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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | eythian | hi tcohen |
| 00:00 | * tcohen | accidentally deleted Ender's game copy |
| 00:00 | tcohen | hmm |
| 00:02 | * tcohen | thinks is not a big loss, though |
| 00:02 | rocio left #koha | |
| 00:02 | rangi | heh |
| 00:03 | * tcohen | should grab a Xenoxide's copy to read this weekend |
| 00:03 | tcohen | what are those places where people pick books named? |
| 00:04 | eythian | Bookpickeries |
| 00:05 | tcohen | ah, that |
| 00:05 | wahanui | ah, that is, like, just to say that everything should be on one line |
| 00:06 | tcohen | should check if there exists some system they use to xpose their catalog, online |
| 00:07 | rangi: i found eventbase to have a limited functionality | |
| 00:07 | at least the free edition | |
| 00:07 | will complete the schedule there | |
| 00:07 | rangi | ahhh the old freemium trick eh |
| 00:08 | tcohen | it is uncomfortable to set, but its pretty neat once you see it on the mobile app |
| 00:08 | rangi | is eventbrite any better? |
| 00:08 | sweet | |
| 00:09 | tcohen | if evenbrite has a way to change the user's password, that's a win heh |
| 00:09 | rangi | hehe |
| 00:09 | tcohen | will try evenbrite tomorrow with bgkriegel |
| 00:11 | rangi | ive never tried to set up either so i have no idea |
| 01:37 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 02:03 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 03:15 | eythian | @wunder nzwn |
| 03:15 | huginn | eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (3:00 PM NZST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Falling). |
| 03:28 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 04:12 | aleisha joined #koha | |
| 04:22 | rangi | aleisha: 12281, 12959, 12893, 12775, 12944 |
| 04:52 | http://www.pressreader.com/bookmark/EGG26VFDWDV/ does this url work? | |
| 04:58 | ibeardslee | seems to |
| 05:10 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:13 | rangi | eythian: does your elasticsearch code use teh SearchEngine syspref anywhere? |
| 05:13 | eythian | yep |
| 05:14 | rangi | thats the only bit of 12538 that overlaps i think |
| 05:14 | ill sign it off, and note that | |
| 05:14 | its just a database update taht removes that variable | |
| 05:14 | eythian | I expect there will be quite a few conflicts. |
| 05:15 | I'm planning to manually apply the patch and revert back the bits I want to keep. | |
| 05:15 | rangi | sounds good |
| 05:21 | cait | aleisha? |
| 05:22 | i saw your comment on bug 12281 - i think maybe easier to download some records that are cataloged that way | |
| 05:22 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12281 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , RTL display for records using 880 broken in Bootstrap |
| 05:24 | aleisha | thanks cait i'll try that! |
| 05:24 | cait | thx for taking a look :) |
| 05:25 | it's something not a lot of libaries use, but quite important to this one :) | |
| 05:31 | aleisha | so then what do i do after I've imported it into the catalog? |
| 05:31 | cait | hm wait until it's indexed an dthen go to the detail page |
| 05:32 | it should look like in the catalog link, without the patch the script all runs to gether and is not on the other side | |
| 05:32 | rangi | i wonder how often the sandboxes index? |
| 05:32 | cait | rangi: hm not sure |
| 05:32 | for the result list it needs to be reindexed to see it... else we could change an existing record | |
| 05:32 | rangi | you can get to the detail page without it being indexed though eh? |
| 05:33 | ah right | |
| 05:33 | cait | the problem is on result too, but you'd see the effect on deail immediately i think |
| 05:33 | yo could use the link from th estaged import to get there | |
| 05:34 | aleisha | the link is clickable but doesn't take me anywhere |
| 05:35 | cait | hm there should be 2 links i think, one to open the record as marc (from the title) and the biblionumber at the end of the table |
| 05:35 | the last should open in a new window i think | |
| 05:37 | * magnus_away | waves |
| 05:39 | aleisha | cait is this what it's supposed to look like? http://pro.test14.biblibre.com[…]pl?biblionumber=9 |
| 05:39 | magnuse | rangi++ x100 for signing off bug 11401 |
| 05:39 | cait | i think it might index every 10 minutes if we are lucky |
| 05:39 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11401 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Signed Off , Add support for Norwegian national library card |
| 05:40 | cait | aleisha: sec, i have to look up the password |
| 05:40 | rangi | magnuse: no worries |
| 05:40 | cait | ah |
| 05:41 | you need to turn on the xslt display - i thougth that was on by default | |
| 05:41 | rangi | cait: only on new installs i think |
| 05:41 | cait | inthe system preferences - look for xslt |
| 05:42 | rangi: makes sense | |
| 05:43 | aleisha | ah yes that's more like it |
| 05:44 | i can sign that one off now :) | |
| 05:45 | cait | cool :) |
| 05:45 | magnuse | aleisha++ |
| 05:45 | cait | thank you! |
| 05:45 | aleisha++ | |
| 05:48 | magnuse joined #koha | |
| 05:52 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 05:58 | magnuse | at opl we are thinking about creating a standardized dev environment to make it as easy as possible to get up and running with development/testing patches. something like using vagrant to create a virtualbox with a working dev install, git bz, the qa tools etc. anyone else considered something like that? or interested in it? |
