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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 17:21 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Thanks Galen! :) |
| 17:39 | thd | nengard: check your email for a message with the subject line "using open source" in answer to your question |
| 17:39 | nengard | thd was just wondering what the heck that was ;) I've actually read that before. Thanks for sending it |
| 17:59 | thd | I made some custom authorities frameworks for LibLime. I do not see them in git. What should I do about updating them for the latest MARC update, that is, where should they go? |
| 18:00 | gmcharlt | thd: installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc21/mandatory/authorities_normal_marc21.sql , I would think |
| 18:01 | per comments in header of that file, that is a version that you edited for LL | |
| 18:03 | ricardo | Time to go home. Take care erveryone! :) |
| 18:09 | thd | gmcharlt: that is the default with the full standard, the others were two progressively smaller subsets. Neither of them were exceptionally small so that they would not miss anything important. |
| 18:10 | ryan: are you here> | |
| 18:10 | gmcharlt | ok, then it's a question for ryan or kados: where did the subsets go? |
| 18:10 | kados | hmmm, subsets? |
| 18:12 | thd: there have been changes to both authority and bib frameworks since you last contributed | |
| 18:12 | thd: some patches to bugs in them ... | |
| 18:12 | thd | kados: I know: I am working from the git version and I made a diff |
| 18:13 | ryan should know about the subsets of the authorities framework. Is he around? | |
| 18:13 | kados | thd: one concern I have about the current implementation of frameworks is that there is no mechanism to update frameworks on live systems |
| 18:14 | ie, post-installation | |
| 18:14 | s/update/auto-update/ | |
| 18:14 | thd | kados: drop the table and repopulate ;) |
| 18:14 | s/table/tables/ | |
| 18:14 | kados | thd: doesn't work if they've made local changes |
| 18:15 | thd | kados: that requires a sophisticated solution |
| 18:15 | kados | yep |
| 18:15 | thd | kados: that could be solved with two or three days thinking |
| 18:16 | ... and investigating. yet, who has that much time at this point. | |
| 18:16 | ? | |
| 18:16 | gmcharlt | thd, kados: another thing for 3.2 or 3.4, perhaps - frameworks should distinguish between standard, "app profile" a la OCLC's version, local fields, and decisions about which fields to display in a particular format view |
| 18:17 | kados | *nod* |
| 18:18 | thd | gmcharlt: ultimately we need a more flexible model for the frameworks. Updating the variants with many changes is not very time efficient. |
| 18:18 | gmcharlt | thd: agreed |
| 18:18 | also, now that LC's MARC website is providing the MARC21 format defines in something half-way parseable, drawing from that could be automated | |
| 18:19 | kados | definitely |
| 18:19 | thd | gmcharlt: the problem is that only has the current LC standard which is vastly under-inclusive for the real world |
| 18:21 | there are records at some libraries which still have data in fields which were made obsolete when AACR2 was introduced in 1978 | |
| 18:22 | the current LC standard maybe OK for creating a new original record but not for interpreting existing records in the world | |
| 18:22 | gmcharlt | thd: ok, but automating the current version is a start, and it would actually be useful to have a mode that indicates that your records have obsolete fields |
| 18:24 | thd | gmcharlt: I have noted all obsolete fields and subfields which only appear if already populated with the notation [OBSOLETE] |
| 18:25 | gmcharlt | thd: that's good for display, but an enhancement framework structure might actually tie some functionality to those fields |
| 18:25 | e.g., "warning, warning, AACR1 in use" | |
| 18:25 | thd | gmcharlt: In addition to obsolete there are widespread non-LC conventions in use at OCLC, etc. |
| 18:27 | gmcharlt: yes, we need an enhancement with better functionality and where framework variants can be mere diffs | |
| 18:29 | soon we will have warning AACR2 in use :) | |
| 18:31 | gmcharlt | thd: hehe - shouldn't that be "RDA in use, despair all ye who enter here"? |
| 18:32 | thd | The RDA MARC working group proposed to reuse 011 which was made obsolete in 1992 and I think the MARBI committee roundly rejected them |
| 18:33 | gmcharlt | good - I was not happy that there were proposals to reuse tag numbers |
| 18:34 | atz | thd: sounds like OO/inheritance approach to frameworks |
| 18:34 | thd | Despair especially much if you cannot afford to subscribe and there is no one time purchase price for a hard copy version |
| 18:34 | atz | (variants as diffs_ |
| 18:35 | thd | atz: the problem is that even with clever use of regular expressions copying changes into every framework variation takes all day. |
| 18:36 | atz | yeah, it must |
| 18:36 | gmcharlt | thd: and loud complaining if we can't republish enough of the RDA spec to set up MARC frameworks (and presumably their RDF equivalents in the future) |
| 18:40 | thd | gmcharlt: I intend to suggest on the RDA-L list that the co-publishers should look into funding publication in a manner similar to the work of wc3.org . Compare the market success of library standards to web standards. |
| 18:40 | gmcharlt | thd: good idea. I would personally endorse that. |
| 18:41 | atz | rch: added /home/ican/ican_sip_users.sql |
| 18:42 | kados | atz: wrong channel ? :-) |
| 18:42 | thd | s/wc3/w3c/ |
| 18:42 | atz | kados: true... i've got code4lib up today and it's throwing off my sense of tab-geography |
| 18:43 | thd | gmcharlt: RDF implementations are not quite ready for MARC but we need to make them ready. |
| 18:44 | gmcharlt: Ed Summers LCSH.info is woefully inadequate because of the limitations of SKOS | |
| 18:46 | kados | hdl: you still around? |
| 18:47 | thd | gmcharlt: DCMI must have a commitment to solving those issues because they have committed to mapping RDA/MARC in RDF. |
