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|---|---|---|
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| 06:36 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:36 | wahanui | what's up, reiveune |
| 06:45 | calire | morning |
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| 07:30 | cait | good morning #koha |
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| 08:24 | ashimema | mornin' |
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| 13:58 | ashimema | next meeting? |
| 13:58 | wahanui | next meeting is https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]Next_IRC_meetings |
| 14:01 | thd joined #koha | |
| 14:01 | ashimema | #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019 |
| 14:01 | huginn` | Meeting started Wed Jul 10 14:01:38 2019 UTC. The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 14:01 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:01 | huginn` | The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_july_2019' |
| 14:01 | ashimema | #chair cait |
| 14:01 | huginn` | Current chairs: ashimema cait |
| 14:01 | ashimema | #topic Introductions |
| 14:01 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:02 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 14:02 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe |
| 14:03 | fridolin | #info Fridolin Somers, Biblibre France |
| 14:03 | ashimema | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_10_July_2019 Agenda |
| 14:04 | I'm sure cait was here a minute ago | |
| 14:05 | cait | oh yes |
| 14:05 | ashimema | coudl be a short one if that's all we've got |
| 14:05 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 14:06 | * cait | pings random people |
| 14:06 | cait | rmaints? |
| 14:06 | wahanui | rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea |
| 14:06 | fridolin | all is good |
| 14:06 | cait | khall bag tcohen |
| 14:06 | fridolin | sorry I'm a bit late on backport |
| 14:06 | cait | Joubu |
| 14:06 | ashimema | #topic Announcements |
| 14:06 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:07 | cait | nothing fromme |
| 14:07 | fridolin | I made a new plugin https://github.com/biblibre/ko[…]heme-intranet-lsd |
| 14:07 | ashimema | #info The first set of maintanence releases have gone out since the last meeting.. Thanks to the RMaints :) |
| 14:07 | * tcohen | is heading downtown, sorry |
| 14:08 | calire left #koha | |
| 14:08 | ashimema | lol |
| 14:08 | moving on then | |
| 14:08 | #topic Update from the Release manager | |
| 14:08 | Topic for #koha is now Update from the Release manager (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:09 | ashimema | Things are ticking along... I'm currently blocked by failing tests on Jenkins but have tcohen on the case (as I've reached a dead end with my own efforts) |
| 14:09 | teamwork++ | |
| 14:10 | that's pretty much it from me.. | |
| 14:10 | #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers | |
| 14:10 | Topic for #koha is now Updates from the Release Maintainers (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:11 | ashimema | rmaints? |
| 14:11 | wahanui | rmaints is, like, fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea |
| 14:11 | * ashimema | grr, forgot to info my update |
| 14:11 | cait | heh |
| 14:11 | wizzyrea | #info liz rea |
| 14:12 | things are going along from my point of view | |
| 14:12 | ashimema | any updates fridolin |
| 14:12 | or wizzyrea | |
| 14:12 | wahanui | i heard wizzyrea was very glad the git repo is reliably working todya |
| 14:13 | fridolin | nothing special in 19.05.x |
| 14:13 | wizzyrea | nothing special in 18.05.x |
| 14:13 | fridolin | sorry i'm a bit late on pushing |
| 14:13 | ashimema | no worries :) |
| 14:13 | ok.. moving onto QA then | |
| 14:13 | cait | #info maintenance releases are moving along nicely |
| 14:13 | ashimema | #topic Updates from the QA team |
| 14:13 | Topic for #koha is now Updates from the QA team (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:13 | cait | we are a bit low on QA time right now is my general feeling |
| 14:14 | #info Number of bad bugs on the dashboard are too high - 3 blockers, 4 criticals, 22 majors | |
| 14:14 | wizzyrea | ohh that's gross |
| 14:14 | * wizzyrea | makes a note |
| 14:14 | cait | #info Please focus on bugs for now if time is low - we need to make sure they are taken care of |
| 14:15 | it's not only QA there, missing patches, SO.... a mix | |
| 14:15 | so really everyone can help there ;) | |
| 14:15 | * ashimema | would be interested to see a graph of QA activity over a few cycles.. it would be interesting to see if there's a patturn to the ebbs adn flows |
| 14:15 | wizzyrea | :D |
| 14:15 | cait | I think it feels like the European summer 'hole' right now |
| 14:15 | probably a German term | |
| 14:15 | wizzyrea | yeah it's holiday time |
| 14:16 | cait | things just slow down a lot - but it's a little unnerving for those who are still here :) |
| 14:16 | ashimema | admitedly only three of those are in the QA queue right now.. |
| 14:16 | cait | I've also inlcuded some new contributors in my weekly QA email, there are quite a few in NSO |
| 14:16 | please be nice | |
| 14:16 | #info Be nice to people starting out - new contributors :) | |
| 14:16 | ashimema | there's a few in NSO and more in need of some code submitting |
| 14:17 | cait | ashimema: that's correct - it's really an all-community-task |
| 14:17 | wizzyrea: i'd be happy if you could start with this one - bug 23293 | |
| 14:17 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=23293 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , OPACFineNoRenewals compares against 'balance' not 'outstanding' |
| 14:17 | cait | argh |
| 14:17 | bug 23283 | |
| 14:17 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=23283 critical, P5 - low, ---, lucas, Needs Signoff , cannot view/edit additional attributes in 18.11.x |
| 14:18 | ashimema | I'll try to take on one or two of the 'Major' ones still without code |
| 14:18 | wizzyrea | ah right |
| 14:18 | which solution there do we like better | |
| 14:18 | the 2nd? | |
| 14:18 | wahanui | the 2nd is the staff interface |
| 14:19 | cait | i think it's only one patch now |
| 14:19 | it seems to include the change mark made - but please double check | |
| 14:20 | wizzyrea | oh right |
| 14:20 | yep ok | |
| 14:20 | cait | nothing more from me |
| 14:20 | hit me up if you have a spare moment and need inspiration :) | |
| 14:21 | dpk__ joined #koha | |
| 14:21 | ashimema | okies, moving on then |
| 14:21 | #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) | |
| 14:21 | Topic for #koha is now General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:21 | ashimema | we have a few to go through |
| 14:21 | do we have alex_a around? | |
| 14:22 | corilynn | I haven't seen him since last week, ashimema |
| 14:22 | wizzyrea | holidayyyyys |
| 14:22 | ashimema | #topic Mana-KB Workflows |
| 14:22 | Topic for #koha is now Mana-KB Workflows (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:22 | ashimema | #info Looking for some guidance on how to progress ManaKB serverside bugs |
| 14:22 | perhaps best to postpone that one again then.. | |
| 14:23 | fridolin | alex is on holidays |
| 14:23 | for 3 weeks | |
| 14:23 | ashimema | it's unclear how we want to manage that project as a community yet.. there's no clear path through SO/QA and Push |
| 14:23 | but there is a record of issues in Bugzilla.. so we need to define how we want to operate there. | |
| 14:23 | anywho.. lets move on whilst the relevant parties aren't here | |
| 14:24 | cait | can we add a note? |
| 14:24 | https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]te_Administration is missing infromation for Hea and Mana | |
| 14:24 | ashimema | #info Postponed discussion as the key parties are not in attendance |
| 14:24 | cait | I'd really like to have some information on the provider and who to talk |
