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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 15:52 | chris | morning |
| 16:30 | kados | very well |
| 16:31 | chris | excellent |
| 16:31 | kados | we should sign with them within a couple weeks if the contract negitiation goes smoothly :-) |
| 16:31 | chris | all good |
| 16:31 | kados | they were very impressed with the search |
| 16:31 | so staying up till 5am paid off :-) | |
| 16:34 | chris | glad to hear it :-) |
| 16:38 | kados | the search is really getting there |
| 16:38 | I'm hoping to work a bit more on it this weekend | |
| 16:38 | then I need to tackle the adds/edits in zebra | |
| 16:38 | deletes too | |
| 16:38 | chris | right, thats the next tricky bit |
| 16:38 | kados | once I verify it's working, we can release 2.3.0 |
| 16:38 | chris | sweet |
| 16:39 | we'll have to do some work on the installer | |
| 16:39 | kados | yea ... on that ... |
| 16:39 | I can't really see a way around doing configuration manually | |
| 16:39 | especially for MARC21 vs UNIMARC | |
| 16:39 | chris | but once things are working we can do a tar ball |
| 16:39 | run the installer and work out what we can automate and what we have left to do manually | |
| 16:39 | kados | we almost need a UNIMARC template |
| 16:40 | because the attributes for, say, language search, will be different in a unimarc setup | |
| 16:40 | chris | right |
| 16:40 | kados | as unimarc's fields are in different places |
| 16:40 | chris | yep |
| 16:40 | kados | someone with unimarc clients will have to become a zebra expert :-) |
| 16:41 | though maybe we could get thd to map between the two | |
| 16:41 | he seems to have a handle on both | |
| 16:41 | thd | yes |
| 16:41 | kados | hey thd |
| 16:41 | chris | basically i think what we will end up having is sets of templates |
| 16:41 | kados | thd: have you tried the latest instantiation of the zoomopac? |
| 16:41 | thd | bad bad bad |
| 16:41 | chris | and sets of system preferences |
| 16:42 | that people chose from when they install, to give them a basis, and then tweak from there | |
| 16:42 | kados | yea |
| 16:42 | chris | we are getting quite a few templates |
| 16:42 | sorry system prefs | |
| 16:42 | thd | koha should be multi-MARC but that would break too many things for 3.0 |
| 16:42 | kados | thd: not necessarily |
| 16:43 | thd: no reason we can't be multi-MARC still | |
| 16:43 | it just means we need some UNIMARC person to become an expert on how to index zebra based on unimarc settings | |
| 16:43 | thd | kados: what I mean is that Koha could have a multiple MARC frameworks for multiple MARC flavours and store them all at the same time with conversions between them. |
| 16:44 | kados | that might work |
| 16:44 | but some things are incompatible | |
| 16:44 | like subjects | |
| 16:44 | and encodings | |
| 16:44 | chris | i dont see the point |
| 16:44 | but i might be missing something | |
| 16:44 | thd | kados: they are not incompatible but that is a secret |
| 16:44 | kados | ie, there's no way to properly store a non-MARC8 non-UTF8 encoded UNINMARC record |
| 16:45 | hehe | |
| 16:45 | anyway ... I'm far too tired to discuss MARC :-) | |
| 16:45 | chris | :) |
| 16:45 | kados | only got about two hours last night |
| 16:45 | so I'm gonna head out for a drink and turn in early | |
| 16:45 | thd | kados: my z39.50 client does ISO-5226 to UTF-8 conversion |
| 16:46 | kados | thd: ping me tomorrow about it, I am interested :-) |
| 16:46 | thd | s/5226/5426/ |
| 16:47 | kados: just look at it again. I discovered PHP ISO 2709 class written in French that provided that simple conversion | |
| 16:48 | kados: Of course Perl has MAB::Encode or whatever it is called | |
| 16:51 | good night kados | |
| 19:24 | mason | |
| 02:02 | paul | hello alaurin |
| 02:03 | alaurin | hi |
| 02:03 | dewey | privet, alaurin |
| 02:07 | paul | hi pierrick |
| 02:08 | pierrick | hi paul |
| 02:08 | btoumi | hi all |
| 02:08 | paul | et c'est à nouveau l'envahissement du canal par les français... |
