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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:10 | maximep left #koha | |
| 00:23 | rocio left #koha | |
| 02:12 | rangi | gmcharlt is on the case |
| 02:16 | dcook | ? |
| 02:16 | rangi | koha-community.org |
| 02:16 | wahanui | i think koha-community.org is actually updated and right |
| 02:23 | dcook | I would write the question mark again but I'll just smile and nod :p |
| 02:24 | irma joined #koha | |
| 02:45 | brendan_ joined #koha | |
| 02:57 | aleisha joined #koha | |
| 03:19 | dbs | @wunder p3e2c6 |
| 03:19 | huginn` | dbs: The current temperature in Hwy 69 @ Richard Lake, Sudbury, Ontario is -15.0°C (10:10 PM EST on February 24, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -60.0°C. Windchill: -20.0°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa (Rising). |
| 03:20 | dbs | Humidity -999% eh? Wow. |
| 03:21 | dcook | Sudbury, eh? |
| 03:21 | rangi | @wunder nzwn |
| 03:22 | huginn` | rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0°C (4:00 PM NZDT on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). |
| 03:22 | dcook | I probably knew that...that's neat |
| 03:22 | @wunder sydney, australia | |
| 03:22 | huginn` | dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 28.0°C (2:00 PM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). |
| 03:22 | dcook | Sounds about right.. |
| 03:22 | dbs: -15 wouldn't be so bad about now.. | |
| 03:23 | * dbs | occasionally wonders why he is in Sudbury, when he has been to Sydney and Brisbane... but he does love winter sports |
| 03:24 | dbs | dcook: yes, I'll take cold over heat :) |
| 03:24 | dcook | Some nice bush around Sudbury, iirc. Good times snow shoeing and sledding. |
| 03:25 | Well, that was more so over by North Bay, but close enough | |
| 03:25 | dbs | dcook: I'm not into the motorized side of things, but there's great mountain biking trails around here which make me very happy |
| 03:25 | close enough indeed :) | |
| 03:26 | dcook | Once upon a time, I thought about looking for library work around Sudbury. Glad to know there was good company! |
| 03:29 | dbs | There are those who will argue about how "good" my company is :) |
| 03:31 | dcook | Oh, I'm a total bastard, so no worries there :p |
| 03:32 | rangi | i call bs |
| 03:34 | dcook | Sometimes I forget that I'm remarkably open on Facebook |
| 03:34 | * dcook | tries to hide all the cute cat photos |
| 03:34 | rangi | heh |
| 03:34 | mtompset_away joined #koha | |
| 03:35 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 03:37 | rangi | aleisha++ # coming in to catalyst after school to sign off patches (just signed one off now) |
| 03:37 | aleisha | :) |
| 03:38 | dcook | aleisha++ |
| 03:39 | rangi | @karma aleisha |
| 03:39 | huginn` | rangi: Karma for "aleisha" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2. |
| 03:43 | dcook | I should decrease my karma sometime or really start testing more... |
| 03:57 | brendan_ joined #koha | |
| 03:57 | ibeardslee | excellent |
| 03:58 | not dcook decreasing his kamra, aleisha coming in to Catalyst | |
| 03:58 | dcook | hehe |
| 03:58 | I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions :p | |
| 04:11 | mtompset | But jumping to conclusions is crazy fun, dcook. :P |
| 04:26 | BobB joined #koha | |
| 04:52 | mayank joined #koha | |
| 05:13 | mayank joined #koha | |
| 05:26 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:26 | mtompset | dcook: signed off 11575 for you. :) |
| 05:27 | Greetings, cait. | |
| 05:27 | cait | morning |
| 05:29 | mtompset | I tried duplicating your <TEST> problem, cait, and couldn't. Sorry. |
| 05:29 | cait | ? |
| 05:29 | bug 11575 | |
| 05:29 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11575 normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , OPACBaseURL sometimes set by ENV variable and not system preference |
| 05:29 | * mtompset | tries to remember the bug cait posted. |
| 05:30 | mtompset | 11741 |
| 05:30 | cait | bug 11741 |
| 05:30 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11741 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , < > not displaying correctly in XSLT result list |
| 05:30 | cait | did you use the -x switch for indexing? |
| 05:30 | mtompset | Yes. |
| 05:30 | Though, I suspect it might be a data entry thing. | |
| 05:31 | cait | i don't think so |
| 05:31 | mtompset | I entered the record under MASTER. |
| 05:31 | cait | i did as well |
| 05:31 | tcohen could reproduce | |
| 05:31 | mtompset | and then switching to 3.6, 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14 I couldnt get it to display weird. |
| 05:31 | There must be other system preferences to set. | |
| 05:34 | cait | you checked the results list? |
| 05:34 | mtompset | Hmmm... I'll try again... I only had it going straight to detail, because I only have one seuss record. :) |
| 05:35 | cait | detail is fine, it's only the result list |
| 05:35 | because both use data from diffrent places | |
| 05:35 | but my patch probably won't make it in I think - it's patching it up, but not really fixing it | |
| 05:36 | not fixing the problem at its source | |
| 05:36 | i jsut got up... i might not make sense | |
| 05:37 | mtompset | cait: If the other fix line made it into master, then I think your two lines should. |
| 05:37 | cait | well if it's signed off we can find out ;) |
| 05:37 | mtompset | I'm trying to replicate the problem. |
| 05:37 | Since you said it was results. I just tweaked an entry. | |
| 05:37 | And am reindexing. | |
| 05:41 | okay... master ok... changing to 3.12.x | |
| 05:42 | cait | it's in master too, really |
| 05:42 | i filed the bug against master | |
| 05:42 | mtompset | Nope... works fine. |
| 05:42 | cait | how did you reindex? |
| 05:43 | mtompset | .../rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r -x -v |
| 05:43 | cait | and you are looking at the result list? |
| 05:43 | mtompset | I typed fancy into the search text box and clicked go. |
| 05:43 | and it's the first entry. | |
| 05:44 | cait | hmm interesting |
| 05:44 | wahanui | interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad |
| 05:44 | mtompset | Is this Ubuntu or Debian? |
| 05:44 | cait | tested on both |
| 05:44 | debian at work ubuntu at home | |
| 05:44 | mtompset | same problem on both? |
| 05:44 | cait | yep |
| 05:45 | and tcohen could reproduce as well | |
| 05:45 | mtompset | which zebra version are you using? |
| 05:45 | cait | i should ask him how far he got digging |
| 05:46 | what is packaged i would say | |
| 05:46 | 2.0.44 | |
| 05:47 | * mtompset | shrugs. |
| 05:47 | mtompset | Well, I can't exactly sign something off based on my eyeball of it. |
| 05:48 | cait | it's ok |
| 05:48 | just leave it | |
| 05:48 | mtompset | Just annoying, because it is a nice tiny patch which should be easy to sign off. |
| 05:48 | cait | i am too tired to figure out what hte difference is really |
| 05:48 | i need at least another hour before my brain wakes up | |
| 05:49 | dcook | Thanks, mtompset :) |
| 05:49 | * dcook | was going to test something but then got distracted by local stuff.. |
| 05:55 | cait | thx for testing mtompset :) |
| 05:55 | mtompset | I tried. |
| 05:56 | I've fallen a bit behind having been sick, and losing funding. :( | |
| 05:56 | cait | could you try a las tthing? leaving out the -a of the indexing command, just doing bibliographic? |
| 06:00 | mtompset | Okay... leaving out -a. |
| 06:01 | how do I generate invoices? | |
| 06:01 | cait | you receive something in acq |
| 06:01 | the invoice will be generated then | |
| 06:03 | mtompset | ah... there. |
| 06:04 | reindexing stilll.... *whistles* | |
| 06:05 | Nope... works fine. | |
| 06:05 | cait | ok |
| 06:05 | thx | |
| 06:09 | mtompset | the whole invoicing thing is a weird mess. |
| 06:11 | cait | it's acq. |
| 06:21 | mtompset | Well, okay... Acquisitions is a whole mess. |
| 06:21 | I know nothing of the process, and it was weird to see the things I had to click to get things to do what I needed for testing. | |
| 06:22 | This can't possibly reflect the way people think about the process in reality. | |
| 06:29 | dcook | I don't suppose anyone has noticed this error: "Barcode generation failed for item %s with this error: %s" when trying to print barcode labels? |
| 06:30 | mtompset: Acquisitions is always horrifying in libraries. | |
| 06:30 | * dcook | has worked in libraries for 7-8 years and has found this to always be true. |
| 06:40 | mtompset | is report 21 one of the default sample reports? |
| 06:40 | dcook | \o/ |
| 06:41 | * dcook | dances around a bit |
| 06:41 | dcook | Turns out that Code39 is case sensitive |
| 06:41 | http://search.cpan.org/~larslu[…]e-0.05/Barcode.pm | |
| 06:41 | * dcook | was wondering why a "b" was causing an invalid character exception... |
| 06:42 | * magnuse | waves |
| 06:42 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 06:44 | dcook | yo, magnuse |
| 06:44 | salut laurence | |
| 06:44 | laurence | salut dcook |
| 06:46 | cait | mtompset: there are no default sample reports |
| 06:46 | mtompset | Ah. Thanks, cait. |
| 06:48 | There... now, three more sign offs later, and I'll be back to where I'm happy. :) | |
| 06:50 | magnuse: You snuck in! Greetings. | |
| 06:50 | Greetings, laurence. | |
| 06:51 | laurence | hi mtompset |
| 06:52 | mtompset | Hmmm... Julian Maurice is Biblibre too, right? |
| 06:52 | cait | yep |
| 06:53 | dcook | BibLibre is everywhere ;) |
| 06:53 | mtompset | I was wondering if someone from Biblibre could take a look at my revision patch on bug 6874. It's the only thing needing sign off on this bug that seemed to start from Biblibre. |
| 06:53 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC |
| 06:54 | mtompset | Because that would be a nice feature to get into 3.16 |
| 06:59 | Anyways... I best take off. I need to get rest. | |
| 06:59 | Have a great day, cait dcook magnuse laurence #koha. | |
| 07:23 | dpk joined #koha | |
| 07:31 | cait | running out of time :( |
| 07:31 | bye all | |
| 07:32 | wajasu joined #koha | |
| 07:33 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 07:33 | reiveune | hello |
| 07:33 | wahanui | hola, reiveune |
| 07:58 | mayank joined #koha | |
| 07:59 | Joubu joined #koha | |
| 07:59 | Joubu | salut |
| 07:59 | wahanui | bidet, Joubu |
| 08:02 | * magnuse | waves again |
| 08:02 | magnuse | @wunder boo |
| 08:02 | huginn` | magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (8:50 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Rising). |
| 08:02 | magnuse | @wunder marseille |
| 08:02 | huginn` | magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8°C (9:02 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:03 | matts | hi ! |
| 08:07 | gaetan_B joined #koha | |
| 08:08 | gaetan_B | hello |
| 08:12 | magnuse | bonjour! |
| 08:13 | dev meeting in 6 | |
| 08:13 | hours | |
| 08:13 | 46 | |
| 08:13 | minutes | |
| 08:13 | 12 | |
| 08:13 | seconds | |
| 08:14 | oops | |
| 08:22 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 08:24 | magnuse | kia ora paul_p |
| 08:26 | paul_p | 'morning magnuse |
| 08:26 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 08:49 | Joubu | Marcel around? |
| 08:59 | cait joined #koha | |
| 08:59 | huginn` | GERMS!!!! |
| 08:59 | wahanui | germs is probably http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg |
| 08:59 | cait | good morning #koha and wahanui |
| 09:03 | ashimema | mornin' cait et al' |
| 09:05 | worth putting the dev meeting in the motd? | |
| 09:06 | #meetings | |
| 09:07 | cait | hm thnk it would be a good idea but not sure how to |
| 09:15 | gaetan_B | which is the webservice koha actually uses to fetch covers from amazon ? |
| 09:15 | is it this one : | |
| 09:15 | https://affiliate-program.amaz[…]/detail/main.html ? | |
| 09:18 | clrh | hello |
| 09:18 | wahanui | hello, clrh |
| 09:30 | Joubu1 joined #koha | |
| 09:35 | magnuse | gaetan_B: i think koha just constructs URLs for the images, there is no webservice as such |
| 09:37 | gaetan_B: <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/[% itemsloo.normalized_isbn %].01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt="" class="thumbnail" /> | |
| 09:37 | that sort of thing | |
| 09:54 | gaetan_B | magnuse: hmm so we're not using a webservice or an api ? |
| 09:54 | does that mean we are not sticking to any TOS ? | |
| 09:56 | clrh joined #koha | |
| 10:17 | magnuse | gaetan_B: i think it's sort of a grey area... |
| 10:20 | there is some discussion about it on bugzilla, but i'm not sure exactly where... | |
| 10:25 | barton | morning all |
| 10:26 | petter joined #koha | |
| 10:26 | petter | Hi Koha! |
| 10:27 | magnuse | hiya petter! |
| 10:27 | and hiya barton | |
| 10:40 | petter++ for the RFID RFC | |
| 10:41 | petter | thanks, I'm not sure there are any other libraries with needs like us.. |
| 10:41 | But hopefully if we get some feedback we can improve the solution | |
| 10:50 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 11:02 | cait | hi petter :) |
| 11:02 | when do you arrive on Sunday? | |
| 11:06 | petter: I am trying to organize dinner für the early arriving | |
| 11:06 | * ashimema | now wishes he was arriving sunday too |
| 11:07 | cait | just don't miss monday :) |
| 11:09 | ashimema | I should be turning up before lunch on monday |
| 11:10 | magnuse | just don't miss lunch ;-) |
| 11:10 | cait | yep don't miss lunch |
| 11:10 | lebanese... i think | |
| 11:13 | sophie_m | hello #koha |
| 11:16 | Are some of people coming to the hackfest in Marseille interested by a walk in "calanques" on Sunday (http://www.marvellous-provence[…]uth-of-marseille) | |
| 11:18 | cait | sophie_m: might be arriving too late for that :( 16:00 |
| 11:18 | my coworker tells me every year to go there, but i never managed | |
| 11:21 | sophie_m | cait, paul_p is organising a diner where we can have a brief point of view. it's not the same as walking in it, but it could give you the taste for next time :-) |
| 11:21 | cait | :) do you know when he plans to do it? |
| 11:21 | paul_p | cait probably tuesday |
| 11:22 | cait | ah hi paul_p |
| 11:22 | paul_p | will send a mail soon about that |
| 11:23 | cait | paul_p: :) |
| 11:24 | i think i might send a mail to the early arriving proposinga meeting point near the harbour | |
| 11:24 | might be difficult to reach everyonee otherwise - but probably next week - ideas welcome :) | |
| 11:27 | sophie_m: when where you thinking for the walk? | |
| 11:30 | ashimema | anyone know where the stuff that i a dev install ends up in kohaclone/installer/ goes in a packages install.. |
| 11:30 | I was hoping to grab some of the default sql to post fill frameworks on my system. | |
| 11:31 | sophie_m | cait: if possible in the morning. But I can adapt |
| 11:32 | cait | ashimema: sorry, not sure about the paths there |
| 11:32 | ashimema | hmm |
| 11:32 | cait | sophie_m: my train is already booked, i won't be available before 5pm i think, so I will aim fo rmeeting people for dinner |
| 11:33 | sophie_m | it's a good plan too :-) |
| 11:33 | cait | :) |
| 11:33 | magnuse | ashimema: try /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/ |
| 11:34 | (or e.g. "locate kohastructure.sql") | |
| 11:34 | ashimema | aha, magnuse your awsome. |
| 11:34 | of course.. why didn't I tihnk of 'locate' | |
| 11:34 | magnuse | :-) |
| 11:34 | ashimema | brain is not good today. |
| 11:34 | * magnuse | rewards himself with lunch |
| 11:36 | chinu joined #koha | |
| 11:43 | chinu left #koha | |
| 11:44 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 11:53 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:21 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 12:21 | * barton | thinks that cait should alias 'locate' to 'locait'. |
| 12:21 | cait | lol |
| 12:23 | ashimema | :) |
| 12:36 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 12:36 | tcohen | morning #koha |
| 12:36 | hi cait | |
| 12:44 | meliss joined #koha | |
| 12:52 | collum joined #koha | |
| 12:53 | tcohen | anyone with experience maintaining a CPAN module? |
| 12:53 | fredericd? | |
| 12:53 | wahanui | fredericd is probably translation manager for 3.8 |
| 13:04 | cait | hi tcohen :) |
| 13:06 | tcohen | hi cait |
| 13:07 | i can reproduce your problem (< >) | |
| 13:07 | and your patch does the job | |
