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| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:04 | jcamins | The bruschetta was inspired. |
| 00:08 | If I say so myself. Which I find I must. | |
| 00:09 | hankbank joined #koha | |
| 02:41 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 02:41 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 02:46 | dcook joined #koha | |
| 02:49 | mtompset | Greetings, dcook. |
| 02:49 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 02:49 | mtompset | My brain's less exploded now, dcook. Solved part of my problems today. :) |
| 02:50 | dcook | hey mtompset |
| 02:50 | wahanui | mtompset is probably disliking finding bugs while testing. |
| 02:50 | mtompset | YAY for reading code, and the patience to "*tweak* refresh *look at logs* *tweak* refresh *look at logs* *repeat many many times*" |
| 02:50 | dcook | Mmm, no doubt, eh? |
| 02:51 | * dcook | doesn't remember why his brain was exploding yesterday. |
| 02:51 | dcook | Oh wait, now I remember. Hmm, I'll just pretend to block it out. |
| 02:51 | mtompset | As long as you picked up all the pieces, no problem. ;) |
| 02:54 | dcook | Mmm, it might just explode again though |
| 02:57 | Trying to figure out why Koha is double-encoding some URLs... | |
| 02:58 | Admittedly, it's for a local customization so not really a big issue.. | |
| 03:01 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 03:11 | mtj_ | dcook, i remember the 1st few times i bumped into double-encoding bugs… it was tricky :/ |
| 03:12 | dcook | Yeah, I'm not sure where the double encoding is happening exactly, although I could try to unencode the data at one part so the double encoding doesn't happen |
| 03:12 | But then that just reveals more bugs with this particular code... | |
| 03:14 | mtj_ | yeah, it can be difficult to work out where the naughty code is |
| 03:15 | dcook | Oh, I think it's all pretty naughty in this case :p |
| 03:15 | But aside from re-writing it... | |
| 03:17 | rangi | rewrite? |
| 03:17 | wahanui | hmmm... rewrite is different |
| 03:18 | rangi | rewrite? |
| 03:18 | wahanui | rewrite is http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz[…]no-not-like-that/ |
| 03:18 | rangi | :) |
| 03:18 | mtj_ | dcook, try and add warns on the string, at various stages - see if you can spot the glitchy transform |
| 03:18 | (thats how i'd approach it) | |
| 03:19 | heya rangi :) | |
| 03:19 | rangi | heya mtj_ |
| 03:21 | dcook | Good call, rangi |
| 03:21 | In this case...I know what it's doing and it isn't doing it very well :p | |
| 03:21 | Well, aside from the double encoding | |
| 03:22 | mtj_, it seems to me that data that is hex encoded is encoded again when passed as form data | |
| 03:24 | I like the idea of writing tests before writing code though, or writing tests while writing the code | |
| 03:24 | When I was writing the unit test for the OAI-PMH harvester, I noticed that X would be good and Y should be better, so I fixed the code and made it so that the test would validate in a meaningful way | |
| 03:24 | That said, I'm sure the code could be better | |
| 03:25 | rangi | yep |
| 03:25 | it is a much better way of doing it | |
| 03:26 | dcook | As for the double encoding...I think maybe the browser is doing the double encoding... |
| 03:29 | * dcook | reads some Perl docs |
| 03:35 | mtj_ | i've found that writing tests can be very revealing about your code |
| 03:36 | ...often around the cumbersomeness of an api, that could be improved | |
| 03:45 | dcook, also look a some Koha code that does something similar to yours | |
| 03:46 | dcook | Mmm, I don't know if anything does do something similar |
| 03:46 | I think what I'm reading might be a shortcut.. | |
| 03:49 | "If you try to mix a URL query string with a form submitted with the GET method, the results will not be what you expect." | |
| 03:49 | True that... | |
| 03:50 | The URL says %2520 (double encoded space) | |
| 03:50 | While the data retrieved using param() says %20 | |
| 03:50 | Which is right.. | |
| 03:50 | This code is using the URL query string rather than the param() values though.. | |
| 03:51 | I figure it should use param() instead, but I'm curious as to why it's double encoding in any case.. | |
| 03:52 | "You can also retrieve the unprocessed query string with query_string():" That doesn't seem to be the case though as that prints out %20 as well.. | |
| 03:56 | Wait.. | |
| 03:56 | query_string() does print out %2520 | |
| 03:56 | It's...url_param() that prints out %20.. | |
| 03:57 | I guess %20 might just be %2520 unencoded | |
| 03:57 | That would make sense.. | |
| 03:57 | Maybe | |
| 04:03 | Yeah, it's defo the browser that is double encoding it.. | |
| 04:11 | Now that I think about it...this was all dreadfully obvious :p | |
| 04:11 | Of course HTML forms would automatically be urlencoded... | |
| 04:11 | Hence double encoded | |
| 04:18 | drnoe joined #koha | |
| 04:23 | mtj_ | yeah, makes sense to me too |
| 04:25 | dcook | I suppose they're using the query string rather than the form data so that they don't have to guess what's coming through.. |
| 04:25 | * dcook | shrug |
| 04:25 | dcook | Double encoding illuminated and problem bandaided for now. Any rewrites to that aren't happening today. |
| 04:41 | Kohacon in a month! | |
| 04:45 | mtompset | Have a great day, #koha. |
| 04:45 | * mtompset | waves bye to dcook mtj_/mtj etc. |
| 04:48 | dcook | Gotta love how things like "article" or "chapter" don't wind up in MARC, but the 008 will tell you if the item is a "Surveys of literature in a subject area" |
| 04:48 | But of course. Distinguish a filmography from a bibliography, but not a book from an article. | |
| 04:49 | Autobiography v. Individual biography v. collective biography... | |
| 05:17 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 05:33 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:34 | cait | good morning #koha |
| 05:35 | eythian | hi cait |
| 05:35 | cait | morning eythian :) |
| 05:39 | pug joined #koha | |
| 05:39 | pug left #koha | |
| 05:41 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 05:51 | laurence joined #koha | |
| 06:11 | kivilahtio joined #koha | |
| 06:21 | dcook | All the browser tabs! |
| 06:23 | cait | hi dcook |
| 06:23 | dcook | hey cait :) |
| 06:25 | cait | dcook: there are things for articles |
| 06:26 | serial component part and monographic component part | |
| 06:26 | ... in the LDR I think | |
| 06:26 | dcook | Yeah, but that doesn't differentiate between an article and a book chapter |
| 06:26 | cait | it does |
| 06:26 | dcook | Which would both be a monographic component part |
| 06:26 | cait | chapter is monographic component part |
| 06:26 | and article is serial i'd think | |
| 06:26 | dcook | Nopes |
| 06:26 | "Examples of monographic component parts with corresponding host items include an article in a single issue of a periodical, a chapter in a book, a band on a phonodisc, and a map on a single sheet that contains several maps." | |
| 06:26 | "Example of a serial component part with corresponding host item is a regularly appearing column or feature in a periodical." | |
| 06:27 | cait | oh meh. |
| 06:27 | dcook | Yeah... |
| 06:27 | cait | well we are going to use it like serial/monographic |
| 06:27 | . | |
| 06:27 | dcook | Hmm |
| 06:27 | I suppose that's one way to do it, eh? | |
| 06:27 | Just make the choice at the local level | |
| 06:28 | I was just thinking in regards to the RIS export | |
| 06:28 | As it exports everything with a leader position 6 "a" as "Book" | |
| 06:29 | Or rather "BOOK" | |
| 06:29 | Rather than "JOUR" or "CHAP" | |
| 06:32 | cait | hm |
| 06:32 | how does the unapi code do it? | |
| 06:32 | if it does it at all? | |
| 06:35 | dcook | Mmm. Not sure. I've never looked at unapi. |
| 06:36 | cait | @wunder Konstanz |
| 06:36 | huginn` | cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 10.3°C (8:35 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). |
| 06:37 | dcook | @wunder sydney, australia |
| 06:37 | huginn` | dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 24.0°C (4:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008 hPa (Steady). |
| 06:37 | dcook | Hmm, not too bad.. |
| 06:38 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 06:38 | reiveune | hello |
| 06:39 | chris_n joined #koha | |
| 06:39 | dcook | hey ya reiveune |
| 06:40 | reiveune | salut dcook rangi cait |
| 06:41 | cait | hi reiveune :) |
| 06:42 | bbl | |
| 06:45 | alex_a joined #koha | |
| 06:45 | alex_a | bonjour |
| 06:50 | dcook | salut alex_a |
| 06:51 | alex_a | salut dcook |
| 06:56 | kivilahtio | Good morning Koha! Is there any place where I could take a broad overview about Koha features? |
| 07:03 | dcook | Hey kivilahtio |
| 07:03 | wahanui | kivilahtio is running 3.4 |
| 07:03 | lds joined #koha | |
| 07:04 | dcook | 3.4? Time for an upgrade! |
| 07:04 | kivilahtio | really? |
| 07:04 | wahanui | really is off now |
| 07:04 | kivilahtio | i just installed 3.12 |
| 07:04 | dcook | I suppose the best broad overview would be the manual |
| 07:04 | kivilahtio | its huge |
| 07:04 | dcook | Yep |
| 07:04 | kivilahtio | i sent an email to the mailing list about our need to re-evaluate our stance on Evergreen |
| 07:04 | dcook | There are a lot of features ;) |
| 07:05 | Our stance? | |
| 07:05 | kivilahtio | we have been working 36 man months on Evergreen and our progress is really slow |
| 07:05 | and in 18 months Koha has advnaced a lot | |
| 07:05 | :D | |
| 07:05 | dcook | Mmm |
| 07:05 | True true | |
| 07:05 | kivilahtio | this makes me wonder if the Koha we investigated 18 months ago is the same Koha as 3.12 |
| 07:05 | dcook | 18 months ago.. |
| 07:05 | * dcook | ponders |
| 07:06 | dcook | It would've been drastically different I imagine |
| 07:06 | kivilahtio | atleast installing was easy |
| 07:06 | dcook | Releases are 6 months apart so that would've been... |
| 07:06 | kivilahtio | tho accessing the intranet from another machine seems hard ;) |
| 07:06 | dcook | 3.14 is coming out in November I think.. |
| 07:06 | Accessing the intranet from another machine? | |
| 07:06 | kivilahtio | actualyl I was hoping for someone to help us get up to speed |
| 07:07 | dcook | I imagine you evaluated 3.8? Maybe even 3.6? |
| 07:07 | kivilahtio | we are around 6 months from going live, with some system |
| 07:07 | 3.4 | |
| 07:07 | 3.2 | |
| 07:07 | dcook | Yeah, that was quite a long time ago |
| 07:07 | kivilahtio | and our evaluation was a tie |
| 07:07 | 50/50 Eg vs Koha | |
| 07:07 | dcook | Intriguing |
| 07:07 | Most evaluations I've heard, even back then, tended to favour Koha | |
| 07:07 | kivilahtio | we chose Eg because it had better merits in large Consortias |
| 07:07 | dcook | Yeah, I hear it scales well |
| 07:07 | * dcook | has yet to install it |
| 07:08 | kivilahtio | even if it was clear that it was technically more difficult |
| 07:08 | dcook: not true IMHO | |
| 07:08 | database is the bottle neck | |
| 07:08 | and it scaled with normal db replication techniques | |
| 07:08 | like with Koha | |
| 07:08 | so presonally I don't see the scaling benefit | |
| 07:08 | dcook | Mmm, fair enough |
| 07:08 | <--- librarian turned developer rather than straight up CS/IT person | |
| 07:09 | kivilahtio | the method for scaling is the same with Koha as Evergreen |
| 07:09 | dcook | To be honest, I work with Koha every day, and I'm not even up to speed with where 3.12 is at |
| 07:09 | kivilahtio | tho Eg has the benfit of running for ex. the Reporting on a separate machine |
| 07:09 | magnuse | kia ora #koha |
| 07:09 | dcook | hey ya magnuse |
| 07:09 | kivilahtio | still accesssing the same database |
| 07:10 | magnuse | hm, where's kf when you need her... ;-) |
| 07:10 | kivilahtio | kia ora magnuse |
| 07:10 | dcook | In transit? ;) |
| 07:10 | * dcook | is wondering why he's still at work |
| 07:10 | * magnuse | grumbles |
| 07:10 | kivilahtio | also we have a requirements specification that needs to be evalued by a koha professional |
| 07:10 | magnuse | anyone know what reserves.constrainttype does? |
| 07:11 | dcook | kivilahtio: magnuse is probably the nearest to you geographically. Perhaps he's a good person to ask. |
| 07:11 | Mmm...not off the top of my head, magnuse | |
| 07:11 | magnuse | or the reserveconstraints table? |
| 07:11 | kivilahtio | yeah, we had a chat with magnuse back then |
| 07:12 | magnuse | hyyve kivilahtio (or something similar) |
| 07:12 | kivilahtio | magnuse: Is your schedule full? |
