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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:01 | hdl_laptop | gmcharlt: Are you working on reconciliation ? |
| 13:09 | gmcharlt | hdl_laptop: yes |
| 13:11 | hdl_laptop | gmcharlt: bug me if you need any explanation |
| 14:03 | gmcharlt | atz: re your circ patches, I think the approach is fine |
| 14:03 | I will be doing a bit more testing before I push them | |
| 14:15 | Snow_Fox | hey quick question |
| 14:15 | how does koha handle overdue notices? | |
| 14:15 | pianohacker | Through a nightly cronjob |
| 14:15 | Settings for each borrower category are under tools | |
| 14:18 | SirStan | What causes `/etc/koha/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg' to be generated? |
| 14:18 | gmcharlt | SirStan: perl Makefile.PL, make install |
| 14:19 | pianohacker | SirStan: That should be installed with the rest of Koha |
| 14:19 | SirStan | it isnt |
| 14:19 | gmcharlt | source is etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg |
| 14:19 | SirStan | mm ../usr/local/src/koha-3.00.02/etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg |
| 14:19 | gmcharlt | you have to have chosen to instsall the Zebra config files when you go through the Makefile.PL questions |
| 14:19 | SirStan | ah. |
| 14:32 | Snow_Fox | hey instead of recieving a email about user over due notices is there a way to dump that info to a file for processing for print jobs? |
| 14:32 | pianohacker | Snow_Fox: I think there's a CSV output option |
| 14:32 | Snow_Fox | kk thankyou |
| 14:33 | jwagner | Snow_Fox, we are working on an enhancement for a client to dump notices to an HTML file for people without email addresses. Then that file can be called up in the browser and printed. |
| 14:46 | rhcl | @seen chris |
| 14:46 | munin | rhcl: chris was last seen in #koha 5 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <chris> evening |
| 14:48 | pianohacker | He usually comes in around 1-2:00 mountain time (7-8:00 AM his time) |
| 14:52 | |Lupin| | hello there ! |
| 14:52 | pianohacker | morning |
| 14:53 | |Lupin| | can't stay very ong but I'd like to ask if someone could explain what biblio, biblioitem and item are or perhaps point to relevant documentation ? |
| 14:53 | hi pianohacker | |
| 14:54 | pianohacker | |Lupin|: biblio and biblioitem both contain information about the whole record (used to be more separate; they will be merged soon), and items contains information about single items |
| 14:56 | |Lupin| | pianohacker: ah, so there will be only two things ultimately, biblio which is generic bibliographic data, and biblio-item which conains informaton specific to each book. Right ? |
| 14:56 | pianohacker | Well, there'll be biblio, which contains information on each book, and items, which contains information each copy |
| 14:57 | *on each copy | |
| 14:57 | If I have five copies of Moby Dick, there'll be one entry in biblio and five entries in items | |
| 14:57 | |Lupin| | pianohacker: okay, thanks, I think I got it. |
| 14:57 | pianohacker | Currently, there would be one entry in biblio, one entry in biblioitems and five entries in items |
| 14:58 | Cool; it's weird, took me some time to get used to | |
| 14:58 | |Lupin| | pianohacker: now imagine you have a book but in several formats. Would it be correct to use one item entry for each of them ? |
| 14:58 | Lybrarian | at Kohacon, didn't they say biblioitems is redundant and going away soon? |
| 14:58 | pianohacker | Lybrarian: Yup, will be merged into biblio |
| 14:59 | Lybrarian | Lupin different formats should have different bib records |
| 14:59 | pianohacker | |Lupin|: That really depends on the librarie's policy |
| 14:59 | |Lupin| | are there some recommandations about it ? |
| 15:00 | Lybrarian: but then they should be generated automatically by the system... | |
| 15:00 | pianohacker | I'd go with what Lybrarian said, and then try combining certain very similar formats and seeing how it works for you |
| 15:00 | For instance, at our library, if we have the game X-men legends for the Xbox and PS2, we have one bib for both of them | |
| 15:01 | |Lupin| | I thought it would be okay to have only one record with multiple 852 unimarc fields... |
| 15:01 | Lybrarian | Cataloging decisions like that are up to the library - we try to think in terms of what's best for the patron trying to place an item on hold...if they want the DVD and not the VHS, there need to be 2 separate bib records |