| 14:25 | #info Note for later: Update/complate https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]te_Administration for Mana and Hea | |
| 14:25 | complete... | |
| 14:25 | ashimema | thanks |
| 14:25 | #topic Road to Mojolicious | |
| 14:25 | Topic for #koha is now Road to Mojolicious (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:26 | lukeG joined #koha | |
| 14:26 | ashimema | #info I'll be starting to look at bug 23161 in the next couple of weeks with a view to persuing pushing it early next month |
| 14:26 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=23161 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , We need to document the release process for this project? |
| 14:26 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 14:26 | ashimema | #info Correction, that was meant to be bug 20582 |
| 14:26 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=20582 enhancement, P5 - low, Future, julian.maurice, Signed Off , Turn Koha into a Mojolicious application |
| 14:27 | cait | not only me today :) |
| 14:27 | ashimema | I think there's a general concensus that it's worth investigating.. I want to get a few more key parties involved and get their opinions, excitment and fears |
| 14:28 | unless anyone has anything else they specifically want to say on that one, it was more of an anouncement than a discussion.. please get involved :) | |
| 14:28 | moving on | |
| 14:29 | #topic Git maintanence | |
| 14:29 | Topic for #koha is now Git maintanence (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:29 | ashimema | ack, no Joubu.. he was meant to be leading the charge on this one. |
| 14:29 | #info The gitlab mirror is currently failing to mirror correctly as our main repository is so large. | |
| 14:29 | cait | oh |
| 14:29 | ashimema | #info This really just highlights that the repository is still growing at an alarming rate and as such many of our tools are starting to struggle. |
| 14:30 | rangi has already proposed we move the translations into their own repository | |
| 14:30 | thd | It may also highlight potential problems with Gitlab overhead. |
| 14:30 | ashimema | and we have other suggestions |
| 14:31 | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ing_and_Shrinking Git maintanence proposals | |
| 14:32 | cait | we just need to make sure we have a clear workflow |
| 14:32 | ashimema | I would say we do need to reduce our core repo's footprint at some point.. we've been discussing it for years for all sorts of reasons... I think it's time we took some decisive action |
| 14:32 | cait | for how to ship translations |
| 14:32 | ashimema | indeed cait |
| 14:32 | thd | Moving translations and anything non-destructive to potentially important code history should be preferred. |
| 14:32 | cait | woudl splitting out mean we don't include them anymore in packages etc? |
| 14:32 | ashimema | but also need a consensus on how far we go with the cleanup.. |
| 14:33 | fridolin | we should build anguage packages like firefox does |
| 14:33 | ashimema | we have a few options outlined on that page.. please take a look and contribute to the discussions. |
| 14:33 | cait | i am just worried because we are so log on people now - we can't leave this half-finished |
| 14:33 | i think the history on the po files is not relevant | |
| 14:33 | as it's all automated and not 'personal' | |
| 14:34 | ashimema | right now cait, I believe the idea is to use git submodules (so the build process would remain as is but the maints would need to pull the submodule repo rather than merge the latest translations commit) |
| 14:34 | cait | hm maybe some from pre-pootle days... but most shoudl be just the translation server as author |
| 14:34 | ashimema: how woudl the update happen on the submodule repo? | |
| 14:34 | ashimema | the issue with loosing history isn't the history of those files themselves but the way git records it.. |
| 14:35 | removing those files historically (which would lead to the biggest improvement in repo size) would change the commit hashes for the whole history (every commit).. | |
| 14:35 | which could cause headaches | |
| 14:35 | cait | oh |
| 14:35 | so all links in bugzilla etc... broken? | |
| 14:36 | ashimema | pretty much as it does now cait.. the translations are already basically maintained in their own repo on github.. the rmaints (and rm) just pull in one commit each release from it. |
| 14:36 | cait | not such a big fan fo that idea |
| 14:36 | fridolin | my disk space is fan of it ;) |
| 14:36 | ashimema | kohadevbox and koha-testing-docker would be fans of it ;) |
| 14:37 | fridolin | and jenkins |
| 14:37 | cait | so that would be... option 3? |
| 14:37 | thd | Which options break links? |
| 14:38 | ashimema | there's lots of good positives here.. it's whether they outweight the negatives |
| 14:38 | corilynn | i don't think i understand the negatives |
| 14:38 | cait | i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes |
| 14:38 | and it's all still there but reorganized | |
| 14:38 | thd | Does option 3 "Keep-loose history" break links? |
| 14:39 | ashimema | I should clean up that page.. it doesn't make it desperately clear |
| 14:39 | what links are we talking about cait? | |
| 14:39 | an example would be good | |
| 14:39 | cait | linking to a commit on git |
| 14:40 | some bug trackers allow you do that nicely... i think we don't have tons of those in bugzilla, only some | |
| 14:40 | usually something liek: i tracked it back to commit... breaking things | |
| 14:40 | ashimema | personally.. I like the idea of drawing a line and having a koha-legacy repo where all the links would just continue to work |
| 14:41 | as nothing would change.. it just stops moving | |
| 14:41 | then doing the splitting and cleaning as a fresh set of repos | |
| 14:41 | all new development goes onto the new repo's | |
| 14:42 | the issue is more about how all devs would need to switch to tracking the new repository | |
| 14:42 | cait | (16:38:44) cait: i am not sure about losing history = does it mean, it's gone (like freshly initiated) or just: changed hashes |
| 14:42 | (16:38:52) cait: and it's all still there but reorganized | |
| 14:42 | still a bit stuck on that question | |
| 14:42 | thd | Yes, if creating legacy preserves all history and does not break past links. |
| 14:42 | ashimema | and.. their existing branches and patches would need updateing to apply to the new repos' |
| 14:42 | khall joined #koha | |
| 14:42 | ashimema | what you'd see allot of in the beggining would be that horrible `sha1 does not apply` pach issue on existing bugs and patches. |
| 14:43 | cait | i've never learned how to resolve these |
| 14:43 | so it's a little scary | |
| 14:43 | ashimema | it's that applying bugzilla patches stuff that would be painful for a few months I think |
| 14:43 | thd | The problem to not break links would also be about naming such that if the old would be renamed koha-legacy that itself would break links. |
| 14:44 | cait | if we moved to gitlab or similar it woudl also get broken... links would be nice... but more concerned about the not applying now |
| 14:44 | ashimema | indeed thd.. though we could symlink 'koha' to 'koha-legacy' at the main koha git repo server end I believe.. |
| 14:44 | cait | how do you handle patches that don't apply developer side? with the sha1? |
| 14:44 | ashimema | and move forward with 'koha-core' and 'koha-i18n' or whatever as the new |
| 14:45 | you can manually apply them cait.. though it doesn't always work nicely | |
| 14:45 | cait | what means manually apply? |
| 14:46 | ashimema | what you can often do is 'patch -p1 < failed_patch.patch' |
| 14:46 | cait | hm if we do that change... I thnk we need to have that written up |
| 14:47 | ashimema | I can write something up to help with that pain.. but it certainly would cause pain to start with |
| 14:47 | cait | and also have people helping others with rebasing |
