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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 11:00 | paul | to put all modifs between rel_2_2 and 225 into head |
| 11:00 | (or probably better : -j 224 -j 225 | |
| 11:00 | as there should not be anything interesting before 224 | |
| 11:00 | kados | but I want to update HEAD using rel_2_2 ... is there a tag for HEAD? |
| 11:01 | paul | nope |
| 11:01 | but if you are in head, -j 224 -j 225 will backport all modifs between 224 and 225 to your current branch (head) | |
| 11:02 | iirc, because i'm not a cvs geek in fact. | |
| 11:02 | kados | hmmm |
| 11:08 | $ cvs update -j 224 -j rel_2_2 updatedatabase | |
| 11:08 | cvs update: file updatedatabase exists, but has been added in revision rel_2_2 | |
| 11:09 | paul | cvs checkout could be better. |
| 11:11 | kados | only works for module names, not files |
| 11:22 | paul | kados : don't forget to read & anwser to my mail "new features for borrowers" |
| 11:23 | kados | paul: yep, I have added it to tonight's meeting agenda |
| 11:23 | paul | (knowing that OP guys read the list, even if they never write) |
| 11:23 | kados | I will respond when we talk about it |
| 11:23 | but my first thought is ... | |
| 11:23 | paul | ... suspens ... |
| 11:23 | kados | there are probably many libraries that will need to adjust borrowers fields |
| 11:24 | so we need an extensible framework to handle this need | |
| 11:25 | (same goes for 'statuses' and 'branches' too) | |
| 11:25 | (and 'holdings' :-) | |
| 11:25 | paul | I think that what they suggest is almost enough : it get rids with hardcoded categories, but don't add too many complexity + mandatory fields will be systempref driven. |
| 11:25 | going further could make Koha more complex, maybee too complex. | |
| 11:25 | kados | you mean too complex to set up? |
| 11:25 | paul | yep |
| 11:31 | kados | paul: have you wondered about zebra authentication? it seems currently, anyone can connect via ZOOM to my zebra and make changes to the db, or am I wrong? :-) |
| 11:31 | paul | you're not wrong. |
| 11:32 | it's because you've added anonymous: rw in your zebra.cfg | |
| 11:32 | (I added it too) | |
| 11:32 | of course, it will have to be changed ;-) | |
| 11:32 | (but if your firewall is correctly set, incoming connections should fail anyway) | |
| 11:36 | kados | I see |
| 11:40 | paul: I just forwarded to you an email with ideas for handling holdings in 3.0 | |
| 11:40 | paul: I sent it to chris over the weekend | |
| 11:45 | will we continue to use biblio framework in 3.0? | |
| 11:45 | paul | probably. |
| 11:45 | kados | for acquisitions mainly? |
| 11:45 | paul | I bet yes in fact : the new MARC editor will be really too much for many libraries. |
| 11:46 | I think we will have 3 marc editors : the MARC=OFF, the 2.2 MARC=ON, and the brand new complete-but-for-MARC-fans | |
| 11:46 | kados | how about the biblio,biblioitems,items tables? |
| 11:47 | they are unused currently in head right? | |
| 11:47 | paul | will stay as well |
| 11:47 | nope. | |
| 11:47 | they are still used (although sightly, I agree) | |
| 11:47 | and i am SURE it would be a bad idea to remove them completly. | |
| 11:47 | kados | why? |
| 11:47 | paul | at least for developpers. |
| 11:48 | if we don't have easy-to-use SQL queries to check datas, things will be much much more complex. | |
| 11:48 | kados | but with zebra you can use nice cql queries :-) |
| 11:48 | paul | for example : if you have only issues tables, how can you check (export) the list of books in 1 SQL query ? |
| 11:48 | yes, but : | |
| 11:49 | 1- we don't have a tool like phpmyadmin for CQL | |
| 11:49 | 2- even if we had, we still need to have something to merge biblio and other data. | |
| 11:49 | for example : | |
| 11:50 | in borrowerdetails, you want to show all books reserved/issued by someone. | |
| 11:50 | quieriyng through CQL would be a waste of time. | |
| 11:50 | kados | well ... it depends |
| 11:50 | if you grab a list of recordids from issues table | |
| 11:51 | then query through cql to zebra to get title/author, etc. | |
| 11:51 | it should be quite fast | |
| 11:51 | paul | where you could to this in 1 SQL query only ? I don't believe even a second it would be faster ! |
| 11:52 | kados | it wouldn't be one SQL query |
| 11:52 | and I don't think we have speed problems for such a query | |
| 11:52 | ie, one more millasecond wont' hurt | |
| 11:52 | paul | it already is 1 SQL if i don't mind ;-) |
| 11:52 | kados | right ... so 1 SQL + 1 CQL |
| 11:53 | the advantage is that the template designer can decide what to display | |
| 11:53 | right now we are limited to what is in biblio,biblioitems,items | |
| 11:53 | and if we use old koha tables that eliminates the possibility to import other record formats | |
| 11:53 | like dublin core or MODS | |
| 11:53 | paul | not really 1 CQL, 1CQL for each item ! |
| 11:54 | kados | yep, it's true |
| 11:54 | I agree it's slower, but I don't think it matters | |
| 11:54 | as the flexibility is more important | |
| 11:54 | IMO | |
| 11:56 | just imagine how interesting it could be to return a list of records | |
| 11:56 | and have a '+' sign next to them | |
| 11:56 | you click on '+' and it shows you the whole record | |
| 11:56 | without the need for a details screen | |
| 11:57 | the idea being, we do a query, return all relevant data to the template designer, and let him decide what to display | |
| 11:57 | also, imagine having two databases in Koha: one for dublin core (for full-text electronic items) and one for MARC (regular biblios) | |
| 11:58 | if we discard the old koha tables | |
| 11:58 | it opens the possibility to index any record format that zebra can handle | |
| 11:59 | paul | we already can index anything. We just have to map fields to biblio.* |
| 11:59 | (except, I agree, we can handle only 2 level marc like records) | |
| 12:00 | (2 level records like marc is better ;-) ) | |
| 12:00 | kados | but really, MARC21 is up to 8 levels |
| 12:01 | paul | no, I mean tech 2 level : fields / subfields |
| 12:01 | kados | I see |
| 12:01 | paul | however, I agree we could/should get rid of additionalauthors, bibliosubject, bibliosubtitle. |
| 12:02 | that are useless now. we just need few basic informations on biblio/items. | |
| 12:02 | but Even to remove them, I would ask chris, because it will really break MARC=OFF | |
| 12:02 | and thus i'm not sure it would be acceptable for kiwis | |
| 12:02 | kados | paul: chris and I discussed this |
| 12:02 | MARC=OFF means to use an XML format that is modeled off the old Koha tables | |
| 12:03 | which illustrates my point again | |
| 12:03 | if we eliminate old Koha tables, we will be able to index any record format | |
| 12:04 | IMO the old koha structure is the reason no large libraries (like georgia PINES) choose Koha | |
| 12:04 | there is too much fudging to try to map between MARC and Koha tables | |
| 12:05 | plus, zebra adds functionality that we currently can't do easliy | |
| 12:05 | easily I mean | |
| 12:05 | like maintaining the same ID for a record even while updating it | |
| 12:08 | it seems they are not open yet | |
| 12:08 | MST not EST | |
| 12:17 | paul: also, unless I'm mistaken, Z39.50 is a stateful protocol ... so I believe we could have just one $Zconn for the whole ILS ... which would dramatically reduce query times | |
| 12:18 | as connections don't time out IIRC | |
| 12:45 | paul | back from phone. |
| 12:46 | kados : to check how utf8 works for you : | |
| 12:46 | * grap a cvs head copy | |
| 12:46 | * just go to marc_subfield_structure.pl (or itemtypes.pl, or any admin table) | |
| 12:47 | * edit, adding an utf8 char (copy paste one from an electronic utf8 table if you don't have one) | |
| 12:47 | * save it | |
| 12:47 | it should appear as a non utf8 string immediatly after saving. | |
| 12:47 | (at least that's what happends to me) | |
| 12:48 | just add Decode::Encode_utf8() to your variable (before saving & while reading) and things should be OK | |
| 12:48 | ? | |
| 12:48 | (oups, was trying to paste an unicode char) | |
| 12:48 | kados | (phone) ... brb |
| 12:49 | back | |
| 12:51 | paul: you use vi editor? | |
| 12:54 | |hdl| | I do |
| 12:54 | (somtimes because of ssh) | |
| 12:55 | kados | I'm confused |
| 12:55 | |hdl| | kados |
| 12:55 | kados | i edit marc_subfield_structure.pl? |
| 12:55 | where do I add the utf-8 char? | |
| 12:55 | |hdl| | Yes Quite confusing the first times... |
| 12:55 | OOOPS ? | |
| 12:56 | Under Linux, there is a .vimrc | |
| 12:56 | But I never encountered charset pbs. | |
