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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | rocio left #koha | |
| 00:00 | bag | yup easy and straight forward |
| 00:00 | cait | thx bag |
| 00:01 | yep but still annoying :) | |
| 00:01 | bag | :) |
| 00:05 | JoshB joined #koha | |
| 00:08 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 00:08 | eythian | http://www.theguardian.com/boo[…]rst-ebook-artwork |
| 00:15 | http://www.yopi.de/product_ima[…]t-taschenbuch.png <-- cait, specifically | |
| 00:16 | cait | hm? |
| 00:18 | eythian | weirdo German book cover |
| 00:18 | https://twitter.com/OvidPerl/s[…]77959732801069056 <-- we should port Koha to perl6 | |
| 00:19 | cait | i would be quite thankful if someone could fix the web installer again :( |
| 00:19 | Cannot open log file /home/katrin/koha-devU/var/log/updatedatabase_2015-03-18T01:19:22.log: No such file or directory at /home/katrin/kohacloneU/installer/install.pl line 332. | |
| 00:23 | wizzyrea: interesting, itemsearch works in my unimarc installation - must be sth in the data | |
| 00:23 | wizzyrea | cait: can you make that log file writable by your koha user? |
| 00:23 | cait | wizzyrea: it doesn't exist |
| 00:23 | and will be named different every time | |
| 00:23 | i guess i owuld have to change permissions on the directory? | |
| 00:23 | wizzyrea | so make the parent directory writable? |
| 00:24 | or change the logdir in your koha_conf | |
| 00:24 | wahanui | wizzyrea: that doesn't look right |
| 00:24 | wahanui joined #koha | |
| 00:24 | wizzyrea | to one |
| 00:24 | that is writable | |
| 00:24 | by your koha user | |
| 00:24 | cait | my current fix is to git revert 83fee24dbcb03769649ed8afdab2d7a9d1e2a8a2 |
| 00:24 | wizzyrea | like /var/log/koha/sitename/ |
| 00:24 | or sth | |
| 00:24 | cait | i think we need to fix this |
| 00:24 | properly | |
| 00:24 | eythian | does " /home/katrin/kohacloneU/installer/" exist? |
| 00:25 | wizzyrea | /home/katrin/koha-devU/var/log/ this is the one that doesn't exist, I reckon |
| 00:25 | eythian | oh |
| 00:25 | yes | |
| 00:25 | that | |
| 00:25 | cait | it does exist |
| 00:25 | eythian | I copied the wrong thing |
| 00:25 | cait | my other log files live there happily :) |
| 00:26 | the problem is that the web installer is not allowed to create a new file in there | |
| 00:26 | which it only wants to do since a recent chane | |
| 00:26 | eythian | I don't buy that |
| 00:26 | because it would give permission denied | |
| 00:27 | it's not on a windows filesystem or something is it? | |
| 00:27 | cait | bug12023 |
| 00:27 | bug 12023 - i copied everything there | |
| 00:27 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12023 normal, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Web installer fails under plack |
| 00:27 | cait | the files in the directory and the permissions |
| 00:28 | eythian | cait: is that the right bug? |
| 00:28 | cait | no |
| 00:28 | sec | |
| 00:28 | Bug 13793 | |
| 00:28 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13793 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , The installer does not output the result of the update using Plack |
| 00:29 | eythian | hmm. the system should be able to write to your logdir |
| 00:29 | that's the purpose of a logdir | |
| 00:29 | dcook | Mmm peanut butter cups and rice-krispy treats. Those would be heaven. |
| 00:29 | eythian | though really, we should be using the proper syslog stuff |
| 00:30 | doing an open is a bad way of doing it imo | |
| 00:30 | oh, that's all reading | |
| 00:30 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 00:30 | eythian | yeah, that patch assumes things exist with no proof that they do, it seems |
| 00:31 | it should have a test for existance wrapped around the whole thing | |
| 00:31 | dcook | -f ftw |
| 00:31 | cait | eythian: but the file can#t exist |
| 00:31 | it tries to create it with the timestamp in the name | |
| 00:32 | *shrugs* | |
| 00:32 | eythian | cait: no, it seems to be opening it for reading |
| 00:32 | not writing | |
| 00:33 | papa joined #koha | |
| 00:33 | cait | hm but where is it created? |
| 00:33 | eythian | presumably during the installation |
| 00:33 | + eval{ `rm $logfilepath` }; | |
| 00:33 | ugh | |
| 00:36 | wizzyrea | you know it's bad when you get an "ugh" |
| 00:36 | eythian | + my $cmd = C4::Context->config("intranetdir") . "/installer/data/$info{dbms}/updatedatabase.pl > $logfilepath 2> $logfilepath_errors"; |
| 00:36 | that's where it creates it | |
| 00:36 | icky | |
| 00:36 | wizzyrea | ooh, an ugh *and* an icky. |
| 00:36 | cait | also bug 13859 :) |
| 00:36 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13859 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , Fix item search result list - obsolete "by" and display of publication date for MARC21 |
| 00:37 | cait | eythian: you chould wirte a nice comment about the ugh and icky |
| 00:37 | wizzyrea | chould is a cross between could and should. |
| 00:37 | I like it. | |
| 00:37 | eythian | Well, also it's very fragile |
| 00:50 | cait | night all |
| 00:50 | wahanui | goodnight cait. You'll be back. |
| 00:50 | cait left #koha | |
| 00:59 | dcook | IE8, you're so much fun... |
| 00:59 | IE11, how hard is it to add a ruler to your developer tools... | |
| 01:11 | eythian | http://www.theverge.com/2015/3[…]et-explorer-brand <-- dcook |
| 01:14 | dcook | Yeah, I think I read that this morning |
| 01:14 | eythian | https://youtu.be/euZ0j7vtKEQ <-- also dcook |
| 01:14 | dcook | I doubt it'll change anything though |
| 01:16 | Actually, I read a different one | |
| 01:16 | This one is much more amusing | |
| 01:16 | I imagine Windows XP, IE7, and IE8 will be around for a long time | |
| 01:17 | * dcook | sees Windows XP all the time out in public as well... |
| 01:18 | dcook | hehe |
| 01:18 | eythian: love the video | |
| 01:38 | dac joined #koha | |
| 01:45 | JoshB joined #koha | |
| 02:12 | dac | I don't know how I lived this long without knowing this -> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Movi[…]o_matching_braces |
| 02:14 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 02:16 | drojf | insomnia and string freeze, it's a winning combination |
| 02:22 | eythian | oh yeah, % is quite handy |
| 02:22 | dcook | Tempted to look for an HTML plugin to do the same with html tags.. |
| 02:28 | shalom joined #koha | |
| 02:28 | eythian | there probably is one |
| 02:28 | dcook | Yeah, it looks like a few |
| 02:29 | Just don't have time to trial it :/ | |
| 02:29 | Tagsouuuup! | |
| 02:29 | :p | |
| 02:29 | Mind you, maybe it would be faster to trial one than to deal with this | |
| 02:29 | drojf | klicken sie |
| 02:34 | shalom | Hi, can anyone teach me how to use OpacHiddenItems to hide some item type from the OPAC? |
| 02:45 | eythian | https://medium.com/travel-adve[…]class-17d9f3fee0d <-- when I'm rich and famous, during the time my personal jet is on order, this will be part of the cost for having me come to speak. |
| 02:48 | dcook | Hurray! Fixed the tag soup! |
| 02:51 | Oh wait.. maybe not | |
| 02:51 | Just part of the soup.. | |
| 02:52 | \o/ | |
| 02:54 | Fixing all the things... | |
| 02:54 | Doing the fixing dance... | |
| 03:02 | dJ joined #koha | |
| 03:02 | Francesca joined #koha | |
| 03:07 | drojf | @later tell cait we are using 'heimatbibliothek', 'heimbibliothek' and 'besitzende bibliothek'. 'heimatbibliothek is the one we have most, so i am using that for now, but i think it sounds funny. is it common in german library speak? |
| 03:07 | huginn | drojf: The operation succeeded. |
| 03:09 | eythian | they all sound funny |
| 03:10 | drojf | of course, they are all german ;) |
| 03:12 | "If columns are hidden they will be checked off and hidden when you view the table." that sounds funny too | |
| 03:17 | eythian | that does not scan easily |
| 03:28 | * dcook | has no idea what that means |
| 03:29 | dcook | Wait, I think I get it |
| 03:29 | When you check a checkbox, it hides the column when viewing the table? | |