| 02:17 | btoumi | bon ca va alors je m'en vais si on est trop en plus y a un match |
| 02:17 | lol | |
| 02:18 | paul | un match ? de quoi ? |
| 02:18 | à cette heure ? | |
| 02:33 | btoumi | non mais faut ce preparer lol |
| 02:55 | hi toins | |
| 02:55 | ToinS | salut btoumi |
| 02:56 | btoumi | toins:ca va bien |
| 02:56 | ? | |
| 02:56 | ToinS | très bien ! |
| 02:56 | et toi ? | |
| 02:56 | btoumi | cav bien |
| 06:02 | chris | hmmm |
| 06:03 | can i stay up till 3.30am to watch the football | |
| 06:03 | i think the answer is no | |
| 06:18 | Strait | yippee! it works :) |
| 06:18 | finally | |
| 06:19 | wasn't too easy though | |
| 06:19 | chris | ohhh you got it all installed? well done |
| 06:19 | Strait | yep |
| 06:20 | as a regular user without root access to mysql | |
| 06:20 | chris | sweet |
| 06:20 | Strait | i had to change the installer a bit |
| 06:21 | there could be an option "use already created database user... blah... blah... blah... in the installer" | |
| 06:22 | chris | yep, that could be done |
| 06:23 | Strait | that would only do mysql -u $user koha < koha.mysql -p |
| 06:23 | chris | yeah, then run the upgrade script |
| 06:23 | Strait | should be fairly easy to do also :) |
| 06:24 | chris | updatedatabase i mean |
| 06:24 | Strait | yep |
| 06:24 | chris | yep, just needs someone to do it :-) |
| 06:24 | Strait | i'm not a perl expert, but i could give it a go |
| 06:25 | it doesn't look too difficult | |
| 06:25 | chris | cool |
| 06:25 | we have to do some work on the installer over the next few days | |
| 06:25 | so ill take a look then too | |
| 06:26 | its a bit late in the night for my brain to work good tonight :) | |
| 06:26 | Strait | 14.26 here ;) |
| 06:26 | chris | 11.26pm friday here |
| 06:26 | Strait | but i'll have to create users and branches to koha |
| 06:27 | and set up issuing rules and all that | |
| 06:27 | chris | right |
| 06:27 | btoumi | hi all |
| 06:27 | chris | hiya bruno |
| 06:27 | Strait | i'll look into it next week |
| 06:27 | hello | |
| 06:27 | chris | cool thanks strait |
| 06:37 | btoumi | hi chris |
| 06:38 | hi strait | |
| 06:45 | chris | yep |
| 06:50 | night all | |
| 06:55 | Strait | good night |
| 08:04 | paul | kados around ? |
| 08:08 | kados | paul: yep |
| 08:08 | paul | about clonetag&subfield problem |
| 08:08 | it's not a html2marc problem | |
| 08:08 | kados | sure |
| 08:08 | paul | it's a html problem. |
| 08:09 | because I even don't get the values in the CGI | |
| 08:09 | I know. | |
| 08:09 | i'm copying npl templates to default. | |
| 08:09 | kados | but I do know that thd has done extensive testing on the npl version |
| 08:09 | paul | but I get a bug with authorities popup |
| 08:09 | kados | could be ... |
| 08:09 | paul | where is your openAuth function hidden ? |
| 08:09 | kados | you'd have to ask owen |
| 08:09 | I think it's in a seprate js file | |
| 08:10 | grep openAuth includes/ | |
| 08:10 | paul | mmm... strange, it's nowhere. |
| 08:10 | kados | hehe |
| 08:10 | maybe the problem :-) | |
| 08:10 | paul | do you use authorities with npl marc editor ? |
| 08:11 | kados | yes |
| 08:11 | paul | a link to a working marc editor pls ? |
| 08:11 | (npl one) | |
| 08:11 | kados | I noticed yesterday that the liblime demo is badly broken :-) |
| 08:11 | not the marc editor | |
| 08:11 | but the whole system :-) | |
| 08:36 | paul | kados / owen : don't bother to port default changes I made to handle mandatory fields/subfields to npl |
| 08:36 | I did it ;-) | |
| 08:36 | (hello owen) | |
| 08:36 | but I still can't understand why MARC editor works fine with NPL & not with default templates... | |
| 08:40 | ok, it works. I just have to tweak my css. | |
| 08:40 | I think there is a minor diff in <div>s, that I missed | |
| 08:40 | but that are important for cloning fields & subfields | |
| 08:41 | yes, it has to be cleaned, you're right... | |
| 08:42 | where are the styles defined in npl theme ? | |
| 08:45 | owen | intranet.css, colors.css, and maybe marc-editor.css I'm not sure if that last one is in use |