| 05:59 | eythian | it seems like a good idea. |
| 06:00 | That's about as much as I can contribute :) | |
| 06:03 | ashimema | good morning |
| 06:05 | magnuse.. what extra's are you envisioning getting from that vs the sandboxes? | |
| 06:05 | anything beyond the ability to test a few extra patches that the sandboxes don't cope well with? | |
| 06:08 | magnuse | well, we'd use it for development too |
| 06:09 | the main point would be to be able to have a um, "pristine" environment to work in, quickly | |
| 06:09 | ashimema | in which case, I'm all for it.. |
| 06:09 | I do similar with a bash script at the moment.. | |
| 06:10 | magnuse | when i had trouble with my gitified setup the last couple of weeks it was caused by something i tested, it would have saved me a lot of time if could just have scrapped my current setup and got a new one with a couple clicks |
| 06:10 | ashimema: cool | |
| 06:10 | ashimema | once you have a debian installed with a root account, I run my script and it adds appropriate users, grabs koha master, installs it, sets up git-bz, qa tools, vim plugins etc.. |
| 06:10 | though I think at the moment it's set to do a gitified dev env.. | |
| 06:11 | I'm tempted to swap back to a non-gitified | |
| 06:11 | magnuse | ashimema: sounds good |
| 06:11 | yeah, i cant quite decide between gitified and a tradtitional dev install either | |
| 06:11 | ashimema | I could sanitize my script and stick it on github if you like? |
| 06:11 | magnuse | that would be awesome! |
| 06:12 | ashimema | gitified is certainly quick and easy to get up and running.. |
| 06:12 | but it deffo has it's flaws still | |
| 06:12 | magnuse | yup |
| 06:13 | especially for testing things like zebra config, right? | |
| 06:13 | ashimema | yeah.. gitified is a bit of a mare for that sort of stuff |
| 06:14 | gets in the way rather than making things easier. | |
| 06:15 | magnuse | whereas with a trad dev install you can do make upgrade |
| 06:15 | ashimema | yup.. |
| 06:15 | it's easy to get out of sync with a gitified install.. | |
| 06:16 | I've often run into issues where my background scripts are running off one set of code at one version.. and the rest is running off the clone.. | |
| 06:16 | and it leads to all sorts of wierdness | |
| 06:16 | * magnuse | can only imagine |
| 06:24 | ashimema | https://github.com/mrenvoize/koha-dev |
| 06:24 | it's a hackish script as it wasn't ever really intended for anyone to see it ;) | |
| 06:24 | but it works ;) and has been slowly evolving for a while now. | |
| 06:25 | that is the gitified version.. seems the non-gitified version ahs dissapeared into history somewhere.. | |
| 06:25 | I remember it taking allot more steps to work through with more human interactions.. | |
| 06:25 | feel free to take it a buthcer it thoguh ;) | |
| 06:26 | magnuse | ashimema++ for sharing! |
| 06:28 | cait | byeall |
| 06:29 | no work today, but will try to be here for the meeting :) | |
| 06:29 | cait left #koha | |
| 06:29 | magnuse | eythian: i seem to recall you saying it is a good idea to have a dedicated virtualbox for building packages, because if anything goes wrong, it can go really wrong? |
| 06:29 | ashimema | I have a dedicated machine for building and hosting my packages.. |
| 06:30 | so far so good ;) | |
| 06:30 | I think eythian goes a step further and has a dedicated place to build them.. then he uploads to a repo to server them | |
| 06:31 | magnuse | a dedicated place, like a separate building or something? |
| 06:31 | * magnuse | imagines eythian's underground package building bunker |
| 06:32 | ashimema | haha,. |
| 06:36 | * ashimema | likes irc channels where the lead dev hangs out.. #mojo is great |
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| 06:39 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:40 | magnuse | ooh some nice comment spam on http://koha-community.org/ |
| 06:42 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 06:43 | magnuse | @later tell gmcharlt is it too late to fix bug 12883 "Holds tab on checkout screen never stops processing" in 3.16.4? |
| 06:43 | huginn | magnuse: The operation succeeded. |
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| 06:50 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 06:51 | khall joined #koha | |
| 06:57 | Viktor joined #koha | |
| 06:59 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 07:13 | Joubu | hello |
| 07:15 | magnuse | bonjour Joubu |
| 07:15 | @wunder boo | |
| 07:15 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 3.0°C (8:50 AM CEST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). |
| 07:15 | magnuse | @wunder marseille |
| 07:15 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 15.1°C (9:05 AM CEST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Rising). |
| 07:15 | magnuse | hm... |
| 07:15 | ashimema | @wunder stevenage, uk |
| 07:15 | huginn | ashimema: The current temperature in Pin Green, Stevenage, United Kingdom is 10.9°C (8:10 AM BST on September 23, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady). |
| 07:21 | ashimema | bracing day there magnus |
| 07:24 | alex_a_ joined #koha | |
| 07:36 | sophie_m1 joined #koha | |
| 07:39 | magnuse | ashimema: yeah, i think winter might be approaching... there was fresh snow in the mountains yesterday |
| 07:41 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 07:41 | fridolin | Hie all |