| 13:07 | a proper solution would break people's Koha use | |
| 13:07 | do u want me to sign it? | |
| 13:08 | cait | tcohen: i would be happy if you did |
| 13:08 | nlegrand joined #koha | |
| 13:09 | nlegrand | hey |
| 13:09 | cait | and if you could add some notes why it would break other people't things |
| 13:09 | i think you know more about the problem right now than i do | |
| 13:09 | tcohen | we are doing ad-hoc fixes anyway |
| 13:09 | your patch doesn't hurt | |
| 13:10 | cait | yeah, we already do some ampersand magic |
| 13:22 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 13:23 | oleonard | Hi #koha |
| 13:26 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 13:27 | magnuse | kia ora oleonard NateC |
| 13:36 | cait | tcohen: grs1! the missing piece! |
| 13:36 | i really was too tired this morning it seems :) | |
| 13:41 | fridolin joined #koha | |
| 13:41 | fridolin | hie all |
| 13:42 | tcohen | hi fridolin |
| 13:42 | fridolin | i'm releasing today 3.14.04 |
| 13:43 | tcohen | fridolin++ |
| 13:43 | cait | :) |
| 13:45 | ashimema | fridolin++ |
| 13:45 | damn.. that means my list of tasks just grew ;) | |
| 13:46 | tcohen | heh |
| 13:46 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 13:52 | magnuse | fridolin++ |
| 13:52 | dev meeting in 1 hour 7 minutes! | |
| 13:53 | tcohen | bug 11096 |
| 13:53 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra |
| 13:53 | * magnuse | will miss the first one, maybe the second one too |
| 14:03 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 14:03 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 14:03 | francharb | good morning #koha |
| 14:04 | magnuse | hiya francharb and talljoy |
| 14:04 | talljoy | hiya magnuse! |
| 14:04 | francharb | o/ magnuse |
| 14:04 | druthb | o/ |
| 14:04 | talljoy | hi druthb! |
| 14:05 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 14:05 | cait | magnuse: ooh :( |
| 14:15 | rhcl | @wunder 64507 |
| 14:15 | huginn` | rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -6.3°C (8:15 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.38 in 1029 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:15 | rhcl | -63°C It's really cold out there. And it's snowing. |
| 14:16 | @wunder boo | |
| 14:16 | huginn` | rhcl: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0°C (2:50 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:16 | rhcl | Ah! Tropics in Norway. |
| 14:16 | @wunder konstanz | |
| 14:16 | huginn` | rhcl: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 8.0°C (3:00 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015 hPa (Falling). |
| 14:16 | oleonard | @wunder 45701 |
| 14:16 | huginn` | oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is -4.4°C (8:30 AM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -4.0°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Falling). |
| 14:17 | rhcl | @wunder houston, tx |
| 14:17 | huginn` | rhcl: The current temperature in SE-Svc-Cntr, Houston, Texas is 18.1°C (8:17 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Steady). Dense fog advisory in effect until 10 am CST this morning... |
| 14:18 | rhcl | k-c.org is UP |
| 14:19 | tcohen | yay! https://metacpan.org/pod/Memoize::Memcached |
| 14:19 | magnuse | yeah, it sure is warm up here |
| 14:20 | rhcl | :) |
| 14:20 | magnuse | we had snow on saturday and sunday, but now it's all gone |
| 14:20 | weekend snow - i can live with that :-) | |
| 14:21 | ashimema | tcohen++ |
| 14:22 | didn't realise you maintained memoize? | |
| 14:27 | tcohen | i've just started heh |
| 14:27 | the owner gave me the rights to do it | |
| 14:27 | so i've just patched an old deprecation bug it had | |
| 14:27 | jenkins_koha | Starting build #178 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 14:27 | Joubu joined #koha | |
| 14:27 | Joubu joined #koha | |
| 14:27 | Joubu | y |
| 14:28 | cait | hi Joubu :) |
| 14:28 | brendan_ joined #koha | |
| 14:28 | tcohen | hi Joubu |
| 14:29 | mayank1 joined #koha | |
| 14:29 | Joubu | I tested my 'y' key, it works great |
| 14:29 | tcohen | i can confirm that Joubu |
| 14:29 | oleonard | :) |
| 14:30 | Joubu | thanks tcohen! |
| 14:30 | ;) | |
| 14:30 | ashimema | nice work! tcohen++ again |
| 14:32 | oleonard | Shouldn't I be able to view the course reserves page even if I don't have permission to edit? |
| 14:34 | wajasu | i think there is a syspref to turn it on. |
| 14:36 | cait | y key passed QA :) |
| 14:36 | oleonard: if there is a sep permission, I'd think so | |
| 14:37 | tcohen | Joubu: hopefully gmcharlt will push it and we'll cherry-pick it for the stable keyboards |
| 14:37 | wajasu | UseCourseReserves in circ preferences |
| 14:37 | ColinC joined #koha | |
| 14:37 | oleonard | wajasu: Right. If UseCourseReserves is enabled I would think one would be able to access course reserves even without permission to edit/delete/manage |
| 14:38 | magnuse | tcohen++ |
| 14:38 | gmcharlt | @quote random |
| 14:38 | huginn` | gmcharlt: Quote #43: "< Ropuch> Uh - beware of tea: it can burn your throat" (added by chris at 08:35 AM, October 30, 2009) |
| 14:43 | marcelr joined #koha | |
| 14:44 | marcelr | hi #koha |
| 14:44 | tcohen | gmcharlt: is cpan.org slow to update from what is uploaded to pause? |
| 14:44 | Joubu | oleonard: did you understand my comment on 11718? I'm not sure it is understandable... |
| 14:45 | gmcharlt | tcohen: I've seen it take anywhere between 1 and 4 hours |
| 14:45 | meeting in 15 minutes | |
| 14:45 | tcohen | oh, thanks gmcharlt. I should be patient then |
| 14:45 | :-D | |
| 14:45 | oleonard | Yes Joubu |
| 14:46 | Joubu | oleonard: cool :) |
| 14:46 | wajasu | oleonard: so you don't have read access as a non superlibrarian? i have access in the OPAC to view as a Patron(PT) without the special add/edit/delete perms |
| 14:46 | cait | wajasu: I think oleonad meant the staff side |
| 14:46 | oleonard | wajasu: I'm only talking about the staff client |
| 14:47 | peggy joined #koha | |
| 14:51 | Joubu | marcelr++ for the qa feedback on bug 9016! |
| 14:51 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices |
| 14:51 | oleonard | Joubu: Note that I didn't remove sorting from any columns in my patch for Bug 11718, I only added sorting on creation date |
| 14:51 | marcelr | hi Joubu: will return to that later on.. :) |
| 14:51 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11718 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Use new DataTables include in reports templates |
| 14:52 | wajasu | did anyone bake cookies for the meeting? |
| 14:53 | * oleonard | has Girl Scout cookies |
| 14:53 | cait | oleonard: with lemon? |
| 14:53 | druthb has some with lemon.... | |
| 14:53 | oleonard | I don't think I have any of those |
| 14:53 | cait | what do you have? |
| 14:54 | gmcharlt | Joubu: oleonard: marcelr: please note the follow-up on bug 10865 |
| 14:54 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed |
| 14:55 | gmcharlt | and, apparently, 18065 ;) |
| 14:55 | marcelr | hi gmcharlt: will have a look soon |
| 14:55 | jenkins_koha | Project Koha_3.12.x build #178: SUCCESS in 33 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.12.x/178/ |
| 14:55 | * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Update release notes for 3.12.11 release | |
| 14:55 | * Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Translation updates for 3.12.11 release | |
| 14:55 | * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Increment version for 3.12.11 release | |
| 14:55 | marcelr | bug 18065 ? too high.. |
| 14:55 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=18065 was not found. |
| 14:56 | gmcharlt | marcelr: yeah, I just noticed a typo in my follow-up patch to 10865, hence the joke about 18065 |
| 14:56 | oleonard | cait: Mint, peanut butter, and coconut cookies |
| 14:56 | marcelr | gmcharlt: bug 10363 likes your comments too |
| 14:56 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Failed QA , There is no package for authorised values. |
| 14:56 | cait | mmmh coconut |
| 14:57 | i think we are ready for the meeting | |
| 14:57 | marcelr | koffie |
| 14:57 | ashimema | you've made me hungry now cait. |
| 14:57 | cait | :P |
| 14:57 | marcelr | =coffee |
| 14:57 | * cait | blames oleonard |
| 14:57 | marcelr | good start |
| 14:58 | gmcharlt | ok, may as well begin |
| 14:59 | #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC | |
| 14:59 | huginn` | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:59:17 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 14:59 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 14:59 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 14:59 | huginn` | The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc' |
| 14:59 | gmcharlt | #info Agenda http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]February_25,_2014 |
| 14:59 | #topic Introductions | |
| 14:59 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 14:59 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 14:59 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries |
| 14:59 | marcelr | #info Marcel de Rooy, Netherlands |
| 14:59 | gmcharlt | #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA |
| 15:00 | paul_p | #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre |
| 15:00 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe |
| 15:00 | Joubu | #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France |
| 15:00 | ColinC | #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe |
| 15:00 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ |
| 15:00 | rhcl | #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library -ro |
| 15:00 | fredericd | #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil |
| 15:01 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 15:01 | jajm | #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, France |
| 15:02 | matts | #info Matthias Meusburger, Biblibre, France |
| 15:02 | slef | #info MJ Ray, software.coop, England |
| 15:03 | gmcharlt | OK, folks can continue to chime in as they arrive |
| 15:03 | first, some annouceents | |
| 15:03 | #topic Announcements | |
| 15:03 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 15:04 | gmcharlt | #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille |
| 15:04 | cait | gmcharlt++ :) |
| 15:04 | maximep joined #koha | |
| 15:04 | gmcharlt | that means that I'm committing to push (or if need be in certain cases, reject) everything targetted for master by then |
| 15:04 | ashimema | gmcharlt++ |
| 15:04 | gmcharlt | to give a clear slate |
| 15:05 | paul_p | gmcharlt++ |
| 15:05 | slef | #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March |
| 15:05 | gmcharlt | after discussing this with cait, I'd like to request that for the next week, that QA team members focus on (1) needs-signoff and (2) kitten-rescue |
| 15:05 | paul_p | gmcharlt what to you mean by "targetted for master" ? |
| 15:05 | tcohen | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba |
| 15:05 | gmcharlt | paul_p: there are one or two in passed-QA that are targetted for maintenance branches |
| 15:06 | marcelr | no further new qa's you mean? |
| 15:06 | gmcharlt | a 3.8.x one, in fact, although I think khall tried applying it but ran into trouble with it |
| 15:06 | not sure of the details | |
| 15:06 | marcelr: yes - let's say end of day tomorrow as a cutoff for new passed QA if you're in the middle of something? | |
| 15:06 | cait | gmcharlt: I think continuing on things you are in the midst of should be ok, but not starting on new patches? |
| 15:06 | huginn` | New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]10f0be56b8805faeb> |
| 15:07 | gmcharlt | are there any other announcements folks wish to make at this time? |
| 15:07 | cait | i thik we can add another #agreed for the cutoff :) |
| 15:07 | or info | |
| 15:07 | gmcharlt | cait: go for it |
| 15:08 | cait | #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue |
| 15:08 | paul_p | gmcharlt = do you think you'll have time to deal with the 84 waiting patches before the hackfest ? |
| 15:08 | gmcharlt | paul_p: it's going to be my sole focus for Koha work |
| 15:08 | jcamins | #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services |
| 15:08 | paul_p | gmcharlt = would it be wise to start by new feature/enh ? so hackfest participant can concentrate on testing master ? |
| 15:08 | gmcharlt | (unless security issues intervene) |
| 15:09 | paul_p: I'm going to be doing the small fry first, then go to enh | |
| 15:09 | enh/new | |
| 15:10 | i.e., oleonard's DataTables stuff won't take much time in any event | |
| 15:10 | btw | |
| 15:10 | jenkins_koha | Starting build #362 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 15:10 | gmcharlt | oleonard++ # cleanup wizard |
| 15:10 | cait | oleonard++ |
| 15:10 | gmcharlt | the next thing I'm going to do is to toss out some general questions |
| 15:10 | cait | #thx for adding consistency to everything |
| 15:10 | gmcharlt | they do *not* require an immediate response |
| 15:11 | #topic RM questions | |
| 15:11 | Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 15:11 | gmcharlt | #info What is the state of UNIMARC/DOM Zebra indexing? Are UNIMARC users ready to adopt it? |
| 15:11 | #info How many folks are using QueryParser in production? | |
| 15:12 | #info Is deprecating GRS-1 a viable option for 3.16? | |
| 15:12 | paul_p | gmcharlt = I'll add the unimarc topic for the hackfest. We will have many french unimarc librarians at hand to test ;-) |
| 15:12 | gmcharlt | paul_p++ |
| 15:12 | marcelr | anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ? |
| 15:12 | cait | paul_p: my impression was there are still some bugs to shake out, but might not be hard to fix |
| 15:12 | gmcharlt | #agreed paul_p will add discussion/testing of UNIMARC Zebra-DOM to Marseille hackfest |
| 15:12 | ashimema | gmcharlt, I'd love to see GRS-1 go the way of the dodo. |
| 15:13 | jenkins_koha | Starting build #1644 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS) |
| 15:13 | gmcharlt | #info anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ? |
| 15:13 | ashimema | marcelr, we have a few customers using SRU with DOM.. i believe |
| 15:13 | gmcharlt | marcelr: are you seeing any issues with it? |
| 15:13 | tcohen | SRU+DOM+UNIMARC? |
| 15:13 | marcelr | i tried some time ago and it did not work at that time (out of the box or so) |
| 15:13 | ashimema | not unimark from us. |
| 15:14 | I believe I had to modify at least one config file to get it outputting a sensible format.. it was outputting plain indexes to start with. | |
| 15:14 | gmcharlt | #info Is anybody actively testing or developing on Debian Jessie at the moment? |
| 15:14 | cait | marcelr: I think there might have been a fix for that, worth trying again maybe |
| 15:14 | ashimema | i can't remember the details.. it was a while ago and hasn't come up again since |
| 15:14 | Franziska joined #koha | |
| 15:14 | paul_p | gmcharlt = added to workshop list : "DOM indexing in UNIMARC We must test DOM indexing in UNIMARC to see if GRS-1 can be deprecated. Some patches pushed" |
| 15:14 | gmcharlt | paul_p++ |
| 15:14 | wajasu | should ICU be the default oor such, if or when GRS1 goes away? or is there search value in CHR? |
| 15:15 | cait | I'd be for ICU by default |
| 15:15 | a lot of libraries stumble on that | |
| 15:15 | paul_p | ICU by default++ |
| 15:15 | ashimema | icu for default... ++ |
| 15:15 | ColinC | One issue with Jessie may be that Queryparser's tests fail on newer perls |
| 15:15 | tcohen | +1 |
| 15:15 | gmcharlt | is there a singular ICU config that folks like? |
| 15:15 | cait | OpacSuppression + Queryparser don't work, that's kind of a blocker for the library that we tested it with |
| 15:15 | gmcharlt | or shoudl we consider going a bit further to generate language-of-record specific configs that folks can use sysprefs to select? |
| 15:16 | paul_p | Franziska = hello. Just seen your email now. happy to see that you could fix the problem to join us |
| 15:16 | gmcharlt | ColinC: indeed - it's heavily depending on hash sort order, for some reason |
| 15:16 | Franziska joined #koha | |
| 15:17 | cait | paul_p: maybe testing QueryParser could also be a topic for the hackfest? |
