sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/koha co koha← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 12:00 | slef | kados: you don't like XML? |
| 12:01 | kados | slef: why do you say that? |
| 12:01 | slef | well, really simple syndication uses only a subset of XML |
| 12:01 | (really simple syndication = rss 2) | |
| 12:01 | (RDF Site Summary = rss 1) | |
| 12:01 | (related but different things) | |
| 12:02 | rss 1 descends from my netscape and RDF into XML with namespaces and modules and ah-hoo ah-ha | |
| 12:02 | kados | right ... ok ... so then my rss is actually rss 1 |
| 12:02 | it's RDF | |
| 12:02 | slef | rss 2 descends from scriptingnews and microsoft channel description format into dave winer's world |
| 12:03 | kados | rdf:RDF xml:lang="en" |
| 12:03 | slef | what isn't it catching for you? |
| 12:04 | kados | here's my feed: |
| 12:04 | http://kados.org/cgi-bin/blosx[…]og/koha/index.rss | |
| 12:04 | the first item | |
| 12:04 | "Release Manager for Koha 2.4" | |
| 12:04 | isn't showing up | |
| 12:05 | slef | It is, but it's not on the front page |
| 12:05 | kados | and it looks like instead of ordering them by date, it's ordering by person |
| 12:05 | slef | no, it orders them by appearance |
| 12:05 | kados | by appearance? |
| 12:05 | slef | each run, it does an ordered set calculation... 1mo and I'll find the note |
| 12:06 | kados | I don't see a link to see an archive anywhere either |
| 12:06 | slef | line below header, "Archive" |
| 12:06 | not best place for it, but it's bodged | |
| 12:07 | aggregate_i+1 = (blogs / aggregate_i) u (aggregate_i n blogs) | |
| 12:08 | where _ is a subscript, / is difference, u is ordered union with left first and n is intersection that preserves order | |
| 12:08 | basically, when I moved from your full feed to your old feed, a load of old posts appeared in "blogs" in that calculation, so they went on the front | |
| 12:08 | (as they weren't in aggregate_i, they didn't get differenced out) | |
| 12:09 | over time, it'll settle down | |
| 12:09 | biab | |
| 12:35 | shaun | do we currently consider ourselves to be the "leading open source integrated library system"? |
| 12:36 | kados | yes |
| 12:36 | until PINES finishes Evergreen ;-) | |
| 12:36 | then they'll have about 250 more sites than us ;-) | |
| 12:37 | I think we've been branding ourselves as 'the first open source ILS' | |
| 12:37 | (or open-source ILS if you want to get gramatical) | |
| 12:39 | shaun | I'm looking for a snazzy tagline to accompany the next release, e.g. "The new version of the award-winning open source library system..." |
| 12:40 | owen | Koha 2.4: No fatal accidents since 1987! |
| 12:41 | shaun | heh |
| 12:41 | owen, what have you been on these past few days? | |
| 12:52 | kados | hehe |
| 13:01 | Website/Interface Design Meeting in about an hour | |
| 13:06 | shaun | counting down... damn, my clock is wrong |
| 13:06 | slef | moo |
| 13:25 | kados | Here's the meeting agenda (I'd like to use the wiki for agenda and meeting notes from now on): |
| 13:25 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes05may26 | |
| 13:25 | please add anything you'd like to have discussed | |
| 13:25 | I need a volunteer to take notes | |
| 13:25 | owen | I nominate logbot. |
| 13:25 | kados | hehe |
| 13:30 | T minus 30 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting | |
| 13:45 | T minus 15 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting | |
| 13:45 | owen | The anticipation is unbearable!!!1 |
| 13:55 | kados | T minus 05 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting |
| 13:55 | (grab snacks, coffee, etc ;-)) | |
| 13:55 | owen | (lock the library doors, unplug the phone) |
| 13:57 | (put on some mood music, light some candles... whoops wrong list) | |
| 13:58 | shaun | owen, what is that white powder you are holding? |
| 13:59 | russter | hi there |
| 14:00 | kados | OK ... welcome to the first Website/ Interface Design Focus Group Meeting |
| 14:00 | shaun | morning russ ;-) |
| 14:00 | kados | let's start with a roll call |
| 14:00 | shout out if you're here ;-) | |
| 14:01 | Here's the agenda: | |
| 14:01 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes05may26 | |
| 14:01 | russter | russ is here |
| 14:01 | kados | Anyone have anything to add to the agenda or any questions about it? |
| 14:03 | owen | should we wait for rach? |
| 14:03 | Ben | hi |
| 14:03 | shaun | yes, i think we should wait for rach |
| 14:03 | kados | yep ... let's give rach a couple of minutes |
| 14:03 | shaun | russ, do you know where she is? |
| 14:03 | russter | two secs |
| 14:04 | i'll give her a call | |
| 14:05 | Ben | has anyone seen shaun's website design? it proverbially rocks |
| 14:05 | not finished yet, but still great | |
| 14:05 | http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk/koha/index.html | |
| 14:05 | rach | thanks for hte call :-_ |
| 14:05 | kados | morning rach ;-) |
| 14:05 | owen | Ben, I thought it was a surprise! ;) |
| 14:06 | kados | ok ... so any questions about the agenda/things to add? |
| 14:06 | Ben | was it? |
| 14:06 | oh well. | |
| 14:06 | kados | welcome LTjake |
| 14:06 | we're just getting started | |
| 14:06 | LTjake | howdy. |
| 14:07 | kados | Item one: Koha Website |
| 14:08 | shaun | well done, ben, you ruined the surprise thing... |
| 14:08 | Ben | no-one told me it was going to be a surprise. |
| 14:08 | kados | so first off, what is koha.org and how can we ensure that it's professional enough for libraries while still a good resoure for developers? |
| 14:08 | shaun | ben: never mind, it's not finished... I'd just as well share my work |
| 14:09 | Ben | uchh. |
| 14:09 | kados | IMO Rus's email hit the nail on the head |
| 14:09 | owen | Yeah, recap |
| 14:10 | russter | allright |
| 14:10 | shaun | I think koha.org should be the advertising site - developers.koha.org and blogs.koha.org are kept separate, but closely linked to the main site. |
| 14:11 | Ben | brb |
| 14:11 | russter | i think it is important that we keep the brocuherware side of things |
| 14:11 | shaun | i read that originally as Ben_drunk... misinterpretation of central letters :/ |
| 14:12 | russter | and that this side of the site appeals to those in libraries making decisions about library systems |
| 14:12 | owen | I think it would be good to put case studies right up front--highlight the examples of Koha in production |
| 14:12 | russter | sure - i think that is what they are looking for |
| 14:12 | shaun | yes, that's a good idea - but something more than Horowhuena (can't spell) and NPL |
| 14:13 | Ben | good idea. |
| 14:13 | russter | yep, so building a frame work that can adapt so that we can add more case studies in is a good idea |
| 14:13 | owen | We'll put your library there too, shaun, as soon as it's ready ;) |
| 14:13 | Ben | but we do need more than those two, yes |
| 14:14 | russter | yep but i think this is all going to get down to content |
| 14:14 | rach | hmm - case studes are quite "supplier |
| 14:14 | there is a small tension between the koha.org site and the sites of companies who offer services around koha | |
| 14:14 | kados | right, like liblime.com |
| 14:14 | Ben | owen, don't hold your breath... our fascist IT teacher has a medical allergy to open-source, and the librarian is hopelessly dependant on Softlink produce.. it'll take a lot to get them using it |
| 14:14 | rach | katipo/liblime being the obvious ones |
| 14:15 | owen | True...and LibLime (for example) will want to hang on to their own success stories |
| 14:15 | rach | case studes are "how we -katipo/liblime- can help you make your library rock |
| 14:15 | so we need to manage that realationship | |
| 14:15 | Ben | em.. case studies are past examples of how others have used koha to make their libraries rock |
| 14:15 | rach | and imo, keep koha.org as vendor neutral as possible |
| 14:15 | shaun | ben: we are stepping over that - it's the website that attracts. |
| 14:16 | rach | so that we can encourage more vendors to the project as well |
| 14:16 | kados | I agree |
| 14:16 | owen | So how do you express the idea that Koha is being used out in the real world? |
| 14:16 | Ben | good idea. |
| 14:16 | kados | it's going to be challanging to do that |
| 14:17 | rach | yes - so using case studies as an example.... |
| 14:17 | linking back out to katipo or liblime could work | |
| 14:17 | if they have them | |
| 14:17 | Ben | can we have fictional case studies? |
| 14:18 | shaun | hell, no. |
| 14:18 | owen | No |
| 14:18 | Ben | I mean, like microsoft do.. |
| 14:18 | shaun | we are NOT MICROSOFT |
| 14:18 | russter | it would be nice to get those who have set up koha in house |
