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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:03 | Soupermanito joined #koha | |
| 00:25 | talljoy left #koha | |
| 00:49 | wizzyrea | |
| 00:49 | j' | |
| 00:49 | m ;jk[; ]' | |
| 00:49 | ; [ | |
| 00:51 | Judit | hi rea, having fun? |
| 00:51 | wizzyrea | that would be "3 year old typing detected" |
| 00:52 | rangi | heh |
| 00:53 | mtj | peeps.. any idea when 3.4.7 is being released? |
| 00:53 | ... with the security patches? | |
| 00:54 | rangi | 7th december |
| 00:54 | mtj | ah, i just missed chris_n :/ |
| 00:54 | ok, thanks chris | |
| 01:10 | melia left #koha | |
| 01:22 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7278] In the items table, make items.materials of type text, and show its contents at circulation <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7278> |
| 01:22 | Judit | can you change the timezone in koha? i dont seem to find it in the manual |
| 01:22 | rangi | no |
| 01:22 | it runs on the servers timezone | |
| 01:23 | Judit | thanks |
| 01:23 | rangi | changing it in koha would be messy |
| 01:23 | cos the crons will still run on system time | |
| 01:23 | Judit | hm |
| 01:23 | rangi | and all the emails etc |
| 01:23 | Judit | i see |
| 01:24 | if the server time is back in USA and the library is in AU, it could mess up even the circulation rules | |
| 01:25 | it could mean almost a day delay | |
| 01:25 | rangi | yes |
| 01:25 | so you would want to switch ethe server time to be AU | |
| 01:25 | wizzyrea | probably no big deal really |
| 01:28 | Judit | you just need to remember when browsing the logs that the time is behind |
| 01:28 | oki | |
| 01:29 | wizzyrea | well there's one for the log |
| 01:29 | I just told my 3 year old "no, we don't ever ever ever put our gum in our ears!!!" | |
| 01:29 | Judit | :D so he put it up in his nose? |
| 01:29 | wizzyrea | not yet! |
| 01:36 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 01:36 | druthb | o/ |
| 01:38 | wizzyrea | \o |
| 01:38 | druthb | :D hi, wizzyrea! |
| 01:38 | wizzyrea | hiyas :) |
| 01:40 | trea joined #koha | |
| 01:40 | druthb | hi, trea! |
| 01:41 | trea | hi druthb |
| 01:41 | how goes it? | |
| 01:42 | druthb | giggling like a maniac. |
| 01:48 | * BobB | waves to druthb |
| 01:48 | druthb | hi, BobB! :D how's things down your way? |
| 01:48 | rangi | hi druthb |
| 01:49 | druthb | hi, rangi! :D |
| 01:50 | BobB | Hi Ruth, all good here. |
| 01:51 | druthb | :D Good to hear! |
| 01:54 | BobB | Its near the end of the year now - it gets busy. |
| 01:54 | Australia shuts for January. | |
| 01:54 | Except a couple of libraries want to go live whilst the rest of the country is quiet. | |
| 01:54 | :) | |
| 01:59 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 01:59 | rangi | hmmm |
| 02:00 | @later tell paul_p shouldnt the db version in master by 3.07 ? not 3.06 | |
| 02:00 | huginn | rangi: The operation succeeded. |
| 02:19 | lizzy joined #koha | |
| 02:19 | lizzy | hmm indeed |
| 02:20 | rangi | heh |
| 02:20 | lizzy | hrmph |
| 02:22 | druthb joined #koha | |
| 02:23 | * druthb | is kind of irritated to discover that there are no Koha contributors on this list: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/[…]of_women_in_FLOSS May have to correct that. |
| 02:30 | rangi | ibeardslee: https://twitter.com/#!/taratj/[…]42067720719048705 |
| 02:40 | brendan_ripon joined #koha | |
| 02:41 | brendan_ripon | evening |
| 02:42 | rangi | hiya brendan_ripon |
| 02:42 | brendan_ripon | yo rangs - what's happening |
| 02:44 | rangi | same old same old |
| 02:45 | * chris_n | hears the pillow calling |
| 02:47 | * brendan_ripon | loves training libraries - that's where it's at |
| 02:52 | druthb | hi, brendan_ripon! :) |
| 02:55 | brendan_ripon | yo druthb |
| 02:56 | * brendan_ripon | is on mibbit - since I'm blocked by the hotel |
| 02:56 | druthb | gotta love hotel wifi. when it works, at all. |
| 02:56 | just think...it's better than Vihang's! | |
| 02:57 | Judit | it is usually easier and cheaper to buy a sim card and use itin a unlocked phone |
| 02:57 | and share the network | |
| 02:58 | that is what we always do | |
| 02:58 | rangi | brendan_ripon: hotel blocks ssh? |
| 02:58 | Judit | once we found a hotel with - "free-WiFi"- it meant that you could browse the site of the hotel for free :D |
| 03:01 | brendan_ripon | ports above 6000 are blocked |
| 03:07 | F3RHD joined #koha | |
| 04:30 | Judit1 joined #koha | |
| 04:32 | stuartyeates joined #koha | |
| 04:45 | rangi | back |
| 04:45 | on the bus | |
| 04:58 | Judit joined #koha | |
| 05:06 | Oak joined #koha | |
| 05:06 | Oak | kia or a#koha |
| 05:07 | uh oh | |
| 05:07 | hello druthb :) | |
| 05:07 | rangi | |
| 05:10 | druthb | hi, Oak! :D |
| 05:10 | Oak | :) |
| 05:11 | cait joined #koha | |
| 05:20 | rangi | hi Oak |
| 05:20 | morning cait | |
| 05:20 | Oak | :) |
| 05:20 | hello miss cait | |
| 05:20 | cait | hey rangi and mr Oak :) |
| 07:02 | magnus_afk | kia ora #koha |
| 07:02 | cait | morning magnuse :) |
| 07:03 | magnus_afk | morgen cait |
| 07:03 | cait | :) |
| 07:03 | magnus_afk | wow, 1st of december |
| 07:04 | Oak | magnus |
| 07:04 | magnus_afk | Oak |
| 07:04 | cait | yeah it is |
| 07:04 | Oak | yes. another year. |
| 07:04 | cait | scary |
| 07:05 | Oak | scary, yes, which reminds me, how do people start their presentation? |
| 07:05 | cait | hm |
| 07:05 | Oak | starting is weird. |
| 07:06 | cait | telling them a bit about myself most of the time |
| 07:06 | Oak | once you get going... then it's fine |
| 07:06 | it's rude to talk about oneself | |
| 07:06 | kidding | |
| 07:06 | cait | hehe |
| 07:06 | Oak | :) |
| 07:06 | cait | and welcome, nice you are here... will be talking about ... today |
| 07:07 | Oak | oh thank you, i'm happy to be here |
| 07:07 | kidding, again | |
| 07:07 | got it | |
| 07:07 | Hello and welcome. good. | |
| 07:07 | cait | talking about me = librarian, work at BSZ... what do I do there |
| 07:08 | things like that :) | |
| 07:08 | not about my hobbies and my favourite dish | |
| 07:08 | Oak | i was just kidding cait :-) |
| 07:08 | cait | not really awake yet |
| 07:09 | Oak | it would be fun to hear you talk about your hobbies and favorite dish, though |
| 07:09 | any day of the year | |
| 07:09 | cait | koha and almost everything that is not cauliflower :) |
| 07:10 | Oak | :) |
| 07:11 | okay me go now. | |
| 07:11 | cait | ok, bye Oak :) |
| 07:11 | Oak | later. will tell about today'a adventure :) |
| 07:11 | thanks | |
| 07:25 | alex_a1 | morning cait |
| 07:25 | cait | morning alex_a1 :) |
| 07:28 | alex_a | voila |
| 07:32 | cait | asaurat++ |
| 07:32 | just finished testing 6893 - works great | |
| 07:33 | magnus_afk | bug 6893 |
| 07:33 | wahanui | bug 6893 is evil :( |
| 07:33 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list |
| 07:40 | cait | wahanui: no longer! |
| 07:40 | wahanui | cait: excuse me? |
| 07:40 | cait | wahanui: bug 6893 is no longer that evil |
| 07:40 | wahanui | ...but bug 6893 is evil :(... |
| 07:40 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6893 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, adrien.saurat, ASSIGNED , Order from suggestion does not remove suggestion from 'accepted' list |
| 07:40 | cait | forget bug 6893 |
| 07:40 | wahanui | cait: I forgot bug 6893 |
| 07:51 | cait | bbiab |
| 07:51 | cait left #koha | |
| 08:01 | paul_p joined #koha | |
| 08:01 | magnus_afk | kia ora paul_p |
| 08:02 | rangi | hi paul_p |
| 08:02 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 08:03 | paul_p | hi magnus_afk & rangi (here just for a few minuts, after, heading for a meeting) |
| 08:04 | reiveune joined #koha | |
| 08:04 | magnuse | have a nice meeting paul_p! |
| 08:04 | Guillaume1 joined #koha | |
| 08:04 | reiveune | hello |
| 08:05 | asaurat | hi! ! |
| 08:05 | sophie_m joined #koha | |
| 08:05 | Judit joined #koha | |
| 08:06 | magnuse | bonjour! |
| 08:10 | julian_m joined #koha | |
| 08:10 | julian_m | hi |
| 08:17 | magnuse | stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy! |
| 08:17 | kf joined #koha | |
| 08:18 | magnuse | wieder guten morgen kf |
| 08:18 | kf | another good morning to you too :) |
| 08:18 | magnuse | yay |
| 08:18 | rangi | wie gehts kf? |
| 08:18 | * paul_p | just requested a link to DL LLK 4.8 Will report you about the results... |
| 08:18 | kf | gut :) |
| 08:19 | paul_p | time to leave for my meeting. See you soon |
| 08:19 | kf | paul_p: ? |
| 08:19 | rangi | paul_p: its all in github |
| 08:19 | paul_p | really ? it's not written anywhere. |
| 08:20 | kf | ... and it's really not that interesting |
| 08:20 | rangi | yeah, not much diff to 4.2 |
| 08:20 | kf | but it's 4.8 |
| 08:20 | not 4.4... | |
| 08:20 | * kf | shakes her head |
| 08:20 | rangi | 3.6 kf |
| 08:20 | kf | hm? |
| 08:21 | rangi | its all about confusing |
| 08:21 | but meh | |
| 08:21 | not important | |
| 08:21 | kf | ah ok. |
| 08:24 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 08:29 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 08:30 | francharb | morning |
| 08:30 | kf | hi francharb |
| 08:30 | magnuse | hiya francharb and juan_sieira |
| 08:31 | yay nb-NO opac is 100% translated again | |
| 08:31 | stupid norwegian strings getting themselves marked as fuzzy! | |
| 08:31 | rangi | woo whoo |
| 08:31 | magnuse | only 81% left on the staff side... gah! |
| 08:31 | kf | woohooo! |
| 08:31 | magnuse++ | |
| 08:32 | * magnuse | considers campaining for adopting english as the official language in norway |
| 08:33 | rangi | hehe |
| 08:33 | juan_sieira | hi magnuse |
| 08:33 | magnuse | wassup juan_sieira? |
| 08:34 | juan_sieira | none |
| 08:35 | keep on working | |
| 08:35 | magnuse | yay, that's the spirit! ;-) |
| 08:36 | juan_sieira | I just arrived now to office |
| 08:36 | I need some coffee to start... | |
| 08:39 | magnuse | my goal for the day: an empty inbox... |
| 08:40 | Judit | go magnus, go! |
| 08:40 | you can do it | |
| 08:40 | kf | magnuse: you believe in miracles? |
| 08:42 | magnuse | well, the plan is to solve/answer what i can do now, and move the rest to my todo list |
| 08:42 | thanks Judit | |
| 08:42 | kf | :) |
| 08:44 | rangi | i currently only have 488 mails |
| 08:44 | kf | magnuse: i was not very supportive... sorry |
| 08:45 | for me it really depends on the folder | |
| 08:45 | rangi | thats my inbox |
| 08:45 | magnuse | kf: yes, i did make a note of you non-supportiveness ;-) |
| 08:45 | kf | uoh |
| 08:45 | rangi | 9971 currently in my koha folder |
| 08:45 | magnuse | i have 22 threads to go through, then it's empty |
| 08:45 | kf | inbox at 33 today... but i have todo folders |
| 08:46 | magnuse | yeah, i have 370 unread *threads* in my "koha tech" folder, mostly patches and bugzilla updates |
| 08:58 | rangi | 3/ws 18 |
| 08:59 | hmm | |
| 09:00 | kf_mtg | ? |
| 09:01 | rangi | typing fail |
