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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:43 | kidclamp | Jajm++ |
| 00:51 | mtompset | Greetings again, #koha. Back at keyboard. :) |
| 00:52 | Greetings, CrispyBran tcohen kidclamp cait rangi ashimema | |
| 01:02 | * kidclamp | waves and goes |
| 01:05 | StarJammer joined #koha | |
| 01:17 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 01:28 | tcohen | anyone willing to talk about accounts? |
| 01:28 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 01:28 | tcohen | hi alexbuckley |
| 01:31 | mtompset | tcohen, what do you mean accounts? |
| 01:47 | tcohen | hi mtompset, I've been fighting the idea that balance should be automatically normalized (i.e. outstanding credits applied to outstanding debits) and I noticed people actually expect that |
| 01:58 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 02:06 | alexbuckley joined #koha | |
| 03:06 | mtompset | Sorry... got distracted, tcohen. |
| 03:06 | Hmmm.... | |
| 03:09 | what do you mean by automatically normalized? if we have two recorded credits of v1 and v2 and a recorded debit of v3... the balance is v1+v2-v3 (or the negative, I mess signs up frequently) | |
| 03:10 | Are you saying don't record the debit of v3, but reduce the credit of v1 and v2 by an appropriate break down of v3? | |
| 03:10 | so we have charge amount, and outstanding amount, and the outstanding amount represents the applied debits inclusive? | |
| 03:12 | tcohen | what I'm saying is that outstanding credits are expected to be applied to outstanding debits, no matter if they complete the amount outstanding or not |
| 03:12 | the question is should this be automatically done | |
| 03:14 | mtompset | well, how will it be stored? |
| 03:15 | If we are storing every transaction and type... the application is not done at entry time. | |
| 03:15 | And we shouldn't do it at entry time... too easy to mess up data. every transaction should be recorded. | |
| 03:16 | But if you wish to build a report table from it... then it should be applied at build time. | |
| 03:17 | tcohen | hey |
| 03:17 | you are mixing stuffs | |
| 03:17 | every debit/credit added is recorded as an account line | |
| 03:17 | mtompset | then perhaps I am not understanding. |
| 03:17 | Yes... account line isn't changing. | |
| 03:17 | tcohen | and every thing that is applied, is logged as an account offset |
| 03:17 | mtompset | shouldn't change. |
| 03:17 | hmm... let me review the schema. | |
| 03:18 | tcohen | no |
| 03:18 | dont do it | |
| 03:18 | if you add two manual credits | |
| 03:18 | you have two accountlines | |
| 03:18 | and each accountline creation is also logged as an account offset (of type 'manual_credit' or the like) | |
| 03:19 | you create a debit, then a third acccount line and an account offset | |
| 03:19 | then if you apply a credit to pay up (to some extent maybe) the debit | |
| 03:19 | mtompset | Yes, but the problem is account offset gets ugly fast. |
| 03:19 | tcohen | an offset is recorded |
| 03:19 | mtompset | if debit > credit 1. |
| 03:19 | tcohen | well, that's not actually the problem |
| 03:20 | mtompset | What's the problem? |
| 03:20 | wahanui | i guess the problem is it has several code issues |
| 03:20 | tcohen | you can read the tests for Koha::Account::Line->apply |
| 03:20 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 03:20 | tcohen | and you will see how it actually works :-d |
| 03:20 | mtompset | just a moment. |
| 03:20 | tcohen | the problem is |
| 03:20 | if you have an outstanding credit for some reason | |
| 03:21 | and you get charged someting (a new debit) | |
| 03:21 | do you expect the credit to be applied automatically? | |
| 03:21 | to reduce the outstanding debit amount? | |
| 03:22 | mtompset | okay... can we make this sign based, rather than credit/debit, because it's confusing in my brain for some reason. |
| 03:22 | tcohen | owe and pay maybe? |
| 03:22 | mtompset | credit is good for patron, bad for library -- negative? |
| 03:23 | tcohen | credit is green, debit is red |
| 03:24 | mtompset | depends on who if you are the one owing or the one to whom it is owed. ;) |
| 03:24 | but let's say owe and pay. | |
| 03:24 | patron owes (-), patron pays (+) | |
| 03:25 | so account line is -5, -5, +15... and a -5 comes along? | |
| 03:26 | I would expect balance = 0 | |
| 03:26 | tcohen | right |
| 03:26 | mtompset | but account offset only would have one entry, right? |
| 03:26 | tcohen | of course |
| 03:27 | no | |
| 03:27 | you don't understand what account offsets are I think | |
| 03:27 | but the matter is not about offsets at all | |
| 03:27 | actually | |
| 03:28 | I mean, a side effect of applying a credit to a debit is that some offset(s) will be recorded | |
| 03:28 | mtompset | nope, I guess I don't... I don't even understand why we have them. |
| 03:28 | tcohen | but the important part of it is |