| 07:47 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 08:06 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 08:21 | Joubu | too bad, nobody updated the dbic wiki page :-( |
| 08:21 | ashimema | ? |
| 08:21 | what page Joubu? | |
| 08:22 | Joubu | ashimema: I sent an email yesterday on the ml |
| 08:22 | ashimema: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]scussion_overview | |
| 08:22 | ashimema | ah.. not read mail yet.. sorry |
| 08:24 | Joubu | gmcharlt, rangi, khall: It would be awesome to see your points of view/notes added to the wiki page I created today (http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]cussion_overview). I think we need a quick overview of our problems for the meeting (this afternoon) |
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| 11:57 | oleonard | Hi #koha |
| 11:57 | sophie_m1 joined #koha | |
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| 12:44 | * magnuse | gotta run |
| 12:44 | * ashimema | needs some lunch |
| 12:45 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 12:50 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:50 | tcohen | morning! |
| 12:50 | kmlussier joined #koha | |
| 12:52 | oleonard | Hi tcohen |
| 12:54 | ashimema | hello |
| 12:54 | tcohen | i haven't heard from galne |
| 12:54 | galen, or kyle | |
| 12:54 | once i get their feedback | |
| 12:54 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 12:55 | tcohen | we will coordinate releases |
| 12:55 | fridolin | ok |
| 12:56 | ashimema | does anyone know if the upgrade path between 3.14 and 3.16 has been fixed.. hat nasty db issues |
| 12:56 | i colleague came accross is again this morning in 3.16.3 | |
| 12:56 | fridolin | ashimema: you mean pb with Bug 7372 ? |
| 12:56 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7372 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , RoadTypes should be folded into Authorised Values |
| 12:57 | ashimema | that was the one ;) |
| 12:57 | Joubu | ashimema: I submitted a patch on it |
| 12:57 | ashimema | Thanks Joubu |
| 12:57 | Joubu | tcohen: you should have a look at this patch |
| 13:16 | oleonard | There should be a check in the qa tools for "javascript:void(0)" |
| 13:17 | cait | oleonard: can you tell a bit more about it? i can look out for it |
| 13:18 | oleonard | '<a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick=...' It's usually used as a way to fake a "return false" on a link click |
| 13:18 | It's an obsolete way of doing things | |
| 13:18 | cait | Joubu: could you add a check? |
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| 13:41 | indradg | good evening #koha |
| 13:51 | oleonard | So Bug 12755 didn't exist when I tested and signed off on Bug 10558, but now it does... |
| 13:51 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12755 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC Preview doesn't always display in managed MARC record |
| 13:52 | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10558 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED FIXED, Convert records table in manage-marc-import.pl to ajax DataTable | |
| 13:56 | indradg | is the mailman list manager having issues?? |
| 13:57 | I seem to be missing a few mail lately | |
| 14:02 | oleonard | indradg: I regularly find Koha list messages marked as spam. Could that be it? |
| 14:04 | Ack, Bug 12755 is MY fault! | |
| 14:04 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=12755 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , MARC Preview doesn't always display in managed MARC record |
| 14:04 | * oleonard | falls on his sword |
| 14:04 | cait | noooooooo! |
| 14:05 | * cait | jumps between oleonard and the sword |
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| 14:05 | cait | we can't lose you... or koha would turn out as ugly as.... |
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| 15:00 | * cait | waves |
| 15:00 | reiveune | bye |
| 15:00 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 15:02 | cait | hmmm |
| 15:03 | isn't it time? | |
| 15:03 | tcohen | it is |
| 15:03 | ashimema | i beleive it is. |
| 15:04 | * tcohen | is trying to find the meeting commands |
| 15:04 | ashimema | hehe... |
| 15:04 | we've not used the proper vote syntax for a while.. | |
| 15:04 | cait | you are looking for #startmeeting topic |
| 15:05 | ashimema | just a random observation.. I can never remember the syntax for it |
| 15:05 | cait | ashimema: same here :) |
| 15:05 | meliss left #koha | |
| 15:05 | tcohen | #startmeeting Development IRC meeting, 23 September 2014: DBIC |
| 15:06 | huginn | Meeting started Tue Sep 23 15:06:00 2014 UTC. The chair is tcohen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 15:06 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 15:06 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 23 September 2014: DBIC) | |
| 15:06 | huginn | The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting__23_september_2014__dbic' |
| 15:06 | gmcharlt | good morning |
| 15:06 | tcohen | #topic Introductions |
| 15:06 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 23 September 2014: DBIC) | |
| 15:06 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 15:06 | cait | good morning gmcharlt |
| 15:06 | tcohen | please introduce yourselves using #info name |
| 15:06 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe |
| 15:06 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 15:06 | tcohen | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba |
| 15:06 | ColinC | #info Colin Campbell PTFS Europe Ltd |
| 15:07 | bgkriegel_ joined #koha | |
| 15:07 | ashimema | do we need to ping ribasushi at some point ;) |
| 15:07 | gmcharlt | #info Galen Charlton, Equinox |
| 15:07 | bgkriegel_ | hi |
| 15:07 | #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel | |
| 15:07 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre |
| 15:08 | tcohen | ok |
| 15:08 | jcamins | #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services |
| 15:09 | tcohen | khall? |
| 15:10 | ok | |
| 15:10 | This is an unusual meeting | |
| 15:10 | to talk about a specific subject | |
| 15:10 | #topic RM introduction | |
| 15:10 | Topic for #koha is now RM introduction (Meeting topic: Development IRC meeting, 23 September 2014: DBIC) | |
| 15:11 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries |
| 15:11 | tcohen | The main subject is our adoption of DBIC, and how we do it |
| 15:11 | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]scussion_overview | |
| 15:12 | the main discussion is related to how much stuff we expect DBIC to provide, and how to do it | |
| 15:12 | there are mainly two discussed POV | |
| 15:13 | on the one hand (a) benefit from DBIC magic, and put (some degree) of business logic into it | |
| 15:14 | and on the other (b) relying on the ORM only for abstracting the DB and using it to implement our own API in which business logic should be put | |
| 15:14 | this issue is related to point (1) on th elink | |
| 15:15 | I've already expressed that my personal POV is that we should keep the current way of using DBIC | |
| 15:15 | i.e. using it inside modules, that can be unit tested | |
| 15:16 | fridolin | +1 for UT |
| 15:16 | gmcharlt | hmm |
| 15:16 | I think that point perhaps could be clarified - may I go through a somewhat lengthly example? | |
| 15:17 | tcohen | please |
| 15:17 | ashimema | go for it |
| 15:17 | gmcharlt | OK, so when we are talking about business logic, there are at least two ways in can manifest itself |
| 15:17 | fridolin | point 1 : i think since there are aleardy modules nammed nearly like a db table (ie C4/Borrowers.pm), I'll vote for a) |
| 15:18 | gmcharlt | umm, may I please have the floor |
| 15:18 | fridolin | yep sorry |
| 15:18 | tcohen | :) |
| 15:18 | gmcharlt | so, one way business logic can manifest is as attributes of the underlying entities that we're dealing with |
| 15:18 | so take, for example, item records | |
| 15:19 | one way of modeling an item record is to follow the DB schema closely | |
| 15:19 | on the assumption that we've done a reasonably good job with our relational model | |
| 15:19 | which, in many places, we have | |
| 15:19 | in others, we haven't | |
| 15:19 | but let's stick with items for now | |
| 15:20 | one thing we could say is that, OK, a Koha::Schema::Result::Item is a decent base class for an item record | |
| 15:21 | but that it doesn't /exactly/ give everything we need to ask of any item record | |
| 15:21 | and the big example is ->effective_itemtype | |
| 15:22 | there's a bit of business logic there, as of course the effective item type for circ polices depends on the item-level_itypes system preference | |
| 15:22 | but it's somethat that can be well-encapsulated as (effectively) an attribute of K::S::R::Item | |
| 15:22 | and there's a lot going for that approach | |
| 15:23 | 1. it is definitely testable -- there's nothing stopping unit tests from being written on K::S::R::* objects | |
| 15:24 | 2. it gives a *single* place to ask the question - "what is the effective item type of an item?" | |
| 15:24 | so in that respect, I quite like it | |
| 15:24 | next, I'm going to move on to an example where things are less clear-cut | |
| 15:24 | namely, bibs | |
| 15:25 | so, as everybody here knows, you need to look at both biblio and biblioitems to get all of the info regarding a bib entity | |
| 15:25 | (and of course, that represents drift from Koha's original quasi-FRBR model, but that's in the past, water under the bridge, etc.) | |
| 15:26 | but the upshot - this is an example where the current relational data model is flawed for our current purposes | |
| 15:26 | as if you start from a K::S::R::Biblio object ... you have to go through some convulations to get at everything you might want to ask of a bib record object | |
| 15:27 | now you /could/ do things like add K::S::R::Biblio->marc to grab the MARC record | |
| 15:27 | and so on... but that's stretching things | |
| 15:27 | and it's vulnerabile to cases where we would want to redo the data structure | |
| 15:27 | (which, we probably want to do in the long run) | |
| 15:28 | so there, I think the situation calls for (say) a Koha::Biblio object that can be *composed* of (say) a K::S::R::Biblio and a K::S::R::bibioitems object | |
| 15:29 | but if we right such a class ... it would be useful to delegate as much to the underlying K::S::R attribute methods as possible | |
| 15:29 | partcularly when we want to start traveling to related objects like items | |
| 15:30 | so, now I'm going to move on to my third (and final) example | |
| 15:30 | and that's business logic that pretty much doesn't naturally look like an attribute of an object | |
| 15:30 | for example: the question of calculating the due date of a new loan | |
| 15:31 | now you can envision procedural code | |
| 15:31 | e.g., my $due_date = Koha::Loans::get_due_date($patron, $item) | |
| 15:31 | or a more OO approach | |
| 15:31 | my $loan = Koha::Loans->new($patron, $item) | |
