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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 13:55 | kados | hdl: you around? |
| 13:55 | thd: you around? | |
| 16:03 | rach | bonjour |
| 16:21 | thd | kados: I am paying attention now :) |
| 16:22 | kados | thd: hi |
| 16:23 | thd | hello kados |
| 16:25 | kados: you had asked for me earlier. What had you wanted? | |
| 16:25 | kados | thd: do you know if the leader is working for resivoir-imported records? |
| 16:26 | thd: also, are there any 'gotchas' for resevoir-imported records that you know of (asside from the normal ones that also apply to bulkmarcimport) | |
| 16:26 | thd | kados: I assume that you would know better than I as I never installed the leader fix, yet :) |
| 16:26 | kados | thd: (leader doesn't seem to be working for me when I use addbiblio.pl and items that have previously been imported into the resevoir |
| 16:27 | ahh | |
| 16:27 | thought you would have had an essay on it by now ;-) | |
| 16:28 | thd | kados: I had been working on rewriting the Z39.50 client so I have not experimented with bulkmarkimport stage recently. |
| 16:30 | kados: I do need to have it all working with a very low price for a bookshop client by the 22 September. | |
| 16:31 | kados: I will have October to actually implement it but I need to know enough to specify the lowest possible price in advance. | |
| 16:31 | kados | cool you've got a client |
| 16:35 | russ | hi thd and kados - i am just preparing a summary of where we are at with the content, you should have it in your inbox within the hour |
| 16:35 | kados | russ: great ... sorry I've been behind in writing |
| 16:36 | thd | kados: the leader question: You will not have a leader for records imported before the fix where the leader had been stripped off. |
| 16:36 | kados | thd: right ... from what I can tell I've got the version of addbiblio that has record management |
| 16:37 | thd: I'll check breeding.pl | |
| 16:39 | I don't see any commits related to leader for breeding.pl | |
| 16:39 | thd | russ: I have been devoting several hours each day since Saturday to writing and becoming familiar with some features that I had never looked at closely in Koha. |
| 16:39 | kados | I wonder if paul forgot |
| 16:40 | russ | cool guys - i'll finish this, and maybe we cna get a chance to discuss in a little while |
| 16:40 | thd | kados: you meant the version of addbiblo with 'leader management' |
| 16:43 | kados | thd: maybe ... but it could also be a problem when breeding.pl imports the file right? |
| 16:43 | thd: every other field seems to be fine | |
| 16:43 | thd | russ: 'cna'? |
| 16:43 | kados | thd: but the leader doesn't show up |
| 16:43 | thd: s/cna/can/ ;-) | |
| 16:49 | russ | sorry only one coffee so far this morning |
| 16:49 | typing requires at least 2 coffees | |
| 16:49 | thd | kados: I mistrust the import scripts aside from bulkmarcimport.pl. The others only import the what is included in the MARC schema. Paul considers that a feature, as may well be. However I mistrust the schema as well. I am rewriting the Z39.50 client to use bulkmarkimport.pl and bypass everything else. |
| 16:51 | russ: I never type correctly. I now have a spell check plug-in for X-Chat at home. | |
| 16:55 | russ | :-) now that is a good idea |
| 16:57 | thd | kados: I would like to have the MARC schema supporting every field indicator and subfield so that I could use it with confidence. Single record importing with breeding.pl is more natural than using bulkmarcimport.pl . |
| 17:01 | russ: aspell or ispell spell checking does not fix everything, like my dropped words or poor word order. Occasionally, it makes things much worse when I select the wrong misspelling suggested correction. | |
| 17:08 | kados: are you still there? | |
| 17:11 | russ: my email had asked about why Open CMS was dropped. I did have some understanding of why Mambo had been dropped which was your reply. Why was Open CMS dropped after all the trouble installing it? | |