| 15:02 | wizzyrea | lybrarian++ |
| 15:02 | pianohacker | Lybrarian: Ahh, since you might have multiple copies of each, and Koha currently does not allow you to restrict the hold to multiple items ? |
| 15:05 | |Lupin| | I see |
| 15:05 | will have to experiment | |
| 15:06 | thanks anyway for having clarified the item/bibli/biblioitem issue ! | |
| 15:06 | take care all and have a nice week-end. be ! | |
| 15:19 | Elwell_ | ditto. |
| 15:24 | Lybrarian | pianohacker we are sponsoring an enhancement to allow multiple item-level holds (from the staff client) |
| 15:24 | but normally, no we do not allow patrons to pick and choose which item they want to place on hold - they're stuck with 'next available' | |
| 15:24 | wizzyrea | question: what data is supposed to show in the reserve/request.pl existing holds "notes" column? |
| 15:25 | we don't show any data at all, which is curious | |
| 15:25 | pianohacker | wizzyrea: I would think the note field that is filled in when you place the hold </maybenotthismightbeabug> |
| 15:25 | wizzyrea | was going to file a bug/make a suggestion on what to put there |
| 15:26 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: there is a reserves.reservesnotes column |
| 15:26 | wizzyrea | nm, it's working I"m dumb :) |
| 15:26 | turns out nobody puts in notes :P | |
| 15:26 | hence, no data | |
| 16:45 | SirStan | Where does koha put its conf file after make install? |
| 16:45 | I ask; because it didnt seem to put it anywhere. | |
| 16:46 | or maybe i symlinked the /etc/koha dir. | |
| 16:46 | bad user. | |
| 16:50 | wizzyrea | joetho: mibbit doesn't work with freenode anymore |
| 16:50 | see our new link at www.nexpresslibrary.org | |
| 16:50 | you will hate this. | |
| 16:51 | joetho | I just turned my computer on |
| 16:51 | go easy on me | |
| 16:51 | pianohacker | Hmm. That's actually much nicer than mibbit, in my eyes |
| 16:52 | *to my eyes? I dunno | |
| 16:55 | SirStan | that page makes me think microsoft/shaerpoint |
| 16:55 | or whatever joomla|drupla cms has that same blue border theme | |
| 17:09 | jdavidb | Howdy, gmcharlt. :) |
| 17:10 | gmcharlt | hi jdavidb |
| 17:14 | SirStan | shouldnt zebrasrv -c /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml start zerbra? |
| 17:14 | pianohacker | zebrasrv -f .../koha-conf.xml |
| 17:15 | SirStan | ah |
| 17:43 | wizzyrea | @bug 3345 |
| 17:43 | munin | wizzyrea: 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3345 normal, P5, ---, galen.charltonliblime.com, NEW, Return All items on patron detail does not initiate transfer of holds |
| 17:43 | wizzyrea | anybody have ideas on how to handle that? |
| 17:43 | gmcharlt | wizzyrea: refactoring returns code |
| 17:44 | so that events that should be triggered by the return of an item | |
| 17:44 | are handing lower down in the API | |
| 17:44 | and tweaking the UI to deal with multiple return messages | |
| 17:44 | atz | a moderately large project |
| 17:45 | gmcharlt | smaller would be having code detect when a return would trigger such a message |
| 17:45 | pianohacker | Enhancement sponsorship on this could involve chipping in for the necessary lobotomy for the developer in question |
| 17:45 | gmcharlt | and have it either block such returns (requiring the operator to handle them one at a time) |
| 17:46 | or (I suppose) have it spawn a bunch of popup windows, each handling an individual return for such items | |
| 17:46 | pianohacker | gmcharlt: The latter is roughly the approach I took with ajaxcirc, seemed to work well |
| 17:47 | gmcharlt | or, possibly, disable return all from the patron details page, on the theory that you should be scanning each item barcode anyway just to make sure that the patron has in fact returned all of their items ;) |
| 17:50 | wizzyrea | YES, see that's what I was thinking |
| 17:50 | re: disable | |
| 17:50 | <whine>"but winnebago does it!!"</whine> | |
| 17:51 | pianohacker | Hmm. First result for winnebago was a mailing list post about migrating away from it |
| 17:51 | </badsign> | |
| 17:51 | wizzyrea | ikorite |
| 17:51 | kno* | |
| 17:52 | atz | you could have it post to a returns page that just queues the items from details while prompting them to scan |
| 17:52 | pianohacker | Thus requiring them to scan, but still allowing multiple returns |
