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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 01:06 | thd | tcohen: After shopping I have a fix for Canasta specific bugs in LocalSettings.php. Commenting out $IP settings for the MediaWiki working directory near the top which Canasta defines elsewhere resolves path errors. A symlink to canasta-skins is also needed under wherever the Vector skin is loaded which by default in Canasta is config/settings . |
| 04:04 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 04:38 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 04:39 | fridolin | yellow |
| 06:09 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 06:14 | dfs_ joined #koha | |
| 06:16 | dpk_ joined #koha | |
| 06:34 | wajasu joined #koha | |
| 06:58 | alex_ joined #koha | |
| 06:58 | alex_ | Bonjour |
| 06:58 | wahanui | hola, alex_ |
| 07:33 | fridolin | salutations |
| 07:38 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 07:51 | wajasu joined #koha | |
| 09:01 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 09:43 | anne joined #koha | |
| 09:58 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 10:01 | khall joined #koha | |
| 10:06 | khall_ joined #koha | |
| 10:29 | oleonard | @seen cait |
| 10:29 | huginn` | oleonard: cait was last seen in #koha 4 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <cait> bye #koha :) |
| 11:31 | tcohen | hola #koha |
| 12:07 | anyone with ES experience for a quick question? | |
| 12:31 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 12:31 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 12:58 | caroline | hey all! I finally got the OK to go to Kohacon in person yay! Can I ask what hotel yall are staying at? |
| 13:08 | oleonard | Hi caroline, that's great news! I'll be at the SpringHill Suites |
| 13:57 | thd | tcohen: I assume you saw the message from last night that I had fixed Canasta specific errors in LocalSettings.php |
| 13:58 | I am uploading an updated file to your nextcloud now. | |
| 14:09 | tcohen | \o/ |
| 14:09 | I read it | |
| 14:09 | the bouncer sends those to me heh | |
| 14:17 | lukeg joined #koha | |
| 14:39 | kidclamp joined #koha | |
| 14:57 | lukeg joined #koha | |
| 15:00 | bag joined #koha | |
| 15:37 | tcohen | let's see how green Koha_Master gets :-D |
| 15:52 | lukeg joined #koha | |
| 17:40 | tcohen | back |
| 18:00 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 18:01 | fridolin | yellow |
| 18:44 | tuxayo | hi #koha :) |
| 18:44 | tcohen in the meeting agenda, there is something a bit cryptic: | |
| 18:44 | «tcohen to add anything relevant to next meeting's agenda (or point out the bugs)» | |
| 18:46 | tcohen | LOL |
| 19:14 | fridolin | XD |
| 20:44 | tuxayo | meeting in 15min! |
| 20:54 | fridolin | yey |
| 20:55 | tuxayo | meeting in 5min |
| 20:55 | rmaints? | |
| 20:55 | wahanui | rmaints are lukeg, liliputech and tuxayo |
| 20:55 | tuxayo | qa_team? |
| 20:55 | wahanui | qa_team is cait, marcelr, khall, kidclamp, kohaputti, lukeg, aleisha, fridolin, ashimema, tuxayo, nugged, petrova and Joubu |
| 20:56 | tuxayo | and dcook |
| 21:00 | #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 31 August 2022 | |
| 21:00 | huginn` | Meeting started Wed Aug 31 21:00:28 2022 UTC. The chair is tuxayo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 21:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 21:00 | The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_31_august_2022' | |
| 21:00 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 21:00 | tuxayo | #topic Introductions |
| 21:00 | #info Victor Grousset, Tuxayo Spa Pty, France | |
| 21:01 | alexbuckley | #info Alex Buckley, Catalyst IT, NZ |
| 21:04 | tuxayo | davidnind , fridolin around? |
| 21:04 | fridolin | yep |
| 21:05 | #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre, France | |
| 21:06 | aleisha joined #koha | |
| 21:06 | tuxayo | let's chat while waiting for hopefully more people. |
| 21:07 | aleisha | hello! |
| 21:07 | sorry was running late this morning | |
| 21:07 | tuxayo | hi! |
