arwen:~/koha/production/koha$ ls -l /tmp/fines ← Previous day | Today | Search | Index
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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:45 | nengard | lists question |
| 13:45 | When managing lists on the staff side, there are three list options - what is the free list/open list? Where does it show up? I thought public lists showed whether you were logged in or not. | |
| 13:49 | nevermind - it's a bug | |
| 13:49 | owen | A bug?! |
| 13:50 | nengard | hehe |
| 13:50 | according to atz it's a bug he knows about :) | |
| 13:50 | how about this one? | |
| 13:50 | What's the difference between ReservesMaxPickUpDelay and holdCancelLength? They both look like number of days an item can sit on the hold shelf | |
| 13:51 | atz | nengard: i think the pickup delay is the time from when the book is "in hand" waiting for the holder |
| 13:51 | and the cancel length is the overall duration | |
| 13:51 | which may be for a hold that *never* gets filled, | |
| 13:51 | for ecample | |
| 13:51 | *example | |
| 13:51 | nengard | hmmm - okay |
| 13:52 | atz | but that's just based on discussion, not looking at the codebase |
| 13:53 | nengard | it's a start |
| 13:55 | i'm going to ask a whole bunch of questions to see if i can narrow down my long long list :) | |
| 13:55 | What is the 'Reports Dictionary'? | |
| 13:56 | owen | nengard: You can set definitions for particular groups of attributes in Guided Reports |
| 13:57 | So, I can define "Adult Women" as femail borrowers whose birthdates are after XXXX-XX-XX | |
| 13:57 | It's a way to add shorthand to reports for easy re-use | |
| 13:58 | Does that make any sense? | |
| 14:00 | (...aside from my bad spelling) | |
| 14:10 | nengard | um ... re-reading :) |
| 14:11 | it makes sense - but i'm not sure how to do it - off to my test site to poke and see if i can explain it a bit better ;) | |
| 14:12 | owen - here's a good question - where the heck did i see that in the first place? can't find a link to it ;) hehe | |
| 14:12 | owen | Guided Reports > View Dictionary |
| 14:12 | nengard | ahh |
| 14:12 | thanks | |
| 14:14 | okay - so i created a definition for women ... what do i do with that - will it be an option when creating a guided report? | |
| 14:15 | yep | |
| 14:15 | there it is | |
| 14:15 | neat | |
| 14:15 | okay | |
| 14:15 | owen | But now I'm confused...I thought could set up more than one parameter for the definition, but it's only showing me the dateofbirth option... |
| 14:15 | Maybe that's incomplete | |
| 14:16 | No, there it is. I must have missed it before | |
| 14:16 | Oh, it's just doing it the other way around now. Still only one option. | |
| 14:17 | nengard | hmmm |
| 14:17 | i only tried it with one option | |
| 14:17 | so is there a bug to report here? | |
| 14:17 | owen | Well, I think it's just an example of an incomplete feature |
| 14:17 | A dictionary definition is really most useful if you can define multiple parameters (IMO) | |
| 14:17 | nengard | i agree |
| 14:19 | you want me to submit a minor bug or enhancement request for this? | |
| 14:20 | owen | I'm not sure it's necessary. Guided Reports were begun with a full and detailed spec, funded in the beginning by my library |
| 14:20 | We ran out of money for it, so the completion is unfunded | |
| 14:21 | I think this is a case where the manual needs to describe the behavior as-is, and keep our fingers crossed for the spec to be fully-realized | |
| 14:23 | nengard | you got it |
| 14:23 | let's see - next question ... | |
| 14:24 | # Can people without permissions to catalog see items and cataloging data? - a read only type permission ... | |
| 14:25 | owen | In the MARC view |
| 14:25 | Is that not sufficient? | |
| 14:26 | nengard | i think so - my question is if they click on cataloging or on a record from the staff search will they see what the cataloger sees? the ability to click on the items tab and the normal tab? |
| 14:27 | they being - people who do not have cataloging rights - like the ref staff | |
| 14:28 | owen | If you don't have cataloging permission, you shouldn't see any cataloging link. If you search for a book and pull up its record, you won't see the 'edit' buttons, but you'll get all the 'view' optiosn |
