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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:16 | CGI928 | hi |
| 11:16 | is anybody there | |
| 13:55 | owen | Hi johnb |
| 13:59 | johnb | Hi owen, just trying out my new computer |
| 14:00 | Yeah, they do smell nice and the keyboard just feel different | |
| 14:02 | soul9 | re |
| 14:59 | fbcit | g'morning koha |
| 15:03 | qiqo | hey guys |
| 15:04 | having some problem here | |
| 15:04 | anyone who can assist? | |
| 15:04 | ive already migrated the database to zebra | |
| 15:04 | when i search the opac nothing shows up | |
| 15:06 | hdl | zebrazrv is launched ? |
| 15:06 | datas are indexed in zebra ? | |
| 15:06 | qiqo | yeah |
| 15:07 | zebrazrv is already a daemon | |
| 15:08 | already exported data in 2.2 to 3.0 | |
| 15:09 | http://121.97.236.216/ | |
| 15:09 | try searching for islam | |
| 15:13 | ok ill try to restart my server | |
| 15:14 | hdl | qiqo: is there no zebra log ? |
| 15:14 | qiqo | hold on ill check |
| 15:15 | where do yo usually have the logs? | |
| 15:20 | gmcharlt | qiqo: if you did the install in "standard" mode, it would be in /var/log/koha |
| 15:20 | qiqo | yeah i saw it |
| 15:20 | hold on | |
| 15:21 | nothing on the logs | |
| 15:21 | zebraqueue, daemon, errors etc | |
| 15:22 | ohh i see something | |
| 15:22 | DBD::mysql::db koha.systempreferencsces doesnt exist | |
| 15:24 | ill put it on pastebin | |
| 15:24 | gmcharlt | ok |
| 15:25 | qiqo | http://pastebin.com/m6aaf53f1 |
| 15:25 | seems to be missing tables | |
| 15:25 | i just followed the instructions on kohadocumentations 22_to_30 | |
| 15:27 | gmcharlt | qiqo: are you able to log in to the staff intranet? |
| 15:27 | qiqo | yeah |
| 15:27 | everything seems to be good | |
| 15:27 | except searching | |
| 15:27 | gmcharlt | I wonder if there might be two copies of $KOHA_CONF / koha-conf.xml running around |
| 15:28 | qiqo | should only be one |
| 15:28 | gmcharlt | with the zebraqueue daemon picking up the wrong |
| 15:28 | one | |
| 15:28 | qiqo | uhuh |
| 15:28 | how do i check on that? | |
| 15:29 | tried echo #KOHA_CONF nothing is there | |
| 15:29 | gmcharlt | if you started zebraquue by running /etc/init.d/koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh, take a look at it |
| 15:30 | and make sure that where it sets KOHA_CONF in the script, that it's pointed to the right koha-conf.xml | |
| 15:30 | which should be the same koha-conf.xml referenced in the Apache config for your Koha virtual hosts | |
| 15:31 | qiqo | no /etc/init.d/koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh.. just koha-zebraqueue-daemon |
| 15:32 | gmcharlt | sorry; yes, that's the right script |
| 15:32 | qiqo | oh ok |
| 15:33 | wait ill just restart my server just to check if zebra is properly starting | |
| 15:33 | gmcharlt | ok |
| 15:34 | qiqo | so when do we expect for the beta realease of 3.0? |
| 15:35 | gmcharlt | hopefully this weekend or early next week kados will announce it |
| 15:35 | qiqo | wow |
| 15:35 | that's cool. a lot of bugs have been fixed | |
| 15:36 | well just bought a dell server for a decent price | |
| 15:36 | gmcharlt | cool -- what specs? |
| 15:37 | qiqo | well it's refurbished, 2 XEON processors running at 2.0GHz |
| 15:37 | 2GB ECC RAM | |
| 15:37 | 2 redundant powersupply | |
| 15:37 | 1 tape backup | |
| 15:38 | 4 SCSI hdds. | |
| 15:38 | pretty decent.. looks new | |
| 15:39 | gmcharlt | good |
| 15:39 | qiqo | $400.. |
| 15:40 | gmcharlt | seriously only $400? |
| 15:40 | qiqo | yep.. |
| 15:40 | hehe | |
| 15:40 | gmcharlt | cool |
| 15:40 | qiqo | it's a poweredge 2600 |
| 15:44 | aww still not working | |
| 15:44 | gmcharlt | do /var/run/koha/zebradb and /var/lock/koha/zebradb exist (known issue on some platforms that I'm writing a patch for as we speak) |
| 15:45 | qiqo | im running debian etch |
| 15:45 | wait ill check | |
| 15:45 | yup they exist | |
| 15:47 | gmcharlt | we can try using yaz-client to see if the Zebra database is accepting searches |
| 15:47 | qiqo | oh ok |
| 15:48 | gmcharlt | so |
| 15:48 | 1. yaz-client | |
| 15:48 | 2. open unix:/var/run/koha/zebradb/bibliosocket | |
| 15:48 | 3. base biblios | |
| 15:48 | qiqo | uhuh |
| 15:48 | ok hold on.. | |
| 15:55 | http://pastebin.com/d52f96291 | |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | looks ok so far |
| 15:56 | do a 'find the' (or whatever a common word might be in your database | |
| 15:56 | and see if it returns any hits | |
| 15:57 | qiqo | number of hits 0 |
| 15:57 | hdl | you should index your data. |
| 15:57 | qiqo | uhuh |
| 15:58 | gmcharlt | yeah -- /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra.pl -b -r |
| 15:58 | hdl | first : move marc to bblioitems. |
| 15:58 | qiqo | oh ok |
| 15:58 | hdl | then |
| 15:58 | what gmcharlt said. | |
| 15:59 | gmcharlt | reindexing was in the 22_to_30 instructions under the 'Zebra/NoZebra stuff' heading, so make sure you've done everything else up to that point |
| 16:00 | qiqo | hmm |
| 16:00 | ok | |
| 16:01 | this one? http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=22_to_30 | |
| 16:01 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 16:02 | qiqo | hmm ive done all of those things, step by step |
| 16:03 | gmcharlt | ok, then let's try the rebuild_zebra again and see the results |
| 16:03 | qiqo | still nothing |
| 16:04 | gmcharlt | did it not produce any output at all? |
| 16:04 | qiqo | yup |
| 16:09 | you have vnc viewer? | |
| 16:10 | i can portforward my vnc server | |
| 16:11 | gmcharlt | just a moment, let me get a VNC client installed |
| 16:12 | qiqo: ready | |
| 16:13 | qiqo | ok |
| 16:15 | just tell me when youre on it | |
| 16:16 | gmcharlt | ok, i'm in |
| 16:16 | qiqo | cool |
| 16:17 | gmcharlt | ok, let me check your koha-conf.xml and zebra directories first |
| 16:17 | qiqo | aryt |
| 16:18 | thank you very much | |
| 16:20 | gmcharlt | looks like index exists but did not really get created |
| 16:20 | next I'm going to switch to the koha user and check your MySQL database to ensure bibliositems.marcxml exists | |
| 16:21 | qiqo | ok |
| 16:22 | vnc is really cool | |
| 16:22 | hehe | |
| 16:22 | gmcharlt | ok, database looks ok so far |
| 16:22 | now I'm going to try indexing | |
| 16:23 | qiqo | aryt |
| 16:23 | ohh | |
| 16:25 | gmcharlt | ok, looks like some zebra directories were created as root -- I'm going to chown koha:koha on the appropriate ones |
| 16:25 | qiqo | ahh ok |
| 16:28 | gmcharlt | are you using UNIMARC or MARC21? |
| 16:28 | qiqo | MARC21 |
| 16:28 | for the Philippines | |
| 16:29 | gmcharlt | ok, looks like biblionumber and biblioitemnumber are still stored in 090 instead of 999 in your DB |
| 16:30 | qiqo | hmm |
| 16:30 | gmcharlt | it's ok, I can make a quick update to your index config |
| 16:30 | qiqo | ok thank you |
| 16:32 | gmcharlt | ok, that's better |
| 16:32 | qiqo | cool |
| 16:32 | hehe | |
| 16:32 | gmcharlt | let me try the yaz search now |
| 16:33 | qiqo | ohh |
| 16:33 | i think i removed the zebra daemon | |
| 16:33 | let's try to run it first | |
| 16:34 | gmcharlt | gotcha |
| 16:34 | qiqo | yup it's not running |
| 16:34 | hehe | |
| 16:34 | i actually removed them a while ago | |
| 16:35 | sorry. :( | |
| 16:35 | gmcharlt | no problem -- script actually resides elsewhere -- the /etc/init.d/ versions are only symlinks |
| 16:36 | qiqo | yeah |
| 16:36 | omg it's running | |
| 16:36 | OMG | |
| 16:36 | thank you very much | |
| 16:36 | gmcharlt | searches working in OPAC now? |
| 16:36 | qiqo | yeah |
| 16:36 | but.. | |
| 16:37 | it has the word "frey 50" | |
| 16:37 | i actually reported these to bugs.koha | |
| 16:37 | also amazon images do not load | |
| 16:37 | because if the isbn has a comment in it. it wont ignore it. (i.e. ppk, hardbound) | |
| 16:38 | gmcharlt | ok, well the latter should be easy enough to fix |
| 16:38 | qiqo | yey! |
| 16:38 | hey thank you very much! i really appreciate the big help gmcharlt | |
| 16:39 | gmcharlt | no problem |