| 21:07 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 21:07 | tuxayo | alexbuckley , aleisha at Catalyst, do you have tickets where librarians don't know why a hold is possible or not due to to much rules? |
| 21:07 | aleisha | #info Aleisha Amohia, Catalyst IT, Wellington New Zealand |
| 21:08 | tuxayo: that specifically hasn't been raised, but occasionally we do have people talk about 'bugs' when it's just conflicting or confusing circulation rules | |
| 21:11 | tuxayo | *advertising music* aleisha I have a patchset for that! I'm rebasing bug 23732 and will finish the last code cleanup before submitting for testing ^^ |
| 21:11 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=23732 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, victor, Patch doesn't apply , Hold rules checker: show matched rules and syspref values to help understand why a hold is possible or not |
| 21:11 | tuxayo | We are a decent number, let's start |
| 21:11 | aleisha | nice :) anything to simplify the application of circ rules is a good idea |
| 21:11 | tuxayo | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ng_31_August_2022 Today's agenda |
| 21:12 | aleisha: It's a diagnostic tool to show what is matched and what blocks | |
| 21:12 | #topic Announcements | |
| 21:12 | Anything to announce that doesn't fit better in the other topics? | |
| 21:12 | aleisha | nothing from me |
| 21:13 | tuxayo | #topic Update from the Release manager (22.05) |
| 21:13 | Some messages from Tomas: | |
| 21:13 | «Jenkins is back to green» | |
| 21:14 | «Many refactoring patches pushed, yay» | |
| 21:14 | team++ | |
| 21:14 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 21:14 | tuxayo | ~«recent focus on stabilizing things, and succeeded» |
| 21:14 | tcohen++ | |
| 21:15 | «I'll be out next week» | |
| 21:15 | «so I won't probably push big things the next days» | |
| 21:15 | #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers | |
| 21:15 | rmaints? | |
| 21:15 | wahanui | rmaints are lukeg, liliputech and tuxayo |
| 21:16 | tuxayo | All dependencies to bug 25439 are backported to 21.05.x so it should be compatible with ES 7, more on that latter in the agenda. |
| 21:16 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25439 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [Omnibus] Prepare Koha to ElasticSearch 7 - ES7 |
| 21:17 | tuxayo | #topic Updates from the QA team |
| 21:17 | qa_team? | |
| 21:17 | wahanui | qa_team is, like, cait, marcelr, khall, kidclamp, kohaputti, lukeg, aleisha, fridolin, ashimema, tuxayo, nugged, petrova, Joubu and dcook |
| 21:17 | aleisha | i think cait is not here to give an update |
| 21:17 | but i can take stuff from her latest email | |
| 21:18 | tuxayo | For me quite some time spend at the beginning the month on Joubu's refactorings. |
| 21:18 | aleisha | #info lots of old bugs that need shifting |
| 21:18 | tuxayo | aleisha: good idea, please do! |
| 21:19 | aleisha | #info many of the team are on holiday (or will be soon) so community help to clear some old and bad bugs from the list would be much appreciated! |
| 21:19 | tuxayo | As for Joubu (away for 2 months) large patches remaining I thing there is |
| 21:19 | Bug 27421 | |
| 21:19 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=27421 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Failed QA , Porting tools/stage-marc-import.pl to BackgroundJob |
| 21:19 | tuxayo | ↑ help needed to fix the issue |
| 21:19 | And Bug 30982 | |
| 21:19 | fridolin | tuxayo: 21.11 is compatible with ES7+6 or is ES7 mandatory ? |
| 21:19 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=30982 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Signed Off , Use the REST API for background job list view |
| 21:20 | tuxayo | fridolin: both compatible |
| 21:20 | aleisha: anything else? | |
| 21:20 | fridolin | ahhh great, we should update https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]d_recommendations |
| 21:20 | tuxayo | fridolin: that's precisely a latter point in the meeting ^^ |
| 21:21 | moving on then? | |
| 21:21 | aleisha | nothing else |
| 21:21 | tuxayo | #topic Status of roadmap projects |
| 21:22 | #link https://annuel.framapad.org/p/koha_22.11_roadmap Roadmap | |