| 08:46 | paul | thx |
| 09:06 | kados | owen: got a sec? |
| 09:06 | owen | Yes |
| 09:07 | kados | owen: I'm wondering if you've been following the Mellon thread on koha list |
| 09:07 | owen | Not closely, but yes |
| 09:07 | kados | Brooke just responded to my post this morning |
| 09:08 | and I'm not sure she understands how the mellon works ... | |
| 09:08 | owen | I hadn't seen that one yet. |
| 09:08 | kados | but I could use another set of eyes to confirm my understanding |
| 09:10 | owen | I don't know about the Mellon rules, but I agree with your point of view that it would be better for a Foundation to manage the grant than a single company |
| 09:10 | kados | here are the rules: |
| 09:10 | they include: | |
| 09:10 | will recognize not-for-profit organizations that are making substantial contributions of their own resources toward the development of open source software and the fostering of collaborative communities to sustain open source development. | |
| 09:11 | here are the criteria for the organization: | |
| 09:11 | http://www.mellon.org/MellonGeneral.htm | |
| 09:11 | which includes "evidence of suitable classification by the Internal Revenue Service" | |
| 09:11 | I'm not sure a library fits the bill there, but it might | |
| 09:11 | if so, maybe NPL could be the recipient | |
| 09:11 | though I'm not sure you've got a staff member who could devote time to it | |
| 09:12 | paul | isn't owen a staff member :-D |
| 09:12 | owen | I'd be the only candidate, and I don't know the first thing about grant-writing (and don't really have the time for it) |
| 09:13 | paul | otherwise, i'm sure that ENSMP will be happy to spend time on this, if it is possible to have an NPO from outside of US |
| 09:13 | owen | I'd take the job if that was our only option |
| 09:13 | kados | cool |
| 09:13 | I think it's important for an employee of a non-profit to asnwer brooke | |
| 09:14 | so either ENSMP or Owen :-) | |
| 09:15 | owen | I can write something today expressing my point of view. Essentially: I like the foundation idea, and I don't think NPL has the resources to manage the grant |
| 09:16 | kados | right |
| 09:16 | brooke might not understand that there is no official organization that is 'koha' | |
| 09:16 | owen | In fact, it's the post-grant-writing part that I'd be most concerned about WRT NPL's involvement |
| 09:16 | kados | yea |
| 09:17 | this is why we need the non-profit | |
| 09:21 | owen | The tough job, however, will be getting everyone's participation in the Foundation |
| 09:22 | We'll need involvement from everyone in order to make the grant really effective | |
| 09:28 | kados | well ... |
| 09:28 | IMO, the foundation will basically just act as a funnel | |
| 09:28 | if we have some folks who are writing grants and specs for features | |
| 09:29 | and then asking for koha companies to submit bids to do the work | |
| 09:29 | I think it'll work quite well | |
| 09:29 | then, as the foundation begins to establish itself | |
| 09:29 | it can take on other roles | |
| 09:29 | maybe even project management eventually | |
| 09:29 | paul | ENSMP has many ideas for OPAC & wanted to fund them this year, so we could ask pascale. |
| 09:29 | kados | cool |
| 09:30 | owen | So the foundation receives the grant, and then parcels out money based on requests by Koha users? |
| 09:30 | kados | paul++ on the one tab! |
| 09:30 | owen: basically | |
| 09:31 | owen: as you well know, requests by Koha users don't really come in 'specification' format | |
| 09:31 | owen: so the foundation can parse those requests, and write them in software development terms | |
| 09:31 | paul | wow... kados reads mails very very quickly !!! |
| 09:31 | owen | But who is "the foundation" ? |
| 09:32 | Who's doing that writing? | |
| 09:33 | kados | owen: what we're doing ... is forming the organization |
| 09:33 | owen: once it's formed, LibLime will make a contribution (probably) | |
