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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 14:21 | johnny | haha, true |
| 14:47 | danny | in trying to understand koha better, I am curious as to the reasoning behind having the templates include the html coding + language, instead of just having all of the wording become variables and then including like a language file? |
| 14:48 | it seems like with the way it is currently setup if I make a html coding change to an en template, that same change would need to be made to a fr template, is that true? | |
| 14:48 | owen | danny: you're not the first to ask the question |
| 14:48 | hdl | danny: yes |
| 14:49 | But there is a process that does it automatically | |
| 14:49 | danny | oh really? that is good |
| 14:50 | paul | misc/translator/tmpl_process3.pl |
| 14:51 | owen | paul, is there anything on the wiki describing the process? |
| 14:52 | There is a howtotranslatekoha page, but it's not really what it sounds like: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]owtotranslatekoha | |
| 14:52 | danny | paul: ah I see, ok thank you |
| 14:53 | owen | danny, we do it this way with Koha to make it easier for the developers to work on the templates. Devs get real language strings in the template when editing rather than variable names they'd have to look up elsewhere |
| 14:53 | At least that's the rationale I recall | |
| 14:54 | danny | hehe |
| 14:54 | that is true | |
| 14:57 | and if I have questions on some usability/template design questions, is it best to ask here or the koha-devel list? | |
| 14:58 | owen | Either place. Try here first and mail the list if you don't get a good answer or want to get more of a consensus. |
| 14:59 | danny | mostly concerning why certain things are setup they way they are and if they can be changed or not |
| 14:59 | ok sounds good | |
| 14:59 | owen | I'm eager to hear any questions you've got |
| 15:00 | danny | ok they are all about really little specific things |
| 15:00 | like when modifying a Child Patron from the staff side, there is a drop down list for Relationship under Guarantor information | |
| 15:01 | there can be many more options under relationship then father/mother | |
| 15:01 | paul | yes, that's why it's defined in a syspref ;-) |
| 15:01 | danny | ah |
| 15:02 | owen | borrowerRelationship |
| 15:02 | danny | ok I see it, thanks |
| 15:15 | nengard | danny, this may be of help to you: http://sites.google.com/a/libl[…].com/koha-manual/ |
| 15:15 | danny | ok i'll take a look at it, thanks |
| 15:16 | gmcharlt | hi liz-nekls |
| 15:18 | nengard | hiya liz-nekls |
| 15:47 | liz-nekls | hola chica did you have a good weekend? |
| 15:53 | nengard | can someone tell me if this is right? |
| 15:53 | AutomaticItemReturn | |
| 15:53 | Defines if Koha will automatically transfer an item to to its home branch, or not. | |
| 15:53 | Default Value: ON | |
| 15:53 | Values: | |
| 15:53 | * ON = Items checked in at a location other than the home branch specified in their record will be set as in transit to their home location. | |
| 15:53 | o IMPORTANT: This assumes you know what needs to be transferred, and initiates the transfer automatically without showing a notification message. | |
| 15:54 | * OFF = Items will not be set as in transit to their home location, instead the item will remain at the library that checked the item. The check in location will show on the item record as the 'holding' location (like a temp location) | |
| 15:54 | liz-nekls - i did have a nice weekend, we went to hershey, PA and now i'm going through my training notes to update documentation :) | |
| 15:54 | liz-nekls | nengard-nice |
| 15:55 | nengard did you get chocolate? | |
| 15:55 | nengard | liz-nekls i went to an SLA meeting and scientists from hershey were there and they gave us free samples ;) yum |
| 15:55 | liz-nekls | mmm awesome |
| 16:04 | nengard | can someone fill in the ?? on this page for me - just tell me what to put and I'll put it in: http://sites.google.com/a/libl[…]Authorized-Values |
| 16:06 | hdl | (For HINGS_* |
| 16:06 | )= | |
| 16:07 | nengard | hdl - yeah those are the ones that i can't even guess about |
| 16:09 | owen | The wiki at least gives a better description of those codes: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]bliographic_items |
| 16:12 | nengard | owen thanks - i added that info to my document |
| 16:25 | mc | hello all |