| 21:22 | fridolin | sorry ^^7 |
| 21:22 | tuxayo | thd: any news about the wiki upgrades? |
| 21:23 | thd | tcohen, ashimema, and I met yesterday about testing the wiki with Canasta MediaWiki Docker image on the Koha Docker infrastructure. |
| 21:23 | tuxayo | fridolin: that's okay, you guessed well that we should do something now that all tickets are implemented |
| 21:23 | thd | We missed the previous week when we did not have a formal enough appointment and my laptop broke |
| 21:23 | tuxayo | ouch |
| 21:24 | > Koha Docker infrastructure | |
| 21:24 | The portainer thing? | |
| 21:24 | thd | tcohen is working on modifying the Canasta Docker image to have a persistent database reference etc. |
| 21:24 | Portainer exactly | |
| 21:26 | I fixed several bugs for how the Canasta Docker container moved a few things out of LocalSettings.php and broke for the Docker image where everything had worked without Docker. | |
| 21:26 | tuxayo | thd: Is the plan still to go live very soon? Like after Tomas comes back from next week leave. |
| 21:26 | thd | tcohen had a bit of time this week but will be away next week. |
| 21:26 | Yes. | |
| 21:27 | tuxayo | Exiting! |
| 21:27 | thd++ | |
| 21:27 | tcohen++ | |
| 21:27 | anything else to add on any project? | |
| 21:27 | thd | Docker is a slightly different target for which adjustments have been needed. |
| 21:29 | I am building some automated code for supporting the Docker image etc. but everything will work without it. | |
| 21:30 | My broken laptop was no great tragedy. I had been given the laptop because it had a broken hinge and over time the broken pried the back of the laptop apart because the hinge was stronger than the plastic housing. The power connector even fell victim. | |
| 21:31 | tuxayo | :o |
| 21:31 | thd | Look after your hinges. |
| 21:32 | tuxayo | I have one that broke because I didn't often enough rescrewed it. It's now miraculously held by glue! |
| 21:32 | #topic Actions from last meeting | |
| 21:32 | #action ashimema needs to remove an introduced warning on bug 28854 tests (or test for its existence) | |
| 21:33 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=28854 new feature, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, Add ability to create bundles of items for circulation |
| 21:33 | tuxayo | « Task queue: marcelr willt take on bugs 27421 and 30718 » |
| 21:33 | done | |
| 21:33 | marcelr++ | |
| 21:33 | « qa_team high priority for bugs 30462 and 30982 » | |
| 21:34 | One was mentioned earlier and the other might have been in the weekly QA email | |
| 21:34 | #action liliputech (deferred from previous meetingx2) discuss koha CI (docker image built + manual build) hosting on gitlab instance provided by BibLibre's partner AFI. | |
| 21:35 | @later tell liliputech any news about this? http://irc.koha-community.org/[…]2-08-31#i_2447474 | |
| 21:35 | huginn` | tuxayo: The operation succeeded. |
| 21:35 | tuxayo | «Katrin to update LTS wiki page with current information from last dev meeting» |
| 21:35 | We have any LTS wiki page? | |
| 21:35 | *an | |
| 21:35 | Ah, right https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]workflow_proposal | |
| 21:35 | #action Katrin to update LTS wiki page with current information from last dev meeting | |
| 21:35 | still todo | |
| 21:36 | #action tcohen will make a counter proposal about public_read_list() | |
| 21:36 | @later tell tcohen any news about this? http://irc.koha-community.org/[…]2-08-31#i_2447483 | |
| 21:36 | huginn` | tuxayo: The operation succeeded. |
| 21:37 | tuxayo | #action ashimema will file a bug making Koha::Object::public_read_list throw an exception |
| 21:37 | @later tell ashimema Any news about this? http://irc.koha-community.org/[…]2-08-31#i_2447486 | |
| 21:37 | huginn` | tuxayo: The operation succeeded. |
| 21:37 | aleisha | can i add an action? |
| 21:37 | tuxayo | Yes! |
| 21:37 | aleisha | #action rename the master branch to 'main' |
| 21:38 | #action document the use of flatpickr in the koha community wiki | |
| 21:38 | tuxayo | Ah yes renaming_master++ |
| 21:39 | fridolin | for my projects i prefer 'trunk' |
