katipo?koha-fr.orgkatipo with added ytpos← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:27 | slef | kados: should do. Got a shop and some admin to get out of the way first. |
| 13:52 | hdl | kados: Does zebra 2.0.12 require changes in koha.xml structure ? |
| 14:03 | rch: Does zebra 2.0.12 require changes in koha.xml structure ? | |
| 14:17 | going out | |
| 15:36 | cm | hey kados, did you get my email about itemnotes? |
| 08:55 | hdl | kados Good morning |
| 09:02 | slef | hi all. paul: is it OK if I resend your koha-infos news mail to kohakatipo? |
| 09:11 | what's abouti? | |
| 09:12 | kados | hi hdl |
| 09:13 | hdl | hi |
| 09:13 | dewey | what's up, hdl |
| 09:13 | hdl | how are you ? |
| 09:13 | slef | hdl: comment traduire "abouti" en anglais? |
| 09:13 | hdl | finalized ? |
| 09:14 | slef | close enough for me :) |
| 09:14 | hdl | dewey had a basic translator. But I cannot remember how it worked. |
| 09:14 | dewey | hdl: what? |
| 09:15 | slef | dewey: translate abouti |
| 09:15 | dewey | slef: sorry... |
| 09:15 | slef | dewey: translate bonjour from french to english |
| 09:15 | dewey | slef: what? |
| 09:15 | slef | dewey: help translate |
| 09:15 | hdl | dewey: translate aboutir into english |
| 09:15 | dewey | hdl: i'm not following you... |
| 09:15 | slef | translator isn't in the help listing |
| 09:15 | I guess the plugin isn't loaded atm | |
| 09:16 | hdl | kados : Do you use zebra 2.0.12 ? |
| 09:16 | It doesnot read my koha.xml file. | |
| 09:16 | :( | |
| 09:16 | kados | hmmm |
| 09:16 | I think I had to change bib1.att | |
| 09:16 | iirc | |
| 09:17 | there was a line about rank that wasn't allowed anymore | |
| 09:17 | hdl | 11:34:42-21/03 [log] zebra_start 2.0.12 /home/koha/Code/savannah/koha-2.3/etc/koha_head.xml |
| 09:17 | 11:34:42-21/03 [warn] The following setting is unrecognized: <server | |
| 09:17 | 11:34:42-21/03 [warn] The following setting is unrecognized: <serverinfo | |
| 09:17 | kados | what error are you getting? |
| 09:17 | hmmm | |
| 09:17 | strange | |
| 09:18 | I haven't seen that error before | |
| 09:18 | have you written to the zebralist asking about it? | |
| 09:18 | hdl | neither do I. |
| 09:18 | I wrote to support yesterday. | |
| 09:18 | And tlaked about that without sending logs. | |
| 09:19 | Is there a channel to talk to them ? | |
| 09:19 | kados | nope |
| 09:19 | bbiab | |
| 09:25 | slef | hdl: abouti = polished, (context is user interface) perhaps? |
| 09:27 | hdl | slef: I trust you. abouti has the understatement both handy, user friendly, coherent, complete, nothing else has to be done. |
| 09:31 | slef | mailbomb mailbomb I'm a mailbomb |
| 09:37 | paul | kados : let me know when you're back |
| 09:46 | slef | paul: hope that's OK... |
| 09:46 | biab | |
| 09:56 | kados | paul: back |
| 09:56 | paul | did you see & understood my mail on infoskoha-fr.org |
| 09:56 | (hello 1st ;-) ) | |
| 09:57 | kados | (hi :-)) |
| 09:57 | paul | I'm asking french libraries to know their opinion on : |
| 09:58 | 1- koha 3.0 should be released ASAP, whatever the beauty of the internals & GUY | |
| 09:58 | 2- koha can be delayed for, say around 3 months, but not too much more | |
| 09:58 | 3- Koha 3.0 can be delayed until it's "perfect" | |
| 09:59 | owen | paul, define perfect? How is 'perfect' different from option 1 and 2? |
| 10:00 | paul | I don't use the word "perfect" in my mail. |
| 10:00 | I explain what you propose to do : | |
| 10:00 | kados | paul: from my perspective, 3.0 is far from ready for release unfortunately |
| 10:00 | paul: many many bugs :-) | |
| 10:00 | paul | 1- fix bugs |
| 10:00 | 2- finish code cleaning | |
| 10:00 | 3- adopt YUI. | |
| 10:00 | kados | right |
| 10:00 | paul | 1 not being a question => we won't release until it's stable |
