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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:16 | kados | sorry ... booth is getting busy |
| 12:17 | well I tried out the acqui system this morning | |
| 12:17 | I attempted to create an order | |
| 12:17 | and to recieve | |
| 12:17 | and it just didn't work :) | |
| 12:17 | let me bring up the test | |
| 12:18 | ok | |
| 12:18 | so first off ... the 'created by' doesn't work | |
| 12:18 | I think, at least according to the directions, in order to create a basket, you hav to enter a name | |
| 12:18 | which should show up in 'created by' | |
| 12:19 | when I recieve | |
| 12:19 | it generates a receipt | |
| 12:19 | but it doesn't have the 'recieved by' or 'date' | |
| 12:19 | and it says '0 bibliographic records recieved) | |
| 12:19 | and doesn't show up in the order history | |
| 12:20 | (I always get '0 orders foudn') | |
| 12:41 | owen: is that enough or do you need more details? | |
| 12:42 | owen | So first you created a supplier, then you created a new basket for that supplier... |
| 12:42 | I know that several items are blank on the "New Shopping Basket for..." page (basket.pl) | |
| 12:46 | ...but that's the same with the default templates as well | |
| 12:48 | kados | owen: maybe we need to file a 'blocker' bug report to get paul's attention |
| 12:49 | owen | But what's the next stage where you see a problem? |
| 13:18 | thd | kados: are you there? |
| 13:36 | kados | thd: intermittently |
| 13:36 | thd | kados: how have you observations of other systems been going? |
| 13:38 | kados | thd: the only thing sirsidynix has is 'rooms' |
| 13:38 | thd: which is just a way to organize subjects togther | |
| 13:38 | thd: with a fancy name :-) | |
| 13:38 | thd: nobody else seems to be doing anything new, they're mainly selling old technology | |
| 13:38 | thd | kados: Koha has far and away the best record editor and will have the best search system. |
| 13:38 | kados | yep |
| 13:39 | thd | kados: However, there is one thing other systems might have for record editing |
| 13:39 | kados: see if you can find anyone doing anything interesting with adding or managing holdings information for records. | |
| 13:40 | kados: especially serials, and built in automated cuttering. | |
| 13:42 | kados: there is a bug in the 008 plugin but I will tell you about that later. | |
| 13:46 | kados: I know other big systems are very unlikely to have interesting record editors except possibly for the issue of holdings. So look at what people may be doing with holdings. | |
| 13:49 | kados: Interesting holdings management probably does not use the record editor interface on other systems, as other systems would lack a general plugin model but with a special holdings interface other systems might have something.. | |
| 13:50 | tumer | hi everybody |
| 13:50 | thd | hellos tumer is that really you? |
| 13:50 | tumer | yes live and kicking |
| 13:50 | thd | tumer: If you read the logs you may note that Kados has fixed the record editor. |
| 13:51 | tumer | i did not see any commits ??? |
| 13:51 | is kados around? | |
| 13:52 | thd | tumer: unfortunately, pauls fixes had not been well tested and reverted to some old problems along with new ones. |
| 13:52 | tumer: kados is here but he is busy with the ALA convention so that he has not had time to commit | |
| 13:52 | tumer | i realized that i am staying with the old editor anyway |
| 13:53 | thd | tumer: the old editor is safer, the new one has hidden bugs waiting to bite |
| 13:55 | tumer: I am editing records on a client system for kados and have seen no real problems except for a bug in the 008 plugin. | |
| 13:55 | tumer | thd: the authorities does not fill the multiple subfields either |
| 13:56 | thd | tumer: there has been no work on the authorities record editor |
| 13:56 | tumer | ie. the 150x authority may have multiple x's but only one gets transfred to the marc record in edittor |