| 21:39 | tuxayo | flatpickr: there is precisely a point about that in "Review of coding guidelines" :D |
| 21:39 | #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) | |
| 21:39 | Renaming master | |
| 21:40 | main, trunk, dev, develop, whatever works best | |
| 21:40 | fridolin | since there are branches ... |
| 21:40 | alexbuckley | I love Bug 23732 tuxayo, sorry hexchat disconnected so couldn't reply sooner! |
| 21:40 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=23732 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, victor, Patch doesn't apply , Hold rules checker: show matched rules and syspref values to help understand why a hold is possible or not |
| 21:40 | fridolin | and cherries to pick ^^ |
| 21:40 | tuxayo | :D |
| 21:41 | alexbuckley | I have a query about a bug report: I wrote to the dev mailing list about Bug 25090 (Moderate OPAC self registrations before a patron account is created) and had some very useful responses. I was wondering if anyone here had thoughts/opinions on how it should be implemented and if it is a feature you're in favour of? |
| 21:41 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25090 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alexbuckley, ASSIGNED , Moderate OPAC self registrations before a patron account is created |
| 21:41 | tuxayo | alexbuckley: ok, let's see that on next topic |
| 21:41 | alexbuckley | sounds good! |
| 21:42 | tuxayo | main is the most often used alternative to master. Trunk indeed fits the theme of trees ^^ |
| 21:42 | Anyone have experience about using main? | |
| 21:42 | I recall some phrase usage got confusing but I can't find it :( | |
| 21:43 | aleisha | we use main internally at catalyst, it was an easy switch for us! |
| 21:43 | tuxayo | main looks too vague but I can't make a strong case |
| 21:43 | aleisha: ah, cool! | |
| 21:43 | aleisha | i understand the poetry of trunk with branches :) but it might be a bit too abstract? |
| 21:44 | we should think about the intention of the branch, and name it according to that | |
| 21:44 | tuxayo | Trunk still looks less abstract than main for a branch. |
| 21:44 | So no confusion with main in the daily usage? | |
| 21:48 | alexbuckley | tuxayo, no we haven't had any confusion switching to using main, it was a smooth change :) |
| 21:48 | tuxayo | great :D |
| 21:48 | So no reserves anymore from me about main ^^ | |
| 21:49 | How should be proceed? Have a poll for the name on each meeting slot? Have a poll for the name in the koha-devel list? | |
| 21:49 | thd | main is the latest convention |
| 21:50 | tuxayo | indeed |
| 21:51 | *we proceed | |
| 21:52 | thd | Underlying utilities accept main and importantly will accept previous conventions indefinitely so that old code does not break. |
| 21:52 | tuxayo | Oh, so there people using tool that work with only either master or main? |
| 21:53 | *there are | |
| 21:56 | thd | The main branch could be named anything but 'main' now has the reserved special meaning in some utilities. |
| 21:58 | tuxayo | Ok so we still have the choice IIUC |
| 21:59 | Who to take the task to propose the change in the mailing list? (or another preferred strategy) | |
| 22:00 | thd | There are many people not here presently very much more expert than I about code repository usage. I pay attention to the language I see particularly when I have some problem. |
| 22:02 | tuxayo | #action tuxayo propose change from master branch in the other meeting slot (EU-AM) |
| 22:02 | thd | The question should be put to experts on koha-devel and not popular opinion on koha-list where people may not understand what might break with some choice. |
| 22:02 | tuxayo | In koha-devel indeed |
| 22:02 | alexbuckley: you had something earlier | |
| 22:02 | alexbuckley | yep! |
| 22:03 | tuxayo | «query about a bug report: I wrote to the dev mailing list about Bug 25090 (Moderate OPAC self registrations before a patron account is created) and had some very useful responses. I was wondering if anyone here had thoughts/opinions on how it should be implemented and if it is a feature you're in favour of?» |
