IRC log for #koha, 2006-03-15

← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
12:41	osmoze	hello
12:51	hdl	hello
12:57	pierrick	Hi
12:57		do we need to confirm the meeting is tonight ?
12:58		(I don't know if it occurs every monday)
12:58	paul	yep.
12:59		(we don't need to confirm as yes, it occurs every monday)
12:59		although usually joshua publish sometihng on koha-devel.
12:59	pierrick	OK, as I didn't anything from Joshua today...
13:07	kados	paul: I'm here now
13:07		yes, we should have a meeting tonight though I neglected to post a notice to koha-devel -- sorry about htat
13:07		that even
13:08		paul: have we confirmed the arrangements for the Koha Conference?
13:08	paul	which one ?
13:08	kados	paul: well, at least the dates?
13:08	paul	(also : hi)
13:08		yep, of course.
13:08	kados	(heh, hi to you also :-))
13:08		ok ... so I will purchase tickets and schedule my time
13:08	paul	2-3 may in Paris, then 8-14 in Marseille
13:09	kados	yep
13:09		I will probably fly into paris on April 24th or so
13:09	paul	i'll take care of a cheap hotel & inform you.
13:09	kados	then take the train to Geneva with Chris
13:09	paul	do you need to rent a car ?
13:09	kados	(he will join me there)
13:09		maybe, but IIRC public transportation is quite nice in EU :-0
13:10		last time I rented a car it was quite a pain
13:10	paul	you need to do US =>Paris => Geneva ? can't do US => Geneva ?
13:10		you're right.
13:10		i'll try to find an hotel in marseille center. and hdl + me will both have a car to reach the CMI (where the dev meeting will take place)
13:10	kados	US=>Geneva = $1,800 ; US=>Paris=>Geneva = $800 (with train included) :-)
13:11	paul	gloups !
13:11	kados	heh
13:11	paul	Paris => Marseille is easy to do by TGV (3 hours for 850km)
13:11	kados	($800 is round-trip also)
13:11		cool
13:11	paul	but not that cheap.
13:11	kados	's ok ... that's why we have a business right? :-)
13:12		so I will spend the last week of April between Geneva and Paris
13:13	paul	you should do Geneva => Lyon => Paris.
13:13	kados	meeting up with Regula as well in Switzerland (she is quite close to WIPO)
13:13	paul	and take 2 days to visit Lyon.
13:13	kados	is it in France?
13:13		yes I see from google :-)
13:13	paul	yep. 150km west from Geneva
13:14	kados	looks nice
13:14	paul	(it's the 2nd/3rd city in France. The question being : is Marseille 2nd or Lyon ? everybody in Marseille, think Lyon is 3rd :-D )
13:14	kados	owen: :-)
13:14	paul	hehe...
13:14	kados	so I can see the three best cities in one quick trip :-)
13:16	paul	right ! but it could be nice to make a small trip to Italy too.
13:17	pierrick	I made my studies in Lyon (the second city in France ;-) and it's quite nice
13:18	kados	paul: I've spent quite a lot of time in Italy
13:18		paul: several months in fact
13:18		paul: so less of a priority :-)
13:19		paul: in fact, I spent about a week in Paris several years ago
13:19		paul: but I was travelling with a bunch of Poles, not local French people who know where everything is :-)
13:20	paul	Poles ???
13:20	pierrick	see you later, I must go now
13:24	kados	paul: folks from Poland
13:24	paul	ah, ok
13:24		(do you speak polish ? because the librarian from CMI, that will host us in MArseille, is polish)
13:25	kados	only about 10 words :-)
13:33	Flash	Barcode question...
13:34	kados	sure
13:35	Flash	I'm getting the following error in the log when I try print barcodes...
13:35		[Mon Mar 13 09:35:02 2006] [error] [client 192.168.31.65] Can't locate
13:35		PDF/API2.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /srv/www/htdocs/apps/koha/intranet/modules
13:36		/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3
13:36		/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.​8.3/i586-linux-thread-multi
13:36		/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl
13:36		/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5​.8.3/i586-linux-thread-multi
13:36		/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at
13:36		/srv/www/htdocs/apps/koha/intranet/m​odules/C4/Barcodes/PrinterConfig.pm line
13:42	kados	Flash: yep, you need the older version of PDF::API2 to use the current barcode printing utility
14:12	Flash	Where do I get it?
14:20	kados	ahhh ... I'm not sure
14:20		I think if you do some googling you'll find some notes on exactly which version you'll need
14:20		as well as where to get it
14:20		however, all of this is mute
14:20	Flash	Why?
14:21	kados	because in about a week there will be a brand new barcode / spine label printing utility
14:21	Flash	I'll wait :)
14:21	kados	:-)
14:21	Flash	How will I know when it's available?
14:37	kados	Flash: we'll announce it on koha-devel
14:39	owen	kados: where's that coming from? I didn't hear about it.
14:40	kados	owen: one of LibLime's clients is sponsoring it
14:40		owen: SMFPL actually
14:40	owen	Cool.  Long overdue.
14:40	kados	yep
14:41	paul	another thing to add to 2.2.6 release notes ?
14:41		;-)
14:41	kados	if it makes it in time :-)
14:54		thd: you around?
14:54	thd	yes kados
14:56	kados	thd: in your opinion, are the MARC frameworks you're working on ready?
14:56		(ie, could they be used in a production system?)
14:58	thd	kados: except for correction of the too many under-used fields appearing in the record editor.
15:00	kados	thd: could you make it available to me?
15:00	thd	kados: I have only been preparing the uber bibliographic framework, although, others are minor derivatives
15:00	kados	right
15:01		I'm wondering what the best way to proceed with it is
15:01	thd	kados: I could after I get the SQL to parse, which I am doing now
15:01	kados	cool
15:01		thd: have you tried exporting / importing the bib framework before?
15:02	thd	kados: Unless you want it complete with SQL errors from the latest revisions :)
15:02	kados	heh
15:02		naw, go ahead and test it first :-)
15:04	thd	kados: For only the default bibliographic framework you need to dump only 2 tables.  marc_tag_structure and marc_subfield structure.
15:05	kados	I think our goal is to have default + trimmed-down itemtype/materialtype frameworks, right?
15:07	thd	kados: yes and uncommon elements hidden by JavaScript.
15:08		kados: I have not yet added extra columns to support more sophisticated hiding.
15:09	kados	paul: are you around?
15:09		paul: thd and I have discussed adding a new column to the biblio frameworks to support 'hiding' fields in the editor
15:09		paul: what is your opinion?
15:10	thd	kados: multiple columns
15:10	kados	thd: what do we need asside from a 'hidden' flag?
15:11	thd	kados: I have not yet tested hidden in the patron view by leaving the label blank.
15:12		kados: just now it is rather all or nothing.
15:12	kados	thd: I'm not sure it will even exist if you leave both intranet and opac labels blank
15:12		thd: could you try that real quick?
