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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:12 | hdl | thd. hi. |
| 12:13 | I found a bulkauthimport.pl in misc But I never used it. | |
| 12:13 | For authorities import. | |
| 12:18 | kados____ | thd: are you around? |
| 14:08 | thd | kados____: I am around now |
| 14:13 | hdl: I will speculate before looking that bulkauthimport.pl is not for MARC authorities. | |
| 14:16 | hdl: well I would be wrong | |
| 14:24 | hdl: bulkauthimport.pl is just what I was looking for but it is UNIMARC only for now. | |
| 14:35 | hdl: Now I remember why bulkauthimport.pl does not do MARC authorities (or anything else). It does not work in version 2.2.2 and presumably 2.2.3 unless Paul or someone has fixed it. | |
| 17:20 | russ | hi |
| 17:21 | thd | hello russ |
| 17:21 | russ | hi thd |
| 17:23 | thd | russ: Do not panic yet I will still have a fine feature list before your final deadline. I stayed up all night last night working on it. |
| 17:23 | russ | thd: excellent news |
| 17:24 | thd | russ: The trouble has been that to write it well I have had to examine parts of Koha that I had only glanced at before. |
| 17:25 | russ: Most of the work has gone into examination of those parts of Koha that I have not seen before. | |
| 17:26 | russ: Does Katipo have multi-branch libraries? | |
| 17:27 | chris | certainly does |
| 17:27 | hlt has 3 (well sort of four) branches | |
| 17:27 | rangitikei has 4 | |
| 17:28 | thd | chris: What means is used to transfer material between branches within Koha when a patron at one branch requests an item held at another branch? |
| 17:30 | chris | irc a lot of the time |
| 17:31 | and you can use branch transfers | |
| 17:31 | basically a bunch of books are bunched up and couriered/sent to the branch | |
| 17:32 | and you can use branch transfers to change their holdingbranch to where they are going when you put them in the box | |
| 17:32 | thd | chris: Where are branch transfers supported within Koha? |
| 17:32 | chris | circulation |
| 17:32 | there are three options, issues, returns, branch transfers | |
| 17:33 | /cgi-bin/koha/circ/branchtransfers.pl | |
| 17:33 | thd | chris: I need to look more closely, I have been rushing a bit and missing the obvious in a few cases :) |
| 17:34 | chris | :) |
| 17:37 | thd | chris: When an order is confirmed in acquisitions, does the supplier receive an automatic message with the order by email? |
| 17:38 | chris | no |
| 17:39 | thd | chris: Well EDI would be a better means to manage order messages in any case. Some ways off for Koha yet though. |
| 17:39 | chris | yeah and its not functionality hlt wanted |
| 17:39 | (emailing the supplier) | |
| 17:40 | thd | chris: How does HLT communicate orders to the supplier? |
| 17:41 | chris | i dont know |
| 17:41 | i suspect snail mail | |
| 17:41 | thd | :O |
| 17:41 | chris | must nz suppliers would probably go mental if you sent them an email order |
| 17:41 | must=most | |
| 17:42 | thd | chris: what about EDI in NZ? |
| 17:42 | chris | i get the impression that often orders have no real bearing on what you receive as well |
| 17:42 | no idea | |
| 17:43 | thd | chris: Koha handles the no real bearing part rather well. Very thoughtful of you. |
| 17:43 | chris | we arent really a prime market .. total population of 4 million and all ... we are lucky we get books at all :-) |
| 17:44 | thd | chris: Too many of the have to travel the oceans to come from their original publisher ;) |
| 17:44 | chris | yep |
| 17:47 | thd | chris: Koha tracks the order receipt and overdue orders but what does it do for tracking the issuing of payments to the supplier? |
| 17:48 | chris | nothing |
| 17:48 | it leaves that up to their accounting package | |
| 17:49 | thd | chris: It would be nice if that accounting package were tied into Koha. |
| 17:49 | chris | sure would |
| 17:50 | pretty hard to do though .. well in a general way | |
| 17:52 | thd | chris: with an API and/or GPL SQL-Ledger. |
| 17:52 | chris | yep thatd be fine |
| 17:52 | but ive yet to bump into a library running sql-ledger | |
| 17:53 | or have an accounting system with a documented API | |
| 17:53 | thd | chris: We have to pave the way with Koha at some point. |
| 17:53 | chris | most libraries in NZ anyway (hlt is an exception) are owned/run by the city council |
| 17:54 | and they just have to use the accounting package they are told to | |
| 17:54 | kados____ | morning chris |
| 17:54 | chris | sure thd, its just low on my priority list :-) |
| 17:54 | kados____ | could you fix my nick? |
| 17:54 | :-) | |
| 17:54 | chris | you can |
| 17:54 | type | |
| 17:54 | /nick kados | |
| 17:54 | kados____ | tried that |
