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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:30 | slef | anyone like that email? |
| 12:30 | the summary one | |
| 13:51 | pate | yeah, i did |
| 14:05 | slef | I wonder if I can do those weekly :-/ |
| 14:55 | paul | slef : would be great. |
| 14:57 | kados | slef: thanks for the summary! |
| 14:57 | slef: it's something I've been meaning to do but didn't get around to | |
| 15:12 | sweet ... I've got a zap web-based Z39.50 server working: | |
| 15:12 | s/server/client/ | |
| 15:12 | http://liblime.com/zap/try.html | |
| 15:13 | Still having probs with that large dataset so the search on the localhost doesn't work | |
| 15:13 | but you can search NPLs data using the following setting: | |
| 15:13 | 66.213.78.76:9999/VOYAGER | |
| 15:13 | (under 'server') | |
| 15:14 | I guess you have to use USMARC to get results | |
| 15:14 | huh ... maybe not | |
| 15:15 | owen | SUTRS works, but not HTML |
| 15:15 | kados | right |
| 15:15 | heh xml does though | |
| 15:15 | owen | What's SUTRS? |
| 15:15 | Couldn't be much faster | |
| 15:15 | kados | it's a text based record format |
| 15:16 | we'll see how it fares on the big dataset as soon as I resolve my path problems | |
| 15:20 | sanspach | something odd with charset translation though--standard european diacritics are displaying as Chinese characters! |
| 15:26 | kados | here's an advanced query page: |
| 15:26 | http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html | |
| 15:26 | (still just a proof of concept) | |
| 15:26 | but here you can request from multiple sources and get results back | |
| 15:27 | something like this with an integrated MARC editor will probably be a good solution for catalogers | |
| 15:27 | sanspach: could you give me an example? | |
| 15:28 | sanspach | searching es33.uits.indiana.edu:2200/Unicorn for author=durrenmatt retrieves great examples |
| 15:28 | available via LC's gateway under Indiana University for useful side-by-side compare | |
| 15:28 | kados | right |
| 15:29 | interesting | |
| 15:29 | they are displaying as ? for me | |
| 15:30 | I'll have to figure out what to do with different charsets | |
| 15:30 | I think utf8 all the way for display | |
| 15:30 | sanspach | I got mix of Chinese and the square boxes (which usually means Unicode char. not displayable w/installed fonts) |
| 15:30 | kados | right |
| 15:31 | sanspach | odd the way the chars are corrupted, though--problem for both composite character *and* next one |
| 15:33 | instead of D!rrenmatt for D\:urrenmatt it is D!!renmatt (where ! is bad char) | |
| 15:33 | and M!!chen instead of M!nchen | |
| 15:33 | kados | right |
| 15:33 | not sure why ... I'll have to look into it | |
| 15:35 | slef | u-umlaut is 2-bytes in utf8 IIRC |
| 15:36 | oh wait | |
| 16:48 | owen | hi rach |
| 16:48 | rach | hi |
| 16:54 | owen | bye rach ;) |
| 19:36 | kados | http://olinks.sourceforge.net/ |
| 19:36 | http://www.theresearcher.ca/index.html | |
| 19:37 | it'd be nice to have openurl, and link resolution integrated into Koha | |
| 19:38 | chris around? | |
| 19:39 | hey owen | |
| 19:39 | owen | hey |
| 19:39 | kados | what's up? |
| 19:39 | chris | yep, pretty busy though, whats up? |
| 19:39 | kados | http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html |
| 19:39 | that's the advanced page | |
| 19:40 | here's the simple: | |
| 19:40 | http://liblime.com/zap/try.html | |
| 19:40 | zap is a web-based z39.50 client | |
| 19:40 | chris | right |
| 19:40 | thats fast | |
| 19:40 | unfortunately now we need to slow it down some | |
| 19:41 | by adding other stuff | |
| 19:41 | kados | right |