| 17:14 | rach | it needed java to run and the good volunteers didn't have time/energy to learn how to use it |
| 17:15 | thd | rach: needing Java is a big strike from the start. |
| 17:15 | rach | so we (katipo) still want to give it a go, but we want a website up more :-) |
| 17:16 | for all it's faults at least we know how kea works, and how to tweak it if necessary | |
| 17:17 | russ | hi guys - content status report - http://www.russandsarah.gen.nz[…]-status-good.html |
| 17:17 | doing an email now | |
| 17:23 | kados | russ: I've got 'history' about 50% done as well |
| 17:28 | russ | great |
| 17:31 | kados | no ;-) |
| 17:32 | but it's probably got something to do with being late getting something done ;-) | |
| 17:33 | russ | http://www.silverfernz.com/pro[…]asp?idProduct=388 - it is a kiwi thing |
| 17:33 | something that often gets given out a small reward for doing something | |
| 17:34 | marshmallow fish with with a little bit of caramel coated in a thin layer of chocolate | |
| 17:34 | kados | :-) |
| 17:34 | hehe ... now I think I remember chris mentioning it at some point | |
| 17:36 | thd | a tessellating chocolate fish :) |
| 17:37 | kados: have you enquired with the Argentines about barcode generation? | |
| 17:38 | kados | thd: naw ... I'm reading the code ;-) |
| 17:38 | thd: I already committed one fix | |
| 17:39 | thd: with more on the way ;-) | |
| 17:39 | thd | kados: The suggestion from my message is that Koha is missing some of the code to use their barcode generation code correctly. |
| 17:40 | kados | thd: really? |
| 17:40 | thd: I didn't get that from your email at all | |
| 17:40 | thd: I should re-read it | |
| 17:40 | thd | kados: what is the purpose of the country code? |
| 17:40 | kados | thd: not sure yet |
| 17:42 | thd | kados: unless of course the scanner internal software is expected to strip everything out except your barcode. Not all barcode scanners have the programming logic for that in the scanner. Some expect the application program to supply the logic. |
| 17:45 | kados: my suggestion is that the Argentines are either using a different type or differently configured scanner from yours or Koha is missing a routine a custom routine to parse the input from the scanner. | |
| 17:51 | kados: When I have written barcode generation routines, I used code 39. No error checking, but much easier to implement. The encoded '*' is the start and stop character, '*BARCODENUMBER*'. Code 128 is a much more compact symbology and better in every way except ease of programming. | |
| 17:55 | kados: ISBNs have county built into the code, but the country prefix is expected to be part of the 10 digit and soon to be 13 digit code. | |
| 17:58 | kados: perhaps the Argentines were trying to build codes that worked like ISBNs with a country code prefix. | |
| 02:12 | osmoze | hello |
| 03:13 | hdl | hello |
| 03:16 | osmoze | hdl> te souviens tu d un fichier sur les bilans me semble t il que tu m avais modifier en partie et qu il fallait que je continu suivant ton modele ? |
| 03:17 | bonjour paul :) | |
| 03:17 | paul | salut jseb |
| 03:17 | hdl | très vaguement. |
| 03:17 | Rafraîchis ma mémoire. | |
| 03:26 | osmoze | je retrouver en retrouvant les erreurs :) |
| 03:26 | -er +ais | |
| 03:51 | paul, comment cela marche pour les correction avant la 2.2.4 ? Il y a une mise a jour des sources avec les correction petit a petit pour la 2.2.3 ou pas ? | |
| 03:52 | paul | tu veux dire sources publiques ? |
| 03:52 | j'annonce sur la liste les bugs bloquants/critiques avec leur fix. | |
| 03:52 | pas de diff ou de patch. | |
| 03:52 | il y a eu 2 annonces. | |
| 03:52 | osmoze | ok |
| 03:53 | paul_away | oups, alt-F4 par erreur |
| 04:17 | paul | ih shaun |
| 04:18 | is there a private url to see the future website ? | |
| 04:19 | shaun | paul: hi |
| 04:19 | yep, koha2.edit.katipo.co.nz, but unfortunately it's currently restricted to content editors | |
| 04:20 | paul | I saw the link, I was looking for something without .htaccess restriction ;-) |
| 04:26 | shaun | it won't be long... i take it you saw the design? |
