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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
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| 00:12 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.05_U18 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_19.05_U18/65/ |
| 00:21 | Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.05_D8/65/ | |
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| 00:22 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #32: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/32/ |
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| 00:28 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.05_D9 build #66: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.05_D9/66/ |
| 00:32 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #33: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/33/ | |
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| 00:50 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #34: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/34/ |
| 01:00 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #35: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/35/ | |
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| 01:15 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #36: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/36/ |
| 01:25 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #37: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/37/ | |
| 01:45 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #38: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/38/ | |
| 02:00 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #39: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/39/ | |
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| 02:10 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #40: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/40/ |
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| 02:20 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #41: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/41/ |
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| 02:26 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #42: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/42/ |
| 02:26 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #43: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/43/ | |
| 02:34 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #44: STILL FAILING in 4 min 2 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/44/ | |
| 02:35 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #45: STILL FAILING in 1.7 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/45/ | |
| 02:49 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #46: STILL FAILING in 4 min 10 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/46/ | |
| 02:55 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #47: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/47/ | |
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| 03:15 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #48: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/48/ |
| 03:20 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #49: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/49/ | |
| 03:25 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #50: ABORTED in 45 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_D8/50/ | |
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| 04:11 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #1: SUCCESS in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D8/1/ |
| 04:46 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #2: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D8/2/ | |
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| 07:16 | magnuse | \o/ |
| 07:41 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 07:41 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:48 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 07:50 | magnuse | bonjour reiveune |
| 07:52 | reiveune | salut magnuse |
| 07:56 | koha-jenkins | Yippee, build fixed! |
| 07:56 | wahanui | Congratulations! |
| 07:56 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_Master_D8 build #560: FIXED in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_Master_D8/560/ |
| 07:57 | Yippee, build fixed! | |
| 07:57 | wahanui | Congratulations! |
| 07:57 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest build #8: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]_D9_MDB_Latest/8/ |
| 07:58 | magnuse | @confetti |
| 07:58 | huginn | magnuse: downloading the Perl source |
| 07:58 | alex_a joined #koha | |
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| 07:59 | alex_a | Bonjour |
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| 08:05 | magnuse | hiya alex_a |
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| 08:27 | koha-jenkins | Yippee, build fixed! |
| 08:27 | wahanui | Congratulations! |
| 08:27 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_Master_U18 build #503: FIXED in 47 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/503/ |
| 08:36 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 08:42 | nlegrand | אַ גוט יאָר! |
| 08:42 | cait | hebrew? |
| 08:43 | nlegrand | yiddish :) |
| 08:43 | a gut yor! | |
| 08:43 | cait | :) |
| 08:43 | nlegrand | It's a greeting for the new year and also everyday ^^ |
| 08:45 | cait | a good new year to you too :) |
| 08:45 | what's the year right now? | |
| 08:46 | nlegrand | 5780 since the 30 september 2019 |
| 08:47 | speaking about years, it's something a bit hard to do for us in Koha right now, because the mapped unimarc field is the field that print the year as it is written in the books. | |
| 08:48 | So as an oriental library we have all the calendar system of the world and cannot really sort by date. | |
| 08:48 | magnuse | nlegrand: awesome! :-) |
| 08:48 | nlegrand | There is a standart date in the coded areas we don't know how to extract it to apply it to a koha field |
| 08:50 | and right in january, the french university libraries are supposed to map a new field to the koha field without correcting all the preceding fields. | |
| 08:50 | Biblibre and a lot of other vendors are complaining ^^ | |
| 08:51 | ashimema | I'm not sure I followed that fully.. |
| 08:51 | but it sounds resolvable by code to me.. | |
| 08:52 | nlegrand | My motto is: “never mess with date” and everytime I see someone doing a patch on dates or holidays I'm thinking “how brave he is” or just “wow”. |
| 08:52 | ashimema: ho certainly, but have you seen my motto ;D | |
| 08:52 | cait | i think it's not that bad with the calendar |
| 08:52 | search in the records is a different matter | |
| 08:52 | what marc21 one does is sort on the date in 008 | |
| 08:52 | ashimema | hehe |
| 08:52 | cait | which is a standardized date |
| 08:53 | and then the publication date /copyright date mess is handled in the 260/264 (rda) | |
| 08:53 | magnuse | marc is a mess |
| 08:53 | cait | so in 008 you'd have a sortable date... not sure if unimarc has something equivalent |
| 08:53 | ashimema | are there any standard routines for getting a standardised date from the various localised dates? |
| 08:53 | cait | actuaqlly i think this bit makes sense... but in general i agree |
| 08:54 | we are lucky there - the 'standard year' is part of the union catalog cataloguing rules so 008 is set nicely | |
| 08:54 | and they can also add the hebrew years for display | |
| 08:56 | ashimema | for the display field.. is there a part of the field which states what calendar it's using? |
| 08:56 | cait | not sure how htis is handled in marc |
| 08:56 | nlegrand | ashimema: it'll be very hard to implement. We've got dates in more than thirty hundred languages, with almost every writting system of the world, and most of those dates are written in a non standard way. |
| 08:57 | ashimema | ouch |
| 08:57 | good luck with that ;) | |
| 08:59 | nlegrand | :) |