| 19:41 | chris | but it still should be faster overall i think |
| 19:41 | kados | yep |
| 19:41 | chris | (ie we want to be able to search by branch, only return itmes that arent lost to the opac etc) |
| 19:42 | kados | actually, searching by branch could just be a seperate index |
| 19:42 | chris | hhmmm |
| 19:42 | u want to be talking to the real db for item stuff | |
| 19:42 | kados | and returning non-lost items is pretty easy too since we do the items query after we do thte marc query |
| 19:42 | chris | it changes a lot |
| 19:42 | kados | yep |
| 19:42 | but that part of the search (now) is really fast | |
| 19:42 | chris | yep |
| 19:42 | kados | it's the initial marc_word that's so slow |
| 19:42 | chris | so you get a bunch of biblionumbers |
| 19:43 | and then return only the ones with items that match our criteria | |
| 19:43 | kados | we shouldn't even need to change our item-query section at all |
| 19:43 | chris | shouldnt be to hard to do |
| 19:43 | kados | it already does the stuff we need it to do |
| 19:43 | chris | true |
| 19:43 | kados | we just need a yaz wrapper to grab the biblionumbers |
| 19:43 | chris | yep |
| 19:43 | kados | I'm gonna try to get to that tonight |
| 19:43 | chris | Net::z3950 |
| 19:43 | kados | yep |
| 19:44 | well ... dinner first ;-) | |
| 19:44 | chris | take a look at teh z3950 client |
| 19:44 | kados | ok |
| 19:44 | chris | its pretty much the base for it |
| 19:44 | kados | i'm gonna really look closely at zap as well |
| 19:44 | chris | we dont need to do the daemonising etc either |
| 19:46 | i now have an xml file of the bibliographical data for the new library we are doing an install for | |
| 19:46 | thanks to good IBM documentation and a smart local ex system librarian | |
| 19:46 | kados | sweet |
| 19:48 | chris | <ROOT> |
| 19:48 | <BIB _ID = "15009"> | |
| 19:48 | <TITLE_MV TITLE = "Behind the tattooed face"/> | |
| 19:48 | <AUTHOR_MV AUTHOR = "BAKER, Heretaunga Pat"/> | |
| 19:48 | <PUBLISHER_MV/> | |
| 19:48 | <BARCODE2_MV BARCODE2 = "31506000153634"/> | |
| 19:48 | it doesnt get much easier to parse than that | |
| 19:48 | kados | hehe |
| 19:48 | dynix exports in xml eh? | |
| 19:48 | chris | nope |
| 19:49 | but universe the underlying database can be made to | |
| 19:49 | kados | ahh |
| 19:49 | I'm surprised it doesn't export to MARC | |
| 19:49 | chris | it does |
| 19:49 | if you pay someone to set it up for you | |
| 19:50 | kados | ahh ... right ... that's what spydus does |
| 19:50 | it's broken ... you pay them $2K and they change a line in the code somewhere and whalla it works ;-) | |
| 19:50 | chris | yeah |
| 19:50 | crippleware | |
| 19:50 | kados | yep |
| 19:51 | chris | you can only get away with that in software |
| 19:51 | kados | it's pretty sad how many librarians don't realize it's setup that way |
| 19:51 | it's their data but they can't get to it | |
| 19:51 | chris | exactly |
| 19:53 | slef | MuggingWare |
| 02:16 | hdl | hi |
| 02:18 | osmoze | hi hdl :) |
| 03:47 | chris | evening |
| 03:47 | paul | chris is not sleeping yet ? |
| 03:48 | chris | its only 8.48pm |
| 03:48 | im watching some tv before bed | |
| 03:48 | paul | right. We are in summer time. So there is only 10hours between us. |
| 03:48 | (GMT+12 vs GMT+2) | |
| 03:48 | chris | right |
| 03:49 | dynix -> xml -> koha | |
| 03:50 | there seems to be plenty of koha work on around the world at the moment | |
| 03:50 | its good to see | |
| 03:51 | paul | some code from argentina & my hapiness would be complete ! |
| 03:51 | chris | :) |
| 04:03 | slef | new debian 3.1 out now |
| 04:03 | chris | yep, saw that :) |
