyrea | we had a deal where one side said "Koha is broken" and the other said "the product is broken" |
| 20:55 | chris | off topic, did anyone understand lee's question about barocdes on the mailing list? |
| 20:55 | ColinC is now known as Colin | |
| 20:55 | wizzyrea | we ended up fixing koha |
| 20:55 | thd | Standards documents could never contradict one another, especially not within the same document. :) |
| 20:55 | Colin | I was tempted to reply. I thought this was fixed 20/30 years ago |
| 20:56 | wizzyrea | I think he's wanting perhaps there to be random generated barcode seed? |
| 20:56 | jwagner left #koha | |
| 20:56 | slef | wizzyrea: I've got something like that with my internet link too. Benefit of FOSS is you can go "here is the source code. Can you explain how it's broken because it passes the test suite and I just can't see it?" |
| 20:56 | wizzyrea | so every koha install has unique barcode |
| 20:56 | s | |
| 20:57 | ricardo | wizzyrea: Maybe he wants something like a GUID (Globally Unique Identifiers) |
| 20:57 | slef | (current internet link fun is wholesaler claiming that my router is consistently interpreting electrical interference as LCP TermReq, which looks pretty impossible in the source code) |
| 20:57 | chris | its a she :) |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | s/he |
| 20:57 | chris | lee from montanan wizzyrea :) |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | :P |
| 20:57 | ricardo | chris: [Koha-Patches] s/he/she ;-) |
| 20:57 | wizzyrea | oh right |
| 20:57 | chris | ill reply saying huh? |
| 20:58 | wizzyrea | probably more like what ricardo is saying |
| 20:58 | sekjal | Aren't barcodes usually physically printed and stuck to the material? |
| 20:58 | chris | yes |
| 20:58 | sekjal | wouldn't changing barcodes in a library require reprocessing all the items? |
| 20:58 | wouldn't most libraries refuse to do that unless forced? | |
| 20:58 | chris | yeah it doesnt sound like a koha problem |
| 20:58 | slef | a barely koha-related question for all the sysadmins: what's the best way of killing process A when process B exits? |
| 20:59 | Colin | its not a project to undertake lightly (seen it done, wrote some support software) |
| 20:59 | brendan | I think lee is asking weither she should listen to the state library and rebarcode her collection for the future |
| 20:59 | wizzyrea | sekjal: yes, it requires rebarcoding, and they only do it in extreme circumstances |
| 20:59 | brendan | ie. a global database for montana |
| 21:00 | pianohacker | slef: I'd go with an while ps ax | grep pid; sleep reasonable_amount_of_time; done; kill other_pid |
| 21:00 | chris_n | chris: sounds like a branch issue to me |
| 21:00 | chris | yeah i basically replied and said, i dont think this is a koha issue, koha doesnt force you to use any particular barcode regime |
| 21:00 | brendan | yup that is correct if I understand correctly |
| 21:01 | SelfishMan | As a library that is being pressured to renumber our collection I can say that we aren't in a rush to switch as it will cost us about $75k |
| 21:01 | slef | pianohacker: complication: other_pid is the first process in a backgrounded pipe. How to get its pid? |
| 21:01 | thd | We should have a way of tracking multiple barcodes |
| 21:01 | SelfishMan | brendan: Yeah, the MT state library is pretty bad for that |
| 21:01 | wizzyrea | i mean, we make our libraries issue new cards for exactly this reason |
| 21:01 | pianohacker | slef: Hmm. is this a one-time thing? If not, you could use pgrep -f |
| 21:01 | SelfishMan | I've worked with our director to figure out an option that should work fine though |
| 21:02 | slef | pianohacker: this is a scripted thing |
| 21:02 | sekjal | thd: agreed. my old ILS allowed multiple barcodes, and now some of our items aren't scanning right |
| 21:02 | thd | Multiple barcodes per item could be useful and often exist in the real world |
| 21:03 | cait | Colin? |
| 21:03 | sekjal | the two barcodes got concat'ed into the barcode field (separated by " | "), and cut off after 30 char |
| 21:04 | chris_n | sekjal: the present method of storing barcodes is rather problematic |