| 14:28 | nengard | what about the items? |
| 14:28 | maybe i should create a user and play with them - that would make sense - wouldn't it ;) hehe | |
| 14:29 | owen | Yeah, if you're trying to understand permissions that's the best way |
| 14:29 | nengard | okay |
| 14:29 | acmoore | owen, is that partially completed spec for the dictionary stuff recorded somewhere, like bugzilla or wiki or something? Even if it's never done as was envisioned, sometimes it's helpful to understand what was in the minds of the original designers |
| 14:29 | nengard | next |
| 14:30 | owen | Non-cataloger users can see item information via the MARC view and via the 'Items' tab on the left of the normal view |
| 14:30 | acmoore: I don't think so, but Liblime drew up the spec, so you should be able to track it down. | |
| 14:30 | acmoore | OK. thanks. next |
| 14:31 | nengard | next |
| 14:32 | sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on basket.pl go away? | |
| 14:33 | owen | I'd want to check with hdl or paul on that one |
| 14:33 | nengard | okay - next :) btw - owen you're awesome :) |
| 14:34 | finesMode - will it send an email (if set to 'test') for every fine accrued? what does the report look like | |
| 14:34 | owen | No idea. (How's that for awesome!) |
| 14:35 | nengard | hehe ;) no prob |
| 14:35 | i'll find another - i have plenty | |
| 14:35 | owen | finesMode is actually a new one to me...I should be checking that in the template on some screens |
| 14:36 | Like, hide the 'charges' column when finesMode is set to off. | |
| 14:36 | At least that's how I understand it | |
| 14:36 | nengard | okay - this one may be a known bug, I just want to check on it |
| 14:36 | After creating a public list it didn't show up under the lists | |
| 14:38 | owen | Hmm... Creating a list in the staff client? |
| 14:38 | nengard | i should have written that in my notes - i think it was the opac |
| 14:38 | let me try again | |
| 14:39 | okay - opac - here are my steps | |
| 14:40 | 1 - search | |
| 14:40 | 2 - click save to lists on a result | |
| 14:40 | 3 - create new list | |
| 14:40 | 4 click save | |
| 14:40 | 5 - click lists button next to cart | |
| 14:40 | 6 - my new public list isn't there | |
| 14:41 | but it does show up here: koha/opac-shelves.pl?display=publicshelves | |
| 14:41 | owen | Yeah, that's kind of a bug. The page with the lists button doesn't refresh, so it doesn't have the new list data to display |
| 14:42 | ..since the list was added in a pop-up window. | |
| 14:42 | nengard | yeah ... that makes sense |
| 14:43 | should I report this? or is it not fixable? | |
| 14:44 | owen | I think it's fixable. I don't know how involved it would be, but it's worth a bug report. |
| 14:44 | nengard | okey dokey |
| 14:44 | next: # Item public note doesn't actually display for items. Is this set to not display? | |
| 14:44 | owen | I notice you can choose to create a public list if you go through the 'manage lists' page |
| 14:44 | Sorry--you /can't/ choose to create a public list | |
| 14:45 | Public note doesn't display where? In the OPAC? The staff client? | |
| 14:45 | Both, probably. I'll bet it only displays in the MARC view | |
| 14:47 | nengard | owen - wait - confused - when creating lists I do have public as an option .... |
| 14:47 | public note doesn't appear in either | |
| 14:48 | owen | nengard: you have public as an option on this page? /cgi-bin/koha/opac-shelves.pl?shelves=1 |
| 14:48 | ...or in the pop-up window from search results? | |
| 14:49 | nengard | pop up window from search results - this page i've never seen before :) |
| 14:49 | owen | Hunh? |
| 14:49 | nengard | hehe |
| 14:50 | sorry | |
| 14:50 | how do you get tot his page? | |
| 14:50 | ohhhh - its the link on the manage lists page | |
| 14:50 | owen | Yes |
| 14:50 | nengard | k - i never created a list that way |
| 14:51 | i always did it from the detail page or search results | |
| 14:51 | owen | Yeah, it's not the most practical way |
| 14:51 | nengard | while we're on this topic - shouldn't there by a My Lists tab on the profile?? |
