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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:00 | shaun | sent |
| 12:01 | owen | Whoa. The Internet is cool. |
| 12:06 | ...and Freehand is picky. It didn't like that FH11 file at all :) | |
| 12:16 | hdl | kados ? |
| 12:16 | kados | hdl: I'm here |
| 12:17 | hdl | Are you through with serials management ? |
| 12:17 | kados | for now |
| 12:17 | I need to discuss it with the Law librarian | |
| 12:17 | hdl | Is your likely client satisfied ? |
| 12:17 | ok. | |
| 12:17 | kados | I haven't been able to reach him yet |
| 12:18 | hopefully next week | |
| 12:18 | (this is an american holiday weekend) | |
| 12:18 | (labor day ... most libraries are closed ;-)) | |
| 12:18 | hdl | wichi holiday is it ? |
| 12:19 | kados | Labor Day |
| 12:19 | hdl | :) |
| 12:19 | kados | hdl: do you understand borrower issuing rules? |
| 12:19 | I have defined rules in '*' | |
| 12:19 | hdl | Yas |
| 12:19 | for us it is on the 1st May. | |
| 12:19 | yes. | |
| 12:20 | kados | 6,14 / 0.2,1,1 |
| 12:20 | for all '*' fields | |
| 12:20 | but when I issue something I get: | |
| 12:20 | Please Confirm Issue: | |
| 12:20 | Too many issues (already issued / max : a 0 / 0) | |
| 12:20 | when everything is blank it works fine | |
| 12:21 | is it a bug? | |
| 12:21 | hdl | Yas, it is default taken into account. |
| 12:21 | kados | this is a production system for a client of mine |
| 12:21 | any idea how to fix the problem? | |
| 12:21 | hdl | Have you tried filleng every cas with those values ? |
| 12:22 | kados | no ... |
| 12:22 | I will try it now | |
| 12:23 | hdl | I think th problem is that when the itemtype/borcat is empty, there might be a feature that does not take *s into account. |
| 12:23 | But may be a bug... | |
| 12:23 | ;) | |
| 12:27 | GOSH ! | |
| 12:27 | kados | |
| 12:27 | kados | yes? |
| 12:27 | hdl | you should also fill default branch values hehe... |
| 12:27 | kados | ? |
| 12:27 | hdl | I think you miss them. |
| 12:27 | kados | where? |
| 12:28 | that's where I am ... default | |
| 12:28 | default and * | |
| 12:28 | hdl | you can choose branch with issuing rules setting page. |
| 12:28 | kados | (within default) |
| 12:28 | hdl | Ah ok. |
| 12:29 | Sorry. But both borrower branch AND default branch values are checked. | |
| 12:29 | C4/Circ2.pm : TooMany | |
| 12:30 | kados | hdl: so I need to define in both? |
| 12:30 | hdl | That's why I shouted. |
| 12:30 | kados | ok ... |
| 12:31 | one last time ... if I only fill in 'default' it will not work? | |
| 12:31 | this seems like a bug to me ;-) | |
| 12:31 | meushi | hi |
| 12:31 | kados | what's the point of default if it doesn't work as a default :-) |
| 12:31 | hi meushi | |
| 12:32 | meushi | to provide heated discussions on IRC? :p |
| 12:33 | kados | :-) |
| 12:34 | meushi | I still have a small issue with barcode pdf generation... they are seen as corrupted by acroread, they open with warnings in xpdf |
| 12:35 | kados | did you change the extension to .pdf? |
| 12:35 | meushi | piping them through "pdf2ps | ps2pdf14" makes them readable again |
| 12:36 | looks like acroread didn't like the forms: stuff | |
| 12:36 | yeah, I renamed them... of course | |
| 12:40 | kados | meushi: strange ... it works for me |
| 12:40 | hdl: still not working | |
| 12:40 | hdl: I have setup values for all '*' in default and all '*' in MAIN | |
| 12:41 | hdl: I get the same error | |
| 12:41 | hdl | Ohoh. |
| 12:41 | meushi | kados: might be the #$@! standard XP config at work... worked with my non-standard linux desktop, too |
| 12:41 | hdl | So there is a bug. |
| 12:41 | kados | meushi: could be ... I'm running OSX |
| 12:41 | hdl: it seems so | |
| 12:41 | meushi | heh |
| 12:42 | kados | hdl: none of your clients have this problem? |
| 12:42 | hdl | I never tried filling fees. |
| 12:43 | kados | not fees ... just loan lengths |