| 14:18 | to contribute case studies | |
| 14:18 | rach | yep - people who have diy'd |
| 14:18 | kados | yep like NPL |
| 14:18 | russter | yep |
| 14:18 | Ben | I second that. |
| 14:18 | shaun | and also say how easy it is to give back to the community |
| 14:19 | kados | hehe |
| 14:20 | rach | put them with your moon shares |
| 14:20 | Ben | I meant, M$ has things like 'find out how business A could bugger up their enterprise with M$ Enterprice' |
| 14:20 | kados | so we need to highlight options: libraries can DYI or hire someone to support them |
| 14:20 | Ben | not pretending to be true, hypothetical |
| 14:20 | owen | Has everyone taken a look at the proposed site map? |
| 14:20 | Ben | url? |
| 14:20 | owen | http://www.koha.org/koha-sitemap-draft-may05.gif |
| 14:21 | Meeting agenda URL, if you haven't seen it: http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes05may26 | |
| 14:21 | shaun | in my report to DHSB, I have focused on how we/I believe, "why should somebody pay for software that everybody can benefit from and influence?" |
| 14:21 | Ben | much better than the other one. |
| 14:22 | (DHSB being devonport high school, boys) | |
| 14:22 | kados | I'd like to see the Showcase section include links to katipo/liblme demos rather than an 'official' koha demo |
| 14:22 | because probably, features are available in those demos a version ahead of the official Koha stable release | |
| 14:23 | shaun | hmm, I was discussing with ben before how it would be useful to have a opensourcecms.com style refreshing each hour - getting all the content back |
| 14:23 | russter | that could be useful for showing different setups |
| 14:23 | Ben | were you? |
| 14:23 | oh, yes. | |
| 14:23 | shaun | yes. |
| 14:23 | kados | yep ... and it makes sense from a busines perspective |
| 14:24 | Ben | gah.. 3 hours to go for my photoshop download |
| 14:24 | rach | yep - do we need to show what they would actually get if they download it themselves today? |
| 14:24 | kados | I don't have as much incentive to keep up the 'official' koha demos as I do my liblime demos |
| 14:24 | shaun | ben: AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
| 14:24 | kados | that also encourages some competition among designs ;-) |
| 14:25 | russter | i think we could do both |
| 14:25 | rach | yep |
| 14:25 | kados | right ... it's just that in the past, the default koha demos aren't as impressive as customized demos |
| 14:25 | shaun | the demos of liblime and katipo could demonstrate how the company provides the product, while the official ones show the product itself. |
| 14:26 | russter | true, but we want to be straight up and show people what they will getif they download it them selves |
| 14:26 | Ben | yes, but that is because <rude>the preinstalled style is repulsive, which is why everyone customises it</rude> |
| 14:26 | russter | if we dont do a std online demo |
| 14:26 | the perhaps we put up screen shots | |
| 14:26 | shaun | ben: but we have the solution to that, don't we? |
| 14:27 | russter | but it will go to credibility |
| 14:27 | owen | Hold that thought for later in the meeting, shaun |
| 14:27 | Ben | shaun, <emperor>indeed</emperor>. |
| 14:27 | rach | the other alternative is that you think you're downloading something that looks purdy, and you get the green machine :-) |
| 14:27 | shaun | hehe |
| 14:27 | kados | :-) |
| 14:27 | Ben | ;p; |
| 14:27 | doh | |
| 14:27 | lol | |
| 14:27 | shaun | owen and ben, want to share some of that stuff? |
| 14:28 | Ben | which stuff? |
| 14:28 | shaun | ben: the stuff you are smoking. |
| 14:28 | kados | ok ... moving along |
| 14:29 | anything else on the proposed site map? | |
| 14:29 | Ben | shut up, shaun |
| 14:29 | russter | i tried to keep the number of sections down |
| 14:29 | do that the main nav is simple | |
| 14:30 | kados | yep ... I really like the layout |
| 14:30 | rach | I was wondering wether features should go accross to showcase |
| 14:30 | Ben | kados, it's great. however, we need to have a good structure for nav.. obviously there can be no 3-level-deep tabs |
| 14:30 | kados | er ... map ;-) |
| 14:30 | shaun | ben: there is more to life than tabs. |
| 14:30 | Ben | that's my point. |
| 14:30 | rach | and wether supporting and contributing to the community? |
| 14:30 | kados | there are plenty of ways to handle three levels |
| 14:31 | russter | i had a look round at some other os sites |
| 14:31 | kados | we handle the layout _after_ the site map |
| 14:31 | russter: more than the ones you mentioned in your email? | |
| 14:31 | russter | and the seems to be a bit of a theme |
| 14:32 | yep - the other sites werent as pretty :-) | |
| 14:32 | kados | :-) |
| 14:32 | OK ... anything else on the site map? | |
| 14:32 | Genji | morning all. |
| 14:32 | kados | hey Genji ... welcome |
| 14:33 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes05may26 | |
| 14:33 | agenda ... we're on item 1 still | |
| 14:33 | russter | rach : i think we may need to do some wireframes |
| 14:33 | kados | any resources we should link to from the koha.org site? |
| 14:33 | owen | How much of that map already exists? |
| 14:33 | kados | I'm thinking maybe presentations folks have done on KOha |
| 14:33 | in fact, it might be nice to have a link to 'events' where folks will be showcasing Koha | |
| 14:33 | Genji | ack, can't believe i forgot about the meeting. |
| 14:34 | russter | so that we can do some paper prototyping to see where people expect the features to be etc |
| 14:34 | rach | yep that's a good idea russ, and yep nice one on the events :-) |
| 14:34 | kados | maybe general open source case studies? |
| 14:35 | something like: | |
| 14:35 | http://liblime.com/c/opensource.html | |
| 14:35 | russter | owen that is a good idea |
| 14:35 | i should have marked which pages are exisitng and what would be new content | |
| 14:36 | kados | resources, resources ... any more? |
| 14:36 | Blogs? slef's been working up a blog agrogator | |
| 14:36 | rach | that is a great idea |
| 14:36 | kados | I don't have the link handy ... owen do you? |
| 14:37 | owen | http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/koha/ |
| 14:37 | kados | right ... still in its early stages but a good start |
| 14:38 | OK ... anything else on item 1? | |
| 14:38 | going once ... | |
| 14:38 | shaun | yes, lots |
| 14:38 | owen | Yeah, hold up. |
| 14:38 | shaun | sorry, i was being distracted |
| 14:38 | owen | How to proceed? |
| 14:38 | What's next? | |
| 14:39 | shaun | http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk/koha/index.html - hasn't been talked about yet |
| 14:39 | kados | looks good so far shaun |
| 14:39 | shaun | ben, it's crippled |
| 14:39 | Ben | whoop de doo. |
| 14:39 | russter | i'll have a chat with rach abuot the site map |
| 14:39 | shaun | i'm more awaiting rach' and russ's comment |
| 14:39 | Ben | still great. |
| 14:40 | russter | and i'll update it |
| 14:40 | kados | russter: ok ... sounds good |
| 14:40 | we'll need to begin writing text as well | |
| 14:40 | russter | cool |
| 14:40 | rach | oh sorry shaun, |
| 14:40 | kados | should we do text writing on the wiki? |
| 14:40 | russter | i can do a content delivery schedule as well so we can divvy up that job |
| 14:41 | rach | it looks good :-) but I think you need to see the rest of the stuff to go on the page :-) |
| 14:41 | shaun | yeh... the rest of the stuff would be a great addition... |
| 14:41 | russter | that leads right into our next phase of doing a design |
| 14:42 | i can do up some wireframes for the homepage | |
| 14:42 | rach | so if russ does the wireframe (plain drawing) it will be much use to you |
| 14:42 | kados | gool |
| 14:42 | cool even ;-) | |
| 14:42 | shaun | I would like to take that upon myself - I have the wireframes, but I haven't scanned them/drawn them up |
| 14:42 | russter | cool how about we both do it |
| 14:43 | we can probably bounce ideas off each other shaun | |
| 14:43 | kados | so ... wireframe, shaun will continue to code away, we'll get a content delivery schedule to divvy up the job: Shaun and Russ will work together on that |
| 14:43 | shaun | ok - I'll scan and send mine first, see what you think about it - I have blueprints for the hp and content pages |
| 14:43 | rach | sounds like a good plan shaun |
| 14:43 | russter | sweet |
| 14:43 | kados | are we ready to move on? |
| 14:43 | russter | i think so |
| 14:43 | shaun | blogs. |
| 14:43 | kados | Item 2: Koha Interfaces |
| 14:44 | shaun | sorry, kados |
| 14:44 | kados | shaun: already covered that I think |
| 14:44 | we're doing the agrogated blog thingy | |