| 03:31 | drojf | the on-site checkbox checker checks the on-site checkout checkbox. |
| 03:31 | eythian | > ASCII was first used in 1963, and later endorsed by President Lyndon B. Johnson. |
| 03:33 | drojf | oh see, i did it wrong |
| 03:33 | the on-site checkout checkbox checker checks the on-site checkout checkbox | |
| 03:34 | eythian | that's better. |
| 03:35 | drojf | i wish my president would endorse some encoding standard that only works for my language |
| 03:35 | with forced umlauts :D | |
| 03:38 | eythian | who needs umlauts anyway |
| 03:38 | next you'll want smartquotes, and it's all downhill from there | |
| 03:44 | drojf | heh |
| 03:46 | eythian | https://modelviewculture.com/p[…]ant-write-my-name <-- an interesting read |
| 03:50 | drojf | promising title |
| 04:01 | * dcook | might pass :p |
| 04:04 | drojf | good text, thanks for the link |
| 04:08 | dcook | Oh man... |
| 04:08 | respond.js really doesn't like an empty media query | |
| 04:09 | But doesn't throw any errors to say this.. | |
| 04:12 | drojf | enough late night translation. i'm sure cait would be disappointed if there were nothing left in the morning |
| 04:13 | i shouldn't be awake like this at 5 am | |
| 04:13 | eythian | heh |
| 04:47 | dcook | Ahhh respond.js is amazingly brittle... |
| 04:47 | Still... beats writing your own polyfill... | |
| 04:47 | IE 8 is bad and should feel bad... | |
| 04:49 | So I haven't read this yet, but the headline is amazing: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/[…]zealand-1.2998105 | |
| 04:50 | Hmm may just be a headline with no substance though.. | |
| 04:50 | Bah | |
| 04:50 | Slow down, heart | |
| 04:50 | eythian | yeah, it's one guy's proposal, not anything official |
| 04:51 | * dcook | grumbles |
| 04:51 | dcook | It seemed a bit too good to be true :p |
| 04:51 | * dcook | can't see this ever happening |
| 04:51 | dcook | Especially because the Australian government would say that the other countries would be used to bring people in illegally somehow |
| 04:51 | eythian | especially in the current australian political environment |
| 04:51 | yeah, that | |
| 04:51 | wahanui | yeah, that is cool - a way to enhance the OPAC without bloating Koha... |
| 04:52 | dcook | It would just lead to... yep... nope |
| 04:52 | In a few weeks, I will have been waiting 5 months on my application | |
| 04:52 | eythian | wow |
| 04:52 | that's a long time | |
| 04:52 | * dcook | shrug |
| 04:53 | dcook | All in all, it's fairly short |
| 04:53 | eythian | I suppose |
| 04:53 | dcook | It's the shortest estimated time I've seen published |
| 04:53 | Partner visa applicants don't usually hear back for at least a year | |
| 04:55 | Alas, the website is out of date | |
| 04:55 | https://www.immi.gov.au/about/[…]ter/visas/8.0.htm | |
| 04:55 | Most of these visas have been reclassed | |
| 04:55 | So it's anyone's bet really | |
| 04:56 | I should be in the ENS though... so 2nd highest priority and low risk so... 5 months... fingers crossed on an April approval... | |
| 04:57 | Then I'll come visit Wellington ;) | |
| 04:59 | eythian | sounds like a plan :) |
| 05:12 | dcook | :) |
| 05:15 | Whoa.. | |
| 05:15 | http://www.immi.gov.au/Visas/Pages/103.aspx | |
| 05:15 | "There can be long waiting times of up to 30 years before this visa is approved." | |
| 05:15 | eythian | that sounds a bit extreme |
| 05:15 | dcook | Just a bit, eh? |
| 05:16 | Wow, it's another one of those ones of trying to keep out "immigrants" | |
| 05:16 | You also can only apply if "at least half of your children live permanently in Australia" | |
| 05:16 | Oh well. One month. Hopefully they'll approve me in one month. | |
| 05:16 | * dcook | still feels bad for every other immigrant ever |
| 05:34 | drojf | you wouldn't expect a country full of huge spiders and other weird wildlife to need such kind of restrictions |
| 05:45 | mario joined #koha | |
| 05:50 | dcook | hehe |
| 05:50 | Agreed, drojf | |
| 05:50 | The wildlife will take care of us.. | |
| 05:53 | eythian | gar, I've just spent a few hours digging through strace output and .c files to diagnose an issue with apache. |
| 05:53 | fun times. | |
| 06:12 | * Francesca | realises she has left irc sitting open for a entire day |
| 06:23 | * paxed | hates koha's authority support. |
| 06:25 | drojf | patches welcome :P |
| 06:26 | paxed | i can't figure out why link_bibs_to_authorities.pl can't get rid of the auth linking, when there are no auth records, and zebra auth has been reindexed. |
| 06:27 | and LinkerKeepStale = do not | |
| 06:27 | and LinkerRelink = do | |
| 06:29 | it'll be faster for me to write my own perl script (that doesn't use zebra) to mangle the auth links the way i want, than start looking at koha and zebra. | |
| 06:29 | dcook | Yeah, authorities is a bit scary :/ |
| 06:29 | eythian: that does sound like fun :( | |
| 06:30 | paxed | _especially_ when it takes ~6h to reindex zebra. |
| 06:30 | dcook | I think I've figured out respond.js's little gotchas at least |
| 06:30 | * dcook | shudders |
| 06:30 | eythian | dcook: I think I won the battle, not totally sure about the war though. |
| 06:30 | dcook | paxed: Yeah, that's no fun |
| 06:30 | eythian: I feel like that about IE 8 | |
| 06:30 | eythian | heh |
| 06:30 | dcook | Mind you, that war won't be over until it's gone forever |
| 06:30 | eythian | you'll never win that war, it can only be beaten through attrition |
| 06:30 | dcook | Pretty much |
| 06:33 | I think I'm off though | |
| 06:33 | Tempted to go to the gym, but... want to nerd out a bit at home | |
| 06:34 | Ciao | |
| 06:34 | eythian | yeah, I think I've beaten SAML enough for today |
| 06:34 | time for me to go also | |
| 06:34 | later | |
| 06:38 | magnuse joined #koha | |
| 06:38 | * magnuse | waves |
| 06:48 | josef_moravec joined #koha | |
| 06:58 | magnuse | fundraising meeting in 3 hours? http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing_18_March_2015 |
| 07:13 | Zenik joined #koha | |
| 07:13 | josef_moravec | I think so |
| 07:13 | Zenik left #koha | |
| 07:15 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 07:44 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 07:48 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:48 | wahanui | bonjour, reiveune |
| 07:51 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 07:52 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 07:55 | codavid joined #koha | |
| 07:55 | codavid left #koha | |
| 08:03 | * Francesca | waves |
| 08:03 | waves goodbye | |
| 08:04 | Francesca | au reviour koha, catch you around some other time |
| 08:05 | Jul joined #koha | |
| 08:05 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 08:13 | cait joined #koha | |
| 08:13 | cait | good morning #koha |
| 08:13 | magnuse | kia ora cait |
| 08:16 | cait | kia ora magnuse |
| 08:22 | kivilahtio | hiyaya |
| 08:25 | sophie_m | hello #koha |
| 08:25 | magnuse | bonjour kivilahtio and sophie_m |
| 08:25 | * cait | hates translating |
| 08:25 | * magnuse | too |
| 08:26 | kivilahtio | cait: me too. We had a nice talk with drojf last saturday about how to make it supe rawesome |
| 08:26 | magnuse | one cookie per word? |
| 08:26 | google translate? | |
| 08:26 | wahanui | google translate is getting better |
| 08:27 | cait | paying someone else to do it? :) |
| 08:27 | magnuse | yeah! |
| 08:28 | drojf | i'd like it more if you paid me :D |
| 08:28 | magnuse | what if drojf pays cait to do it and cait pays drojf to do it? |
| 08:28 | cait | drojf++ fr already starting with translation last night |
| 08:29 | drojf | getting some sleep would have also helped. then again i translated in the night^^ |
| 08:29 | cait | magnuse: and none of us actually does it? :) |
| 08:29 | magnuse | um yeah. that, or you both do some |
| 08:30 | and you both get paid | |
| 08:30 | kivilahtio | we need to improve the translation module |
| 08:30 | drojf | and we could leave out the money part if we pay eacht other the same anyway |