| 14:47 | ashimema | indeed |
| 14:48 | Joubu is keen to move forward and I'm keen to 'do it right' | |
| 14:48 | cait | I am not against doing it, but let's not rush |
| 14:48 | amybe we can make the page a bit clearer on suspected side effects | |
| 14:49 | and do a feedback round on the mailing list? (koha-devel) | |
| 14:49 | ashimema | as in.. make sure the community are in agreement as to how and understand the repurcussions and benefits |
| 14:49 | indeed | |
| 14:49 | I think I'll leave it as a standing topic whilst Joubu and I work on clarifying it all | |
| 14:49 | yeah, that's also a good idea cait | |
| 14:49 | shall we move onto the next topic for now? | |
| 14:50 | #info Martin will send something to the dev mailing list regarding git maintanence proposals | |
| 14:50 | thd | Given that the vast majority of the problem comes from translation history I presume that preserving translations monolithically would be liable to recreate the same problem for translations at a later point if not immediately. |
| 14:50 | ashimema | #info Martin will try to clarify the existing git splitting page |
| 14:50 | #info We will keep this as a standing topic on the agenda whilst it's still in progress | |
| 14:51 | perhaps thd.. but it's a problem that will affect fewer people | |
| 14:52 | the main effects at this point in time are issues with devbox and things struggling to cope with the size of the main repo.. | |
| 14:52 | thd | If a koha-legacy is created would it not be better to then also have separate repositories for each translation to constrain history size? |
| 14:52 | ashimema | in reality only the translation manager and rmaints/rm ever need to actually interact with the i18n repo at all |
| 14:52 | hense 'they can cope' | |
| 14:53 | thd | ...ahh |
| 14:53 | ashimema | I don't believe it would win us much.. for the above reasons ;) |
| 14:53 | it's only really the main repo for the majority of devs that we're worried about.. | |
| 14:54 | example in point.. at the hackfests we often get a group of new devs all trying to clone our main repo at the same time.. | |
| 14:54 | because it's huge and they're all doing it we often swamp the bandwidth of the local internet and everyone grinds to a halt | |
| 14:54 | thd | one can always imagine features which could have a high growth trajectory. |
| 14:55 | ashimema | a smaller repo would basically make that sort of problem go away |
| 14:55 | instead of 'git clone -> go and have lunch' it would be 'git clone -> grab a cup of tea' | |
| 14:55 | hehe, indeed | |
| 14:55 | so...... | |
| 14:55 | wahanui | i think so is the koha ON the mac? |
| 14:55 | ashimema | moving on.. thanks for all the input and please keep mulling it over if you have any thoughts |
| 14:56 | #topic Review of coding guidelines | |
| 14:56 | Topic for #koha is now Review of coding guidelines (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:56 | thd | We would need to be mindful of potential features which might lead to the same problem and create separate repositories for them when the growth curve becomes evident. |
| 14:56 | ashimema | #topc Using the Koha::Script base class |
| 14:56 | #topic Using the Koha::Script base class | |
| 14:56 | Topic for #koha is now Using the Koha::Script base class (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 14:57 | ashimema | correct thd |
| 14:57 | So.. we introduced a base class for command line scripts with bug 22600, but neglected to add a guidline to ensure it's use going forward. | |
| 14:57 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=22600 blocker, P2, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, We should add an 'interface' field to accountlines |
| 14:58 | ashimema | As it stands, that base class basically sets up a consistent environment for scripts to run, so we get consistent action_logs for example from all cronjobs and maintanence scripts |
| 14:58 | I propose to write such a guideline and take a vote on it next meeting (forgot to do a draft for this meeting) | |
| 14:59 | cait | +1 |
| 14:59 | ashimema | #info We introduced a base class for scripts in bug 22600 - We should add a guideline to facilitate it's maintanence. |
| 14:59 | :) | |
| 15:00 | ok.. I'll write it up for next meeting.. apologies I'm bhind | |
| 15:00 | next | |
| 15:00 | * fridolin | goes to train, see you |
| 15:00 | ashimema | #topic Update to SQL12 |
| 15:00 | Topic for #koha is now Update to SQL12 (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 15:00 | ashimema | this one was another Joubu + tcohen one |
| 15:00 | I'll try to explain though.. | |
| 15:01 | We currently use TINYINT(1) in the database for any form of boolean.. but TINYINT(1) may also be used for other things which makes it hard for QA scripts to tell if it's meant to be a boolean or not | |
| 15:01 | and.. | |
| 15:02 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 15:03 | ashimema | qa people are missing cases where booleans are being introduced and not being appropraitely set in the DBIC classes (and as such the REST api is not converiting them to valid JSON::Booleans) |
| 15:03 | I 'think' the discussion here was meant to ask 'What next' | |
| 15:03 | should we switch to something other than TINYINT(1) (BOOLEAN or BIT perhaps) | |
| 15:03 | or set a 'warning' type failure in the QA scripts and get the QA persons to decide whether it's an actual fail or not? | |
| 15:04 | thoughts? | |
| 15:04 | * ashimema | wishes tcohen and Joubu were here |
| 15:04 | ashimema | met by silence.. another one to wait on the relevant parties I reckon |
| 15:05 | cait | maybe |
| 15:05 | not quite the topic i know a lot about :) | |
| 15:05 | ashimema | #info Further discussion postponed pending knowledable parties. |
| 15:05 | #topic Revise JS guideline JS8 to recomment ESLint | |
| 15:05 | Topic for #koha is now Revise JS guideline JS8 to recomment ESLint (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 15:05 | thd | I think that treating booleans as a numeric value has huge importance for future standards based support. |
| 15:06 | ashimema | oleonard around? |
| 15:06 | this is his? | |
| 15:06 | cait | i think so |
| 15:07 | ashimema | MS SQL is about the only DB system that gets 'BOOLEAN' right as per the original intention of the SQL spec apparently |
| 15:07 | thd ^ | |
| 15:07 | I 'think' BIT is the closest other DB's have got | |
| 15:08 | OK, no oleonard and we've hit the 1 hour mark | |
| 15:08 | lets move onto the last topic | |
| 15:08 | thd | Well, if that is really correct and widely applicable for other contexts of Boolean use as well then great. ... moving |
| 15:08 | ashimema | #info Posponed discussion as oleonard is absent |
| 15:09 | #topic Set time of next meeting | |
| 15:09 | Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 15:09 | ashimema | coming into summer now so I think we're going to be operating on a skeliton crew for the next few meetings |
| 15:12 | thd | Is 24 July a useful date? |
| 15:12 | reiveune | bye |
| 15:12 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 15:12 | cait | winter in nz :) |
| 15:12 | should work | |
| 15:13 | ashimema | I think it'll be a short one.. but I do think it's good to have one in the diary every two weeks (we can always cancel the slot if there are no topics) |
| 15:13 | so.. that would make it 24th July I believe | |
| 15:13 | cait | agreed |
| 15:13 | ashimema | and.. I'm trying to be good and line up so the NZ croud can attend.. so that puts it |
| 15:14 | 8pm BST | |
| 15:14 | 19:00 UTC | |
| 15:14 | so... | |
| 15:15 | cait | too early |
| 15:15 | ashimema | 24 July 2019, 19:00:00 UTC - Does that suit? |
| 15:15 | thd | 20 UTC is currently set for the general meeting but I think 19 UTC may be closer to what people favoured in the preferred times poll. |
| 15:15 | cait | hm let me check quickly |
| 15:16 | i think 20 might work slightly better | |