| 14:44 | that slef is working on | |
| 14:44 | do you have something else to add? | |
| 14:44 | shaun | I still wanted to kill off the other point - I would like to contribute, but I have no intention of setting up my own blog - see earlier discussion |
| 14:45 | rach | can you contribute to someone elses blog? does it work like that? |
| 14:45 | shaun | I meant to a communal koha blog |
| 14:45 | kados | ok ... so you're voting for an official Koha blog that folks can use to write sutff down |
| 14:45 | really, I think we can have it both ways | |
| 14:45 | shaun | a vote! excellent idea ;-) |
| 14:46 | kados | we can just install blosxom on the Koha server and setup a way for folks to write things on it |
| 14:46 | owen | I vote we go the aggregator route right now, and add other functionality later |
| 14:46 | kados | I'll second that |
| 14:46 | indradg | ditto |
| 14:46 | russter | yep - if we try to take on too much, we wont get anything done |
| 14:46 | shaun | 1) we use blogs.koha.org, and each developer can post. editorial control is in the hands of katipo, or... |
| 14:47 | russter | it is a website, we can add stuff in later on |
| 14:47 | shaun | 2) developers who want blogs maintain their own and rss is aggregated |
| 14:48 | kados | it might even be possible to use your sourceforge account to maintain a blog shaun |
| 14:48 | ok we're moving on | |
| 14:48 | shaun | shall we vote? I think we should finish off discussing this particular topic today |
| 14:49 | owen | I thought we did vote ;) |
| 14:49 | kados | yea it's settled ... we're doing both but starting with the agrogated blog thingy |
| 14:49 | 2. Koha Interfaces | |
| 14:49 | shaun | great |
| 14:50 | Ben | *silence* |
| 14:50 | kados | So we've got a flawed template design process now |
| 14:50 | where programmers are designing the templates | |
| 14:50 | and the look pretty bad ;-) | |
| 14:50 | Ben | they look abysmal. |
| 14:50 | kados | in addition to the looks we need to account for: |
| 14:50 | (in no particular order) colors, logos, layout,standards compliance, usability, beauty, accessability(screen readers, PDAs, etc.), translations. | |
| 14:51 | Ben | show 'em your templates, shaun |
| 14:51 | shaun | i'm not going to use those templates today - I want to have the whole team discussing the whole project's template stuff |
| 14:52 | kados | I think we need two sets of templates: programmer templates, which are stripped-down versions, and an official set of tempaltes that accounts for everything I mentioned above |
| 14:52 | Ben | ok |
| 14:52 | rach | One of the things that we (katipo) assumed, was that each library would/should adjust the templates to meet their own design/look needs |
| 14:52 | kados | I also wonder if our templating system is too difficult to maintain |
| 14:52 | shaun | kados: i agree with that |
| 14:52 | kados | hi Irma ... welcome |
| 14:52 | Ben | rach, true |
| 14:53 | kados | our agenda is here: |
| 14:53 | http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koh[…]ndAndNotes05may26 | |
| 14:53 | Irma | hi there all |
| 14:53 | Ben | kados, I don't think it is |
| 14:53 | kados | we're on item 2: Koha Interfaces |
| 14:53 | rach | and that for koha to "work" for different languages, those libraries may need to actually change where things are in relation to each other |
| 14:53 | owen | templating system is a pain, but I don't see an easy alternative. |
| 14:54 | kados | that makes sense |
| 14:54 | rach | which is why we've gone for the sort of templating system we have |
| 14:54 | shaun | HTML::Template is fine, imo - tricky, but fine |
| 14:54 | rach | what has got away on us is that the actual base design is a lot more complicated (and thus ugly) than we intended |
| 14:54 | yep - we do use kea with html::template for our koha installs | |
| 14:55 | Ben | rach, well, shaun (and I) are redesigning the templates, more or less from scratch |
| 14:55 | kados | interesting |
| 14:55 | Genji | Using Kea as the actual editing software? sounds interesting. |
| 14:55 | rach | so when we're editing html::template files it's in kea |
| 14:55 | Ben | and I think we've made a load of progress |
| 14:55 | kados | nice ... well that'd be a great front-end for Koha's templating system |
| 14:55 | rach | sounds good ben |
| 14:56 | kados | one issue that we need to focus on is 'usability' |
| 14:56 | Genji | Eh, but currently, Kea is not opensource? |
| 14:56 | Ben | kados, we're doing usability.. |
| 14:56 | rach | no - due mostly to lack of application on our part |
| 14:56 | we haven't got it ready for being OS'd | |
| 14:57 | Ben | to give an impression of the attention to detail we've made, we argued for twenty minutes over the psychological effects of increasing a border by 1px |
| 14:57 | kados | what I mean my 'usability' is that our templates be designed for ease of use by librarians |
| 14:57 | Genji | what processes does code need to go through, to make code ready for OS? |
| 14:57 | Ben | eventually, we left it like it was, but darkened the colour |
| 14:57 | shaun | ben: i was there for clare, not you. :D |
| 14:58 | kados | I believe that NPL's templates (with some color changes) represent the most usable templates created thusfar |
| 14:58 | Ben | despite shaun's love-life, we are still paying lots of attention to usability |
| 14:58 | kados | right ... but keep in mind that Owen is actually a librarian |
| 14:58 | as well as an interface designer | |
| 14:59 | Ben | so were shaun and I |
| 14:59 | kados | and we've got about 50 librarians complaining constantnly about Koha's interface ;-) |
| 14:59 | Ben | shaun, shoiw us the damn templates!! |
| 14:59 | shaun | ben: keep the love-life, piracy, pixels and random lengthy arguments out of #koha. |
| 14:59 | kados | and that's how the templates got to where they are |
| 14:59 | rach | so different design, but similar layout |
| 14:59 | kados | I'm not just talking about the OPAC |
| 14:59 | but circulation/cataloging too | |
| 15:00 | Ben | we've not done anything to the OPAC yet. |
| 15:00 | kados | (cataloging needs major work still) |
| 15:00 | rach | the cataloguing is broken for the stuff we're doing |
| 15:00 | Ben | we did all the work so far on circulation |
| 15:00 | kados | http://koha.liblime.com/ |
| 15:00 | that's NPL templates for the circulation stuff | |
| 15:00 | user: circ pass: liblime | |
| 15:01 | Ben | usable, and extremely ugly. |
| 15:01 | kados | I didn't say they were perfect |
| 15:01 | Ben | I know |
| 15:01 | shaun | I can see the NPL in that ;-) |
| 15:01 | kados | I don't think they are ugly BTW ;-) |
| 15:02 | Ben | hmm. |
| 15:02 | kados | that's a value judgement I guess |
| 15:02 | Ben | shaun, show them the damned templates. |
| 15:02 | kados | Ben: put a lid on it |
| 15:02 | Ben: :-) | |
| 15:02 | owen | Besides, kados isn't proposing that we use /those/ templates |
| 15:02 | But he is proposing that we use those as a basis for the official version | |
| 15:02 | kados | right |
| 15:03 | shaun | so what are your experiences with NPL? do the librarians object to the colour scheme? |
| 15:03 | owen | Here are the advantages of using NPL's templates as the basis of a new version: |
| 15:03 | 1. They're tested in a real-world setting | |
| 15:03 | They've been in use for quite a while, and have been developed based on input from working librarians. | |
| 15:03 | Ben | hmph. - http://kohacvs.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/ un: kohaadmin, pw: hexthouse |
| 15:03 | rach | if you are proposing that - I think I want to talk with someone (owen?) about what's on each "page" and why - because I think there are some architecture improvements that can be made - again before we decide on what colour the tabs should be |
| 15:03 | owen | 2. They're maintained by a full-time librarian (me), who's actively involved with the development process. |
| 15:03 | shaun | (i'll be back in 20 mins, cover for me ben, and remember, keep to koha) |
| 15:04 | Ben | k |
| 15:04 | what does everyone think of those templates? | |
| 15:04 | kados | Ben: that user/password isn't working for me |
| 15:04 | rach | because I'm sure you've made some decisions after lots of internal wrangling - but others maybe not :-) |
| 15:04 | kados | rach: exactly |
| 15:05 | rach | ben - I'm not really interested in what they look like as in - are they beautiful - but I'm interested in how they work, what you can do on each page |
| 15:05 | shaun | DDoS, DDoS... this is residential broadband you know. |
| 15:05 | rach | I think we can make anything more beautiful, or more simple looking |
| 15:05 | Ben | get a better connection then |
| 15:05 | rach | often the same thing |