| 08:30 | so we just do it together. that's like, now :D | |
| 08:31 | cait | meh ok |
| 08:31 | drojf | cookies would still help |
| 08:35 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 08:38 | magnuse | opac and pref done - woohoo! |
| 08:39 | cait | If nothing is hidden you will see no check marks and will see all of the columns when viewing the table. |
| 08:41 | drojf: ? | |
| 08:41 | check marks | |
| 08:42 | drojf | i was wondering about these table things. i can't really say without having a look at them |
| 08:43 | what are they for? | |
| 08:43 | or, where? | |
| 08:43 | cait | you can configure how a table looks like |
| 08:43 | drojf | a table where? |
| 08:43 | cait | for example - if you don#t use basket groups, you could hide all the columns for them (if we had the feature implemented yet for acq) |
| 08:43 | magnuse | in the livingroom |
| 08:43 | cait | right now it's more a poc |
| 08:43 | was hoping for some more patches in 3.18 :) | |
| 08:44 | drojf | and what is the syspref or where do i set it? |
| 08:44 | cait | it saves your settings to the database, but you have a little control thing to change it on the page later if you decie you need to see one of the hidden columns |
| 08:44 | in administration, it has its own area | |
| 08:44 | drojf | spalten konfigurieren? |
| 08:44 | ah | |
| 08:44 | i have never seen this :) | |
| 08:45 | cait | 3.18 new :) |
| 08:45 | drojf | and all the way down the admin page ;) |
| 08:45 | Joubu | Hi #koha |
| 08:45 | cait | hi Joubu :) |
| 08:45 | magnuse | bonjour Joubu |
| 08:45 | drojf | they are just kästchen for häkchen machen :D |
| 08:45 | cait | Joubu: wasn't there another patch for a colvis table i promised to test? |
| 08:46 | drojf | check marks=häkchen |
| 08:46 | Joubu | there are 2 new tables, yes |
| 08:46 | but not pushed yet | |
| 08:46 | kivilahtio | wow wow, the Marc::Record->edition() subfield 250$a is not indexed other than in keyword index. |
| 08:47 | gotta fix that :) Our new Koha migrators want to match their incoming records using that. | |
| 08:47 | and I think it would be nice to search for edition? | |
| 08:48 | drojf | have fun with the zebra |
| 08:48 | ^^ | |
| 08:49 | Joubu | cait: bug 13372 and bug 13492 |
| 08:49 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13372 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Items lost report improvements |
| 08:49 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13492 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add location to the checkouts tables | |
| 08:49 | Joubu | should be pushed soon :) |
| 08:51 | cait: and I want to add it to the tables in the acq module, but I wait for the tax rewrite patches to be pushed | |
| 08:53 | kivilahtio | drojf: I have already added several indexes to Zebra. I just copy from my git patches :) Luckily we get ElasticSearch this year. Best of all it solves this "configure new index in gazillion different places"-issue. |
| 08:53 | I just hope somebody doesn't start demanding that we must maintain both Zebra and ElasticSearch :) | |
| 08:53 | I wouldn't be surprised if such someone would appear | |
| 08:54 | drojf | oh we will for a while |
| 08:54 | i'm pretty sure | |
| 08:54 | kivilahtio | I wont't :) I wil llabel all my patches, "Wil lwork on ElasticSearch" only |
| 08:54 | drojf | but yes, it looks really nice in elasticsearch, if it's just the sql i've seen |
| 08:54 | kivilahtio | drojf: yes, ElasticSearch takes care of a lot of scaffolding we have had to do to make indexing work. |
| 08:55 | drojf: I am hoping we could get rid of atleast 2000 lines of code | |
| 08:55 | Joubu | kivilahtio: that's why the Solr work was stuck in a POC, we were waiting for someone to work on the zebra code |
| 08:55 | the community wants to keep zebra | |
| 08:56 | kivilahtio | Well... If Biblibre, Bywater and me will want to use ElasticSearch, I am pretty sure we can do it |
| 08:56 | drojf | i have not learned how to configure zebra for nothing. we have to keep it forever :D |
| 08:56 | kivilahtio | drojf: :) I have learned and I want to get rid of it asap |
| 08:56 | but i know the attitude | |
| 08:57 | I mean switching to ES makes no changes for the user | |
| 08:57 | drojf | we need a way to do z39/50 and sru and what else zebra does then |
| 08:57 | kivilahtio | and I am not saying not to have Zebra, around, just not accept any new modifications for it |
| 08:57 | ES has SRU | |
| 08:57 | drojf | oh |
| 08:58 | kivilahtio | but not z39.50 |
| 08:58 | drojf | nice. didn't know |
| 08:58 | kivilahtio | In Finland we are deprecating z39.50 |
| 08:58 | so we need but SRU | |
| 08:58 | drojf | there was some z39.50 replacement talked about when using solr. don't remember what it was |
| 08:59 | kivilahtio | I think we could make a z39-50 module for ES, or we ould contract Elastic to make one for us |
| 08:59 | I think ByWater is working on a crowdfunding mode for Koha developments | |
| 09:00 | afaik the world would be much better off by moving forward rather than backward | |
| 09:00 | anyway, gotta add an index... ... ... ... ... | |
| 09:01 | drojf | its not moving backwards, it's retaining backwards compatibility :P |
| 09:01 | don't get lost in the zebra's maze | |
| 09:02 | magnuse | if we can do sru with es, i'll be happy to ditch zebra. but there WILL be libraries that need to have a z39.50 server, just wait and see |
| 09:02 | crowdfunding meeting in 1 hour! | |
| 09:02 | Joubu | we developed a z3950 server to query Solr |
| 09:03 | magnuse | s/crowdfunding/fundraising" |
| 09:03 | drojf | crowdraising |
| 09:03 | magnuse | gah s/"/\// |
| 09:03 | crowdcrazy! | |
| 09:03 | drojf | heh |
| 09:05 | kivilahtio | Joubu: I think we can hook that to ES without much difficulties |
| 09:06 | Joubu | maybe without any changes :) |
| 09:06 | kivilahtio | maybe :) |
| 09:06 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 09:08 | fridolin | hie all |
| 09:08 | kivilahtio | hi carrot hater |
| 09:09 | fridolin | kivilahtio: I'm more banana |
| 09:09 | ;) | |
| 09:09 | kivilahtio | :) |
| 09:09 | Bananas get sloppy easily | |
| 09:09 | afaik | |
| 09:10 | but they taste better | |
| 09:11 | cait | Joubu++ |
| 09:13 | i think we also need to see how hard it's to set up ES | |
| 09:14 | and how reliable it works | |
| 09:14 | koha is used in so many different libraries, shoudl not shut out those with not so many resources | |
| 09:22 | Continue translation (981 words left) ... hands over to drojf again | |
| 09:26 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 09:26 | gaetan_B | hello |
| 09:26 | wahanui | kia ora, gaetan_B |
| 09:28 | drojf | cait++ |
| 09:35 | cait | Joubu: thx for qa - hope that was the last one :) |
| 09:35 | Joubu | cait: I am checking |
| 09:36 | cait | ah cool was not sure how to - i went through the administration and tools pages, but i think we got more in circ |
| 09:37 | Joubu | admni/cities |
| 09:37 | kivilahtio | In which field is edition in UNIMARC? In MARC21 it is field 250$a |
| 09:38 | Does anybody know where can I find english unimarc documentation? which would be somewhat in par to the LOC's Marc21 documentation? | |
| 09:38 | cait | Joubu: aah, we don't use that. missed it |
| 09:38 | Joubu | catalogue/search-history |
| 09:38 | kivilahtio | http://www.ifla.org/files/asse[…]_block_update.pdf |
| 09:38 | 205 Edition statement , phew... | |
| 09:39 | cait | Joubu: will you write the patches? i can sign |
| 09:39 | or we let kivi do the sign... and i qa ;) | |
| 09:39 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 09:40 | Joubu | cait: yep |
| 09:50 | magnuse | fundraising meeting in 10 minutes? http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ing_18_March_2015 |
| 09:52 | ashimema | we don't have anyone to represent us in the office :( |
| 09:53 | bag | good morning |
| 09:54 | slef | hi bag. Sorry you're up so early |
| 09:54 | Joubu | bag++ #you are awake! |
| 09:54 | thd | kivilahtio: The most complete recent UNIMARC bibliographic format document in English without charge may be http://archive.ifla.org/VI/8/u[…]c-format-2008.pdf |