| 16:39 | and it looks like the frey50 stuff is just a UNIMARCism that should be easy enough to take out for MARC21 | |
| 16:39 | qiqo | so the frey50 thing will just be a minor thing? |
| 16:39 | gmcharlt | yeah |
| 16:39 | should be gone by time 3.0 general release is out | |
| 16:40 | qiqo | uhuh.. |
| 16:40 | gmcharlt | I do think you will need to plan on doing the 2.2 -> 3.0 upgrade again after 3.0 comes out |
| 16:40 | 3.0 general release that is | |
| 16:40 | qiqo | yeah i think so.. |
| 16:40 | so ill just stick with 2.2 for now | |
| 16:40 | need to catalogue 1000 titles hehe | |
| 16:41 | gmcharlt | have fun ;-) |
| 16:41 | qiqo | anyway i have 4 harddisks |
| 16:41 | so i can just use one for 2.2 | |
| 16:41 | thank you very much gmcharlt | |
| 16:41 | gmcharlt | and another for Koha 3 in March ;-) |
| 16:41 | you're welcome | |
| 16:41 | qiqo | ohh so that's in march.. |
| 16:41 | ok.. | |
| 16:42 | oh btw | |
| 16:42 | can you see this | |
| 16:42 | it's because the personal name is blank, it was replaced by a date | |
| 16:42 | anyway, i already wrote about these in bugs.koha.org | |
| 16:43 | gmcharlt | yep, I see the bug report -- chris or I will follow up next week |
| 16:43 | qiqo | aryt thank you very much.. |
| 16:44 | gmcharlt | no prob |
| 16:47 | qiqo | hmm our university launched its in-house developed ILS |
| 16:47 | i dunno if it's good or what.. | |
| 16:47 | http://ilib.upd.edu.ph | |
| 16:47 | i still dont trust the programmers.. | |
| 16:47 | i'll stick with koha. proven working | |
| 16:48 | gmcharlt | did they write it entirely from scratch? |
| 16:48 | qiqo | dunno.. looks like koha to me |
| 16:49 | well they claim they started from scratch but who's to know | |
| 16:49 | quite fast with the opac.. but i think the staff interface quite sux | |
| 16:50 | gmcharlt | yeah, looks like a Java servlets app |
| 16:51 | do they intend to open source it? ;-) | |
| 16:51 | qiqo | yeah.. theyve been building that for almost a decade |
| 16:51 | nope | |
| 16:51 | i dont think so | |
| 16:51 | gmcharlt | fie on them, then ;-) |
| 16:51 | qiqo | theyve spent millions on that. they had problems with their programmers |
| 16:52 | hehehe.. | |
| 16:52 | dunno what will happen next if the system crashed | |
| 16:52 | anyway as i have told people here. I am urging our national library to use koha | |
| 16:52 | and they are on their testing stage | |
| 16:52 | they are hoping for 3.0 also.. | |
| 16:53 | gmcharlt | good to hear |
| 16:53 | qiqo | yeah.. but it really needs a lot of customization |
| 16:53 | currently they are using TLS | |
| 16:54 | gmcharlt | what's TLS? |
| 16:54 | qiqo | The Library system |
| 16:54 | they are scrapping it | |
| 16:55 | ohh it's TLC i think | |
| 16:56 | gmcharlt | ahh, TLC I know about |
| 16:56 | yeah, the whole iLib thing looks very similar to Koha, at least from screenhosts from a PowerPoint I found on the net | |
| 16:58 | qiqo | im not suprised |
| 16:58 | gmcharlt | don't really mind them not using Koha -- it's their choice, after all, but I don't see the point of investing millions in a home-grown ILS nowadays unless you're planning to open-source it (or try to sell it as a proprietary product, I suppose) |
| 16:58 | oh well | |
| 16:58 | qiqo | well they want to earn from it |
| 16:58 | hehehe | |
| 16:59 | we actualy have 1 million titles, so they wanted to have an ILS | |
| 17:00 | are you seeing the ppt presentation of arlante? | |
| 17:01 | gmcharlt | this is the one I saw: http://www.localinfonet.net/to[…]cionM.Arlante.ppt , so yeah, Arlante |
| 17:01 | qiqo | oh ok |
| 17:02 | i think the only thing missing is with amazon's integration | |
| 17:57 | christine | hi! is anyone here! |
| 17:58 | gmcharlt | hi christine |
| 17:59 | christine | wow! sorry, i've been on the phone |
| 18:00 | trying to figure this out! | |
| 18:00 | i though IRC was DEAD!!!! | |
| 18:00 | are you going to be at the meeting this afternoon? | |
| 18:02 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 18:02 | or at least, I'll be paying some attention to it, since I also have coding to do | |
| 18:03 | christine | right on. ok. i'm signing off now... just wanted to make sure i could get in. (procrastinated and now don't want to download anything!) |
| 18:03 | maybe talk to you then. ciao! | |
| 18:03 | gmcharlt | later |
| 19:45 | irma | Good day all from Sydney (Australia) |
| 19:46 | mouk | hi irma, good day from holland. |
| 19:47 | Deb | hi irma |
| 19:48 | hi mouk! | |
| 19:48 | thanks for helping me last evening. | |
| 19:48 | mouk | hello deb. no problem. :) |
| 19:48 | irma | hi there Deb |
| 19:49 | Deb | irma, glad you're here! |
| 19:50 | slef I hve noidea what you said | |
| 19:50 | mouk | deb: slef is mj "the developer" |
| 19:51 | (i think) | |
| 19:51 | Deb | mj intimidates me. |
| 19:51 | gmcharlt | yep, slef is MJ |
| 19:52 | Deb | thanks now I know |
| 19:52 | yesteday I thought mouk was mj | |
| 19:52 | irma | mouk: How is the translation of Koha in Dutch going? |
| 19:52 | mouk | this is true. :) |
| 19:52 | yesterday my name was mj, (my real initials) | |
| 19:52 | but I since MJ Ray is so well known here, today I go by 'mouk' | |
| 19:53 | as far as I know, only a few words are transleted... | |
| 19:53 | lated | |
| 19:54 | we are an institute in holland, but we are 100% english-spoken | |
| 19:54 | irma, interested in a dutch translation? where in the world are you? | |
| 19:55 | irma | mouk: I see. Perhaps if a public library adops Koha, there will be a need for a Dutch translation. |
| 19:55 | mouk | true. |
| 19:56 | Deb | we have a few minutes before 2pm cst. I have a few questions. |
| 19:56 | first, this log will be saved right? | |
| 19:57 | rickw | i am saving a copy |
| 19:57 | mouk | me too... |
| 19:57 | rickw | i will then put it up on the web somewhere foranyone who wishes to download it |
| 19:57 | Deb | yes I am too. But I believe the log is saved via #koha as well |
| 19:57 | rickw | dunno |
| 19:57 | Deb | gmcharlt do you know? |
| 19:57 | Perhaps it doesn't matter. | |
| 19:57 | mouk | there are here: http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl |
| 19:58 | gmcharlt | mouk++ |
| 19:58 | Deb | thanks mouk++ |
| 19:58 | still learning the commands. | |
| 19:58 | rickw thanks for all your help last night. | |
| 19:58 | rickw | then there are idioms to learn sa well |
| 19:58 | Deb | I wish so many people came to my aid on a regular basis in rl |
| 19:59 | rickw | LOL ... yeah, we wish! |
| 19:59 | Deb | ok, according to my computer clock it's 2:01 shall we start? |
| 19:59 | mouk | it's one minute before, here... |
| 19:59 | rickw | on commence! |
| 19:59 | mouk | maybe the time difference... |
| 19:59 | rickw | 5 seconds to, here |
| 20:00 | Deb | Thank you all for coming to this virtual KUDOS meeting |
| 20:00 | V | How many of us are on? |
| 20:00 | rickw | what does KUDOS stand for? |
| 20:00 | attendance is about 24 right now | |
| 20:00 | Deb | I have no idea how many folks are here, but welcome! I know we have people from all over the world! Cool!!! |
| 20:00 | rickw | here is a list: |
| 20:00 | Deb MatthewMetzger V atz chris cm donovan fbcit gmcharlt irma jaron JoRansom kados marla martinmorris masonj | |
| 20:00 | +mouk nengard newlogbot paul randym rickw ryan saorge_ si slef soul9 thd-away | |
| 20:01 | Deb | KUDOS=Koha Users and Developers of Open Source Software. |
| 20:01 | Joshua Ferrraro of LibLime came up with that name. Creative, huh? | |
| 20:01 | rickw | (note that some of the nicks on the list are bots) |
| 20:01 | irma | Joshua++ |
| 20:01 | rickw | Jushua += createive |
| 20:01 | Deb | However, someone mentioned and I think it was MJRay, that 'free' should be somewhere in the name. |
| 20:01 | mouk | so, it's not a group that's supposed to be KOHA specific? (koha & Developers of Open Source Software) |
| 20:02 | V | what's a bot? |
| 20:02 | rickw | robot |
| 20:02 | a piece of software to do something | |
| 20:02 | should have been AI, but AI has failed ;) | |
| 20:02 | Deb | What do you mean by 'koha'specific? |
| 20:02 | V | Yes, but... |