| 03:28 | mtompset | Right, but the problem is the number of credits and debits don't match. |
| 03:28 | tcohen | that the (patron's) debt still has an amount outstanding |
| 03:28 | even when they have credit on their account | |
| 03:28 | mtompset | so offset as a -5 +15 reference. |
| 03:29 | tcohen | you need to 'apply the credit to the debt' |
| 03:29 | mtompset: why mention offsets again :-D | |
| 03:29 | mtompset | because the +15 needs to get SPLIT. |
| 03:29 | tcohen | but that's not offsets per-se |
| 03:30 | that's applying the credit, to reduce the amount outstanding on the debit line | |
| 03:30 | no matter if the action is logged in the account_offsets table | |
| 03:30 | right? | |
| 03:30 | applying a credit means reducing the amount outstanding on the debit it was applied to | |
| 03:31 | and reducing the amount outstanding (modulo the sign) of the credit too (i.e. you don't have the credit available for applying anymore) | |
| 03:31 | mtompset | OOOOO! I just noticed that in the account lines. |
| 03:31 | someone mixed logic. | |
| 03:32 | tcohen | what |
| 03:32 | are | |
| 03:32 | you | |
| 03:32 | talking | |
| 03:32 | about | |
| 03:33 | mtompset | What value is in the amount outstanding column? |
| 03:33 | The amount of the transaction left? | |
| 03:34 | tcohen | keep the word 'transaction' out |
| 03:34 | mtompset | account line. |
| 03:34 | so -5, -5, +15, -5 | |
| 03:34 | -5 account line is ao: -5 | |
| 03:34 | tcohen | that's 4 account lines |
| 03:34 | mtompset | -5 account line is ao: -5 |
| 03:34 | wahanui | i already had it that way, mtompset. |
| 03:35 | tcohen | offsets again… |
| 03:35 | mtompset | no amount outstanding. |
| 03:35 | tcohen | let me be the one presenting the example |
| 03:35 | mtompset | or is it -5, -5 then -5, and both -10? |
| 03:35 | okay... | |
| 03:35 | tcohen | you are mixing concepts and it gets messy |
| 03:35 | say you get fined | |
| 03:36 | by a mad librarian | |
| 03:36 | mtompset | (with that many cats, wouldn't they be?) |
| 03:36 | tcohen | in Koha, the patron representing you |
| 03:36 | will have 1 accountline | |
| 03:36 | with two relevant values | |
| 03:37 | amount=5 (the fine is 5 canadian dollars) | |
| 03:37 | and amountoutstanding=5 (you owe the fine in full) | |
| 03:37 | mtompset | so far so good. |
| 03:37 | (except for the fines) | |
| 03:37 | tcohen | you notice you have a 2 canadian dollars (coin?) |
| 03:37 | in your pocket | |
| 03:38 | mtompset | (gotta love toonies) |
| 03:38 | tcohen | then you say: I would like to add this two dollars to my account as a credit |
| 03:38 | let me finish | |
| 03:39 | then the librarian adds a manual credit of 2 | |
| 03:39 | that's represented internally as -2, but leave alone data models | |
| 03:39 | you have 2 on your side | |
| 03:39 | at that point a new account line was created | |
| 03:40 | mtompset | sure... so, what are the 4 account line values? |
| 03:40 | tcohen | amount=-2 |
| 03:40 | amountoutstanding=-2 | |
| 03:40 | so far we only have 2 accountlines, not 4 | |
| 03:40 | 1 for the fine, 1 for the manual credit you requested to be added | |
| 03:40 | mtompset | right... but we have 4 values amount and amount outstanding for 2 lines. |
| 03:41 | tcohen | two accountline |
| 03:41 | s | |
| 03:41 | mtompset | so it is 5,5 and -2,-2 |
| 03:41 | tcohen | two account lines |
| 03:41 | mtompset | (don't understand why, but okay) |
| 03:41 | tcohen | amount is the original amount of the account line |
| 03:41 | mtompset | Yes. |
| 03:41 | tcohen | so |
| 03:42 | your account balance | |
| 03:42 | mtompset | hence 5,x and -2,y |
| 03:42 | tcohen | is the difference between what you owe and the credit you have |
| 03:42 | what you owe, you read it on the fine accountline, in the amountoutstanding column | |
| 03:42 | and likewise for the credit | |
| 03:43 | lets say you use that 2 dollars credit, to cancel a part of the fine | |
| 03:43 | then the amount outstanding for the fine, will be set to 3 | |
| 03:43 | and the amount outstanding for the credit will be set to 0 | |
| 03:43 | so, you have no outstanding credit | |
| 03:44 | and you have an outstanding debt of 3 canadian dollars | |
| 03:44 | mtompset | okay... 5,3 and -2,0 got it. |
| 03:44 | tcohen | the 'amount' is not that important, it is just tracking the 'original amount' |
| 03:44 | mtompset | that would be what I expected as soon as the -2 was entered. |
| 03:45 | tcohen | ok, that's the answer to my question about your opinion |
| 03:45 | hehe | |
| 03:45 | it took a while | |
| 03:45 | mtompset | yes, but sum(amount) should equal sum(amount outstanding) |
| 03:45 | tcohen | now imagine you have several 'debts' |
| 03:45 | you lost a book, a processing fee was charged too, some fine, and then something else | |
| 03:46 | how do you apply the credit? | |
| 03:48 | mtompset | so (A1,AO1)...(An,AOn) in account lines.... some credits, some debits... |
| 03:48 | and then n+1 comes along.... | |