| 09:26 | paul_away joined #koha | |
| 09:32 | rangi | @wunder wellington nz |
| 09:32 | huginn | rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (10:00 PM NZDT on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Rising). |
| 09:36 | kf_mtg | @wunder Konstanz |
| 09:36 | huginn | kf_mtg: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 4.9°C (10:35 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 97%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.28 in 1025.3 hPa (Rising). |
| 09:53 | magnuse | @wunder boo |
| 09:53 | huginn | magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0°C (10:20 AM CET on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 28.94 in 980 hPa (Steady). |
| 09:53 | magnuse | yay |
| 10:12 | Brooke joined #koha | |
| 10:12 | Brooke | 0/ |
| 10:14 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 10:19 | Judit joined #koha | |
| 10:22 | magnuse | o/ |
| 10:23 | Brooke | :D |
| 10:35 | kf | hi Brooke - go to bed ;) |
| 10:35 | Brooke | NU! |
| 10:36 | It's 5.35 here. That's uh, not even early if I'm lead to believe our meeting schedule is decent. :P | |
| 10:36 | kf | hehe ok |
| 10:36 | but today is not a meeting? | |
| 10:36 | * Brooke | hops |
| 10:36 | Brooke | nope |
| 10:46 | * Brooke | suspects that no one in Horowhenua turns in before 10. |
| 10:52 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 10:54 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 11:00 | Brooke | bananacremepie++ |
| 11:42 | francharb | 0/ Brooke! |
| 11:42 | ;^) | |
| 11:42 | time for lunch! | |
| 11:43 | Brooke | rats |
| 12:14 | syed joined #koha | |
| 12:14 | syed | hi all |
| 12:14 | Brooke | howdy |
| 12:14 | wahanui | what's up, Brooke |
| 12:16 | syed | I have "placehold" a book on OPAC which has only 1 copy ... but the same book still available to other OPAC user? |
| 12:19 | Brooke | I think it stays available until the Librarian fetches it and places a hold on it. Unless they finagle though, you ought to stay first in the holds queue though. |
| 12:19 | kf | syed: it still displays as available, until you go and get it and return it |
| 12:19 | what Brooke said | |
| 12:22 | jwagner joined #koha | |
| 12:29 | syed | Brooke: kf: If I placed hold any book from OPAC... is there any option that the same book will show "on hold" to other OPAC user |
| 12:29 | kf | no |
| 12:29 | syed | ok |
| 12:30 | kf | hm |
| 12:30 | or perhaps | |
| 12:30 | no, I think there isn't but you might still want to check the hold related system preferences | |
| 12:31 | syed | kf: let me try 1st to fetch this book through librarian (as brooke: said) |
| 12:37 | chris_n | @wunder 28334 |
| 12:37 | huginn | chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 0.0°C (7:15 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Windchill: -2.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Rising). |
| 12:38 | chris_n | heh, humidity... not |
| 12:38 | kf | hi chris_n |
| 12:40 | NateC joined #koha | |
| 12:40 | Brooke | oi Nate |
| 12:43 | jcamins | Good morning, #koha. |
| 12:43 | chris_n | g'morning/afternoon kf |
| 12:44 | NateC | morning Brooke! |
| 12:44 | * chris_n | hands jcamins coffee |
| 12:44 | NateC | morning jcamins |
| 12:44 | chris_n | and anyone else who would like some |
| 12:44 | NateC | and everyone else too! |
| 12:46 | * jcamins | sips the coffee from chris_n. |
| 12:48 | * chris_n | reads the mail |
| 12:49 | kf | can I get hot chocolate? |
| 12:52 | * Brooke | gives Cait some hot chocolate. |
| 12:52 | * chris_n | hands over some truffles |
| 12:52 | chris_n | and maybe a chocolate donut or two :) |
| 12:53 | ok, off to teach algebra | |
| 12:53 | * Brooke | posits that chris_n is also prolly a Yorkshireman at heart ;) |
| 12:53 | Brooke | cheers |
| 12:53 | chris_n | :) |
| 12:55 | jcamins | Heh. ".not-a-LibLime-fake" |
| 12:56 | kf | chris_n++ :) |
| 12:56 | jcamins | cheese++ |
| 12:56 | Brooke | feck cheese |
| 12:57 | wine. | |
| 12:57 | we're running Koha Syrah. | |
| 12:57 | kf | cookie flavours :) |
| 12:57 | jcamins | Koha Bordeaux 3.8.0. |
| 12:57 | kf | that's much more logical for us than wine or cheese |
| 12:57 | Brooke | I can be persuaded to run cookie flavours. |
| 12:57 | jcamins | Koha Gouda 3.8.0. |
| 12:57 | kf | that's stinky |
| 12:57 | cookies on the opposite... | |
| 12:57 | Brooke | Bordeaux sounds better |
| 12:58 | but cookies ARE more fun. | |
| 12:58 | kf | or sweets in general :) yum. hehe |
| 12:58 | jcamins | Koha Oatmeal-chocolate chip 3.8.0. |
| 12:58 | kf | yeah, and suddenly you want to update! |
| 12:58 | Brooke | we could honour the country that hosted KohaCon that year |
| 12:58 | jcamins | lol |
| 12:58 | Brooke | in naming the sweets locally |
| 12:58 | kf | also a nice plan |
| 12:59 | what for india? | |
| 12:59 | Brooke | Koha Gulab Jamun |
| 12:59 | kf | huh? |
| 12:59 | picture? | |
| 13:00 | jcamins | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulab_jamun |
| 13:00 | Brooke | http://www.manjulaskitchen.com[…]2/23/gulab-jamun/ |
| 13:01 | kf | looks yummy enough |
| 13:01 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L[…]eets_and_desserts | |
| 13:02 | Koha Lassi? | |
| 13:02 | Brooke | you're back to drinks :P |
| 13:02 | kf | it's in the list of sweets |
| 13:02 | it counds | |
| 13:02 | coutns | |
| 13:02 | counts | |
| 13:07 | asaurat joined #koha | |
| 13:13 | collum joined #koha | |
| 13:13 | libsysguy1 joined #koha | |
| 13:14 | libsysguy1 | so I was doing some early morning domain name browsing and I saw some interesting dn's for sale related to Koha |
| 13:15 | Ex: freekoha.com, bestkoha.com, and thekoha.com | |
| 13:18 | secondly I thought that .org was only for non-profit organizations | |
| 13:18 | Brooke | nope that's an Interwebs myth |
| 13:18 | libsysguy1 | hmm |
| 13:19 | Brooke | it was intended for non profit use initially |
| 13:19 | but not everyone with one is non profit. | |
| 13:19 | indeed. MITRE was the first with it | |
| 13:19 | and they're a defence contractor | |
| 13:19 | so | |
| 13:20 | libsysguy1 | well thats sad then... |
| 13:21 | i wonder if koha.com would consider selling | |
| 13:21 | Brooke | it gets sticky, but it's not like there's someone at the registrar's going "Hey buddy, hand over your 501c3 paperwork" |
| 13:21 | and even if there were, not all 501c3s are created equal ;) | |
| 13:21 | libsysguy1 | yeah but i was thinking there might be a tip line ;) |
| 13:25 | kf | hi asaurat :) |
| 13:25 | asaurat | hi! |
| 13:26 | kf | asaurat++ |
| 13:26 | asaurat | I saw the updates about our bug :D |
| 13:26 | thx =) | |
| 13:26 | kf | tested the fix for suggestions you did and it works very nicely :) |
| 13:26 | I also might have given some pointers to other related bugs... | |
| 13:26 | :P | |
| 13:26 | oleonard joined #koha | |
| 13:26 | Brooke | 0/ |
| 13:26 | asaurat | yep, saw that, you don't lose any time ;) good! |
| 13:27 | kf | I think we could consider the status thing working perfectly if it would go into AVAILABLE sometime |
| 13:27 | hehe | |
| 13:27 | hope you don't mind :) still very happy that this part works now! | |
| 13:28 | asaurat | is there already an AVAILABLE status used somewhere, or would it be something to be created ? I don't remember that |
| 13:28 | kf | it's in the templates |
| 13:29 | I am not sure how much of that has been implemented :( | |
| 13:29 | asaurat | ok |
| 13:29 | kf | but I found traces of it |
| 13:29 | so it seems to me like it was intended | |
| 13:29 | and we are supposed to send out letters when things get available | |
| 13:29 | asaurat | seems logical indeed, I'll take a look |
| 13:29 | jcamins | Koha ash-covered goat cheese 3.10.0? |
| 13:29 | kf | we have notice templates, and available shows up in the template for suggestions |
| 13:29 | but I no not much more than that | |
| 13:29 | no = know | |
| 13:30 | jcamins: Koha cha cham 3.6 | |
| 13:30 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chom-chom | |
| 13:32 | paul_away joined #koha | |
| 13:32 | kf | hi paul_away |
| 13:34 | libsysguy1 | I know the community doesn't own any money but has anybody contacted koha.com to see how much they would want for their domain? |
| 13:36 | oleonard | I don't think that ever works out well |
| 13:36 | kf | I don't think so |
| 13:36 | asaurat | maybe could they surrender it to us if we beat them in a hockey game |
| 13:36 | libsysguy1 | hehe |
| 13:36 | kf | koha.de belongs to a publisher |
| 13:36 | asaurat: rugby! | |
| 13:36 | libsysguy1 | well I used to work for a company that dealt in domains |
| 13:36 | and honestly sometimes it was worth the call | |
| 13:37 | their whois record shows a public contact | |
| 13:37 | asaurat | well, that's a hockey team and we have a project from new zealand, they will refuse any rugby game I'm afraid ;) |
| 13:43 | ago43 joined #koha | |
| 13:45 | trea joined #koha | |
| 13:45 | Brooke | they had the trade mark to Koha in the US for like forever |
| 13:45 | so I don't think they'll fork over the domain. | |
| 13:46 | plus | |
| 13:46 | it's not like anyone would be confused by their website. | |
| 13:46 | kf | asaurat: ok, that makes sense then :) |
| 13:47 | libsysguy1 | Brooke you mean the hockey team? |
| 13:47 | Brooke | yep |
| 13:48 | Callender joined #koha | |
| 13:48 | JesseM joined #koha | |
| 13:49 | Brooke | It's theoretically abandoned, but it wouldn't surprise me if they reactivated at some point |
| 13:49 | http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/sho[…]e=4001:5l2e23.2.1 | |
| 13:50 | libsysguy1 | i see the wordmark on Koha from Metavore |
| 13:50 | i assume they were bought by ptfs | |
| 13:50 | kf | hm |
| 13:50 | Brooke | yep Metavore is LibLime's real name |
| 13:50 | libsysguy1 | thus ptfs now owns that mark |
| 13:50 | kf | ah |
| 13:51 | libsysguy1 | Would anybody be opposed to me shooting the maintainer an email just to see what his price was? |
| 13:51 | Brooke | personally, I'd just leave them alone |
| 13:51 | kf | the hockey team? |
| 13:51 | libsysguy1 | yeah |
| 13:52 | kf | yeah, I would think leve them |
| 13:52 | libsysguy1 | ok |
| 13:52 | asaurat | libsysguy1: try to look poor |
| 13:52 | libsysguy1 | hehe i can do that…im in college :p |
| 13:52 | Brooke | where else would they host their hockey site? |
| 13:52 | and why? | |
| 13:52 | oleonard | Yeah, I don't think that's something we should pursue. We have our own domain |
| 13:53 | libsysguy1 | ok, I just know that when we first started looking for Koha we found ptfs first |
| 13:53 | kf | hm |
| 13:53 | koha is a character mark | |
| 13:53 | oleonard | I think it would just create more confusion if our project were koha.com and ptfs were koha.org |
| 13:53 | Brooke | deceptive business practices are deceptive? |
| 13:53 | kf | so the symbol is not trademarked, right? |
| 13:53 | libsysguy1 | it wasn't until we called and found out it wasn't the open source koha that we found koha-community |