| 15:05 | shaun_20 | shut up ben, i can't get fibre yet. |
| 15:05 | Ben | lol |
| 15:06 | kados | I agree rach |
| 15:06 | owen | username for the link Ben posted is 'kohacvs' |
| 15:06 | rach | so owen/joshua is that ok? |
| 15:06 | Ben | is it? |
| 15:06 | d'oh | |
| 15:06 | kados | rach: is what ok? |
| 15:06 | owen | Okay to discuss that design, rach? |
| 15:07 | Ben | rach, well, we didn't modify anything besides the look & feel yet.. and I am sure that anyone would rather use ours than the defaults |
| 15:07 | rach | well more to interogate you about the decisions you made :-) |
| 15:07 | owen | Of course. |
| 15:07 | Ben | yeah, go on. |
| 15:07 | owen | Please do. |
| 15:07 | Ben | oops |
| 15:07 | rach | and which things the libraians love, and which they don't |
| 15:08 | owen | rach: one of the problems is that we don't use everything, so not everything has been real-world tested. |
| 15:08 | rach | we have some much simpler tempaltes than the npl ones that we used for 1.x and 2.0 series libraries |
| 15:08 | owen | Full acquisitions, for instance. |
| 15:08 | rach | because they are for libraries not using marc - so your ones seem complicated in comparison |
| 15:08 | kados | makes sense |
| 15:08 | owen | rach: are you developing a new set of templates right now? |
| 15:09 | kados | and again with the full acquisitions eh? |
| 15:09 | rach | yes |
| 15:09 | osmoze | hello all |
| 15:09 | rach | which is why it's important to us :-) |
| 15:09 | kados | welcome osmoze |
| 15:09 | owen | Of course. |
| 15:09 | Ben | so what does everyone think of the design of our templates? |
| 15:09 | kados | Ben: noone can log in |
| 15:09 | Ben | un: kohacvs, pw: hexthouse |
| 15:10 | kados | Ben: they are the 2.2 default templates ;-) |
| 15:10 | Ben | click circulation. |
| 15:10 | kados | ok I see now |
| 15:10 | Ben | muffin ;P |
| 15:11 | kados | so usability: |
| 15:11 | what does it take for me to do a catalog search? | |
| 15:11 | Ben | the top-left logo is due for replacing, but otherwise I really like then |
| 15:11 | kados | I have to click on catalogue |
| 15:11 | load a new page | |
| 15:11 | then fill in stuff | |
| 15:11 | then scroll down | |
| 15:11 | then click on 'search' | |
| 15:12 | Ben | click catalogue or hit alt+f2, then fill out this form, then hit enter. |
| 15:12 | kados | right ... well from a usability perspective I don't want to click at all |
| 15:12 | I want to have the catalog search option always resident on the page | |
| 15:12 | Ben | very well. |
| 15:12 | kados | with NPL I can hit Alt-Q |
| 15:12 | type in my phrase | |
| 15:12 | hit enter | |
| 15:13 | Ben: make sense? | |
| 15:13 | Ben | how about, then, we redesign the templates you're using, to this new look & feel? admittedly, these ones aren't that much focused on usability |
| 15:14 | rach | josh/owen, are there any features in the default templates, which aren't in npl? |
| 15:14 | owen | There shouldn't be, unless I missed something. |
| 15:14 | rach | ie, are the npl ones complete |
| 15:14 | Ben | and admittedly, we haven't found time to do serious stuff to anything at all other than circulation |
| 15:15 | owen | I try to include everything, even stuff we don't use. Then I hide that stuff in our installation |
| 15:15 | rach | yep cool |
| 15:15 | Ben | that's a good idea. |
| 15:16 | rach | hokay, so I suspect the most useful thing to do is to get the developer templates underway - so the "plain" ones |
| 15:16 | kados | LibLime's version of NPL's are mainly complete |
| 15:16 | yep ... sounds good | |
| 15:16 | rach | as then the developers can use them and stop the maddness :-) |
| 15:16 | kados | :-) |
| 15:16 | indradg | amen! |
| 15:16 | owen | Okay...let's define what 'plain' means |
| 15:16 | rach | ben and shaun, your design would be a nice "skin" |
| 15:16 | Ben | yes. |
| 15:17 | also, we have made pedantic changes to circulation which I think are nice | |
| 15:17 | kados | such as? |
| 15:17 | Ben | (we didn't do anything else yet, as we haven't had time) |
| 15:18 | kados | OK ... well if there's nothing else I guess we'll move on ... sorry this is taking so long |
| 15:18 | 3 is taken care of mostly as I suspected | |
| 15:18 | Ben | we removed the everpresent boxes, changed the wording of all the error messages to make them more comprehendable and coherent, made the entry box be focused on page load, etc etc etc etc |
| 15:19 | tiny things. | |
| 15:19 | kados | Ben: great! we can incorporate those changes into the default templates |
| 15:19 | Ben | yay. |
| 15:19 | kados | anything else on templates? |
| 15:20 | Item 4. is Roles | |
| 15:20 | Ben | also, we've utterly revamped the coding, to make it css2 compliant as well as xhtml strict; and the styling is more logical now, for that page. |
| 15:20 | carry on with 4, kados | |
| 15:21 | kados | Ben: NPL templates are valid |
| 15:21 | Ben | the default ones aren't, and I was not aware of the existance of NPL templates until about an hour ago. |
| 15:21 | kados | you're kidding! |
| 15:22 | Ben | nope. |
| 15:22 | kados | liblime's demos have been thrown up in your face constantly ;-) |
| 15:22 | Ben | have they? I didn't notice |
| 15:22 | kados | xhtml transitional with valid css |
| 15:22 | Ben | lovely. |
| 15:22 | kados | ok ... I'm moving on it item 4 |
| 15:22 | wake up everyone :-) | |
| 15:23 | indradg | its 2 AM and I'm sleeping :) |
| 15:23 | kados | Item 4 Roles |
| 15:23 | Ben | half past nine in the evening here |
| 15:23 | kados | can we elect an interface designer? Owen's volunteered |
| 15:23 | rach: opinion on this? | |
| 15:23 | owen | Talk about how you would define the role, kados. |
| 15:24 | kados | ok the interface designer would .. |
| 15:24 | rach | sorry searching |
| 15:24 | kados | Designing a set of templates for Koha 2.4 based on current functionality, usability, color coordination, also maybe make sure itâs standards compliance, accessability is good for use on PDAs, Screen Readers, etc. |
| 15:24 | Make sure that alternative templates also conform to these requirements (they must before they can be included in the release). | |
| 15:24 | 3. Write documentation on the process of templating to ease the learning curve for future templaters | |
| 15:24 | RH-W | |
| 15:24 | that's copied from my scratch pad | |
| 15:25 | rach suggested: Iâd like to see a design process gone through for the basic page designs if at all possible, and then the actual coding can get done. | |
| 15:25 | so the Interface Designer would compile everyone's ideas and code | |
| 15:25 | and design requests | |
| 15:26 | and flesh them out into a set of default templates | |
| 15:26 | rach | well - that's a bit job, and we do normally split designer and coder into 2 people |
| 15:26 | so you could do that | |
| 15:26 | kados | me? ;-) |
| 15:26 | rach | bit = big |
| 15:27 | doing the graphic design/architecture can be split from doing the html code | |
| 15:27 | they don't need to be the same person | |
| 15:27 | if that is too big a job | |
| 15:27 | kados | ok ... what do you think owen? |
| 15:28 | rach | in fact you could split architecture --> design --> code |
| 15:28 | kados | right ... architecture would be the programmer templates |
| 15:28 | right? | |
| 15:28 | rach | pretty much - that's the "what's on each page" bit |
| 15:28 | what | |
| 15:28 | kados | who can do the design? will we have to get 'quorum' from others to decide on the design? |
| 15:29 | rach | what's the focus, what's most important etc |
| 15:29 | kados | ahh ... I see |
| 15:29 | rach | the design is then what colour is it :-) |
| 15:29 | Ben | meeeee |
| 15:29 | lol | |
| 15:29 | rach | and the code is making it happen |
| 15:29 | kados | right |
| 15:30 | so rach can you do the 'design' part of this? | |
| 15:30 | rach | to get better design, you split that off from the code, so that you don't design stuff based on it being what you know how to code :-) |
| 15:30 | kados | I assume that there will be lots of dialog between the three levels |
| 15:30 | owen: any opinions? | |
| 15:30 | rach | yep - time for all the ideas about how it works is the architecture stage |
| 15:31 | Ben | kados, according to what I read earlier, shaun and I are reskinning the npl templates |
| 15:31 | owen | I'd be happy to work with rach that way |
| 15:31 | rach | but there is always stuff that comes up as you progress |
| 15:31 | Ben | so how does that affect us? |
| 15:31 | kados | Ben: great! we'll look forward to seeing your work |
| 15:31 | Irma | I can proofread for spelling and use of same wording where appropriate as well as use of same font and size for opac and intranet displays |