| 14:51 | owen | Yes. |
| 14:53 | I see public note in the MARC view both in the staff client and the OPAC, but I don't see it anywhere else | |
| 14:53 | nengard | right |
| 14:53 | owen | I don't know if there is a standard usage for that, but "public" certainly implies it should appear in the OPAC. |
| 14:54 | nengard | hehe - that's what I thought |
| 14:54 | and there isn't a standard use for it that I know of - not on item records | |
| 14:54 | owen | And wasn't someone asking about an item "private" note? |
| 14:54 | nengard | so - that's one enh request for the my lists tab and one bug report for this public note thing? |
| 14:54 | owen - yes | |
| 14:54 | we had a customer asking about that | |
| 14:57 | owen | So what would you put in a public note? The thing that comes to mind is information about damage to an item |
| 14:57 | nengard | yep - that's all i can think of too |
| 14:57 | but i've never working in a public library - who knows - maybe you'd want a note about an included CD? | |
| 14:58 | owen | That information should be in the description already |
| 14:58 | nengard | when demoing librarians seemed happy about that option |
| 14:58 | yeah it should | |
| 14:58 | maybe one has a missing CD ... which falls under damage | |
| 14:58 | who knows | |
| 14:58 | hehe | |
| 14:59 | owen | brb, phone |
| 15:11 | nengard | welcome back |
| 15:11 | updating my notes and bugs | |
| 15:14 | owen - did we go over this one? it sounds familiar: On aqbudget.pl the search at the top shouldn't be for the catalog but for funds | |
| 15:15 | paul do you know the answer to this one? sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on basket.pl go away? | |
| 15:15 | paul | iirc, it's the taxes rate. |
| 15:15 | 5.5% in France for example. | |
| 15:15 | (0.055) | |
| 15:16 | atz | it should display, as zero, imho |
| 15:17 | nengard | atz - but if you don't have gist then why have it there at all? |
| 15:17 | atz | so you know you don't have any. |
| 15:17 | nengard | hehe |
| 15:17 | atz | it will vary by vendor, btw. |
| 15:17 | nengard | not if the library is a non-profit |
| 15:17 | there is no tax | |
| 15:18 | like the library who asked the question | |
| 15:18 | atz | foreign purchases |
| 15:18 | ? | |
| 15:18 | nengard | they don't make any |
| 15:18 | it's a US public library | |
| 15:18 | not an academic library - who are more likely to make foreign purchases | |
| 15:18 | ryan | in dev_week, gst is hidden if set to zero |
| 15:19 | nengard | it jsut seems that if you disable it it shouldn't show up |
| 15:19 | ryan - what does that mean? | |
| 15:19 | it should be hidden? | |
| 15:19 | or it was at some time? | |
| 15:19 | ryan | both :) |
| 15:20 | nengard | so it's a bug that it's showing up again ?? |
| 15:20 | atz | no |
| 15:20 | nengard | k |
| 15:20 | atz | dev_week is a branch version of koha |
| 15:20 | nengard | oh |
| 15:20 | ryan | perhaps we need an extra syspref |
| 15:20 | but nobody here in the us wants that line to show up afaict | |
| 15:21 | nengard | okay - so enhancement request? |
| 15:21 | ryan | yeah, i guess so. |
| 15:21 | nengard | k |
| 15:22 | just trying to go through all my notes and clear up some unfinished items - and unanswered questions | |
| 15:22 | ryan | i see atz's point that it should show zero if you _might_ have gst but don't |
| 15:22 | nengard | i understand too |
| 15:25 | thanks owen | |
| 15:27 | here's a toughy - I think | |
| 15:27 | borrowerRelationship what if the parent doesn't have a card and you're entering a child type patron - do you have to pick one of these? can it be left blank? should we put null values in this preference? | |
| 15:29 | owen | It's not required to enter guarantor information, if that's what you're asking? |
| 15:30 | atz | i don't see the problem of making the parent get a card first. |
| 15:30 | owen | atz: it's a library policy question |
| 15:30 | You'll get a lot of different opinions on that one | |
| 15:31 | atz | otherwise, just make the kid an independent account, right |
| 15:31 | nengard | owen - that was what i was asking - thanks for the answer |
| 15:31 | atz | ? |