| 18:47 | kados | paul: ? |
| 18:47 | thd | ryan ? |
| 18:48 | ryan | hi thd |
| 18:48 | thd | hello ryan |
| 18:49 | ryan: I have been updating frameworks to the latest MARC update and want to know what to do about the subsets of the authorities frameworks which I made for you | |
| 18:49 | ryan: I think they may never have been put in git because kados never chose a place for them | |
| 18:50 | ryan | thd: if they are up to date, would be great if you could commit them |
| 18:50 | thd: do you see any reason not to include them in 3.0 ? | |
| 18:50 | thd | ryan: maybe tonight but where would I put them? |
| 18:51 | kados | thd: these are optional marc21 authorities frameworks? |
| 18:51 | thd | kados: yes |
| 18:52 | kados | thd: if they compliment rather than supercede the existing marc21 authorities frameworks, they belong in: |
| 18:52 | installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc21/optional/ | |
| 18:52 | ryan | nstaller/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc21/optional |
| 18:52 | yeah, what he said | |
| 18:53 | kados | for 3.2 we may want to consider a mechanism for selecting one of many optional mandatory frameworks |
| 18:53 | if that makes sense | |
| 18:53 | thd | kados: has the issue of visibility using the hidden column been fixed for the authorities record editor |
| 18:53 | ? | |
| 18:53 | kados | thd: I'm not sure |
| 18:53 | thd: check bugzilla? | |
| 18:54 | thd | kados: was such a bug filed or do you mean file then check? |
| 18:55 | kados | thd: check for a bug(I think there was one) |
| 18:55 | if there wasn't, please file one if the problem still exists | |
| 18:55 | (feel free to check on koha.liblime.com | |
| 18:56 | thd | kados: in relation to bugs, are you going to announce a new release date or announce that a date will be fixed when the lingering important bugs have been fixed along with any newly reported important bugs? |
| 18:57 | kados | thd: good question |
| 18:57 | thd: we really need to get this release out | |
| 18:57 | thd: so we can start working on 3.2 | |
| 18:58 | thd | kados: yet, it seems much less polished than 2.2.X for all its advances. |
| 18:58 | kados | thd: are you serious? |
| 18:58 | thd: I completely disagree :-) | |
| 18:58 | thd: it's much more polished than a koha release has ever been, in so many ways | |
| 18:59 | thd | kados: yes I ma very serious about some user interface issues which I never saw on late versions of 2.2.X |
| 18:59 | ryan | thd: you are referring above to bug 2206 ? yes, it's been fixed. |
| 18:59 | kados | i agree we have a lot of improvements that could be made, but I really don't think you can compare it to a 2.2.x release |
| 18:59 | atz | thd: there are bugs, but the install process alone is so much better than 2.2 |
| 19:00 | kados | 2.2.9 has a lot more blocker bugs IMO than 3.0RC1 |
| 19:01 | thd | kados: I mean things like when I tab through the fields for the Biblios record editor I get stuck and tab stops working. |
| 19:02 | kados: Many issues relating to using the keyboard do not work as well therefore it takes much longer to do real work. | |
| 19:03 | ryan: 2206 was not the issue for controlling subfield visibility in the authorities record editor using the authorities frameworks. | |
| 19:04 | ccatalfo | thd: are you experiencing this tabbing issue in the Biblios editor in any particular circumstances? I'm aware that tabbing is not working from authority controlled fields. Is that what you've seen? |
| 19:05 | ryan | thd: you are referring to the standard MARC editor, right? not Biblios ? |
| 19:05 | thd | ccatalfo: I was hoping that it was masking some function for the authority controlled fields. |
| 19:06 | ccatalfo | thd: just to clarify, you do mean the Biblios editor, not the cataloging editor in Koha? |
| 19:06 | thd | ryan: I think there are user interface problems for doing real work in all of the record editors which did not exist in 2.2.X |
| 19:08 | ccatalfo: I do not get stuck on the authority controlled fields in the semantically labelled editor. I get stuck elsewhere in that editor but I expect less productivity from that editor in some ways. | |
| 19:09 | ccatalfo: so yes, I was addressing you about the Biblios record editor. | |
| 19:09 | ccatalfo | thd: ok, thanks. Are there other places tab isn't working, then? Or it the authority controlled fields? |
| 19:10 | thd | ccatalfo: I noticed the authority controlled fields but did not test extensively. |
| 19:10 | ccatalfo | thd: ok, good to know. |
| 19:11 | thd | ccatalfo: Is the authority controlled field block there as some anchor for a nifty authorised value filling feature which has not yet been implemented? |
| 19:13 | ccatalfo | thd: basically, yes. It's meant to query an sru authorities server for authorized values for that field. The querying part is implemented but we don't have it pointing at a valid server at the moment (on koha.liblime.com) |
| 19:14 | thd | ccatalfo: Yet I should be able to move quickly through the field even if I do not want to change a particular authorised value or if my connection is down, etc. |
| 19:15 | ccatalfo | thd: you're right - that tab not working is definitely a defect |
| 19:15 | thd: it ought to tab right through it even thought it is an ajax dropdown | |
| 19:18 | thd | ccatalfo: Also have you seen that the latest MARC 21 update provides an official place to put an authority record control number such as 650 ## $0 (DLC) sh1356358 $a some subject ? |
| 19:20 | ccatalfo | thd: no, I had not seen that. that's very good to know. So I can pull in that authority control number as well as the text, and not display the $0... |
| 19:20 | am i correct in remembering that koha is using a different subfield for linking, $9? | |
| 19:22 | thd | ccatalfo: Such nifty things were added for MAB2 format integration with MARC 21 for Germany and Austria |
| 19:23 | ccatalfo: You should still use $9 for Koha internally with the internal control number so the Koha code will use the authority correctly. | |
