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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:51 | owen | Hey shaun |
| 12:51 | shaun | damn, that went in the wrong place |
| 12:52 | hi owen | |
| 12:52 | owen | So have you ever used Mambo before? |
| 12:53 | shaun | yep, for a couple of intranets, and i've severely hacked it on one of my publicly accessible sites (but will never, ever do that again...) |
| 12:53 | owen | why not? |
| 12:54 | shaun | it was painful, and i could have done it with wordpress in a tenth of the time |
| 12:54 | owen | Yeah, I've heard Wordpress is a good alternative to a full-blown CMS |
| 12:55 | I find Mambo so convoluted it drives me up the wall. | |
| 12:55 | shaun | i'm using it for a couple of sites now, including my own new one, and it is very impressive, particularly with K2 |
| 12:55 | owen | K2? |
| 12:56 | shaun | it's a theme that provides lots of additional functionality and allows WP to function a bit better as a cms, and a bit better as a blog too |
| 12:58 | owen | Do you have a link for that? |
| 12:59 | shaun | http://binarybonsai.com/k2/ |
| 13:05 | owen | Thanks. Looks nice. |
| 13:05 | We're talking about using Mambo for a sub-site here at my library | |
| 13:05 | I'm not sure what all the requirements are yet, though. | |
| 13:06 | shaun | how big is the site? i would recommend wordpress for any small multi-editor sites |
| 13:07 | owen | It's definitely small... But I'm not sure if Mambo has any bells-n-whistles that Wordpress doesn't |
| 13:10 | shaun | does complexity count as a bell or a whistle? :-) |
| 13:10 | owen | Not in an of itself, certainly. |
| 13:11 | and lots of things we might want only come as plug-ins to Mambo, like a forum and an event calendar | |
| 13:58 | So shaun, you've used wordpress as a CMS (rather than for a specifically blog-like site)? | |
| 14:04 | shaun | yes |
| 14:06 | my site combines a blog with some semi-static content (although it isn't there yet), | |
| 14:07 | the other site is something that i needed to get up and running within a matter of hours and ensure that the client could edit it herself without delving into html | |
| 14:47 | kados around? | |
| 17:27 | genjizzzz | rach, you available? |
| 17:50 | shaun | T-10 |
| 17:55 | T-5 | |
| 17:58 | kados | shaun: getting sleepy? ;-) |
| 17:59 | shaun | kados: nope, not yet, i've had enough caffeine to stay awake all night as it is |
| 17:59 | russ | hi shaun and kados |
| 18:00 | shaun | hi russ |
| 18:00 | kados | we're still waiting for ryan ... and I think owen's planning to be here as well |
| 18:00 | russ | sweet |
| 18:01 | richard | hi |
| 18:01 | kados | welcome richard, bob and owen |
| 18:01 | owen | Hi |
| 18:01 | kados | if you came for the meeting, we're still waiting for quorum |
| 18:01 | bob | hi |
| 18:02 | russ | i have asked bob and rich from katipo to sit in, as we are all interested in learning a bit more about mambo |
| 18:02 | kados | cool |
| 18:02 | I"m calling ryan | |
| 18:02 | russ | cool - once ryan is on deck will get cracking along |
| 18:03 | shaun | kados: would you be willing to take on my content page (support/contributing) or send me your support content? i doubt if i will be able to make the balance right by myself as you're doing the other support pages |
| 18:03 | russ | s/wil/we'll |
| 18:04 | shaun | i have cleared up the homepage modules a little bit (http://new.koha.org/mambo/), but i really need the template to go any further |
| 18:04 | kados | shaun: sure ... let's discuss it afterwards |
| 18:04 | hehe | |
| 18:04 | shaun | oops |
| 18:04 | kados | welcome everyone |
| 18:05 | shaun's topic is more complete ;-) | |
| 18:05 | so ... let's get started shall we? | |
| 18:05 | first off, let me introduce Ryan | |
| 18:05 | owen | That site looks familiar |
| 18:05 | ryan | hi, folks. |
| 18:05 | kados | he's my partner in crime from LibLime ;-) |
| 18:05 | who else is here? | |
| 18:06 | genji | Here, miss. |
| 18:06 | :) | |
| 18:07 | kados | we don't have a formal agenda |
| 18:07 | russ | well actually |
| 18:07 | kados | I think the main topic will be whether and how Mambo can be used for the koha.org site |