| 10:00 | kados | yep |
| 10:01 | paul | 2 & 3 being the core of the question in fact... |
| 10:01 | kados | and 1 is the biggest issue right now IMO |
| 10:01 | paul: but unless you have resources to finish 1 we will have quite a hard time trying to finish it soon | |
| 10:02 | paul | I know. I can devote some time for bugfixing. not that much, but a real amount. |
| 10:03 | kados | hmmm |
| 10:04 | paul: have you gotten responses to your question? | |
| 10:04 | paul | which one ? |
| 10:04 | dewey | which one is that? :-) |
| 10:05 | paul | (question) |
| 10:05 | use of <p> ? | |
| 10:05 | kados | the question to koha-infos about preferences |
| 10:05 | js | i vote 3 |
| 10:05 | kados | ie, which state the code should be in to be released |
| 10:05 | paul | not yet. Only 2 answers, my mail is just 3 hours old... |
| 10:05 | kados | js++ |
| 10:05 | ok | |
| 10:05 | js | hi all |
| 10:06 | paul | about the use of <p> : the thread was quite long on usenet. |
| 10:06 | kados | hehe |
| 10:06 | differing opinions? | |
| 10:06 | paul | it seems it's really a flamewar subject... |
| 10:06 | kados | did anyone agree with me ? :-) |
| 10:06 | paul | basically : |
| 10:06 | kados | hehe |
| 10:06 | paul | - HTML is NOT semantic, don't spend too much time on trying to do it |
| 10:07 | kados | ahh, but we use XHTML ;-) |
| 10:07 | paul | - why would <div><p>...</p></div> be less valid than <div><div>...</div></div> |
| 10:07 | - validator.w3c accept that without any problem | |
| 10:08 | (although I agree w3c don't have a semantic approach) | |
| 10:08 | kados | you can't have <p><p><p></p></p></p> ... |
| 10:08 | paul | at the end, nobody saying you're right. nobody saying you're wrong. |
| 10:08 | kados | so if someone writes <p></p> and later I want to put something else inside that <p> |
| 10:08 | paul | someone even saying : do what you want and don't care of your partner ;-) |
| 10:08 | kados | I have to replace it with <div> |
| 10:08 | hehe | |
| 10:09 | so I always prefer to start with <div> so it never needs to be re-written | |
| 10:09 | paul | why would you need nested <p> ? |
| 10:09 | (if you have a sample) | |
| 10:09 | kados | sure |
| 10:09 | so for YUI, it's necessary to break up the page into sections | |
| 10:10 | 'logical' sections | |
| 10:10 | <div id="doc"> | |
| 10:10 | 10 <div id="hd"><!-- header --></div> | |
| 10:10 | 11 <div id="bd"><!-- body --></div> | |
| 10:10 | 12 <div id="ft"><!-- footer --></div> | |
| 10:10 | 13</div> | |
| 10:10 | inside of header there are different types of content | |
| 10:11 | paul | so i've strictly nothing against <div id="hd"> |
| 10:11 | kados | and inside of the body, you want to be able to specify how many logical sections there are in the page |
| 10:11 | paul | in fact, prog templates are somewhat like that atm |
| 10:11 | kados | so inside 'hd' you have: |
| 10:11 | <div id="bd"> | |
| 10:11 | 3 <div id="yui-main"> | |
| 10:11 | 4 <div class="yui-b"></div> | |
| 10:11 | 5 </div> | |
| 10:11 | 6 <div class="yui-b"></div> | |
| 10:11 | </div> | |
| 10:12 | oops, I meant inside of 'bd' :-) | |
| 10:12 | this means that there are two logical 'blocks' in the body | |
| 10:13 | paul | for me, a <p> is the lowest logical block. |
| 10:13 | so, div in your samples are what I would write. | |
| 10:13 | (and what is in npl/prog, -mistakes excepted-) | |
| 10:16 | owen | I agree with kados, for the most part. <p> should really be reserved for blocks of text. |
| 10:16 | paul | hi owen. |
| 10:16 | we agree on this. | |
| 10:16 | but the question is : | |
| 10:16 | <p>surname : Paul</p> | |
| 10:16 | is that or not a "block of text". | |
| 10:16 | kados | that's a definition list :-) |
| 10:17 | owen | It depends on how you're presenting the information |
| 10:17 | kados | owen++ :-) |