| 17:52 | atz | basically the same a link to returns w/ a fancy add on of what you expect to get through... still not a magical as they would want, i'm sure |
| 17:53 | *same as | |
| 17:53 | wizzyrea | well to me, I don't think it SHOULD work, ad here's why: |
| 17:53 | 1. winnebago never had to deal with transfers, so you would have never had this problem | |
| 17:54 | 2. staff should look at the screen when returning items to make sure the right thing is getting returned | |
| 17:54 | atz | good points |
| 17:54 | wizzyrea | 3. almost any way that you fix it is going to either trade human clock cycles for machine ones, or machine cycles for human ones |
| 17:55 | so you might not gain anything | |
| 17:55 | gmcharlt | human clock cycles are almost always more valuable |
| 17:55 | atz | "let teh machine handle it! teh machine is majickal!" |
| 17:56 | wizzyrea | nah, it's not sore for me |
| 17:56 | atz | i think 1 and 2 are good enough arguments |
| 17:56 | wizzyrea | in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated |
| 17:57 | because you get the "but x did it this way and that's what I know so that's what I want" | |
| 17:57 | atz | i imagine it is hardest for libraries that have seen exactly one automation system |
| 17:57 | if they've already migrated 5 times in 10 years, they probably dont care anymore | |
| 17:57 | pianohacker | @quote add < wizzyrea> in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated |
| 17:57 | munin | pianohacker: The operation succeeded. Quote #8 added. |
| 17:57 | wizzyrea | atz++ yes, that has been our experience |
| 17:58 | atz | it's hard to forget your first time. |
| 17:59 | ah... multiLIS | |
| 17:59 | gmcharlt | Dynix Classic for me |
| 18:01 | Sharon | The issue is time - when you have a patron bringing in a stack of 50 items...what's the most efficient way to check them in? |
| 18:02 | atz | Sharon... truncate issues table. |
| 18:02 | pianohacker | Switch to RFID |
| 18:02 | atz | boom. they're checked in. |
| 18:02 | pianohacker | UPDATE items SET onloan = '' |
| 18:02 | Sharon | I don't know what that means. I'm just trying to put in some practicality |
| 18:02 | atz | Sharon: the question is "how do you know it's 50 items"? |
| 18:03 | you still have to scan each item (or RFID it) to know what you have | |
| 18:03 | Sharon | when you check in the first, it pulls up the patron's record, showing you the other 49 they might be bringing back. Then you can figure out how to do a mass check in |
| 18:03 | spit out the exceptions (transfers and holds) for scanning | |
| 18:04 | atz | you need to scan them or you don't know what they really are |
| 18:04 | you'll get books from other libraries or the patron's private books | |
| 18:05 | Sharon | yes, that's the bug |
| 18:06 | atz | i'm sure to a small library, it seems like "oh, I checked those out to Sam last week, I know what they are" |
| 18:06 | but it doesn't scale | |
| 18:10 | wizzyrea | ok how about this |
| 18:10 | I had a thought | |
| 18:11 | (dangerous I know) | |
| 18:11 | what if | |
| 18:11 | instead of processing all checkins one at a time you did it kind of like winnebago where you scan them all (like, into a form) and then say "submit" | |
| 18:12 | and it processes all at once, checks in the ones it can, but gives you a printed output of items that require further attention | |
| 18:12 | atz | that would be doable |
| 18:12 | wizzyrea | sort of how the rfid in basehor works |
| 18:12 | atz | still a moderately large project |
| 18:12 | wizzyrea | similar idea |
| 18:14 | dk, I'd have to see that implemented to see if I liked it... I mean, I've worked in winnebago and I always thought it was stupid how that checkin worked, but sharon has some good points about how it works practically when in a library | |
| 18:14 | and the workflow of that might actually be a little better | |
| 18:14 | and would cost fewer requests to the server, too | |
| 18:14 | at least web requests | |
| 18:18 | atz: I have no doubt that would be a large project. and it would totally change how it works, which could be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint. | |
| 18:18 | atz | the hellish part would be keeping it and regular returns page in sync |
| 18:18 | wizzyrea | or eliminate that functionality from the details page, and keep it all on the returns page |