| 22:03 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25090 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alexbuckley, ASSIGNED , Moderate OPAC self registrations before a patron account is created |
| 22:05 | tuxayo | alexbuckley: So PatronSelfRegistrationVerifyByEmail would not send the link to the patron but to a librarian to aprove? |
| 22:05 | Then the email address of the patron won't be verified right? | |
| 22:06 | Can that be a problem? | |
| 22:06 | The advantage of the proposal is that it looks simple to implement | |
| 22:07 | alexbuckley | that would be a problem for sure. I was thinking a workaround could be if PatronSelfRegistrationVerifyByEmail is enabled a librarian still sees a notification on the staff client home page to moderate. if they approve the registration then an email is sent to the patron to verify their email address |
| 22:07 | thd | The issue seems to mask a more complex issue of the need for granular access controls to various resources which may be accessed via the OPAC. |
| 22:07 | tuxayo | alexbuckley: ah yes it could work! |
| 22:08 | thd: «more complex issue of the need for granular access controls to various resources which may be accessed via the OPAC.» | |
| 22:08 | How much is there a need for that? Hopefully we can get away with simple solutions like the above one | |
| 22:09 | Anyone else has feedback for Alex? | |
| 22:09 | thd | The proposed solution is certainly better than not having a solution which would require more work. |
| 22:09 | An improvement for the issue of access control does not conflict with the proposed solution. | |
| 22:10 | tuxayo | indeed |
| 22:10 | alexbuckley | yeah :) |
| 22:10 | tuxayo | > not having a solution which would require more work. |
| 22:10 | That's the less work actually (nothing!) but it leaves the door open for abuse. | |
| 22:11 | maybe I missunderstood | |
| 22:11 | thd | The proposed solution includes a nothing option so status quo can be maintained where desired. |
| 22:12 | alexbuckley | yeah I thought that would be very important to add |
| 22:12 | tuxayo | Ah olk |
| 22:12 | *ok | |
| 22:12 | alexbuckley | it's basically giving libraries the option of moderating new accounts, like they can with patron change requests of existing accounts |
| 22:13 | nice thanks all, I will continue thinking/working on this feature as proposed and we can look at access controls in a separate patch perhaps :) | |
| 22:14 | tuxayo | And likely you will need to maintain the patron email verification. |
| 22:14 | moving on | |
| 22:14 | alexbuckley | exactly! |
| 22:14 | tuxayo | Are we supporting MySQL? (either 5.7 or 8.0) - CI only tests MySQL 8 on Master. |
| 22:15 | If the CI on main/main checks it then it should work. But should it be advertised and tested on the stable branches? | |
| 22:16 | Or is it just so we don't introduce MariaDBisms and there is no need to support MySQL? | |
| 22:17 | fridolin: heard about that when you were RM? | |
| 22:17 | aleisha: alexbuckley: any customer using MySQL? | |
| 22:18 | fridolin | tuxayo: mmm sorry nope |
| 22:19 | * thd | has long thought that we should not be introducing MySQLisms of any sort but database agnostic is too much work hence the problem with the wiki database choice for what was only a testing instance at the time. |
| 22:19 | fridolin | we at biblibre are sticked to MariaDB so we are not really aware of that |
| 22:19 | alexbuckley | tuxayo, we tend to use mariadb for I think all our clients |
| 22:20 | tuxayo | thd: Once the ORM is everywhere shouldn't we be almost database agnostic without effort? |
| 22:20 | We might still have handcrafted queries in some places, I don't know | |
| 22:21 | * fridolin | AFK |
| 22:21 | tuxayo | ok, I'll asking what should we do |
| 22:21 | thd | Almost everyone uses MariaDB. If something would break on MariaDB we should certainly know but that would more likely be caught elsewhere before Koha. |
| 22:22 | tuxayo | #action tuxayo defer «Are we supporting MySQL? (either 5.7 or 8.0) - CI only tests MySQL 8 on main/master.» |
| 22:23 | Can we claim ES7 support now? And switch default version for KTD to 7. | |