| 15:31 | rach | well the things you say you're thinking of changing about how circulations works - you should try and tell us |
| 15:31 | kados | Irma: right good point |
| 15:32 | Ben | oh, and we also have some ideas about wording.. owen may remember when I got so confused a while ago about the difference between reserved and reserved_waiting |
| 15:32 | rach | yes - so we try to sort all that out, before we do graphics, so that you only have to do graphics once, and only for something we're already sure works |
| 15:33 | Ben | ok |
| 15:33 | rach | which is less frustrating :-) |
| 15:33 | kados | So our programmers will handle the arcchiteture, rach will work with owen on design with some ideas from shaun and ben, and Owen will code the actual xhtml; Irma will proofread the results (and do quality assurance on it? is that ok?) |
| 15:34 | owen | Sounds good to me. |
| 15:34 | Ben | (I had reworded some of the errors) |
| 15:34 | kados | I assume rach and owen can work on graphics together |
| 15:34 | Irma | qa ok |
| 15:34 | kados | Ben can send us his reworded stuff |
| 15:34 | Ben | ok |
| 15:34 | kados | and we'll incorporate it if it's better |
| 15:34 | Ben | erm... where did I put it? lol |
| 15:34 | owen | I wonder if we'll be able to have some kind of staging server where the process can be observed? |
| 15:34 | Ben | I'll have to ask shaun for the template file later, the changes are in there |
| 15:35 | kados | I can volunteer space at LibLime |
| 15:35 | shaun_20 | I'm back... next time i should set time aside for IRC meetings |
| 15:35 | Ben | owen, shaun was running the development server publicly (ish) |
| 15:35 | kados | anything else to discuss? |
| 15:36 | shaun | hang on... a recapitulation... will the NPL templates be the default now? |
| 15:36 | owen | No, we're talking about a re-design. |
| 15:36 | Irma | what is the time frame for all this? |
| 15:36 | kados | Irma: good question |
| 15:36 | Ben | shaun, we are helping rach & owen to reskin them, and they will be used < that's what I think has been said |
| 15:36 | kados | we don't have an official timeframe for 2.4 ... loosley jan 1 2006 is the latest projection data I know of |
| 15:37 | because that's the date that SAN's deadline is on | |
| 15:37 | Ben | but my interpretation of other people's sayings is a little lax at times |
| 15:37 | shaun | by reskinning, do you mean purely visual touchup or some additional template tourchup? |
| 15:37 | sorry about this, I had to go and be talked at. | |
| 15:37 | rach | if you have things that you think need to be changed about how it works |
| 15:37 | Ben | shaun, you know GTK window borders in gnome? |
| 15:37 | shaun | yes |
| 15:37 | rach | then we need to say so before you get to the pretties |
| 15:38 | kados | great ... can we wrap things up then |
| 15:38 | rach | so like we've just done for the website |
| 15:38 | shaun | it's actually metacity that controls window borders in gnome, but carry on |
| 15:38 | kados | rach: right |
| 15:38 | Ben | approximately, we're making one for the npl templates |
| 15:38 | in css/xhtml/png obviously | |
| 15:38 | fonts, borders, button styles, backgrounds, etc | |
| 15:39 | shaun | and what is the status of other devices eg. handhelds? |
| 15:39 | kados | right ... rach and owen (and anyone else who'd care to join in) will be designing a mock up for 'pda' use I suppose |
| 15:39 | Ben | erm... although I don't see why anyone should want to access koha thru a pda or wapphone, I don't see it's a problem |
| 15:40 | kados | OK ... I'm declaring the meeting over |
| 15:40 | thanks everyone! | |
| 15:40 | shaun | ben: stocktake |
| 15:40 | Ben | ? |
| 15:40 | owen | Inventory. |
| 15:40 | Walking through the stacks looking for something on the shelf, and you wonder if it has been marked lost | |
| 15:40 | Ben | I know what it means, I just don't see what that particular noun has to do with templates |
| 15:41 | owen | Find an item on the shelf that was checked out to someone, and checking it in right there. |
| 15:41 | Ben | ohhhhhhh.... |
| 15:41 | I see. | |
| 15:41 | although if I can get mrs simmonds to use a pda, I should be awarded a qualification in hypnosis | |
| 15:43 | shaun | so is it russ and I working on the website still? |
| 15:44 | Ben | yes. |
| 15:44 | rach | yep |
| 15:44 | shaun | ben: we know that it's not a trial download now, hah-harrrrr |
| 15:44 | Ben | aww, mibble. |
| 15:53 | right, I'm gone - bed time. | |
| 15:56 | russ | back |
| 16:18 | slef | hello |
| 16:20 | rach | hi slef |
| 16:22 | slef | another day, another duff web "accessibility" consultant demasked |
| 16:22 | rach | nice |
| 16:23 | slef | only nice if it gets fixed sites I can use more easily and/or more work for me ;-) |
| 16:28 | Genji | is there any ability to catalogsearch() by loanstatus yet? |
| 16:31 | owen | Genji, you mean, 'show me only items which aren't checked out'? |
| 16:36 | kados | msg owen so can we talk a bit about the NPL website update? |
| 16:36 | oops | |
| 16:37 | rach | :-) |
| 16:38 | don;t suppose anyone knows how to set up the numbering calculation in serials? | |
| 16:39 | slef | hack the source :-/ |
| 16:39 | owen | It's pretty obscure, rach, isn't it? |
| 16:39 | I think there's a help file for it, actually. | |
| 16:43 | rach | but isn't entirely helped :-) |
| 16:43 | kados | hehe |
| 16:45 | owen | Rach, I've puzzled it out before...where are you getting stuck? |
| 16:45 | Everywhere? :) | |
| 16:46 | rach | oh and they are wrong I think - excellent :-) |
| 16:46 | * Y add 1 once every 1 times. When more than 4 set back to 4. Begins with 1 | |
| 16:46 | will result in the following issues numbers : | |
| 16:46 | I think that should be set back to 1 | |
| 16:47 | so my serial says May 2005 Issue 56 | |
| 16:48 | owen | The numbering formula will only work on the 'Issue 56' part. |
| 16:48 | rach | really |
| 16:58 | Genji | koha version 2.2.2b. opac catalogsearch() items.holdingbranch doesn't seem to work. anyone have any ideas why not? |
| 16:59 | slef | kados: quick, correct ID -> IN before indradg notices! |
| 16:59 | I misread logs as indonesia instead of india :-( | |
| 17:01 | kados | slef: ahh ... cool thanks |
| 17:02 | shaun | hehe... reminds me of the time somebody in my music class wrote a "vietnamese waltz" |
| 17:03 | slef | attack, retreat, lose on the home front? |
| 17:03 | kados | :-) |
| 17:04 | rach | joshua - irma is in australia :-) |
| 17:05 | chris | in seeedney |
| 17:09 | slef | post |
| 17:09 | rach | :-) |
| 17:09 | plain brown wrapper | |
| 17:10 | shaun | I'm off to bed, bye |
| 17:10 | rach | by shaun - oh I've had little luck sending fonts |
| 17:10 | shaun | what do you mean? |
| 17:10 | rach | windows doesn't give them up |
| 17:10 | shaun | ah |
| 17:11 | can you not copy them into a folder outside of the fonts folder and then zip that up? | |
| 17:11 | rach | I have tried that before, and not succeeded |
| 17:12 | shaun | ok, thanks for trying, I'm being kicked off now... bye |
| 17:20 | Genji | Okay, it seems that searching by items.holdingbranch does not work, im thinking because any transfer does not sync the marc database. Just the old-DB. |
| 18:18 | Irma | Rachel: regarding periodicals, there are quite a few different aspects to concider. The easy part is if the issue is received in the mail and is the hard copy. The accessioning takes place meaning the issue gets date stamped and ownership staped or labelled. The catalogue entry for the journal now says: all the other issue numbers + this issue number and sometimes libraries obt to say: nex... |
| 18:18 | ...issue due:...A lot of libraries purchase through an aggregator ejournals only or ejournals and also receive the print by mail. They purchase individual or institutional electronic access. EBSCOhost Electronic Journals Service for example gives librarie 2 options to download MARC titles. I don't know by experience but it's something I need to work out for a client soon | |
| 18:18 | rach | irma - ah no I was trying to use the actual serials bit in koha for arclib |
| 18:18 | to set up an example for them | |
| 18:18 | and I've got as far as setting up the periodical | |
| 18:19 | and it seems to know that it should be recieving them | |
| 18:19 | but it doesn't have a place for putting in barcodes etc, and I'm not sure they are actually getting "in" | |
| 18:19 | if you go to your arclib one and look at "her business" | |
| 18:20 | ah well - that is progress | |
| 18:20 | we get a server error now :-0 | |
| 18:20 | Irma | ok will do in a minute remember also Rachel Arclib usually indexes every article in every issue |