| 12:57 | kados | I still don't understand what I am supposed to do to test |
| 12:57 | |hdl| | :set encoding=utf-8 |
| 12:57 | in command. | |
| 12:57 | kados | ok ... that's it? |
| 12:57 | |hdl| | Should. |
| 12:58 | But Maybe it is a dev module. | |
| 12:58 | kados | then save the file? |
| 12:58 | it didn't appear to do anything | |
| 12:58 | |hdl| | which version ? |
| 12:58 | vi -v | |
| 12:58 | or -version | |
| 12:59 | kados | 6.3.84 |
| 13:01 | |hdl| | see :http://eyegene.ophthy.med.umich.edu/unicode/ |
| 13:02 | or http://www.vim.org/htmldoc/mbyte.html | |
| 13:05 | kados | hmmm |
| 13:05 | I still don't understand what we are testing | |
| 13:06 | are we testing whether filenames can be encoded in utf-8? | |
| 13:06 | whether our scripts themselves? | |
| 13:06 | or whether data in the database? | |
| 13:06 | I thought it was just to test whether borrowers, branch names, etc. could be utf-8 | |
| 13:08 | |hdl|: can you clarify? | |
| 13:09 | |hdl| | Sorry. |
| 13:09 | I am working on acquisitions. | |
| 13:09 | I think that script names are not the problem. | |
| 13:10 | BUT since we want to be FULL UTF-8 compliant, | |
| 13:10 | I think that we must ensure : data in database is UTF-8 | |
| 13:10 | AND perl generated HTML pages are UTF-8 | |
| 13:11 | Does that make sense ? | |
| 13:11 | kados | yep |
| 13:11 | so we need to modify msyql | |
| 13:11 | tables | |
| 13:11 | |hdl| | The fact is that I saw Paul's problem with utf-8 but couldnot get much implied in tests. |
| 13:12 | kados | and we need to tell perl that all output should be sent as utf-8 |
| 13:12 | |hdl| | (I am moving and doing much DIY) |
| 13:14 | kados | http://perldoc.perl.org/utf8.html |
| 13:14 | that means script is written in utf-8 | |
| 13:16 | http://ahinea.com/en/tech/perl[…]ode-struggle.html | |
| 13:19 | it seems we need to warn perl if we are dealing with utf-8 data | |
| 13:19 | |hdl| | not so easy indeed :/ |
| 13:28 | kados : rrp stands for unit price ? | |
| 13:29 | Retailer R. price wht does the r stands for . | |
| 13:29 | And ecost ? | |
| 13:30 | kados | not sure :/ |
| 13:30 | http://www.google.com/search?h[…]3Arrp&btnG=Search | |
| 13:30 | |hdl|: abbreviation for recommended retail price. | |
| 13:32 | |hdl| | thanks. |
| 13:33 | paul, kados : why is freight counted for each item ? | |
| 13:33 | $total=($parcelitems[$i]->{'unitprice'} + $parcelitems[$i]->{'freight'}) * $parcelitems[$i]->{'quantityreceived'}; #weird, are the freight fees counted by book? (pierre) | |
| 13:33 | $parcelitems[$i]->{'unitprice'}+=0; | |
| 13:33 | ||
| 13:38 | kados chris (when you get up) : And P&P in reveice page ? | |
| 13:38 | s/reveice/receive/ | |
| 13:38 | kados | I'm not sure ... sometimes each book will add weight |
| 13:39 | if chris added that code then he could explain it I think | |
| 13:39 | |hdl| | P&P on the net is Plans and Programs (military field) |
| 13:48 | kados | hmm ... it seems I'm forbiden to set topic |
| 13:49 | paul | kados : |
| 13:49 | just go into Koha, admin >> itemtypes >> modify | |
| 13:49 | and here, enter an utf8 character as itemtype description (after the existing description) | |
| 13:50 | then save, and you should see if your description is correctly handled in utf8 or not. | |
| 13:50 | for me, it's not. | |
| 13:50 | kados | well ... it's my undeerstanding that if content-type is not utf-8 |
| 13:50 | then when it is saved it will not be utf-8 | |
| 13:50 | paul | I enter a greek letter, and after hitting "save", I see something like ÎA |
| 13:50 | mmm... did I missed something in the templates ??? (are you with PROG ?) | |
| 13:51 | kados | yes, PROG |
| 13:52 | but I believe I will need to tell the perl script that I intend to use utf-8, right? | |
| 13:52 | paul | mmm... your cvs is uptodate ? |
| 13:52 | no, I don't think so. | |
| 13:52 | kados | yes, cvs is up-to-date |
| 13:52 | it seems that 'add item type' is broken :/ | |
| 13:53 | paul | (in fact : yes, you have to do this, or you'll get wrong results. but TÜmer told me he made nothing, and it works for him) |
| 13:53 | what happends for instance : | |
| 13:53 | * you have an utf8 string in firefox. | |
| 13:54 | * when you read the parameter, Perl see it as uft8 correctly (if I don't mind) | |
| 13:54 | kados | [Mon Feb 20 10:11:20 2006] [error] [client 70.104.108.241] can't opendir /home/koha/testing/koha/opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl/npl/value_builder: No such file or directory at /home/koha/testing/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/admin/itemtypes.pl line 109., referer: http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]dmin/itemtypes.pl |
| 13:54 | [Mon Feb 20 10:11:20 2006] [error] [client 70.104.108.241] Premature end of script headers: itemtypes.pl, referer: http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]dmin/itemtypes.pl | |
| 13:54 | even though I'm using PROG, it calls for npl templates :( | |
| 13:54 | paul | * then, Perl sends the string to DBD::mysql, and that's where is the problem : dbd::mySQL ignores the utf8 flag, or something like that. And it stores the value wrong. |
| 13:55 | (try something else : branch, framework, ...) | |
| 13:55 | kados | what is a french utf-8 word that I can test with? |
| 13:55 | paul | which OS do you use ? |
| 13:56 | kados | linux |
| 13:56 | OSX on my desktop | |
| 13:56 | paul | copy paste something from http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/utf8-t1.html |
| 13:57 | kados | A |
| 13:57 | that? | |
| 13:58 | U+0041 | |
| 13:58 | or that? | |
| 13:58 | paul | look here : |
| 13:58 | http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]45&frameworkcode= | |
| 13:58 | you should see a Î3/4 after title | |
| 13:58 | where I entered a greek letter | |
| 13:58 | ==> fortunately you have the same problem ;-) | |
| 13:59 | no, copy/paste a letter that is between [] (1st column) | |
| 14:00 | kados | http://kohatest.liblime.com/cg[…]admin/branches.pl |
| 14:01 | paul | is it what you entered ? (it's not "true utf8" if i don't mind) |
| 14:01 | tries with something that is NOT in ascii 255 range. | |
| 14:01 | something like a greek letter or an arab one. | |
| 14:01 | I show. | |
| 14:02 | kados | correct |
| 14:02 | paul | search : |
| 14:02 | U+0629 | |
| 14:02 | kados | it was three greek letters I copied pasted |
| 14:02 | paul | I added it to your utf8 branch. |
| 14:02 | kados | but ... I suspect that the problem is quite simple |
| 14:02 | paul | now, it looks like : |
| 14:02 | ة | |
| 14:03 | kados | the branches.pl script and html on that page is not utf-8 |
| 14:03 | so when we submit something, it is not encoded as utf-8 | |
| 14:03 | paul | the html in firefox is utf8 at least |
| 14:04 | kados | well ... it is in the <meta> tag |
| 14:04 | but that doesn't mean it is for sure | |
| 14:05 | I will attempt to validate | |
| 14:05 | ok .. you're right ... it's utf-8 | |
| 14:06 | paul | I also tried to iconf -fiso -tutf8 branches.pl, it changes nothing |
| 14:06 | BUT : | |
| 14:06 | add Encode::decode_utf8() to all variable read/saved to mySQL, and things will go correctly | |
| 14:07 | iiuc : | |
| 14:07 | Perl has an internal flag "utf8", to say "this variable contains utf8 data" | |
| 14:07 | kados | can't we set that in context.pm? |
| 14:07 | paul | with many tools to magically find that a var is utf8. but dbd::mysql driver don't set or use them. |
| 14:08 | thus, all variables coming from mysql are "utf8 = NO" | |
| 14:08 | the decode_utf8 says "yes, it is, force" | |
| 14:08 | your question : no, because it's not DBH handled, but for EACH sql reading | |
| 14:08 | for example : | |
| 14:09 | my ($x $y) = $sth->fetchrow | |
| 14:09 | you must Encode::Decode $x AND $y | |
| 14:09 | give it a try in branches.pl, you'll see it works ! | |
| 14:09 | kados | for writing and reading or just for reading? |
| 14:09 | paul | but what is VERY strange, is that for tumer it seems to work without this decode_utf8 |
| 14:10 | (both i'm afraid, but I did not tried with only 1 (read). It may work) | |
| 14:31 | time to leave. 6:30 PM | |
| 14:31 | see you in 2:30 hours, unless something goes wrong | |
| 14:41 | thd | kados: all accented letters are two bytes in UTF-8 so much of French is different in UTF-8. |
| 14:42 | paul | just before leaving : someone suggests me to use |
| 14:42 | http://search.cpan.org/~oyama/[…]P-0.04/mysqlPP.pm | |
| 14:42 | thd | |hdl|: have you left? |
| 14:42 | |hdl| | not yet |
| 14:43 | thd | |hdl|: What was the problem with leader management, needing a code change? |
| 14:44 | |hdl| | s/remind/recall/ |