| 15:31 | nengard | atz - i'm not sure - i'm just repeating a question from a public library ... and one that i wanted to clarify in my manual |
| 15:31 | owen | atz, when you add a juvenile patron it offers you the 'Guarantor' fields |
| 15:31 | atz | right |
| 15:32 | owen | nengard: Maybe if borrowerRelationship is empty the Guarantor fields should be omitted? |
| 15:32 | nengard | owen - probably - cause wouldn't it cause a graphical error if the pull down was empty? |
| 15:33 | owen | It's just strange to have an empty select |
| 15:33 | nengard | yep |
| 15:34 | owen | Uh oh, looks like uploading patron images is broken? |
| 15:34 | atz | crap, again? |
| 15:34 | nengard | owen atz - bugger!!! when did that break?? |
| 15:35 | atz | no idea. |
| 15:36 | owen | I can't even click the 'upload patron images' link from tools-home.pl. I'm prompted to download the perl file |
| 15:36 | atz | sounds bad |
| 15:36 | owen | Hm, but maybe my system? |
| 15:36 | Can't locate Image/Magick.pm in @INC | |
| 15:37 | atz | ah, yeah, I think that dependency slipped in |
| 15:37 | recently a patch got sent to account for it, not pushed up yet | |
| 15:38 | cpan Image::Magick; # should fix it | |
| 15:40 | owen | atz, this is on arwen. Aren't others testing on that machine? |
| 15:40 | atz | yes, let me check config |
| 15:42 | owen | nengard: a benefit of working from home, I presume? |
| 15:42 | nengard | owen - yeppers ;) |
| 15:43 | sys pref SubscriptionHistory what is the diff between the options? | |
| 15:43 | atz | owen: cpan fails... looking at aptitude |
| 15:46 | owen: ok, try again | |
| 15:47 | owen | No luck |
| 15:48 | atz | same behavior? ok, i guess I'll try the cpan now that the binaries are in |
| 15:48 | same failure. hrm. | |
| 15:49 | ryan | libimage-magick-perl ? |
| 15:50 | atz | attempting |
| 15:52 | (points to perlmagick) | |
| 15:53 | ok, that worked fine. | |
| 15:54 | FYI: | |
| 15:54 | Unpacking perlmagick (from .../perlmagick_7%3a6.2.4.5.dfsg1-0.14_i386.deb) ... | |
| 15:54 | Setting up perlmagick (6.2.4.5.dfsg1-0.14) ... | |
| 15:54 | the cpan version that failed XS make was 6.40 | |
| 16:01 | owen | Good news: not broken :) |
| 16:01 | atz, I hope all your other secret wishes come true too ;) | |
| 16:05 | nengard | hehe |
| 17:07 | does anyone have a screenshot of a patron's record with overdue fines on the account? if so - can i see it? I need to see what it looks like so i can fake it on my demo site :) | |
| 17:38 | owen | nengard: You may have to set your loan period to one day, turn fines on, and see what happens |
| 17:38 | nengard | owen - can't - josh has the cron turned off on my system for fines :) |
| 17:38 | owen | Oh, I see |
| 17:39 | Sheesh, doesn't anyone use fines? | |
| 17:39 | nengard | you can if you want :) hehe |
| 17:46 | owen i got a comment today that the series on the opac should be linked - i agree - why is the pubilsher linked, but not the series? | |
| 17:46 | owen | I don't see why it shouldn't be |
| 17:47 | (this is another case where kados will shout: XSL!) | |
| 17:48 | Hm...looks like it's linked here: http://oleonard.dev.kohalibrar[…]?biblionumber=254 | |
| 17:50 | nengard | huh - mine is to: http://opac-nce.dev.kohalibrar[…]?biblionumber=259 |
| 17:50 | must be the version they have | |
| 17:50 | owen | Could be a question of regular vs. XSL |
| 17:51 | nengard | here's the question as they worded it - I think i'm confused |
| 17:51 | Series fields are missing in records. For example, search 'sunrise' by karen kingsbury. It mentions the series in the title, but there is no link that will just bring up items in that series. Also search daughters of Lancaster county. 'Storekeepers daughter' comes up, and it is in the "D or L. C." series, but I cannot see any indication of it in the regular record. It would also be nice to have the number in the series. | |
| 17:52 | owen | Could they be talking about the search results screen? |
| 17:55 | nengard | hmmmm |
| 17:55 | maybe | |
| 17:56 | let me ask them to clarify | |
| 18:02 | email sent | |
| 18:02 | detail page question - I don't have a sample of this - what happens if a book has more than one ISBN (020) or if the 020 has text in it - like 'pbk' etc? | |