| 04:04 | gonna have to schedule a time to do an upgrade for our servers, .. and reinstall a bunch of perl modules | |
| 04:04 | heh | |
| 06:07 | kados | paul: what does the dictionary search do? |
| 06:07 | paul good afternoon ;-) | |
| 06:24 | slef about? | |
| 06:25 | here's a planet installation that seems able to handle my html: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/code4lib/ | |
| 07:03 | hdl | kados : dictionary search allows ppl to search among all authorities even rejected forms. |
| 07:04 | paul | the search is on authorities & on existing values in biblio titles / authors / subjects. |
| 07:04 | should be an help for user not knowing exactly how to write what he is looking for | |
| 07:05 | (what is the surname of Hugo, the author i'm looking for... let me see what exists in this library about hugo...) | |
| 07:05 | (s/surname/firstname/) | |
| 07:06 | kados | right |
| 07:06 | thanks | |
| 07:06 | paul | note that it searchs in 2 parts : authorities and existing values. |
| 07:07 | so libraries without authorities should be happy as well as others. | |
| 07:07 | kados | can't we import authorities from the library of congress for free (or the bibliotech de france)? |
| 07:08 | (so authorities would come 'pre-loaded' in Koha? | |
| 07:08 | (or are authorities usually defined by the library) | |
| 07:08 | paul | there are possibilities to do such things. |
| 07:08 | both in fact ;-) | |
| 07:08 | kados | (I don't understand the process since NPL doesn't use authorities) |
| 07:08 | ahh | |
| 07:08 | paul | some very specialised libraries have a specific authority list. like CMI (mathematics, that uses AMS thesaurus) |
| 07:09 | most libraries uses a common authority list. | |
| 07:09 | In france, you can get authorities from BNF, Rameau. | |
| 07:09 | kados | it would be really nice if we preloaded some standard 'common' authoritiy list and had it auto-update |
| 07:09 | paul | yes but no. |
| 07:09 | kados | (not nice for everyone ;-)) |
| 07:10 | paul | even for a library that uses Rameau, the complete rameau thesaurus is unuseable : 420 000 entries just for personal names. |
| 07:11 | but let's ignore personal names, that are not heavily used. | |
| 07:11 | let speak about subject. | |
| 07:11 | even there, a thesaurus like Rameau is far far too wide for a public library. | |
| 07:11 | and not specialized enough for a specialized library. | |
| 07:12 | so, here in France, everybody want Rameau, but nobody uses it ;-) except when you get your biblio from BNF too | |
| 07:12 | because in this case, you have biblios & authorities coming from the same source. | |
| 07:16 | slef | kados: I don't use planet itself and you should use 1999's xhtml by now. |
| 07:16 | :) | |
| 07:16 | I will work on the underlying libraries for planet koha probably next week, though. | |
| 07:17 | or maybe this week if stuff goes well | |
| 07:17 | kados | :-) |
| 07:17 | slef | planet has 2 big problems: it doesn't handle incoming items cleanly (which leads to planet-spam whenever someone updates a blosxom install) and it's in python |
| 07:18 | kados | gotcha |
| 07:22 | paul | kados : did you see askjeeves extended features. Could be really nice in an OPAC |
| 07:22 | http://sp.ask.com/docs/mj/1.1/tour_intro.html | |
| 07:27 | kados | paul: that would be really easy |
| 07:27 | paul: I did a 'answers.com' | |
| 07:27 | it's not finished yet (broken right now) | |
| 07:27 | I'll look into askjeeves as well | |
| 07:35 | paul, slef, hdl, Genji can I schedule the next bugsquashing meeting for Thursday June 9th at 14:00 UTC(GMT): in your time: http://tinyurl.com/dloaw | |
| 07:36 | paul | i won't be here. |
| 07:36 | (neither hdl) | |