| 18:07 | unless russ has a agenda up ;-) | |
| 18:07 | in which case, he should run the meeting ;-) | |
| 18:07 | russ | no i dont have an agenda up (apologies for that) |
| 18:08 | kados | that's cool |
| 18:08 | russ | firstly just wanted to stress a couple of things |
| 18:08 | kados | k |
| 18:08 | russ | I don't want to debate which CMS we are going to use anymore |
| 18:09 | kados | ok ;-) |
| 18:09 | russ | if Mambo isnt going to cut it, then my back up plan is to use Kea |
| 18:09 | but I am pretty sure Mambo should be able to do what we want | |
| 18:09 | ryan | what are the sticky points with mambo? |
| 18:09 | russ | and if we could leave any discussion about the actual content till later |
| 18:10 | what I would like to talk about his how do we get a site in mambo | |
| 18:10 | to reflect the structure of the site map | |
| 18:10 | kados | I'm confused about that myself |
| 18:10 | russ | http://www.russandsarah.gen.nz[…]edev/sitemap.html |
| 18:11 | i am used to kea (our bespoke cms) which is uses a tree structure for content, so every heading in the sitemap has a page related to it and there is a strong sense of structure | |
| 18:12 | from what i can see with mambo - content objects are all thrown in together | |
| 18:12 | i have had a bit of a play with mambo on http://new.koha.org/mambo/ | |
| 18:12 | kados | I'm confused about sections and categories ... what the difference is |
| 18:13 | owen | Sections contain categories, which contain content items, right? |
| 18:13 | ryan | right. |
| 18:13 | russ | right so our sections are "About Koha" "Support" "Download Koha" ? |
| 18:14 | kados | 'showcase' and 'community' too right? |
| 18:15 | russ | and then within the About Koha section we have categories for |
| 18:15 | # News | |
| 18:15 | # Features | |
| 18:15 | # Koha Team | |
| 18:15 | # Koha History | |
| 18:15 | # Support/ Contribute to Koha | |
| 18:15 | # Awards | |
| 18:15 | # Case Studies | |
| 18:15 | # Testimonials | |
| 18:15 | # FAQ | |
| 18:15 | sorry kados - yep showcase and community are sections | |
| 18:16 | owen | ryan, does that sound like how you'd break it down? |
| 18:16 | ryan | yes. |
| 18:16 | russ | cool cos some of the pages will have the same names as the categories |
| 18:16 | for example Koha History - we will probablyonly have one page of content in there for starters | |
| 18:18 | kados | maybe ... maybe not ;-) |
| 18:18 | depending no how verbose I'm feeling ;-) | |
| 18:18 | russ | :-) |
| 18:18 | kados | but point well taken |
| 18:19 | russ | so setting up the right categories at the beginning is quite important? |
| 18:19 | ryan | The difficulty is the sections are for blog content... |
| 18:19 | kados | right ... I noticed that ... it is confusing |
| 18:19 | ryan | So I think you're limited in your design |
| 18:20 | russ | ah right |
| 18:20 | so if we have a look at shaun's design | |
| 18:20 | owen | I'm totally confused about 'blog content' etc. |
| 18:20 | ryan | the interface to edit content is basically a blog posting. |
| 18:22 | mambo's core is essentially for blogging. | |
| 18:22 | you'd add news items to categories in sections, right? | |
| 18:24 | owen | who's going to be in charge of making Mambo's template match shaun's design? |
| 18:24 | Seems like that's going to be a pain | |
| 18:25 | ryan | Probably not too hard to modify an existing free template. |
| 18:25 | shaun | i would if i had a testing ground - it seems as if mambo does not allow template editing through the admin interface, so i need to set up an identical site on one of my boxen or somehow get access at katipo |
| 18:26 | owen | Easy enough to do a local install |
| 18:30 | russ | ryan - modifing an existing template is that something shaun should be able to do through the mambo admin interface? |
| 18:30 | i have given him administrator privs | |
| 18:31 | ryan | to some extent. |
| 18:32 | it's just a bit clunky. | |
| 18:32 | owen | he can move stuff around, right, but he can't edit actual template files through the Mambo interface can he? |
| 18:32 | ryan | you can edit the css. |
| 18:32 | but not the core mambo css. | |
| 18:33 | sometimes it's useful to edit the mambo stuff as well. | |