| 20:02 | JoRansom | just for Koha users and developers? |
| 20:02 | mouk | it's aimed at koha users, right? |
| 20:02 | V | OK, got it |
| 20:02 | rickw | i think mouk is pointing out the ambiguity of the conjunction etween "koha" and "developers" |
| 20:03 | mouk | i read it as: group for koha users, and Developers of Open Source Software |
| 20:03 | Deb | Did I not say Koha Users and Developers? |
| 20:03 | JoRansom | so the name doesn't quite mean what we wantg it to mean |
| 20:03 | Deb | joransom what do you mean? |
| 20:03 | christine_santa | hi, sorry i'm late. |
| 20:03 | rickw | ah: Koha Users And Developers |
| 20:03 | Deb | no prob christine |
| 20:03 | JoRansom | i read it more as been koha users who use open source software - as in the emphasis is on the other os not on koha |
| 20:04 | Deb | yes, koha users and koha developers of open source software |
| 20:04 | rickw | this is already ready getting pythonesque ... anyone for latin? |
| 20:04 | Deb | Is Kados on here? He could clarifiy |
| 20:04 | V | It does sound like it means koha and other open source users |
| 20:04 | Deb | Or John Brice? |
| 20:04 | mouk | so I;m guessing it like: group of koha users and koha developers. |
| 20:04 | nengard | deb:kados is out presenting |
| 20:04 | rickw | yes. that's it. |
| 20:04 | mouk | right. |
| 20:04 | rickw | (i think we all knew that anyway) |
| 20:04 | Deb | ok, you all make good points. I will share this with John and Josh, how's that? |
| 20:04 | V | glad that's settled |
| 20:05 | Deb | ok. I have to make an apology. |
| 20:05 | mouk | good. |
| 20:05 | MatthewMetzger | V: me, too |
| 20:05 | Deb | In my email yesterday I stated 'company' |
| 20:05 | rickw | Deb mentioned one quasi-agenda item: Facebook |
| 20:05 | Deb | when I should have said 'companies'. |
| 20:05 | V | How many of us are koha users already? |
| 20:06 | christine_santa | i am |
| 20:06 | Deb | There are several companies that support and host Koha, not just one. |
| 20:06 | rickw | i am |
| 20:06 | mouk | i am. |
| 20:06 | JoRansom | i am |
| 20:06 | horowhenua library trust - NZ | |
| 20:06 | V | Thanks. |
| 20:06 | MatthewMetzger | our Library is migrating from 2.2.9 to 3.0 apha |
| 20:06 | rickw | deb: facebook? |
| 20:06 | Deb | MJRay caught it and mentioned it to me. I'm making a public and formal apology. |
| 20:06 | See why I'm intimidated? | |
| 20:06 | JoRansom | thanks Deb. |
| 20:06 | rickw | deb: don't worry. you'll do fine |
| 20:06 | Deb | Facebook--yes. At the moment I'm the only administrator. |
| 20:07 | rickw | what does that mean? |
| 20:07 | Deb | Would anyone else be willing to help with this? |
| 20:07 | rickw | admin of facebook? |
| 20:07 | MatthewMetzger | rickw: admin of a facebook group? |
| 20:08 | Deb | admin on the facebook KUDOS group means that I'm the only one who can make changes to the profile and a few other functions. |
| 20:08 | Anyone willing to take this on? | |
| 20:09 | At the moment we have 43 members. Not bad since the group's been up for less than 90 days. | |
| 20:09 | irma | Deb: Sorry, too busy already. |
| 20:09 | V | Is the intent of Facebook as the primary source of communication among us? |
| 20:09 | Deb | That's my issue. I have 2 huge projects. |
| 20:10 | V I don't think so. At the moment it's the listservs. The KUDOS and Kapito listservs | |
| 20:10 | V | Why Facebook then? |
| 20:10 | JoRansom | Kapito = Katipo (for newbies) |
| 20:11 | Deb | FaceBook is a great social networking tool. You can invite all the members to a function, mention meeting times. and interact. |
| 20:11 | dang it. typing way too fast. | |
| 20:11 | JoRansom | lol |
| 20:12 | Deb | Based on the lack of response, no one at this meeting is willing to take it on. so, let's move on. |
| 20:12 | irma | Deb: Do I read that you would like support with organising this IRC meeting for example? |
| 20:12 | Deb | irma, not sure what you mean here. Can you clarify a bit? |
| 20:13 | irma | Deb: the communication to notify all of time and place... |
| 20:13 | mouk | i don't see why that cannot be done though the regular mailinglists... |
| 20:13 | irma | and you might be thinking about emailing the list later today with a summary? |
| 20:13 | Deb | Well, here's the thing. And I'm gonna go slow for myself. |
| 20:14 | In the email I sent out there are several communication venues. | |
| 20:14 | website, listserv, facebook and the IRC. | |
| 20:15 | I don't believe there's a Koha User Group in the U.S. established at the moment. | |
| 20:15 | ARe there any around the world? | |
| 20:15 | JoRansom | not in NZ |
| 20:15 | slef | I'm happy to help with the Facebook (I'm on it, wish I wasn't) but I'm non-US. |
| 20:15 | Deb: there's kohala, based in Paris, not sure if it's France-only | |
| 20:15 | irma | not in Australia (yet) |
| 20:16 | Deb | so, John Brice and I with LibLime's support and help organized the first KUDOS meeting at ALAMW08. |
| 20:16 | JoRansom | a facebook admin need not live in US I wouldn't have thought |
| 20:16 | MatthewMetzger | slef: I closed (deactivated) my facebook account. I recommend free community services. website. listserve. and IRC |
| 20:16 | mouk | (no group in holland) |
| 20:17 | Deb | At that meeting, we were not able to get to a point where we could put together an actual users group with a mission statement, bylaws, etc. |
| 20:17 | So, we were going to do that at PLA. Which John is intending to do. | |
| 20:17 | slef | MatthewMetzger: I'm playing with NoseRub at http://cooperativemagazine.co.uk/ ; and deactivating your facebook account means they keep your info - there's a court case pending in England IIRC |
| 20:17 | Deb | Anyway, I had to drop out because my rl workload increased. |
| 20:17 | mouk | i know: that's why I'm not going to signup for facebook |
| 20:18 | MatthewMetzger | slef: I'm glad someone is taking legal action, but to focus on koha business .... |
| 20:18 | Deb | So, as I stated in the email, we'll let John move ahead with the Planning of the KUDOS user group at PLA. |
| 20:18 | custard | the silence could also mean were not all convinced of the need to be part of yet another web social-organising thingy (ie facebook). |
| 20:18 | Deb | omg. I hadn't heard about the facebook lawsuit. |
| 20:18 | mouk | custard speaks wisely |
| 20:19 | MatthewMetzger | custard: does speak wisely |
| 20:19 | Deb | well, facebook is VERY popular in the states. |
| 20:19 | mouk | not so much in holland. |
| 20:19 | Deb | FaceBook is making it popular for businesses as well. |
| 20:19 | christine_santa | ok folks. sorry i've only lasted 10 minutes. sounds like i missed the drama. was a little monte python-esque for a bit. gotta go. will read if it's archived. i gotta run. ciao! |
| 20:19 | slef | I was at an education conference recently (to be blogged soon) and it seemed FaceBook was popular among them. And I think OCLCers also liked it. |
| 20:20 | Deb | All I'm asking with regard to facebook is if someone will be willing to help. |
| 20:20 | CGI763 | Hi All, I'm logged on thru Koha so name not shown, Susan, I'm willing to help but just started Koha, not live yet. |
| 20:20 | slef | yes, but I'll stand aside if you find a USer... mail me after |
| 20:20 | Deb | looks like slef is willing. |
| 20:20 | Is that correct? | |
| 20:21 | I'm not sure about OCLCers. I haven't looked at their group. | |
| 20:21 | slef are you willing? | |
| 20:22 | slef | yep |
| 20:22 | Deb | great thanks. WE can email off IRC if that's ok with you? |
| 20:22 | slef | yes |
| 20:22 | Deb | great. That's all i had. Anyone else? |
| 20:22 | slef | facebook legal woes http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7196803.stm |
| 20:23 | Deb | Thanks! |
| 20:23 | V | I'd prefer not to rely on Facebook for our communications and info. |
| 20:23 | irma | same with me |
| 20:23 | mouk | i agree V |
| 20:23 | Deb | Does everyone else agree with V? |
| 20:23 | marla | I do. |
| 20:23 | Deb | ok, sound like it's unanimous. I'll let John and Josh know. |
| 20:23 | JoRansom | yep |
