IRC log for #koha, 2013-05-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:48 cait1 joined #koha
03:05 jenkins_koha Starting build #1166 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 5 days 13 hr ago)
04:18 Project Koha_master build #1166: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1166/
04:18 Starting build #118 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
05:01 Project Koha_3.10.x build #118: SUCCESS in 43 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.10.x/118/
05:01 * Lyon3 Team: Bug 8896: Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
05:01 * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 8896 QA Followup for regex
05:01 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8896 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha, Pushed to Stable , Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
05:01 jenkins_koha * David Cook: Bug 10156 - Fix usr/bin/perl path for get_report_social_data.pl
05:01 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10156 trivial, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Stable , Fix usr/bin/perl path for get_report_social_data.pl
05:02 jenkins_koha Starting build #313 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
05:39 Project Koha_3.8.x build #313: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/313/
05:39 David Cook: Bug 10156 - Fix usr/bin/perl path for get_report_social_data.pl
05:39 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10156 trivial, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Pushed to Stable , Fix usr/bin/perl path for get_report_social_data.pl
06:59 cait joined #koha
07:59 drojf joined #koha
08:39 eythian joined #koha
08:45 * magnuse waves
08:45 cait morning magnuse :)
08:45 magnuse guten morgen cait
09:06 wizzyrea joined #koha
09:08 trea joined #koha
09:38 drojf left #koha
14:13 talljoy joined #koha
14:32 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_7593' into 3.14-master <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]2d2904e09d23f3563> / Bug 7593 : QA followup : restores deleted line in C4::Acquisition <http://git.koha-community.org/[…]faff90fa9436c1003> / Bug 7593: Move orders on the destination record when merging 2 records <http://git.koha-community.org/
14:38 jenkins_koha Starting build #27 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:18 Project Koha_3.12.x build #27: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.12.x/27/
15:18 * Magnus Enger: Bug 10217 - Make sure direct links to detail views work when there is no session
15:18 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10201 - Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
15:18 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10201 [Follow-up] Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
15:18 * Owen Leonard: Bug 9679 - can't place hold from cart in CCSR
15:18 * Magnus Enger: Bug 10134 - set XSLT usage ON as default, for new Koha installs
15:18 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10225 - If an item isn't editable, don't show the onclick Edit/Delete menu
15:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10217 critical, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Pushed to Master , Make sure direct links to detail views work when there is no session
15:18 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10054 - When SingleBranchMode is enabled, allow superlibrarians to set logged in library
15:18 * Owen Leonard: Bug 9680 - cart aligned right in CCSR
15:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10201 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
15:18 jenkins_koha * Mathieu Saby: Bug 7593: Move orders on the destination record when merging 2 records
15:18 * Mathieu Saby: Bug 7593 : QA followup : restores deleted line in C4::Acquisition
15:18 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9679 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , can't place hold from cart in CCSR
15:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10134 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtj, Pushed to Master , set XSLT usage ON as default, for new Koha installs
15:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10225 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , If an item isn't editable, don't show the onclick Edit/Delete menu
15:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10054 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , When SingleBranchMode is enabled, allow superlibrarians to set logged in library
15:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9680 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , cart aligned right in CCSR
15:18 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7593 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , merging bib records loses connection to order line
15:19 jenkins_koha Starting build #1167 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 6 days 1 hr ago)
15:21 jcamins Woohoo!
15:23 cait you worreid for nothing ;)
15:26 jcamins Shari says I should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D[…]#De_re_coquinaria
15:26 In Latin.
15:26 cait oh well
15:26 latin?
15:27 jcamins This is because no one reads Latin out loud, and I've been reading this German cookbook out loud enthusiastically with the most staggeringly incorrect accent ever.
15:27 cait lol
15:27 then stop reading out loud!
15:27 or at leat record it so i can check your accent
15:27 jcamins It's easier to understand when you pronounce it.
15:28 And the accent is definitely wrong.
15:28 * cait still thinks she should check that
15:28 jcamins I can't decide how "-ch-" is pronounced for more than one word.