| 07:12 | hyvää päiää Magnus | |
| 07:12 | magnuse | this week is filled to bursting and beyond |
| 07:12 | kivilahtio | hyvää päviää Magnus |
| 07:12 | hyvää päivää Magnus | |
| 07:12 | dcook | O_o |
| 07:12 | magnuse | :-) |
| 07:12 | kivilahtio | magnuse: I was afraid of that |
| 07:13 | ILS people seem to have their schedules full | |
| 07:13 | dcook | magnuse: Have you checked the kohastructure.sql? Maybe there are some comments there |
| 07:13 | kivilahtio: So true | |
| 07:13 | More than enough work to keep us busy until oblivion | |
| 07:13 | Right now doesn't count for me since I should be going home | |
| 07:14 | kivilahtio | yup |
| 07:14 | well thanks for chatting | |
| 07:16 | magnuse | kivilahtio: what would you need me for? |
| 07:16 | kivilahtio | magnuse: requirements analysis |
| 07:16 | magnuse: staff training | |
| 07:17 | magnuse: programmer training | |
| 07:17 | magnuse | dcook: yeah, i look at schema.k-c.org |
| 07:17 | kivilahtio | magnuse: Primarily we need our requirement re-evalued, and fast |
| 07:17 | magnuse | kivilahtio: sounds interesting! but time is a problem, i'm afraid |
| 07:18 | kivilahtio | magnuse: If we find Koha to be superior to Evergreen, we can still change our direction |
| 07:18 | SE joined #koha | |
| 07:18 | dcook | kivilahtio: You'd probably be best off contacting many vendors |
| 07:18 | magnuse | yeah |
| 07:18 | dcook | I think the software.coop in the UK might be another good option |
| 07:18 | kivilahtio | magnuse: I think we could have a webinar? And we ask many manby questions from you |
| 07:18 | dcook | Maybe BibLibre. I assume they offer services in English and French. |
| 07:19 | magnuse | they do |
| 07:19 | kivilahtio: that could work | |
| 07:19 | dcook | kivilahtio: I think rangi is giving a webinar for an organization later this month |
| 07:19 | magnuse | but i'm sorry i have to run |
| 07:19 | kivilahtio | magnuse: and I mean a lot of questions, ranging from all ILL modules to localization data migratin, development |
| 07:19 | magnuse | kivilahtio: could you send me an email describing what you need? i can see if i can fit it in |
| 07:20 | have fun! | |
| 07:20 | SE | Can anyone tell me what is aqorders o and aqorders a? I m not a programmer but I need to write KOHA SQL report. I don't know which one to put |
| 07:20 | kivilahtio | magnuse: sure, I think the webinar shouldnt be too long, like 4h |
| 07:21 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 07:24 | dcook | SE: That letter is just an alias. |
| 07:25 | It lets you refer to the table by the letter rather than the column name | |
| 07:25 | salut paul_p | |
| 07:25 | So either, neither, whatever fits with the rest of the sql query | |
| 07:27 | rangi | kivilahtio: its for eifl-floss so not really aimed at you |
| 07:28 | paul_p | bonjour #koha |
| 07:28 | rangi | there is of course kohacon13 |
| 07:28 | dcook | ^^ |
| 07:33 | rangi | hiya paul_p |
| 07:33 | kivilahtio | hi rangi! |
| 07:34 | paul_p | hiya rangi. Will send you my history presentation today, with some changes I'd like to do, and/or, some comments on some slides, TBD |
| 07:34 | rangi | awesome thanks paul_p |
| 07:34 | kivilahtio | We just were in Vancouver for the Eg 2014 :) |
| 07:34 | but yeah I noticed that | |
| 07:34 | rangi | kivilahtio: the sessions are being filmed |
| 07:34 | kivilahtio | I think it was Eg 2013 in Vancouver not 2014 |
| 07:35 | rangi | but the hackfest would be the best place to get a real feel for it |
| 07:36 | however http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]KohaCon13_Program | |
| 07:36 | kivilahtio | rangi: Any idea who could host a webinar for us. We have a pretty solid understanding of what requirements we have for a ILS and would like to talk with someone or someones who have a deep understanding of Koha both techincally and from the librarians perspective. |
| 07:36 | rangi | watching a bunch of these will probably give you a really good feel |
| 07:36 | id vote for magnus | |
| 07:37 | kivilahtio | hm |
| 07:37 | rangi | same timezone makes things a lot easier |
| 07:37 | kivilahtio | well magnus has always been a charmer :) |
| 07:38 | rangi | he also has a really good understanding of what koha can and cant do |
| 07:38 | kivilahtio | timezone is not that much of an issue for us, we have been ok with the Evergreen community time-zone-wise |
| 07:38 | rangi | yep, they are still closer to your time than i am :) |
| 07:39 | kivilahtio | wow, I like the global koha-community -aspect :) |
| 07:39 | * dcook | doesn't remember consenting to being filmed :p |
| 07:40 | rangi | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]ter/activity.html <-- we cover every hour of the day |
| 07:41 | kivilahtio | what was one thing that pushed us to Evergreen was performance. Back then Koha was under some bad rap about managing large installations, especially regarding serials |
| 07:42 | I think the main point with Evergreen for us is the proven performance and ability to set very specific circulation, permission, fine settings for each library | |
| 07:43 | not that having a varied parametrizations makes any sense, not the least for our patrons | |
| 07:43 | rangi | dcook: just do do some interpretive dance |
| 07:45 | you can do that with Koha | |
| 07:45 | (the fine, circ ones anyone) | |
| 07:45 | if you have independentbranches the permissions too | |
| 07:45 | kivilahtio | rangi: we need to re-evaluate those es well :) |
| 07:46 | rangi | you can also do tricks like use mysql replication |
| 07:46 | kivilahtio | rangi: also we had some issues about library hierarchy, like we have libraries with different departments. Main library has musics-, serials, childrens- and adult departments under the main branch |
| 07:46 | rangi | and run the reports against the slave db |
| 07:47 | kivilahtio | rangi: yeah, I was rather dismayed when I realized that those were the primary use cases in the Evergreen community |
| 07:47 | rangi | ie, with the debian packages it simple to run up as many koha instances as you like |
| 07:47 | they can use the same db, or different ones | |
| 07:48 | kivilahtio | rangi: well we are planning to run one instance |
| 07:48 | rangi | i would run 2 |
| 07:48 | kivilahtio | rangi: I mean if I understand the benefit of it |
| 07:48 | rangi | you can do tricks like |
| 07:48 | for the opac, when you aren't logged in | |
| 07:48 | kivilahtio | rangi: We are planning to have a library consortium to service 3 municipalities |
| 07:48 | rangi | you use the instance that hits the slave db |
| 07:49 | ie 99% of the OPAC usage is rads | |
| 07:49 | reads | |
| 07:49 | once you login, you hit the koha that does writes | |
| 07:49 | (nginx in front and people cant even tell the difference) | |
| 07:49 | kivilahtio | rangi: but you can achieve this using multiple web server |
| 07:50 | rangi: have a public server, intranet server, master mysql server and hot-spare mysql | |
| 07:50 | rangi | nope |
| 07:50 | thats not the same | |
| 07:50 | kivilahtio | rangi: nut sure if you have database load balancing solution in mysql like pgpool-II in postgresql |
| 07:50 | rangi | there are mysqlcluster |
| 07:50 | kivilahtio | rangi: all the koha instances run on the same hardware |
| 07:52 | rangi | but yep, any techniques you use to scale a website, you can use with koha |
| 07:52 | because its all just a website | |
| 07:53 | kivilahtio | rangi: yeah |
| 07:53 | rangi: how about hardware? Do you have any established hardware requirements? | |
| 07:53 | rangi | nope |
| 07:53 | its a bit of a how long is a piece of string | |
| 07:54 | my rule of thumb, get as much ram as you can afford and as fast a disk as you can afford | |
| 07:54 | kivilahtio | rangi: we were aiming for 128GB and SSD's |
| 07:54 | rangi | if you have to choose between fast cpu and fast ram/disk choose ram/disk |
| 07:55 | kivilahtio | rangi: so what are the performance bottlenecks? |
| 07:55 | rangi | I/O |
| 07:55 | kivilahtio | rangi: clearly string operations :) |
| 07:55 | rangi: do you mean high I/O for the server? | |
| 07:55 | rangi | if you have slow disk, your zebra indexing will be slow |
| 07:55 | kivilahtio | rangi: do you mean high I/O for the mysql server? |
| 07:55 | kf joined #koha | |
| 07:55 | rangi | and that will mean your search will be slow |
| 07:55 | kf | hi rangi |
| 07:55 | hi all | |
| 07:55 | rangi | hi kf |
| 07:55 | kivilahtio | hi kf! |
| 07:56 | kf | hi kivilahtio |
| 07:56 | was just reading your email to the mailing list | |
| 07:56 | rangi | kivilahtio: the mysql server shouldnt do too much I/O if you have enough RAM |
| 07:56 | kivilahtio | kf: just thinking about Koha |
| 07:56 | rangi: yeah, was planning to run it from RAM | |
| 07:56 | rangi | kivilahtio: but the zebra indexing writes out the records to disk, as marcxml and adds them to the index |
| 07:57 | kivilahtio | rangi: ah |
| 07:57 | rangi | so if you put that partition as ramdisk |
| 07:57 | that is a big win | |
| 07:57 | kivilahtio | rangi: ok |
| 07:57 | rangi | you want the actual indexes on disk tho |
| 07:57 | cos else a reboot would be a mess :) | |
| 07:57 | but the /tmp as ram is a good win | |
| 07:57 | dcook | rangi: I'm not much of a dancer either :p |
| 07:58 | kivilahtio | rangi: can you give us any numbers? Like how much RAM is needed for 400 000 bibliographics records and 1 000 000 items= |
| 07:58 | rangi: or do you have any hardware numbers i could correlate from? | |
| 07:58 | bibs vs ram, circulation/year vs cpu... | |
| 07:58 | rangi | circ really doesnt work the cpu much at all |
| 07:59 | nothign koha does is cpu bound to any real extent | |
| 07:59 | kivilahtio | rangi: good to hear |
| 07:59 | rangi | we aren't rendering things |
| 07:59 | id go for at least 32 | |
| 07:59 | kivilahtio | rangi: well you get load from your patrons. Lots of simultaneous searches |
| 07:59 | rangi | but like i say, the more you can put in, the more apache threads you can have |
| 08:00 | id definitely put nginx and/or varnish out in front of the apache too | |
| 08:00 | to deal with all the static content | |
| 08:00 | kivilahtio | 128 is pretty good for bang vs buck i think |
| 08:00 | rangi | because they both do it a zillion times faster than apache can |
| 08:00 | yep | |
| 08:00 | kivilahtio | nginx might be the thing, since we are looking into more HA solution |
| 08:01 | rangi: so how large is your library? | |
| 08:01 | rangi: I think I already slipped our numbers | |
| 08:01 | rangi | i dont work in a library |
| 08:01 | i work for http://catalyst.net.nz/ | |
| 08:02 | kivilahtio | rangi: cool :) |
| 08:02 | kf | :) |
| 08:02 | * kf | is in Germany - working for http://www.bsz-bw.de |
| 08:03 | kivilahtio | kf: I still remeber some german words so I can pull a catalog search atleast |
| 08:04 | guten Morgen kf! | |
| 08:04 | wow kf, yous searches are super fast | |
| 08:05 | kf | ah, you are looking at the union catalog I think? |
| 08:06 | kivilahtio | SWB-online Katalog |
| 08:06 | dcook | I think kf has the most beautiful catalog, iirc |
| 08:06 | err catalogue even | |
| 08:06 | kf | yep, that's our union catalog, we are a library service center |
| 08:06 | kivilahtio | kf: Do you have any opinions about performance? |
| 08:06 | kf | so offering different library related services |
| 08:06 | kivilahtio | kf: Do you have any opinions about hardware? |
| 08:07 | kf | not really - I am not taking care of the hardware and our installations are not as big |
| 08:07 | rangi | kivilahtio: id talk to tcohen if you see him |
| 08:07 | kivilahtio | understood |
| 08:07 | what does tcohen do? | |
| 08:08 | kf | tcohen? |
| 08:08 | wahanui | tcohen is obsessed with packages' scripts |
| 08:08 | kivilahtio | ofc I could just dig up my old migration scripts and push our data to Koha ;) |
| 08:08 | kf | heh, not quite what i was looking for |
| 08:09 | tcohen has a lot of koha instances to take care of | |
| 08:09 | rangi | and some biggish ones |
| 08:09 | kivilahtio | rangi: kf: Hmm, could I email him? |
| 08:10 | kf | kivilahtio: he is normally around a little later |
| 08:10 | he is located in argentina | |
| 08:10 | kivilahtio | ok |
| 08:11 | letäs hope he pops up | |
| 08:13 | drojf joined #koha | |
| 08:13 | drojf | good morning #koha |
| 08:13 | @wunder berlin, germany | |
| 08:13 | huginn` | drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 13.9°C (10:12 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:13 | drojf | brr |
| 08:14 | kf | @wunder Konstanz |