| 04:26 | paul | yes, of course. |
| 04:38 | chris : some minuts to speak of rugby ? | |
| 04:38 | did the last Aka from all blacks make noise in NZ ? | |
| 04:38 | because in France it did ! | |
| 04:39 | chris | did you like it paul? |
| 04:39 | yes, it was a suprise to us, but everyone really liked it | |
| 04:40 | si | other than the throat slitting |
| 04:40 | chris | they are keeping both, and using the new one on special occassions |
| 04:40 | si | which did suprise a few folks |
| 04:40 | paul | the noise was about the throat slitting. |
| 04:40 | chris | who obviously had never seen a real haka before |
| 04:40 | paul | in france, many ppl where really angry with it. |
| 04:40 | chris | throat slitting is pretty tame |
| 04:41 | si | well indeed, throat slitting is pretty commonplace in schoolboy haka |
| 04:41 | paul | but all blacks are world-wide famous, so they should be carefull. imho |
| 04:42 | some things that may look common for kiwis can be really strange for strangers | |
| 04:42 | chris | yep |
| 04:42 | they will only ever do that haka in new zealand | |
| 04:42 | si | paul: one suggestion is that the old haka isn't copywritable, since it's in the public domain (being over 100 years old) |
| 04:43 | so you can be sure that the rugby union will be keeping very close tabs on the new haka | |
| 04:43 | chris | plus its about a man who was responsible for the death of a lot of my relations |
| 04:43 | (the old haka that is) | |
| 04:43 | si | not just yor relations, mind |
| 04:44 | he was pretty unselective about who he killed | |
| 04:44 | chris | yeah, everyone from kapiti south ;) |
| 04:44 | the old all black haka is not about the all blacks or rugby at all paul | |
| 04:45 | its about a man called Te Rauparaha who was a particularly ruthless and bloodthirsty man | |
| 04:48 | it predates the all blacks .. and in fact predates new zealand :-) | |
| 04:51 | si | paul: lest you get the wrong idea, he was a local hero in the area I grew up |
| 04:52 | it's all a matter of perspective | |
| 04:52 | and he did build a stunning church | |
| 04:52 | chris | he was certainly smart |
| 04:53 | si | paul: the haka actually describes his joy at surviving an invasion from his enemies by hiding in a kumara pit, if my memory serves |
| 04:53 | chris | thats right |
| 04:54 | si | the old one, that is |
| 04:54 | the new one just says "heads up, this is going to hurt" as far as I can tell | |
| 04:54 | chris | the new one is new words, but the actions are a mish mash of other hakas |
| 04:55 | si | it is hard to make up a truly unique dance move, though |
| 04:55 | chris | yeah the new one is can only really be done in nz, its about how this is their land |
| 04:56 | my brother in laws cousin wrote the new one | |
| 04:56 | yep ill find it for you | |
| 04:58 | http://www.nzallblacks.net/haka.asp | |
| 04:58 | has the translation of both of them | |
| 05:07 | i think they even slipped a couple of samoan and fijian actions into it | |
| 05:07 | si | as you do |
| 05:07 | chris | ill have to wait till the next big test to see :) |
| 05:08 | si | when you pinch players from all over the souther hemisphere |
| 05:08 | chris | yep |
| 05:08 | rules=rulers | |
| 05:09 | si | really |
| 05:09 | chris | ill have to show you the video some time we converted it from my grandmas super8 camera thing |
| 05:09 | i used to do them on the back porch and get the it stuck between the slats and trip on them | |
| 05:09 | slow learner obviously | |
| 05:09 | si | ohh, there's video? |
| 05:09 | now we're talking | |
| 05:10 | chris | i could bore you with the dvd of the wedding too :-) |
| 05:11 | laurels dad has been making dvd's of everything | |
| 07:20 | kados | /ni/nick kados |
| 07:43 | hdl | Saleté d'orages... |
| 07:46 | osmoze | pas touché hdl ? J ai regardé les infos a midi, c est pas beau vers chez toi |
| 07:46 | hdl | J'ai failli. |
| 07:46 | Pendant que j'arrêtais ma machine, un gros pétard a éclaté bien prêt. | |
| 07:47 | Dieu merci, rien de grave. | |