15:30 * cait recommends http://dict.leo.org/
15:30 jcamins Oh, sure, I could look it up.
15:30 But wouldn't that take the fun out of it? :P
15:31 One good thing about German: you can always identify the nouns.
15:31 And a lot of the verbs, since they're at the end of the sentence.
15:31 cait you make it sound so easy
15:32 jcamins And then the adjectives are easy because you any long words that are left are almost certainly adjectives. :P
15:32 cait lol
15:35 LBA joined #koha
16:29 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1167: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1167/
16:29 * Magnus Enger: Bug 10217 - Make sure direct links to detail views work when there is no session
16:29 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10201 - Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
16:29 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10201 [Follow-up] Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
16:30 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10217 critical, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Pushed to Master , Make sure direct links to detail views work when there is no session
16:30 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9679 - can't place hold from cart in CCSR
16:30 * Magnus Enger: Bug 10134 - set XSLT usage ON as default, for new Koha installs
16:30 * Owen Leonard: Bug 10225 - If an item isn't editable, don't show the onclick Edit/Delete menu
16:30 * Kyle M Hall: Bug 10054 - When SingleBranchMode is enabled, allow superlibrarians to set logged in library
16:30 * Owen Leonard: Bug 9680 - cart aligned right in CCSR
16:30 * Mathieu Saby: Bug 7593: Move orders on the destination record when merging 2 records
16:30 * Mathieu Saby: Bug 7593 : QA followup : restores deleted line in C4::Acquisition
16:30 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10201 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9679 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , can't place hold from cart in CCSR
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10134 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtj, Pushed to Master , set XSLT usage ON as default, for new Koha installs
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10225 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , If an item isn't editable, don't show the onclick Edit/Delete menu
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10054 minor, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , When SingleBranchMode is enabled, allow superlibrarians to set logged in library
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9680 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , cart aligned right in CCSR
16:30 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7593 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , merging bib records loses connection to order line
17:28 cait hmmm
19:27 jops joined #koha
19:28 jops hi at all
19:29 jcamins Hello.
19:30 jops I have just installed koha 3.10 on Centos 6.3 and this is my instance http://biblio2.berneri.apiedelibero.net
19:30 I have a problem with the advanced search
19:30 jcamins Very cool! I hope you documented how you got it working?
19:31 jops yes, I did...more less...:)
19:31 jcamins People would be very glad to have the instructions on the wiki.
19:31 What problem are you encountering?
19:34 jops If I search with the normal search "kropotkin" I have no problem, but If i do the same search in the advanced search choosing "Location and availability"-> "Library": Circolo Anarchico Camillo Berneri I have no result
19:34 jcamins Ah, yes.
19:34 Availability limits do not work.
19:35 jops why?
19:36 jcamins For a while there were technical limitations that made working availability limits impossible, and now it's just that no one has funded the work to fix it.
19:36 If you don't check the "available" box you can search by library, though.
19:36 cait jcamins: limiting by library should work I think?
19:37 jcamins cait: yes, but not by "available."
19:37 Oh, never mind.
19:37 wahanui Good, I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't understand, and probably never will, being a bot.
19:37 cait ah right
19:37 jcamins jops: sorry, I read that as you were choosing "Location" and "Availability."
19:37 But actually, you meant that *under* the heading "Location and Availability," you were choosing your library.
19:38 Okay.
19:38 That should work fine.
19:38 Do you use MARC21 or UNIMARC?
19:38 jops UNIMARC
19:39 jcamins Did you create items?
19:39 jops Yep, only one
19:39 jcamins And when you do a search by title, do you see that item in the search results?
19:39 jops I try
19:44 the problem there is only if I choose the Library
19:45 If h
19:45 IIf search by title in the advanced search without choosing the Library, I have the result
19:45 jcamins Oh, wait.
19:45 You shared a link.
19:45 I can try.