| 13:57 | thd | tumer: kados was going to fix the authorities editor after everything was working in the bibliographic record editor. |
| 13:58 | tumer | the bug in 008? what dowes it do |
| 13:58 | thd | tumer: the authorities record editor has very large bugs that will eat authorities records. |
| 13:59 | tumer: you probably have 2 bugs in your 008 plugin | |
| 13:59 | tumer | i dont use it anyway |
| 14:00 | thd | tumer: the older bug would forget the type of date in some circumstances |
| 14:02 | tumer: the older bug is fixed in head but one that I have just noticed loses the date of record creation if blank and shifts all positions six places to the left | |
| 14:03 | tumer | very bad indeed |
| 14:04 | thd | tumer: 008 is a fixed field so if the places are shifted the field is invalid but it is very identifiable correctable in records in which it may have occurred |
| 14:07 | tumer: if the first position in an 008 is not digit either no record creation date information was encoded or the record has been affected by this bug. | |
| 14:08 | s/record/008/ | |
| 14:23 | kados | hi guys |
| 14:23 | hey tumer | |
| 14:23 | tumer | hi kados |
| 14:23 | kados | I'm in and out today ... ALA conference |
| 14:24 | tumer: did you manage to get M::F::X working for you? | |
| 14:24 | tumer | which day are you free? |
| 14:24 | kados | I can make some time in a few hours |
| 14:24 | if you need to chat | |
| 14:24 | evenings are pretty good | |
| 14:24 | otherwise, I don't get back until the 28th | |
| 14:25 | tumer | probably have to problems with MFX persisssssst |
| 14:26 | kados | bummer |
| 14:26 | so ... | |
| 14:26 | tumer | i am modifying everything very deeply so we may as well discuss at one point |
| 14:26 | kados | 1. you're using libxml2 and XML::LibXML (versions that don't conflict, you ready the XML::LibXML README?) |
| 14:27 | 2. you are working with true UTF-8 records with utf-8 encoding (not just claiming to be utf8) | |
| 14:27 | ? | |
| 14:27 | tumer | most of editor problems problems appear with MFX and nothing else |
| 14:27 | kados: i use correct versions | |
| 14:27 | the problem is non conflicting versions are very old | |
| 14:28 | its almost impossible for me to go that back with libxml2 | |
| 14:28 | otherwise everything else may break down on the server including zebra | |
| 14:29 | kados | unless you are using explicitally 'compatible' versions of the two, as specified in the README, I'm sure you're going to have problems |
| 14:29 | can't you do some tests on your laptop? | |
| 14:29 | tumer | i have tried every combination of compatibles |
| 14:30 | converting to and back from MARC8 to UTF8 works very well | |
| 14:30 | kados | so where do the problems come in? |
| 14:31 | tumer | but perl decides to show unencoded characters on the screen ie in templates |
| 14:32 | kados | hmmm |
| 14:32 | tumer | anything coming from keyboard or in the template gets mingled while anything from db or zebra is correct |
| 14:32 | kados | is that the only bug? |
| 14:32 | can you send me some example records so I can test on my system? | |
| 14:32 | ones that you're having probs with? | |
| 14:32 | tumer | i'll put some on my server |
| 14:32 | kados | thx |
| 14:33 | ping me with the url when they're there | |
| 14:33 | tumer | ok |
| 14:34 | the other problem is characters stay combined when converted from MARC8 | |
| 14:35 | they display correctly but i cannot find them in zebra | |
| 14:35 | my keyboard does not produce combined chars is that the problem? | |
| 14:37 | thd | tumer: your keyboard will not produce the correct characters unle4ss you have a UTF -8 environment |
| 14:38 | tumer | thd:not exactly |
| 14:38 | the problem is having 2 different definitions for chars in utf8 | |
| 14:39 | thd | tumer: MS Windows is never a UTF-8 environment as far as I know but some language sets for character creation or special applications may output UTF-8 |