| 18:05 | owen | There does seem to be a problem with that display |
| 18:16 | Can anyone tell me how to run fines2.pl manually? | |
| 18:17 | nengard: It seems like ISBN is truncated by opac-detail if there is 'extra' text: http://oleonard.dev.kohalibrar[…]?biblionumber=254 | |
| 18:18 | nengard | owen - bug?? cause I think it is - but what does everyone else think? also if there are 2 020 fields they should both show |
| 18:19 | and which 020 wins the battle? the first or the one that's numerically first? | |
| 18:19 | owen | Yeah, it's a bug. It looks like it's because opac-detail pulls the isbn from the biblioitems table, and the isbn column in that table is limited to...what is it now? 13? |
| 18:24 | nengard | 13 |
| 18:26 | owen | I'm not sure there's any reason for there to be a small limit on that field, other than saving some resources |
| 18:27 | Obviously no one planned for there to be anything other than one clean isbn number in there | |
| 18:27 | Which isn't surprising: a programmer is going to think, ISBN's a number with a fixed length, right? So we need a column with a fixed length | |
| 18:27 | Then you get catalogers tossing who knows what in there | |
| 18:28 | atz | owen: most displays now use a "clean" isbn, since the amazon, syndetics, google content relies on it |
| 18:28 | owen | But we're talking about showing the ISBN as it is in the MARC record |
| 18:29 | ...which is different. There might be additional text, or there might be more than one attached to one record | |
| 18:29 | atz | yeah, some ppl mentioned that already |
| 18:29 | owen | "014-0-503-96X (pbk.-)" |
| 18:29 | atz | right |
| 18:30 | owen | Another argument for the XSL version of opac-detail |
| 18:31 | atz | i'm still amazed at a system that sets up a field for an IDENTIFIER and then allows users to add free text to it. |
| 18:31 | wtg MARC21. | |
| 18:31 | owen | :D |
| 18:32 | nengard | hehe |
| 18:33 | owen | atz, I'll bet you know how to run fines2.pl from the command line. Can you help me with that? |
| 18:34 | atz | let me check |
| 18:37 | looks rather undocumented (internally) | |
| 18:38 | doesn't appear to take any arguments | |
| 18:39 | owen | Can you give me the idiots guide? :) |
| 18:39 | atz | KOHA_CONF=/abs/path/to/my/koha-conf.xml |
| 18:40 | export KOHA_CONF | |
| 18:41 | PERL5LIB=/path/to/under_C4 | |
| 18:41 | export PERL5LIB | |
| 18:41 | perl /path/to/fines2.pl | |
| 18:42 | owen | /path/to/under_C4 ? |
| 18:42 | the parent directory? | |
| 18:42 | atz | right, in my case: |
| 18:42 | PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha | |
| 18:42 | owen | k |
| 18:42 | atz | b/c my C4 is: PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha/C4 |
| 18:43 | that statement is what allows all perl's "use C4::Whatever;" to succeed | |
| 18:43 | nengard | i think the answer to this is easy to figure out - but i want to check - the my reading history tab on the opac - does this nead to have the circ history turned on in the sys preferences? if it does (like i think) and circ history is off - what happens with this tab? |
| 18:44 | owen | Yes, and it should disappear |
| 18:44 | nengard | thanks |
| 18:44 | i'll mark that in the manual | |
| 18:45 | owen | atz: I got an error, starting with "Can't connect to data source dbname=__DB_NAME__;" |
| 18:45 | nengard | owen - opacreadinghistory and intranetreadinghistory - or just opacreadinghistory |
| 18:46 | owen | one controls the opac and the other the staff client |
| 18:46 | nengard | right - so if opac is off the tab won't be there ... but technically the history is still kept - that's important to note for privacy reasons |
| 18:46 | atz | owen: are you using the right KOHA_CONF file? |
| 18:47 | sounds like you are using the one that isn't installed | |
| 18:48 | owen | the one in koha/etc |
| 18:49 | atz | looks like you have 3 there |
| 18:50 | /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf | |
| 18:50 | /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-npl.conf | |
| 18:50 | /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-testing-httpd.conf | |