| 13:54 | no its not, and we should file for a mark on our symbol | |
| 13:54 | kf | that's what I was thinking |
| 13:54 | because it's nice - and has a meaning | |
| 13:54 | * libsysguy1 | is taking a business law class this semester |
| 13:54 | kf | yay ;) |
| 13:54 | libsysguy1 | so I am kind of interested in what is going on with this |
| 13:55 | technically we could run into problems if we bought koha.com | |
| 13:55 | since we have "confusingly similar" products | |
| 13:55 | and they have the wordmark | |
| 13:56 | oleonard | Too bad libraries in the United States have been using Koha under that name since before Liblime existed. |
| 13:56 | Brooke | I personally think the horse has long left the stall |
| 13:56 | it'd be interesting to see what the courts said. | |
| 13:57 | libsysguy1 | agreed |
| 13:58 | oleonard | If the trademark issue in NZ is resolved as PTFS has promised I wonder if we could use those donations to challenge the TM in the US |
| 13:59 | libsysguy1 | ^^ |
| 14:01 | kf | hm let's wait ok? |
| 14:01 | Brooke | interresante. |
| 14:01 | kf | they have not tried to enforce it |
| 14:02 | libsysguy1 | because no court would uphold it... |
| 14:03 | BUT | |
| 14:03 | if they did…we'd basically be royally screwed | |
| 14:05 | Brooke | not entirely |
| 14:05 | we'd name change and move on | |
| 14:05 | which would hose a leech. | |
| 14:05 | no more blood to suck | |
| 14:05 | oh well. | |
| 14:05 | libsysguy1 | yeah…so its basically comes down to…what is your name worth to you |
| 14:07 | oleonard | It would be great press to have PTFS say they would go after libraries using the term Koha |
| 14:09 | libsysguy1 | haha that would be pretty funny to see actually |
| 14:10 | oleonard | jwagner: When will PTFS/LibLime seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark? |
| 14:11 | jwagner | oleonard, would you like a history lesson, and to have me correct all the misstatements in the preceding discussion? |
| 14:11 | Or to just note that we HAVE sought dialog multiple times and been rebuffed. | |
| 14:11 | oleonard | Actually I was just wondering when PTFS/LibLime would seek a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark |
| 14:11 | ...as they said they "encouraged" | |
| 14:12 | If you're telling me, jwagner, that PTFS cannot reach the Koha stakeholders, then I'm confused. | |
| 14:12 | * Brooke | is pretty sure oleonard knows his history as he works at the Library that was one of the first running Koha in the states. |
| 14:13 | oleonard | The first, to my knowledge. |
| 14:13 | JesseM | @wunder 06614 |
| 14:13 | huginn | JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 4.8°C (9:13 AM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -14.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 30.10 in 1019.2 hPa (Rising). |
| 14:13 | jwagner | Maybe it is time for the history lesson. When PTFS first entered the Koha field, our attempts to get listed as a support provider were blocked repeatedly and we were ordered to stop using the Koha logo etc. by people who now have conveniently short memories. |
| 14:13 | oleonard | jwagner: We don't want to hear your history lession. We just want to know when PTFS will be contacting us. |
| 14:14 | Brooke | You were blocked by a party that no longer participates, no? |
| 14:14 | jwagner | This was done at the instigation of Josh and Liblime who were afraid of us, but supported and enabled by many of the same people who now represent "the community". |
| 14:14 | Brooke | So that obstacle no longer exists, yes? |
| 14:14 | Your CEO professed a fresh start, yes? | |
| 14:14 | jwagner | So you're asking us to hand over things like trademarks etc. to people who participated in trying to use them against us |
| 14:15 | Brooke | Then continued to war with the community, yes? |
| 14:15 | oleonard | jwagner: You're misrepresenting again |
| 14:15 | Brooke | at no point did anyone use a mark against you |
| 14:15 | the self preservation argument is ridiculous on the face. | |
| 14:15 | jwagner | Brooke, yes they did. We have the correspondence. |
| 14:15 | Brooke | by all means, make that public |
| 14:15 | I'd love to see it. | |
| 14:16 | jwagner | We have not and will not attempt to enforce trademarks, but also will not hand them over without the guarantees we've stated. |
| 14:16 | Brooke | I'd still like to know why John Yokley promised community involvement and has failed to deliver on that. |
| 14:16 | sekjal joined #koha | |
| 14:16 | jwagner | Because every time we've tried we've been rebuffed. I've participated in several of those discussions myself. |
| 14:16 | Brooke | and I believe that it was just stated that HLT can do just that and are validated by the community to do so. |
| 14:17 | what has been rebuffed | |
| 14:17 | is that a Koha Foundation, controlled solely by PTFS, can hold a mark | |
| 14:18 | and perhaps your memory is short indeed | |
| 14:18 | the very first time I met you | |
| 14:18 | I offered to talk over Community issues | |
| 14:18 | maximep joined #koha | |
| 14:18 | Brooke | and you rebuffed me. |
| 14:19 | talljoy joined #koha | |
| 14:19 | jwagner | I did not. I passed that offer on to my bosses. |
| 14:19 | My memory is not short, but my patience is exhausted. | |
| 14:19 | Brooke | and did they contact me? |
| 14:19 | no. | |
| 14:19 | you had my information | |
| 14:19 | oleonard | jwagner: https://www.facebook.com/note.[…]10150377460456996 |
| 14:20 | Brooke | they chose not to use it |
| 14:20 | oleonard | jwagner: "PTFS/LibLime encourages a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha" |
| 14:20 | Brooke | PTFS willingly repeated past mistakes. |
| 14:20 | oleonard | jwagner: We are waiting. |
| 14:20 | Brooke | "As promised, PTFS will continue to support the Koha open source community." |
| 14:21 | I'm still waiting for that. | |
| 14:21 | http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipe[…]April/023548.html | |
| 14:21 | jwagner | We have done so. |
| 14:22 | Brooke | oh really? |
| 14:22 | how so? | |
| 14:22 | jwagner | Let's see. Definition of support? Participate in meetings, create bug reports, submit patches, participate on the listserv and IRC, what else? |
| 14:22 | * chris_n | reads an email with an offer to use the koha dataset from the House of Representatives Congressional Library Bureau of the Philippians in it |
| 14:22 | jcamins | Woohoo! |
| 14:22 | chris_n | for development purposes |
| 14:23 | Brooke | oh sweet chris |
| 14:23 | jcamins | philippines_house_of_representatives++ |
| 14:23 | chris_n | they say they have received such invaluable support thorough the list and irc that they want to give back |
| 14:23 | Brooke | submitting patches to your own fork's repository doesn't count. |
| 14:23 | patronising over IRC also doesn't count. | |
| 14:24 | edveal joined #koha | |
| 14:24 | Brooke | there's still time to do what you said you would |
| 14:25 | jwagner | Brooke, would you care to compare how many patches I and other PTFS people have submitted to _community_ code versus how many you have done? |
| 14:26 | Brooke | sure. |
| 14:26 | Stack your negligible commits to master v my documentation | |
| 14:26 | Go. | |
| 14:26 | *LibLime* initially participated | |
| 14:26 | but if you look at git for the last year | |
| 14:26 | PTFS commits from US are negligible at best. | |
| 14:27 | do the maths to see what I've done for the community this past year alone | |
| 14:27 | jwagner | So there's a time limit on "participation" |
| 14:27 | Brooke | versus the harm you've sought to do |
| 14:27 | go ahead. | |
| 14:27 | oleonard | jwagner: Obviously there is, because time has changed your participation level |
| 14:27 | jwagner: You don't get to "buy" the credit for Liblime's participation in the past | |
| 14:27 | jwagner | oleonard, for precisely this reason -- I'm tired of being attacked |
| 14:28 | oleonard | jwagner: You don't want to submit patches because you get attacked for it? |
| 14:28 | jwagner | and I'm not trying to buy credits. I'm talking about patches I have personally written and submitted. |
| 14:28 | sekjal | http://git.koha-community.org/[…]t=author&s=wagner |
| 14:28 | I believe that's a fairly accurate search... I'm willing to refine as necessary | |
| 14:29 | oleonard | jwagner: Why do you think PTFS has not moved to start a direct dialog with Koha stakeholders to determine an equitable solution for the disposition of the trademark that serves the best interests of the libraries who use Koha? |
| 14:30 | jwagner | why do you think the stakeholders haven't? We've tried talking to the committee in the past; we're willing to try again. |
| 14:31 | Brooke | then show up at the next General IRC meeting |
| 14:31 | instead of insisting that things are done under cover of darkness. | |
| 14:31 | we work in sunlight. | |
| 14:31 | oleonard | jwagner: Your press release says PTFS wants it. So do it. |
| 14:31 | jwagner | Brooke, I've attended almost every meeting. |
| 14:31 | oleonard | Don't throw the question back at me jwagner |
| 14:31 | jwagner: Are you saying you speak for PTFS? | |
| 14:31 | Brooke | can you cite in the meeting minutes when you've brought up this issue? |
| 14:31 | jwagner | And at the risk of ending this enjoyable conversation, I have a client call scheduled that I have to make. I'll be back later. |
| 14:31 | oleonard | Come back with new information jwagner |
| 14:32 | Brooke | if they were earnest, they'd have signed over the assets |
| 14:35 | larryb joined #koha | |
| 14:35 | brendan_ripon joined #koha | |
| 14:36 | brendan_ripon | morning all |
| 14:36 | irc_logs? | |
| 14:36 | logs? | |
| 14:36 | wahanui | logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/ |
| 14:36 | brendan_ripon | thanks |
| 14:36 | jcamins | wahanui: irc logs are at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/ |
| 14:36 | wahanui | ...but irc logs is ibot's friend :)... |
| 14:36 | ...but irc logs are ibot's friend :)... | |
| 14:36 | jcamins | irc logs? |
| 14:36 | wahanui | irc logs are ibot's friend :) |
| 14:36 | kf | lol |
| 14:37 | jcamins | Uhhh... |
| 14:37 | brendan_ripon | heh |
| 14:37 | kf | irc logs are also at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/ |
| 14:37 | wahanui | okay, kf. |
| 14:37 | kf | irc logs? |
| 14:37 | wahanui | irc logs are ibot's friend :) or at http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/ |
| 14:37 | brendan_ripon | whenever I type log - I always think of the sound.. log log |
| 14:37 | whoops song not sound | |
| 14:38 | Brooke | it's big it's heavy it's wood? |
| 14:38 | brendan_ripon | yup that one |
| 14:38 | Brooke | :) |
| 14:38 | magnuse | ? |
| 14:39 | Brooke | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7mNr5WMjA |
| 14:39 | clearly this is the intended purpose of Reference. ;) | |
| 14:40 | * magnuse | 's mind boggles |