| 12:43 | I haven't done fees yet ;-) | |
| 12:43 | paul: are you around? | |
| 12:43 | hdl | yes. |
| 12:43 | seems not. | |
| 12:43 | But I happened to have problems when not filling | |
| 12:43 | every case. | |
| 12:44 | kados | ahh ... every case for every branch? ;-) |
| 12:44 | takes quite a long time ;-) | |
| 12:44 | hdl | yes. |
| 12:44 | kados | 25 itemtypes and 13 borrowertypes for this client |
| 12:44 | hdl | But you can have a look at the function I spotted to see. |
| 12:45 | kados | and three branches (including default) |
| 12:45 | hdl: ? | |
| 12:45 | hdl: what function? | |
| 12:46 | hdl | C4/Circ2.pm : TooMany |
| 12:46 | The fact is that it does all the checks before returning and if one is not fulfilled, returns wrong. | |
| 12:47 | It MUST do all the checking. But maybe it is too restrictive. | |
| 12:47 | kados | I just tried something |
| 12:47 | filling in value for default and MAIN | |
| 12:47 | (not *) | |
| 12:47 | and that borrowertype can issue that itemtype with no error | |
| 12:49 | hdl | Have fun. |
| 12:49 | kados | thanks ;-) |
| 12:50 | owen | We ran across this problem when we last upgraded, kados |
| 12:52 | kados | ahh ... did we ever fix it? |
| 12:52 | hdl: got time for one more question? | |
| 12:53 | owen | I think we just filled in every possible combo. |
| 12:53 | kados | for each branch? |
| 12:53 | or just in default? | |
| 12:54 | owen | Hmm... I'd have to look. I'm guessing each branch. |
| 12:55 | No... it doesn't look like that's the case after all | |
| 12:56 | Just default, but each itemtype/borrowertype combo had to be filled in | |
| 13:15 | shaun | kados: was there ever a final decision that NPL templates would be used as default in 2.4? |
| 13:15 | kados | nope ... I think 3.0 will have completely new templates |
| 13:16 | shaun | 3.0 sounds goooood |
| 13:22 | owen | The only new development on HEAD is the programmer's templates, which the public doesn't have to ever see |
| 13:24 | meushi | hello owen |
| 13:24 | owen | Hi meushi |
| 13:25 | meushi | owen: I've been playing with the npl templates today |
| 13:25 | owen | Great |
| 13:25 | meushi | partial french translation and a few fixes in the reports |
| 13:27 | owen | Fixes? |
| 13:27 | meushi | the top borrower table had a typo in the logic |
| 13:27 | owen | Any bugs you find pass them on to me and I'll commit them |
| 13:28 | meushi | when it's looping and passing highlight, after the else, you want tr and not td |
| 13:28 | else the highlight lines get moved 1 cell to the right | |
| 13:29 | at least on firefox | |
| 13:34 | owen | Which page, meushi? |
| 13:35 | meushi | hmm, I don't have the code under my eyes |
| 13:35 | the template for reports - > top borrowers | |
| 13:35 | owen | Okay |
| 13:36 | meushi | one sec, I'm downloading the source at home |
| 13:39 | bor_issues_top.tmpl line 36 | |
| 13:43 | and I would also suggest removing "<!-- TMPL_ELSE -->Item" from line 43 in cat_issues_top.tmpl | |
| 13:43 | so it remains coherent with the other reports (empty cells if no result) | |
| 14:55 | shaun | kados: am i missing something? why not just use npl as default and make it more suitable for css customisation? |
| 15:04 | kados | shaun: fine with me but IIRC rach doesn't like npl ;-) |
| 15:07 | shaun | i would say the current default ones are much harder to like |
| 15:51 | meushi | hmm... I've got a question about templates in international settings |
| 15:52 | how would you deal with having to support 20 languages? | |
| 15:52 | 20 languages directories under the template | |
| 15:52 | or | |
| 15:53 | a modified html::template with locale::makephrase? | |
| 15:55 | or c) come to your senses and run away? ;) | |
| 16:21 | shaun | meushi: i think you've found the answer |
| 16:22 | although i would personally do the latter, not that that it will likely happen in the next few releases | |