| 22:23 | thd | The issue may be more of an issue about whether everything can be backported to whatever is being supported for LTS whether MySQL or MariaDB. |
| 22:23 | tuxayo | Omnibus dependencies are done. bugg 25439 |
| 22:23 | *bug 25439 | |
| 22:23 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=25439 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [Omnibus] Prepare Koha to ElasticSearch 7 - ES7 |
| 22:24 | tuxayo | thd: We do not commit to support unsupported version of the DBMS IIUC. So someone using LTS will have to keep an up to date OS or just the DBMS |
| 22:25 | aleisha: alexbuckley : are you using ES in production? | |
| 22:25 | shoots, fridolin is AFK | |
| 22:25 | alexbuckley | we are for at least 2 clients, they are loving it! |
| 22:26 | hopefully shift some over to ES soon :) | |
| 22:26 | tuxayo | Great! ES 6 I guess |
| 22:27 | alexbuckley | yep ES 6 |
| 22:28 | tuxayo | So until now, if there as security vulnerability in ES, like log4J, ES 6 would be unpatched since it's EOL. So we had this Damocles sword over our head. But not anymore it seems. |
| 22:29 | alexbuckley | ahh I see |
| 22:29 | tuxayo | There are no more known incompatibilities with ES 7. So should be advertise the support? |
| 22:30 | alexbuckley | that sounds good from my perspective |
| 22:31 | tuxayo | Ok, I'll ask around before changing that |
| 22:31 | #action tuxayo defer «Can we claim ES7 support now?» | |
| 22:31 | alexbuckley | tuxayo++ |
| 22:32 | tuxayo | alexbuckley: Also, the latest versions of ES 7 and all of ES 8 aren't libre anymore did you heard about that? (not libre according to Debian, Fedora and the Open Source Initiative) |
| 22:32 | thd | At some point, ES 8 license change may be an issue even if the company most backing the OpenSearch fork is not your friend. |
| 22:32 | tuxayo | And heard about OpenSearch, the fork made mainly by Amazon. |
| 22:33 | alexbuckley | I had not heard about that, so thanks for that tuxayo |
| 22:33 | good to know | |
| 22:33 | tuxayo | Do you have plans to stay on a libre search engine? |
| 22:33 | Indeed, it was a quite dramatic change from ElasticSearch | |
| 22:34 | thd: yes, it really sucks that it's almost only Amazon that is behind the libre fork... | |
| 22:34 | alexbuckley | hmm at this stage I'm not sure, we'll need a team discussion here to decide the next steps |
| 22:35 | tuxayo | Indeed if you just learned about the thing |
| 22:35 | Definitly worth having that in the agenda | |
| 22:35 | alexbuckley | yeah! |
| 22:35 | tuxayo | OpenSearch support is on the way |
| 22:35 | Most work has been done to have it usable on KTD and the CI | |
| 22:36 | So we will see if our tests pass and if basic usage work | |
| 22:36 | It should, since OpenSearch 1.x is a drop in replacement for ES 7 | |
| 22:37 | Since some time there is OpenSearch 2.x so the project is getting mature. | |
| 22:37 | Moving on | |
| 22:37 | #topic Review of coding guidelines | |
| 22:37 | « SQL8 of our coding guidelines state that SQL should not be in .pl, but should be in the module in C4 or Koha. This would mean that SQL in the Koha namespace is allowed and there is no mention of DBIC in the coding guidelines right now. » | |
| 22:37 | thd | Amazon services have been outcompeting many companies for commercial business using cross subsidies for online computing services but the better way for business may the NextCloud libre way and just forgo the business which was never the core business which Amazon has captured. |
| 22:37 | aleisha | #info using and configuring flatpickr needs to be documented |
| 22:38 | tuxayo | That's the next point |
| 22:38 | «This would mean that SQL in the Koha namespace is allowed and there is no mention of DBIC in the coding guidelines right now.» | |
| 22:38 | So it's about updating the guideline to allow SQL in DBIC schema files? | |
| 22:39 | (The generated clases for the ORM that have a non generated part where we can put custom queries) | |
| 22:41 | I'll ask in the other meeting slot. | |
| 22:41 | #action defer coding guideline «SQL8 of our coding guidelines state that SQL should not be in .pl, but should be in the module in C4 or Koha. This would mean that SQL in the Koha namespace is allowed and there is no mention of DBIC in the coding guidelines right now.» | |