| 21:04 | pianohacker | slef: If you moved the backgrounded pipe into its own process, either by making a separate script or by some other trickery, you could simply background the separate process, then only have one thing to kill |
| 21:04 | slef | pondering doing wait $! ; kill $(expr $! - 1) |
| 21:05 | no trickery, just & on end of line | |
| 21:05 | cait | Colin: I just saw your bug 3767, is it possible its the same bug reported by easycheck (vendor from our koha library) bug 3696)? |
| 21:05 | munin | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3767 enhancement, P5, ---, joe.atzbergerliblime.com, NEW, Invalid barcodes in checkin cause sip connection to terminate |
| 21:05 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3696 major, P3, ---, joe.atzbergerliblime.com, NEW, checking in invalid item causes break of comm |
|
| 21:06 | chris_n | bbl |
| 21:06 | wizzyrea | ooh, I like the description of that second one |
| 21:06 | pianohacker | slef: It looks like your trick would probably be the easiest |
| 21:06 | ricardo | wizzyrea: LOL |
| 21:06 | sekjal | hmmm, time to grab some groceries and head home to cook them. |
| 21:06 | wizzyrea | humor in bug reports. I like it |
| 21:06 | slef | pianohacker: do pipelines always have consecutive PIDs? |
| 21:06 | sekjal | good <localtime>, #koha |
| 21:07 | sekjal left #koha | |
| 21:07 | ricardo | wizzyrea: I think it should be "checking in invalid item causes break of comm NO CARRIER" ;-) |
| 21:07 | cait | dont know if the humor was intended |
| 21:07 | wizzyrea | HEHEHE |
| 21:07 | pianohacker | slef: A quick test says that they _usually_ do |
| 21:07 | ricardo | wizzyrea: :) |
| 21:07 | pianohacker | bit of a race condition, tho |
| 21:08 | if the context isn't super-crucial, probably good enough | |
| 21:08 | wizzyrea | cait: those bugs look extremely similar to me |
| 21:09 | cait | yes, I think they are |
| 21:10 | Colin | cait: yes it is the same. path coming |
| 21:11 | thats patch not path | |
| 21:11 | cait | wizzyrea: self check works really good for our library - no phone calls so far and 750 checkouts and 500+ check ins - only 2 small bugs I know of, this is one of them |
| 21:12 | Colin | cait: what units are connected? |
| 21:12 | * ricardo | sighs because of data migration project work (to get data from proprietary system, using non-standard format, into Koha) |
| 21:13 | cait | sorry, dont know if I understand your question correctly |
| 21:13 | Colin | Who supplies the self check units |
| 21:13 | cait | they have one self check out station for check out and check in, no sorting, just a shelf for check ins, we dont allow renewals, this seemed to be problematic |
| 21:13 | its a german vendor - easycheck | |
| 21:15 | we did a lot of testing, we provided test cases and got feedback from easycheck. | |
| 21:16 | wizzyrea | ours are 3M RFID machines |
| 21:17 | they work very well, we haven't even heard reports of the invalid barcode problem | |
| 21:17 | (which either means all of the barcodes are in the system or we've just been really lucky( | |
| 21:19 | cait | wizzyrea: dont know :) I think it does not happen very often, we discovered in testing, I had a test case for that. did not happen in the library so far. |
| 21:19 | francharb left #koha | |
| 21:20 | Colin | some units validate the barcode some dont and pass the misreads |
| 21:23 | cait | Colin: I think its not only about misreads, but could also happen when an item is accidently deleted from koha |
| 21:26 | Colin | Yes or if you put a barcode on a book but it never got added to the db |
| 21:26 | cait | we should mark one og the bugs as duplicate |
| 21:27 | Colin | I will. I added your bug number to the commit as well |
| 21:27 | cait | thx Colin :) |
| 21:32 | collum left #koha | |
| 21:34 | hdl | good night |
| 21:34 | pianohacker | good night, hdl |
| 21:36 | Colin | gnight hdl |
| 21:37 | chris | night hdl |
| 21:40 | ricardo | Does anyone know what Koha version is installed in Kyle Hall's Virtual Machines? |
| 21:40 | chris | the about page would tell ya |
| 21:40 | ricardo | It seems to be 3.0.1 |
| 21:40 | http://sourceforge.net/project[…]tual%20Appliance/ | |
| 21:41 | chris | probably, it is a little bit old now |
| 21:41 | ricardo | chris: yeah. |