| 08:59 | kohaputti | nlegrand, are you able to write the dates in one way and then translate the dates to other calendar systems? |
| 08:59 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 09:00 | kohaputti | like is it possible to translate to all calendar systems you use from one calendar system |
| 09:00 | ashimema | i imagine it's the other way around kohaputti |
| 09:01 | I imagine cataloguers are getting dates from books and those dates are localized.. so they want to enter the localised date and have it magically populate both the localised and standardised fields | |
| 09:01 | with the standardised one going through a conversion | |
| 09:02 | but.. it sounds like there are waaaay too many variations to get it right | |
| 09:02 | cait | i don't think marc lends to that |
| 09:04 | ashimema | indeed |
| 09:06 | nlegrand | kohaputti: the librarian write the gregorian publication date in zone 100: http://documentation.abes.fr/s[…]nmb/zones/100.htm |
| 09:07 | note this is note standard UNIMARC, it is more “frenchuniversitylibrariesMARC” or “ABESMARC” | |
| 09:08 | we should extract just part of this field to map it to koha publication date. | |
| 09:10 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 09:12 | nlegrand | It's always a wonder to me when the ABES (kind of authority for cataloguing in the french university libraries) notifies us practices to be UNIMARC compliant when we are UNIMARC non compliant in almost everyzone :D |
| 09:18 | magnuse | is MARC one of the most flexible standards in existence? |
| 09:20 | andreashm joined #koha | |
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| 09:25 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 09:29 | nlegrand | magnuse: well I've worked with TEI which is not a standard but only “guidelines” and which everyone thinks it has the same virtues a standard has. Pretty confusing. |
| 09:41 | magnuse | nlegrand: sounds like fun! |
| 09:42 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 09:45 | magnuse | hm, where are the guidelines on splitting into several patches for database updates etc? |
| 09:50 | Joubu | it's not really a guideline, not sure it's enforced by QA. It is more for readability if the patch is big |
| 09:51 | the thing to not add is the schema changes, they should not be provided, or in a separate patch | |
| 10:02 | magnuse | ah, ok, this thing is not so big, so i'll do one patch, sans schema changes |
| 10:02 | Joubu++ | |
| 10:02 | after lunch, that is... | |
| 10:10 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 10:15 | ashimema | as RM I don't worry too much.. having a distinct patch for schema changes helps me in so much as it's a reminder to reubild the schema.. but in general I have scripts that remind me to do DB updates stuff which are triggered by the present of files in atomicupdate or changes to the standard sql files.. |
| 10:16 | whenever the script alerts me to those changes I run through the process of doing the DB and Schema updates as required.. | |
| 10:16 | regardles of how they were comitted in the first place | |
| 10:46 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 11:11 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 11:12 | magnuse | clever ashimema |
| 11:15 | ashimema: how about this: https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]DBIC_schema_files "Booleans have to be annotated as booleans in the schema files." Do you do that too? | |
| 11:16 | ashimema | good question |
| 11:16 | I should.. but I'm not in the best habbits for it.. find it easy to forget :( | |
| 11:16 | khall joined #koha | |
| 11:17 | ashimema | I believe we have tests to catch it though unless I'm mistaken.. I've certainly added them in followups a few times when i've forgotten so something must be alerting me to my mistake ;) |
| 11:21 | magnuse | looks like Itemtype.pm has one boolean that is not flagged |
| 11:21 | and i am adding two more | |
| 11:28 | ashimema | thanks for flagging it |
| 11:29 | Joubu | there is a QA test for that |
| 11:29 | ashimema | :) |
| 11:35 | paxed | there doesn't seem to be a consensus in kohastructure.sql whether a boolean is a tinyint(1) or a BOOLEAN |
| 11:38 | khall joined #koha | |
| 11:38 | ashimema | there's at least one bug regarding that.. |
| 11:38 | it was in discussion but I thought we agreed on an approach | |
| 11:39 | tcohen and Joubu were involved.. as was I | |
| 11:39 | I think I prefered tinyint(1) becuase BOOLEAN isn't standard SQL | |
| 11:39 | but I can't remember what the QA script fires on.. we also talked about requiring the kohastrucutre file to be commented | |
| 11:40 | Joubu | must be defined as tinyint(1) in the DB structure, then boolean in the schema file |
| 11:41 | magnuse | https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]s#SQL12:_Booleans |
| 11:42 | ashimema | that's the one |
| 11:42 | squash all the bugs.. :) | |
| 11:42 | magnuse | hehe |
| 11:43 | * magnuse | hopes bug 22833 is ok |
| 11:43 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=22833 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Block suspend and cancel on holds |
| 11:43 | paxed | i guess the QA tools don't check the db structure for booleans |
| 11:45 | ashimema | they check for changes in commits |
| 11:45 | so.. pre-existing stuff isn't caught | |
| 11:45 | I did think we'd agreed to go back and fix them.. and thought tcohen had volunteered but I can't see any bug for it | |
| 11:46 | so it's likely fallen off somone's file | |
| 11:46 | be a nice quick win for an academy bug perhaps.. | |
| 11:46 | fancy reporting it paxed? | |
| 11:46 | paxed | ashimema: okay. |
| 11:47 | ashimema | thanks dude :) |
| 11:48 | Shaune_UKS joined #koha | |
| 11:49 | paxed | bug 24216 |
| 11:49 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=24216 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , kohastructure.sql uses BOOLEANs |
| 11:51 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 11:51 | vfernandes joined #koha | |
| 11:57 | ashimema | :) |
| 11:58 | we should have a bug squashing day some time soon... | |
| 11:58 | there's plenty of low hanging fruit in the majors list.. stuff that's pretty easy to fix or triage down in status. | |
| 12:02 | khall_ joined #koha | |
| 12:05 | Joubu | bug 24217, really... |
| 12:05 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , use Modern::Perl for modules |
| 12:07 | ashimema | wow |
| 12:07 | surprised that's not done | |
| 12:09 | Joubu | me too! |
| 12:09 | there are some left | |
| 12:09 | ashimema | having said that.. I've always advocted we should specify a year ;) |
| 12:10 | in theory we still force ourselves to support perl 5.10 (which I don't like at all) | |
| 12:10 | so... for that we should limit ourselve to `use Modern::Perl '2010';` | |
| 12:11 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 12:11 | ashimema | I have long advocated we upgrade our minimum perl version to 5.20 (debian 8 standard).. but dcook kicks it back as he wants ancient SUSE support |
| 12:12 | with D8 coming to end of life we could even be so bold as to require 5.24 | |
| 12:15 | Joubu | we are 15 years behind without strict. Start with strict, fix the warnings, then ... whatever you want :) |
| 12:16 | paxed | anyone else annoyed how bugzilla wraps bug change notification text fields to 20 chars? |
| 12:16 | like, who reads emails in fixed-width font? | |
| 12:20 | Joubu | paxed: not sure I understand what you mean. Do you have an example? Did you modify the default values in your preferences? |
| 12:21 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 12:21 | oleonard | Hi all |
| 12:21 | magnuse | there are some mails from bugzilla that tries to display stuff in two columns, to show what was changed. those are pretty hard to read... |
| 12:21 | paxed | Joubu: what magnuse said |
| 12:22 | magnuse | i love dcook, but i think maybe we should outnumber/outvote them in the question of minimum perl version... |
| 12:22 | Joubu | ha, the table with remove/added/what |
| 12:23 | ashimema | I can't find the bug now |
| 12:23 | Joubu | IIRC that's an improvement, before we received 1 mail per line in the table :) |