| 22:41 | #action tuxayo defer coding guideline «SQL8 of our coding guidelines state that SQL should not be in .pl, but should be in the module in C4 or Koha. This would mean that SQL in the Koha namespace is allowed and there is no mention of DBIC in the coding guidelines right now.» | |
| 22:41 | now for «Update guidelines with the replacement of jQueryUI Datepicker with flatpickr» | |
| 22:42 | aleisha | ah sorry thanks tuxayo :) |
| 22:42 | tuxayo | aleisha: so it's just about replacing the mention of jQueryUI Datepicker and flatpickr? |
| 22:42 | It's as simple as that? | |
| 22:42 | aleisha | yes making sure the coding guidelines reflect how to implement the flatpickr |
| 22:42 | its very slightly different to using datepicker | |
| 22:43 | i had to learn how to implement it by looking at other cases in the code | |
| 22:43 | tuxayo | Ah ok, so just a search and replace in the coding guidelines isn't enough ^^" |
| 22:43 | thd | Yay but neither works with lynx :( |
| 22:44 | tuxayo | aleisha: If you had to recently learn about this, are you up to draft how the guidelines should be updated? |
| 22:45 | aleisha | hmmm i dont think id be comfortable doing that because im not sure if what ive figured out is 'best practice'! |
| 22:45 | whoever first implemented flatpickr would be better placed for that | |
| 22:45 | tuxayo | It would of course be reread before added to the wiki page |
| 22:46 | thd: If someone has the time to make and test patches to improve command line browser support, I guess they could be merged if that doesn't add complexity. | |
| 22:47 | aleisha: What is the patch that introduced flatpickr? | |
| 22:47 | To find who to reach for documenting the usage | |
| 22:47 | aleisha | im not sure i'd have to search for it |
| 22:48 | i'll see if i can find | |
| 22:48 | tuxayo | can't find it |
| 22:48 | thd | console browsing is dying with all the JavaScript and screen scraping is more difficult :( |
| 22:48 | aleisha | bug 29239 |
| 22:48 | huginn` | Bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=29239 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Replace jQueryUI's timepicker with flatpickr |
| 22:49 | tuxayo | aleisha++ |
| 22:50 | I'll call for people who know about flatpickr usage | |
| 22:51 | #action tuxayo defer QA guidelines: «Update guidelines with the replacement of jQueryUI Datepicker with flatpickr - introduced in bug 29239» | |
| 22:51 | aleisha | thanks tuxayo ! |
| 22:51 | tuxayo | #topic Set time of next meeting |
| 22:52 | Next meeting in the time slot, same time the 29th? | |
| 22:52 | *this time slot | |
| 22:53 | #info Next meeting: 14 September 2022, 14 UTC | |
| 22:53 | This if for EU-Americas timeslot | |
| 22:54 | And for Oceania-Americas: | |
| 22:54 | #info Next Oceania-Americas meeting: 29 September 2022, 21 UTC | |
| 22:54 | #endmeeting | |
| 22:54 | huginn` | Meeting ended Wed Aug 31 22:54:30 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 22:54 | Minutes: https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-08-31-21.00.html | |
| 22:54 | Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]2-08-31-21.00.txt | |
| 22:54 | Log: https://meetings.koha-communit[…]31-21.00.log.html | |
| 22:54 | aleisha | tuxayo++ |
| 22:54 | tuxayo | Thanks all for the attendance with the heavy agenda ^^ |
| 22:55 | alexbuckley | tuxayo++ thank you! |
| 22:55 | aleisha | thanks! |
| 22:56 | tuxayo | thd: Indeed, we introduce stuff that degrade support and few people/no one have the time to test and submit patches to improve/stabilize support |
| 22:59 | thd | The world in general has too much unnecessary JavaScript such that netbook level specifications are inadequate for basic use web use often for no good reason or because the ad server is enhanced by JavaScript. |
| 23:01 | aleisha | yes it is interesting that we have many pages on the staff interface dependent on JS. we used to have a guideline that the OPAC must always be fully operable with JS disabled - is that still true? |