| 15:17 | gmcharlt | also - folks, please feel free to chime in on proposing these sorts of architectural/deprecation/compatbility questions now |
| 15:18 | ashimema | testing QueryParser has been on my todo list for a while now, I'de be happy chipping in testing at hackfest should it become a topic |
| 15:18 | Franziska | Hello from Koha Gruppo Italiano - Rome |
| 15:18 | cait | the librarian testing force is strong at the hackfest usually |
| 15:18 | they have done some great testing int he past, also with plack | |
| 15:18 | tcohen | gmcharlt: do u think 11096 could be ready for 3.16? |
| 15:18 | marcelr | bug 11096 |
| 15:18 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra |
| 15:19 | gmcharlt | #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? |
| 15:19 | tcohen: in a word, yes | |
| 15:19 | cait | gmcharlt: i think most use the out of the box icu now, but there is a wiki page on how to tweak it for arabic |
| 15:20 | gmcharlt: we had added some additional rules for umlaut indexing in the past, not sure how flexible configuration can be made here | |
| 15:20 | jcamins | I use the out-of-the-box configuration. |
| 15:20 | (for ICU, FWIW) | |
| 15:20 | gmcharlt | cait: OK, I"m going to tweet a request for folks to add their custom ICU configs to the wiki page |
| 15:20 | ashimema | we use out of the box icu configs in lots of places. |
| 15:21 | ColinC | ICU out of the box handles arabic cyrillic and chinese fairly well |
| 15:21 | cait | gmcharlt: can we add icu by default as a question? or did i miss it? |
| 15:21 | ashimema | gmcharlt.. I spent a fair bit of time testing the Plack during install bug on bugzilla.. It had a few issues. |
| 15:21 | clrh | #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre, France (late sorry) |
| 15:22 | paul_p | gmcharlt = we have a working plack configuration at SAN-OP |
| 15:22 | gmcharlt | ashimema: did you write up the issues? |
| 15:22 | jcamins | I use ICU mostly for Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew. |
| 15:22 | gmcharlt | paul_p: did you write up the config anywhere? |
| 15:22 | cait | we use it with hebrew, out of the box icu, no complaints so far |
| 15:23 | paul_p | for both OPAC & staff. We faced one problem with it though = we restarted plack every night, and sometimes, it stopped badly, and did not restart |
| 15:23 | gmcharlt | all: did you write up the FOO anywhere? ;) |
| 15:23 | ashimema | bug 9316 |
| 15:23 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack |
| 15:23 | paul_p | gmcharlt = not sure, will check & wiki-fy it |
| 15:23 | gmcharlt | ashimema: thanks |
| 15:24 | paul_p | both plack config & nightly crontab script |
| 15:24 | ashimema | I need to look into it again.. not checked for a while.. i'll try to take a look between this meet and the next ;) |
| 15:24 | cait | #info Can we make ICU indexing default for new installations? |
| 15:24 | ashimema | nothing major.. just minor gripes really. |
| 15:24 | cait | so it doesn't get lost :) |
| 15:24 | ashimema | from memory |
| 15:25 | gmcharlt | OK, I'm going to try to keep the meeting to an hour, so I'm going to move on |
| 15:25 | #topic ElasticSearch | |
| 15:25 | Topic for #koha is now ElasticSearch (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 15:25 | gmcharlt | it looks like we have two different ElasticSearch projects going on |
| 15:25 | and ... for obvious reasons it would be great if the efforts were coordinated | |
| 15:25 | paul_p | Franziska = look, it's for you now !!! |
| 15:26 | gmcharlt | I imagine the NZers will be participating in the second version of this meeting today, of coruse |
| 15:26 | paul_p | gmcharlt = what do you mean by "2 projects going on" ? |
| 15:26 | Franziska | Great! Stefano will present the project in Marseille. Please join us on March 11th |
| 15:27 | ashimema | Agreed, we need some collaboration going on this. |
| 15:27 | paul_p | because what italians announced is not -yet- a project with code. It's a project to see how things could/should be done, and -try to- fund it |
| 15:27 | Franziska | Additional information will be available on http://www.kohagruppoitaliano.moonfruit.com/ shortly |
| 15:27 | paul_p | so it's not too late to coordinate. It's the perfect timing I think. |
| 15:27 | ashimema | Franziska, are you in touch with Chris et al? |
| 15:28 | paul_p | gmcharlt = the "other" ES project is made by chris & sponsored by bywater, isn't it ? |
| 15:28 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 15:28 | Franziska | No not yet, but we really hope to work with him on this project |
| 15:28 | gmcharlt | and since it has code developing, it's going to set the tone |
| 15:28 | so Franziska, I *strongly* encourage you to get in touch with Chris ASAP | |
| 15:29 | paul_p | gmcharlt = so I hope things will be coordinated, because the "italian" project have American University in Rome, that is a ByWater customer ! |
| 15:29 | Franziska | Our goal is to help the community to make it happen |
| 15:29 | cait | Franziska: being in NZ they won't make it to the hackfest in Marseille |
| 15:30 | gmcharlt | they also tend to use IRC a lot; I recommend that you hang out in #koha |
| 15:30 | Franziska | we are not assisted by Bywater...Stefano is in charge of our catalog |
| 15:30 | cait | I think it would be great to see this worked out - funding and development :) |
| 15:30 | Franziska | we are independent. Bywater is in charge of the American Academy's catalog. |
| 15:30 | gmcharlt | right |
| 15:31 | paul_p | Franziska oups, sorry, failed once again between AAR and AUR ... |
| 15:31 | I'll be successful one day... (maybe not this year :D :D ) | |
| 15:31 | gmcharlt | paul_p: then we'll throw more acronyms at you |
| 15:31 | just to keep you on your toes ;) | |
| 15:31 | Franziska | For us it is a important to work out the way between funding and development |
| 15:32 | paul_p | ABR ? ACR ? ADR ? AER ? |
| 15:32 | cait | rangi left a note on the agenda - saying they will try to have something to play with for the hackfest |
| 15:32 | gmcharlt | that should help |
| 15:32 | cait | maybe this can help see where things are going and help getting started on coordination |
| 15:32 | Franziska | what we essentially do is to promote Koha in Italy |
| 15:33 | paul_p | what annoys me is that it seems that the work we made on solr won't be re-used at all. And I think/feel it's a shame. |
| 15:33 | (energy lost) | |
| 15:33 | (not because we wrote it) | |
| 15:33 | Franziska | Sorry, my mistake - the promotion goes over the world |
| 15:33 | marcelr | paul_p couldn't that be rescued somehow? |
| 15:33 | clrh | marcelr: things are pushed in master |
| 15:34 | marcelr: there is a base to wrote more things on many search engin as you want... | |
| 15:34 | ashimema | Franziska... do you guys have plans for A) Where the money should be coming from and B) What developers your hoping to employ to do the work. I'm just thinking it should probably go to one of the bigger players already working in searhc for koha, as aposed to somone new implimenting in yet another way.. |
| 15:34 | basically what paul_p just said ;) | |
| 15:35 | Franziska | The community has to choose amoung Solr and ElasticSearch |
| 15:35 | paul_p | marcelr = I feel it could, I sent an email to rangi about that, and got no feedback. |
| 15:35 | marcelr | unfortunate |
| 15:36 | paul_p | Franziska = the best would be to have an search layer independant from any search engine. So we can plug ES, Solr, Zebra, whatever |
| 15:36 | gmcharlt | I think it's fair to say that there's been an long-running technical disagreement about that. There's no need to rehash it now, but I expect that once the ES stuff for testing at Hackfest is available, it may clarify things |
| 15:36 | cait | also people from ByWater will be there |
| 15:37 | who have been working with Catalyst IT to make it happen | |
| 15:37 | paul_p | gmcharlt which one ? not clear to me (except the fact that we started to REPLACE zebra by solr, and the community wanted to have a CHOICE) |
| 15:37 | Franziska | Koha Gruppo Italiano has no conflict with choice |
| 15:38 | paul_p | gmcharlt and maybe another one with Moose, but not worth forgetting everything we made I think |
| 15:38 | thd | paul_p: Could some of BibLibre work on the user interface for user configuration of indexing not be taken from the Solr/Lucene work and added to Elastic Search. |
| 15:38 | ? | |
| 15:39 | paul_p | thd = I really don't know. Everything is in master, we're open to questions. |
| 15:39 | clrh | thd: erf do not understand the question >< |
| 15:39 | gmcharlt | I actually think that's going to be a big question for 3.16 or possibily 3.18 -- how much of the Koha::SearchEngine stuff will remain |
| 15:39 | Joubu | thd: the Solr config page (the one in master) can be used for ES too. |
| 15:40 | gmcharlt | because, ATM, it's code that isn't actively used |
| 15:40 | paul_p | right. |
| 15:40 | I don' tthink it's a reachable goal for 3.16 | |
| 15:40 | for 3.18, it should be a goal. | |
| 15:41 | cait | maybe we could do experimental |
| 15:41 | gmcharlt | I'm actually hoping that the question gets settled by 3.16 - at least in terms of our having a pretty good idea about what parts will be staying in for the long run |
| 15:41 | cait | if it doesn't break anything, nto sure how far they are |
| 15:41 | thd | The issue would be for a librarian interface to control how the indexing functions. |
| 15:41 | cait | oh, i misunderstood... i thought elastic search going in |
| 15:41 | not reading fast enough | |
| 15:41 | gmcharlt | considering that two piece of completely dead code contributed to the security release recently -- I'm feeling a bit less lenient about keeping in code that isn't used |
| 15:42 | cait: we'll see about when ES goes in - it's a bit too early to know for sure | |
| 15:42 | *however* - I think we've exhausted this topic for now until the later meeting | |
| 15:42 | so going to move on | |
| 15:42 | slef | I've some of the same concerns about ES as Solr. It's another Java app so another complication for Koha servers. |
| 15:43 | gmcharlt | yeah, I think there will be a place for fast, self-contained search engines for a while yet |
| 15:43 | #topic DBIx::Class | |
| 15:43 | Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 15:44 | gmcharlt | so I think one of the issues here is this |
| 15:44 | how much abstraction to use | |
| 15:44 | wajasu | can we get the entire DB API coded in a test for DBIx and possibly reconcile historical names (borrower vs member, issue vs ...) Then code won't bubble that up into the UI with varying concepts |
| 15:44 | gmcharlt | the current DBIC suppport already provides basic data access classes |
| 15:45 | my current thinking is that for simple things, the DBIC schema classes can safely be used directly | |
| 15:45 | and that we should interpose container classes only when needed | |
| 15:45 | for example - the concept of a bib is one that I think lends itself to such an intermediate class | |
| 15:46 | particularly since we're contemplating doing things like merging biblio and biblioitems | |
| 15:46 | ColinC | They are intended to give you usuable objects |
| 15:46 | paul_p | gmcharlt my counter comment is "how will anyone know what it 'simple' and what is not" ? for newbies, won't it be less readable ? |
| 15:46 | gmcharlt | but things like authorised values? I see less of a reason write wrapper classes |
| 15:46 | (though more scope to add methods to the base DBIC schema class if called for) | |
| 15:47 | paul_p | having the same container schema everywhere may be a little bit boring to write, but changes nothing to readability or efficiency, and will be clearer |
| 15:47 | marcelr | lots of relative empty classes |
| 15:47 | paul_p | and what if one day something simple become no more simple ? |
| 15:47 | marcelr | create a class |
| 15:47 | cait | more code to maintain |
| 15:47 | gmcharlt | yes, piling on more code to maintain is not my preference |
| 15:48 | and too many layers of delegation can impose a performance penalty | |
| 15:48 | paul_p | gmcharlt the perf penalty is small (and tiny with plack) |
| 15:48 | Joubu | In my opinion, if the code is easy to understand, it is not a problem to have more code |
| 15:48 | ColinC | would be a good idea to do some concentrated work on an area of the application and learn a bit |
| 15:49 | Joubu | Is there already an example on how to implement an OO class using DBIC into Koha? |
| 15:49 | gmcharlt | paul_p: I do agree, however, that some syntactical sugar would be nice to get a schema class with less typing would be nice |
| 15:49 | schema object, rather | |
| 15:49 | Joubu: well, the basic DBIC objects aren't hard to understand | |
| 15:50 | Franziska | I am leaving the meeting,Thank you for your attention. |
| 15:50 | gmcharlt | so I don't per se see that more layers improve readability /necessarily/ |
| 15:50 | I could be swayed by a specific counter-example | |
| 15:51 | ColinC: yeah, that seems sensible | |
| 15:51 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I already submit propositions and all have been rejected, I just would like someone to show me how to do |
| 15:51 | Moreover, should we (QA team) authorize to use DBIC directly in pl scripts, or only in packages in the Koha namespace? | |
| 15:51 | wajasu | but should we provide getRenewal vs. ??? wrap only were needed. if we write good tests for the data access "API", we can NYTProf and such and make it solid the layer testable. |
| 15:51 | cait | I think maybe some notes, good practice examples ont he wiki would help to clear confusion |
| 15:52 | marcelr | Joubu i think we wanted to use them from the Koha namespace? |
| 15:52 | cait | the RFC on the wiki is not quite what we have right now I think |
| 15:52 | marcelr | only |
| 15:52 | ColinC | The logic would be to use the objects directly in .pl scripts DBIC does the hiding of DBI for you |
| 15:52 | Joubu | marcelr: it is not everybody's opinion |
| 15:52 | gmcharlt | Joubu: IMO, direct use of DBIC in scripts is fine |
| 15:52 | marcelr | ColinC: now we move them to modules |
| 15:53 | vfernandes joined #koha | |
| 15:53 | vfernandes | hi :) |
| 15:53 | marcelr | but it is just theory; in many cases you will need the module |
| 15:53 | gmcharlt | one second, digging up an example of something |
| 15:53 | paul_p | examlpe++ |
| 15:53 | ColinC | adding an extra layer adds a place to add complucations and bugs |
| 15:54 | vfernandes | one question: i have a koha installation with 5 libraries... it's possible to block the user access to only some of that libraries? |
| 15:54 | marcelr | this extra layer is now in C4? |
| 15:54 | Joubu | gmcharlt: yes, I know :) But I disagree :) |
| 15:54 | cait | vfernandes: can you waita bit longer? we are currently havign a meeting and it's hard to concentrate on 2 things atonce :) |
| 15:54 | vfernandes | sorry :) |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | ok, didn't find what I was looking for |
| 15:56 | however, I agree with the general point that we need specific examples of recommended usage | |
| 15:56 | marcelr | the move from C4 to Koha is now interfering with the DBICifying |
| 15:56 | gmcharlt | so I'll add that as a topic the March 5 meeting and work some up |
| 15:56 | ColinC | how? |
| 15:56 | cait | marcelr: there is not so much in Koha yet, maybe the newer ones could just use it? |
| 15:57 | marcelr: when we need one that is | |
| 15:57 | gmcharlt | #action gmcharlt will work on some DBIC examples; requests others to experiment as well |
| 15:57 | marcelr | should we refrain from adding DBIC into C4 ? |
| 15:57 | wajasu | for what was generated in master, did someone get that "work around" DBIC_????? flag out and was the schema adjusted to make DBIC happy (NULL foreign keys)? |
| 15:58 | ashimema | i feel the line between C4 and Koha has become rather hazy at best.. I often find myself a bit confused as to where something should go now. |
| 15:58 | gmcharlt | wajasu: yes |
| 15:58 | wajasu | great |
| 15:58 | marcelr | true and it will probably stay for some time :) |
| 15:58 | cait | i feel new modules into Koha ideally, but harder to tell when just adding new bits and pieces |
| 15:59 | ColinC | I think the difference is Koha modules have less history to support the are meant to be new thought |
