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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 15:01 | kados | yay logbot! |
| 15:08 | lunch | |
| 17:55 | CaptPancakes | anyone here? |
| 18:10 | cool, I have a question about the install procedure | |
| 18:10 | kados | sure |
| 18:11 | CaptPancakes | here's my scenario... I'm running Clarkconnect Home 3.2, it's based on CentOS which isn't too different from Fedora |
| 18:11 | kados | gotcha |
| 18:11 | CaptPancakes | I'm not very familiar with Apache |
| 18:11 | I'm learning I should say =) | |
| 18:11 | kados | right |
| 18:11 | what version are you running? | |
| 18:12 | CaptPancakes | 2.0.52 |
| 18:12 | I've got all of my deps. in order. | |
| 18:13 | and I've untar'd and ran installer.pl | |
| 18:13 | kados | k |
| 18:14 | CaptPancakes | I mostly answered with the defaults, cause I'm just testing |
| 18:14 | now I'm to the part where I need to setup my httpd.conf file, I would assume | |
| 18:14 | I'm going by what documentation I can find | |
| 18:15 | anyways, I'm using the Hints file that came with the tar.gz. I'm using it strictly for a generic httpd.conf that will only run koha | |
| 18:15 | kados | huh |
| 18:15 | well if you run installer.pl it'll generate a koha-httpd.conf file for you | |
| 18:15 | CaptPancakes | okay |
| 18:15 | kados | it puts it in /etc by default |
| 18:15 | CaptPancakes | yes, it's there. |
| 18:15 | kados | use that as your guide |
| 18:16 | CaptPancakes | okay, I'll try it, instead... thanks |
| 18:16 | kados | np |
| 18:21 | CaptPancakes | my goodness... |
| 18:21 | that was much easier | |
| 18:22 | I was definately making it way to hard on myself, thanks kados | |
| 22:49 | thd | kados: I am back |
| 22:49 | not very awake but back :) | |
| 05:09 | kados | paul: back so soon? |
| 05:09 | paul | so soon ? |
| 05:09 | it's 9am in France. | |
| 05:09 | so yes, i'm back ! | |
| 05:10 | (& have seen ed & mike mails on perl4lib. I'll try to give cvs file:xml a try today) | |
| 05:10 | kados | hehe |
| 05:10 | great | |
| 05:10 | paul: I have made many many improvements on the editor while you slept | |
| 05:11 | paul | I've seen a commit, but not investigated it in fact |
| 05:11 | kados | no commit yet |
| 05:11 | I'm not quite finished | |
| 05:11 | here's what i added: | |
| 05:11 | * subfield repeatability | |
| 05:12 | * subfield reordering | |
| 05:12 | * hide indicators and subfield tags of fixed fields | |
| 05:12 | * add some nice formatting and proper 'tabs' | |
| 05:12 | * add a new systempreference for 'advancedMARCEditor' which allows professional cataloger to remove tag and subfield labels (off by default) | |
| 05:13 | paul | there will be no need for a new MARC editor soon ;-) |
| 05:13 | kados | * some special mouse cursor effects |
| 05:13 | heh | |
| 05:13 | paul | how do you handle subf repeatability? |
| 05:14 | kados | try it out |
| 05:14 | paul | what do you mean by "proper tabs" ? |
| 05:14 | kados | I sent you a link in pmesg |
| 05:14 | paul | yes, i'm on it, but can't see. |
| 05:14 | kados | ahh ... look for small + next to some subfields |
| 05:14 | like 015$a | |
| 05:14 | chris | are you still awake kados |
| 05:14 | paul | yes, very great ! |
| 05:14 | kados | chris: yea :-) |
| 05:15 | chris | cut down on the coffee man :-) |
| 05:15 | kados | hehe |
| 05:15 | paul | (yes chris, and he told me I was early on my keyboard !) |
| 05:15 | chris | hehe |
| 05:15 | kados | we're very close to having one of the top MARC editors on the planet :-) |
| 05:15 | paul | :-) |
| 05:15 | chris | :-) |
| 05:15 | kados | here's what I'm working on now |
| 05:15 | do you guys know about xisbn service from oclc? | |
| 05:15 | chris | nope |
| 05:16 | paul | what are the small "bz" just below the 010$a for example |
| 05:16 | no | |
| 05:16 | kados | paul: click on them |
| 05:16 | paul: this is the 'visibility' feature | |
| 05:16 | paul | ah, ok, now I see. |
| 05:16 | except it's so small that it's not easy to click on it ! | |
| 05:16 | kados | anyway, xisbn is a web service ... you send them an isbn and they send you back all the isbns of all the same items |