| 20:24 | Deb | The real reason for this meeting is it was one last task that I had from the ALAMW08 organizational meeting. |
| 20:24 | slef | I think there's a subscription module for wordpress (which powers the current kudos web page) which would let people get announcements by email if they want. |
| 20:24 | Deb | When I invited people, so many couldn't attend, and many wanted a virtual method for meeting. |
| 20:24 | So, how's this working for all of you? | |
| 20:25 | slef how's that work? | |
| 20:25 | JoRansom | is fine |
| 20:25 | marla | OK here. |
| 20:26 | slef | Deb: not sure of specifics - not used it myself yet - I think it would just add a "enter your email address here to receive announcements" box to the side bar on the KUDOS web pages. |
| 20:26 | V | So far, so good. |
| 20:26 | Rosa | Ok for me |
| 20:26 | Deb | would you be willing to check it out and email us via the 2 listservs and we could all try it? |
| 20:26 | custard | could I put in a vote for about an hour later? |
| 20:26 | slef | fine with IRC, but time isn't great for England, but that's fine as it's not a group aimed at us ;-) |
| 20:26 | Deb: 2 listservs? | |
| 20:27 | Deb | yep. KUDOS and Koha.Katipo something. Don't have them memorized. |
| 20:27 | mouk | slef, what england now: 21:00? |
| 20:27 | slef | mouk: use mj if you want - I'm always slef or something like it on IRC. |
| 20:27 | Deb: 20:25 | |
| 20:27 | oops | |
| 20:27 | mouk | so problem. on msn I'm actually always mouk :) |
| 20:27 | slef | mouk: 20:25 |
| 20:27 | mouk | thanks anyway |
| 20:27 | so=no problem | |
| 20:27 | custard | but then I'm not in the US either, so this isn't realy aimed at me. |
| 20:28 | Deb | what do you all mean it's 'not aimed at me.' |
| 20:28 | slef | Deb: I'll try to mail both, but I'm not currently subscribed to the KUDOS one so it might not allow me. |
| 20:28 | Deb: I thought KUDOS is a US group? | |
| 20:28 | slef: we euros are better off looking to kohala (for tax reasons if nothing else) as I understand it. | |
| 20:29 | slef: you're talking to yourself again. | |
| 20:29 | slef: sorry | |
| 20:29 | Deb | I'm not sure about that. When Josh and I spoke about it it was world wide. Just a sec. LEt me go to the Koha.org wiki. be right back. |
| 20:29 | mouk | slef haha |
| 20:29 | JoRansom | I lik the idea of a worldwide group. |
| 20:30 | slef | paul_: you there? |
| 20:30 | Deb | what it says on the wiki is: This is the beginnings of the Koha Users and Developers of Open Source Group (Acronym KUDOSa working titlesuggestions welcome! |
| 20:30 | The user group is being created for Koha users worldwide. | |
| 20:30 | slef | argh |
| 20:30 | JoRansom | and it doesn't preclude related groups, like the French users group |
| 20:30 | custard | I do to, but it does mean that some of us are going to loose out time wise, |
| 20:30 | Deb | I don't know. I don't have answer for that. |
| 20:30 | custard | s/to/too |
| 20:31 | Deb | Perhaps this conversation needs to include both John and Joshua. |
| 20:31 | slef | I'd really love a more inclusive, less USian name, then. |
| 20:31 | probably, but I'm sure we've discussed it in the past... I'll see if the logger has it | |
| 20:31 | Deb | Something told me you would slef;) |
| 20:32 | I'm not here to make any decisions. I'm simply providing a virtual meeting venue. | |
| 20:33 | I'm also not really organizing anything at the moment. | |
| 20:33 | Rosa | There is an email on the Koha lisserv this morning from someone in Kenya, looking for other KOha users to share with. |
| 20:33 | Deb | Yes I saw that. |
| 20:34 | Rosa | And I'm aware there are a number of other libraries using Koha in southern Africa. So I think we should ne trying to be as inclusive as possible |
| 20:35 | rickw | one thing i would like to reaise with developers: the need for automted release testings |
| 20:35 | Deb | So, what I'm hearing is that you all would like a worldwide Koha Users Group. IS this correct? |
| 20:35 | V | Someone, please remind me how to get to the Koha lisserv? |
| 20:35 | Deb | But doesn't France have one? |
| 20:35 | slef | V: lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha from memory |
| 20:35 | V | Thanks. |
| 20:35 | rickw | e.g. when you get ready to install a Perl module: make t est <=== do this step first and the see if the module works |
| 20:36 | Koha software needs similar | |
| 20:36 | slef | rickw: tests have started appearing, but post-install ones so far, as most of C4 needs the database configured |
| 20:36 | mouk | i think IF there is a group, it should be worldwide, yes. |
| 20:36 | rickw | self: yes, I do mean post install |
| 20:37 | so, not exactly like perl | |
| 20:37 | Deb | Ok, let me give you a bit of history about how this came about. |
| 20:37 | slef | rickw: ok, cool, it's underway ;-) |
| 20:37 | Deb | I chair a users group for III software. |
| 20:37 | rickw | anyone know why the name C4 ? |
| 20:37 | Deb | III has a worldwide users group. So do other proprietary ILS vendors. |
| 20:37 | slef | rickw: it's rumoured that it used to be explosively unstable. |
| 20:38 | rickw | and is C4 an explosive? |
| 20:38 | mouk | :) |
| 20:38 | slef | rickw: yep. Go watch Die Hard. |
| 20:38 | Deb | Here's how ours works. There's a worldwide group that has a mission, bylaws, it's nonprofit, all of that. |
| 20:38 | rickw | uhg |
| 20:38 | Deb | Then there are regional users groups, like mine. None of the users groups have |
| 20:39 | any affiliation with the III company per se. | |
| 20:39 | The regional user groups meet 2x a year and the worldwide group meets 1x per year. | |
| 20:39 | Our yearly meeting this year is in April in Washington D.C. | |
| 20:39 | There I will meet III users from all over the world. | |
| 20:40 | V | What is III? |
| 20:40 | Deb | EAch user group has members, a dues structure, and generally charge a registration fee for meetings. |
| 20:41 | Joshua was invited to one of our regional meetings and saw how it was organized and set up. | |
| 20:41 | diana | As in Triple III? |
| 20:41 | Deb | Thought it would be a good idea to create a Koha Users group. |
| 20:41 | JoRansom | Deb: what is it that the users group sets out to achieve: goals etc? |
| 20:41 | rosalie | the reason for C4 is in the mists of time. It stood for a Cheap and Cheerful Copy of Catalist, which was the ILS Horowhenua Library Trust was using when we decided to develop Koha |
| 20:41 | rickw | thx rosalie |
| 20:42 | Deb | John Brice and I volunteered to create the group, but it didn't happen at ALAMW08, so he's going to have a meeting at PLA. |
| 20:42 | with me so far? | |
| 20:42 | rickw | diana: you mean IIIIIIIII? |
| 20:42 | Deb | diana yes IIIIIIIII |
| 20:42 | JoRansom | DEb: yes |
| 20:42 | slef | rosalie: thanks! |
| 20:42 | Deb | sorry. typing and not reading |
| 20:43 | joransom the user group sets out to provide training and expertise in areas the members want. | |
| 20:43 | mouk | no problem deb, i'm doing quite the opposite |
| 20:43 | rosalie | that's one good purpose |
| 20:43 | randym | Deb: how does KUDOS relate to the Koha Interest Groups http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ohainterestgroups ? |
| 20:43 | Deb | So, for example, the catalogers want to know more about how to migrate records into III from OCLC some member may say they'll do a presentation on that. |
| 20:44 | JoRansom | cool. Is the group aiming to help shape development of Koha? ie communicating to the developers what we as users want and need? |
| 20:45 | and how it should work and why we may want a range of options sometimes to solve a problem? | |
| 20:45 | Deb | The reason Joshua was invited was due to the fact so many III libraries began looking at the next generation ILS, heard about Open Source and wanted to know more |
| 20:45 | JoRansom | and a 3rd reason maybe, to co-fund significant development which we could all benefit from |
| 20:45 | diana | Josh did an excellent presentation here in Lawrence, Ks for us yesterday |
| 20:45 | 3.0 is a great improvement over 2.2 | |