| 21:41 | chris: I have to use that information for replying to Jaqueline (she replied me off-list , meaning off the "Koha Translate" list). I won't be able to reply today, though | |
| 21:42 | chris | righto |
| 21:42 | ricardo | OK. Leaving towards home now... Take care everyone :) |
| 21:42 | chris | yeah, i have a backlog of mail i have to reply to, will try to tonigh |
| 21:42 | in between fireworks | |
| 21:42 | ricardo | chris: LOL! |
| 21:42 | chris | remember remember the 5th of november |
| 21:42 | brendan | fireworks? |
| 21:42 | chris | guy fawkes day |
| 21:43 | brendan | oh right cool |
| 21:43 | ricardo | chris: Nice... Always a good day to (re)watch "V for Vendetta" ;-) |
| 21:43 | wizzyrea | ooh yes |
| 21:43 | Colin | The only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions |
| 21:43 | chris | :) |
| 21:43 | * wizzyrea | makes a mental note to break out V for Vendetta tomorrow |
| 21:43 | pianohacker | s/parliament/any government building/g |
| 21:43 | ricardo | wizzyrea: :) |
| 21:44 | pianohacker: Hey, I'm a public servant, you insensitive clod! ;-) | |
| 21:44 | chris | personally i use the 5th to remember parihaka instead |
| 21:44 | pianohacker | ricardo: Hey, so am I (technically) |
| 21:44 | chris | http://www.parihaka.com/About.aspx |
| 21:45 | wizzyrea | ricardo: actually it appears that the virtual appliances are 3.0.1 |
| 21:45 | er | |
| 21:45 | sorry | |
| 21:45 | 3.01 | |
| 21:45 | pianohacker | never have quite understood the funding model of my library |
| 21:45 | chris | "The invasion of the settlement on the 5th of November 1881 by 1500 militia and armed members of the constabulary was the result of greed for Māori owned land and the quest for power by politicians and settlers. Parihaka had become a haven for the dispossessed from througout the country." |
| 21:45 | ricardo | wizzyrea: 3.01 = 3.0.1 I believe. But thanks :) |
| 21:45 | pianohacker | I guess that's why they don't pay me the big bucks |
| 21:45 | ricardo | pianohacker: LOL! |
| 21:45 | pianohacker: I think I know a good joke about that, but it's in cartoon form (difficult to search) | |
| 21:46 | chris | Then in 1881 it was the scene of one of the worst infringements of civil and human rights ever committed and witnessed in this country. |
| 21:46 | wizzyrea | ricardo: i'm not sure, 3.01 is claimed to be an upgrade from 3.0.4, whereas 3.0.1 would be a downgrade from 3.0.4 |
| 21:46 | chris | much more salient thing to remember than guy fawkes :) |
| 21:46 | wizzyrea | am I high? |
| 21:46 | nengard | are you? |
| 21:46 | pianohacker | chris: yeah |
| 21:46 | chris | 3.01.01 would be an upgrade |
| 21:46 | wizzyrea | ok, yes |
| 21:47 | chris | but there has never ever been an 3.01.x release |
| 21:47 | ricardo | wizzyrea: I think you mean "3.1"... and it seems that we are moving directly towards "3.2". But I admit I'm paying more attention to 3.0.x |
| 21:47 | pianohacker | wizzyrea: There's a possibility for confusion: current git version numbers are like 3.01.00.061 |
| 21:47 | wizzyrea | no sir, I mean 3.01 |
| 21:47 | there's no official release for that | |
| 21:47 | chris | ricardo: odd second numbers are unstable |
| 21:47 | pianohacker | 3.01 is the perl-version-number way of saying 3.1, which is the unstable of 3.2 by linux kernel standards |
| 21:47 | wizzyrea | pianohacker right |
| 21:47 | ricardo | chris: Like in Linux Kernel tradition, right? OK |
| 21:47 | wizzyrea | so |
| 21:48 | ricardo | pianohacker: *nod* |
| 21:48 | wizzyrea | that said, the download says 3.01 |
| 21:48 | chris | 3.0.x = stable 3.2.x = stable (they can be written as 3.00.x and 3.02.x .. 3.1 = 3.01) |
| 21:48 | wizzyrea | :) |
| 21:48 | pianohacker | 3.01 != 3.0.1 |
| 21:48 | * pianohacker | breathes out |
| 21:48 | pianohacker | *phew* |
| 21:48 | chris | wizzyrea: so thats eitehr a typo |
| 21:48 | ricardo | pianohacker: LOL! |
| 21:48 | wizzyrea | or it's right and what he intended |
| 21:48 | chris | or its based off master branch, and not a release |
| 21:48 | wizzyrea | it must be based off of master |
| 21:48 | and not a release | |
| 21:49 | there's a download for 3.0.1 and for 3.01 | |
| 21:49 | slef | pianohacker: kill $(ps --ppid $$ --no-heading opid) inside the pipeline works. ewww ;-) |
| 21:49 | chris | right |
| 21:49 | ricardo | wizzyrea: OK |