| 05:17 | chris | ahh right |
| 05:17 | kados | (so if the book had hardcover/softcover, etc.) |
| 05:17 | paul | same thing somewhere for a complete field ? |
| 05:17 | kados | paul: you mean hide a complete field? |
| 05:17 | paul | yep. For instance, the + submit the form ... |
| 05:17 | kados | paul: no because MARC framework does not have a 'hidden' for tags |
| 05:17 | maybe eventually we can convert + to the new method for tags too | |
| 05:18 | paul | I was speaking of the +, sorry : |
| 05:18 | kados | it might take some time |
| 05:18 | paul | for instance, the + submit the form, that's a lot of network & time |
| 05:18 | kados | yep |
| 05:18 | paul | do you plan to submit this on rel_2_2 or head ? |
| 05:18 | pierrick | hello :-) |
| 05:18 | paul | hi pierrick. |
| 05:18 | kados | paul: rel_2_2 if it's ok for you |
| 05:18 | paul: and head of course | |
| 05:19 | paul | yes, i'm 100000% ok ! |
| 05:19 | chris | :-) |
| 05:19 | kados | paul: it will be tested in a production system before I commit |
| 05:19 | paul | + I will improve a little bit the .pl, because many foreach nested are useless. |
| 05:19 | I think we can /10 the number of loops to do. | |
| 05:19 | kados | ok ... but be quite careful :-) |
| 05:20 | paul | (I wrote addbiblio when I was a beginner with MARC::Record, and made many stupid things) |
| 05:20 | I think i'll rewritte only on head, to avoid bugs. | |
| 05:20 | kados | good idea |
| 05:20 | chris | good idea |
| 05:20 | kados | heh |
| 05:20 | paul | kados won ! |
| 05:20 | (but same second ;-) ) | |
| 05:20 | what do you call "proper tabs" ? | |
| 05:21 | kados | ahh ... when the page loads |
| 05:21 | paul | advancedMARC editor is ON on antioch isn't it ? |
| 05:21 | kados | hit the 'tab' key |
| 05:21 | paul | the "waiting while page load" ? |
| 05:22 | kados | (yes it's on; the labels will show up if you roll over the tag or the subfield id |
| 05:22 | no ... after page loads | |
| 05:22 | hit 'tab' | |
| 05:22 | it will start at 000 and increment correctly | |
| 05:23 | ignoring subfieldids | |
| 05:23 | paul | ah, ok, that's great too ! |
| 05:23 | a suggestion for hidden tags : | |
| 05:23 | kados | sure |
| 05:23 | paul | if a tag is non mandatory (& has no values if it's a modif), we could hide all subfields by default. |
| 05:24 | we have those informations. | |
| 05:24 | kados | hmmm |
| 05:24 | I will think about this and discuss it with thd | |
| 05:25 | we have a fairly compex method for determining 'visibility' currently | |
| 05:25 | thd | paul I do not understand what you are asking immediately |
| 05:25 | paul | hi thd. |
| 05:25 | I mean : in framework, you can say : | |
| 05:25 | * 701 field is "NON mandatory". | |
| 05:25 | * it's in tab, say 5, with subfields $a, $x, $z. | |
| 05:26 | thd | hello I have been communicating outside of logbot because I was half asleep |
| 05:26 | kados | I'm not sure why tags are marked mandatory |
| 05:26 | paul | in UNIMARC, the 701 will be something like 20% filled. |
| 05:26 | because some are while some are not ! | |
| 05:26 | kados | why not just mark the subfields? |
| 05:26 | paul | when ADDING a biblio, we could have the tag 701, |
| 05:27 | but with all fields minimized by default | |
| 05:27 | kados | right |
| 05:27 | paul | in your sample, tab 2 |
| 05:27 | kados | we can do that now in fact |
| 05:27 | paul | the 210 is rarely filled I bet. |
| 05:27 | => takes a large part of the screen, 80% ofr the time for nothing ! | |
| 05:27 | kados | (BTW: only tab 0 is up-to-date ) |
| 05:28 | paul: we can already choose to do that based on the visibility flag ... but on the subfield level rather than the tag level | |
| 05:28 | paul | in tab 0, 024 is a good candidate too |
| 05:28 | thd | paul: it is a problem to minimise many subfields as the form quickly becomes too large for memory and the network |
| 05:29 | paul | thd : my idea is just to minimise the subfields that are here, so that's just a "visibility" property |
| 05:29 | should change nothing on network/memory. | |
| 05:29 | kados | paul: we already have that :-) |
| 05:29 | paul: but we specify at the level of subfield not tag | |