| 20:45 | Deb | The steering committee (each user group has a steering commitee made up of a secretary, treasurer, member at large, chair and a chair-elect) |
| 20:46 | Based on the feedback from members (we always have the members do a feedback form after every conference) they wanted to know more about open source. | |
| 20:46 | We invited LibLime and Joshua came. | |
| 20:47 | rosalie | i don't see that preaching about open source is the main purpose of this group |
| 20:47 | irma | LibLime++++ |
| 20:47 | Deb | The next meeting we invited someone using or migrating to Koha, so John STromquist came from WALDO. |
| 20:47 | rosalie | It's good to do (and I do it) but this group should be people who use Koha |
| 20:47 | and want to share experience and plan together | |
| 20:48 | V | Yes. |
| 20:48 | Deb | rosalie as opposed to? |
| 20:48 | rosalie | preaching about open source |
| 20:48 | JoRansom | and we need to balance the developer-user relationship in the development of koha |
| 20:48 | slef | I'm also a little bit mixed emotions if a (presumably tax-exempt) user group is going to compete with the koha development companies by providing training and charging fees. |
| 20:48 | irma | Not working in silos here and there but with increased collaboration. We are all so short of time. |
| 20:49 | Deb | slef you bring up a good point and this is where John Brice and Joshua could help. |
| 20:49 | I'm not the person at the moment to help organize the Koha User group for the following reasons. | |
| 20:49 | a. I'm preaching about OS. | |
| 20:49 | b. I'm a Koha user only part time. | |
| 20:50 | Our libraries have not and may never migrate to Koha. | |
| 20:50 | Having said that, I will continue to learn to use Koha. | |
| 20:50 | Will I be excluded from the group then? | |
| 20:51 | mouk | haha, i guess not. :) |
| 20:51 | I'm not a koha user myself, I've inly installed it here. :) | |
| 20:51 | V | Many here are only thinking of using Koha, I think. Isn't that right? |
| 20:51 | JoRansom | I could see the user group deciding on a set of enhancements and then commssioning one of the Koha support compnaies to do the work. Might be Limlime, might be someone in France or anywhere... |
| 20:52 | slef | I don't see why. As I understand it, you could in theory join kohala today, but I can't remember whether I've translated their rules into English. |
| 20:52 | Deb | joransom yes, this is something that John Brice brought up. I wish he were here. |
| 20:52 | CGI763 | we are migrating- hope to by live mid-April |
| 20:52 | mouk | JoRansom: that is a very good idea. |
| 20:52 | slef | JoRansom: if koha users want to form a consumer cooperative, I'd welcome that and offer what assistance I could. |
| 20:52 | mouk | (not that i have any specific requests) |
| 20:52 | JoRansom | But, and its a big but, we would need a strong well organised user group |
| 20:53 | Deb | a consumer cooperative is different that a user group |
| 20:53 | slef | CGI763: if you type /nick yourrealname (replacing yourrealname with something like your name) you should be more memorable |
| 20:53 | Deb | I'm willing to help organize a user group, but a. Idon't want to do it alone. |
| 20:53 | b. would you want me to? Knowing how I use Koha? | |
| 20:54 | Susan | thanks! |
| 20:55 | slef | Deb: need consumer cooperatives be different to user groups, except that they're typically more democratic and active economic participants? ;-) |
| 20:55 | Susan: no problem. | |
| 20:55 | Deb: questions for a wider audience, perhaps. | |
| 20:55 | Deb | slef here's my understanding of the difference: the cooperatives would be |
| 20:56 | driven and attended more by developers, while the user group focuses on staff librarians and their issues. | |
| 20:56 | Doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to use an existing model. | |
| 20:56 | My brain is flexible. | |
| 20:57 | JoRansom | I quite liked that Koha was driven by librarians - and the developers made it |
| 20:57 | diana | user groups share best practices |
| 20:57 | slef | erm, developer cooperatives (like www.ttllp.co.uk aka www.software.coop) would be developer-driven, but they probably couldn't take a large role in user cooperatives |
| 20:57 | V | Are there two Debs online? |
| 20:57 | Deb | joransom not sure what you mean by your comment. Can you expand? |
| 20:57 | JoRansom | I would be sad to see librarians once again in a position where we have to accept what developers give us |
| 20:57 | custard | so what lnks between them? |
| 20:58 | Deb | no, just one Deb. |
| 20:58 | JoRansom | as we are so often with turnkey systems |
| 20:58 | Deb | custard lost the thread. What are you commenting on? |
| 20:58 | custard | One of the thinks I liked the sound of about koha was that there appeared to be pretty good links between users and developers. |
| 20:58 | slef | JoRansom: I'm not sure that can ever happen with koha, with multiple developers and low barriers to entry |
| 20:58 | custard | the UG/Co-op comments |
| 20:59 | Deb | custard who are the 'users?' |
| 20:59 | slef | custard: yeah. We're not software barons. We can't dictate to users. |
| 20:59 | Deb | ARe they librarians or technical people? |
| 20:59 | JoRansom | Koha was a marriage between librarians who could describve what we wanted and developers who could take those words and make a system that achieved what we wanted and needed. |
| 20:59 | cm | hey, some of us are librarians *and* technical. ;) |
| 20:59 | Deb | joransom gottcha |
| 20:59 | JoRansom | making suggestions for cool ways to achieve things. |
| 20:59 | slef | cm++ |
| 21:00 | rosalie | ? |
| 21:00 | Deb | cm me too. didn't mean anything negative |
| 21:00 | cm | i know. just ribbing! |
| 21:00 | Deb | rosalie what's your question? |
| 21:00 | JustSomeGuy | Sorry I'm so late to the party. Was there any discussion, by chance, of when the beta 3.0 might be released? |
| 21:00 | rickw | nope |
| 21:00 | rosalie | the ++, but I guess it just means I agree? |
| 21:01 | JustSomeGuy | I've been holding off getting into Koha , assuming I shouldn't get the alpha at this point... |
| 21:01 | rickw | is see ++ as "double plus good" (see Orwell's 1984) |
| 21:01 | slef | rosalie: it's an attempt to give karma points to cm, but I think there's no karma bot in here |
| 21:01 | Deb | well, we're coming up on an hour of this meeting. |
| 21:01 | Susan | Debra at LibLime mention March for Koha 3 release |
| 21:01 | rickw | JustSomeGuy: try Koha/2.2.9 |
| 21:02 | Deb | slef has a sense of humor ;-) |
| 21:02 | Susan | Beta any day |
| 21:02 | slef | JustSomeGuy: I should be able to make you a tarball of current post-alpha pre-beta 3 if you want to play. Got 5 minutes? |
| 21:02 | Deb | Well, we've covered new ground here and it was not my intention to do this. |
| 21:02 | slef | Deb: slef scares me too. |
| 21:03 | rickw | deb: did you want to cover old ground instead? |
| 21:03 | custard | deb: Just for a minute there it sounded we were talking about a UG (for the librarians) and a co-op for developers and seperation between the two in this situation is bad. |
| 21:03 | but the conversation seems to have moved on. | |
| 21:03 | rosalie | I agree, custard |
| 21:04 | the seperation needs to be avoided | |
| 21:04 | slef | custard: there's already one co-op for developers, but there are other developers too. I think there's a slight risk of conflict of interest if the UG becomes too developer-dirven. |
| 21:04 | Deb | custard I don't have expertise in combining the two. I only have expertise in organizing user groups. |
| 21:04 | rosalie | building that bridge should be one of the purposes of this group |
| 21:04 | custard | slef: does it get past step three of the web installer on darwin? |
| 21:04 | rickw | self: is the co-op for developers the Koha-Devel list? |
| 21:04 | slef | custard: NAFAIK |
| 21:05 | V | yslef, yes, especially for users who are not technical (as I am not) |
| 21:05 | slef | rickw: www.ttllp.co.uk is a co-op for developers (not just of koha, for everything) |