| 15:32 | where, in effect, the constructor of that object does things like calculate the due date | |
| 15:32 | (and throw exceptions if the loan is against policy) | |
| 15:33 | but however you do it, the upshot is that it wouldn't be a good idea to add lots of methods to Koha::S::R::Issue to try to do all of this | |
| 15:33 | but rather, build a new class | |
| 15:33 | (or build procedural code) | |
| 15:33 | so what I've done so far is provided three examples of the sort of business logic we have to deal with | |
| 15:33 | cait | thx gmcharlt - that#s really helpful |
| 15:33 | gmcharlt | next, I'm going to talk about testing |
| 15:34 | first, I submit that it doesn't matter for the prupose of being able to test things whether code exists as a K::S::R method or as a K::Object method to be reachable for testing | |
| 15:34 | either way, it can be tested | |
| 15:35 | IOW, I'm sayng that how we decide the DBIC usage questions need not be inlfuenced all that much by testing concerns | |
| 15:35 | as we have both db-dependent and non-db-dependent ways of testing | |
| 15:35 | * tcohen | agrees |
| 15:35 | gmcharlt | so as far as my current thinking on the overall matter is concerned |
| 15:36 | 1. I dislike adding layers of classes needlessly -- in particular, if a K::S::R object represents an entity adequately, I see no reason not to use it as a base class or a very thinly-encapsulated entity | |
| 15:37 | e.g., K::S::R::Item->effective_itemtype is a good example | |
| 15:38 | 2. Not *everything* can be done that way -- e.g., I would call for a Koha::Biblio class to be written that (among other things) contains K::S::R::Biblio and K::S::R::Biblioitems objects, and makes some effort to hide the details of those tables | |
| 15:38 | as we KNOW that those tables are eventually going to significantly change | |
| 15:39 | so the upshot: on question #1, I fall firmly in the middle | |
| 15:39 | now we may want to provide some syntactic sugar to the reduce the typing to instantiant a K::S::R object | |
| 15:40 | but for areas where our data model is good -- I think a lot can be done by adding attribute methods to the underlying K::S::R classes | |
| 15:41 | and (to answer in part a question that cait had asked me) borrowers is an example where the database schema mostly matches how we view the objects | |
| 15:41 | so I think that for now K::S::R::Borrowers would be a good base class | |
| 15:42 | now that's not to say that we couldn't have a Koha::Borrowers, but for now it shoudl delegate/pass along as much as psosible to K::S::R::Borrowers | |
| 15:42 | cait | hm so we would put something there that pulls information from ohter tables as well? |
| 15:42 | sorry i am still trying to wrap my mind around it :) | |
| 15:42 | gmcharlt | well, K::S::R via DBIC does that for us for free |
| 15:43 | tcohen | welcome ribasushi |
| 15:43 | cait | so it would get the extended patron attributes etc. |
| 15:43 | gmcharlt | at least in the cases where the underlying tables have FK relationsips |
| 15:43 | cait | ok thx :) |
| 15:43 | gmcharlt | as far as our quesinon #6 is concerned -- I'm not a fan of a Koha::Object and/or Koha::Object::Set as a universal base class |
| 15:43 | too much weight | |
| 15:44 | if anything should be a universal base class, I'd go for Class::Accessor | |
| 15:44 | and thus ends my monologue for now | |
| 15:44 | but to summarize: I'm suggesting a hybrid approach, one of whose big advantages is that it will allow us to continue to switch thigns over to using DBIC incrementally | |
| 15:45 | * gmcharlt | goes under his desk to look for his hands, which have fallen off |
| 15:45 | tcohen | other opinions please? |
| 15:45 | * cait | helps searching... hard to put a hand back on with no hands... |
| 15:47 | Joubu | gmcharlt: how do implement set/list? |
| 15:47 | ashimema | I think gmcharlt described it pretty succinctly really. |
| 15:47 | Joubu | you* |
| 15:48 | gmcharlt | Joubu: one moment before I answer you, want to check something |
| 15:50 | Joubu | rangi: around? if I remember correctly you was not fond of extending K::S::R into "Koha::Object" |
| 15:50 | gmcharlt | Joubu: so for now, my view is to use DBIC::ResultSet where possible |
| 15:51 | tcohen | gmcharlt: even on front end stuff like the .pl scripts¿ |
| 15:51 | cait | Joubu: 3 am in nz i think :( |
| 15:51 | ColinC | Yes it makes for clear robust code |
| 15:51 | gmcharlt | provide constructures where needed so that you can (say) take a Koha::S::R::Biblio and initiatialize a Koha::Biblio object from it |
| 15:51 | and uses plain old arrays and hashes for sets ;) | |
| 15:52 | * jcamins | agrees with gmcharlt on everything that gmcharlt said. |
| 15:52 | gmcharlt | and as far as the scripts are concerned... yeah, I personally have no problem fetching data directly using DBIC in them |
| 15:52 | Joubu | ok, my fieling is the same, except I would create a Koha::Biblios or Koha::Biblio::Set |
| 15:53 | gmcharlt | but the key thing is this: the scripts should be focused on GETTING the objects, but they wouldn't be doing much if any business logic |
| 15:53 | and where possible, would be passing the K::S::R and K::* objects directly to the template so that the TT code can take care of fetching attributes for display | |
| 15:53 | Joubu | gmcharlt: do you have a poc to show us? A class with search+crud? |
| 15:54 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I disagree in the general case -- i.e., I wouldn't want to see a Koha::Vendor::Set or the like |