| 05:29 | thd | paul: I do understand well what you mean now I was merely trying to make something quick to tab through without a fast way to expand the collapsed subfields when needed. |
| 05:30 | kados | paul: or do you mean a function that expands all subfields at once? |
| 05:30 | paul | kados : ok, that's almost similar, I agree. |
| 05:30 | not necessary. | |
| 05:31 | thd | paul: as kados implements more keyboard friendly features in his JavaScript I would change the way the form is presented. |
| 05:33 | paul: my goal was the same as your idea but moving the mouse pointer to expand a collapsed subfield subfield takes too much time and I only retained a few collapsed ones to see what collapsed looks like. | |
| 05:33 | paul | ok thd. |
| 05:34 | thd | paul: also, current behaviour that needs to be changed actually hides filled content of the collapsed subfields included in the editor by default which is not good. |
| 05:35 | because you would have no way to know what had been filled or not without expanding. | |
| 05:36 | kados: we did this mostly in one night while I was half asleep and Kados had a customer starting in the morning. | |
| 05:36 | kados | heh ... yea :-) |
| 05:39 | thd | paul: so I was not happy about the constraint that imposed upon thinking well about the design but kados had more sleep than I and was able to think very well under the pressure for an interim solution to the problem that you cannot fit 3,600 subfields in a form and have a responsive system |
| 05:42 | paul | of course thd, that's why we will write a new system for 3.0 |
| 05:42 | that will provide en "empty" form, that the cataloguer will fill. | |
| 05:42 | I just try to find an idea to have the cleanest form as possible at the beginning of a new biblio. | |
| 05:42 | chris | just give them one textarea |
| 05:42 | and they can just type the marc in | |
| 05:42 | :-) | |
| 05:42 | paul | that's the idea chris, but with many help ;-) |
| 05:43 | (I wrote a paper about this a few months ago) | |
| 05:43 | thd | paul: even though his head hurt as I asked him to provide for all the possibilities he managed to extend hidden in a way that worked quite well except for the default that I was not awake enough to catch until just after he had gone to sleep that collapsing or minimising a subfield already in the form hides the content even if populated. |
| 05:44 | chris | paul |
| 05:44 | sounds very interesting | |
| 05:45 | thd | paul: please do not abandon the guided form based scheme my goal is to make the guided form based system as typing the codes into a text editor. |
| 05:46 | paul | I don't plan to abandon it : i'll have a student for 2 month (april/may) |
| 05:46 | his school validate the project, I can't change it ! | |
| 05:46 | chris | :) |
| 05:46 | thd | as fast as is missing above that is my goal speed parity with greater precision |
| 05:49 | chris | yay nz in the final |
| 05:50 | i have to stay up til midnight to watch it now | |
| 05:50 | thd | paul: I know that some cataloguers will never be happy unless they have nothing more than a text editor with a few extensions. Something will be needed to satisfy them but I think guided forms will be the future and everyone will eventually copy the Koha way if we do not separate the record editor so that it can be used with other systems as a stand alone disintegrated module. |
| 05:54 | paul: you had suggested an API for the record editor to do just that some months ago. | |
| 05:54 | paul | I just suggested a few things. |
| 05:54 | they have to be copmpleted, for sure | |
| 05:56 | thd | paul: I think that the guided record editor as a separate module would be a great way to expose more people to Koha even on other systems until they switch completely for full freedom. |
| 05:58 | paul: some people are afraid of being liberated all at once so one can liberate them by degrees with the best exportable features in Koha. | |
| 05:58 | s/features/modules/ | |
| 06:02 | paul | thd : I agree. |
| 06:02 | (do you ever sleep ?) | |