| 12:23 | ashimema | but I gave up on it |
| 12:23 | paxed | Joubu: i changed it on a bugz instance i maintain to display the text like "summary: new summary (WAS: old summary)" instead of two columns |
| 12:24 | Joubu | paxed: is it an admin preference? |
| 12:25 | or you patched the code? | |
| 12:26 | wynn1212 joined #koha | |
| 12:27 | Shaune_UKS left #koha | |
| 12:27 | wynn1212 | Hi! Can I ask questions about koha problem here? |
| 12:28 | oleonard | This is the place wynn1212 |
| 12:28 | Shaune_UKS joined #koha | |
| 12:28 | ashimema | sorry Joubu.. back at you on bug 24217 |
| 12:28 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Failed QA , use Modern::Perl for modules |
| 12:30 | Joubu | ashimema: there is strict and warnings |
| 12:31 | I can change the title to "enable strict" :) | |
| 12:32 | ashimema | why be inconsistent? |
| 12:32 | why not whilst we're here update all cases? | |
| 12:32 | wynn1212 | I have "Patron relationship problems" in "System information" on koha 19.11.00.000 |
| 12:33 | Joubu | yes, we could. But really here is just the need to have strict "everywhere" |
| 12:33 | ashimema | I've just submitted a patch to make the warning clearer for that wynn1212 |
| 12:34 | Fair enough Joubu | |
| 12:34 | norman joined #koha | |
| 12:35 | wynn1212 | ashimema: So It's safe to ignore? |
| 12:35 | ashimema | ish |
| 12:35 | it won't cause any major issues for you | |
| 12:35 | but is worth being aware of | |
| 12:35 | the error message will be clearer on release of 19.11.01 once my patch is pushed | |
| 12:36 | what it really means is | |
| 12:36 | you have borrowers with a relationship which doesn't match any of the relationships in the system preference | |
| 12:36 | .. | |
| 12:37 | so, if you have mother|father|uncle in your system preference.. but you've somehow managed to add a user with a relationship of 'aunt' to your system.. the warning will show and the list will just contain 'aunt' instead of ARRAY(103fj29dj). | |
| 12:37 | the 'fix' is to then decide whether 'aunt' is valid and add it to the system preference.. | |
| 12:37 | or.. | |
| 12:37 | decide aunt isn't valid and find the user with that relationship and update it to use one of your allowed values. | |
| 12:37 | hope that helps | |
| 12:39 | wynn1212 joined #koha | |
| 12:40 | wynn1212 | Ok. Thanks ashimema! |
| 12:40 | ashimema | :) |
| 12:40 | glad to have been of service | |
| 12:41 | you're on a very shiny new release there. keep in touch if you find bugs. 😉 I'm happy to fix them as fast as we find them | |
| 12:42 | wynn1212 | By now it just show nothing on patron relationship problems. |
| 12:42 | But anyway. Thank's for your help! | |
| 12:46 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 12:47 | magnuse | ashimema++ |
| 12:47 | * magnuse | upgrades his ill demos to 19.11 |
| 12:47 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 12:48 | ashimema | :) |
| 12:49 | paxed | Joubu: re bz, the email format is in one of the template files, not a setting |
| 12:50 | magnuse | the webinstaller says NOTE: misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl should be run to populate the fields introduced in bug 11529. It may take some time for larger databases. |
| 12:50 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11529 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, RESOLVED FIXED, Add subtitle, medium and part fields to biblio table |
| 12:50 | magnuse | if i run this: $ sudo koha-shell -c "perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" koh1 |
| 12:50 | i get this: Can't locate Koha/Script.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Koha::Script module) (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib | |
| 12:50 | on a gitified install | |
| 12:54 | works if i run it like "sudo PERL5LIB=/home/magnus/kohaclone/ KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/sites/instance/koha-conf.xml perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" | |
| 12:56 | ashimema | wierd |
| 13:06 | oleonard | cait: Is Bug 24188 about articles like "the" being ignored in sorting? The screenshots look correctly-sorted to me. |
| 13:06 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=24188 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Sorting AZ does not work |
| 13:11 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 13:24 | Joubu | paxed: you can suggest to rangi if you know the steps to set it up. I do not have access to this server. |
| 13:24 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 13:29 | khall joined #koha | |
| 13:43 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 13:45 | oleonard | Meeting in 15? |
| 13:50 | Joubu | yes |
| 13:53 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 13:55 | oleonard | Hi davidnind |
| 13:56 | davidnind | hi oleonard! |
| 13:56 | wahanui | hi oleopard |
| 13:56 | Joubu | qa_team? |
| 13:56 | wahanui | qa_team is cait khall josef_moravec ashimema Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp |
| 13:56 | oleonard | rmaints? |
| 13:56 | wahanui | it has been said that rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea |
| 13:57 | oleonard | avengers? |
| 13:57 | Okay we're on our own there. | |
| 13:57 | ashimema | lots need updating |
| 13:57 | Joubu | no wahanui, qa_team is cait jajm alex_a khall josef_moravec Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp |
| 13:57 | wahanui | okay, Joubu. |
| 13:57 | paxed | Joubu: okay, i'll do that once i'm in front of a computer |
| 13:57 | ashimema | 3 mins |
| 13:57 | * ashimema | should learn to not get stick into code just before a meeting is meant to start |
| 13:58 | Marie-Luce joined #koha | |
| 13:58 | Joubu | no wahanui, qa_team is cait Joubu marcelr kohaputti josef_moravec tcohen kidclamp khall |
| 13:58 | wahanui | okay, Joubu. |
| 14:00 | * fridolin | sorry I'm buzy |
| 14:00 | ashimema | #startmeeting General IRC meeting 11 December 2019 |
| 14:00 | huginn | Meeting started Wed Dec 11 14:00:38 2019 UTC. The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:00 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 14:00 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:00 | huginn | The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019' |
| 14:00 | ashimema | #topic Introductions |
| 14:00 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:00 | ashimema | #info Please introduce yourselve with an #info to appear in the minutes. |
| 14:01 | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK | |
| 14:01 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA |
| 14:01 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart |
| 14:01 | ashimema | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_11_December_2019 Today's agenda |
| 14:02 | davidnind | #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand |
| 14:02 | ashimema | We'll wait a few minutes for any straggler to arrive :) |
| 14:03 | oleonard | C'mon stragglers |
| 14:05 | ashimema | #topic Announcements |
| 14:05 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:05 | magnuse | #info Magnus Enger. Libriotech, Norway |
| 14:06 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 14:06 | ashimema | #info The 19.11 release happened, all be it a little late. Thanks go out to Mason for stepping in and doing the packaging at the last minute. |
| 14:06 | kidclamp | #info Nick Clemens, BYWater Solutions |
| 14:06 | jzairo joined #koha | |
| 14:06 | magnuse | mtj++ |
| 14:06 | ashimema | #info 19.11, 19.05.x and 18.11.x releases all included security patches this recent release |
| 14:07 | oleonard | ashimema++ |
| 14:07 | mtj++ | |
| 14:07 | ashimema | community++ |
| 14:07 | it's a team effort | |
| 14:07 | as our lone nz representative this afternoon.. any kohacon updates to pass along davidnind ? | |
| 14:08 | * ashimema | is always impressed you make the meetings at these crazy times |
| 14:08 | davidnind | #info Extended closing date for Kohacon20 proposals for talks is 13 December |
| 14:08 | ashimema | :) |