| 16:25 | i read the Zeno's message | |
| 16:26 | as there is no object i seen on the koha API, i'm trying to figure out how a UML diagram can help ? | |
| 16:26 | any idea ? | |
| 16:26 | ( E/R diagram can be really usefull, btw ) | |
| 16:27 | acmoore | mc: I can see it being useful, too, but probably really difficult to do on the current Koha code. |
| 16:30 | mc | hmm ... sorry for my poor english: i'm trying to tell that i think is quiet useless as there is no diagram to draw |
| 16:30 | (i think about class diagram : action diagram is just impossible to render automatically) | |
| 16:32 | (or perhaps it's just an UML view of the schema ... so why not just E/R? ) | |
| 16:33 | acmoore | mc: Yes, I think I follow you. we don't really have any objects, so you can't really make a model for it. |
| 16:34 | mc: But, perhaps something useful will come out of it. It doesn't really cost the rest of us much to see how they do, so I can't object. | |
| 16:36 | mc | that's why i shut up for now |
| 16:36 | paul | write a mail to tell your questions & doubts. |
| 16:36 | mc | but peraps there is better to do ... |
| 16:36 | paul, ok | |
| 16:36 | paul | at least, they will realize it will not be that easy to get something really usefull |
| 16:36 | mc | i just wanted to know if i was just wrong :) |
| 16:37 | yep | |
| 16:37 | you're right | |
| 17:00 | someone knows how to translate "API metier" ? | |
| 17:00 | that means: API that provides a business abstraction | |
| 17:07 | hdl | professional API |
| 17:07 | cnighs | any ddc experts, semi-experts, or just plain non-experts w/some kind of ddc experience around? |
| 17:11 | nengard | cnighs they use ddc at nekls- liz-nekls do you know anything that can help? |
| 17:43 | sawariwap | anyone awake? |
| 17:45 | atz | yep |
| 17:45 | danny | somewhat awake =) |
| 17:46 | qiqo | hi atz and danny |
| 17:47 | ive just upgraded to rc1 | |
| 17:47 | from 2.2 here | |
| 17:47 | and im having trouble running the zebraserver | |
| 17:47 | well the server is running | |
| 17:47 | but when i perform search, nothing is reflected | |
| 17:47 | mc | hdl, thx (i just noticed your reply) |
| 17:47 | kados | qiqo: 2.2 doesn't use zebra |
| 17:47 | qiqo | i have 300 bilio records |
| 17:47 | kados | qiqo: you need 3.0 |
| 17:47 | qiqo | yeah... so i upgraded to 3.0 |
| 17:47 | im using RC1 now | |
| 17:49 | also i guess zebra is running | |
| 17:49 | root 6128 0.0 0.7 39336 7912 pts/0 T 01:33 0:00 zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml | |
| 17:51 | hmm | |
| 17:52 | can anyone help me throug ssh? | |
| 17:52 | i think i got the indexing wrong | |
| 17:59 | ryan | qiqo: you ran misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra -b ? |
| 18:04 | qiqo | yup |
| 18:04 | ran it | |
| 18:04 | 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6331) [log] zebra_stop: 0.03 0.00 0.00 | |
| 18:05 | ==================== | |
| 18:05 | CLEANING | |
| 18:05 | liz-nekls | nengard - sorry I was afk |
| 18:05 | what was the question? | |
| 18:05 | qiqo | ==================== |
| 18:05 | those are the last lines after the execution | |
| 18:05 | but im having these errors: 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6329) [warn] Record didn't contain match fields in (bib1,Local-number) | |
| 18:05 | nengard | np |
| 18:08 | qiqo | hmm |
| 07:23 | johnny | good morning |
| 07:36 | mc | hello |
| 07:36 | i just read the chris post on packaging koha on hardy | |
| 07:36 | chris++ | |
| 07:37 | chris: just one point: you didn't explain how to add the GPG key for your repo | |
| 09:04 | chris | ahh sorry |
| 09:04 | you can get it from biglumber | |
| 09:04 | ill update the post | |
| 09:04 | paul | hi chris |
| 09:05 | chris | hi paul |
| 09:06 | paul | chris: say hello to johnny the new biblibrios |
| 09:06 | (since yesterday) | |
| 09:08 | chris | hi johnny :) |
| 09:09 | does he work in the marseille office with you paul? | |
| 09:09 | paul | yep |
| 09:09 | we are 3 : me, osaury & johnny | |
| 09:14 | chris | excellent |
| 09:20 | mc: updated the post | |
| 09:21 | paul | chris: do your company use a perl framework for devs ? like catalyst. mc would be interested to know I'm sure |
| 09:21 | chris | we use all sorts of different things |
| 09:21 | paul | because he asked us some questions about using a framework for Koha. I have no experience. Do you have some ? |
| 09:22 | chris | generally they are good for prototyping |