| 07:36 | kados | paul: how about friday? |
| 07:36 | paul | morning for me could be OK, but not evening. |
| 07:36 | (i'll be on Perl conference, see mail on koha-devel) | |
| 07:37 | kados | ahh ... right |
| 07:37 | how about next tuesday? | |
| 07:37 | Genji | anytime, anyday is okay. |
| 07:37 | kados | in your time: http://tinyurl.com/asl8y |
| 07:37 | paul | ok for me, after 15GMT, because i have to get my 1st son at school exit. |
| 07:37 | kados | ok ... how about hdl? |
| 07:38 | Genji | Err.. except 5:30pm to 10pm Wensday and friday. Japanese drumming. |
| 07:38 | hdl | ok for me... |
| 07:38 | kados | slef: ? |
| 07:38 | Genji | i need a specific time |
| 07:38 | kados | Genji: http://tinyurl.com/779cy |
| 07:39 | Genji | Wha, that in 3 hours? |
| 07:40 | kados | slef: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 at 15:00 UTC work for a Bugsquash meeting? |
| 07:40 | Genji: no... next week ;-) | |
| 07:40 | Genji | ah. good. ya. ill take it. |
| 07:40 | kados | cool |
| 07:46 | slef | kados: I'm out from 11am Friday until Sunday. Might be out Thursday lunchtime. |
| 07:46 | Tuesday 14 ok. | |
| 07:46 | in fact looks fine | |
| 07:47 | kados | cool |
| 07:47 | paul: can you test this URL ? http://tinyurl.com/as66z | |
| 07:47 | paul | yes and ? |
| 07:47 | kados | paul: it should return bugzilla with 68 bugs listed by order of importance |
| 07:47 | paul | right. |
| 07:47 | kados | great ... |
| 07:47 | thanks | |
| 07:48 | paul | some still assigned to steve tonnesen... |
| 07:48 | we should really update some bugzilla parameters... | |
| 07:49 | how do you do to write tinyurl so quickly ? | |
| 07:50 | kados | paul: go to tinyurl.com ;-) |
| 07:50 | paul: I can do that now (chris gave me bugzilla superpowers ;-)) | |
| 07:50 | paul: I'll do it as soon as I"m done with this email | |
| 07:51 | paul | I know this service. just wanted to know if you had a specific tool to write them so quickly or if you had a tab always open on this page. |
| 07:52 | kados | paul: tab ;-) |
| 07:54 | paul: who should have simple acquisitions, authentication, and parameters? | |
| 07:55 | paul | is it possible to have an owner by version ? |
| 07:55 | kados | hmmm, I don't think so |
| 07:55 | paul | so parameters => me |
| 07:55 | acquisition => chris | |
| 07:55 | auth => dunno (probably not me) | |
| 07:55 | (are there bugs about authentication in fact ?) | |
| 07:56 | kados | hehe good question |
| 07:57 | only three | |
| 07:57 | for version 2.0 | |
| 07:58 | I'll put chris | |
| 07:58 | paul: any new categories to add? | |
| 07:59 | paul | stats maybe ? |
| 07:59 | & not sure acquisition.simple still means something. | |
| 08:00 | kados | right |
| 08:01 | I'll ask katipo about that | |
| 08:01 | stats => paul ? | |
| 08:01 | paul | hdl |
| 08:01 | kados | and whats the description for this component? |
| 08:01 | paul | statistics & reports |
| 08:07 | kados | paul: any news from Emiliano? If not I'll write him another email ;-) |
| 08:07 | paul | no news. hélas. |
| 08:10 | kados | as a joke ;-) |
| 08:11 | paul | be careful not to be ranked as spammer by his spamassassin... |
| 08:11 | (but could be fun anyway) | |
| 08:50 | kados : i've parsed the 20 first bugs from your previous tinyurl | |
| 08:50 | none of them can be fixed with more informations or strategic chat. | |
| 08:51 | s/with/without/ | |
| 08:51 | & at least 2 or 3 should be fixed already | |
| 08:51 | so, the meeting will be very interesting ;-) | |
| 08:53 | kados | paul: :-) |
| 08:53 | paul | 2.2.3 is really close to be "releasable" |
| 08:53 | kados | paul: hopefully we'll get feedback by next week |
| 08:53 | great! | |