| 06:03 | thd | kados: with reference to our previous discussion of ISBNs we need to replace the ISBN validation which may be breaking multiple ISBNs and binding information with ISBN-13. All systems are supposed to have been ISBN 13 compliant since January. |
| 06:04 | paul: I was too tired to sleep well and then kados pinged me to show the wonderful new features and major bugfixes. | |
| 06:06 | paul: If I do not eat enough and am excited about something I can stay awake much too long :) | |
| 06:07 | paul: Although it is bad for productivity for the week as a whole. | |
| 06:08 | paul: The range of tasks that I can perform with little sleep is somewhat limited. | |
| 06:09 | kados seems to be able to code with no sleep. | |
| 06:10 | paul: I could not write good original code without being alert but I can still write useful regexes and plod through 3,600 subfields. | |
| 06:11 | paul: I will have to repay my sleep debt sometime in compensation. | |
| 06:17 | paul | hello jyl57 |
| 06:18 | thd | kados: I think the problem that I had identified with multiple ISBNs failing to appear in biblioitems.1SBN and having the binding abbreviation truncated may be be related to some ISBN validation code gone wrong but as I said I have not traced it. |
| 06:18 | jyl57 | Salut ! |
| 06:23 | pierrick | Hi jyl57 |
| 06:23 | jyl57 | Hi Pierrick |
| 06:24 | Welcome on board, koha's board I mean ! | |
| 06:24 | thd | kados: why do the later tabs look different from tab 0? |
| 06:26 | kados: later tabs seem to have characteristics of appearance and behaviour prior to your recent changes. | |
| 06:27 | chris | thd |
| 06:27 | 09:27PM|<kados> (BTW: only tab 0 is up-to-date ) | |
| 06:33 | thd | all better now |
| 06:41 | kados: If you expand a collapsed subfield the tab key skips it when tabbing through the adjacent subfields. | |
| 06:45 | kados | thd: can you fix 003 to not be mandatory please? |
| 06:45 | thd: I'll look into it | |
| 06:46 | thd | kados: I thought I fixed that once already :) |
| 06:46 | kados | thd: not unless I don't have the most recent data loaded |
| 06:46 | thd: also, did you ever finish the holdings? | |
| 06:47 | thd | kados: you have the most recent that I sent but I fixed it some time ago at the subfield level I think the field was also copied from 001 |
| 06:57 | kados | thd: expanded subfields aren't skipped now |
| 06:57 | thd | yaay |
| 06:58 | if only the collapsed in editor ones were expanded when filled :) | |
| 06:58 | hello si | |
| 06:59 | si | evening thd |
| 06:59 | kados | thd: that might be possible |
| 07:00 | thd: give me a sec | |
| 07:01 | thd | kados: not the ones that are not editor, those should stay collapsed unless manually opened |
| 07:01 | just the ones that are in editor and populated | |
| 07:07 | yaay labels are back :) | |
| 07:11 | the size for the repeated subfield plus could be a little larger as well as the size of collapsed subfield characters. | |
| 07:14 | kados: If the selection tool pointer brought up the label for the collapsed subfield over which it was hovering that might help distinguish them better at the small size or otherwise. | |
| 07:29 | hdl | I was riding to Chambery. for Two days training period. |
| 07:30 | chris | ahh |
| 07:30 | hdl | And I thought about Easy riders... |
| 07:30 | chris | :-) |
| 07:30 | hdl | smileglasses |
| 07:30 | hi all btw | |
| 07:32 | pierrick | hi hdl |
| 07:52 | kados | paul: I committed my modifs ... and they are tested on the liblime demo |
| 07:53 | paul: now I go to sleep :-) | |
| 07:53 | good night all | |
| 07:53 | paul | have sweet dreams. |
| 08:00 | pierrick | 'night America |
| 08:05 | paul | (kad os sleeping now) |
| 08:07 | pierrick | paul: seems he night was long... |
| 08:07 | paul | yep. |
| 08:07 | pierrick | s/he/the |
| 08:07 | paul | but usefull ! |
| 08:07 | pierrick | big commit as I can see |
| 08:08 | paul | yep. I will try it asap. |
| 08:08 | (but I saw the new features "live" : they are great !) | |
| 08:09 | pierrick | will your new employee be at Kohacon ? |
| 08:09 | paul | yep. but it's not an employee. |
| 08:09 | (stagiaire) | |
| 08:10 | time to go to lunch. read you later |
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