| 15:16 | ashimema | 19UTC was what we did two weeks ago |
| 15:16 | cait | because of daylight savings |
| 15:16 | 10 hours from here to nz | |
| 15:16 | 20 utc should be 8 am | |
| 15:16 | thd | We have allowed meeting times to drift in the opposite direction of the survey times as summer time changes have come and gone. |
| 15:16 | ashimema | any objections anyone else |
| 15:17 | cait | more likely to catch people at work |
| 15:17 | thd | I prefer 19 UTC so no objection from me. |
| 15:17 | ashimema | sorry.. I meant objections to 20 |
| 15:18 | thd | I was trying to state that 19 UTC may be closer to what the time survey had indicated people favoured. |
| 15:18 | ashimema | 20 is 9pm UK |
| 15:19 | nothing say it needs to be on the hour.. perhaps 19:30 in a vane atempt to keep more people happy | |
| 15:19 | thd | I like 19.30 ;) |
| 15:19 | cait | keep people on their toes ;) |
| 15:20 | ashimema | #info Next meeting: 24 July 2019, 19:30 UTC |
| 15:20 | done :) | |
| 15:20 | thd | People may need special notice to show up not too early and leave :) |
| 15:20 | ashimema | thanks all |
| 15:20 | #endmeeting | |
| 15:20 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org | |
| 15:20 | huginn` | Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 15:20:18 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 15:20 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-10-14.01.html | |
| 15:20 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-07-10-14.01.txt | |
| 15:20 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-14.01.log.html | |
| 15:21 | eythian | ashimema: a suggestion: require a comment on the tinyint field that is "boolean" or "not boolean" and the tooling can use and enforce that. |
| 15:21 | ashimema | ohh.. why didn't I tihnk of that! |
| 15:21 | great suggestion eythian | |
| 15:21 | eythian | yw :) |
| 15:21 | thd | eythian++ |
| 15:24 | * ashimema | goes for :tea: |
| 15:24 | ashimema | thanks everyone |
| 15:25 | thd | ashimema: I have learnt not to trust any SQL type special storage of values. Store the numbers or strings so that they come out the way they came in, however, with booleans maybe that is a legacy coding practise preference of mine. |
| 15:25 | eythian | mysql has no boolean type, and traditionally tinyint(1) is used for that. |
| 15:26 | actually | |
| 15:26 | that's not totally true | |
| 15:26 | thd | So I thought, what was the claim in the meeting though? |
| 15:26 | eythian | it has a "boolean" type that is a synonym for "tinyint(1)" |
| 15:27 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 15:27 | eythian | The problem can be that Perl is pretty happily wishy-washy about what is what type, it'll make it look right. |
| 15:27 | This is a problem when serialising for stricter formats. | |
| 15:27 | (I once crashed many, many phones by getting that wrong.) | |
| 15:29 | thd | Yes, Perl and other weakly typed languages framed my preferences for preferred data typing of booleans at least. |
| 15:35 | Documenting type strongly allows for data exchange between strongly and weakly typed languages, although, I could see a case for downconverting of data type strength. | |
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| 17:43 | tcohen | hi all |
| 18:11 | cait joined #koha | |
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| 18:36 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 18:36 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 18:36 | @seen cait | |
| 18:36 | huginn` | mtompset: cait was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <cait> keep people on their toes ;) |
| 18:37 | mtompset | Are you here, cait? |
| 18:38 | @later tell cait I noticed that there is a HOLD_SLIP in fr-CA that isn't in en. Should it be? | |
| 18:38 | huginn` | mtompset: The operation succeeded. |
| 18:38 | cait | probably not |
| 18:38 | but wondering, i think we have a hold slip | |
| 18:39 | mtompset | bug 17469 |
| 18:39 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=17469 normal, P5 - low, ---, caitlingoodger.student, CLOSED FIXED, fr-CA web installer is missing some sample notices |
| 18:39 | cait | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]=grep&s=HOLD_SLIP |
| 18:39 | are you sure it's not in en? | |
| 18:40 | mtompset | let me recheck... maybe my grep was bad. |
| 18:41 | DOH! Underscore. | |
| 18:41 | Let me fix my grep. :) | |
| 18:42 | cait | there is also a test, i think in xt |
| 18:42 | checking for notices | |
| 18:45 | mtompset | cait++ # there is an xt test. |
| 18:46 | cait | maybe check if it covers the new installer |
| 18:47 | fr-CA | |
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| 20:00 | cait | meeting time? |
| 20:01 | Charles_Quain | Hi there |
| 20:01 | cait | hey Charles_Quain - how are you doing? |
| 20:01 | Charles_Quain | Good thanks. How are things with you? |
| 20:01 | cait | busy but improving |
| 20:02 | Charles_Quain | busy is good - at least I try to convince myself of that! |
| 20:02 | cait | ashimema: rangi? |
| 20:02 | wahanui | rangi is a pretty big get |
| 20:02 | rangi | hmm? |
| 20:02 | cait | Charles_Quain: :) |
| 20:02 | rangi | what did i do now? |
| 20:02 | cait | wondering who is around for general meeting |
| 20:03 | nothing, just noticed you logging in | |
| 20:03 | ashimema | Late apologies, looking after ill family |
| 20:03 | rangi | ah yep, i can do a kohacon20 update |
| 20:03 | ashimema | Sorry guys |
| 20:04 | cait | oh no |
| 20:04 | hope they will feel better soon | |
| 20:04 | should I chair? | |
| 20:04 | we can have a quick one | |
| 20:04 | rangi | yep |
| 20:04 | cait | #startmeeting General IRC meeting 10 July 2019 |
| 20:04 | huginn` | Meeting started Wed Jul 10 20:04:27 2019 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 20:04 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 20:04 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:04 | huginn` | The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_10_july_2019' |
| 20:04 | cait | #topic Introductions |
| 20:04 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:04 | cait | Please introduce yourself using #info |
| 20:04 | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ting_10_July_2019 Today's agenda | |
| 20:04 | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany | |
| 20:05 | rangi | #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, NZ |
| 20:05 | Charles_Quain | #info Charles Quain, Interleaf Technology |
| 20:05 | * ashimema | tries to listen in |
| 20:05 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-E |
| 20:05 | bag | #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater |
| 20:05 | ashimema | thanks for stepping into the breach cait |
| 20:05 | rangi | can we add kohacon20 to the agenda cait ? |
| 20:05 | cait | no worries |
| 20:05 | yep | |
| 20:05 | do you want to add it to wiki? | |
| 20:05 | rangi | just at the end is fine |
| 20:05 | will do | |
| 20:05 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 20:05 | cait | thx |
| 20:06 | Charles_Quain | And add what to do with the KohaCon19 surplus? |
| 20:06 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 20:06 | cait | ok, so maybe a Kohacon19/20 then :) |
| 20:06 | moving on | |
| 20:06 | ah, waiting for davidnind | |
| 20:06 | last chance to #info everyone :) | |
| 20:07 | davidnind | #info David Nind, New Zealand |
| 20:07 | cait | #topic Announcements |
| 20:07 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:07 | davidnind | just... |
| 20:07 | cait | Any announcements? |
| 20:07 | rangi | Charles_Quain: i had an idea about that, we can come to it when we get to the kohacon topic ;) |
| 20:07 | bag | Bring Guinness :) |
| 20:07 | rangi | heh |
| 20:07 | cait | nothing going on? :) |
| 20:08 | Koha US maybe? | |
| 20:08 | rangi | just a really busy year for all koha support companies it seems |
| 20:08 | cait | has it ever been different? :) |
| 20:08 | rangi | nope :) |