| 14:45 | Perhaps you could search in bugzilla ? | |
| 14:53 | thd | |hdl|: I only find old bugs relating the need to add leader support, not the need to correct leader management. |
| 14:55 | |hdl| | did you dig into koha-devel ? |
| 14:56 | thd | |hdl|: Should there be a message there about the problem? |
| 14:57 | |hdl| | I saw som messages related to leader management. But is this THE problem you think about... I can't guess. |
| 15:00 | thd | |hdl|: You committed the code to avoid leader management. |
| 15:01 | |hdl| | Ah ! that one. |
| 15:01 | Yes. | |
| 15:02 | thd | |hdl|: Yet you commit so much it is not easy for you to remember every reason. |
| 15:02 | |hdl| | It was sthg quite confusing when using MARCgetitem. |
| 15:03 | And it made me forget about this. | |
| 15:03 | thd | |hdl|: What was confusing? |
| 15:04 | |hdl| | When getting marc record items, there would be a field with no subfield. |
| 15:05 | And every item marc field was supposed to have subfields. | |
| 15:06 | thd | |hdl|: Does Koha not treat control fields as if they had subfield '@'? |
| 15:06 | |hdl| | It does. |
| 15:07 | But remember 000 field was added after code was written. | |
| 15:08 | thd | |hdl|: I understand, but 000 is also not the only control field. |
| 15:09 | |hdl| | ok. |
| 15:09 | Time to leave. | |
| 15:09 | See you. | |
| 15:09 | thd | hd|_away: What is the consequence of your change for a user attempting to use control fields? |
| 15:11 | hd|_away: I will ask you tomorrow, if you have no more seconds. | |
| 15:13 | hdl_away | thd: Normally MARCadditem should not add control fields, afaik, since it is an item and not a biblio. |
| 15:14 | But we ca discuss it tomorrow. | |
| 15:14 | thd | good evening hd|_away |
| 15:15 | hd|_away: You remember the development meeting later today | |
| 15:31 | hdl_away | my activity was focused on acquisitions for 2.2.5 |
| 15:31 | anyway. | |
| 15:39 | thd | hd|_away: I will answer your shipping question tomorrow |
| 15:42 | kados: The wiki website is down. Would you email the meeting agenda to me? | |
| 15:43 | kados | !! |
| 15:44 | I'll just post it here: | |
| 15:44 | PERL_ZOOM UPDATE | |
| 15:44 | list of tasks remaining before perl-zoom is production ready | |
| 15:45 | BORROWERS SUGGESTIONS FROM SAN | |
| 15:45 | brb | |
| 16:14 | Koha meeting coming up | |
| 16:27 | thd | kados: Was that the complete agenda? |
| 16:28 | kados: What are the SAN borrowers suggestions? | |
| 16:33 | chris | morning |
| 16:34 | thd | good morning chris |
| 16:37 | kados | morn chris |
| 16:37 | looks like our wiki's still down | |
| 16:37 | is that being maintaine by Steve Tonnosen? | |
| 16:37 | maintained even? | |
| 16:37 | chris | nope |
| 16:37 | roger buck, in sydney australia | |
| 16:37 | kados | ahh |
| 16:45 | thd | kados: Are you writing a link for the SAN suggestions? |
| 16:45 | kados | yep |
| 16:45 | should be ther enow | |
| 16:49 | http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=meetingagenda | |
| 16:49 | thd | kados: I had noted this before but did not remember the detail to apply to your reference. |
| 16:49 | kados | T-MINUS 15 MINUTES TO KOHA 3.0 MEETING |
| 16:51 | MEETING AGENDA:http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=meetingagenda | |
| 16:56 | thd | kados: Steven F.Baljkas was concerned about how the OPAC MARC view displays records where 650 is repeatable for example but all repeated field names appear only once with each of their respective contents appended. Therefore, in the OPAC MARC view 650 $a 650 $a $x 650 $a $x appears as 650 $a $a $x $a $x which looks as if everything had been dumped into one field and not repeated fields. |
| 16:59 | kados | T-MINUS 3 MINUTES TO KOHA 3.0 MEETING |
| 16:59 | MEETING AGENDA: http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=meetingagenda | |
| 16:59 | thd | kados: This particular aspect is a problem for MARCdetail.pl and opac-MARCdetail.tmpl . |
| 17:00 | kados | thd: if I understand correctly, this will go away in 3.0 |
| 17:01 | thd | kados: yet, it does look very bad for the months before 3.0 is stable even with a complete and valid bibliographic framework. |
| 17:02 | chris | its just a dispaly problem thd? |
| 17:03 | kados | still waiting for paul |
| 17:03 | thd | chris: yes, that particular aspect of the MARC problem is merely about appearance. |
| 17:03 | chris kados: Yet, when appearance is wrong the presumption is that what is underlying is also wrong. | |
| 17:04 | chris | exactly thd |
| 17:04 | we should be able to fix that easily enough | |
| 17:04 | kados | welcome paul |
| 17:04 | paul | hello world |
| 17:04 | kados | ok we have quorum |
| 17:05 | MEETING AGENDA:http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=meetingagenda | |
| 17:05 | russ | hi everyone |
| 17:05 | kados | quick roll call |
| 17:05 | I'm here | |
| 17:05 | paul | hdl phoned me 2 hours ago, he will not be here tonight |
| 17:05 | kados | ok |
| 17:05 | thd | thd: still chasing moving bugs that I already squashed previously. |
| 17:05 | chris | im here for an hour (maybe more) i have a roofing guy coming to look at our roof |
| 17:05 | thd | :) |
| 17:05 | kados | chris: ok |
| 17:06 | paul | good morning chris. |
| 17:06 | kados | so ... first item on the agenda: |
| 17:06 | chris | but trademen turn up whenever they feel like it :) |
| 17:06 | kados | Perl-zoom Update |
| 17:06 | chris: :-) | |
| 17:06 | on the wiki I have listed 'list of tasks remaining' and 'plugin idea for 2.2.6' | |
| 17:06 | perhaps those should be reversed | |
| 17:07 | the plugin idea was this: | |
| 17:07 | as has been started already, make perl-zoom a drop-in replacement for marc* tables in 2.2.5 | |
| 17:08 | so replace Biblio.pm and SearchMarc.pm, run your zebraupdate script, etc. and you're able to run zebra with 2.2.6 | |
| 17:08 | paul | wow !!! great goal, but really foolish i'm afraid |
| 17:08 | because Biblio.pm is NOT ready at all | |
| 17:08 | thd | kados: does that not require too much debugging for 2.26? |
| 17:09 | paul | at no cost I would put any of my customers to zebra for instance ! |
| 17:09 | kados | me either yet |
| 17:09 | paul | nice to read you rach |
| 17:09 | kados | hi rach |
| 17:09 | MEETING AGENDA:http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=meetingagenda | |
| 17:09 | chris | yep thats the plan |
| 17:09 | richard | hi |
| 17:09 | paul | followed by richerd. |
| 17:10 | chris | paul: i successfully acquisitioned a book using Biblio.pm |
| 17:10 | paul | yes, that partially works. But many many things untested yet. |
| 17:10 | chris | thats right |
| 17:10 | paul | believe me, it's far from production-ready |
| 17:11 | deletion => nothing done | |
| 17:11 | chris | yep |
| 17:11 | paul | for example. |
| 17:11 | chris | i agree we cant do it tomorrow :) |
| 17:11 | paul | item add/modify on an existing biblio => un tested yet |
| 17:11 | ... | |
| 17:11 | chris | but i dont think its impossible |
| 17:12 | paul | my goal, as RM for 2.2.x branch, is to be as stable as possible. |
| 17:12 | kados | of course ... and I'm not suggesting that 2.2.6 include zebra |
| 17:12 | paul | I'm strongly against a public release that include zebra in 2.2 branch. |
| 17:12 | kados | I'm simply suggesting that it be an option |
| 17:12 | paul | ah, ok. I was misunderstanding |
| 17:13 | kados | ie, _if_ you want to use perl-zoom it's possible to use with 2.2.6 before 3.0 is ready in some months |
| 17:13 | chris | so you install 2.2.6 for example |
| 17:13 | paul | if you want to have a 2.2.6, + some explanations to add zebra features, then, it may be a good idea |
| 17:13 | kados | yep, that's the plan |
| 17:13 | chris | *nod* that was what we were thinking |
| 17:13 | kados | so the question is: |
| 17:13 | paul | that would be useful to hunt bugs in zebra ;-) |
| 17:13 | chris | maybe even a zebra-installer.pl that you can download |
| 17:13 | kados | what do we need to do wit perl-zoom before it can be used in 2.2.6? |
| 17:14 | ie, what's left/untested? | |
| 17:14 | chris | deletion |
| 17:14 | kados | right, got that |
| 17:14 | item adds/deletions | |
| 17:14 | chris | i havent tried deleting a record from zebra |
| 17:14 | modify works | |
| 17:14 | add works | |
| 17:14 | search works | |
| 17:14 | kados | there's a new routine in Biblio.pm |
| 17:14 | that I committed | |
| 17:14 | paul | collection.abs is fas from complete for UNIMARC. |
| 17:15 | kados | z3950_extended_services |
| 17:15 | thd | kados: Do you mean primarily for reading bibliographic record data but not altering the data there? |