| 08:53 | paul | what is your opinion about next bugsquashing : should I wait or not ? |
| 08:53 | i think that I should release 2.2.3 | |
| 08:54 | kados | go ahead |
| 08:54 | IMO | |
| 08:54 | paul | (after a translating time) |
| 08:54 | kados | realease early and often ;-) |
| 08:54 | paul | ok, i announce 2.2.3 for next monday. |
| 08:54 | kados | paul: but let owen catch up |
| 08:54 | paul | (to devel & translate lists) |
| 09:14 | slef | paul: I'll try to work the options out to avoid rel_2_2 |
| 09:15 | paul | slef : but it's interesting to know what happends on rel_2_2 |
| 09:15 | (even if it should become only a little traffic) | |
| 09:17 | slef | hey, that log doesn't have any rel_2_2 as far as I can tell |
| 09:37 | paul | 'morning owen. |
| 09:37 | owen | Hi paul |
| 09:38 | paul | will you stay around here ? |
| 09:39 | owen | I'll be here all day |
| 09:56 | kados | paul: it'd be nice if we could put together a "Koha Research Toolbar" |
| 09:56 | where you could store lots of different links -- search results being only one type | |
| 09:56 | web urls (so a bookmarks section) | |
| 09:56 | images | |
| 09:57 | we could also integrate search APIs from other collections/ILSes | |
| 10:03 | hdl | kados : would it be developped in XUL ? |
| 10:09 | kados | hdl: not sure ... I've never done a firefox extension |
| 10:10 | chris would probably have some suggestions | |
| 11:14 | FrancoisL: howdy! | |
| 11:15 | FrancoisL | howdy, Joshua ! How's life ? |
| 11:15 | I'll be with the SAN tomorrow to list all functions we'll program - 'll keep you posted. | |
| 11:15 | kados | great! |
| 11:15 | I'll look forward to reading it ;-) | |
| 11:15 | paul | don't forget to add me to the mail. |
| 11:15 | kados | things are well here |
| 11:16 | FrancoisL | won't ! |
| 11:16 | kados | FrancoisL: have you seen the new searching 'proof of concept'? |
| 11:16 | http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html | |
| 11:16 | it's very fast | |
| 11:16 | (only the Nelsonville checkbox is working atm) | |
| 11:17 | FrancoisL | Kool ! Is it through a z3950 client ? |
| 11:17 | kados | FrancoisL: yep |
| 11:17 | FrancoisL | kudos to kados... |
| 11:21 | Zap! is fazt! | |
| 11:21 | kados | FrancoisL: yep ... I'm working on a LibLime database that's 5 million items too |
| 11:21 | paul | right. |
| 11:21 | kados | FrancoisL: actually, it's the engine doing the Z39.50 magic that's fast. |
| 11:22 | FrancoisL | kados: will it make it into next release ? |
| 11:22 | kados | FrancoisL: server magic that is -- it's Zebra |
| 11:22 | FrancoisL: definitely | |
| 11:22 | FrancoisL | That's good news for the SANe. |
| 11:22 | kados | FrancoisL: I'm hoping to have the 5Million records working in the next few days |
| 11:22 | FrancoisL: then we can really test the speed ;-) | |
| 11:22 | FrancoisL: currently, NPL has 150K biblios | |
| 11:23 | FrancoisL: so 5 Million is quite a few more ;-) | |
| 11:23 | FrancoisL | Can you wire the library of congress + French BnF ? Must be more than xxx mill. ! |
| 11:23 | There's a public Z3950 server in BnF (hey, Paul !) | |
| 11:24 | kados | FrancoisL: I wonder if we could get access to the MARC records in LOC or BnF |
| 11:24 | FrancoisL: we could do a 'proof of concept' Koha install for them ;-) | |
| 11:24 | paul | in fact, francoisL, the idea is to use this server for searching in koha, instead of internal search. |
| 11:25 | FrancoisL | Sounds like a good idea as it's faster and... does not rely on Marc_words (?) |
| 11:25 | kados | searching currently is broken into two parts |
| 11:25 | FrancoisL: exactly | |
| 11:25 | first, find biblio numbers | |