| 16:00 | Joubu | gmcharlt: Note: I encountered an issue on writing UT for bug 8007 (cf patch UT). The transaction does not work, we use 2 handlers on the same DB |
| 16:00 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8007 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Discharge management |
| 16:00 | marcelr | i also submitted a report this afternoon on some warnings on the connect bug 11835 |
| 16:00 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11835 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Warnings from DBIx about Moo::_Utils and Class::XSAccessor in Koha::Schema |
| 16:03 | cait | we are getting close to the hour now - maybe we need to talk about having another meeting/actions? |
| 16:04 | lcls joined #koha | |
| 16:04 | gmcharlt | indeed |
| 16:04 | but very breifly, first | |
| 16:04 | wajasu | i did successfully code tests with http://search.cpan.org/~chisel[…]x/Class/Schema.pm |
| 16:04 | gmcharlt | #topic Large enhancements |
| 16:04 | Topic for #koha is now Large enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 16:04 | gmcharlt | here's what I know of |
| 16:04 | #info Rancor (cataloging editor) | |
| 16:04 | #info ElasticSearch | |
| 16:04 | what else? | |
| 16:04 | cait | hm Accounts rewrite? |
| 16:04 | wajasu | account rewrite |
| 16:05 | paul_p | gmcharlt = how do you define "large" ? |
| 16:05 | cait | #info Accounts rewrite |
| 16:05 | Joubu | I have a lot of "large" enh in the queue |
| 16:05 | gmcharlt | paul_p: in this case, things that would require special effort to for signoff and QA by their nature |
| 16:06 | marcelr | when is the cutoff date? |
| 16:06 | cait | maybe we can add the multi transports as well |
| 16:06 | Joubu | bug 7180 |
| 16:06 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7180 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Order from staged file improvements |
| 16:06 | Joubu | bug 9016 |
| 16:06 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices |
| 16:06 | bag | morning |
| 16:06 | wahanui | hmmm... morning is a state of cat |
| 16:06 | Joubu | bug 10212 |
| 16:06 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10212 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Columns configuration for tables |
| 16:06 | Joubu | the history search |
| 16:07 | bug 10858 | |
| 16:07 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10858 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Browse selected biblios |
| 16:07 | cait | Joubu: big enhancements, but bit smaller than the other 3 i think, thankfully |
| 16:07 | marcelr | Joubu: bug 10858 will have my attention again very soon |
| 16:07 | rocio joined #koha | |
| 16:07 | cait | smaller is good in that case |
| 16:07 | marcelr | hopefully before end of tomorrow :) |
| 16:07 | Joubu | cait: yes but they require special effort for so and qa |
| 16:08 | jenkins_koha | Project master_maria build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]master_maria/362/ |
| 16:08 | Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item | |
| 16:08 | thd | What is involved in a 'special effort' for signoff? What distinguishes a 'special effort'? |
| 16:08 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item |
| 16:08 | Joubu | bug 9011 is quite large too |
| 16:08 | gmcharlt | marcelr: I'm not setting a firm cutoff date just yet, but will do so by the March 5 meeting |
| 16:08 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9011 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Add the ability to store the last patron to return an item |
| 16:08 | Joubu | bug 9811 |
| 16:08 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9811 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Patrons search improvements |
| 16:08 | marcelr | gmcharlt: ok |
| 16:08 | cait | thd: everything gets special effort from the QA team ;) |
| 16:08 | marcelr | :) |
| 16:08 | wajasu | what about considering enduser migration from squeeze to wheezy. or mysql vs postgres vs mariadb |
| 16:08 | gmcharlt | thd: it's a bit of a gut feeling |
| 16:08 | cait | thd: but some things are harder, like touching lots of functionality, sensitive spots like holds, etc |
| 16:09 | marcelr | wajasu: isn't that linked to the dbic efforts.. |
| 16:09 | gmcharlt | but basically, something that isn't just an incremental additional to existing functionality |
| 16:09 | cait | gmcharlt: i think another thing we need to fix eventually is the apache configuration for the new apache version |
| 16:09 | gmcharlt | most of Joubu's aren't quite so "large" |
| 16:09 | (they're important, though, I'm not trying to minimize that) | |
| 16:10 | wajasu: I don't know of any particular blockers for folks to upgrade to Wheezy | |
| 16:10 | and they should do so soon, as Squeeze will be going away | |
| 16:10 | MariaDB is already a valid option, IMO | |
| 16:10 | Franziska joined #koha | |
| 16:10 | clrh | gmcharlt: not sure to understand what you are waiting for with this topic |
| 16:10 | wajasu | I am running mariadb on archlinux now so can test that. |
| 16:10 | ashimema | wajasu, we've updated lots of squeeze to wheezy.. none had any issues. |
| 16:10 | gmcharlt | as far as Pg, it will be more better in 3.16, but I don't expect it to be a first-class option prior to 3.18 at the earliest |
| 16:11 | clrh: what I"m looking for is this, basically | |
| 16:11 | cait | we are using wheezy, i just checked |
| 16:11 | gmcharlt | #info what big Koha dev projects have people been working on that they might like to get included soon, that they haven't really publicized or made avaialble for early testing |
| 16:12 | and I think we can leave it at that | |
| 16:12 | #topic Follow-up | |
| 16:12 | Topic for #koha is now Follow-up (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC) | |
| 16:12 | gmcharlt | #info There will be a second running of today's meeting at 21:00 UTC |
| 16:12 | as far as follow-up, are folks amenable to an IRC meeting during hackfest? | |
| 16:12 | ashimema | I've been working on a refactoring of the patron import tools.. to introduce a command line version.. but it's not close to ready yet.. |
| 16:13 | cait | i think if it's not too late and interfering with lunch... |
| 16:13 | gmcharlt | :) |
| 16:13 | wajasu | i want to add font configuration support for unicode fonts that support many languages like gentium/SIL and that can be used to print labels (TTF) as dobrivica is promoting. |
| 16:13 | ashimema | gmcharlt.. a followup during hackfest sounds like a pretty good idea. |
| 16:13 | gmcharlt | paul_p: what say you? |
| 16:15 | wajasu | aybe for plack it might be doable to support/use systemd for servers, and that might give us a watchdog to restart our server if it crashes. |
| 16:15 | paul_p | sorry, was with my kids. reading the logs... |
| 16:15 | gmcharlt | the immediate question is my proposal to hold a follow-up dev IRC meeting during hackfest |
| 16:15 | paul_p | yep, another meeting diring the hackfest is a good idea |
| 16:15 | gmcharlt | maybe include Google Hangout and the like as an option |
| 16:16 | are there any days that are best during hackfest? | |
| 16:16 | Joubu | ashimema: we have worked on that too |
| 16:16 | (patron import tools) | |
| 16:16 | ashimema | question: is anyone working towards bug 8190 going in? |
| 16:16 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha |
| 16:16 | paul_p | gmcharlt HG++, we use it all the time, |
| 16:16 | gmcharlt not monday nor friday. I would say wed | |
| 16:16 | monday = not everybody here. friday= some already left. | |
| 16:17 | tuesday = let's start | |
| 16:17 | wed or thu = we're full power :D | |
| 16:17 | ashimema | Joubu.. we should chat.. I've been following the various open bugs and merging in stuff.. but my work is high refactoring so didn't want to publicise it untill at least some of it works ;) |
| 16:17 | gmcharlt | does 15:00 UTC on 12 March work, then? |
| 16:17 | clrh | ashimema: passed qa for 8 months what are you looking for ? Joubu worked on this bz |
| 16:17 | gmcharlt | ashimema: Joubu: great, that's exactly the sort of thing I want to see |
| 16:18 | cait | paul_p: wed or thu sound good to me too |
| 16:18 | matts | ashimema, do you already have a BZ for that work ? |
| 16:18 | gmcharlt | clrh: and to be blunt - it needs work; IMO a logging module that does not include syslog support right away, and reinvents standard CPAN modules, was problematic |
| 16:19 | ashimema | not yet.. I'll put one up soon iminently.. was one of those things.. I started playing around with it and got lost in the details. |
| 16:19 | Joubu | gmcharlt: so the status is failed qa? |
| 16:19 | clrh | gmcharlt: but it adds value no ? |
| 16:19 | gmcharlt | Joubu: IMO yes, and I apologize for not being more direct about it |
| 16:20 | ashimema | gmcharlt, clrh: I'd love to see some decent logging in koha.. my recollection was that gmcharlt was going to post an counter proposal.. |
| 16:20 | wajasu | i was looking at Badger maybe Badger::Log |
| 16:20 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I didn't reinvent CPAN module, I used Log::LogLite anyway |
| 16:20 | gmcharlt | clrh: adding value isn't the only criteria |
| 16:20 | ashimema: yes; time has gotten away form me | |
| 16:20 | clrh | gmcharlt: depends the point of view |
| 16:20 | ashimema | okies.. no worries.. jsut wondered on status and thought today a good time to give it a nudge ;) |
| 16:21 | gmcharlt | clrh: long-term supportability matters too, and in this case, there are better ways to do it |
| 16:21 | marcelr | sounds more like In Discussion than Failed QA |
| 16:21 | cait | clrh: i think the statsu shoudl probably have been In Discussion |
| 16:21 | Joubu | gmcharlt: In my opinion, if a patch improves the existing code/behavior, it is worth pushing it. |
| 16:21 | cait | as a lot of people have expressed concerns on the implementation |
| 16:21 | clrh | for me adding value for a user a developper is time won - if it is better than today, what is the problem ? |
| 16:21 | Joubu | gmcharlt: if it is not perfect, it could be improve later |
| 16:21 | ashimema | too many ways to skin a cat. |
| 16:21 | gmcharlt | Joubu: this is where we have a disagreement |
| 16:22 | please consider the concept of technical debt | |
| 16:22 | wajasu | we have alot of debt |
| 16:22 | marcelr | :) |
| 16:22 | gmcharlt | I woudl argue that we've incurred much more of it than we need to because of being a bit too willing to push anything that reaches us |
| 16:22 | ashimema | that we do.. |
| 16:22 | gmcharlt | but I recognize that there's a balance |
| 16:22 | and room for valid disagreement | |
| 16:22 | thd | gmcharlt: What is mnt by 'technical debt'? |
| 16:22 | Joubu | gmcharlt: I am quite reactive, I think. And I can provide follow-up quickly if it is needed. It is really hard to maintain 80 patches and to rebase them every weeks. |
| 16:23 | ashimema | sorry.. didn't mean to start a war ;) |
| 16:23 | thd | s/ment/meant/ |
| 16:23 | gmcharlt | thd: bascially, deferred technical maintenance on a codebase |
| 16:23 | the C4 => Koha switch is an example of a project to try to pay off some of that debt | |
| 16:23 | Joubu | cait: yes, there were concerns, but no proposition :) |
| 16:23 | cait | i think rangi tried to show some code on how to do it different |
| 16:24 | marcelr | remember he proposed another cpan module |
| 16:24 | cait | I think we need to get better at communicating in general - and communicating early on |
| 16:24 | gmcharlt | cait: he had; a bit more is needed, which was what I was aiming for but didn't get to |
| 16:24 | but let's pause a minute and settle the meeting time | |
| 16:24 | ashimema | agreed |
| 16:24 | gmcharlt | 15:00 UTC and 21:00 UTC on 12 March 2014 for the next dev meeting? |
| 16:25 | clrh | ashimema: talking about disagreements and trying explain ourselves about what we live everyday is not a war I think :) |
| 16:25 | thd | gmcharlt: Do you mean that many small changes are difficult to push now because attention needs to be concentrated fixing historic problems? |
| 16:25 | gmcharlt | thd: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html |
| 16:26 | I can bring up the schedulign question at the 5 March meeting | |
| 16:26 | ashimema | clrh, it was meant lightheardedly.. |
| 16:26 | cait | Joubu: for things in QA t might help to communicate - we communcate where we start with QA and then you can stop rebasing the other sin the meantime, if that would help |
| 16:26 | gmcharlt | but can I have some initial +1/-1 on the date? |
| 16:26 | ashimema | light-heartedly |
| 16:26 | gmcharlt | ashimema: so you whispered it? ;) |
| 16:26 | thd | +1 |
| 16:27 | oleonard | +1 |
| 16:27 | ashimema | :p |
| 16:27 | tcohen | +1 |
| 16:27 | cait | +1 |
| 16:27 | ashimema | +1 |
| 16:27 | Joubu | +1 |
| 16:27 | marcelr | +1 |
| 16:27 | paul_p | gmcharlt = will the meeting last 1 hour ? |
| 16:27 | matts | +1 |
| 16:27 | ashimema | +1 |
| 16:27 | for a hour.. | |
| 16:28 | wajasu | +1 |
| 16:28 | gmcharlt | paul_p: yeah |
| 16:28 | ashimema | don't want to eat into hacking time too long ;) |
| 16:28 | paul_p | +1 then |
| 16:28 | gmcharlt | paul_p: I'll rely on you to manage the chatterboxes in Marseille ;) |
| 16:28 | paul_p | IRC or hangout ? |
| 16:28 | ashimema | hangout +1 |
| 16:29 | tcohen | hangout++ |
| 16:29 | cait | how many hanging out can the wifi support? :) |
| 16:29 | gmcharlt | #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting) |
| 16:29 | ashimema | hangout on big screen maybe? |
| 16:29 | we can work that out closer to the time though me thinks. | |
| 16:29 | gmcharlt | possibliy both IRC and Hangout |
| 16:29 | paul_p | ashimema in BibLibre office, we can HG on a projector |
| 16:29 | Joubu | there is a limitation at 9 users on hg I think |
| 16:29 | gmcharlt | given the limit, yes |
| 16:30 | ashimema | think you can get around the limit using a google apps for business account? |
| 16:30 | paul_p | all hackfest attendees can share the same HG, so it could work |
| 16:30 | ashimema | sure I could offer ours if that's the case |
| 16:31 | gmcharlt | ashimema: please find out |
| 16:31 | OK | |
| 16:31 | #endmeeting | |
| 16:31 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org. Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC. | |
| 16:31 | huginn` | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 16:31:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 16:31 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-14.59.html | |
| 16:31 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-14.59.txt | |
| 16:31 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-14.59.log.html | |
| 16:31 | rhcl | gmcharlt: RHCL generally supports the move to Unimarc as long as most of the user-end effects are textual. Currently we have to manually remove accent marks, especially in ES, when entering data. |
| 16:32 | thd | gmcharlt: Please help me to understand a little better the consequence of giving consideration to technical debt in Koha. |
| 16:32 | cait | rhcl: i think you might be confusing things :) |
| 16:33 | ashimema | gmcharlt.. will take a look. |
| 16:33 | rhcl | cait: quite possibly |
| 16:33 | gmcharlt | thd: in a nutshell - there is the possibility that a particular implementation of a new idea may inevitably incur more than the usual amount of cleanup required later |
| 16:33 | thd | gmcharlt: Do we hold back patches for minor incremental improvements pending a change in architecture? |
| 16:33 | cait | rhcl: I think you mean ICU - that would fix the accents |
| 16:33 | vfernandes | can I ask now? :P |
| 16:34 | gmcharlt | thd: that sort of technical debt is a tax on the ability of developers to add new features in the future |
| 16:34 | cait | rhcl: you can type them or not type them, both will find what you are looking for |
| 16:34 | gmcharlt | thd: and consideration should be given to avoding that |
| 16:34 | wajasu | vfernandes: yes |
| 16:34 | ashimema | vfernandes.. go ahead.. |
| 16:34 | cait | rhcl: and you can already have that now :) |
| 16:34 | gmcharlt | thd: however, I encourage you to read and ponder the Martin Fowler piece and the links from it first |
| 16:35 | cait | UNIMARC is like MARC21 - just a bit different and used mostly in France and I think Spain? |
| 16:35 | jcamins | cait: Portugal. |