| 18:19 | but there's probably a reason not to do that | |
| 18:19 | actually, the same library that pointed out the problem with return all had that suggestion | |
| 18:20 | put more of the functionality on the circulation pages | |
| 18:21 | dk, thanks for the discussion. | |
| 18:21 | :) | |
| 18:35 | pianohacker | brb |
| 18:46 | joetho | Having to check in 50 books instantly (or close to instantly); Is this a reasonable thing to ask of an ILS? |
| 18:48 | I like the idea of a "bulk check-in button" allowing you to scan in a bunch of books (with maybe a numerical limit) and preview the results before hitting "submit" | |
| 18:48 | a different process than a regular individual checkin | |
| 18:49 | that would check in the regular ones, and generate an "action window" or something for the ones that have holds, fines, etc | |
| 18:52 | Snow_Fox | anyone know off the top of there head what the patron photo requirements are for koha? |
| 18:55 | atz | joetho: it's not a technical problem... it's that you don't really know what you are asking the ILS to do. |
| 18:55 | it's list of 50 books may more may not have anything to do with the 50 books in front of you | |
| 18:55 | *its | |
| 18:56 | but other than that, the bulk returns idea is feasible. a "chunk" of returns at once instead of 1 at a time. | |
| 18:56 | "nearline" circ | |
| 18:58 | joetho | I agree it is not a technical problem. This may be an example of a staff workflow problem looking for a technical solution |
| 18:59 | SirStan | Does KOHA have a way to scan in 50 barcodes and mark them all "in" ? |
| 18:59 | if no -> its a technical problem. | |
| 18:59 | atz | yes, offline circ. |
| 18:59 | Sharon | During summer reading, people are taking and leaving dozens of books all at once, there are long lines and overworked staff. Anything that can make checking in items easier, would be a welcome enhancement to any ILS |
| 18:59 | if offline circ worked... | |
| 19:00 | SirStan | heh |
| 19:00 | Sharon | I got lunch, I'm ready to argue, I mean discuss, some more |
| 19:07 | Snow_Fox | im having problems finding the image requirements for patron photos anyone know where i can find this? |
| 19:16 | wizzyrea | joetho: winnebago didn't make the distinction between regular checkins and mass checkins |
| 19:16 | all checkins were mass checkins, technically | |
| 19:17 | BUT they didn't have to deal with transfers, either | |
| 19:17 | chris | morning |
| 19:17 | wizzyrea | mornin chris |
| 19:20 | atz | Snow_Fox: check under the patron image upload tool (or its help)? |
| 19:37 | danny | hey chris |
| 19:39 | chris | heya danny |
| 19:42 | rhcl | hey chris, gimme a sec |
| 19:43 | Snow_Fox | atz: i think i found the details i need, curious about what the file size should prob be set too, i would imagine smaller better due to load times and storage |
| 19:44 | rhcl | chris: are you close to New Plymouth? http://kete.net.nz/blog/topics[…]ase-kete-features |
| 19:45 | chris | nope |
| 19:45 | but i live 3 blocks away from walter :) | |
| 19:45 | and actually helped interview him when he applied for a job at katipo | |
| 19:45 | rhcl | well, catch a ride with him. :) |
| 19:45 | chris | nz is a small place :) |
| 19:46 | gmcharlt | ... if not necessarily as compact as it could be ;) |
| 19:46 | chris | :) |
| 19:49 | mason also used to be a sysadmin/system support dude at the libraries up near new plymouth (and worked with me and walter at katipo too) | |
| 19:50 | my wife (who is from pittsburgh originally) likes to say there is only 2 degrees of separation in nz, not 6 | |
| 19:50 | rhcl | I guess I have the <possibly very foreign> idea that the fishing must be great in NZ. |
| 19:50 | chris | it is pretty good |
| 19:50 | wizzyrea | hm... so does that mean you know someone who knows peter jackson? |
| 19:50 | chris | yes |
| 19:50 | wizzyrea | well there you go |
| 19:51 | chris | 2 people at my work worked at weta |
| 19:51 | rhcl: rich people fly here to do trout fishing | |
| 19:51 | and there is some good deep sea fishing too | |
| 19:51 | rhcl | so do poor people fly there to do carp fishing? |
| 19:52 | :) | |
| 19:52 | chris | hehe they row or swim |
| 19:52 | rhcl | Ah, the slow boat... |
| 19:52 | chris | i dont think we have carp, except as pests |
| 19:53 | some idiots release some koi carp | |
| 19:53 | wizzyrea | ops |