| 08:14 | huginn` | kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 12.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Rising). |
| 08:14 | kf | BRRR! |
| 08:14 | rangi | kivilahtio: http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]rary.pl?RC=147552 |
| 08:14 | you could talk to paul_p about that one | |
| 08:14 | kf | good morning drojf |
| 08:15 | rangi | http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]brary.pl?RC=13654 |
| 08:15 | kivilahtio | @wunder Joensuu |
| 08:15 | huginn` | kivilahtio: The current temperature in Joensuu, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:15 | rangi | or someone from bywater abbout that |
| 08:16 | @wunder nzwn | |
| 08:16 | paul_p | kivilahtio you need me ? |
| 08:16 | huginn` | rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:16 | paul_p | @wunder Marseille |
| 08:16 | huginn` | paul_p: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 19.0°C (10:00 AM CEST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). |
| 08:16 | paul_p | hehe... I beat all of you :D |
| 08:16 | drojf | unfair ^^ |
| 08:16 | dcook | @wunder sydney, australia |
| 08:16 | paul_p | ( fortunately, no one from Africa, india on the channel :D ) |
| 08:16 | huginn` | dcook: The current temperature in Sydney Airport, New South Wales is 21.0°C (6:00 PM EST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 6%. Dew Point: -8.0°C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1011 hPa (Rising). |
| 08:17 | kivilahtio | paul_p: I guess it depends whether or not you like winter |
| 08:17 | paul_p | kivilahtio good point. |
| 08:17 | kivilahtio | because I was a bit jealous of kg |
| 08:17 | because I was a bit jealous of kf | |
| 08:17 | paul_p | wow, dcook humidity 6% ! that's very very low ! |
| 08:18 | dcook | @wunder regina, saskatchewan |
| 08:18 | huginn` | dcook: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 08:18 | dcook | @wunder regina, canada |
| 08:18 | huginn` | dcook: Error: No such location could be found. |
| 08:18 | dcook | I'm sure I've done that one before.. |
| 08:19 | paul_p: Yep. It's been pretty dry here for a while. Let's hope it continues... | |
| 08:19 | paul_p | dcook = maybe there's been an earthquake here ? or a meteorite ? ;-) |
| 08:22 | kivilahtio | paul_p: I am not sure what you mean with "kivilahtio do you need me?" ? |
| 08:22 | paul_p | kivilahtio = rangi called me saying "maybe you could tak to paul_p about that one". |
| 08:23 | kivilahtio do you have a question about Limoges municipal network of Libraries ? | |
| 08:23 | kivilahtio | paul_p: sorry, I was lost in links |
| 08:23 | paul_p: we were talking about Koha performance under larger datasets | |
| 08:23 | Viktor joined #koha | |
| 08:23 | kivilahtio | paul_p: And I was curious about the hardware requirements and server architectures in use |
| 08:24 | dcook | paul_p: Regina is nowhere near a fault line but maybe a meteorite! Actually, I think I just got a message from my parents. It must just be a very small place. |
| 08:24 | @wunder yqr | |
| 08:24 | huginn` | dcook: The current temperature in Regina, Saskatchewan is 8.0°C (2:00 AM CST on September 11, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising). |
| 08:24 | dcook | Aha |
| 08:24 | 81% that can't be right... | |
| 08:24 | kivilahtio | paul_p: and looking at the link posted by rangi: http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]rary.pl?RC=147552. It looks like your installation is about the same size as ours |
| 08:25 | paul_p | kivilahtio yep, I've seen. Limoges is not our largest library. The largest one is AixMarseille university, 1.400.000 items, 47 libraries. They're running a 4 years old server, with 16GB ram, 2 4CPU processors, and RAID5 (or RAID10 ?) disks |
| 08:25 | kivilahtio | paul_p: really? 16GB ram? |
| 08:25 | paul_p | kivilahtio yep, really |
| 08:25 | kivilahtio | paul_p: I mean that's crazy low |
| 08:26 | paul_p: this search was FAST http://www.cooslibraries.org/s[…]rigarg=Xoperation | |
| 08:26 | paul_p | kivilahtio = the hint here being "4 years old servers". 4 years ago, it was not that low ;-) |
| 08:26 | kivilahtio | paul_p: agredd |
| 08:26 | paul_p: agreed | |
| 08:26 | paul_p: just our workstations have 16GB RAM :) | |
| 08:27 | paul_p: Evergreen hardware requirements are raelly large | |
| 08:27 | paul_p | kivilahtio = (just in case: I'm Paul Poulain, from France, founder of BibLibre, the largest french company supporting Koha. And retired Koha Release Manager) |
| 08:27 | kivilahtio = we host something like 50 different customers, and we host many on a single 16GB / 4CPU / SAS15k hard disks | |
| 08:28 | * dcook | is always curious about numbers of customers |
| 08:29 | kivilahtio | paul_p: Sorry for skipping introductions. I am Olli-Antti Kivilahti, from Finland. I was hired to compare OS ILS' for the Joensuu Regional Library and do data migration. Well after 2,5 years I am a project manager and wavering in my faith to migrate to Evergreen ILS |
| 08:29 | paul_p | kivilahtio well, most of them are *much* smaller than AixMarseille university, someof them are x00 000 items |
| 08:29 | dcook | 2.5 years? |
| 08:29 | kivilahtio | dcook: yeah |
| 08:29 | dcook | Holy... |
| 08:29 | kivilahtio | dcook: too long |
| 08:29 | dcook | Way too long |
| 08:29 | kivilahtio | dcook: I am fatigued :) |
| 08:29 | dcook | How big is Joensuu Regional Library? |
| 08:30 | paul_p | oh my god ! you mean you're working on this project since more than2.5 years ? incredible ! |
| 08:30 | kivilahtio | dcook: 60 000 patrons, 400 000 biblios, 1 000 000 itesm |
| 08:30 | dcook | I mean...how many physical branches? |
| 08:30 | * dcook | is thinking of this in terms of politics and staff interactions |
| 08:30 | paul_p | kivilahtio = that's roughly the same size as AixMarseille. |
| 08:30 | kivilahtio | paul_p: yes, alone for first 7 months, then with one librarian for 10 months, and now we hire one more techie, for 10 months |
| 08:30 | notsure if months add up | |
| 08:31 | we have ~20 bracnhes | |
| 08:31 | rangi | ahh nekls might be worth talking to too |
| 08:31 | kivilahtio | I can say I have learned a lot |
| 08:31 | rangi | wizzyrea: you around? |
| 08:31 | paul_p | kivilahtio you want my opinion = that would have been way cheaper to pay a company ! |
| 08:31 | rangi | they have 40ish branches |
| 08:31 | kivilahtio | not to mention I have had lots of experience fighting out M$-only IT support deprtment for every right to move |
| 08:32 | paul_p: well I agree | |
| 08:32 | dcook | Agreed with paul_p |
| 08:32 | kivilahtio | paul_p: way way more cheaper, but somehow all my enquiries have met deaf ears |
| 08:32 | maybe it is my charming character :D | |
| 08:32 | dcook | enquiries to whom? |
| 08:33 | kivilahtio | tho I became the project manager only 10 months ago |
| 08:33 | paul_p | kivilahtio = http://catalogue.univ-aix-mars[…]ha/opac-search.pl |
| 08:33 | kivilahtio | and been mostly associated with techincal challenges, which have been aplenty |
| 08:33 | dcook:various Evergreen vendors | |
| 08:33 | dcook | Ahhh |
| 08:33 | I thought you meant Koha vendors | |
| 08:33 | Silly me | |
| 08:34 | kivilahtio | we should have done our Requirements specification in Enlgish :D |
| 08:34 | dcook | Apparently we have a library with 900,000 biblios and 1,000,000 items |
| 08:34 | Only about 2000 patrons though | |
| 08:34 | kivilahtio: That probably would've helped :p | |
| 08:34 | paul_p | kivilahtio and frankly, with only 20 branches, I'm not sure you need evergeen feature (there are some things that EG do, not Koha, in circulation management AFAIK) |
| 08:34 | dcook | I'm not super famililar with Evergreen, but I think it's mostly developed in North America? |
| 08:34 | kivilahtio | paul_p: I posted an email to the Koha mailing list. We are looking for help in re-evaluating Koha |
| 08:34 | paul_p: and possible migration support | |
| 08:35 | paul_p | kivilahtio got it ! |
| 08:35 | kivilahtio | paul_p: we chose Evergreen for its consortial features and strong emphasis on individual library parametrization. |
| 08:36 | paul_p: but it seems that we are strongly trying to simplify our parameters in wake of your municipal library cooperation | |
| 08:36 | paul_p | kivilahtio = I know finland & norway are different, but do you know that there's a nice guy in norway providing Koha support ( magnus_away => ping !) |
| 08:36 | kivilahtio | paul_p: already emailing him ;) and we have chatted and I think me in some occasion years ago |
| 08:36 | drojf | dcook: that was my impression when we decided which system to use. rather us-centric |
| 08:36 | kivilahtio | we met few years ago |
| 08:36 | paul_p | kivilahtio IIRC, there's also a monestary in finland, using Koha (valamo ?) |
| 08:36 | kivilahtio | drojf: We have INSANE localization issues |
| 08:36 | drojf: we have been trying to get localizations to work for 8 months | |
| 08:37 | paul_p: so true | |
| 08:37 | drojf | kivilahtio: you should be happy with koha when it comes to localizations |
| 08:37 | kivilahtio | paul_p: and some smaller rural library |
| 08:37 | kf | kivilahtio: and it's getting better all the time - but mostly in a good place now :) |
| 08:37 | kivilahtio | drojf: I totally loved it. I feel like I achieved more in the 3 hours i spent installing Koha yesterday than in 3 months of Evergreen |
| 08:37 | drojf | kivilahtio: 8 months? woah |
| 08:37 | kf | in terms of localiation |
| 08:37 | localizations | |
| 08:37 | * paul_p | loves chab (my partner) last quote on our biblibre channel "a good support ticket is a dead support ticket" |
| 08:38 | kivilahtio | drojf: Yeah we hired a guy to do that localization, but the Evergreen community doesn't play very nice with us |
| 08:38 | kf | some tend to come back as zombies but ingeneral i agree |
| 08:38 | dcook | kivilahtio: Evergreen certainly looks intimidating. I keep meaning to install it someday down the road but Koha is pretty straightforward, especially using packages. |
| 08:38 | kivilahtio | drojf: I guess we are making slow progress that other devs actualyl would make localizable code |
| 08:38 | dcook | paul_p: lol |
| 08:38 | kf | hm bit bad that gmcharlt is not around, he knows both communities quite well |
| 08:38 | kivilahtio | kf: actualyl gmcharlt made a slight suggestion we might take a look at Koha ;) |
| 08:39 | dcook | He'd be the person who'd know |
| 08:39 | kivilahtio | kf: back then we decided to take the Evergreen route, but like I said our progress is so poor, we need to re-evaluate |
| 08:40 | paul_p | kivilahtio I agree, because not being successfull after 2.5years is just insane. |
| 08:40 | (not necessarly because of EG though) | |
| 08:40 | kivilahtio | paul_p: well. 2.5y is not exactly correct. I spent the first 6 months doing data migration to Eg and Koha |
| 08:41 | paul_p: then 8 man-months for requirements specification | |
| 08:41 | paul_p: on the hind-sight we should have outsourced the requirements evaluation | |
| 08:41 | paul_p: but such is life :) | |
| 08:41 | so we have been focusing on Eg for maybe 18 months, or 46 man-months | |
| 08:42 | it is raelly complex | |
| 08:42 | or we are realyl dumb :) | |
| 08:42 | i guess a bit both | |
| 08:43 | dcook | Outsourcing requirements evaluation? |
| 08:43 | kf | i think it takes a while to wrap your mind around an ILS |
| 08:43 | dcook | Eep |
| 08:43 | What kf said ^^ | |
| 08:44 | Requirements evaluation is a tough one especially in a consortium and with librarians (being a librarian, I'm allowed to say that :P). | |
| 08:44 | kivilahtio | dcook: yeah, we have a checklist of things we need and some process descriptions. Someone who know a system could go through our list of requirements and evaluate how well they match |
| 08:44 | dcook | Perhaps, although I'm skeptical of requirement documents sometimes... |
| 08:44 | kivilahtio | kf: Taht has been one of the many challenges |
| 08:45 | dcook | It's amazing how often a "requirement" is actually a preference or an outmoded practice. |
| 08:45 | But yeah...I think you'd be best off submitting your requirements list to some vendors (probably in English) | |
| 08:45 | magnuse in Norway, slef (?) in the UK, paul_p in France | |
| 08:45 | drojf | dcook: yes, people describing a certain way to do things (like they are used to do it) instead of the goal they want to achieve… |
| 08:46 | dcook | Exactly |
| 08:46 | paul_p | dcook (knowing that we've a business partnership with magnus, so at the end we would probably work hand-in-hand -frenchism suspected-) |