| 03:50 | This application is really better suited to a cronjob. ;) | |
| 03:51 | find the smallest remaining debit, apply as much of credit as possible. | |
| 03:51 | If excess, repeat process. | |
| 03:52 | It doesn't have to apply in order. :) | |
| 03:52 | tcohen | bug https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]_bug.cgi?id=21896 |
| 03:52 | huginn | Bug 21896: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Add Koha::Account::normalize_balance |
| 03:52 | tcohen | the method is sumple |
| 03:52 | simple indeed | |
| 03:52 | the question is when and how it should be applied | |
| 03:52 | hehe | |
| 03:53 | I thought about the cronjob too | |
| 03:55 | mtompset | The other possibility would be triggering it after an accountline is written. |
| 03:58 | tcohen | yes, I think that's how it should be implemented |
| 03:59 | mtompset | I'm looking at your code... |
| 03:59 | I'm confused about it. | |
| 04:00 | your tests make sense. that's not the issue. | |
| 04:00 | The issue is the normalize function itself. | |
| 04:00 | what does outstanding_credits return? | |
| 04:01 | You keep going to ->next. | |
| 04:01 | But what if the debit didn't fully eliminate the credit? | |
| 04:01 | tcohen | outstanding_credits returns all the accountlines (for the patron) that represent credits, and still have some amount outstanding |
| 04:02 | mtompset | you would need to call normalize again to actually hopefully normalize it. |
| 04:02 | tcohen | no |
| 04:03 | $credit->apply({ debits => $self->outstanding_debits }); | |
| 04:03 | mtompset | You only set outstanding credits once. |
| 04:03 | tcohen | it is applied to all outstanding debits |
| 04:03 | that single credit | |
| 04:03 | in a single call | |
| 04:03 | there are two options | |
| 04:04 | mtompset | so the entire debit is used up? |
| 04:04 | tcohen | it pays all outstanding debits or it doesn't |
| 04:04 | it tries to... | |
| 04:04 | if it pays everything, then when outstanding_debits is 'refreshed' | |
| 04:04 | mtompset | that outstanding debt drops off. |
| 04:04 | tcohen | the total_outstanding amount will be 0 |
| 04:05 | then it quits the looop, right | |
| 04:05 | if it doesn't, it moves to $credits->next | |
| 04:05 | mtompset | let me think of a test case which breaks this... |
| 04:05 | because I think one exists. | |
| 04:06 | tcohen | add a followup patch with a regression test then |
| 04:06 | mtompset | od = (D1..Dn), oc = (C1..Cn) |
| 04:06 | credit is C1... | |
| 04:07 | ahhh.... | |
| 04:07 | od is passed. | |
| 04:08 | tcohen | if the mad librarian adds fees fast enough, it can break it |
| 04:08 | he | |
| 04:08 | but they will need to do it for an infinite time | |
| 04:08 | to keep the loop running | |
| 04:09 | mtompset | so as much od is used up to cover C1... if all od is used up... it finishes... and the next on credits is irrelevant... |
| 04:09 | tcohen | and another librarian adding infinite credits |
| 04:09 | mtompset | if not all od is used up, then c1 must be paid off, so next is okay. |
| 04:09 | tcohen | is irrelevant, but the while condition (outstanding_debits.total_outstanding > 0) will make it exit |
| 04:09 | mtompset | I was wrong... |
| 04:10 | just had to think it out. | |
| 04:10 | it's impossible to get back to a remaining balance AND the same credit not paid off. | |
| 04:10 | tcohen | it happens to me, when it is related to signs in the accounts code |
| 04:11 | mtompset | because you passed ALL the ods. |
| 04:11 | tcohen | I hate storing negative values, and summing them up in the code |
| 04:11 | I prefer to notice the minus sign when reading the code | |
| 04:11 | i.e. debit - credit | |
| 04:11 | instead of debit+ credit | |
| 04:13 | ok, too late | |
| 04:13 | bedtime | |
| 04:13 | thanks mtompset | |
| 04:14 | mtompset | BTW, he forgot to put "Signed off" in the footer of the details. |
| 04:15 | tcohen | he didn't manage to |
| 04:15 | hi tried, a couple times | |
| 04:15 | his devbox was causing him some trouble I think | |
| 04:15 | if you sign it, you can add his | |
| 04:15 | :-D | |
| 04:16 | mtompset | I have some other project to get done before bed. No promises. ;) |
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| 06:49 | ashimema | I'll look at this today tcohen |
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| 07:40 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:40 | wahanui | hey, reiveune |
| 07:41 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 07:41 | fridolin | hi |
| 07:41 | wahanui | bidet, fridolin |
| 07:47 | ashimema | Mornin' #koha |
| 07:56 | calire | hi ashimema |
| 07:58 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 07:59 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 08:00 | Archie^ | good morning Koha! |
| 08:08 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 08:10 | cait joined #koha | |
| 08:10 | tuxayo | Hi Koha |
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| 09:56 | matts | Hey everyone ! |