| 14:08 | glad you do.. I'd totally forgotten that one | |
| 14:08 | davidnind | :) |
| 14:09 | ashimema | I think we can move on |
| 14:09 | #topic Update on releases | |
| 14:09 | Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:09 | Shaune-uks joined #koha | |
| 14:09 | ashimema | #topic 20.05 (next release) |
| 14:09 | Topic for #koha is now 20.05 (next release) (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:10 | ashimema | #info 19.11 have been branched and master is now the working version for the next feature release, 20.05 |
| 14:11 | #info As is the pattern, we will be sticking to bugfixes only up until the end of the month, but then I hope to start pushing enhancements early January, focusing on the more experimental one's first to give us a large a section of the release cycle to fix any subsequent bugs before release. | |
| 14:11 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 14:11 | ashimema | #info `fail fast` and `experiment and stabalise` |
| 14:11 | Joubu | which ones do you have in mind? |
| 14:12 | ashimema | I need to go through the list, but I'm open to suggestions ;) |
| 14:12 | oleonard | Bug 15522? |
| 14:12 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , New interface for revamped circulation rules |
| 14:12 | Joubu | you have my suggestions already ;) |
| 14:12 | ashimema | architectural ones are up there, mojolicious too |
| 14:12 | yup, that's on my list oleonard | |
| 14:13 | caroline_catlady | #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inlibro |
| 14:13 | ashimema | I hope to send out a mail over xmas asking people to line up their ducks for January pushes... setting out some bugs I hope to focus on and setting some rough deadlines to see them moving. |
| 14:14 | we don't have any rmaints? present do we :( | |
| 14:14 | davidnind | #info koha-US is planning an online conference (Koha-a-thon) for 24 April, call for talks closes 10 January |
| 14:15 | ashimema | #info Rmaints are tentatively starting to push bugs to their respective branches. |
| 14:15 | davidnind | #info Details for the Koha-a-thon https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pip[…]ember/053991.html |
| 14:15 | Uks joined #koha | |
| 14:15 | kellym joined #koha | |
| 14:15 | ashimema | thanks david. |
| 14:16 | davidnind | #info The dates for the BibLibre Koha Hackfest in Marseille are 23-27 March 2020 |
| 14:16 | Joubu | ha yes, paul_p annonced the hackfest on the list |
| 14:16 | heh, that! | |
| 14:16 | ashimema | hackfest is in the community calendar :) |
| 14:16 | shall I add some of the other events? | |
| 14:16 | Joubu | yup |
| 14:17 | jzairo | some more information for koha-US and the kohathon (they changed the name) to make it easier https://bywatersolutions.com/n[…]all-for-proposals |
| 14:19 | ashimema | added it to the community calendar |
| 14:19 | thanks jzairo for the update | |
| 14:19 | jzairo | :) |
| 14:19 | ashimema | ok.. onto the next topic |
| 14:20 | #topic Any Other Business | |
| 14:20 | Topic for #koha is now Any Other Business (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:20 | ashimema | #topic Proposal to try rocket.chat as an alternative/compliment of IRC |
| 14:20 | Topic for #koha is now Proposal to try rocket.chat as an alternative/compliment of IRC (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:20 | davidnind | #info the 3rd Koha Pakistan International Conference is 16-18 April 2020 http://2020.kohapakistan.org/ |
| 14:20 | (sorry, a bit slow!) | |
| 14:21 | tcohen | hola |
| 14:21 | sorry | |
| 14:21 | ashimema | #info I've discussed with a few people the prospect of adding an alternative to IRC as it seems to be a barrier to entry for some. |
| 14:22 | Joubu | source? :) |
| 14:23 | ashimema | #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. |
| 14:23 | sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to | |
| 14:24 | Joubu | they said that IRC is a barrier to entry? |
| 14:24 | ashimema | I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum |
| 14:24 | oleonard | I agree that IRC is a barrier to entry |
| 14:25 | ashimema_ joined #koha | |
| 14:25 | oleonard | I think rocket.chat looks very interesting |
| 14:25 | ashimema | #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. |
| 14:25 | sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to | |
| 14:25 | I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum | |
| 14:25 | tcohen | Joubu: http://cbs-news.us/2019/12/11/[…]3ZDBlOWQ2X3ouanBn |
| 14:26 | caroline_catlady | tcohen: lol! XD |
| 14:26 | #link https://rocket.chat/ | |
| 14:26 | davidnind | I think Catalyst chose it for use internally - post from 2016 https://www.catalyst.net.nz/bl[…]leeding-edge-chat |
| 14:27 | not sure whether things have changed.. | |
| 14:27 | oleonard | I'll vote to approve any chat solution which will tell me the weather |
| 14:27 | ashimema | we've already lost a number of developers from the irc space to slack.. just saying ;) |
| 14:27 | davidnind | yeah weather! |
| 14:28 | caroline_catlady | would bots still work? |
| 14:28 | Joubu | @wunder Madrid |
| 14:28 | caroline_catlady | I would miss wahanui saying random things |
| 14:28 | huginn | Joubu: Error: Failed to load Wunderground API. Check the logs for more information. |
| 14:28 | ashimema | that's the main reason i want to bridge it to the irc channel, at least in the short term.. so we can continue to use the existing bots |
| 14:28 | Joubu | stupid bots, change bots |
| 14:29 | ashimema | I certainly don't want to cut off existing workflows.. just add an option for less technically adept people |
| 14:29 | Joubu | ashimema: lost developers? who? |
| 14:29 | tcohen has a link for that I guess | |
| 14:29 | :) | |
| 14:30 | ashimema | irc isn't 'that' technical to be honest.. but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations. |
| 14:30 | tcohen | I do |
| 14:30 | ashimema | well.. I often poke people who are missing via slack to get them to come here.. khall is a good example |
| 14:30 | caroline_catlady | gifs ftw ;) |
| 14:30 | Joubu | I am not against the idea, but the reasons are not the good ones in my opinion |
| 14:30 | khall: you are here, right? | |
| 14:31 | ashimema | ok.. what would be a good reason then Joubu |
| 14:31 | oleonard | I think there's no reason at all not to give rocket.chat a try if ashimema is willing to spend some time on it |
| 14:31 | ashimema | I can't see a better reason than to enable more people to join the community. |
| 14:31 | but hey | |
| 14:31 | oleonard | The rocket.chat solution is designed specifically to continue IRC support |
| 14:31 | Joubu | paste/videoconf/code sharing in the same app |
| 14:31 | for instance | |
| 14:32 | but "too complicate" and "we lost developers" sound wrong to me | |
| 14:32 | ashimema | and those are all the things I mean by 'but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations.' |
| 14:32 | rocket.chat support all of those | |
| 14:32 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 14:33 | oleonard | Joubu: What is your argument for not trying rocket.chat? |
| 14:33 | ashimema | moving on.. there seems to be no hard objections so I'll spend a little time getting something setup for a trial. |
| 14:33 | Joubu | oleonard: I never said that. I am not the one who is trying to convince people |
| 14:34 | ashimema: what's the proposal then? | |
| 14:34 | I mean, who, when, where? | |
| 14:34 | oleonard | Joubu: You've offered only arguments against the idea, none in support of the status quo |
| 14:34 | ashimema | #action ashimema is going to investigate setting up a bridged rocket.chat server to allow a more modern form of instance communication for the community. |
| 14:34 | Joubu | I guess we will want to host it somewhere |
| 14:35 | ashimema | to start with I was going to personally host it and see what sort of adoption it gets |
| 14:35 | magnuse | if ptfse can't host it i think libriotech can (on linode) |
| 14:35 | ashimema | I'm suggesting a lightweight trial of it to start with |