| 14:41 | sekjal | ah, that brings me back... |
| 14:41 | paul_p | yeah ... we've found a stupid SQL query that load all framework just to retrieve one value. Patch coming, that reduce the CPU consumption a lot ! (from 5.98s to 4.23s on our tests...) |
| 14:41 | (on each result page) | |
| 14:41 | kf | cool :) |
| 14:42 | improving_koha++ :) | |
| 14:42 | paul_p++ | |
| 14:42 | Brooke | way to go paul! |
| 14:42 | paul_p++ | |
| 14:42 | libsysguy_afk | @karma improving_koha |
| 14:42 | huginn | libsysguy_afk: Karma for "improving_koha" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. |
| 14:42 | paul_p | joubu++ would be more honest ;-) |
| 14:42 | Brooke | I'm really excited to hear about all of the good stuff that came out of conference performance wise |
| 14:43 | sekjal | paul_p++. that kind of work is VERY satisfying |
| 14:43 | joubu++ | |
| 14:44 | kf | I like this better than discussions about past and things - let's make koha the best ils |
| 14:44 | Brooke | a yep |
| 14:44 | :) | |
| 14:44 | sekjal | I've got a feature idea I need to discuss a bit, if anyone has time |
| 14:45 | Brooke | oooh oooh |
| 14:45 | discuss | |
| 14:45 | sekjal | nothing super fancy |
| 14:45 | Brooke | I <3 features. |
| 14:45 | should we do a type with me for speccing, or what? | |
| 14:45 | sekjal | half bugfix, half feature, really |
| 14:45 | kf | spill :) |
| 14:45 | * sekjal | worries he may have oversold this... |
| 14:45 | kf | making us more and more curious... |
| 14:45 | jcamins | sekjal: I'd like to hear about it, anyway. |
| 14:46 | sekjal | so, in a multi branch environment, circulation is naturally more complex |
| 14:46 | paul_p | we had a Solr expert last week, for 3 days. The speed of Koha/Solr sometimes goes very bad. The reason is not Solr. It's Koha ! |
| 14:46 | sekjal | a material is owned by one library, and possibly lent by another, and could in theory be returned to a third |
| 14:46 | jcamins | paul_p: was that a surprise? :P |
| 14:47 | sekjal | paul_p: is there a solution, or at least a good place to start? |
| 14:47 | paul_p | well, we hoped it was a shared problem... |
| 14:47 | kf | I imagine it#s probably slowing down zebra now too |
| 14:48 | jcamins | sekjal: yes, that's a common situation with large consortia. |
| 14:48 | sekjal | so, there are really two questions that come into play in a return |
| 14:49 | 1) can the patron return the material here? | |
| 14:49 | 2) if so, where does that material go next? | |
| 14:49 | juan_sieira joined #koha | |
| 14:49 | sekjal | right now, we're using HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn to answer both of those questions |
| 14:49 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 14:49 | Brooke | I grok ye sekjal. |
| 14:50 | sekjal | the problem being, of course, that if you can only return to the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library, then your automatic transfer won't kick off, because you're already there |
| 14:50 | and, with IndependantBranches on, you cannot return to anything BUT the HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn library | |
| 14:51 | rhcl_asm joined #koha | |
| 14:52 | sekjal | so, we need to break HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn down into two separate mechanisms. one to answer question 1, the other to answer question 2 |
| 14:52 | what should those mechanisms look like? | |
| 14:52 | Brooke | I'd also suggest |
| 14:52 | a weighting mechanism | |
| 14:52 | and cleverness in construction | |
| 14:52 | that takes delivery in mind | |
| 14:53 | in general, Libraries have a set schedule for delivery | |
| 14:53 | if we know that the truck is going to the next Library down the road, it's easier to send it on so it gets there today | |
| 14:53 | rather than wait a week | |
| 14:53 | does that make any sense? | |
| 14:53 | it's also waste when it is mailed back to central rather than just filled on the spot. | |
| 14:54 | jcamins | It does, but might be a little NP-complete. |
| 14:54 | rhcl_asm | I just wonke up, may I ask the subject? |
| 14:54 | woke | |
| 14:54 | jcamins | rhcl_asm: return routing. |
| 14:54 | Brooke | HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn |
| 14:54 | wahanui | hmmm... HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn is being used two different ways in AddReturn |
| 14:55 | sekjal | rhcl: working on handling circ returns in a multi-branch environ |
| 14:56 | rhcl_asm | think google circles--we have a route driver for an "external" consortial group, and we have our own intra-branch deliveries. |
| 14:56 | there, my contribution | |
| 14:56 | kf | sekjal: have you seen the floating collection patch? |
| 14:56 | Brooke | the first domino is yes or no though |
| 14:57 | kf | and I think weighting was part of the planned holds rewirte? |
| 14:57 | Brooke | yes, we will take this piece of material |
| 14:57 | kf | I think I have seen bugs for this. |
| 14:57 | Brooke | no, we won't bring it back to the home library |
| 14:57 | so that is certainly "right" | |
| 14:57 | kf | bug 7144 |
| 14:57 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7144 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, srdjan, ASSIGNED , Floating collection |
| 14:58 | Brooke | question 2 would be a table with confirmation |
| 14:59 | which is where a neat chat window or good relationships within a consortium would come in handy | |
| 14:59 | back in the olden days | |
| 14:59 | I used to telephone for ILLs | |
| 14:59 | "Hey, they returned this to me, can I send it on to X Library? Cause one of _their_ Patrons wants it now." | |
| 15:00 | the only time people seem to get a bee in their bonnet | |
| 15:00 | in this context | |
| 15:00 | is when you have a bestseller | |
| 15:00 | that functionally never sees its home library | |
| 15:00 | so there should be an itemtype thinger | |
| 15:00 | sekjal | sorry, phone |
| 15:00 | will look at 7144 | |
| 15:00 | Brooke | that checks to ensure that newer stuff might not be subject to a hold or transfer. |
| 15:01 | sekjal | because I do need the functionality wherein, depending on item type and homebranch, the item either stays at the return location, or goes home |
| 15:02 | Brooke | that's part of it |
| 15:02 | but it's not the whole | |
| 15:03 | things are even trickier if you effectively have a central library and branches operating within a consortium | |
| 15:03 | they might have floating collections within their own island | |
| 15:03 | but they might not want their stuff going outside of their moana | |
| 15:05 | kf | sekjal: sounds like floating should be a circ matrix thing? |
| 15:05 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 15:05 | kf | without borrower category |
| 15:06 | sekjal | kf: I believe so |
| 15:06 | since it's a return, who had it is not likely to be important | |
| 15:06 | though, quote123 will factor in | |
| 15:07 | kf | true |
| 15:08 | sekjal | so, for question 1, what would acceptable values be? |
| 15:09 | by question 1, I mean "where am I allowed to return this book?" | |
| 15:09 | Brooke | that's interesting |
| 15:09 | when you phrase it that way | |
| 15:09 | there's a gradient | |
| 15:09 | sekjal | some possibilities: homebranch, issuingbranch, homebranch OR issuingbranch, anywhere |
| 15:10 | Brooke | when you have "Can I return this here?" it's a toggle. |
| 15:10 | rhcl_asm | Tweeting #MPLD |
| 15:10 | sekjal | anywhere "on the same network as the homebranch", for some definition thereof |
| 15:10 | Brooke | do we want to lose the first lock? |
| 15:10 | kf | sekjal: homebranch, issuingbranch, patron's home branch?, holding branch |
| 15:10 | Brooke | I mean your way might well be better |
| 15:10 | kf | oh |
| 15:10 | and anywhere | |
| 15:10 | trea joined #koha | |
| 15:10 | kf | perhaps we need soemthing with checkboxes |
| 15:10 | sekjal | oh, right, patron home branch could be different than home or issuing |
| 15:10 | kf | so you can combine |
| 15:11 | make it a list | |
| 15:11 | Brooke | 0/ trea |
| 15:11 | trea | hi Brooke |
| 15:12 | Brooke | I'm just trying to figure out how you would deal with an anti social Library or collection |
| 15:12 | cause I was always like "ya! Lend that.: | |
| 15:12 | sekjal | would it ever be a problem to return a book to the library that owns it? |
| 15:12 | Brooke | oh wait, that's Local History / Rare, no freggin way." |
| 15:12 | no | |
| 15:12 | or else we're in big trouble | |
| 15:12 | sekjal | I mean, shouldn't homebranch ALWAYS be okay? |
| 15:12 | Brooke | yes |
| 15:12 | kf | hm |
| 15:13 | Brooke | it might be immediately sent to Guam |
| 15:13 | kf | if it's been given to the holding branch as a kind of collection |
| 15:13 | Brooke | but that's a risk we've to take ;) |
| 15:13 | kf | supposed to stay there for a while |
| 15:13 | Brooke | Cait I think we're thinking alike |
| 15:13 | kf | I might not want it to be returned anywhere else thatn the holding branch |
| 15:13 | uhoh | |
| 15:13 | ;) | |
| 15:13 | Brooke | :) |
| 15:13 | sekjal | oh geeze, now we're bringing in a new question |
| 15:13 | we have o | |
| 15:14 | sorry | |
| 15:14 | Brooke | yeah it seems like there has to be some sort of time based expiry jobby |
| 15:14 | sekjal | we have "owning library", and "possessing library" |
| 15:14 | kf | possessing = has it right now? |
| 15:14 | Brooke | like hey, I just sent this floating St. Patrick's display over to Pine Hills |
| 15:14 | sekjal | kf: yes |
| 15:14 | Brooke | even though the books are from Main |
| 15:14 | I don't want em back again | |
| 15:14 | so send em back to Pine Hills. | |
| 15:14 | some people are like | |
| 15:14 | meh | |
| 15:14 | they can stay at Main | |
| 15:15 | then we know how successful the display was.. | |
| 15:15 | sekjal | do we need a third level of "temporary home library"? for things sent away from their owners for an extended visit? |
| 15:15 | Brooke | I think that's what the floating collection thing is meant to address, but doesn't quite yet as specced. |
| 15:16 | the description is scant though | |
| 15:16 | so I might well be misinterpreting it. | |
| 15:18 | kf | sekjal: rotating collections I think - was supposed to do that |
| 15:18 | sekjal: the files are still in koha, but there were some bugs with it, so it's not displayed... | |
| 15:19 | sekjal | yeah, that's a pre-3.2 feature, so I think it needs a pretty big overhaul to make it work |
| 15:19 | kf | I am not sure building anything on the current system wil work out really |
| 15:19 | having a rewrite for the holds is perhaps the way to go - thought it was kinda planned? | |
| 15:19 | Brooke | there's a difference between an individual item |
| 15:19 | and a floating collection though | |
| 15:19 | sekjal | kf: yeah, the holds rewrite will factor into this, as well |
| 15:20 | Brooke | the stuff I pull off of bookmobile |
| 15:20 | is different | |