15:13		thd: that might be a 'quick and dirty' solution
15:13	thd	kados: intranet has to be there to create and edit the data.
15:13	kados	right ... too bad
15:14		wonder if we could label it 'hidden'
15:14		then set a flag with regex
15:14		(it's a lousy solution though :/)
15:15	thd	kados: there is a hidden but that hides it completely from editor and and patron
15:15	kados	hmmm
15:16	thd	kados: the existing hidden option is for unseen automatic management of the subfield.
15:16	kados	yep
15:16		it's poorly named :/
15:16	thd	kados: I should be more awake but I have been working all night :)
15:16	kados	heh
15:17	thd	kados: we need a column for degree of hiding in the editor.
15:18		kados: a column for degree of use in OCLC.
15:18		kados: a column for degree of use in RLIN.
15:19	kados	OCLC calls it 'degree of use'?
15:19	thd	kados: I just made up that term to describe ...
15:19	kados	what are you trying to represent?
15:19		I don't understand why we would need three different columns
15:21	thd	the variations between must have a field open and ready for filling to hide as far away as you can unless it has data already.
15:21		kados: non-RLIN users would care little about some types of RLIN fields
15:22		kados: similarly with OCLC but those are fewer.
15:23	kados	hmmm
15:23		that seems like it's a bit too advanced for this editor
15:24	thd	kados: and then there is the standard need irrespective of union catalogue membership.
15:24		kados: extra columns do not break anything but I have not added them yet.
15:24	kados	I have no idea what that last sentence means :-)
15:25	thd	kados: which last sentence
15:25	kados	what is the 'standard need'?
15:26	thd	kados: hiding or collapsing uncommonly used fields from the editor yet making them accessible.
15:26	kados	ahh
15:28	thd	kados: that should not be difficult, however, some ARLIN, and OCLC fields need not even be accessible in the to non-users of those systems unless populated with data.
15:30		kados: I was supposing a corollary system preference indicating membership of OCLC, RLIN, WLIN (now part of OCLC), etc.
15:31		kados: record editor reads system preference and field importance to the respective system and treats it appropriately
15:31	kados	that's a nice idea
15:32		but I think a simple 'visibility' flag will suffice for this release
15:32		I still haven't had a chance to build in subfield repeatability and reordering
15:33		and i think we still need to work more on the plugins
15:33		as they are incomplete
15:34	thd	kados: we have already visibility and editability or invisibility and you could not edit it if you wanted to do so.
15:35	kados	however, I assume that if a field is 'hidden' it's value is discarded
15:35		thd: have you tested this theory?
15:35	thd	kados: there are also extra fields for Canadian users creating bilingual records.
15:36		kados: the actual existing 'hidden' column is meant for plugin management and I have not tested it.
15:37		kados: hidden is meant for automated filling with no human intervention.
15:38	kados	test even
15:39	thd	kados: there is also -1 tab setting which I do not like because it requires greater work to set the tab correctly but that does not loose the data to the extent of my experience.
15:40	kados	I just tried 'hidden' on 008
15:40		as far as i can tell it did nothing
15:40		it still shows up and I can still edit it manually or with the plugin
15:40	thd	kados: did nothing meaning that you can see the data even when it is hidden?
15:41	kados	yep, at least from the addbiblio utility
15:42	thd	kados: maybe hidden shows up if the plugin is there try deselecting the plugin.
15:42		kados: set it to hidden with only manual editing.
15:43	kados	still shows up
15:43		so it seems to do nothing :-)
15:43		thd: try on your machine?
15:44		thd: here's another idea
15:44	thd	kados: fixed fields in the '@'subfield or subfields in fields below 010 may behave differently than others.
15:44	kados	thd: what about putting 'rare' subfields in a '11' tab
15:45	thd	kados: that breaks orderliness, which I was trying to maintain.
15:45	kados	thd: lets go that route
15:46		thd: put the rare ones in tab 11
15:46		thd: it's ok that it breaks orderliness for now
15:46	thd	kados: curiously tab is TINYINT(1)
15:46	kados	thd: I can't think of another way to do it in the current scheme
15:46		huh
15:47		well that gives you 256 possible values :-)
15:47		-128 to 128
15:47		(is -1 currently used for anything?)
15:47	thd	kados: really, oh :)
15:49		kados: -1 is hidden in the former the preexisting setting for much of MARC that had been there formerly before I changed it all and setting it to the correct tab :)
15:50		my spell check ate the usage for that sentence :)
15:51	kados	heh
15:52		if a subfield is in tab -1, is the field value saved?
15:53	thd	yes but I changed all those to the correct tab :)
15:53		kados: there are abut 3,500 subfields now :0
15:53	kados	yowsa
15:54	thd	kados: MARC thought of everything and places to put it all more than once :)
15:54	kados	yea
15:55		we need to ask paul at the meeting what the purpose of the 'hidden' option is
15:55	thd	it is a beauty to behold except for the ARLIN mnemonics where I lacked enough of the documentation to record the proper field name
15:56	kados	right
15:56	thd	kados: hidden is plainly described as hidden to be managed automatically by a plugin.
15:57	kados	yea, but as far as i can tell, it does nothing
15:57		if that's true, perhaps we can use it to do what we want :-)
15:58	thd	kados: The code for the patron view at least clearly checks for hidden.
16:03	kados	I think we've still got an hour before the meeting right?
16:03		20:00 GMT is in one hour, right?
16:03	pierrick	yes, I'm just testing my mother internet connection :-)
16:04	kados	pierrick: ok :-)
16:04		I'm gonna head out for a bit of lunch ... be back in a bit
16:04	pierrick	having diner right now... see you in one hour
16:13	thd	kados: hidden seems to do nothing for the record editor even in the default templates.
16:40	kados	T-MINUS 20 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING
16:46		thd: I'm back now if you need to chat before the mtg
16:47	thd	kados: I was disconnected just now
16:47	kados	thd: nothing happened :-)
16:48	thd	:)
16:50		kados: hidden seems to do nothing for the record editor even in the default templates.
16:50	kados	yea, saw that
16:50		we'll have to ask paul if we can appropriate it :-)
16:52	thd	kados: It certainly is used in the OPAC.  Maybe you broke it for the record editor when you fixed other things :)
16:54		kados: I have not been able to test tab 11 because I still have some minor SQL warnings to correct before trying that value not accessible from the templates but I suspect 11 may be trouble without changing the code which would more easily be changed with an additional column.
16:56	kados	right ... we'll ask paul about that too
16:56		it's possible I broke it :-)
16:56		T-MINUS 5 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING
16:56		AGENDA:
16:56		http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes06mar13
16:57		(quite barebones)
16:57		this should be a quick meeting in fact
16:59	thd	kados: have you put off working on authorities for now?