| 09:58 | Did somebody manage to configure Shibboleth on both OPAC and Intranet ? | |
| 09:58 | Not on Koha's side, but on the SP's side | |
| 09:59 | Currently, the example provided in the Koha documentation is only about the OPAC | |
| 09:59 | ( https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]i/Shibboleth2.xml ) | |
| 10:16 | AndrewIsh joined #koha | |
| 10:21 | kohaputti joined #koha | |
| 10:24 | dersmon joined #koha | |
| 10:24 | dersmon | hi |
| 10:24 | wahanui | niihau, dersmon |
| 10:34 | ashimema | hey matts |
| 10:34 | I'm sure we have.. but I tend to leave that to our infrastructure guys these days | |
| 10:34 | I'll try and dig out an example and update the wiki | |
| 10:34 | matts | ashimema, that would be awesome ! |
| 10:36 | ashimema | yup.. we have three customers running that way and Interleaf has another few (we support Interleaf for their koha hosting) |
| 10:36 | * ashimema | is digging out stuff for you now |
| 10:37 | dersmon | quick question: searching "a" takes 1+ minutes for 1.2 million bibliographic records, is that within an expected range (using zebra)? |
| 10:39 | 8 cores, 8gb ram | |
| 10:44 | ashimema | matts.. I've updated the example Shibboleth2.xml file on the wiki.. it's the 'ApplicationOverride' section that's important |
| 10:44 | I'll go and add some detail on the apache side on the linking page now too | |
| 10:47 | matts | ashimema++ |
| 10:47 | Thank you | |
| 10:47 | ashimema | there's not much there.. but hopefully it's enough to help? |
| 10:47 | do shout if you need any more | |
| 10:48 | matts | ashimema, my infrastructure will shout if it's not enough :) |
| 10:48 | guy* | |
| 10:48 | ashimema | hehe |
| 10:50 | fridolin | dersmon: depends a lot on how many results you display ? and do you use facets via Zebra ? |
| 10:50 | syspref FacetMaxCount will impact a lot | |
| 10:51 | its mostly not searching that is long but more displaying the results | |
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| 10:51 | cait | dersmon: make sure you are NOT using zebra facets |
| 10:51 | fridolin | its in koha-conf.xml |
| 10:51 | cait | they have a severe performance isssue for bigger collections |
| 10:52 | we had to turn them off, it was not good | |
| 10:52 | yes, it's a setting in koha-conf.xml | |
| 10:52 | should not require a reindex i think as it should fall back to the old code | |
| 10:54 | dersmon | facet max count is 20 |
| 10:54 | i see | |
| 10:54 | i'll try it out :) | |
| 10:55 | cait | maybe restart zebrasrv.. not sure if it's needed |
| 10:55 | dersmon | are you still using zebra or is switching to elastic search recommended? |
| 10:56 | cait | you will be using both in parallel atm, so yu can try it and switch back and forth |
| 10:56 | but i think most libraries using in production are using it with some additional devs that make their way in now | |
| 10:56 | 18.11 has some more bigger patches/changes | |
| 11:02 | ashimema: do you have some time to look at bug 21895 by chance? | |
| 11:02 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=21895 blocker, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , translations fail on upgrade to 18.11.00 (package installation) |
| 11:02 | cait | it already got a sign off form Mirko |
| 11:07 | * ashimema | looks |
| 11:10 | ashimema | looks sane to me.. I'll give it a quick test and then PQA so long as it works |
| 11:14 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 11:30 | dersmon | <use_zebra_facets>0</use_zebra_facets>, right? |
| 11:31 | running sudo koha-zebra --restart <instance name> does not seem to do the trick | |
| 11:31 | so maybe i have to reindex? | |
| 11:41 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #120: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_17.11_D8/120/ |
| 11:48 | endeto joined #koha | |
| 11:49 | endeto | Hi everybody can anyone has a solution to access a pc with its hostname |
| 11:49 | I don't have a static ip | |
| 11:59 | ashimema | PQA both cait |
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| 12:26 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 12:26 | oleonard | Hi #koha |
| 12:26 | calire | hi oleonard |
| 12:26 | wahanui | hi oleopard |
| 12:32 | marcelr joined #koha | |
| 12:32 | marcelr | hi #koha |
| 12:33 | kidclamp | hi marcelr |
| 12:34 | marcelr | o/ |
| 12:43 | cait | dersmon: try a zebra restart first |
| 12:43 | ashimema++ thx!! | |
| 12:44 | ashimema | pleasure |
| 12:46 | Archie^ joined #koha | |
| 12:54 | tcohen | morning |
| 12:54 | marcelr | hi tcohen |
| 12:55 | tcohen | dersmon: changing use_zebra_faces changes get into action when you restart memcached |
| 12:55 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 12:55 | tcohen | hi marcelr |
| 12:58 | kidclamp | https://koha-community.org/koha-18-11-release/ |
| 12:58 | ashimema | kidclamp++ |
| 12:58 | woop woop | |
| 12:58 | cait | confetti! |
| 12:58 | wahanui | o/`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'` |