| 19:24 | ccatalfo: However, if you also use $0 we can update authorised values using the LCCN from the NACO and SACO database. | |
| 19:27 | ccatalfo | thd: thanks, this is all good information. FYI, at the moment, Biblios does not do any linking with koha $9. So it's not suitable for authority work within koha as things stand now. But, these are good things to keep in mind when we do implement better authority integration. |
| 19:27 | thd | ... provided we have real authority records which have an LCCN or other number from a standards body |
| 19:29 | ccatalfo | is the koha's $9 the control number from the authority record? so that $0 would be the same as $9? |
| 19:30 | gmcharlt | thd: re $0, has anybody come up with a decent proposal to handle subject headings that are linked to one main authority record and N subdivision records? |
| 19:32 | thd | ccatalfo: At French Koha libraries $9 taken from the Koha record ID and they build primitive authority records in most cases internally from existing values in authority controlled fields. |
| 19:33 | gmcharlt: $0 is repeatable but under review for how well that works. | |
| 19:34 | gmcharlt: The UNIMARC equivalent $3 I discovered a week ago was made repeatable to conform to practise at French libraries for that very issue. | |
| 19:35 | gmcharlt: I asked that very question citing divergent practise on the MARC list and while no one answered on list I received a private reply from the LC member of MARBI that the issue needs studying. | |
| 19:37 | gmcharlt: http://listserv.loc.gov/cgi-bi[…]L=marc&T=0&P=6868 | |
| 19:40 | gmcharlt: German practise which I did not quote fully uses adjacent repeated fields instead of attempting to accommodate a complex expression in one subdivided field. | |
| 19:42 | gmcharlt | thd: gotcha. thanks |
| 19:42 | ccatalfo | if only we just put the linking control number in there instead of the text...would be so much easier... |
| 19:44 | thd | ccatalfo: The DC-RDA group is working on doing just that using URIs but we still have to be backwards compatible until the revolution comes |
| 19:47 | ccatalfo: Also, the last MARBI meeting rejected all RDA working group proposals for using URIs for vocabulary such as relator terms specifying the role of an author as illustrator, editor, etc. | |
| 19:48 | ccatalfo | thd: interesting |
| 19:49 | thd | ccatalfo: The conservative MARC people want textual strings, which are necessarily language specific, and make for poor cross-national record sharing. However, the RDA working group proposal was technically deficient for accommodating both interests and deserved to fail. |
| 19:59 | kados | paul: do you know if hdl is available? |
| 19:59 | paul | hi kados. |
| 20:00 | kados | hi :-) |
| 20:00 | paul | nope. He's in holiday for 2 weeks |
| 20:00 | kados | paul: so I guess we won't see any serials patches then :-) |
| 20:00 | ok, that answers that question | |
| 20:00 | paul | right |
| 20:00 | kados | paul: have you seen the traffic on koha-devel about delaying 3.0 release? |
| 20:01 | paul: it seems some people don't want me to release it with blocker/critical/major bugs | |
| 20:02 | paul | yes, I've seen. |
| 20:02 | kados | thoughts? |
| 20:03 | paul | but my opinion is unchanged : we have delayed 3.0 really too too too much. and it start to be a real problem for us. + I strongly think we can continue debugguing for months or even years without releasing anything. |
| 20:04 | so, I'd said : let's go with 3.0, and continue with 3.0.1, even if it's 1 month after 3.0.0 | |
| 20:04 | + branch head for 3.2 | |
| 20:06 | hehe... hdl_laptop seems to be unable to be in holidays ;-) | |
| 20:07 | gmcharlt | that or the laptop is working, but hdl is still on vacation ;) |
| 20:07 | kados | hdl_laptop: are you really here? |
| 20:13 | davi | Trying to access the intranet.koha URL I get: |
| 20:13 | nothing on the browser | |
| 20:14 | and the below error in logs: | |
| 20:14 | DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.language_subtag_registry' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Languages.pm line 178. | |
| 20:14 | ||
| 20:15 | I can not execute the web install because when I access to intranet.koha , that is to say 8080 | |
| 20:16 | hdl_laptop | kados yes. |
| 20:16 | davi | I get such error with nothing on the browser. |
| 20:16 | hdl_laptop | but on holidays. |
| 20:16 | paul | hdl_laptop: i've written that already to kados ;-) |
| 20:16 | kados | hdl_laptop: paul has confirmed, but I just wanted to check with you -- you will not have serials patches ready for 3.0, right? |
| 20:17 | davi | Can I execute some script to do the web installation? |
| 20:17 | hdl_laptop | kados: I have sent some. |
| 20:18 | kados | davi: no, it has to be done via a web browser, but you could use lynx on the server if you only have command-line access to the server |
| 20:18 | davi: that's almost like running a script ;-) | |
| 20:18 | gmcharlt | hdl_laptop: are the subscription-add patches you sent me and ccatalfo potentially for 3.0, or do you think they'll need more work and should be for 3.2 |
| 20:18 | hdl_laptop: I haven't had a chance to look at them yet | |
| 20:18 | hdl_laptop | gmcharlt: honestly, |
| 20:19 | i would have LOVED to get them ready for 3.0 | |
| 20:19 | And would jquery and all the javascript stuff not be such a new thing for me, | |
| 20:19 | it would have been ready. | |
| 20:21 | But since it adds 2 tables, changes subscription table and add a new dependency (Roman) | |
| 20:21 | it may be safer. | |
| 20:21 | chris | morning |
| 20:22 | paul | hi chris. time to go to bed for frenchies... (10:30PM) |
| 20:22 | gmcharlt | hi chris |
| 20:22 | davi | kados, lynx does not work neither. I am checking with telnet localhost 8080 |
| 20:22 | # telnet localhost 8080 | |
| 20:22 | Trying 127.0.0.1... | |
| 20:22 | Connected to localhost. | |
| 20:22 | Escape character is '^]'. | |
| 20:22 | GET / | |