| 21:05 | irma | I like to give an example of how I would turn to KUDOS for help: "LibraryThing 4 libraries" for eample. I would like to review the library's reasons fro wishing to add it to their OPAC. Later review library patrons' commnent etc. |
| 21:06 | slef | rickw: I'd love either more koha developers in it, or other co-ops to get into koha development. |
| 21:06 | rickw | self: if i ever worked on Koha software, I'd start recording it in python! |
| 21:06 | Deb | Would other co-ops include other OS ILS developers? |
| 21:06 | rickw | s/recording/recoding/ |
| 21:06 | custard | What I'm attempting to say is that if you're going down a user focused group, you need links to the developers |
| 21:06 | Deb | Perhaps I should say 'could' |
| 21:07 | slef | rickw: do it and I'll replace half your tabs with random numbers of spaces. ;-) |
| 21:07 | Deb: yes, probably. | |
| 21:08 | JoRansom | (I was hoping you were watching rach) |
| 21:08 | rach | so if you meet in this sort of forum we can all read back on a meeting, even if we aren't participating |
| 21:08 | Deb | omg if slef is small fry who's the big guns? |
| 21:08 | rach I know. | |
| 21:08 | slef | rach, kados, paul_ |
| 21:08 | gmcharlt: drinking beer, aren't you? | |
| 21:08 | diana | i like that example irma |
| 21:08 | Deb | I was just about to suggest we end this meeting and take it off line to the listservs? |
| 21:09 | gmcharlt | slef: alas, I'm actually working at the moment ;) |
| 21:09 | rickw | gmcharlt: drink beer *and* do youro work ;) |
| 21:09 | irma | Diana: thanks and do you have an example? |
| 21:09 | slef | gmcharlt: does that prevent drinking beer where you work? dull ;-) |
| 21:09 | gmcharlt | slef: don't want to write my Perl using lots of Javaisms, now, do we :) |
| 21:10 | rickw | 200 lines of Java == 1 line of perl/python ;) |
| 21:10 | irma | It's time for me to start real life work...only a few minutes left before I shoot off |
| 21:10 | Deb | questions: do you all want to continue this discussion off line? |
| 21:10 | cm | btw, i'm installing a 'subscribe' box on the wordpress site (http://ccfls.org/kudos) as suggested --almost done. |
| 21:10 | V | Can't right now. |
| 21:11 | rach | the koha mailing list is for koha users to both talk/question developers and support each other |
| 21:11 | so please use it for that, it would be excellent | |
| 21:11 | Deb | Where we could continue the discussion and have time to think about things |
| 21:11 | before answering? | |
| 21:11 | slef | cm++ |
| 21:11 | Deb | Or continue or |
| 21:11 | meet again on the IRC? | |
| 21:11 | rach | my personal opinion is that if there are in person meetings going on, then they will be regional and should actually "say" they are regional, because who has the budget for international travel? |
| 21:11 | JoRansom | I support sticking to the established communication channels for the project |
| 21:12 | rickw | ditto |
| 21:12 | Deb | joransom what project? |
| 21:12 | Is there a project? | |
| 21:12 | JoRansom | prokect = koha project |
| 21:12 | = koha .. | |
| 21:12 | Deb | what koha project. Have I dropped another thread? |
| 21:12 | JoRansom | (was our wee project once .. old habits) |
| 21:12 | rosalie | it's a work in progress |
| 21:12 | JoRansom | sorry |
| 21:12 | rosalie | isn't it? |
| 21:13 | rach | yep it is :-) |
| 21:13 | Deb | still not sure what project--please clarify... |
| 21:13 | atz | Deb: the one great Koha project to rule them all. |
| 21:13 | rach | the development of the koha software is "a project" |
| 21:13 | irma | sure is...look at the leaps of the last few months! |
| 21:13 | JoRansom | go atz! |
| 21:13 | Deb | so we've left the user group and coop in the dust? |
| 21:14 | slef | no, it's all part of the project |
| 21:14 | rosalie | so lets adjourn and think, and send ideas to the Koha list about what this Koha users group could/should be doing |
| 21:14 | JoRansom | we need a reason for wanting / having a user group. |
| 21:14 | rickw | we need a manifesto! |
| 21:14 | JoRansom | what did you want to achieve today Deb? |
| 21:14 | rach | I really support the idea of people getting together in small focused groups because they have a common interest that might be more than just koha |
| 21:15 | Deb | not a manifesto, please |
| 21:15 | thanks slef | |
| 21:15 | V | Is "Koha list" the same as lisserv? |
| 21:15 | rickw | V: yes |
| 21:15 | rach | I mean the same thing yes |
| 21:15 | Deb | there are two listservs |
| 21:15 | V | Thanks, rickw |
| 21:15 | gmcharlt | I vote for three years of ALA-style commitee meetings! |
| 21:15 | Deb | One is for koha |
| 21:15 | rach | I think that deb has another list as well |
| 21:15 | Deb | the other for kudos |
| 21:15 | I send to both. | |
| 21:15 | slef | gmcharlt: have you been reading librarian.net too? |
| 21:15 | rickw | is there already a KUDOS list? |
| 21:16 | gmcharlt | slef: yep, constantly |
| 21:16 | Deb | That way any new kudos listserv folks can get into the conversation |
| 21:16 | cm | yeah, see ccfls.org/kudos for subscription info |
| 21:16 | Deb | how bout sending to both? |
| 21:16 | rach | there are 2 koha lists + debs new one, a general koha users list - kohalists.katipo.co.nz, |
| 21:16 | JoRansom | why do we ned 2 lists? |
| 21:16 | rickw | urgh .. a plethora of lists is dveloping here |
| 21:16 | rach | and a koha developers lis, plus some language support lists |
| 21:16 | Deb | yes just a sec. I'll get the kudos listserv address |
| 21:16 | rickw | cross-posting and reading multiple lists is a PITA |
| 21:16 | JoRansom | why do we need 2 lists? |
| 21:16 | slef | rickw: we need a list to coordinate mailing lists |
| 21:17 | Deb | KUDOS listserv kudos-listccfls.org |
| 21:17 | rickw | yes@ |
| 21:17 | and nominate a list co-ordinator co-ordinator. | |
| 21:17 | JoRansom | lets just use the koha list please, please |
| 21:17 | rickw | welcome to the dept of redundancy dept |
| 21:17 | rosalie | we need one for developers - the koha develpers list, and one other. No more, please |
| 21:17 | slef | rach: btw, can the koha list archive be split by month? The index pages are getting a bit big. |
| 21:17 | Deb | well, we don't need 2, but they're there. Some of hte new koha users who are supported by LibLime may use one and not the other and you'd want them to be engaged right? |
| 21:17 | rickw | i vote for just two lists ... that's enuf! |
| 21:17 | we all are prolly on many other lists too, don't forget! | |
| 21:17 | gmcharlt | Deb: one possibility is to start small -- think of KUDOS as just a way to have an umbrella to reserve meeting space at ALA, PLA, IFLA conferences |
| 21:18 | JoRansom | so really its a Liblime clients list and the koha list? |
| 21:18 | gmcharlt | I agree that one koha mailing list and one koha-devel list is enough |
| 21:18 | atz | LibLime can keep its own lists, methinks |
| 21:18 | (and I work there) | |
| 21:18 | rach | :-) |
| 21:18 | Deb | gmcharlt I don't undestand your comment. could you expand? |
| 21:18 | rach | slef - will go look at archiving |
| 21:18 | JoRansom | sounds like we are agreed? |
| 21:19 | koha dev, koha list, liblimes list? | |
| 21:19 | Deb | joransom, can't say for sure. You guys have gone way beyond the scope of what I sent out. |
| 21:19 | gmcharlt | I also work there -- I don't think LL was thinking of KUDOS as being a customers of LibLime group -- that would be organized separately, if such a thing is needed in the future |
| 21:19 | JoRansom | (coz liblime clients may well want their own list outside of the main koha lists) |
| 21:20 | rach | hmm it says it is monthly |
| 21:20 | rosalie | so what is the kudos list? |
| 21:20 | slef | rach: maybe it changed since I last tried - sorry! |
| 21:20 | rickw | ... and why is it needed on top of the existing [Koha] list? |
| 21:20 | slef | rach: thanks for looking anyway |
| 21:20 | JoRansom | exactly? |
| 21:20 | gmcharlt | Deb: my idea is that since it would be a Good Thing to have Koha users who are going to things like the ALA meeting be able to meet up anyway |
| 21:20 | JoRansom | sounds superfluos to me ... |