| 16:35 | wahanui | rumour has it portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe |
| 16:35 | cait | and ES will be Elastic search |
| 16:35 | vfernandes | with independentbranches on the librarian can only edit items of her librarian |
| 16:35 | cait | which is not quite there yet :) |
| 16:36 | vfernandes | can I give a librarian access to a group of libraries |
| 16:36 | thd | gmcharlt: I should have stated that I read and understood the Martin Fowler explanation of a well acknowledged problem. |
| 16:36 | vfernandes | for example I have an installation with 5 independent libraries... but to a librarian I want to give access to 3 of that 5 libraries |
| 16:36 | it is possible? | |
| 16:37 | thd | gmcharlt: I am trying to discover what practical effect considering 'technical debt' is intended to have on prospective patches. |
| 16:37 | vfernandes | ps: UNIMARC is common in Portugal :) |
| 16:39 | wajasu | did we every try getting Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testmysqld or Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testpostgresql running? |
| 16:39 | * ashimema | heads off to QA bug 11096 |
| 16:40 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra |
| 16:40 | gmcharlt | thd: it is one of several criteria that could lead to a patch being rejected or deferred if it is judged to impose to much debt |
| 16:40 | vfernandes | can I give a librarian access to more than 1 library using independentbranches on= |
| 16:40 | ? | |
| 16:40 | thd | gmcharlt: Thank you, that was the answer which I was seeking. |
| 16:42 | * cait | cheers ashimema on |
| 16:42 | thd | druthb: are you now here? |
| 16:42 | druthb | for some value of "here" |
| 16:44 | thd | druthb: I am interested in further clarification on the right to left language issue for MARC. |
| 16:44 | cait | vfernandes: you could add another account, but apart from that you will have to wait for some features that khall was working on |
| 16:44 | wajasu | somebody give me something to test/signoff on. i am having a hard time finding things that aren't in some state of gridlock. |
| 16:44 | cait | vfernandes: currently it's totally divdided or all together,not much in between |
| 16:44 | vfernandes | damn it :D |
| 16:45 | i was afraid of that | |
| 16:45 | thd | druthb: You were told that a MARC display should be generally left to right for MARC even when cataloguing in a right to left language, if I understood correctly. |
| 16:47 | oleonard | Is there something I need to enable in order to be able to schedule reports? |
| 16:47 | I get "Failed to add scheduled task" when I try to do so. | |
| 16:47 | Oh, and I see an error in the log: "You do not have permission to use atq." | |
| 16:47 | thd | druthb: Should the content of the textual subfields, however, not be right to left within the individual subfield while the record as a whole and coded non-textual subfields would be left to right? |
| 16:47 | cait | oleonard: i never got around that :( |
| 16:50 | thd | druthb: Is the problem for MARC in right to left languages really one of lack of granularity for how Koha had been treating right to left for the record editor in particular? |
| 16:52 | wajasu | cait. i was able to make the xslt subject headings an html list, but ran into the complex case where 505a was a big chunk of subjects delimited by -- in a format note. So i did not have time to get into search/replace coding in xslt. |
| 16:54 | thd | druthb: Is my question about record editor presentation in right to left languages clear? |
| 16:54 | wajasu | as is the case for http://library.redeemerseminar[…]=kw,wrdl:%20vines |
| 16:56 | oleonard | Is the task scheduler run via cron job? |
| 16:57 | wajasu | atq i believe is the linux "at" command for running a one time job with cron. |
| 16:58 | http://linux.about.com/library[…]d/blcmdl1_atq.htm | |
| 16:58 | atq lists jobs | |
| 17:00 | gmcharlt | I would appreciate feedback on bug 11836, as I see a couple different directions for centralizing the cataloging toolbar management code |
| 17:00 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11836 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , population of template variables used by cat-toolbar.inc should be centralized |
| 17:03 | oleonard | I'm trying to test saved reports with some data in the "saved results" column and I don't know what to do. I successfully scheduled a report but it doesn't seem to have run. |
| 17:03 | wajasu | i'd go with the later option, since its presentation specfic. But if you want a test written, the class you mentioned might be easier to write one for. |
| 17:04 | oleonard: let me try in my environment. I was working on some yesterday. | |
| 17:06 | gmcharlt | bug 11837 is similar |
| 17:06 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11837 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , generation of template-variables used by members-toolbar.inc should be centralized |
| 17:06 | wajasu | i have the same problem trying to schedule. let me look at the code. |
| 17:06 | gmcharlt | wajasu: actually, I don't think it's any harder to write test cases for template plugins |
| 17:07 | e.g., t/db_dependent/Koha_template_plugin_Branches.t | |
| 17:07 | wajasu | ok. a plugin. |
| 17:07 | wahanui | a plugin is jquery.qtip.js. It's used somewhere in budgets admin I think |
| 17:07 | oleonard | wahanui: forget a plugin |
| 17:07 | wahanui | oleonard: I forgot plugin |
| 17:11 | jenkins_koha | Project Koha_master build #1644: SUCCESS in 2 hr 1 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1644/ |
| 17:11 | Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item | |
| 17:11 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item |
| 17:14 | mtompset_away joined #koha | |
| 17:14 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 17:14 | Joubu | gmcharlt: The patch you proposed on bug 10865 looks good to me, good catch! |
| 17:14 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed |
| 17:16 | gmcharlt | oleonard: do you want to apply some styling to it now? |
| 17:17 | Joubu: thanks for testing it | |
| 17:17 | and thanks for fixing my typo ;) | |
| 17:17 | * oleonard | will take a look |
| 17:20 | ashimema joined #koha | |
| 17:21 | * gmcharlt | wonders if DataTables can be induced to let one specify sortable columns by (say) header row ID or class rather than numeric postion |
| 17:23 | wajasu | if this is the library we use http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs[…]ble.Sortable.html i believe so. then we won't have bugs creep up when columns added. |
| 17:23 | gmcharlt | YUI is dead to us |
| 17:23 | http://datatables.net/ is what I'm referring to | |
| 17:25 | cait left #koha | |
| 17:26 | gmcharlt | and to answer my question - looks like yes, via aoColumnDefs/aTargets |
| 17:30 | oleonard | Yeah gmcharlt that method is used in some places I think. |
| 17:30 | I | |
| 17:31 | try to pick the least verbose config for each case | |
| 17:32 | tcohen | @later tell eythian I've just released a patched Memoize::Memcached. Its my first CPAN contribution and is a trivial patch. Would you take a look at it and comment on problem you find? |
| 17:32 | huginn` | tcohen: The operation succeeded. |
| 17:35 | gmcharlt | oleonard: I just sent an email to koha-devel about it |
| 17:35 | in this case, I suspect that a bit more verbosity may help us in the long run | |
| 17:36 | tcohen++ | |
| 17:36 | reiveune | bye |
| 17:36 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 17:37 | gmcharlt | tcohen: where does the source repo for it live, nowadyas? |
| 17:37 | tcohen | there wasn't any, i started a gitorious one |
| 17:37 | gmcharlt | were you able to reach the original maintainer at all, or did you have to request a takeover from CPAN? |
| 17:38 | tcohen | i coordinated it with the original author |
| 17:38 | gmcharlt | cool |
| 17:38 | tcohen | he gave me the rights |
| 17:39 | mtompset | Sweet! |
| 17:39 | Greetings, gmcharlt tcohen oleonard. | |
| 17:40 | Greetings, wajasu Joubu. :) | |
| 17:40 | wajasu | Hiya! |
| 17:42 | if anyone sees something testable I should try or rescue just give me a bg number | |
| 17:43 | oleonard | wajasu: http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]n=run&sharer_id=1 |
| 17:43 | wajasu | i'm not sure bug 1993 is working. at least not for me on master. |
| 17:43 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1993 major, P3, ---, sophie.meynieux, In Discussion , Task Scheduler Needs Re-write |
| 17:49 | mtompset | Is 20GB a good recommendation for minimal disk space required? |
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| 17:51 | mtompset | wajasu: Doesn't that task scheduler use at? |
| 17:51 | I vaguely remember having to do something I didn't want to do in order to get it to run. | |
| 17:52 | wajasu | probably add http to /etc/at.allow and such. its got some other problem. got to debug. |
| 17:53 | gmcharlt | mtompset: one can go lower for a toy database, but there's a point where I prefer not to encourage people to skimp too m9uch on disk space |
| 17:53 | heck, not even toy, a small library can live on 20G | |
| 17:53 | but generally disk is cheap | |
| 17:56 | mtompset | The reason I ask is because someone thought, "Oh, 4GB should be enough for an Ubuntu install with a Koha git install," and discovered it wasn't. |
| 17:57 | So they created bug 11830, and I pointed out that I've got a 15GB VM and only have 2.7G free now. | |
| 17:57 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11830 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Document disk space requirements for git install on Ubuntu |
| 17:57 | mtompset | So, I redid what they patched, but with 20GB. |
| 17:58 | I can't wait until 14.04 comes out. I love new LTS releases. :) | |
| 17:58 | wajasu | they were creating a VM. i have one now at 4G and am at 91% full. I'm sure they put 6GB so as not to hava VM thats too big. |
| 17:59 | * tcohen | knows storage space is expensive |
| 17:59 | gmcharlt | heh |
| 17:59 | my perspective may be a bit skewed | |
| 17:59 | mtompset | wajasu: But then your data set must be microscopic. |
| 18:00 | gmcharlt | but absent cases where one really cannot get more spaces, I still prefer recommending a little high |
| 18:00 | mtompset | wajasu: Also, are you using Ubuntu? I thought you were some crazy thing like arch linux. |
| 18:00 | wajasu | yes. but I use a script to create new VMs and can adjust the size. |
| 18:00 | gmcharlt | I've seen just one too many setup have issues because they ran out of disk space |
| 18:00 | wajasu | i run on archlinux, but i create a VM doing an automated debian install. |
| 18:02 | tcohen | bye #koha |
| 18:02 | mtompset | oh shoot... did I miss the DBIx meeting stuff? |
| 18:02 | wajasu | i just tweek a preseed.cfg script for different distro, and I sshfs /home/koha/kohaclone to my archlinux host, so I can git clone and use my tools on my host OS. |
| 18:03 | gmcharlt | mtompset: you can have another go during the second part of the meeting |
| 18:03 | mtompset | when is that? |
| 18:03 | wajasu | 3pm CST |
| 18:03 | rocio joined #koha | |
| 18:03 | fridolin | I'm on Lubuntu, you should try it, it realy light and so powerfull |
| 18:03 | wajasu | who is doing the marc editor in javascript? |
| 18:04 | gmcharlt | pianohacker is the primary dev on that project |
| 18:05 | mtompset | Ah, 4pm EST, okay. |
| 18:05 | How long did the first one go, gmcharlt? | |
| 18:06 | gmcharlt | about 1.5 hours |
| 18:07 | I'll be trying to keep the second one closder to 1 | |
| 18:08 | mtompset | Okay good. Because I have to leave at 5:30pm EST. |
| 18:14 | laurence left #koha | |
| 18:22 | wajasu | i'm trying to place ahold in the OPAC. I have all the admin settings on. where does a link or button show up for placing a hold. |
| 18:22 | fridolin left #koha | |
| 18:24 | cait joined #koha | |
| 18:27 | * cait | is back |
| 18:27 | cait | :) |
| 18:30 | gaetan_B | bye ! |
| 18:59 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 19:03 | pianohacker | yo |
| 19:03 | magnuse | yoyoyo |
| 19:04 | rhcl joined #koha | |
| 19:06 | * rangi | reads the log |
| 19:07 | cait | morning rangi |
| 19:10 | rangi | hopefully round 2 will be less whiny and more productive |
| 19:14 | mtompset | whiny? |
| 19:15 | wajasu | folks wanting stuff with no plan of action for every wish mentioned. |
| 19:21 | rangi | maybe i need to show people rebase -i --onto sometime |
| 19:22 | cait | for easier rebasing? |
| 19:22 | * cait | loves it :) |
| 19:22 | cait | using it to manage our few customisations |
| 19:22 | rangi | yep |
| 19:23 | running local branches, with small commits, then merge squash to attach etc | |
| 19:23 | makes life a lot easier | |
| 19:23 | magnuse | put it on the wiki? :-) |
| 19:23 | rangi | im not sure people ever read the wiki ;) |
| 19:24 | what we do need is a librarian or 3 | |
| 19:24 | magnuse | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/Tips_and_tricks |
| 19:24 | rangi | to become curators of the wiki |
| 19:24 | magnuse | yeah, that would be super cool |
| 19:24 | rangi | because its really hard to find stuff unless you know what you are after |
| 19:24 | magnuse | maybe "announce the positions" on the mailinglist? |
| 19:25 | rangi | hmm could be worth a try |
| 19:30 | wajasu | oleanard: i was testing 11702, and it seems to work without the patch. i just used the calendar widget to select the suspend-until date. does it have to do with manual date entry? |
| 19:31 | oleonard: i mean ^^^ | |
| 19:31 | rangi | oleonard: loving the datatables patches, they are great for getting the high school kids to test with the sandbox, 3 more yesterday :) |
| 19:31 | cait | but 11702 |
| 19:31 | bu 11702 | |
| 19:31 | bug 11702 | |
| 19:31 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11702 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold |
| 19:34 | oleonard | Oh I hadn't seen rangi's comment on that bug. |
| 19:35 | wajasu: It doesn't have to do with manual date entry | |
| 19:35 | rangi | oh yeah i wastnt sure about that, gmcharlt http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]g.cgi?id=11702#c2 |
| 19:35 | huginn` | 04Bug 11702: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold |
| 19:36 | oleonard | rangi: I simply looked for date-handling code which worked that I could steal. |
| 19:37 | wajasu | i placed a hold with and without your patch and i queried reserves and got the same behavior. |
| 19:37 | mtompset | wajasu++ # wanting to support an SIL font. ;) |
| 19:38 | rangi | oleonard: yep exactly what i would have done, im just not sure about the state of C4::Dates |
| 19:38 | oleonard | wajasu: You suspended the holds and it saved a valid date? |
| 19:39 | wajasu | well, with my selection of a date from the widget. i just saved with a blank field though and its null. |
| 19:41 | so maybe the null is getting transformed to 000-00-00 in some other hold processing code, and what we need to do is validate the input field. | |
| 19:41 | Joubu | rangi: do you think I was whiny? :) |
| 19:41 | oleonard | wajasu: A hold can either be suspended until a certain date or indefinitely |
| 19:41 | rocio joined #koha | |
| 19:41 | wajasu | ok. so null is fine then. |
| 19:42 | rangi | Joubu: not just you, just the general tone |
| 19:43 | move_ joined #koha | |
| 19:44 | gmcharlt | oleonard: rangi: use of Koha::DateUtils is more idiomatic, nowaways |
| 19:44 | so that patch appears to signal a problem with that module | |
| 19:47 | rangi | *nod* |
| 19:47 | Joubu | rangi: I am often grumpy, but I know git rebase --onto, and it does not help me very much (a lot of patches with several branches to maintain). |
| 19:48 | wajasu | maybe you saw 000-00-00 when working bug 11694? |
| 19:48 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=11694 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve handling of individual hold suspension in Bootstrap OPAC |
| 19:48 | Joubu | So, I hope you will be more productive than "us" too :) |
| 19:48 | good luck | |
| 19:48 | have a good meeting everyone, see you tomorrow | |
| 19:49 | oleonard | Hey all o' y'all gotta get your demos up and running and/or up to date and/or containing bibliographic holdings. Thanks. |
| 19:49 | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]emo_Installations | |