| 09:55 | bag | hey slef long time :) |
| 09:55 | joann joined #koha | |
| 09:55 | bag | morning Joubu |
| 09:55 | slef | bag: time_zones-- |
| 09:55 | bag | yeah they are stinkers |
| 09:55 | cait | morning bag |
| 09:55 | bag | good morning joann |
| 09:55 | kivilahtio | thd: Thanks! I bookmarked that. You might want to take a peek at Bug 11194 in an hour or so |
| 09:55 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11194 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Add a new index for edition of a document |
| 09:55 | bag | heya cait |
| 09:55 | joann | Greetings everyone |
| 09:55 | kivilahtio | hi tehre |
| 09:56 | cait | @seen oleonard |
| 09:56 | huginn | cait: oleonard was last seen in #koha 2 weeks, 4 days, 16 hours, 1 minute, and 25 seconds ago: <oleonard> That's very strange squash. I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on. |
| 09:56 | cait | hmmm wonder where he is |
| 09:56 | BobB | hi bag, cait |
| 09:56 | bag | hey BobB |
| 09:57 | BobB | hi joann |
| 09:57 | joann | hi bob |
| 09:57 | thd | kivilahtio: There is more which 'should' be indexed than that which any system does index. |
| 09:58 | kivilahtio | thd: what do you mean? |
| 09:58 | thd: Our partner librarians are asking for a full marc search, so they could say any marc field and subfield to search from | |
| 09:58 | thd: I think that might be a bit too much to ask | |
| 09:58 | thd | kivilahtio: Merely that all systems underutilise the information contain in the bibliographic and other records |
| 09:59 | magnuse | one index per subfield? |
| 09:59 | kivilahtio | thd: So I said to them that wi will add search indexes as the need arises. So instead of doing arbitrary marc indexing, we index the needed subsets |
| 09:59 | andreashm joined #koha | |
| 09:59 | kivilahtio | magnuse: yes |
| 09:59 | bag | one index to rule them all |
| 09:59 | slef | BONG |
| 09:59 | * magnuse | waves to all the people who are up at odd hours! |
| 09:59 | slef | #startmeeting Fundraising IRC meeting |
| 09:59 | huginn | Meeting started Wed Mar 18 09:59:25 2015 UTC. The chair is slef. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 09:59 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 09:59 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Fundraising IRC meeting) | |
| 09:59 | huginn | The meeting name has been set to 'fundraising_irc_meeting' |
| 09:59 | slef | #topic Introductions |
| 09:59 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 09:59 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Fundraising IRC meeting) | |
| 09:59 | magnuse | bag: nah, that would be a few thousand indexes |
| 09:59 | slef | Thank you, $TZAG and welcome |
| 09:59 | bag | magnuse: I got carried away |
| 09:59 | magnuse | we already have one index that contains everything, methinks |
| 09:59 | slef | please introduce yourself with #info if you wish your attendance to be minuted |
| 10:00 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 10:00 | slef | I'll give it 2 minute then move on |
| 10:00 | bag | #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater |
| 10:00 | BobB | #info Bob Birchall, Calyx Australia |
| 10:00 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre |
| 10:00 | kivilahtio | #info Olli-Antti Kivilahti, Vaara-libraries, Joensuu, Finland |
| 10:00 | magnuse | #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway |
| 10:00 | slef | #info MJ Ray, member of software.coop, England |
| 10:00 | davidnind | #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand |
| 10:00 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 10:00 | joann | #info Joann Ransom, Horowhenua, NZ |
| 10:00 | m23_ joined #koha | |
| 10:00 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 10:01 | irma | #info Irma Birchall CALYX Australia |
| 10:01 | paul_p | #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre |
| 10:02 | andreashm | #info Andreas Hedström Mace, Stockholm University Library |
| 10:02 | slef | #topic A fund for Koha development |
| 10:02 | Topic for #koha is now A fund for Koha development (Meeting topic: Fundraising IRC meeting) | |
| 10:02 | slef | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising |
| 10:02 | #info There are six signatories proposed on there. | |
| 10:02 | m23_ joined #koha | |
| 10:03 | BobB | I move, "That the meeting endorse the MOU" |
| 10:03 | joann | I second that the meeting endorse the MOU |
| 10:04 | slef | Sorry to amend from the chair, but I amend " with Grants Sub-committee changed to Grants Committee throughout" |
| 10:04 | joann | It is a sub committee of THT Finance Committee |
| 10:04 | nlegrand | #info Nicolas Legrand, BULAC, France |
| 10:04 | slef | Would anyone second that, or BobB/joann accept the amendment? |
| 10:04 | BobB | wrong slef, the grants sub-committee is a sub-committee of THT's Finance Committee |
| 10:04 | drojf | #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany |
| 10:04 | slef | joann: I'm happy to have Grants Committee changed to Grants Sub-Committee throughout, if you prefer. |
| 10:05 | BobB | agree |
| 10:05 | slef | It just seems confusing to have both in there. |
| 10:05 | joann | I would prefer it left as a subcommittee |
| 10:05 | bag | Sub-Committee is consistent |
| 10:05 | joann | but yes - standardised regradles :) |
| 10:05 | slef | bag: read 11.2 and there are others |
| 10:06 | there's both terms used in one clause there | |
| 10:06 | bag | no no I mean if we change it all to sub committee - then that would be consistent ;) |
| 10:06 | slef | Any other amendments or questions before we move to vote? |
| 10:06 | joann | I move that the grants committee be referred to as "the grants subcomittee' throughout the MOU |
| 10:06 | bag | +1 joann |
| 10:06 | thd | slef: I think that the organisation of HLT should be respected for funds ultimately managed by HLT even if the 'sub-committee' has appropriate autonomy of action. |
| 10:07 | BobB | I second Jo's motion |
| 10:07 | bag | +1 |
| 10:07 | magnuse | +1 |
| 10:07 | davidnind | +1 |
| 10:07 | slef | #startvote Does this meeting endorse the MOU with Grants Committee changed to Grants Sub-Committee throughout? Yes, No, Abstain |
| 10:07 | huginn | Begin voting on: Does this meeting endorse the MOU with Grants Committee changed to Grants Sub-Committee throughout? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Abstain. |
| 10:07 | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | |
| 10:07 | cait | +1 |
| 10:07 | BobB | +1 |
| 10:07 | cait | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | magnuse | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | irma | +1 |
| 10:08 | slef | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | davidnind | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | bag | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | thd | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | joann | #vote yes |
| 10:08 | Joubu | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | slef | I'm putting this as a enumerated vote so there can be no doubt |
| 10:08 | andreashm | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | drojf | #vote yes |
| 10:08 | irma | #vote yes |
| 10:08 | paul_p | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | kivilahtio | #vote Yes |
| 10:08 | BobB | #vote yes |
| 10:08 | nlegrand | #vote yes |
| 10:08 | gmcharlt | good $time_of_day |
| 10:09 | #infoo Galen Charlton, Equinox | |
| 10:09 | kivilahtio | Loooking at the caluse 13.4 The Trust has no obligation to publish information about the Fund but may do so freely if it wishes. |
| 10:09 | I think the trust should have an obligation to publish the status of the fund? | |
| 10:09 | gmcharlt | #vote yes |
| 10:10 | kivilahtio | Or would it be possible to have it somehow automatically visible? |
| 10:10 | joann | The Trust would have to disclose details of the funds raised and how they were dispersed in our audited annual report. |
| 10:11 | m23 joined #koha | |