| 23:01 | thd | I have never succeeded at building browsh which should at least help with console browser support of JavaScript. |
| 23:01 | tuxayo | "too much unnecessary JavaScript" In our case, a datepicker is okay isn't it? |
| 23:01 | "the ad server is enhanced by JavaScript" ? | |
| 23:01 | thd | People can always type in a date. |
| 23:02 | aleisha | it's ok but i agree it isn't necessary, if there is a hint that shows the intended format then that works too |
| 23:02 | it's a helper but it isn't necessary | |
| 23:02 | thd | JavaScript helps with tracking behaviour etc. for serving ads. |
| 23:03 | tuxayo | «we used to have a guideline that the OPAC must always be fully operable with JS disabled - is that still true?» |
| 23:03 | If we don't have the guideline, I guess it isn't any more. | |
| 23:03 | Otherwise we can't use the API in the UI | |
| 23:04 | That's okay use of the JavaScript isn't it? | |
| 23:04 | browsh, note the name just in case, thanks for the reference thd | |
| 23:05 | thd | Date pickers were not always JavaScript but they may all be now. |
| 23:06 | aleisha | i have to head off now, bye all! |
| 23:06 | tuxayo | «People can always type in a date.» |
| 23:06 | Even with a hint, that doesn't look reliable enough. Maybe I'm too pesimist | |
| 23:06 | thd | browsh is a console based version of the Mozilla browser but it tends to segfault at build time so I have yet to have access to a working version. |
| 23:08 | tuxayo | «JavaScript helps with tracking behaviour etc. for serving ads.» |
| 23:08 | I see. Ads should be blocked, it's malware for humans, exploiting our vulnerabilities. It shouldn't be tolerated and other ways to revenue should be tried (and accepting to fail as a business if they don't work) | |
| 23:09 | > Date pickers were not always JavaScript | |
| 23:09 | How did they work? :o | |
| 23:09 | thd | I work with some people who have very low vision and are nearly blind. The high contrast black and white view of many websites from big companies is unusable. |
| 23:10 | tuxayo | I would have though high contrast black and white was the best ^^" |
| 23:13 | thd | At one time more code was once server side but was much less of a bandwidth burden than sending large JavaScript libraries. Flatpickr is an improvement for being a lightweight calendar implementation. Generating dates and times has historically been a major consumption of CPU time with heavy Perl libraries which we replaced. |
| 23:29 | High contrast black and white is great in a console browser such as lynx but forcing black and white for the disabled on Firefox or Chrome can make forms display black on black or giant click through overlays of all white or black with no obvious way to for elderly disabled people to pass beyond them. | |
| 23:33 | Web browser updates from a few months ago have broken accessibility for all black and white forms in Firefox, consequently I had to disable Firefox updates for the nearly blind elderly people I know. | |
| 23:42 | tuxayo | > Generating dates and times has historically been a major consumption of CPU time with heavy Perl libraries which we replaced. |
| 23:42 | Really? Converting an ISO date to a MM/DD/YYYY format what CPU heavy? | |
| 23:42 | *was | |
| 23:43 | > make forms display black on black | |
| 23:43 | The background of the <input> field would be black on black, is that what you mean? | |
| 23:44 | thd | Automated profiling at one time showed the Date::Time or whatever module it was that Koha had been using regularly took more CPU time than anything else. |
| 23:45 | Yes black foreground on a black background is a real usability problem as is white on white. | |
| 23:48 | Form functionality seems to be an untested aspect of the super high contrast themes with only black and white. Poorly maintained extensions are the only thing which had kept forms working but browser updates break extensions. | |
| 23:50 | Try and avoid the combination of glaucoma and macular degeneration. Have good genes and wear sunglasses to protect your eyes. | |
| 23:50 | thd left #koha | |
| 23:51 | thd joined #koha |
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