| 21:49 | Well, thanks for replying. Leaving now. Take care! :) | |
| 21:49 | pianohacker | slef: hey, whatever works :P shell scripts ain't supposed to be pretty |
| 21:49 | bye, ricardo, sleep well | |
| 21:50 | wizzyrea | I think it's right, he labels them 3.0.1 "official release" or 3.01.00.32 |
| 21:50 | Colin | boa noite |
| 21:50 | wizzyrea | bye, ttyl :) |
| 21:50 | (sorry, that's one I get on about because it's easy to be misled) | |
| 21:50 | chris | yeah, labelling with their full numbers is much more useful |
| 21:50 | * wizzyrea | demands precisioin! |
| 21:51 | ricardo | Bye pianohacker, chris, slef and wizzyrea! :) |
| 21:51 | ricardo left #koha | |
| 21:51 | * wizzyrea | succumbs to a spelling fail |
| 21:51 | demands precision! | |
| 21:51 | wizzyrea | much better |
| 21:51 | chris | oh i just noticed |
| 21:51 | LEK doesnt support titles for books | |
| 21:51 | wizzyrea | LOL |
| 21:51 | cait | huh? |
| 21:51 | wizzyrea | that is win all over the place |
| 21:52 | chris | cait: fighting fud with fud |
| 21:52 | cait | ah |
| 21:53 | wizzyrea | oh OH a FUD fight! |
| 21:54 | chris | he |
| 21:54 | h | |
| 21:54 | pianohacker | dangit, and I just used up the last of the whipped cream |
| 21:56 | * wizzyrea | goes to check for rotten tomatoes |
| 21:57 | chris | so does the new mexico state libary use koha? |
| 21:58 | brendan | no idea -- but I have seen them poking around on the mailing list |
| 21:58 | chris | *nod* |
| 21:59 | * chris_n2 | cooks up breakfast |
| 21:59 | chris | id look, but their website doesnt want to load |
| 22:01 | Colin | It says powered by dynix in big letters |
| 22:02 | As a horizon user they are probably thinking about change | |
| 22:02 | chris | guess they must be just evaluating |
| 22:02 | yeah | |
| 22:02 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKhrEFzLfM | |
| 22:02 | heres the video im gonna use for the kohacon10 invites | |
| 22:05 | brendan | ahhh NZ - can't wait :) |
| 22:08 | cait left #koha | |
| 22:08 | brendan | so the question is -- does chris appear anywhere in the video |
| 22:08 | Nate | gnite #koha |
| 22:08 | Nate left #koha | |
| 22:10 | chris | not that one, but my hand is in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SblTKIZoInI |
| 22:10 | brendan | the famous hand :) |
| 22:11 | chris | lemme find it again hehe |
| 22:13 | Nate joined #koha | |
| 22:14 | Nate | By the way Chris that video is SWEET! |
| 22:14 | k thats all bye for real | |
| 22:14 | Nate left #koha | |
| 22:18 | chris_n2 | come and get it... ;-) |
| 22:18 | chris | :) |
| 22:19 | brendan: somewhere roudn the 5.50 mark | |
| 22:19 | brendan | nice was thinking 5:56 |
| 22:19 | chris | :) |
| 22:19 | was an awesome concert that | |
| 22:20 | brendan | did you have a bracelet on? |
| 22:20 | chris | the one for getting into the gig yeah |
| 22:20 | brendan | :) |
| 22:21 | thd | chris: There is a koha-devel question about migrating from Sirsi which has gone unanswered. Are you worried about painting a target on ourselves for non-library respondents to point him in the correct direction? |
| 22:22 | chris | nope, i just didnt have a right direction to point him |
| 22:22 | i was hoping someone who had recently migrated would speak up | |
| 22:23 | the horizon libraries i have been involved in, were running old old versions | |
| 22:23 | thd | chris: I could point him to some recent migration work and refer him to a SirsDynix API script for migrating data out of the system. |
| 22:24 | schuster | Are they Horizon or Unicorn? |
| 22:24 | I have not read the post yet.. | |
| 22:24 | Colin | Horizon |
| 22:24 | schuster | Then API scripts won't matter as those are Unicorn. |
| 22:25 | I'll try and answer him tonight when I have a chance to read the post - as we migrated with LL help in Nov of 08 and went live in Jan 09 | |
| 22:25 | chris | awesome schuster |
| 22:25 | schuster left #koha | |
| 22:25 | thd | What I had read about the API is that it covered both Unicorn and Horizon. |
| 22:26 | There is a very recent script which may cover both systems. | |
| 22:29 | Colin | The two systems are totally different in structure |
| 22:29 | ftherese | why is it that I have results in a reservoir, and none in the catalog? |