19:46 jops damn..the battery of my laptop
19:46 i came back soon
19:46 jops left #koha
20:12 jops joined #koha
20:13 jops i'm back, sorry
20:14 :)
20:14 jcamins I took a look, and it looks like there's a UNIMARC-specific problem.
20:14 If you come by during the week, someone who uses UNIMARC might be able to offer suggestions.
20:15 Because everything is configured correctly.
20:15 jops I could show u a strange error in log
20:15 jcamins That would be useful.
20:15 No guarantees, of course. I never use UNIMARC.
20:16 My UNIMARC installation has been broken for months, and no amount of reinstalling has fixed it.
20:16 jops [Sun May 12 15:48:00 2013] [error] [client 72.225.186.193] [Sun May 12 15:48:00 2013] opac-search.pl: Use of uninitialized value $limit_desc in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/share/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac/opac-search.pl line 619., referer: http://biblio2.berneri.apiedel[…]pl?biblionumber=2
20:16 [Sun May 12 15:48:00 2013] [error] [client 72.225.186.193] [Sun May 12 15:48:00 2013] opac-search.pl: Use of uninitialized value in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac/opac-search.pl line 830., referer: http://biblio2.berneri.apiedel[…]pl?biblionumber=2
20:16 [Sun May 12 15:48:12 2013] [error] [client 72.225.186.193] [Sun May 12 15:48:12 2013] opac-search.pl: Use of uninitialized value $_ in pattern match (m//) at /usr/share/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac/opac-search.pl line 34., referer: http://biblio2.berneri.apiedel[…]arch.pl?q=BIBBERN
20:16 I don't know if there is a correlation...
20:16 jcamins Those are probably nothing to worry about.
20:17 kathryn joined #koha
20:18 cait i have those too - i think they are harmless
20:18 jops ah ok...
20:22 anyway thaks a lot!
20:23 jcamins There are a lot more UNIMARC users around during the week.
20:23 Actually, a lot more people generally, so you might have better luck then.
20:23 And the mailing lists are also a good way to reach UNIMARCers.
20:23 wahanui okay, jcamins.
20:24 jcamins the mailing lists?
20:24 wahanui the mailing lists are at http://koha-community.org/supp[…]ha-mailing-lists/ or a good way to reach UNIMARCers.
20:24 jcamins wahanui: forget the mailing lists
20:24 wahanui jcamins: I forgot mailing lists
20:24 jcamins wahanui: the mailing lists are http://koha-community.org/supp[…]ha-mailing-lists/
20:24 wahanui OK, jcamins.
20:24 jcamins the mailing lists?
20:24 wahanui the mailing lists are http://koha-community.org/supp[…]ha-mailing-lists/
20:26 magnuse cait++ for doing lots of qa today!
20:27 cait thx :)
20:27 magnuse 14?
20:27 wahanui 14 is, like, fine by me
20:27 cait hm not sure
20:27 i think i started at 22
20:27 jcamins I have some great patches ready for signing off!
20:27 Bug 10230
20:27 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10230 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Match points do not work with authorities
20:27 jcamins Also the other one I just posted.
20:27 cait and i need a psychic to understand this code
20:28 jcamins ::hinthint::
20:28 And... I think I'll add a record matching rule.
20:29 magnuse 22 - 5
20:29 22-5
20:30 17 then
20:32 g'night #koha - have fun tomorrow while i am away!
20:34 cait good night magnuse
20:39 jops joined #koha
21:37 jcamins bug 10094
21:37 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10094 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , koha-list should have an --disabled option
21:40 jcamins bug 10100
21:40 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10100 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, adrien.saurat, Signed Off , OPAC News dates need an CSS handle (class)
21:54 jcamins bug 7892
21:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7892 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Signed Off , on staged marc record management open in tab
21:56 jcamins bug 9735
21:56 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Choose language using URL parameters in any page
21:56 jcamins It would have.
21:57 bug 9755
21:57 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9755 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Record merge code needs to be refactored
21:58 jcamins bug 10094
21:58 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10094 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , koha-list should have an --disabled option
21:59 eythian hi
21:59 jcamins We were just talking about you.