| 17:54 | kados is already in use | |
| 17:55 | chris | ahh well you need to find that process and kill it |
| 17:55 | type | |
| 17:55 | /whois kados | |
| 17:55 | you are connected to irc twice :) | |
| 17:56 | kados____ | hmmm ... I've been experimenting with using irssi to connect to multiple servers and channels |
| 17:56 | chris | yeah i think youve connected to this server twice :) |
| 17:56 | thd | chris: The other is an invisible ghost :) |
| 17:56 | chris | actually hes connected 4 times |
| 17:56 | kados, kados_ kados__ kados___ | |
| 17:57 | they are just lurking, in no channels | |
| 17:57 | kados, you have a few other clones too | |
| 17:57 | kados | weird |
| 17:57 | where are they? | |
| 17:57 | chris | not in any channels |
| 17:57 | kados | I don't see them on /who |
| 17:57 | chris | you wont |
| 17:57 | cos they arent in a # | |
| 17:58 | do a /whois kados_ | |
| 17:58 | and /whois kados__ | |
| 17:58 | kados | shoot |
| 17:58 | chris | :) |
| 17:58 | kados | is there some way to kill a nick? |
| 17:59 | chris | nope |
| 17:59 | kados | so I'm stuck with the clones? |
| 17:59 | thd | kados: They may have been started as part of a reconnection script when the Katipo IRC server lost communication outside New Zealand last night from an upstream ISP outage. |
| 17:59 | kados | yea ... freenode's been wonky too |
| 18:00 | chris | id try quitting irssi |
| 18:00 | and starting it again | |
| 18:00 | kados | yea ... maybe later next week ;-) |
| 18:00 | thd | chris: I seem to remember an IRC command for correcting that problem. Not one I have ever had to use. |
| 18:00 | chris | if you could change to the other user |
| 18:01 | then you can just /quit it | |
| 18:01 | kados | thd: there's one that tells the nickserv to get rid of ghosts |
| 18:01 | but you have to have a nickserv module ;-) | |
| 18:01 | and katipo doesn't | |
| 18:01 | chris | yeah, and these technically arent ghosts |
| 18:01 | kados | ahh |
| 18:01 | chris | they are clones |
| 18:01 | ghosts are when you have timed out, but the ircd hasnt realised that yet | |
| 18:02 | thd | kados: I was thinking that this is actually not ghost issue but a zombie problem. |
| 18:02 | kados | :-) |
| 18:04 | thd | kados: What had you wanted to ask about Z39.50? |
| 18:06 | kados | thd: unfortunately I'm a bit too busy at the moment to work on that ... but in short I was unable to use Koha's z3950 client ... tried MELVL and LOC but to no avail |
| 18:06 | thd | chris: When will acquisitions be likely to work for 2.2.3? russ had indicated that you were fixing some bugs that prevent it functioning in normal mode. |
| 18:06 | chris | it works .. just has some bugs |
| 18:06 | kados | MELVL wouldn't return MARC and LOC wouldn't return rc->size |
| 18:07 | chris | LOC works sometimes |
| 18:07 | its mental | |
| 18:07 | try the canadian national library joshua | |
| 18:07 | kados | well ... I could get it to find and return things ... but only in the log |
| 18:07 | they wouldn't ever actually display to the user | |
| 18:07 | will do | |
| 18:07 | chris | we catalogued about 5 books using LoC the other day |
| 18:08 | just as a test | |
| 18:08 | thd: it will be bugfree (well freeish) by the end of hte month | |
| 18:10 | thd | kados: The Koha Z39.50 client seems poorly implemented to me and a little to complex for me to sort out in any reasonable period of time. Therefore I have started over, because as you know, I need Z39.50 working better for a prospective bookshop client. I seem to remember a different form of the Koha Z39.50 client in the past that seemed better. |
| 18:11 | chris | cool thd, something id like would be for it to provide a lot more feedback to the user about what its doing |
| 18:11 | kados | yea ... also, don't forget about the zoom API |
| 18:11 | chris | currently, its pretty hard to know whether its working on not |
| 18:12 | thd | kados: So I have not been looking at the Koha code. I did get sidetracked with character set issues for at least two weeks though when I discovered that Koha does not support the MARC-8 character set. |
| 18:15 | kados: I also found a bug in YAZ character set conversions that seems to occur about 20% of the time in my tests and wipes out the remainder of the record instead of merely issuing an odd character at that point. | |
| 18:17 | kados: I would wait for the new API, but I need to have something working before it is ready. I should at least have some significantly greater understanding of Z39.50 to bring to the new API even if the code may not be very easily converted. | |
| 18:17 | kados | thd: excelletn |
| 18:20 | thd | kados: In the past few days I have been exclusively exploring the areas of Koha that I had not examined in any detail before for writing the features list for the new koha.org website. |