| 09:33 | owen: then the organization can hire a grant writer to write a given grant | |
| 09:34 | owen: once the process gets started, it will be easy to maintain I think | |
| 09:35 | owen | When I said we'd need involvement from everyone I was just thinking in terms of: How do make the foundation happen without the financial burden being on Liblime |
| 09:35 | kados | right |
| 09:35 | well ... there's another way the org can collect money | |
| 09:35 | say a bunch of libraries in Ohio want a given feature | |
| 09:36 | and they need a non-profit to represent them | |
| 09:36 | as a group | |
| 09:36 | owen | Sure, absolutely. |
| 09:37 | kados | but really, we're happy to contribute to the foundation, we can deduct it, and it's going to help foster the project as a whole |
| 09:39 | paul | the indenting owen, just the identing |
| 09:40 | almost everything on the same line, with loops & if & unless deeply nested | |
| 09:40 | i changes nothing at all. | |
| 09:41 | owen | Oh, in addbiblio.tmpl |
| 09:41 | paul | yep |
| 09:43 | hehe... pierrick is publishing pictures of the kohaCon on le-gall.net | |
| 09:44 | pierrick | http://le-gall.net/pierrick/ph[…]php?/category/310 |
| 09:52 | kados | owen: can you change the 'button' for browse to a 'checkbox'? |
| 09:52 | owen: and no need to have more than one | |
| 09:52 | i think | |
| 09:53 | owen | Oh, I see... just have the check box on the first one and they can chage the drop-down if they want to browse by something else. That makes sense |
| 09:53 | kados | yea |
| 09:56 | I can see expanding how this works in the future, but for right now, I'd just like to see it work period :-) | |
| 09:56 | and I wrote ID about the query validation question | |
| 09:56 | I think we could probably announce it to NPL staff on Monday | |
| 09:57 | as a 'beta' | |
| 09:57 | owen | I thought we might have Ken take a crack at it even before that. What do you think? |
| 09:58 | kados | definitely |
| 09:58 | owen | Oh, never mind. He's off on Monday and Tuesday. |
| 09:58 | He's working tomorrow, but I don't know if he'll have time for it | |
| 09:59 | johnb | Been away from my desk, just saw the conversation about Mellon. A few thoughts clarifications: |
| 10:00 | 1. Most libraries that are set up outside of government control our non-profit and our recognized by the IRS as 501c3's | |
| 10:01 | 2. The organization that receives the grant usually takes a percentage of the total grant as an administrative fee usually 5 to 10 percent | |
| 10:02 | 3. Administrating grants is usually not a full time position unless the grant is very large (7 figures plus) | |
| 10:03 | 4. There are individuals who can help write grants, or you can go to an organization with a proven track record | |
| 10:04 | kados | good points johnb |
| 10:04 | johnb: would CCFLS like to be the recipient? | |
| 10:04 | johnb: you'd have my blessing :-) | |
| 10:05 | johnb | 5. The important thing to remember about grants is that the grants are usually given to organizations that have a proven track record not necessarily the best written grant, |
| 10:05 | CCfls is always looking for funding through grants. | |
| 10:08 | We would be glad to help out in anyway | |
| 10:09 | paul | kados : is there a reason why cloneSubfield insert a subfield BEFORE the existing one ? |
| 10:09 | ppl usually enter most important values 1st, to a clone would be better AFTER imho | |
| 10:10 | kados | paul: there is a reason |
| 10:10 | paul: let me try to remember | |
| 10:10 | it has to do with how the '+' follows the subfield I believe | |
| 10:10 | paul | maybe because there is no "InsertAfter" and it has to be emulated & taht don't work ? |
| 10:10 | kados | yea |
| 10:10 | well ... | |
| 10:11 | currently, it will insert the value too | |
| 10:11 | so if you type: | |
| 10:11 | 200$aSome Author | |
| 10:11 | and you click on '+' | |
| 10:11 | you'll get: | |
| 10:11 | 200$aSome Author $aSome Author | |
| 10:11 | so all that's left is: | |
| 10:11 | delete the value from the original | |
| 10:11 | and it works exactly as you want :-) | |