| 07:47 | paul | c'est pas très cher et quand même bien rassurant... |
| 07:47 | bon, allez, je t'ouvre un crédit pour acheter un onduleur | |
| 07:47 | (c'est sérieux) | |
| 07:47 | hdl | En tout cas, pas par rapport à la machine. |
| 07:48 | Je vais voir. | |
| 07:48 | Il en faut un de 750 VA Non ? | |
| 07:48 | paul | mmm... je ne me souviens plus de ce que j'ai acheté. |
| 07:49 | j'ai pris un onduleur basique, pour 1PC 300W + écran + 1 prise régulée (pour mon bon vieux speedtouch home) | |
| 09:38 | kados | hdl: hi there |
| 09:39 | hdl: I'm having a strange problem with the cataloging Z39.50 client in Koha | |
| 09:39 | hdl: I run a query, it finds a result (I can tell from the log) | |
| 09:39 | hdl: but I get an error in the other log: | |
| 09:39 | [Tue Sep 06 08:36:54 2005] [error] [client 66.213.78.2] script not found or unable to stat: /home/nbbc/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/z3950/0 | |
| 09:39 | hdl | Yes... |
| 09:39 | known problem. | |
| 09:39 | kados | is there a solution? |
| 09:41 | hdl | yes. |
| 09:42 | In fact, you have to change the return value of a function which sometimes return a string and sometimes an int. | |
| 09:46 | kados : line 103 in search.pl file in z3950 directory | |
| 09:47 | refresh => ($numberpending eq 0 ? 0 : "search.pl?bibid=$bibid&random=$random"), | |
| 09:47 | replace the second 0 with "" for instance. | |
| 09:48 | kados | hdl: ok ... I'll test it |
| 09:49 | hdl: ok ... that seems to have fixed that specific bug ... but I still get 'no results found' when in the log there are results | |
| 09:49 | hdl | if you search for biblio you already have, doesnot say anithing, but answers no results. |
| 09:50 | kados | hdl: I'm not searching for an already existing biblio in this case |
| 09:50 | hdl | AHA!!! |
| 09:50 | Did you try ISBN search ? | |
| 09:51 | or author search ? | |
| 09:51 | kados | hdl: title search |
| 09:51 | hdl: here's the last entries in log: | |
| 09:51 | 21222/16 : MELVYL : 2 records found, retrieving them (max 80) | |
| 09:51 | 21222/16 : MELVYL : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 records retrieved 2 SPEED: 2 | |
| 09:51 | 21222/16 : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 search done. | |
| 09:53 | hdl: any ideas? | |
| 09:56 | hdl | I have had problems with this. But paul stated that was because it was already in base. |
| 09:57 | kados | well in this case, it's definitely not ;-) |
| 09:57 | I've tried several titles that are not in the catalog | |
| 09:58 | also, the titles are not in the resevoir | |
| 09:59 | hdl | Maybe you could try with external tools. |
| 09:59 | I can provide you with a testZ3950.pl file | |
| 09:59 | kados | well ... the log shows that Koha's Z3950 client is finding records |
| 10:00 | but ... for some reason, it's not listing them | |
| 10:00 | so a cataloger cannot add them to resevoir | |
| 10:01 | unless I'm not understanding what z3950/search.pl is supposed to do | |
| 10:01 | paul: do you have any comments? | |
| 10:03 | paul | kados, i'm here |
| 10:03 | when a MARC record is retrieved, if it is already in the DB, it's discarded | |
| 10:04 | that's why, for example, you can't do a "loop" with koha z3950 client querying koha z3950 server | |
| 10:04 | does this help ? | |
| 10:04 | kados | hmmm |
| 10:04 | in this case, I'm searching for a title called 'cryptonomicon' | |
| 10:04 | the library does not own this title | |
| 10:05 | and the record does not exist in the resevoir | |
| 10:05 | paul | mmm... isbn checked ? |
| 10:05 | kados | searching by title |
| 10:05 | the log shows that it has found some results | |
| 10:06 | but they are not visable to the user | |
| 10:06 | paul | that's why we think it may be a "discarded because it exist" |
| 10:06 | kados | but it does not exist ;-) |
| 10:06 | paul | so my question : |
| 10:06 | kados | I have checked several times ;-) |
| 10:06 | paul | did you also check the ISBN ? |
| 10:06 | kados | no ... I will do so now |
| 10:07 | paul | (because the check uses primarily the isbn) |