| 21:20 | Deb | the kudos listserv came about when we organized the first KUDOS meeting. |
| 21:20 | slef | rickw: koha list tends to be mostly support questions. kudos would be for event organisation and so on, I think. |
| 21:20 | atz | i say, use the existing channels until they break or prove unsuitable |
| 21:20 | gmcharlt | Deb: KUDOS could exist (at least initially) simple as a way to organize such meetings |
| 21:21 | slef | atz: what you see as "existing" depends on where you stand. |
| 21:21 | Deb | gmcharlt gottcha. slow here |
| 21:21 | rach | if you set up kudos as a "paid for" group, ie where people are paying dues etc, then I can see it would need it's own list to communicate with it's members, and that would likely be a private list |
| 21:21 | atz | slef: what, alt.computing isn't good enough for ya? |
| 21:21 | rickw | if KUDOS is for organising things like meetings, fine. keep the developer requests and support on [Koha] i say |
| 21:22 | Deb | Ok, I have a few questions. I'll pass this info onto John and Joshua. |
| 21:22 | atz | welcome to the party, owen |
| 21:22 | gmcharlt | Deb: and under that approach, there's no reason why KUDOS activity couldn't be done on the main koha mailing list unless/until it starts generating a lot of traffic (but as rach says, if it becomes something that you have to pay dues for, then a separate list would be a good idea) |
| 21:22 | Deb | I don't know that I'll be doing any more with organizing the Koha or Kudos users groups |
| 21:23 | rickw | rach: there are online meetings to organise as well. [Koha] has wokred fine in the past for online orgs |
| 21:23 | JoRansom | and it should be clearly identified as such. |
| 21:23 | gmcharlt | Deb: please don't get discouraged, though |
| 21:24 | rach | yep that's true, which is what I was trying to clarify on list :-) |
| 21:24 | JoRansom | its alays easier to throw stones than stand on the box! |
| 21:24 | Deb | I'm not discouraged. sniff sniff |
| 21:25 | joransom don't understand your comment | |
| 21:25 | apologies all around. My brain is starting to numb. | |
| 21:25 | gmcharlt | for one thing, I think it is really great that so many people have shown up today to talk (and dodge stones ;) ) |
| 21:25 | rickw | box == soapbox |
| 21:25 | Deb | it's all slef's fault. |
| 21:25 | JoRansom | can we summarize anything from this meeting? Things we have identifed that need following up on, that we have agreed on etc? |
| 21:25 | rickw | i take it that KUDOS at the moment does little more than organise meetings?!?! |
| 21:25 | Deb | Yes. 1. Use the Koha list to continue this discussion |
| 21:26 | rosalie | yes |
| 21:26 | Deb | 2. Do you want a Koha User Group with 2 sections: user group and coop |
| 21:26 | JoRansom | 3. Clarify what KUDOS is : is it USA only / Lblime only / supplementary to koha list? |
| 21:26 | V | I have to sign off. Will there be any way for me to get info on continuation? |
| 21:27 | Deb | v if you tell us who you are? Or if you're on the koha listserv, right? |
| 21:27 | V | I mean find out what transpires after I sign off? |
| 21:27 | slef | cm: is it OK with you if I add the kudos feed to the Koha Community Blogs page? |
| 21:27 | rosalie | 4. what are the aims of the Koha Users group? |
| 21:27 | V | Sorry, I'm Vera. |
| 21:27 | cm | sure slef, fine with me. |
| 21:27 | custard | v: there's a log of the channel. |
| 21:28 | Deb | rosalie I think that has yet to be determined |
| 21:28 | rach | http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl |
| 21:28 | JoRansom | sure , so another thing we have yet to rsolve. |
| 21:28 | Deb | Is there anything any of you would like me to do? |
| 21:28 | 5. slef will be an admin on Facebook Koha Users Group group | |
| 21:29 | JoRansom | 6. if we decide we want to use facebook. |
| 21:29 | (I thought there was a pretty unanimouis thumbs down ..?) | |
| 21:29 | Deb | facebook is already there, has members. |
| 21:29 | V | Thanks, custard and rach. |
| 21:29 | JoRansom | ok |
| 21:29 | slef | There's three links at the bottom of http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl with moreinfo about kohala just now. |
| 21:29 | Deb | You can continue talking about facebook on the listserv |
| 21:30 | rosalie | Can we ask the Facebook members to join the Koha list? |
| 21:30 | Deb | Do you want to have another virtual meeting? |
| 21:30 | fbcit | hehe |
| 21:30 | V | Facebook has members, but we'd rather not use it. |
| 21:30 | Deb | yes rosalie we can. |
| 21:30 | JoRansom | I think so. Maybe a slightly more formal agenda perhaps to struture our discussion? |
| 21:30 | custard | There is a saying "Cats are people too" :) |
| 21:30 | gmcharlt | Deb: yeah, IRC is often this -- agree with JoRansom that an agenda helps |
| 21:30 | slef | Deb: you have to ask people to shut up on here i fyou want. They can't see the facilitator waving or looking at someone else. |
| 21:31 | Deb | i have cats!!!! |
| 21:31 | custard | so do I. And they're being quite vocal about breakfast at the moment. |
| 21:31 | V | Deb, yes, us! |
| 21:31 | irma | My interest is spending time on how I can serve the library users better... |
| 21:32 | Deb | irma what do you mean by 'users? |
| 21:32 | V | Thank you, irma. |
| 21:32 | rosalie | Gotta go. Talk to yu on the Koha list |
| 21:32 | Deb | v what are you saying yes to? |
| 21:32 | irma | There are so many new Web 2.0 technologies out there, a community to discuss how to addd them to Koha would be great |
| 21:32 | slef | Deb: we are your cats, according to V |
| 21:32 | V | We're your cats. :-) |
| 21:32 | JoRansom | irma: good. |
| 21:32 | Deb | oh gottcha. |
| 21:32 | JoRansom | so discussing future developments? enhancements? wish lists? |
| 21:32 | irma | users: library patrons, members, staff... |
| 21:33 | Deb | irma there's a great web 2.0 blog thing I'll send it to you |
| 21:33 | JoRansom | brianstorming of what could b e with koha? |
| 21:33 | Deb | joransom sounds great! |
| 21:33 | JoRansom | developers lifting the general ideas up to a plan for implementation. |
| 21:33 | a bunch of us pitching to fund it coz we think its good. | |
| 21:34 | irma | exactly! |
| 21:34 | Deb | yes joransom! That'd be great. |
| 21:34 | JoRansom | that is what I would love to see. |
| 21:34 | Deb | Do you feel we need to go beyond the typical module ILS and expand into |
| 21:34 | things that are more google-like? | |
| 21:34 | JoRansom | developers and librarians working together to enhance koha, and a bunch of us funding the work to the development companies |
| 21:34 | irma | Librarians can be very isolated and yet have patrons with advanced requests to satisfy! |
| 21:35 | rach | just so you know, people on facebook are directed back to the mailing list |
| 21:35 | Deb | Yes irma! |
| 21:35 | JoRansom | I like Irma. |
| 21:35 | Deb | The mailing list they're directed back to is the Kudos mailing list, not the koha mailing list. |
| 21:35 | I don't know if I can add two. | |
| 21:35 | JoRansom | it nneds to be the koha list |
| 21:36 | Deb | ok |
| 21:36 | rach | http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6381238597 |
| 21:36 | is the facebook group I'm looking at | |
| 21:36 | JoRansom | which is different to the kudos one? |
| 21:36 | custard | so at the momment, were still sounding the scope of kudos, yes/no? |
| 21:36 | randym | rach: this the facebook they are talking about http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6719777668 |
| 21:37 | slef | Best place to discuss Koha is the Koha Mailing List |
| 21:37 | 2 posts by 2 people. Updated on Nov 21, 2007 at 4:06 | |
| 21:37 | Deb | That's not the one. |
| 21:37 | It's this one http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6719777668 | |
| 21:38 | rach | http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6719777668 |
| 21:38 | Deb | it's the koha users group |
| 21:38 | JoRansom | I'm off: faceboiok sounds a confusing mess already! |
| 21:39 | Deb | only for developers. |
| 21:39 | irma | is there an established IRC # KUDOS? So instread of going to #koha to ask about Library Thing (for example) I would see if anyone in on the #KUDOS channel? |