| 16:25 | meushi | well, the nice part is that irght now only opac needs to be supported in 20 languages |
| 16:25 | for the intranet part, fr/en should be enough | |
| 18:03 | gnite | |
| 19:01 | chris | g'day |
| 20:46 | thd | If I am in text mode as opposed to WSIWG mode in the Kea content editor, do I have the same advantages to edit the document source as if I were using the edit source function which is not enabled for my user? |
| 21:04 | chris | you can still only edit the small part |
| 21:04 | but you can embed some html | |
| 21:04 | with edit source, you edit the entirity of the document | |
| 21:05 | edit content you can only edit the parts that have been tagged editable | |
| 21:05 | was that what you were asking? | |
| 21:31 | thd | chris: That is exactly what I was asking. |
| 22:07 | chris: Why does the Kea editor not work in Opera, older versions of Mozilla etc. ? | |
| 22:42 | chris | because its not designed to |
| 22:47 | edit source will work in any browser, so should the rest of the features, only the edit content, (with the rich text editor enabled, like the kea site for koha has switched on) wont | |
| 01:31 | thd | What does Koha have to support systematically taking inventory to compare the material on the actual shelves and the in circulation records to the catalogue record of current holdings? Many institutions are required to take inventory in fulfilment of government mandate. Inventory taking support is a standard ILS feature list component. |
| 03:34 | osmoze: What does Koha have to support systematically taking inventory to compare the material on the actual shelves and the in circulation records to the catalogue record of current holdings? | |
| 03:36 | osmoze | hello, one minute, i need to translate in this morning, it's hard ^^ |
| 03:37 | thd | :) Do you verify inventory at you library? |
| 03:38 | s/you library/your library | |
| 03:39 | osmoze | not at this time |
| 03:40 | but, if i should, i have phpmyadmin, so, it's same when we return book to the departemental librairy | |
| 03:40 | thd | osmoze: Do you know how it might be done in Koha? |
| 03:40 | osmoze | but, it's can be important in a module in koha |
| 03:41 | thd | osmoze: Do you know of such a module or script for Koha? |
| 03:42 | osmoze | no |
| 03:42 | maybe hdl know | |
| 03:42 | thd | s/module/component |
| 03:43 | hdl: Do you ever answer questions on weekend mornings? | |
| 03:43 | osmoze | lol |
| 03:45 | thd | I am trying to complete the feature list for the new koha.org website. |
| 03:46 | osmoze: I usually do not take much difference between weekends and weekdays. | |
| 03:47 | osmoze | it's a good feature :) but, my opinion is it's can be have two way : a listing for librarian by bulk for exemple, and by site. The seconde way is to have a page where scanning all book one by one (with a laptop for exemple) and after, make difference... no ? |
| 03:47 | excuse my poor and bad english ^^ | |
| 03:48 | hé hé, are you a geek ? ;) | |
| 03:48 | thd | osmoze: poor English is not bad. It is bad that I do not know enough French to communicate in even poor French. |
| 03:49 | osmoze | :) |
| 03:52 | thd | osmoze: I am a maniac about many things. I am, however, only an amateur programmer. I know library standards and the book trade to compensate for any lack of professionalism about programming. |
| 03:53 | osmoze | ^^ |
| 03:53 | i m just a geek ^^ | |
| 03:53 | thd | osmoze: The laptop example is what I was looking for some support for in Koha. |
| 03:54 | osmoze: Not a maniac? :) | |
| 03:59 | osmoze | yes, one day i search about a little computer to inventory or for book's return, like soekris |
| 04:00 | thd | osmoze: laptops are bulky and not light enough. A more portable barcode reading device should be used, the barcodes would then be offloaded to a file when the portable reader is full. |
| 04:01 | osmoze: soekris? | |