| 10:11 | kivilahtio | joann: yes I know, but this is for the Fundraising Committee |
| 10:11 | slef | kivilahtio: my understanding is that 13.1 means the Fundraising Committee has the obligation, rather than us making the Trust work for us. |
| 10:11 | BobB | kivilahtio, it is the responsibility of the Fundraising Committee to keep the community informed of the activity in the Fund |
| 10:11 | joann | THT will also be able to produce monthly statements at the push of a button; no problems there. |
| 10:11 | slef | I welcome joann or BobB confirming... heh |
| 10:11 | drojf | i understood it like slef did |
| 10:11 | BobB | we have done everyting possible in teh MOU to minimise the burden on THT |
| 10:11 | kivilahtio | hmm , I understand thanks for the clarification |
| 10:12 | bag | that’s the key - what BobB - highlighted - minimise the burden on THT |
| 10:12 | slef | kivilahtio: if we obliged THT to do work for us, we probably should give them x% to cover their admin costs, like SPI takes 5% of its project donations IIRC |
| 10:12 | kivilahtio | slef: thanks |
| 10:12 | slef | closing vote in 3... |
| 10:12 | 2... | |
| 10:12 | 1... | |
| 10:12 | joann | and I am happy to publically confirm that THT wil be able to produce statements of all activity on request, or at agreed periods, with no great effort |
| 10:12 | thd | kivilahtio may be raising an important point but I took it that the sub-committee could make its own rules for better disclosure. |
| 10:12 | slef | #endvote |
| 10:12 | huginn | Voted on "Does this meeting endorse the MOU with Grants Committee changed to Grants Sub-Committee throughout?" Results are |
| 10:12 | Yes (16): Joubu, magnuse, davidnind, cait, irma, andreashm, nlegrand, slef, BobB, bag, joann, gmcharlt, kivilahtio, paul_p, thd, drojf | |
| 10:13 | kivilahtio | I havenät rad the agreement, but just now, and I am no financial expert, so hence I said yes, because that seems to be the consensus, just asking :) |
| 10:13 | m23 joined #koha | |
| 10:13 | slef | Any last-gasp changes to the proposed signatories? |
| 10:13 | Are we going with six? | |
| 10:13 | kivilahtio | if Finance committee can automatically publish the fund status and all who donated to it and why, then i see no problem |
| 10:13 | magnuse | have they all agreed to sign? |
| 10:13 | thd | kivilahtio: consensus is often wrong :) |
| 10:14 | slef | Unless someone shouts, I'll open the vote... |
| 10:14 | kivilahtio | thd: not always, I have seen some names say yes who I think know better than I do |
| 10:14 | paul_p | what kind of signature will it be ? Will it be a real signature (don't expect me to go to NZ to sign the MOU ;-) ) |
| 10:14 | slef | magnuse: I understand bag added himself and the others were confirmed last meetting |
| 10:14 | kivilahtio | hence I trust their verdict |
| 10:14 | BobB | subject to their consent, I guess |
| 10:14 | drojf | i put those mentioned here on the list, some of them agreed last time, some did not say anything. i think only bag put his name in the list by himself |
| 10:14 | paul_p | (even if I'd like to go to NZ once again) |
| 10:14 | slef | waiting for answer to paul_p |
| 10:14 | thd | kivilahtio: trust but verify ;) |
| 10:14 | slef | which I can't give |
| 10:14 | does NZ accept digital signatures? | |
| 10:14 | gmcharlt | one thing to mention |
| 10:14 | joann | yes. but it could be scanned and emailed. |
| 10:14 | paul_p | joann what kind of signature will it be ? Will it be a real signature ? |
| 10:15 | joann OK | |
| 10:15 | joann | It is just an MOU remember |
| 10:15 | slef | waiting on gmcharlt |
| 10:15 | bag | I have confirmed with nengard that she’s ok with signing |
| 10:15 | BobB | thx bag |
| 10:15 | gmcharlt | while I've been less than thrilled at some of the pushingness to get this thing approved instantly -- why ask for community assent without a reasonable time to read the doc... |
| 10:15 | joann | Chris was happy via email |
| 10:16 | gmcharlt | my substantive concerns were addressed by the inclusion of the clause that a conflict of interest policy must be |
| 10:16 | devised prior to the naming of a grants committee | |
| 10:16 | bag | gmcharlt: that’s the thing - we’ve been working on this for a long time |
| 10:16 | it’s not new | |
| 10:16 | there was a vote in december that said yes move forward etc | |
| 10:16 | joann | I think the real work, the heavy lifting, has yet to be done. This is just the first step. |
| 10:17 | BobB | I think people are overlooking the December vote |
| 10:17 | gmcharlt | bag: that does not actually respond to my point that the MOU itself was visible only a day before folk were asked to give assent to others to sign it on behlf of the community |
| 10:17 | :) | |
| 10:17 | but let me finish my initial point | |
| 10:17 | joann | so, the question is do we have some people wiling to be signatories, and a community happy to support those nominations |
| 10:18 | gmcharlt | namely, that because of the inclusion of the 11.3, I am now willing to sign |
| 10:18 | slef | yeah probably - for one, I was unaware of what was happening, which is probably my fault, but the minutes of December's meeting were not exactly clear |
| 10:18 | gmcharlt | but that obviously, the final details of the rules will no doubt determine the extent to which people are willing to donate |
| 10:18 | slef | http://meetings.koha-community[…]-12-17-21.09.html |
| 10:18 | joann | and then we have to decide who is going to form a sub group to do all the hard stuf, working out how the fundraising and grants committee wil be established and operae |
| 10:18 | gmcharlt | and, FWIW, I'm willing to participate in helping with good ones |
| 10:18 | or | |
| 10:19 | tl;dr - I am willing to sign; I'm volunteering to participate on fundraising committee, particular during the initial stage | |
| 10:19 | that's it | |
| 10:19 | slef | ok, more questions/comments/changes, or open the vote? |
| 10:19 | thd | Certainly documents require time to examine with appropriate attention. Also, long quiet periods for old issues can be problematic when we raised again to proceed. |
| 10:19 | joann | tats enough :) |
| 10:20 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 10:20 | i think the main problem was the short amount of time- i was travelling for example and didn#t have any chance to read the mou before the meeting - more a problem if timing than anything else | |
| 10:20 | no problem with the mou in general | |
| 10:20 | joann | slef: where are we up to and what hapens now re identifying signatories? |
| 10:21 | bag | I think we open the vote |
| 10:21 | slef | joann: there are six listed on the wiki. I'm going to open the vote now and let people say yes/no to all, or ask to vote them one-by-one. |
| 10:21 | magnuse | gmcharlt++ |
| 10:21 | slef | #startvote Endorse bag rangi BobB paul_p gmcharlt nengard as signatories? Yes, No, Some, Abstain |
| 10:21 | huginn | Begin voting on: Endorse bag rangi BobB paul_p gmcharlt nengard as signatories? Valid vote options are Yes, No, Some, Abstain. |
| 10:21 | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | |
| 10:21 | joann | (ust realised I am tired and abrubt - sorry everyone. 11.20pm here) |
| 10:21 | cait | slef: could you post the wiki links again for the logs? |
| 10:22 | slef | joann: I'm always abrupt so I'm not going to grumble |
| 10:22 | cait | ah found it |
| 10:22 | thd | joann: Do you have the ascent of all the listed signers who did not add their own names? |
| 10:22 | slef | cait: logs of which? |
| 10:22 | kivilahtio | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | Joubu | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | magnuse | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | nlegrand | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | BobB | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | davidnind | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | andreashm | #vote Yes |
| 10:22 | slef | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising |
| 10:22 | irma | #vote yes |
| 10:22 | joann | Nicole has ben confirmed by Brendan - so yes - they are all wiling |
| 10:22 | drojf | #vote yes |
| 10:22 | joann | #vote yes |
| 10:22 | thd | #vote Yes |
| 10:23 | khall | #vote yes |
| 10:23 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 10:24 | slef | #showvote |
| 10:24 | huginn | Yes (12): Joubu, magnuse, davidnind, joann, nlegrand, andreashm, irma, BobB, khall, kivilahtio, thd, drojf |
| 10:24 | bag | #vote yes |
| 10:24 | cait | you need a capital Y |
| 10:24 | slef | waiting for 3 more or for about 1 minute |
| 10:24 | cait | for it to count |
| 10:24 | drojf | nope |
| 10:24 | slef | cait: nope, see irma and joann |
| 10:24 | drojf | i didn't |
| 10:24 | cait | ah, ok |
| 10:24 | sorry, misread | |
| 10:25 | paul_p | #vote Yes |
| 10:25 | slef | #vote Yes |
| 10:25 | #endvote | |
| 10:25 | huginn | Voted on "Endorse bag rangi BobB paul_p gmcharlt nengard as signatories?" Results are |
| 10:25 | Yes (15): Joubu, magnuse, davidnind, joann, nlegrand, andreashm, irma, slef, BobB, khall, bag, kivilahtio, paul_p, thd, drojf | |
| 10:25 | slef | Would any of the signatories like to #info what they see as the next community-involving step, please? |
| 10:25 | bag | next step… we need volunteers for the subcommittee to establish “bylaws” etc… I volunteer to put out a call for those volunteers |
| 10:25 | slef | The agenda says " Signatories and community to develop the rules and guidelines for deciding on grants, etc " but I think (hope!) that not all that will happen in this meeting. |
| 10:25 | bag | sorry |
| 10:26 | #info next step… we need volunteers for the subcommittee to establish “bylaws” etc… I volunteer to put out a call for those volunteers | |
| 10:26 | slef | np bag |
| 10:26 | magnuse | bag++ |
| 10:26 | paul_p | bag = you can put my name on the volunteers list |
| 10:26 | gmcharlt | ditto |
| 10:26 | bag | great thanks paul_p and gmcharlt |
| 10:26 | slef | #action bag to put out a call for volunteers. There is space on http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising to use |
| 10:26 | BobB | #info also, Next Steps in this should be an agenda item for the next IRC meeting |
| 10:27 | slef | I'll add that |
| 10:27 | * gmcharlt | is also willing to commit to act as secretary to the group and provide public updates during the rule-making disucssions |
| 10:27 | joann | #info Joann Ransom (THT) will get the MOU signed by everyone nd filed online somewhere, establish a ban\k account, and a paypal donate button :) |
| 10:27 | davidnind | gmcharlt++ |
| 10:28 | slef | done |
| 10:28 | please give non-paypal ways if you can | |
| 10:29 | BobB | THT and Jo +++ |
| 10:29 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 10:29 | * slef | is still sore about kohacon12 funds getting frozen for weeks |
| 10:29 | bag | THT++ |
| 10:29 | slef | gmcharlt++ |
| 10:29 | joann | I am absolutely open to those as well . Paypal is quick and immediate solution, other options can be folded in. |
| 10:29 | bag | joann++ |
| 10:29 | cait | tht++ |
| 10:29 | slef | joann: other NZers are more likely to know what works. I know I can use stuff aimed at the UK which doesn't work outside the EU. |
| 10:29 | magnuse | community++ |
| 10:30 | slef | banks-- |
| 10:30 | thd | I would hope that those drafting rules will publish the draft rules and request further comment possibly before adopting them. |
| 10:30 | slef | thd: and publish the bloody source code ;) |
| 10:30 | any last #info or shall we close this meeting? | |
| 10:30 | thd | I take it as given that rules can always be patched if bugs are found. |
| 10:31 | joann | thd++ |
| 10:31 | slef | you've got until the end of the radio news bulletin, maybe1 minute |
| 10:31 | joann | awesome everyone. |
| 10:31 | slef | then I'm closing if nothing is being recorded :) |
| 10:32 | yes, thanks all... it's been... well, painful, but I think we're getting a stronger step forwards for it... | |
| 10:32 | davidnind | BIG thanks to those involved to date in working through setting this up |
| 10:32 | paul_p | have a good day/night/afternoon/evening/morning every one |
| 10:33 | BobB | good night |
| 10:33 | davidnind | joann++ |
| 10:33 | wahanui | I watch you sleep. |
| 10:33 | slef | #agreed <davidnind> BIG thanks to those involved to date in working through setting this up |
| 10:33 | #endmeeting | |
| 10:33 | Topic for #koha is now Nominations for 3.22-roles are open: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ki/Roles_for_3.22 | Welcome to the IRC home of Koha http://koha-community.org | Code of conduct - http://koha-community.org/abou[…]/code-of-conduct/ | Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for pastes | Installation guide for Koha is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian | |
| 10:33 | huginn | Meeting ended Wed Mar 18 10:33:12 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 10:33 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-03-18-09.59.html | |
| 10:33 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]5-03-18-09.59.txt | |
| 10:33 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]18-09.59.log.html | |
| 10:33 | * slef | posts that to the agenda |
| 10:33 | bag | thanks everyone |
| 10:34 | * bag | decides if I climb back into bed or just starts working for the day |
| 10:34 | davidnind | slef++ |
| 10:34 | slef | done |
| 10:34 | bag: depends if you have anything to do this evening | |
| 10:35 | or if hallucinations wouldn't be a problem doing them | |
| 10:35 | kivilahtio | you are welcome! |
| 10:35 | bag | Sonja is making quiche tonight - not sure if I want to miss that or not ‘) |
| 10:36 | m23 joined #koha | |
| 10:39 | magnuse | joann++ BobB++ slef++ |
| 10:39 | gmcharlt | bag: oooh, egg pie! |
| 10:40 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 10:40 | cait | can we get a sign off for bug 13863 please? |
| 10:40 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13863 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Datatables paging for cities and search history pages is broken |
| 10:41 | bag | I can look at that one cait |
| 10:43 | * magnuse | wanders off in search of a scanner and some food |
| 10:44 | drojf | scan me some food too, please |
| 10:45 | m23_ joined #koha | |
| 10:48 | thd | kivilahtio: Continuing about indexing ... |
| 10:48 | davidnind left #koha | |
| 10:48 | m23_ joined #koha | |
| 10:49 | thd | kivilahtio: The problem with indexing edition statements is that they are transcribed according to cataloguing rules. |
| 10:50 | kivilahtio | thd: I am all ears while I am testing the Edition index |
| 10:50 | thd | kivilahtio: Transcribed elements are not normalised in the form of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. |
| 10:51 | kivilahtio | thd: Shoudldn't that be something the cataloguer should worry about when he puts stuff in the field 205, it is not the indexers issue? |
| 10:52 | thd: You search what you have? | |
| 10:52 | cait | kivilahtio: i think the rule is that you don't normalize, but use what's on the cover or so |
| 10:52 | might be wrong tho | |
| 10:52 | thd | kivilahtio: A great work would be to both index the transcribed statement and add an index for normalised values. Normalising all possible edition statements is an unbounded problem but some normalisation would be helpful for catalogue users. |
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| 10:53 | kivilahtio | thd: I am sorry, but that goes beyond my knowledge of Zebra. I tried dabbling with the XSLT-transformers buit it is not fun |
| 10:53 | thd: I understand that you would like to have the values in the MARC Record somehow search-normalzied | |
| 10:54 | thd: I will provide the index. Somebody else can work from there. Bear in mind that we are havin ElasticSearch support at the end of this year, so I am optimistic taht it will solve a lot of these problems we now have. Including making pre-indexing filtering easier | |