| 20:08 | cait | #info Registration for koha-US conference is open https://koha-us.org/2019/07/01[…]egistration-open/ |
| 20:08 | ashimema | Caroline was going to update us as to how the education meeting went wasn't she |
| 20:08 | bag | There is a kohaus conference in September |
| 20:08 | davidnind | #info Hackfest 2019 30 September to 4th Octoberhttps://lists.katipo.co.nz/pip[…]-July/053277.html |
| 20:08 | bag | cait++ |
| 20:09 | ashimema | oh.. she's also in the apologies |
| 20:09 | cait | ah great, thx davidnind |
| 20:09 | bag | hackfest is a great one to attend if you get a chance |
| 20:09 | cait | true |
| 20:09 | rangi | one day |
| 20:09 | cait | moving on |
| 20:09 | #topic Update on releases | |
| 20:09 | Topic for #koha is now Update on releases (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:09 | cait | i'll repeat from earlier today |
| 20:09 | wizzyrea joined #koha | |
| 20:10 | cait | #info Maintenance releases are moving along nicely |
| 20:10 | wizzyrea: want to add something? | |
| 20:10 | ok, moving on :) | |
| 20:10 | lukeG joined #koha | |
| 20:11 | cait | ah, rmaints dropping in |
| 20:11 | ashimema | #info Moving into pushing small to medium sized enhancements on master now - out of bugfix only freeze period :) |
| 20:11 | cait | cool :) |
| 20:11 | moving on now | |
| 20:12 | #topic Wiki | |
| 20:12 | Topic for #koha is now Wiki (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:12 | wizzyrea | #info Liz Rea |
| 20:12 | cait | all eyes on agenda - reading quickly now :) |
| 20:13 | davidnind | We discussed at the documentation meeting, but my memory has faded already... |
| 20:14 | cait | In general I think we discussed updating to a recent version |
| 20:14 | I'd like us to think about even restarting | |
| 20:14 | thd | I added some contents to the wiki section of the agenda correcting for some mistaken notions. I have not added something appropriate to the wiki update bug yet. |
| 20:14 | cait | i don't quit eshare the thought that stuff should never be deleted |
| 20:14 | rangi | yeah |
| 20:14 | cait | I tihnk we might want to consider a restart |
| 20:15 | ashimema | 1.16 dates back to 2011 |
| 20:15 | thd | The problem with MediaWiki deletion is that it does not leave a history. |
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| 20:15 | davidnind | bug 23073 |
| 20:15 | huginn` | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=23073 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, NEW , wiki.koha-community.org needs updating to a later version |
| 20:15 | Nemo_bis | it doesn't? O_o |
| 20:15 | cait | #info current wiki version is 1.16, dating back to 2011 |
| 20:15 | Nemo_bis | history is only deleted if the purge archive maintenance script is run |
| 20:15 | cait | hi Nemo_bis, thx for chiming in |
| 20:16 | could you detail? so deleted pages could be recovered? | |
| 20:16 | Nemo_bis | aka https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki[…]ivedRevisions.php |
| 20:16 | thd | Ok, maybe I am mistaken. I know the big issue about which people complained when it has happened on Wikipedia. |
| 20:16 | ashimema | that was my understanding too Nemo_bis, but I thought I might be out of date.. thanks for varifying |
| 20:16 | Nemo_bis | unless you delete directly from the database, yes |
| 20:16 | cait | so what are peoples thoughts? |
| 20:17 | I think we can agree on 'needing a newer version'? | |
| 20:17 | update or restart? | |
| 20:17 | rangi | i dont mind either way, whatever is quicker |
| 20:17 | ashimema | my feeling is that a large percentage of the current wiki content is actually more misleading than helpful |
| 20:17 | rangi | before we lose everything |
| 20:17 | cait | rangi: lose everything? |
| 20:17 | thd | I think that it would be easier to organise the existing content than start over. |
| 20:18 | The big issue is migrating the database. | |
| 20:18 | rangi | cait: when someone exploits a 8 year old bug/hole and trashes the server |
| 20:18 | ashimema | could we start afresh but leave the old one running for a while in case we do decide we want to migrate any particular pages? |
| 20:18 | cait | rangi: makes sense... although i hope we have backups somewhere |
| 20:18 | rangi | ashimema: id agree with that |
| 20:18 | cait | yeah, i was thinking something along these lines |
| 20:18 | hand-pick the good stuff | |
| 20:18 | bag | I think gmcharlt - y’all are hosting that right? (I can’t remember) |
| 20:18 | I’m sure they have backups | |
| 20:18 | cait | equinox for the wiki, yep |
| 20:19 | gmcharlt | yep |
| 20:19 | * cait | jumps |
| 20:19 | bag | yeah they definitely have backups |
| 20:19 | rangi | backups are great as long as you notice it happening :) |
| 20:19 | bag | heya galen |
| 20:19 | gmcharlt | howdy |
| 20:19 | wahanui | privet, gmcharlt |
| 20:19 | bag | true |
| 20:19 | thd | There may be backups but backups are only as good as the testing of those backups. |
| 20:19 | rangi | otherwsie you back up the mess too :) |
| 20:20 | but yeah i would agree with ashimema | |
| 20:20 | cait | gmcharlt: have you read back? we were discussion about updating the wiki |
| 20:20 | or... starting afresh on a new version | |
| 20:20 | gmcharlt | I'm amenable both to upgrading it and to starting fresh, preferably on something other than mediawiki |
| 20:20 | rangi | gmcharlt++ |
| 20:20 | cait | do you have something in mind? |
| 20:20 | thd | We could maintain the old content in an archived format which would not allow exploiting any MediaWiki bugs. |
| 20:21 | cait | another software I mean |
| 20:21 | gmcharlt | cait: dokuwiki, actually, for sake of simplicity, but I'm certainly open to other suggestions |
| 20:21 | ashimema | We should be able to put the old one into read only (even if only at the db level) and still be able to get at the wiki markup of pages to grab the best bits manually as required.. I would imagine after a few months all the most helpful content would have been migrated |
| 20:21 | cait | I still run my own dokuwiki... so I wouldn't mind |
| 20:22 | Nemo_bis | upgrading from MediaWiki 1.16 is not very hard |
| 20:22 | cait | but that's not radically different to what we have now :) |
| 20:22 | Nemo_bis | I can help with it if needed |
| 20:22 | ashimema | oh.. I'd not even considered using another wiki platform.. more than happy to be guided by others on that front |
| 20:22 | thd | Direct updating without first migrating to MySQL will probably reach a deadend for some state of MediaWiki software and certainly prevent many proposed extensions etc. from working. |
| 20:22 | cait | what is it running on now? postgres? |
| 20:22 | thd | yes |
| 20:23 | It was an historical mistake when a test became the only wiki running. | |
| 20:23 | ashimema | what puts you off mediawiki gmcharlt ? |
| 20:23 | cait | #info current Mediawiki is running on PostgreSQL |
| 20:24 | ashimema | I've found the recent editors in mediawiki pretty straighforward |
| 20:24 | rangi | its big, its heavy, its wood |
| 20:24 | gmcharlt | and we ended up inadvertantly on a less-well-supported path with running on on Pg |
| 20:24 | Nemo_bis | PostgreSQL is still officially supported, so any upgrade error would be a welcome bug report and is usually fixed (but yes, not necessarily fun) |
| 20:25 | gmcharlt | I'm not strongly against it, but in (in comparison) have found dokuwiki sufficient for Evergreen's needs |
| 20:25 | thd | The problem is not that Postgres is not supported at all. It is less well supported than MySQL. |
| 20:25 | Nemo_bis | thd: no doubt about that :) |
| 20:25 | cait | #idea Change of wiki platform, for example to DokuWiki (no database needed, easier to maintain) |
| 20:25 | Nemo_bis | A couple extensions here are not supported any more but I'm not sure they're in wide use https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Special:Version |