16:59	kados	thd: not necessarily
17:00		thd: but I'd like to finalize our plans for the MARC editor first
17:00		thd: I'd rather have full MARC support and partial authorities support
17:00	thd	kados: of course
17:00	kados	thd: than partial both :-)
17:00	thd	kados: )
17:01	kados	thd: authorities work will probably pick back up again as soon as I hear back from SMFPL who will be the first library i manage to use them
17:01		I'm still waiting to get their data...
17:01		AGENDA:
17:01		http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes06mar13
17:01		if anyone has anything to add, please do
17:01	thd	the editor is much more important for most of your potential customers at this point
17:01	kados	thd: yep
17:02		ok ... it's 20:00 GMT ... time for our weekly Meeting. The Agenda is at http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes06mar13
17:03		lets start with a roll call
17:03		who's here?
17:03	thd	here
17:03	pierrick	here
17:03	kados	hopefully paul will join us
17:04	thd	all that javaScript really slowing my machine :)
17:04	shedges	here
17:04	kados	chris may not make it, or will be late
17:04		we can start with News and Questions
17:05		anyone have any? :-)
17:05		hey russ
17:05	russ	hi everyone
17:05	pierrick	hi russ
17:06	kados	well I don't have any news
17:06	pierrick	I have one general question
17:06	kados	i do have some questions for paul but he's not around :-)
17:06		pierrick: sure
17:07	pierrick	How do you manage new features ? I mean, do you write some specifications (functional and technical) somewhere like the wiki ?
17:07	russ	that is a fantastic question
17:07	kados	yep
17:07	pierrick	russ: thanks :-)
17:08		I do on another project and it's a good practice IMO
17:08	kados	so typically this has been handled by each koha support company
17:08		ie, katipo has a client that needs X, they handle the specs with the client, etc.
17:08		then the code is committed to the main project
17:08		after it's been approved by the client, etc.
17:09	pierrick	When is it approved or rejected by other members of the dev team ?
17:09	russ	chris sends his apologies
17:09	kados	pierrick: so far it's been a small enough community that we haven't really needed formal approval
17:10		but I suspect we're going to want a more formal process as we grow
17:10		ie, code should meet our minimum standards for quality, style, etc.
17:10	thd	pierrick: that is the answer for actual implementation.
17:11	kados	pierrick: if you take 2.2 as an example
17:11		pierrick: all the decisions were basically up to the release manager
17:11		pierrick: paul approved / discarded the code for the release
17:12		pierrick: (though in practice, he didn't really discard anything)
17:12		pierrick: you've had quite a bit of experience working with similarly structured projects, do you bring any advice with you on different ways to handle this issue?
17:13	thd	pierrick: this past weekend I was looking at my work just short of a detailed publicity and technical feature list from October that I had intended also to classify potential features..
17:13	kados	russ: feel free to pitch in as well :-)
17:13	russ	you were doing so well :-)
17:13	kados	heh
17:13	pierrick	My experience is not on business project but on public project (bigger than Koha in number of users)
17:14	kados	right
17:14	pierrick	I'm leading a project with a team of 8 developpers, and twice more really implicated users
17:15		In the wiki, we have a section to write specification for features that could be implemented
17:15		Once the spec written, it is discussed on the forum
17:15	kados	pierrick: are those 8 developers working full-time developing the project?
17:15	thd	pierrick: I imagine that some large projects must have layers of code approval to manage contributions that are absent from small projects like Koha.
17:15	pierrick	no no, not full time
17:16	kados	pierrick: it seems about the same size as Koha then, eh?
17:16	pierrick	less code lines, but much more users
17:16		(around 200 downloads per day)
17:16	kados	gotcha, so approx same number of developers but much more users?
17:17	pierrick	yes
17:17	kados	many more users I should say :-)
17:17		ok
17:17	pierrick	as I said, it's not a business project
17:17	kados	right
17:18	thd	everyone should have a personal ILS, hat is a feature for feature development :)
17:18	kados	well for us, I guess the assumption is that almost all the features are being sponsored by a real library
17:18	pierrick	I think the system of wiki specification + discussion on forum lead to a good reflexion on feature before starting to code
17:18	kados	and therefore, we assume that the specification and implementation will be up to par
17:18		ie, the library needs to be able to use the feature, otherwise all of us would be out of business :-)
17:19	pierrick	yes, I understand ;-)
17:19	kados	the trouble with getting approval from the whole community before coding is
17:19		that library contracts are so hard to get in the first place
17:19		and libraries are such penny-pinchers
17:20	pierrick	the approval from the whole community might be too restrictive, but opening a reflexion with the team before implementing can save time sometimes
17:20	kados	then, when you finally get the contract, they want the feature _yesterday_
17:20		:-)
17:20		pierrick: yes, we've done this on some projects, like the new serials stuff that katipo's working on
17:20	thd	approval of anything that does not completely break the software for other users is understood
17:21	pierrick	when you implement a feature for a customer, do you open a Koha demo with the new feature before installing on their server ?
17:21	russ	pierrick : i agree with on the think before you do concept, the challenge is how to adopt that within the community, without making it too restrictive
17:21	kados	pierrick: yes, I do
17:22	russ	pierrick: yes, we have development versions of koha for all our clients on our own boxes
17:22	kados	also, one problem we've faced thusfar is that several times we have features developed that break previous features
17:22		I think budget-based acquisitions has been broken no less than 3 times :-)
17:22	russ	oh yes
17:22	kados	and it's far from the only example
17:23	pierrick	I think it's normal when a  software get bigger
17:23	thd	kados: the problem there is that features not widely used or sufficiently well commented tend to be trodden upon by other coders.
17:24	kados	so one way to approach this issue is to have a non-profit org
17:24	chris	back
17:24	kados	hey chris
17:24		just in time
17:25	thd	examples are fairly steady if one does not think so much about major modules such as acquisitions
17:25	kados	the non-profit's 'governing body' would be responsible for 'protecting' the feature development in the core ILS
17:26	russ	thd : not sure i understand what you said there - part of the problem has been that major and minor features get trodden on
17:26	pierrick	thank you for answering my question :-) When my company will ask me first new features, I'll prepare a paper and propose it on koha-devel, just to have a feedback (like "Oh no, don't do that this way" or "great, go ahead")
17:26	kados	pierrick: sounds great!
17:26	chris	that would be fantastic
17:26	russ	excellent
17:27	chris	the feedback might be
17:27	thd	the best I have seen is someone erasing the former Amazon web services code not realising what it it did.
17:27	kados	thd++ :-)
17:27	chris	"what a great idea, but remember not to break such and such :-)"
17:27	kados	chris: exactly
17:27		ok ... so any other news or questions?
17:27	owen	What about: "If you do that, don't forget to do this too..."
17:27	kados	owen++
17:28		"while you're in there ..."
17:28	chris	that too :-)
17:28	thd	more comments in the code would definitely help prevent others from breaking your work
17:28	chris	certainly
17:28		more comments ++
17:28	pierrick	chris: I understand very well, I often make this kind of feedback to new developers on my project :-)
17:28	chris	any comments at all ++++++
17:28		:-)
17:28	kados	hehe
17:28		ok ... I'm gonna move on here
17:29		perl-ZOOM Integration
17:29		chris: can you give us a status update?