| 18:33 | shaun | the css isn't really enough - the html needs a total rehaul |
| 18:33 | ryan | also the template php is editable. |
| 18:33 | (thru the interface) | |
| 18:34 | russ | hmm this is all starting to sound hard very quickly |
| 18:34 | owen | Everything in Mambo seems hard to me...I was hoping it was just that I was a newbie. |
| 18:35 | ryan | in theory, the template is all you need to change. |
| 18:35 | but i've found altering the mambo css necessary to get the right look. | |
| 18:35 | shaun | and the modules, i think (?) |
| 18:35 | ryan | otherwise, if you can find a template with roughly the right layout, it's not too difficult. |
| 18:36 | right, you'll have to also edit all the module css. | |
| 18:37 | where is shaun's design? | |
| 18:37 | kados | http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/koha/index.php |
| 18:37 | shaun | http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/koha/content.php for the inner pages |
| 18:39 | ryan | nice. |
| 18:39 | richard | yeah |
| 18:39 | russ | so we should be looking for a template that we can alter? |
| 18:40 | ryan | actually, the solar flare might work fine. |
| 18:40 | shaun | ryan: it uses tables, they make me cry |
| 18:40 | owen | I don't know if you can escape them in Mambo |
| 18:41 | ryan | yeah. I think tables are easier for mambo. |
| 18:41 | russ | hmm ok |
| 18:42 | shaun | russ: drupal? typo3? |
| 18:42 | russ | simply cos the katipo crew can get shaun's design into kea with a template |
| 18:42 | in less than two days | |
| 18:42 | shaun | owen: wordpress ;-) |
| 18:42 | owen | russ, your comment really makes me want to try Kea :) |
| 18:42 | shaun | http://www.mamboserver.com/ have done it, if you look at the code - although it's nowhere near as complex as my design |
| 18:42 | ryan | by changing the content, you'll end up with two columns at bottom of page |
| 18:43 | and generally the right layout. | |
| 18:46 | russ | oh dear |
| 18:46 | richard | erk |
| 18:46 | russ | yikes where did everyone go |
| 18:47 | bob | looks like the rest of the world has fallen off |
| 19:02 | russ | ok looks like everyone coming back |
| 19:03 | richard | yeah |
| 19:03 | kados | wha happened ? ;-) |
| 19:04 | russ | no idea |
| 19:04 | i just want to check where we are at with this template thing | |
| 19:05 | with mambo the easiest way to customise a template it to take an existing template and change the css | |
| 19:05 | there are some things that you can't or are ver difficult to change cos mambo likes the code a certain way | |
| 19:06 | so if we take a template | |
| 19:06 | and customise it to look right | |
| 19:06 | we may have to put up with code that we aren't all that happy with | |
| 19:07 | owen | Particularly if you want to be able to have a smooth upgrade the next time mambo comes out with a major new version |
| 19:07 | russ | right |
| 19:07 | owen | Nobody wants to go in and re-edit those templates again |
| 19:07 | kados | hello? |
| 19:07 | russ | hi kados |
| 19:07 | kados | are we back up? |
| 19:07 | owen | Looks like it |
| 19:07 | kados | cool |
| 19:08 | owen | NZ'ers were immune. |
| 19:08 | chris | only some of em |
| 19:08 | genji fell off too | |
| 19:08 | i suspect one of the biggish isps had a problem | |
| 19:09 | russ | i am starting to worry about how much time we could sink into mambo and then we could end up with something that we are still not happy with |
| 19:09 | does that sound fair? | |
| 19:10 | kados | yep |
| 19:10 | owen | russ, that sounds very fair given you have a good grasp of what Kea is capable of |
| 19:11 | russ | i think it is just going to be easier to do it in kea - seeing as shaun has done all the hard work of building the template already |
| 19:11 | we can get that into kea ready to to load content in by the weekend | |
| 19:11 | kados | that's cool |
| 19:12 | fine with me really | |
| 19:12 | russ | oh well next time |
| 19:13 | ok so moving on from here - i'll take what shaun has done and load it into kea | |
| 19:13 | and i'll setup up users so people can get in | |
| 19:15 | kados | sounds good |
| 19:16 | anything else to discuss? | |
| 19:16 | russ | nope i dont think so |