| 15:54 | however, catalog searches are a special case | |
| 15:55 | tcohen | patron searches? |
| 15:55 | gmcharlt | i.e., I could certainly see a Koha::CatalogSearchResultSet class |
| 15:55 | Joubu | "passing the K::S::R and K::* objects directly to the template" => to me, we should not manipulate both. Only Koha::* |
| 15:55 | manipulate in pl | |
| 15:55 | ColinC | No need for a Set object you just have a set of object much as ResultSet itself is a set of objs |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I think our main difference of opinion is that I think K::S::R objects should be used when they suffice, and that Koha::* classes should be created when they are necessary, but that we can do both and be happy |
| 15:57 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I just want consistency, I would like to create all objects using the same way |
| 15:57 | gmcharlt | from the POV of the templates, either way it's going to look like [% object.attribute %] anyway |
| 15:57 | Joubu | my $patron = Koha::Patron->new($patron_info)->insert |
| 15:58 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I want consistent *interfaces* for accessors -- I care much less about the base class |
| 15:58 | ColinC | From the callers vire both should look the same |
| 15:58 | Joubu | and @patrons = Koha::PatronSet->search(name => 'smith') |
| 15:58 | s/PatronSet/WhatYouWant | |
| 15:59 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I don't want to (or want anybody) to have to write 100+ sets of boilerplate objects to do that when K::S::R can handle that for most objects |
| 15:59 | HOWEVER | |
| 16:00 | tcohen | I don't like the hybrid approach: when does it suffice to use K::S::R? |
| 16:00 | gmcharlt | there might be the possibility of some AUTOLOAD magic |
| 16:00 | tcohen: items, for now | |
| 16:00 | but to continue my thought | |
| 16:01 | there might be the possibility of some AUTOLOAD magic or the like so that we can chop out the "Schema::Result" part of the names to use the DBIC classes directly | |
| 16:01 | and where needed, e.g., Koha::Biblio, override when something that's hand-constructed | |
| 16:02 | Joubu | (11518 (effective_itemtype) still NSO, for 6months, and we didn't get enough thoughts) |
| 16:03 | cait | i think we becasue we needed ot have this discussion - hopefully the bugs stuck now can then start moving forward |
| 16:04 | Joubu | I really would like to see how you (everybody) would like to write code in pl file. It's clear to me, but I didn't get ideas/thoughts from others. Don't you have a POC/try somewhere to show? |
| 16:04 | I think it's the first question to consider | |
| 16:05 | When we answered, we should try to have a consistent, simple, easy to use and flexible API | |
| 16:07 | hum, ping? | |
| 16:07 | wahanui | Using deft allegory, the authors have provided an insightful and intuitive explanation of one of Unix's most venerable networking utilities. http://www.amazon.com/Story-ab[…]oks/dp/0448421658 |
| 16:08 | tcohen | i'm here |
| 16:08 | ColinC | been using dbic and its nice to have a consitent reliable approach where we need classes that span tables like biblio the api should be as similar as possible |
| 16:08 | cait | i think the dual approach makes sense tome, but it might be hard to judge at times which route is better |
| 16:09 | tcohen | i think in the long run we will have a better model, which makes DBIC classes represent our objects better |
| 16:09 | BUT | |
| 16:09 | we will still need to put business logic on top of that | |
| 16:09 | and in that case, extending Koha::Schema::ResultSet::* should be the way to go | |
| 16:10 | we could think Koha::Biblio makes sense "only" because of a bad underlying model | |
| 16:11 | if we can rely on DBIC for everything | |
| 16:12 | gmcharlt | right - my inclination is to have the RDBMS model match the desired class structure where possible |
| 16:12 | but knowing that it it won't be always possible | |
| 16:13 | as far as Joubu's question is concerned - well, current DBIC use in scripts like admin/categorie.pl isn't actually horrid, but I would grant that it's certainly verbose | |
| 16:13 | the trick would be improving that without burying the DBIC classes udner too many layers | |
| 16:14 | tcohen | by *too many* you mean one, right? |
| 16:14 | gmcharlt | yep, if we can avoid it :) |
| 16:15 | Joubu | it's for the lisiblity, maintenability |
| 16:15 | s/lisibility/readability | |
| 16:16 | Does nobody want to write some code? | |
| 16:17 | just some lines here? | |
| 16:18 | tcohen | any more comments/opinions? |
| 16:20 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I'm not sure you get to make demands on anybody's time but your own -- but I think I have some ideas on how to implemnt some concision |
| 16:20 | tcohen | ok, i think we have exhausted the discussion for now. I'll try to sumarize on the wiki Joubu set for this topic |
| 16:20 | gmcharlt | in the meantime, I've got more utf8 test cases to write today |
| 16:20 | tcohen | :-D |
| 16:21 | gmcharlt: do u have some sample test we can take a look at? | |
| 16:21 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I just would like to know how continue to develop |
| 16:21 | gmcharlt | utf8 test cases first, then we'll see |
| 16:21 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I had some tries, but they seem to be bad. |
| 16:22 | tcohen | Joubu: you're talking about using DBIC? |