17:29	thd	I have very few commits but they are completely commented
17:29	chris	i havent done much more on this since last meeting, i extended the searches in SearchMarc a bit more, such that you can search on all that you could in 2.2
17:29	kados	cool
17:30	chris	by default .. i havent figured out how to handle the query builder at the bottom yet
17:30	kados	I remember something about deletions too ... where are we at with that?
17:30	chris	that lets you search any marc tag
17:30	kados	right
17:30		in fact, I'm not 100% sure we _can_ emulate that
17:30		as IIRC it does searches across subfields
17:30	chris	yeah
17:31		deletions
17:31		i havent managed to get this to work yet
17:31	thd	kados: is there a problem searching across subfields in Zebra?
17:32	chris	deletions is the last blocker
17:32	kados	right
17:32		modify works IIRC
17:32	chris	yep
17:32		i can modify and blank a record out
17:32		but i dont really want an index full of blank records :-)
17:33	kados	pierrick: related question: have you attempted a full utf-8 Koha install using the HEAD database?
17:33	chris	add/modify both work in koha using zebra .. and searches work, but deletions im stuck on
17:33	kados	right, I can try to help with that later today
17:33		the Biblio.pm routines probably need some tweaking
17:33	chris	yes
17:34		there will be tweaking/tidying
17:34	kados	yep
17:34	pierrick	kados: no, I'm working on 2.2 with Stephen documentation to understand all what Koha does
17:34	chris	more tweaking in SearchMarc.pm too
17:34		good idea pierrick
17:34	pierrick	kados: I've worked a bit on UTF-8 to check if it was working or not
17:35		kados: on some pure MySQL examples, it works
17:35	kados	pierrick: yea, I saw your email, that's really good news
17:35		pierrick: (even with table definition as utf-8 IIRC, right?)
17:36	pierrick	kados: my screenshot shows it works in Koha
17:36	kados	so our tentitive conclusion is that paul's difficulties were cause by non-UTF-8 data in his database
17:36		I'll try to get a test going with the new db definitions this week
17:36	thd	pierrick: did you see the font funnies?
17:36	kados	so we can confirm that theory
17:36		our final item is the Koha Con
17:37	pierrick	http://le-gall.net/pierrick/im[…]koha-2.2-utf8.png
17:37	kados	but paul's not here to tell us what we want to hear :-)
17:37	pierrick	thd: what font funnies ?
17:37	kados	I'll bug him tomorrow morning about making a formal announcement on the koha and koha-devel lists
17:38		we really can't wait any longer before we go public -- otherwise, noone will be able to attend :-)
17:38		anything else anyone needs to discuss?
17:38	thd	pierrrick:  some fonts do not display the characters correctly in UTF-8 and need to be corrected in css.
17:39	russ	do we need to consider a change to the meeting time?
17:39	pierrick	thd: normal I think, font can represent a charset, not always unicode (very few fonts can represent unicode)
17:39	russ	we haven't discussed some important matters lately becuase paul has been unable to attend
17:40	pierrick	21h40
17:40		GMT+1
17:40	russ	cheers
17:41	pierrick	paul's presence must depend a lot on kids sleep
17:41	chris	what time is it in the us joshua?
17:41	kados	it's 3:41
17:41	chris	ahh that makes sense pierrick
17:41	kados	well ... in Ohio :-)
17:42		I'd be happy to change the time
17:42		the other option where we could get both NZ and France while they are both still awake is going to be 12 hours from now
17:43	chris	and thats 3am
17:43	kados	for me yes :-)
17:43	chris	for you
17:43	pierrick	kados: don't you ever sleep ?
17:43	russ	ack - that's no good for the us
17:43	kados	which I'm ok with
17:44	chris	i think this is probably the best we can do
17:44	owen	Can you tell kados is a bachelor?
17:44	chris	what we might need to do, is write up the minutes and get paul to comment
17:44	kados	heh
17:44		good idea
17:44		I'll do that now in fact
17:44	chris	thanks
17:46	pierrick	can I ask a question ?
17:46	chris	you just did :-)
17:46		sure pierrick
17:46	kados	pierrick: sure
17:46	thd	:)
17:47	pierrick	updating Joshua's document "Updating_koha", it talks about Arch... shouldn't it be deleted ?
17:47	chris	ah yes
17:47	kados	yep, definitely
17:47	pierrick	is there any a plan to migrate from CVS to ... ?
17:47	chris	we did use arch for a little while as an experiment
17:47	thd	only updated
17:47	pierrick	was it a good experiment ?
17:47	chris	when/if savannah support subversion
17:47	kados	if savannah supports svn in the future
17:48	chris	id like to move to that
17:48	kados	yep
17:48		me too
17:48	pierrick	(me too)
17:48	chris	pierrick: i couldnt get my head around arch
17:48	thd	savannah does have arch
17:48	pierrick	I've heard Arch was very hard to use
17:49	chris	i found it so
17:49	thd	give people power and they complain about the speed :)
17:49	chris	:-)
17:49	pierrick	I don't know when Savannah will support Subversion... doesn't seem to be a priority
17:50	chris	yeah, arch is a gnu tool, so it makes sense they would concentrate on that
17:50	thd	they have actually been working heavily to support subversion
17:50	chris	ohh thats good news thd
17:51	pierrick	Gna, the french Savannah (using the same software) supports Subversion and it works great
17:51	thd	they hired some people a few months ago but subversion seems to have been giving some problems
17:51	pierrick	I'm sure Savannah will make Subversion work soon
17:51	chris	cool
17:52	pierrick	I just hope they will ask for help to Gna admins :-)
17:53	thd	I think it is working but the was some difficulty a month ago and they have gradations of reliability where savannah is not equal to cvs on Savannah yet.
17:54	pierrick	Can I ask another question ?
17:54	thd	s/savannah/subversion/
17:54	chris	always pierrick
17:55	pierrick	How do you plan the roadmap ? do you define a set a features you want or do you define a date ?
17:55		I mean, for the new branches
17:55		3.0 for instance
17:55	kados	that's a question for me :-)
17:56	russ	to date, the release manager has coordinated that
17:56	kados	so far I have defined a set of features
17:57		pierrick: if you would like to work on a new system for branches that'd be fine with me
17:58	thd	features have tended to be driven by user funding which too often is merely more and better of the same.
17:58	kados	the release date for 3.0 has gotten pushed back a few times ...
17:58		I originally thought we'd be done before the end of last year
17:58		but by the time we got funding for the perl-zoom stuff
17:59		(which took forever)
17:59	pierrick	kados: if you defined a set of features, you can't define a data... or the quality will be poor
17:59	kados	yep
17:59		that's my approach currently
17:59		I want 3.0 to be a very stable release
17:59		and I'm prepared to push the date back until it's ready
17:59	pierrick	is 3.0 features frozen ?