| 11:25 | second, get item info for all items attached to those biblios | |
| 11:25 | I plan to use Zebra for step 1 | |
| 11:26 | paul | kados : the z3950 server of BNF is public, needs no authentification, but can be slow. |
| 11:26 | kados | step 2 is actually quite fast |
| 11:26 | paul: can we download ALL the records? | |
| 11:26 | paul | as slow as LoC in fact ;-) |
| 11:26 | kados | paul: is there some way to scrape it? |
| 11:26 | paul | I don't think so. |
| 11:26 | FrancoisL | Step 2 is staightforward MySQL... |
| 11:26 | kados | FrancoisL: right |
| 11:26 | paul | but, francoisL, could you request SAN to see if they have a CDROM ? |
| 11:26 | (as BNF also publish cd that are free for libraries) | |
| 11:26 | kados | so I'm working on a Yaz wrapper to do the initial query ... shoudl have something later this week |
| 11:26 | FrancoisL | What CDROM ? Opale ? |
| 11:26 | paul | (the problem being i'm not a library) |
| 11:27 | I think so. | |
| 11:27 | kados | paul: right |
| 11:27 | if we could get a "super large" data set xxx million records | |
| 11:27 | that would be really great | |
| 11:27 | FrancoisL | OK I'll ask them tomorrow. |
| 11:27 | (and in... french too !) | |
| 11:27 | kados | (though 5 mill is quite large) |
| 11:27 | right ;-) | |
| 11:28 | also note that the MARC file for 5 million records is 4.5 gig | |
| 11:28 | FrancoisL | I think size does not matter - provided it's more than 200 K or so... |
| 11:28 | paul | note joshua, that it would be unimarc, not usmarc. |
| 11:28 | but that does not matter probably | |
| 11:28 | kados | paul: yea ... I didn't see an easy way for Zebra to parse that |
| 11:28 | paul: but I didn't look too hard | |
| 11:29 | paul | mmm... very bad news... |
| 11:29 | kados | paul: it's easier than you think |
| 11:29 | download, install | |
| 11:29 | export records to raw marc | |
| 11:29 | move records file to test/unimarc/records | |
| 11:30 | edit test/unimarc/zebra.cfg to add any options you need (default ones are fine though) | |
| 11:30 | run test.sh | |
| 11:30 | it will index records and automatically start the server | |
| 11:30 | paul | yes, but in unimarc, title is in 200$a, not in 245, so i'm wondering how zebra can handle that ! |
| 11:31 | kados | well I'm assuming that test/unimarc/ knows that ;-) |
| 11:31 | if not you can edit zebra.cfg to specify which things to index | |
| 11:31 | syntax is pretty simple | |
| 11:31 | there is no test/unimarc | |
| 11:32 | so you will need to write a zebra.cfg for unimarc | |
| 11:32 | there's a marcxml | |
| 11:32 | rsusmarc | |
| 11:32 | and usmarc | |
| 11:32 | (also some others like dmoz ;-) | |
| 11:33 | FrancoisL | Let's say we want to display the title and author field in an USMARC record. The title is stored in field 245, subfield a and the author name is stored in field 100 where the subfields for surname is a and for first name it is h. This would look something like this in ZAP: |
| 11:33 | %%format usmarc | |
| 11:33 | 245 | |
| 11:33 | 245/* | |
| 11:33 | 245/*/a "<B>Title:</B> $data" | |
| 11:33 | 100 | |
| 11:33 | 100/* | |
| 11:33 | 100/*/a "<br><B>Author:</B> $data" | |
| 11:33 | 100/*/h ", $data" | |
| 11:33 | ||
| 11:33 | Given the values "The Ugly Ducklin", "Hans Christian " and "Andersen" for title, first name and surname, respectively, the output would be: | |
| 11:33 | <B>Title:</B> The Ugly Ducklin | |
| 11:33 | <B>Author:</B>Andersen, Hans Christian | |
| 11:33 | The change should be painful but quick :) | |
| 11:34 | paul | I must leave now. Farewell |
| 11:35 | FrancoisL | bye ! |
| 11:35 | Leaving too - see ya all ! | |
| 11:35 | kados | bye all |
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