| 20:25 | gmcharlt | though of course, for both projects, there's certainly always the perpetual problem of wanting as much wiki librarian cycles as we can get to keep content fresh and organized |
| 20:26 | bag | good point |
| 20:26 | cait | wiki librarian cycles? |
| 20:26 | thd | I found docuwiki to have huge problems where it had become unmanageable with unlinked content and lacking the level of features provided by MediaWiki. |
| 20:26 | gmcharlt | and I /don't/ belive that mediawiki vs dokuwiki makes a great deal of difference as far as that's concerned |
| 20:26 | Nemo_bis | dokuwiki's simplicity is often deceptive more than real (but I'm a biased MediaWiki person of course) |
| 20:26 | bag | a curator? |
| 20:27 | thd | However, MediaWiki was supposed to be a test. |
| 20:27 | bag | any wiki is as good as the content and organization |
| 20:27 | cait | I think we don't use a lot of the features right now |
| 20:27 | maybe the templating things | |
| 20:27 | Nemo_bis | A first step then would be to reduce the complexity of the installation |
| 20:27 | cait | i am not aware that Dokuwiki has that |
| 20:27 | Nemo_bis | Do you really need SemanticMediaWiki, for instance? |
| 20:27 | cait | Nemo_bis: I'd say no |
| 20:27 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 20:28 | cait | ok, next steps? |
| 20:28 | thd | If we migrate to MySQL or start over with MediaWiki we could then add SemanticMediaWiKi which has much to support the work of keeping everything in good order. |
| 20:28 | rangi | yeah i dont think lack of features has ever been an issue, more no one is cleaning dead/wrong content |
| 20:28 | ashimema | I believe our use of semanticmediawiki is broken anyway |
| 20:29 | * ashimema | agrees with rangi |
| 20:29 | gmcharlt | yeah, tooling goes but so far w/o concentrated wikilibrarian/curator effort |
| 20:29 | thd | We do not have any use of SemanticMediaWiki other than it may have been installed. |
| 20:29 | ashimema | though.. on the few occasions I've tried to maintain I found our version of mediawiki challenging to organise |
| 20:30 | we really need somewhat of a plan for organising content from day one and a guide for new submissions | |
| 20:30 | * ashimema | curated a few wiki's over the years.. including openstreetmaps one |
| 20:30 | gmcharlt | ashimema: so, a question for you: how many folks would you want with you in a committed curator corps? |
| 20:30 | thd | Organisation is really about assigning tags and categories which mostly never happened when we were using Docuwiki. |
| 20:31 | cait | ashimema is RM currently... so not sure we hsould lay more on him |
| 20:31 | ashimema | As much as I love SemanticMediaWiki, I don't feel we need the added complexity it adds on day one |
| 20:31 | cait | but i know the docs team was interested |
| 20:31 | davidnind: ? | |
| 20:31 | ashimema | haha |
| 20:31 | happy to help and guide.. but yeah.. i've low on tuits being RM and all ;) | |
| 20:31 | cait | actually this was brought over as a topic from docs meeting |
| 20:31 | bag | gmcharlt and all - I think this is a good topic to bring up during that new “trainers” sub-group that is going |
| 20:31 | davidnind | the discussion was around getting someone to do it, which is the bit that is missing at the moment |
| 20:31 | bag | or what cait said |
| 20:31 | ashimema | Nemo_bis sounds very knowledgable.. sounds like a good condidate? |
| 20:32 | thd | MediaWiki makes it very easy to find lost content to tag and categorise it. Docuwiki did not seem to have any way to identify such unlinked content. |
| 20:32 | Nemo_bis | ah yes, MediaWiki is good for obsessive taggers :) |
| 20:32 | ashimema | davidnind, do you have any sort of proposals/notions of what content belongs where? |
| 20:33 | what exactly do we want a wiki for (bearing in mind the efforts going into the manual etc) | |
| 20:33 | cait | ok, I think maybe we need to break here with osme #actions for next meeting? |
| 20:33 | thd | In Docuwiki most of our content could only be found by searching in the dark with respect to the actual content. |
| 20:33 | cait | #agreed current wiki software is way out of date and we need to remedy that |
| 20:33 | davidnind | not really, but I think we need a plan - whihc I'm happy to help with/lead |
| 20:33 | ashimema | good plan cait |
| 20:34 | * ashimema | is enjoying the distraction from playing nurse |
| 20:34 | cait | gmcharlt: as you are currently running Mediawiki - what woudl we need to do? |
| 20:34 | ashimema | first action right there cait.. david has offered to help create a plan :) |
| 20:34 | cait | davidnind: you ok to be named 'lead of wiki update'? |
| 20:34 | gmcharlt | ashimema: since I think we have a consensus (?) about starting fressh |
| 20:35 | davidnind | cait: yep, ties in with documentation well |
| 20:35 | cait | we should also decide on naming releases after muppets today *hides* |
| 20:35 | gmcharlt | first task I think would be carving out hosting some where with a fresh mediawiki/dokuwiki/out-come-of-rock-paper-scissors-wiki install |
| 20:35 | davidnind | cait++ |
| 20:35 | cait | #action davidnind named as 'lead of wiki update' - will try and help get a plan down |
| 20:35 | gmcharlt | (and potentially see if there's other stuff that trainers/docs would want?) |
| 20:36 | cait | gmcharlt: would Equinox be willing to continue hosting? |
| 20:36 | ashimema | gmcharlt: Agree entirely |
| 20:36 | gmcharlt | cait: yep, we'd will willing to set up another VM and host $newwiki |
| 20:36 | cait | #info Equinox willing to continue hosting the wiki |
| 20:37 | #info Consensus on starting fresh with a plan to keep things organized | |
| 20:37 | #info Wiki software to be discussed (continue with new Mediawiki, use Dokuwiki, use $wiki) | |
| 20:37 | thd | We might do what was suddenly not done when the old wiki went down which was to test different possibilities and choose what seems to work best with actual testing. |
| 20:37 | cait | #action add Wiki and requirements/wish list for future to next educator's meeting |
| 20:38 | maybe if we have a wiki page set up we could collect some ideas | |
| 20:38 | ok, so far so good? | |
| 20:38 | i'd move on then | |
| 20:38 | davidnind | great |
| 20:39 | cait | #topic Update/obsolete installation guides on wiki |
| 20:39 | Topic for #koha is now Update/obsolete installation guides on wiki (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:39 | cait | davidnind: could you? |
| 20:39 | davidnind | my brain is mush today |
| 20:39 | ashimema | thanks all for that.. very productive |
| 20:39 | thd | #MESSAGE gmcharlt gmcharlt: I would like to update my ssh access to preserve some things which may otherwise be lost to history. |
| 20:40 | davidnind | the idea I think was to have a 'proper' installation guide |
| 20:40 | either on the wiki or separately as part of the manual | |
| 20:40 | cait | we have a lot of htem right now, but I think we only link a few in release notes |
| 20:40 | davidnind | there are so many guides available when you goodle it |
| 20:40 | google it | |
| 20:40 | ashimema | I'd vote for in the manual |
| 20:41 | cait | it often leads to issues when people follow hte ones outside of the wiki... but the wiki ones can be tricky too |
| 20:41 | davidnind | wherever it is we need to keep current (as most things documentation) |
| 20:41 | cait | #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]ion_Documentation Release notes link to this page for installation guides |
| 20:42 | davidnind | I'm working through the main ones at the moment on the wiki (Debian + Ubuntu packages) |
| 20:42 | ashimema | one install guide for the majority and in the manual and other guides should be categorized into development install types |
| 20:42 | thd | The manual should be primary but there should always be room for details, comments, etc. in the wiki which could not fit in a clear manual. |
| 20:42 | ashimema | in reality it feels like we've reached a maturity level in the project where there is really only one 'recommended' install type |