| 12:58 | cait | confetti! |
| 12:58 | wahanui | o/`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'` |
| 12:59 | ashimema | koha++ |
| 13:00 | JesseM joined #koha | |
| 13:00 | calire | kidclamp++ |
| 13:00 | matts | \o/ |
| 13:01 | oleonard | Congrats kidclamp |
| 13:04 | marcelr | kidclamp++ # you made it |
| 13:04 | cait | kidclamp++ |
| 13:04 | koha_community++ | |
| 13:06 | marcelr | even posted on Thursday November 29th, 2018 ! |
| 13:17 | cait | and as always... best release ever :) |
| 13:17 | ashimema | they do seem to be getting better and better |
| 13:18 | cait | jajm++ late night fix? :) |
| 13:20 | tcohen | jajm++ |
| 13:21 | I bet he was drinking alcohol | |
| 13:21 | in a bar | |
| 13:21 | jajm | cait, yep, with a lot of caffeine :) |
| 13:21 | tcohen | and noticed |
| 13:21 | haha | |
| 13:28 | kidclamp | jajm++ |
| 13:28 | tcohen | kidclamp++ |
| 13:28 | koha++ | |
| 13:29 | Joubu++ | |
| 13:34 | chris1 left #koha | |
| 13:35 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #121: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_17.11_D8/121/ |
| 13:36 | Freddy_Enrique joined #koha | |
| 13:43 | cait | drojf++ |
| 13:44 | kidclamp++ wiki update :) | |
| 13:44 | kidclamp | heh |
| 13:52 | ashimema | ? |
| 13:52 | * ashimema | wonders what wiki update has happened now |
| 13:52 | cait | he added a note to release maintainer notes about updating the release tools repo :) |
| 13:52 | ashimema | oh.. cool |
| 13:52 | kidclamp++ | |
| 13:52 | * ashimema | blushes.. oops I caused that |
| 13:53 | ashimema | anyone fancy a fast straigh to QA on bug 21900 ? |
| 13:53 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=21900 major, P5 - low, ---, andrew.isherwood, ASSIGNED , intranet_catalog_biblio_enhancements_toolbar_button plugin hook broken |
| 13:53 | ashimema | seems a bug was introduced during the push of bug 20968 to master ;) |
| 13:54 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=20968 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, andrew.isherwood, Pushed to Stable , Plugins: Add hooks to enable plugin integration into catalogue |
| 13:55 | * ashimema | looks at cait or kidclamp in the hopes one of them will catch that one ;) |
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| 13:56 | Freddy_Enrique | Good morning guys, how are you all? :) |
| 13:56 | I want to ask something concerning the z39.50 | |
| 13:56 | I have the following: https://snag.gy/mbI3VP.jpg | |
| 13:57 | But I can't seem to import any bib record from that database. Any reasons why? | |
| 13:58 | ashimema | I tend to check firewalls when z doesn't work.. sometimes outgoing ports need to be opened |
| 13:59 | oleonard | Freddy_Enrique: Do you get an error message when you try to search it? |
| 14:02 | Freddy_Enrique | Just a.. no result window |
| 14:02 | https://snag.gy/7mPCEp.jpg | |
| 14:02 | cait | khall: around by chance? |
| 14:03 | Freddy_Enrique | ashimema: oh... how could I check if an especific port is opened? |
| 14:03 | ashimema | er |
| 14:03 | Freddy_Enrique | But the info I put there is ok right? |
| 14:03 | oleonard | Freddy_Enrique: Is it correct that you are trying to connect to an SRU server, not a Z39.50 server? |
| 14:04 | ashimema | now that really depends on your OS and Firewall I'm afraid |
| 14:04 | SRU is usually on standard HTTP ports so it hopefully isn't an issue | |
| 14:04 | * ashimema | rushes into a meeting |
| 14:05 | Freddy_Enrique | oleonard: ? |
| 14:05 | wait... z39.50 and SRU... | |
| 14:06 | cait | i have questions about the new library groups faeature... |
| 14:09 | Freddy_Enrique | Thanks ashimema |
| 14:10 | caroline joined #koha | |
| 14:10 | caroline | good morning! |
| 14:15 | Freddy_Enrique | Yo caroline |
| 14:19 | cait | mornign caroline! |
| 14:19 | do you have used the new library group feature by chance? | |
| 14:20 | i am trying to write something up for a multi-branch setup and how you can see/not see others data | |
| 14:20 | caroline | no, but I documented it |
| 14:20 | cait | rtfm :D |
| 14:20 | mostly wondering if it works better than indybranches | |
| 14:21 | caroline | ok so libraries from the group can see the users (for example) from the libraries from the same group but not from other groups? |
| 14:21 | cait | so those users can only checkout checkin within their group? |
| 14:21 | requirement here is 'can use any library' | |
| 14:23 | lukeG joined #koha | |
| 14:28 | caroline | independentbranches would limit to 1 library, whereas with groups, you would be able to limit to the group (that's my understanding) |
| 14:39 | cait | hm yeah |
| 14:40 | some of the featuers i would want are depending on independentbranches | |
| 14:40 | like superserials permission (to prevent editing other's subscriptions) | |
| 14:40 | but i don't want independentbraches... because all patrons can go anywhere | |
| 14:40 | also editing only your own items depends on indybranches too... | |