| 15:20 | sekjal | I'm mostly considering cases where holds aren't involved, though, at least for right now |
| 15:20 | Brooke | from the stuff I'd borrow directly. |
| 15:20 | kf | book mobiles are entirely differnt |
| 15:20 | I was told | |
| 15:20 | people wnat a "bus stop management module" for that | |
| 15:20 | Guest18734 | O.O |
| 15:20 | kf | so, when you only get to a bus stop once every 3 weeks, the due dates should be calculated accordingly |
| 15:20 | Brooke | but there's still a difference between a collection |
| 15:20 | and an individual one off | |
| 15:21 | kf | being able to set up circulation rules by bus stop, while your items are all at the bus as a home library... |
| 15:21 | Brooke | I'd return this where it belongs, but I've a screaming child in the car, so it's going to this branch. |
| 15:21 | kf | hi wizzyrea |
| 15:21 | Brooke | 0/ |
| 15:22 | libsysguy joined #koha | |
| 15:22 | Brooke | wb |
| 15:22 | libsysguy | 0/ |
| 15:22 | Brooke | I think the ratio overall |
| 15:22 | is more favourable than scattering | |
| 15:22 | so in excess of about 80% of materials are just returned "normally" | |
| 15:23 | at least from what I've experienced. | |
| 15:23 | sekjal | idea: a complete "temporary item record" for any given item |
| 15:23 | Brooke | but someone someplace big like NYPL might have a whole different story to tell. |
| 15:23 | sekjal | so you can change some aspect of the record for a while, then go back |
| 15:23 | possible use cases: | |
| 15:23 | floating collections | |
| 15:23 | 'new' or 'featured' items on in a different shelving location | |
| 15:23 | Brooke | how much of a load would that produce? |
| 15:23 | sekjal | course reserves |
| 15:24 | Brooke: I think it could be done with minimal system load | |
| 15:24 | mostly just increase storage | |
| 15:24 | * Brooke | nods. |
| 15:27 | rhcl_asm | so sad - nobody following me? |
| 15:28 | sekjal | so, a new table, temp_items or items_backup |
| 15:28 | and a mechanism to push values in there, and pull them back out | |
| 15:28 | wizzyrea | rhcl- on what? |
| 15:28 | rhcl_asm | |
| 15:28 | #MPLD | |
| 15:30 | wizzyrea | there, feel better? :) |
| 15:31 | well you're not following anybody | |
| 15:31 | kf | sekjal: I think we talked about that in nz :) I like it |
| 15:31 | sekjal: perhaps better have a backup table? easier to fit in into current workflow? | |
| 15:31 | rhcl_asm | I'm at a meeting |
| 15:31 | wizzyrea | sekjal: batch edit could probably do that |
| 15:32 | sekjal | extending the idea... why just backup items? why not biblios? |
| 15:32 | how many libraries have run into a situation where someone accidentally overwrites a record with something else? | |
| 15:32 | wouldn't it be handy to have a quick 'revert' option there? | |
| 15:32 | wizzyrea | well they are kind of backed up in the action logs |
| 15:33 | you can at least see the changes | |
| 15:33 | kf | sekjal: I think a first step here would be to make use of our deleted_* tables again |
| 15:33 | I was told earlier version had features to bring back things from there... but it got broken | |
| 15:33 | wizzyrea | well a revert would be awesomes |
| 15:33 | kf | undo deletions |
| 15:33 | we have the information | |
| 15:33 | but not a way to do it | |
| 15:33 | wizzyrea | ^^ |
| 15:34 | sekjal | what we'd need here is not just the last version, or a deleted version, but all versions from initial creation to now |
| 15:34 | so, basically, a git log | |
| 15:34 | Brooke | oh wow |
| 15:34 | wizzyrea | revision history |
| 15:35 | wordpress has such a thing. | |
| 15:35 | but you also need a way to dump the history. | |
| 15:35 | sekjal | if we kept biblio revision history in a git-like way, we could easily share changes to biblios across libraries |
| 15:35 | * Brooke | thinks Sekjal intends to cast MassRes for Records. |
| 15:36 | Brooke | nice |
| 15:37 | kf | sekjal: I am not sure if this is going a step too far |
| 15:38 | sekjal: there is an option right now to turn on logging of changes... | |
| 15:38 | perhaps we could go from that? | |
| 15:38 | rhcl_asm | are they doing it in secret? no, open discussion at MPLD (Missouri Public Library Directors meeting -where I'm at) |
| 15:38 | kf | store the log in a useful way, make it possible to undo steps |
| 15:40 | * sekjal | looks at where this started, and where it's wound up, and wonders how he's going to get this feature coded any time this decade |
| 15:40 | oleonard | rhcl_asm: Just wondered why that should be "off" |
| 15:41 | rhcl_asm | ya, probably wasn't necessary. I'm passing notes, tweeting, and trying to follow an active discussion. |
| 15:42 | * chris_n | sees oleonard survived "the chair" yesterday :) |
| 15:42 | rhcl_asm | @seen gmcharlt |
| 15:42 | huginn | rhcl_asm: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 20 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> cait: idempotent means that if you repeat an operation more than once, nothing changes |
| 15:43 | kf | I asked something, he popped in, answered it and left again :) |
| 15:43 | oleonard | chris_n: The dentist is usually quite kind to me |
| 15:43 | chris_n | 'idempotent' usage example: "Arguing with PTFS is idempotent" |
| 15:44 | * chris_n | better check the part of speech :) |
| 15:46 | chris_n | oleonard: I'm glad for you; they always seem to be driving for china when numbing me up... 8-P |
| 15:49 | rhcl_asm | chris_n: == funny |
| 15:52 | jcamins | Is there any context in which end-of-subfield punctuation is significant in an authorized heading? |
| 15:54 | * chris_n | wishes they'd do away with end-of-(sub)field punctuation... period |
| 15:54 | * jcamins | too. |
| 15:54 | chris_n | folks are constantly asking me what it is there for |
| 15:55 | * wizzyrea | recalls the library that systematically removed it - and then had to put it back when they came into our catalog >.< |
| 15:55 | * chris_n | has used some regexps to strip it out when printing labels |
| 15:55 | chris_n | which helps make everybody happy some of the time :-) |
| 15:57 | * chris_n | reminds peps that we do control #koha-news over on freenode; huginn hangs out there and posts koha news as it occurs in case you are interested |
| 15:58 | wizzyrea | nice! |
| 15:59 | * magnuse | thinks mixing punctuation and data is evil |
| 16:00 | kf | yep |
| 16:00 | it is | |
| 16:01 | wizzyrea: I think if we made isbd and some other views work without... we could strip them.... | |
| 16:01 | francharb joined #koha | |
| 16:01 | kf | it's only some things look ugly now without the stupid punctuation |
| 16:04 | * Brooke | hugs francharb |
| 16:09 | reiveune | bye |
| 16:09 | reiveune left #koha | |
| 16:09 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282> |
| 16:12 | * chris_n | rids himself of another $0.02 |
| 16:13 | maximep | anyone ever had an error saying all.pref not found when doing a system preferences search? |
| 16:13 | am i supposed to have all.pref? | |
| 16:14 | kf | hm no |
| 16:14 | and never heard of all pref | |
| 16:14 | oleonard | PTFS continues to do all its communicating in the form of comments on 3rd party blog posts diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-liblime-trademark/ |
| 16:14 | kf | chris_n: I think I disagree here - and I am really hoping peopel without local changes are on the same db version |
| 16:14 | oleonard | Sorry, http://diligentroom.wordpress.[…]iblime-trademark/ |
| 16:15 | kf | chris_n: because everything else will make helping people impossible |
| 16:15 | chris_n | kf: with the new system the "admin" or whatever, may choose to apply or reject any update |
| 16:15 | so... | |
| 16:16 | there will be a greater chance that divergence will occur | |
| 16:16 | asaurat | auf wiedersehen! |
| 16:16 | kf | but he shouldn't |
| 16:16 | * francharb | hugs Brooke |
| 16:16 | chris_n | it may not |
| 16:16 | francharb | ;) |
| 16:16 | kf | and we shouldn't tell him it's a good idea |
| 16:16 | or leave the impression it is | |
| 16:16 | chris_n | but the possibility is increased |
| 16:16 | kf | yeah |
| 16:16 | which is what I don't like about the idea :( | |
| 16:17 | I like having numbers and I like having a chance of everyone being on the same database structure | |
| 16:17 | asaurat left #koha | |
| 16:18 | * chris_n | personally does not see that it is possible to reduce the risk given the additional "surface area" non-linear updates will add to that |
| 16:18 | chris_n | requiring every update would render non-linear updates pointless unless I've missed something |
| 16:21 | jcamins | Ah, maybe Periodicals can be both subfield x and subfield v? |
| 16:23 | Maybe not. Maps? | |
| 16:25 | No. | |
| 16:25 | Bibliography? | |
| 16:26 | chris_n | jcamins: ? |
| 16:26 | feeling ok? | |
| 16:26 | * chris_n | notes you're chatting with yourself ;-) |
| 16:26 | jcamins | chris_n: I'm trying to find an example of two headings that are identical except for the subdivision code. |
| 16:26 | So, like, $aWizards$vBibliography and $aWizards$xBibliography. | |
| 16:27 | kf | chris_n: I think the intended use was for 'local' things |
| 16:27 | chris_n: not skipping things in general | |
| 16:28 | * chris_n | just got finished badmouthing MARC with a colleague |
| 16:28 | jcamins | chris_n: for good reason. Do you have an example of that? |
| 16:28 | chris_n | kf: I agree, but there are no guarantees once the lid is off of that pandora's box |
| 16:28 | jcamins: not without digging through the catalog | |
| 16:29 | jcamins | chris_n: nor do I. |
| 16:29 | chris_n | kf: and the most responsible thing we can do is ensure track-ability |
| 16:29 | and to me it seems hashes do a fantastic job | |
| 16:30 | jcamins | Agreed. |
| 16:30 | I put in my vote for hashes ages ago. | |
| 16:30 | * chris_n | would like to hear gmcharlt 's $0.02 on the subject |
| 16:31 | kf | can't we have both? |
| 16:31 | a hash and a number to be displayed? | |
| 16:31 | so people ilke me can ask: which of your numbers are red and have exploded? | |
| 16:32 | chris_n | kf: but how would you determine what "version number" to display |
| 16:32 | kf | the last applied with a link to the page |
| 16:32 | perhaps | |
| 16:32 | chris_n | if I have a,b,c applied and you have a,b,z applied what version are we at? |
| 16:32 | kf | or the last applied and failed updates in () behind that |
| 16:33 | z = local change? because I think they will only be local, not having a number | |
| 16:33 | chris_n | probably displaying the most recent "sync'd" db version number would be the best we could do |
| 16:33 | kf | or that |
| 16:33 | chris_n | no, z being a change you like, and I don't |
| 16:34 | kf | with a hash + local changes - the hashes will never match, so I will have no idea where the person is in a general view? |
| 16:34 | I think it's insane to not do the updates... but if you wanted to do that, I couldn't stop you | |
| 16:34 | and that's where I think this is idea is not good | |