| 10:08 | kados | paul: nothing found using the ISBN |
| 10:09 | paul: in catalog or in resevoir | |
| 10:09 | paul | is there an isbn is the retrieved record ? |
| 10:09 | (because i think there might be a bug if no isbn) | |
| 10:09 | kados | I can't see it but when I do a Z3950 search using the ISBN I get a result in the log |
| 10:09 | paul | (under certain circumstances) |
| 10:09 | kados | so I search by 0060512806 |
| 10:10 | paul | whatever you search, you get an empty result ? |
| 10:10 | kados | yes |
| 10:10 | but the log shows results | |
| 10:12 | paul: here is the log entries: | |
| 10:12 | 21517/19 : Processing isbn=0380788624 at MELVYL melvyl.cdlib.org:210 CDL90 USMARC (2 forks) | |
| 10:12 | 21517/19 : 2 >> | |
| 10:13 | 21517/19 : creating and 21517/19 : working on results entry 23 | |
| 10:13 | 21517/19 : connected to MELVYL | |
| 10:13 | 21517/19 : MELVYL : 1 records found, retrieving them (max 80) | |
| 10:13 | 21517/19 : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 search done. | |
| 10:13 | but the user sees: | |
| 10:13 | Z3950 Search Results | |
| 10:13 | Nothing found | |
| 10:13 | I wonder if it could be a template problem | |
| 10:13 | owen: what do you think? | |
| 10:13 | owen | Sorry...wasn't following. |
| 10:14 | kados | have you ever gotten z3950 search results to display with NPL templates? |
| 10:14 | paul | I think it's exactly the problem we had with z3950 client on results "disappearing". |
| 10:14 | owen | Where are you testing? |
| 10:14 | paul | the log shows results, and the window says "no results" |
| 10:14 | kados | owen: well ... on nbbc production |
| 10:14 | paul: exactly | |
| 10:14 | paul | did you empty the breeding table ? |
| 10:15 | (the one that contains the reservoir) | |
| 10:15 | kados | paul: didn't know I needed to |
| 10:15 | paul: how is it doen? | |
| 10:15 | paul: done even | |
| 10:15 | paul | (it's a "delete from breeding", not a Koha feature) |
| 10:16 | kados | paul: marc_breeding? |
| 10:16 | paul | yes |
| 10:17 | kados | ok done ... I'll retest |
| 10:17 | paul: same problem | |
| 10:17 | paul: and nothing in marc_breeding | |
| 10:18 | owen | It doesn't seem to be working on NPL's test server, even in the default template |
| 10:22 | kados | switched to default for nbbc and I get same error as with NPL |
| 10:22 | paul: so I assume none of your libraries use this feature? | |
| 10:26 | paul | kados : almost all my libraries uses it. |
| 10:26 | so we should investigate to understand why it does not work for you ;-) | |
| 10:26 | did you try with loc ? | |
| 10:26 | (because sometimes, z3950 servers have strange behaviours) | |
| 10:27 | (like returning an empty string if you don't specify the format you want as they expect) | |
| 10:27 | (i've seen this once in France, where a server returning UNIMARC wanted a type=usmarc even !) | |
| 10:30 | kados | paul: can you or hdl send me a 'known good' Z3950 server config? |
| 10:31 | paul | an unimarc one ? |
| 10:31 | kados | paul: ip/port/db name for USMARC? |
| 10:31 | always the problem ;-) we're using two different MARCs ;-) | |
| 10:32 | hdl | kados : simple idea. |
| 10:33 | in processz3950queue, you could print the marcrecord you get. | |
| 10:33 | kados | ok ... I'll try it |
| 10:33 | hdl | line 283 |
| 10:34 | you can add print $rec->as_formatted; | |
| 10:34 | then you could know what you receive. | |
| 10:36 | kados | hmmm ... I added this line but nothing shows up in the log |
| 10:36 | I wonder if I need to do a 'warn' | |
| 10:41 | when I first run 'z3950daemon-launch.sh' (as root) I get: | |
| 10:41 | No directory, logging in with HOME=/ | |
| 10:41 | could that be a problem? | |
| 11:36 | hdl | paul encore dans les parages ? |
| 11:36 | paul_away, ne pars pas maintenant... | |
| 11:36 | paul_away | still here (but leaving...) |
| 11:37 | hdl | Je voulais savoir si l'on pouvait utiliser le netserver avec des bases de tests. |
| 11:37 | pour les clients. | |
| 11:37 | Ca permettrai de se libérer de ces problèmes de connexion. | |