| 17:15 | chris | yes and its far from complete for marc21 too |
| 17:15 | paul | (same thing for marc21 i think) |
| 17:15 | kados | it should be able to handle any extended services action |
| 17:15 | chris | thd might be able to help with the .abs files |
| 17:15 | kados | actually, I think the .abs is ready |
| 17:15 | for marc21 | |
| 17:15 | chris | the collection.abs? |
| 17:15 | paul | kados : I bet it isn't. |
| 17:15 | kados | yep |
| 17:16 | might not be, but I think it should be good for most cases | |
| 17:16 | paul | as you need to explain, for example, that title contains title+ subtitle+ uniform titles... |
| 17:16 | chris | ahh i think he has done that paul |
| 17:16 | kados | yep |
| 17:16 | it's quite complete :-) | |
| 17:17 | there may be some gaps tho | |
| 17:17 | thd | kados: Did you use the MODS mappings? |
| 17:17 | kados | thd: no, the marc21.abs that Sebastian put together with the LOC consultant was the guide |
| 17:17 | paul | it's complete, but only for basic fields. |
| 17:17 | kados | thd++ |
| 17:18 | paul | I mean title/author/subject |
| 17:18 | no ISBN for example | |
| 17:18 | chris | paul, i think if we allow ppl to get it going .. they might be able to help finish it, im thinking of people like steven balkjas etc |
| 17:18 | kados | yep |
| 17:18 | paul | I plan to do the same for UNIMARC, but I'll have to explain collection.abs syntax... |
| 17:19 | chris | right |
| 17:19 | kados | so this brings up another question |
| 17:19 | when do we create the $Zconn object? | |
| 17:19 | Z3950 is stateful | |
| 17:19 | if I'm understanding correctly | |
| 17:19 | chris | i think what we need |
| 17:19 | paul | we should/could do something like C4::Context->dbh |
| 17:19 | chris | is to look at C4::Context |
| 17:19 | heh, great minds think alike paul :-) | |
| 17:19 | kados | :-) |
| 17:20 | but if I"m understanding | |
| 17:20 | correctly ... the $Zconn is even more stateful than dbh | |
| 17:20 | chris | that checks if a connection exists, open one if it doesnt |
| 17:20 | thd | chris: Allowing the customer to finish it has not produced a complete and accurate MARC bibliographic framework that I am writing now for MARC 21 yet. |
| 17:20 | kados | I dont' think there is even a timeout |
| 17:20 | chris | yep |
| 17:20 | but there are lots of reasons you could lose a connection | |
| 17:20 | kados | true ... |
| 17:21 | chris | its always safest to check, and only create if needed |
| 17:21 | kados | ok ... so our list so far: |
| 17:21 | Context->Zconn | |
| 17:21 | deletions | |
| 17:21 | item adds/modifies/deletes | |
| 17:21 | anything else? | |
| 17:21 | paul | (note that this MAY work. but by chance, it's untested yet) |
| 17:21 | .abs improvement | |
| 17:21 | kados | ok |
| 17:22 | how about searching and retrieving results ... where are we at with that? | |
| 17:22 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]-test.pl?cql=joke |
| 17:22 | paul | SearchMarc is poorly tested from my point of view. |
| 17:22 | chris | lets you test your .abs |
| 17:22 | paul | I haven't checked that results were accurate. |
| 17:22 | chris | (if you know what data there is) |
| 17:22 | kados | right |
| 17:22 | paul | I just checked that I got results ;-) |
| 17:22 | chris | paul: im working on that now |
| 17:22 | so far so good, (SearchMarc) that is | |
| 17:22 | kados | I'm assuming that we also need to handle safe updates with Zebra right? |
| 17:23 | thd | kados: what data is in your test? |
| 17:23 | chris | safe updates? |
| 17:23 | kados | zebra can do updates safely or unsafely :-) |
| 17:23 | with safe updates it doesn't commit the changes until you're done and it didn't crash | |
| 17:23 | it's something we need to setup in zebra.cfg and also incorporate into our update routine | |
| 17:24 | chris | right |
| 17:24 | kados | any time we call extended services that is |
| 17:24 | paul | what does zebra means by "you're done" ? |
| 17:24 | connection closed ? | |
| 17:24 | kados | I'm not 100% certain ... |
| 17:24 | paul | a "commit" ? |
| 17:24 | chris | i think a commit |
| 17:24 | kados | yes, commit |
| 17:24 | chris | and you use shadow dbs |
| 17:25 | paul | thus, when do we commit ? |
| 17:25 | chris | so you make changes to a shadow db, when we are done, we commit |
| 17:25 | paul | iiuc, shadow is not to cache updates, but to be sure a search made while updating is safe |
| 17:25 | kados | yep |
| 17:26 | paul | iiuc : search are done on DBA, updates are done on DBB, when finished => search on DBB, update DBA |
| 17:26 | kados | sub z3950_extended_services should be able to handle a 'commit' if handed that operation |
| 17:27 | paul | ok, but when do we decide to handle a "commit" ? |
| 17:27 | can't we ask zebra to auto-commit every 5 seconds, or something like that ? | |
| 17:27 | kados | I think it depends on the operation |
| 17:27 | if you're bulk-importing records, maybe once every 1000 records or when you're done? | |
| 17:28 | if you're just updating a single record ... immediately | |
| 17:28 | chris | i think what we want is |
| 17:28 | eval { do the update }; | |
| 17:28 | paul | OK, sounds good to me |
| 17:28 | chris | if ($@){ |
| 17:28 | some error | |
| 17:28 | } else { | |
| 17:28 | commit | |
| 17:28 | } | |
| 17:28 | kados | hmmm |
| 17:29 | chris | maybe |
| 17:29 | kados | I'm not sure ... you might be right |
| 17:29 | but I thought the commit action was a separate action altogether | |
| 17:29 | it itself is a 'service type' | |
| 17:29 | chris | yep |
| 17:30 | kados | well ... we can try some things out and ask ID if we need to |
| 17:30 | chris | i think you are right |
| 17:30 | kados | anything else before perl-zoom will be ready? |
| 17:30 | paul | not that I think atm |
| 17:30 | chris | marc-detail.pl |
| 17:30 | kados | right |
| 17:31 | chris | itd be nice to be able to pull that right from zebra |
| 17:31 | kados | yep |
| 17:31 | paul | (and isbd-detail.pl) |
| 17:31 | chris | yes |
| 17:31 | kados | yep |
| 17:31 | paul | should require at least 10mn developpment ;-) |
| 17:31 | kados | heh |
| 17:31 | chris | :-) |
| 17:31 | thd | isbd-detail.pl requires the most changes |
| 17:31 | paul | why thd ? |
| 17:31 | kados | so who's got what? guess we should have been keeping track all along |
| 17:32 | paul | I take care of biblio.pm, as usual. |
| 17:32 | chris | thanks paul |
| 17:32 | thd | isbd-detail user settings are backwards |
| 17:32 | kados | thanks paul |
| 17:32 | chris | i will continue on with search |
| 17:32 | paul | that includes MARCgetbiblio, that requires at least 10mn hacking ;-) |
| 17:32 | kados | paul: you might want to use my new routine ... or if not tell me why :-) |
| 17:32 | paul | I also will test modif/deletion... |
| 17:32 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]-detail.pl?bib=10 |
| 17:33 | paul | I'll for sure joshua. They seem quite good. |
| 17:33 | chris | and ill get the marc view and isbd view going |
| 17:33 | paul: we have no prog templates for the opac ;( | |
| 17:33 | thats why you might have seen a commit to the npl ones on the opac side (for my search-test) | |
| 17:33 | paul | ah, you're right. I can't take care of this. I have enough to do with Biblio.pm + Ouest-Provence+ many other things. |
| 17:34 | kados | paul: can't take care of what? |
| 17:34 | paul | (prog opac) |
| 17:34 | kados | paul: prog templates? |
| 17:34 | I'll ask owen | |
| 17:34 | chris | maybe kados can bribe owen with subway sandwiches :) |
| 17:34 | kados | hehe |
| 17:34 | ok, thd and I will work on collection.abs for unimarc and usmarc | |
| 17:35 | russ | kados if owen doesnt have time let me know |
| 17:35 | kados | russ: will do |
| 17:35 | chris | fabulous |
| 17:35 | kados | ok ... shall we move along then |
| 17:35 | UTF-8 problems | |
| 17:35 | chris | i was thinking about this |
| 17:35 | paul | no mail here. no news from tumer since 3 hours ? |
| 17:35 | chris | if we get no joy from the maintainer (or the maintainers boss) |
| 17:35 | kados | none yet :( |
| 17:36 | chris | i wonder, should we patch dbd::mysql ourselves |
| 17:36 | kados | right |
| 17:36 | paul | that would really be a problem for a public release. |
| 17:36 | kados | include it in C4 |
| 17:36 | paul | right, that's what I wanted to add |
| 17:36 | kados | might not be ... if it's in C4 |
| 17:37 | since it will be statically linked | |
| 17:37 | chris | and submit the patch .. and if we still get no joy |
| 17:37 | paul | if we do this, we should NOT request libraries to patch the package themselves |
| 17:37 | kados | (not sure if that's the right term) |