| 04:01 | osmoze | http://www.soekris.com/, litlle pc, but we can imagine a soekris not for net, but with a little screen 10" |
| 04:02 | and, it's a good idea for a big library to have a support to inform people | |
| 04:03 | it's not only a barecode reader | |
| 04:03 | you understand my idea | |
| 04:03 | it's like a embeded pc | |
| 04:04 | you have a little linux with wireless | |
| 04:04 | and you can make a lot of thing with | |
| 04:04 | it | |
| 04:05 | so, i m a dreamer ^^ | |
| 04:06 | and, the problem of a barecode reader that the librairy should be closed | |
| 04:06 | it's not real time ^^ | |
| 04:06 | thd | osmoze: what do you do for keyboard input in such a system? |
| 04:07 | osmoze | with screen, but, one day i ve seen a little keyboard like mobile phone with a pci connector |
| 04:08 | i don't know how to say screen that we can pût on | |
| 04:08 | thd | osmoze: some libraries that I know used to close for a week during summer for inventory. |
| 04:10 | osmoze: actually, libraries that I know had to verify inventory to comply with government mandate. | |
| 04:10 | osmoze | thd> but if you can make this when is open ? it's economic ( for supplementary hours) and you can do that step by step |
| 04:13 | thd | osmoze: there are real time wireless barcode readers. They cost much more than the portable ones that have no wireless access. |
| 04:15 | osmoze | hum... oki :) |
| 04:17 | thd | osmoze: Ideally the actual inventory would always match the existing record. In practice, that never happens. Book thieves and the mice that hide books do not record anything in the system. More importantly misshelving loses inventory. Misshelving is usually verified systematically at inventory time. |
| 04:29 | osmoze: The better system to track inventory is RAID with readers built into the shelves. | |
| 04:29 | s/RAID/RFID/ | |
| 04:31 | osmoze | or simply an ipaq :) |
| 04:32 | there are with an usb slot ( for barecode reader) and there are wireless built in | |
| 04:32 | with touch screen, and there are not so expansive | |
| 04:33 | exemple : http://www.filesaveas.com/pocketpc.html (the second) | |
| 04:38 | and it's really simply to adapt a linux into | |
| 04:44 | thd | osmoze: Ipaq and similar portable devices are a good idea. The special purpose barcode readers about which I was thinking are designed not to break when dropped from a tall ladder onto the concrete floor when inventorying the storage area. Those industrial devices cost multiples of the prices for similarly configured Ipaqs. |
| 04:52 | osmoze | yes, a solution for 300 $ with "étui" for awkward man |
| 04:52 | so, lunch time | |
| 04:52 | brb in 2 hours | |
| 08:50 | owen | Hi thd |
| 09:17 | kados | morning all |
| 09:18 | owen: quick question ... in a normal Koha install, how are staff supposed to pull out reserved items? | |
| 09:18 | owen | :) It's a mystery |
| 09:18 | Actually, chris just did some work on an existing reserves report script | |
| 09:18 | kados | ahh |
| 09:18 | owen | ...but I think it simply lists ALL reserves |
| 09:19 | We really need to figure out how to make our reserves process generic enough to share | |
| 09:19 | kados | which is probably not a bad thing for a single branch library ... |
| 09:19 | yea | |
| 09:19 | is it PHP or ColdFusion? | |
| 09:20 | owen | Most of the work is done by Perl...stuff that Stephen put together |
| 09:20 | reservereport.pl under reports in HEAD...that's the one chris recently worked on. | |
| 09:21 | The only aspect that is PHP for us is the display on the intranet | |
| 09:21 | kados | ahh |
| 09:21 | owen | And I'm sure it could very easily be redone in Perl. There's nothing particularly complex about it |
| 09:25 | Even a single branch library would want a reserve report that only listed items which were available | |
| 09:26 | kados | right |
| 09:27 | how does hlt survive without this feature? | |