| 08:46 | dcook | I did requirements gathering for a Horizon to Millennium migration for a single branch once. It was...interesting. |
| 08:47 | kivilahtio | actually there is a national project in Finalnd, to make the ultimate techincal requirements specification for a ILS, they have 500 000€ funding for that |
| 08:47 | paul_p | drojf = ++ (hélas!) libraries describe how to do instead of which goal they want |
| 08:47 | dcook | Our branch had one of the nicest migrations of the entire system (306 branches of differing sizes) though, so that made me happy |
| 08:47 | kivilahtio | apaprently this requirements specification for a library has been a plague of the Finiish ILS scene for ever |
| 08:47 | dcook | paul_p: Ahh, I didn't know that. That's cool. No Frenchisms that I see either :) |
| 08:47 | kivilahtio | not that it has anything to do with my project |
| 08:48 | paul_p | dcook (hand-in-hand is a word to word translation. happy to know it's also english ;-) ) |
| 08:49 | kivilahtio | paul_p: So you suggest we work with Magnus to re-evaluate Koha, and arrange possible migration support and training? |
| 08:50 | paul_p | kivilahtio no, I just suggest to work with someone who know. That could be us (BibLibre), Magnus, or anyone else involved in the community. |
| 08:50 | kivilahtio in french, we say "better one who knows that 10 who search" | |
| 08:50 | kivilahtio | paul_p: Experience has taught me as much |
| 08:50 | :) | |
| 08:50 | dcook | paul_p: English probably stole it from French :p. main à main? |
| 08:51 | Or is that hand to hand... | |
| 08:51 | kivilahtio | :) |
| 08:51 | paul_p | dcook = main dans la main (dans = in) |
| 08:51 | dcook | I had the feeling that might be it.. |
| 08:51 | I screw up dans and à sometimes. | |
| 08:53 | I suppose dans is supposed to be more literal.. | |
| 08:53 | kivilahtio: I think requirements specifications are the plagues of ever ILS scene ;) | |
| 08:53 | kivilahtio | dcook: Seems to be impossible to make one. ILS is just such a huge entity |
| 08:53 | dcook | True true |
| 08:54 | And like you say...many libraries have different localizations which have been introduced over time | |
| 08:54 | kivilahtio | dcook: atleast for me it was rather mind boggling. But doable. I think process diagrams are the best tool |
| 08:54 | dcook | Yeah, I ended up using flowcharts in the end |
| 08:54 | kivilahtio | but categorizing different requirements to various modules is hard |
| 08:55 | dcook | Mapping existing processes and then outlining abstracted ideal ones (and perhaps even how it could in Millennium in some cases...) |
| 08:55 | Do you need to categorize them by module? | |
| 08:55 | kivilahtio | well, circluation |
| 08:55 | cataloguing, acquisitions, serials ... | |
| 08:56 | patrons | |
| 08:56 | dcook | Cataloguing as a concept might include cataloguing, acquisitions, authorities, and serials |
| 08:56 | Perhaps even circulation | |
| 08:56 | kivilahtio | dcook: we noticed |
| 08:56 | dcook | hehe |
| 08:56 | I think that's also somewhat problematic when you do the ILS evaluations | |
| 08:56 | kivilahtio | comparisons are hard |
| 08:57 | dcook | Agreed |
| 08:57 | I think features also go beyond modules | |
| 08:57 | kivilahtio | but process diagrams are best for that as well |
| 08:57 | dcook | That is...not all features are necessarily contained in a module per se |
| 08:57 | Well... | |
| 08:57 | For mapping existing processes probably | |
| 08:58 | Ah, perhaps I misread you | |
| 08:58 | kivilahtio | well we didnt do much process diagrams until we really had to. Our task of learning two library systems was huge and figure out their capabilites, so we just based evaluations on manual entries |
| 08:59 | otherwise there would have been no way of sticking to any budget or timeframe | |
| 08:59 | anyway | |
| 08:59 | off to wirte some RFP's | |
| 08:59 | dcook | Good luck kivilahtio :) |
| 09:00 | kivilahtio | here's hoping for Koha |
| 09:00 | ++ | |
| 09:01 | rangi | i have a good blogpost about rfp |
| 09:02 | http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz[…]ritten-responses/ | |
| 09:04 | gerundio joined #koha | |
| 09:10 | dcook | hehe |
| 09:10 | rangi++ | |
| 09:10 | I remember reading that one a while ago.. | |
| 09:12 | kivilahtio | Can anyone give me a tip about what kind of a library we could run with two servers specced at 128GB RAM, RAID-1 SSD's, 4x quad core 2.4Ghz. + nginx load balancer/web cache |
| 09:12 | drojf | kf: is the meeting 7 or 8 for us? |
| 09:12 | 128gb ram? :D | |
| 09:13 | kivilahtio | drojf: that's what we had in mind for Evergreen |
| 09:14 | drojf: two of those | |
| 09:14 | kf | drojf: i have noted 8 - hope it's right |
| 09:14 | kivilahtio | drojf: there is no kill like overkill! |
| 09:14 | kf | kivilahtio: based on what paul_p said... a big one?: ) |
| 09:14 | drojf | kivilahtio: i'd like to say you can run as much library as you wish with that kind of hardware, but that's just a guess :D |
| 09:15 | kf | i am really not good with hardware specs, i leave that to my coworkers :) |
| 09:15 | kivilahtio | I have a gut feeling we could run into software problems |
| 09:15 | drojf | meeting? |
| 09:15 | we should have a bot that knows such things | |
| 09:15 | irc meeting? | |
| 09:15 | kivilahtio | drojf: that would be cool |
| 09:15 | rangi | nat lib venezuala runs 7 million records |
| 09:15 | drojf | wahanui: bad bot, no cookies |
| 09:15 | wahanui | drojf: i'm not following you... |
| 09:16 | rangi | nekls is bigger than you guys, 40+ branches more records and items |
| 09:16 | on a much smaller server | |
| 09:16 | so i reckon you will be fine | |
| 09:16 | kf | and faster :) |
| 09:16 | kivilahtio | :D |
| 09:16 | hope so | |
| 09:18 | drojf | http://www.timeanddate.com/wor[…]g&iso=20130911T18 |
| 09:19 | kf: you were right :) | |
| 09:19 | dcook | kivilahtio: The New South Wales Parliament has more than double your bib record count on Koha as weell |
| 09:19 | well* | |
| 09:20 | I can't remember the exact specs but I think that server has 128GB Ram as well and something like 32 cores. | |
| 09:20 | I'm more of a software person though, so perhaps I heard something different :p | |
| 09:21 | drojf | oh. i missed that we have two cool proposals for kohacon 2014 now |
| 09:22 | i would not have minded skipping the voting process though ^^ | |
| 09:22 | dcook | hehe |
| 09:23 | I don't know if I'll make the next Kohacon but I've wanted to go to Argentina for years... | |
| 09:24 | * drojf | leaves for non-koha things and hopes he won't forget about the meeting |
| 09:34 | vfernandes joined #koha | |
| 09:34 | vfernandes | Hi people |
| 09:34 | Can anyone help me with some search problems? | |
| 09:36 | I'm getting problems searching for barcodes and callnumbers | |
| 09:38 | if I use keyword search I get 0 results, if I use the specific advanced search fields (callnum and bc) the searches work fine | |
| 09:38 | What could be? | |
| 09:39 | paul_p | kivilahtio = please, give me your server, and I'll be able to run all our Koha libraries with it No doubt ! |
| 09:40 | kivilahtio this server is just crazy if you want my opinion. | |
| 09:51 | drojf | kivilahtio: if you find out it is too much power in the end, ask gmcharlt or rangi about running some automated testing for koha code on a small part of it :) |
| 09:57 | dcook | ^^ |
| 09:57 | vfernandes: I'm not sure. Do those callnum and bc searches take you directly to the items or do they give you result lists? | |
| 09:57 | * dcook | says not really having the time to answer |
| 09:57 | dcook | Almost done my email...3 hours later... |
| 09:58 | vfernandes | bc takes directly to the records, callnum give a result list to searches like "PS" |
| 09:59 | record.abs 995$f barcode, item | |
| 09:59 | i Think this is correct | |
| 10:00 | dcook | UNIMARC? |
| 10:00 | wahanui | UNIMARC is http://www.ifla.org/en/publica[…]ted-documentation |
| 10:00 | vfernandes | yes UNIMARC |
| 10:01 | dcook | Hmm, I'm not sure. I'm just about to leave for the day (8pm in Australia). I'm sure someone else might know. They'll probably need you to paste the results of your zebra reindexing |
| 10:02 | Use the following link for that.. | |
| 10:02 | paste.koha-community.org | |
| 10:02 | vfernandes | i'm getting a error trying to use yaz-client |
| 10:05 | problem solved... | |
| 10:06 | now I can connect with yaz-client | |
| 10:06 | pastebot | "vfernandes" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "record xml" (68 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/210 |
| 10:07 | vfernandes | look at the last two z:index |
| 10:07 | the name looks wrong | |
| 10:07 | could be that? | |
| 10:12 | dcook | Overall, it looks pretty good. Some of the indexes look a bit funny to me but I'm not familiar with UNIMARC (I use MARC21) and I'd have to double-check |
| 10:12 | It looks your any index has data in it. I think the keyword uses the any index. | |
| 10:14 | Although it doesn't look like barcode is in the any index.. | |
| 10:14 | <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491205713ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná2011-04-290AM_RES2012-06-25ISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index> | |
| 10:14 | <z:index name="Any:w Any:p">0100001491105714ISCTE-IUL0MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res)2011-04-290AM_RESISCTE-IULISCTE</z:index> | |
| 10:14 | This seems to have your call number and barcode in it... | |
| 10:14 | vfernandes | 0100001491205713 |
| 10:14 | it's a barcode | |
| 10:15 | dcook | It's probably concatenating all the 995 fields together... |
| 10:15 | vfernandes | so why I can get any results? |
| 10:16 | dcook | Probably because each isn't being indexed separately |
| 10:16 | Any idea what this is? | |
| 10:16 | <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014912 0 5713 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES 2012-06-25 ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index> | |
| 10:16 | <z:index name="item # just to index every subfield:w">01000014911 0 5714 ISCTE-IUL 0 MQ.103 FER*Aná (Res) 2011-04-29 0 AM_RES ISCTE-IUL ISCTE</z:index> | |
| 10:16 | That index name looks really strange | |
| 10:17 | one moment | |
| 10:19 | vfernandes | "item # just to index every subfield" sould be only "item" |
| 10:19 | ? | |
| 10:21 | dcook | Interesting.. |
| 10:21 | wahanui | well, interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad |
| 10:21 | dcook | Yeah, it should just be item |
| 10:21 | However, I think there would still be a bug even if it did just say item | |
| 10:22 | Quick question, how did you show the indexes in yazclient again? | |
| 10:22 | I very rarely do that and I"ve only successfully done it once | |
| 10:22 | vfernandes | it's reindexing now |
| 10:22 | dcook | This might help explain: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]ng_Zebra_indexing |
| 10:23 | vfernandes | yaz-client unix:/KOHA_HOME/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket |
| 10:24 | then: "base biblio", "form xml", "f @attr 1=1016 "search"", s | |
| 10:24 | connect using the unix file, change to biblios database | |
| 10:24 | then do a search and use "s" to show | |
| 10:25 | dcook | Hmm...that just shows it as marcxml |
| 10:26 | Can you do a "list_all" and tell me what shows up for elements | |
| 10:26 | ? | |
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| 10:29 | pastebot | "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/211 |
| 10:29 | "dcook" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Compare UNIMARC 995 with MARC21 952" (56 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/212 | |
| 10:29 | dcook | Try commenting out "melm 995 item # just to index every subfield" and reindexing |
| 10:32 | Anyway, I really should be running (hours ago). I hope that helps or that someone else is able to help you out | |
| 10:33 | vfernandes | first i'm trying removing without "# just to index every subfield" |
| 10:33 | ok thanks dcook | |
| 10:33 | dcook++ | |
| 10:44 | removing "# just to index every subfield" didn't work | |
| 10:52 | I don't know what I could do now | |
| 10:58 | laurence left #koha | |
| 10:58 | vfernandes | in yaz-client if I do the search 'f @attr 1=1016 "01000014912"', I get one record |
| 10:58 | using Koha search in any field I get 0 results | |
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| 12:03 | kf | vfernandes: i think there is a bug about item indexing and dom in unimarc |
| 12:03 | are you using DOM? | |