| 22:30 | thd | Colin: they could be different and yet use an API which had a unified dialogue on the front end with divergent code for the back end. |
| 22:31 | ftherese: You have to add records from the reservoir to the catalogue. | |
| 22:31 | ftherese | I want to add them all... what do I do thd? |
| 22:32 | thd | ftherese: If you use the bulkmarkimport.pl script then you can bypass all that reservoir nonsense. |
| 22:32 | ftherese | where do I get that? |
| 22:32 | Colin | thd: I think that will be more marketing then reality. |
| 22:32 | thd | ftherese: I am not exactly certain of the procedure for taking material out of the reservoir because I avoid it. |
| 22:33 | ftherese: bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools I believe | |
| 22:36 | ftherese: yes, bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools in the code repository and should also be in a similar subdirectory of wherever you installed Koha. | |
| 22:36 | ftherese: 200 1#$aSons and lovers $fby D H Lawrance. 700 #1$aLawrence$bD.H.$gDavid Herbert | |
| 22:37 | ftherese: The above shows the use of both 200 $f and 700 in the same UNIMARC record. | |
| 22:37 | ftherese | ok... my problem is also for adding items correctly |
| 22:38 | because I have several duplicates copies of books | |
| 22:38 | if I add the marc file... how can I tell it not to add duplicate item information | |
| 22:38 | thd | ftherese: The 700 authority form of the name disambiguates for all the other D H Lawrances of the world. |
| 22:38 | ftherese | lol |
| 22:40 | thd | ftherese: There are 16 different Thomas Manns in the Harvard libraries' collection. |
| 22:40 | ftherese: Or some large number last time I counted | |
| 22:40 | ftherese | so how do I deal with multiple copies of the same book? |
| 22:41 | thd | ftherese: Yes, do you not want to record the multiple copies? |
| 22:42 | ftherese: You can have them all in the bibliographic record by repeating the 995 field for holdings. | |
| 22:42 | ftherese | right... but when I do the import how do I deal with that |
| 22:42 | I would need to filter it using the bulkmarkimport.pl script | |
| 22:46 | thd | ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a 995 which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes. |
| 22:47 | ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a bibliographic record and within each bibliographic record a 995 for each item which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes. | |
| 22:50 | ftherese: Writing your own Perl script to create the UNIMARC records from your CVS files using MARC::Record would be a very effective way to accomplish the task. | |
| 22:51 | ftherese: People use programs such as MARCEdit for many things but a GUI program such as MARCEdit may not give the level of control which you need. | |
| 22:52 | ftherese: If you ask on the koha mailing list someone may already have a script for you. | |
| 22:53 | nengard left #koha | |
| 22:53 | thd | ftherese: Most likely their script would be for MARC 21 so you would simply need to make adjustments for UNIMARC. |
| 22:56 | ftherese | I speak many languages... but not perl :( |
| 22:57 | pianohacker | ftherese: What human languages do you speak, out of curiosity? |
| 23:01 | thd | ftherese: If someone already has a script, then changing it would not be especially difficult even without real Perl knowledge. |
| 23:01 | ftherese: Do you know Python? | |
| 23:02 | slef | heh http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/r[…]x_regions_en.html |
| 23:02 | ftherese | thd: no I don't know Python either... I have always hoped I could avoid those two... |
| 23:02 | pianohacker: just french and spanish | |
| 23:02 | thd | ftherese: Do you know PHP? |
| 23:02 | ftherese | <groan> no </groan> |
| 23:03 | chris | ruby? |
| 23:03 | ftherese | nope |
| 23:03 | wow... laundry list of languages I don't know | |
| 23:03 | I mean... I can usually understand what a script does by looking at it | |
| 23:03 | and even tweak it | |
| 23:04 | thd | ftherese: Exactly. |
| 23:04 | ftherese | but, do something from scratch?!? expecially when I don't know the data structures!?!?!? |
| 23:04 | pianohacker | sounds rather like my understanding of spanish... |
| 23:04 | thd | ftherese: If someone has a script which does what you want for MARC 21 you could fix it to work for UNIMARC. |
