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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 14:52 | shaun | hi... is anyone around? |
| 15:31 | people who are here, I have been talking to ben about Free/Open Source disambiguations | |
| 15:33 | shedges | ?? such as... |
| 15:34 | disambiguations? | |
| 15:34 | shaun | on the homepage, we make a big thing of "the first open source integrated library system" but there are a few other ILS that are open source (i.e. perl or ASP) which are open source (obviously) but prevent their users from editing code, redistributing it etc, and charge large amounts of money for them - it is those sorts of differences that we need to focus on |
| 15:35 | shedges | I've been reading book lately -- "The Success of Open Source" bt Steven Weber |
| 15:36 | shaun | To an end user, particularly a conservative one in a school, "maintained by a team of volunteers" says two things: "nerds" and "unprofessional" |
| 15:36 | shedges | He makes the point that in the late 90's, as Linux, Apache, etc. started to be intergrated into commercial enterprises, the word "free" became a problem. |
| 15:38 | shaun | but if we define "free" in depth, it shouldn't be a problem in that way, imo. |
| 15:38 | shedges | too hard to define -- takes too much energy to explain repeatedly |
| 15:39 | shaun | on a separate page then? or linked to the about page? |
| 15:39 | shedges | You're thinking about the description on the koha home page? |
| 15:39 | shaun | yes |
| 15:40 | shedges | too bad we couldn't just do it in French -- libre instead of free |
| 15:41 | is "open source" a common term in the UK? | |
| 15:41 | shaun | if instead of the "volunteers" one, we say something about "individuals representing libraries and other agencies" that should be fine, as nobody does koha without a cause, and it makes it sound like a more professional product. |
| 15:41 | shedges | sure. You could even say "libraries, businesses and other agencies." |
| 15:43 | (I agree that "volunteers" is probably not a good word to use in the description.) | |
| 15:43 | shaun | I don't know about the whole of the UK, but in my community of work and friends, open source is just some other software. |
| 15:46 | shedges | just looking at the koha page |
| 15:46 | I guess we could confuse everybody and say | |
| 15:47 | "Koha, the first GPLed integrated library system" | |
| 15:52 | shaun | lol |
| 15:55 | I'm off now, night all. btw: my new design is going into proof of concept stage | |
| 16:11 | slef | hi all... "open source" is a term used by UK people like the subject of http://perens.com/Articles/Taylor/ |
| 16:12 | I've written about this before http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writing/ambigopen.html | |
| 16:13 | Most of the meanings of "free" relate to liberty. Only a minority relate to cost, but that's a common first understanding in consumerist societies. | |
| 16:14 | So, it would be a big help to English promotion if koha's marketing included "free software" and/or GPL rather than just "open source" | |
| 16:15 | kados: debian is frozen. We could try to make a contrib package, but we'd also have to package some dependencies or make them optional. | |
| 16:16 | s/contrib/vendor/ | |
| 16:16 | not sure about a free meetup.com - debian mostly does it by negotiation like koha | |
| 16:17 | biab | |
| 16:18 | shedges | slef: You'd like to see "Koha, the first free integrated library system" on the home page? |
| 17:03 | slef | shedges: the first free software integrated library system, maybe |
| 19:31 | shedges | part good night |
| 20:19 | kados | slef: In libraries in the US, 'free' is mainly used to refer to cost -- in a recent meeting with a library (potential client) they were totaly confused about why we were charging for something that was free -- it's like once you say the word 'free' here, a red flag goes up and people start being really critical if any money is involved |
| 20:19 | like they are trying to 'catch you' in your lie ... 'there's no such thing as a free lunch' | |
| 20:19 | americans are really touchy about the word | |
| 20:19 | on the other hand, most librarians have heard of open source | |
| 20:20 | and although that term does raise questions it isn't dangerous to use it like with the word 'free' | |
| 20:20 | just my two cents | |
| 21:18 | slef | kados: use free software and give 'em the FSF 4-point. That, or we should internationalise the koha web site and not use either term. |
| 21:19 | With all the software patent directive working its way through the EU institutions, those who have heard of "open source" go "oh, that again" | |
| 21:20 | The biggest EU user of open source has Adobe (Sklyarov Inside?) as a member and is a spin-off from a club that includes Microsoft. That might suggest the spin it has. | |
| 21:20 | user of "open source" as in the phrase | |
| 21:20 | be back much later | |
| 01:52 | indradg | kados, its the same concerns in the India FLOSS community... "free" conjures up the image of "free bear"... the GPL terms are OK... but most ppl find the whole idea of GPL incomprehensible... on the other hand OSS as a concept doesn't carry the same burden... |
| 08:39 | kados | slef: what if the website said: koha, the first "Free and Open Source" integrated library system |
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