| 12:14 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 12:17 | oleonard | Hi #koha |
| 12:18 | kf | hi oleonard :) |
| 12:19 | nengard | hiya all |
| 12:25 | viktorsarge_ joined #koha | |
| 12:26 | mtompset joined #koha | |
| 12:26 | mtompset | Greetings, #koha. |
| 12:35 | paul_p joined #koha | |
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| 12:38 | nengard | owen that link you put on twitter is for january 9th ... |
| 12:38 | oleonard ^ | |
| 12:39 | mtompset | Greetings, matts paul_p tcohen nengard. :) |
| 12:39 | oleonard | Ugh |
| 12:39 | nengard | hehe |
| 12:39 | ugh - i retweeted it :) | |
| 12:39 | mtompset | Greetings, oleonard -- Thanks for the meeting reminder. :) |
| 12:40 | paul_p | nengard = yes, oleonard don't want anyone forgetting my birthday :D |
| 12:40 | nengard | awww |
| 12:40 | that was sweet of him :) | |
| 12:41 | mtompset | oleonard++ # for being sweet, but more for the meeting reminder. ;) |
| 12:41 | tcohen | morning #koha |
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| 13:06 | mtompset | Greetings, quoc_uy talljoy Dyrcona. |
| 13:07 | quoc_uy | hi all |
| 13:07 | mtompset | There... finally got my patches up. :) |
| 13:08 | quoc_uy | :) |
| 13:08 | talljoy | good morning! |
| 13:08 | quoc_uy | i am waithing for general meeting :), i missed it 2 months |
| 13:09 | it's about 5 hours to the meeting, isn't it? | |
| 13:09 | mtompset | Not for another 5 hours, I believe. |
| 13:09 | Yes. | |
| 13:09 | quoc_uy | okie. |
| 13:10 | meliss joined #koha | |
| 13:18 | vfernandes | kf: yes I'm using DOM |
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| 13:23 | oleonard | Joubu: How can I test the second patch on Bug 10807? |
| 13:23 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10807 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , OPAC: There is no authority search history |
| 13:25 | Joubu | oleonard: Hi! Did you try to stop zebra? |
| 13:25 | oleonard | Yes--at least I think I did! |
| 13:26 | Would I have gotten an error on the opac search history page after trying a search? | |
| 13:26 | Joubu | I don't remember exactly, I think the issue is: if a search is launched and zebra returns no result, without this patch I got an error |
| 13:26 | no... If zebra returns undef | |
| 13:28 | arf, I don't reproduce | |
| 13:35 | msaby joined #koha | |
| 13:35 | msaby | Greetings, #koha |
| 13:35 | I don't have a lot of time | |
| 13:36 | oleonard | Then you'd better ask your question msaby ;) |
| 13:36 | msaby | I am not here for a question, but an answer ;-) |
| 13:36 | * jcamins | looks up, expecting to see Cybermen or Daleks chasing msaby. :) |
| 13:37 | msaby | for vfernandes and unimarc bugs |
| 13:37 | DOM indexing in unimarc is broken | |
| 13:37 | and there is a specif pbm for searching some fields in the item | |
| 13:37 | I don't know if it can explain vfernandes problem | |
| 13:38 | I am thinking of bug 9830 | |
| 13:38 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9830 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Some UNIMARC item indexes could be broken whith Queryweightfields syspref |
| 13:39 | msaby | (the patch is a bit larger than the title of the bug) |
| 13:43 | (other bugs about fixing DOM for unimarc are bug 8252 - need signoff - and 7421, signed by kf ) | |
| 13:43 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8252 critical, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , Error in DOM biblio for UNIMARC (no range for fields 1xx) |
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| 14:01 | gmcharlt | oleonard++ # meeting reminder |
| 14:02 | msaby | bye |
| 14:04 | jcamins | gmcharlt: is there anything specific holding up bug 5202, or just tuits? |
| 14:04 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5202 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Passed QA , Merge authority records |
| 14:04 | gmcharlt | jcamins: tuits |
| 14:05 | jcamins | There's nothing on the bug, and I can't remember if you asked me a question that I was supposed to get back to you on. |
| 14:05 | Thanks. | |
| 14:06 | chris_n | gmcharlt: did you have a chance to look at my musings on bug 10821? |
| 14:06 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10821 major, P1 - high, ---, cnighswonger, In Discussion , label pdf adding in strange breaking |
| 14:06 | chris_n | it look like it boils down to out-of-spec LC numbers to me |
| 14:07 | * kf | hands gmcharlt a bowl of tuits |
| 14:08 | chris_n | better be chocolate coated :) |
| 14:08 | gmcharlt | heh |
| 14:08 | jcamins | chris_n: don't knock cinnamon cream-coated tuits until you've tried them. |
| 14:09 | chris_n | jcamins: throw some on the next truck headed down I95 if you don't mind; I'll try them |
| 14:09 | gmcharlt | chris_n: upon skimming, I suspect that it does indeed boil down to out-of-spec numbers; the work that motivated the introduction of L::C::LC came with specific examples of real live call numbers |
| 14:09 | nengard | okay .... what are tuits |
| 14:10 | gmcharlt | nengard: they're round tuits, specifically |
| 14:10 | jcamins | nengard: ideally they are round. |
| 14:10 | chris_n | gmcharlt: I'm thinking its a "wont' fix" bug then |
| 14:10 | gmcharlt | sound it out :) |
| 14:11 | kf | I will do it, when I get around.... |
| 14:11 | nengard | chris_n please don't say that |
| 14:11 | gmcharlt | chris_n: a not-likely-to-get-around-to-any-time-soon, at least -- after alll, the architecture does support somebody writing a funky_LCCN sorter |
| 14:11 | nengard | wait a second - the splitter is adding in characters - it's adding in spaces and dots ... how is that a good thing? |
| 14:12 | chris_n | I think the odds of being able to parse all sorts of version of LCCNs is remote at best |
| 14:12 | nengard | then it should go back to the way it was |
| 14:12 | cause it worked for most libraries then | |
| 14:12 | chris_n | nengard: that module "normalizes" LCCNs |
| 14:12 | gmcharlt | nengard: the bug reporter is not following standard LCCN practice -- how is that a good thing? |
| 14:12 | I don't mean that entirely seriously, but there is just a bit of GIGO going on here IMO | |
| 14:13 | nengard | yeah, but there are rules that allow for adding prefixes |
| 14:13 | and suffixes to your call numbers | |
| 14:15 | gmcharlt | chris_n: nengard: I do see enough here to convince me that a non-normalizing version of L::C::LC->components() is worth asking for -- and I know just the person to bug about it |
| 14:15 | nengard | chris_n?? :) |
| 14:15 | gmcharlt | dbwells, actually |
| 14:16 | nengard | k |
| 14:16 | chris_n | gmcharlt: the components method could also be made to consider any rules which permit prefixes and suffixes |
| 14:16 | forcing uc should probably be an option in any case | |
| 14:17 | gmcharlt | indeed |
| 14:17 | * chris_n | always wondered why it seemed that LCCN spine labels were shouting at him |
| 14:18 | nengard | heh |
| 14:19 | chris_n | gmcharlt: will you pass on the request or should it be filed as a bug somewhere? |
| 14:20 | gmcharlt | sec |
| 14:23 | jcamins | marc8-- |
| 14:25 | gmcharlt: I don't suppose you have an example somewhere of using MARC::Batch to convert from MARC-8 to UTF-8? | |
| 14:26 | gmcharlt | chris_n: https://code.google.com/p/libr[…]ssues/detail?id=7 |
| 14:27 | chris_n | gmcharlt: looks good; did you happen to add a note to 10821? |
| 14:28 | nengard: the other important point this bug brings up is the need of properly setting the call number source at the item level | |
| 14:28 | jcamins | Here it is. |
| 14:28 | gmcharlt | chris_n: yes |
| 14:28 | jcamins | I knew there was a one-liner. |
| 14:28 | $record->encoding('UTF-8'); | |
| 14:28 | nengard | chris_n - didn't they say that they had it set to LCC? |
| 14:28 | chris_n | otherwise they are all split as whatever the default CN system is set to |
| 14:28 | jcamins | Wait... no, that's just the leader. |
| 14:29 | chris_n | nengard: there are three options at present I think; let me look |
| 14:29 | nengard | are you saying instead it should be a 'custom' |
| 14:29 | There are more than 3 | |
| 14:29 | gmcharlt | jcamins: there isn't actually an equivalent of $record->to_charset() |
| 14:29 | which is a hole to be filled, yes | |
| 14:29 | nengard | there is Dewey, LCC, Sudoc, Generic ... i think there might be more than that |
| 14:30 | jcamins | Bah humbug. |
| 14:30 | gmcharlt | MARC::File::XML does know how to transcode, though, so you can do the iso2709->marcxml->utf8 route that way |
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| 14:30 | gmcharlt | nengard: I think what chris_n is saying is that the call number class is not just a global setting |
| 14:30 | jcamins | That'll work. |
| 14:30 | gmcharlt | each item can specify what it's correct call number type is |
| 14:31 | chris_n | nengard: the underlying code allows for lcc, nlm, ddc, and then falls back to the ccn (custom call number split) |
| 14:31 | the custom simply splits on spaces I think | |
| 14:32 | * chris_n | is not sure what nlm is |
| 14:32 | gmcharlt | and lcc is the same as nlm (or should be) for splitting purposes |
| 14:32 | chris_n | it is |
| 14:32 | gmcharlt | National Library of Medicine |
| 14:32 | they use a variation of LCCN | |
| 14:33 | nengard | k |
| 14:33 | so instead of LCC everyone should choose CCN if they want it to split the way they expect it to | |
| 14:33 | Joubu | thanks oleonard-away for signing off and the followup! |
| 14:33 | nengard | which isn't quite right cause it's supposed to split at the dots too |
| 14:34 | and you said it only splits at spaces | |
| 14:34 | chris_n | nengard: ccn will split on spaces |
| 14:34 | actually not just on spaces | |
| 14:34 | hold on | |
| 14:35 | nengard | :) |
| 14:35 | gmcharlt | nengard: please don't make a general recommendation for folks to set it to anything other than LCC for the LC call numbers |
| 14:35 | that only invites longer term problems | |
| 14:36 | pastebot | "chris_n" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "CCN Split Test" (49 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/213 |
| 14:37 | chris_n | nengard: ccn should not be used as a type |
| 14:38 | jcamins | Oh man. This file is a mess. |
| 14:38 | ... not that I'm surprised. | |
| 14:39 | chris_n | the way the code is currently written, ccn is a fall back for when lcc or ddc fails to split (which is probably very seldom in reality) |
| 14:39 | but I suppose that we could entertain a system preference which would permit users to cook up their own splitting regexp to be applied if they so chose | |
| 14:40 | but that may create more problems than it solves | |
| 14:41 | gmcharlt | hmm |
| 14:41 | jcamins | Silly chris_n... what could possibly go wrong? (computer explodes in flames) |
| 14:41 | gmcharlt | a new class_sources.splitting_rule might be a Nice Thing |
| 14:42 | (in conjunction with everything that such a column would imply) | |
| 14:43 | chris_n | jcamins: its probably more likely that users would be exploding into flames trying to get their brains wrapped around the proper algorithm :) |
| 14:43 | jcamins | chris_n: well, maybe. |
| 14:43 | chris_n | gmcharlt: its probably not a bad idea over all and would lend welcomed flexibility for those who need their particular variation of the theme |
| 14:44 | * chris_n | imagines dilbert on fire |
| 14:47 | jcamins | Aleph-- # pretty sure these records came from Aleph. |
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| 14:50 | chris_n | ok, I marked the bug 'wontfix' because the "problem" is really not with our code; added a note of explanation saying as much |
| 14:54 | kivilahtio | While reading the implementation checklist, I noticed custom patron fields. I remember we loved that attribute, but I am curious whther or not you use SSNs with your patron records? |
| 14:55 | do you need to store your patrons SSNs? | |
| 14:55 | ssn? | |
| 14:55 | jcamins | kivilahtio: I generally try to persuade my libraries not to. |
| 14:55 | kivilahtio | jcamins: we too, but they don't want to lose the SSN |
| 14:55 | I think it has to do with accountability | |
| 14:55 | jcamins | I know of libraries that use extended patron attributes for SSN. |
| 14:56 | kivilahtio | and the fear that they never can fine patrons who won't return books |
| 14:56 | jcamins: yeah, that was our initial plan, but how secure that is? | |
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| 14:56 | jcamins | For me, the accountability of having the SSN available for librarians and disgruntled student employees to steal greatly outweighs the accountability of being able to look up SSN. |