| 20:22 | Connection closed by foreign host. | |
| 20:22 | kados | davi: maybe an issue with your apache conf? |
| 20:22 | chris | goodnight paul |
| 20:22 | and hdl | |
| 20:23 | davi | Note: opac-main.pl get 90% CPU |
| 20:23 | kados, I am going to check the apache conf. Thanks | |
| 20:24 | hdl_laptop | kados : I sent some patches on Friday, which really fix some broken things. |
| 20:24 | thd | kados paul: If you would be OK releasing 3.0.1 in a month I would be understanding of your need to release 3.0 long ago and say that it is OK to release now or a week from now. |
| 20:25 | paul | (sorry, tired & late here) |
| 20:25 | thd | paul: I understand your need to release 3.0 now |
| 20:27 | paul: If you release 3.0 now and release 3.0.1 in a month, then I think releasing 3,0 now or within a week is good. | |
| 20:28 | paul: If 3.0.1 would take three months to issue on some schedule, then I think that you should wait for some more bug fixes before releasing 3.0. | |
| 20:30 | paul kados: When I made the start of an argument like that earlier, slef and owen did not think that standards should be lowered to satisfy business needs. | |
| 20:30 | paul | thd: that's exactly the kind of things that will make koha 3.0 NEVER be released... after standard, we will find something else to improve, then something else, then ... |
| 20:31 | many project died from "search for perfection" | |
| 20:31 | kados | paul: examples? |
| 20:31 | chris | i think we need to get back to the release early release often mantra |
| 20:31 | paul | I don't speak as a business man here. |
| 20:31 | chris: ++ | |
| 20:31 | chris | heck apache 2.0 is at .63 |
| 20:31 | and 2.2 is at .9 already | |
| 20:31 | thd | paul: I agree with you |
| 20:31 | paul | look at kde 4 ! |
| 20:31 | gmcharlt | if we do a bugfix 3.0.1 in a month's time, that might be managable, but it will give us at least one complicated DB schema change to work through, if we consider the serials bugs that hdl is working on to be blockers that should be fixed for 3.0.1 |
| 20:31 | paul | it has been released stable, and it was really unuseable ! |
| 20:32 | kados | chris: did apache release a product with blocker bugs? |
| 20:32 | chris | yes |
| 20:32 | thd | paul: my only worry is that once 3.0 is released 3.0.1 would not come out for months |
| 20:32 | kados | blockers? really? like 'virtual hosts don't work', something that major? |
| 20:32 | davi | kados, Accessing to the koha:8080 via lynx I have got: |
| 20:32 | production mode - trapped fatal error | |
| 20:32 | chris | yep, they have dev branches and they release from them |
| 20:33 | kados | chris: ahh, well we've done releases too by that metric |
| 20:33 | chris | well only in the last few months |
| 20:33 | thd | paul: I think that you should issue many minor releases quickly until the serious bugs have been fixed. |
| 20:33 | chris | there was years in between |
| 20:33 | kados | chris: but I seriously doubt they would have released stable versions of apache with blocker bugs |
| 20:33 | paul | kados: except 2297, all other blo are "long time" blo bugs, that are a problem only in some circumstances. |
| 20:33 | davi | kados, mainpage.pl and install.pl was executed before I got such error at lynx |
| 20:33 | paul | for example ':' character blocks search |
| 20:33 | or circulation reports too big | |
| 20:34 | gmcharlt | paul: well, as some larger and/or more sophisticated libraries adopt Koha, those bugs become more critical |
| 20:34 | paul | some other one just need a warning in release notes to be workarounded, for example : 2178 |
| 20:34 | thd | normalise the search query and you solve that bug quickly for some practical purpose even if you have not traced it |
| 20:35 | davi | kados, You were right about my Apache configuration was broken. |
| 20:35 | kados, I get "production mode - trapped fatal error" after fixing the Apache configuration. Now it is better but do not work yet. | |
| 20:35 | kados | davi: what's the rest of the error? |
| 20:35 | davi: anything in the apache logs? | |
| 20:35 | paul | gmcharlt: I agree. It don't mean those bugs must be ignored. Just that they should not prevent us from releasing. |
| 20:36 | thd | paul kados: so release and keep the pace of fixing the serious bugs and bugs which scare librarians |
| 20:37 | paul | OF COURSE ! |
| 20:37 | when I was 2.2RM, I used to release a subversion once every quarter. | |
| 20:37 | that was my goal, and I succeded to do it ! | |
| 20:37 | thd | paul kados: In the real world no one trust an X.0 release of anything anyways. |
| 20:37 | kados | thd: *nod* |
| 20:37 | paul | thd++ |
| 20:38 | kados | paul++ for releasing on schedule |
| 20:38 | gmcharlt | thd: that's no excuse, though |
| 20:38 | thd | paul: I think that 1 quarter is too long to wait for 3.0.1 though. |
| 20:38 | paul | to continue feedback with my experience : the DB stabilisation is the 1st thing to do to get a stable software |
| 20:38 | thd: I agree. | |
| 20:39 | gmcharlt | for 3.2, I'm happy releasing checkpoints releases more often |
| 20:39 | paul | thd: once a quarter is OK once it's really stable |
| 20:39 | so, the rule is : | |
| 20:39 | gmcharlt | but there's a question: how long do we want to keep up 3.0.x? |
| 20:39 | thd | exactly I think paul just said it perfectly |
| 20:39 | kados | because I think it will be too much overhead for this community |
| 20:40 | paul | I agree to have BibLibre take that role. |
| 20:40 | thd | kados: you want to go directly to 3.2 from 3.0 with only 3.1 between them? |
| 20:40 | gmcharlt | paul: which role? 3.0 maintainer? |
| 20:40 | paul | yep |
| 20:41 | kados | I sincerely hope that as we move forward as a community we not hide our heads in the sand about major issues like this |
| 20:42 | chris | are you suggesting we are now? |
| 20:42 | kados | chris: yep :-) |
| 20:42 | paul | yes, but is you want to move forward as a community, you should not ignore other's position ? (sorry to be rude) |
| 20:42 | kados | I think there's a lot of pressure to release software that's not ready |