| 17:37 | chris | then dbd::mysql::utf8 |
| 17:37 | kados | right |
| 17:37 | paul | right |
| 17:37 | kados | ok great ... so we all agree |
| 17:37 | shall we move on? | |
| 17:38 | chris | k |
| 17:38 | kados | Koha Tables in 3.0 |
| 17:38 | paul | next question will be harder to have a common agrrement ;) |
| 17:38 | chris | heh |
| 17:38 | kados | paul: :-) |
| 17:38 | thd: good point, this is related to 3.0 holdings suggestions | |
| 17:38 | which is the next item on the agenda | |
| 17:39 | so before we discuss it, any questions about my holdings suggestions? | |
| 17:39 | http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.p[…]oldingssuggestion | |
| 17:40 | the basic idea is, we need a more flexible framework to support multiple tiers of holdings like in standard MARC HOldings | |
| 17:40 | where the hierarchy can be 8 levels deep at least | |
| 17:40 | chris | or as little as 2 |
| 17:40 | kados | right |
| 17:40 | paul | I think the DB scheme is correct. |
| 17:41 | what I don't see for instance is how to handle this in Koha & MARC | |
| 17:41 | kados | so if we create such a framework, we can eliminate all bibliographic data from sql |
| 17:41 | thd | it should have arbitrary depth |
| 17:41 | kados | all we will need is holdings data |
| 17:41 | in mysql | |
| 17:41 | and bib data in zebra | |
| 17:41 | so you have a single record ID | |
| 17:41 | that is a record-level ID | |
| 17:42 | then, in holdings forest table, you can have arbitrarily deep holdings represented | |
| 17:42 | chris | i think what paul is saying is that conceptually its correct, what the hard part is going to be is .. how to we build things like Biblio.pm to handle this |
| 17:42 | kados | agreed |
| 17:43 | paul | chris : ++ |
| 17:43 | kados | I think the MARC frameworks might be a good place to start modeling it |
| 17:43 | ie, build a framework for an 8-level serial record | |
| 17:43 | chris | so we would have frameworks, that describe how the structure works? |
| 17:44 | thd | kados: why would you want a model based on the evil record format? |
| 17:44 | kados | in the specific case, yes |
| 17:44 | or maybe not | |
| 17:44 | thd | kados: why? |
| 17:44 | kados | I haven't fully thought this through |
| 17:44 | but I do know one thing | |
| 17:44 | thd | kados: You have the smarties format |
| 17:44 | kados | many many libraries will not adopt koha until it can handle this kind of holdings data |
| 17:45 | at the very least, we need an underlying framework that can handle it | |
| 17:45 | chris | i think what we need to do |
| 17:45 | kados | even if the default framework is still simple |
| 17:45 | chris | is think some more, and write some pseudo code |
| 17:45 | kados | yep |
| 17:45 | ok ... moving on then | |
| 17:45 | SAN's borrower's suggestions | |
| 17:45 | chris | a high level prototype of how it might work |
| 17:45 | thd | kados: Oh so you mean a framework for the MARC support part/ |
| 17:45 | ? | |
| 17:46 | kados | thd: yea, that's what I meant |
| 17:46 | chris | borrower suggestions? |
| 17:46 | kados | http://lists.gnu.org/archive/h[…]-02/msg00053.html |
| 17:46 | new features for borrowers as paul described | |
| 17:46 | paul | kados : SAN does not exist anymore. It's now only "OUEST PROVENCE" |
| 17:46 | chris | ahh |
| 17:46 | kados | paul: ok ... sorry ... QP then :-) |
| 17:47 | paul | OP, not QP |
| 17:47 | kados | ok :-) |
| 17:47 | paul | OUEST = WEST |
| 17:47 | kados | right |
| 17:47 | chris | you are planning this for 3.0 only paul? |
| 17:47 | paul | yep |
| 17:47 | kados | ok ... I think the proposed changes are definitely an improvement |
| 17:47 | but I worry that they are still not quite extensible enough | |
| 17:47 | thd | paul: What is the reason for an 'O'? |
| 17:48 | paul | O ??? |
| 17:48 | thd | paul: OP |
| 17:48 | kados | for one thing, I think any hard-coded category_types should be removed |
| 17:48 | thd: Ouest Provence | |
| 17:48 | paul | OP = Ouest Provence, the name of the library consortium |
| 17:48 | kados | thd: = OP |
| 17:48 | chris | its french thd :) |
| 17:48 | paul | that is in west from Provence county |
| 17:49 | (not really a county. a "Région" in France. larger than a county) | |
| 17:49 | chris | i think its a good idea |
| 17:49 | paul | in france, we have : communes - département - région - pays |
| 17:50 | thd | kados: go on I will find out why 'O' and not 'Q' later. |
| 17:50 | kados | thd: ok :-) |
| 17:51 | so chris and I discussed creating a 'business logic framework' | |
| 17:51 | paul | kados : I agree that it's a shame to have something hardcoded. |
| 17:51 | but by what could we replace it ? | |
| 17:51 | kados | where you could link a given action with a result |
| 17:51 | based on certain criteria | |
| 17:51 | thd | kados: Hard coded category types that are not set up in advance is certainly doubly problematic in Koha 2 |
| 17:52 | kados | it could be replaced by a hierarchy |
| 17:52 | paul | as usual kados : in theory, it's better. but do we have someone to code this ! |
| 17:52 | kados | heh |
| 17:52 | maybe not in time for 3.0 | |
| 17:53 | thd | I like the extensible reusable shiny forest that can be applied to many problems |
| 17:53 | chris | flexibility, ease of use, speed |
| 17:53 | pick 2 | |
| 17:53 | :) | |
| 17:53 | kados | heh |
| 17:54 | chris | its always a juggling act .. and i think steady progress might be the way to go |
| 17:54 | if we can do a forest for holdings first | |
| 17:54 | thd | chris: ease of use is just a user interface issue |
| 17:54 | kados | right ... so we'll leave branch hierarchies and patron hierarchies out of 3.0 then ... have to draw the line somewhere |
| 17:54 | paul | thd : what can look easy for a user can be a real pain for a developper ! |
| 17:54 | kados | in that case, I'd say OP's ideas are fine |
| 17:55 | chris | and that sentiment is how you end up with things as horribly ugly as a lot of the ILS's out there :) |
| 17:55 | kados | heh |
| 17:55 | chris | yep, i think one hard thing at a time :-) |
| 17:55 | kados | right |
| 17:55 | ok ... anything else to discuss? | |
| 17:55 | chris | i like OP's ideas i think its a big improvement |
| 17:55 | paul | I think the real main improvement is : |
| 17:55 | chris | russ had something |
| 17:55 | paul | borrowers table cleaning ! |
| 17:55 | thd | paul: yes, ease of use for user in a flexible design is very much work for the programmer. |
| 17:55 | kados | paul: right! |
| 17:56 | paul | because for instance, this table is really an "inventaire à la prévert" |
| 17:56 | russ | oh i just wanted to let paul know that we have got the go ahead for our serials module |
| 17:56 | so we are ploughing into that this week | |
| 17:56 | kados | russ: congrats! wohoo! |
| 17:56 | paul | great. |
| 17:56 | thd | paul: but if it is flexible enough you have the opportunity to reuse the code in more places. |
| 17:56 | paul | you should reach hdl also and explain what you'll do to us. |
| 17:56 | russ | yep - shame he couldnt be here today |
| 17:57 | paul | iirc, he already has commited some code to have serial items created on the fly |
| 17:57 | it's in 2.2 cvs | |
| 17:57 | chris | excellent |
| 17:57 | russ | great |
| 17:58 | paul | http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org[…]=koha&view=markup |
| 17:58 | yes, it's commited | |
| 17:58 | russ | perhaps we can make a time a little later to show you guys |
| 17:58 | cool | |
| 17:58 | paul | &serialsitemize |
| 17:59 | under documented i'm afraid. | |
| 17:59 | you can bug him | |
| 17:59 | russ | sweet - i'll drop you a line in a day or two once we have some stuff to "show and tell" |
| 17:59 | paul | (he's my employee, so I let you kick him if you want ;-) ) |
| 17:59 | chris | hehe |
| 17:59 | kados | heh |
| 18:00 | russ | i have pretty big feet - so i don't think that should be encouraged :-) |
| 18:00 | kados | anything else to discuss for our meeting? |
| 18:00 | paul | a last note |
| 18:00 | kados | sure |
| 18:00 | paul | I plan to work on late issues this week |
| 18:00 | kados | late issues? |
| 18:00 | for serials? | |
| 18:01 | right ... someone needs to bug roger | |
| 18:01 | paul | defining 3 levels of late issues warnings to borrowers. |
| 18:01 | thd | paul: where is changeable subfiled order for the record editor for 2.26? |
| 18:01 | paul | ??? |
| 18:02 | chris | ahh overdues paul? |
| 18:02 | paul | right |
| 18:02 | kados | paul: keep in mind that some of us use fines as well |
| 18:02 | chris | cool that sounds good |
| 18:02 | paul | for each branch/borrowercategory, you can define on 3 levels of "letters", depending on how late the books are. |