| 14:36 | Joubu | oleonard: I did not say I was against the idea, sorry if it is what has been understood |
| 14:37 | not* | |
| 14:37 | ashimema | OK.. I think we can probably move onto my next controvertial topic ;) |
| 14:37 | oh.. actually, the next one isn't controvertial | |
| 14:37 | Joubu | yes it is, you will need to setup a date |
| 14:37 | ashimema | #topic Shall we bring back an internation bug squashing day? |
| 14:37 | Topic for #koha is now Shall we bring back an internation bug squashing day? (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:37 | ashimema | haha.. |
| 14:37 | who used to take on organising them.. I don't remember? | |
| 14:38 | magnuse | i did, back in the day |
| 14:38 | ashimema | but.. I'd like to suggest we get one in the diary and publicise it.. |
| 14:38 | I'm all about trying to get more people looking at bugzilla and helping each other move bugs on at the moment.. such a day seems like a good idea | |
| 14:39 | magnuse | yup, worth a try |
| 14:40 | ashimema | I'm thinking early to mid january for a rough date.. once xmas is someone out of the way but whilst people are hopefully fresh and rested still from the holidays |
| 14:40 | davidnind | https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ug_squashing_days |
| 14:40 | ashimema | s/someone/somewhat |
| 14:40 | davidnind | excellent idea! |
| 14:40 | oleonard | When is Catalyst Academy? Anyone know? |
| 14:40 | * ashimema | was about to ask that next :) |
| 14:41 | davidnind | is in January |
| 14:41 | cait | sorry for missing the meeting... was in another lengthy meeting |
| 14:41 | ashimema | magnuse do you have any recollection as to whether end of week or beggining generally got mroe attendance? |
| 14:41 | we're still going cait | |
| 14:42 | just working out the logistics of organising a bug squashing day | |
| 14:42 | davidnind | 6-17th January, last week is the project week where they work on projects https://www.catalyst.net.nz/open-source-academy |
| 14:42 | ashimema | currently I have 10th Jan in my head as a proposal |
| 14:42 | Joubu | Project week: 14-17 January 2020 |
| 14:42 | https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]/Catalyst_Academy | |
| 14:43 | Uks joined #koha | |
| 14:43 | cait | ah nice |
| 14:43 | i like bug squashing :) | |
| 14:43 | ashimema | aha.. |
| 14:43 | perhaps delay to 17 or 16th perhaps then... | |
| 14:43 | cait | could we have a december bug sqhash? |
| 14:43 | ashimema | that would be a nice way to make sure we pick off at least a few academy bugs |
| 14:43 | cait | as we are focusing on bugs at the moment until beginning of january |
| 14:43 | we can put little christmas hats on the bugs... | |
| 14:44 | ashimema | lol |
| 14:44 | I'm thinking I'll have a triaging session during december ready to get action in a squashing day early Jan | |
| 14:44 | my gut says allot of people are already winding down for xmas and it's a bit late to organise a gbsd this month | |
| 14:45 | magnuse | ashimema: nah, can't say i do |
| 14:45 | ashimema | I may be wrong.. let me know :) |
| 14:45 | magnuse | yeah, i'd say january is better |
| 14:45 | * oleonard | settling in for a long winter's nap |
| 14:45 | magnuse | hehe |
| 14:46 | wizzyrea joined #koha | |
| 14:46 | ashimema | 17th suit people then? |
| 14:46 | tcohen | \o/ |
| 14:46 | magnuse | +1 |
| 14:47 | ashimema | it's a friday to correspond with inLibros' friday community slot (and I think Bywater has a similar Friday for community stuff slot) |
| 14:47 | magnuse | sorry, gotta run |
| 14:47 | davidnind | +1 |
| 14:47 | caroline_catlady | I will make sure our staff is on it |
| 14:47 | * ashimema | tihnks we should volunteer magnuse to organise it as he's running away now.. |
| 14:47 | ashimema | ok.. I'll send out a mail and start the process |
| 14:47 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 14:47 | ashimema | #action ashimema to send out a global bug squashing day announcement email |
| 14:48 | #info Next global bug squashing day to take place 17th January | |
| 14:48 | hehe | |
| 14:48 | davidnind | there is a template for the wiki as well |
| 14:48 | ashimema | brill |
| 14:48 | magnuse | ashimema: i'll do it if noone else wants to have a go |
| 14:48 | cait | ok with january too :) |
| 14:48 | ashimema | moving onto my last controvertial topic.. |
| 14:49 | #topic Are we happy with the existing release process and cycle? | |
| 14:49 | Topic for #koha is now Are we happy with the existing release process and cycle? (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 14:49 | ashimema | Broad question I wanted to raise to get wider audience |
| 14:49 | lots of chatter on WhatsApp and in Twitter land after verious acquisitions having taking place this month and the ever increasing focus on Folio | |
| 14:50 | do we think as a community we are remaining competative or do we need to make any changes to try and continue to be | |
| 14:50 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 14:50 | oleonard | I'm concerned that the `fail fast, experiment and stabilize` process won't have time enough for the stabilize step if we speed things up |
| 14:50 | ashimema | I have my own concerns which I'm sure people have heard before |
| 14:51 | well.. I'm not really envisaging much change this cycle really.. it's more of a wider question and setting up idea's and plans for subsquent cycles | |
| 14:51 | georgew joined #koha | |
| 14:52 | ashimema | Ubuntu for example has a flip/flop cycle which spans 12 months.. their two releases a year have an experimental 6 months followed by a stabalisation 6 months |
| 14:52 | caroline_catlady | I know here (and I think in most support companies?) we only upgrade every 2 versions (for us it's every .05) |
| 14:53 | ashimema | mm.. so I think we still need some sort of long term support idea |
| 14:53 | cait | we are on the .11 |
| 14:53 | talljoy | we upgrade every release on the point .06 usually |
| 14:53 | ashimema | but do we need to support 3 versions simultaneosly? |
| 14:53 | cait | or at least at the moment target those |
| 14:54 | ashimema | it's allot to ask to find 3 rmaints every 6 months |
| 14:54 | cait | i think I could imagine an LTS version |
| 14:54 | but having one version for 1.5 years is good | |
| 14:54 | ashimema | and.. are the .05/.06 releases actually stable if the majority of users aren't looking at a release until that point.. |
| 14:54 | i.e are we not just shifting the bugs down | |
| 14:55 | wizzyrea | #info liz rea |
| 14:56 | * ashimema | isn't being deliberately obtuse.. I just want to get opinions |
| 14:56 | TGoat joined #koha | |
| 14:56 | davidnind | have some sort of survey - get the views of support providers, self-hosters, etc |
| 14:56 | talljoy | #info Joy Nelson |
| 14:56 | caroline_catlady | I'm just wondering what would be the repercussions of changing the cuycle |
| 14:56 | ashimema | I've worked in a few different cycles over the years and they all have their own benefits and problems |
| 14:56 | Faadil joined #koha | |
| 14:56 | talljoy | most bugs are fixed in .03 and .04 of every release. but i'm not sure when they are actually found to be included in those stable point releases |
| 14:57 | oleonard | davidnind++ |
| 14:57 | * talljoy | has graphs |
| 14:57 | davidnind | tricky bit might be the actual questions to ask |
| 14:57 | cait | talljoy: can you share? it sounds interesting |
| 14:57 | andrew joined #koha | |
| 14:57 | ashimema | be interested in seeing those graphs talljoy |
| 14:57 | cait | I have a feeling that our latest 2 have been a bit ... less stable |
| 14:57 | talljoy | i can clean up a bit and send on the list. yes! |
| 14:57 | ashimema | yeah.. hense the open floor here.. so I have some help coming up with questions ;) |
| 14:57 | talljoy | i wanted to dig a big deeper if i can and may need khall to help with the pulling data from bz |
| 14:58 | cait | talljoy++ thx! |
| 14:58 | ashimema | I have stats for numbers of bugs fixed at various points in cycles.. the general trend I've spotted is that bugs are getting reported later |