| 09:22 | paul | he spoke of moose for example |
| 09:22 | (which is not really a framework, I agree) | |
| 09:22 | chris | but often the ease of programming, is offset by the performance hit |
| 09:23 | the main thing i dont like about catalyst for example, is it uses Class::DBI | |
| 09:24 | paul | mc: beeepp !!!! |
| 09:24 | chris | so instead we use the things we like about it, like the MVC model, and template toolkit |
| 09:24 | but prefer to be able to tweak the sql, for performance reasons | |
| 09:25 | for things like the SRS (running the .nz registry) and stuff.co.nz etc .. performance is very important | |
| 09:25 | mc | oops |
| 09:25 | sorry | |
| 09:26 | chris | so often we will prototype with a framework, or for small apps, or sites use it |
| 09:26 | but for big production sites, we prefer to get our hands a bit more dirty :-) | |
| 09:26 | mc | i read |
| 09:26 | 50% | |
| 09:27 | chris | :) |
| 09:27 | mc | 80% |
| 09:27 | 100% | |
| 09:27 | ok | |
| 09:27 | on of the thing i love in catalyst is that there is no need to use anything | |
| 09:28 | for example: Class::DBI can speed the dev, but you can feel free to rewrite your own M from scratch | |
| 09:29 | chris | yep, thats we end up doing |
| 09:29 | mc | about performances: i just wanted to notice that the fact to don't use a framework introduce bugs (as this i have fixed) that are very bad for performances |
| 09:30 | a good separation of the M can drive us to a design of a generic DBI::Class M | |
| 09:30 | pro: | |
| 09:31 | - techno independant | |
| 09:31 | - easy to read and understand (new conributors will appreciate) | |
| 09:31 | and if sql tweaks possible: | |
| 09:32 | chris | it depends on the framework |
| 09:32 | mc | a special Model::MYSQL::InSteroid |
| 09:32 | chris | if we just talk about catalyst then i mostly agree |
| 09:32 | but there are some frameworks that are no where near as nice | |
| 09:32 | like maypole, or tangram | |
| 09:33 | so it has to be a *good* framework, not just any framework | |
| 09:33 | mc | i talk about catalyst. I love concepts of Jifty but there is too much use of mason |
| 09:33 | chris | mason has some very good things |
| 09:33 | it depends on the structure of your website | |
| 09:33 | johnny | hey chris |
| 09:33 | mc | and i don't like masson 'cuz it embeded perl code |
| 09:33 | chris | if you can make use of the strong inheritance that mason has |
| 09:34 | mc | so mason is just a kind of php++ for me |
| 09:34 | i don't like to see perl code in a template | |
| 09:34 | chris | you dont have to use it like that |
| 09:35 | if you build your components right | |
| 09:35 | mc | sure ... but you can ... so be sure someone will :) |
| 09:35 | chris | you can totally separate the two |
| 09:35 | yeah, but you can do anything in perl .. it doesnt make perl bad :) | |
| 09:35 | mc | touched! i shut up :) |
| 09:36 | chris | if i was writing koha now |
| 09:36 | from scratch, i would use either catalyst | |
| 09:37 | or maybe rails | |
| 09:37 | but in 99, neither existed :) | |
| 09:37 | johnny | eh, what about django? ☺ |
| 09:37 | mc | sure: i don't beat on koha team! koha is just a good piece of software in regard of is history |
| 09:38 | chris | or maybe django |
| 09:38 | mc | johnny, get out of there! |
| 09:38 | ;) | |
| 09:38 | chris | or erlang |
| 09:38 | :) | |
| 09:38 | mc | :( |
| 09:38 | johnny | ahhaha |
| 09:38 | mc | i hope you're kidding |
| 09:39 | chris | you dont like the idea of a distributed, concurrent koha? ;-) |
| 09:39 | mc | johnny, if we have to change for any other language (i'm not sure it's a good idea), we have to choose a good one |
| 09:39 | chris | yeah i am, if i did it erlang .. we'd have no developers :) |
| 09:39 | mc | chris, well ... i don't like the idea there is no more new contrib |
| 09:39 | sure | |
| 09:39 | chris | ive been playing with pugs, and perl6 |
| 09:40 | mc | me too |
| 09:40 | that's one more point for moose: | |
| 09:40 | chris | actually my friend andy wrote a good post about this |
| 09:40 | ill find it | |
| 09:40 | mc | the basics are close |
| 09:41 | chris | http://kapiti.geek.nz/random/w[…]e-about-perl.html |
| 09:43 | mc | chris, what about haskell ? |
| 09:43 | ;) | |
| 09:45 | chris | heh |
| 09:45 | i did haskell at university | |
| 09:45 | wrote a compiler in it | |
| 09:45 | we could go really lowlevel, and do machine code | |