| 20:42 | chris | ah well, your entitled to your opinion |
| 20:42 | thd | The caveats should be noted prominently without scaring people just so they do not get the wrong idea and assume the claim is that all works perfectly and never look again when they find that it does not. |
| 20:42 | kados | as can be seen on the list traffic |
| 20:42 | chris: not just my opinion anymore :-) others on-list have expressed similar sentiments | |
| 20:43 | atz | if the warnings were there in the interface that might matter |
| 20:43 | otherwise everybody will expect it to work | |
| 20:43 | kados | thd: true, that may be what we have to do for 3.0 |
| 20:43 | atz: *nod* | |
| 20:43 | atz | regardless of what INSTALL says |
| 20:43 | paul | mmm... kados, i've seen only 2 ppl expressing their opinion. I could list 10 french libraries that want 3.0 now... |
| 20:43 | + when releasing you can express the limits of the release & the caveats. | |
| 20:43 | davi | kados, (1) I execute lynx http://localhost:8080 (2) mainpage.pl and install.pl get CPU (3) lynx shows "production mode - trapped fatal error" |
| 20:43 | kados | paul: and I could list 100 US libraries that want 3.0 to be stable ;-) |
| 20:43 | thd | My concern is only too keep the good reputation of Koha. |
| 20:43 | kados | thd: *nod* ... mine too |
| 20:44 | davi: no errors in the apache logs? | |
| 20:44 | davi | kados, No error at /var/log/apache2/error.log or at koha-dev/var/log/koha-opac-error_log !!! |
| 20:44 | paul | So, release, & specify what is know to be unstable or working poorly. |
| 20:44 | that's better than not releasing imo | |
| 20:44 | atz | right now I'm servicing client tickets for 3 reports in 3.0 that just break |
| 20:44 | thd | wait too long to release and you also loose reputation |
| 20:44 | paul | thd++ |
| 20:45 | kados | davi: check the other koha log |
| 20:45 | atz | davi: your errors should be in the locations specified by your koha .conf file as ErrorLog |
| 20:46 | davi | koha-error_log |
| 20:46 | kados | davi: that's the one |
| 20:47 | davi | install.pl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.language_subtag_registry' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Languages.pm line 178. |
| 20:47 | install.pl: Can't locate object method "generate_id" via package "CGI::Session::ID::" (perhaps you forgot to load "CGI::Session::ID::"?) at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/CGI/Session.pm line 74. | |
| 20:47 | kados | ahha, there's the culprit I bet |
| 20:48 | davi | source code bug or installation bug? |
| 20:48 | Maybe I missed the installation of some Perl package? | |
| 20:49 | Let me try to install it | |
| 20:49 | atz | looks like unpopulated code trying to make the serializer a variable? |
| 20:49 | paul | davi : there's a problem with CGI::Session package, that has been splitted recently by the package maintainer. |
| 20:50 | you must also install another one, I don't remember which one, sorry (11PM in France... i'm tired) | |
| 20:50 | atz | CGI::Session::yaml perhaps ? |
| 20:50 | paul | that one being a problem that could delay the release... |
| 20:50 | davi | thanks paul, and good night |
| 20:51 | paul | mc has more infos about that |
| 20:51 | atz | yeah, that one is not directly our fault, but a serious problem anyway |
| 20:51 | paul | yep |
| 20:51 | that at least need some warnings in Release Notes ! | |
| 20:51 | thd | Anyways, I will have the MARC 21 frameworks up to date by tomorrow and I assume gmcharlt is fixing the unreported general data loss bug which had concerned me. |
| 20:52 | paul | really time to go to bed for me. |
| 20:52 | I'll be back tomorrow afternoon (FR afternoon) | |
| 20:52 | thd | good night paul |
| 20:54 | davi | Will work if I download and overwrite installing an specific version of the CGI::Session package? |
| 20:55 | atz | davi: it might |
| 20:55 | davi | I will ask mc tomorrow for the CGI::Session package version to install. |
| 20:55 | atz | like the slightly older version |
| 20:56 | davi | Shit! I have already installed it from http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/au[…]ssion-4.30.tar.gz |
| 20:56 | as the Ubuntu guide advices | |
| 20:56 | http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=ubuntu_gutsy | |
| 21:02 | I have installed CGI::Session 4.30 | |
| 21:02 | It is correct as documented at the Ubuntu installation guide. | |
| 21:03 | ||
| 21:03 | The first error line I get at koha-error_log is: | |
| 21:03 | mainpage.pl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.auth_types' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Koha.pm line 340 | |
| 21:03 | So maybe the source of the error is at another location | |
| 21:04 | gmcharlt | davi: now that you have CGI::Session 4.30, there are a couple additional modules you can install from CPAN that shoudl complete things |
| 21:05 | davi: one being CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml | |
| 21:05 | davi | let me do it, thanks |
| 21:06 | kados | gmcharlt: the cgi-session issues alone probably need to be documented explicifly |
| 21:06 | gmcharlt: shoudl we add notes to the installation docs? | |
| 21:06 | gmcharlt | kados: agreed |
| 21:06 | yes | |
| 21:07 | kados | gmcharlt: so installation of CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml with version 4.30 fixes the issues, should we just require that now? |
| 21:08 | gmcharlt | yes, that would be a minimum |
| 21:08 | there may be something more - lemme double-check quickly | |
| 21:13 | ricardo | Hi all |
| 21:17 | kados | davi: did it work for ya? |
| 21:17 | ricardo: hiya | |
| 21:17 | ricardo | kados: Hi Joshua! :) |
| 21:17 | davi | kados, I Qemu virtual machine is very slow :-) |
| 21:18 | My* | |
| 21:18 | I report to all you with the result, after installing CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml | |
| 21:18 | I will* | |