| 14:40 | tumer | ç is a utf8 character with an x00x00 (cant remember) hex code in utf8 |
| 14:40 | thd | tumer: do you mean there a multiple Unicode encodings for the same Turkish character? |
| 14:40 | tumer | the same character is also c and a cedilla combined together |
| 14:41 | they look exactly the same | |
| 14:41 | but to delete the last one you have to hit backspace twice | |
| 14:42 | this is how windows is behaving | |
| 14:42 | so in utf8 we have precomposed and uncomposed characters | |
| 14:42 | thd | tumer: I do not know the case of Turkish but I have read that Unicode does have multiple encodings for some characters in some languages. |
| 14:43 | tumer | this is the same for all acented characters Turkish or not |
| 14:43 | thd | tumer: what does precomposed and uncomposed mean? |
| 14:44 | tumer | i dont even know whether the terminology is right either |
| 14:45 | i read about this problem at indexdata YAZ logs | |
| 14:45 | thd | tumer: Is that where the terminology is from? |
| 14:45 | tumer | and now i have the same problem |
| 14:45 | yes there i saw this terminology | |
| 14:47 | thd | tumer: I think I will have to Google now for precomposed and uncomposed to understand the problem that you are expressing |
| 14:58 | tumer: I know the familiar concept that precomposed means now but I had not seen the terminology with enough frequency | |
| 14:58 | tumer: I have not found a definition for uncomposed | |
| 14:59 | tumer: how do you mean uncomposed? | |
| 15:01 | tumer | thd: there is no terminology as uncomposed i used it for reverese of precomposed. meaning not combined together |
| 15:02 | kados | tumer: re-indexing with your records now |
| 15:02 | tumer: it'll be a few minutes | |
| 15:03 | tumer: I'll let you know as soon as it's done | |
| 15:03 | thd | tumer: uncomposed is in a Unicode paper but the server with the paper is not responding |
| 15:03 | tumer | if characters come out right search the words with those chars |
| 15:05 | thd | tumer: precomposed characters are characters used to combine two or more standard characters to create a special character. |
| 15:08 | tumer: MARC-8 use and other ISO library character encodings use precomposition for most Latin languages with an ASCII character and an ASCII modifier to form an accented Latin character. | |
| 15:09 | tumer | thd: yes i know and MFX converts them and keeps them like that on my machine |
| 15:10 | thd | tumer: Do you mean that after M::F::X conversion they are the same? |
| 15:10 | tumer | by the way it may be normal. But i need a routine to combine them to thair single character form in utf8 |
| 15:11 | thd:no they are converted correctly to utf8 precomposed format | |
| 15:11 | thd i need to compse them | |
| 15:12 | thd | tumer: Is your problem only about searching or also how the characters are encoded in the records? |
| 15:12 | s/searching/composing characters for searching/ | |
| 15:12 | tumer | about searching |
| 15:13 | thd | tumer: so your records are fine then? |
| 15:14 | tumer | thd: they look fine but not the same to what i can produce with the marc editor |
| 15:14 | http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords | |
| 15:15 | thd:try these http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords | |
| 15:15 | they are from LC | |
| 15:15 | thd | tumer: composing characters for searching will require a layer of code to process the input from whatever the user has input into the search form and convert the input from whatever it starts as to UTF-8. |
| 15:16 | tumer: composing characters for the record editor is another problem. | |
| 15:16 | tumer | thd:is this correct for everybody or for windows people i wonder |
| 15:17 | thd | tumer: if you are attempting to create characters for the record editor that may be a problem for MS-Windows unless there is some way in the latest version to switch to UTF-8 mode. |
| 15:20 | tumer: Maybe it is merely more complex to test the input encoding for the record editor. | |