| 21:39 | instread = instead | |
| 21:39 | Deb | no there's no IRC channel for KUDOS. |
| 21:40 | irma | I see. |
| 21:40 | Deb | The #koha channel said this channel was available for this meeting. |
| 21:40 | rach | but it is easy to set up |
| 21:40 | Deb | I thought of setting up an IRC for KUDOS but the responses were to use this channel. |
| 21:40 | irma | sure but people can leave the #koha channel and go talk in another room anytime |
| 21:40 | slef | it's easy to set up forums... the hard part is finding the right one |
| 21:41 | Deb | And the developers on this channel at that time agreed. |
| 21:41 | rach | if you type /join #kudos now, you'll join a kudos channel |
| 21:41 | Deb | if I do that will I still come back here? |
| 21:41 | rach | this channel is good because it's logged, and we've got the automatic helper things on the website to get people to it |
| 21:42 | slef | Depends on your IRC software. It might just open a new tab and you can flip between them. |
| 21:42 | rach | you can have multiple channels running at the same time |
| 21:42 | irma | what about the log of both channels? Can they be linked and available to all? |
| 21:42 | Deb | Yes, the developers said it was not an inconvenience. |
| 21:42 | If they need another channel they would make one. | |
| 21:42 | rach | it's not, they would all want to watch the meeting anyway, so it's no problem to have this here |
| 21:42 | Deb | I believe it was atz and gmcharlt who said this. |
| 21:42 | rach | yep |
| 21:43 | irma | rach: what about the logs? |
| 21:43 | Deb | why do they want to watch and not participate? |
| 21:43 | rach | only # koha is automatically logged, if a #kudos was going to be useful then loggin would need to be done |
| 21:43 | irma | can the log of the KUDOS be like an attachment to the log of #KOHA? |
| 21:43 | rach | perhaps if they felt there was anything they needed to say they would jump in |
| 21:44 | Deb | Yes, I looked into creating a KUDOS channel on freenode. |
| 21:44 | oh. | |
| 21:44 | custard | because sometimes people set meetings up that will be at 5 in the morning, and most people wouldn't get up for that. that's why you might want to log it. |
| 21:44 | rach | irma: no they would be 2 seperate logs |
| 21:44 | the logs don't "finish" they just keep rolling by :-) | |
| 21:45 | irma | Rach: thank you and in my opinion it is best to then only have one channel and one log: the #KOHA. |
| 21:45 | rach | or they have work/meetings etc that they need to be at |
| 21:45 | Deb | ok |
| 21:45 | irma | I must say cheers and thank you. All the best. A bientot! |
| 21:46 | Deb | You all have been wonderful today. |
| 21:46 | Thank you all. I will share this with John and Joshua. | |
| 21:46 | V | Glad to be here and "meet" one and all. |
| 21:46 | custard | thanks, for this it's been interesting. |
| 21:46 | Deb | Hope I talk with all of you again! |
| 21:46 | mouk | bye bye! |
| 21:46 | custard | Deb: Thanks, for orgasing. |
| 21:46 | Deb | Toodles! |
| 21:46 | V | Bye. |
| 21:46 | custard | organising. |
| 21:46 | Deb | no problem |
| 21:46 | mouk | orgasing? |
| 21:46 | gmcharlt | Deb++ |
| 21:47 | Deb | thanks gmcharlt |
| 21:47 | custard | poot. was hoping to ask irma something. |
| 21:47 | Deb | woot! |
| 21:47 | custard you can get irma via email or the list you know | |
| 21:47 | Well, I'm off. Thanks all. | |
| 21:47 | custard | true. |
| 21:48 | slef | mouk: stop thinking that. |
| 21:48 | mouk | haha |
| 21:48 | Deb | slef you are too fast for me |
| 21:48 | I didn't catch that at all until you said something | |
| 21:48 | mouk | well, it's later in the evening here ;) |
| 21:49 | slef | mouk: that doesn't mean you *have* to watch D:SF |
| 21:49 | mouk | haha |
| 21:49 | Deb | slef you'rein the UK right? |
| 21:49 | custard | ok, so i got caught between wanting to finish a line and wanting to stat another... |
| 21:49 | slef | Deb: yes. |
| 21:50 | Deb | where in the UK? |
| 21:50 | custard | right I'm going to catch a kip before "waking up" for the rest of the day. |
| 21:50 | Deb | I nearly called you this morning and realized I had no idea what time it was there. |
| 21:50 | slef | Deb: Somerset, England. |
| 21:50 | Deb | ohhhh |
| 21:51 | pretty | |
| 21:51 | slef | Deb: the other side of the channel from Cardiff (I can see it) |
| 21:51 | (well, except with all the fog at this time of year) | |
| 21:51 | Deb | I study english lit, poetry, etc. |
| 21:51 | and a ton of other stuff too | |
| 21:52 | well I better go. | |
| 21:52 | slef I'll email you the facebook info ok? | |
| 21:52 | slef | I'm from near Oxford, so naturally I detest poetry and butcher the language often ;-) |
| 21:52 | Deb: OK... or spot me in the group members list now. | |
| 21:53 | rickw | thanks to all ... gotta return to meatspace |
| 21:53 | Deb | I'll find you slef and thanks. |
| 21:53 | gotta jet! | |
| 21:53 | slef | nice place. Much warmer than Cambridge. thanks. bye |
| 21:54 | chris | wow .. well that was ... something |
| 21:55 | mouk | refill wine glass, here :) |
| 22:02 | chris | dressing the kid |
| 22:10 | back | |
| 22:13 | CGI821 | quit |
| 22:14 | custard | yes something indeed. |
| 22:24 | chris | i notice a message on the koha lists, someone is trying to start a kenyan user group, i think regional/national (like john brice was saying about kudos) is the best way to start |
| 22:24 | rach | yes i think that being able to meet in person (or at least feel like you could :-) is really valuable |
| 22:26 | gmcharlt | yeah, and in the states ALA and PLA conferences provide a good excuse for that sort of thing |
| 22:26 | rach | and you might actually do things - but you need some critical mass I guess, is harder if you're the only one in your region who is using koha |
| 22:26 | chris | *nod* |
| 22:26 | rach | has the call for an organised koha users group come from koha users? |
| 22:27 | chris | it was originally a call for a US users group |
| 22:27 | and came from john brice, who is a user | |
| 22:27 | but it kinda morphed into this all things for all people | |
| 22:28 | which will never happen :) | |
| 22:28 | rach | yeah that won't work |
| 22:29 | chris | theres no reason that once its up and running and working well, it couldnt expand .. or that some agreement between say kohala (the french group) and kudos and the kenyans and whoever else |
| 22:29 | couldnt be worked out and that would be the beginnings of a koha foundation | |
| 22:29 | rach | interesting thought that it's for a developers as well |
| 22:29 | oh and are you still going to nepal? or has that fallen trhough? | |
| 22:29 | chris | fallen through |
| 22:30 | 3rd week of work at the new job and all | |
| 22:30 | rach | ah right |
| 22:30 | chris | plus i have henry's wedding in march too |
| 22:30 | custard | could it could function as an umbrella group? |
| 22:30 | rach | they must be gutted, anyone else going to be able to take your place? |
| 22:30 | chris | custard: potentially in the future .. once it had proved itself a bit :) |
| 22:31 | rach: i suggested a couple of the india koha users | |
| 22:31 | they have been running koha training sessions in india .. lot closer :-) | |
| 22:32 | gmcharlt | rach: I hope it remians for both users and developers -- ideally, at least some of the libraries would be funding or hiring their own programmers |
| 22:33 | rach | developers as distinct from vendors? or both |
| 22:33 | Rosa | that's an intersting distinction, rach |
| 22:33 | gmcharlt | rach: I hope both |
| 22:37 | understood; in my opinion I hope that KUDOS (if constituted as a US users group) stays focused on Koha and/or library open source and libre software | |
| 22:37 | and not any particular vendor or set of programmers | |
| 22:37 | jo | I agree. |
| 22:37 | really important. | |
| 22:38 | and if not then it sis clear in identifying itself as a liblime-koha users group. | |
| 22:39 | gmcharlt | jo: agreed |
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