| 18:02 | kados | very cool |
| 18:02 | paul | plus a flag to debarr the borrower |
| 18:02 | kados | nice |
| 18:03 | chris | right, if we can get it to put fines too |
| 18:03 | that would rule | |
| 18:03 | kados | yea, that kind of flexibility is something some of my clients have asked about |
| 18:03 | chris | at hlt we have a field called preferred contact |
| 18:03 | paul | me too. And It's not funded, but i have some time, so I'll do |
| 18:03 | kados | paul++ |
| 18:03 | chris | which is used when sending out overdue notices |
| 18:04 | if its email, koha will email the person the notice | |
| 18:04 | kados | right ... npl has a similar function |
| 18:04 | chris | would that be able to be added to yours paul? |
| 18:04 | paul | it's a field in borrowers table isn't it ? |
| 18:04 | chris | yes |
| 18:04 | paul | it is already in the table isn't it ? |
| 18:04 | kados | yep |
| 18:04 | chris | yep |
| 18:04 | just need the code to use it | |
| 18:04 | paul | I'm not sure I already use it, but i'll take care of it. |
| 18:05 | chris | cool |
| 18:05 | kados | thx paul |
| 18:05 | any other news? | |
| 18:05 | paul | the idea being to use : preferred email 1st, then any other mail available, am I right ? |
| 18:05 | chris | thats right |
| 18:05 | kados | I'll get the minutes out later today, read you all next week ... /me has a cold and must take a short nap |
| 18:05 | paul | ok, have a good day. |
| 18:06 | kados | ciao all |
| 18:06 | russ | bye |
| 18:06 | paul | i'll try to have a good night ;-) |
| 18:06 | chris | cya kados |
| 18:06 | night paul | |
| 18:06 | thd | paul: are you still here? |
| 18:06 | paul | microsoft ad on TV ;-) |
| 18:07 | thd | paul: where do I modify code for the following change? |
| 18:07 | paul: the OPAC MARC view displays records where 650 is repeatable for example but all repeated field names appear only once with each of their respective contents appended. Therefore, in the OPAC MARC view 650 $a 650 $a $x 650 $a $x appears as 650 $a $a $x $a $x which looks as if everything had been dumped into one field and not repeated fields. | |
| 18:10 | paul: Can the change be done in MARCdetail.pl only without touching opac-MARCdetail.tmpl ? | |
| 18:12 | paul: maybe you are now paul_away. | |
| 18:12 | paul | (no, speaking with russ) |
| 18:15 | thd : i'm afraid you can't | |
| 18:15 | thd | paul: Is it really not correctable? |
| 18:15 | paul | it wasn't the behaviour some versions ago. |
| 18:16 | fields were repeated. some libnraries thought it was too much info | |
| 18:16 | and I decided to clean the screen. | |
| 18:16 | but I agree it's not a perfect solution | |
| 18:16 | we just have a larger space between fields | |
| 18:19 | thd | paul: I understand that it is not the current behaviour yet how could I change for libraries that think it is showing a defect. |
| 18:19 | paul: I am trying to change this now. | |
| 18:20 | paul | MARCdetail.pl |
| 18:20 | line 174-177 | |
| 18:20 | comment those lines | |
| 18:21 | mmm... not sure, that may be for subfields | |
| 18:22 | thd | paul Are those lines for rel_2_2 or HEAD? |
| 18:22 | paul | 2.2 |
| 18:22 | if ($#subfields_data==0) { | |
| 18:22 | $subfields_data[0]->{marc_lib}=''; | |
| 18:22 | $subfields_data[0]->{marc_subfield}=''; | |
| 18:22 | } | |
| 18:22 | line 181 | |
| 18:22 | $tag_data{tag}=""; | |
| 18:23 | comment it as well as the if { } else {} | |
| 18:23 | (just let : | |
| 18:23 | if (C4::Context->preference('hide_marc')) { | |
| 18:23 | $tag_data{tag}=$tagslib->{$fields[$x_i]->tag()}->{lib}; | |
| 18:23 | } else { | |
| 18:23 | $tag_data{tag}=$fields[$x_i]->tag().' -'. $tagslib->{$fields[$x_i]->tag()}->{lib}; | |
| 18:23 | } | |
| 18:23 | that should work | |
| 18:23 | (I agree it's highly undedocumented) | |
| 18:28 | thd | paul: that code could certainly use a little comment :) |
| 18:34 | paul | ok, bye bye everybody, goin to bed |
| 18:35 | thd | good evening paul_away |
| 18:35 | thank you paul_away | |
| 19:47 | kados | thd-away: did you and paul fix what was being complained about? |
| 20:02 | chris | or if thd is about |
| 20:23 | mason | have i hung the cvs server? |
| 20:23 | chris | no |
| 20:24 | mason | oops, wrong channel |
| 20:43 | kados | chris: I'm back |
| 20:43 | chris: was feeling a bit feverish earlier | |
| 20:43 | but doing better now | |
| 20:43 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]Cdetail.pl?bib=29 |
| 20:43 | fetching from zebra now | |
| 20:43 | kados | nice! |
| 20:44 | looks like you've got item details too | |
| 20:44 | chris | i wonder if while i was doing it i fixed thd's problem |
| 20:44 | yeah that all gets stuck in zebra by the import | |
| 20:45 | its using my get_record() | |
| 20:45 | kados | not sure what the problem was exactly |
| 20:45 | chris | you give it a biblionumber |
| 20:45 | and it gives you a marc record | |
| 20:45 | kados | if it was listing a 650 a x a x as 650 a x 650 a x then the answer's no |
| 20:45 | nice | |
| 20:46 | chris | ahh it was doing the opposite, lemme show ya |
| 20:46 | kados | cool |
| 20:46 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]Cdetail.pl?bib=29 |
| 20:46 | thats what it was doing | |
| 20:46 | kados | ahh ... right |
| 20:47 | nice job then! | |
| 20:47 | chris | but im not sure if thats what he wanted, he'll read the logs i guess |
| 20:47 | kados | seems fairly easy to develop with zoom :-) |
| 20:47 | yep | |
| 20:47 | chris | yeah |
| 20:47 | with marc anyway | |
| 20:47 | kados | chris: so we forgot to discuss the need to updatedatabase |
| 20:47 | chris: for the perl-zoom plugin | |
| 20:48 | I spoke to paul about it yesterday | |
| 20:48 | apparantly there is quite a bit of stuff in rel_2_2 updatedatabase that's been removed in head | |
| 20:48 | I'm not familiar enough with cvs diff and patch to know how best to merge the right changes | |
| 20:49 | what I _think_ I want to do | |
| 20:49 | chris | right |
| 20:50 | kados | is merge in just the perl-zoom stuff |
| 20:50 | not sure if i need updatedatabase to update mysql to utf-8 | |
| 20:50 | or innodb | |
| 20:50 | chris | right i think leave those for 3.0 |
| 20:50 | kados | so zebra.cfg will have to not use utf-8 then |
| 20:50 | for that plugin | |
| 20:51 | chris | right |
| 20:55 | kados | http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org[…]nly_with_tag=MAIN |
| 20:55 | from paul's notes, it looks like the marcxml column | |
| 20:55 | is related to utf-8 changes | |
| 20:55 | chris | ahh |
| 20:56 | kados | looks like the two important commits |
| 20:56 | are 1.120 and 1.125 | |
| 20:58 | chris | yeah those are the 2 big ones |
| 21:00 | ok, http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]Ddetail.pl?bib=29 | |
| 21:00 | how do you set up isbd stuff? | |
| 21:01 | kados | just nab it from koha.liblime.com |
| 21:01 | in preferences | |
| 21:01 | catalog tab | |
| 21:01 | http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…].pl?tab=Catalogue | |
| 21:02 | though I agree that's thd's extreme example :-) | |
| 21:02 | chris | :) |
| 21:03 | kados | I asked on koha-zebra about commit and $Zconn |
| 21:05 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]Ddetail.pl?bib=29 |
| 21:05 | using get_record too now | |
| 21:05 | kados | nice! |
| 21:12 | chris | right theres a bunch of commits |
| 21:12 | time for some food | |
| 21:12 | kados | cool |
| 21:33 | chris: when you get back from lunch, if you have time, could you walk me through the process of syncing updatedatabase so I can start doing QA on the perl-zoom plugin? | |
| 21:48 | chris | hmm |
| 21:48 | i think what we need to do is figure out what changes we need | |
| 21:49 | i think the main one is adding the marcxml column | |
| 21:50 | and then make a copy of the 2.2 updatedatabase | |
| 21:50 | that does the making marcxml as well | |
| 21:54 | kados | right |
| 22:40 | chris | sleep well |
| 23:34 | thd | chris: If you are going to be revising the ISBD Perl script for Zebra, you should understand how ISBD for Koha 2 is backwards. |
| 23:35 | chris: are you there? | |
| 23:35 | chris | yep |
| 23:35 | wasnt planning on revising it yet | |
| 23:35 | all i have done is make it fetch the data from zebra using zoom | |
| 23:35 | rather than from mysql | |
| 23:36 | thd | chris: For future reference then |
| 23:37 | chris: In Koha 2, the ISBD configuration file tells Koha what to return from the record. | |
| 23:37 | chris | right |
| 23:38 | thd | chris: In Koha 3 the record should provide the information about what to return while the configuration merely provides placement and joining punctuation. |