| 18:22 | kados: The YAZ bug would only be a problem for using YAZ to convert characters for the OPAC. There are Perl modules that can serve the same purpose. | |
| 18:29 | chris: I will look forward to your completion of bug fixes for supporting normal acquisitions in 2.2.3. It may help smooth over other rough edges in Koha for my prospective bookshop customer even if she may never use that feature. Knowing that the provided features actually work inspires confidence. | |
| 19:31 | chris | hi owen |
| 19:31 | owen | Hi chris |
| 19:32 | What's new? | |
| 19:32 | chris | umm |
| 19:32 | last minute panics before the conference | |
| 19:32 | those are new | |
| 19:32 | owen | Conference? |
| 19:32 | chris | lianza next week |
| 19:33 | the nz library conference thing | |
| 19:33 | owen | Hey, Katipo is result #2 for 'Lianza Conference' Google search! |
| 19:34 | chris | heh cool |
| 19:34 | thats last years :) | |
| 19:35 | owen | It says 2005 |
| 19:36 | chris | oh i was talking about the emails :) |
| 19:37 | http://www.lianza.org.nz/events/conference2005/ is the conference | |
| 19:38 | it doesnt hurt that lianza run koha | |
| 19:38 | http://opac.lianza.org.nz/cgi-[…]ha/opac-search.pl :) | |
| 19:41 | owen | Cool...looks like they're using it as kind of a web document manager? |
| 19:41 | chris | yep |
| 19:41 | russ | we really need to think of a name for that |
| 19:42 | it is a hybrid of koha and our kea cms | |
| 20:10 | kados | huh ... it's in /etc/init.d/sshd |
| 20:10 | oops | |
| 01:55 | thd | chris: are you still there? |
| 02:38 | good morning paul | |
| 02:39 | paul | hi thd |
| 02:39 | thd | paul: did you receive my message about bulkauthimport.pl? |
| 02:40 | paul | yes, but I was not here yesterday. Reading my mails just today? |
| 02:40 | s/?/./ | |
| 02:41 | just one question : what do you want to do with bulkauthimport.pl ? | |
| 02:41 | thd | paul: I want to import authority records for use in Koha. |
| 02:42 | paul | and how do you plan to "connect" your authorities with bilbios ? |
| 02:42 | because that's the main problem with bulkauthimporT.pl in fact | |
| 02:42 | you MUST have a $9 in biblio, containing the authid (authority number in Koha) | |
| 02:43 | osmoze | hello all |
| 02:43 | thd | hello osmoze |
| 02:43 | paul: Had it not worked in the past? | |
| 02:44 | paul | I never needed to do this. Instead, I usually rebuild authorities from biblios after bulkmarcimporting them. |
| 02:45 | thd | paul: I understand, I want to have authority records available for use in original cataloguing. |
| 02:45 | paul | you mean you don't have biblios to import ? |
| 02:46 | you just want to import authorities, then manually catalogue ? | |
| 02:46 | thd | paul: Well I have those too but just sometimes it is actually necessary to manually catalogue. |
| 02:48 | paul: Much more importantly I want to have the 4XX, 5XX, fields available for searching in the OPAC so that the user can search without knowing the authorised form of a heading. | |
| 02:53 | paul | thd : remember I know only a little MARC21, so 4xx and 5xx don't mean a lot of things for me in this case |
| 02:53 | thd | paul: user query for T. Smith found in 4XX then transparently searches for the authorised heading Smith, Thomas Quincy |
| 02:54 | paul: For authority format 4XX and 5XX are much the same between MARC 21 and UNIMARC. | |
| 02:55 | paul: 4XX, see reference tracings; 5XX, see also reference tracings | |
| 03:00 | paul: The most immediately striking significant difference between MARC 21 and UNIMARC authority formats is that MARC 21 has the authorised heading in a particular 1XX corresponding to the type of authority concerned while UNIMARC uses 200 for the authorised heading with the type of authority set by the record label 000/06-09 | |
| 03:03 | paul: so with authorities in Koha a user could search on a non-standard form of the heading for a subject, for example, and have the search completed using the authorised heading. | |
| 03:05 | paul: users cannot be expected to know what the authorised heading is when forming a query but will often guess a form that is used in a 4XX, 5XX, etc. authority field. | |
| 03:06 | paul: The goal is not for the user to find the authority record necessarily but to improve the user query for finding the bibliographic record. | |
| 03:07 | paul: either transparently, or with an additional prompt for possible authorised forms. | |
| 03:10 | hello hdl | |
| 03:10 | paul: Was the above clear? | |
| 03:16 | hdl | hello thd. |
| 03:18 | thd | hdl: I was very pleased to see authorities working for me in Koha but http://www.kohadocs.org/script[…]mande.html#d0e229 . |