| 14:58 | dani joined #koha | |
| 14:58 | cait | we have some early adopters |
| 14:58 | talljoy | do you have data on who is reporting those bugs ashimema ? |
| 14:58 | ashimema | also.. the gap between being reported and being fixed varies allot |
| 14:58 | cait | but tbh we sit it out pretty long too - preparation takes a while as well, as we have to write up Gemran resoruces etc. too |
| 14:59 | ashimema | not in a particularly meaningful format yet no.. |
| 14:59 | would be happy to collaborate on picking out some stats.. | |
| 14:59 | talljoy | we have played with the idea of getting 'really early' adopters to help flush bugs. i.e. roll a 20.01 and get bugs fixed in the 20.05 |
| 14:59 | that's just us internally 'spit-balling' | |
| 14:59 | ashimema | we certainly have two types of customer here.. those who want their new feature asap.. |
| 14:59 | talljoy | <and paid for it too> |
| 14:59 | ashimema | and those who want stability over functionality and want to wait 2 years |
| 15:00 | cait | yeah, i think the might be the motivation to go on a new verson - there are features needed/wanted |
| 15:00 | I think there might be benefits of having a regular LTS, but also needs a maintainer | |
| 15:00 | talljoy: are you doing 1 or 2 updates a year? | |
| 15:00 | talljoy | 2 |
| 15:01 | cait | :) |
| 15:01 | talljoy | our goal is to make upgrades a 'non issue' for our libraries |
| 15:01 | not always successful, but we try! | |
| 15:01 | ashimema | so.. the best proposal I've spitballed here is to have two tracks.. a LTS which gets a feature update once every 18 months or something like that.. and is maintained with bugfixes only throughout it's life |
| 15:01 | dani joined #koha | |
| 15:01 | ashimema | and a continious integration track which is release monthly and contains bugfixes and new feature as soon as they're ready |
| 15:01 | cait | hm |
| 15:01 | talljoy | CI for the win! |
| 15:02 | cait | wonder if there is some middle gruond to be found |
| 15:02 | ashimema | CI + CD |
| 15:02 | cait | between those 2 |
| 15:02 | ashimema | CD is what all the 'big boys' are moving too.. I fear if we don't offer it we will loose out. |
| 15:02 | talljoy | stay a couple of tracks back but a couple ahead of LTS? |
| 15:02 | cait | maybe longer support but a big one every year instead of 18 months |
| 15:03 | ashimema | CI = Continious Integration (we do this with Jenkins).. CD = Continious Deployment (monthly releases would be close to this) |
| 15:03 | talljoy | yearly does make a bit more sense from a library's perspective. "we upgrade every year in August" for example |
| 15:03 | cait | i think biblibre and us target once a year for update, so that would be nice to maintain, monthly with translations and everything woudl be too much |
| 15:03 | talljoy | We are moving towards CD as much as we can. |
| 15:04 | that's what the U.S. market is about now. | |
| 15:04 | ashimema | how do you do CD if you only upgrade once a year? |
| 15:04 | talljoy | we do 2x a year with monthly point release upgrades |
| 15:05 | we are upgrading continually, but it is a logistical problem for us. | |
| 15:05 | eythian | CD is not monthly, CD is more like every commit gets deployed |
| 15:05 | talljoy | right |
| 15:05 | ashimema | yeah, it isn't easy |
| 15:05 | talljoy | that's more what we're aiming for. |
| 15:05 | lukeG joined #koha | |
| 15:05 | cait | bywater is the biggest player right now - I think it makes sense, but for the smaller ones might be harder to keep that pace |
| 15:05 | talljoy | i mean, aim high, right? |
| 15:05 | ashimema | indeed.. CD is exactly what eythian said.. |
| 15:05 | cait | especially if you don't have in-house devs for hotfixing |
| 15:05 | ashimema | I don't think we're ready for that yet.. but I'd love to see it happen |
| 15:05 | talljoy | true. |
| 15:05 | cait | it woudl never work for translations |
| 15:05 | caroline_catlady | + docs and translations |
| 15:06 | cait | yep |
| 15:06 | talljoy | cait i like your yearly LTS idea instead of 18 months |
| 15:06 | eythian | (having monthly/nightly use-at-your-own-risk auto snapshot releases could be an easy approach too.) |
| 15:06 | ashimema | but I don think monthly release could be possible |
| 15:06 | we already do such a scheme for rmaint | |
| 15:06 | well.. we do have the nightly build bot which builds package nightly | |
| 15:06 | so you 'can' do watch that | |
| 15:07 | Joubu | I don't think our codebase is robust enough to provide a (relatively) master-based stable release every month |
| 15:07 | Or I did not get what you are talking about | |
| 15:07 | talljoy | we are not yet brave enough to put our libraries on master. so the reality is that we are expecting a modified CI/CD pipeline |
| 15:07 | ashimema | it may not be.. but shouldn't we be asking the question of "why isn't it" ;) |
| 15:07 | paul_p_ joined #koha | |
| 15:07 | talljoy | for us internally. We will adapt to what the community does. This is just input about what is going on in our heads |
| 15:08 | ashimema | I believe if we set out a goal to get there, we could improve out practice over a few cycle to go from 6 monthly feature releases down to 3 monthly, then monthly perhaps |
| 15:09 | caroline_catlady | we just went through the upgrades with our clients and while it was not nightmarish, there were still bugs in 19.05.04 |
| 15:09 | ashimema | it's just about getting better at spotting and fixing bugs quicker |
| 15:09 | talljoy | yes. |
| 15:09 | kidclamp | yeah, smaller bites, less bugs, found faster |
| 15:09 | caroline_catlady | and the preparation is long too, I can't imagine doing this more often |
| 15:09 | talljoy | that is what our educators say also! |
| 15:09 | ashimema | I have an issue with code going in, then often not getting used in real life for nearly 18 months and then trying to remember what I was doing all that time ago to fix a bug in it is really hard |
| 15:09 | kidclamp | we have been discussing that with trainers to figure out a different model |
| 15:10 | oleonard | That's a good point ashimema |
| 15:10 | kellym | yes @caroline_catlady, it would get a bit dicey! |
| 15:10 | talljoy | ashimema, we also have that issue. along with devs that folks pay for that they don't see for 6-12 months |
| 15:10 | ashimema | totally.. I'm a dev.... we deffo need to get opinions from users, trainers and inf people |
| 15:10 | yup | |
| 15:11 | kellym | but good question, how far in advance would release notes come prior to doing the upgrade ? |
| 15:11 | kidclamp | for devs too I like the idea of not having a 6 month window of missing getting a dev in |
| 15:11 | ashimema | well.. it sounds like we certianly have the apetite to consider alternatives at least |
| 15:11 | TGoat | don't forget the RM's to whom this will all fall on |
| 15:11 | ashimema | we just need to work out what those are |
| 15:11 | calire left #koha | |
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| 15:12 | ashimema | it doesn't really all fall on the RM.. |
| 15:12 | we still have a SO/QA process.. and releaseing is pretty streamlined already in reality | |
| 15:12 | davidnind | kellym: has ideas about release notes vs what's new |
| 15:12 | ashimema | we could do better on the packaging front I think |
| 15:12 | translation and documentation need thought though.. | |
| 15:13 | caroline_catlady | release notes, what's new and what you have to change |
| 15:13 | ashimema | but then.. perhaps they would also benefit from a smaller amount to do each month rather than a mamoth task once every 6 months |
| 15:13 | caroline_catlady | like the fines reports for 19.05 |
| 15:13 | davidnind | kellym: release notes are continuous https://gitlab.com/koha-commun[…]oha-release-notes |
| 15:14 | ashimema | indeed kellym |
| 15:15 | cait | please keep in mind that not all people are using Koha in English |
| 15:15 | we need to put more work in | |
| 15:15 | caroline_catlady | database changes are all fine and good, but they f up a bunch of stuff when we upgrade (sorry for the big words I just spent a whole day redoing circ rules for 20+ clients) |