| 21:20 | ricardo | davi: That solved my CGI::Session problems for me (installing CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml is what I recommend in my Installation Tutorial of Koha 3 in openSUSE 11.0 at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=opensuse_11.0 |
| 21:21 | kados: BTW - I'm reviewing that tutorial (and doing some minor changes) with a fresh installation of openSUSE 11.0 final (I'll use the latest Koha development version for it). | |
| 21:21 | kados | ricardo++ |
| 21:21 | ricardo | :) |
| 21:23 | I'm guessing that I won't have the problem with the missing dependency for Algorithm::CheckDigits this time since MJ Ray promptly corrected that (so that section will probably be deleted from the wiki / INSTALL.opensuse file)... | |
| 21:23 | davi | I take note of your guide ricardo! Maybe I will move from Ubuntu to OpenSUSE |
| 21:24 | ricardo | davi: LOL! Well, I was not expecting my Guide to have an impact *that* big, eheh... But thanks, I will take that as a compliment :) |
| 21:24 | davi | I am tiny :) |
| 21:26 | ricardo | davi: eheh |
| 21:27 | On the other hand, I seem to recall hdl talking about some CGI::something::mysql perl module that would be useful. I'll search the IRC logs for that now | |
| 21:30 | davi | ricardo, You guide is a lot longer than the Ubuntu one at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=ubuntu_gutsy |
| 21:30 | Your* | |
| 21:31 | ricardo | davi: True... I'm usually pretty detailed in my documentation (you might call it "boring" ;-) |
| 21:31 | gmcharlt | ricardo: "complete" is a friendlier word ;) |
| 21:31 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Eheh... Thanks! :) |
| 21:33 | (I had one internal documentation that included ALL the output of CPAN Module installations, file extractions and such for Koha AND had some screenshots... that went over a thousand pages, believe it or not...) | |
| 21:33 | davi | ricardo, It is lot of work but it is better when well detailed |
| 21:34 | ricardo | davi: Well, at least I appreciate detailed info that/when it is relevant :) |
| 21:35 | davi | I get some failed tests when installing such package |
| 21:35 | t/g4_dbfile_json................ok 64/101 (in cleanup) Dumping circular structures is not supported with JSON::Syck at /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/blib/lib/CGI/Session/Serialize/json.pm line 18. | |
| 21:35 | ... | |
| 21:36 | t/g4_dbfile_json................dubious | |
| 21:36 | Test returned status 255 (wstat 65280, 0xff00) | |
| 21:36 | DIED. FAILED tests 84, 90, 92-101 | |
| 21:36 | ... | |
| 21:36 | ricardo | right |
| 21:36 | davi | Can be go on? |
| 21:36 | Can I go on? | |
| 21:37 | ricardo | davi: Try to install CGI::Session::ID::MD5 first (I think... let me check) |
| 21:37 | davi | ok, thanks |
| 21:38 | ricardo | Yep. At least, it has that name -> CGI::Session::ID::MD5 |
| 21:40 | davi: Try to install that (from CPAN)... | |
| 21:41 | davi | I have installed all the packages from CPAN |
| 21:41 | ricardo | BTW: In my tutorial I have these lines (that seem to have no bad consequences, but...): |
| 21:41 | davi | perl -MCPAN -e 'install Package::...' |
| 21:41 | ricardo | davi: Oh OK :) |
| 21:41 | gmcharlt / kados (other): in my tutorial I have these lines (that seem to have no bad consequences, but...): | |
| 21:41 | davi | you must correct me, please |
| 21:43 | ricardo | " t/Items.....................ok 2/28Use of uninitialized value $db_driver in concatenation (.) or string at /root/Koha/blib/PERL_MODULE_DIR/C4/Context.pm line 628.Can't connect to data source 'dbname=__DB_NAME__;host=__DB_HOST__;port=__DB_PORT__' because I can't work out what driver to use " |
| 21:43 | gmcharlt / kados: Is this really harmless.... or NOT? | |
| 21:43 | gmcharlt | ricardo: it will, in fact, be going away due to a patch from acmoore |
| 21:44 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Ah great! Thanks for the feedback! :) |
| 21:44 | gmcharlt: Do you know if that patch has already been submitted & approved? | |
| 21:44 | davi: OK. Did you install CGI::Session::ID::MD5 already? | |
| 21:45 | gmcharlt | ricardo: the patch moving the items test was just approved |
| 21:46 | davi | ricardo, My Qemu virtual machine is slow |
| 21:46 | ricardo | gmcharlt: Very nice... Thanks for the info. So I'll grab again that latest snapshot development version. That will also improve (and "ease up" a bit) my tutorial. |
| 21:46 | davi: Hmmm.... Qemu runs under Linux or Windows? | |
| 21:46 | davi | GNU/Linux |
| 21:46 | Debian stable 'etch' | |
| 21:47 | ricardo | davi: OK... I use VirtualBox in Windows (for running openSUSE 11.0) and it is reasonably light-weight (much lighter than VMware, at least). In Linux, I use Xen. I never tried Qemu, though |
| 21:48 | davi | ricardo, CGI::Session::ID::MD5 installed rightly. I am going now with CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml again. |
| 21:48 | ricardo | OK. Good luck! :) |
| 21:49 | davi | ricardo, I will go with Xen when time allow me. |
| 21:49 | Your positive comment re-force my intention to try Xen. | |
| 21:51 | ricardo | davi: Well... Xen is included with SLES (SUSE Linux Enterprise Server), so that's what I ended up using :) |
| 21:51 | But yes, I like Xen | |
| 21:52 | davi | I have and old AMD Athlon, so I think I have some problems to boot |
| 21:52 | the Xen hipervisor | |
| 21:53 | with PAE or without PAE support. | |
| 21:53 | ricardo | davi: Maybe... I don't have any info regarding that (I run it on a typical Intel Pentium 4 - *playing mandatory Intel advertising sound* ;-) |
| 21:54 | davi | |
| 21:54 | Same error again: | |
| 21:54 | t/g4_dbfile_json................ok 64/101 (in cleanup) Dumping circular structures is not supported with JSON::Syck at /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/blib/lib/CGI/Session/Serialize/json.pm line 18. | |
| 21:54 | ... | |
| 21:54 | t/g4_mysql......................skipped | |
| 21:54 | all skipped: Couldn't establish connection with the MySQL server: Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at t/g4_mysql.t line 44 | |