| 19:50 | Until then I beseech someone to test to see if suspending an individual hold in the OPAC works correctly | |
| 19:53 | mtompset | oleonard: How does that tie in with http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes |
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| 19:58 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 19:59 | oleonard | I don't know what you mean mtompset |
| 20:01 | ashimema | @later tell marcelr You asked about SRU with DOM.. the bug I was thinking about was bug 9612 |
| 20:01 | huginn` | ashimema: The operation succeeded. |
| 20:01 | mtompset | http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ailable_Sandboxes |
| 20:01 | oleonard | mtompset: I am aware of the sandboxes. |
| 20:02 | mtompset | Are sandboxes different than demos? |
| 20:02 | ashimema | We gave up on our demo site.. it now 'is' one of our sandbox instances ;) |
| 20:02 | gmcharlt | yes |
| 20:02 | the BL sandboxes are desgined to let somebody claim one, apply a patch series from a bug, and test it | |
| 20:02 | ashimema | but yes.. a demo is differnt to a sandbox.. ours just hapens to be running upon a sandbox so always follwoing master ;) |
| 20:03 | gmcharlt.. ptfs europe host a few sandboxes now too.. I've added a umber for the hackfest.. | |
| 20:03 | right.. time for some dinner before the next meetins | |
| 20:04 | * mtompset | is putting on his chauffeur hat. |
| 20:05 | gmcharlt | ashimema: ah cool, I wasn't aware of that |
| 20:05 | mrenvoize joined #koha | |
| 20:05 | _ashimema | ;) |
| 20:09 | cait | ashimema++ and ptfs_europe++ |
| 20:10 | _ashimema | thanks cait ;) |
| 20:11 | cait | it's really cool :) |
| 20:11 | _ashimema | been looking over my nginx/plack testing.. that patch isn't in bad shape actually.. with a medium amount of effort it should be ready for signoff/qa |
| 20:12 | mrenvoize joined #koha | |
| 20:12 | cait | :) |
| 20:13 | mrenvoize | i'm thinking a followup would be needed to ensure compatability with packages mind.. but then the patch i'm thinking of was only ever originally designed for testing purposes. |
| 20:13 | cait | i am a bit worried about the new apache version |
| 20:13 | it already gives me trouble with ubuntu on my laptop | |
| 20:13 | rangi | yeah we need to finish that bug |
| 20:13 | cait | would be good to see that moving too |
| 20:14 | mrenvoize | I remember reading through that bug.. whats holding it up, I can't remember |
| 20:14 | rhcl joined #koha | |
| 20:14 | cait | hm maybe it was packages |
| 20:14 | because needs to be changed there too? not sure | |
| 20:15 | * mrenvoize | goes off to read the bug |
| 20:15 | mrenvoize | ack |
| 20:16 | oleonard | So... scheduling saved reports. Is that simply not working? Or am I missing something? |
| 20:16 | cait | it did never work for me |
| 20:16 | but i think _ashimema might know something | |
| 20:16 | but i think you can't do it from th einterface, only manually adding a cronjob maybe? | |
| 20:18 | jcamins | oleonard: I don't think that's ever worked. |
| 20:18 | Certainly when I started using Koha in 2009 I was told that the feature didn't work. | |
| 20:18 | wajasu | it doesn't look like it should work as it is now. i'm looking ate tools/scheduler.pl on master and its still got EXPORT in caps. |
| 20:20 | mrenvoize joined #koha | |
| 20:20 | mrenvoize | you can do this in both packages and dev installs |
| 20:21 | barton | I'm tryiing to get an understanding of what the file 'ccl.properties' does. http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ng_Zebra_indexing only says "for searching purposes". |
| 20:21 | mrenvoize | but yeah.. the staff client scheduling has never worked since i've been working with koha.. though I'de love to see that change... it's on my todo list.. but not very high up it |
| 20:22 | rangi | mrenvoize: https://soundcloud.com/high-ra[…]the-eye-feat-paul <-- nz/uk collaboration |
| 20:24 | cait | hm i think |
| 20:24 | mapping the bib1 attribute to the index? | |
| 20:24 | but others will know better :) | |
| 20:24 | ashimema | nice.. |
| 20:24 | barton.. just diggin out my notes on that | |
| 20:25 | cait | ashimema: don#t forget your dinner! |
| 20:25 | ashimema | pressure cookers are great.. 2 hours dinner cooked in minutes ! |
| 20:25 | barton | ashimema: I actually found something on this -- http://manual.koha-community.o[…]/searchguide.html |
| 20:25 | ashimema | tasty ragu |
| 20:25 | cool | |
| 20:27 | barton.. pming you my notes anyways. they're rather concise.. it took me ages to work them out. | |
| 20:27 | cait | ashimema++ :) |
| 20:28 | ashimema | rangi: awesome song. |
| 20:29 | * cait | is also listening to it :) |
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| 20:32 | ashimema | barton: here's my zebra braindump in a more edible format: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]i/MRenvoize/zebra |
| 20:33 | barton | ashimema++ |
| 20:33 | rangi | https://soundcloud.com/loopcre[…]nd-not-the-lesson <-- paul mclaney .. but this time with module who is from island bay (my suburb) |
| 20:33 | jcamins | NOOOOOOO!!!! |
| 20:34 | ashimema: ummm... step two of the additional steps for DOM indexing is not so good. | |
| 20:34 | That step instructs you to run make_zebra_dom_cfg_from_record_abs. | |
| 20:34 | ashimema | there are further notes as to why that's a bad idea.. |
| 20:35 | or did i copy the wrong page from our internal wiki. | |
| 20:35 | jcamins | Wrong page, I think. |
| 20:35 | ashimema | checking now.. |
| 20:35 | jcamins | That just tells you to make a few manual changes after regenerating the DOM config. |
| 20:37 | ashimema | yeah.. needs more thinking through.. but I was hoping to just get the point of ccl.properties accross really.. |
| 20:37 | not meant to be a 'public' per say page.. | |
| 20:38 | cait | maybe just delete the part about dom for now? |
| 20:38 | no confusion :) | |
| 20:38 | jcamins | The rest of it's right. |
| 20:38 | ashimema | barton: jcamins is right.. if your using grs-1 it's fine.. jsut ignore the dom extra's.. if your want dom. ask hree for further clarification |
| 20:38 | * ashimema | goes and cleans out the dom bit of that page. |
| 20:39 | * cait | thinks that page has nicer formatting than most of our other pages |
| 20:39 | jcamins | cait: it does. |
| 20:39 | ashimema | jcamins.. how would you go and update dom configs now then.. (i still use those scripts, then diff their output with a backup of the original copying across the extra's form the old to the new) |
| 20:40 | yeah.. I like wiki's ;) | |
| 20:40 | unfortunately our 'private wiki' has turned into my personal brain dump now as they the company decided to switch to google sites (which is horrible) | |
| 20:41 | and.. the formatting would be nicer if it community ran up to date mediawiki.. there's folding and all sorts on that page.. but it doesn't work with community version of mediawiki ;) | |
| 20:41 | barton | ashimema actually, I *am* using DOM. |
| 20:41 | ashimema | dang.. |
| 20:41 | rangi | ashimema: just making the GHCQ's job easier |
| 20:41 | cait | ? |
| 20:41 | ashimema | ok.. I'll have a go at updating the docs |
| 20:41 | indeed | |
| 20:41 | rangi | sorry gchq |
| 20:42 | ashimema | lol.. I almost got a job with them before koha ;) |
| 20:42 | rangi | heh |
| 20:42 | jcamins | ashimema: you have to edit koha-indexdefs.xml and then generate the xsl from that. |
| 20:42 | It's just the first part of that step that's bad. | |
| 20:43 | The problem is that running that first command could be very, very bad. Especially if you have a large database, and decide to reindex. | |
| 20:43 | * jcamins | shudders at the thought. |
| 20:43 | ashimema | yeah.. I've never taken the time to understand koha-indexdef.xml well enough to edit it directly yet though jcamins ;) |
| 20:43 | gmcharlt | it's not that complicated |
| 20:43 | jcamins | It's very simple. |
| 20:43 | ashimema | hense why I use the script, then vimdiff with my backup.. it works well enough. |
| 20:43 | lol.. i've barely ever opened the file.. | |
| 20:43 | jcamins | Sometimes a little too simple, alas. |
| 20:43 | gmcharlt | though as is common with XML formats, I wouldn't be surprised if the verbosity gets in the way for a lot of folks |
| 20:44 | jcamins: complexifying patches welcome ;) | |
| 20:44 | * jcamins | has versions of the Zebra indexdefs that are handwritten, alas. |
| 20:44 | ashimema | mostly I was pulling accross customisations for customers during upgrades.. so the changes had been made pre-dom. |
| 20:44 | jcamins | gmcharlt: eh, I have had nowhere near enough problems to justify complexifying it, just observing that it can happen. |
| 20:45 | ashimema | well.. with any luck we'll be withdraing non-dom support.. then i don't have to bother trying ot keep the two configs synced ;) |
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| 20:48 | ashimema | is it worth me sanitizing my zebra page and sticking it in the wiki proper then?.. there is a page on there that already attempts to explain it.. but it's a bit less 'clear' |
| 20:49 | jcamins | You could update the existing page by copying in your text. I think the existing page is mostly just a copy of things that were said in IRC. |
| 20:50 | ashimema | yup |
| 20:50 | gmcharlt | #3 isn't quite true if QP is on |
| 20:50 | ashimema | of course.. that makes sense |
| 20:51 | QP uses pqf right? | |
| 20:51 | gmcharlt | yep |
| 20:51 | second half of the meeting starts in 9 minutes | |
| 20:51 | * rangi | gets coffee |
| 20:52 | ashimema | or was is cql.. or forget.. jcamins care to pipe up ;) |
| 20:52 | jcamins | PQF. |
| 20:52 | ashimema | i remeber you exmplaining it.. but don't remeber which tla was which ;) |
| 20:52 | cheers mate | |
| 20:53 | pqf, but falls back to ccl for a number of cases does it not? | |
| 20:53 | docrowe joined #koha | |
| 20:53 | jcamins | It falls back to non-QP existing code if it can't handle the query, yeah. |
| 20:54 | ashimema | coolios.. |
| 20:55 | wajasu | how about some cookies |
| 20:59 | thd | gmcharlt: Is the second half of the meeting intended to have a partly different agenda or merely serve a different timezone? |
| 20:59 | eythian_ joined #koha | |
| 20:59 | eythian_ | There's a meeting thing about now, right? |
| 21:00 | gmcharlt | thd: same agenda |
| 21:00 | cait | yep eythian |
| 21:00 | thd | eythinan_: yes |
| 21:01 | gmcharlt | #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC |
| 21:01 | huginn` | Meeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:00 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 21:01 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 21:01 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:01 | huginn` | The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc' |
| 21:01 | gmcharlt | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]February_25,_2014 |
| 21:01 | #topic Introductions | |
| 21:01 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 21:01 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:01 | mtompset | #info Mark Tompsett |
| 21:01 | gmcharlt | #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA |
| 21:01 | eythian_ | #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ |
| 21:01 | JesseM | #info Jesse Maseto - ByWater |
| 21:02 | rangi | #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ |
| 21:02 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 21:03 | ashimema | #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe, UK |
| 21:03 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ |
| 21:04 | gmcharlt | ok, I'm going to recap announcements from the previous meeting |
| 21:04 | #topic Announcements | |
| 21:04 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:04 | gmcharlt | #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille |
| 21:04 | #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue | |
| 21:04 | rangi | cool |
| 21:05 | gmcharlt | #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March |
| 21:05 | wahanui | i already had it that way, gmcharlt. |
| 21:05 | jcamins | #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services |
| 21:05 | mtompset | -- kitten rescue? |
| 21:05 | gmcharlt | mtompset: resucing patches in failed QA or does not aply status |
| 21:05 | mtompset | thank you. |
| 21:05 | ashimema | everybody love saving kitten mtompset |
| 21:05 | gmcharlt | any other announcements folks care to make? |
| 21:07 | ok | |
| 21:07 | rangi | ill cover mine when we get to elasticsearch |
| 21:07 | gmcharlt | #topic RM questions |
| 21:07 | Topic for #koha is now RM questions (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:07 | gmcharlt | I'm passing over the UNIMARC questions and repeating this one: |
| 21:07 | is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? | |
| 21:07 | #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? | |
| 21:08 | ashimema | I looked over my notes for bug 9316 as promised at the earlier meeting. |
| 21:08 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack |
| 21:08 | ashimema | It's not in bad shape really.. probably a worthwhile one to work through for getting plack easily usable by all |
| 21:09 | eythian_ | from a packaging point of view, it's close but there is one major issue with it that I haven't tried to solve yet, and that's that it won't do shared sites well at all at the moment. |
| 21:09 | ashimema | it was, however, mostly aimed at making plack more easily installable and therfore testable.. I don't know if it's the 'best' way of doing it, or how it plays with packages. |
| 21:09 | gmcharlt | another issue that rangi has mentioned, but which I'm not sure is in a bug yet, is management of connections to Zebra |
| 21:09 | eythian_ | i.e. if you have 10 workers sitting around, and 10 sites on there, that's going to end up with 100 workers running, and no memory. |
| 21:10 | gmcharlt | in particular, zebrasrv will time out connections, but there's apparently no good way for the ZOOM API to detect that |
| 21:10 | so users can run into a backend that has lost its Zebra connectin | |
| 21:10 | rangi | thats exactly it |
| 21:10 | ashimema | ooh. not thought of either of those points. |
| 21:10 | eythian_ | we do have a handy script that'll turn a regular package installation into a plack installation. |
| 21:11 | ashimema | cool.. eythian.. any chance of sharing that? |
| 21:11 | rangi | only the opac tho |
| 21:11 | ashimema | would hapily help with testing here. |
| 21:11 | eythian_ | https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify <-- ashimema |
| 21:11 | no wait | |
| 21:11 | hmm, not sure where it lives. | |
| 21:12 | rangi | on git.catalyst |
| 21:12 | 2 secs | |
| 21:12 | ashimema | cheers. |
| 21:12 | eythian_ | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha-plack.git |
| 21:12 | ^-- there | |
| 21:12 | rangi | thats it |
| 21:13 | however for the search to work consistently | |
| 21:13 | you need something like this | |
| 21:13 | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]86e253cb4dfe04597 | |
| 21:14 | (but nicer obviously) | |
| 21:14 | mtompset | Hmmm... that reminds me of a patch I recently signed off. |
| 21:14 | eythian_ | Ideally we'd build the proxy into the install. |
| 21:14 | mtompset | or read. |
| 21:15 | thd` joined #koha | |
| 21:15 | ashimema | so.. in short it needs a bit more thought and testing |
| 21:15 | rangi | yes |
| 21:15 | the opac, apart from that problem works well | |
| 21:15 | gmcharlt | that confirms my suspicions |
| 21:15 | eythian_ | but when it works, it works really nicely. |
| 21:15 | rangi | the intranet needs a ton more testing |
| 21:15 | ashimema | I thought paul_p had it running somewhere.. surprised he's not pointed out the search issues |
| 21:16 | cait | hm he said something about having to restart it or something? |
| 21:16 | ashimema | yeah.. good point cait. |
| 21:16 | thd` joined #koha | |
| 21:16 | cait | also the problem is that a single library will never use all features |
| 21:16 | circ might work well, while some tool doesn't | |
| 21:16 | thd` | To what extent is work on elastic search being shared between Koha and Evergreen? |
| 21:16 | wajasu | has anyone though of using systemd to manage start/restart/stop of servers. i believe systemd can be a watchdog and restart crashed services. |
| 21:17 | rangi | thd`: we arent even up to that yet |