| 20:42 | the others are all developer oriented | |
| 20:43 | davidnind | thd: good idea - there are always lost of nuances |
| 20:43 | rangi | ashimema: yes |
| 20:43 | davidnind | so is everyone okay with this approach, and we work out the details of the best way to do this |
| 20:43 | cait | we are talking packages right? |
| 20:43 | rangi | davidnind: i am |
| 20:44 | ashimema | me too |
| 20:44 | gmcharlt | speaking of isntallation, I think we must come up with a better use for old Apollo guidance computers than mining bitcoin |
| 20:44 | cait | #info Package installation is the recommended installation method |
| 20:44 | gmcharlt | obvious, I hope folks get inspired to work on a Koha port ;) |
| 20:44 | davidnind | my tape machine no longer works... |
| 20:45 | cait | so suggestions? |
| 20:45 | caroline_catlady joined #koha | |
| 20:45 | cait | hi caroline_catlady :) |
| 20:46 | caroline_catlady | hi! did I miss the meeting? |
| 20:46 | davidnind | either a separate official guide or part of the manual, with a place somewhere (wiki?) for notes and variations |
| 20:46 | cait | we tasked you with everything noone else wanted to do ;) |
| 20:46 | caroline_catlady | hehe! |
| 20:46 | cait | ok, so one official installation gude focused on packages? |
| 20:46 | davidnind | :) |
| 20:46 | ++ | |
| 20:46 | cait | #idea have one official installation guide for a package installation, variations for devs in the wiki |
| 20:47 | davidnind | success will be the official guide is the first google/bing/duckduck go result :) |
| 20:47 | cait | #info remember to change links in the release note scripts once in place |
| 20:47 | is someone willing to clean up the package install gude for the manual? | |
| 20:48 | davidnind | I'm working through that with a local vm |
| 20:48 | cait | feeling slightly bad about tasking you again, but I will |
| 20:48 | rangi | cool davidnind |
| 20:48 | davidnind | will probably pester dev list with questions I have that don't make sense to me |
| 20:48 | Nemo_bis | (Meanwhile, Debian packages are the best way to install MediaWiki as well, if you are on Debian. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki[…]:Legoktm/Packages ) |
| 20:48 | cait | #action davidnind working through installation guide currently for updating |
| 20:49 | ok, moving on to last topic for tonight? | |
| 20:49 | davidnind++ too | |
| 20:49 | #topic Koha Community Project Day | |
| 20:49 | Topic for #koha is now Koha Community Project Day (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 20:49 | cait | this was a last minute addition form me |
| 20:50 | was thining about how to wake things up a bit | |
| 20:50 | we are all crazy busy so it's hard to make progress on stuff | |
| 20:50 | maybe if set a date and people put down possible projects/tasks... things they want to work on | |
| 20:50 | caroline_catlady | like a virtual hackfest? |
| 20:50 | davidnind | was wanting to do a doc sprint at some stage (outstanding action point for me), maybe over a week |
| 20:50 | cait | yeah a bit |
| 20:50 | not only focused on bugs | |
| 20:51 | clean up wiki pages... check website content... could be anything | |
| 20:51 | write a new plugin | |
| 20:51 | bag | check_website_content++ |
| 20:51 | ashimema | cait++ |
| 20:51 | cait | would that be something people would like to participate in? |
| 20:51 | Charles_Quain | sounds like a great idea |
| 20:52 | davidnind | maybe a theme for each month and a 24 hour day, or a day a month with people working on whatever strikes their fancy? |
| 20:52 | rangi | yep |
| 20:52 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 20:52 | rangi | like the bug squash magnuse used to run |
| 20:52 | cait | yep, just a bit broader |
| 20:52 | not only bug squashing | |
| 20:52 | lukeG | sounds awesome |
| 20:53 | ashimema | I wish we had more ways/better ways to reward and therefore incentivise people to do more |
| 20:53 | cait | it's true |
| 20:53 | so... maybe starting with a doodle to find a date? | |
| 20:53 | and people interested? | |
| 20:53 | i could try to set that up this or beginning of next week | |
| 20:53 | ashimema | probably at a company level.. I see alot of individuals really committed but it's often also a battle for those people to justify working on the less obviously rewarding to companies work |
| 20:54 | * caroline_catlady | thinks saving kittens is a pretty good incentive |
| 20:54 | cait | i feel we also got a lot of other thing sstuck |
| 20:54 | ashimema | for short run things I agree caroline |
| 20:54 | cait | so testing out wikis and thinking about structure could also be a project |
| 20:54 | rangi | i think the thing is to pick a date a little way out, and just say thats it |
| 20:54 | cait | ok, i coudl do that |
| 20:54 | rangi | then companies/people can organise to be free that day |
| 20:54 | davidnind | agree |
| 20:54 | ashimema | and those short bursts certainly get things moving.. so I'm totally game for them |
| 20:54 | cait | among people here... any preferneces for hte day of week? |
| 20:54 | rangi | eaiser than trying to find a day that works |
| 20:55 | Charles_Quain | I dont like Wedensdays |
| 20:55 | cait | noted |
| 20:55 | ashimema | InLibro already have community fridays don't they? |
| 20:55 | and we loosly have fridays as a more flexible day | |
| 20:56 | cait | friday means a bit late for kiwis... unelss they make it their thursday |
| 20:56 | davidnind | apologies have to go to 'important' work meeting, have my support for doing this |
| 20:56 | cait | thx davidnind! |
| 20:56 | rangi | thanks davidnind |
| 20:56 | caroline_catlady | for sure fridays are best for us, since it's already our community work day |
| 20:56 | cait | we could do a 'friday' whereever |
| 20:56 | rangi | do a friday in your timezone |
| 20:57 | cait | ok |
| 20:57 | so like the gbsd | |
| 20:57 | rangi | yep |
| 20:57 | then we get almost 48 hours of work :) | |
| 20:57 | cait | august 9 too late? |
| 20:57 | ashimema | yup |
| 20:57 | cait | july 26 |
| 20:58 | well.. might be a different date for osme... need to figure that out | |
| 20:58 | we got 2 more minutes meeting time, I will start to look for next date and time while you ponder | |
| 20:58 | ashimema | I like July 26th |
| 20:58 | but I'm game for either realy | |
| 20:59 | cait | August 14 |
| 20:59 | 13 UTC? | |
| 20:59 | I'll aim for july 26th preparing something this weekend | |
| 21:00 | rangi | sounds good |
| 21:00 | cait | at least writing a draft for the mailing list mail :) |
| 21:00 | ashimema | +1 |
| 21:00 | rangi | if there is a community 'official' event it's easier for us to get our bosses to let us work on it :) |
| 21:00 | cait | ok, ending soon |
| 21:01 | I'll try to make it look most official then :) | |
| 21:01 | #topic Next meeting | |
| 21:01 | Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 21:01 | cait | wah kohacon |
| 21:01 | #topic Update on KohaCon | |
| 21:01 | Topic for #koha is now Update on KohaCon (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 21:01 | cait | sorry |
| 21:01 | rangi? | |
| 21:01 | wahanui | rangi is a pretty big get |
| 21:01 | thd | :) |
| 21:01 | bag | kohacon++ |
| 21:01 | cait | i forgot to refresh the wiki page.. sorr |
| 21:02 | Charles_Quain: still awake too? | |
| 21:02 | rangi | right, so the site is in softlaunch, 2020.kohacon.org it will be launch launched in a week or 2 |
| 21:02 | Charles_Quain | Yep |
| 21:02 | bag | cait - it’s only 1400 |
| 21:02 | ;) | |
| 21:02 | rangi | we have a venue booked, the national library of NZ |
| 21:02 | cait | #info KohaCon website will be officially launched in a week or 2 |
| 21:03 | rangi | shortly we will be asking for volunteers to be part of the programme committee |
| 21:03 | cait | #info venue is the National Library of NZ |