| 03:21 | hdl: I was asking paul about this a few minutes ago and then he vanished or I scared him away explaining some of what I wanted to do with authority records in Koha. See the log for the past several minutes. | |
| 03:23 | hdl: Is this too much English for this hour of the morning? :) | |
| 03:23 | hdl | no. |
| 03:23 | paul | (was in phone) |
| 03:24 | (hdl : with BDDC, to speak of the remplacement of their dead PC) | |
| 03:24 | thd | paul: :) |
| 03:26 | paul | about 4xx and 5xx : the search won't be automatically extended to rejected forms or so |
| 03:26 | (too complex to code) | |
| 03:26 | but the dictionnary button will help the user | |
| 03:26 | here, he can find the correct value he is searching for. | |
| 03:32 | thd | paul: Is it not partly a question of adding more indexes to the correct fields, such that an index match for 4XX, 5XX then substitutes the matching authority heading and resubmits the query? Queries would not be submitted directly they would be submitted to a script for authority validation and then submitted against the bibliographic indexes. |
| 03:33 | paul | the solution we will probably use (in Koha 3.0) will be : |
| 03:34 | "search on Ratzinger did not return any result. Looking in my file I suspect you wanted to do a search on Benoit XVI. Do you want to search on Benoit XVI ?" | |
| 03:36 | thd | paul: A version of SIRSI Unicorn does this transparently. Koha should be able to do anything that SIRSI can do, only better :) |
| 03:36 | paul: Including your solution ;) | |
| 03:37 | paul | i'm strongly against a computer saying "hey, dude, you are stupid, I'm intelligent, so i modified your question without your confirmation" |
| 03:37 | thd | paul: Of course as am I. I had meant this to be a search option. |
| 03:41 | paul: However, it should be well understood that authorised names are derived from copyright registrations and often never appear on the published work. Authorised subject headings are a convention for libraries that an unfamiliar user should never be expected to know. Even if a user does know the authorised form from some time, such forms evolve over time and may no longer be the authorised form presently. | |
| 03:43 | paul: so what is the problem with bulkauthimport.pl for actually using the script to import authorities? | |
| 03:45 | paul: had authority matching to the bibliographic record in Koha not used $9 before version 2.2.2? | |
| 03:46 | paul | no, it's just that I began writing bulkauthimport here. |
| 03:46 | and failed to do something working | |
| 03:47 | thd | paul: Do you mean that it never worked for importing authority records into Koha? |
| 03:51 | paul: I guess errors are less well documented than triumphs for when the memory fails later :) Although, I often remember my errors better yet not perhaps the errors of a script. | |
| 03:58 | What is meant to be in the second table of authority search results in the first column, the summary column? | |
| 06:13 | paul: I noticed one incomplete aspect of bulkauthimport.pl which allows me to correct a mistake in my previous posting. bulkauthimport.pl should check which MARC 21 1XX or UNIMARC 2XX is being used to determine type of authority record. 000/09 is undefined in the UNIMARC standard yet read by bulkmarcimport.pl to determine type of authority record. What special authority records were you using that had 000/09 defined? | |
| 06:24 | s/bulkmarc/bulkauth/ | |
| 11:07 | Sylvain | hi all ! |
| 11:07 | paul, quelques remarques sur ton mail :) | |
| 11:08 | paul | je t'écoute ;-) |
| 11:08 | Sylvain | alors j'ai noté USA à remplacer par États-Unis |
| 11:08 | ça plait pas trop aux bibliothécaires ce genre de choses ;) | |
| 11:08 | paul | corrigé |
| 11:09 | Sylvain | 2eme |
| 11:09 | trimestre 2006 | |
| 11:09 | j'aurais mis 2ème | |
| 11:09 | mais j'suis pas sur la | |
| 11:09 | paul | si, c'est juste |
| 11:10 | Sylvain | Paul et Henri-Damien forment une équipe soudée qui peuvent -> qui peut |
| 11:11 | à | |
| 11:11 | l'INRETS, et que c'est Koha qui a été retenu | |
| 11:11 | -> et Koha a été retenu | |
| 11:12 | paul | OK et OK |
| 11:13 | Sylvain | 'implication de plusieurs sociétés dans le projet est une bonne |
| 11:13 | nouvelles | |
| 11:13 | -s | |
| 11:13 | paul | et ben... que de fotes ! |
| 11:14 | phote, pardon ;-) | |
| 11:14 | Sylvain | :) |
| 11:14 | bon bein c'est tout ce que j'ai vu | |
| 11:14 | bien rentré hier au fait ? | |
| 11:15 | paul | oui, tout à fait. |
| 11:15 | 3H, c'est franchement génial ! | |
| 11:16 | Sylvain | tu m'étonnes ... |
| 11:49 | shaun | what happened to the case study box...? |
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