| 16:34 | but, a lot of people seemed to like it | |
| 16:34 | ... | |
| 16:34 | so. | |
| 16:34 | chris_n | I think the probability of that happening is small, but real |
| 16:35 | and so must be accounted for | |
| 16:35 | kf | well, if you tell me you have done local changes, I will tell you: you are not runnign koha, I can't help. |
| 16:35 | sorry, but i am worried about this :( | |
| 16:36 | ago43 joined #koha | |
| 16:36 | chris_n | we could always "enforce" the application of "community-wide" changes.... |
| 16:37 | paul_p about? | |
| 16:37 | jcamins | chris_n: he's training a library, I think. |
| 16:37 | paul_p | chris_n, yes ? |
| 16:37 | jcamins | Or not. |
| 16:38 | paul_p | jcamins, don't play your wahanui !!! |
| 16:38 | (frenchism suspected) | |
| 16:38 | chris_n | paul_p: will someone doing a normal release upgrade have the option of applying db updates via the admin/updatedatabase.pl interface |
| 16:38 | paul_p | chris_n, yep |
| 16:38 | jcamins | paul_p: I thought you said yesterday you were training today. |
| 16:38 | chris_n | so it is possible that someone could "choose" not to run db update X? |
| 16:39 | for whatever insane reason | |
| 16:39 | paul_p | chris_n, yep, except he will be switched back to this page (from mainpage.pl) everytime he tries to "fake" Koha |
| 16:39 | so, in fact, no real choice... | |
| 16:39 | jcamins, I had a meeting this morning, not a training | |
| 16:39 | jcamins | paul_p: in other words, the only way to avoid installing updates would be to modify the code? |
| 16:39 | chris_n | so why wouldn't we just apply all db changes automagically during an upgrade? |
| 16:40 | jcamins | paul_p: I knew you were away *somewhere*. |
| 16:40 | chris_n | and not even open the door for potential "skips" |
| 16:40 | sekjal | maybe I'm being dense or forgetful (wouldn't be the first time). but what problems are we looking to solve with the change in updatedatabase method? |
| 16:40 | chris_n | paul_p: the non-linear application is really for devs (which includes "in-house" mods), right? |
| 16:41 | sekjal: I "think" it is really a development problem | |
| 16:41 | paul_p | chris_n, could be an improvement, you're right. But doing this silently seems a bad idea. |
| 16:41 | chris_n | not a "average user" problem |
| 16:41 | paul_p | He could just have the option to "apply" (all updates) |
| 16:41 | so, he could see what has been made | |
| 16:42 | sekjal | problems I see: we cannot 'downgrade' a database as we can downgrade code |
| 16:42 | chris_n | no rollback |
| 16:42 | paul_p | sekjal, nothing new here. It's already the case. |
| 16:42 | sekjal | we also have a hard time switching from master to stable once we're down the release cycle a ways |
| 16:42 | paul_p | sekjal, why ? (the hard time) |
| 16:43 | sekjal | paul_p: if master has introduced a complex database change that has not been committed to stable |
| 16:43 | then we don't have a way to undo that change | |
| 16:43 | like the fix for bug 6328 | |
| 16:43 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6328 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, ASSIGNED , Fine in days does not work |
| 16:43 | jcamins | sekjal: the problem we're trying to solve is that with updatedatabase working as it does, there's a disincentive to testing the interaction of two patches. |
| 16:43 | sekjal: that's no different from the situation now. | |
| 16:43 | sekjal | okay, so it looks like I'm thinking about problems that are outside the scope of this proposed change |
| 16:43 | paul_p | jcamins++ |
| 16:44 | right | |
| 16:44 | chris_n | right |
| 16:44 | kf | sekjal: running from master is dangerous |
| 16:44 | paul_p | (plus, the more I think of it, the more I think running master is a perillious idea...) |
| 16:44 | sekjal | so, the problem we're trying to solve is encouraging folks to test two patches in conjunction? |
| 16:44 | kf | in my opinion |
| 16:44 | * chris_n | thinks this move is one step to a full solution |
| 16:44 | kf | not sure we should make that easier |
| 16:44 | paul_p | kf, all bywater customers run master... |
| 16:44 | sekjal | kf: its certainly a lot of work |
| 16:44 | * chris_n | runs from master every time he can get away with it ;-) |
| 16:45 | jcamins | sekjal: and when I say "disincentive" I mean "I, at least, ignore all changes that might conflict, instead letting them bitrot, because I don't have the time nor ability to handle any sort of complex testing." |
| 16:45 | kf | paul_p: I know, but I am not sure it's a good plan |
| 16:45 | jcamins | kf: we want people to test multiple patches, and spot problems *before* something's been pushed to Master. |
| 16:45 | paul_p | kf, agreed |
| 16:45 | jcamins | kf: oh, you mean running Master? |
| 16:46 | kf | I think if we want to have an undo option |
| 16:46 | jcamins | This change doesn't make it easier or harder to run master. |
| 16:46 | chris_n | kf: paul_p has cleared up the question |
| 16:46 | paul_p | jcamins, yes, she means that |
| 16:46 | kf | it needs to be a separate sql or pl file |
| 16:46 | jcamins | kf: I agree with you about running Master. |
| 16:46 | kf | which means making it harder to submit database changes |
| 16:46 | sekjal | kf: we at ByWater looking at changing that particular policy; meeting is schedule for Monday |
| 16:46 | jcamins | Undo is not included in paul_p's proposal. |
| 16:46 | chris_n | undo is only relevant to development |
| 16:46 | kf | sekjal: I didn#t want to offend you - it's only a personal opinion |
| 16:46 | chris_n | not to production |
| 16:46 | sekjal | kf: no offense taken |
| 16:47 | * chris_n | wonders who would want to "undo" a patch sequence on a production box? |
| 16:47 | paul_p | my feeling is that having a few/some libraries should/could running master is good. |
| 16:47 | jcamins | chris_n: I'd prefer not to speculate. |
| 16:47 | chris_n | paul_p: we basically run master |
| 16:47 | paul_p | *if* they know what they're running & are ready to face some problems sometimes |
| 16:47 | chris_n | and assume the liability involved |
| 16:47 | paul_p | chris_n++ |
| 16:48 | sekjal | my proposal for updating updatedatabase was to introduce a three-command API |
| 16:48 | kf | yeah, but having an undo button... means inviting it |
| 16:48 | sekjal | CHECK, DO, and UNDO |
| 16:48 | chris_n | but that's because /me is here to "fix it" when it breaks |
| 16:48 | jcamins | kf: no undo button. |
| 16:48 | chris_n | git is my "undo" |
| 16:48 | paul_p | (i'm speaking as BibLibre here : we're thinking of proposing to a few of our libraries to run master. But only wisely choosen ones) |
| 16:48 | jcamins | I think. |
| 16:48 | paul_p: did you propose an undo feature? | |
| 16:48 | If so, I missed that. | |
| 16:48 | paul_p | jcamins, no. |
| 16:48 | chris_n | I think an undo feature would involve backup up the db prior to application |
| 16:49 | paul_p | and I think it's almost impossible to have an undo sometimes. |
| 16:49 | jcamins | Agreed. |
| 16:49 | sekjal | paul_p: sometimes |
| 16:49 | it can be lossy | |
| 16:49 | chris_n | with a db backup and git, undo is very possible |
| 16:49 | been there, done that | |
| 16:49 | jcamins | I mean, undo would be really cool, but something to consider in the future. |
| 16:49 | sekjal | but if you're reverting to an earlier code state, you DB state must match |
| 16:49 | kf | paul_p: we started our first koha libraries on a version of master too - because of some sip things we needed, thoroughly tested it before that and updated to stable later |
| 16:49 | so I can understand why someone wants it | |
| 16:49 | chris_n | sekjal: hence my statement about backing up first |
| 16:49 | kf | andit can work too |
| 16:50 | sekjal | chris_n: yes, backups++ |
| 16:50 | chris_n | so 1) backup db 2) apply update 3)things are screwed up 4) restore backup 5)git revert 6) everyone's happy |
| 16:51 | maybe we should just integrate koha and git :-) | |
| 16:51 | sekjal | git-based backups |
| 16:51 | chris_n | yup |
| 16:51 | sekjal | I've been interested in doing that for a while |
| 16:51 | chris_n | a git hook |
| 16:51 | sekjal | tried at my previous institution |
| 16:51 | immediately ate up all the RAM | |
| 16:51 | * jcamins | thinks that might be git-or-miss. |
| 16:51 | chris_n | ie before git am or git rebase, we backup |
| 16:51 | sekjal | because I did it naively |
| 16:51 | jcamins: ::groan:: | |
| 16:51 | jcamins | :D |
| 16:52 | chris_n | lol |
| 16:52 | wizzyrea | git or miss. awesome. |
| 16:52 | chris_n | heya wizzyrea |
| 16:52 | wahanui | I LIKE SCIENCE! |
| 16:52 | jcamins | wizzyrea? |
| 16:52 | wahanui | I LIKE SCIENCE! |
| 16:52 | chris_n | wahanui: I LIKE GIT! |
| 16:52 | wahanui | chris_n: excuse me? |
| 16:52 | wizzyrea | bg? |
| 16:52 | wahanui | I LOVE BASEBALL AND BREAKFAST BURRITOS |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | rangi? |
| 16:53 | wahanui | I LIKE ALMONDS! HAVE SOME NUTS! |
| 16:53 | jcamins | chris_n is <reply> I LIKE GIT! |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | natec |
| 16:53 | jcamins | chris_n? |
| 16:53 | wahanui | chris_n is probably release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6. |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | natec? |
| 16:53 | wahanui | I LIKE SPACE AND MY WIFE |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | chris_n is also <reply> I LIKE GIT |
| 16:53 | wahanui | okay, wizzyrea. |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | chris_n? |
| 16:53 | wahanui | chris_n is release maintainer for 3.2, 3.4, and 3.6. or <reply> I LIKE GIT |
| 16:53 | wizzyrea | hm no |
| 16:54 | * wizzyrea | whispers sweet nothings into wahanui's ear |
| 16:55 | * chris_n | also likes lunch |
| 16:55 | sekjal | mmm, lunch |
| 16:55 | chris_n | paul_p: perhaps we should auto apply the updates and then display what updates were applied |
| 16:56 | that may avoid upgrade confusion | |
| 16:56 | with that note, I'm off to lunch with my 5yr old | |
| 16:56 | sekjal | I like that Koha automatically applies all the applicable updates to the DB |
| 16:56 | paul_p | chris_n, may be a good idea. |
| 16:56 | wizzyrea | :D |
| 16:56 | * jcamins | doesn't see how there's a change between the existing system and that proposal. |
| 16:56 | sekjal | I wouldn't want that to change |
| 16:56 | paul_p | maybe we could do that is DEBUG=0, and let the user choose if DEBUG=1 |
| 16:56 | jcamins | You enter your password, and then you wait. |
| 16:57 | If you hack the code to get around the webinstaller, that's your funeral. | |
| 16:57 | wizzyrea | well a choice to "apply all" by default, and a "see details" (like osx does) would be good |
| 16:57 | chris_n | wizzyrea++ |
| 16:57 | wizzyrea | those that are curious can see what the changes will be, those that don't care can just click through |
| 16:58 | chris_n | ok, lunch for real this time :) |