| 15:20 | tumer: Newly created records would be an easier case where the input encoding could well be tested. | |
| 15:21 | tumer | thd:i have to attend the server - be back |
| 15:44 | kados | tumer[A]: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ |
| 15:44 | dewey | hmmm... http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ is working now wher do i look |
| 15:44 | kados | tumer[A]: give it a try |
| 15:45 | tumer[A] | ok |
| 15:47 | tumer | kados:http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ is not available |
| 15:47 | points to some local IP | |
| 15:48 | chris | http://66.213.78.100/ how bout that then tumer? |
| 15:49 | tumer | hi chris |
| 15:50 | searhing in simple mode crashes | |
| 15:50 | searching in power does not find it | |
| 19:08 | thd | kados: what happened with tumer's record searching problem? |
| 02:05 | btoumi | hi all |
| 02:16 | Strait | morning :) |
| 02:18 | btoumi | hi strait |
| 02:18 | :paul are u around | |
| 02:18 | ? | |
| 02:18 | paul | yep. hello everybody |
| 02:18 | btoumi | hi :paul |
| 02:20 | hdl | hello |
| 02:23 | ToinS | salut tous ! |
| 02:23 | btoumi | do u remember last time i ask u for a field (null or not) i have the same problem title,phone and i do the same |
| 02:23 | salut toins | |
| 02:23 | paul | btoumi: yep. |
| 02:23 | btoumi | is it ok? |
| 02:24 | ok thanks | |
| 02:26 | btoumi_away | i commit updatabase today |
| 02:33 | paul | plein de francais ce matin ... |
| 02:33 | osmoze | hello |
| 03:28 | Strait | bugger |
| 03:29 | Z39.50 broke down :( | |
| 03:29 | doesn't work with my translated templates | |
| 03:32 | hmm, it doesn't work properly with english npl templates either | |
| 03:32 | with default templates it works | |
| 03:34 | paul | then you should bug owen. |
| 03:34 | (hello Strait | |
| 03:34 | ) | |
| 03:35 | Strait | hi paul :) |
| 03:36 | owen? | |
| 03:36 | dewey | somebody said owen was hardly ever in direct contact with kados. We communicate here. |
| 03:36 | paul | owen is the npl templates designer |
| 03:36 | Strait | there are some other bugs in them too |
| 03:37 | i've managed to fix some of them | |
| 03:37 | but some of them beat me | |
| 03:55 | where can i reach this owen person? | |
| 03:55 | it would be nice to talk to him | |
| 03:55 | and i have some fixes for his templates too, like i said | |
| 03:56 | paul | Strait: owen is from US, and usually appears on the chanel in US morning |
| 03:56 | (you're from finland isn't it ?) | |
| 04:04 | Strait | yep |
| 04:04 | so it's in the middle of the night for me :D | |
| 04:04 | or something | |
| 04:04 | dewey | rumour has it something is not recognising the value actually in the leader |
| 04:04 | paul | so owen should arrive in 6/7 hours |
| 04:05 | kidding dewey ;-D | |
| 04:05 | Strait | ah, ok |
| 04:05 | that's not the middle of the night then | |
| 04:05 | paul | not really. owen & kados are in Ohio, so east US |
| 04:06 | Strait | ok, i'll try to meet him later then |
| 04:06 | i could use the default templates for now since z39.50 works in them | |
| 04:07 | the problem is that it's next to impossible to fit finnish words in them | |
| 04:07 | although finnish versions do exist | |
| 04:08 | they speak very bad finnish ;) | |
| 04:57 | Rachel | it's busy today in #koha |
| 04:57 | paul | hi Rachel |
| 04:59 | rach | hi paul, are you all recovered from the conference? |
| 04:59 | paul | you mean the devWeek ? |
| 04:59 | of, fortunatly ! | |
| 04:59 | my main concern atm, is my personal move (next saturday) | |
| 04:59 | rach | yes |
| 04:59 | are you moving house? | |
| 05:01 | paul | yep |
| 05:01 | from marseille to marseille. | |
| 05:01 | but from 80m2 to 120m2 | |
| 05:02 | rach | wow you have 3 boys don't you? I bet you'll appreciate the extra room :-) |
| 05:03 | osmoze | paul, au fait, les videos sont dispo quelque part ? |
| 05:03 | de la kohaconf | |
| 05:04 | paul | osmoze: ask rach ! |