17:59	thd	Users do not always have the foresight to commit to features kados might like to direct if he choose independently of market considerations.
18:00	kados	pierrick: no
18:01	thd	as long as HEAD is open for commits there is space
18:01	kados	pierrick: really, when we talk about new features, we're talking about you, paul, hdl, chris, and me :-)
18:01		pierrick: it's a small group and we pretty much know what each other is working on and what we want
18:01	pierrick	kados: don't you fear 3.0 will never be ready ? :-/
18:01	kados	pierrick: I'm sure paul fears it :-)
18:01	chris	:-)
18:02	pierrick	(I think of project like Debian)
18:02	chris	im sure at some point in the nearish future
18:02		we will branch a rel_3_0
18:02	kados	yep
18:02	chris	and call a feature freeze
18:02	kados	but we dont' want to be premature with that
18:02		because then we have to deal with merging bugfixes
18:02	chris	and then its just finishing whtas been started and fixing
18:03		id love to do it in subversion
18:03		where merging is so much easier
18:03	kados	yea, that would be nice
18:03	chris	lets branch when we get subversion support :-)
18:03	kados	heh
18:04		does anyone have any specific questions for paul?
18:04	pierrick	dangerous idea ;-)
18:04	kados	asside from details about the Koha Con?
18:04		russ: ?
18:04	thd	pierrick: when Koha release cycle  has the administrative complexity and overhead of the Debian project the Boxer will look at the farmers and look at the pigs and not be able to tell the difference.
18:04	pierrick	kados: about Koha Con... oups, no question on this
18:04	russ	kados: kohacon details are what i am after
18:05	kados	righto
18:06	pierrick	thd: a release cycle is "date based" or "feature based". Anywhat the size of the project. If you always wait for a feature while another buggy features are added, you never release :-/
18:06	thd	does not pierrick know at least half of the details?
18:06	pierrick	I know things, but not all
18:06		what questions do you have ?
18:07	kados	pierrick: there are some features I'd _like_ to have in 3.0
18:07		pierrick: should I tell you what they are?
18:07	pierrick	kados: I understand very well, "feature base" or "date based" is a matter of choice. There is no bad model
18:07	kados	pierrick: maybe send an email to koha-devel explaining briefly some of my ideas?
18:07	thd	pierrick: I am still working on fixing bugs from 3 years ago before I was involved :)
18:08	pierrick	kados: a mail on koha-devel with the list of features for 3.0 would be very interesting to me :-)
18:08	kados	well I already sent off the meeting minutes so I guess our meeting is over :-)
18:08		pierrick: ok, I'll put it on my list for this week
18:09	russ	nice way to constrain a meeting kados :-)
18:09	chris	:)
18:09		i think the best thing we can do
18:09		is communicate lots
18:09	kados	russ: :-)
18:09	thd	russ: I was waiting for you to ask your insightful questions about Koha con
18:09	russ	yep - the devel list is grat for that
18:10	chris	so we know what people are working on, and why, etc
18:10	russ	thd: no point asking if paul isnt here
18:10	chris	i think we have been getting good at using each others strengths, eg thd, kados and I worked well together on the marc editor
18:11		russ: pierrick might be able to answer some he said
18:11	kados	yep, that's been very successful
18:11	russ	sorry i missed that
18:12		pierrick: do you know if anyone has been confirmed to talk
18:12		and when, on what?
18:12	thd	rruss: please ask pierrick now and you can ask paul later also.
18:13	kados	heh, some bastard changed the password for the 'circ' user on LibLime's demo
18:13	pierrick	russ: the only thing we were talking about with Paul was Joshua talk about 3.0 new features
18:14		on the second day with Koha french users
18:14	russ	right
18:15	thd	pierrick: is someone speaking about the virtues of FOSS or are you expecting only the converted to attend?
18:15	pierrick	On the first day, Paul wanted an important french talker to come, but I don't know if he found the good person
18:15	russ	right
18:16	pierrick	thd: I don't know who could speak, Tristan Nitot (Mozilla Europe president) would be a good speaker, but he's ver busy
18:17		INEO and Paul are expecting many librarians, not especially FOSS addicted librarians :-)
18:17	thd	pierrick: I would imagine that FSF could find someone if you did not have someone already.
18:17	chris	russ and I would be willing to do a talk
18:18		i could do the talk (with russ's) help that I gave at linux conf australia earlier this year
18:18	pierrick	chris: great :-)
18:18	chris	which is mostly the history of Koha, why/how it exists etc
18:19	russ	that talk gives some good background as to why koha is open source - why it made sense for a little library in nz
18:19	chris	:)
18:19	pierrick	On the first day, a demo of Koha is planned. IMO it is the hardest talk, it needs to be interesting and not asleeping
18:20	chris	it covers the benefits of FOSS, etc
18:20		yes, thats the trick pierrick
18:20	russ	pierrick : agreed it is a challenge
18:20	thd	it is a comparative for some senses not an absolute :)
18:21	russ	ok i think that answers my question - what i really wanted to know is how much has been decided upon and confirmed
18:21		and i guess the answer to that is "we have ideas and an outline but not much detail yet"
18:21	pierrick	maybe more than I know has been confirmed
18:22	russ	pierrick: sure, i think that is why we should ask paul
18:22	pierrick	russ: yep, Paul is obviously the only who knows
18:22	thd	pierrick, I had thought that you had an attractive brochure already to distribute to Inneo customers about Koha Con.
18:23	pierrick	thd: hum... not yet
18:24		the contacted libraries are not INEO customers yet... INEO contacted libraries with the mailing-lists that all libraries are subscribed to
18:25	thd	pierrick: I presumed that one of your principal goals was to develop more interest in Koha form busy people who would need to schedule well in advance :)
18:25	pierrick	I don't know if the invitation was already sent and if some libraries have reserved a seat
18:26	thd	pierrick: So the invitations were at least prepared for sending.
18:26	pierrick	thd: my principal goals is not so well defined, I've been hired to work on Koha, not because I already knew Koha
18:27		thd: yes, invitation is prepared, I'm sure of it
18:27	thd	pierrick: I did not man your personal goals but  rather the goals of the conference.
18:28	pierrick	thd: sorry, I misunderstood your sentence...
18:29		thd: so your right, Kohacon goal is to promote Koha, from busy people but not only
18:30	thd	pierrick: for your prospective future customers to commit to attending they need to be able to plan well enough in advance.
18:30		yes capture all the people, not just the busy ones
18:31	pierrick	thd: ILS upgrades are often big projects running on several months or years
18:32	thd	pierick: is there a URL for Kohacon?
18:33	pierrick	thd: I don't know
18:38	thd	I think hdl mentioned something about a link on koha.fr,org but I do not see anything.  Part of the home page is not appearing for me.
18:39		the page appears now but I do not see any prominent reference.