| 10:17 | paul | that was proposed by someone on usenet too, and has be violently smashed by someone ! |
| 10:17 | (although it seems to be someone smashing easily) | |
| 10:18 | kados | paul: what was their smashing argument? |
| 10:18 | was it a good one? :-) | |
| 10:18 | owen | A lot of people feel strongly and strictly about <dl> too. |
| 10:18 | paul | no arg. Just "it's silly". the king of definitive arg that I really like ;-) |
| 10:18 | kados | hehe |
| 10:19 | paul | again : i'm not geek enough at html to argue. I want to understand. If <dl> is agrred, i've no problem with it. |
| 10:20 | kados | <dl><dt>Surname:</dt><dd>Paul</dd></dl> |
| 10:20 | that gives you a lot of flexibility in how to present that data | |
| 10:21 | <p>Surname: Paul</p> doesn't give you much | |
| 10:21 | paul | that's why I used <label> |
| 10:21 | (and now I understand it was wrong) | |
| 10:21 | kados | so IMO if we need the flexibility, lets do it semantically |
| 10:22 | paul | you're descriptive & persuasive today ;-) |
| 10:22 | kados | becayse maybe you only need <p><label>Surname</label> Paul</p> |
| 10:22 | paul | about answers to my mail : I've got the SANOP one by phone (I spoke of it almost 1 hour with Jerome Pouchol) |
| 10:22 | kados | but what if I need to make Paul something special :-) |
| 10:22 | I need the <dd> part most likely | |
| 10:23 | paul | i'll write a mail about our conversation later. But he's unhappy with that, although not upset (correct words. not 100% sure)? |
| 10:24 | kados | paul: he's unhappy about what? |
| 10:24 | paul | it's main question was "how do we take such decisions in Koha community" |
| 10:24 | kados | right |
| 10:24 | it's a reasonable question | |
| 10:24 | paul | sure. |
| 10:25 | kados | LibLibe? :-) |
| 10:25 | hehe | |
| 10:25 | that's a new one | |
| 10:25 | slef | paul: we take decisions by trying to build a consensus, but if it's irreconcilable, he who does wins |
| 10:25 | kados: ytpo ticy? | |
| 10:25 | kados | hehe |
| 10:27 | slef | kados: sorry about that. Sometimes names are harder to copy - I usually copy-paste them, but I guess I thought LibLime was simple enough to retype |
| 10:27 | should be s/manage/manager/ too damnit | |
| 10:27 | paul | kados: ??? |
| 10:27 | (LibLibe ?) | |
| 10:28 | slef | paul: I've forwarded your email to kohakatipo with added ytpos |
| 10:28 | apparently | |
| 10:29 | paul | ok, understood |
| 10:30 | kados | as a community we need to decide how to move forward with decision making |
| 10:30 | because what we've been doing for the past 7 years isn't working efficiently | |
| 10:31 | slef | here it comes, Koha Social Contract |
| 10:31 | owen | ?? |
| 10:31 | kados | for example, memberentry changes made by san-op upset the US libraries I've mentioned them to |
| 10:32 | slef | Who's kaitiki(sp?) now? Rach? |
| 10:32 | kados | in theory it's still rach |
| 10:32 | but she hasn't really done anything in years | |
| 10:32 | :-) | |
| 10:33 | paul | right. |
| 10:33 | and here, we are back to our problem of being a very small community... | |
| 10:34 | kados | so here is my answer to san-op |
| 10:34 | they can't have everything they want: | |
| 10:34 | 1. a super cheap ILS | |
| 10:34 | 2. a well organized community | |
| 10:36 | if they want #1 they must invest some money :-) | |
| 10:36 | people need to eat | |
| 10:38 | paul | that's also why kohala (french association) is being founded |
| 10:38 | to move to 2 by having some funding to support the community | |
| 10:38 | (1 paper was missing, it has delayed the official agreement from gov) | |
| 10:39 | kados | hehe |
| 10:39 | paul | even if the agreement don't mean money. It just mean kohala can ask for money ;-) |