22:00 And how you should feel free to pass qa on packaging-related patches.
22:00 eythian oh yup
22:01 cait and speaking of packaging related patches...
22:01 there are quite a few nice ones in the needs sign off queue
22:02 bug 10159, bug 10157, 10146
22:02 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10159 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , koha-rebuild-zebra error handling
22:02 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10157 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , koha-email-enable error handling
22:02 cait bug 10146
22:02 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]_bug.cgi?id=10146 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , koha-stop-zebra error handling
22:19 tweetbot ..june 21-22"
22:20 jcamins @later tell mtj Could you teach tweetbot to ignore line breaks in tweets, so that it doesn't clutter the logs?
22:20 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
22:22 * rangi has the disks from his old server mounted, i should have the logs back up this morning
22:22 wizzyrea rangi++
22:23 jcamins: lol re: your later
22:23 jcamins No, seriously, people will learn and start spamming.
22:25 rangi !jenkins build koha_master now
22:25 jenkins_koha rangi: job koha_master build scheduled now
22:25 Starting build #1168 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1164 6 days 8 hr ago)
22:33 rangi mtj: can you ping me when you are about?
22:44 mtj heya rangi
22:44 ping ping
22:44 rangi id like to get a dump of the recent stuff from alohalog, so i can sync up the missing stuff
22:45 | 1251270 | #koha   | 2013-05-10 |         | 1368160744 | cait joined #koha |    0 |          0 |
22:45 thats the last line i have
22:45 mtj cool, ill stick a dump on the web somewhere
22:45 rangi thanks
22:48 mtj jcamins, i'll take a look at removing newlines from tweetbot, too
22:48 jcamins mtj: thanks.
22:49 mtj hopefully just a regex
22:49 jcamins Not exactly high-priority, but it only took a week for someone to realize they could spam Google with the Koha hashtag when tweetbot was first installed.
22:54 mtj yeah, agreed - no probs…
22:55 eythian bugzilla is down?
22:55 rangi give it a sec
22:55 eythian OK
22:55 rangi just getting irc running there
22:55 eythian back again :)
22:56 rangi yep just had to change nginx config
23:00 jops joined #koha
23:07 papa joined #koha
23:11 dcook joined #koha
23:11 dcook morning #koha
23:26 45 authors for Koha master in 2013. Not too shabby
23:28 jcamins Addictive, those statistics, aren't they?
23:28 dcook Maybe :p
23:28 jcamins I think I'm going to break 1k by 3.12.0!
23:28 Helped along greatly by the fact that I'm pushing a half dozen patches I just attached, because they fix bugs that make me unhappy.
23:28 dcook Uff da! Nice one, jcamins
23:28 hehe
23:29 A bug is a bug is a bug
23:29 jcamins Yeah, and I only patch bugs that get in my way.
23:29 Or my clients' ways, obviously.
23:29 dcook Mmm, fair enough
23:30 We all have finite time
23:30 Alas, after this z39.50 auth search, I think I won't have much time for Koha for a little while :/
23:31 jcamins Don't I know it!
23:31 dcook Although I did get Squeeze installed on my new computer when I had a couple hours free on Saturday...
23:31 Torn between figuring out why the sound won't work and just going ahead to install Koha via packages
23:31 * dcook is a sucker for problems
23:32 jcamins The problem is pulseaudio.
23:32 ^^ always a safe bet
23:32 eythian can't say I've had a pulseaudio problem in a couple of years now.
23:33 dcook Pulseaudio was mentioned on a few forums for sure
23:33 jcamins eythian: and you've had sound problems since then?
23:33 eythian No
23:33 Well
23:33 jcamins Told you.
23:33 eythian I've forgotten that it was in mute, if that counts.
23:33 jcamins If there is a problem with sound, it is pulseaudio's fault.