| 14:57 | kivilahtio | jcamins: I guess there is no way of hiding the SSN from unauthorized librarians? |
| 14:57 | jcamins | It is as secure as your server. It's all available to anyone with the permissions to view it. |
| 14:57 | I don't think so, though I guess there might be. | |
| 14:57 | kivilahtio | jcamins: But you havent conducted any security reviews? |
| 14:57 | jcamins: Like purchase a security certificate from a 3rd party? | |
| 14:58 | jcamins | No. |
| 14:58 | I'm not sure if anyone else has either. | |
| 14:58 | Maybe ByWater? | |
| 14:59 | tcohen | bug 10405 |
| 14:59 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10405 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , User-editable sections should have ids |
| 14:59 | kivilahtio | jcamins: do you have any idea who would help us make such a security audit? |
| 14:59 | jcamins: does the Koha community have a security team | |
| 15:00 | tcohen | jcamins, your patch changes the template's logic in several places |
| 15:00 | jcamins | kivilahtio: not really. |
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| 15:00 | kivilahtio | jcamins: ok |
| 15:01 | jcamins | tcohen: yeah, I make several sections appear always. |
| 15:11 | gmcharlt: hey, are we sure that MARC::File::MiJ actually handles non-ascii? | |
| 15:12 | gmcharlt | jcamins: I haven't played with enough to have an opinion -- check with BillDueber in #code4lib |
| 15:15 | mtompset | But those sections which jcamins made appear always are blank, tcohen. So, it's not really a big deal, is it? |
| 15:19 | jcamins | gmcharlt: since I know you have been anxiously awaiting the answer, it is "no." |
| 15:20 | Or, at least, it seems to be. | |
| 15:20 | gmcharlt | jcamins: good thing it's only 0.1ish :) |
| 15:21 | jcamins | Yep. |
| 15:25 | gmcharlt: really using MARC::File::MiJ is just laziness on my part and I ought to be ashamed of myself, or something. | |
| 15:26 | gmcharlt | jcamins: unpack that a little? the flip side is that you are providing valuing beta testing for a new module :) |
| 15:26 | *valuable | |
| 15:27 | jcamins | gmcharlt: I need JSON for Biblionarrator, but I'm too lazy to write a node.js module that generates MiJ, so instead I'm uploading all my MARC files to my development server, where I run a tiny script that opens them and spits out MiJ, and download the result. |
| 15:28 | * jcamins | justifies this absurd process to himself by saying "hey, we're only on version 0.0.4." |
| 15:46 | oleonard | kf: Does Bug 10850 refer to /cgi-bin/koha/labels/spinelabel-print.pl ? |
| 15:46 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10850 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , Give Quick spine label template page its own id |
| 15:47 | kf | oleonard: yes, I think so |
| 15:48 | oleonard | Thanks, I see the problem |
| 15:51 | magnuse | lazy question: how are items marked as "in transit" (in the database) |
| 15:51 | ? | |
| 15:54 | or to put it another way: how can i write sql that finds items that are in transit? | |
| 15:57 | kf | transfers table or T |
| 16:00 | * oleonard | will be back for the meeting |
| 16:06 | magnuse | kf: T? |
| 16:06 | wahanui | T is for unit tests like functionality stuffs |
| 16:06 | magnuse | ooh, there is a meeting? |
| 16:06 | kf | in the reserves table in status i think |
| 16:06 | if it's a ohld reserve | |
| 16:06 | transfers tabel for the manual ones | |
| 16:09 | magnuse | kf++ branchtransfers was what i was looking for |
| 16:09 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 16:10 | magnuse | ah, meeting i 1 hour 50 minutes |
| 16:10 | i might catch that, perhaps | |
| 16:10 | kf | :) |
| 16:30 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 16:30 | kf | magnuse: sorry, was on the phone typing :) but glad you found it |
| 16:30 | * druthb | gets out the duct tape, and tapes herself to her chair. |
| 16:31 | magnuse | druthb: you planning to stick around for the meeting, then? ;-) |
| 16:31 | * druthb | gets out the Goo-Gone, so she can untape herself and RUN AWAY. |
| 16:31 | rambutan | funny :) |
| 16:32 | druthb | I have filled my meeting quota for the day. |
| 16:33 | The "protocol" meeting for the cPanel conference was about useless. | |
| 16:33 | "don't miss the bus, be on time for your preso, wear your fancy polo. oh, and don't pee in the gutter in NOLA. They arrest people for that there. | |
| 16:35 | (implying, of course, that a) this is a problem, and b) they *don't* arrest people for that in Houston.) | |
| 16:36 | rambutan | I was thinking those same implications :) |
| 16:37 | druthb | cPanellers have a reputation for consuming lots of alcomohols at these events. "Don't be the story" is the mantra. |
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| 17:20 | cait | everyone get ready - meeting in 40 min :) |
| 17:23 | * mtompset | braces for impact. ;) |
| 17:24 | * druthb | hides. |
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| 17:38 | * druthb | makes the popcorn for the meeting, gets a big bowl, and tells mtompset to scoot over n make room for another spectator. |
| 17:39 | mtompset | Sorry, my thighs haven't shrunk much on my diet yet. :( |
| 17:39 | * mtompset | scoots over. |
| 17:39 | * druthb | scrunches in. |
| 17:39 | offers popcorn. | |
| 17:40 | mtompset | Sadly, not on my diet. :( Have an celery? |
| 17:40 | ^an^any^ | |
| 17:40 | druthb | hm. Maybe. |
| 17:40 | * druthb | picks up her cell phone, taps at it for a moment. |
| 17:41 | looks impatiently at the door | |
| 17:41 | * cait | takes the popcorn |
| 17:41 | cait | sweet or salty? |
| 17:41 | * druthb | gives the delivery boy the ebil eye as he comes in, with a package of celery sticks. |
| 17:41 | druthb | sweet-ish. |
| 17:41 | * druthb | tips the delivery boy, who flees from her wrath. |
| 17:41 | offers mtompset the celery. | |
| 17:42 | druthb | Better? |
| 17:42 | wahanui | Better is "take cover." :) |
| 17:43 | * druthb | shoots a rubber band at wahanui. |
| 17:43 | oleonard | Gonna have to miss the meeting after all guys, my apologies. |
| 17:43 | cait | druthb: excellent, i don't like salty :) |
| 17:44 | druthb | I don't like overly sweet, but super-salty is no good, either |
| 17:44 | mtompset | Yep... of course, I'd offer you a chocolate, but it has to last me until tomorrow. ;) |
| 17:44 | druthb | oh, no worries. Is the world still turning? |
| 17:44 | alphaman joined #koha | |
| 17:44 | druthb | ….then I still have chocolate. |
| 17:45 | * druthb | is in a sassy mood, cait; you better watch out. |
| 17:50 | mduncan joined #koha | |
| 17:53 | * talljoy | hides from druthb |
| 17:54 | * druthb | offers talljoy some popcorn. |
| 17:55 | talljoy | mmmm....popcorn |
| 17:57 | bag | yay!!! feels the excitement |
| 17:57 | oh popcorn! hmm I'm going to go make some | |
| 17:57 | mtompset | I hope it is more meaningful than next, next, next. :) |
| 17:57 | bgkriegel joined #koha | |
| 17:57 | cait | :) |
| 17:58 | tcohen | can i add to "coding guidelines" that template plugins should go in a separate commit? |
| 17:59 | clintD joined #koha | |
| 17:59 | drojf | oops. mailing list fail |
| 17:59 | cait | tcohen: you mean new plugins? |
| 17:59 | tcohen | yes |
| 18:00 | cait | hm does it happen that often? |
| 18:00 | tcohen | everything seems to depend on course reserves right now |
| 18:00 | cait | I am a bit confused :) |
| 18:00 | oh | |
| 18:00 | davidnind joined #koha | |
| 18:00 | cait | maybe just ask kyle to split out the template as a patch for 3.12? |
| 18:01 | tcohen | khall? |
| 18:01 | drojf | in case someone gets a moderation request for the mailing lists when unlisted addresses are used as senders… sorry, please delete my mail :) |
| 18:01 | thd | Does anyone remember when we had agreed to schedule a vote on the KohaCon14 bids, now that we actually have two options for a contest? |
| 18:02 | drojf | thd: beginning of october |
| 18:02 | cait | drojf does i guess |
| 18:02 | but maybe discuss at the meeting? :) | |
| 18:03 | khall | tcohen: that's a good idea |
| 18:03 | gmcharlt | speaking of which, it's time now, so who is moderating it? |
| 18:03 | clint_ joined #koha | |
| 18:03 | drojf | that's a lot of volunteers |
| 18:04 | cait | i can try - with some help getting the actions and infos in place |
| 18:04 | drojf | yay cait |
| 18:04 | thd | I will take a turn one day but my keyboard is barely working at present. |
| 18:04 | cait | #startmeeting General IRC Meeting |
| 18:04 | huginn` | Meeting started Wed Sep 11 18:04:41 2013 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 18:04 | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | |
| 18:04 | Topic for #koha is now (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:04 | huginn` | The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting' |
| 18:04 | cait | #topic Introductions |
| 18:04 | Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:04 | wahanui | #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient |
| 18:04 | rhcl | #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library |
| 18:05 | gmcharlt | #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software, 3.14 RM |
| 18:05 | cait | please introduce yourself using #info |
| 18:05 | nengard | #info Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:05 | cait | #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany |
| 18:05 | mduncan | #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler |
| 18:05 | NateC | #info |
| 18:05 | * thd | is typing in lower case and yet the caps lock key is down. What causes that? |
| 18:05 | davidnind | #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand |
| 18:05 | khall | #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:05 | druthb | #info D Ruth Bavousett |
| 18:05 | meliss | #info Melissa Lefebvre, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:05 | tcohen | #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba |
| 18:05 | bgkriegel | #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Cordoba, Argentina |
| 18:05 | mtompset | #info Mark Tompsett |
| 18:05 | jwagner | #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS |
| 18:05 | phred_ | #info Fred King, Washington Hospital Center |
| 18:05 | tajoli | Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy |
| 18:05 | drojf | #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany |
| 18:05 | thd | Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 18:05 | cait | #info Agenda for today's meeting: http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]th_September_2013 |
| 18:05 | mtompset | tajoli: You forgot the #info. |
| 18:06 | tajoli | #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy |
| 18:06 | thd | #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 18:06 | NateC | Nate Curulla: Bywater Solutions |
| 18:06 | cait | maybe that should have been #link :) |
| 18:06 | bag | #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater |
| 18:06 | cait | all done? |
| 18:07 | tcohen | yeap |
| 18:07 | cait | #topic Announcements |
| 18:07 | Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:07 | cait | *waits* |
| 18:07 | clint_ joined #koha | |
| 18:07 | cait | no announcements? :) |
| 18:08 | drnoe | #info David Noe, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:08 | NateC | I like space |
| 18:08 | gmcharlt | "... in other news, the sky is blue today" |
| 18:08 | cait | ok, is chrish around? |
| 18:08 | bgkriegel? | |
| 18:08 | wahanui | bgkriegel is on a signoff spree |
| 18:08 | cait | :) |
| 18:09 | clint_ | #info clintD, Anact, NZ |
| 18:09 | bgkriegel | yes :) |
| 18:09 | cait | #topic Update on 3.10 |
| 18:09 | Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.10 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:09 | bgkriegel | all is well, a little behind |
| 18:09 | but i will catch up | |
| 18:09 | cait | bgkriegel++ |
| 18:10 | thx for your work :) | |
| 18:10 | iwill move to 3.12 then? | |
| 18:10 | #topic Update on 3.12 | |
| 18:10 | Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.12 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:10 | cait | tcohen: the stage is yours :) |
| 18:10 | tcohen | 3.12 is getting mature, no big bugs arise |
| 18:11 | talljoy | #info Joy Nelson ByWater Solutions |
| 18:11 | tcohen | i plan to cherry-pick dom indexing support for packages |
| 18:11 | but leaving grs1 as default | |
| 18:11 | (dom-as-default would be a 3.14 feature) | |
| 18:11 | cait | sounds good to me |