| 21:03 | Charles_Quain | We have the (strangely precise) amount of €2386 left over from KohaCon19. Looking for ideas on how to use it to best advantage |
| 21:03 | rangi | we are going to do the 3+1+1+2 format this time |
| 21:03 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 21:03 | cait | #info Asking volunteers on the programme committee soon |
| 21:03 | rangi | 3 days talks, 1 day culture, 1 day workshops, 2 days working together |
| 21:03 | ashimema | 3,1,1,2? |
| 21:04 | ta | |
| 21:04 | rangi | trying to get the best of both worlds the workshops from kohacon19 and the hackfest from kohacon18 :) |
| 21:05 | cait | what's first, workshop day or excursion? |
| 21:05 | Charles_Quain | so tricky to get the balance right |
| 21:05 | ashimema | +1 |
| 21:05 | rangi | excursion |
| 21:05 | bag | Charles_Quain: sponsorship for attending KohaCon20? |
| 21:05 | rangi | we are trying to be tricky |
| 21:05 | bag: thats exactly what i was going to suggest | |
| 21:05 | cait | #info format will be 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 = conference + excursion + workshops + hackfest |
| 21:06 | Charles_Quain | Would it be enough? |
| 21:06 | rangi | Charles_Quain: it could be part |
| 21:06 | bag | like the program committe accepts scholar accplications |
| 21:06 | ashimema | I reckon you have an advantage geographically for such a layout.. it's not as tempting to 'just head home early' |
| 21:06 | bag | sorry for spelling :( |
| 21:06 | rangi | i think it would be good to use to see if can get some irish librarians to come, at least to help |
| 21:06 | bag | great idea |
| 21:07 | Charles_Quain | I'm completely open as to what to do with it. |
| 21:07 | rangi | ashimema: yep, and by putting the workshop after excursion easier to get ppl to not miss it too :) |
| 21:07 | ashimema | indeed |
| 21:08 | rangi | Charles_Quain: 500 euro would cover a weeks accomodation in wellington comfortably |
| 21:08 | Charles_Quain | How would we select a delegate? |
| 21:08 | ashimema | I like the idea of conference money going to conference stuff.. so that ticks my boxes :) |
| 21:08 | rangi | if it was a supplement, it would be for someone who is already committed to go? |
| 21:09 | i havent fully thought this through :) | |
| 21:09 | bag | we could decide on that later - maybe get the committee together and they can figure that out? |
| 21:09 | rangi | but I was going to make it your problem to award the supplements Charles_Quain heheh |
| 21:09 | or at least the kohacon19 team | |
| 21:09 | since you raised it :) | |
| 21:09 | Charles_Quain | It does make sense to use cash from one year to support the next |
| 21:10 | ashimema | something Todd may be helpful with bag? |
| 21:10 | has he any experience in such things | |
| 21:10 | bag | Todd would definitely be on that |
| 21:10 | kathryn | Hello, I have to confess, I've been lurking and can't stay quiet any longer :D |
| 21:10 | Charles_Quain | I'd have to recuse myself from the selection process - I know them all too well! |
| 21:10 | bag | some experince - but he’d do the research to make it fair |
| 21:10 | cait | kathryn: finally! |
| 21:11 | kathryn | I was thinking awards could have priority for speakers and Koha contributors |
| 21:11 | hehe | |
| 21:11 | Charles_Quain | That sounds fair |
| 21:12 | * ashimema | would go along with 'the needy who are willing/wanting to contribute' |
| 21:12 | kathryn | yes that too |
| 21:13 | cait | maybe people can think this over and we come back to that next time with more ideas? |
| 21:13 | rangi | yup |
| 21:13 | another idea, that isnt fully formed too | |
| 21:13 | kathryn | yup! |
| 21:13 | ashimema | +1 |
| 21:13 | cait | #info Discussion on how to use the money raised at KohaCon19 to be continued |
| 21:13 | ashimema | meanwhile I'm sure that money is in a safe account ;) |
| 21:14 | rangi | we are planning to try to get sponsorship from outside the koha support company world |
| 21:14 | Charles_Quain | "Resting in my account" is the phrase |
| 21:14 | rangi | we'd much rather you all use that money to come/send people |
| 21:14 | cait | :) |
| 21:14 | kathryn | your presence, not presents ;) |
| 21:15 | rangi | exactly |
| 21:15 | bag | but I’d still love some Guinness |
| 21:15 | ashimema | :) |
| 21:15 | cait | feel free to #info any of that :) |
| 21:15 | rangi | if you send a person, you get a logo :) |
| 21:15 | so can still have a nice list of logos on the sponsorship page :) | |
| 21:15 | cait | rangi: can I info that? |
| 21:15 | kathryn | that's a cool idea rangi |
| 21:16 | cait | or #idea it |
| 21:16 | rangi | cait: sure why not :) |
| 21:16 | cait | #idea If you send a person, you get a logo (your presence not presents) |
| 21:16 | anything else? | |
| 21:16 | rangi | thats it from me |
| 21:16 | anything from you kathryn ? | |
| 21:17 | kathryn | probably save it for a first conference meeting |
| 21:17 | I have a lot of ideas and reckons | |
| 21:18 | in short, no thanks! | |
| 21:18 | cait | :) |
| 21:18 | bag | we are only 15 months away ;) |
| 21:18 | cait | #topic Next meeting |
| 21:18 | Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC meeting 10 July 2019) | |
| 21:18 | cait | short chance for veto: August 14th (second Wednesday) 13 UTC |
| 21:19 | #info Next meeting: 14 August 2019, 13 UTC | |
| 21:19 | #endmeeting | |
| 21:19 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org | |
| 21:19 | huginn` | Meeting ended Wed Jul 10 21:19:35 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 21:19 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-07-10-20.04.html | |
| 21:19 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]9-07-10-20.04.txt | |
| 21:19 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]10-20.04.log.html | |
| 21:19 | cait | thx all! |
| 21:19 | caroline_catlady | cait++ |
| 21:20 | kathryn | thanks cait and for accepting my late arrival! |
| 21:20 | Charles_Quain | night all. |
| 21:20 | cait | kathryn: you know you don't have to hold back, right? you can always talk here :) |
| 21:20 | ashimema | cait++ |
| 21:20 | thanks | |
| 21:20 | kathryn | yeah I wasn't sure about crashing the meeting after #info ! |
| 21:21 | ashimema | always say hi ;) |
| 21:21 | cait | we don't mind |
| 21:21 | kathryn | thanks :) |
| 21:23 | nearly time for a less-interesting meeting - seeyas! | |
| 21:23 | cait | caroline_catlady: noticed something odd today: https://koha-community.org/manual/19.05/en/html/ |
| 21:24 | says 19.05 in the tiele (and Hello?) but 18.11 at the top | |
| 21:24 | tiele=title | |
| 21:26 | ashimema | meeting script run.. so we should have entries in the calendar and wiki for the next one now |
| 21:26 | have a good one #koha | |
| 21:26 | cait | night :) |
| 21:26 | caroline_crazycatlady joined #koha | |
| 21:27 | caroline_crazycatlady | hotel wifi is crap, I suddenly became crazycatlady! |
| 21:28 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 21:29 | caroline_crazycatlady | currently in beautiful Val-d'Or (in my dad's birth region) training the public library staff https://goo.gl/maps/ngwCXikaeEE5sesAA |
| 21:30 | cait | nice! |
| 21:32 | caroline_crazycatlady | Val d'Or in french means Valley of gold |
| 21:35 | cait | :) |
| 21:38 | night all | |
| 21:53 | davidnind | cait++ |
| 21:56 | cait: I can see what you mean about 18.11 and 19.05, will see if I can figure it out this evening when I get home (unless it gets fixed before then) | |
| 22:08 | irma_ joined #koha | |
| 22:10 | davidnind left #koha | |
| 22:12 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 22:25 | irma__ joined #koha | |
| 22:28 | inlibro joined #koha | |
| 22:44 | caroline_crazycatlady | does anybody actually use the "Allow changes from" drop-down when creating a list? Especially the "Nobody" option makes absolutely no sense to me |
| 22:53 | lukeG joined #koha | |
| 23:24 | thd | rangi: Do you have a moment to give me an email address? |
| 23:28 | inlibro joined #koha |
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