| 18:22 | few clients, as I can gather buy the ejournal. Pasting the scanned contents page would be better than entering each one. | |
| 18:22 | Rachel were you wanting to do this now? I actually have heaps of work to do for the State Library d/b review and it's due by tonight... | |
| 18:23 | arclib is scheduled for monday am onwards...You?? | |
| 18:23 | rach | no way - you go irma |
| 18:23 | I was just having a try while I was still in koha mode :-) | |
| 18:24 | and had a magazine on my desk | |
| 18:24 | Irma | merci! |
| 18:24 | rach | and I figured I would have questions for paul et al, about how it actually works, before you and I get into how it should work |
| 18:25 | Irma | i will just stay online to get IRC comfortable along the day |
| 18:26 | rach | very good |
| 18:37 | kados | Irma: sorry about getting your country wrong |
| 18:54 | Genji | breaking for lunch. |
| 18:58 | rach | irma is international really :-) |
| 19:02 | Genji | hey, thought occurs, what happens if a woman gives birth inside the UN building? |
| 19:02 | is the child an international citizen? | |
| 19:03 | rach | which UN building :-) |
| 19:04 | Genji | UM building in Washington... where the Security council meets, and the UN Congress. |
| 19:04 | it is washington right? | |
| 19:05 | chris | the un headquarters are in new york |
| 19:05 | but there are un buildings all over the place | |
| 19:05 | http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]y/Vienna/dsc00294 <-- including this one in vienna | |
| 19:05 | Genji | ya. those ones. the un headquarters in new york. |
| 19:06 | if a woman gives birth in the un headquarters.... international soil right? how is citizenship of child decided? | |
| 19:06 | chris | no idea |
| 19:08 | kados | chris: morning ;-) ... quick question: is there a really brainless and simple way in perl to check if a URL is valid and didn't 404 ... what would be the fastest way to do this? |
| 19:08 | chris | lwp::simple im guessing |
| 19:09 | or maybe HTTP::Status | |
| 19:09 | kados | ok ... /me just realized after coding for half-an-hour that I didn't need HTTP::Request + LWP::UserAgent to do this ;-) |
| 19:09 | I'm going to add the 'google-style' definitions to Koha | |
| 19:09 | using answers.com | |
| 19:10 | oooh ... HTTP::Status probably ... thanks | |
| 19:11 | chris | ah no LWP::Simple is probably the easiest |
| 19:12 | get($url) | |
| 19:12 | The get() function will fetch the document identified by the given URL and return it. It returns | |
| 19:12 | "undef" if it fails. The $url argument can be either a simple string or a reference to a URI object. | |
| 19:12 | kados | but I don't want to return the url ... just to test it |
| 19:12 | is that even possible? | |
| 19:12 | chris | well all u need are the headers |
| 19:14 | hmm u might end up with UserAgent after all | |
| 19:16 | kados | right ... to just get the headers ... cool thanks |
| 19:46 | sweet: | |
| 19:47 | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]%20home%20journal | |
| 19:53 | it will list the urls for definitions only if the terms searched for actually have definitions | |
| 20:02 | Genji | okay, im back. |
| 21:08 | kados | it's kinda problematic |
| 21:09 | because answers.com doesn't actually spit out useful response codes | |
| 21:09 | everything comes back as a 200 | |
| 21:09 | and I can't find anything unique in the headers for items that have definitions vs those that don't | |
| 21:09 | so I've got to search through <head> | |
| 21:10 | if there's a definition the <head> has Definition in it | |
| 21:10 | otherwise it doesn't | |
| 21:10 | I added a timout of 10 as well so it won't hang if the response is slow due to network outage, etc. | |
| 21:11 | hey owen | |
| 21:11 | check out the fancy definitions on liblime's opac | |
| 21:11 | owen | I was just reading the logs (because I'm a big big nerd), and noticed Genji found out the problem with a search on holdingbranch |
| 21:12 | The same one we discovered recently.. :) | |
| 21:12 | kados | :-) |
| 21:12 | that wasn't too recent eh? | |
| 21:12 | owen | Genji: You're absolutely right: a search by holdingbranch is inaccurate because holdingbranch isn't updated in the MARC database. |
| 21:14 | Genji | thought so. |
| 21:14 | owen | So kados you're checking to see if the definition address exists before displaying the link? |
| 21:14 | kados | owen: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]%20Home%20Journal |
| 21:14 | yea | |
| 21:14 | owen | Neat. |
| 21:14 | Genji | so, rach's feature request cannot be done 100% |
| 21:15 | owen | Ooh, and it handles multiple keywords! Very nice. |
| 21:15 | kados | yep ;-) |
| 21:15 | owen | Now all you've got to do is show the forecast when someone searches for books on weather! |
| 21:15 | Genji, we updated the search parameters to look for currentbranch, as I recall. | |
| 21:15 | kados | yea ... that wouldln't be too hard to do .. in fact, since I'm already grabbing data from answers.com I can parse it and display in on the page in any way I want |
| 21:16 | i.e., scrape the whole page | |
| 21:16 | owen | No, maybe I'm wrong. |
| 21:16 | items.homebranch is what it says. | |
| 21:17 | Genji | hmm owen? ya. i don't want the homebranch |
| 21:17 | owen | No good solution at the moment I think. |
| 21:17 | Genji | i thought so, ya. |
| 21:17 | owen | Anyway, that's all I got :) |
| 21:20 | Genji | my test (home) server is http://222.152.133.79/ ... implementing rach's feature request: add sidebar "search options"... info found at http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/ko[…]-4/search_ideas_1 |
| 21:20 | feel free to take a look. | |
| 21:20 | kados | cool |
| 21:21 | very cool Genji! | |
| 21:23 | Genji | well.. its getting there. |
| 21:23 | example search, type theosophy in the front pages quicksearch. okay. then type reincarnation in the keyword/subject box, remember to click search within, and then click quick search. | |
| 21:24 | after that, type powell into the keyword/subject box, search within, then click quicksearch. | |
| 21:25 | The Filter by functionality, and the non-fiction, fiction etc searchby is being implemented. | |
| 21:31 | kados | hehe ... neat |
| 21:31 | Genji | you tried ti? |
| 21:37 | kados | yea ... works great |
| 21:37 | you should make that bullet automatic | |
| 21:39 | rach | the radio auto on search within? that's cool well done |
| 21:39 | kados | yea |
| 21:41 | Genji | huh? radio auto on search within?... you mean that the radio option "search within" should be turned on by default? |
| 21:44 | makes logical sense. | |
| 21:50 | rach | ya |
| 21:52 | Genji | done, it works perfectly. |
| 21:52 | hmm.. halfway to finishing the categorytable edit page, based on itemtypes. | |
| 21:53 | Irma | lunch break and reading about Innovative's new partnership http://www.biblio-tech.com/uks[…]7&PID=10&ZID=1887> Koha beiing "googable"? any comments? |
| 21:54 | kados | Irma: search google for: Nelsonville Public Library James Bond |
| 21:55 | it should pull up results directly from NPL's catalog | |
| 21:55 | Irma | trying it now Joshua |
| 21:55 | kados | koha is 'googable' ;-) |
| 21:56 | rach | always has been - because we don't have session problems |
| 21:56 | everything is a proper/static url from googles pov | |
| 21:59 | kados | ok ... this definition thing just got a bit better |
| 21:59 | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]%20Home%20Journal | |
| 21:59 | now mouse over the definitions | |
| 21:59 | (don't click) | |
| 22:00 | (I still need to set styles for the 'title' entities ... but it's a decent proof of concent) | |
| 22:02 | (better functionally than google ;-)) | |
| 22:06 | Irma | thanks for the clarifications. 2 attemps got a "internal server error...contact oleonard"...but I believe you and must rush back to my work. Thanks. |
| 22:08 | kados | strange ... I'm not getting internal server error now |
| 22:11 | Irma | http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]eyword=james+bond |
| 22:12 | kados | right ... that is a problem |
| 22:12 | I wonder why | |
| 22:14 | Irma: firstoff, NPL isn't using opac-searchresults.pl | |
| 22:14 | that's why it's throwing an error | |
| 22:14 | opac-searchresults.pl is archaic from the dark ages of 1.2 I think | |
| 22:14 | it shouldn't even be in that directory | |
| 22:14 | ;-) | |
| 22:15 | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]tains&value=james%bond | |
| 22:15 | try that link | |
| 22:15 | oops | |
| 22:15 | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]alue=james%20bond | |
| 22:15 | that's better | |
| 22:16 | (of course, liblime doesn't have any james bond books) | |