| 09:27 | it's a real mystery | |
| 09:28 | owen | Yeah... I'm not sure. Maybe reserves aren't that common for them. Don't they charge for them? |
| 09:30 | kados | yea |
| 09:30 | so in rel_2_2 I see a reservereport.pl and reservereport.xls in cgi-bin | |
| 09:31 | not in reports/ | |
| 09:31 | owen | Those are older. Chris did some work on the reservereport.pl script and moved it into reports in HEAD |
| 09:31 | kados | yea ... found that too ... neither one is working on rel_2_2 ;-) |
| 09:34 | well ... for one reason, he didn't commit the cooresponding templates ;-) | |
| 09:34 | btw: is Koha's speed any better today for circ? | |
| 09:35 | owen | Cheryl says she thinks it is. To me everything is faster at The Plains |
| 09:35 | kados | right ;-) |
| 09:55 | owen | kados: it looks like he did commit the template, just not to the right location |
| 09:56 | kados | owen: right ... I've moved it but it still doesn't work ... |
| 09:57 | I just noticed another problem that you and I talked about earlier | |
| 09:57 | in the OPAC it's impossible to tell whether an item should be reserveable or not using Paul's new 'notforloan' scheme | |
| 09:57 | at least that I can tell | |
| 09:58 | owen | Hmm... that's no good |
| 09:59 | kados | yea ... I've written a note to the list |
| 09:59 | owen | Where does the problem lie? |
| 10:00 | kados | well ... there's no easy way to get a hash's key ... easy to get the value ... but not the key |
| 10:00 | so if you've got: | |
| 10:00 | 0 => In | |
| 10:00 | 1 => Withdrawn | |
| 10:01 | 2 => Lost | |
| 10:01 | etc. | |
| 10:01 | you can easily get the 'locally defined' value for each key | |
| 10:01 | but it's insane to hardcode that into the script | |
| 10:02 | what you really want is to run a simple check to see if an item should or should not be reservable | |
| 10:02 | in fact, maybe we need a whole different status field for that | |
| 10:03 | owen | Under what circumstances are things showing up as available for reserve when they shouldn't? |
| 10:05 | Looks like the opac understands that you can place a reserve if there are no copies, but it doesn't understand when you set an item type as not for loan | |
| 10:08 | kados | right |
| 10:08 | where is the custom reserve list report that NPL uses? | |
| 10:09 | (the perl part i mean ;-)) | |
| 10:09 | owen | You mean the script that builds the reserve list? |
| 10:09 | I don't know | |
| 10:09 | Is it a cron job? | |
| 10:09 | kados | ahh ... yes |
| 10:11 | hmmm ... yea this is pretty NPL-centric | |
| 10:11 | but I can probably hack together a generic version | |
| 10:11 | also, it builds a static text file rather than put the list in the db | |
| 10:11 | owen | yeah, because Stephen edits it somehow |
| 10:11 | kados | really? |
| 10:12 | for what? | |
| 10:12 | owen | He does some manipulations to determine what goes where, I think. Maybe I'm wrong |
| 10:12 | I guess he couldn't stay on top of that. That doesn't make sense. | |
| 10:14 | kados | ahaa ... there's a new table after all |
| 10:14 | reservelist | |
| 10:15 | owen | Yeah, that's what my PHP script draws from |
| 10:17 | kados | k ... I'm gonna try my hand at genericizing this and committing the whole shebang |
| 10:17 | db changes and all ;-) | |
| 10:31 | owen | Well, I got chris's script working on 101, FWIW |
| 10:48 | ...everything except dewey/classification | |
| 10:51 | kados | cool |
| 10:51 | I just got Stephen's script working on NBBC ;-) | |
| 10:52 | owen | Excellent |
| 10:52 | kados | well ... your php and stephen's script |
| 11:02 | owen: all of these custom scripts share the same problem | |
| 11:02 | the branch and itemtype data is hardcoded | |
| 11:02 | as is the mysql connect info, etc. | |
| 11:13 | owen | The php script doesn't belong anyway... it should be re-written. |
| 11:19 | kados | yea |
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