| 21:54 | ||
| 21:55 | The CGI::Session::ID::MD5 installation did not solve the CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml installation problem. | |
| 21:55 | ricardo | davi: One user reported that he managed to solved that JSON problem by downloading CGI::Session and installing it directly (instead of using CPAN): |
| 21:55 | http://lists.katipo.co.nz/publ[…]8-May/013842.html | |
| 21:55 | See if that solves the problem for you | |
| 21:57 | davi | I have already installed an specific version of CGI::Session |
| 21:57 | I think the above error is different than the one exposed at such link. | |
| 21:58 | Maybe I should set the CGISESS_MYSQL_DSN environment variables before starting the installation of CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml ? | |
| 21:58 | It reads: | |
| 21:58 | ricardo | davi: Hmmm.... It is related - http://lists.katipo.co.nz/publ[…]8-May/013815.html - but yes, it may be different |
| 21:58 | davi | The simplest method is to use the standard "DBI_DSN/DBI_USER/DBI_PASS" |
| 21:58 | environment variables. | |
| 21:58 | Otherwise, you can set these variables: | |
| 21:59 | ricardo | davi: CGISESS_MYSQL_DSN? First time I hear about that one |
| 21:59 | davi | OK, so not needed. thanks. |
| 21:59 | So do you think CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml is actually needed? | |
| 22:00 | gmcharlt | yes, the YAML serializer is required |
| 22:00 | davi | thanks |
| 22:00 | ricardo | davi: Try to install the YAML Perl module... Maybe Ubuntu has a package for that? |
| 22:02 | acmoore | announcing this again FYI: There's a news bot in #kohanews on freenode. It announces things like updates to git and bugzilla. I find it more convenient than using a RSS reader for those things. some developers may be intereseted in idling there. feel free to. |
| 22:03 | kados | acmoore: probably would make sense to announce this on koha-devel too |
| 22:03 | davi | That is the output of the installation: http://rafb.net/p/jnik8F61.html |
| 22:05 | ricardo | davi: Reading... Yep, sounds familiar, all right. I think that when I got this, I ended up doing a "force install CGI::Session". No, I don't like it either but it seemed to solve it :-/ |
| 22:05 | This is why I now install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml "instead" of "CGI::Session" | |
| 22:07 | davi | Such paste is the output of CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml not CGI::Session |
| 22:07 | so, you advise force it? | |
| 22:07 | "force install CGI::Session" | |
| 22:07 | ? | |
| 22:07 | ||
| 22:07 | I have located this Ubuntu package: libyaml-perl - YAML Ain't Markup Language (tm) | |
| 22:08 | What do you think is better: install the Ubuntu package or "force install CGI::Session" ? | |
| 22:08 | ricardo | davi: I would try the libyaml-perl path first |
| 22:08 | davi | thanks |
| 22:13 | ||
| 22:13 | not solved | |
| 22:13 | I get again: | |
| 22:13 | ricardo | davi: Darn! :( |
| 22:13 | davi | install.pl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.language_subtag_registry' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Languages.pm line 178 |
| 22:13 | install.pl: Can't locate CGI/Session/Serialize/yaml.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /build/kohaclone /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.8 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at (eval 15) line 3. | |
| 22:13 | ricardo | davi: Hmmm... But you don't get anymore the JSON error? |
| 22:13 | davi: Try now to install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml | |
| 22:14 | davi | I just installed the Ubuntu package |
| 22:14 | I have not tryed it install it form CPAN again | |
| 22:14 | ricardo | davi: I'm guessing the libyaml-perl is for the YAML::Syck package, but I may be wrong. Let me see |
| 22:14 | davi | I do not know if besides the libyaml-perl ubuntu package it is needed some other one |
| 22:15 | I have: | |
| 22:15 | libyaml-perl - YAML Ain't Markup Language (tm) | |
| 22:15 | libyaml-syck-perl - Fast, lightweight YAML loader and dumper | |
| 22:15 | libyaml-tiny-perl - Read/Write YAML files with as little code as possible | |
| 22:15 | no more YAML perl packages. | |
| 22:15 | ||
| 22:16 | ricardo | davi: I would install also the libyaml-syck-perl package |
| 22:16 | davi | So, was it right and enough the installation of the libyaml-perl one? |
| 22:16 | ok, thanks | |
| 22:17 | ricardo | davi: Just checked http://packages.debian.org/sou[…]/sid/libyaml-perl - it seems to install the YAML Perl Package (and not CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml). So I guess that after installing libyaml-perl and libyaml-syck-perl, it's perfectly OK to install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml |
| 22:18 | davi | Let me try to install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml now |
| 22:18 | ricardo | OK. Good luck |
| 22:19 | davi | perl -MCPAN -e 'install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml' |
| 22:20 | ricardo | davi: Yep, that's the correct line. You do realize that you also have to paste it in the Linux shell, don't you? ;-) |
| 22:21 | davi | Oops! thanks. I forgot it ;-) |
| 22:21 | ricardo | Eheh |
| 22:21 | davi | :) |
| 22:25 | ||
| 22:25 | Same problem with JSON | |
| 22:25 | t/g4_dbfile_json................ok 60/101 (in cleanup) Dumping circular structures is not supported with JSON::Syck at /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/blib/lib/CGI/Session/Serialize/json.pm line 18. | |
| 22:25 | ||
| 22:27 | Why is it referencing CGI-Session-4.20 ? I have an older version of CGI-Session. | |
| 22:27 | ricardo | davi: Really? Interesting. What's your version? |
| 22:27 | davi | |
| 22:27 | MySQL fails too. So the same than before installing such packages: | |
| 22:27 | t/g4_mysql......................skipped | |
| 22:27 | all skipped: Couldn't establish connection with the MySQL server: Can't connect to data source '' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:' prefix and the DBI_DRIVER env var is not set) at t/g4_mysql.t line 44 | |