18:40	pierrick	URL ?
18:41	thd	pierrick: A website promoting Kohacon and referenced in the invitation for more information.
18:42		not that koha.fr.org could not serve that purpose but I do not see anything.
18:43	chris	we will put information up at koha.org as well
18:43		when we have talked to paul
18:43		i think we just need to get pauls repsonse thd
18:43	russ	/me is in the process of making all those pages now :-)
18:44		hence why i am after the details
18:44	thd	chris: yes of course
18:44	pierrick	I hope Koha Con will be planned by the end of the week, I'll ask Paul if I need to see my boss
18:44	russ	cool thank you pierrick
18:45		lol
18:45		i get that all the time too :-)
18:46	chris	cya later pierrick
18:46	thd	pierrick: I had assumed that Kohacon had already been planned and I was merely uninformed :)
18:48		pierrick_away: see you at another play date
20:11	kados	chris: For update, the record option should be set to the full text of the XML record to added, deleted or replaced. Depending on how the server is configured, it may extract the record's unique ID from the text (i.e. from a known element such as the 001 field of a MARCXML record), or it may require the unique ID to passed in explicitly using the recordIdOpaque option.
20:11		it may be that we need to pass along the full record when we want to delete
20:12	chris	ahh
20:12		could be
20:13		heres what i have
20:13		$rs->sort("yaz", "1=4 <i");
20:13		which should sort by title, ignoring case
20:13		but i get this error
20:14		[request] Sort  ERROR 207 (1)->1
20:14		in the zebra log
20:14	kados	huh
20:14	chris	which leads me to believe there something in the config
20:14		wrong
20:14		in collection.abs
20:15		http://72.14.203.104/search?q=[…]l=en&ct=clnk&cd=4
20:16	kados	could you commit your collection.abs so i can have a look?
20:16	chris	will do, ill commit SearchMarc.pm too
20:17		so you can have a play
20:17		there we go
20:17	kados	http://indexdata.dk/zebra/doc/[…]ort.tkl#id2528289
20:18		Sort
20:18		Z39.50 specifies three different types of sort criteria. Of these Zebra supports the attribute specification type in which case the use attribute specifies the "Sort register". Sort registers are created for those fields that are of type "sort" in the default.idx file. The corresponding character mapping file in default.idx specifies the ordinal of each character used in the actual sort.
20:18		Z39.50 allows the client to specify sorting on one or more input result sets and one output result set. Zebra supports sorting on one result set only which may or may not be the same as the output result set.
20:18	chris	hmm
20:18	kados	not sure if that's relevant, but it might be
20:18	chris	from the ZOOM man
20:19		At present, the only supported sort-specification type is "yaz".  Such a specification con-
20:19		sists of a space-separated sequence of keys, each of which itself consists of two space-sepa-
20:19		rated words (so that the total number of words in the sort-specification is even)
20:19	kados	what the heck?
20:20	chris	if ($rs->sort("yaz", "1=4 >i 1=21 >s") < 0) {
20:20		die "sort failed";
20:20		}
20:20		For example, the sort-specification in the code-fragment above will sort the records in $rs
20:20		case-insensitively in descending order of title, with records having equivalent titles sorted
20:20		case-sensitively in ascending order of subject.  (The BIB-1 access points 4 and 21 represent
20:20		title and subject respectively.)
20:20		so it makes sense .. if i could understand how to get it to work :-)
20:20	kados	right
20:22	chris	googling leads me to believe its erroring because it hasnt indexed the field to be sorted on
20:22		but im not sure
20:22	kados	I didn't get the sortby code in SearchMarc.pm
20:22		or is that not where it is
20:22	chris	yep thats where it is
20:22		(HEAD)
20:22	kados	if ($rs->sort("yaz", "1=4 <i") < 0) {
20:22		should'nt that be:
20:23		if ($rs->sortby("yaz", "1=4 <i") < 0) {
20:23		?
20:23	chris	umm it says sort in the man page
20:23	kados	http://search.cpan.org/~mirk/N[…]d#ZOOM%3A%3AQuery
20:23		ZOOM::Query says sortby :-)
20:23	chris	yeah this is resultset
20:24	kados	ahh
20:24	chris	ZOOM::ResultSet
20:24	kados	well shouldn't you do the sort in the query?
20:24	chris	either or
20:24		resultset is the cache of all the results
20:25		allows you to resort without requerying
20:25		ie without researching, you can reorder the results
20:25	kados	ahh right
20:25		that'd be nice
20:25	chris	yeah
20:26		and its working
20:26	kados	it is?
20:26	chris	in the way that its not erroring/dieing
20:26		its passing the query to zebra
20:26		and zebra is saying error 207
20:27	kados	ahh
20:27		hmmm
20:27		so prolly the .abs file then
20:27		sigh
20:28		melm 245/?/a            title           !:w,!:p,!:s
20:28	chris	yeah i think its to do with !:s
20:28		yeah that was me playing around
20:28	kados	heh:
20:28		http://lists.indexdata.dk/pipe[…]nuary/000971.html
20:29		Tumer :-)
20:29	chris	ohh so we need elm not melm?
20:30	kados	that would be weird
20:30		melm:
20:30		This directive is specifically for MARC-formatted records, ingested either in the form of MARCXML documents, or in the ISO2709/Z39.2 format using the grs.marcxml input filter. You can specify indexing rules for any subfield, or you can leave off the  $subfield   part and specify default rules for all subfields of the given field (note: default rules should come after any subfield-specific rules in the configuration file). The  attributes   have the same syntax and me
20:31	chris	yeah
20:31	kados	I wonder if you can mix and match
20:37	chris	good question
20:38		can you make zebra reindex itself?
20:38		i wonder if thats the problem all the old records made before we told it :s ?
20:39	kados	hmmm, yea could be
20:39		zebraidx -s rings a bell, but I'm not 100% sure
20:39		(for reindexing)
20:40		btw: I just tried a delete
20:40		and I get a 404
20:40	chris	oh maybe it worked?
20:40		hmm
20:40		where did you delete from?
20:40	kados	no, the item still exists
20:40		http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]?biblionumber=138
20:40		could be a template problem
20:40		where are you deleting from?
20:41	chris	havent tried today but from there
20:41		http://koha.koha2.katipo.co.nz[…]Cdetail.pl?bib=11
20:42		i dont get a 404, but it doesnt kill the record either :)
20:43		it is trying to do it
20:43		12:42:47-14/03 zebrasrv(6) [request] EsRequest  ERROR 224 only XML update supported
20:43		but its not happy
20:43		(thats the delete)
20:45	kados	huh, mine doesn't even try
20:45		I just get a 500
20:45		(found the bug in the template causing the prob and fixed it in cvs)
20:46		heh
20:46		[Mon Mar 13 16:46:11 2006] [error] [client 70.106.173.65] HTML::Template->new() : Cannot open included file doc-head-close-addbiblio.inc : file not found. at /usr/share/perl5/HTML/Template.pm line 2178., referer: http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]?biblionumber=138
20:46		damn it
20:46	chris	that would do it :-)
20:50	kados	ok ...