| 19:53 | oops | |
| 19:53 | rhcl | well, we have a lot here, and they are pests--compete with native species |
| 19:53 | chris | yeah, they are trying to eradicate them here, for the same reason |
| 20:06 | mmm kahu is trying to stick a drumstick in my ear | |
| 20:06 | have a drum kit in the lounge wasnt the best idea | |
| 20:09 | wizzyrea | kids++ |
| 20:21 | pianohacker | We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while... |
| 20:23 | wizzyrea | @quote add pianohacker ponders drumstick->ear as a method of food acquisition...We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while... |
| 20:23 | munin | wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #9 added. |
| 20:24 | pianohacker | quoteback! |
| 20:24 | wizzyrea | @quote random |
| 20:24 | munin | wizzyrea: Quote #8: "< wizzyrea> in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated" (added by pianohacker at 05:57 PM, June 19, 2009) |
| 20:24 | wizzyrea | oh snap |
| 20:25 | chris | back |
| 20:26 | wiggles dvd, toast and an apple .. sorted for approx 7 minutes | |
| 20:27 | SirStan | @quote add <gmcharlt> you know, you got a bad deal if you sold your soul for a TODO list ;) |
| 20:27 | munin | SirStan: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 20:34 | chris | @quote random |
| 20:34 | munin | chris: Quote #6: "gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)" (added by wizzyrea at 04:13 PM, June 16, 2009) |
| 20:34 | chris | heh |
| 20:34 | wizzyrea | I think that a lot, actually |
| 20:39 | danny | @google fight monday friday |
| 20:39 | munin | danny: friday: 116000000, monday: 103000000 |
| 20:39 | danny | friday++ |
| 20:40 | chris | hmm 11 hours till we get our revenge on the french rugby team |
| 20:40 | @wunder wellington, new zealand | |
| 20:40 | munin | chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (8:25 AM NZST on June 20, 2009). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029 hPa (Steady). |
| 20:41 | chris | man for once im glad i didnt get tickets |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | ew, cold |
| 20:41 | chris | its gonna be freezing at the stadium |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | it's as nasty cold there as it is nasty hot here |
| 20:41 | @wunder Lawrence, KS | |
| 20:41 | munin | wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 30.4°C (3:41 PM CDT on June 19, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.64 in 1003.6 hPa (Steady). |
| 20:41 | chris | its a wet cold today, i hate cold + wind + rain |
| 20:41 | each of them by themselves is fine .. combine them, and it sux | |
| 20:42 | that is pretty hot | |
| 20:42 | wizzyrea | yesterday was hotter |
| 20:42 | 32-34 | |
| 20:43 | chris | 22-28 is nice |
| 20:43 | once it starts getting over that | |
| 20:43 | i dont enjoy it much | |
| 20:47 | rhcl: would you like me to get walter to give me a demo of 1.3 and i write up a summary for ya? | |
| 21:30 | ok, im gonna take kahu to gmnastics, which consists of daddy laughing hysterically as kahu dives into the big foam pit ... then me climbing in to get him out | |
| 21:30 | back later | |
| 22:27 | pianohacker | @seen Jo |
| 22:27 | munin | pianohacker: Jo was last seen in #koha 18 hours, 6 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Jo> well we are trying .. |
| 06:57 | brendan | @wunder santa barbara, ca |
| 06:57 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 16.6°C (11:56 PM PDT on June 19, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Rising). |
| 06:57 | brendan | well that is warmer than |
| 06:57 | @wunder wellington, NZ | |
| 06:57 | munin | brendan: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (6:00 PM NZST on June 20, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.45 in 1031 hPa (Steady). |
| 06:58 | brendan | :) |
| 07:00 | si | it's relatively unpleasant here in Wellington NZ |
| 07:00 | must be a big rugby came on tonight | |
| 07:00 | game, even | |
| 07:00 | brendan | hey si -- been awhile since we've chatted |
| 07:00 | si | hey inded |
| 07:00 | how did the kohacon go? | |
| 07:00 | brendan | I think chris was saying that he was glad he didn't get tickets this time |
| 07:01 | due to the weather there | |
| 07:01 | Kohacon -- was an excellent time | |
| 07:02 | si | I'm glad to hear it |
| 11:18 | chris | hmm |
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