| 10:12 | (if my memory serves me correctly, I haven't looked at the code in a while) | |
| 10:14 | btoumi | bye all good week end |
| 10:18 | osmoze | bon week end btoumi |
| 10:19 | btoumi | :osmoze de meme |
| 10:23 | paul | bye btoumi |
| 10:25 | btoumi | bye |
| 10:37 | kados | owen: browse working |
| 10:37 | owen: well ... not fully yet ... but first time it actually returned results :-) | |
| 10:37 | owen: doesn't distinguish between indexes yet either | |
| 10:37 | owen | I was just about to ask :) |
| 10:38 | kados | owen: I've got the cql query working even with invalid CQL |
| 10:39 | owen: I just basically test if it's valid, and if not, I pass it on enclosed in quotes | |
| 10:39 | I need users to tell me how good of a job it does | |
| 10:39 | owen | I would suggest 'and's instead of quotes I think. |
| 10:40 | kados | well ... |
| 10:40 | that gets really complicated | |
| 10:40 | because there might already be ands | |
| 10:40 | owen | right |
| 10:40 | kados | and adding more will not make it valid CQL |
| 10:40 | so you have to submit the query sometime :-) | |
| 10:40 | can't just keep adding ands and testing if it's valid :-) | |
| 10:42 | owen: so do you have a sec to talk about how browse should work? | |
| 10:42 | owen | Yeah, I think so |
| 10:43 | kados | do you like the way worldcat handles it? |
| 10:43 | how does spydus do it? | |
| 10:43 | worldcat has a completely separate search tab for it | |
| 10:44 | and they let you select an index | |
| 10:44 | then, depending on which index you selected, it'll do a keyword search on that index | |
| 10:44 | when you click on the term | |
| 10:45 | hey ... I just had an idea | |
| 10:45 | what if all it does, is turn on the 'livesearch' | |
| 10:45 | so you get a dropdown box with the index | |
| 10:46 | the livesearch is demoed here: | |
| 10:46 | http://labs.liblime.com/ | |
| 10:48 | owen | Actually, take a look at O.U.'s library search, and try an author or title search. |
| 10:48 | They do browse by default | |
| 10:49 | kados | that's not browsing the index |
| 10:49 | those are authorites records | |
| 10:49 | they seem similar | |
| 10:49 | owen | All I can tell you is how I think it should work :) |
| 10:49 | kados | but really are quite different |
| 10:50 | yea ... | |
| 10:50 | SMFPL is sponsoring that for Koha | |
| 10:50 | so it will work exactly as it does for OU | |
| 10:51 | this browse is specifically for the indexes in Zebra | |
| 10:51 | let me illustrate it | |
| 10:51 | try: | |
| 10:51 | 'The Handmaid's Tale" | |
| 10:52 | since by default, it's doing a browse of the 'word' indexes | |
| 10:52 | it'll only find things with 'the*" | |
| 10:52 | if we did a phrase browse | |
| 10:52 | it would pull from the 'phrase' index | |
| 10:53 | same with the number index | |
| 10:53 | etc. | |
| 10:54 | owen | keyword browse for 'The Handmai'd Tale' ? |
| 10:54 | paul | huray for ToinS ! |
| 10:54 | cloneTag & authority search problem solved ! | |
| 10:54 | (even if the DOM is sometimes strange... : | |
| 10:54 | kados | woot |
| 10:55 | paul | passing a "this" on a <a> means passing the href, and impossible to reach the parent, while passing this.parentNode works as expected |
| 10:55 | ) | |
| 10:55 | kados | owen: don't confuse 'indexes' with 'bib1 USE search points' |
| 10:56 | owen | I'm confused by your telling me not to be confused :) |
| 10:57 | kados | hehe |
| 10:57 | sorry, I'm multitasking | |
| 10:57 | didn't mean to sounds snippy | |
| 10:58 | ok ... back to single-tasking | |
| 10:58 | so ... | |
| 10:58 | zebra has indexes that it queries when it's searching | |
| 10:58 | it has one for 'words' one for 'phrases' one for 'numbers' one for 'URLs' | |
| 10:59 | all 'scan' does, is return values from the index | |
| 11:00 | does that make sense? | |
| 11:02 | owen | Yes...but I'm not sure that can be turned into a usable search given the examples you've shown me |
| 11:02 | The "keyword (count)" results examples seem non very user-friendly to me | |