| 22:28 | ||
| 22:28 | CGI::Session::VERSION 3.95 | |
| 22:29 | as adviced at the Ubuntu guide: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=ubuntu_gutsy | |
| 22:29 | ||
| 22:29 | I fear I am messing the Ubuntu installation with some of the instruction only right for OpenSuse | |
| 22:30 | ||
| 22:30 | ricardo | davi: Hmmm... Makefile.PL lists the required (minimum) version as being 4.10: |
| 22:30 | davi | ricardo, Do you have a VirtualBox image with Koha 3.0 which I could download? |
| 22:30 | ricardo | http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]lob;f=Makefile.PL |
| 22:31 | davi: I'm afraid not | |
| 22:31 | davi | |
| 22:31 | Oops! you are right! | |
| 22:31 | Let me install it again | |
| 22:31 | wget http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/au[…]ssion-4.30.tar.gz | |
| 22:31 | ... | |
| 22:32 | ricardo | davi: I'm always right... except when I'm wrong! ;-) |
| 22:33 | davi | I use to be wrong except when I am right |
| 22:34 | ricardo | LOL |
| 22:34 | davi | :) |
| 22:35 | When I grow I want to be a nerd, due to nerds are the more happy people in the world | |
| 22:35 | ricardo | davi: You really should NOT believe the marketing brochure so much... ;-) |
| 22:35 | davi | :) |
| 22:44 | Now I have the version of 4.30 CGI::Session | |
| 22:44 | I had forgot execute: # make install | |
| 22:45 | ||
| 22:45 | But I get yet: | |
| 22:45 | mainpage.pl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.auth_types' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Koha.pm line 340. | |
| 22:45 | ... | |
| 22:45 | install.pl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'koha.language_subtag_registry' doesn't exist at /build/kohaclone/C4/Languages.pm line 178. | |
| 22:45 | ... | |
| 22:45 | install.pl: Can't locate object method "generate_id" via package "CGI::Session::ID::" (perhaps you forgot to load "CGI::Session::ID::"?) at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/CGI/Session.pm line 74. | |
| 22:46 | gmcharlt | davi: once you have the 4.30 CGI::Session, try installing the YAML serializer again |
| 22:46 | davi | perl -MCPAN -e 'install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml' |
| 22:46 | thanks | |
| 22:51 | ||
| 22:51 | Shit! same error again: | |
| 22:51 | t/g4_dbfile_json................ok 70/101 (in cleanup) Dumping circular structures is not supported with JSON::Syck at /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/blib/lib/CGI/Session/Serialize/json.pm line 18. | |
| 22:51 | # Failed test 'Previously stored object loaded successfully' | |
| 22:52 | gmcharlt | it's pulling from CGI-Session-4.20 - try clearing your CPAN cache under /root/.cpan/build |
| 22:53 | davi | What command to clean it? |
| 22:53 | rm -rf | |
| 22:53 | ? | |
| 22:55 | rm -rf CGI-Session-3.95 | |
| 22:55 | rm -rf CGI-Session-4.20 | |
| 22:55 | done | |
| 22:55 | ||
| 22:55 | perl -MCPAN -e 'install CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml' # again | |
| 22:56 | ricardo | davi: Crossing fingers here, for what it's worth... :) |
| 22:56 | davi | :D |
| 23:01 | ||
| 23:01 | Failed again: | |
| 23:01 | t/g4_dbfile_json................ok 57/101 (in cleanup) Dumping circular structures is not supported with JSON::Syck at /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/blib/lib/CGI/Session/Serialize/json.pm line 18. | |
| 23:01 | ricardo | You've got to admire JSON::Syck for its persistence! ;-) |
| 23:02 | gmcharlt | davi: try install manually |
| 23:02 | 1. download and unpack http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/au[…]ize-yaml-4.21.tgz | |
| 23:02 | davi | The directory /root/.cpan/build/CGI-Session-4.20/ which I removed has been regenerated. |
| 23:03 | gmcharlt | 2. follow INSTALL |
| 23:03 | ricardo | davi: Yep... That's weird (why would it show 4.20 instead of 4.30? puzzled...). Oh well. Follow gmcharlt's advice |
| 23:03 | davi | OK, I am going to follow gmcharlt advice |
| 23:11 | ||
| 23:11 | lynx localhost:8080 works now! thanks | |
| 23:11 | gmcharlt | yay! |
| 23:11 | ricardo | GREAT!!! :D |
| 23:11 | davi | :) |
| 23:12 | ricardo | I must admit I think I'll never understand WHY that works. Oh well.. |
| 23:15 | davi | I would like to learn why it was failing, but not now :) |
| 23:16 | ricardo | Eheh... I understand |
| 23:16 | davi | I am just a robot, a nerd |
| 23:16 | :) | |
| 23:18 | ricardo | davi: Well, I like to believe that nerds / geeks are curious by nature. |
| 23:19 | davi | It could be a way to follow |
| 23:20 | ricardo | Yep |
| 23:29 | davi | Now, I want to understand the Koha source code. Is there any architecture document or similar? |
| 23:29 | Or else an 'analysis' or 'design' document? | |
| 23:30 | ricardo | davi: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" ;-) |
| 23:31 | davi | :) I see |
| 23:31 | ricardo | Seriously though, there's a Koha Architecture Guide for v2 |
| 23:31 | davi | That can be an start. Any URI? |
| 23:32 | ricardo | Koha Architectural Study |
| 23:32 | http://www.kohadocs.org/Koha_architecture.html | |
| 23:33 | davi | thanks |
| 23:34 | ricardo | davi: You're welcome :) |
| 23:35 | davi | let see what we get out from this... |
| 23:37 | ricardo | davi: Sure |
| 23:38 | davi | night |
| 23:38 | ricardo | davi: Good night! |
| 01:27 | kados: are you still here? | |
| 01:33 | kados: In the case you read this - I just updated my Installation Instructions for Koha 3 in openSUSE 11.0 in the Koha Developer Wiki - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=opensuse_11.0 | |
| 01:34 | However, it's already 2H30 AM (!) here in Portugal, and I will only be able to updated those instructions for the INSTALL.opensuse file tomorrow night (night here in Portugal, probably afternoon there in the US) | |
| 01:34 | Take care! :) | |
| 01:35 | ( s/updated/update gee...) | |
| 01:35 | Bye |
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