| 14:45 | caroline | So you want to limit staff access to other libraries records and users, but patrons can go to any library? |
| 14:46 | cait | no |
| 14:46 | limit everything but patrons :) | |
| 14:46 | bit i think that won't work | |
| 14:46 | maybe in acq, acq looks doable too | |
| 15:11 | why can i search baskets i can#t access... and didn't this used to work? | |
| 15:11 | koha-jenkins | Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #122: STILL UNSTABLE in 28 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_17.11_D8/122/ |
| 15:12 | cait | fridolin: bug 21282 is a bad bug |
| 15:12 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=21282 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Ordered/spent lists should use prices including tax for calculations |
| 15:13 | fridolin | cait: oki, can you test it on 17.11.x please ? |
| 15:13 | i'm afraid of impacts | |
| 15:13 | cait | the fields in the db are all there in 17.11 |
| 15:13 | i can try, but not right away | |
| 15:14 | i think it shoudl work well because db structure is ok | |
| 15:14 | fridolin | ah ok that shoulb de enought |
| 15:14 | i push it and you may test ;) | |
| 15:14 | cait | heh ok |
| 15:14 | if it conflicts i will sure have another look | |
| 15:17 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 15:33 | fridolin | jenkins should be clean now, i reverted the selenium test |
| 15:41 | AndrewIsh joined #koha | |
| 15:45 | cait left #koha | |
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| 15:56 | koha-jenkins | Yippee, build fixed! |
| 15:56 | Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #123: FIXED in 28 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]oha_17.11_D8/123/ | |
| 15:59 | fridolin | yeeeeeeeeeeeees |
| 15:59 | see u | |
| 15:59 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 16:06 | * caroline | hates configuring labels... |
| 16:09 | tuxayo | caroline: hi :) Few month ago, we've also got some tricky cases. In the end we weren't sure why things was working as expected... That's still dark magic to me. |
| 16:10 | caroline | I can't seem to center the barcode ... https://snag.gy/gqxtuf.jpg |
| 16:13 | tuxayo | caroline: oh at least you are seeing it, lucky you :P |
| 16:13 | caroline | hehe! :) |
| 16:14 | tuxayo | Luckily my colleague wasn't fighting with centering once the barcode finally showed up. |
| 16:18 | caroline: BTW, our discussion about the script to make the replacements for fr_FR => fr_CA was in a perfect timing. | |
| 16:18 | The next day, we had a customer contacting us because they are working on completing the nl_NL translation. And we have another one working since few month on nl_BE | |
| 16:18 | So we are trying to make them work together like fr_FR and fr_CA :D | |
| 16:18 | Have you had the occassion to take the temperature about publishing the script? | |
| 16:19 | caroline | oh no, let me check |
| 16:22 | he says it's copied from another script that bernardo sent me | |
| 16:23 | cait joined #koha | |
| 16:23 | laurence left #koha | |
| 16:23 | caroline | called po-reuse.pl |
| 16:24 | we'll have to get back into it for 18.11 so I'll keep you updated | |
| 16:26 | ashimema | interesting.. I'd be interested in such a script too |
| 16:26 | for en => en_GB | |
| 16:28 | tuxayo | caroline: great! thanks :) Was it in the release tools? Or in the main repo? |
| 16:29 | caroline | getting bug 17015 to pass qa would make a great bribe for him ;) |
| 16:29 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=17015 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, charles.farmer, Needs Signoff , New Koha Calendar |
| 16:29 | caroline | tuxayo: no idea, he sent it to me by email |
| 16:29 | do you want me to forward it? | |
| 16:31 | tuxayo | caroline: yay! Maybe sent it in the koha-translate mailing list? |
| 16:31 | caroline | I'm talking about the po-reuse script from bernardo, not the fr-FR to fr-CA script |
| 16:32 | tuxayo | caroline: I though it was the same thing. |
| 16:32 | caroline | the latter is adapted from the former |
| 16:33 | po-reuse fills the untranslated string with translated strings from another file | |
| 16:33 | tuxayo | ashimema: The english locales could maybe cheat: only translate on Pootle strings that uses word that should be diffrent from en_US. Then the visual result will be the same. As Koha fallsback to en_US when translation is missing. |
| 16:33 | Or maybe it's more tedious actually | |
| 16:34 | caroline | so if fr-FR is at 100% and fr-CA at 80%, we can copy the fr-FR strings into the missing 20%, but it doesn't change the words |
| 16:34 | so we have some very french sounding words ;) | |
| 16:36 | ashimema | interesting |
| 16:39 | oleonard about? | |
| 16:39 | do we use bootstrap tooltips in the staff client anywhere? | |
| 16:42 | caroline | almost there, but now I'm missing words ... T_T https://snag.gy/ZszoPd.jpg |