20:50		so now it doesn't 500
20:50		I delete an item and I get:
20:50		16:51:17-13/03 zebrasrv(9) [request] EsRequest  ERROR 224 only XML update supported
20:51	chris	yep
20:51		me too
20:52	kados	I've got to get something to eat
20:52		bbiab
20:52	chris	cya
20:53	kados	one thing to try
20:53		is passing it the whole record
20:53		(though that just seems silly)
20:54		it might be the only way
20:54	chris	yeah
20:54		ok so you cant mix melm and elm
20:55		12:54:43-14/03 zebrasrv(2) [warn] collection.abs:35: Bad level increase
22:24	rach	hi ya
22:28	kados	heya rach
22:28		ok, so I'm starting to see how this works
22:28		there's a default.idx file in the 'tab' dir
22:29	chris	yep
22:29		it looks ok
22:29	kados	that's where the index types are specified
22:29		and yea, it look ok
22:29	chris	Idx: [s]bib1:ISBN [7] data XData:"0525247688"
22:29	kados	as does the string.chr it refers too
22:29	chris	i ran update with -s
22:29		it says its creating an sorting index
22:29		on isbn
22:30	kados	same error for me
22:30	chris	yeah
22:30		im just playing in yaz-client
22:30		to see if i can get it to work
22:30	kados	cool
22:32	chris	grr
22:32		Diagnostic message(s) from database:
22:32		[207] Cannot sort according to sequence -- v2 addinfo ''
22:32		same error in yaz-client
22:32		there must be something im missing
22:36	kados	huh
22:36		what's the advantage to indexing with 'melm' rather than just 'elm'?
22:37	chris	pass
22:37		i dont understand anything in the .abs file to any real extent :-)
22:39		melm is specifically for MARC records
22:39	kados	I'm gonna reindex with 'elm'
22:39	chris	sounds like a plan
22:39		in yaz-client
22:39		if you do a find
22:39		then you can do a
22:39		sort 1=4 ai
22:40		which should sort on title
22:40		to test
22:42	kados	18:43:58-13/03 zebrasrv(1) [warn] collection.abs:34: Bad # of args to elm
22:42		18:43:58-13/03 zebrasrv(1) [warn] collection.abs:35: Bad level increase
22:43		changed all the 'melm' to 'elm'
22:43	chris	i have a plan
22:45		http://prdownloads.sourceforge[…]3.tar.gz?download
22:45		lets look at how emilda have theres set up
22:47	kados	k
22:47	chris	the usmarc.abs one
22:47		is all done with elm
22:47		not melm
22:50	kados	huh
22:51	chris	maybe we can copy that, and call that collection.abs :)
22:51	kados	heh
23:05		btw: switching gears a bit
23:05		http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/paris/109815
23:05		tina found that article which recommends renting an apartment in paris :-)
23:11	rach	renting an appartment in vienna was a lot cheeper than a hotel
23:17	kados	+ you get a kitchen :-)
23:18		it might be worth it to find an appartment where chris, rach, tina and I can all stay ... that way we could split the cost
23:18		s/rach/russ/
23:18		unless you're planning to go to France rach :-)
23:22	russ	kados: ben has summoned rach :-)
23:43	kados	russ: ben?
23:43		ahh ... ben :-)
23:43		hehe
01:03	thd	kados: are you still up?
01:12	kados	thd: yep, kinda
01:12		thd: what's up?
01:15	thd	kados: I could send you an SQL file that would be useful for a new installation as it could be subsequently updated after I am awake enough to finish a few things that I was too tired to focus on today.
01:16	kados	thd: I can wait until tomorrow
01:16		thd: get some sleep :-)
01:17	thd	kados: It would also work on an existing installation but you would need to add whatever MARC fiend/subfields you had mapped to the items table outside the original default.
01:18		kados: I was too tired too sleep before.
01:18	kados	heh
01:18		yea I know how that is :-)
01:19	thd	kados: I was productive until early this afternoon and then I became a zombie :)
01:20	kados	yea, I've been kinda burned out for the last couple days
01:21		tomorrow's another day
01:22		and with that, I'm gonna head out
01:22		ciao all
01:23	thd	kados: the SQL errors were only careless copying of the form from the previous line without changing the field or subfield for the next line.  Just a few minutes to fix those earlier just as I have usually had between manually editing the SQL dump and and then executing it.
01:24		kados: good night.
04:59	russ	paul you around?
04:59	paul	yes
04:59	russ	hi there
04:59	paul	hello russ
05:00		today i'm well, as baby made a complete night
05:00		as well as us ;-)
05:00	russ	ah that is good
05:01		baby is better now?
05:01	paul	I've read the summary joshua made about the meeting.
05:01		(yes)
05:01	russ	cool and cool
05:01	paul	I plan to open a wikipage about KohaCon
05:01		hello pierrick
05:02	russ	cool - i have started work on pages for koha.org
05:02		including a space on the front page to highlight it
05:02	paul	this wikipage will be for organisational questions.
05:02	russ	good idea
05:02	paul	will mostly be for our internal use
05:03	russ	cool - yep the web page is for promotional use
05:03		i think it will be good for those going and even those who wont be
05:04		ah i need to make you a login for the cms so you can see the site before it goes up
05:07		how are you getting on with the programme for the first day?
05:07	paul	I have to work on it a little.
05:07		but i'm a little overbooked those days.
05:07	russ	i know that feeling :-)
05:08	paul	(for example : i've 214 unread commits on koha-cvs head-only. + 47 for rel_2_2. As 2.2 release manager I think it's poor :-( )
05:09	russ	oh dear - that sounds like a lot of work :-(
05:10	paul	+ 2RFP + some accounting questions + +++ ...
05:10	pierrick	hi russ and paul
05:10	russ	yep to do lists only get longer
05:10		hi pierrick
05:26	chris	evening
05:29	pierrick	chris: :-)
05:29	paul	hello chris
05:29		are you happy with France - GB last rugby result ?
05:30	chris	yes very happy
05:30	paul	it seems france scored the most rapid try in the "tournoi des 6 nations".
05:31	chris	ireland or france now .... so im happy, as long as england dont win, im always happy in the 6 nations :-)
05:31	paul	less than 1mn...
05:31	chris	england play boring rugby
05:31	russ	hi chris
05:31	chris	and if they win, its a win for boredom :-) i much prefer the way france plays :-)
05:32	hdl	hello world
05:39	russ	hi hdl
05:39	hdl	hi russ
05:39		hi paul, chris and pierrick.
05:40	chris	hi hdl
05:50	pierrick	hi hdl
05:51	osmoze	hi too
05:51	pierrick	hi osmoze
05:51	chris	hi osmoze
06:03	russ	night all
06:04	hdl	nite russ.