| 05:04 | osmoze | rach, is it possible to download the kohaconf video ? |
| 05:05 | rach | yes I would think so |
| 05:05 | chris | ? |
| 05:05 | i dont think so yet | |
| 05:05 | osmoze | hi chris :) |
| 05:05 | chris | russ hasnt converted it |
| 05:06 | its still on the dvd's as far as i know, i can hurry him up for ya | |
| 05:06 | hi osmoze :) | |
| 05:06 | rach | sorry osmoze I misinterpreted that |
| 05:07 | osmoze | it's nothing rach :) it's my bad english ^^ |
| 05:07 | rach | ah no, I had about 3 hrs sleep last night and i'm not wearing my glasses :-) |
| 05:07 | osmoze | chris, if he want, after my hollidays, i can do the conversion |
| 05:08 | lol, that why i don't have children at this moment :) | |
| 05:08 | chris | ahh cool, ill tell him that |
| 05:08 | osmoze | ok, i ll be back on 20th july |
| 05:08 | paul | chris: remember we have long holidays in France ;-) |
| 05:09 | osmoze | long ? 2 week only ^^ |
| 05:09 | chris | :) |
| 05:09 | osmoze | so, go to lunch |
| 05:10 | rach | much better for you than eating a pie at your keyboard |
| 05:19 | have a good day | |
| 05:19 | paul | bye rach |
| 05:19 | chris | paul, will france beat spain? |
| 05:20 | paul | that's a good question... |
| 05:20 | I hope yes, of course. | |
| 05:20 | chris | brazil 3 - ghana 1 |
| 05:20 | france 2 - spain 1 | |
| 05:20 | paul | sounds ok to me ;-) |
| 05:20 | chris | :) |
| 06:29 | osmoze | france 1 - spain 1 |
| 06:29 | brazil 3 - ghana 0 | |
| 07:03 | btoumi_away | france 0 espagne 1 |
| 07:05 | osmoze | t es defaitiste btoumi |
| 07:08 | btoumi_away | non mais avec les match q'a fait la france je vois plus ca et en plus l'equipe d'espagne n'est pas mauvaise c pas le togo |
| 07:08 | paul | pour ma part, je ne ferai jamais de pronostic, c'est par trop imprévisible le foot ! |
| 07:08 | btoumi_away | c clair aussi |
| 07:08 | paul | btoumi_away: pas faux, mais en même temps, 1 but c'est si vite marqué ! |
| 07:09 | et puis vu l'arbitrage jusqu'à maintenant, ca introduit une incertitude supplémentaire ;-) | |
| 07:09 | btoumi_away | clair |
| 07:09 | c beaucopup plus stricte qu'avant c sur | |
| 07:09 | paul | + strict ? |
| 07:10 | btoumi_away | l'arbitrage |
| 07:10 | paul | je dirai surtout que c'est une vraie faillite l'arbitrage ! |
| 07:10 | cartons à gogo injustifiés, buts refusés, pénalties imaginaire | |
| 07:10 | btoumi_away | non mais y a des nouvelles regles |
| 07:10 | du coup pluie de carton jaune | |
| 07:11 | peut etre in peu trop a mon gout | |
| 07:13 | ToinS | vive l'arbritrage vidéo ! |
| 07:13 | btoumi_away | de ctoute facon je pense que la france sera pas en finale |
| 07:13 | ToinS | et même plus l'arbritrage informatisé.... |
| 07:13 | btoumi_away | et oui la video c bien mais platini veut pas |
| 07:14 | paul | oui, mais être élminé en 1/4 contre le brésil, ca la fout - mal qu'ne 8° contre l'espagne ! |
| 07:14 | btoumi_away | c juste un match de plus |
| 07:14 | ;=) | |
| 07:15 | en tous c toujours mieux qu'il y a quatre ans | |
| 07:20 | hi dewey | |
| 07:20 | dewey | niihau, btoumi_away |
| 07:22 | btoumi_away | niihau? |
| 07:23 | hdl | bonjour en japonais. |
| 07:24 | niihau mai. | |
| 07:27 | ToinS | dewey parle japonnais ? |
| 07:27 | dewey | toins: no idea |
| 08:11 | thd | tumer[A]: are you there? |
| 08:58 | slef | hi all. I've been told 'Library Trends' attributed koha to Australia. Anyone get that and/or anyone else want to correct it? |
| 10:05 | paul | hello owen. |
| 10:05 | I was speaking with Strait this morning. | |
| 10:05 | owen | Hi paul |
| 10:06 | paul | he finds some bugs in npl templates, and wanted to report them. |
| 10:06 | owen | Yes, I saw something in the logs yesterday |
| 10:06 | Is Strait here now? | |
| 10:06 | paul | i suggested to come here in our european afternoon |
| 10:06 | he should come back i think | |
| 10:08 | owen | paul, you didn't by any chance hear anything from kados about full acquisitions did you? |