| 22:16 | but you can see the definitions working | |
| 22:18 | Irma | very snazzy! |
| 22:19 | bye for now and keep up the good work :-) | |
| 22:19 | kados | Irma: take care |
| 22:21 | indradg | hi kados |
| 22:22 | kados, got a question... abt the goodies u r putting together e.g. definitions, searches on Google scholar etc | |
| 22:23 | will this features be controllable from the System Param page so that the user be able to turn on / off these on-demand? | |
| 22:23 | s/this/these/ | |
| 22:33 | kados | indradg: in 2.4 yes |
| 22:33 | at the moment, no | |
| 22:33 | :-) | |
| 22:33 | I'm not sure how to handle 'turning them off' in the template though | |
| 22:34 | I suspect they will always need to be customized with templates | |
| 22:42 | indradg | hmmm |
| 22:43 | how abt something like drupal does... calls it "Block Management" u toggle things with "Static on page <x>" yes | no options | |
| 22:56 | rosa, hi | |
| 23:02 | kados | indradg, rach, etc ... try it now! |
| 23:02 | Genji | wooot! |
| 23:02 | kados | Genji: like it? |
| 23:02 | Genji | got a categorycode table implemented. |
| 23:03 | kados | Genji: or you got something working? |
| 23:03 | sweet! | |
| 23:03 | rach | what are ew trying? |
| 23:03 | Genji | with its editor in parameters. |
| 23:03 | kados | rach: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]%20home%20journal |
| 23:04 | and mouse over the definitions: ladies, home, and journal | |
| 23:04 | eat your heart out google! | |
| 23:04 | rach | cute :-) |
| 23:05 | slef will have you tho for mystery nav - he didn't like my "you've borrowed this before" idea because of it :-)) | |
| 23:05 | kados | mystery nav? |
| 23:06 | what does he mean by that? | |
| 23:06 | Genji | rach. i took your idea of Catagories... like Fiction, nonfiction, Non=Fiction and Fiction.... implemented it by categorytable... categorytable->Non-fiction->ANF|JNF etc. and made a parameters interface to it. |
| 23:06 | kados | yea ... Genji's stuff looks real nice |
| 23:06 | rach | cool |
| 23:07 | um mystery meat navigation, usually where you've no idea what the navigation is | |
| 23:07 | Genji | okay... how do i use dyndns names to serve both intranet and opac to the net? |
| 23:08 | change ServerName directive in apache, right? | |
| 23:08 | rach | so the star by the book title qualifies |
| 23:08 | ah but yours doesn't really | |
| 23:08 | so that's ok | |
| 23:11 | your light green is a bit odd odd on my monitor by the way - it's a particular shade that I've only really seen on VW Golf cars | |
| 23:11 | and doesn't entirely go with our purple | |
| 23:11 | but I am on a lcd, so it could be me | |
| 23:11 | kados | :-) |
| 23:11 | rach | our = you |
| 23:12 | god | |
| 23:12 | your | |
| 23:12 | kados | ok |
| 23:13 | Genji: you can setup multiple names on dyndns for your IP address | |
| 23:13 | then you'll want a line: | |
| 23:13 | NameVirtualHost 99.99.99.99 | |
| 23:14 | where the 9s are your IP | |
| 23:14 | that goes in httpd.conf | |
| 23:14 | then you can set up ServerName directives for each DocumentRoot you want to use | |
| 23:15 | rach: the 'star by the book?' | |
| 23:15 | the light green is an odd shade on some monitors ... something I've got to fix | |
| 23:16 | rach | um |
| 23:16 | http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/ko[…]h_ideas_details_4 | |
| 23:16 | kados | rach: so from a design perspective, where would you put the definitions functionality as I've just done it |
| 23:17 | oooh nice | |
| 23:17 | rosa | rach, one of my borrowers whom I let look at your koha2-4 screen loved the "you've borrowed it before" above all else |
| 23:17 | rach | :-) |
| 23:17 | kados | yea ... that's a great idea |
| 23:17 | Genji | okay, dyndns done... but ServerName genjimoto.is-a-geek.org isn't going to intranet, it still goes to opac. |
| 23:18 | kados | and when you rollover the star it could pop the message up |
| 23:18 | rach | yep |
| 23:18 | kados | using my new friend ;-) |
| 23:18 | rach | so once you'd done that once, you'd remember |
| 23:18 | and not have to do it | |
| 23:18 | kados | right |
| 23:18 | rach | unless you forgot :-) |
| 23:18 | kados | :-) |
| 23:18 | and it tells you when you borrowed it | |
| 23:18 | really nice rach | |
| 23:18 | rach | yep |
| 23:18 | ta | |
| 23:19 | kados | so ... what about definitions? Do you think they could fit in somewhere? |
| 23:19 | rach | yep |
| 23:19 | sorry having a think | |
| 23:19 | kados | np ... /me sets about another idea he had recently |
| 23:20 | rach | ah, so this is on the results page |
| 23:22 | kados | it can be anywhere |
| 23:22 | on the details page as well | |
| 23:22 | rach | OK - one or the things that is a bit "hard" on this pagehttp://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]dies+home+journal |
| 23:22 | kados | that's a two second add |
| 23:22 | rach | on the left, there is the liblime menu |
| 23:22 | kados | right |
| 23:22 | rach | and under it is the help - |
| 23:22 | kados | right |
| 23:22 | Genji | oh.. restart apache... :) |
| 23:22 | kados | Genji: :-) |
| 23:23 | rach | but I think you might want the help over with the other options - so that you're looking in the same place |
| 23:23 | kados | oooh yea ... you're right |
| 23:23 | rach | I'm becoming more of a fan - in an actual library - of not having a whole lot of extra menu options on the page once you're "into" something |
| 23:23 | kados | meaning I could shift the results over to the far left side |
| 23:23 | indradg | kados, the floating text defs are nice :) |
| 23:24 | kados | indradg: thanks ;-) |
| 23:24 | rach | to reduce the visual cluter - particularly as stuff gets more tricky |
| 23:24 | kados | right |
| 23:24 | rach | yep that's the big difference in the variation on NPL that I did |
| 23:25 | indradg | Genji, did u get it to work? |
| 23:25 | rach | so when we had pretty easy search options - it didn't matter much, but if we add in more search stuff you can do, we should probably drop some stuff off as well |
| 23:25 | to omany stuffs in that sentance | |
| 23:25 | Genji | http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org[…]/koha/mainpage.pl |
| 23:25 | rach | http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/ko[…]_details_4?full=1 |
| 23:25 | Genji | yup. strange that opac-main.pl comes up as default. |
| 23:25 | rach | so in there I had all the change your search stuff grouped together |
| 23:26 | and no help :-) | |
| 23:26 | Genji | anyway.... navigate your way to parameters->item categories |
| 23:26 | rach | so not a big improvement :-_) |
| 23:26 | chris | that'll be ur browser caching the redirect genji |
| 23:26 | (ie it will have cached the index.html when it was still pointing to the opac site) | |
| 23:26 | rach | man not even on the menu that was bad of me :-) |
| 23:27 | chris | cos it goes straight to the right place for me (as i hadnt visited it before) |
| 23:27 | Genji | have a play, rach. Add a category, delete a category, modify a category. |
| 23:27 | rach | that;s the wrong page - http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/ko[…]-4/search_ideas_1 that's the equiv isn't it |
| 23:27 | kados | yea ... better |
| 23:27 | indradg | Genji, user/pw ? |
| 23:27 | Genji | koha/koha. |
| 23:28 | indradg | thnx |
| 23:28 | Genji | only got two itemtypes at the mo. suppose i should add more. |
| 23:28 | kados | so in this case, 'ancient rome' could hold the definitions (on the right) |
| 23:29 | rach | cool |
| 23:29 | and a new category | |
| 23:29 | Genji | yup. have a play. |
| 23:29 | rach | yup |
| 23:30 | Genji | now, on to modifying opac-search.pl to pump categories onto the searchresults page, for the sidebar. |
| 23:30 | rach | yup to joshua - or you could have that over by the actual words |
| 23:31 | rachel | so you might want to group the definition, over by the bit that says the keywords you searched on, |
| 23:31 | kados | right |
| 23:32 | dean2 | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]dies+home+journal |
| 23:32 | rachel | sorry just getting page up again |
| 23:34 | kados | I've got to get to bed ... 12:30 am here ;-) |
| 23:34 | rachel | oh so if you were doing it on my one, which says you searched on ancient rome, 70 found |
| 23:34 | kados | thanks for the ideas rach! |
| 23:34 | indradg | g'nite kados |
| 23:34 | rachel | on the right, under that would be nice :-) |
| 23:34 | you've had a big day | |
| 23:34 | kados | yep ;-) |
| 23:34 | rachel | sleep well, don't "fizz" :-) |
| 23:34 | indradg | heh |
| 23:34 | kados | I'll work up another design and let you know ;-) |
| 23:34 | Genji: please commit your work to HEAD asap so I can try it out ;-) | |
| 23:35 | rachel | cool |