23:34 dcook eythian: lol
23:34 rangi http://irc.koha-community.org/  back, just need to get the dump from mason, and add the missing bits then i can turn the bot back on
23:34 cjh \o/
23:34 rangi++
23:34 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1168: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 9 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1168/
23:34 dcook jcamins: I haven't looked into it too extensively yet, but I wonder if there are some other issues as well
23:35 jcamins Like pulseaudio problem 1, pulseaudio problem 2, pulseaudio problem 3, etc.?
23:35 Could very well be.
23:35 Hm.
23:35 dcook lol
23:36 * jcamins contemplates the revert button.
23:37 rangi ok fixed the xisbn ones
23:37 checking the acquiistion one
23:37 jcamins I think that one's real.
23:37 rangi yep thats a reeal one
23:37 ok 5 - GetOrdersByBiblionumber : no argument, return undef
23:37 not ok 6 - GetOrdersByBiblionumber : result is an array isa ARRAY
23:37 #   Failed test 'GetOrdersByBiblionumber : result is an array isa ARRAY'
23:38 either the test needs updating or the code is broken
23:38 jcamins cait tested again after I said I thought there was a problem, and had it, but we were not 100% sure that we had working environments, so decided to let jenkins make the final determination.
23:38 It's the test.
23:38 rangi maybe send an email, you have a couple of days to fix the test or we have to revert?
23:39 jcamins Yeah, I think that's what I'll do.
23:40 It's a new test.
23:40 sivoais joined #koha
23:42 eythian clearly we need better test coverage of our test cases.
23:42 rangi heh
23:43 jcamins What we need is for people to not make sweeping database changes that don't work.
23:44 Acquisitions and serials are totally unusable for me, but unfortunately I didn't back them up recently enough before the changes for restoring a backup to seem like an appealing idea.
23:44 After 3.12 is out I'll take a bit of time to fix things up.
23:49 * dcook loves that moment when you realize that your changes are in git stash and that you don't have a mountain of work to do after all...
23:49 wizzyrea I find serials and acquisitons, overall, annoying to use.
23:50 jcamins Serials and acquisitions, overall, make me want to kill things.
23:50 eythian the workflows are quite odd sometimes
23:50 dcook Agreed. Mind you, they're almost always the most annoying part of an ILS/LMS
23:50 wizzyrea i agree there - but it just seems so... obtuse.
23:50 eythian really, it needs someone who cares enough to plan it from the point of view of use cases, it's a complex set of requirements.
23:50 dcook True. Sometimes, I assume there must be a better way with acquisitions..
23:51 jcamins DEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
23:51 wizzyrea !
23:51 dcook eythian: The tough part with serials is that publishers and librarians have different goals
23:51 jcamins Sorry, that's what happens when I think about serials and acquisitions.
23:51 * druthb gives jcamins a Valium.
23:51 jcamins I warned you.
23:51 dcook lol
23:51 * druthb gives him another, just in case.
23:51 wizzyrea actually I care more about serials :P
23:51 eythian wahanui: jcamins is <reply>ask him about serials and/or acquisitions.
23:51 wahanui ...but jcamins is RM for 3.12, and just about the only one crazy enough to work on major projects in both authorities and search.|brilliant|too young to be the President of the United States.  Which is a pity, because he had the votes at the 3.12 election.|very, very irascible.|the brilliant and irascible President of the United States.|<reply> 'scuse me while I cue up "Hail to the Chief!"|a spoilsport...
23:51 eythian wahanui: jcamins is also <reply>ask him about serials and/or acquisitions.
23:51 wahanui i'm sorry, but that's too long, eythian
23:51 eythian ...
23:51 jcamins eythian: bwahaha!
23:52 wizzyrea acquisitions is more polished than serials, imo
23:52 dcook O_O
23:52 jcamins wizzyrea: are we talking about the same acquisitions module?
23:52 * dcook doesn't know enough folks who actually use acquisitions to offer an informed opinion
23:52 wizzyrea it really depends on *how* you use it
23:52 and if your workflow goes along with it's workflow.
23:53 * wizzyrea guesses that your workflow doesn't jive with it.
23:54 jcamins Generally not, no.

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