| 10:08 | paul | no, I didn't |
| 10:08 | I just hear that he founded some problems, but I don't know which one | |
| 10:09 | kados | hi guys |
| 10:09 | paul: do you have a 'empty' rel_2_2 install? | |
| 10:10 | paul | hi kados. |
| 10:10 | kados | paul: try to create a vendor, and an order, and a basket |
| 10:10 | lots of information doesn't show up in the templates | |
| 10:10 | like who created it | |
| 10:10 | and when you try to recieve an order | |
| 10:10 | (/me wishes) | |
| 10:10 | paul | "booth babes" ??? |
| 10:11 | tumer | kados:have you indexed my records? your search does not find them |
| 10:12 | kados | tumer: they didn't index because they don't have 090 :-) |
| 10:12 | tumer: I need to write a script to add a 090 before I can index them | |
| 10:12 | paul: when you try to recieve an order, it won't recieve it | |
| 10:12 | tumer | they are straight from LC i'll add 090 for them |
| 10:13 | kados | paul: it never shows up in the order history |
| 10:13 | tumer: ok ... | |
| 10:13 | paul | ok, i'll investigate, but that will be after my move |
| 10:13 | kados | ok, no prob :-) |
| 10:15 | slef | I heard ALA has right-wing nutjobs defending the war in Iraq |
| 10:17 | kados | slef: you would have heard that :-) |
| 10:17 | slef: i haven't seen it :-) | |
| 10:18 | paul | a quick question to everybody reading the channel |
| 10:18 | tumer | kados:you mat have them at http://library.neu.edu.tr/testrecords |
| 10:18 | paul | i've been contacted by a computer paper ("programmation linux" = "linux programming"). They want me to write a paper, something like 20/25 pages. |
| 10:19 | it will be : | |
| 10:19 | - very poorly paid (25€/page) | |
| 10:19 | - forbidden to publish it on koha-fr.org website | |
| 10:19 | - to be done quickly. | |
| 10:19 | i answered that "quickly" was impossible due to my move. they agreed. | |
| 10:20 | osmoze | paul , write a paper about ? |
| 10:20 | paul | I answered that the licence was impossible for me, i want to publish it on koha-fr.org, even if it's 3 months after physical publication |
| 10:20 | oups... | |
| 10:20 | it's a paper about "how koha developpement is organised" | |
| 10:21 | (strategic & technically. From Release Manager to Perl coding lines) | |
| 10:21 | my question : do you think it's ! | |
| 10:21 | important or not to write in such papers ? | |
| 10:21 | i'm not sure. pierrick says "definetly yes" | |
| 10:21 | kados | tumer: zoomopac.liblime.com ... imported turkish stuff |
| 10:22 | paul: it would be in French? | |
| 10:22 | osmoze | forbidden to publish it on koha-fr.org website <-- it's not really open ^^ and don't follow idea of koha community |
| 10:22 | paul | yep. |
| 10:22 | kados | paul: and available online? |
| 10:22 | paul | I don't think so |
| 10:22 | kados | paul: I think they _must_ license it under creative commons or something similar |
| 10:22 | paul: otherwise, it doesn't make sense | |
| 10:22 | paul | until 3 months after physical publication, where I could publish it myself |
| 10:23 | that's what I think too. | |
| 10:23 | but it seems it's not what they do usually | |
| 10:23 | kados | tumer: the characters seem to be OK on my system ... do they look OK to you? |
| 10:25 | tumer | kados: the problem persists and this paul should see too. I'll explain |
| 10:25 | paul | what could I see tumer ? |
| 10:26 | tumer | kados:the characters displays correctly |
| 10:26 | paul | note to everybody : ToinS started working on koha head to do 1 month of code cleaning. We have updated the wiki (coding guidelines & added a page about code cleaning) |
| 10:26 | tumer | try to search for örneklerle which displays corerctly |
| 10:26 | paul | feel free to make some suggestions |
| 10:27 | tumer | you will not find it |
| 10:27 | because the character ö is not one character but 2 | |
| 10:28 | also if you copy and paste it in your search on the screen it turns into funny characters | |
| 10:29 | kados: can you see this record? | |