| 15:15 | kellym | yes, so would it be beneficial to produce a what’s new outside of a release notes doc? showing only features? |
| 15:15 | cait | we also have things specific to our environment that need to be tested... we need an option for slower updates too |
| 15:15 | talljoy | good point cait. bag mentioned this in our meeting yesterday as an important consideration |
| 15:15 | cait | we need to make our own documentation etc. it's a big task for smaller teams |
| 15:15 | and we don#t have educators... we are all in one people | |
| 15:15 | TGoat | just thinking.. assuming that our developer numbers stay strong and we have a willing pool of RM's |
| 15:16 | wizzyrea | I really think a feature flagging function in Koha would be great |
| 15:16 | ashimema | experienced dev numbers aren't all that strong at the moment.. or rather volunteers to do the rmaint roles aren't at least |
| 15:16 | caroline_catlady | I agree cait we are two who do tests and docs here and it's a lot |
| 15:16 | ashimema | that's part of what braught me to this set of questions |
| 15:16 | davidnind | kellym: would like to do that - what's new summary, details in documentation portal/manual |
| 15:17 | cait | in theory we are 4... but we also do migrations /project work all the time |
| 15:17 | * wizzyrea | whispers "feature flagging in the interface..." |
| 15:17 | caroline_catlady | davidnind++ |
| 15:17 | kidclamp | so I think this is good discussion, but maybe we need to think a bit and come back with a clearer idea of the issue we are solving |
| 15:17 | ashimema | I've been slowly working on a changelog type approach davidnind kellym |
| 15:17 | wizzyrea | like slaaack does with the little present |
| 15:17 | ashimema | our release notes aren't all that great |
| 15:17 | kidclamp | like collect thoughts on wiki and in the mailing list? |
| 15:17 | ashimema | feature flagging is good |
| 15:17 | talljoy | it does feel like we need a bit more clarification on the needs of community/libraries/dev before deciding on what some specifics are |
| 15:18 | cait | we pick and translate from them, they are mostly useful for people like us i guess |
| 15:18 | we pick what our libraries use | |
| 15:18 | not every library loves CD... it could also be a selling poit to offer different clearly defined routs | |
| 15:18 | ashimema | How about I try to summarise what we've said today on a wiki page and invite comment via the lists |
| 15:18 | cait | not force people to do updates often |
| 15:18 | or not get bugs fixed/security fixes | |
| 15:19 | ashimema | this has served it's purpose.. it's got people thinking and talking about it :) |
| 15:19 | kellym | yes @davidnind highlight and direct to more information. I love @wizzyrea idea- even an added note on the news tools could be useful. |
| 15:19 | davidnind | balance between a cloud like service controlled by one vendor with continuous deployment vs multiple providers, supported versions and stability for clients/libraries |
| 15:19 | georgew | I was late to the meeting and then I've had to jump in and out while dealing with some other issues, but I think libraries would definitely want some input on these release issues |
| 15:19 | wizzyrea | ubuntu does this well, with LTS and "I like punishment" releases |
| 15:19 | cait | kellym: translation issues :( |
| 15:19 | kellym | ah yes! We did talk about that earlier! @cait |
| 15:20 | cait | maybe solvable, but to keep in mind |
| 15:20 | ashimema | wizzyrea.. it's the Ubuntu LTS + Punishment model I'm really trying to suggest ;) |
| 15:20 | georgew | koha-US is having a meeting today and I'll bring this issue up and see if I can get some library peopel to read the minutes so they know what's going on |
| 15:20 | talljoy | ashimema i would like a synopsis and some suggested steps forward. |
| 15:20 | wizzyrea | I figured :) |
| 15:20 | ashimema | ok |
| 15:21 | #action ashimema will summarise the release cycle discussion on a wiki page and invite people to contribute/comment via as many comms methods as he can muster. | |
| 15:22 | talljoy | ashimema++ |
| 15:22 | kellym | @ashimema++ |
| 15:22 | huginn | kellym: downloading the Perl source |
| 15:22 | ashimema | thanks everyone.. a really good discussion I feel |
| 15:22 | right.. last topic then | |
| 15:22 | #topic Time of next meeting | |
| 15:22 | Topic for #koha is now Time of next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 11 December 2019) | |
| 15:23 | ashimema | the later time but same date next month? |
| 15:23 | does the 8th work for people? | |
| 15:23 | davidnind | +1 |
| 15:23 | talljoy | yes |
| 15:23 | +1 | |
| 15:23 | oleonard | +1 |
| 15:24 | caroline_catlady | ok |
| 15:24 | cait | +1 |
| 15:24 | ashimema | davidnind.. remind me what time works well for NZ |
| 15:25 | davidnind | daytime..:) |
| 15:25 | ashimema | 20:00 UTC? |
| 15:25 | that's 09::00 Wellington and 15:00 New York | |
| 15:26 | * ashimema | isn't sure why he picked new york.. america spans too many time zones ;) |
| 15:26 | davidnind | 20:00 (9 am is good), but not sure how ot suits others |
| 15:26 | caroline_catlady | 20 UTC is good for east coast |
| 15:26 | oleonard | '15:00 Athens, OH' is how most Americans refer to it I think |
| 15:27 | ashimema | #info Next meeting: 8 January 2020, 20 UTC |
| 15:27 | brill.. we have a winner :) | |
| 15:27 | #endmeeting | |
| 15:27 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org | |
| 15:27 | huginn | Meeting ended Wed Dec 11 15:27:17 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:27 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-12-11-14.00.html | |
| 15:27 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-12-11-14.00.txt | |
| 15:27 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]11-14.00.log.html | |
| 15:27 | ashimema | thanks everyone, good meeting, lots discussed |
| 15:27 | caroline_catlady | ashimema++ for bringin up controversial topics :) |
| 15:27 | davidnind | ashimema++ |
| 15:28 | cait | ashimema++ |
| 15:29 | ashimema | hehe.. always a pleasure |
| 15:29 | hopefully people know by now I generally just want opinions and to see the community flourish.. so I get away with asking hard questions :) | |
| 15:29 | oleonard | Okay let's be honest: Someone shook the Slack tree to get all the ByWater folks to fall out, right? |
| 15:30 | ashimema | they might have done ;) |
| 15:35 | * kidclamp | narrows eyes at oleonard |
| 15:36 | oleonard | kidclamp: Just bolstering ashimema's argument for a sexier chat system :D |
| 15:38 | ashimema | hehe |
| 15:39 | * eythian | would like to discourage forcing people to use a proprietary system like slack in order to work on a free software project. |
| 15:39 | * talljoy | whistles innocently |
| 15:40 | caroline_catlady | then make the open options sexier |
| 15:40 | ashimema | rocket chat is allot sexier than irc ;) |
| 15:40 | and not far behind slack in my opinion | |
| 15:40 | eythian | IRC is as nice as you want it to be. |
| 15:40 | ashimema | and.. it federates |
| 15:40 | caroline_catlady | It looks like it, but I've never used it |
| 15:41 | I've yet to find a sexy irc client | |
| 15:41 | ashimema | so each of the support companies could host their own for internal chat and still connect to each other and the community via the same platform and client. |
| 15:41 | eythian | I have a nice GUI client that I can be connected from my phone, multiple computers, etc all at once and catches messages when I'm away, shows previews of URLs on hover, etc etc. |
| 15:41 | davidnind | it's nice - have used occassioanly |
| 15:42 | eythian | https://imgur.com/a/uKFKe11 looks like this |
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| 15:43 | caroline_catlady | that's what mine looks like too, but I don't think that's pretty or easy to read |
| 15:43 | oleonard | eythian: Everyone who's never used IRC just got a chill down their spine from that screenshot |
| 15:43 | eythian | then you change the font if you want to |