| 09:45 | write even | |
| 09:47 | johnny | mc: well, he was mentioning rails... |
| 09:47 | mc | johnny, rails is in ruby |
| 09:47 | johnny | but yeah, i couldn't agree more |
| 09:47 | yeah, it is | |
| 09:49 | mc | i read a book on it and i'm very attracted by the level of abstraction |
| 09:49 | i love the concept but have no time to practice :( | |
| 09:49 | 'I mean, show them a thousand line Java file or a 10 line Perl program.' | |
| 09:49 | chris | heh |
| 09:50 | mc | that's not right when you correctly use some java frameworks with very powerfull concepts as annotations |
| 09:50 | because those tools doesn't exists in perl | |
| 09:51 | but the problem is that you need some 10 years java developpers to do so | |
| 09:51 | chris | and it still wont get finished |
| 09:51 | mc | yep |
| 09:52 | sure | |
| 09:52 | another problem is that it's almost impossible to do simple things with simple ways with those java frameworks | |
| 09:55 | chris | yep |
| 10:00 | mc | why i dream about catalyst/TT2: |
| 10:01 | - better abstraction | |
| 10:01 | - use of existing wheels: less code | |
| 10:01 | (so less bugs) | |
| 10:02 | - Easier way to organize the code (even the templates, using vmethods, wrappers, ... ) | |
| 10:02 | s/abstraction/isolation/ | |
| 10:03 | abstraction needs design : i spoke about all of it because i'm very afraid for the Zeno's Student | |
| 10:04 | chris | its a good learning experience |
| 10:05 | mc | johnny, don't tell again you like things like python on this chan because logs are public: u'll ruin your carrieer ! |
| 10:05 | chris | but i would suggest the student works toward creating a uml of how it could work |
| 10:06 | mc | that's what i propose in my answer on the list |
| 10:06 | oops ... you restart apache2 in the postinst ? | |
| 10:06 | chris | yep |
| 10:07 | well, reload | |
| 10:07 | mc | ooh ... ok |
| 10:07 | i would be quiet furious if i was sysop and if a package install/update restarts my server | |
| 10:07 | chris | as well as linking the config into sites-enabled (before) |
| 10:08 | theres lots that do | |
| 10:08 | mc | chris, so you create a default site ? |
| 10:09 | chris | at the moment |
| 10:09 | mc | i thought about it when i wrote my automator |
| 10:09 | but now i think it's not a good idea | |
| 10:09 | chris | its just for testing the package |
| 10:09 | mc | because i don't handle multiple sites |
| 10:09 | ok | |
| 10:10 | chris | next step is writing the preinst file that uses debconf to get values from the user |
| 10:10 | mc | but i think we (vincent, MJ, ...) have to think about what we could expect from a koha package |
| 10:10 | ohh | |
| 10:11 | chris | but for now, you can install it and have a single site koha up and running pretty fast |
| 10:12 | if i do it right | |
| 10:12 | then you could do dpkg-reconfigure libkoha-perl | |
| 10:13 | and add another koha site | |
| 10:13 | but ill think about that more tomorrow | |
| 10:15 | hmm am i right, is there a biblibrio in toulon? | |
| 10:24 | paul | chris: no, there is none. Although Marseille is 50km from Toulon |
| 10:25 | chris | ahhh |
| 10:25 | Toulon has been in the news here lots lately, because of the rugby team, and the nzer leaving his rugby league club to go play there | |
| 10:26 | paul | right. Marseille is THE soccer city. And Toulon a Rugby city. |
| 10:27 | mc | toulon ? |
| 10:27 | chris, don't you think about Toulouse ? | |
| 10:29 | paul | mc: I don't think so : http://www.rugby-stream.fr/Rug[…]49_128_48961.html |
| 10:29 | chris | http://stuff.co.nz/4644128a1823.html |
| 10:29 | (the bonus of working on a newspaper site, i have to read the news hehe) | |
| 10:29 | paul | lol |
| 10:30 | mc | an all black in france! cool! |
| 10:30 | toulon will learn the aka ? | |
| 10:30 | chris | they already have the ex captain of the all blacks as their coach :) |
| 10:30 | tana umaga .. he is from wellington too | |
| 10:31 | mc | i remember that i was a child the first time my father told me to see the aka! i was really scarred about black shirts after that |
| 10:32 | (i was young rugbyman) | |
| 10:32 | good appetite all: i go for lunch | |
| 10:41 | paul | bye chris |
| 10:41 | sweet dreams | |
| 10:41 | chris | have a good afternoon and happy hacking :) |
| 11:40 | nengard | celebrate software freedom day: http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/archives/129 |
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