| 10:31 | paul:the problem is marc8 to utf8 conversion. I just remembered UniMARC does not use marc8, sorry | |
| 10:31 | paul | kados : a quick question about ToinS goals : do you think we should synch rel_2_2 and head before he start working on code cleaning ? |
| 10:32 | I think yes | |
| 10:32 | and you also will have to synch dev_week & head, although he won't work on catalogue stuff until some weeks | |
| 10:33 | tumer | paul:dev_week biblio.pm is very differnt to head |
| 10:33 | paul | yes, I know, but we will have to synch them one day ! |
| 10:33 | tumer | paul:have to decide which to keep |
| 10:33 | paul | dev_week, definetly ! |
| 10:34 | thd | tumer: can you search your records successfully using terms with ASCII characters only or by copying text from a found record even if it looks odd?? |
| 10:34 | paul: 'booth babes' are attractive women intended to lure convention attendants to what is on offer at a particular booth. They are usually not a proper part of the sales team but merely an extra advertisement at the convention itself. | |
| 10:35 | tumer | thd:no i cannot. I have to copy the term from the record |
| 10:35 | search for yasa at zoomopac.liblime com | |
| 10:36 | thd | paul: papers published in recognised journals are important to establish credibility for Koha. |
| 10:36 | tumer | then try to search the record with the accented characters that you see |
| 10:37 | owen | kados: should a z3950 be working on 101? |
| 10:38 | tumer | owen:official port for Z39.50 is 212 and for zebra is 346 althogh you may use any free port |
| 10:39 | owen | Sorry tumer, by 101 I'm referring to the IP address of one of NPL's servers |
| 10:39 | tumer | oh sorry |
| 10:40 | owen:do you use much marc8 to utf8 conversion there? | |
| 10:40 | owen | No idea. |
| 10:42 | thd | tumer: so if it works when copying the text as displayed with the record then the problem is manageable |
| 10:42 | tumer | thd:no it does not help |
| 10:43 | do a search with term "yasa" and get this record. Copy any accented term and paste it into search | |
| 10:44 | thd | tumer: as I actually wrote many months ago in discussing this very issue in this same place we will need a layer of code to translate the encoding of queries from ISO-8859 to UTF-8 |
| 10:44 | tumer: when I copied an accented term it worked fine for me. | |
| 10:45 | tumer | thd:does the term display correctly on the search results? |
| 10:45 | thd | tumer: does it not work on your system. |
| 10:45 | tumer | where it says you searched for? |
| 10:46 | thd | tumer: no but the reason is font problem that I never fixed after spending a weekend exploring it. |
| 10:46 | tumer | its not a font problem. It destroys rest of my page which contains those characters as well |
| 10:47 | thd | tumer, owen: the fonts in all templates give priority for fonts which produce gibberish when confronted with accented characters in UTF-8. |
| 10:48 | kados | owen: not sure about 101 ... definitely on 100 port 9900 |
| 10:48 | tumer | thd:diplaying of utf8 characters IE is rated best and Firefox the worst |
| 10:48 | kados | tumer: I will try the search |
| 10:49 | thd | tumer: I experimented on my system and looked at most every common font set on my system to see what worked and what did not one weekend about three months ago. |
| 10:49 | kados | tumer: I can search for 'OÌrneklerle ' just fine |
| 10:49 | tumer: in safari browser | |
| 10:50 | tumer | kados: you can see it all fine so do i |
| 10:50 | copy that term and serach for it | |
| 10:50 | kados | i did ... it works fine for me in safari |
| 10:50 | and in firefox it seems | |
| 10:50 | tumer | look where it says you searched for |
| 10:50 | kados | ahh ... yes, I see now |
| 10:51 | I can tell you what's happening | |
| 10:51 | somewhere along the line | |
| 10:51 | perl is re-encoding utf8 as utf8 | |
| 10:51 | tumer | now when this happens all the other turkish caharacters on my tempklate turn to that |