| 15:43 | kidclamp | there are nice irc clients, but having one app/interface and not asking people to choose or customise can make it easier to get started |
| 15:44 | ashimema | kidclamp++ |
| 15:44 | totally | |
| 15:44 | * kidclamp | does like Quassel |
| 15:44 | eythian | oleonard: well if it's developer chat, how do they deal with code :) |
| 15:44 | kidclamp | but it's not just meant to be developer chat |
| 15:44 | ashimema | the target audience isn't us.. it's the people who aren't here ;) |
| 15:44 | eythian | fair |
| 15:44 | * eythian | doesn't have much of a say here, just opinions, btw :) |
| 15:44 | ashimema | but also we win too in my opinion.. for things like code snippets etc. |
| 15:45 | * ashimema | likes opinions :) |
| 15:45 | eythian | and one strong opinion is that proprietary is bad for free software and will alienate many people. But there are options that aren't that too. |
| 15:46 | and for those who it doesn't alienate, perhaps they should reconsider ;) | |
| 15:46 | davidnind | ashimema:Dave Lane has some useful blog posts https://tech.oeru.org/taxonomy/term/18 |
| 15:46 | Why Slack is better, and why open communities shouldn't use it https://davelane.nz/why-slack-[…]s-shouldnt-use-it | |
| 15:47 | eythian | davidnind: good link, thanks |
| 15:48 | oleonard | I've added a big follow-up on Bug 22880 and I think it's pretty robust now. Please test! I'd love to get all similar system preferences migrated in the next release if possible |
| 15:48 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block |
| 15:49 | eythian | see also https://xkcd.com/1782/ |
| 15:50 | caroline_catlady | lol! |
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| 16:07 | tcohen | smuxi++ |
| 16:08 | eythian: LOL screen+irssi to tmux+weechat | |
| 16:08 | hahaha | |
| 16:11 | eythian | holy crap, it's gitter.im. I had always read it as glitter.im. |
| 16:11 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 16:13 | oleonard | What we need is a chat system with *more* glitter. |
| 16:13 | caroline_catlady | glitter++ |
| 16:19 | reiveune | bye |
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| 17:42 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #3: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D8/3/ |
| 17:42 | oleonard_ joined #koha | |
| 17:45 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D9/4/ |
| 17:47 | cait joined #koha | |
| 17:48 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_U18/4/ |
| 17:53 | cait | talljoy++ :) |
| 17:53 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 17:56 | talljoy | pushing them slowly cait. trying to not screw it up. :D |
| 18:00 | ashimema | talljoy++ |
| 18:00 | talljoy | ashimema - i'm not sure what to do with the 'still unstable' message on jenkins |
| 18:00 | ashimema | Lol.. my phone really wanted to correct that to Tallboy |
| 18:00 | Haha | |
| 18:00 | talljoy | very much out of my wheelhouse! |
| 18:01 | ashimema | I'll take a look tonight/tomorrow morning and give you a hand.. |
| 18:01 | Joubu | talljoy: bug 24199 will fix the shib test |
| 18:01 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=24199 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , t/Auth_with_shibboleth.t is failing randomly |
| 18:02 | Joubu | no idea what's happenning with the api ones |
| 18:02 | ashimema | Basically, the process is to look at Jenkins and see which tests it's unhappy about and either fix then, ask someone nice to fix them.. or in a mean case threaten to revert something if they're not fixed.. |
| 18:02 | It never really comes to that though.. lots of nice people will help fix them if you can't I find | |
| 18:03 | tcohen | api tests failing |
| 18:03 | ? | |
| 18:03 | vfernandes | which ElasticSearch version we should use with 19.11? |
| 18:03 | ashimema | Haha.. Joubu is one of those aforementioned nice people |
| 18:03 | tcohen | 5.x, or 6 with bugs |
| 18:03 | ashimema | Either.. both should work |
| 18:03 | tcohen | ashimema: he wouldn't touch api tests |
| 18:04 | Joubu | tcohen: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Build/consoleFull on U18 only it seems |
| 18:04 | ashimema | You and I count as nice people there tcohen |
| 18:04 | tcohen | hahaha |
| 18:04 | ashimema | I just haven't managed to find a moment to look yet myself |
| 18:05 | tcohen | Joubu: yes, thanks. Will try to figure how to test is without breaking my dev env which is really tweaked now |
| 18:05 | Joubu | I don't have U18 either right now. I planned to take a look today but forgot |
| 18:06 | tcohen | I will use a different name and test |
| 18:07 | KOHA_IMAGE=master-bionic docker-compose -p koha_bionic up | |
| 18:07 | Joubu | I have disk space issues... cannot pull another image... |
| 18:08 | tcohen | docker system prune -a |
| 18:08 | will probably surprise you hehe | |
| 18:09 | Joubu | what I am doing, but cannot shut it down for now |
| 18:10 | tcohen | talljoy: I'm looking at the API failures on Ubuntu 18 |
| 18:12 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 18:18 | talljoy | thanks tcohen |
| 18:52 | kathryn joined #koha | |
| 18:56 | oleonard | Hi kathryn |
| 19:12 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 19:28 | oleonard | See y'all later. Test Bug 22880! |
| 19:28 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block |
| 19:33 | davidnind left #koha | |
| 19:44 | caroline_catlady | anyone know why I would get the following message when trying to get a mana token? "An error occurred, mana server returned: URL must be absolute" |
| 19:44 | cait | did you include http:// etc in your url for mana? |
| 19:44 | it souns like it thinks it has a relative url | |
| 19:45 | caroline_catlady | I don't know, I just filled in the name and email fields |
| 19:45 | where do I set up the url? | |
| 19:45 | cait | check your mana prefs maybe? |
| 19:45 | hmm | |
| 19:46 | i tihnk the mana pref is set in the koha-conf | |
| 19:46 | caroline_catlady | I searched for mana in koha-conf and I didn't find anythng |
| 19:46 | cait | there should be... let me see |
| 19:47 | caroline_catlady | mayne I have to add it manually? |
| 19:47 | cait | i have a mana_config at the bottom |
| 19:47 | <mana_config>https://mana.koha-community.org</mana_config> | |
| 19:48 | caroline_catlady | before </config>? |
| 19:48 | cait | inside yep |
| 19:48 | so before | |
| 19:48 | caroline_catlady | ok I will try that |
| 19:49 | nope, still getting the same error | |
| 19:50 | ah the one on my test environment is mana-kb.koha... | |
| 19:50 | will try that | |
| 19:50 | cait | hm maybe |
| 19:50 | i had mana-test | |
| 19:50 | but assumed mana would be the real one | |
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| 19:52 | caroline_catlady | -_- still not working... |
| 19:53 | cait | did you do a reastart_all? |
| 19:53 | caroline_catlady | no? |
| 19:53 | wahanui | no is that a thing? I was just thinking about how I like all kinds of chips and now I find out that there is a licorice flavor! |
| 19:53 | caroline_catlady | licorice chips! |
| 19:53 | cait | i think a change to koha-conf might not take effect without apache restart |
| 19:53 | caroline_catlady | ah! |
| 19:53 | cait | caroline_catlady: andreas sent us some... they were... interesting |
| 19:54 | caroline_catlady | yeah, I'm not a fan of licorice so I don't think I would even try |
| 19:54 | not a fan of fennel either... tastes like licorice | |
| 19:56 | cait | true, i like both :) and ouzo |
| 19:58 | caroline_catlady | ah it worked! |
| 19:59 | Thank you! | |
| 19:59 | cait++ | |
| 19:59 | cait | great :) |
| 20:03 | caroline_catlady | for future reference, the url is https://mana-kb.koha-community.org |
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| 21:14 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D9/5/ |
| 21:16 | Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #4: UNSTABLE in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]/Koha_19.11_D8/4/ | |
| 21:26 | Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]Koha_19.11_U18/5/ | |
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