| 18:11 | tcohen | trying to catch up with master |
| 18:12 | and that's it :-D | |
| 18:12 | cait | thx tcohen - tcohen++ :) |
| 18:12 | #topic Update on 3.14 | |
| 18:12 | Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.14 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:12 | gmcharlt | OK |
| 18:12 | #info Feature slush remains at 2012-09-25 | |
| 18:13 | #info Feature freeze remains at 2013-10-03 | |
| 18:13 | #info Architectural changes that are still on the table for inclusion in 3.14 are DBIx::Class and some sort of logging module | |
| 18:13 | #info planning a big push, well, push next week after the QA sprint tomorroow | |
| 18:14 | cait | gmcharlt: can you define feature slush a little? want to prevent any misunderstandings if possible :) |
| 18:14 | gmcharlt | #info RM emphasis for this release is reinforcing the QA process -- patches must have sufficient review to be accepted, and I'm heavily pushing for unit tests |
| 18:15 | cait | gmcharlt++ |
| 18:15 | tcohen | gmcharlt++ |
| 18:15 | gmcharlt | cait: feature slush -- any new features that have hit passed QA by that date will be included in 3.14, assuming they don't raise signfiicant QA concerns on my part |
| 18:16 | cait | thx :) |
| 18:16 | gmcharlt | new features that have /not/ hit passed QA by feature slush are more liable to be left for the next release; if you want something that misses slush to make it in, you'll need to advocate for it |
| 18:16 | thd | Why does slush have the name slush? |
| 18:16 | gmcharlt | a partial freeze, of course |
| 18:17 | thd | OK |
| 18:17 | gmcharlt | also, another announcement -- I did not, of course, actually do a tarball of a pre-pre-alpha |
| 18:17 | instaed, I'll do so shortly after feature freeze | |
| 18:17 | * thd | was thinking of other domains in which slush is used. |
| 18:17 | gmcharlt | any questions for me? |
| 18:18 | thd | What is intended to be logged for a logging feature? |
| 18:18 | cait | just a thank you for your work gmcharlt++ |
| 18:18 | tajoli | The differce beetwenn slush and freeze ? |
| 18:19 | gmcharlt | thd: system events, debug info |
| 18:19 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 18:19 | gmcharlt | essentially, the idea in the patch series for bug 8190, but a version that supports syslog |
| 18:19 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha |
| 18:19 | gmcharlt | which is a sine qua non from my POV |
| 18:19 | bag | gmcharlt: what's the road block for DBIx::Class currently? |
| 18:20 | is it just getting the DB foriegn keys worked out... | |
| 18:20 | gmcharlt | the current patch series needs some cleanup, and there are some FK to be added |
| 18:20 | cait | just... :) |
| 18:20 | oleonard | #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries |
| 18:20 | gmcharlt | also, the current patch series uses an otion that the DBIC maintainer specifically recommends against |
| 18:20 | bag | ok subtract just from my statement cait :) |
| 18:20 | gmcharlt | but be assured, it /will/ be in 3.14 |
| 18:20 | cait | i think it's doable |
| 18:20 | bag | ok cool thanks galen |
| 18:21 | drojf1 joined #koha | |
| 18:21 | cait | gmcharlt: have you seen tajoli's question? |
| 18:21 | gmcharlt | ah, no, missed it |
| 18:22 | tcohen | tajoli: any feature that is passed-qa by feature slush is elegible for 3.14, otherwise it isnt. |
| 18:22 | gmcharlt | I did answer the question about the distinction between slush and freeze, if that's what you're referring to |
| 18:22 | cait | then I missed it :) |
| 18:22 | Callender_ joined #koha | |
| 18:22 | mtompset | frozen out, verses slushing in. :) |
| 18:22 | gmcharlt | no, looks like tajoli had asked the same question you had asked, cait :) |
| 18:22 | mtompset | ^verses^versus^ |
| 18:23 | cait | if there are no more questions we can move on? |
| 18:23 | tajoli | In fact yes, is the same question |
| 18:23 | cait | #topic QA sprint day |
| 18:23 | Topic for #koha is now QA sprint day (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:23 | cait | we had a qa team meeting and discussed some ideas on how to get things moving and flowing a bit better |
| 18:23 | and one of the ideas that came up was a QA sprint day | |
| 18:24 | #link http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]-12_QA_Sprint_day | |
| 18:24 | mtj++ has added a wiki page for it and i hope that lots of QA will be done | |
| 18:24 | but right now I think the needs sign off queue needs some work too... | |
| 18:24 | tcohen | sounds great, can we non-QA people help? |
| 18:24 | cait | and for the big features you want to see moved through qa a second sign off would make help |
| 18:24 | or third.. fourth... | |
| 18:25 | best with some notes what you looked at | |
| 18:25 | there are some pretty big patches in the qa queue right now that take a lot of time testing | |
| 18:26 | so it's not a GBSD - but with 169 bugs in needs signoff... and 51 of that bugs... | |
| 18:26 | please feel free to test test test everything you can get your hands on :) | |
| 18:26 | mtompset | But will it be coordinated after GBSD's in the future? |
| 18:27 | cait | it's something new we try out, we will have to see how it goes I think |
| 18:27 | tajoli | I have an annucement about sign off |
| 18:27 | cait | I think it actually might have started already in kiribati or so? |
| 18:28 | tajoli | As CINECA we try to sponsor an our internal IT as 'sign offer' |
| 18:28 | cait | #info if you care about a feature, don't hesitate to give it another good testing and sign off |
| 18:28 | drojf | tajoli++ |
| 18:28 | * oleonard | dispatches the QA team to Kiribati in a black helicopter |
| 18:28 | tcohen | heh |
| 18:29 | tajoli | this person is working only on bugs in 'Need Sign Off' to test them |
| 18:29 | cait | tajoli: sounds good |
| 18:29 | drojf | tajoli: you should probably send the person here |
| 18:29 | cait | i was going to suggest that too :) |
| 18:30 | drojf | if there is no language barrier |
| 18:30 | tajoli | Her name is 'Paola Rossi' <paola.rossicineca.it> |
| 18:30 | mtompset | oleonard has the helicopter to transport the person. ;) |
| 18:30 | tajoli | She speak Italian and English |
| 18:31 | cait | tajoli: I think I have seen her name on some patches already? |
| 18:31 | tajoli | But she doesn't have a big knowldge of Koha |
| 18:31 | cait | or maybe i confuse her |
| 18:31 | tajoli | She stritly follow the plan inside |
| 18:32 | cait | maybe she can note that - or she can drop on irc and ask if there is something she is not sure about |
| 18:32 | or just note on the bug :) | |
| 18:32 | tajoli | she worked heavly on waterfall metodology |
| 18:33 | so, if you receive an email from her, answer as longer as you can | |
| 18:34 | I think that in some month she could stard to write unit test also | |
| 18:34 | but not now | |
| 18:35 | So if tomorrow you have a simple 'sign off', write me and I send it to her | |
| 18:35 | cait | cineca++ |
| 18:35 | tcohen | cineca++ |
| 18:35 | tajoli | That all folk |
| 18:35 | cait | any more questions and notes about this topic? |
| 18:35 | is there something people would like to see given top priority in QA? | |
| 18:35 | your chance ;) | |
| 18:36 | drojf | good qa |
| 18:36 | :P | |
| 18:36 | cait | drojf: excellent priority :) |
| 18:36 | gmcharlt | cait++ |
| 18:36 | cait | ok, i see that nancy has left a note on the wiki |
| 18:36 | gmcharlt | drojf++ |
| 18:36 | tcohen | packages patches |
| 18:36 | gmcharlt | tajoli++ |
| 18:36 | cait | tcohen: have been trying, but my vm ... was annoying |
| 18:37 | tcohen | i'll be around to help on them if needed |
| 18:37 | oleonard | cait, we contributed money towards Bug 2720, so we're anxious to see that pass |
| 18:37 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2720 enhancement, P3, ---, kyle, Signed Off , Overdues which debar automatically should undebar automatically when returned |
| 18:37 | cait | will try again soon, but would be nice if someone beat me to it |
| 18:37 | oleonard: ok | |
| 18:38 | #topic KohaCon2013 | |
| 18:38 | Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2013 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:39 | cait | #info news from nancy were sent to the mailinglist and are also noted on the agenda |
| 18:39 | nengard left #koha | |
| 18:39 | cait | it looks like we need more people reserving rooms at the hotel |
| 18:39 | drojf | hm |
| 18:39 | question | |
| 18:39 | wahanui | question is "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" |
| 18:39 | cait | so if you are guilty of going to KohaCon but not having done your bookings yet... |
| 18:39 | yes drojf? | |
| 18:39 | wahanui | drojf is from Germany and developing Koha on a raspberry pi! |
| 18:40 | thd | The note does not give a reminder of the required number for meeting the hotel conditions. |
| 18:40 | cait | i think the email had it |
| 18:40 | drojf | i don't think it is mandatory to sleep in that hotel, is it? so in theory, is it possible that there won't be a conference location if not enough people get rooms? |
| 18:40 | thd | How many more reservations are needed? |
| 18:40 | cait | I think they have to pay for the meeting rooms then |
| 18:40 | that's what i understood | |
| 18:41 | phred_ | ISTR it was 125, with about 100 registered. |
| 18:41 | drojf | and by they you mean you? |
| 18:41 | cait | #link http://koha-community.org/koha[…]t-2013/#kohacon13 |
| 18:41 | oleonard | As the hosts I think they would have to pay drojf |
| 18:41 | We don't have a mechanism set up to charge attendees | |
| 18:42 | drojf | ok |
| 18:42 | cait | or look for more sponsors |
| 18:42 | drojf | iw as a little confused by the calculation of every registration equals a room booked |
| 18:42 | thd | drogf: The host goal is to break even on expenses. If anything goes wrong, then they loose. |
| 18:43 | cait | i thnk we can move on? |
| 18:43 | drojf | yup |
| 18:43 | cait | #topic KohaCon14 |
| 18:43 | Topic for #koha is now KohaCon14 (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:44 | drojf | as you have probably seen, i have sent out another mail. proposals close 15 september |
| 18:44 | i set 18 UTC as the time, so there is one | |
| 18:44 | we have two proposals | |
| 18:44 | argentina and nigeria | |
| 18:44 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 18:44 | drojf | and i do not expect another one coming up in the next three days, but who knows |
| 18:45 | i think that's about it | |
| 18:45 | cait | drojf: 2 will be easy for voting i think? |
| 18:45 | drojf | one would have been easy :) |
| 18:45 | cait | true :) |
| 18:45 | ok, next topic | |
| 18:45 | tcohen | voting? |
| 18:45 | wahanui | voting is http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html |
| 18:45 | cait | #topic Actions from previous meeting |
| 18:45 | Topic for #koha is now Actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:46 | tcohen | when will it happen? |
| 18:46 | cait | tcohen: sorry, was too fast |
| 18:46 | tcohen | np |
| 18:46 | cait | drojf: have we talked about that yet? |
| 18:46 | drojf | we said beginning of october. sow e should probably fix that now |
| 18:47 | because next meeting will be after that | |
| 18:47 | how long did we do the last times? open polls for a week or something? | |
| 18:47 | thd` joined #koha | |
| 18:48 | cait | maybe 2 |
| 18:48 | phred_ | Sorry for delay--just found e-mail from Nancy--need 125 rooms booked, didn't say how many had been (as of 28 August) |
| 18:48 | drojf | what about voting from 23september to 6 october? |
| 18:48 | cait | sounds ok to me |
| 18:48 | tcohen | +1 |
| 18:49 | mtompset | +1 |
| 18:49 | bgkriegel | +1 |
| 18:49 | cait | +1 |
| 18:49 | drojf | that would be two weeks and cover the beginning of october part, but would not delay things unnecessarily |
| 18:49 | davidnind | +1 |
| 18:49 | cait | have we figured out who will set up the vote? |
| 18:49 | tajoli | +1 |
| 18:49 | bag | nengard can you? |
| 18:49 | drojf | i can do a limesurvey i guess |
| 18:49 | cait | cool |
| 18:49 | drojf++ | |
| 18:49 | bag | oh darn she's out |
| 18:50 | cait | #agreed the vote for kohacon14 will be open from 23september to 6 october? |
| 18:50 | thd`` joined #koha | |
| 18:51 | cait | hm missed to delete the questionmark |
| 18:51 | #action drojf will set up a limesurvey | |
| 18:51 | ;) | |
| 18:51 | SherryS left #koha | |
| 18:51 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 18:51 | cait | ok, as there are actually no actions left from last meeting it seems |
| 18:51 | Brooke | 0/ |