| 23:39 | chris | k |
| 23:39 | so each record has isbd information stored with it? | |
| 23:42 | thd | chris: The problem with Koha 2 leads to 260 $a $b $a $b $c being represented as 260 $a $a $b $b $c. |
| 23:42 | chris: MARC records do not have ISBD information. | |
| 23:43 | chris | so if you have marc records, you cant display them in ISBD format? |
| 23:43 | in koha 3? | |
| 23:43 | thd | chris: MARC records have subfield order information. |
| 23:43 | chris | ahh so you only use ISBD if you dont use MARC? |
| 23:44 | thd | chris: actually, that order information always was in Koha 2 but usually ignored. |
| 23:44 | chris | k |
| 23:44 | oh while you are here | |
| 23:45 | thd | chris: The problem is that the Koha 2 ISBD configuration actually specified the order of subfields instead of reading the order from the record. |
| 23:45 | chris | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]RCdetail.pl?bib=4 has that fixed the problem you were having with 650? |
| 23:46 | thd: ahhh i get it now | |
| 23:46 | that makes sense | |
| 23:47 | thd | chris: ISBD display is to put some parts of the record in the correct place with correct joining punctuation. |
| 23:47 | chris | right |
| 23:48 | thd | chris: ISBD have a different order for the placement of the general parts of the record and what parts are important. |
| 23:48 | chris | ok |
| 23:50 | thd | chris: ISBD is much more of a standard for the traditional representation that used to appear on printed cards in the catalogue. |
| 23:50 | chris | yeah just looking at |
| 23:50 | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]BDdetail.pl?bib=4 | |
| 23:50 | it does look very much like the old cards | |
| 23:50 | do libraries usually define their own? | |
| 23:50 | or use a standard layout? | |
| 23:52 | thd | chris: kados has found that as an easy user modifiable configuration his libraries liked to use it themselves to create a custom display. |
| 23:52 | chris | yeah i can see that that would be desirable |
| 23:53 | thd | chris: There should be something else for that purpose such as preferences for the detail view controlled by a framework. |
| 23:54 | chris: No need to have an ISBD display that does not follow the ISBD rules. | |
| 23:54 | chris | true |
| 23:54 | itd be nice to be able to create lots of views | |
| 23:55 | like you can create frameworks | |
| 23:55 | you could have a kids view | |
| 23:55 | thd | chris: That was merely the most accessible for librarians who might not have access to do more on the web services that kados provides. |
| 23:55 | chris | that they could choose .. or a dvd view which shows the info relevant to do dvds |
| 23:55 | etc | |
| 23:57 | thd | chris: The users like to be able to change things themselves without asking a programmer/template designer to change a template. |
| 23:57 | chris | yep |
| 23:58 | thd | chris: your MARC example fixed the MARC problem. However, there may be a problem with committing that code. |
| 00:00 | chris: That had been the original form of the MARC view. Paul changed it after his libraries complained that repeating the field name was verbose. | |
| 00:00 | chris | ahh right |
| 00:00 | thd | chris: kados has the opposite problem from his customers. |
| 00:01 | chris: Or prospective customers. | |
| 00:02 | chris: A preference to choose between economical and verbose format is needed. | |
| 00:03 | chris | it was just commenting out some lines so i wont commit the fix in 2.2 |
| 00:04 | thd | chris: paul does acknowledge that even the economical form should have extra space between repeated subfields so as not to confuse all the subfields as collectively belonging to the same individual field.. |
| 00:04 | chris | hmmm i should increase that timeout limit |
| 00:05 | thd | chris: There should probably also be an alternate very compact non-descriptive view with only the codes and no semantic labels. |
| 00:05 | chris | there 5 minutes instead now |
| 00:06 | yep, that should be much easier with zebra | |
| 00:08 | thd | chris: Only the codes is the traditional MARC view for librarians who think that it is not a real library system unless it has a view that is as difficult to interpret as possible. |
| 00:08 | chris | :-) |
| 00:08 | lets give them the codes in roman numerals :-) | |
| 00:08 | thd | chris: I set my timeout to 24 hours. |
| 00:09 | Romans were all fine librarians. :) | |
| 00:15 | chris: something else about ISBD. Even I cheated the ISBD standard in my complete MARC 21 Koha 2 ISBD configuration in a small way as a concession to readability with newlines for subjects that should probably be inline according to the standard. | |
| 00:15 | chris | ah ok |
| 00:18 | thd | chris: It is a small amendment if someone wants it to be more difficult to read on a computer screen where there is less control over presentation than on a printed card for which the format was devised. |
| 00:19 | chris | someone probably will :) |
| 00:26 | thd | chris: ISBD is not a record exchange format where adaptation to the display medium will break its function. A better ISBD configuration syntax would not need cheating for readability.. |
| 00:26 | chris | right |
| 00:35 | thd | chris: If you do not commit the opac-MARCdetail.pl changes to rel_2_2 without taking the time to set up a user preference, will you commit it to HEAD or email it to koha at agogme.com ? |
| 00:37 | chris | its committed to head |
| 00:38 | the commenting out at the bottom is what i changed | |
| 00:38 | thd | thanks chris |
| 03:49 | chris: I do not find any change committed in CVS HEAD to koha/catalogue/MARCdetail.pl since paul's "moving catalogue views to catalogue directory" over 4 weeks ago. | |
| 03:51 | chris: Did you commit a change for MARCdetail.pl to HEAD in another location or did I misunderstand? | |
| 03:56 | chris | no i only committed it to opac-MARCdetail.pl |
| 03:57 | the same changes could be replicated to MARCdetail.pl easily enough though | |
| 03:57 | theres just an if commented out | |
| 03:58 | thd | chis: I see you added a new file name? |
| 03:58 | chris | i did? |
| 03:59 | opac/opac-MARCdetail.pl is what i changed | |
| 03:59 | thd | chris: opac-MARCdetail.pl did not exist before only MARCdetail.pl unless I am mistaken. |
| 04:00 | chris | you are mistaken :) |
| 04:00 | its for the opac | |
| 04:00 | not the intranet | |
| 04:00 | its up to revision 1.11 in head | |
| 04:00 | thd | chris: I had the right name before as I used it. |
| 04:01 | chris | in that file |
| 04:01 | lines 152, 153, 154 and 156 | |
| 04:02 | are the lines i commented out, to make the fix | |
| 04:02 | the other changes are to do with zebra, so you dont want them for 2.2 | |
| 04:04 | thd | chris: I had not thought clearly about whether the OPAC and the intranet would need different Perl files for comparable functions. |
| 04:05 | chris | well all the code should actually be in a module |
| 04:06 | the scripts should only be very minimal | |
| 04:06 | but we have more than enough to do, without refactoring too :) | |
| 04:07 | thd | chris: A module would be better with more comments in the code but no need to break everything at once. |
| 04:09 | chris | yep |
| 04:10 | thd | chris: I wish the squashed bugs would stay dead though. I see behaviour change reintroducing them in different places. |
| 04:11 | chris | bummer |
| 05:15 | osmoze | hello |
| 05:48 | thd | hello osmoze |
| 06:18 | chris | evening paul and osmoze |
| 06:19 | paul | hello chris. |
| 06:19 | (just answering russ email about kohaCon) | |
| 06:19 | chris | cool |
| 06:19 | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]RCdetail.pl?bib=4 | |
| 06:19 | and | |
| 06:19 | http://opac.koha3.katipo.co.nz[…]BDdetail.pl?bib=4 | |
| 06:20 | fetching the data from zebra now | |
| 06:20 | (running under apache2 and mod_perl2 as well) | |
| 06:21 | took me a while to understand the pqf file | |
| 06:21 | but i think i understand it now | |
| 06:22 | i added | |
| 06:23 | index.dc.identifier = 1=1007 | |
| 06:23 | paul | I saw the commit |
| 06:24 | chris | because i saw in bib1.att |
| 06:24 | paul | but still unclear what it means :-( |
| 06:24 | dc = dublin core ? | |
| 06:24 | chris | att 1007 Identifier-standard |
| 06:24 | yes | |
| 06:24 | paul | what do we deal with dublin core here ? |
| 06:24 | chris | and in our collection.abs |
| 06:24 | we have | |
| 06:25 | melm 090$c identifier-standard,identifier-standard:p | |
| 06:25 | so now i can go | |
| 06:25 | "identifier=$biblionumber" | |