| 16:45 | tuxayo | caroline: So it allows you to get the missing strings from fr_FR without overwriting the strings that you already have (thus preserving the fr_CA specificities). So you have to search from fr_FR specific words and replace them right? |
| 16:46 | caroline | tuxayo: yes exactly |
| 16:49 | Victory! I'm gonna cry https://snag.gy/skxTY0.jpg | |
| 16:58 | cait | looks nice! |
| 17:02 | Vero joined #koha | |
| 17:02 | Vero | How to migrate fields to fixed length elements, example From Excel how field 008 is handled to pass it to marcedit |
| 17:16 | tuxayo | caroline: congrats! :D |
| 17:22 | What are the differences between po-reuse and your fr-FR to fr-CA script ? | |
| 17:24 | caroline | tuxayo: I don't know the specifics, since I'm not the one who coded it, but I submitted a list of terms to be replaced. So instead of copying fr-FR strings into fr-CA unstranslated strings, it copies while replacing France-specific terms with Quebec/Canada-specific ones |
| 17:24 | tuxayo | caroline: this is great :) |
| 17:25 | caroline | what is long and tedious is going through the translations to find the terms to be changed |
| 17:26 | and also dealing with articles | |
| 17:26 | I don't know if NL would have that problem | |
| 17:27 | tuxayo | caroline: «find the terms to be changed» I don't get it, do you have examples? |
| 17:27 | «dealing with articles» like word gender change between fr_FR and fr_CA? | |
| 17:29 | CrispyBran joined #koha | |
| 17:30 | CrispyBran | @seen oleonard |
| 17:30 | huginn | CrispyBran: oleonard was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 26 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <oleonard> Freddy_Enrique: Is it correct that you are trying to connect to an SRU server, not a Z39.50 server? |
| 17:30 | caroline | tuxayo: at first I thought it would be only some library science terms that would be changed (like désherbage vs élagage), but while looking at the po files, I noticed a lot of words are not used here (like contrôler which means verify in fr-FR but here it means to control) |
| 17:31 | CrispyBran | @seen tcohen |
| 17:31 | huginn | CrispyBran: tcohen was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 1 minute, and 53 seconds ago: <tcohen> Joubu++ |
| 17:31 | tcohen | hi |
| 17:31 | wahanui | que tal, tcohen |
| 17:31 | CrispyBran | @seen kidclamp |
| 17:31 | huginn | CrispyBran: kidclamp was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 46 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <kidclamp> heh |
| 17:31 | tcohen | @seen CrispyBran |
| 17:31 | huginn | tcohen: CrispyBran was last seen in #koha 8 seconds ago: <CrispyBran> @seen kidclamp |
| 17:31 | tcohen | @seen @seen |
| 17:31 | huginn | tcohen: I have not seen @seen. |
| 17:31 | tcohen | hola CrispyBran |
| 17:31 | CrispyBran | howdy |
| 17:32 | caroline | tuxayo: re:articles, yes gender or elisions. Like une fiche vs un dossier, un quitus vs une quittance, le plugin vs l'extension |
| 17:33 | tuxayo: and if it's gender, then all the adjectives have to be changed too @_@ | |
| 17:34 | tuxayo | :O |
| 17:34 | caroline | that is not dealt with automatically |
| 17:35 | tuxayo | caroline: oh I see, thanks for the details, I'll keep digging into this topic and write some doc to help our Dutch speakers (and other language with varieties) to share work. |
| 17:42 | caroline: blessed be the french language for having gender for objects and concepts ^^" | |
| 17:42 | caroline | tuxayo: at least we only have two ;) |
| 17:43 | tuxayo | Oh deer🦌, there can be more?! |
| 17:44 | caroline | German has three |
| 17:44 | masc, fem and neutral | |
| 17:46 | cait | caroline++ :) |
| 17:47 | caroline | cait: can you confirm, in german, the moon is masc and the sun is fem? |
| 17:47 | cait | die Sonne, der Mond, correct :) |
| 17:47 | i tihnk just the opposite from french? | |
| 17:47 | caroline | yes! |
| 17:47 | My brain cannot get around the fact that the moon is masculin XD | |
| 17:48 | cait | man on the moon... |
| 17:48 | i tihnkin japanese there is a hare on the moon tsuki no usagi | |
| 17:49 | caroline | yes the rabbit making mochi |
| 17:49 | tuxayo | he he. |
| 17:49 | Bye all, gotta go | |
| 17:49 | o/ | |
| 17:49 | cait | :) |
| 17:49 | mmmh mochi | |
| 17:58 | CrispyBran | Is anyone able to get the Limit patron data access by group feature in the Library groups to work? I can only get the view_borrower_infos_from_any_libraries preference in individual accounts to work, but nothing seems to happen with the switch in Library groups. |
| 18:13 | barton | hey, is anyone else getting timeouts on https://bugs.koha-community.org ? I've been seeing this for a couple of days. |
| 18:13 | got '504 Gateway Time-out | |
| 18:13 | kidclamp | I get them every so often barton |
| 18:13 | CrispyBran | Not here |
| 18:14 | barton | yeah, it's intermittent for me. |
| 18:21 | cait | CrispyBran: haven't tried it yet, but i remember there was some kind of trick to the hierarchies |
| 18:21 | khall: ? | |