| 16:58 | sekjal | seeing the updates before upgrading (optionally) is a good feature |
| 16:58 | * wizzyrea | knows that's more work |
| 16:58 | kf | system preference! |
| 16:58 | wahanui | system preference is ReservesMaxPickUpDelay |
| 16:58 | * kf | goes to hide |
| 16:58 | sekjal | add a fourth API call to databaseupdate: DESCRIPTION |
| 16:59 | so, each database update must include a check method (is this even necessary), a do method (like we have), and undo (revert the change) and a description (display a textual summary of what this is set to accomplish) | |
| 17:00 | Guillaume1 left #koha | |
| 17:00 | wizzyrea | or at least a link to the bug |
| 17:00 | sekjal | that could be by convention |
| 17:01 | "for more info, see bug xxxx" | |
| 17:01 | wizzyrea | that's just like MS does with windows updates, they always reference the KB article |
| 17:01 | with a link | |
| 17:01 | sekjal | but this API would let us auto upgrade (if code version > db version) AND auto downgrade (if code version < db version) |
| 17:01 | wizzyrea | right |
| 17:02 | sekjal | we could so check if the update is already applied (and skip if so) |
| 17:02 | s/so/also/ | |
| 17:02 | wizzyrea | do and iterate :) |
| 17:02 | lots of this stuff can be added | |
| 17:02 | sekjal | description method would let us preview changes before committing |
| 17:03 | and perhaps an additional button could be added "backup DB before applying" | |
| 17:03 | wizzyrea | ^^ I like that idea |
| 17:03 | the button would probably also put the catalog in maintenance mode | |
| 17:03 | melia joined #koha | |
| 17:03 | wizzyrea | I guess the install already does that |
| 17:04 | sekjal | tie that in with some other automatic backup code |
| 17:04 | we so need to get the Task Scheduler working through the staff client again.... | |
| 17:04 | jcamins | I feel like this is not leading to a net simplification of the development and testing process. |
| 17:05 | kf | nope |
| 17:05 | rangi | sup peeps |
| 17:05 | sekjal | is such simplification even possible? |
| 17:05 | rhcl_asm | </#MPLD> |
| 17:05 | sekjal | sup, rangi |
| 17:05 | rhcl_asm | meeting over, I'm outta here |
| 17:05 | rhcl_asm left #koha | |
| 17:06 | magnuse | ata marie rangi |
| 17:07 | kf | hi rangi |
| 17:07 | can we concentrate on getting something that works and will not break things in? | |
| 17:07 | so we can get bug fixes into master again? | |
| 17:08 | and 3.4? | |
| 17:08 | wahanui | it has been said that 3.4 is still on schedule |
| 17:08 | kf | hm 3.6 I mean |
| 17:08 | jcamins | sekjal: well, I would think that paul_p's original proposal would simplify it. |
| 17:08 | Developers don't have to write any additional code (compared to now) to make a database change, and testers have a much simpler time of applying database updates they're testing, and checking for interactions. | |
| 17:08 | 3.6? | |
| 17:08 | wahanui | 3.6 is more relevant |
| 17:08 | jcamins | Heh. |
| 17:09 | sekjal | jcamins: I think I need to reread the proposal... it seems like we're getting off track from that, and into an overly-complex change |
| 17:09 | jcamins | sekjal: agreed. |
| 17:09 | sekjal | something that's introducing a lot of overhead and instability for very little gain |
| 17:10 | magnuse | kf++ |
| 17:10 | paul_p | jcamins, right: the new system is ++ for devs. It has also some additional pluses, like being able to see the result of an updatedatabase at anytime. For support, it's a big + ! |
| 17:10 | jcamins | paul_p: a good point. |
| 17:10 | sekjal | I repeat my recommendation of waiting until 3.8 to deploy this, in order to give us adequate time to test |
| 17:11 | * sekjal | hates rushing anything |
| 17:11 | paul_p | It also ease managing 2 versions, as I can push something that will be only in 3.8 without causing any trouble to 3.6 update & customers |
| 17:11 | kf | paul_p: I can agree on those 2 points |
| 17:12 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282> |
| 17:12 | paul_p | sekjal, we've tested it a lot. We use this mechanism in production for our customers, chris_n signed it off. I don't feel we're hurrying |
| 17:12 | kf | paul_p: seeing the updates later on is nice - I only don't want to encourage people doing stupid thigns - like skipping updates they don't understand |
| 17:12 | paul_p | (and I'm OK to wait for your/marcel QA validation) |
| 17:13 | sekjal | I think I've got too low of blood sugar right now to fully comprehend the recommendation, the patch, and all the details. I shall eat now |
| 17:14 | jcamins | kf: I don't think you can skip an update. |
| 17:16 | (at least, not one that's marked as required) Right, paul_p? | |
| 17:16 | trea | anybody know what the upper limit to display items to delete in the batch item deletion tool? |
| 17:17 | it looks like past a certain point it simply says "there's too many to display" | |
| 17:17 | larryb left #koha | |
| 17:18 | rangi | trea: 1000 |
| 17:19 | trea | thanks rangi |
| 17:19 | does batch item deletion check for holds and fines? i'm guessing it probably dos. | |
| 17:19 | s/dos/does | |
| 17:20 | oleonard | So optimistic! |
| 17:20 | trea | hope springs eternal, as they say |
| 17:20 | rangi | ill look |
| 17:22 | it calls DelItemCheck | |
| 17:22 | which checks onloan | |
| 17:23 | and if it has waiting reserve | |
| 17:23 | trea | rangi++ |
| 17:23 | rangi | but if you have reserve/hold that isnt waiting, but is itemlevel |
| 17:23 | that wont stop it | |
| 17:23 | does that help? | |
| 17:24 | trea | yes, i believe so |
| 17:24 | thanks for checking | |
| 17:24 | rangi | C4::Items DelItemCheck |
| 17:25 | if you want to check | |
| 17:28 | trea | okay, i see the sub now. thanks for pointing that out. |
| 17:29 | rangi | i think the sub could be updated to check a few more things |
| 17:30 | fredericd: are you about? | |
| 17:32 | for 7282 should the regexp be $lang =~ s/[^a-zA-Z_-]*//g; (with the g?) | |
| 17:41 | paul_p | rangi, & trea I think we've made some improvements. trea, drop a mail to christophe.croullebois at biblibre.com, he could tell you |
| 17:41 | time to go back home. bye & see you tomorrow ! | |
| 17:42 | rangi | cya paul_p |
| 17:48 | magnuse | huh, how do i figure out what SMS::Send::* modules exist? searching CPAN gives very few results... |
| 17:48 | rangi | thats about how many exist |
| 17:48 | not a lot | |
| 17:48 | magnuse | ah |
| 17:49 | kf | I think one is in koha of those, somewhere? |
| 17:49 | magnuse | oh wait, this gave a number of hits: http://search.cpan.org/search?[…]SMS%3A%3ASend&s=1 |
| 17:49 | sunno why i wasn't getting more then 2 at first... | |
| 17:50 | kf | ok, time to leave |
| 17:50 | bye all | |
| 17:50 | kf left #koha | |
| 17:50 | wizzyrea | by--- bother! |
| 17:50 | rangi | hmm yeah more than when i last looked |
| 17:51 | oleonard | s'okay wizzyrea, she'll be back |
| 17:51 | magnuse | tw = taiwan? seems to be a lot of those... |
| 17:51 | rangi | yup |
| 17:51 | wizzyrea | not like some OTHER people I know who are so fast on the exit button you can't ever catch them |
| 17:51 | rangi | big mobile phone users/producers |
| 17:52 | * wizzyrea | looks at oleonard |
| 17:52 | sekjal | magnuse: I believe list of SMS::Send::* modules are in the Koha manual somewhere |
| 17:53 | magnuse | ah |
| 17:53 | oleonard | wizzyrea: Next time I'll way for your goodbye. If I don't receive it I'll just stay at work. |
| 17:53 | wizzyrea | noooo |
| 17:54 | trea | lol |
| 17:54 | wizzyrea | I just like to say goodbye is all ;) |
| 17:54 | magnuse | sekjal: http://manual.koha-community.o[…]html#smsnoticefaq "Some common options in the US (that have Perl drivers) are..." |
| 18:10 | cait joined #koha | |
| 18:10 | cait | back |
| 18:13 | rangi | wb cait |
| 18:13 | tcohen joined #koha | |
| 18:14 | tcohen | hi #koha |
| 18:14 | is there any demo site | |
| 18:15 | with koha/solr ? | |
| 18:17 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 7282] invalid language selection <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7282> |
| 18:27 | adminacct joined #koha | |
| 18:54 | rangi | fredericd++ |
| 18:54 | semarie++ | |
| 18:55 | cait | yep |
| 18:55 | fredericd++ semarie++ | |
| 19:04 | tcohen | is there any work on having idfferent type of circulation rules for different items on a record? |
| 19:04 | cait | you can use different itemtypes |
| 19:04 | tcohen | i mean, not item type-based but configurable per item |
| 19:04 | cait | for each item on your record |
| 19:05 | like how? | |
| 19:05 | can you give an example? | |
| 19:05 | tcohen | you have three items |
| 19:05 | have a circulation rule for each of them | |
| 19:05 | cait | um |
| 19:05 | tcohen | but having all them listed as 'books' (itemtype) |
| 19:05 | rangi | @quote get 123 |
| 19:05 | cait | itemtypes |
| 19:05 | huginn | rangi: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011) |
| 19:05 | rangi | use itemtypes |
| 19:06 | cait | I think most people misjudge itemtypes |
| 19:06 | it does not have to be the type of the item | |
| 19:06 | rangi | and use the collectioncode for books |
| 19:06 | cait | you can put that into collections |
| 19:06 | rangi | what cait said |
| 19:06 | cait | what rangi says |
| 19:06 | hehe | |
| 19:06 | rangi | lol |
| 19:06 | cait | have itemtypes like: not for loan, 4 weeks, short loan, overnight only |
| 19:07 | jcamins_away | cait: bug 7284 |
| 19:07 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7284 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, NEW , Authority matching algorithm improvements |
| 19:07 | cait | jcamins_away: thx, reading now |
| 19:07 | jcamins_away | Thanks! |
| 19:09 | tcohen | rangi: collectioncode should be filled with things like 'book', 'magazine', etc |
| 19:09 | right? | |
| 19:09 | indradg joined #koha | |
| 19:09 | rangi | it can be filled with whatever you want |
| 19:10 | cait | what he says |
| 19:10 | rangi | the same with itemtype |
| 19:10 | its just that itemtype is used to control circ rules | |
| 19:10 | cait | you have to find out what you want to display at item level and choose the fields accordingly |
| 19:10 | and... listen to rangi | |
| 19:10 | tcohen | I have a record, that contains a DVD and a book |
| 19:10 | jcamins_away | listening_to_rangi++ |
| 19:11 | tcohen | at item level i'd like to have them listed as DVD and book accordingly |
| 19:11 | i've been using itemtypes to express that | |
| 19:11 | wizzyrea | I'd use ccode for that |
| 19:11 | we use itypes in exactly the way they are describing | |
| 19:12 | maximep | cait and rangi make a good support duo... completing each other phrases :p |
| 19:12 | sekjal | tcohen: do the two things have different circulation behaviours? |
| 19:12 | wizzyrea | itypes are more like "rule types" |
| 19:12 | sekjal | that is, to DVDs loan differently than books? |
| 19:12 | tcohen | hi wizzyrea |
| 19:12 | rangi | maximep: this is a FAQ almost, we should write it up |