| 10:54 | thd | kivilahtio: As cait describes. The proper procedure following cataloguing rules would be to follow cataloguing rules when cataloguing and have the automation system generate additional fields as needed which normalise values based on what the cataloguer has entered. |
| 10:55 | kivilahtio | thd: yes, like having a sane sorting index for the edition statement :) |
| 10:55 | thd | kivilahtio: exactly ;) |
| 10:56 | kivilahtio: The problem of data normalisation is independent of the indexing system used. | |
| 10:57 | kivilahtio | thd: I cant remember how it was done in ES integraton, but I hope that it doesnt use the Zebra-way or even closely touch the Zebra configuration and XSLT-files |
| 10:58 | not saying that XSLT is bad, but I would like to have something more easily testable | |
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| 10:59 | thd | kivilahtio: Normalisation really entails adding additional normalised fields somewhere to supplement existing fields in the original bibliographic record. |
| 11:01 | kivilahtio: Machine testability for all cases of textual data is tricky. | |
| 11:01 | kivilahtio | thd: atleast you can try :) |
| 11:01 | thd: I thikn it is entirely testable for one MARC Field | |
| 11:01 | give or take a couple subfields | |
| 11:01 | i put in this marc field, i get this marc field out | |
| 11:02 | then i send that marc field to the index | |
| 11:02 | have a couple of different edition variations to cover | |
| 11:02 | godo enough | |
| 11:03 | thd | kivilahtio: On the general problem of normalisation and machine readability in bibliographic records, there is ongoing work by RDA working groups to fix some problems such as having machine readable extent statements. |
| 11:03 | kivilahtio | sorry, certainly I don't know enough to be afraid :) |
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| 11:05 | thd | s/by RDA/for RDA under CC:DA, Committee on Cataloging: Description and Access/ |
| 11:06 | cait | @seen oleonard |
| 11:06 | huginn | cait: oleonard was last seen in #koha 2 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <oleonard> That's very strange squash. I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on. |
| 11:06 | thd | kivilahtio: Fearlessness is important ;) |
| 11:07 | kivilahtio | thd: I know, we wouldn't be anywhere without it. Too many libraries fear to make the leap. |
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| 11:18 | * thd | sleeps again |
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| 12:29 | tcohen | morning |
| 12:29 | where's everyone? | |
| 12:29 | wahanui | i heard everyone was doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver |
| 12:29 | magnuse | here! |
| 12:30 | * tcohen | breathes relieved |
| 12:30 | wahanui | well, breathes relieved is not his fault |
| 12:30 | tcohen | http://snag.gy/MI8xm.jpg |
| 12:30 | cait | hi tcohen |
| 12:30 | tcohen | hi cait magnuse |
| 12:31 | will try to reload the IRC client | |
| 12:31 | m23_ joined #koha | |
| 12:32 | magnuse | someone please kick me back into work mode? |
| 12:33 | * Joubu | sends kitten's pictures to magnuse |
| 12:36 | m23 joined #koha | |
| 12:38 | * magnuse | tries some music |
| 12:38 | magnuse | Joubu: not helpful :-) |
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| 12:39 | cait | i need a signoff still :) |
| 12:39 | magnuse: you knw yo uwant to | |
| 12:41 | bug 13863 - super easy | |
| 12:41 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=13863 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Datatables paging for cities and search history pages is broken |
| 12:44 | magnuse | sure, right after i have done a ton of other things... ;-) |
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| 12:55 | cait | magnuse: i'd like to have it in 3.18 actually |
| 12:56 | oh | |
| 12:56 | it is signed off now | |
| 12:59 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 13:00 | cait | Joubu: any news on the broken web installer? just ran into it again trying to qa :( |
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| 13:29 | magnuse | @wunder boo |
| 13:29 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0°C (2:20 PM CET on March 18, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady). |
| 13:29 | magnuse | ah, nice to have you back huginn |
| 13:30 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 13:30 | tcohen | morning |
| 13:38 | Joubu | cait: I asked tcohen during the hackfest if the permissions were ok, and he told me yes. |
| 13:39 | cait: actually we don't have a lot of choices. If we agree with the idea, we should change the permissions to this directory, it they are wrong | |
| 13:39 | cait: note that the dir used is the one defined in the logdir entry of the koha conf | |
| 13:39 | cait: you can change it if needed | |
| 13:40 | it's not used somewhere else | |
| 13:40 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 13:41 | cait | Joubu: the other logs write there without problems - but it cannot create the file |
| 13:41 | in any of my environments | |
| 13:41 | i think we need to change something there as currently it just breaks the installer | |
| 13:42 | Joubu | cait: yes, the permissions need to be changed |
| 13:42 | tcohen | the fact that the apache process runs with a different user… we cannot avoid it |
| 13:43 | cait | Joubu: i think it's used for other things if you are running a dev install - i think the eval does rm something... it looked dangerous |
| 13:44 | Joubu | the rm removes a file created before |
| 13:46 | cait | hm not sure - it looks like it would not work because it's missing the time stamp bit |
| 13:47 | it's confusing to me | |
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| 13:48 | magnuse | kia ora nengard |
| 13:48 | Joubu | cait: the time stamp bit? |
| 13:49 | cait | it's the same file it created earlier, right? |
| 13:49 | i think i misread | |
| 13:49 | Joubu | cait: actually I remove the file if it is empty |
| 13:49 | cait | the file name has a timestamp as part of it - i thought it woudl delete the file from the last intaller run |
| 13:49 | nengard | hi magnuse |
| 13:49 | cait | i think i don't quite understand how it works |
| 13:49 | nengard | and #koha |
| 13:50 | Joubu | no, the redirections of stdout and stderr are done in 2 separated files (updatedatabase_TIMESTAMP.log and updatedatabase-error_TIMESTAMP.log) |
| 13:50 | if one is empty (i.e. no error or no success), it is removed | |
| 13:50 | just to avoid an empty file | |
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| 14:15 | * barton | waves the morning wave. |
| 14:17 | barton | I just had one of our partners report an intermittent issue that I hadn't run into before -- when they print the holds queue, and it spans multiple pages, sometimes only page 1 will print. It's not a diacritics issue, according to the partner. Anyone ever see anything similar? |
| 14:23 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 14:31 | cait | barton: hm there have been bugs about only printing the first page... but not sure if it was holdsq ueue |
| 14:33 | barton | cait ... good to know. I'll broaden my search. |
| 14:36 | do we have any way of tracking intermittent issues, community wide? that would be a powerful trouble-shooting tool. | |
| 14:40 | sophie_m | barton: Bug 10108 ? |
| 14:41 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10108 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, CLOSED FIXED, can't print more than one page of overdues |
| 14:42 | cait | intermittent? |
| 14:43 | Joubu | Does someone know if C4::Debug is useful or just a vestige? |
| 14:43 | barton | cait: yes. Sometimes they can print all pages. |
| 14:43 | Joubu | @later tell rangi "Do you know if C4::Debug is useful or just a vestige?" |
| 14:43 | huginn | Joubu: The operation succeeded. |
| 14:44 | barton | cait: I did find this: Bug 8751 - printable version of holds queue printing different pages |
| 14:44 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8751 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , printable version of holds queue printing different pages |