| 10:51 | thd | tumer: I started to set up some changes to the CSS for the templates but I fell asleep after the first one and had too much work to do so I never committed any changes to the CSS for this problem. |
| 10:52 | tumer | kados:did you get that. Thats problem 1 |
| 10:52 | kados | tumer: yes, I get that one |
| 10:52 | tumer: and it should be simple to fix | |
| 10:52 | tumer: it's perl trying to do too much :-) | |
| 10:53 | tumer: there are other problems too? | |
| 10:53 | tumer | 2nd problem. try to delete any of the accented characters |
| 10:53 | kados | tumer: in the MARC editor? |
| 10:53 | thd | kados: so this is more than merely the font problem? |
| 10:53 | kados | thd: yes |
| 10:53 | tumer | you will notice that you need to backspace rather then one |
| 10:53 | kados | tumer: I don't have my zebra system adding/editing things yet |
| 10:54 | tumer: so I can't test that | |
| 10:54 | tumer | kados:copy the search term to search screen and test it there |
| 10:55 | thd | tumer: if you do not have clients with a UTF-8 environment for the record editor that is a more difficult problem. |
| 10:56 | tumer | kados:the second problem is more universal. Indexdata at one point decided to solve it |
| 10:57 | thd | tumer: Code to convert input from 8859 to UTF-8 may be addressed for the record editor but that would only work well for completely new and empty records. |
| 10:57 | tumer | currently i have written a composing scheme for the Turkish characters only which solves it |
| 10:57 | thd | tumer: how had Index Data proposed to address the second problem? |
| 10:58 | tumer | thd:one has to map all precomposed utf8 characters to there composed utf8 state |
| 11:00 | thd | tumer: however, with your composing scheme do the accented characters typed in an editing session appear as double characters before saving the record? |
| 11:00 | tumer | thd:no they all appear in their composed state |
| 11:03 | thd | tumer: Does the user have to enter precomposed characters according to a precomposition scheme that you have devised or just type normally as one would using any Turkish keyboard? |
| 11:04 | tumer | thd:any keyboard |
| 11:05 | thd | tumer: so where and how does your code run to implement that? |
| 11:05 | tumer | after I import records from LC |
| 11:06 | thd after marc8 to utf8 conversion you need this. and only then | |
| 11:07 | thd | tumer: but how is your code able to act between keyboard output and browser input? Have you rewritten the MS Windows keyboard driver? |
| 11:09 | tumer | thd:i am getting confused here.The problem is marc8 to utf8 conversion and what we andertand from conversion |
| 11:09 | thd | tumer: also, do you have the record editor refreshing on every character input to show characters in their composed state? |
| 11:10 | tumer | thd:there is a discussion about this in YAZ list talking about characters and LC |
| 11:10 | thd | tumer: I am referring to how you have described solving this problem for the record editor where the user does not have a UTF-8 environment. |
| 11:11 | tumer | thd:i do not. I expect the user to have UNIcode environment by the way which IE acts in |
| 11:12 | thd | tumer: how does your Turkish character composition system function so that the user can type in a non-UTF-8 environment and see an immediate display as if the environment were UTF-8. |
| 11:12 | ? | |
| 11:13 | tumer | any accented character from the keyboard in the browser is unicode and composed anyway. No problem there |
| 11:14 | any record we produce is utf8 with composed characters | |
| 11:14 | thd | tumer: So Internet explorer is doing the work for you? |
| 11:14 | tumer | yes IE is in UNICODE environment |
| 11:15 | thd | tumer: you merely set Internet explorer to UTF-8 and everything is perfect? |
| 11:16 | tumer[A] | thd:sorry yes verything is perfect in utf8 but perl |
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