| 18:50 | owen | Sorry, I was looking at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/etc |
| 18:52 | atz | looks like your active apache config references |
| 18:52 | SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production.xml" | |
| 18:52 | owen | Okay, tried that and got "Died at fines2.pl line 44." |
| 18:53 | atz | so that is probably the right one |
| 18:53 | owen | open (FILE,'>/tmp/fines') || die; |
| 18:53 | So the tmp directory is inaccessible? | |
| 18:55 | atz | heh... crappy static temp naming convention |
| 18:55 | atzarwen:~/koha/production/koha$ ls -l /tmp/fines |
|
| 18:55 | -rw-r--r-- 1 gmc gmc 0 2008-03-18 17:49 /tmp/fines | |
| 18:55 | no yuo overwrite GMC's file! | |
| 18:55 | but i'll kill that, since it's empty | |
| 18:56 | ok, pls try again | |
| 18:56 | owen | Can't call method "output" on an undefined value at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/C4/Calendar.pm line 525. |
| 18:57 | atz | hrm... my Calendar.pm doesn't have a line that matches that at 525 |
| 18:57 | owen | my ($yearFrom,$monthFrom,$dayFrom) = split("-",$startdate->output('iso')); |
| 18:58 | nengard | question about 'my purchase suggestions' has this page been fixed to only show 'my' suggestions? or is it still showing all suggestions? |
| 18:58 | owen | nengard: I think there was a related patch recently, and I haven't seen if it's gone through or not. |
| 18:58 | atz | ok, that makes sense now... it's an error from the output operation on a Dates object |
| 18:58 | acmoore | is this fines2.pl? It needs a little updating, I guess. |
| 18:58 | atz | yeah, i'm sure it does |
| 18:59 | nengard | thanks owen |
| 19:01 | acmoore | nengard, how do you anticipate documenting the handful of cronjobs that koha has? I didn't really see anything in the manual. |
| 19:01 | atz | owen: not sure where the "daysBetween" is getting called from though |
| 19:02 | nengard | i don't know what they all are - when one is required that i know of - i put a note that say contact a system admin - if i create a doc will you start listing them? I can make it look pretty and add content if i just have minimal info .... |
| 19:02 | atz | acmoore: something like "cronjobs should be managed by your system administrator" and then run and hide |
| 19:02 | acmoore | atz++ |
| 19:02 | nengard | atz hehe - that's what it says - word for word :) |
| 19:02 | but really acmoore is right | |
| 19:02 | it should be in there | |
| 19:03 | acmoore | nengard, I'm editing a couple of them now, so I'll make sure that I produce something useful for you. If you point me at a good place, I can put content in there when I'm done. |
| 19:03 | atz | depends on the purpose of the document. For a user manual, no. For a system admin guide, yes. |
| 19:04 | acmoore | some of them are almost required to make koha work rationally, so they should at least be mentioned. |
| 19:04 | atz | yeah |
| 19:04 | nengard | acmoore doc shared with you |
| 19:04 | acmoore | OK. |
| 19:04 | nengard | the manual is for users and sys admins |
| 19:08 | atz | owen: I'll hack on that script really quick |
| 19:09 | owen | Is it possible to set up a page where users can run scripts like fines2.pl with the click of a button if no one has configured cronjobs? |
| 19:10 | atz | owen: I'm not sure that would work for all of them |
| 19:11 | and some depend regular execution to avoid error | |
| 19:11 | nengard | owen i like that idea for any scripts that can work that way |
| 19:12 | i'm quitting for the day - enjoy your long weekend US residents - see you all on Tues (if I can resist the urge to log in while on break) | |
| 19:16 | atz | gah.... CalcFine went from 3 arguments (as in fines2) up to 7 |
| 19:17 | acmoore | it's a good thing they're named arguments. o.O |
| 19:17 | atz | yeah... i wish |
| 19:22 | would be nice if the author had prototyped the sub too... that way we would have known from the beginning where the error was | |
| 19:23 | when perl would complain "3 args is not enough you cheap bastard!" | |
| 19:25 | acmoore | Oh, I never use prototypes. They confuse me. |
| 20:47 | owen | atz, thanks for your help with fines2.pl |
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