| 21:17 | thd` | sorry, I was disconnected |
| 21:17 | ashimema | indeed.. I was hoping to use a few of our more friendly customers as ginny pigs |
| 21:17 | eythian_ | wajasu: the problem is mostly memory leaks and unreleased resources, I think. |
| 21:17 | gmcharlt | replacing Evergreen's search engine is not on anybody's radar to my knowledge |
| 21:17 | rangi | wajasu: its not a stopped/crashed server |
| 21:17 | its a timed out connection | |
| 21:17 | wajasu | oh |
| 21:17 | rangi | zebra very very very rarely crashes |
| 21:18 | the ZOOM api has no way of knowing if a connection is live | |
| 21:18 | in fact z3950 | |
| 21:18 | is not designed to be used in the way we use it | |
| 21:18 | however, 99% of the world try to do the same thing we do | |
| 21:19 | which is why yaz-proxy and things like it exist | |
| 21:19 | and why LOC use yaz-proxy in front of their ILS | |
| 21:19 | gmcharlt | indeed |
| 21:19 | I think this is a reasonable seque to... | |
| 21:19 | #topic Elastic Search | |
| 21:19 | Topic for #koha is now Elastic Search (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:19 | * ashimema | got left behind at the mention of yaz-proxy... |
| 21:19 | gmcharlt | rangi: can you give a summary of where Catalyst is with it? |
| 21:20 | thd` | rangi: In what way do you mean not designed for our use case? |
| 21:20 | rangi | we have one client running the opac in production |
| 21:20 | gmcharlt | ashimema: (briefly, yaz-proxy in front of Zebra will take care of trying and reopening the Zebra connect if it times out) |
| 21:20 | rangi | with the above commit, to make it reconnect to zebra each search (exactly what happens under cgi) |
| 21:20 | ashimema | thought that might be the case.. cheers gmcharlt |
| 21:20 | rangi | it works great, and has stopped the site dying under big load which it used to do each month |
| 21:21 | (when they publish a newsletter that pounded the opac to death) | |
| 21:21 | eythian_ | yeah, it barely broke a sweat with thousands of requests in a short space of time |
| 21:21 | ashimema | I see, a worthwhile note.. |
| 21:21 | rangi | we are planning to do a lot more testing on the intranet |
| 21:21 | eythian_ | normally it'd be all OOM then die |
| 21:21 | rangi | yep |
| 21:21 | id happily run the opac under plack, with the ZConn fix | |
| 21:21 | eythian_ | (I did spend time tuning it to ensure it couldn't OOM under plack too, that's necessary but not hard._ |
| 21:21 | ) | |
| 21:22 | rangi | in production |
| 21:22 | thd`: holding connections open | |
| 21:22 | ashimema | so.. may worth working that installer patch out such that it cleanly adds the workaround so we can get more sites testing rigorously. |
| 21:23 | rangi | but it would be better to get yaz-proxy in there, which will be useful under cgi too |
| 21:23 | * ashimema | adds mental note |
| 21:23 | thd` | rangi: If you do not hold connections open with Z39.50 your request fails. |
| 21:23 | * ashimema | apologises for holding up conversation on ElasticSearch.. |
| 21:23 | eythian_ | there's no reason we couldn't add it to the package install, perhaps as an option, aside from someone taking the time to do it. |
| 21:23 | rangi | *nod* |
| 21:24 | gmcharlt | ok, dragging us back on topic, please... |
| 21:24 | cait | ashimema: things are clearer for me now too - so thx for holding up |
| 21:24 | :) | |
| 21:25 | rangi | right elastic search |
| 21:25 | we have indexing (when a biblio is modified) and a basic search going | |
| 21:26 | eythian has done work on an iterator for biblios to allow for a batch index (amongst others) | |
| 21:26 | eythian_ | still not ready, but getting there. |
| 21:26 | rangi | next on the cards is a browse search, whcih is one of hte requirements of the funding institution |
| 21:27 | after that, intranet search | |
| 21:27 | gmcharlt | browse in this case meaning what, exactly? bib headings, authority headings, or both? |
| 21:27 | thd` | rangi: How is browse search envisioned by the client? |
| 21:28 | rangi | then time permitting, create a fully js search page, (since elasticsearch hands back JSON) |
| 21:28 | gmcharlt: kinda both | |
| 21:28 | cait | rangi: what does basic search include? |
| 21:28 | rangi | thd`: a library browse .. so something no one else on the planet would understand |
| 21:28 | but apparently is vitally important to librarians | |
| 21:29 | ashimema | lol, I've never really understood what librarians mean by 'browse search' |
| 21:29 | rangi | cait: just author, keyword, title at the moment |
| 21:29 | cait | that's not too bad :) |
| 21:29 | eythian_ | once the fundamentals are in place, adding more is easy. |
| 21:29 | rangi | we aim to have a demo site up for playing with at the hackfest |
| 21:29 | gmcharlt | WIP can be viewed where? |
| 21:29 | cait | mostly alphabetic index i think - libraries here are asking for that as well |
| 21:29 | thd` | rangi: Does that mean browsing the semantic space of classification or subject headings hierarchically? |
| 21:29 | rangi | yep |
| 21:30 | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]ds/elastic_search | |
| 21:30 | thd`: no idea, im not gonna reread the spec thing now | |
| 21:30 | thd` | ;) |
| 21:30 | rangi | blah blah millenium blah blah horizon .. blah blah |
| 21:30 | thats what it said to me | |
| 21:30 | ashimema | silly question time.. how does it actually fit together in terms of side by side with zebra, drop in replacement.. does your work do anything to abstract so we could use variose search backends? |
| 21:31 | rangi | im hoping we can do something that humans will actually understand though :) |
| 21:31 | ashimema: its working side by side | |
| 21:31 | if you switch the syspref it indexes to elasticsearch TOO | |
| 21:31 | ie its still indexing zebra in the background | |
| 21:32 | so you can have elasticsearch on the opac and zebra on the back (like now) | |
| 21:32 | ashimema | I see.. |
| 21:32 | rangi | it might be a switch, when the intranet searches work with it too |
| 21:32 | ashimema | so keeping zebra for z39.50 (SRU) support, but using ES for OPAC and eventually intranet search |
| 21:33 | rangi | eventually yeah |
| 21:33 | thd` | rangi: Do you mean the your implementation is merely complementary to what Zebra provides because we have tied so much functionality to Zebra? |
| 21:33 | ashimema | coolios. |
| 21:33 | rangi | thd`: i dont want to write a z3950 or sru/sw server |
| 21:33 | is the short answer | |
| 21:34 | thd` | rangi: of course, but I meant update triggers for the database etc. |
| 21:34 | ashimema | z3950/SRU is what zebra is built for.. we may as well keep using it for that ;) |
| 21:34 | at least in the medium term. | |
| 21:34 | rangi | yeah, kaizen :) |
| 21:34 | i figure small incremental improvements are easier to test, and less likely to bustinate everything | |
| 21:35 | the indexer is very simple, at the moment is marc only, but would be able to be other documents with minor changes | |
| 21:35 | ashimema | any comments on abstraction rangi.. is it likely we'll be ableto use this work to 'plug in' other indexers in the future via writing a 'driver'.. |
| 21:35 | rangi | probably not |
| 21:36 | i think that abstraction can actually make it more obtuse and slow | |
| 21:36 | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- indexer | |
| 21:36 | ashimema | fair point. |
| 21:36 | thd` | gmcharlt: At the last Kohacon hackfest the issue of some shared work between Koha and Evergreen in relation to search was discussed. |
| 21:36 | gmcharlt | rangi: ashimema: well that's a relief -- I was worried that we'd never have anything to talk about on koha-devel |
| 21:36 | nengard left #koha | |
| 21:36 | rangi | heh |
| 21:37 | gmcharlt | now I know we're set for life! ;) |
| 21:37 | rangi | we could make Koha::Indexer |
| 21:37 | gmcharlt | thd`: the context was most likely QueryParser |
| 21:37 | rangi | which abstracts over Koha::ElasticSearch::Indexer |
| 21:37 | gmcharlt | I repeat, I know of no serious thoughts about changing Evergreen's search engine at present |
| 21:38 | ashimema | QueryParser was going to be my next question.. in that. how does it fit in in the scheme of things with ES? |
| 21:38 | thd` | gmcharlt: Was the consideration of shared work merely for the user interface parser to which any backend system could be used? |
| 21:38 | rangi | id like that to abstract over Koha::ElasticSearch::Search |
| 21:38 | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]4a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- so tiny and cute | |
| 21:39 | gmcharlt | well, in QP-speak it woudl be more likely a driver that translates to ES queries |
| 21:39 | rangi | yeah that :) |
| 21:39 | ashimema | yeah.. that's what I meant.. |
| 21:39 | ;) | |
| 21:39 | thanks gmcharlt | |
| 21:39 | gmcharlt | but unless you are about to tell me that ES uses ASN.666/BER, we're probably OK ;) |
| 21:40 | rangi | nope |
| 21:40 | its super simple | |
| 21:40 | cait | so we could use query parser to translate searches into elastic search searches? |
| 21:40 | * ashimema | clueless again :$ |
| 21:40 | * cait | tries to follow |
| 21:41 | gmcharlt | #link http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?[…]ds/elastic_search |
| 21:41 | rangi | yes thats the plan |
| 21:42 | http://search.cpan.org/~drtech[…].pm#Query_methods | |
| 21:42 | if you are interested | |
| 21:42 | #info we plan to have a demo in time for the hackfest | |
| 21:42 | cait | very cool |
| 21:42 | totally curious :) | |
| 21:43 | rangi | its a well documented module, which is very handy |
| 21:44 | thats about all i have | |
| 21:45 | cait | rangi++ eythian++ |
| 21:45 | ashimema | ++ |
| 21:45 | rangi | i feel like it will make life a lot better for the future and help with our move from MARC |
| 21:45 | * ashimema | best go read the manual |
| 21:45 | bag | here - sorry to be late |
| 21:45 | gmcharlt | OK, next topic |
| 21:45 | mtompset | actually... how does all this search stuff related to facets showing or not showing? |
| 21:46 | gmcharlt | #topic DBIx::Class |
| 21:46 | Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:46 | bag | ah I have something to add about Zebra - when it's back to that subject |
| 21:46 | gmcharlt | oh, OK :) |
| 21:46 | #topic Searching | |
| 21:46 | Topic for #koha is now Searching (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:46 | gmcharlt | bag go for it |
| 21:46 | ashimema | :) |
| 21:47 | bag | I've talked with gmcharlt and rangi about this. but we've seen zebra fast indexing - when it's doing a merge |
| 21:47 | uses 100% of the I/O | |
| 21:47 | just at that spot | |
| 21:47 | thd` | Even with MARC, anything which scales better is an advantage. |
| 21:47 | bag | rangi or gmcharlt please feel free to say what I said more gracefully |
| 21:47 | rangi | yeah, it becomes I/O bound on the merge step |
| 21:48 | eythian_ | a merge will use a ton of IO, because it's beating up on the disk. |
| 21:48 | ashimema | yup.. we've seen that too bag |
| 21:48 | gmcharlt | and at present nobody's yet dived deep enough into the code to see if it can be readily remedied |
| 21:48 | bag | we've done some testing and can only confirm that if you have mysql on the same disk then everything freezes for a bit |
| 21:48 | eythian_ | a workaround would be to run it with ionice so that other things get priority. |
| 21:49 | gmcharlt | indeed |
| 21:49 | thd` | What are the conditions under which a merge happens with Zebra? |
| 21:49 | gmcharlt | (and separating out I/O for DB vs. everything else is often a good idea for large installations) |
| 21:49 | eythian_ | or have your DB on another server. I've also been meaning to look into having zebra on its own server, but haven't really had the need. |
| 21:49 | bag | thd`: fast indexing - once you are TRYing to add to an index that is already created |
| 21:50 | rangi | chunking the merges into smaller bits may be a solution too |
| 21:50 | but not sure | |
| 21:50 | wajasu | maybe some unix command like renice or ionice can bind the IO for that process. - just a guess |
| 21:51 | bshum joined #koha | |
| 21:51 | bag | rangi we've seen it with merges as little of 100 records |
| 21:51 | gmcharlt | well, if it turns out to help, ionice could be incorporated into the script that launches rebuild_zebra.pl easily enough |
| 21:51 | rangi | bag: maybe not then, darn |
| 21:51 | gmcharlt: thats definitely worth trying | |
| 21:51 | bag | good thought - let's get a bug for that |
| 21:51 | rangi | bag++ #pie |
| 21:51 | gmcharlt | bag: rangi: zebraidx may end up doing index rebalancing regardless of the size of the merge, perhaps |
| 21:52 | bag | heh |
| 21:52 | eythian_ | totally trivial to test, too. |
| 21:52 | bag | gmcharlt++ |
| 21:52 | gmcharlt | bag++ |
| 21:52 | cait | bag++ gmcharlt++ |
| 21:52 | gmcharlt | of course, here's a crazy thought: |
| 21:52 | store the zebra files on a ramdisk | |
| 21:53 | bag | we've gotten around it by getting mysql on a different disk than zebra idx |
| 21:53 | rangi | hmm thats not that crazy |
| 21:53 | eythian_ | could have problems when they get large, also having to do a full rebuild on boot could take a long time. |
| 21:53 | bag | but I'm not sure everyone could afford such a thing |
| 21:53 | rangi | yeah |
| 21:53 | gmcharlt | eythian_: yeah, that's the obvious tradeoff |
| 21:54 | of course, one could s/ramdisk/SSD/, but that still involves expense | |
| 21:54 | rangi | you could index on another machine |
| 21:54 | eythian_ | I do think splitting the disks for the different things could be considered a best practice though. |
| 21:54 | rangi | and rsync |
| 21:54 | thd` | gmcharlt: If something like rebalancing is happening then the process should be batched to cron for late at night. |
| 21:54 | rangi | that may still i/o bind you |
| 21:54 | gmcharlt | indexing but once a data is a non-starter for general use |
| 21:54 | *once a day | |
| 21:54 | eythian_ | thd`: then you don't have updates in near realtime |
| 21:55 | bag | eythian_: best practice yes - but may not be possible for all people installing koha |
| 21:55 | thd` | eythian_: Yes but a non-thrashing system is important. |
| 21:55 | ashimema | I've dabbled with sticing indexes on ssd whilst everything else is on hdd.. it 'felt' quicker, but I ran out of time to really benchmark it properly |
| 21:55 | eythian_ | bag: yep. I'd slap an ionice in front of the rebuild command, see if that helps to start with. |
| 21:55 | mtompset | bag++ #pie |
| 21:55 | gmcharlt++ | |
| 21:56 | gmcharlt | bag: is there a bug yet? |
| 21:56 | bag | I don't know gmcharlt |
| 21:57 | gmcharlt | if not, please file one -- I can't think of a better place at moment to aggregate informatino about zebraidx I/O perofrmance |
| 21:57 | bag | if I don't find it - I will create one |
| 21:57 | gmcharlt | thanks |
| 21:57 | and now I really will change topics | |
| 21:57 | #topic DBIx::Class | |
| 21:57 | Topic for #koha is now DBIx::Class (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 21:57 | bag | thanks |
| 21:57 | gmcharlt | to summarize the discussion this morning |
| 21:57 | there's some pending disagreement about appropriate use of DBIC | |
| 21:58 | with opinions essentially ranging between using the DBIC schema classes as is, and only adding additional layers of abstraction where absolutely needed -- representing bib records is one example | |
| 21:58 | versus wrapping an layer over DBIC objects across the board | |
| 21:59 | and enforcing non-DBIC in the .pl files | |
| 21:59 | I hope I've represented the range fairly | |
| 21:59 | ashimema | that about covers the conversation from earlier gmcharlt |
| 21:59 | * cait | agrees |
| 21:59 | rangi | right |
| 22:00 | gmcharlt | my personal view is the former |
| 22:00 | given that there's a lot of places that simply need to shovel data from DB to presentation | |
| 22:01 | wajasu | and i wanted to get tests written across the data access layer, possibly with NYTProf stats. |
| 22:01 | gmcharlt | and other record types where only a few suplemntary methods would need to be added to the schema classes |
| 22:01 | mtompset | Well, what was the purpose of bringing in the DBIC schema classes into Koha? Was it not DB-agnosticism? |
| 22:01 | gmcharlt | I had made an action item for myself to write up some examples |