| 18:51 | mtompset | Also back under KohaCon related issues, my Filipino colleague is dreaming of how to make a 2015 proposal work. But no promises. :) |
| 18:51 | cait | i think we can move on and decide a time and date for the next :) |
| 18:52 | Brooke | isn't next meeting essentially KohaCon? |
| 18:52 | cait | roughly in a month... before kohacon? |
| 18:52 | #topic Set time for next meeting | |
| 18:52 | Topic for #koha is now Set time for next meeting (Meeting topic: General IRC Meeting) | |
| 18:52 | thd`` | Do we want to set a time after the votes on KohaCon14 have been tallied? |
| 18:52 | cait | Brooke: not everyone is going there - so i think having one before wouldn't hurt |
| 18:53 | and we are getting closer and closer to release | |
| 18:53 | and deadlines | |
| 18:53 | what about... october 12th? | |
| 18:53 | drojf: which time is next? | |
| 18:53 | tcohen | why not just after kohacon14 voting end? |
| 18:53 | smkvt left #koha | |
| 18:53 | oleonard | October 12 is a Saturday |
| 18:54 | cait | oh sory, was looking at the wrong month |
| 18:54 | oleonard | Wed. 9 October? |
| 18:54 | thd`` | +1 |
| 18:54 | tcohen | +1 # 9 Oct |
| 18:54 | cait | +1 |
| 18:54 | thd`` | What hour is next? |
| 18:54 | oleonard | Where are we in the time rotation? What's next? |
| 18:54 | davidnind | +1 9 October |
| 18:54 | mtompset | That works without interfering with the travelling of those going to KohaCon. |
| 18:54 | talljoy | +1 |
| 18:54 | gmcharlt | +1 10/9 |
| 18:54 | cait | i asked drojf - didn't work :) |
| 18:55 | davidnind | 10:00 UTC |
| 18:55 | cait | sounds about right |
| 18:55 | ok | |
| 18:55 | mtompset | +1 October 9. |
| 18:55 | cait | #info next meeting will be on 9th October, 10 UTC |
| 18:56 | thank you all for attending :) | |
| 18:56 | bgkriegel | cait++ |
| 18:56 | cait | go testing patches! |
| 18:56 | Brooke | thanks for chairing. *sucker* ;) |
| 18:56 | mtompset | cait++ # thanks for chairing the meeting. |
| 18:56 | drojf | sorry, was in the kitchen :) |
| 18:56 | davidnind | cait++ |
| 18:56 | talljoy | cait++ |
| 18:56 | gmcharlt | cait++ |
| 18:56 | cait | #endmeeting |
| 18:56 | Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software http://koha-community.org The next general meeting is 11 September 2013 at 18:00 UTC. Please use http://paste.koha-community.org for long pastes | |
| 18:56 | huginn` | Meeting ended Wed Sep 11 18:56:19 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 18:56 | Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community[…]-09-11-18.04.html | |
| 18:56 | Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-09-11-18.04.txt | |
| 18:56 | Log: http://meetings.koha-community[…]11-18.04.log.html | |
| 18:56 | drojf | cait++ |
| 18:56 | rhcl | cait++ |
| 18:56 | tcohen | cait++ |
| 18:56 | tajoli left #koha | |
| 18:57 | * thd`` | tries to recover from multiple identities. |
| 18:58 | druthb | cait++ |
| 18:58 | cait | karma! :) |
| 19:00 | meliss: just noted your name in the meeting logs - welcome :) | |
| 19:01 | meliss | thanks, cait |
| 19:01 | cait | :) |
| 19:03 | davidnind left #koha | |
| 19:12 | clint_ | quit |
| 19:19 | bag | @later tell rangi - hey man shoot me a ping when you get in today :) Thanks |
| 19:19 | huginn` | bag: The operation succeeded. |
| 19:25 | * druthb | blames Jesse. |
| 19:25 | Jesse | Hiya druthb |
| 19:26 | always blaming someone arent you ? :P | |
| 19:26 | druthb | usually. |
| 19:26 | Jesse | :) |
| 19:42 | meliss joined #koha | |
| 19:46 | meliss1 joined #koha | |
| 19:47 | cait | bag: I think he is travelling - judging from twitter |
| 19:47 | bag | ah failed to watch twitter |
| 19:48 | darn thanks cait figured something like that | |
| 19:48 | cait | was just reading there this minute :) |
| 19:50 | * cait | starts QA Sprint Day by looking at 7180 |
| 19:59 | rambutan | ping jcamins |
| 20:00 | * jcamins | waves. |
| 20:00 | rambutan | for the offline module, there's nothing intuitive to indicate to users to log out |
| 20:01 | there's just the usual "log out" but that's if you are connected to koha live | |
| 20:01 | jcamins | Hmmm. |
| 20:01 | rambutan | wonder if there should be (or is?) some way to indicate that? |
| 20:01 | jcamins | That's a good point. |
| 20:02 | It didn't occur to me because I am used to the "dead circ desk connection" situation, where logging off is unnecessary. | |
| 20:02 | Of course, the problem is if there's an offline log off feature, there's no way to log back on if you realize you didn't mean to. | |
| 20:02 | quoc_uy joined #koha | |
| 20:03 | jcamins | Hmm. |
| 20:03 | quoc_uy | So i missed irc-meeting one more time... |
| 20:03 | cait | hm how woud you name a section on the wiki page for 'who is working on what right now'? |
| 20:04 | jcamins | What about a message "Are you sure you want to log out? Once you log out, you will not be able to log in again until you have a connection to your server." |
| 20:04 | quoc_uy | hi jcamins, how are u? |
| 20:04 | jcamins | Not bad. How about you? |
| 20:05 | cait: "Who is working on what"? | |
| 20:05 | quoc_uy | i'm fine |
| 20:05 | i was out 3 hour, can't get meeting on 18.00 | |
| 20:06 | jcamins | That's okay. |
| 20:06 | That's the disadvantage with the fixed times. | |
| 20:06 | cait | i called it: What we are working on right now... |
| 20:06 | jcamins | cait: that works. |
| 20:06 | rambutan | jcamins: no, thinking of bookmobile stops... |
| 20:07 | when you complete transactions at one stop/location, the users aren't sure what to do, instinctively they want to "logout" before shutting down the computer... | |
| 20:07 | jcamins | Ohhh. |
| 20:07 | I see. | |
| 20:07 | rambutan | and going to the next stop, where they want to "logon" again, lather, rinse, repeat |
| 20:08 | jcamins | So maybe the best option would be something that checks if you're online, and if you're not says "sorry, you cannot log out while offline"? |
| 20:09 | rambutan | or something that simply says: "there is no need to logout in the offline module, simply close the browser?????) .... not sure |
| 20:09 | jcamins | I guess I could also just hide the logout button. |
| 20:10 | rambutan | now having said all that, we did this testing again and can't find the transactions to sync "not found". What did we do before to get them back? |
| 20:10 | closing the browser and restarting the computer nukes them | |
| 20:11 | jcamins | Do you have some sort of privacy plugin that wipes the browser's settings? |
| 20:11 | rambutan | no |
| 20:11 | jcamins | And you tried clicking the "Upload transactions" button even though it says "No transactions to upload"? |
| 20:12 | rambutan | yea, and it says no transactions found, just like before |
| 20:13 | pianohacker joined #koha | |
| 20:13 | jcamins | Last time all we had to do was click that button, and then go to "pending offline circulation actions." |
| 20:15 | rambutan | that's what I thought too, but it doesn't work this time. Maybe we need the new set of files... |
| 20:16 | jcamins | I suspect you may, but I have a thought about what the problem is. |
| 20:16 | If you go to the home page of your staff client, are you logged in? | |
| 20:18 | rambutan | well, standby. We decided to do a reboot and now we have to wait for MS to install 5 updates. <bad bad words invoked here> |
| 20:18 | but yes, we were logged in when attempting to sync | |
| 20:50 | maximep left #koha | |
| 21:12 | jcamins | rambutan: has it restarted? |
| 21:13 | rambutan | We're working on plan c ATM |
| 21:13 | jcamins | Okay. |
| 21:13 | rambutan | We rebooted into linux, installed newest FF, and are now downloading records |
| 21:14 | jcamins | Was it Windows before? |
| 21:17 | rambutan | yea |
| 21:17 | jcamins | That shouldn't make a difference, as I made it a point of testing under Windows, but if you have anti-virus, that may do things to it. |
| 21:18 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 21:18 | rambutan | hummm, wouldn't have thought that would nuke records |
| 21:19 | jcamins | I'm wondering if some sort of "internet protection thing" might clear out the web browser to "protect" you. |
| 21:19 | rambutan | did you test using win 7? |
| 21:19 | jcamins | Yup. |
| 21:19 | And Microsoft Security Essentials. | |
| 21:19 | BigRig_ joined #koha | |
| 21:19 | jcamins | I shall check the version of FF. |
| 21:20 | BigRig__ joined #koha | |
| 21:21 | jcamins | 23. |
| 21:23 | That should be pretty recent, though possibly not the latest. | |
| 21:24 | That _is_ the latest. | |
| 21:24 | I just checked. | |
| 21:36 | mtj_ joined #koha | |
| 21:45 | jcamins | rambutan: how about this for the logout issue: http://screencast.com/t/bFBpR0EL7Z |
| 21:46 | I tried a bunch of variations on "sorry, you can't log out because you're offline" dialogs, but they felt counterintuitive because why am I looking at a logout button if logging out isn't permitted? | |
| 22:00 | BigRig joined #koha | |
| 22:08 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 22:13 | rambutan | jcamins: yea, I like that! |
| 22:14 | jcamins | rambutan: excellent. |
| 22:14 | You're still on 3.10.something, yes? | |
| 22:16 | rambutan | yea 3.10.03 |
| 22:16 | BTW, we've confirmed the transactions load fine on linux (Mint), tomorrow I'm going to work more w/ J on the windows side, but now I'm less concerned about it | |
| 22:17 | jcamins | Do you have any anti-virus? |
| 22:18 | I can't explain exactly why anti-virus would cause an issue, but my gut instinct is that I may have overlooked more aggressive anti-virus systems. | |
| 22:18 | rambutan | Kaspersky |
| 22:18 | That's one of the things we'll chekc | |
| 22:18 | check | |
| 22:23 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 22:24 | eythian | hi |
| 22:25 | rambutan | hey eythian |
| 22:25 | wahanui | eythian is probably an expert bot trainer |
| 22:29 | wizzyrea | oh he's so much more than that. :P |
| 22:32 | rambutan | he seems to be a world traveler |
| 22:33 | eythian | I go around it at least once every 24 hours. |
| 22:36 | dani left #koha | |
| 22:40 | papa joined #koha | |
| 22:42 | wizzyrea | that's the sun dear. |
| 22:43 | oh wait lol. | |
| 22:43 | sh. | |
| 22:43 | no talky. | |
| 22:43 | I suppose you do go around the *axis* of the earth every 24 hours >.> | |
| 22:44 | * wizzyrea | just feels lucky not to be flung out into space. |
| 22:44 | wizzyrea | Thanks Gravity! |
| 22:45 | eythian | Geocentric, much? :) |
| 22:46 | wizzyrea | sh |
| 22:53 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 23:01 | dcook joined #koha | |
| 23:02 | eythian | http://youtu.be/hKNDml12Big |
| 23:03 | dcook | So I click on a "Braille" facet and the first book that comes up is illustrated... |
| 23:03 | jcamins | dcook: that's kind of ironic. |
| 23:03 | dcook | hehe |
| 23:04 | Actually, this catalogue is quite weird.. | |
| 23:05 | Braille is a subfacet of Book...but other items than just books have the Braille subfacet... | |
| 23:05 | Or rather, are retrieved by clicking the Braille subfacet | |
| 23:05 | wizzyrea | ah that is hilarious eythian |
| 23:05 | dcook | Book (14) Braille (26) |
| 23:05 | O_o | |
| 23:08 | Oh well. It's not Koha. I don't really care atm. | |
| 23:08 | jcamins | Heh. |
| 23:09 | dcook | Just realized the title of that "braille" book was "How to lie with statistics" |
| 23:09 | * dcook | looks around for the tv cameras |
| 23:11 | dcook | Aha...there is a braille version |
| 23:11 | But it doesn't show that edition when you click through from the braille facet... | |
| 23:11 | * dcook | shrugs |
| 23:26 | drnoe_away left #koha | |
| 23:32 | tcohen | mtompset: i've just attached a new, squashed version of my patches for bug 10733 |
| 23:32 | huginn` | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10733 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Memcached on package installs |
| 23:34 | tcohen | I fixed the namespace name as u suggested |
| 23:36 | jcamins | Wow. That trailer was great. |
| 23:38 | tcohen | is there one for life of brian? |
| 23:46 | mtj_ | hi all |
| 23:46 | * mtj_ | waves to #koha |
| 23:49 | mtj_ | i should hopefully be able to do some QA stuff today, if anyone has suggestions... |
| 23:55 | jcamins | Shari wants custard. Does anyone have any fast, foolproof stove-top custard recipes they recommend? |
| 23:56 | wizzyrea: by "does anyone" I mean, "does wizzyrea?" :) | |
| 23:56 | (if anyone else has a favorite recipe, I'd use that, too, I just think wizzyrea has made fast, foolproof stovetop custard before) |
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