| 19:16 | i hope the content writing is going well | |
| 19:16 | kados | cool ... I'm gonna take off then |
| 19:16 | yea ... getting there | |
| 19:16 | I'll send you what I have tonight | |
| 19:16 | promise ;-) | |
| 19:16 | russ | :-) |
| 19:17 | ok i gotta go as well | |
| 19:17 | i will send an email to the list about the change | |
| 19:17 | thanks everyone - especially ryan for scaring me | |
| 19:19 | owen | ryan, I don't think that was your intention :) |
| 19:20 | ryan | not really, but mambo does have its limitations... |
| 19:23 | owen | ryan, are there sites online that you've done with Mambo? Liblime, right? |
| 19:25 | ryan | support.liblime.com, mambo.liblime.com |
| 19:26 | and my sister's wedding information site, amberandgreg.com :) | |
| 19:27 | owen | ryan, have you tried other forum plugins besides the simpleboard one? What do you think of it? |
| 19:29 | ryan | owen, simpleboard is okay, but limited. Other forums are more full featured, stand-alone apps with some code to link them to mambo. |
| 19:29 | What mambo is good for, imo, is throwing together a decent looking, working site fast. | |
| 19:30 | owen | You did a good job on the liblime mambo demo and your family site of making it look non-Mambo-like, which to me is a sign of success. |
| 19:31 | ryan | thx; really, the template customization isn't too bad. |
| 19:31 | but keeping versions upt o date is a problem. | |
| 19:31 | owen | NBBC's site is Mambo too, isn't it? |
| 19:32 | ryan | you mean the customer support site? |
| 19:32 | owen | Their actual site http://www.nbbc.edu |
| 19:33 | ryan | yes. i guess so. |
| 19:34 | not a bad looking site. | |
| 19:39 | shaun | The Fight |
| 19:39 | Is On | |
| 19:39 | russ | hi shaun - you made it back |
| 19:40 | fyi - bob from katipo is loading your pages into kea, we'll have the site setup and ready to load in content by the end of the day | |
| 19:41 | using the html that you have written | |
| 19:41 | shaun | hi - yep - did the dns change at irc.citylink.co.nz? the ip was different to usual |
| 19:41 | russ | i think one of the isps we use wigged out a bit |
| 19:41 | chris | the number looks the same to me |
| 19:42 | yo | |
| 19:42 | whoops wrong channel :-) | |
| 19:42 | russ | shaun - i'll send you a kea login one it is loaded in and we can take it from there |
| 19:44 | shaun | so no chance of using another cms then? btw: i still have a couple of changes to make to the homepage but they are minimal |
| 19:44 | si | irc.citylink.co.nz got fixed yesterday, so that it does actually point at an irc server |
| 19:45 | russ | shaun - i'll give you a login to kea once the homepage is loaded in |
| 19:46 | so you can make the changes | |
| 20:05 | shaun | russ: have you finished with the files at my end? |
| 02:14 | osmoze | hello |
| 02:32 | hdl | hello |
| 04:08 | paul_away? | |
| 04:28 | Sylvain | arg, cvs broken ? :( |
| 05:01 | hdl | sylvain ? |
| 05:01 | Tu dis cvs broken ? Quelle version ? | |
| 05:02 | HEAD was under construction for ZEBRA. Paul worte a note about this. | |
| 05:07 | Sylvain | non, hdl juste que j'arrivais pas à updater depuis sourceforge |
| 05:07 | c'est revenu | |
| 06:09 | shaun | wow |
| 06:09 | anybody else checked out kea? | |
| 06:09 | si | shaun: I've used it |
| 06:10 | shaun | i know you have ;-), i was talking about the new koha site in kea, it looks very impressive with so little work |
| 06:11 | si | there's been a fair amount of work gone into kea :-) |
| 06:11 | shaun | i can tell, it looks awesome |
| 06:14 | who's been working on this particular site at the katipo end? | |
| 06:14 | si | no idea |
| 06:14 | russ and his band of slaves, presumably | |
| 06:16 | if it works, yo do | |
| 06:18 | Sylvain | shaun what's the url of the kohasite with kea ? |
| 06:19 | shaun | i'm not sure whether it's allowed for sharing yet - i could only access it with a un+pw given to me by russ |
| 06:19 | Sylvain | ok, it must be the url in the mail so, I tried to access and was asked a login/pwd :) |
| 06:20 | shaun | yeah - i won't do the make public thing, i'll leave that to a katipo wizard |
| 06:20 | Sylvain | ok, no problem |
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