| 14:45 | barton | that might or might not be relevant. |
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| 16:03 | reiveune | bye |
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| 16:26 | cait | hm 3.18 borrower import is very slow |
| 16:26 | timed out on me for 3.000 borrowers :( | |
| 16:27 | nengard | eek |
| 16:27 | cait | yeah, split it up now... but not happy |
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| 17:52 | nengard | just did a git pull on my koha and got an error i've never seen when trying to upgrade: |
| 17:52 | Cannot open log file /home/nengard/koha-dev/var/log/updatedatabase_2015-03-18T12:52:13.log: No such file or directory at /home/nengard/kohaclone/installer/install.pl line 332. | |
| 17:57 | bag | nengard: it’s a recently pushed patch - I think eythian made some adjustments to the patch |
| 17:57 | nengard | so - how do i upgrade then |
| 17:57 | bag | look for logging the updatedatabase as a bug |
| 17:58 | run it from the commandline nengard ? | |
| 17:58 | nengard | grumble :) |
| 17:59 | what's that command? | |
| 17:59 | bag | ./installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl |
| 17:59 | if you are using git dev install (that is) | |
| 18:07 | cait joined #koha | |
| 18:07 | * cait | waves |
| 18:29 | nengard_phone | thanks bag that worked |
| 19:16 | cait | hm no tcohen |
| 19:41 | drojf | first full translation for 3.18.5 \o/ |
| 19:42 | translation server is really slow now | |
| 19:43 | downloading the file to test with 5k/s | |
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| 19:49 | cait | drojf++ |
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| 20:00 | cwhitehouse | Hi is someone available to ask a few very simple Koha questions to? |
| 20:00 | wnickc | Sure |
| 20:01 | cwhitehouse | ok great |
| 20:01 | mtj | morning #koha |
| 20:01 | * mtj | waves to cwhitehouse, wnickc |
| 20:02 | * wnickc | waves back |
| 20:02 | mtj | drojf: awesome news on the translation stufff :0) |
| 20:02 | cwhitehouse | I am helping the Butte County Library with a few questions. They are Using Koha that is reemotely installed and managed by a hosting company called bywatersolutions http://butte.bywatersolutions.com |
| 20:03 | mtj | interesting.. -> http://www.newyorker.com/busin[…]esto-turns-thirty |
| 20:04 | cwhitehouse | Patrons use their library card number to check out books are those library cards valiudated through Koha or is bywatersolutions handling that seperatly? |
| 20:05 | I ask because they want to offer seveal links through their website but they would like Patrons to have to validate with their library card before they have access and I am just starting to look at ways to accomplish this | |
| 20:06 | wnickc | cwhitehouse: checking out books should be handled directly through koha |
| 20:06 | other sites can use SIP to validate through koha | |
| 20:06 | cait | or ils-di - there are a few options for authentication |
| 20:06 | but sip is pretty common | |
| 20:06 | wnickc | there are probably some bywater folks around here |
| 20:07 | they have a channel too #bws-partners | |
| 20:07 | cwhitehouse | ok so theoretically I could find a script compatible with Koha's sip connection to use to validate a valid library card before they could access the protected page? |
| 20:08 | cait | hmmm maybe not a ready made one |
| 20:08 | sip is pretty library specific | |
| 20:08 | wnickc | thanks cait, meant to be more inclusive |
| 20:08 | cait | but you could program something - maybe ils-di would be a bit easier there |
| 20:09 | cwhitehouse: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]supported_by_Koha | |
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| 20:10 | Brendon | Exit |
| 20:11 | cwhitehouse | Ok Thanks for the info. I had the library staff who usually handles bywater support requests to put in a request for me to talk to someone in their support team but I thought I might as well ask here. I am not a programmer just a network technician that supports their staff network but its possible if bywater does not have a solution thewy could always hire someone to write the needed script for them. |
| 20:11 | Thanks for all of the info I really appreciate it. I'll go check in on the bywater IRC channel | |
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| 20:14 | rangi | morning |
| 20:14 | cait | morning rangi |
| 20:15 | rangi | @later tell joubu just a vestige .. Koha::Log or something should theoretically take its place |
| 20:15 | huginn | rangi: The operation succeeded. |
| 20:18 | rangi | heh that confused me for a minute I thought it was butte montana |
| 20:19 | drojf | morning rangi |
| 20:19 | cait | ah, me too |
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| 20:41 | wizzyrea | also, just reiterating that *design is important* |
| 20:44 | rangi | yup |
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| 21:07 | eythian | hi |
| 21:10 | http://www.cnet.com/news/micro[…]ew-erotic-e-book/ | |
| 21:21 | wnickc | I would be more comfortable in a world with less proof of rule 34 |
| 21:27 | bag | anybody have an idea of the next general meeting? |
| 21:27 | general meeting? | |
| 21:27 | wahanui | general meeting is when? |
| 21:29 | bag | got it - thanks wiki |
| 21:30 | eythian | don't keep it to yourself bag |
| 21:31 | bag | 8 April 2015 at 19:00 UTC |
| 21:31 | rangi | hmm someone should probably email about the roles for 3.22 |
| 21:31 | bag | I can do that rangi |
| 21:31 | rangi | awesome thanks |
| 21:31 | bag | let me finish my first email and then I will do that |
| 21:31 | eythian | wahanui: general meeting is 8 April 2015 at 19:00 UTC |
| 21:31 | wahanui | ...but general meeting is when?... |
| 21:32 | eythian | no wahanui, general meeting is 8 April 2015 at 19:00 UTC |
| 21:32 | wahanui | okay, eythian. |
| 21:32 | bag | not fast - but sometime today |
| 21:54 | rangi: done | |
| 21:55 | cait | bag++ |
| 21:56 | did you send your other email too? | |
| 21:56 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 21:56 | bag | I am working on that one cait |
| 21:56 | cait | ok :) |
| 21:56 | bag | I’ve got a draft - I’m going to let it sit for another 30 minutes and then reread it |
| 21:56 | see if it makes sense | |
| 21:58 | rangi | thanks bag |
| 21:58 | bag++ | |
| 22:05 | drojf | i thought we'll vote in may |
| 22:07 | it says so in the agenda too ;) | |
| 22:12 | cait | hm the routing list slip has a badly formatted date |
| 22:12 | and i can't locate the code for it? gr. | |
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| 22:23 | drojf | night |
| 22:26 | bag | Ginny just ran in and said - Hi birdie daddy… today she is a baby bird |
| 22:26 | rangi | heh |
| 22:26 | bag | ever changing animal that one - the imagination has kicked in |
| 22:28 | wizzyrea | this is a phase that may or may not end :) |
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| 22:34 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 22:34 | tcohen | hi |
| 22:34 | wahanui | hello, tcohen |
| 22:36 | dac | Being a bird would be sweet! |
| 22:36 | Depending on the bird... you can walk, swim, and fly | |
| 22:36 | Sounds like a super species to me | |
| 22:36 | Just saying | |
| 22:38 | tcohen | hi dcook |
| 22:39 | dcook | hey tcohen :) |
| 22:44 | cait | hi tcohen :) |
| 22:44 | bag | I would choose the super power of flying over swimming |
| 22:45 | birds are the one animal that are everywhere - every habitat etc | |
| 22:46 | eythian | tardigrades moreso |
| 22:50 | dcook | Good ol' tardigrades |
| 22:52 | cait | night #koha |
| 22:52 | mario left #koha | |
| 22:53 | eythian | hi cait |
| 22:53 | bye cait | |
| 22:54 | cait left #koha | |
| 23:01 | cait | bye eythian :-P |
| 23:01 | eythian | weirdo :) |
| 23:02 | tcohen | disturbingly busy day |
| 23:05 | dcook | lol |
| 23:18 | bag | cait: done |
| 23:18 | oh whoops cait is gone | |
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