| 16:22 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I don't ask a lot. Just how instanciate an object, save it. And possibly a search |
| 16:23 | gmcharlt | Joubu: I know; I'll get to it, but I'm not making promises as to when |
| 16:23 | Joubu | I need to unfreeze this situation |
| 16:23 | s/I/We | |
| 16:23 | gmcharlt | I don't disagree |
| 16:23 | I think the discussion today has been helpful | |
| 16:23 | and should get even more help when the NZers weigh in | |
| 16:24 | IOW, I think we're making progress, as slow as it may seem | |
| 16:24 | Joubu++ # keeping at it | |
| 16:25 | tcohen | ok, i think the meeting concluded |
| 16:25 | Joubu | There are tries on 12830, 12896, 8007, 10363 |
| 16:25 | tcohen | some more thoughts will be expressed later |
| 16:26 | Joubu | so all approches is bad, and I will try something else |
| 16:26 | tcohen | and we will work on this in person, during the hackfest |
| 16:26 | I encourage people that disagrees with a specific dev approach, to make it explicit | |
| 16:26 | Joubu | or 1 is good, and it would be good to know :) |
| 16:26 | tcohen | how it should be done |
| 16:26 | cait | i think the hackfest will be a chance and we can post the code for others to look at |
| 16:26 | Joubu | http://www.gliffy.com/go/publish/6160409 |
| 16:27 | tcohen | because otherwise it discourages participation |
| 16:27 | gmcharlt | Joubu: on a completely different topic, I just now learned of a code2bib French mailing list... is it like code4lib? |
| 16:27 | Joubu | for information, maybe not a lot of people is aware of that. |
| 16:27 | gmcharlt: what the name of the ml? | |
| 16:27 | is* | |
| 16:28 | gmcharlt | Joubu: code2bib |
| 16:28 | tcohen | ok, thanks every1 |
| 16:28 | #endmeeting | |
| 16:28 | Topic for #koha is now Next dev meeting is 16 September 2014 at 15:00 and 22:00 UTC. Welcome to the IRC home of Koha http://koha-community.org. Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for pastes. | |
| 16:28 | huginn | Meeting ended Tue Sep 23 16:28:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:28 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-09-23-15.06.html | |
| 16:28 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-09-23-15.06.txt | |
| 16:28 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]23-15.06.log.html | |
| 16:28 | gmcharlt | Joubu: https://groupes.renater.fr/sympa/info/code2bib - I think |
| 16:28 | ribasushi | folks, hi |
| 16:28 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I don't know, Paul follows it, not me |
| 16:28 | ribasushi | I am really sorry I couldn't make it, delayed train :( |
| 16:28 | I am here now if of any use | |
| 16:29 | Joubu | ribasushi: you can have a look at the minutes if you want :) |
| 16:29 | ribasushi | link? |
| 16:29 | wahanui | somebody said link was broken. Also, we don't know what tools you're using to create the marc, but there is probably an option in that tool. |
| 16:29 | ashimema | we haven't done an end meeting yet |
| 16:29 | oleonard | Yeah-huh. |
| 16:29 | gmcharlt | ribasushi: http://meetings.koha-community[…]23-15.06.log.html |
| 16:29 | tcohen | http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-09-23-15.06.txt |
| 16:30 | Joubu | ashimema: yes, just before ribasushi said hi :) |
| 16:30 | ashimema | oh yeah.. |
| 16:30 | missed it | |
| 16:30 | cait | Joubu: what's the pic made with? it looks interesting |
| 16:30 | oh | |
| 16:30 | with gliffy | |
| 16:30 | ok | |
| 16:31 | tcohen | ribasushi: we have splitted opinions on how show the ORM be used on the project |
| 16:31 | Joubu | cait: I made it to show how apply a patch, for testers. There are too many deps, and it's hard to see what apply when you are on a bug report. |
| 16:31 | tcohen | i'm sorry, i have to leave now |
| 16:31 | Joubu | cait: it's non pushed patches |
| 16:32 | and it's just the plumbing... | |
| 16:32 | cait | i know, big project |
| 16:32 | I saw paola tackled some of it:) | |
| 16:32 | i hope after 26th i can do more again | |
| 16:33 | i have the exam this and a presentation next week... and then the trip, finding time is too had right now | |
| 16:34 | fridolin | thanks for this meeting |
| 16:34 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 16:35 | ribasushi | tcohen: I will read backlog and write a summary for Joubu |
| 16:35 | once again sorry for not making it, pesky deutchebanhn | |
| 16:37 | cait | ribasushi: oh, you are in Germany? :) |
| 16:38 | Joubu | thanks ribasushi! |
| 16:40 | ribasushi | yes I am |
| 16:40 | sorry need to attend to something else first, be with you in 30 mins folks | |
| 16:42 | cait | ribasushi: me too :) thx for helping us out |
| 16:44 | ColinC left #koha | |
| 16:53 | Joubu | gmcharlt: sorry, I forgot your question about code2lib. So yes it is a "french local group of code4lib" (from the link you sent me) |
| 17:18 | gmcharlt | Joubu: thanks |
| 17:46 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 17:46 | oleonard | Patron attribute type limitation by category seems to be broken |
| 17:48 | cait | oleonard: oh :( where are you looking? |
| 17:48 | and did it save correctly? i think sometimes it does not if you create a patron category from scratch | |
| 17:51 | oleonard | I created a new patron attribute type and chose one patron category to limit it to. When I go to add a patron with that category the patron attribute type doesn't show up. |
| 17:52 | Only if I remove the category restriction does the patron attribute entry field appear. | |