| 23:39 | Genji | would probably mean i would have to modify npl's template too. |
| 23:39 | so npl's template would work.... Anyone want any templating work? | |
| 23:41 | okay, thats impressive. msn search on opac... guess what comes up #1? horowhenua's public library. | |
| 23:44 | chris | http://www.google.co.nz/search[…]ta=cr%3DcountryNZ |
| 23:44 | google too, if you search only nz sites | |
| 23:47 | Genji | woot.. got the categories loading onto the template. |
| 23:49 | rachel | this is why we need developer templates |
| 23:49 | so that we have one lot we make changes to | |
| 23:52 | si? | |
| 23:52 | Genji | si, seniorita. |
| 23:54 | rach, you've added a website biblio? | |
| 23:55 | to make use of the website itemtype? | |
| 23:55 | rachel | no |
| 23:55 | I just made the itemtype | |
| 23:56 | Genji | okay. so.. i acquire a website link.... |
| 23:57 | rachel | sorry I've switched computers - what's your link again? |
| 23:59 | I'm not sure what will happen if anything if you do that | |
| 23:59 | we do lots of stuff with website links | |
| 00:00 | but I don't think it's in these templates | |
| 00:01 | it was in our 2.0 ones, but I'm not sure it's in the main ones | |
| 00:01 | Genji | okay.. thats wack. |
| 00:01 | rachel | but it might be |
| 00:02 | Genji | i just added a dummy website link, subject Dummyweb. Searched for it via opac by subject only. Can't find it. Marc subject entry isn't updating when you savebiblio..... |
| 00:02 | wait... ive fixedthis problem before..... someone removed my fix. | |
| 00:04 | kados | cvs -z3 -d:ext:gengisourceforge.net:/cvsroot/koha co koha |
| 00:04 | oops ... the gigs up ;-) | |
| 00:05 | rachel | you're not asleep |
| 00:05 | kados | i came back cause I forgot something ... |
| 00:06 | Genji | need to sometime install coLinux on my harddrive.... |
| 00:07 | http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/ is intranet. i'll put up an opac link soon. | |
| 00:08 | rachel | ah no redirect |
| 00:10 | Genji | huh? |
| 00:10 | rachel | can't get off the front page |
| 00:10 | Genji | hrm. wierdness. |
| 00:10 | rachel | not asked ot login |
| 00:10 | Genji | http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org[…]/koha/mainpage.pl |
| 00:12 | bug with intranet detail.pl ... it uses javascript to create a confirm delete messagebox? well... theres an error in the javascript.. i can't use 'delete' to delete. | |
| 00:14 | okay, now fixed, again, bug with biblio.pm when marc is off. subjects arn't saved into marc ... modsubject sub. | |
| 00:15 | doing dyndns for opac... | |
| 00:19 | http://intranet.genjimoto.is-a[…]/koha/mainpage.pl is intranet | |
| 00:19 | http://opac.genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/ is opac. | |
| 00:22 | okay. so category searches aren't working yet. Working on it.... | |
| 00:28 | kados | :-) |
| 00:28 | rach | you need that milo :-) |
| 00:28 | kados | yea I do |
| 00:28 | rach | actually looking at their websit - maybe not |
| 00:28 | http://www.nestle.co.nz/milo/main.asp | |
| 00:29 | kados | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]%20home%20journal |
| 00:29 | chris | i never understood the milo at night theory |
| 00:29 | kados | rach, chris, Gengi take a look a the amazon image rolovers |
| 00:29 | rollovers that is | |
| 00:29 | chris | here have a pile of caffeine and sugar .. now go to sleep :) |
| 00:29 | kados | hehe |
| 00:29 | rach | it's so they don't get hungry |
| 00:29 | the milk | |
| 00:29 | does that | |
| 00:30 | chris | i reckon ur better off with horlicks |
| 00:30 | kados | http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bi[…]ntains&value=home |
| 00:30 | that's a better link (still some bugs to work out) | |
| 00:30 | roll your mouse over an image | |
| 00:31 | chris | thats kinda cool |
| 00:31 | the only downside i can think of | |
| 00:31 | kados | all css ... just extra page loads |
| 00:31 | chris | yeah |
| 00:32 | kados | it'd be a great way to browse books |
| 00:32 | rach | that just doesn't work in firefox for me |
| 00:32 | chris | your firefox is kinda mental rach |
| 00:32 | kados | what does it do? |
| 00:32 | chris | it does weird stuff with images |
| 00:33 | like the ads thing yesterday | |
| 00:33 | rach | it just doesn't show them |
| 00:33 | kados | weird |
| 00:33 | chris | what version of firefox? |
| 00:33 | it seems to just do mad stuff | |
| 00:34 | rach | 1.0 |
| 00:34 | chris | right they are up to 1.0.4 now |
| 00:34 | rach | Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10.1 |
| 00:34 | chris | wonder if its worth upgrading? |
| 00:35 | rach | seems like it :-) |
| 00:35 | chris | http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ |
| 00:35 | kados | it's pretty easy to upate |
| 00:35 | chris | i think it had some good security fixes in it |
| 00:35 | kados | update that is |
| 00:35 | yea rach you'll want to fix that sll bug | |
| 00:35 | ssl that is ;-) | |
| 00:38 | Genji | okay. new search, category online works as far as my programming is concerned... once again, it looks like saveitem does not save the itemtype into marc. |
| 00:39 | i'll finish it off, by doing the within search, category.. | |
| 00:49 | osmoze | hello, who is the katiposirc admin op ? |
| 00:52 | Genji | WOOOT! |
| 00:53 | Finished Category and Class search. so, only thing needed to do is the available checkbox functionality... and eh... that will be difficult. | |
| 01:08 | rach | joshua if you are still awake - http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album137/search |
| 01:08 | not much better | |
| 01:10 | http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/al[…]7/search_lime_001 | |
| 01:12 | ozmoze - what are you after? | |
| 01:18 | Genji | rach, what you think of the sidebar? not done yet, got to add subcategory filter (like Junior Non-Fiction) and itemtype filter (which the class filter is doing, but shouldn't.) |
| 01:30 | back, after resetting my router. flatmate wanted a few ports. | |
| 01:30 | did i miss anything? | |
| 03:20 | i guess everyones asleep? | |
| 03:27 | FrancoisL | The sun never sets on the Koha empire - it's 10:25 here in glorious Paris, France :) |
| 03:27 | osmoze | It's the same time near Toulouse, France too :) |
| 03:40 | Sylvain | hi/salut |
| 03:44 | koha à l'enssib paul ;) | |
| 03:44 | paul | salut |
| 03:44 | FrancoisL est bien lyrique ce matin... | |
| 03:45 | slef | tu parles! |
| 03:48 | FrancoisL | Salut Paul ! Je suis en réunion... encore... A++ |
| 03:48 | paul | a+ |
| 04:40 | slef | and so on goes the GBP 100 ineffective ID cards problem... http://www.no2id.net/news/pres[…]?name=Kill+Bill+2 |
| 05:20 | paul_lunc | k |
| 05:21 | Sylvain | paul_lunc ça a l'air cool ta poc, ça a l'air tentant ... |
| 05:21 | paul_lunc | on va voir les essais de Nelsonville... |
| 05:21 | FrancoisL | Bon app' ! |
| 05:21 | paul_lunc | bon, là je vais vraiment déjeuner. |
| 06:06 | Genji | hey paul, ya awake? |
| 06:46 | paul | Genji, i'm here |
| 06:54 | Genji | hiya, your a marc guy, yes? you can do marc stuff? |
| 06:59 | paul | tell me your problem. |
| 06:59 | The only note is that i'm unimarc, not MARC21. | |
| 07:01 | Genji | okay. 1. items.holdingbranch in marc tables isn't being updated when items are transfered. not even sure if it gets populated. 2. items.itemtype in marc table isn't getting stored, i don't think. |
| 07:03 | paul | 1. you're right. & may consider this as a bug |
| 07:03 | 2. do you mean biblioitems.itemtype ? | |
| 07:03 | Genji | yes |
| 07:03 | thanks. | |
| 07:04 | paul | then, it's supposed to be populated. so you should have a problem in your data migration and/or parameters |
| 07:05 | Genji | okay. |
| 07:05 | what about bug #1? | |
| 07:07 | paul | in fact it's a problem only when you want to share your MARC datas. |
| 07:07 | otherwise, from circulation, everything is OK. | |
| 07:07 | so, nobody saw this problem until now | |
| 07:07 | (even if I knew it was here) | |
| 07:08 | Genji | eh, im trying to do catalogsearch on items.holdingbranch, amoungst other parameters ofhte search. |
| 07:09 | paul | you're doing something that nobody made before ;-) |
| 07:11 | Genji | no, marclist items.holdingbranch is inside the opac-search.tmpl of the default css.. so, people have used it. |
| 07:14 | anyway. time to sleep. its 12 am here. back at, oh... 6:30am. | |
| 08:21 | slef | indradg: what do you think to removing all but the original (and possibly en) versions of templates and using tmpl_process to generate them at installation time? |
| 08:44 | paul_away | back in 2 hours |
| 11:59 | indradg | slef, i'm back |
← Previous day | Today | Next day → | Search | Index