| 22:01 | rangi | i agree |
| 22:02 | gmcharlt | but I would appreciate if otehr folks would take up a small bit of functionality and also do some experimentation |
| 22:02 | rangi | there is some in the elastic search stuff |
| 22:02 | larryb joined #koha | |
| 22:03 | gmcharlt | one thing that seems reasonably clear to me, for example, is that adding some syntax sugar to concisely fetch a object of the appropriate schema type given a known idea would be nicer than Koha::Database->...->rs() |
| 22:03 | rangi | yep |
| 22:03 | wajasu | i did run Test:DBIx:Class::Schema against your master last week and it all ran through. |
| 22:03 | rangi | sweet |
| 22:03 | http://blogs.perl.org/users/ov[…]design-flaws.html | |
| 22:03 | this is worth reading too | |
| 22:03 | gmcharlt | mtompset: DB-agnosticism, entering the OO-age, and reducing the need for manually-written SQL |
| 22:04 | but none of that is affected by the current discussion about how to structure use of DBIC | |
| 22:04 | rangi | exacterly |
| 22:04 | cait | i think examples would be great |
| 22:04 | * ashimema | looks forward to some examples that fall into the two camps. |
| 22:05 | ashimema | cait.. you beat me to it again. |
| 22:05 | cait | it didn't look too had when you showed us a bit at kohacon... but i haven't had a chance to look at it since |
| 22:05 | mtompset | cait++ # always on the ball. |
| 22:05 | cait | too hard... |
| 22:06 | gmcharlt | OK, moving on |
| 22:06 | larryb | apologies for joining late, but I wanted to throw out a comment regarding the index rebuild disk IO problem |
| 22:06 | gmcharlt | #topic Pending Large Enhancements |
| 22:06 | Topic for #koha is now Pending Large Enhancements (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 22:06 | gmcharlt | larryb: please hold a few minutes if you don't mind |
| 22:07 | larryb | sure gmcharlt |
| 22:07 | gmcharlt | by large enhancements, I'm basically looking for works-in-progress that are hoped to make it in for 3.16 or 3.18, but which are not necessarily visible enough |
| 22:07 | and which are large enough or world-changing enough that a lot of special work may be required of the testers | |
| 22:07 | the ones I know of include: | |
| 22:08 | - ES | |
| 22:08 | - the new cataloging editor | |
| 22:08 | bag | pianohacker: you here? |
| 22:08 | * ashimema | hides.. it's at this point I brought up the logging bug in the last meeting |
| 22:08 | pianohacker | yo |
| 22:08 | gmcharlt | - Joobu's column-management stuff |
| 22:08 | rangi | im pretty sure i wrote a patch using log4perl that did that, but i cant remember |
| 22:08 | bag | alright if peeps have questions for pianohacker's rancor for large enhancements |
| 22:08 | rangi | heres something to look at |
| 22:09 | gmcharlt | particularly given the recent discusssions on the mailing list about ES, I want to make sure that we don't have folks quietly working on stuff |
| 22:09 | rangi | bag: for pianohacker http://holloway.github.io/doctored/ |
| 22:09 | jcamins | rangi: it's on the logging bug as an attachment. |
| 22:09 | * cait | promises not to quietly work on world changing things :) |
| 22:09 | ashimema | rangi: yeah, you did.. there's a passed qa bug that's really still in discussion.. hotely debated earlier |
| 22:09 | rangi | click on document, then switch the schema to marc21 |
| 22:09 | * bag | has trouble being quiet :P |
| 22:09 | francharb_afk | bye all |
| 22:10 | eythian_ | ashimema: what is the logging bug? |
| 22:10 | bag | ah pianohacker you catch that link from rangi ? |
| 22:10 | rangi | ive been working on NCIP stuff, its kinda aside to Koha |
| 22:10 | ashimema | we're working on a refactoring of borrower_imports, ColinC and I are trying to get EDI back on the playing field and i'm not sure where housebound is at from our front.. |
| 22:10 | rangi | ie its not going to be committed to Koha |
| 22:10 | * ashimema | thanks cait for reminding him about those |
| 22:10 | pianohacker | rangi: yup, taking a look at it, very interesting |
| 22:11 | ashimema | we're also working on ILL |
| 22:11 | bag | ashimema: I'm very interested in the edi work - we've been using the stuff already submitted and not sure how much we've changed |
| 22:11 | rangi | http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?[…]ver.git;a=summary <-- here |
| 22:11 | and | |
| 22:11 | ashimema | eythian_: bug 8190 |
| 22:11 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha |
| 22:11 | rangi | http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=NCIPServer.git |
| 22:12 | gmcharlt | ashimema: say more about ILL? |
| 22:12 | eythian_ | oh, I was thinking there was a bug in koha about logging :) |
| 22:12 | ashimema | bag: I've spoken to khall about it.. we're on good ground with it at the moment between us. |
| 22:12 | bag | awesome |
| 22:12 | ashimema | should be a new patch shortly.. much cleaner and easier to maintain. |
| 22:13 | bag | communication++ |
| 22:13 | cait | communication++ |
| 22:13 | ashimema | gmcharlt: ILL is not my baby i'm afraid.. colinc and mark have been working on it.. I believe it's currenty going through some refactoring to meet 3.16 guidlines |
| 22:13 | communication++ | |
| 22:14 | gmcharlt | ashimema: pointers to more information would be great, if you wouldn't mind poking them |
| 22:14 | pianohacker | I can make a patch series fairly soon, but I'm curious as to what sort of functionality would be necessary for a first series; it can save to the catalog, edit existing editors, search, etc. |
| 22:14 | ashimema | i've also got a rotating collections (of european style) under development.. but that won't be ready for a while... |
| 22:14 | gmcharlt | it edits editors? wow! ;) |
| 22:14 | ashimema | it's more thought than code at the mo. |
| 22:15 | i'll poke gmcharlt | |
| 22:15 | pianohacker | oh dangit |
| 22:15 | *edit existing gmcharlts | |
| 22:15 | cait | pianohacker: waht i wondered - is rancor next to the existing interface for now or trying to replace? |
| 22:15 | gmcharlt | pianohacker: permission denied |
| 22:15 | ;) | |
| 22:15 | bag | pianohacker: you are editing gmcharlt |
| 22:16 | pianohacker | sudo rancor gmcharlt |
| 22:16 | gmcharlt | pianohacker: the functions you've outlined (save to catalog, edit exiting records, and seach) sound plenty for a first cut |
| 22:16 | ashimema | not 100% sure how current this is.. but colins ILL branch is at: https://github.com/colinsc/koha/tree/ill_wip |
| 22:16 | pianohacker | cait: Stay next to; the old editor is intended to stay around as a basic editor |
| 22:16 | gmcharlt | I *really* want something out there for folks to be actively testing outside of your demo environemtn |
| 22:16 | cait | pianohacker: glad to hear that :) |
| 22:16 | ashimema | it's been on hold for a few months with other priorities taking hold |
| 22:16 | cait | we have small libraries not used to marc21 |
| 22:17 | bag | cool pianohacker submit some basics :) |
| 22:17 | pianohacker | Yes, definitely. I'm working on polishing up the fixed field stuff a bit then I'll send it out |
| 22:17 | bag | before marseille hackfest? |
| 22:17 | cait | if it is next to existing, it could maybe be experimental |
| 22:17 | and if it's not messing up data :) | |
| 22:18 | bag | yes don't submit anything that messes up data |
| 22:18 | :) | |
| 22:18 | cait | :) |
| 22:18 | pianohacker | yes, either this week or early next week |
| 22:18 | bag | thanks :) |
| 22:18 | gmcharlt | great |
| 22:19 | OK | |
| 22:19 | pianohacker | And it _should_ round trip cleanly, doesn't try to do anything fancy with whitespace or anything like that, and should be UTF-8 clean; are there any other likely issues? |
| 22:19 | gmcharlt | pianohacker: eh, making sure it doesn't trim leading/trailing whitespace unexpectedly |
| 22:19 | cait | pianohacker: translations? *hides* |
| 22:19 | gmcharlt | e.g., from the fixed fields and the 010$a |
| 22:19 | ah, yes - i18n | |
| 22:19 | bag | cait let's talk about that and work on that at the hackfest |
| 22:19 | pianohacker | gmcharlt: Yup, the LCCN was one of my concerns |
| 22:20 | cait: I'm working hard to make it translatable, don't worry :) | |
| 22:20 | gmcharlt | #topic Next meeting |
| 22:20 | Topic for #koha is now Next meeting (Meeting topic: Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC) | |
| 22:20 | bag | cait everything I've seen so far - isn't bad for translations |
| 22:20 | gmcharlt | tenatively, a follow-up meeting has been agreed to |
| 22:20 | two-part like today, at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 | |
| 22:20 | +1/-1 ? | |
| 22:20 | wahanui | -1 |
| 22:21 | wajasu | we also mentioned in prior meeting for ICU to maybe be the default for zebra. |
| 22:21 | gmcharlt | right |
| 22:21 | rangi | +1 |
| 22:22 | pianohacker | +1 |
| 22:22 | cait | +1 # does it count again? |
| 22:22 | eythian_ | +1 |
| 22:22 | gmcharlt | cait: stop stuffing the ballot box ;) |
| 22:22 | cait | sorry....:) |
| 22:22 | gmcharlt | but seriously |
| 22:22 | #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting) | |
| 22:23 | bag | +1 and good timing - during the hackfest |
| 22:23 | gmcharlt | er |
| 22:23 | #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (achivement unlocked: confirmation!) | |
| 22:23 | #endmeeting | |
| 22:23 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha - this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org. Koha 3.14.3 is the latest release! The next general IRC meeting is on 5 March 2014 18:00 UTC. | |
| 22:23 | huginn` | Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:23:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 22:23 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-25-21.01.html | |
| 22:23 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]4-02-25-21.01.txt | |
| 22:23 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]25-21.01.log.html | |
| 22:24 | cait | thx gmcharlt :) |
| 22:24 | bag | larryb: you still here |
| 22:24 | larryb | I am |
| 22:24 | bag | let's grab eythian_ and gmcharlt while they are still listening |
| 22:24 | and rangi | |
| 22:24 | yes yes and the rest of you all too :) | |
| 22:24 | heh | |
| 22:24 | * eythian_ | can't stay too long, I need to go to work soon, but I can be here for a few minutes or so. |
| 22:24 | larryb | it was suggested earlier that we use ionice on the rebuild_zebra cron, do prevent the disk IO freeze-up |
| 22:25 | I've already tried that, using ionice -c 2 -n 7 -t | |
| 22:25 | wajasu | if you index on a filesystem separate from others, you might look at changing some async, noatime, etc options. |
| 22:25 | larryb | unfortunately it didn't help |
| 22:25 | gmcharlt | larryb: to clarify, it didn't help in that other processes were visibily blocked? |
| 22:26 | larryb | using ionice on the rebuild did not help, the system still froze up |
| 22:26 | eythian_ | larryb: wouldn't -c 3 be better? |
| 22:26 | larryb | that's why I posted the settings I used. |
| 22:26 | to see if there were any suggestions for altering them | |
| 22:26 | gmcharlt | yeah, definitely trice -c 3 |
| 22:26 | larryb | I wasn't sure I wanted to go all the way to -c |
| 22:27 | gmcharlt | *try |
| 22:27 | eythian_ | though it would slow down rebuilding |
| 22:27 | larryb | yeah, but we already use flock on it, so we don't have a problem with stacking rebuilds |
| 22:27 | * mtompset | waves bye. |
| 22:28 | larryb | for some sites we've gone as far as to turn rebuilding the in the afternoon, so a slower rebuild, if it doesn't freeze up the system, would be an improvement |
| 22:28 | mtompset | Have a great day, #koha. :) |
| 22:28 | eythian_ | you could also try nicing the rebuild process a bit. |
| 22:28 | larryb | edit "turn rebuilding off in the afternoon" |
| 22:29 | maximep left #koha | |
| 22:29 | larryb | I can test ionice with -c 3 and see how much longer it takes for the same number of updates |
| 22:30 | eythian_ would nicing rebuild really help much if we're already ionicing it? | |
| 22:30 | eythian_ | it might, it might not, I don't really know :) |
| 22:30 | larryb | the problem doesn't seem to be the priority of the *process*, but just the disk IO |
| 22:31 | wajasu | another option may be cgroups, if that is on your debian. http://www.janoszen.com/2013/0[…]groups-explained/ |
| 22:31 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 22:31 | wajasu | http://fritshoogland.wordpress[…]ng-io-with-linux/ |
| 22:31 | larryb | I'll check those out. thanks wajasu |
| 22:32 | * eythian_ | has to go now, I'll be back on in ~30 minutes or so. |
| 22:34 | thd` | rangi: Are you still here? |
| 22:35 | rangi | yep, working on ncip |
| 22:35 | thd` | gmcharlt had requested a topic focus so I had not continued earlier ... |
| 22:36 | rangi: You had mention Koha's unusual use of a persistent connection with Zebra. | |
| 22:37 | The degree of persistence may certainly be unusual but one can err in the other direction. | |
| 22:38 | larryb left #koha | |
| 22:38 | mtj | hey larryb , bag - re: the zebra disk problem, does moving zebra's /tmp dir to a ramdisk/ssd help things? |
| 22:39 | thd` | rangi: My guess about the reason which the BibLibre Simple Server implementation never worked for me is that it would drop the connection before I could complete all the aspects of my request and obtain a final result set. |
| 22:39 | mtj | i'm guessing the big IO is on the actual zebra index files, not any /tmp/* stuff |
| 22:39 | ashimema joined #koha | |
| 22:39 | bag | mtj: we haven't seen any problems with creating the /tmp files |
| 22:39 | ashimema | ack.. connection died.. meeting still going on? |
| 22:39 | bag | it's the actual merge of the .idx that causes the crazy I/O |
| 22:39 | ashimema: it's over brah | |
| 22:39 | mtj | yeah, ok… :/ |
| 22:39 | bag | sorry :) |
| 22:39 | ashimema | coolios. |
| 22:40 | bag | but mtj is here and he loves to talk :D |
| 22:40 | ashimema | i can go to bed then ;) |
| 22:40 | cait | night ashimema :) |
| 22:40 | ashimema | night cait.. |
| 22:40 | bag | night night ashimema |
| 22:40 | ashimema | lol.. night all |
| 22:41 | mtj | bag, i guess you might need to resort to LVM to 'manage' system IO better…? |
| 22:42 | bag | so mtj it's not so much of a problem for us - we just split zebra on a different disk - I'm just worried about the koha systems that can't afford to have two disks etc.... |
| 22:42 | mtj | which is a pretty big hassle for the average library :/ |
| 22:42 | yeah :/ | |
| 22:43 | bag | so this has to be known for all of us :D |
| 22:43 | mtj | i have bumped into problems with zebra-indexing locking up the system, under load |
| 22:44 | dcook joined #koha | |
| 22:44 | mtj | moving zebra to a new disk, fixed the problem nicely |
| 22:45 | using an SSD would sort that problem, even better | |
| 22:46 | so, $100 for a 100GB SSD disk = problem solved :) | |
| 22:46 | JesseM joined #koha | |
| 22:47 | * mtj | puts a positive spin on the problem :) |
| 22:47 | rhcl | bag: more specifically are you putting mysql on a separate disk and/or only zebra? |
| 22:47 | mtj | afaik only zebra ^^ |
| 22:49 | bag, i guess if you system is busy enough to have a 'problematic' merge load, you can afford the SSD disk :p | |
| 22:49 | amirite? | |
| 22:49 | wahanui | http://zork.net/~spork/amirite.pdf |
| 22:50 | * dcook | catches up on the logs |
| 22:50 | papa joined #koha | |
| 22:54 | mtj | i really thought ionice would have worked fine, on the zebra problem |
| 22:55 | rhcl | I wonder if it happens enough to be regarded as a class-action problem? |
| 22:58 | mtj | rhcl, curious, what is class-action? |
| 22:59 | Dyrcona joined #koha | |
| 22:59 | rhcl | ah, derrivation of US legal term meaning "broad problem" |
| 22:59 | I abused the term a bit | |
| 23:06 | eythian | hi |
| 23:06 | wahanui | que tal, eythian |
| 23:07 | eythian | seen tcohen |
| 23:07 | wahanui | tcohen was last seen on #koha 5 hours, 5 minutes and 11 seconds ago, saying: bye #koha [Tue Feb 25 18:02:08 2014] |
| 23:07 | eythian | @later tell tcohen I can take a look, though I can't promise I'll be useful :) where do I find it? |
| 23:07 | huginn` | eythian: The operation succeeded. |
| 23:16 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 23:16 | cait left #koha | |
| 23:46 | dcook | hehe |
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