| 23:05 | ftherese | I believe that is not a complete overestimation of my capacities |
| 23:05 | so... in theory... yes... it might take me a few days... and frustration | |
| 23:06 | but once I started I wouldn't be able to stop until I had it... so if there was a script for Marc 21 I could probably change it for UniMarc | |
| 23:07 | thd | ftherese: There had been an old script for importing from Filemaker for Koha 2. |
| 23:07 | ftherese | hmmm... |
| 23:08 | a bit late for that one... | |
| 23:08 | thd | ftherese: I know all about Filemaker and its limitations. You would definitely be better off with Koha. |
| 23:08 | ftherese | unless the script was REALLY REALLY good |
| 23:09 | thd | ftherese: What do you mean by late? |
| 23:09 | ftherese | too late for the filemaker script |
| 23:09 | thd | ftherese: Why too late? What is too late? |
| 23:10 | ftherese: Are you referring to some deadline of yours? | |
| 23:10 | ftherese | well... unless the filemaker script is REALLY REALLY good... I've already gone beyond needing help moving my data out of filemaker |
| 23:10 | no... I don't have a deadline | |
| 23:11 | thd | ftherese: I think that the script did something useful with the exported data which is what you need. |
| 23:12 | ftherese | unless, for example, I could use the script to move - in one fell swoop - all the data in my filemaker databases directly into the koha catalog... I am afraid I would be backpeddling |
| 23:15 | Colin left #koha | |
| 23:17 | thd | ftherese: Ask on the Koha mailing list. Other people have had the same problem and it is likely that someone would share a solution. |
| 23:17 | ftherese | ok |
| 23:19 | thd | ftherese: There are some configuration issues which you may need to address for UNIMARC Koha because some of the defaults have left too much work for the librarian. You could ask for people to share those also. |
| 23:20 | ftherese: Requests for UNIMARC defaults such as better configured Koha UNIMARC frameworks from someone who would share might be best asked on the French Koha mailing list. | |
| 23:23 | ftherese: I have a script for capturing Koha MARC frameworks which could help if you find someone who wants to share his Koha MARC frameworks but does not know how. | |
| 23:24 | ftherese | should I mail the regular list or the dev. list? |
| 23:25 | thd | ftherese: I would send a message to the user's or general list first. |
| 23:25 | ftherese: More people see that one. | |
| 23:26 | ftherese | ok |
| 23:26 | thd | ftherese: If you have no success on the users' list after a few days, the try the devel list. |
| 23:32 | ftherese: Request anything which might help if you ask for UNIMARC that may scare away most response. | |
| 23:33 | ftherese | ok... I'll keep that in mind |
| 23:34 | thd | ftherese: Mention that you would be happy to convert a script designed for MARC 21. |
| 23:45 | schuster joined #koha | |
| 23:45 | schuster | Question - with all the thing that have been dropped... Are the sounds in circ still there for 3.2? |
| 23:46 | chris | s/dropped/withheld/ |
| 23:46 | you would have to ask galen that, ill do a quick search tho | |
| 23:46 | do you have a bug number? | |
| 23:49 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 23:49 | chris | http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1080 |
| 23:49 | munin | 04Bug 1080: enhancement, P2, ---, oleonardmyacpl.org, NEW, How about telling the template to make a noise on circulation errors? |
| 23:49 | chris | there are patches there |
| 23:50 | someone would need to tidy them up and resubmit them | |
| 23:52 | brendan | some old notes that I had - |
| 23:52 | A wave file will play when a bad barcode is entered in checkin or checkout. | |
| 23:52 | The following code is added at line 143 of circulation.tmpl and line 241 of returns.tmpl | |
| 23:52 | <!-- Play a sound if the item is bad--> | |
| 23:52 | <EMBED src="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/sounds [ remove highlighting ]/error.wav" | |
| 23:52 | type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> | |
| 23:53 | but that looks the same as the patch - i why I think that never was pushed |
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