| 11:37 | Mais ca a ses risques. | |
| 11:38 | En fait, c'est Madame jarroux qui a été gênée dans ses tests par mes déconnexions à cause de l'orage. | |
| 11:38 | paul_away | mmm... je vais y réfléchir. |
| 11:38 | on en reparle jeudi si tu veux bien. | |
| 11:38 | là, away pour de bon | |
| 11:38 | (le pb du netserver, c'est qu'il a un disque IDE, pas bon pour les perfs...) | |
| 11:39 | hdl | bonne soirée. |
| 11:39 | kados, is you problem solved ? | |
| 11:39 | kados | hdl: nope |
| 11:40 | hdl: in fact, I've given up for today ;-) | |
| 11:40 | hdl | ok. |
| 11:40 | kados | hdl: a bigger problem is that the leader does not appear in addbiblio |
| 11:40 | hdl: so there is data loss when a cataloger uses Koha's internal cataloging | |
| 11:41 | hdl: in fact, when a record is added with bulkmarcimport the leader is preserved | |
| 11:41 | hdl: but if that record is then edited with addbiblio (say to add a new item) | |
| 11:41 | hdl: the leader is lost !! | |
| 11:41 | hdl: it's a big bug | |
| 11:41 | hdl | Gosh ! |
| 11:41 | If you give a try with printing marc records, tell me about it. | |
| 11:42 | kados | hdl: I tried that but Net::Z3950 doesn't have a 'as_formated' method |
| 11:42 | hdl: so I would need to include MARC::Record in processqueue | |
| 11:42 | hdl: and that's where I gave up ;-) | |
| 11:42 | hdl: I may try later today but i was sick of it for now ;-) | |
| 11:43 | hdl: you should warn your clients not to us Koha's internal cataloging! | |
| 11:43 | hdl: if they use it they will lose all their leaders | |
| 11:44 | hdl | For internal use, it is not a problem. |
| 11:44 | is it ? | |
| 11:44 | kados | not in Koha 2.2 ... but they will never have valid marc records again ;-) |
| 11:45 | and in Koha 3.0 we plan to use leaders for some functions | |
| 11:45 | so it's a real problem | |
| 11:46 | hdl: leaders cannot be 'auto-generated' they must be hand-crafted by a librarian | |
| 11:47 | hdl | What about leader management that paul designed a few weeks ago ? |
| 11:47 | kados | hdl: it only works for bulkmarcimport |
| 11:48 | hdl: so if your client imports records with bulkmarcimport the leader is preserved | |
| 11:48 | hdl: but if they then edit the record with addbiblio it is lost | |
| 11:49 | hdl | Is this a problem of MARC::RECORD or simply because addbiblio loose leaders |
| 11:49 | kados | hdl: note that in most koha installation you must 'save' the biblio before going to 'items' ... so adding a new item to a biblio automatically results in losing the leader for that record ... even if it was there to begin with |
| 11:49 | hdl: simply because addbiblio loses leaders | |
| 11:49 | hdl: I'm not sure if breeding scripts may be responsible too | |
| 11:51 | hdl: I have a proposal about statuses | |
| 11:51 | hdl: have you read my email to koha-devel? | |
| 11:51 | hdl | Maybe because there was no tag so it was quite a difference from MARC::Record. |
| 11:51 | I have seen but not read atm | |
| 11:52 | kados | hdl: (I don't know the reason addbiblio loses leaders ... all I know is that it does ;-)) |
| 11:55 | hdl | kados: about your question. |
| 11:56 | IMHO, I think that both notforloan on items and itemtype are needed... in tha way that an item which can be borrowed according to its itemtype may happen not to be borrowable since it is too old, to damaged. | |
| 11:57 | But maybe I misunderstood the question. | |
| 11:57 | kados | hdl: yes ... paul and I already discussed this and it's now fixed |
| 11:57 | hdl: I recently replied to myself about this | |
| 11:57 | hdl: and committed the fix | |
| 11:57 | hdl: more important now I think | |
| 11:58 | hdl: is that notforloan statuses are not updated automatically by Koha | |
| 11:58 | hdl: so if I have notforloan=>1 = 'checked out' Koha does not know to update this when an item is checked out | |
| 11:58 | hdl: it only works if staff manually edits the marc record | |
| 11:59 | hdl: which is quite impossible in this case |
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