| 18:22 | ashimema | I had a few this morning barton , but none since |
| 18:22 | khall | CrispyBran: file a ticket for that. Ask if we can have an educator make a video on how to use it for everyone to share! |
| 18:57 | caroline joined #koha | |
| 19:03 | Freddy_Enrique left #koha | |
| 19:48 | cait | :) |
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| 20:14 | CrispyBran | bug 21906 |
| 20:14 | huginn | Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=21906 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , WHERE clause doesn't like % in CONCAT |
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| 21:09 | reiveune | bye |
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| 21:14 | pastebot | "crispybran" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "SELECT counts,itemnumber,bibli" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/193 |
| 21:19 | CrispyBran | See ^^ |
| 21:20 | Any idea why "Value" is processed as NULL? If I hard code a value, it works. | |
| 21:24 | caroline | CrispyBran: what is this looking for? I'm trying it in my system, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to put in as value |
| 21:28 | CrispyBran | It is part of a weeding report I am trying to update. This piece finds all old issues that have circed between two dates that were not added after a certain date. The value is the threshold for the number of circs in that time period. So if I only want to see the items that circed 2 times or less, I would enter 2. |
| 21:31 | cait | and you left it empty? |
| 21:39 | CrispyBran | no. I am leaving the call number empty. |
| 21:41 | That is why. :/ Okay. | |
| 21:49 | cait | I've seen that they sometimes execute, but we had reports about them not downloading then |
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| 22:54 | espen_ | Need some troubleshooting help here. Just updated a koha system to 18.05 then 18.11 and have been left with an issue where issuing has stopped working with a "No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination." |
| 22:55 | I can't see what could have changed and looking at the circulation rules I can't see anything amiss | |
| 22:57 | User is in a Category which has a defined set of rules, item is a Book. Baffled! | |
| 22:58 | There is also a rule for "All" for "Books" | |
| 22:58 | caroline | does it work for other patron category/item type combinations? (ie are all loans blocked, or just that combination?) |
| 23:00 | espen_ | As far as I can tell it doesn't work for any combination. It's a pretty basic setup. Users are "All" or "College Member" and items are "Books" or "DVDs" |
| 23:02 | caroline | Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the rules then and the message is misleading... |
| 23:02 | espen_ | Please confirm issue |
| 23:02 | This user can't check out this item per library circulation policy. | |
| 23:02 | No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination. | |
| 23:03 | Message, in the staff interface is: "Please Confirm Issue/This user can't check out this item per library circulation policy./No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination." | |
| 23:04 | With an option to Confirm "Y/N" | |
| 23:04 | patrons can't self-issue on the terminals. | |
| 23:05 | caroline | hmm... did they add a new section to the rules maybe? Like you have to have a default checkout rule (under the circulation rules table) or something? |
| 23:07 | espen_ | In testing this I've just discovered a secondary problem returning an item: he item has not been returned due to a configuration issue in your system. |
| 23:07 | "Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss." | |
| 23:09 | Err... | |
| 23:11 | caroline | there's a wiki page for that |
| 23:11 | It's a know issue since 18.05 | |
| 23:12 | I think this is the page : https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]uto_increment_fix | |
| 23:14 | espen_ | Not entirely clear what the fix is (yet)! |
| 23:15 | caroline | I don't understand it either... Sorry! |
| 23:16 | I just delete my old_issues, but then, i'm not working in a production environment | |
| 23:16 | espen_ | Ok. That's probably worth a try. |
| 23:17 | We're 'production' but it's a small members only library so we can tolerate hiccups in issuing | |
| 23:18 | My other alternative is to roll back | |
| 23:18 | then i just want to make sure we don't lose any cataloging as that represents real hours of work | |
| 23:20 | I'll have a go at deleting the old_issue | |
| 23:21 | caroline | you have a backup? |
| 23:22 | espen_ | yes. Not convinced this has anything to do with the circulation bug we're seeing but should definitely be eliminated from the pool of suspects! |
| 23:23 | I'll be back for further ideas if it doesn't make a difference! | |
| 23:24 | papa joined #koha | |
| 23:29 | caroline | good luck espen_! |
| 23:29 | good night all! |
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