| 06:25 | paul | what is strange to me is bib1 and dublin core is not the same thing. |
| 06:25 | right chris. | |
| 06:25 | chris | and it looks in 090c |
| 06:25 | kinda tricky | |
| 06:26 | took me quite a long time to figure it out | |
| 06:26 | paul | indexdata doc is very large, but not always easy to understand. |
| 06:26 | chris | yes |
| 06:26 | i agree | |
| 06:26 | paul | something else : |
| 06:26 | about utf8 : someone on a french perl mailing list told me that everything works well with http://search.cpan.org/~oyama/[…]SQL-0.08/MySQL.pm. | |
| 06:26 | http://search.cpan.org/~oyama/[…]P-0.04/mysqlPP.pm | |
| 06:26 | (both required) | |
| 06:26 | but I get a : | |
| 06:27 | DBI connect('database=head;host=127.0.0.1;port=3306','root',...) failed: Couldn't connect to 127.0.0.1:3306/tcp: IO::Socket::INET: connect: Connection refused at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.7/DBD/mysqlPP.pm line 109, referer: http://127.0.0.1/index_perso | |
| 06:27 | chris | hmmm |
| 06:27 | paul | any idea why such a message occurs ? |
| 06:27 | [client] | |
| 06:27 | port=3306 | |
| 06:27 | socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock | |
| 06:27 | is my my.cnf | |
| 06:27 | chris | you can connect to it from the command line |
| 06:28 | paul | why ? |
| 06:28 | (how) | |
| 06:28 | chris | sorry i mean can you? |
| 06:28 | eg | |
| 06:28 | paul | no, me sorry ;-) |
| 06:28 | chris | mysql -uroot -ppassword -h127.0.0.1 head |
| 06:29 | paul | of course I can. |
| 06:29 | chris | so its definitely listening on that port then |
| 06:29 | hhmmm | |
| 06:29 | paul | right |
| 06:29 | i cant in fact | |
| 06:29 | mysql -uroot -ppassword head | |
| 06:29 | is OK | |
| 06:29 | chris | telnet localhost 3306 |
| 06:29 | paul | but -h127.0.0.1 isn't |
| 06:30 | chris | it might be only listening on unix sockets |
| 06:30 | paul | telnet => KO |
| 06:30 | seems he listens only unix sockets. | |
| 06:30 | chris | right |
| 06:30 | check my.cnf | |
| 06:30 | there might be skip-networking | |
| 06:30 | if so, you can comment it out | |
| 06:31 | paul | no, there is none |
| 06:31 | chris | hmmm |
| 06:31 | paul | but show variables tells me |
| 06:31 | chris | ohh bind-address ? |
| 06:31 | paul | skip networking = ON |
| 06:32 | chris | ahh, so somehow we have to switch that off |
| 06:37 | hi hdl | |
| 06:38 | paul | chris : i don't see how to switch skip-networking off |
| 06:42 | chris | hmm in the my.cnf |
| 06:42 | is there a bind-address bit? | |
| 06:42 | you could try | |
| 06:42 | bind-address = 127.0.0.1 | |
| 06:42 | and see if that works | |
| 06:44 | paul | [paulbureau ~]$ mysql -uroot -h127.0.0.1 -p head |
| 06:44 | Enter password: | |
| 06:44 | ERROR 2003 (HY000): Can't connect to MySQL server on '127.0.0.1' (111) | |
| 06:44 | :-( | |
| 06:44 | chris | darn |
| 06:45 | what version of mysql paul? | |
| 06:45 | paul | 4.1.12 |
| 06:47 | chris | and the script that starts it ... /etc/init.d/mysql (or whatever) doesnt have --skip-networking as an option? |
| 06:49 | paul | it don't seems |
| 06:50 | chris | its a puzzle |
| 06:51 | osmoze | Paul, si tu commentes skip-networking et redemarre, ca donne quoi ? |
| 06:52 | (dans my.cnf) | |
| 06:52 | paul | skip_networking is ON by default osmoze |
| 06:52 | mysql don't restart if I add skip_networking=OFF | |
| 06:53 | osmoze | moi j ai pas de skip_networking mais juste un bind adress, si tu le commentes juste |
| 06:54 | dans ma conf : | |
| 06:54 | # Instead of skip-networking the default is now to listen only on | |
| 06:54 | # localhost which is more compatible and is not less secure. | |
| 06:54 | bind-address = 127.0.0.1 | |
| 06:55 | chris | yeah thats what is in my conf also |
| 06:55 | osmoze | so i have no skip_networking |
| 06:55 | chris | thats 4.0.24 |
| 06:55 | paul | in [mysqld] |
| 06:55 | section | |
| 06:55 | ? | |
| 06:56 | osmoze | yes chris, i ve the same |
| 06:56 | chris | yes |
| 06:57 | paul | here is my complete my.cnf : |
| 06:57 | [client] | |
| 06:57 | port=3306 | |
| 06:57 | socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock | |
| 06:57 | [mysqld] | |
| 06:57 | datadir=/var/lib/mysql | |
| 06:57 | socket=/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock | |
| 06:57 | port=3306 | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = key_buffer=64M | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = max_allowed_packet=1M | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = table_cache=256 | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = sort_buffer=8M | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = record_buffer=2M | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = myisam_sort_buffer_size=64M | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = thread_cache=8 | |
| 06:57 | set-variable = sort_buffer_size=16M | |
| 06:57 | #skip_networking=OFF | |
| 06:57 | bind-address = 127.0.0.1 | |
| 06:57 | #set-variable = default-character-set=utf8 | |
| 06:57 | #default-character-set=utf8 | |
| 06:57 | # Default to using old password format for compatibility with old and | |
| 06:57 | # shorter password hash. | |
| 06:57 | # Reference: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql[…]word_hashing.html | |
| 06:57 | old_passwords=1 | |
| 06:57 | [mysql.server] | |
| 06:57 | user=mysql | |
| 06:57 | basedir=/var/lib | |
| 06:57 | [mysqld_safe] | |
| 06:57 | err-log=/var/log/mysqld/mysqld.log | |
| 06:57 | pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid | |
| 06:57 | ===== | |
| 06:57 | done | |
| 06:57 | and still skip-networking=ON | |
| 06:58 | (and no connection through -h127.0.01 | |
| 06:58 | ) | |
| 06:58 | chris | hmmm |
| 06:58 | thats /etc/mysql/my.cnf right? | |
| 06:58 | paul | it's /etc/my.cnf for me |
| 06:59 | chris | is there anything in /var/lib/mysql ? |
| 06:59 | another my.cnf there? | |
| 06:59 | paul | a /var/lib/mysql/my.cnf ? no |
| 07:00 | chris | what does ps axf | grep "mysql" |
| 07:00 | say | |
| 07:00 | i get | |
| 07:00 | paul | confused |
| 07:00 | 410 pts/6 S 0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --defaults-file=/etc/my.cnf --skip-networking --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid | |
| 07:00 | ... | |
| 07:00 | chris | /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid --skip-locking --port=3306 --socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock |
| 07:00 | right | |
| 07:00 | paul | who adds the --skip-networking |
| 07:00 | ? | |
| 07:00 | chris | good question |
| 07:01 | what distro do you use? | |
| 07:01 | paul | mandriva 2006 |
| 07:01 | chris | hmm, dont know much about that sorry |
| 07:01 | in debian we have /etc/default/ | |
| 07:02 | which sometimes has configuration in it | |
| 07:02 | paul | in /etc/rc.d/init.d/mysqld, I see : |
| 07:03 | /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --defaults-file=/etc/my.cnf \ | |
| 07:03 | ${MYSQLD_OPTIONS:-""} \ | |
| 07:03 | --pid-file="${mypidfile}" >/dev/null 2>&1 & | |
| 07:03 | MYSQLD_OPTIONS should be the culprit | |
| 07:03 | chris | looks like it |
| 07:03 | paul | few lines before, there is : |
| 07:03 | get_mysql_option /etc/my.cnf datadir "/var/lib/mysql" | |
| 07:03 | mmm... no, that's not it. | |
| 07:04 | how to find who fills MYSQLD_OPTIONS ? | |
| 07:04 | chris | cd /etc |
| 07:04 | grep "MYSQLD_OPTIONS" -r * | |
| 07:04 | maybe | |
| 07:05 | that might work too :) | |
| 07:07 | paul | sysconfig/mysqld:# (oe) Remove --skip-networking to enable network access from |
| 07:07 | sysconfig/mysqld:MYSQLD_OPTIONS="--skip-networking" | |
| 07:07 | chris | ah ha |
| 07:07 | good detective work | |
| 07:07 | theres a trap for beginners | |
| 07:07 | paul | yep. |
| 07:08 | osmoze | so it's good if you comment it ? |
| 07:08 | paul | ok, skip networking is now OFF |
| 07:08 | checking connection | |
| 07:09 | Trying 127.0.0.1... | |
| 07:09 | Connected to bureau.paulpoulain.com (127.0.0.1). | |
| 07:09 | Escape character is '^]'. | |
| 07:09 | 4 | |
| 07:09 | 4.1.12Gr,"bL4`,dXk3XD*CSXB" | |
| 07:09 | chris | that looks more like it |
| 07:11 | paul | gotcha ! many thanks |
| 07:11 | (the last problem was one with 127.0.0.1 and localhost, easy and already encountered many times ;-) ) | |
| 07:12 | chris | :-) |
| 07:12 | paul | hoping this mysqlPP will solve my utf8 problems ;-) |
| 07:12 | otherwise, we are loosing our time | |
| 07:13 | chris | but now, i must go to bed |
| 07:13 | good luck | |
| 07:13 | paul | good night. |
| 07:13 | i'll let you know any success or failure | |
| 07:13 | osmoze | good night chris |
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