| 19:12 | tcohen | sekjal: of course :-D |
| 19:12 | sekjal | if they loan differently, then they'll need different item types |
| 19:12 | wizzyrea | *nod* |
| 19:12 | tcohen | and different DVD's have different circ rules too!! |
| 19:12 | wizzyrea | you can make different itypes for each type of dvd that circs in a different way |
| 19:13 | cait | than perhaps you might want to consider having item types for kinds of circ rules |
| 19:13 | wizzyrea | example: DVD - New Release |
| 19:13 | = short loan period | |
| 19:13 | DVD = gets longer loan period | |
| 19:13 | cait | or |
| 19:14 | itemtype: short loan > collection dvd | |
| 19:14 | wizzyrea | the point is - itypes go with the circ rules |
| 19:14 | cait | and locations and collections do not |
| 19:14 | wizzyrea | ^^ |
| 19:14 | but all are arbitrary - you can name them however you want | |
| 19:15 | make senes? | |
| 19:15 | sense* | |
| 19:15 | tcohen | wizzyrea: i'm just in fear LOL |
| 19:15 | wizzyrea | also is to say: koha doesn't need any modification to work the way you want it to, your data does . ;) |
| 19:15 | tcohen | just got it wrong for a long time... |
| 19:15 | wizzyrea | all good, we have batch edit now ^.^ |
| 19:16 | tcohen | I'll move my item-types/kind of material to CCODE (or whatever I choose to use) |
| 19:17 | and let itemtypes to mean circulation rule applying | |
| 19:18 | thanks everyone | |
| 19:19 | Phlunk3 joined #koha | |
| 19:26 | wizzyrea | yw, gl |
| 19:32 | maximep | I can't find how to translate the text "NOTE: you can only choose one source" in the system preferences. Anyone did it ? |
| 19:32 | in 3.6 | |
| 19:33 | oleonard | maximep: Was that not picked up for translation by the translation tool? |
| 19:33 | maximep | tried msgid "enhanced_content.pref## <strong>NOTE" |
| 19:34 | can't find it in fr-FR at least | |
| 19:34 | didn't try doing a translate update | |
| 19:35 | cait | ah |
| 19:35 | it refers to covers | |
| 19:35 | it's not in a pref, somewhere above or beyond I think | |
| 19:36 | iirc | |
| 19:36 | you can only have one source for cover images | |
| 19:36 | check the enhanced content pref page | |
| 19:36 | maximep | I know what it is and what it does |
| 19:36 | just can't translate it | |
| 19:36 | cait | it's not in the po file? |
| 19:37 | maximep | nope |
| 19:37 | translate update didn't seem to catch it either | |
| 19:37 | cait | have yo utried only searching for NOTE? |
| 19:37 | oleonard | The file in question is intranet-tmpl/prog/fr-FR/modules/admin/preferences/enhanced_content.pref |
| 19:39 | cait | maximep: I see it, it's not translated for me either, perhaps because it's not part of a system preference |
| 19:39 | maximep | yeah, that's the problem |
| 19:39 | cait | maximep: little bug in the tool getting the strings for translation |
| 19:39 | maximep | ok |
| 19:39 | but can't do it manually either | |
| 19:39 | translate install doesn't catch it | |
| 19:39 | nengard joined #koha | |
| 19:40 | nengard | got a reservior question in training |
| 19:40 | cait | yep, the script extracting the strings is probably mssing it |
| 19:40 | nengard | it looks like the reservoir is getting filled with records imported using z39.50 |
| 19:40 | cait | yep |
| 19:40 | nengard | what are these? the search results of our z searches? |
| 19:40 | cait | it imports I think the first 10 of each search you do |
| 19:40 | yes | |
| 19:40 | there is a bug explaining that | |
| 19:40 | jcamins_away | nengard: yup. |
| 19:40 | maximep | ok. iirc there's a bug for translation tool problems, right? |
| 19:40 | cait | an old one |
| 19:40 | maximep: right | |
| 19:41 | jcamins_away | nengard: there's an open bug on that. |
| 19:41 | nengard | so the reservoir gets filled up with z search results? |
| 19:41 | cait | yes |
| 19:41 | nengard | okay do you know which it is ? :) I'm gonna search for it |
| 19:41 | cait | searching.. |
| 19:41 | wahanui | searching is not working |
| 19:41 | cait | http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3069 |
| 19:41 | huginn | 04Bug 3069: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Koha Z39.50 client process discussion |
| 19:41 | nengard | yeah |
| 19:41 | i found that one | |
| 19:43 | maximep | arg, can't find the bug |
| 19:48 | nengard | back to training |
| 19:48 | thanks al | |
| 19:48 | all | |
| 19:50 | cait | maximep: which bug? |
| 19:51 | i don't think there is one for your problem yet | |
| 19:51 | I would file a new bug | |
| 19:58 | rangi | bug 7072 |
| 19:58 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7072 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Use MARCAuthorityControlField008 to generate default 008 fields in AddAuthority |
| 19:58 | rangi | i dont know enuff MARC voodooo to know if thats correct |
| 19:59 | cait | hm |
| 19:59 | sounds good to me | |
| 19:59 | if it works like that? | |
| 20:00 | jcamins_away | Hmmm... is that a MARC21-only block? |
| 20:00 | cait | oh good point |
| 20:01 | jcamins_away | Because if it's not MARC21-only, I'd fail it until some sort of handling for UNIMARC defaults is provided. |
| 20:01 | * jcamins_away | isn't at home, so can't check. |
| 20:02 | * rangi | will leave it for the smart ppl to check |
| 20:02 | jcamins_away | Useful looking patch, though. |
| 20:03 | rangi: any chance you could add me to the CC list? | |
| 20:03 | rangi | will do |
| 20:03 | jcamins_away | Thanks. |
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| 20:14 | JesseM | @wunder 06614 |
| 20:14 | huginn | JesseM: The current temperature in Brewer Stratford Marina, Stratford, Connecticut is 8.9°C (3:14 PM EST on December 01, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 24%. Dew Point: -11.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020.2 hPa (Steady). |
| 20:22 | oleonard | Ha, whatever I just did to the js on basket.pl, now it wants to automatically delete the order on reload :P |
| 20:23 | cait | uh |
| 20:23 | are you trying to fix the minus? | |
| 20:23 | or only all the js errors? | |
| 20:24 | oleonard | Actually Bug 7206, but I was trying a js menu |
| 20:24 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7206 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , delete links in basket could use design work |
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| 20:34 | oleonard | Hey, didn't you hear #koha tell you guys to go play outside for a change? |
| 20:34 | cait | in the darkness? |
| 20:37 | jcamins_away | #koha doesn't care the time, apparently. |
| 20:41 | gmcharlt | #koha is ALL the time |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time |
| 20:41 | huginn | wizzyrea: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). |
| 20:41 | wizzyrea | humbug. |
| 20:42 | @quote get 23 | |
| 20:42 | huginn | wizzyrea: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg huginn register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 04:25 PM, August 06, 2009) |
| 21:01 | chris_n | @quote add gmcharlt: #koha is ALL the time |
| 21:01 | huginn | chris_n: The operation succeeded. Quote #168 added. |
| 21:01 | wahanui | i already had it that way, chris_n. |
| 21:01 | chris_n | right wahanui, right |
| 21:02 | your always on top of it | |
| 21:02 | jcamins_away | @quote get 167 |
| 21:02 | huginn | jcamins_away: Quote #167: "<sekjal> yes, major project. very important" (added by chris_n at 07:58 PM, November 18, 2011) |
| 21:02 | chris_n | arn't they all :) |
| 21:02 | jcamins_away | They are indeed. |
| 21:13 | cait | night all |
| 21:13 | cait left #koha | |
| 21:27 | wizzyrea | I guess there's no bug for what happens when you delete a bib that still has items with reserves on them |
| 21:28 | delete a bib + items | |
| 21:28 | does this ring a bell for anybody? | |
| 21:28 | oleonard | It rings a vague indistinct bell |
| 21:29 | wizzyrea | we're getting lots of holds with no biblionumber left over when items are deleted |
| 21:32 | oleonard | I shall not be able to assist you in this quest wizzyrea, for I must depart. |
| 21:32 | wizzyrea | GOOD BYE, oleonard |
| 21:32 | oleonard | Farewell #koha, until we meet again. |
| 21:32 | wizzyrea | :) |
| 21:32 | * oleonard | tried to draw it out this time |
| 21:32 | * wizzyrea | giggles |
| 21:32 | applauds | |
| 21:37 | sekjal | okay, that patch is ready |
| 21:37 | anyone feel like doing so a very long circulation-based test plan? bug 6151 | |
| 21:37 | huginn | 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6151 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in |
| 21:40 | wizzyrea | oh zowie |
| 21:40 | huginn | New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6151] IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in <http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6151> |
| 21:45 | libsysguy | anybody on that is checking out my hourly branch? |
| 21:45 | you should be aware of a rebase error | |
| 21:48 | liw | eythian, hi, are you awake? |
| 21:48 | eythian | liw: I am |
| 21:48 | liw | eythian, any progress on getting the perl cpan packages related to koha that are still under my name in Debian adopted? |
| 21:50 | eythian | Not so much yet. Too much travel, too much work :) keep nagging though, it'll happen. Maybe today even, if things don't end up being too busy. |
| 21:50 | liw | whom do you need to nag? |
| 21:53 | eythian | you need to keep nagging me :) that said, I think they are all reownered in the Perl staging area. I'll have to see if any need updates. |
| 21:54 | liw | ah, sorry, misunderstood the nagging sentence |
| 21:54 | none seem to need updates, but I think I'd like to see adoption uploads anyway, so they get removed from my list of packages | |
| 21:55 | eythian | OK |
| 21:55 | I'll do that then, when I work out their new system | |
| 21:55 | sounds like good friday afternoon work | |
| 21:55 | liw | cool. thanks! |
| 21:55 | eythian | in between security package updates and migrations :) |
| 21:55 | liw | if I give a debian packaging tutorial at kohacon, you can get lots of helpers with the packages :) |
| 21:56 | well, if someone gives, but I'm happy to | |
| 21:56 | indeed, you should give a talk about the koha packages | |
| 21:56 | eythian | yeah. I need to sit down in a pub with mtj at some point and teach him how they all work |
| 21:56 | I probably should | |
| 21:57 | liw | in fact, there should possibly be one talk for people interested in using the packages, and a separate workshop for people interested in improving the packages |
| 21:57 | but that's for next year, this is thursday evening and it's bedtime -- night! :) | |
| 21:57 | eythian | heh yeah :) |
| 21:57 | catch you later | |
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| 23:48 | jcamins_away | @later tell sekjal Two bugs for QA- 6997 and 7216. Both are pretty simple. |
| 23:48 | huginn | jcamins_away: The operation succeeded. |
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