| 11:12 | kados | I wonder if the worldcat ones are user friendly |
| 11:12 | right | |
| 11:13 | ok ... so if you do a keyword index browse | |
| 11:13 | for 'the handmaid' | |
| 11:13 | it works the same way as zebr | |
| 11:13 | zebra even | |
| 11:13 | but if you do a 'title phrase' | |
| 11:13 | it is more useful | |
| 11:18 | being able to scan an index is, I'm guessing, an advanced feature that mainly librarians and researches would find useful | |
| 11:18 | it's a way to validate whether a given term or phrase exists in the database | |
| 11:18 | and see words/terms nearby | |
| 11:19 | if it's ok with you, I'd like to implement it as another tab | |
| 11:19 | osmoze | bye all |
| 11:19 | kados | or ... at least as a separate form on the power search |
| 11:20 | bye osmoze | |
| 11:20 | thd | bye osmoze |
| 11:20 | kados | hey thd |
| 11:20 | thd | yes |
| 11:20 | kados | thd: I've got some time to talk today when you're ready :-) |
| 11:20 | owen | how did you do the title phrase search on worldcat? |
| 11:20 | kados | thd: did you see the new browse feature? |
| 11:20 | owen: click on the icon next to each field in the advanced search | |
| 11:21 | owen: then from the 'indexed in' dropdown select 'title phrase' | |
| 11:21 | thd | browsing is not real browsing if you start by searching but maybe I am also looking at the wrong URL |
| 11:21 | kados: what is the URL | |
| 11:21 | ? | |
| 11:21 | kados | thd: zoomopac.liblime.com |
| 11:21 | yea, it's not real browsing | |
| 11:21 | it's actually 'scanning' | |
| 11:22 | we should probably call it scanning | |
| 11:22 | 'scan index' or something | |
| 11:22 | thd: go to the advanced search | |
| 11:22 | thd: and click on the checkbox for 'browse' | |
| 11:24 | thd | kados: I have a could not be found error from zoompac.liblime.com |
| 11:24 | kados | hmmm |
| 11:24 | thd: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ | |
| 11:24 | thd: it should work, working for me | |
| 11:25 | thd | kados: I assume it is also working for owen? |
| 11:25 | kados | yea |
| 11:25 | :-) | |
| 11:26 | paul | ok guys, bye bye, see you on monday ! |
| 11:26 | paul_away | (do we have a meeting on monday ?) |
| 11:26 | thd | kados: maybe it has not propagated fully |
| 11:26 | kados | thd: you sure it's not misspelled in your browser window? |
| 11:26 | thd | good evening paul_away |
| 11:27 | kados: when is the next meeting? | |
| 11:27 | kados | thd: probably wednesday at 20:00 GMT |
| 11:28 | owen | thd: I've been using that zoomopac link for several days now |
| 11:29 | thd | kados: I have http://zoompac.liblime.com/ copied from my URL textbox. How is it misspelt? |
| 11:29 | kados | hehe |
| 11:29 | strange | |
| 11:29 | maybe your DNS is not working | |
| 11:29 | owen | http://zoomopac.liblime.com |
| 11:29 | zoom opac | |
| 11:30 | Not zoom pac | |
| 11:30 | kados | ahh |
| 11:30 | yea that's it :-) | |
| 11:33 | thd | owen: so if kados is gone for 10 minutes, tell me what advantage this 'browse' feature might have? |
| 11:34 | owen | I'm still waiting for kados to sell me on the idea. A browse search as I understand it is different from the kind of search he's offering with zebra |
| 11:34 | I understand a browse search as one that will let me see my search term in the context of a list of nearby search results | |
| 11:34 | thd | own: yes that was my point so perhaps the name should be modified. |
| 11:35 | owen | Were you able to try the browse search on zoomopac.liblime.com? |
| 11:37 | thd | owen: yes, Is this actually meant to return a brief identifier for selecting an actual term to use as the '...' search does in 2.2 now? |
| 11:38 | owen | That's the way it worked in the WorldCat search Joshua showed me |
| 11:38 | ...but I don't know what his plans are for our version. | |
| 11:40 | thd | owen: does WorldCat FirstSearch have a checkbox labelled browse? |
| 11:43 | ToinS | bye all !!!! |
| 11:43 | thd | goodbye ToinS |
| 11:54 | kados: are you back? |
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