| 10:40 | owen | Paul, if your libraries in France are impatient for 3.0 and don't mind a few bugs, why don't you install a pre-release version for them? |
| 10:40 | paul | because I'm really against having 2 branches "dev_paul" & "head" as we have "dev_week" and "rel_2_2" |
| 10:41 | (+ I'm not sure i've enough strengths to support it) | |
| 10:41 | kados | what do you mean (not enougg strength) |
| 10:41 | paul | frenchism, right... |
| 10:41 | s/strengths/ressources/ | |
| 10:42 | kados | what do you mean by that? |
| 10:42 | you don't have resources to support Koha 3.0? | |
| 10:42 | paul | - support 2.2 |
| 10:42 | - support dev_paul | |
| 10:42 | - prepare official 3.0 | |
| 10:42 | no, I definetly don't have enough ressources... | |
| 10:42 | + i'm against it from a community pov | |
| 10:43 | kados | IMO if your customers are banging down the door for you to release 3.0 they should be willing to pay you to work out the remaining bugs :-) |
| 10:43 | owen | paul, my question wasn't about an additional official release, just an install from the latest CVS |
| 10:43 | kados | it's not fair to you to be expected to release something while worrying about where to get your next meal for a (growing!) family :-) |
| 10:43 | paul | owen : moving prog to YUI means a lot of changes on templates. I think they won't appreciate having 2 differents GUI parts |
| 10:44 | kados: ++ for saying "ok for 3.0 now, but give me money ;-)" | |
| 10:44 | owen | Maybe so. In that case I guess they'll have to wait. |
| 10:44 | kados | some projects hold the release to ransom |
| 10:45 | ie, we can do X, Y, Z, but only if you fork over $ABC | |
| 10:45 | paul | hehe... I don't think i'm fine with ransom |
| 10:46 | slef | has YUI been summarised to koha-devel or a blog? I think Paul's news was the first I saw of it. |
| 10:46 | (bah, got to recompile gimp - so I can talk for a bit :-/ ) | |
| 10:47 | paul | slef : it's something kados spoke yesterday on irc... |
| 10:51 | - I ain't payin', so I ain't expectin' much. | |
| 10:51 | kados | bbiab |
| 10:51 | paul | - It wouldn't be right to demand more of you all. |
| 10:51 | owen | Yes, but other customers /are/ paying! :) |
| 10:52 | paul | they are paying for 2.2 install and 2.2 support |
| 10:52 | (at least for me/hdl) | |
| 10:52 | slef | owen: I want more of that sort! |
| 10:53 | owen | slef, don't you have the UK market cornered? :) |
| 10:54 | slef | owen: not completely and it's damned conservative |
| 10:54 | hdl | but french ppl pov is : |
| 10:55 | I dont awanna pay much | |
| 10:55 | But sitill want to have NEC+++. | |
| 10:55 | :DDD | |
| 10:55 | slef | owen: apparently talis is built on the ashes of a cooperative, so our offer of community and cooperation isn't as attractive as it could be to the big libraries. |
| 10:56 | owen: smaller libraries moving over mostly don't have much money AFAICT; larger libraries moving over have enough IT staff or understanding to try DIY. | |
| 10:57 | owen: and then there has been one library looking at moving across that I turned away because they're into genetics but won't tell me what they do; but enough of my problems here... | |
| 10:58 | owen | We wouldn't want Koha used for ~~eeevil~~~!!! |
| 10:59 | slef | I don't mind whether it is or not, but I won't work for evil people. I'll go back to warehouse work or fruit-picking before that. |
| 11:00 | I find the whole gene-patenting idea a bit evil because I'm chronically ill. | |
| 11:00 | anyyyyyyway | |
| 11:00 | hdl++ | |
| 11:01 | some will pay for install, I'm not sure they're paying enough (slight loss-leader to break into the market) and few will pay for development | |
| 11:01 | is that the same for liblime? | |
| 11:06 | cm | morning all... kados, did you see the email i sent you this morning? any thoughts? |
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