| 17:54 | cait | ah, i was thiking patron categories, got confused |
| 17:54 | sorry | |
| 17:54 | i somehow thought about patron categories and branch limists | |
| 18:04 | cbrannon joined #koha | |
| 18:09 | wnickc joined #koha | |
| 18:20 | oleonard | Oh hey someone commenting on the K-C web site also checks website posts there in the early hours in the dawn as they love to learn more and more |
| 18:21 | * oleonard | would be happy to help delete comment spam on K-C web site if someone gave him the proper permissions |
| 18:22 | wonders if wizzyrea is the only one who can do that | |
| 18:22 | tcohen | whic comment? |
| 18:23 | oleonard | http://koha-community.org/koha[…]-1/#comment-54924 |
| 18:23 | cait | oleonard: hm don't know but i think she turned off the comments on most sites now |
| 18:23 | there was some dicussion about that some days ago i think | |
| 18:23 | hm maybe only for new posts? | |
| 18:27 | tcohen | which comment? |
| 18:27 | wahanui | which comment are you refuting? |
| 18:28 | oleonard | tcohen: http://koha-community.org/koha[…]-1/#comment-54924 |
| 18:29 | tcohen | i was kidding, i've just flaged it as spam |
| 18:48 | * oleonard | submits a patch for his patron attribute type bug |
| 18:52 | huginn | New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 12162 - Add class="branchcode" to body tag to make OPAC CSS-styleable per branch <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]2473793c83057a64f> / Bug 11672: (followup) warnings tested <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]0ad439967e2035c5c> / Bug 11672: Untranslatable dropdown on Guided Reports and dictionary <http://git.koha-c |
| 18:58 | tcohen | bye #koha |
| 18:58 | oleonard | Bye tcohen |
| 18:58 | * oleonard | is off as well |
| 19:18 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 19:42 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 19:54 | rangi | @later tell oleonard comments are off for new posts, old ones will switch off after 30 days or so ill kill that spam in the meantime, comments on the site are not really useful |
| 19:54 | huginn | rangi: The operation succeeded. |
| 19:56 | rangi | and fwiw im against coupling objects tightly with the db, because the db wont always be there in its current state, and 2 we might want to cache objects a lot more than we do now, im mostly in the middle but lean more to Koha::Item than Koha::Schema::Resultset::Item .. because im not sure i want to add a caching layer to DBIx::Class level code .. however working code wins, probably time to finish the discussion and write code |
| 20:55 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 21:17 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 21:59 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 22:01 | oleonard | Hi again #koha |
| 22:03 | rangi | heya oleonard |
| 22:03 | wahanui | somebody said oleonard was still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer |
| 22:03 | cait | hi oleonard |
| 22:03 | hm no tcohen yet | |
| 22:04 | oleonard | Is there another dev meeting? |
| 22:04 | rangi | not sure, i dont think i have anything worth adding |
| 22:04 | cait | hmthere should be one |
| 22:05 | i am actuallystill a bit confused by who proposes what | |
| 22:05 | oleonard | I thought the first one seemed productive, but it's all over my head. |
| 22:05 | cait | yeah mine too |
| 22:05 | rangi: maybe we could have a quick... comments on first meeting one and you repeat what you siad for the logs? :) | |
| 22:06 | rangi | actually naw |
| 22:06 | cait | heh kind of expected that answer |
| 22:06 | someone else wants to add something? | |
| 22:06 | rangi | im kinda sick of dev meetings |
| 22:08 | cait | i think there was supposed to be as ummary written |
| 22:08 | people could comment on that | |
| 22:09 | i think the caching might be a good point | |
| 22:09 | to have the code in a Koha: module? | |
| 22:09 | rangi | like gmcharlt said, probably in some modules |
| 22:11 | ill wait and see the summary, as long as its guidelines, not rules, i can probably work with anything | |
| 22:59 | papa joined #koha | |
| 23:13 | dcook | eythian: Remember how I mentioned that reserves vs old_reserves issue I was having? |
| 23:13 | eythian | yup |
| 23:13 | dcook | Turns out that MySQL's "OPTIMIZE TABLE" command resets your AUTO_INCREMENT |
| 23:13 | eythian | ah |
| 23:14 | so that's something you never want to do | |
| 23:14 | dcook | Yep |
| 23:14 | Looks like it does a max(id)+1 for the reset | |
| 23:15 | eythian | oh, I see |
| 23:15 | that's not so terrible | |
| 23:16 | dcook | Yeah, it only causes occasional problems |
| 23:17 | Like..if you have 50 reserves, and move the 50th to old_reserves | |
| 23:17 | reserves gets reset and then you start producing duplicate IDs | |
| 23:17 | So you can't cancel/fill holds for those duplicates | |
| 23:17 | And it just seems like random chaos | |
| 23:17 | Kudos to the boss for finding that one | |
| 23:17 | Or rather the root cause | |
| 23:18 | Looks like it's a bug in MySQL that was supposed to be fixed in 5.5? | |
| 23:18 | But we're using MariaDB now | |
| 23:18 | http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=18274 | |
| 23:19 | 5.5.33 :S | |
| 23:20 | * dcook | shrugs |
| 23:20 | eythian | hmm, that's certainly worth being aware of |
| 23:21 | dcook | Totes |
| 23:30 | JesseM_away joined #koha | |
| 23:35 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 23:45 | tcohen joined #koha |
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