06:04	pierrick	good night
06:04	paul	good night kiwis
08:30	pierrick	osmoze: are u there ?
09:40	osmoze	pierrick>  now yes
09:40	paul	les parisiens et les autres n'ont pas tout à fait le même horaire pour déjeuner ;-)
09:41	osmoze	(les fonctionnaire et les autres ;))
09:41		+s
09:43		au passage bonjour Paul
09:43		hier soir est passé uyne conversation vis a vis de kohacon, des news ?
09:44	paul	super !
09:44		pas de news particulière. En gros : on bosse, on rame sur l'utf8, ca marche pas trop mal avec zebra
09:52	osmoze	hdl here ?
09:52	paul	(il peut être pas loin, mais si tu l'attrapes pas cet aprèm, il est absent 2 jours ensuite)
09:53	osmoze	je vais faire mes remarques par mails, ce sera plus simple ^^
09:53	pierrick	omoze: ma question portait sur ta gestion des branches, mais la lecture de la bonne section dans la doc a répondu de manière générale
09:53	osmoze	ok pierrick  :)
09:56		paul, peut etre que tu peux me renseigner, le nettoie_bdp ( que tu nous avez fais a l epoque) marqué "L |" pour les cds, es ce corriger ?
09:56		-avez + avais
09:57	paul	mais effectivement, hdl serait plus apte à une réponse correcte.
09:57	osmoze	ok :) je m en depatouille avec lui ^^
10:01	pierrick	logbot, status?
10:23	paul	pierrick : logbot est l'automate qui archive le canal sur www.koha.org/irc
10:44	pierrick	yes paul ?
10:44	paul	tu as quelques minutes ?
10:44		(à propos de l'utf8)
10:44	pierrick	oui, bien sûr
10:44	paul	j'essaye de refaire ton test uft8
10:44		ce n'est pas bienconcluant...
10:45	pierrick	:-/
10:45	paul	mais je ne pense pas être en utf8 sur mon terminal
10:45		comment je peux le vérifier ?
10:45		locale me donne :
10:45		[rootbureau ~]# cd /home/paul/tmp
10:45		[rootbureau tmp]# locale
10:45		LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_MESSAGES=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_PAPER=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_NAME=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45	osmoze	c est quoi l avantage de l utf8 ( depuis que ca en discute beaucoup, j arrive pas a faire le d"istingo)
10:45	paul	LC_ADDRESS=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_TELEPHONE=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_IDENTIFICATION=fr_FR.UTF-8
10:45		LC_ALL=
10:45		mais ton test me renvoie :
10:45		{1} ���
10:45	pierrick	osmoze: je te réponds après :-)
10:46	paul	là ou j'avais mis un coeur, un coeur renversé et un symbole musical
10:46	pierrick	3 caractères ?
10:46	paul	si je me mets en CTRL-ALT-F1 (donc console pure)
10:46		exact
10:46		j'ai trois ? blancs sur fond noir.
10:46		(accessoirement, je DOIS me logguer en root avec su - pour que ca marche, si je me loggue en "paul", j'ai un locale en fr_FR tout simple
10:46		)
10:47	pierrick	alors il faut cour-circuiter le copier/coller
10:47	paul	???
10:47		j'oubliais :
10:47		[rootbureau tmp]# ./versions.pl
10:47		DBD::mysql : 3.0002
10:47		Perl : 5.8.7
10:47		MySQL : 4.1.12
10:47		DBI : 1.48
10:47	pierrick	il faut enregister la page html sur ton disque et la faire lire à Perl
10:47	paul	qué page HTML ?
10:48	pierrick	http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/utf8-t1.html
10:48	paul	j'ai fait du copier coller dans kate, en me mettant en utf8, et je vois bien dans le fichier ce que j'ai copié
10:48	pierrick	déjà, ta version de DBD::mysql est plus récente
10:49		OK, alors ça doit être plutôt bon... Combien pèse ton fichier ?
10:49	paul	le fichier utf8.txt ?
10:49	pierrick	oui
10:49	paul	9 octets
10:49		3x3 quoi
10:50		j'ai mis ca dedans :
10:50		HEAVY BLACK HEART
10:50		ROTATED HEAVY BLACK HEART BULLET
10:50	hdl	osmoze : Je n'avais pas vu... Dsl
10:50	paul	CURVED STEM PARAGRAPH SIGN ORNAMENT
10:51	pierrick	si tu fais $(cat utf8.txt), ça affiche quoi ?
10:52	paul	-bash: ���,: command not found
10:52	pierrick	ton terminal ne doit pas être en utf-8, définitivement...
10:53	paul	et comment je le mets en utf8 ?
10:53		zat is the kestion...
10:53	pierrick	tu utilises quoi comme terminal ?
10:53	paul	konsole
10:53	pierrick	mais de toute façon, ça n'est pas important, la finalité, c'est d'envoyer de l'UTF-8 dans une page web
10:54		moi j'utilise gnome-terminal, c'est en UTF-8 par défaut sous Ubutun
10:54	osmoze	paul>  set-language-env en tant qu utilisateur, ca marche pas ?
10:54	paul	[rootbureau paul]# set-language-env
10:54		bash: set-language-env: command not found
10:54	osmoze	je ne sais pas sous Mandriva
10:54	pierrick	donc je te propose de rediriger la sortie de readfile_insertdb.pl dans un fichier
10:55	paul	mandriva powa, sauf pour l'utf8 ;-)
10:55	pierrick	modifie un peu mon script
10:55	paul	BINGO !
10:56		[rootbureau tmp]# ./readfile_insertdb.pl utf8.txt >utf8B.txt
10:56	pierrick	dans le dernier foreach, ne garde que print $string->{value};
10:56	paul	si j'ouvre le fichier utf8B.txt sous kate, que je demande l'affichage en utf8, ca marche bien.
10:56	pierrick	:-)
10:56	paul	ce qui m'avance en partie.
10:56	pierrick	j'allais te propose de comparer les md5sums
10:56	paul	reste maintenant à tout mettre en utf8...
10:57	pierrick	mais si visuellement dans Kate c'est bon, alors ça le serait aussi dans un browser
10:57	hdl	ce qui est assez difficile, c'est que nos utilisateurs ne seront certainement pas tous en clavier utf-8. Il faudra certainement toujours vérifer et convertir nos variables.
10:57	pierrick	mouais... pas évident que mettre son terminal en UTF-8 soit si utile que ça
10:58		personnellement, je ne comprends pas ce que "clavier utf8" veut dire
10:58	hdl	En faisant export, tu as quoi comme variable CHARSET et KBCHARSET.
10:58	paul	pierrick : moi non plus ;-)
10:58	hdl	pierrick: En fait, cela veut dire que les touches que tu tapes sont directement interprétées en utf-8 et génèrent des codes UTF-8.
10:59	paul	declare -x LESSCHARSET="utf-8"
10:59		rien pour kbcharset je crois

← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index